1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:21,356 Speaker 1: Pushkin back. In season two of Revisionist History, we did 2 00:00:21,356 --> 00:00:24,676 Speaker 1: a four part series on civil rights, and the first 3 00:00:24,676 --> 00:00:28,716 Speaker 1: episode of that series was called Miss Buchanan's Period of Adjustment. 4 00:00:29,396 --> 00:00:32,396 Speaker 1: It's still one of my favorite Revisionist episodes of all time. 5 00:00:32,676 --> 00:00:35,796 Speaker 1: It was about Brown versus Board of Education, the nineteen 6 00:00:35,876 --> 00:00:39,996 Speaker 1: fifty four Supreme Court case that desegregated America's schools and 7 00:00:40,116 --> 00:00:42,956 Speaker 1: is still today maybe the most famous of all Supreme 8 00:00:42,996 --> 00:00:47,116 Speaker 1: Court cases. And our episode was about what happened after 9 00:00:47,156 --> 00:00:51,156 Speaker 1: the Brown decision came down, the heartbreaking consequence that no 10 00:00:51,196 --> 00:00:56,676 Speaker 1: one anticipated and everyone seems to have forgotten. Anyway, it ran, 11 00:00:57,556 --> 00:00:59,676 Speaker 1: and about a week later, I got a call on 12 00:00:59,796 --> 00:01:04,076 Speaker 1: my cell from restricted number. And normally I would never 13 00:01:04,076 --> 00:01:06,276 Speaker 1: pick up a call from a restricted number, but for 14 00:01:06,316 --> 00:01:08,716 Speaker 1: some reason I did, and a voice on the other 15 00:01:08,796 --> 00:01:12,676 Speaker 1: end of the line said, mister Gladwell, hold for the President. 16 00:01:13,876 --> 00:01:18,116 Speaker 1: My first thought was President of what? And my second 17 00:01:18,156 --> 00:01:22,556 Speaker 1: thought was, wow, this is quite the elaborate spam call. 18 00:01:23,236 --> 00:01:25,196 Speaker 1: And I was just about to hang up when I 19 00:01:25,236 --> 00:01:31,076 Speaker 1: hear Malcolm Barack Obama, just listen to your episode on 20 00:01:31,116 --> 00:01:34,916 Speaker 1: the Brown Case. I loved it. My wedding and the 21 00:01:34,956 --> 00:01:38,036 Speaker 1: birth of my two children are clearly the first, second, 22 00:01:38,116 --> 00:01:40,796 Speaker 1: and third most memorable moments of my life, but this 23 00:01:41,436 --> 00:01:45,756 Speaker 1: is a very strong number four. I mean, come on, Malcolm, 24 00:01:46,316 --> 00:01:50,356 Speaker 1: Barack Obama. Anyway, fast forward a couple years and Barack 25 00:01:50,356 --> 00:01:52,996 Speaker 1: Obama's team approached me about doing a project with the 26 00:01:53,036 --> 00:01:58,196 Speaker 1: President about reconstruction that tumultuous window after the Civil War 27 00:01:58,476 --> 00:02:00,876 Speaker 1: that you kind of have to understand if you are 28 00:02:00,916 --> 00:02:03,516 Speaker 1: to understand the story of race and civil rights in America. 29 00:02:04,196 --> 00:02:09,116 Speaker 1: That project launches next week. It's called Reconstruction the Unfinished Promise. 30 00:02:10,036 --> 00:02:12,436 Speaker 1: I know I'm biased, but it's really good, and we're 31 00:02:12,476 --> 00:02:14,276 Speaker 1: going to bring you a preview of it in this 32 00:02:14,396 --> 00:02:18,476 Speaker 1: feed next week. But for today, let's go back to 33 00:02:18,476 --> 00:02:22,236 Speaker 1: where this all began and play for you Miss Buchanan's 34 00:02:22,276 --> 00:02:26,116 Speaker 1: Period of Adjustment, one of my favorite episodes ever and 35 00:02:26,156 --> 00:02:30,676 Speaker 1: apparently some other people's favorite episode as well. On the 36 00:02:30,676 --> 00:02:33,836 Speaker 1: campus of the University of Michigan, there's a gorgeous building 37 00:02:33,916 --> 00:02:37,156 Speaker 1: called the Racam Auditorium, built in the nineteen thirties in 38 00:02:37,196 --> 00:02:40,676 Speaker 1: the Classical Renaissance style, and in January of two thousand 39 00:02:40,716 --> 00:02:43,996 Speaker 1: and four, on one of those cold Michigan days, a 40 00:02:44,036 --> 00:02:46,676 Speaker 1: woman takes the stage in front of a big crowd. 41 00:02:47,396 --> 00:02:50,316 Speaker 1: She's in her sixties. Her name is Missus Thompson. 42 00:02:51,676 --> 00:02:56,516 Speaker 2: Good evening, It's indeed a pleasure to be with you 43 00:02:56,636 --> 00:03:00,596 Speaker 2: this evening here on the campus of the University of Michigan, 44 00:03:00,636 --> 00:03:06,116 Speaker 2: the home of the Wolverines. Is that right? And I 45 00:03:06,236 --> 00:03:08,476 Speaker 2: heard you had a game last night. You only lost 46 00:03:08,516 --> 00:03:13,036 Speaker 2: it by two points, huh. 47 00:03:13,156 --> 00:03:15,156 Speaker 1: She tells a funny story about how she was once 48 00:03:15,196 --> 00:03:17,876 Speaker 1: invited to speak at Nasau and thought she was going 49 00:03:17,956 --> 00:03:21,196 Speaker 1: to the Bahamas, only to discover that it was Nasau County, 50 00:03:21,276 --> 00:03:24,556 Speaker 1: Long Island. She talks a little bit about her childhood 51 00:03:24,556 --> 00:03:27,996 Speaker 1: and her family. Then right in the middle of her talk, 52 00:03:28,356 --> 00:03:31,436 Speaker 1: she starts reading a notice of termination sent many years 53 00:03:31,436 --> 00:03:34,116 Speaker 1: ago to a teacher named Darla Buchanan. 54 00:03:34,396 --> 00:03:39,076 Speaker 2: Dear miss Buchanan, due to the present uncertainty about enrollment 55 00:03:39,116 --> 00:03:42,396 Speaker 2: next year, it is necessary for me to notify you 56 00:03:42,516 --> 00:03:45,956 Speaker 2: now that your services will not be needed for next year. 57 00:03:47,156 --> 00:03:50,076 Speaker 1: The students in the auditorium are wrapped. This is not 58 00:03:50,156 --> 00:03:54,396 Speaker 1: what they expected, but Missus Thompson goes on and reads 59 00:03:54,436 --> 00:03:55,356 Speaker 1: all the way to the end. 60 00:03:55,916 --> 00:03:57,996 Speaker 2: I think I understand that all of you must be 61 00:03:58,076 --> 00:04:02,876 Speaker 2: under considerable strain, and I sympathize with the uncertainties an 62 00:04:02,916 --> 00:04:07,596 Speaker 2: inconvenience which you must be experiencing during this period of adjustment. 63 00:04:08,756 --> 00:04:12,836 Speaker 1: This period of adjustment, remember that line. It's a nice 64 00:04:12,876 --> 00:04:20,676 Speaker 1: bit of condescension and understatement. My name is Malcolm Gladwell. 65 00:04:21,196 --> 00:04:25,356 Speaker 1: You're listening to Revisionist History, my podcast about things Overlooked 66 00:04:25,356 --> 00:04:32,156 Speaker 1: and Misunderstood. This episode is about that ethemism in the 67 00:04:32,236 --> 00:04:41,916 Speaker 1: letter read by Missus Thompson, this period of adjustment. Not 68 00:04:42,036 --> 00:04:46,236 Speaker 1: that long ago. Americans set out to do something revolutionary 69 00:04:46,756 --> 00:04:50,716 Speaker 1: to change the world, but we botched it, and we 70 00:04:50,756 --> 00:04:53,476 Speaker 1: didn't want to admit that fact. So we swept the 71 00:04:53,516 --> 00:04:56,956 Speaker 1: whole episode under the rug and wrote letters to everyone 72 00:04:57,036 --> 00:05:00,716 Speaker 1: concerned to try and absolve ourselves of the whole business. 73 00:05:01,316 --> 00:05:05,636 Speaker 2: I believe that whatever happens will ultimately turn out to 74 00:05:05,676 --> 00:05:14,756 Speaker 2: be the best for everyone concern Yeah. 75 00:05:14,916 --> 00:05:15,116 Speaker 3: Right. 76 00:05:18,036 --> 00:05:21,036 Speaker 1: The letter of termination to Darla Buchanan was written by 77 00:05:21,076 --> 00:05:24,916 Speaker 1: the superintendent of schools in Topeka, Kansas, the capital of Kansas, 78 00:05:25,276 --> 00:05:27,516 Speaker 1: a medium sized city in the upper right hand corner 79 00:05:27,516 --> 00:05:30,156 Speaker 1: of the state. Like a lot of cities and towns 80 00:05:30,196 --> 00:05:33,756 Speaker 1: in the United States, particularly those in the South, Topeka 81 00:05:33,796 --> 00:05:36,716 Speaker 1: had segregated public elementary schools. In the Jim Crow era, 82 00:05:37,756 --> 00:05:41,516 Speaker 1: white children went to neighborhood schools. Black children went to 83 00:05:41,556 --> 00:05:44,596 Speaker 1: a separate system of schools scattered around the city with 84 00:05:44,676 --> 00:05:48,276 Speaker 1: their own black teachers and black principles. In the years 85 00:05:48,276 --> 00:05:51,076 Speaker 1: after the Second World War, the leading civil rights group 86 00:05:51,076 --> 00:05:55,756 Speaker 1: of the day, the NAACP, decided to start challenging segregation. 87 00:05:56,516 --> 00:06:00,396 Speaker 1: Topeka was one of their test cases. They found thirteen 88 00:06:00,436 --> 00:06:02,516 Speaker 1: black families and asked them to go down to their 89 00:06:02,556 --> 00:06:06,436 Speaker 1: neighborhood white school and try and enroll their children. One 90 00:06:06,436 --> 00:06:09,076 Speaker 1: of the couples they asked was Oliver and Leo le Brand. 91 00:06:10,356 --> 00:06:13,676 Speaker 1: Oliver Brown worked for the Santa Fe Railroad. Later he 92 00:06:13,716 --> 00:06:16,556 Speaker 1: was a pastor. This is lee Ola Brown from an 93 00:06:16,556 --> 00:06:19,276 Speaker 1: interview she gave in nineteen ninety one to the Kansas 94 00:06:19,316 --> 00:06:20,756 Speaker 1: State Historical Society. 95 00:06:21,276 --> 00:06:24,556 Speaker 4: My husband Oliver Brown. He was a heavyweight fighter. He 96 00:06:24,676 --> 00:06:25,996 Speaker 4: used to fight golden gloves. 97 00:06:26,996 --> 00:06:29,956 Speaker 1: The Browns had a seven year old named Linda. The 98 00:06:29,996 --> 00:06:32,676 Speaker 1: black elementary school she was supposed to go to was 99 00:06:32,676 --> 00:06:36,316 Speaker 1: caled Monroe. To get there, she had to walk seven blocks, 100 00:06:36,436 --> 00:06:39,676 Speaker 1: often in freezing weather, and cross a busy road, then 101 00:06:39,716 --> 00:06:43,356 Speaker 1: get on a bus. The local white elementary school was 102 00:06:43,436 --> 00:06:47,796 Speaker 1: Sumner just four blocks on the Browns, Linda's playmates from 103 00:06:47,796 --> 00:06:51,316 Speaker 1: the neighborhood all went there. So one day, as instructed 104 00:06:51,396 --> 00:06:55,116 Speaker 1: by the NAACP, Oliver Brown took his daughter by the 105 00:06:55,156 --> 00:06:58,596 Speaker 1: hand and walked her over to enroll at Sumner Elementary. 106 00:06:58,876 --> 00:07:01,036 Speaker 4: As Linda said, when they got over there, and that 107 00:07:01,196 --> 00:07:03,636 Speaker 4: building looks so bigger, being a little kid going upstairs. 108 00:07:04,196 --> 00:07:06,756 Speaker 4: And then when they got ready to talk, they had 109 00:07:06,796 --> 00:07:09,636 Speaker 4: her sit on the outside of the office was talking 110 00:07:09,676 --> 00:07:10,196 Speaker 4: to the principal. 111 00:07:10,796 --> 00:07:14,556 Speaker 1: You could imagine how uncomfortable the conversation was. Oliver Brown 112 00:07:14,716 --> 00:07:17,956 Speaker 1: was not supposed to be there, and the principal would 113 00:07:17,996 --> 00:07:19,756 Speaker 1: have had no idea what to say to him other 114 00:07:19,796 --> 00:07:22,836 Speaker 1: than I'm sorry. This is the way it is in Topeka. 115 00:07:23,316 --> 00:07:25,916 Speaker 1: With little Linda waiting out in the hall, if. 116 00:07:25,836 --> 00:07:27,916 Speaker 4: She said, you could hear the Vossors kinda getting a 117 00:07:27,956 --> 00:07:30,116 Speaker 4: little loud. And he said, well, it wasn't him, it 118 00:07:30,276 --> 00:07:33,796 Speaker 4: was the school board. That was a policy of the 119 00:07:33,796 --> 00:07:35,756 Speaker 4: school board. He couldn't do nothing about it, you know, 120 00:07:35,956 --> 00:07:38,596 Speaker 4: So he couldn't, no way could he could not enroll 121 00:07:38,676 --> 00:07:40,836 Speaker 4: Landon in that school without their approval. 122 00:07:42,076 --> 00:07:45,436 Speaker 1: All the black families got the same answer, your child 123 00:07:45,596 --> 00:07:50,076 Speaker 1: is not welcome, So the local NAACP chapter sued the 124 00:07:50,076 --> 00:07:53,996 Speaker 1: school board. Oliver Brown's name was put first, Brown versus 125 00:07:54,036 --> 00:07:56,756 Speaker 1: to peak a Board of Education. It was bundled with 126 00:07:56,756 --> 00:07:59,756 Speaker 1: a number of other desegregation cases from all around the country. 127 00:08:00,156 --> 00:08:03,236 Speaker 1: More than two hundred plaintiffs in all, went all the 128 00:08:03,276 --> 00:08:06,716 Speaker 1: way to the Supreme Court, and on May seventeenth, nineteen 129 00:08:06,796 --> 00:08:09,956 Speaker 1: fifty four, in one of the most famously decisions in 130 00:08:09,996 --> 00:08:15,476 Speaker 1: American history, the Court ruled in Oliver Brown's favor. The 131 00:08:15,556 --> 00:08:19,516 Speaker 1: practice of educating black and white school children separately was 132 00:08:19,636 --> 00:08:21,116 Speaker 1: ruled unconstitutional. 133 00:08:23,196 --> 00:08:28,356 Speaker 3: It was a unanimous decision and had the broadest possible language, 134 00:08:28,636 --> 00:08:31,916 Speaker 3: which should set for rest, once and for all the 135 00:08:32,036 --> 00:08:36,116 Speaker 3: problem as to whether or not a second class citizenship 136 00:08:36,716 --> 00:08:40,556 Speaker 3: segregation could be consistent any longer with the law of 137 00:08:40,556 --> 00:08:41,916 Speaker 3: the country. 138 00:08:42,516 --> 00:08:44,596 Speaker 1: I'm guessing you were taught about the Brown decision in 139 00:08:44,636 --> 00:08:48,956 Speaker 1: school or have watched a documentary on it. It's a milestone, 140 00:08:49,636 --> 00:08:52,996 Speaker 1: but at the same time it's a strange case. You 141 00:08:53,036 --> 00:08:55,356 Speaker 1: could fill an auditorium with all the scholars who have 142 00:08:55,396 --> 00:08:58,156 Speaker 1: a quarrel with Brown. I mean, just go back and 143 00:08:58,196 --> 00:09:00,796 Speaker 1: read it. It's supposed to be a ruling in favor 144 00:09:00,836 --> 00:09:03,716 Speaker 1: of Oliver and Leola Brown and the families of Topeka. 145 00:09:04,236 --> 00:09:07,516 Speaker 1: But the court actually says something entirely different from what 146 00:09:07,556 --> 00:09:09,116 Speaker 1: the black people of Topeka were saying. 147 00:09:09,796 --> 00:09:14,236 Speaker 4: I went to Monroe School here Intopeka from grade one 148 00:09:14,276 --> 00:09:14,756 Speaker 4: through eight. 149 00:09:15,316 --> 00:09:17,836 Speaker 1: Listen again to Leola Brown's interview with the Kansas State 150 00:09:17,956 --> 00:09:22,916 Speaker 1: Historical Society. On several occasions, Liola is asked about Monroe, 151 00:09:23,116 --> 00:09:26,156 Speaker 1: the black school that her daughter had been attending. Leola 152 00:09:26,236 --> 00:09:28,916 Speaker 1: grew up in Topeka, she went to Monroe as well, 153 00:09:29,196 --> 00:09:32,436 Speaker 1: and Leola Brown makes it very clear that she loved Monroe. 154 00:09:33,436 --> 00:09:36,956 Speaker 4: Oh it's wonderful. I tell you, it was wonderful. And 155 00:09:37,116 --> 00:09:41,196 Speaker 4: had it not been through this boging, you know, school 156 00:09:41,196 --> 00:09:43,876 Speaker 4: and going so far to school, we've possibly never wit of, 157 00:09:44,396 --> 00:09:46,316 Speaker 4: you know. That's what we did. 158 00:09:47,236 --> 00:09:50,196 Speaker 1: Later in the interview, the issue comes up again. The 159 00:09:50,236 --> 00:09:54,316 Speaker 1: interviewer asked Leola specifically, you didn't want your daughter to 160 00:09:54,316 --> 00:09:56,236 Speaker 1: go to the white school because the white school was 161 00:09:56,276 --> 00:09:59,356 Speaker 1: better than the black school, and Liola is adamant, Oh, no, 162 00:09:59,956 --> 00:10:03,196 Speaker 1: that never came up. We were getting a quality education 163 00:10:03,276 --> 00:10:03,796 Speaker 1: at Monroe. 164 00:10:04,076 --> 00:10:05,196 Speaker 5: We didn't have any. 165 00:10:06,596 --> 00:10:08,916 Speaker 4: Bane to pick with our schools. For his education, Misiness 166 00:10:09,156 --> 00:10:12,236 Speaker 4: ignored the teachers because they were qualified and they need 167 00:10:12,316 --> 00:10:13,196 Speaker 4: what they were supposed to do. 168 00:10:14,356 --> 00:10:17,156 Speaker 1: For Leola and Oliver Brown, the lawsuit was a matter 169 00:10:17,196 --> 00:10:20,396 Speaker 1: of principle. They didn't think there was anything wrong with 170 00:10:20,436 --> 00:10:23,236 Speaker 1: the quality of education at Monroe, the all black school. 171 00:10:23,876 --> 00:10:26,436 Speaker 1: They just thought that the Topeka school Board shouldn't be 172 00:10:26,476 --> 00:10:29,196 Speaker 1: telling them where they could or couldn't send Linda to school, 173 00:10:29,916 --> 00:10:32,556 Speaker 1: particularly if the only reason the school board could come 174 00:10:32,636 --> 00:10:39,036 Speaker 1: up with was the color of Linda's skin. Now listen 175 00:10:39,076 --> 00:10:42,036 Speaker 1: to the argument the Supreme Court makes in the Brown decision. 176 00:10:42,796 --> 00:10:45,036 Speaker 1: They agreed that the Browns ought to be able to 177 00:10:45,076 --> 00:10:49,156 Speaker 1: send Linda to Sumner, but their reasoning is different. I'm 178 00:10:49,236 --> 00:10:54,596 Speaker 1: quoting segregation of white and colored children in public schools 179 00:10:54,876 --> 00:10:59,676 Speaker 1: has a detrimental effect upon the colored children. The Court's 180 00:10:59,676 --> 00:11:04,076 Speaker 1: conclusion was that segregation was de facto unequal. That simply 181 00:11:04,116 --> 00:11:07,716 Speaker 1: the act of educating black children separately from white children 182 00:11:08,036 --> 00:11:12,956 Speaker 1: caused harm, serious harm. The court goes on, segregation with 183 00:11:12,996 --> 00:11:16,076 Speaker 1: the sanction of law, has a tendency to retard the 184 00:11:16,236 --> 00:11:21,916 Speaker 1: educational and mental development of Negro children. This was light 185 00:11:21,996 --> 00:11:26,476 Speaker 1: years away from Leola Brown's position. Leola Brown said that 186 00:11:26,516 --> 00:11:30,076 Speaker 1: black run schools like Monroe were good schools, but as 187 00:11:30,076 --> 00:11:32,396 Speaker 1: a matter of principle, she ought to be able to 188 00:11:32,516 --> 00:11:37,396 Speaker 1: enroll into at Sumner. The court said, actually, Monroe is 189 00:11:37,436 --> 00:11:39,876 Speaker 1: not a good school at all. It can't be a 190 00:11:39,916 --> 00:11:45,996 Speaker 1: good school because segregation makes it inherently Inferiorleola Brown said, 191 00:11:46,156 --> 00:11:49,196 Speaker 1: we're fine, we just want some control over our lives. 192 00:11:49,796 --> 00:11:53,436 Speaker 1: The court said, you're not fine at all. Your educational 193 00:11:53,596 --> 00:12:05,236 Speaker 1: and mental development has been retarded by your inferior schooling. Now, 194 00:12:05,356 --> 00:12:08,356 Speaker 1: the court could have said something much more straightforward. How 195 00:12:08,356 --> 00:12:11,716 Speaker 1: about this, schools are where people make the connections that 196 00:12:11,796 --> 00:12:14,236 Speaker 1: allow them to get ahead in the world. You cannot 197 00:12:14,356 --> 00:12:16,956 Speaker 1: lock black people out of the place where social power 198 00:12:16,996 --> 00:12:21,476 Speaker 1: and opportunity reside. That argument would have done the job right, 199 00:12:21,516 --> 00:12:24,556 Speaker 1: but the court doesn't say that. In order to condemn 200 00:12:24,636 --> 00:12:27,876 Speaker 1: the discrimination to Brown's face. The court instead makes the 201 00:12:27,876 --> 00:12:34,516 Speaker 1: case that black people are psychologically crippled. The historian Darryl 202 00:12:34,556 --> 00:12:37,676 Speaker 1: Scott wrote a brilliant book a while back called Contempt 203 00:12:37,756 --> 00:12:40,356 Speaker 1: and Pity, in which she points out that there's been 204 00:12:40,396 --> 00:12:44,076 Speaker 1: a long history behind this talk of psychological damage. It 205 00:12:44,116 --> 00:12:47,116 Speaker 1: goes back to the days of slavery. It's always been 206 00:12:47,156 --> 00:12:50,356 Speaker 1: incredibly useful for white people to explain the problems of 207 00:12:50,396 --> 00:12:55,116 Speaker 1: black people as the result of something personal internal. It 208 00:12:55,156 --> 00:12:56,836 Speaker 1: makes their problems their fault. 209 00:12:57,236 --> 00:13:00,396 Speaker 6: If you go even back to an Antebellum period, you 210 00:13:00,436 --> 00:13:03,076 Speaker 6: would see planners who would talk about how they have 211 00:13:03,236 --> 00:13:05,836 Speaker 6: no sense of family. Now, of course, these are the 212 00:13:05,956 --> 00:13:08,916 Speaker 6: very people who are selling people's families at the auction block. 213 00:13:10,556 --> 00:13:13,836 Speaker 6: They're destroying families, but they were justified in their minds 214 00:13:13,876 --> 00:13:15,796 Speaker 6: by saying they have no sense of families. 215 00:13:16,316 --> 00:13:20,236 Speaker 1: Another historian, Charles Pain, makes a very similar argument in 216 00:13:20,236 --> 00:13:23,756 Speaker 1: his essay The Whole United States Is Southern, which you 217 00:13:23,796 --> 00:13:25,876 Speaker 1: should read, by the way, if you ever want to 218 00:13:25,916 --> 00:13:29,996 Speaker 1: be grabbed by the lapels. Pain argues that in the 219 00:13:30,036 --> 00:13:33,476 Speaker 1: decades after the Civil War, Southern whites attempt to sell 220 00:13:33,516 --> 00:13:36,196 Speaker 1: the rest of America on this way of thinking about race. 221 00:13:36,756 --> 00:13:40,516 Speaker 1: They've basically imposed apartheid on the South through brute political 222 00:13:40,516 --> 00:13:45,196 Speaker 1: and economic force. But they want, quoting Pain, to frame 223 00:13:45,276 --> 00:13:48,756 Speaker 1: the issue in a language of separation customs are a 224 00:13:48,756 --> 00:13:53,076 Speaker 1: way of life and social equality, language that constructed race 225 00:13:53,196 --> 00:13:57,756 Speaker 1: in interpersonal and not structural terms. They want to pretend 226 00:13:57,836 --> 00:14:02,276 Speaker 1: that racial conflict is just a psychological problem. So what 227 00:14:02,476 --> 00:14:05,276 Speaker 1: does the U. S. Supreme Court do? In nineteen fifty four, 228 00:14:05,316 --> 00:14:08,516 Speaker 1: In the Brown decision. It buys into the Southern way 229 00:14:08,516 --> 00:14:13,076 Speaker 1: of thinking about race. Leo le Brown and the other 230 00:14:13,116 --> 00:14:17,796 Speaker 1: plaintiffs say, we have a structural problem. We don't have 231 00:14:17,836 --> 00:14:20,156 Speaker 1: the power to send Linda to the school down the street. 232 00:14:20,836 --> 00:14:24,636 Speaker 1: The court says, no, no, no, it's a psychological problem. 233 00:14:24,956 --> 00:14:29,356 Speaker 1: Little Linda has been damaged in her heart. That may 234 00:14:29,396 --> 00:14:33,956 Speaker 1: seem like a small distinction. Believe me, it's not. We're 235 00:14:34,036 --> 00:14:39,116 Speaker 1: still dealing with the consequences. This is a little bit 236 00:14:39,116 --> 00:14:41,756 Speaker 1: of a tangent, but I think it helps to explain 237 00:14:41,796 --> 00:14:46,356 Speaker 1: why personalizing racial discussions is so problematic. It's about a 238 00:14:46,396 --> 00:14:49,316 Speaker 1: wonderful bit of research done by two political scientists at 239 00:14:49,396 --> 00:14:55,076 Speaker 1: Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Jason Grissom and Christopher Reading. Grissom 240 00:14:55,116 --> 00:14:58,516 Speaker 1: and Redding start with a well known fact White students 241 00:14:58,596 --> 00:15:00,636 Speaker 1: are far more likely to be in gifted in Talented 242 00:15:00,676 --> 00:15:04,036 Speaker 1: programs than black students. If your kid is in a 243 00:15:04,076 --> 00:15:07,156 Speaker 1: gifted in Talented program, you've probably observed this. Where are 244 00:15:07,156 --> 00:15:10,356 Speaker 1: the black kids, right? I might say, well, that's simply 245 00:15:10,396 --> 00:15:13,356 Speaker 1: a reflection of the fact that white kids, for whatever reasons, 246 00:15:13,676 --> 00:15:16,596 Speaker 1: have higher test scores on average and black kids. So 247 00:15:16,676 --> 00:15:19,156 Speaker 1: Grissom and Reading look at a large national sample of 248 00:15:19,196 --> 00:15:22,956 Speaker 1: elementary school kids and say, let's equalize for test scores. 249 00:15:23,076 --> 00:15:25,916 Speaker 7: In other words, let's compare two students, one black and 250 00:15:25,916 --> 00:15:29,316 Speaker 7: one white, but they both are very high achieving. This 251 00:15:29,436 --> 00:15:33,116 Speaker 7: is Grisom, would that difference in probability that they are 252 00:15:33,436 --> 00:15:36,036 Speaker 7: identified by the system as gifted? Would that persist? And 253 00:15:36,076 --> 00:15:39,396 Speaker 7: the answer is that it does. In fact, it's still 254 00:15:39,396 --> 00:15:41,436 Speaker 7: the case that even when you look at two students 255 00:15:41,436 --> 00:15:45,196 Speaker 7: who are similar on math and reading achievement in elementary school, 256 00:15:45,716 --> 00:15:47,876 Speaker 7: a white student and a black student, that white student 257 00:15:47,996 --> 00:15:50,996 Speaker 7: is still more than two times as likely to be 258 00:15:51,076 --> 00:15:54,596 Speaker 7: receiving gifted services as that black student is gifted. 259 00:15:54,636 --> 00:15:58,356 Speaker 1: Programs are supposed to be meritocracies, places where the brightest 260 00:15:58,396 --> 00:16:01,836 Speaker 1: children are given a chance to shine. Grisom's saying, that's 261 00:16:01,876 --> 00:16:03,636 Speaker 1: not the way things work in practice. 262 00:16:04,156 --> 00:16:06,236 Speaker 7: And you can go a little further, because you can 263 00:16:06,236 --> 00:16:09,076 Speaker 7: throw other things into the equation that aren't just achievement. 264 00:16:09,156 --> 00:16:11,436 Speaker 7: You can look at differences in income, the data have, 265 00:16:12,236 --> 00:16:15,316 Speaker 7: how healthy the parents says that child is. We know 266 00:16:15,396 --> 00:16:18,996 Speaker 7: what age that child entered kindergarten. You know, on average, 267 00:16:19,036 --> 00:16:21,756 Speaker 7: white students and black students enter kindergarten at different ages. 268 00:16:21,796 --> 00:16:24,436 Speaker 7: Because of the phenomenon of red shirting, white parents are 269 00:16:24,436 --> 00:16:27,516 Speaker 7: more likely to hold their kids back at the start 270 00:16:27,516 --> 00:16:30,156 Speaker 7: of schooling than black students are. That doesn't explain the 271 00:16:30,156 --> 00:16:30,836 Speaker 7: gifted gap. 272 00:16:31,396 --> 00:16:33,916 Speaker 1: In other words, you match up bright black kids with 273 00:16:33,956 --> 00:16:36,676 Speaker 1: equally bright white kids, then you make sure the two 274 00:16:36,676 --> 00:16:39,876 Speaker 1: groups are similar in age, class, and the health of 275 00:16:39,876 --> 00:16:42,756 Speaker 1: their parents, and you still find that the white kids 276 00:16:42,956 --> 00:16:45,116 Speaker 1: are far more likely to be admitted to gifted and 277 00:16:45,196 --> 00:16:50,076 Speaker 1: talented programs. Kind of a puzzle, right. Finally, Grissom and 278 00:16:50,116 --> 00:16:54,076 Speaker 1: Reddings say, look, in many cases, teachers play a big 279 00:16:54,156 --> 00:16:57,916 Speaker 1: role in which students get into gifted programs. They encourage them, 280 00:16:57,956 --> 00:17:01,596 Speaker 1: they recommend them. So they think maybe the answer here 281 00:17:01,876 --> 00:17:04,956 Speaker 1: lies with not who the child is, but who the 282 00:17:05,036 --> 00:17:06,116 Speaker 1: child's teacher is. 283 00:17:06,596 --> 00:17:09,916 Speaker 7: In the overwhelming majority of school districts in the United States, 284 00:17:10,276 --> 00:17:12,636 Speaker 7: the way that a kid ever gets to be identified 285 00:17:12,636 --> 00:17:15,996 Speaker 7: as gifted is if someone in the school, usually a 286 00:17:16,036 --> 00:17:18,436 Speaker 7: classroom teacher, has to look at that kid and say, 287 00:17:18,836 --> 00:17:20,436 Speaker 7: I think this kid might be gifted. 288 00:17:21,036 --> 00:17:24,196 Speaker 1: So Grissom does something really simple. He looks at the 289 00:17:24,276 --> 00:17:27,036 Speaker 1: race of the teacher, and what he finds is that 290 00:17:27,076 --> 00:17:30,556 Speaker 1: for white kids, there's no effect. It doesn't matter but 291 00:17:30,636 --> 00:17:31,676 Speaker 1: not for black students. 292 00:17:32,076 --> 00:17:35,236 Speaker 7: For a black student, the world looks different. So if 293 00:17:35,236 --> 00:17:38,596 Speaker 7: I'm a black student and I have a black classroom teacher, 294 00:17:38,756 --> 00:17:42,276 Speaker 7: the probability that I'm assigned to giftedness in the next 295 00:17:42,436 --> 00:17:45,716 Speaker 7: year it looks very much like the probability for a 296 00:17:45,756 --> 00:17:49,556 Speaker 7: white student. But if I am a Black student and 297 00:17:49,596 --> 00:17:53,836 Speaker 7: I have a white classroom teacher, my probability of being 298 00:17:53,916 --> 00:17:56,676 Speaker 7: identified as gifted is substantially lower. 299 00:17:56,956 --> 00:17:58,076 Speaker 1: How much lower? 300 00:17:58,236 --> 00:18:02,156 Speaker 7: Okay, So for very high achieving black students, the probability 301 00:18:02,156 --> 00:18:05,756 Speaker 7: of being assigned to gifted services under a white teacher 302 00:18:06,036 --> 00:18:11,836 Speaker 7: is about half the probability as an observably similar black 303 00:18:11,836 --> 00:18:13,436 Speaker 7: student taught by a black teacher. 304 00:18:14,196 --> 00:18:17,356 Speaker 1: If you're black, having a black teacher makes a difference, 305 00:18:17,916 --> 00:18:20,876 Speaker 1: and not just for getting into gifted programs. Having a 306 00:18:20,876 --> 00:18:23,756 Speaker 1: black teacher raises the test scores of black students, it 307 00:18:23,916 --> 00:18:27,676 Speaker 1: changes the way black students behave, and it dramatically decreases 308 00:18:27,716 --> 00:18:34,076 Speaker 1: the chances a black male student would be suspended. A 309 00:18:34,076 --> 00:18:36,596 Speaker 1: group of social scientists recently went over the records of 310 00:18:36,596 --> 00:18:39,716 Speaker 1: one hundred thousand black students in North Carolina over a 311 00:18:39,756 --> 00:18:42,996 Speaker 1: five year period. They found that having even one black 312 00:18:43,036 --> 00:18:46,436 Speaker 1: teacher between the third and fifth grade reduced the chance 313 00:18:46,476 --> 00:18:48,516 Speaker 1: that an African American boy would later drop out of 314 00:18:48,596 --> 00:18:53,236 Speaker 1: high school by how much? By thirty nine percent one 315 00:18:53,276 --> 00:18:57,956 Speaker 1: black teacher. Now, does this mean that white teachers are 316 00:18:58,036 --> 00:19:02,116 Speaker 1: diabolical racists trying to hold down black students. No, this 317 00:19:02,156 --> 00:19:06,316 Speaker 1: isn't conscious discrimination. The point is that teachers have power, 318 00:19:06,996 --> 00:19:10,996 Speaker 1: the gatekeepers. They control the classroom. They decide who gets 319 00:19:11,036 --> 00:19:14,436 Speaker 1: recommended for prizes like gifted programs and who doesn't. They 320 00:19:14,436 --> 00:19:17,636 Speaker 1: decide who stays and who gets suspended. By directing their 321 00:19:17,676 --> 00:19:21,516 Speaker 1: attention to a child, A teacher can inspire by ignoring 322 00:19:21,556 --> 00:19:24,156 Speaker 1: another or sending him more often to the principal's office. 323 00:19:24,316 --> 00:19:30,276 Speaker 1: Teachers can discourage. Listen to Leo La Brown again about 324 00:19:30,316 --> 00:19:33,196 Speaker 1: why she liked her elementary school Monroe so much. 325 00:19:33,796 --> 00:19:37,396 Speaker 4: I loved it. I loved it the teachers who were fantastic. 326 00:19:37,916 --> 00:19:40,876 Speaker 4: We got a fantastic education there. It wasn't any say 327 00:19:40,916 --> 00:19:44,436 Speaker 4: this case wasn't based on that, because we had fantastic 328 00:19:44,516 --> 00:19:46,996 Speaker 4: teachers and we learned, We learned a lot. They were 329 00:19:47,036 --> 00:19:50,476 Speaker 4: good to us, more like an extended family like mothers 330 00:19:50,516 --> 00:19:52,476 Speaker 4: and so forth, because they took an interest in you, 331 00:19:52,476 --> 00:19:53,036 Speaker 4: you know, and. 332 00:19:54,636 --> 00:19:57,676 Speaker 1: They took an interest in you. That's what all the 333 00:19:57,676 --> 00:20:00,596 Speaker 1: research on blacks and whites and gifted programs comes down to. 334 00:20:01,436 --> 00:20:04,236 Speaker 1: You need to have someone who takes an interest in 335 00:20:04,276 --> 00:20:07,476 Speaker 1: you if you want education to work and be fair. 336 00:20:08,436 --> 00:20:12,516 Speaker 5: They made one serious mistake which I will have to 337 00:20:12,596 --> 00:20:14,996 Speaker 5: hold them responsible for. 338 00:20:15,836 --> 00:20:18,516 Speaker 1: I came across another archive of interviews from the Brown 339 00:20:18,596 --> 00:20:22,916 Speaker 1: era Duke Universities behind the Veil Oral History Project. The 340 00:20:22,956 --> 00:20:26,036 Speaker 1: interview you're hearing is from Richmond, Virginia. It's with an 341 00:20:26,036 --> 00:20:29,996 Speaker 1: African American teacher named Celestine Porter, and she says that 342 00:20:30,076 --> 00:20:32,916 Speaker 1: once you grant this idea that a teacher is a 343 00:20:32,956 --> 00:20:35,516 Speaker 1: gatekeeper and that a child needs someone to take an 344 00:20:35,556 --> 00:20:38,516 Speaker 1: interest in them, then that means integration should have been 345 00:20:38,556 --> 00:20:39,836 Speaker 1: pursued very differently. 346 00:20:40,356 --> 00:20:44,836 Speaker 5: They made students do the integration. They should have had 347 00:20:44,876 --> 00:20:50,516 Speaker 5: teachers verse, and they didn't do that at every one 348 00:20:50,716 --> 00:20:53,676 Speaker 5: of those white schools, at every one of the black schools, 349 00:20:53,956 --> 00:20:55,956 Speaker 5: If they were going to sign white children to the 350 00:20:55,956 --> 00:20:58,876 Speaker 5: black school they should have had white teachers. If they 351 00:20:58,876 --> 00:21:01,356 Speaker 5: were gonna sign black children into the white schools, they 352 00:21:01,396 --> 00:21:04,956 Speaker 5: should have had some black teachers there. Now, the first 353 00:21:05,196 --> 00:21:08,396 Speaker 5: people that should have been integrated should have been teaches. 354 00:21:08,436 --> 00:21:12,036 Speaker 5: An administration just first. But they didn't do that. They 355 00:21:12,156 --> 00:21:13,076 Speaker 5: moved the children. 356 00:21:13,916 --> 00:21:18,156 Speaker 1: She's absolutely right. Read the Brown Decision for yourself. The 357 00:21:18,156 --> 00:21:21,276 Speaker 1: court goes on and on about kids, but they have 358 00:21:21,356 --> 00:21:25,236 Speaker 1: virtually nothing to say about teachers. The word teacher comes 359 00:21:25,316 --> 00:21:27,636 Speaker 1: up once in the main text and a few times 360 00:21:27,676 --> 00:21:30,796 Speaker 1: in the footnotes. That's it. How on earth can you 361 00:21:30,876 --> 00:21:34,516 Speaker 1: undertake the greatest transformation of public education in American history 362 00:21:34,796 --> 00:21:36,436 Speaker 1: and barely mentioned teachers. 363 00:21:37,116 --> 00:21:41,596 Speaker 5: Young people didn't not know. Business moved first to have 364 00:21:41,796 --> 00:21:48,036 Speaker 5: borne the brunt oh the segregation process, and it did 365 00:21:48,076 --> 00:21:52,196 Speaker 5: something to the Elstons. It did something to them. It 366 00:21:52,276 --> 00:21:57,116 Speaker 5: made them hay, It gave them a sense of nobody's share. 367 00:21:57,196 --> 00:22:00,716 Speaker 5: Far me and most of the students that had moved 368 00:22:00,836 --> 00:22:04,116 Speaker 5: from the black schools into the white situation, we as 369 00:22:04,196 --> 00:22:07,436 Speaker 5: teachers had been there to nurture, there, to help them along, 370 00:22:07,756 --> 00:22:12,596 Speaker 5: to recognize that difficulties, to work with them when they 371 00:22:12,716 --> 00:22:16,636 Speaker 5: moved into the white situation. Teachers didn't know, they didn't not. 372 00:22:17,276 --> 00:22:18,316 Speaker 5: The teachers were fridled in. 373 00:22:19,836 --> 00:22:23,876 Speaker 1: The Brown Decision was all about children. The signature memories 374 00:22:23,916 --> 00:22:26,516 Speaker 1: of the Brown era are all about black children being 375 00:22:26,676 --> 00:22:30,116 Speaker 1: escorted into previously all white schools. We should have been 376 00:22:30,116 --> 00:22:37,756 Speaker 1: talking about teachers. About three and a half hours dew 377 00:22:37,796 --> 00:22:40,636 Speaker 1: east of Topeka on I seventy, there is a little 378 00:22:40,676 --> 00:22:44,356 Speaker 1: town called Moberley. Moberly is in the area of Missouri 379 00:22:44,396 --> 00:22:47,316 Speaker 1: called Little Dixie because it was settled by mirgrants from 380 00:22:47,316 --> 00:22:49,916 Speaker 1: the South before the Civil War. There was a lot 381 00:22:49,956 --> 00:22:52,276 Speaker 1: of slave owning in Little Dixie compared with the rest 382 00:22:52,276 --> 00:22:55,156 Speaker 1: of Missouri, a lot of racial hostility in that part 383 00:22:55,196 --> 00:22:57,596 Speaker 1: of the state. And I don't think you can understand 384 00:22:57,596 --> 00:23:00,956 Speaker 1: what happened after the Brown Decision without first understanding what 385 00:23:01,076 --> 00:23:05,956 Speaker 1: happened in Moberley. In the early nineteen fifties, Moberley had 386 00:23:05,956 --> 00:23:09,556 Speaker 1: a school system employing around one hundred teachers across its schools. 387 00:23:10,516 --> 00:23:13,516 Speaker 1: One of those schools was black. It was called Lincoln. 388 00:23:14,396 --> 00:23:18,236 Speaker 1: Lincoln had eleven teachers. The year after the Brown decision, 389 00:23:18,636 --> 00:23:23,156 Speaker 1: Mobilely integrates. They do that by closing the one black school, Lincoln, 390 00:23:23,756 --> 00:23:28,156 Speaker 1: combussing all the black students there to white schools. After 391 00:23:28,236 --> 00:23:31,516 Speaker 1: closing Lincoln, the Mobile School system then says, wait, if 392 00:23:31,556 --> 00:23:34,596 Speaker 1: we combine all the students in Mobilely into one school system, 393 00:23:34,956 --> 00:23:36,756 Speaker 1: we don't think we need as many teachers as we 394 00:23:36,836 --> 00:23:40,836 Speaker 1: had before. So they say, let's evaluate all the teachers 395 00:23:40,836 --> 00:23:44,276 Speaker 1: from the two newly combined systems, keep the best ones, 396 00:23:44,756 --> 00:23:47,956 Speaker 1: let the mediocre ones go. I think you can see 397 00:23:47,956 --> 00:23:51,476 Speaker 1: what's coming. They decide to fire every one of the 398 00:23:51,476 --> 00:23:54,916 Speaker 1: eleven black teachers who used to work at Lincoln. So 399 00:23:54,996 --> 00:23:58,396 Speaker 1: the black teachers sue and they lose. They appeal, they 400 00:23:58,436 --> 00:24:01,476 Speaker 1: lose again. In nineteen fifty nine, they asked the Supreme 401 00:24:01,476 --> 00:24:04,516 Speaker 1: Court to consider the case. The Supreme Court says, no, 402 00:24:05,516 --> 00:24:08,636 Speaker 1: Brown is the great victory, Moberly is the great defeat, 403 00:24:09,276 --> 00:24:14,396 Speaker 1: and they're connected. Let me give you a flavor of 404 00:24:14,436 --> 00:24:18,756 Speaker 1: the case. The black teachers say, you can't possibly say 405 00:24:18,796 --> 00:24:21,196 Speaker 1: that we were the absolute worst of all the teachers 406 00:24:21,196 --> 00:24:24,676 Speaker 1: in the combined system. We've been evaluated for years by 407 00:24:24,676 --> 00:24:28,356 Speaker 1: our superintendent and have been given high marks. The white 408 00:24:28,356 --> 00:24:32,116 Speaker 1: school board counters with, sure, but you are being compared 409 00:24:32,156 --> 00:24:35,356 Speaker 1: to other black teachers. You need to be compared to 410 00:24:35,396 --> 00:24:39,316 Speaker 1: white teachers. So the black teachers say, yeah, but we 411 00:24:39,436 --> 00:24:42,556 Speaker 1: stack up really well against white teachers. And by the way, 412 00:24:42,676 --> 00:24:46,636 Speaker 1: this was not a stretch. Virtually every profession except teaching 413 00:24:46,756 --> 00:24:49,956 Speaker 1: was closed to educated African Americans in those years. If 414 00:24:49,956 --> 00:24:52,636 Speaker 1: you were smart and liked learning in that era, you 415 00:24:52,716 --> 00:24:57,076 Speaker 1: became a teacher. The court then says, so what I'm 416 00:24:57,156 --> 00:25:02,116 Speaker 1: quoting Human capabilities cannot be reduced to a mathematical formula. 417 00:25:02,796 --> 00:25:09,076 Speaker 1: Intangible factors such as personality, character, disposition, industry, and adaptible 418 00:25:09,836 --> 00:25:13,316 Speaker 1: vitally affect the work of any teacher. I think there's 419 00:25:13,356 --> 00:25:17,436 Speaker 1: one intangible factor missing in that list, don't you what 420 00:25:17,516 --> 00:25:24,596 Speaker 1: could it be? Dispose? It begins with an r. Forgive 421 00:25:24,636 --> 00:25:27,236 Speaker 1: me for going on and on about this one obscure case, 422 00:25:27,676 --> 00:25:30,556 Speaker 1: but you have to get the flavor of it. The 423 00:25:30,596 --> 00:25:35,356 Speaker 1: plaintiffs say, wait, one of us is a superstar graduate degrees, 424 00:25:35,436 --> 00:25:39,956 Speaker 1: qualifications ratings to the roof. Her name is mary Alla Timminy. 425 00:25:40,356 --> 00:25:44,476 Speaker 1: And the white superintendent agrees she's a star, But he says, 426 00:25:45,036 --> 00:25:48,436 Speaker 1: I'm still not hiring her because, and when quoting here 427 00:25:48,516 --> 00:25:52,436 Speaker 1: from the judge's decision, because she gave the impression that 428 00:25:52,516 --> 00:25:57,276 Speaker 1: she considered herself superior to other teachers and was resentful 429 00:25:57,396 --> 00:26:03,636 Speaker 1: towards authority. Resentful towards authority, you think she just got fired. 430 00:26:05,196 --> 00:26:07,876 Speaker 1: The judge simply can't get mary Ella Timony out of 431 00:26:07,876 --> 00:26:12,836 Speaker 1: his head. Quoting again, it is unfortunate when teachers have 432 00:26:12,916 --> 00:26:16,356 Speaker 1: an attitude such as this teacher has, And I do 433 00:26:16,396 --> 00:26:18,556 Speaker 1: not mean to say that such attitude is limited to 434 00:26:18,556 --> 00:26:21,676 Speaker 1: any race or color, but when it does exist, it 435 00:26:21,796 --> 00:26:26,836 Speaker 1: vitally affects the teaching ability of the individual. She's apity, 436 00:26:27,076 --> 00:26:29,876 Speaker 1: an apity negro. Of course, they don't want to keep 437 00:26:29,876 --> 00:26:33,956 Speaker 1: her because they understand the same thing that Leola Brown understands, 438 00:26:34,236 --> 00:26:36,796 Speaker 1: and all the many academics who have studied what actually 439 00:26:36,836 --> 00:26:40,116 Speaker 1: happens to black kids in the classroom understand, which is 440 00:26:40,116 --> 00:26:43,676 Speaker 1: that educational equality is a function of who holds the 441 00:26:43,716 --> 00:26:48,836 Speaker 1: power in the classroom. So MOBILEI misery gets rid of 442 00:26:48,876 --> 00:26:52,356 Speaker 1: its Black teachers, and by the way, so does almost 443 00:26:52,476 --> 00:26:57,516 Speaker 1: everybody else. Across the entire South. Black teachers just get 444 00:26:57,556 --> 00:27:01,956 Speaker 1: fired left and right. It wasn't something done secretly, It 445 00:27:01,996 --> 00:27:04,836 Speaker 1: was done right out in the open. There was something 446 00:27:04,916 --> 00:27:08,116 Speaker 1: like eighty two thousand African American teachers in the South 447 00:27:08,156 --> 00:27:11,916 Speaker 1: before the Brown decision. Within a decade, as the decision 448 00:27:12,036 --> 00:27:16,076 Speaker 1: was slowly implemented across the country, about half have been fired. 449 00:27:16,636 --> 00:27:20,196 Speaker 8: What surprises me is the kind of historical amnesia there 450 00:27:20,356 --> 00:27:24,156 Speaker 8: is surrounding that issue that many many people today who 451 00:27:24,236 --> 00:27:27,796 Speaker 8: are searching for black teachers have no understanding of the 452 00:27:27,796 --> 00:27:29,636 Speaker 8: fact that many of them lost their jobs. 453 00:27:29,996 --> 00:27:32,276 Speaker 1: One of the few scholars who has paid any attention 454 00:27:32,356 --> 00:27:36,356 Speaker 1: to what happened is Michelle Foster, an education professor at 455 00:27:36,396 --> 00:27:40,236 Speaker 1: the University of Louisville. Twenty years ago, Foster tracked as 456 00:27:40,276 --> 00:27:42,676 Speaker 1: many black teachers from that era as she could find. 457 00:27:43,516 --> 00:27:46,556 Speaker 8: What role did teachers did black women play in the 458 00:27:46,716 --> 00:27:50,636 Speaker 8: South relative to children? They were nurse maids, they were housekeepers, 459 00:27:50,636 --> 00:27:53,716 Speaker 8: they were domestics. That's the role they played. You know, 460 00:27:53,996 --> 00:27:55,636 Speaker 8: every Southerner I meet a lot of stuff, they say, 461 00:27:55,716 --> 00:27:57,316 Speaker 8: I had a black somebody who took care of them. 462 00:27:57,596 --> 00:28:00,076 Speaker 8: But that's a mother. You know, that's a little different position. 463 00:28:00,556 --> 00:28:03,076 Speaker 8: When you're a teacher. You're evaluating, you're judging. 464 00:28:03,756 --> 00:28:05,916 Speaker 1: Even those who got to keep their jobs told one 465 00:28:05,996 --> 00:28:10,596 Speaker 1: story after another of humiliation. It was too much. One 466 00:28:10,676 --> 00:28:13,476 Speaker 1: of the teachers Foster interviewed went for a meeting with 467 00:28:13,516 --> 00:28:16,396 Speaker 1: the superintendent with all of the other black teachers who 468 00:28:16,436 --> 00:28:19,836 Speaker 1: were being kept on um, quoting there were fifteen of us, 469 00:28:20,196 --> 00:28:22,276 Speaker 1: and not a single one of them in there as 470 00:28:22,356 --> 00:28:25,196 Speaker 1: dark as I am. Not one that ought to tell 471 00:28:25,196 --> 00:28:29,036 Speaker 1: you something. By the way, the remaining black teachers couldn't 472 00:28:29,116 --> 00:28:39,676 Speaker 1: use the teacher's bathroom. They had to use the children's bathroom. 473 00:28:40,036 --> 00:28:42,156 Speaker 1: To this day, the ranks of black teachers in the 474 00:28:42,276 --> 00:28:45,836 Speaker 1: United States have not recovered from the humiliations and mass 475 00:28:45,876 --> 00:28:50,276 Speaker 1: firings of the nineteen fifties and sixties. As a percentage, 476 00:28:50,476 --> 00:28:53,356 Speaker 1: there are far fewer black teachers than there are black students. 477 00:28:53,876 --> 00:28:56,516 Speaker 1: And when you think back to studies on how important 478 00:28:56,556 --> 00:29:00,116 Speaker 1: black teachers are for the performance of black students, that's 479 00:29:00,196 --> 00:29:06,916 Speaker 1: a tragedy. Georgia, South Carolina, Florida, Alabama, one classroom after 480 00:29:06,916 --> 00:29:12,036 Speaker 1: another was purged of its black teams teachers and topeaka Kansas. 481 00:29:12,076 --> 00:29:15,516 Speaker 1: Of course, Topeka made a show of it. They assigned 482 00:29:15,516 --> 00:29:18,636 Speaker 1: a black teacher to a halftime position at the formerly 483 00:29:18,676 --> 00:29:21,956 Speaker 1: all white Randolph School, and then the principal, a man 484 00:29:22,036 --> 00:29:25,036 Speaker 1: named Stanley Stalter, had the task of calling up white 485 00:29:25,076 --> 00:29:28,636 Speaker 1: parents to see if they objected to this one halftime 486 00:29:28,676 --> 00:29:31,076 Speaker 1: black teacher, and of course they did. 487 00:29:31,676 --> 00:29:36,796 Speaker 9: Some were adamant. Nope, some of them had a very 488 00:29:38,236 --> 00:29:43,476 Speaker 9: peculiar reasons for not wanting this child in the black 489 00:29:43,516 --> 00:29:44,276 Speaker 9: teacher's room. 490 00:29:44,796 --> 00:29:48,516 Speaker 1: That's the principal Stalter interviewed by the Kansas Historical Society. 491 00:29:48,956 --> 00:29:53,036 Speaker 9: Another one said, my child is now twelve years of 492 00:29:53,076 --> 00:29:59,196 Speaker 9: age and it's beginning her manstrual period, and this is 493 00:29:59,236 --> 00:30:01,996 Speaker 9: not the time of her life to be put in 494 00:30:02,036 --> 00:30:10,716 Speaker 9: here with a black teacher, a male that one. 495 00:30:12,436 --> 00:30:14,396 Speaker 1: There's a limit to how many times a school board 496 00:30:14,676 --> 00:30:17,156 Speaker 1: is going to try and talk white tax paying parents 497 00:30:17,596 --> 00:30:20,836 Speaker 1: out of their fear of placing a menstruating adolescent in 498 00:30:20,916 --> 00:30:24,076 Speaker 1: class with a black teacher. Far easier just not to 499 00:30:24,156 --> 00:30:29,756 Speaker 1: hire any black teachers at all. 500 00:30:27,876 --> 00:30:32,516 Speaker 2: Dear Miss Buchanan, due to the present uncertainty about enrollment 501 00:30:32,596 --> 00:30:36,676 Speaker 2: next year in schools for Negro children, it is not 502 00:30:36,796 --> 00:30:40,836 Speaker 2: possible at this time to offer you employment for next year. 503 00:30:42,516 --> 00:30:45,236 Speaker 2: If the court should rule that segregation in the elementary 504 00:30:45,276 --> 00:30:49,996 Speaker 2: grades is unconstitutional, our board will proceed on the assumption 505 00:30:50,476 --> 00:30:52,916 Speaker 2: that the majority of people in Topeka will not want 506 00:30:52,956 --> 00:30:56,796 Speaker 2: to employ Negro teachers next year for white children. 507 00:31:01,836 --> 00:31:04,156 Speaker 1: I said at the beginning. The woman reading that letter 508 00:31:04,236 --> 00:31:06,956 Speaker 1: at the conference of the University of Michigan was a 509 00:31:06,996 --> 00:31:11,756 Speaker 1: missus Thompson. That's her married name. Her first name is Linda, 510 00:31:12,276 --> 00:31:15,356 Speaker 1: her maiden name is Brown. Linda Brown, the Brown of 511 00:31:15,436 --> 00:31:19,596 Speaker 1: Brown v. Topeak a Board of Education. This is the 512 00:31:19,636 --> 00:31:22,316 Speaker 1: little girl Oliver Brown tried and failed to enroll at 513 00:31:22,356 --> 00:31:26,316 Speaker 1: Sumner elementary school. She was invited to Michigan to speak 514 00:31:26,356 --> 00:31:29,156 Speaker 1: in celebration of the fiftieth anniversary of the Supreme Court 515 00:31:29,196 --> 00:31:32,316 Speaker 1: decision and what does Linda Brown Thompson. 516 00:31:32,396 --> 00:31:32,556 Speaker 9: Do. 517 00:31:33,476 --> 00:31:36,596 Speaker 1: In the middle of her talk, she interrupts her eyewitness 518 00:31:36,636 --> 00:31:41,036 Speaker 1: account to remind her audience who bore the cost of integration, 519 00:31:42,156 --> 00:31:44,556 Speaker 1: not white people, black people. 520 00:31:46,716 --> 00:31:48,796 Speaker 2: I think I understand that all of you must be 521 00:31:48,876 --> 00:31:53,676 Speaker 2: under considerable strength, and I sympathize with the uncertainties an 522 00:31:53,716 --> 00:31:58,396 Speaker 2: inconvenience which you must be experiencing during this period of adjustment. 523 00:32:00,156 --> 00:32:04,476 Speaker 2: I believe that whatever happens will ultimately turn out to 524 00:32:04,516 --> 00:32:12,716 Speaker 2: be the best for everyone. Concern yours, Wende Godwin, Superintendent 525 00:32:12,756 --> 00:32:13,436 Speaker 2: of Schools. 526 00:32:24,276 --> 00:32:27,956 Speaker 1: Revision's History is produced by Emil LaBelle and Jacob Smith, 527 00:32:28,076 --> 00:32:32,796 Speaker 1: with Camille Baptista, Stephanie Daniel, and Siomara Martinez White. Our 528 00:32:32,916 --> 00:32:37,396 Speaker 1: editor is Julia Barton. Lawn Williams is our engineer. Original 529 00:32:37,476 --> 00:32:41,076 Speaker 1: music by Luis Sciarra. Special thanks to Andy Bauers and 530 00:32:41,156 --> 00:32:44,116 Speaker 1: Jacob Weisberger Panople. I'm Malcolm Gladwell