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Speaker 1: Welcome to Behind the Police, a production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Hello everyone, I'm Robert Evans, host of Behind the Bastards,

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Speaker 1: which is normally a show about the worst people in

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Speaker 1: all of history, and I guess it's still is. But

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Speaker 1: but recent world events, UM have compelled us to create

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Speaker 1: a special mini series, Behind the Police, where we are

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Speaker 1: going to be giving a detailed history of American policing,

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Speaker 1: all the good, the bad, and mostly mostly the bad

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Speaker 1: and the ugly. It's it's mostly bad, uh and and

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Speaker 1: mostly ugly. Um and uh. In order to help me

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Speaker 1: give this story and tell it to the world, my

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Speaker 1: guest today uh and for the next couple of weeks

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Speaker 1: UH is Jason Petty, better known as Propaganda Jason. You

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Speaker 1: are a hip hop artist, UM and a podcast host. UM.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, how are you doing? Man? Hey man? You know,

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Speaker 1: West West and the world don't fire. But NASCAR stopped

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Speaker 1: flying Confederate flags. So that's a thing, you know what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying. Yeah, it's in a weird moment right now.

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Speaker 1: I just like like snag a picture of and just

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Speaker 1: and like send it to yourself in two thousand eighteen

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Speaker 1: and go what stupid director wrote this storyline? You know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's wild, and like the wildest thing about it

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Speaker 1: is that I think we were all at this point

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Speaker 1: of getting like just completely exhausted by like this constant

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Speaker 1: parade of like bad news and like political malfeasance and

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Speaker 1: like horrible things being done by people in power, and

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Speaker 1: nobody was able to get on the same page about

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Speaker 1: really anything. Um. And then all of a sudden, you know, um,

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Speaker 1: after the Minneapolis police murdered George Floyd in that video

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Speaker 1: came out for like the first time in a long time,

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Speaker 1: almost everyone, like most people got broadly onto the same page. Like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we weren't even on the same page about

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Speaker 1: a virus. Like it's like something something that I will

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Speaker 1: give no ships about what political stance you are gonna

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Speaker 1: kill you either way. We couldn't even agree on that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But then I was like we could agree that black

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Speaker 1: lives matter for real. That's what we finally agree it on. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's good, broadly good. Like I'm kind of I'm recording

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Speaker 1: this from outside of the what will surely probably not

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Speaker 1: exist by the time this airs, but was briefly the

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Speaker 1: the the Seattle the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone. I went

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Speaker 1: to check that out for a couple of days. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's been wild. I wish you could talk to me

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Speaker 1: a little more about like there's got to be some

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Speaker 1: sort of version of behind the bastards that's that is

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Speaker 1: the Northwest. Yeah, it's like it's definitely a tale of

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Speaker 1: two cities up there. Yeah. Yeah, I've been getting tear

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Speaker 1: gas in Portland for days, and they were in Seattle too,

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Speaker 1: but then they succeeded in getting their police to like

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Speaker 1: pull out of a precinct um, which is wild, and

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Speaker 1: now the cops are back, so it didn't last. But like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you've been on the ground in Los Angeles some

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Speaker 1: of the protests, if I'm not mistaken, Yeah, how have

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Speaker 1: you felt about that? Dude? It's like obviously the sheer

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Speaker 1: volume I mean because I was here for the you know,

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Speaker 1: for the l A riots, you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: So the sheer volume of people, the amount of of

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Speaker 1: um sustained energy has been like maybe something's different, you

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Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. Um, the amount of diversity in

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Speaker 1: the streets has been like yo, maybe I guess after

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Speaker 1: having to like take it to the streets since the

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Speaker 1: the day after Trump was elected. You know what, I'm

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Speaker 1: saying from the woman's marts all the way to the

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Speaker 1: school shootings, to the to the climate, to the like

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Speaker 1: there's no to the the damn um uh Muslim band.

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Speaker 1: It's just like at some point we were just like, okay,

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Speaker 1: enough is a day, m enough um. But I like

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Speaker 1: to be fully transparent. I think I echo like the

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Speaker 1: sounds of of of people who've been in like justice

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Speaker 1: work for a while, where like your arms are still

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Speaker 1: kind of folded on the side, like Okay, are you

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Speaker 1: gonna be here next week? Yeah? You know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: It's like you like this song, or are you gonna

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Speaker 1: stay for the concert? Like this is a long concert,

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Speaker 1: you feel me? Yeah, Yeah, it's a long And I

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Speaker 1: guess that's kind of why we're doing And yeah, after

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Speaker 1: like two weeks almost in the streets reporting on that,

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Speaker 1: I kind of felt like the thing to do was

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Speaker 1: to try to um because I guess it's I think

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Speaker 1: it's wrong to say that we're all on the same page.

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Speaker 1: We're all reading the same book, and the book is titled, Uh,

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Speaker 1: the police are murdering a whole ton of black people, um,

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Speaker 1: and also doing a bunch of other messed up stuff.

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Speaker 1: And it feels like for a lot of folks, the

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Speaker 1: first time they opened that book was because they they

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Speaker 1: went out to a protest and they got tear guests,

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Speaker 1: and sudden we were like confronted by the violence of

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Speaker 1: American policing. So I think now is a good time

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Speaker 1: to go into a really deep history of American policing

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Speaker 1: and let people know like where all this came from,

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Speaker 1: because this didn't Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's so there's I

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Speaker 1: and I and I know what I love about your show.

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Speaker 1: It is I think why it reigned so true with me.

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Speaker 1: It was like it's the stuff that like we we

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Speaker 1: might be looking at the same dumpster fire, but I'm

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Speaker 1: looking at it with a hundred years of history to know,

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Speaker 1: like I actually know what I'm looking at, you know

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying. And like y'all think I'm making this

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Speaker 1: ship up, Like I'm not, Like I swear to you,

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Speaker 1: I'm not making this up. Like just learn more and

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Speaker 1: you'll stare at this dumpster fire like I am. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so let's stare at the dumpster fire. Um and and

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Speaker 1: and really just yeah, I'll get into the story. Um.

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Speaker 1: As a side note, your camera is phenomenal, like what's

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Speaker 1: up with this depth of feel on your That's great, man,

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Speaker 1: it's like blurry in the back. Look at this. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's so people don't see all of my all of

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Speaker 1: my illegal artwork that's behind me. Yeah yeah, yeah, very erotic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah you see my bed here, and by magic I

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Speaker 1: mean snoring and my daughter kicking me and my life

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Speaker 1: in our roofs anyway, yeah yeah yeah, so, um yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess let's get into it. So obviously, the idea

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Speaker 1: of law, of their being laws that people could break

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Speaker 1: and be punished, that's existed for a while. We all

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Speaker 1: remember hearing about hammer Abi's code and stuff like back

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Speaker 1: in back in school. Um, but throughout history a surprising

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Speaker 1: amount of society is probably most of them have lacked

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Speaker 1: anything that we would recognize as like a police force

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Speaker 1: and like an organized and kind of a modern sense

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Speaker 1: of the word. Like a lot of times you'd have

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Speaker 1: like the you know, you'd have a military that would

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Speaker 1: enforce some rules for like the king or whoever, but

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Speaker 1: you didn't have like beat cops rolling around, you know,

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Speaker 1: scanning neighborhoods. Now, the ancient egyp has had something that

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Speaker 1: might be seen as kind of a predecessor to the police.

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Speaker 1: It was a small, dedicated force regarding the tombs of

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Speaker 1: the wealthy as well as their businesses. Um, which will

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Speaker 1: be something of a pattern throughout the episode. Aca convince everything.

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Speaker 1: Let's just gonna do that's the pattern anyway going, including

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Speaker 1: policing for the police. You can't they can't be winners. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not all writing. Yes. Um. So, some ancient Greek

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Speaker 1: city states, including Athens, had what you might call a

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Speaker 1: proto police force um as well. And in Athens this

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Speaker 1: force was kind of geared towards protecting markets and keeping

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Speaker 1: an eye on untrustworthy foreigners. So it's a little bit like,

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Speaker 1: you know, a mix between normal police and ice. Um. Now,

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Speaker 1: this was not considered to be an honorable job, as

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Speaker 1: historian P. K. Bailey noted in the ninety lecture quote,

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Speaker 1: even in the enlightened democracy of Athens in the fifth

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Speaker 1: century BC, no free citizen was prepared to serve in

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Speaker 1: that capacity, and such police force as there was, consisted

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Speaker 1: of foreigners with the status of slaves who were the

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Speaker 1: property of the states in Greece. Generally, very few of

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Speaker 1: the states seemed to have made any provision at all

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Speaker 1: so far as is known for the ordinary policing of

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Speaker 1: their cities, though the state of Sparta certainly had a

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Speaker 1: very efficient system of secret police. This is really interesting

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Speaker 1: to me, especially because of what comes next. So Sparta

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Speaker 1: really seems to be like some of the first police

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Speaker 1: that are very similar. You can draw a direct line

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Speaker 1: from the Spartan secret police to the origins of American policing,

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Speaker 1: which we're gonna we're gonna get to it a little bit,

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Speaker 1: because the secret police of Sparta existed for one purpose

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Speaker 1: and one purpose only, and it was to clamp down

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Speaker 1: on any hint of rebellion from the vast majority of

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Speaker 1: the nation's populace. See only about one in seven. Spartans

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Speaker 1: were like the guys from three hundred, right that everybody knows,

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Speaker 1: Like that with the abs and the and the spears.

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Speaker 1: The vast majority of the population were helots. They were slaves. Basically,

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Speaker 1: they were they were slaves. They were just straight up slaves.

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Speaker 1: Like it was a slave empire. Sparta was. The vast

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Speaker 1: majority of people in the country were slaves, and the

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Speaker 1: Spartan like leadership and the Spartan like citizens spent all

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Speaker 1: of their time terrified of slave rebellions. That's why the

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Speaker 1: Spartan army didn't actually leave the country all that often

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Speaker 1: because like they get up risen. Yeah. So they had

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Speaker 1: all these slaves and they had to like clamp down

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Speaker 1: on them, and they established a secret policing force called

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Speaker 1: the Crypteia, which was made up of young men who

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Speaker 1: had just finished the basics of their military terry training.

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Speaker 1: So once a year, Sparta would elect a council of

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Speaker 1: five e force or leaders, and as part of a ritual,

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Speaker 1: these forms would begin their term by declaring war on

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Speaker 1: the Helot population. They did this every year, like every year,

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Speaker 1: we declare war on our slaves. So the Spartans had crips,

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Speaker 1: is what you're telling me. They did. They did Yeah again, Cryptiae,

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Speaker 1: the crypt So they had crips. So that studio was

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Speaker 1: the boys in Blue, I'm telling you, man, like this

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Speaker 1: stuff has been going on for a long time. The

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Speaker 1: other boys in blue, and it was trying to keep

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Speaker 1: the slaves. They were trying to keep the slaves from rebelding. Everybody,

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Speaker 1: tuck that back in, Tuck that away for a second.

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Speaker 1: Keep that in your head, keep that in your head.

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Speaker 1: So every year these elected leaders, you know, formally declare

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Speaker 1: war on the Helots, and it's something of like a

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Speaker 1: ritual like to and this ritual is based around like

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Speaker 1: keeping them from rebelling. So the Cryptania would be sent

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Speaker 1: out to wander barefoot, armed with knives into the countryside,

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Speaker 1: and they would seek out the strongest and the smartest

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Speaker 1: of the Helots their slaves, and they would murder them

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Speaker 1: in the night, calling the population of any potential leaders

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Speaker 1: that like, every year we go out, we find the

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Speaker 1: smart ones and we kill them so that they can't

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Speaker 1: rise up against us. How does he fishing telling me

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Speaker 1: this is the pinnacle Western civilization? You're trying to be okay,

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Speaker 1: got it? It does make it kind of appropriate when

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Speaker 1: you could a lot of American police officers were like

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Speaker 1: spartan helmet patches. Now it's like, okay, little on the

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Speaker 1: nose fellas. Yeah. Now I should note here that there's

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Speaker 1: actually there is quite a lot of historical debate about

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Speaker 1: the Cryptia. Some scholars agree with defining them as a

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Speaker 1: secret police as a force to keep the Helots in

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Speaker 1: line through regular murder. Victor Davis Hansen, who's a pretty

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Speaker 1: prominent like pop historian, compares them to the Gestapo, but

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Speaker 1: other historians will argue that the Cryptia were less of

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Speaker 1: like a policing force and more of a guerrilla military

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Speaker 1: unit and auxiliary to the regular Spartan military. That's sort

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Speaker 1: of um also acted as kind of an advanced training

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Speaker 1: program designed to blood new warriors by like giving them

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Speaker 1: easy kills to help them get over any hesitation they

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Speaker 1: might have to do violence. And I don't think these

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Speaker 1: two views are necessarily in conflict. The Cryptaia seemed to

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Speaker 1: have been like a dedicated guerilla armyment to suppress descent

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Speaker 1: against the ruling class by doing violence to the impoverished

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Speaker 1: majority who produced all of Sparta's value. In this they

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Speaker 1: fulfilled a role not very different from a lot of

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Speaker 1: police forces in Western history. He can't make this stuff up.

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Speaker 1: You can't. We can't make this pretty. I may myself today.

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Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I'm gonna do a longer meditation,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna do some yoga. I am going to prepare

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Speaker 1: myself for the amount of things you've ben to tail

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Speaker 1: me right now. And none of it were because I

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Speaker 1: still picked a fight with my wife today. It was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, babe, it's we're about to talk about the

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Speaker 1: ancient police. Okay, so I'm sorry, but and for the record,

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Speaker 1: fuck the ancient police, like you know what ancient n

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Speaker 1: w A like you feel me. The Roman Republic didn't

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Speaker 1: have any kind of like formal national police force for

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Speaker 1: most of its history. In Rome, which is like the

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Speaker 1: biggest city in the ancient world, for most of you know,

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Speaker 1: the time that it was like kind of the center

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Speaker 1: of the world, lacked anything that we would describe as

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Speaker 1: like police. As Rome grew to become the largest city

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Speaker 1: and you know it's era, crime became an increasing problem.

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Speaker 1: The wealthy were able to use vast networks of clients.

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Speaker 1: Romans had this weird system where by like, if you

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Speaker 1: were rich, you gave money to a bunch of people

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Speaker 1: who had less, and they all had to like kind

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Speaker 1: of have your back, Like everybody had a posse and

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Speaker 1: ancient that's the way to look at like every yeah,

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Speaker 1: everybody had like a big squad um. And so the

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Speaker 1: wealthy were able to use these big squads to like,

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Speaker 1: you know, defend themselves from aggression and murder their political enemies,

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Speaker 1: protect them in the streets and stuff. Um. Meanwhile, organized

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Speaker 1: criminals and gangs did basically the same thing, and there

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Speaker 1: wasn't really a big difference between like the rich and

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Speaker 1: their squads and like criminal gangs that were kind of

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Speaker 1: the same thing. Um. Now, victims of crimes had to

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Speaker 1: either get revenged themselves or whip up a mob of

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Speaker 1: their fellow citizens to help them in this task. There

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Speaker 1: was a lot of whipping up of mobs in ancient Rome. Um, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: why do I I could just it just makes it

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Speaker 1: just it just tracks like that just tracks so well.

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Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, we've always been the same species. We

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Speaker 1: say we are the same. But one of the best

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Speaker 1: my history professor in college, one of the best thing

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Speaker 1: he said to me was like, if you want to

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Speaker 1: know what happened in history, thing about what you would do? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's just us, then what would you do? It's history

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Speaker 1: is us them? Yeah, And in in ancient Rome, like

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Speaker 1: the kind of graffiti networks they had really did act

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Speaker 1: a lot like social media does, to the extent that

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Speaker 1: like kind of famous and powerful people would use like

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Speaker 1: graffiti to get like shiploads, like to to kind of

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Speaker 1: do the same thing that like people who get piste

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Speaker 1: off online and have a following can do, like like

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Speaker 1: but with a literal mob as opposed to I'm literally

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Speaker 1: cancel you ancient style. Yeah, I'm gonna cancel you by

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Speaker 1: having four hundred dudes stab you repeatedly. We're talking about

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Speaker 1: the government. I mean it was it was just kind

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Speaker 1: of everyone. Yeah. Uh. Seneca, a Roman philosopher in this period,

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Speaker 1: described street life in Rome this way. Some things will

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Speaker 1: be thrown at you, some will hit you, um, which

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Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, yeah, Rome's first emperor or Augustus, when

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Speaker 1: like the whole republic thing ended, he established what's generally

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Speaker 1: recognized as the city's first police force, and it would

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Speaker 1: be fairer to describe them as like a fire department

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Speaker 1: that also did some policing. Um. They were called the

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Speaker 1: vigils um, and they stood watch at night and mainly

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Speaker 1: kind of looked out for fires and attempted to stop

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Speaker 1: the city from burning down because that was like a

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Speaker 1: huge problem in Rome. And the vigils were armed though,

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Speaker 1: and they were drilled in a similar way to soldiers.

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Speaker 1: You know. They used artillery to shoot dampening materials onto fires.

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Speaker 1: But they also had the right to enforce laws and

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Speaker 1: had the right to enter private homes to capture thieves,

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Speaker 1: returned runaway slaves, and generally insure order UM, so kind

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Speaker 1: of like a fire department mixed with the police force. UM.

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Speaker 1: And this system didn't really spread widely throughout the Roman Empire,

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Speaker 1: but broadly similar systems were established in a number of

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Speaker 1: European cities intermittently over the centuries. The night watchman was

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Speaker 1: kind of the most common way that this would this

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Speaker 1: would wind up happening. And these were just, you know,

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Speaker 1: in most of Europe, members of the community who like

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Speaker 1: would rotate through the job of defending their town or

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Speaker 1: city from external threats like invaders and internal threats like fire.

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Speaker 1: Their primary job was to give alarm to kind of

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Speaker 1: get like everybody together so that they could deal with

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Speaker 1: whatever problem, you know, happened in the night. And most

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Speaker 1: of what we today would recognize as law enforcement was

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Speaker 1: handled by citizens watching over their own communities. The English

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Speaker 1: called this kin police, as it was generally seen as

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Speaker 1: the responsibility of individual families to watch out foreign police

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Speaker 1: their family members. Right. You know, there's not nothing centralized

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Speaker 1: really in a lot of this period, you know, the

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Speaker 1: Middle Ages and ship whatever you wanna call it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so starting yeah, yeah, yeah, like watch your people. Yeah, hey, man,

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Speaker 1: get your boy, get your boy. Whose man's Is this

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying? Yeah, I love it. Yeah it makes sense, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it kind of does. Yeah. So, starting in the Middle Ages,

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Speaker 1: like kind of the Late Middle Ages, English communities began

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Speaker 1: to develop something called the frank pledge system. Now, this

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Speaker 1: was a structure by which small groups of men could

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Speaker 1: enforce the law in communities, and it was based around

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Speaker 1: tin man groups called tithings, which were themselves elves grouped

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Speaker 1: into hundreds, and then shires, which were similar to modern counties.

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Speaker 1: So if you wondering where like the lord of the rings,

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Speaker 1: why they called the shire. That was like an old

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Speaker 1: English word for a county. Yeah. Now the person who

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Speaker 1: was in charge, yeah, yeah, that's there. So the person

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Speaker 1: who was in charge of all of the different tithings,

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Speaker 1: those tin man groups in a shire was called the

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Speaker 1: shire reeve. And that's where the word sheriff comes from.

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Speaker 1: Is like the head of this like shire wild kind

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Speaker 1: of community protection group, the shire reef, the shaff, and

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Speaker 1: that's why the sheriff's run the county exactly exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So that's where that comes back to. So yeah, it

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Speaker 1: makes sense. Yeah, and so far we're like, this isn't

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Speaker 1: something you can really like obviously, like the Spartan police

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Speaker 1: is terrible, but like this makes sense, Like, yeah, you

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Speaker 1: take care of your community, like everybody kind of un

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Speaker 1: rotates through it. Share. Yeah, hard to be angry at it.

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Speaker 1: Individuals within tithings were expected to apprehend criminals and bring

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Speaker 1: them to court, and shire Reeves oversaw their work. When

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Speaker 1: Europeans began, you know, genociding and conquer ring North America,

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Speaker 1: they brought variants of this system and other kind of

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Speaker 1: similar systems developed in other parts of Europe with them.

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Speaker 1: Policing in you know, the colonies which you know, we're

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Speaker 1: broadly referring to like mainly North America here, Like I'm

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Speaker 1: not really I don't have the time to like talk

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Speaker 1: about like what went on in South America, Central America.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about like kind of the particularly the English

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Speaker 1: speaking colonies that started on the East coast. Um Policing

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Speaker 1: in those colonies fell into two broad categories, known to

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Speaker 1: historians as the Watch and the Big Stick. And I'm

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Speaker 1: going to quote next from a paper on the history

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Speaker 1: of US policing by Dr Gary Potter of Eastern Kentucky University. Quote.

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Speaker 1: The Watch system was composed of community volunteers whose primary

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Speaker 1: duty was to warn of impending danger. Boston created a

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Speaker 1: night watch in sixteen thirty six New York and sixteen

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Speaker 1: fifty eight in Philadelphia, and seventeen hundred. The night watch

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Speaker 1: was not a particularly effective crime control device. Watchman often

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Speaker 1: slept or drank on duty. Well, the watch was theoretically voluntary,

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Speaker 1: many volunteers were simply attempting to evade military service, were

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Speaker 1: cons grips, forced into service by their talent. We're performing

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Speaker 1: watch duties as a form of punishment. And I have

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Speaker 1: to say again, last night, I was kind of hanging

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Speaker 1: out in the Autonomous Zone and I volunteered to do

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Speaker 1: a shift on the night watch, and I was definitely drinking.

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Speaker 1: You know. We we look in in the hood, you

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Speaker 1: know again, like the part we build it's called hood politics.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things is like I just feel like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: no matter how unique are experiences, like you said, we're

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Speaker 1: kind of we're still all the same species. Right. So

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Speaker 1: when we talk about like, um neighborhood pigeons, right, I

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Speaker 1: mean there's there's there's a there's a misogynistic version of that,

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Speaker 1: and then there's the other part that we would call

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Speaker 1: the pigeon stool, which is like the guy who's supposed

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Speaker 1: to sit at the edge of the street to make

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Speaker 1: sure to see if the cops are coming. Right, So

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Speaker 1: that's your pigeon stool, right, and he's drunk all the time.

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Speaker 1: It's drunk, like he falling asleep, and it's just so.

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Speaker 1: And the hope is to do that because it's the

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Speaker 1: easiest because it's odds are nobody coming, you know, So

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Speaker 1: you could just sit over there and just kind of

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Speaker 1: like he's trying to holler girls like, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: just just on the one off chance that the police

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Speaker 1: actually come around. I mean, that's your life. But most

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Speaker 1: of the time that's not gonna happen. Yeah, let's just

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Speaker 1: sit there and drink and smoke. Yeah, keep an eye

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Speaker 1: on things, but not all that. Make sure you just

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Speaker 1: make sure mama not coming, you know. So these kind

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Speaker 1: of watch systems that started, you know, hitting you know,

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Speaker 1: the colonized Northeast were more similar to the pseudo police

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Speaker 1: system that you saw in ancient Athens than anything else.

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Speaker 1: Um and you know, kind of the the other side

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Speaker 1: of this was the big stick system. And this was

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Speaker 1: the first real example of for profit policing. We're not

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Speaker 1: gonna go into tremendous de tale about it in this episode.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk about it a lot or in

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Speaker 1: our next episode, but I'm gonna give an overview here.

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Speaker 1: So in a you know, we're when we're talking about

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Speaker 1: the colonies, we're talking about a very unregulated market for

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Speaker 1: law enforcement in a lot of ways. You know, there's

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Speaker 1: not an organized, centralized police, but there are merchants who

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Speaker 1: have a lot of property, and those merchants want to

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Speaker 1: make sure their property doesn't get stolen um, either when

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Speaker 1: it's in transit or when it's in a shop. And

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Speaker 1: so you know, they have they have constables in these towns,

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Speaker 1: and constables are either appointed, um kind of in like

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Speaker 1: a rotating basis, so like you do your your brief

402
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Speaker 1: period of time as constable, or you're elected to be constable.

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Speaker 1: It was kind of they did it a couple of

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Speaker 1: different ways, um. And as a general rule, because constables

405
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Speaker 1: weren't really paid um, like, they had to develop services

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Speaker 1: that they would sort of sell to people in order

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Speaker 1: to make the job worthwhile. So sometimes they acted acted

408
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Speaker 1: as land surveyors. They would verify the accuracy of scales,

409
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Speaker 1: but they would also get paid directly by the merchants

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Speaker 1: they were protecting, And so as a general rule, these

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Speaker 1: constables were really just hired muscle for the business leaders

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Speaker 1: in these communities. Um, and they would be paid by

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Speaker 1: the people. Um. You know, they weren't being paid by

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Speaker 1: the state to enforce justice. They were being paid by

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Speaker 1: people with money to enforce debts, to punish theft, and

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Speaker 1: to even intimidate rival business owners. Right like that, yeas

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Speaker 1: they're good. They're hired yeah um and obviously, as you

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Speaker 1: caught by calling them hired goons, this was not seen

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Speaker 1: as an honorable job. People don't really want to be

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Speaker 1: a constable, right like. There was no blue lives like

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Speaker 1: back the yeah so. Historian Gary Potter notes that constables

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Speaker 1: and night watch officers quote didn't want to wear badges

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Speaker 1: because these guys had bad reputations to begin with, and

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Speaker 1: they didn't want to be identified as people that other

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Speaker 1: people didn't like. There was a strong resistance with early

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00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,639
Speaker 1: law enforcement of being identified as law enforcement because nobody

427
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 1: liked you. Now, some towns in colonial North America made

428
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 1: service in the watch compulsory. Rich people tended to pay

429
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 1: were people to take their shifts for them, and Potter

430
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 1: notes that these substitutes were usually quote a criminal or

431
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:13,640
Speaker 1: a community thug. Yeah yeahs again it all tracks yeah

432
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 1: yeah yeah. In eighteen nine, back over in England, Sir

433
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 1: Robert Peel, who is the Home Secretary of England, introduced

434
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 1: the Bill for Improving the Police in and in and

435
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 1: Near the Metropolis. Now. The goal of this was to

436
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:29,679
Speaker 1: take the air set system of watchmen and the like

437
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 1: and formalize them into a real police force, and the

438
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 1: London Metropolitan Police are generally recognized to be the very

439
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 1: first modern police department in history. Um And Peel he's

440
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 1: an interesting guy. He felt that the job of police

441
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 1: should be to prevent crime rather than to punish it,

442
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 1: because that's kind of what you know, all these constables

443
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:48,959
Speaker 1: something got stolen, you like you'd get paid to go

444
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: like funk up the person who stole it, right, But

445
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 1: like they weren't really preventing crimes. So Peele was like,

446
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 1: what if we tried to stop crimes? Um And he

447
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 1: felt the best way to achieve that goal was with

448
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 1: regular visible patrols of off officers from a formal centralized

449
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 1: apartment with uniforms and ranks and a clear physical headquarters,

450
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,399
Speaker 1: so that people like new those aren't just dudes, like

451
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 1: those are the police and they're like a part of

452
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: the state. Now. Peel felt that it was critical that

453
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 1: only calm, even tempered citizens should be police officers. He

454
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 1: felt they need again yeah what a thought. Yeah, yeah,

455
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 1: that one didn't really spread. Um. I don't know much

456
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: about the London police, but it didn't make it across

457
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,639
Speaker 1: the pod. It just there's there's a few things that

458
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 1: they threw out the bay with the bathwater in this situation.

459
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: I get it, you don't want to have a you

460
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 1: don't want to have a king anymore, you know, you know,

461
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 1: like the t I get it, But like maybe having

462
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 1: a calm police voice wasn't a bad idea. Took part

463
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 1: of the magna carta. He was like, Yo, this that

464
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 1: this kind of seems like a good idea. Maybe Yah

465
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,680
Speaker 1: should have taken that one too. Yeah, And I did

466
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 1: recently watch like again, the London police have done a

467
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 1: lot of messed up stuff too, even with some of

468
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:56,919
Speaker 1: the recent protests. But I did watch that when they

469
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: threw the statue of that slaveholder into the bay in Bristol,

470
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: um into the channel. Um, I watched an interview with

471
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 1: like the local constable or whatever. He was like the

472
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,159
Speaker 1: local police chief type guy in Bristol, because he was

473
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,399
Speaker 1: being asked by the news like why he didn't stop it,

474
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: and his answer was basically like, well, you know, I'm

475
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 1: a cop, so obviously I'm not okay with property destruction.

476
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 1: But we had a choice to, like, like, our choice

477
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 1: was to either let it happen or like basically funk

478
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: up people to protect the statue. And I felt like

479
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: that would be bad for community trusting the police, reasonable attitude,

480
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: taking on your feet, man, like you feel me, like yeah,

481
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: and he's like, what do I care about the statue?

482
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: So um yeah. Peel had some other ideas too. Again,

483
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 1: he felt that like police needed uniforms with badges that

484
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 1: had visible display numbers. So he was the idea of,

485
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 1: like police should have badge numbers that you can identify.

486
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 1: If you're encounter a police officer, you can identify them.

487
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 1: He also felt that police should not carry firearms, and

488
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,959
Speaker 1: again that's like still kind of broadly applied in a

489
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 1: lot of you know, English policing. Now, some of Peel's

490
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: ideas quickly spread. Obviously not the thing well we'll talk

491
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 1: about that again. Apart two American police didn't initially have guns. Um.

492
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 1: In eighteen thirty eight, though, the city of Boston became

493
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: the first US city to establish a modern police force. Now,

494
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 1: the creation of the Boston Police, which we'll talk about

495
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: a bit more in our next episode, was driven by

496
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 1: largely a capitalist necessity to protect the property of big business.

497
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 1: Boston merchants had been paying constables and the like to

498
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: protect their goods for years, and they pushed for the

499
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: establishment of a formal police force in order to shift

500
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 1: the burden of paying for this onto the public, arguing

501
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 1: that such a force would be for the collective good.

502
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,400
Speaker 1: So now we the merchants still get our stuff protected,

503
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 1: but we don't have to pay every or we you know,

504
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:40,680
Speaker 1: we pay a little bit, but we pay a lot

505
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: less because everybody is paying for these guys to protect

506
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:48,640
Speaker 1: our stuff. Um. Yeah, So so that's interesting. Um. Now

507
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 1: we're we'll return to these Northern police and again our

508
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,159
Speaker 1: second episode is going to cover more that because you know,

509
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: while the Boston Police at the first modern department in history,

510
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 1: the roots of many US police departments go back much further.

511
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of folks have heard, you know,

512
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: through social media or whatever. In the last couple of

513
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: weeks as we've gone through this this uprising, UM the

514
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: idea that American police started out with slave patrols, UM,

515
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 1: and that's what we're going to talk about now, And

516
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: that's partly accurate. It's not fair to say that all

517
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: US police started a slave patrols because obviously in the

518
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 1: North they didn't have you know, slave patrols. Really they had, um.

519
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: You know, it was a different route in the North.

520
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: But in the American South, policing absolutely did grow out

521
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 1: of slave patrols. UM. And it you know, it came out.

522
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 1: And you can draw a line between the two because

523
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: obviously the first police departments in the North come out

524
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,719
Speaker 1: of a desire from you know, people with money and

525
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: property and shops to protect their property. And in the

526
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 1: American South, policing also grew out of a desire for

527
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: people with money to protect their property, but that property

528
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 1: was enslave human human beings. Yeah, yeah, you know, who

529
00:27:52,760 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: doesn't establish slave patrols. Well, that's not I don't know, man,

530
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 1: I think you never know, bro, You never know, you

531
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: never know, man, Yeah, you know who historically might have

532
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 1: tried to establish police departments to protect this is I'm

533
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: not doing great with this. Hey you know who uh

534
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: that I got no neither, man, I'm sorry, we're going

535
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 1: to roll ads now, you can just simply go funk

536
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:28,880
Speaker 1: the police. It's an odd break there, it is. There

537
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: we go, we are back. Uh yeah, so we're we're

538
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: we're getting into we're talking slave patrols. Now, we're talking

539
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 1: slave patrols. Yes. So the first slave patrol was created

540
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: in the Carolina colonies in seventeen o four and twenty

541
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 1: six years before Boston got its police force. And this

542
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: is again we're not we're not even North or South

543
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: Carolina yet. They hadn't gotten that far, but they knew

544
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: they wanted Carolina's Yeah, we were clear on that, and

545
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: they were clear that they wanted slave patrols in those

546
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 1: Carolinas and slave yeah sorry man. Yeah, firston I was

547
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: gonna go, OK, Carolina, but I was like, that's probably

548
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: not gonna land as well as Sweet Carolina. Sweet Carolina. Yeah,

549
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 1: I think you read the room right. Yeah. So slave

550
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: patrols had three jobs. To chase, down, apprehend, and returned

551
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: escaped slaves to their owners, and to discipline slave labors

552
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: via violence if they broke plantation rules. And to act

553
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: as an organized and constant form of state endorsed terror

554
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: in order to stop American slaves from revolting. Now, white

555
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: Southerners lived in pretty much constant fear of slave uprisings

556
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: the Haitian Revolution which started in sevente and again it's

557
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 1: very complicated the Revolutions podcast, But I think Mike Duncan

558
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: is his name, is a great job of breaking this down.

559
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: But the end result of it is that black enslaved

560
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: people rosed up and murdered many of their masters. And

561
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: they also, to make this very complicated, a lot of

562
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 1: their masters were also colored people. It's a very compliment twisted,

563
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: it's really twisted. Supremacy just really scrambles your brain, man, Yeah,

564
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: it sure does. Beside note about Haitians, did you know

565
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: that that's where the word zombie came from? I do. Yeah,

566
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: It's came from a zombie. Yeah, and it is. Yeah,

567
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: there's kind of like, I'm sorry, Sophie, it's history. I'm

568
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 1: just hoping he doesn't sing. She knows I'm going to

569
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 1: start singing the Cranberry song, Zombie. That's what that was triggered.

570
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 1: Job like this, sing to me again, please, Okay? It

571
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: is kind of neat. I don't know, neat maybe the

572
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: wrong word, but I do think like you can. I

573
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe I'm I'm wrong about this, but it

574
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 1: seems like you might be able to draw kind of

575
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: a line and sort of the impetus behind or like

576
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: why kind of these like where the zombie sort of

577
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: myth came from an Haitian culture and it's like roots

578
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: to like the enslavement of of of of black bodies

579
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 1: and like kind of what the like what was kind

580
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: of depicted and get out like yeah, yeah it is.

581
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: There's a lot of there's a lot of ties to

582
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 1: that to where you're just like you're a shell of

583
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 1: who you are. So they're like they look like they're working,

584
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: but they look like there's nothing, no life behind their eyes,

585
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: and it's like, well fooled, duh, saying of course there's

586
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: not like this, is there anything more hopeless than where

587
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 1: I am right now? You know? Yeah? And it was

588
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: you know what what's scared white people so much about

589
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: the Haitian Revolution is that it kind of proved that like,

590
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: oh no, that light is still in there, Like you

591
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: can you can beat them down pretty bad, but like

592
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: it never goes away and like if we're not careful,

593
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 1: that'll happen here and they'll kill us all. Yeah. Yeah,

594
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: And and you know, unfortunately, the Haitian Revolution remains the

595
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: only successful slaveryholt in Western history, I think maybe the

596
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: only the most definitely the most successful slave rebellion anywhere

597
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: in history really because like at least based on like

598
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 1: the yeah, as as far as like Chattow slavery and

599
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,479
Speaker 1: like the trans Atlantic slave trade, that's the only one

600
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: that worked. Yeah yeah, um, which is a it's I mean,

601
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: it's good that it worked. It's a bummer it didn't

602
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: work elsewhere. Um. But the memory of this one successful

603
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: uprising was was really lodged deep in the psyche of

604
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 1: white Southerners and it scared the ship out of them. Um.

605
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: And you can you can hear echoes of that in

606
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: the Slave patrollers Oath from North Carolina in and I'm

607
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna read that now. Well wait, let me

608
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: take a deep breath for you do it? Yeah, Okay,

609
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 1: go for it. Yeah, I Patroller's name, do swear that

610
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: I will, as searcher for guns, swords, and other weapons

611
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: among the slaves in my district, faithfully and as privately

612
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: as I can discharge the trust reposed in me as

613
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: the law directs, to the best of my power. So

614
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: help me God. So again, what they're looking for here,

615
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: they're they're they're trying to stop a rebellion. Um. So

616
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: searching for weaponry is kind of like one aspect of

617
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: how they did this. But really the thing they did

618
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: the most was beat the ever living ship out of slaves.

619
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. Um. Now, in most of the South, working

620
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: in these slave patrols was an obligation for white men,

621
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: similar to compulsory military service, and in most of the

622
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: slave states it was kind of broadly mixed between rich

623
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 1: people and poor people. So like a lot of slave

624
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: patrollers didn't actually own slaves because they were poor white dudes. Um,

625
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 1: But it was kind of seen as a broad duty

626
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: for white people to be in the slave patrols for

627
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: men to kind of rotate through. Um. Now, rich people

628
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: could in some places like basically pay a fine in

629
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: order to not volunteer in the slave patrol um. And

630
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: it was also not uncommon for like wealthy white dudes

631
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: uh and who were ironically the folks who owned the

632
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: most slaves, to pay to have poor white men take

633
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: their place. South Carolina was unique in allowing white women

634
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 1: to be called up for service and slave patrol. So

635
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: that's what, right, Yeah, you know what I'm saying. You know,

636
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: you pick your you pick your oppression, and you're just

637
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: like this is the one I'm gonna fight for. You know,

638
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: it's like cheering when the CIA puts a woman in charge.

639
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: It's like we did it. Yeah. I always say that,

640
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 1: Like I always say, you know, obviously reading the room,

641
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 1: I don't have to tell y'all this, but like just

642
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: the difference between white people and whiteness. You know, it's

643
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: like it's a it's a it's a thing. Whiteness is that,

644
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 1: it's a thing. It's itself just booked and you know,

645
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:18,760
Speaker 1: cooked in a white supremacy. And from from my vantage point,

646
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: it's like just how detrimental that is to the psychology

647
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: of white people. Also, you know what I'm saying, like,

648
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:33,839
Speaker 1: how yeah, like you just this rich dude hires this

649
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: poor dude, right, so now the poor dude feel like,

650
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 1: oh I'm a little more important now, you know what

651
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 1: I'm saying. But like, fam, you he don't dead man,

652
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: don't respect you, that man, don't love you. I will

653
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 1: make you think he don't like you, want you us,

654
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,240
Speaker 1: you want of us, fool you know what I'm saying.

655
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: He's throwing your chump change to do a ship job

656
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 1: that he think he better people. Yeah, I'm gonna oppress

657
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:58,879
Speaker 1: you so you can turn around and oppress somebody else

658
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 1: because the reality is I'm better than you. And it's

659
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 1: just like like it's scrambles. It just it just it's

660
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: turned your brain to a pretzel. Just just does. I'm

661
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 1: not a not a fan. I'm gonna be on record

662
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: about that, taking a bold stance, and I am a

663
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: fan of you two I the band and the two

664
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:21,399
Speaker 1: people I'm looking at. I am a fan of all

665
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:26,879
Speaker 1: all right anyway, So um so yeah, South Carolina, let

666
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: let ladies be in the slave patrols. And I'm not

667
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: sure if they ever actually really did serve in them,

668
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 1: because they kind of they had the option to pick

669
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: a mail from their family to go in as a substitute.

670
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: So I do think that happened more off and there

671
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:38,280
Speaker 1: may have been someone in the road with us. I

672
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 1: I can't tell you, um, but yeah, in you know,

673
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 1: in some states they were kind of more of like

674
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: an air sat sort of force that was kind of

675
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,760
Speaker 1: cobbled together. In some states they were a professional, paid

676
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 1: institution that was like really kind of formalized. UM. In

677
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: some states their membership was cold from local militias. So

678
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: you know, they were there were different, They weren't all

679
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: like there weren't a uniform thing, but kind of the

680
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: way they worked over the decades that slavery was, you know,

681
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 1: a factor in the South. Um, the way they worked

682
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:12,399
Speaker 1: kind of did become formalized. Now. Historian Sally Hayden's book

683
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,280
Speaker 1: Slave Patrols is probably the most comprehensive history yet written

684
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 1: about these the organizations, whatever you wanna call them. She

685
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: argues that in most cases, slave patrols consisted of members

686
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: of all social classes. White people were more or less

687
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 1: unified in their obligation to suppress the black population and

688
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: thus guarantee white supremacy. One piece of evidence Hayden or

689
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: Hadden sorry Um sites to support this is an eighteen

690
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,360
Speaker 1: forty five letter from a former South Carolina governor to

691
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: a visiting English abolitionist, quote with us, every citizen is

692
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: concerned in the maintenance of order and in promoting honesty

693
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 1: and industry. Among those of the lowest class who are

694
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 1: our slaves, and our habitual vigilance or understanding armies, whether

695
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: if soldiers or policemen entirely unnecessary, small guards in our

696
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: cities and occasional patrols in the country ensure us a

697
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 1: repose and security known nowhere else. Yeah, that's how this

698
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: that's how this governor felt, or at least that's what

699
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 1: he wanted. And again he's talking to an abolitionist from

700
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 1: England here. So this is kind of the propaganda spend

701
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:14,839
Speaker 1: of the slave patrols. People have to have an army

702
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: or police because our only danger is from these black people, right,

703
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: Like that's what he's saying. Yeah, that's wow, Yeah, interesting,

704
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:29,240
Speaker 1: it's a brain pretzel man. Yeah, sure is. Yeah. So again,

705
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: in all states, slave patrols did the same basic work,

706
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: which included enforcing the curfew that slaves lived under, checking

707
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: which is talking about curfews, Yeah, curfew, checking traveling slaves

708
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 1: for permission passes, breaking up unlawful assemblies of slaves, and

709
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 1: of course searching for weapons. Just okay, yeah, I'm gonna

710
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,359
Speaker 1: need you to I'm gonna need you to define its

711
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: arms here, you know, overseers, Like, what do you mean

712
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 1: by unlawful gathering. Yeah, this ain't my house, this ain't

713
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: my land. I'm not even my own it would I

714
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 1: would tell me what I mean, what do you get?

715
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 1: Where do you want us to stand? Where do you

716
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:15,879
Speaker 1: want us to stand so that you don't feel scared? Yeah?

717
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: That really is what it like comes down to, like

718
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,880
Speaker 1: where where do we what? What can we do to

719
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 1: not scare you? Do you want to just like turn

720
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 1: off after we're done farming? Like what do you like? Yeah?

721
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: Then then if that's the case, you should have just

722
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: hired animals. Yeah you know what I'm saying, Like, yeah,

723
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:36,800
Speaker 1: that's how they felt, yes, exactly, Yeah, so yeah. Historian

724
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: Sally Hayden writes in her book Slave Patrols, quote, the

725
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 1: history of police work in the South grows out of

726
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 1: this early fascination by white patrollers with what African American

727
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 1: slaves were doing. Most law enforcement was, by definition, white

728
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: patrolmen watching, catching, or beating black slaves. And I do

729
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,879
Speaker 1: find that really interesting because that's a through line right

730
00:38:55,920 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 1: up to today. This destination stopped. Yeah, never stop, you guys. Yeah,

731
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 1: And I like what she described that, this fascination with

732
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 1: what African Americans were doing, right, Like that's what the

733
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 1: origin of policing in the South. Have you heard of

734
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 1: the Have you heard of the phrase like and it's

735
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,800
Speaker 1: it's in it's in like feminism also, but the phrase

736
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,839
Speaker 1: the male gaze. Ye, yeah, so like in the same

737
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 1: same thing and like black activism spaces where it's like

738
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 1: the white gaze's just like what are you looking at

739
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: all the damn time? Like good lord, just make something

740
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,240
Speaker 1: up yourself, Like why like just can you go do something?

741
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: Like you know, I think you said in one of

742
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,320
Speaker 1: your one of the episodes because I am an actual

743
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 1: fan listeners, I listened to the show like that you

744
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: were just like if we could just give just like

745
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:46,399
Speaker 1: white kids some cosplay, that's like you're allowed to just

746
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: like shoot things into an open space, and you know

747
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Like that maybe you wouldn't just be

748
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:57,240
Speaker 1: so worried about like what I'm doing right now, you know, Yeah,

749
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 1: Like that's that's I I do think Warida, which is

750
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 1: you know, our plan to wall off Florida turning into

751
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,919
Speaker 1: a free fire zone for just as once the war. Yeah,

752
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 1: as long as we like cover like Miami, Yeah, just

753
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 1: keep Miami. Yeah we can keep Mi Miami. Yeah, we

754
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 1: have to. We have to protect Orlando real quick so

755
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 1: that I can watch the NBA playoffs. All right, well

756
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 1: we're rapidly chiseling away. This is not fun, man, Orlando's

757
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 1: too far inland. Yeah, well we'll find a war state,

758
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 1: we you know, figure it out. Maybe the Panhandle. Can

759
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:37,439
Speaker 1: we go like the Texas Panhandle? Nobody likes that, Yeah,

760
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:41,399
Speaker 1: nobody likes turn Abilene into a free fire zone. Why

761
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: is Evelene a city anywhere? We don't need to be

762
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:49,320
Speaker 1: a city here. Yes, yeah, I'd apologize to the Abilene listeners,

763
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 1: but there's no one listening from Abilene. Or you're in

764
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 1: Dallas now, could you realize Abilene shouldn't exist. Abilene the

765
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: place where you will absolutely get pulled over if you

766
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 1: drive through, just because there's nothing else for the constant,

767
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 1: nothing else to do. A Beelieen where as soon as

768
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 1: you're eighteen, we'll see you later. Yeah, get out of there.

769
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,479
Speaker 1: So the violence meeted out by slave patrols was neither

770
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 1: random nor disorganized. Slave patrollers had the right to detain

771
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:21,320
Speaker 1: and deterrogate and search slave quarters that were allowed to

772
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: seize property at will um, which was you could see

773
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,320
Speaker 1: as kind of an early form of civil asset forfeiture.

774
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 1: They also had the right to punish black people on

775
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: the spot for infractions of slave laws. Now, physical punishment

776
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 1: could be dealt out via firearms, but was usually dealt

777
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 1: out by what we're called either negro whips or negro dogs.

778
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: And I probably don't need to explain what negro dogs were,

779
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,399
Speaker 1: but they they're they're large bloodhounds that patrollers used both

780
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,760
Speaker 1: to track down slaves and to horribly name them. Um.

781
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,359
Speaker 1: And and that is the term that that historians used

782
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 1: for these is negro dogs, because that's what they were

783
00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 1: called by. Yeah. Um. So we're talking mostly about slave patrols,

784
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: and there's there's a lot of other areas that could

785
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 1: get into detail, and I just don't have the time too.

786
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 1: But I should note here that slave patrols were not

787
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: entirely the first thing kind of like slave patrols to

788
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 1: exist in the United States, Even before slavery was really

789
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 1: common in the United States. U S settlers in New

790
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:22,240
Speaker 1: England appointed Indian constables whose job was the police Native Americans,

791
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 1: often by violent terror. Um. And it's worth noting that

792
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 1: the St. Louis Police, who we are we'll be talking

793
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: about a bit at the end here were formed both

794
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:33,400
Speaker 1: as a slave patrol and as a patrol to defend

795
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 1: white people against Native Americans. So that is a big

796
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 1: factor in a lot of this too. You know, some

797
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 1: of these areas, the native populations kind of had gotten

798
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 1: exterminated or pushed out by the time things formalized. But

799
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: in a number of particularly more quote unquote frontier places,

800
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 1: slave patrols also did a lot of violence against Native Americans,

801
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 1: and that is an important aspect of this. And even

802
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,439
Speaker 1: in the North, where slave patrols weren't a thing, there

803
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: were you know, groups of vigilantes, well not quite vigilantes,

804
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:01,320
Speaker 1: because they were sort of part of the government whose

805
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,720
Speaker 1: job was to like, you know, do violence to Native people.

806
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 1: Um so that is a factor in all this as well.

807
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 1: Um So, yeah, if we want to be perfectly accurate,

808
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 1: the case is less as it's made on Twitter, that

809
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: US police started as slave patrols and more that US

810
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 1: police started as a series of armed groups whose central

811
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 1: purpose was to protect white people from non white people

812
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: via violence. That that would be yeah, that that's that

813
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 1: that Yeah, that gets your your critical race theory juices going.

814
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 1: The intersectionality of of oppression from the police, like it ain't.

815
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 1: Look yeah, they coming for you too. That's always been

816
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 1: That's always been my anset. Look you're chilling, They're coming

817
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 1: for you too, how you know. So the institution of

818
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 1: slave patrols evolved and formalized over time, and for a

819
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:50,399
Speaker 1: look at how that worked, I think it'll be used

820
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 1: for us to zoom in on the case of my

821
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 1: home state, Missouri. Now, Missouri entered the Union in eighteen

822
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 1: twenty one as a slave state, and racism was obviously

823
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:01,879
Speaker 1: baked into the new policy from the beginning. In eighteen five,

824
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 1: the new state passed a law banning any quote free

825
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: negro or mulatto from coming into the state under any

826
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 1: pretext whatsoever UM, which Oregon had a pretty similar but

827
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 1: partial rule after the Civil War. So like, yeah, how

828
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 1: racist Oregon started out as UM eight is also the

829
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 1: year that Missouri established its very first slave patrols. And

830
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 1: I'm going to quote now from a paper by Morehouse

831
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 1: College professor Larry Sproule. Quote, by eighteen forty five, these

832
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 1: patrols had permission to administer from ten to thirty lashes

833
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 1: to slaves found strolling about from one plantation to another

834
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 1: without pass from his master mistress. Or overseer or strolling about. Yeah,

835
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 1: you can't go for no walk? What's wrong with you?

836
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: And you could just as what you just said. It's like, oh, no,

837
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:47,920
Speaker 1: I don't have a like I'm free. I don't have

838
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 1: a master. Yeah, well you ain't got no letter from

839
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 1: your master. No, sir, you're not listening to me. I

840
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 1: don't have a master. You're breaking the law. Well, then

841
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 1: you don't belong in this state. Yep, all right, I guess. Yeah.

842
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: So Missouri slave patrols worked at least twelve hours a month, um.

843
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:10,439
Speaker 1: But also you know, some people worked a lot more,

844
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: and members received about twenty five cents per hour. Now

845
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 1: I should note here that the patrols weren't just randomly

846
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 1: accosting individual slaves. Enslaved humans in the United States resisted

847
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 1: their situation in a variety of ways, um and so

848
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 1: there were often, like, you know, minor little uprisings that

849
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: slave patrols were like working to put down. So slaves

850
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 1: would often take crops and livestock from from their masters.

851
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,439
Speaker 1: They would burn fields and even plantation houses. They would

852
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,839
Speaker 1: poison their masters, and they would attempt uprisings, um and so,

853
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,760
Speaker 1: like the Spartan crypteia. Most of the work of slave

854
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 1: patrols was broadly what we would call counterinsurgency today. In

855
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 1: many rural counties in Missouri, um enslaved black persons were

856
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 1: the majority of people, and whites were well aware that

857
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:52,879
Speaker 1: they had, you know, kind of a tiger by the tail.

858
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: Sprul continues quote. Southern whites developed a collective conscience and

859
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 1: political consensus to tightly control blacks within their midst. Slave

860
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 1: policing demanded accountability for every captive's whereabouts. A missing slave

861
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:08,279
Speaker 1: was caused for grave concern, often causing panic. Fear of

862
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 1: insurrection made unauthorized blacks on roads are in the public square.

863
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 1: Hazardous racial features made blacks visible, suspect and vulnerable to

864
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 1: slave patrollers looking to catch h inward out of his

865
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 1: place without a pass. Just as blackness was the stigmatized

866
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: identification of bondsman, it also singled them out as suspects

867
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 1: and criminals. An enslaved African's phenotype marked them as a habitual,

868
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:36,720
Speaker 1: dangerous class, requiring relentless supervision and policing to guarantee their submission. Yeah,

869
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 1: that also sounds familiar. Yeah, that sounds familiar. And we'll

870
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 1: be talking the term dangerous class is used constantly by

871
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 1: historians who study policing in the United States that we

872
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:51,479
Speaker 1: will be talking a lot about the idea of dangerous classes. Yeah,

873
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: it's an important concept. You don't realize, like how that

874
00:46:55,400 --> 00:47:01,279
Speaker 1: like that that just poisonous stain like just that that

875
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 1: that weird DNA strand just like stayed with us to

876
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 1: the point to where you know you're I know you're

877
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 1: gonna get to it later. But like you know, black men,

878
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 1: black boys being treated like adults when your kids because

879
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 1: you already think we're more dangerous in your first gun.

880
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 1: I was the first time coll pulled a gun on me.

881
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 1: I was fourteen, and I was like, I didn't grown

882
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 1: on facial hair. I still had a squeaky voice. It

883
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 1: just was terrified. He was talking to me like I

884
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: was so hard and criminal, and I'm like, dog, I'm

885
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:33,839
Speaker 1: a freshman. I'm a freshman in high school. Like I'm

886
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 1: scared that I'm like, my mom's gonna be pissed because

887
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:38,839
Speaker 1: I'm home late. That's what I'm scared about. My mom

888
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:40,839
Speaker 1: gonna be pissed that I was supposed to be home

889
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 1: at three five. I'm gonna get home at four fifteen,

890
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:45,320
Speaker 1: she gonna be like, where the hell are you? You

891
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, So like I'm I'm tearing and

892
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:50,439
Speaker 1: he's talking to me, like I know, I don't even

893
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,320
Speaker 1: know the words he's saying. It's because you already see

894
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 1: us already as dangerous. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and yeah this

895
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 1: is this is like how that kind of starts and

896
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,800
Speaker 1: evolves and how that ball gets rolling to the boulder

897
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 1: it is today. Um yeah, So for kind of another

898
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 1: another look at how people saw the slave patrols in

899
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 1: that time, Um, I want to go to a guy

900
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 1: named Basil Hall. He was a nineteenth century English traveler

901
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,759
Speaker 1: and author. He visited the American South in eighteen twenty

902
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 1: nine and he wound up in Richmond, Virginia. His recollection

903
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 1: of how slave patrols were explained to him gives us

904
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: another insight into how white people talked about this institution

905
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: to other white people, which I think is compelling. Quote

906
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:33,760
Speaker 1: in walking around, my eyes were struck with the unusual

907
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:36,919
Speaker 1: site of a sentinel marching with his musket. My companion said,

908
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 1: and his companion is a local American Southerner, white Southerner. Obviously,

909
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,399
Speaker 1: it is necessary to have a small guard always under arms.

910
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 1: It is the consequence of the nature of our colored population.

911
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,279
Speaker 1: But it has done more as a preventative check than

912
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 1: anything else. It keeps all thoughts of insurrection out of

913
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: the heads of the slaves, and so gives confidence to

914
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 1: those persons amongst us who may be timorous. But in

915
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 1: reality there is no cause for alarm. The blacks have

916
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 1: become more and more sense of every day of their

917
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:04,759
Speaker 1: want of power. After further inquiry, Hall noted, I learned

918
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 1: that there was in all these places in towns, a

919
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 1: vigorous and active police, whose rule is that no negro,

920
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 1: for example, is allowed to be out of doors after

921
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 1: sunset without a written pass from his master explaining the

922
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,359
Speaker 1: nature of his errand if during his absence from home

923
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 1: he'd be found wandering from the proper line of his message,

924
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 1: he is speedily taken up and corrected accordingly. So that's

925
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 1: a lot of that's interesting, Like the idea that, like,

926
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 1: the police are here not just to keep keep black

927
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 1: people in line, but so that frightened white people don't

928
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:38,840
Speaker 1: get scared of black people. That's an interesting part to me. Yeah. Yeah,

929
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 1: that's a good that yeah, that layer yeah yeah, man, Yeah, yeah,

930
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 1: it's like it's here, We're here for Karen's too. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

931
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 1: You can always call us, you can always call the cops. Scared. Yeah,

932
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:57,400
Speaker 1: that's exactly what's going on here. So slaves patrols were

933
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 1: generally limited to pursuing escaped slaves within their own counties.

934
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 1: When a slaver or a group of slaves was fortunate

935
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:05,240
Speaker 1: enough to be able to move further away from wherever

936
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 1: they were being held, bounty hunters, like slave bounty hunters,

937
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,279
Speaker 1: generally took on the job of attempting to track these

938
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 1: slaves down, and these men were allowed across state lines,

939
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 1: and their work was supported by the Fugitive Slave Act,

940
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:18,319
Speaker 1: which was passed in eighteen fifty as part of a

941
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 1: compromise to try and avoid a civil war. The law

942
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 1: mandated that all escaped slaves, if captured, be returned to

943
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 1: their masters, even if those slaves had escaped to a

944
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 1: free state. Abolitionists called this the Bloodhound Bill, after the

945
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,479
Speaker 1: dogs that bounty hunters and slave patrollers used to track

946
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 1: down slaves. Solomon Northrop, author of the memoire Twelve Years

947
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 1: a Slave, gave one account of what it was like

948
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 1: to watch patrollers with dogs hunt down an enslaved black person.

949
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:45,800
Speaker 1: In this case, it was not even an escaped slave,

950
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 1: but merely an individual who had broken his curfew. Quote.

951
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:52,239
Speaker 1: One slave fled before one of these companies, thinking he

952
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 1: could reach his cabin before they could overtake him. But

953
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:57,239
Speaker 1: one of their dogs, a great ravenous hound, gripped him

954
00:50:57,239 --> 00:50:59,760
Speaker 1: by the leg and held him fast. The patrollers whipped

955
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 1: him severely. Yeah, I want to be careful. I don't

956
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 1: want to draw because it's it does a disservice to

957
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 1: like the horrific suffering of black people in this period

958
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 1: of time and today to to draw like too many

959
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 1: direct comparisons to some of the stuff happening now. But

960
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:21,400
Speaker 1: it's not I don't think we can go without entirely

961
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 1: mentioning it that Like probably a lot of people listening

962
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:26,320
Speaker 1: right now had violence done to them by police recently

963
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:29,359
Speaker 1: for breaking curfew. Like that is interesting to me, Like

964
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 1: the the the session with curfew is a through line, right,

965
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 1: but like if you're out when you're not allowed to,

966
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 1: we get to funk you up. Like yeah, and it's funny,

967
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:40,760
Speaker 1: like I was talking with you know, some of my friends, Uh,

968
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 1: my wife, even my daughter got My daughter is old

969
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 1: enough now to like go to protests, go to protests

970
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 1: with us, and you know, and kind of like kind

971
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:51,719
Speaker 1: of do our own thing, and just us at this

972
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 1: point being like, okay, dude, are you serious. Like at California,

973
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:00,880
Speaker 1: we just kept getting the alerts, like for five o'clock,

974
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 1: six o'clock, it just kept you kept getting Amber alerted

975
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: the thing, and it's like, dude, okay, bro get it

976
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:09,799
Speaker 1: together all right and just talk to us later. But

977
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 1: it's kind of like we we're kind of like, is

978
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 1: this a joke? Man, Like, Okay, so it's a thousand

979
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:19,319
Speaker 1: dollar fine, Okay, throw me in the pattiwagon. Thousand dollars fine,

980
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 1: it's fine. You know what I'm saying. Um, maybe you're

981
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 1: gonna rough me up a little bit, but I'm black,

982
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 1: I'm from Los Angeles. You've been roughing me up my

983
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 1: whole life, you know what I'm saying. So for us,

984
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,719
Speaker 1: we were kind of like, it's kind of it's kind

985
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 1: of laughable, and then you go back to like, no,

986
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 1: it wasn't always laughable. Yeah, you know, like this was terror. Yeah,

987
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 1: this was absolutely terror, and I think they would have

988
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 1: It's interesting that it is talked about slave patrols as

989
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 1: like a counterinsurgency. But like the way they counter the

990
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 1: insurgency was my being terrorists terrorists. Yeah, and that's the

991
00:52:55,480 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 1: first police departments. So Spruit's article, which we've been quoting from,

992
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 1: includes a number of other firsthand accounts by enslaved persons

993
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:07,919
Speaker 1: of the use of these these dogs, you know, these bloodhounds,

994
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 1: negro dogs. Um. Most of these accounts were taken down

995
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 1: during the Great Depression. Which is one of the coolest

996
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 1: things they did during the New Deal is the FDR

997
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:18,280
Speaker 1: administration send a bunch of people out to interview former

998
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:20,319
Speaker 1: slaves who are right now at that point quite old.

999
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 1: But that's where we get a lot of ore, a

1000
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 1: lot of our like kind of formal stories of what

1001
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:26,720
Speaker 1: it was like to be an enslaved person this period.

1002
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 1: So thank you the New Deal for that particular was

1003
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:33,319
Speaker 1: a good call. Um. So one of these people who

1004
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 1: has interviewed noted quote, in every district they had about

1005
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 1: twelve men they call patrollers. They write up and down

1006
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 1: and round looking for inwards without passes. When slaves run away,

1007
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 1: they always put the bloodhounds on the tracks. They had

1008
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 1: the dogs trained to keep their teeth out of you

1009
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 1: till they hold them up to bring you down. Then

1010
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 1: the dogs would go at your throat and they'd tear

1011
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 1: you to pieces too. After a slave was caught, he

1012
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 1: was brung home and put in chains. M Yeah, so

1013
00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 1: we also have recollections of slave patrol members of their

1014
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:02,440
Speaker 1: use of dogs. One of these guys, and who was

1015
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 1: a slave patroller in Louisiana in eighteen fifty seven, described

1016
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 1: his method of work thus, Lee quote, If I can

1017
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:12,319
Speaker 1: catch a cust runaway in word without killing him, very good. Though.

1018
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 1: I generally let the hounds punish him a little, and

1019
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:16,840
Speaker 1: sometimes give him a load of squirrel shot, which is

1020
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 1: like a light shotgunload. If mild measures like these do

1021
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:22,880
Speaker 1: not suffice, I use harsher punishment. The moment the hounds

1022
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 1: come close, they utter a hideous and mournful howl. Heaven,

1023
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 1: pity the poor. And then he uses the in word again.

1024
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:32,719
Speaker 1: So yeah, not a not a good dude. I hope

1025
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:36,440
Speaker 1: he didn't make it out of that Civil War. Um. Yeah, yeah,

1026
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:41,759
Speaker 1: I hope that guy got Gettysburg. Yeah, I hope he

1027
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 1: met Sherman or Grant or someone. Yeah, I'm about to

1028
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 1: get his burg this transition. Yeah, let's get Easburg. These

1029
00:54:48,719 --> 00:55:00,399
Speaker 1: ads like pickets. I don't know, just run as So

1030
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 1: we're back, uh, and we're talking about the use of

1031
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 1: dogs to enforce a regime based in terrorism. Um, otherwise

1032
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 1: known as the American sound. That's kind of what it was. Yeah.

1033
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 1: So the horrible wounds left by these these dogs fulfilled

1034
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 1: the dual purpose. They served as a reminder of white supremacy. Um.

1035
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:25,919
Speaker 1: It is an easy way to identify troublesome slaves because

1036
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 1: obviously there's a ton of slaves with horrible dog scars

1037
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 1: and see other black people seeing those scars. Both would

1038
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:34,759
Speaker 1: be like white people have the power because like, look

1039
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:37,279
Speaker 1: at what they're how badly all these people got sucked up.

1040
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:39,319
Speaker 1: And also it was a way for the white people

1041
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 1: to see like that guy's that guy's trouble, Like that

1042
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 1: was your arrest record? Was the dog stars on your face? Yeah? Um,

1043
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:50,880
Speaker 1: he's the red sports car. Yeah that's what the teachers.

1044
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:52,440
Speaker 1: That's what the teachers tell you. You You know, you're kind

1045
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 1: of a red sports car kid. Yeah. I decide what

1046
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:56,760
Speaker 1: the cops is gonna look for you because I expect

1047
00:55:56,760 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 1: you to be fast, Like yeah, thanks, Miss Williams. It's

1048
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:06,400
Speaker 1: pretty obscure, deep cut like but still anyway, No nobody

1049
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:08,439
Speaker 1: tells white kids stuff like that. At least I didn't

1050
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 1: hear anything, Like you didn't hear the red car vet

1051
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:13,160
Speaker 1: or the red sports car story. I mean I got

1052
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:15,479
Speaker 1: told as a as a young adult, I got told

1053
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 1: not to buy a red car because the police cite

1054
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 1: them for speeding more often. But like that that was

1055
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:26,800
Speaker 1: my thing. Yeah, well that's there. It is. Yeah, yeah,

1056
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 1: it is weird that we tell people in general, like

1057
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:32,239
Speaker 1: don't stand out or the Yeah, I don't know, I

1058
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 1: don't want to be leaders, don't stand out. So um.

1059
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:40,680
Speaker 1: By the onset of the Civil War, bloodhounds had grown

1060
00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:43,360
Speaker 1: to become the single most reliable tool of oppression in

1061
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 1: the arsenal of Southern whites. Like the dogs in particular

1062
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 1: were like the way in which more than any other

1063
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 1: tool white people like, I think even the lash was

1064
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 1: used more as like a punishment, but like in terms

1065
00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 1: of a tool of actual oppression, Like the dogs were

1066
00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 1: really like the fucking thing. Um. And when the Civil

1067
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 1: War started, the organized and militantmen of the slave patrols

1068
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 1: were all too happy to turn their counterinsurgency skills to

1069
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 1: use in a real war. One Union field officers scouting

1070
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:14,120
Speaker 1: through rebel lands in eighteen sixty two, reported hearing the

1071
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 1: constant barking of hounds, which would have been turned towards

1072
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 1: a new use searching for Union infiltraders. This officer described

1073
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 1: dogs as the detective officers of Slavery's police. Confederate generals

1074
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 1: also deployed bloodhounds on the front line. Black Union soldiers

1075
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:31,080
Speaker 1: were considered fugitive slaves in arms, and it was seen

1076
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:34,080
Speaker 1: as only logical that these Negro dogs could be used

1077
00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 1: to break their will and send them fleeing from battle.

1078
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:38,480
Speaker 1: You know that these Southern generals were like, they're so

1079
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 1: scared of these dogs. If we use them against these

1080
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:43,280
Speaker 1: new black military units, it will make them all run away, right, Like,

1081
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 1: clearly they these guys won't be able to handle, you know,

1082
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:50,720
Speaker 1: standing up to dogs in combat. Yeah. This was one

1083
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:53,960
Speaker 1: of many misconceptions that the things we're going to go

1084
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:57,840
Speaker 1: in that war. On October eighteen sixty two, the Battle

1085
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:01,000
Speaker 1: of Polka Taligo Bridge marked the first time Black soldiers

1086
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 1: came face to face with the Negro dogs of slave

1087
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 1: patrols in open combat. The black soldiers were the men

1088
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 1: of the first South Carolina Colored Regiments, and their field

1089
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 1: reports stated that the men met these dogs with bayonets

1090
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 1: killed four or five of their old tormentors with great relish.

1091
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:19,400
Speaker 1: And I'm not normally a killing dogs person, but in

1092
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 1: this case it's a good story. Yeah. Yeah, just you

1093
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 1: when you and I feel like, knowing a little bit

1094
00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 1: of your backstory, you'd be surprised when a person is

1095
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:36,440
Speaker 1: like fighting for their life, the amount of bravery and

1096
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:40,200
Speaker 1: adrenaline that you can muster up when you're like I,

1097
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:43,919
Speaker 1: I'm not dying today. Yeah, it's not happening to day,

1098
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:46,200
Speaker 1: you know. So yeah, when you when you don't under

1099
00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 1: if you want to estimate that, and you just think

1100
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 1: you you think this dog, you think this dog Finn,

1101
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 1: stop these men like you think. I'm worried about that

1102
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:56,080
Speaker 1: little dog right now? Nah, bro, we got going back.

1103
00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:59,320
Speaker 1: We're not going back. We got guns now, you know

1104
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:03,320
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah, So, fighting between Confederate units

1105
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:06,040
Speaker 1: with slavehounds and Black Union units continued throughout the war.

1106
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:08,600
Speaker 1: In eighteen sixty four, one Black soldier wrote a letter

1107
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:10,640
Speaker 1: back to his wife depicting one such batter and was

1108
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:12,280
Speaker 1: he actually wrote her a poem and it's a pretty

1109
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:14,600
Speaker 1: cool poem. So I'm going to read that. Now we

1110
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:17,080
Speaker 1: met the bloodhounds at the bridge. They ran with all

1111
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:19,960
Speaker 1: their might. It was a glorious site. We ran our

1112
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 1: bayonets through their backs. We shot them with the gun.

1113
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 1: It was all over with the dogs, and twas most

1114
00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 1: glorious fun. In former days, those brutes were used to

1115
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:30,600
Speaker 1: hunt the flying slave. They tracked them through their dismal

1116
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:33,760
Speaker 1: swamps and little quarter gave. But when they tried the

1117
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:36,160
Speaker 1: game of war, we knocked them on the head. We

1118
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:38,960
Speaker 1: shot them quick and ran them through until every hound

1119
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:49,680
Speaker 1: was dead. Oh yeah, that's bars. Yeah, so obviously, and

1120
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:52,120
Speaker 1: um spoilers here to the listeners who have not caught

1121
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 1: up to us, history passed like eighteen sixty four. The

1122
00:59:54,640 --> 01:00:03,360
Speaker 1: Confederacy didn't win at all in our lost. I'll tell

1123
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 1: you one of the I I got to watch from

1124
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:08,480
Speaker 1: a distance someone in my neighborhood in Portland have a

1125
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:12,160
Speaker 1: real like like growth moment. So there's this, you know,

1126
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:14,680
Speaker 1: the General Lee the car from the hazard that was

1127
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:16,560
Speaker 1: like the Confederate flag on the hood. I had a

1128
01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:19,600
Speaker 1: little hot wheels one. Yeah sure, yeah. Um there's a

1129
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 1: guy who lives not far from me who has like

1130
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:24,560
Speaker 1: a who has that car like a perfect replica of

1131
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:27,240
Speaker 1: the Generally and it had the Confederate flag on it.

1132
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:28,520
Speaker 1: And for the first few months I lived there, I

1133
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:30,200
Speaker 1: would see him driving through the streets with his big

1134
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 1: Confederate flag on his general Lee. And about to three

1135
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:36,560
Speaker 1: months ago I saw him driving his car but he

1136
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 1: painted over the Confederate flag and it was just orange.

1137
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:44,120
Speaker 1: I was like, oh you had ad you like, yeah,

1138
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:47,120
Speaker 1: you had a little moment. Good for you. You grew

1139
01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 1: a bit. Yes see. That's what I mean by the Northwest,

1140
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:55,800
Speaker 1: specificallymportant as a tale of two cities, because I'm like,

1141
01:00:56,280 --> 01:01:01,920
Speaker 1: there's this just bashtion of like left progressive, like freedom

1142
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:06,840
Speaker 1: fighting Yato and like, you know, Tiger Claw, damn like

1143
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:10,280
Speaker 1: hard hard ciders at the police, you know what I'm saying.

1144
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:15,040
Speaker 1: And then and then there's the guy with the right

1145
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:18,200
Speaker 1: in my life, my life. It's a complicated place, yes,

1146
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:21,160
Speaker 1: and then the right guy with the robberty league, with

1147
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:23,680
Speaker 1: the with the general League. Like it's just it's two

1148
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:26,440
Speaker 1: cities in one place. Some of the greatest coffee in

1149
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:30,800
Speaker 1: the world, quote solid beer quote me, some of the

1150
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:35,200
Speaker 1: most amazing beer. And then there's like and then there's Salem.

1151
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:41,760
Speaker 1: You're like, there's Salem how it happened. Yeah, yeah, so,

1152
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:44,880
Speaker 1: um yeah. The Confederacy lost the war, and by eighteen

1153
01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 1: sixty five, both the dream of Southern independence and slavery

1154
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 1: were dead. White supremacy, though did not die. White people

1155
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:55,040
Speaker 1: in the former Confederate States wasted no time in turning

1156
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:58,600
Speaker 1: the institutions of the slave patrols into formal police departments.

1157
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 1: In eighteen sixty five, if the editor of the Lynchburg

1158
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:04,720
Speaker 1: Virginian noted, which was the newspaper, noted that quote, stringent

1159
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:08,120
Speaker 1: police regulations may be necessary to keep freedman from over

1160
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:11,720
Speaker 1: burdening the towns and depleting the agricultural regions of labor.

1161
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 1: The civil authority should also be fully empowered to protect

1162
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:18,200
Speaker 1: the community from this new imposition. The magistrates and municipal

1163
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 1: officers everywhere should be permitted to hold a rod into

1164
01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:24,840
Speaker 1: a ram over these wandering, idle creatures. Nothing short of

1165
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:28,800
Speaker 1: the most efficient police system will prevent strolling, vagrancy, theft,

1166
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 1: and other destruction of our industrial system. So that's pretty clear.

1167
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:36,880
Speaker 1: That's pretty great. It's the it's the like, it's the moment. Like.

1168
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:40,080
Speaker 1: So the Chappelle Show years ago had a skit where

1169
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:45,600
Speaker 1: he depicted the day, like the postman comes with the

1170
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:49,400
Speaker 1: letter that the slaves are free, right, Like it's one

1171
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:51,920
Speaker 1: of the greatest skits, and they're just and he's about

1172
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:53,680
Speaker 1: to whoop this whip this guy whipped, this guy, whipp

1173
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:56,360
Speaker 1: this guy. Then the postman walks up and he goes, well,

1174
01:02:56,440 --> 01:03:00,840
Speaker 1: apparently apparently you guys are free. It's starts like looking

1175
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:02,919
Speaker 1: around at all the other slaves around him, and they're

1176
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 1: like he's like, uh hey, sorry about that a second ago, man,

1177
01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:11,400
Speaker 1: you know, just like so what do you do? Like

1178
01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:14,320
Speaker 1: what exactly? So they're like, we bet it, you know,

1179
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:16,520
Speaker 1: we bet it. We bet to get us some protection

1180
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 1: because those last hundred years were kind of ship to them.

1181
01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:23,720
Speaker 1: Oh ship, what if they treat us even a little

1182
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:30,440
Speaker 1: bit as bad as were Yeah. In her book Slave Patrols,

1183
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:34,640
Speaker 1: Hayden notes quote policemen in southern towns continued to carry

1184
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:37,640
Speaker 1: out those aspects of urban slave patrolling that seemed race

1185
01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:41,400
Speaker 1: neutral but in reality were applied selectively. Police saw that

1186
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:44,640
Speaker 1: nightly curfews and vagrancy laws kept blacks off city streets,

1187
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:47,560
Speaker 1: just as patrollers had done in colonial and anti bellum times.

1188
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:50,200
Speaker 1: In the post war South, police were seen as the

1189
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:52,920
Speaker 1: single most important method of maintaining a system of, in

1190
01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:56,280
Speaker 1: the words of one prominent Virginia clergyman, liberty for the

1191
01:03:56,280 --> 01:03:59,680
Speaker 1: white man, slavery for the inward, so long as the

1192
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:06,919
Speaker 1: white man is able to hold him m M. Exactly now.

1193
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:10,680
Speaker 1: In the textbook Policing by North Dakota States Karro Archbold,

1194
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 1: published by Sage Press, uh, it gets like that text

1195
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:16,680
Speaker 1: book gives a rundown of how slave patrollers transitioned into

1196
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:18,880
Speaker 1: policing freed blacks in the post war period. And I'm

1197
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:22,920
Speaker 1: gonna quote from that next. During early reconstruction, several groups

1198
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:25,280
Speaker 1: merged with what was formerly known as slave patrols to

1199
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:28,680
Speaker 1: maintain order over African American citizens. Groups such as the

1200
01:04:28,680 --> 01:04:31,640
Speaker 1: Federal military, the State Militia, and the ku Klux Klan

1201
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:34,560
Speaker 1: took over the responsibilities of earlier slave patrols and were

1202
01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:37,720
Speaker 1: known to be even more violent than their predecessors. Over time,

1203
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 1: these groups began to resemble and operate similar to some

1204
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:43,440
Speaker 1: of the newly established police departments in the United States.

1205
01:04:43,640 --> 01:04:46,560
Speaker 1: In fact, David Barlow and Melissa Barlow note that by

1206
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:49,440
Speaker 1: eighteen thirty seven, the Charleston Police Department had a hundred

1207
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 1: officers and the primary function of this organization was slave patrol.

1208
01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 1: These officers regulated the movements of slaves and free blacks,

1209
01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 1: checking documents and forcing slave codes, guarding against slave revolts,

1210
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:02,480
Speaker 1: and catching runawa slaves. Scholars and historians assert that the

1211
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:06,120
Speaker 1: transition from slave patrols to publicly funded police agencies was

1212
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:08,560
Speaker 1: seamless in the southern region of the United States. So

1213
01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:11,120
Speaker 1: they just took these slave patrols. The war is over,

1214
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:15,919
Speaker 1: now your cops. That's literally how it went. Yeah. Now

1215
01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:18,640
Speaker 1: that's not every obviously, not every police part from the

1216
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:20,440
Speaker 1: South because like a lot of cities and towns that

1217
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:22,280
Speaker 1: are in the South now and have police didn't exist

1218
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:25,680
Speaker 1: back then. But like, for example, the St. Louis Police

1219
01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:28,720
Speaker 1: started as a slave patrol. The the St. Louis Police

1220
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:33,160
Speaker 1: Department that existed today began as a slave patrol. Yes,

1221
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:36,520
Speaker 1: the current St. Louis Police have their origins as a

1222
01:05:36,560 --> 01:05:41,600
Speaker 1: slave patrol. Yeah. So a number of the St. Louis

1223
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:44,840
Speaker 1: Police Department's first officers were former bounty hunters and slave patrollers,

1224
01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:47,640
Speaker 1: and they brought to their new job their old tactics,

1225
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:51,560
Speaker 1: most specifically their old tactic of using dogs to torture

1226
01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:56,520
Speaker 1: and terrify black people and Here's where things get real, real,

1227
01:05:57,000 --> 01:06:01,840
Speaker 1: real angry making, because the use of Negro dogs continues

1228
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:05,120
Speaker 1: to this moment right now in present day St. Louis.

1229
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:10,919
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah, talk to huh, I said, talked

1230
01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:18,120
Speaker 1: to me so stomping into air force ones. In two

1231
01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:21,560
Speaker 1: thousand fourteen, the murder of Michael Brown by a Ferguson St.

1232
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:25,600
Speaker 1: Louis police officer prompted an uprising by the city's black population.

1233
01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:27,440
Speaker 1: And people are broadly familiar with us, and this was

1234
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:30,800
Speaker 1: suppressed with extreme violence. But the whole affair forced the

1235
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:33,680
Speaker 1: Department of Justice to conduct and publish an expansive report

1236
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 1: on the Ferguson Police Department's behavior. This report concluded that, quote,

1237
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:41,480
Speaker 1: the Ferguson Police Department engages in a pattern of deploying

1238
01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:44,920
Speaker 1: canines to bite individuals when the articulated facts do not

1239
01:06:45,080 --> 01:06:48,560
Speaker 1: justify the significant use of force, leaving serious puncture wounds

1240
01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:52,800
Speaker 1: to non violent offenders, some of them children. Now, the

1241
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:55,480
Speaker 1: report went on to note that Ferguson police were allowed

1242
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:58,800
Speaker 1: to sick dogs on suspects when any crime not just

1243
01:06:58,840 --> 01:07:02,560
Speaker 1: a felony or violent rhyme has been committed. This permissiveness,

1244
01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:05,440
Speaker 1: combined with the absence of meaningful supervisory review and an

1245
01:07:05,440 --> 01:07:08,560
Speaker 1: apparent tendency to overstate the threat based on race has

1246
01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:11,600
Speaker 1: a resulted in avoidable dog bites to low level offenders,

1247
01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:14,520
Speaker 1: and the d o J report kind of uses a

1248
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:16,800
Speaker 1: little bit of weasel language on this fact, but one

1249
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:19,720
Speaker 1: of the things that revealed is that one d percent

1250
01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:22,920
Speaker 1: of the people maimed by Ferguson police dogs were black.

1251
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:29,560
Speaker 1: See this, like, how what am I trying to say

1252
01:07:29,640 --> 01:07:33,320
Speaker 1: right now? What gets right? What gets under my skin

1253
01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:39,640
Speaker 1: in discussions of this is that it sounds so preposterous

1254
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:44,120
Speaker 1: that people say, where alarm is? We're just making this

1255
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:46,439
Speaker 1: stuff up. You know, that was a long time ago.

1256
01:07:46,560 --> 01:07:48,800
Speaker 1: It's all in your head, and it's and you like,

1257
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:53,720
Speaker 1: so after a while you actually start thinking, you know,

1258
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:56,720
Speaker 1: maybe I am crazy, maybe it is in my head.

1259
01:07:56,960 --> 01:07:58,960
Speaker 1: And then you're just like and then you look at

1260
01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:01,760
Speaker 1: your other your other black friends, and you like, am

1261
01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:04,120
Speaker 1: I tripping? Or did this happen? And they're like, no,

1262
01:08:04,240 --> 01:08:06,080
Speaker 1: it kind of happened to me too. And then you're like,

1263
01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:08,360
Speaker 1: how about the other fucking side of the country. Did

1264
01:08:08,360 --> 01:08:11,720
Speaker 1: it happen to you all too? And you're just like yeah.

1265
01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:14,200
Speaker 1: So then when you and then when the report comes out,

1266
01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:17,600
Speaker 1: You're just like, guys, like I'm telling you, I'm not crazy.

1267
01:08:18,040 --> 01:08:21,120
Speaker 1: I'm telling you this is happening, you know, And I

1268
01:08:21,160 --> 01:08:23,240
Speaker 1: still got to convince you. And I'm like, what do

1269
01:08:23,240 --> 01:08:26,400
Speaker 1: you what do many receipts do you need? And it

1270
01:08:26,400 --> 01:08:29,280
Speaker 1: it didn't convince fifteen this comes out and it's another

1271
01:08:29,400 --> 01:08:33,080
Speaker 1: like people seem more convinced now after everything has happened,

1272
01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:34,960
Speaker 1: but like it took like five years after this report

1273
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:37,000
Speaker 1: came out, and there was really you know, there was

1274
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:40,240
Speaker 1: an uproar over the murder of Michael Brown, obviously, um,

1275
01:08:40,280 --> 01:08:42,559
Speaker 1: but there was the fucking the fact that the fact

1276
01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:45,639
Speaker 1: that a police department formed out of a slave patrol

1277
01:08:45,680 --> 01:08:48,040
Speaker 1: that used dogs too maim black people in order to

1278
01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:52,439
Speaker 1: terrorize them was two hundred years later using dogs to

1279
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:54,760
Speaker 1: name only black people in order to tear the fact

1280
01:08:54,800 --> 01:08:58,400
Speaker 1: that that was happening. Like that, it was like yeah,

1281
01:08:58,439 --> 01:08:59,800
Speaker 1: and then it was out of the zeitgeist. And then

1282
01:08:59,800 --> 01:09:01,360
Speaker 1: it was out of the guys that I was gonna say,

1283
01:09:01,400 --> 01:09:03,120
Speaker 1: then it's gone out as I guys, and it's and

1284
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:05,080
Speaker 1: that's the other thing that's so hard about like and

1285
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:07,439
Speaker 1: im and I'm critiquing myself period. I'm taking all of

1286
01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:12,920
Speaker 1: us period is like when when the cameras leave, Like

1287
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:16,400
Speaker 1: how hard it is to keep the energy up to say, look, listen,

1288
01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:18,160
Speaker 1: I know it's a high. It was a high, like

1289
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:22,360
Speaker 1: you know, high profile case. But it's not done, you

1290
01:09:22,400 --> 01:09:24,400
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. And now that it's back, Okay,

1291
01:09:24,400 --> 01:09:26,599
Speaker 1: it's a year later, y'all forgot about my ground because

1292
01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:29,120
Speaker 1: you onto the next hashtag. But I'm like, no, seriously,

1293
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:31,960
Speaker 1: we didn't make this up, Like here's the evidence, Like

1294
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:34,720
Speaker 1: I'm telling you that's what happened. And it's like how

1295
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:39,320
Speaker 1: it's you. You You find yourself like just exhausted as

1296
01:09:39,360 --> 01:09:42,519
Speaker 1: to go, like I just no matter how many receipts

1297
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:48,160
Speaker 1: I give you, Like you know what I'm saying, Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1298
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:50,960
Speaker 1: that's speaking of receipts. I do feel like I need

1299
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:53,479
Speaker 1: to quote from the New Yorker here and there. They

1300
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:55,559
Speaker 1: did do a pretty good article kind of digging into

1301
01:09:55,560 --> 01:09:57,519
Speaker 1: the use of these these dogs, So I do want

1302
01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:01,000
Speaker 1: to credit them for that. They didn't like they you know,

1303
01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:06,679
Speaker 1: they put out an article which isn't nothing um better

1304
01:10:06,720 --> 01:10:09,840
Speaker 1: than not? Yeah right? Like yeah. In one account, a

1305
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:12,320
Speaker 1: dog was sent after an unarmed sixteen year old who

1306
01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:14,960
Speaker 1: was also tazered. The electric shock of that weapon partially

1307
01:10:14,960 --> 01:10:17,040
Speaker 1: paralyzes a person. If that were to happen while a

1308
01:10:17,120 --> 01:10:18,960
Speaker 1: dog was tearing at your arms and legs, all you

1309
01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:22,400
Speaker 1: could do would be to watch in immobilized horror. Another

1310
01:10:22,479 --> 01:10:26,040
Speaker 1: case involved four police officers, including a canine handler, trapping

1311
01:10:26,080 --> 01:10:28,760
Speaker 1: an unarmed fourteen year old in an abandoned basement. The

1312
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:32,320
Speaker 1: crime trespassing. The Department of Justice report recounts what the

1313
01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:34,760
Speaker 1: boy says happened to him when he saw the dog

1314
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:36,439
Speaker 1: at the top of the steps. He turned to run,

1315
01:10:36,479 --> 01:10:38,360
Speaker 1: but the dog quickly bit him on the ankle and

1316
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:40,439
Speaker 1: then the thigh, causing him to fall to the floor.

1317
01:10:40,720 --> 01:10:42,599
Speaker 1: The dog was about to bite his face or neck,

1318
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:44,559
Speaker 1: but instead got his left arm, which the boy had

1319
01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:48,040
Speaker 1: raised to protect himself. FPD officers struck him while he

1320
01:10:48,080 --> 01:10:50,080
Speaker 1: was on the ground, one of them putting a boot

1321
01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:52,439
Speaker 1: on the side of his head. He recalled the officers

1322
01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:58,680
Speaker 1: laughing about the incident afterward. Ah, the poison blue. The

1323
01:10:58,760 --> 01:11:02,400
Speaker 1: Boys in Blue had a Boys in Blue man. Yeah,

1324
01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:08,639
Speaker 1: you just man, It's like how many how many bad

1325
01:11:08,680 --> 01:11:11,200
Speaker 1: apples you need before you start like checking the orchard?

1326
01:11:11,439 --> 01:11:14,200
Speaker 1: Like yeah, what if the soil is bad? Like how

1327
01:11:14,439 --> 01:11:17,240
Speaker 1: nobody's like you keep talking about these your tree keep

1328
01:11:17,240 --> 01:11:20,200
Speaker 1: producing bad fruit like and you keep blaming like some

1329
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:23,040
Speaker 1: wrong with your tree man. All these apples are just

1330
01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:25,960
Speaker 1: filled with piss, Like what happened all the apples? Why

1331
01:11:25,960 --> 01:11:28,240
Speaker 1: are the all the apples would piss? That's just one

1332
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:29,880
Speaker 1: then why you Well, if it's just why are you

1333
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:33,280
Speaker 1: putting it in a bucket? Where were in these apples?

1334
01:11:33,439 --> 01:11:36,280
Speaker 1: Why do you keep throwing apples? Then? I mean we

1335
01:11:36,360 --> 01:11:38,960
Speaker 1: get rid of the orchard. It's a bad appard like

1336
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:45,680
Speaker 1: it makes sense to me, yeah, yep. So again, the

1337
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:48,240
Speaker 1: use of Ferguson police dogs made very little of a

1338
01:11:48,280 --> 01:11:50,680
Speaker 1: splash when it was revealed, even though we get of

1339
01:11:50,720 --> 01:11:53,439
Speaker 1: the individuals named by Ferguson police dogs were black, and

1340
01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:56,559
Speaker 1: of individuals that the Ferguson Police did violence too in

1341
01:11:56,600 --> 01:12:00,000
Speaker 1: general were black. Names of canine officers and their supervisors

1342
01:12:00,040 --> 01:12:02,559
Speaker 1: were not revealed in the report. That Department of Justice

1343
01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:04,600
Speaker 1: report on the Ferguson p D made one hundred and

1344
01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:07,679
Speaker 1: thirty seven corrective recommendations on how the department could fix

1345
01:12:07,720 --> 01:12:10,559
Speaker 1: its violent behavior. Only one of those reforms dealt with

1346
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:14,639
Speaker 1: canine violence, suggesting that the police department require on site

1347
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:19,040
Speaker 1: supervisory approval before allowing a canine officer to main people.

1348
01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:27,599
Speaker 1: It's like, you got cool, I bite this black guy? Okay, yeah,

1349
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:30,160
Speaker 1: I want to have a dog tear at the flesh

1350
01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:34,599
Speaker 1: of this fourteen year old? Is that cool? That's all right? Glad?

1351
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:40,320
Speaker 1: We put it. Put this this listen. So, as of today,

1352
01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:44,320
Speaker 1: Ferguson police still use dogs to control suspects. Most Ferguson

1353
01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:46,800
Speaker 1: officers are white. Virtually all the people they arrest and

1354
01:12:46,840 --> 01:12:50,040
Speaker 1: detain are black. No Ferguson officer has yet been tried

1355
01:12:50,160 --> 01:12:54,200
Speaker 1: or fired for using police dogs to brutalize citizens. Professor

1356
01:12:54,280 --> 01:12:58,360
Speaker 1: Larry Sprule notes quote the officer's procedural avoidance of criminal

1357
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:01,120
Speaker 1: liability for death and torture of black citizens was not

1358
01:13:01,240 --> 01:13:07,599
Speaker 1: dissimilar to slave patroller's Antebellum indemnity for similar violence yep.

1359
01:13:08,800 --> 01:13:11,479
Speaker 1: In his paper on Negro dogs and the Ferguson Police,

1360
01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:15,360
Speaker 1: Professor Sproul sites to other academics Williams and Murphy, who

1361
01:13:15,360 --> 01:13:18,280
Speaker 1: wrote a nine paper on the transition from slave patrols

1362
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:21,759
Speaker 1: to police departments. Williams and Murphy noted, quote, the legal

1363
01:13:21,880 --> 01:13:25,160
Speaker 1: order sustained slavery, segregation, and discrimination from most of our

1364
01:13:25,240 --> 01:13:27,439
Speaker 1: nation's history, and the fact that the police were bound

1365
01:13:27,439 --> 01:13:30,200
Speaker 1: to uphold that order set a pattern for police behavior

1366
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:33,840
Speaker 1: and attitudes towards minority communities that have persisted until the

1367
01:13:33,880 --> 01:13:37,080
Speaker 1: present day. That pattern includes the idea that minorities have

1368
01:13:37,120 --> 01:13:39,479
Speaker 1: fewer civil rights, that the task of police is to

1369
01:13:39,560 --> 01:13:41,880
Speaker 1: keep them under control, and that the police have little

1370
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:47,240
Speaker 1: responsibility for protecting them from crime within their communities. Oh god,

1371
01:13:47,560 --> 01:13:53,840
Speaker 1: there we go. Oh my god. Yep, maybe they can

1372
01:13:53,840 --> 01:13:56,400
Speaker 1: throw me one of those one of those white claws.

1373
01:13:59,360 --> 01:14:02,479
Speaker 1: There was I missed this rally, but there was apparently

1374
01:14:02,479 --> 01:14:04,160
Speaker 1: a rally where some of the anti for kids. Do

1375
01:14:04,240 --> 01:14:06,679
Speaker 1: you remember there was that that pepsi ad with them

1376
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:11,080
Speaker 1: Jenner where she hands a pepsi to a cop like

1377
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:13,519
Speaker 1: right after that. Add a bunch of those like kids

1378
01:14:13,960 --> 01:14:15,880
Speaker 1: showed up at this. I think it was a made

1379
01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:18,880
Speaker 1: a protest with like like crates of pepsi and just

1380
01:14:18,920 --> 01:14:28,000
Speaker 1: started chucking them at the cops. I love it. Uh yeah,

1381
01:14:28,479 --> 01:14:31,320
Speaker 1: oh my god, dude, when you know what I give

1382
01:14:31,360 --> 01:14:33,120
Speaker 1: it to an ANTIFA kids, Man, they got sense. It's

1383
01:14:33,120 --> 01:14:38,400
Speaker 1: a humor died like y'all funny. You know what I'm saying. Yeah,

1384
01:14:38,439 --> 01:14:41,719
Speaker 1: it's it's I you know it. It's it's been interesting

1385
01:14:41,760 --> 01:14:44,439
Speaker 1: because like there's all this talk of like like Portland's

1386
01:14:44,439 --> 01:14:46,959
Speaker 1: has like a big anti fascist sort of activist community,

1387
01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:48,680
Speaker 1: but like with all the talk that there is with

1388
01:14:48,760 --> 01:14:51,759
Speaker 1: from the President about antifa at these protests, they've really

1389
01:14:51,800 --> 01:14:54,400
Speaker 1: taken a backseat. Like they have not been driving the

1390
01:14:54,439 --> 01:14:58,160
Speaker 1: fucking bus here. Yeah, I can tell you that much. Um.

1391
01:14:58,400 --> 01:15:01,360
Speaker 1: And it's kind of obvious because I'm like in some ways,

1392
01:15:01,479 --> 01:15:04,880
Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of the anti fascist dudes,

1393
01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:07,559
Speaker 1: like they gotta they have a style. There's like an

1394
01:15:07,560 --> 01:15:11,519
Speaker 1: aesthetic to what they do that like, and I know

1395
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:13,200
Speaker 1: it's a weird way to say it, but I feel

1396
01:15:13,200 --> 01:15:15,639
Speaker 1: like I go, oh, yeah, that's that's kind of their flavor,

1397
01:15:15,840 --> 01:15:19,360
Speaker 1: you know. I'm like, this ain't that. Yeah, it's just

1398
01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:23,760
Speaker 1: something else, you know. Yeah. It's like when you see, yeah,

1399
01:15:23,760 --> 01:15:27,360
Speaker 1: when you see like the graffiti that says like blacks rule,

1400
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:30,360
Speaker 1: I'm like, black man, did not write that, did not

1401
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:35,599
Speaker 1: write that. That's ridiculous. Okay. The flip side of that

1402
01:15:35,720 --> 01:15:38,439
Speaker 1: was like in Portland on two Fridays ago, I think

1403
01:15:38,479 --> 01:15:40,960
Speaker 1: we had, um, you know, a crowd marched to the

1404
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:43,160
Speaker 1: Justice Center and then people just started sucking it up

1405
01:15:43,200 --> 01:15:45,559
Speaker 1: like breaking all the windows, they lit some fires, like

1406
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:47,360
Speaker 1: and it was one of it was very obvious, I

1407
01:15:47,360 --> 01:15:49,760
Speaker 1: think to everyone who knew the city, like oh, because

1408
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:52,160
Speaker 1: this was like the day after the Precinct in Minneapolis

1409
01:15:52,160 --> 01:15:54,680
Speaker 1: was burned, and I was like, yeah, that justice center up,

1410
01:15:55,200 --> 01:15:57,600
Speaker 1: it's going down. Yeah, And there was like it was

1411
01:15:57,640 --> 01:16:00,240
Speaker 1: blamed a lot on like like white anarchists kids, Like yeah,

1412
01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:01,800
Speaker 1: there were definitely some of those folks doing it, but

1413
01:16:01,880 --> 01:16:04,120
Speaker 1: like it was a pretty diverse crowd that sucked up

1414
01:16:04,120 --> 01:16:08,639
Speaker 1: the justice It's not yeah, you know, life in history

1415
01:16:08,720 --> 01:16:11,559
Speaker 1: is not so compartmentalized that you could just be like

1416
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:13,759
Speaker 1: this happened, and this happened, and that group of people

1417
01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:16,519
Speaker 1: by it sales did the thing. Yeah, a lot of

1418
01:16:16,560 --> 01:16:22,920
Speaker 1: folks wanted to get into that justice center and yeah,

1419
01:16:23,120 --> 01:16:26,320
Speaker 1: um so properly. That is episode one, and again this

1420
01:16:26,400 --> 01:16:28,120
Speaker 1: is you know, the Slave Slave but a lot of

1421
01:16:28,240 --> 01:16:30,640
Speaker 1: you know this pretty much every episode is going to

1422
01:16:30,720 --> 01:16:32,799
Speaker 1: deal with racism because it's kind of central to policing.

1423
01:16:32,800 --> 01:16:35,400
Speaker 1: But next episode we're gonna be talking about sort of

1424
01:16:35,439 --> 01:16:38,200
Speaker 1: policing more in the North and and kind of policing

1425
01:16:38,320 --> 01:16:41,840
Speaker 1: against against people we consider white, but who at the

1426
01:16:41,880 --> 01:16:44,920
Speaker 1: time the people who controlled the police might not necessarily

1427
01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:48,160
Speaker 1: have considered white. You know. That's that's Oh, I can't

1428
01:16:48,160 --> 01:16:50,479
Speaker 1: wait for this one because like at some point, man,

1429
01:16:50,720 --> 01:16:53,960
Speaker 1: I just feel like I know my work's gonna call

1430
01:16:54,040 --> 01:16:58,600
Speaker 1: me to do a some sort of deep dive in

1431
01:16:58,640 --> 01:17:03,479
Speaker 1: the construction of like pan ethnic terms like black or

1432
01:17:03,560 --> 01:17:06,439
Speaker 1: white and what the hell that means? Like, you know,

1433
01:17:06,680 --> 01:17:10,519
Speaker 1: even even hearing like the who is the Milo boy?

1434
01:17:10,600 --> 01:17:14,160
Speaker 1: What was his name? Milo? Yeah? Whatever his name is

1435
01:17:14,560 --> 01:17:18,200
Speaker 1: him talking about like this our country was made for

1436
01:17:18,800 --> 01:17:23,320
Speaker 1: the advancement of white men, And I'm like, no, wasn't,

1437
01:17:23,400 --> 01:17:25,400
Speaker 1: because there was no such thing as white man when

1438
01:17:25,479 --> 01:17:28,400
Speaker 1: y'all got here, and you you ain't even you don't

1439
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:30,200
Speaker 1: even want the Irish here. That's the northern part of

1440
01:17:30,200 --> 01:17:32,599
Speaker 1: the same island, for crying out loud, so like you're

1441
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:34,600
Speaker 1: looking at them, you don't think it's still people in

1442
01:17:34,640 --> 01:17:37,240
Speaker 1: this world that don't think Italians are white, Like I

1443
01:17:37,360 --> 01:17:39,560
Speaker 1: just what the hell are you talking about? You know

1444
01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:41,840
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Like so you don't even know what

1445
01:17:41,880 --> 01:17:45,840
Speaker 1: white means? You know? So I love what you're gonna

1446
01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:47,599
Speaker 1: go to next, because just like you have to remember

1447
01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:51,160
Speaker 1: again it's a construct like y'all made y'all made that up.

1448
01:17:51,720 --> 01:17:54,360
Speaker 1: So we'll talk about that in part two. Prop you

1449
01:17:54,360 --> 01:17:58,320
Speaker 1: want to plug some plugules before we roll out? Man, Yeah,

1450
01:17:58,400 --> 01:18:02,120
Speaker 1: so yeah, everything for me, it's prop hip Hop uh

1451
01:18:02,439 --> 01:18:05,240
Speaker 1: dot com that's my app mentioned, just all of it.

1452
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:08,160
Speaker 1: Prop hip Hop doing a fun thing on Friday's called

1453
01:18:08,200 --> 01:18:12,439
Speaker 1: poor Gami Friday's where I basically just make a make

1454
01:18:12,479 --> 01:18:16,040
Speaker 1: a single cup of like pour over coffee with a

1455
01:18:16,080 --> 01:18:19,920
Speaker 1: buddy on Instagram and we feature like yeah, and we

1456
01:18:19,960 --> 01:18:24,360
Speaker 1: feature like a local roaster, uh from wherever, like offer

1457
01:18:24,439 --> 01:18:28,440
Speaker 1: discounts and like. And since since this last you know, uprising,

1458
01:18:28,439 --> 01:18:32,280
Speaker 1: we've been featuring like coffee roasters you know, owned by

1459
01:18:32,320 --> 01:18:36,040
Speaker 1: by persons of color. Um did just support just support

1460
01:18:36,080 --> 01:18:38,040
Speaker 1: good coffee, you know what I'm saying. So that's kind

1461
01:18:38,080 --> 01:18:39,800
Speaker 1: of a fun thing. I'd i'd plug on this one.

1462
01:18:39,840 --> 01:18:41,479
Speaker 1: Since I get to come back three times, I get

1463
01:18:41,520 --> 01:18:46,200
Speaker 1: to pick what I'm gonna plug, you know. Yeah, yeah awesome. Yeah,

1464
01:18:46,200 --> 01:18:49,599
Speaker 1: Well check that out. Check out Prop and his his

1465
01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:54,240
Speaker 1: wonderful music on his YouTube channel. Um and uh what

1466
01:18:54,360 --> 01:18:58,479
Speaker 1: propaganda people should know if they look for something at it. Yeah. Also,

1467
01:18:58,520 --> 01:19:00,200
Speaker 1: you know what, actually I would say, you know what,

1468
01:19:00,240 --> 01:19:02,880
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that up, So let me save

1469
01:19:03,600 --> 01:19:06,479
Speaker 1: all y'all the d m s you're gonna give me. Okay,

1470
01:19:08,320 --> 01:19:11,400
Speaker 1: at some point, I don't already answered the question you

1471
01:19:11,520 --> 01:19:14,639
Speaker 1: find at want a personal answer for in one of

1472
01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:18,880
Speaker 1: these videos or interviews, so like, so just you know,

1473
01:19:19,360 --> 01:19:24,120
Speaker 1: check the YouTube. Yeah, I'm saying, uh, just just it's

1474
01:19:24,240 --> 01:19:30,320
Speaker 1: it's probably there. We at some point we've talked about it.

1475
01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:32,800
Speaker 1: So I'm just just just go ahead and put that out,

1476
01:19:34,439 --> 01:19:37,400
Speaker 1: all right, folks. Um, Well we will be back like

1477
01:19:37,520 --> 01:19:40,120
Speaker 1: sucking four more times at least to talk about more

1478
01:19:40,160 --> 01:19:44,519
Speaker 1: times American police, um and where they came from. So

1479
01:19:44,600 --> 01:19:47,479
Speaker 1: I hope everybody enjoys this series, UM, and I hope

1480
01:19:48,080 --> 01:19:51,439
Speaker 1: folks pass it along to um friends and family who

1481
01:19:51,680 --> 01:19:55,200
Speaker 1: might uh think that policing just needs a little bit alike.

1482
01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:58,560
Speaker 1: Just gotta like just gotta like off its face and

1483
01:19:58,560 --> 01:20:01,479
Speaker 1: we'll be back. We'll be fine. You can't go back

1484
01:20:01,520 --> 01:20:05,280
Speaker 1: to it being good. It was always ship rethink this thing,

1485
01:20:05,360 --> 01:20:07,880
Speaker 1: you know, and like and and and I mean, I'm

1486
01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:09,320
Speaker 1: gonna come back to this a bunch of times in

1487
01:20:09,439 --> 01:20:10,720
Speaker 1: this episode, got it, And I'm gonna come back to

1488
01:20:10,720 --> 01:20:12,800
Speaker 1: this a bunch of times. But like I hope people

1489
01:20:12,840 --> 01:20:17,400
Speaker 1: are hearing that, like almost not almost literally, all of

1490
01:20:17,439 --> 01:20:22,720
Speaker 1: our institutions we just made them up, like they're made up,

1491
01:20:23,080 --> 01:20:25,000
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, at some point in time

1492
01:20:25,160 --> 01:20:27,680
Speaker 1: we made they don't exist in nature like we made

1493
01:20:27,720 --> 01:20:31,040
Speaker 1: them up. So if you have a bad idea in

1494
01:20:31,080 --> 01:20:34,000
Speaker 1: any other part of your life, you stop doing the

1495
01:20:34,040 --> 01:20:38,280
Speaker 1: bad idea and you try to make a better one. Yeah,

1496
01:20:38,400 --> 01:20:40,920
Speaker 1: we can. We can have a society where like, if

1497
01:20:40,920 --> 01:20:43,640
Speaker 1: someone commits murder, there's somebody who's job at is to

1498
01:20:43,720 --> 01:20:46,000
Speaker 1: like figure out who did that and like make sure

1499
01:20:46,040 --> 01:20:48,360
Speaker 1: they don't get to keep doing. We we can have

1500
01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:52,400
Speaker 1: that we don't have. We can have that without having

1501
01:20:52,400 --> 01:20:54,960
Speaker 1: a dude who feels empowered to choke a man for

1502
01:20:55,040 --> 01:20:58,040
Speaker 1: nine minutes. We have to have You don't have to

1503
01:20:58,120 --> 01:21:00,519
Speaker 1: have both. You mean to tell me that thought has

1504
01:21:00,560 --> 01:21:03,680
Speaker 1: never crossed your mind that the person next takes care

1505
01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:07,880
Speaker 1: it is homeless guy for loitering, who's just by virtue

1506
01:21:07,920 --> 01:21:12,320
Speaker 1: of his existence is breaking it all. And the same

1507
01:21:12,400 --> 01:21:15,400
Speaker 1: guy and the same tool needs to deal with the

1508
01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:17,920
Speaker 1: acts murderer like you. You mean to tell me that

1509
01:21:17,920 --> 01:21:23,880
Speaker 1: that takes the same people. Yeah, Like countries that have

1510
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:26,720
Speaker 1: people who like make sure there aren't drunk drivers on

1511
01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:29,439
Speaker 1: the road, and the people who do that job don't

1512
01:21:29,720 --> 01:21:33,120
Speaker 1: have guns and don't get to like throw people in

1513
01:21:33,200 --> 01:21:35,839
Speaker 1: prison and ruin their lives and search them for drugs

1514
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:38,639
Speaker 1: and plant drugs on them, Like you don't you can

1515
01:21:38,680 --> 01:21:40,559
Speaker 1: have people whose job is like, yeah, we should make sure,

1516
01:21:40,680 --> 01:21:42,599
Speaker 1: you know, we should have some eyes on traffic because

1517
01:21:42,640 --> 01:21:44,880
Speaker 1: like that's that's a big thing. Like somebody should be

1518
01:21:44,920 --> 01:21:48,400
Speaker 1: like keep an eye on that ship without the other stuff.

1519
01:21:48,960 --> 01:21:52,080
Speaker 1: Legally go into a woman's house while she's sleeping and

1520
01:21:52,160 --> 01:21:55,120
Speaker 1: murder her. Maybe we don't need no knock raids at

1521
01:21:55,120 --> 01:21:58,639
Speaker 1: all for any reason. That's a bad idea, Like why

1522
01:21:58,800 --> 01:22:03,320
Speaker 1: like who just keeps? Who just holds onto bad ideas?

1523
01:22:03,360 --> 01:22:05,479
Speaker 1: Just like it's a bad idea, Like let's just think

1524
01:22:05,479 --> 01:22:09,559
Speaker 1: of another one. Yeah, shame we can't change. Well yeah,

1525
01:22:09,720 --> 01:22:13,479
Speaker 1: right for more bad ideas, come back on on Thursday.

1526
01:22:13,520 --> 01:22:17,000
Speaker 1: Well we'll talk about um, talk more about cops. Yeah,

1527
01:22:17,439 --> 01:22:24,679
Speaker 1: all right, that's us for now. Goodbye Behind the Police

1528
01:22:24,720 --> 01:22:27,160
Speaker 1: is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts

1529
01:22:27,160 --> 01:22:29,559
Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app,

1530
01:22:29,720 --> 01:22:33,040
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.