WEBVTT - Sending Students From Diverse Backgrounds to Selective Colleges 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:04.040 You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:08.840 Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. So you're listening to Bloomberg 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:11.800 Business Week on Carol Master along with Jason Kelly and 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:14.160 one of the great dividers in our society. We have 0:00:14.240 --> 0:00:18.000 definitely talked about this over the last few hours. M 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:21.240 is education and higher education. Working to reduce that gap 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:25.079 is the Posse Foundation. It provides scholarships and partners with 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:29.040 schools and universities, founded back in eighteen not eighteen, nineteen 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:33.080 eighty nine and really finds those public high school students 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:36.760 with extraordinary academic and leadership potential who may be overlooked 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:41.519 by traditional college selection processes. Debor Beale is president and 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:44.479 founder of the nonprofit the Posse Foundation. She joins us 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:47.040 on the phone in New York City. Debora, so delighted 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:53.720 to have almost that would be a miracle. Yeah, exactly. 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:56.880 You shouldn't. You should be in lots of other businesses too. 0:00:56.920 --> 0:01:00.680 If you can pull off stories you could to tell us. 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:03.880 Um I did a brief introduction of who you are, 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:06.920 but just share with our audience. Michael Ainslie has talked 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:08.680 about you. He's been a guest on our show. I 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:11.000 know he's a member of your board, but has talked 0:01:11.040 --> 0:01:13.120 about the great work that you do. So give us 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:16.800 a fuller picture if you would. Well, I I thanks 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:19.720 for having me, first of all, and you know, I 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:22.280 think the easiest way to understand what posse is about 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:25.200 is to explain how it got its name. Um, because 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:28.400 possey is an unusual name for a program. And in 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:32.000 the nineteen eighties there was a student who had dropped 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:34.840 out of college and he said, I never would have 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:38.240 dropped out if I had my posse with me. And 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:41.399 we thought, well, that's a brilliant idea, right, why not 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:45.280 send a team of students a posse together to college? 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:46.679 And that way, if you grew up in the Bronx 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:49.440 and you ended up in Middlebury, Ver month, you'd be 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:53.120 a little less likely to say I'm I'm leaving. So 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:55.520 how does it work? How do you put that all together? 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:58.160 Because it seems like a good idea. I mean, I 0:01:58.200 --> 0:01:59.920 don't think anybody would argue it was like, yeah, that 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:03.320 makes total sense. But I can't imagine that it's that 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:06.200 easy to pull off, or is it? Right now? It's 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:09.000 a great question because you know, and especially now, we 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:11.799 could talk a little bit about what the pandemic has 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:15.239 done to programs like ours, But you know, POSSEY evolved 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:18.519 over the years and we've become, you know, really one 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:22.920 of the most unique college success, diversity and leadership programs 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:28.240 in the entire country. We probably interview about seventeen thousand 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:32.240 students a year and these it's a lot, and we 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:35.640 we picked seven hundred. So these are young people that 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:39.600 are nominated by high schools and community based organizations, people 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:42.919 who really know the students, UM, and we say, can 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:47.480 you please nominate someone who is brilliant and motivated to 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:50.640 do big things in the world, but who might be missed, 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:54.080 as you said earlier, by traditional admissions measures that focused 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:58.440 historically on test scores and high school ranking. UM. So 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:01.560 we've been around thirty one years doing this thing called 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:07.160 the Dynamic Assessment Process our our alternative way of finding talents. UM. 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:10.839 We're operating out of ten cities. This fall, we will 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:15.919 take our ten thousand POSSE scholar, which I can't even believe. 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:18.519 And what's amazing is they've won over one and a 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:22.120 half billion dollars in scholarships from our partner colleges and 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:27.040 universities and it works. They graduated rates of over and 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:29.640 they go on to become leaders. We we want to 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:33.119 see them as ceo s and you know, senators and 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:36.720 college presidents. We hope that they will represent a new 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:39.560 kind of leadership out there. Well, you have a college 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:42.520 president in your lum ranks, don't you. I know. I 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:44.280 love telling her story and I know you're going to 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:48.040 have her on the show. We're talking about the president 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:51.160 of Ithaca College. Yeah, do you want to hear her? 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:53.280 The way I like to talk about shirl is is 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:56.080 because she was just a superstar. I knew her when 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:59.880 when she was only fourteen years old she becomes a 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:02.760 member of the First Posse. Shirley is the Dominican kid 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:04.960 who grew up in Brooklyn. Her her dad drove a 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:08.480 yellow taxi in New York. Um and she didn't have 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:11.880 the best test course, and I'll tell you she was 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:15.440 not thinking about going to Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tennessee. 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:19.440 So she gets into the first Posse and it's a 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:22.800 pilot program. We're testing out the idea and it was 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:28.039 incredibly successful. Shirley graduated in four years with honors. She 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:30.720 went on to get her doctorate in clinical psychology from 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:34.400 Duke University. She became the dean of the College at Middlebury, 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:38.080 and a couple of years ago, Shirley became the president 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:42.320 of Ithaca College. She is the first Dominican American to 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:45.120 be president of a four year college in the United States. 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:50.240 And that's what we're talking about, finding talent, connecting that 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:54.600 talent to these great institutions of higher education so they 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:57.479 can go lead. We need them, We really need them leading. 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:01.240 We need people who represent the versity of this country. 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:02.919 You know, I thought it was interesting what you said 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:06.560 you look for brilliant and motivated students, and I feel like, 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:10.640 you know, there are some students out there, whether it's 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:13.720 their home life, what they're born into, you know, just 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:16.719 there are a lot of odds stacked against them that 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:19.520 don't give them an opportunity to necessarily be motivated. And 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:23.200 I do wonder against the backdrop of everything that's going on, 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:26.640 especially the last three weeks um you know, we're looking 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:29.320 at racism in America, and I do wonder, you know, 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:32.400 how do we make it so that more students feel 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:36.600 motivated and have those opportunities to shine and be brilliant. 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:40.120 I don't think there's any shortage of motivated students. I 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:43.920 think you're raising a great point. You know, we're we're 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:48.960 taking a look at our own institutionalized racism in this 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:51.640 country in a way that we have not focused on 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:56.440 it before. You know, we have a history that shames 0:05:56.520 --> 0:06:00.680 this country of racism. And you know a lot of 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:03.920 people are saying, is look, what's happened with George Floyd 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:07.920 is not new, but it has garnered the attention of 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:11.840 the American people in a way that's powerful and and 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:14.719 it's dominating the news in a in a way that 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:17.840 it should be. In a program like Posse is saying, 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:21.039 come on, you know, there's all these young people out 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:25.400 there who are very motivated to go succeed in their lives, 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:28.800 have huge, big dreams, and I think now, you know, 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:31.320 maybe this is a wake up call that we've we've 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:34.440 got to make significant change in how we operate as 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:37.279 a nation. Let's get back to our conversation with Deborah Deal, President, 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:39.719 founder of the Posse Foundation, joining us on the phone 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:43.960 from New York. So, Deborah, I love the context that 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:47.520 you give us earlier about the Posse Foundation and what 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:51.039 it does. I've got to ask you, as someone who 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:54.520 is about to have. I believe you said your posse 0:06:54.640 --> 0:07:01.000 member posse scholarship. What is different about higher education as 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:03.920 we go into this fall because Carol and I both 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:07.640 have high school juniors. Obviously, they are you know, very 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:09.960 privileged high school juniors, so they're not facing a lot 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:12.080 of the things that a lot of the kids you're 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:15.040 working with are. But they are anxious, as are their 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:19.760 classmates of you know, various socioeconomic backgrounds about what college 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:22.320 looks like. And I wonder what you're hearing and thinking 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:26.440 about that. Yeah, and that's on so many you know 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:29.320 parents minds to what's going to happen in the fall. 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:32.080 And you know, I also sit on the board at BRANDI, 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:37.200 so I have this interesting perspective, you know, bandage points. Yeah, 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:41.480 we are worried about what's going to happen with the 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:46.480 pandemic obviously, and schools sent students home early UM and 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:49.280 then really didn't have them back on campus. So young 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:54.920 people were getting their curriculum through remote classes and that 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:58.280 may continue. So many schools are thinking about some kind 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:03.120 of hybrid re reopening. You can ask surely when you 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:06.640 interview her about Ithaca, which is one of the few 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:10.720 schools that's planning to just completely reopen UM in the fall. 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:13.760 But many schools are thinking about having some students back 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:17.560 on campus or doing alternating classes, you know, where they 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:20.040 where half the students go to class one day and 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:22.440 then the others another day. But all of this is 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:26.240 really complicated and and they're also you know, we have 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:29.720 to remember that colleges and universities have been the home 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:33.440 to students who are involved and engaged in the world. 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:37.079 And they're talking about UM racism now in a way 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:42.040 that's UM in the front of the discussion. UM campuses 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:45.240 or places where students can can talk about those things 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:48.840 and can protest and can make their voices heard. So 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:51.920 there's a lot going on for in hire IT right now. 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:56.079 These institutions are really afraid about what's happening with the economy, 0:08:56.559 --> 0:08:59.320 you know, with forty million people who have filed for 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:03.200 unemployment it UM, and we're watching what's happening with the 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:07.720 stock market. UM. The endowments are affected at these institutions. 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:10.400 They're worried about their financial aid budgets and how they're 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:12.439 going to cover all of the financial aid they need 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:15.800 to cover. They're worried about their revenues, you know, income 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:20.239 from tuition paying students, international students who may not be 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:22.920 coming to the United States. Um, I mean, I know 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:26.160 I'm giving you a long list of things. You're all 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:29.960 all their effects and it's important. Well, yeah, absolutely, And 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:32.960 you do wonder if there is an economic downturn, you know, 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:35.319 for those who are graduating, what kind of job market 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:37.600 do they come into and do they get lost? You know, 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:39.600 we've we've done a lot of stories, you know, the 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:42.640 young population that came off the financial crisis where they 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:45.080 got kind of stuck in jobs because there was just 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:48.320 nowhere to go. And you do wonder what this does 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:51.880 to the momentum kind of coming off of you know, 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:54.679 a college or you know a great college and getting 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:58.120 a great degree. You know what happens to that momentum. Oh, 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:00.600 you're so right. I mean you're asking the exact great question. 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:03.720 And you know, I run a nonprofit that's that is 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.920 um pretty well resourced. But you know, we're worrying and 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:10.559 we've depend so much on our donors. But there are 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:13.760 many nonprofits and for young people who are coming out 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:17.160 of college and who are you know, civically minded, a 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:19.319 lot of nonprofits are worried that they're going to close 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:21.440 their doors. You know, there's not going to be enough 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:25.240 money for them to survive. It's just a scary time 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:28.280 in that way. But I I believe we will rally, 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:33.040 and so Debora, just to sort of round out the 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:36.240 conversation and take it back to the Posse Foundation, I mean, 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:39.680 what have you learned, you know over these you know, 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:43.320 thousands and thousands of kids that you've put together into 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:46.720 these polics, Like, how is the program different now? What 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:50.000 are you doing differently now? Uh? And especially in light 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:51.960 of everything that's going on in the world than when 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:57.000 you started. You know, we're constantly evolving. We are a 0:10:57.120 --> 0:11:02.720 diversity in leadership organization. UM. You know, we we were 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:07.040 often talking from the beginning about what anti racist work 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:10.760 looks like when you are a multi racial UM institution 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:13.800 that's fighting it. And we're specifically now talking about anti 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:17.600 black racism in this country. UM. And so we even 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:20.040 though we've been working on this for a long time, 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:23.079 we know that we need to bring in UM more 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:28.240 speakers and do more training for our own staff as 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:30.800 well as our scholars to make sure that we are 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:34.920 learning all the time and not getting complacent and not 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:37.920 feeling like well, you know, because we've been doing it 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:41.120 for thirty years. We're done. Um, you know, we need 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:43.880 to be more than allies. We need to be actors. 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:47.360 We need to make sure we're doing things to change 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:51.439 our society and make it better. That is so true. 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:54.240 One last question. You know, I think about you know, 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:56.920 these students that you work with and they go to college, 0:11:56.920 --> 0:11:58.440 they get a degree, and then of course it's off 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:00.800 to recruiters to recruit with them. One of the things 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:03.520 that we've heard is that companies need to think about, 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:09.600 you know, more aggressively, that they recruit diverse you know employees. 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:11.560 They you know they do, but they've got to do 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:14.439 it even more. Just got about forty seconds here. No, 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:18.520 you're right. I mean, look Goleman, Sacks and Travelers in 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:23.960 Deloitte Bank of America, these are companies that deliberately recruit 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:27.520 students from posse. They focus on it in a programmatic way. 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:31.320 So you're absolutely right, Carol. It's critically important that they 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:35.280 pay attention and they're they're deliberate. Yeah, we all have 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:37.120 a role in all of this, and you guys are 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:40.080 obviously playing a very big role. Um, Michael was right. 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:42.800 He said, you've got to talk to Debor Bale over 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:45.880 at the Posse Foundation. So I'm so glad um Deborah, 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:48.160 we got some time with you, and good luck, certainly 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:50.840 with the next group of students that you're working with. 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:53.560 Debor Bill, President and founder of the Posse Foundation, on 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:56.280 the phone in New York City. What a very cool program, Jason. 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:57.840 You need to be more than all that, you need 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:00.320 to be an actor. I like that. That's good. Gonna 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:04.079 remember that. Going to take that away. Uh, Debra deal terrific.