1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: What I had to then learn was to be okay 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: with other people feeling uncomfortable and with other people questioning 3 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: why I'm so confident. 4 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,960 Speaker 2: Bozam a Saint John has shattered glass ceilings as one 5 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 2: of the most powerful marketing executives of her generation, leading 6 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 2: brands at Pepsi, Apple, Endeavor, and Netflix, and named the 7 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 2: number one most influential CMO in the world by force. 8 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: And walked into that board. What I told them first 9 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: was that my widow of three months, I am scared 10 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: the past is going to pull me under. I believe 11 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: that that day I didn't just win over employees, I 12 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:34,160 Speaker 1: won an army. 13 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 2: Now she's forging a new chapter, finding a second chance 14 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 2: at love and shattering stereotypes on reality TV. 15 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 1: Now why would you do that? Let's change this narrative 16 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: that women of this age don't know how to do 17 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: anything else but fight with each other and have conflict 18 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 1: in ways that are silly and petty. 19 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 2: And she's brought along the woman who taught her to 20 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 2: never shrink her mother. 21 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:58,279 Speaker 1: When I walk into rooms and people wonder why it 22 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: is that I don't tower, or or how it is 23 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: that I'm able to speak so strongly. 24 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 2: Join hosts Martin Luther King the Third, Andrea Waters, King, 25 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 2: Mark Kilberger and Craig Kilberger for a masterclass in confidence, 26 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 2: vulnerability and what it means to walk into any room 27 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 2: and refuse to be anyone but yourself. 28 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 3: So, what is the biggest lie that people believe about 29 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 3: success that often keeps them from becoming their greatest badass? 30 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:25,119 Speaker 1: I often tell people that. 31 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 4: Welcome to my Legacy. Today's guest is bose them as 32 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 4: Saint John, a woman who has redefined what it means 33 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 4: to be a marketing executive, a CEO, a mother, a 34 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 4: reality show star, TV host, and a force of nature. 35 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: Bows. 36 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 4: We are so thrilled to have you here, and as 37 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 4: always on My Legacy, our guest brings along someone who 38 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 4: has played an incredibly meaningful role in their lives. Bows, 39 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 4: would you do us the honor of introducing us to 40 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 4: your plus one? 41 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: Oh? Well, thank you so much for having me. It's 42 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: really quite an honor to be in this conversation. Even 43 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 1: before we've begun, I'm excited, but I am even more 44 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: excited because it's rare when I get an opportunity to 45 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: have these type of conversations with my plus one. My 46 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: plus one is my mother, who is the matriarch of 47 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: our family, the one who raised four incredible daughters, if 48 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: I do say so myself, but has had a lifetime 49 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 1: of entrepreneurship and family creating, family raising, and just a 50 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: real sense of self. You know, people often ask me 51 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: where I get my confidence from, and I would say 52 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 1: that it is almost entirely hers, you know, in the 53 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: way that she has walked through the world and has 54 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: raised children in a country that is not hers, but 55 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: has raised us with the belief that we below anywhere 56 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: in the world. And so when I walk into rooms 57 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 1: and people wonder why it is that I don't cower, 58 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,399 Speaker 1: or how it is that I'm able to speak so strongly, 59 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: is because I remember in seventh grade when my mom would, 60 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: you know, nudge me and say speak louder, you know, 61 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,399 Speaker 1: use your full voice. And also never let us forget 62 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: our Ghanian heritage. So my plus one is a is 63 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 1: a bid one. 64 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 5: Beautiful, amazing Mama Abba. You were born in Liberia to 65 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 5: Ghanaian parents, and when Bozma was twelve years old, you 66 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 5: finally settled in the United States. Can you share a 67 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 5: story of young Bosma that captured who she was? 68 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: Well? 69 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 6: When we came Bosma. Of course, she was born here, 70 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 6: and we left and came back, left and came back again. 71 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 6: And so when we eventually came, she was twelve. She 72 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 6: was good in Ghana anyway, so she was going to 73 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 6: do well wherever you know, she was at, and so 74 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 6: it didn't take care that long. Of course, we moved 75 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 6: into Colorado Springs, which was predominantly white Caucasian families, and 76 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 6: we were very minority, especially coming from Africa, where the 77 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 6: only four Ghanian family that was there. So you know, 78 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 6: she she did to me, she she did very. 79 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 1: Very well. 80 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 6: But also I was there to support, you know, in 81 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 6: any way that each one of them, and also with 82 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 6: her being the oldest, of course, she took up you know, 83 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,279 Speaker 6: the responsibility of her doing well so that her sisters 84 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 6: would also follow her full steps. So she's always been 85 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 6: a leader, she's always had a voice, she's always set 86 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 6: her opinion, and she's always done well. So I knew 87 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 6: she had some good stuff ahead of her. 88 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:01,359 Speaker 4: So it's so interesting. We both are the oldest of 89 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 4: four girls, so I kind of breaking through for everybody 90 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 4: that's that's coming after after you and the family and Bozma. 91 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 4: You've talked about growing up as the child of immigrants, 92 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,479 Speaker 4: and how the kids made you feel othered by making 93 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 4: fun of your hair, your your face, your skin. Can 94 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 4: you talk a little bit about that struggle and how 95 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 4: you built confidence despite that. 96 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: I think we can all identify because remember when you 97 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 1: were twelve and how you felt. None of us wanted 98 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 1: to be different from our classmates or our friends. I 99 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: think I speak for many people when you say you 100 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 1: when you were twelve, you were a little awkward, and 101 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 1: so for me that was very much the same. I 102 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:55,359 Speaker 1: didn't want to be different from my classmates. I wanted, 103 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: you know, to identify with them their still, their skin color, 104 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 1: their hair texture, the way that what they ate at home, 105 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: and all of those things. But my parents were very 106 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 1: proudly gone in. I had finally made it into the 107 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 1: cool girls group, you know, that infamous group of girls 108 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: who are the coolest in the school, and they're the 109 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: ones who everybody listens to and dresses like and wants 110 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: to sit next to at lunchtime. And they had finally 111 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 1: decided that I was worthy of being one of their number. 112 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 1: And when I was invited to one of their homes 113 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: with the group, I was very impressed by you know, 114 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 1: the array of snacks and drinks and you know TV 115 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 1: shows and the music we were listening to. I mean, 116 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 1: I was fascinated by all of it. I loved it. 117 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 1: And so then they became my turn to host them 118 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: at my house. And so I went to my mother 119 00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: and I told her the things that they had had 120 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: it there homes. You have the pizza and the Cheetos 121 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: and the you know, sodas and every manner of snack 122 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: leg Americana classic that I could tell her. And I 123 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: said I wanted those things, yes, so they would feel 124 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: comfortable when they came to our home. And she turned 125 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: to me, you know, very sternly, lovingly, but sternly, and said, no, 126 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: they're not going to have that. When they come to 127 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: our house. They will eat the food we eat. And 128 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: mind you, I was already self conscious, and so I thought, gosh, 129 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: you know, they're gonna come over here and they're not 130 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: going to know the names of these foods. They've never 131 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: eaten this before, and now I'm gonna feel even more othered, 132 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: you know, when I have just broken in to being accepted, 133 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: and she had made some plaisson you know fish which 134 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:57,679 Speaker 1: has you know, some tomatoes and onions and all manner 135 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: of seasonings on it, and I saw their little cheeks 136 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: get inflamed, okay, because it was pepper on it. I 137 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: was thinking, this is gonna be terrible. However, I can 138 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: confirm that my one of my best friends from that 139 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: time summer, who sounds exactly as her name describes, you know, 140 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: blonde with the green eyes and the whole thing, is 141 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: still one of my closest and dearest friends. Is She 142 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: came to visit at the end of last year and 143 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: she still asked for my mom's contomering as soon as 144 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: she walked in the door. Wow. And so while feeling 145 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 1: othered could have been something that made me feel less 146 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: than and certainly as a twelve year old, I didn't 147 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: have the information to know any better about not feeling 148 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:58,599 Speaker 1: badly about that. But my mother's resilience, her steadiness, her steelness, 149 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 1: her own pride, you know, and where we came from 150 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,559 Speaker 1: gave me something that I could not have articulated then. 151 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: But it is why when I'm in a boardroom and 152 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:16,199 Speaker 1: I'm making decisions that are influenced and you know, impacted 153 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: by where I come from or my blackness, you know 154 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:26,559 Speaker 1: that I don't cower because I know that my contribution 155 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,479 Speaker 1: is as important as anybody else's. 156 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 4: Well, that was such a powerful moment. I want to 157 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 4: have us back the mic drop. 158 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 5: No question. 159 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 3: I love hearing that story because we get to meet 160 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 3: you again, like the world knows you as this incredible 161 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 3: icon in television and marketing. But the reason why shamelessly 162 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:48,959 Speaker 3: I love this podcast is because we get to meet 163 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 3: the hero behind the hero, and I love what that 164 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 3: story tells about this incredible woman. You're plus one who 165 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 3: shaped who you are, and so you know, I'm going 166 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 3: back to you. Bosma has talked about how you raised 167 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 3: four daughters with the expectation that excellence is a baseline, 168 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 3: but she also wrote that you taught them about forgiveness. 169 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 3: How did you teach your daughters to be focused on 170 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,319 Speaker 3: excellence with help being too hard on themselves? 171 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 6: They were raising their family in a Christian home, so 172 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 6: as as Christians, you know, the basic thing is forgiveness. 173 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 6: That you forgive you love, and so that has always 174 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 6: been you know something that I've always modeled even now 175 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 6: that if you don't forgive to me, if you don't forgive, 176 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 6: you are holding yourself hostage to you know, whatever feelings 177 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 6: you have towards the other person, whereas when you forgive, 178 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 6: you become free, you know, to do what you need 179 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 6: to do for yourself. 180 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 4: Your daughter also had to walk in these boardrooms right where, 181 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 4: and bows know that you said earlier in your career 182 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 4: that you had to learn to take credit for your 183 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 4: work without apology. And that's something that so many women 184 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 4: struggle with. And was there a specific moment when you 185 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:16,319 Speaker 4: had to decide am I going to shrink or am 186 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 4: I going to speak up? 187 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 1: Hmmm? Oh gosh. There were so many moments along the 188 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 1: way where I have felt the tension, you know, between 189 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 1: not wanting to appear arrogant. Yeah, because you can be 190 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: named arrogant when you take a you know, credit for 191 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,439 Speaker 1: the work that you do. Because a lot of times 192 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: in corporate spaces you're taught to use we instead of I. 193 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: You know, we accomplished this, we made this, we concepted this, 194 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: we analyzed this, instead of I did this and I 195 00:11:55,400 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: analyzed that. And my opinion is yo, And so I 196 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: had to learn that lesson many times along the way. 197 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 1: And I think, just going back to the point that 198 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: Craig also made about excellence being the baseline, I think 199 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 1: that has actually been the thread, you know, that allowed 200 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: me to take credit for my own work. And so 201 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 1: as I developed in my career, the tension that I 202 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 1: was feeling wasn't born for me. It was born externally, 203 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 1: you know, that tension of being afraid to take credit 204 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: for the work because I'd been raised to take credit 205 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: for my work. I've been raised to be proud of 206 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: my excellence, and so it made other people feel uncomfortable 207 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: when I appeared that way, you know, even at twenty two, 208 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: twenty three, you know, my first jobs, I think there 209 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: were a lot of people who wondered why the lowest 210 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: person on the totem pole felt that she was excellent, 211 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,079 Speaker 1: you know, But I never questioned that. And so the 212 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,319 Speaker 1: the tension that I felt was from other people's uncomfortability 213 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: with my own knowledge of my excellence. It wasn't my 214 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: own tension. And so what I had to then learn 215 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:16,680 Speaker 1: was to be okay with other people feeling uncomfortable and 216 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: with other people questioning why I'm so confident and so 217 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: comfortable in my excellence. So I think that, you know, 218 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,319 Speaker 1: the bar that was set at such an early age 219 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: for excellence just became a part of my DNA and Therefore, 220 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 1: it wasn't anything that was strange for me once I 221 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 1: walked into rooms where other people expected me to bow 222 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: my head and be quote unquote humble. I know exactly 223 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 1: what I'm good at, and I'm okay with my excellence. 224 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:51,679 Speaker 4: And are you passing that same thing onto your daughter? 225 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: Right? Is it such a complicated question because I think 226 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: for all of us as parents, while there are many 227 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: things said, I'm like, oh, my parents were so great 228 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: at X, Y and Z, ving, you become your own 229 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: type of parent, you know, and there's some things that 230 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: you do differently. I think the baseline for me is 231 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 1: the expectation of excellence for my daughter as well, you know, 232 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: in that she doesn't have to have the same type 233 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: of mastery of topics or interests that I do. You know, 234 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: even when she was little and I was you know, 235 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: she's now sixteen. But I remember, you know, when I 236 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: won an award from Billboard as the Executive of the 237 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: Year and she came to the award ceremony. It was 238 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: in this you know, huge room, hundreds of people in 239 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: the audience and lights and cameras, and the camera would 240 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: pan to her, you know, and she was probably six 241 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 1: or yeah, I think she was six years old. And 242 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: afterwards we were in you know, getting interviewed, and the 243 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: journalist asked her, oh, do you want to be like 244 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: your mom when you grow up? And I blenched at 245 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: the question, you know, because I was like, wait, hold on, 246 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: I don't want her to feel like she has to 247 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: live up to what I have done, you know, And 248 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: you know I won't. I won't even look at Martin 249 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: when I when I say that, yeah, Mark, expectation is high, 250 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: you know. And so I do raise her with the 251 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: expectation of excellence, but not at comparison to myself. 252 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 3: There is this powerful quote. I wrote it down. I 253 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 3: just want to let all of our listeners and viewers 254 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 3: sit in it for a second. Other people were uncomfortable 255 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 3: with the fact that I had the knowledge of my excellence. 256 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 3: It's true people can be intimidated by that. To have 257 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 3: the knowledge of who you are, the fact that your 258 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 3: mom raised you and your parents raised you to have 259 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 3: that knowledge is just deeply powerful. And I love that 260 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 3: you're modeling that for others. In fact, for all of 261 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 3: our listeners and viewers who aren't a where a Harvard 262 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 3: Business school published a case study a but your career 263 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 3: called leading with authenticity and urgency and then I love this. 264 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 3: You taught a program at Harvard called the Anatomy of 265 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 3: a Badass Like what a great name? Like just putting 266 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 3: that out there, and I feel like people hear you, 267 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 3: and they hear people who as a successful you and 268 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 3: a lot of our listeners of course to know the 269 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 3: young aspire, but there's that voice, a voice that kind 270 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 3: of holds them back a little bit. So what is 271 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 3: the biggest lie that people believe about success that often 272 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 3: keeps them from becoming their greatest badass self? 273 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: Yes? Oh well, Craig. First, first of all, let me 274 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: tell you that there was quite a conversation at Harvard 275 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: when I submitted that. I imagine, yeah, it was. It was. 276 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: It was real tense there for a second. You know. 277 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: They were like, we don't know that we can actually 278 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: put this in the syllabus, and I said, why not? 279 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: What it was? The problem? You know, I often tell 280 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: people that regardless of where you are in your career, 281 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,640 Speaker 1: however it is that you are behaving now, is how 282 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 1: you'll behave when you reach whatever pinnacle it is that 283 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: you're deciding to go to powerful that if you are 284 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: you know, trying to crowd please, and you are just 285 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 1: trying to get along, and you are you know, trying 286 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: to remain sort of under the radar just so that 287 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 1: you can quote unquote make it without causing too much 288 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 1: ruffled feathers. You will be that kind of leader when 289 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: you get to the top. You know, you're not going 290 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:41,159 Speaker 1: to be the disruptive one. You're not going to be 291 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 1: the one that changes history and the world. You're not 292 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 1: going to be that person because you're not practiced at it. 293 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: And if you think it gets easier as you become 294 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: more successful, who I have some terrible news for you. 295 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 1: You know, it just becomes harder. The spotlight is bigger, 296 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 1: the expectations are so much much stricter, and so however 297 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: it is that you are behaving today is how you 298 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: will behave in success. And so I think it's actually 299 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 1: really important that people practice success. You know that if 300 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: you feel like you're not successful right now, will choose 301 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: a goal that feels closer to where you are right 302 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: now and achieve it and feel the success in it, 303 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: and then practice to get to the next level of success, 304 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: and then the next level of success, and then next 305 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: level of success. If the idea of success to you 306 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 1: is miles down the road. If it is a mountaintop, 307 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 1: that is, you know you've got to climb everest, then 308 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 1: you may not ever feel like you reach it, and 309 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: you'll just be plodding along trying to make something of 310 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 1: yourself without being practiced in success. So I think that's 311 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: really the misunderstanding that people have a success is that 312 00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,439 Speaker 1: it is not overnight, and you have to practice it 313 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: before you get there. Practice success. 314 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 5: I like that Bose. You've you've had, you know, so 315 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:13,679 Speaker 5: so much success, but you've also had incredible loss. I 316 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 5: want to talk a little bit about Peter, your first husband, 317 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 5: who passed away from cancer when your daughter was only 318 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 5: four years old. His obituary said, Peter and Bozeman's love 319 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 5: was one for the ages. What did those final months 320 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 5: with Peter teach you and how did it change the 321 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:38,400 Speaker 5: way you live now? 322 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 1: M M, my goodness it. You know, I've I've inherited 323 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 1: the spirit of spontaneity from my dad, who you know 324 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,119 Speaker 1: oftentimes and my mother has better stories than I do 325 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,919 Speaker 1: about this, but oftentimes we make decisions that felt like 326 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: he just woke up one day and decided to go 327 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: do this thing. And you're like, wait, that changes our 328 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:09,439 Speaker 1: whole life, you know. And for a long time I 329 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: didn't like that inheritance, you know. I wanted to be 330 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 1: more thoughtful, more steadied. My mother makes decisions and she 331 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: plans and then executes. I want to be more like that. 332 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: But I found that often I'd wake up and then 333 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: it was like it was almost uncontrollable. It's like I 334 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: want to do this thing right now, and then I 335 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: go and do it without much thought, you know, sometimes 336 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,360 Speaker 1: with some success and a lot of times to failure. 337 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,199 Speaker 1: But it was during those last months with Peter that 338 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 1: I started to really understand what spontaneity means for long 339 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: term happiness and joy in your life. But I will 340 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 1: tell you that it was such a gift to be 341 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: able to know the end was coming and to be 342 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: urgent about life because we knew the end was coming. 343 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,160 Speaker 1: Wouldn't it just be a miracle if all of us 344 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: understood that and therefore actually lived our lives like that? 345 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: That the urgency in my life is not built out 346 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: of a morbid and sad tale. It's built out of 347 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: this practice that Peter and I had in those final 348 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 1: months to do everything that we could. You know when 349 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: I was standing in the receiving line at his funeral, 350 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,159 Speaker 1: lay out, sometimes in my arms, sometimes wrapped around my legs, 351 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: and a person after person after person, you know, shook 352 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 1: my hand or gave me a hug and said, I'm 353 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: so sorry. You know, he died so young. He died 354 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: four days before his forty fourth birthday. And while I 355 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: that he died too young, it also made me pause 356 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 1: about what living means, or what it looks like and 357 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: how we can do it, yo, that his death didn't 358 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: make me afraid of death. It made me more appreciative 359 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 1: of living. And what I learned in those months leading 360 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,239 Speaker 1: up to his death and then the months following it 361 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,879 Speaker 1: and the years following it has been that none of 362 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 1: us know when we're gonna go right, None of us do. However, 363 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: shouldn't we be inspired by that to actually live life 364 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: right now? Yo? That we say things like, oh, you know, 365 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: I'll get to that in six months. Well, Peter died 366 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: within six months of learning of his disease, So why 367 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 1: would you wait? Yo? And so what I have learned 368 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 1: in that time that taught me urgency in life, helped 369 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 1: me appreciate the spontaneity of my spirit is that regardless 370 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 1: of when it is that I go, I want people 371 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: to look at my life and be like, wow, that 372 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 1: girl lived. My God, she had a life. Whoo she 373 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: did some things, didn't she? You know? Because I may 374 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:20,160 Speaker 1: not accomplish everything that I want to, because I believe 375 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,120 Speaker 1: that I'll be that ninety six year old who still 376 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 1: has a list of things that she wants to do. However, 377 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,199 Speaker 1: if I go sometime before then, I still want people 378 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: to look at my daughter, looked at the loved ones 379 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 1: I leave behind, and say, who that woman, what a 380 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 1: life she lived? 381 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 5: Powerful Mama Alba as a mother, how did you help 382 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,719 Speaker 5: your daughter through that heartbreaking loss? 383 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 6: So I moved to New Jersey and then you know, 384 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:56,719 Speaker 6: we both actually got sick around the same time, and 385 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,400 Speaker 6: so I was very close by. And what I said, 386 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 6: and I still say, is that if I wasn't there, 387 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 6: what would I have done being so far away? But 388 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 6: it was so good to be really close by Jesse, 389 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 6: New Jersey, and. 390 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 1: So I kept on. 391 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 6: In fact, when he took his last breath, I was 392 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:20,920 Speaker 6: there with Bosma and his parents and his sister Elua. 393 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 6: So I was able to be there, you know, just 394 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 6: just a stone through a way to be there the 395 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 6: whole time, so that that was very comforting, you know, 396 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 6: for me, and also to know that I really was 397 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 6: there to be able to hold her hands, to give 398 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 6: a hug, you know, whenever she needed it or so 399 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 6: that's that's what happened. 400 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 1: I was close. I was very very close by. 401 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 4: And you said that you were sick at the same 402 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 4: time as well. Yes, so, Bowls, you were dealing with 403 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:58,360 Speaker 4: both your husband and your mom at the same time. 404 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, my mom was diagnosed with her cancer first and 405 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: had started treatment, and then about three months later, Peter 406 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: was diagnosed with his cancer, and so I was running 407 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,880 Speaker 1: between Memorials Slone Kettering, which is in New York, and 408 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: the hospital my mom was getting treated in in New Jersey, 409 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: while also holding down my full time job at PepsiCo 410 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 1: and also mothering my four year old daughter. And it 411 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 1: was a challenging time to say the least. Yes, I'm 412 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,159 Speaker 1: sure you're looking at me and saying, how did you 413 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: even manage it? How did you do it? But there's 414 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: so many of us who are juggling responsibilities and grief 415 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: and oh the stress of it all. And I hope 416 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: that part of what people see when they look at 417 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: me now is a walking testimony the other so that 418 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 1: it is possible, it is absolutely possible to have all 419 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 1: of these things happen to you, to feel like a 420 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: victim in your life. Ye, Because let me tell you, 421 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: I'll be honest, there were many times when I looked 422 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: up to the heavens and I said, God, like, really, like, 423 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:19,199 Speaker 1: why why does this have to be happening to me? Yeah? Yo? 424 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: But although God and I argued many times in that 425 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: I do live in such gratitude, you know, for the 426 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: experiences that have both been devastating and one those have 427 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: been uplifting, because I really do hope that my life 428 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: is a walking testimony the people will look at me 429 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: and say, oh, it's possible to still live a fulfilled life, 430 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:52,120 Speaker 1: to still have a successful life, to still be happy 431 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:57,680 Speaker 1: in it, even when you faced such hardship. 432 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 4: Might I say the answer to that is a strong affirmative. 433 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,479 Speaker 4: And you know, it's interesting. We were with miss Sheila 434 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 4: Johnson last week. She's the first black well maybe not 435 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 4: the first, but black female billionaire. But her company is Salamander, 436 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 4: her hotels and her and she chose that because that 437 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 4: is the only animal that can walk through fire and survive. 438 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,120 Speaker 4: And so what I am seeing with both of you 439 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 4: are two beautiful, bold salamanders. And now let's talk about 440 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 4: walking through fire. I'm gonna jump to the Real Housewives. 441 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 4: I don't know how to make competitorans, but I know 442 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 4: that you've talked about how meaningful it is to show 443 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 4: single black motherhood on Real Housewives franchise. Yes, what has 444 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 4: your daughter taught you? 445 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:05,680 Speaker 1: Because she was four when Peter died. I was looking 446 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 1: at the years ahead with complete fear right and this 447 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 1: feeling overwhelmed, like, how am I going to do this 448 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: by myself. I didn't sign up to be a single parent. 449 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: I don't know how to do this. And at the 450 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 1: same time, my career was taking off like a rocket ship, 451 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: you know. I moved us from New York to Los 452 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 1: Angeles at that time. Peter had been dead about three 453 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: months four months when we moved to become the head 454 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: of marketing for Beats, which was of course created by 455 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: doctor dre and Jimmy Iving. Four months after I arrived 456 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: at Beats, we got acquired by Apple, and then I 457 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: became the head of marketing for iTunes and started to 458 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: build Apple Music. It was just a chaotic time you know, 459 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: while also dealing with the first year anniversaries of all 460 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 1: of the things, you know, the first without Peter, the 461 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: first Father's here, the first Mother's Day without Peter. You know, 462 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: it was like this hit after hit after hit while 463 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: trying to achieve. And there was one very poignant night where, 464 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: you know, she climbed into my bed. I was sitting 465 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: up stressed, couldn't sleep, and I looked over at her 466 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: and she was so soundly asleep, you know, and I 467 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: was so terrified, and I woke her up. You know, 468 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: this is like a big parenting fail, right, never wake 469 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 1: a sleeping child. But I woke her up, you know, 470 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 1: and I looked at her and it was like desperation 471 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 1: that I was just like, I was like, I don't 472 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 1: know what to do. So I don't know how to 473 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: raise you. I don't know how to do by myself. 474 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: I don't know why I said that to her, but 475 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: she just looked at me with her little sleepy eyes 476 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: and she just said okay, she said okay, you know, 477 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: and I think I tell that story because I didn't 478 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: know why I needed to do that, but her okay 479 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: was Oh. It was like a release. I felt like 480 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: I had been given permission to not know how to 481 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: do this, to not be perfect. And so in the 482 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: months following that, I mean when I tell you, it 483 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: was a big sigh of relief, like okay, okay, you 484 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: went to sleep. And so I changed from trying to 485 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: manage her in my life to managing with her in 486 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: my life. 487 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 4: So I'm very curious, Like, you had this phenomenal career 488 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 4: in the c suite, what made you say yes to 489 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 4: a reality show? 490 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 6: Yeah? 491 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 1: Well, you know. So here's the thing. When I was 492 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: in the corporate jobs, people were always you know, admiring 493 00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: that I was one of one or one of few, 494 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 1: or you know, the first black woman to do this, 495 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 1: and the first, I mean it was it became a 496 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: little overwhelming because it was like, Okay, I get it, 497 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 1: I understand, you know enough. And while I don't mean 498 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: that to be flippant, because it wasn't easy to break 499 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 1: those glass ceilings and you know, be first in rooms, 500 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: I knew that when I was done with that corporate life, 501 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: I was done. You know, that I had achieved what 502 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: I needed to achieve. There's nothing left to prove to anybody. 503 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: And as I looked at the landscape of TV and film. 504 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: You know, I'm not one of those people that pretend 505 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 1: they don't watch TV. I love TV. I love storytelling. 506 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 1: You know, that is why I'm a marketer and why 507 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: I love to tell stories. I know how influential those 508 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: stories are. I know how they change politics, and how 509 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 1: they change society, and how they change your own self understanding. 510 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: You know, stories are so important, And as I looked around, 511 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 1: some of the most power stories that are told today 512 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 1: are in reality You know that we believe we're seeing unscripted, uh, 513 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 1: unscripted stories of people. You know, it's because when you 514 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: watch a film or you watch you know, scandal or something, 515 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 1: you know that somebody wrote it and it's not real. 516 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: But if you're looking at reality TV, you're looking at 517 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 1: people and saying, oh, okay, this is what this type 518 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: of person does. And when I looked at the landscape 519 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 1: and I was approached by NBCU and Bravo to join 520 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 1: the Housewives, I looked at that landscape and I said, 521 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: I don't see myself. You know, I don't see that. 522 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: I don't see the story of the corporate battie. I 523 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 1: don't I don't see the self made black woman you 524 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 1: know who, Yes, I love fashion and you don't say 525 00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: love I love a good shop like the next month, 526 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: all right, But also the complexity of this life. You know. 527 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: It's like, yes, I've been successful in business, I have 528 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 1: made my own money, you know, And so where are 529 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 1: those women represented in that story, not just that you're 530 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 1: married into it, but that you made it, you know. 531 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 1: And again it's like no shade and no down to 532 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 1: anybody who's married into it, But where are we represented? 533 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 3: You know? 534 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 1: And then the all other complexity, which I think is 535 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: something that people don't give you enough credit to, is 536 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 1: that women who are in their forties and fifties are 537 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: such a unique time in life, you know, where it's 538 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 1: like you're dealing with the complexities of sometimes long relationships 539 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: that may be faltering, or you know, growing children who 540 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 1: are at injunctions in their life, inflection points, aging parents, 541 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: you know, and then you're dealing with your girlfriends. There's 542 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 1: a lot on on and so. 543 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 4: Ohhones don't and your daughter's hormones at the same. 544 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 1: Time, hormone everybody's home, every everyone was going off. But 545 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: I really did feel like, you know, a lot of 546 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,719 Speaker 1: times in my career when people have said, oh, why 547 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 1: did you go do that job. Yeah, well, because I 548 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:21,920 Speaker 1: was the only one who would go do it, you know. 549 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 1: And then after I was successful, people be like, oh, 550 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 1: of course that makes it. That have total sense, you know. 551 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: And so now it's like I joined Housewives and at 552 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:31,839 Speaker 1: first people are like, man, why would you do that? 553 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,759 Speaker 1: You want to go on TV and fight with women? 554 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 1: And I was like, why do I have to do that? 555 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:37,400 Speaker 1: What do you mean? I don't have to do that, 556 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: you know, I can. I can represent myself, represent conflicts 557 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,880 Speaker 1: resolution very well, you know, and tell the story of 558 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: women who are like me. And on top of that, 559 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 1: now that I've been successful at doing that, and I'm 560 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 1: in my second season and people are excited to see 561 00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: me as a quote unquote breath of fresh air, I'm like, well, 562 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: of course we can so bring more, you know, let's see, 563 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 1: let's see more women like that, and let's change this 564 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 1: narrative that women of this age don't know how to 565 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: do anything else but fight with each other and have 566 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: conflict in ways that are silly and petty. 567 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:23,279 Speaker 4: For everything that you've done in this world and for 568 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:29,359 Speaker 4: standing so boldly in your excellence and brilliance, but particularly 569 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 4: as a woman and as a black woman who are 570 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 4: Society teach us all too often to shrink and to 571 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:41,840 Speaker 4: stay small, and so the fact the forging that path 572 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 4: of being bold and brilliant and unapologetic in that thank you, Scrolling. 573 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 3: Won't change your life, but subscribing just might tap that 574 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 3: button and stay connected to conversations. 575 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 6: That kept. 576 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:56,320 Speaker 1: Bose. 577 00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 5: You know, you've recently announced your engagement to k watched 578 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 5: the congratulations. 579 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank You. 580 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,759 Speaker 5: You've talked about dating as an alpha female and how 581 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,320 Speaker 5: that comes with its own challenges. What were you looking 582 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 5: for in a partner and how did you know Keeley 583 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 5: was the one? 584 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 1: Mmmm? Yeah, Well I haven't always you know, obviously had 585 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 1: the success I have, you know, in my in my 586 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 1: first marriage, I met Peter when I was twenty three. 587 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,840 Speaker 1: We got married when I was twenty six, and so 588 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:35,759 Speaker 1: I was just at the beginnings of my career. Now 589 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 1: I would argue that I've always been an alpha woman, 590 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 1: but I didn't yet have the the badges and the receipts, 591 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:49,600 Speaker 1: and now I do, so I'm a little Yeah, there's 592 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:51,399 Speaker 1: a big difference. It's a big difference when you feel 593 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,279 Speaker 1: like you're alpha and then you can prove it, you know, 594 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 1: And I think there's a couple of challenges, you know, 595 00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:03,080 Speaker 1: for me in dating when you know, especially after Peter 596 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 1: died one. You know, I think for anyone who's a 597 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: widow or widower, you know that, you know, once your 598 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:12,160 Speaker 1: partner goes, they become a saint in your eyes. You 599 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,040 Speaker 1: know they're up here. You forget that they never picked 600 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:16,759 Speaker 1: up their socks so that you yelled at them for 601 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 1: you know, any little thing that annoyed you, you know, 602 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, now they is untouchable. Peter became 603 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 1: that for me. You know, all I remembered were the 604 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,319 Speaker 1: good things, the things that he did that were just 605 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:34,719 Speaker 1: woof above the cut, and so it became difficult for 606 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 1: a mortal man to live up to those expectations. Being 607 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,799 Speaker 1: on top of that, I have a very impressionable daughter 608 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:49,880 Speaker 1: who I don't want to, you know, see any relationship 609 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,760 Speaker 1: with her mother that is not also of the highest caliber. 610 00:37:54,840 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 1: But those expectations and that kind of boundary made me 611 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:05,880 Speaker 1: a very lonely woman, you know, and I think I 612 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:07,840 Speaker 1: reached the point in my life where I just realized, 613 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, like I I don't 614 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,680 Speaker 1: want to actually spend the rest of my life without 615 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,879 Speaker 1: romantic love. You know, I have plenty of platonic love. 616 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 1: I have love of my mother, I have love of 617 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,000 Speaker 1: my daughter, I have love of great friends. But I 618 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:26,799 Speaker 1: also wanted romantic love. And I knew at the same 619 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,960 Speaker 1: time that I couldn't also change my makeup, you know, 620 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 1: to be anything other than myself. And so I prayed 621 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:40,240 Speaker 1: a lot about who God would bring into my life. 622 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:44,279 Speaker 1: Who could celebrate me where I am and where I've been. 623 00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:48,280 Speaker 1: Who could encourage me to where I'm going, because oh, 624 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:53,399 Speaker 1: I'm not even yet done. Who could contribute to not 625 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,919 Speaker 1: just my life but my daughter's life. Who would pray 626 00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 1: with me, you know? Who would love my parents the 627 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: way I I love my parents. Who would love my 628 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 1: culture the way I love my culture? And Kily Watson 629 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 1: came along, you know, and for many reasons I said yes, 630 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:16,239 Speaker 1: But I will say that the main things were that one, 631 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:20,719 Speaker 1: he loves my daughter very much, you know, calls my 632 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:25,960 Speaker 1: mom mom, calls my dad dad. He became a Ganian 633 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:30,680 Speaker 1: citizen mm hm. And I think you know, the part 634 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:33,600 Speaker 1: about the career and being alpha, because that's usually where 635 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:38,200 Speaker 1: you know you're described, is that he doesn't compete with me. 636 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,840 Speaker 1: You know, he is very successful in his own lane, 637 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 1: but he encourages and he supports and he champions and 638 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:51,840 Speaker 1: that perhaps is the biggest difference maker for me, is 639 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,560 Speaker 1: a man who's willing to champion me and not compete 640 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:57,279 Speaker 1: with me. Hm. 641 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:02,439 Speaker 5: Wow, Well may have was the moment that Kiley won you. 642 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:09,640 Speaker 6: Over when when he came to Ghana on his third date. 643 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,319 Speaker 6: I met him for the first time, not here, but 644 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:20,799 Speaker 6: in Ghana told me about him and she said he 645 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:25,400 Speaker 6: was coming, and then he he came, So I knew 646 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,880 Speaker 6: you were serious and he just adapted to everything around 647 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,640 Speaker 6: him and uh yeah, So that that. 648 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,200 Speaker 1: Was great early on that was third date. 649 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:35,640 Speaker 3: Wow. 650 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,440 Speaker 1: Exactly, we had had two dates and he said, you know, 651 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:42,960 Speaker 1: you want to go out again and I said, well, 652 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:44,920 Speaker 1: I'm going to be in in Ghana, you know, for 653 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:46,920 Speaker 1: about a month. And he was like, why can't the 654 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:51,799 Speaker 1: date being Ghana? Well then come on then, and he did. 655 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:52,640 Speaker 5: Wow. 656 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:53,720 Speaker 3: Wow. 657 00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,719 Speaker 4: I know that you've been open to Bowls about your 658 00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:03,040 Speaker 4: fertility struggles on the show and that you and Keighley 659 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 4: look into expanding your family, and that's such a deeply 660 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,719 Speaker 4: personal thing to share. What made you decide to let 661 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,960 Speaker 4: the camera into that part of your lives and what 662 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,480 Speaker 4: do you hope that other women take from watching it? 663 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,640 Speaker 1: Yes, well I will tell you that again. You know, 664 00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:22,799 Speaker 1: this goes back to what we were talking about before 665 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,759 Speaker 1: about being practiced. You know, I've had a lot of 666 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,640 Speaker 1: practice in the last fifteen years of being in the 667 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:35,000 Speaker 1: corporate spotlight, you know, on sharing my personal you know, 668 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:37,319 Speaker 1: because I think a lot of times what happens is 669 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,759 Speaker 1: that leaders believe that they should have the wall up, 670 00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:44,719 Speaker 1: you know, so that they seem perfect. But that's not 671 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,520 Speaker 1: what wins people to your side. You know. I think 672 00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,920 Speaker 1: many times people follow leaders because they have empathy for 673 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,600 Speaker 1: the leader, you know, not just fear. And so I 674 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:59,520 Speaker 1: have been very open for a long time about all 675 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,280 Speaker 1: aspects of my life, and you know, I think sometimes 676 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:05,360 Speaker 1: people will be like, oh, well, you shouldn't overshare, and 677 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:06,200 Speaker 1: I'm like, but why. 678 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:06,960 Speaker 2: You know. 679 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,719 Speaker 1: What happens is that if people don't know what is 680 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:11,600 Speaker 1: going on with you, then how can they help you. 681 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,720 Speaker 1: And so many of us are afraid to look weak 682 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,040 Speaker 1: because we need help. And perhaps I mean that's really 683 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,959 Speaker 1: where the strength is, is the ability to ask for help. 684 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,600 Speaker 1: And so even going back to when Peter died, you know, 685 00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,319 Speaker 1: and I walked into that boardroom of beats the very 686 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:32,200 Speaker 1: first time, and it was overcrowded with you know, the 687 00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:35,680 Speaker 1: new members of my team and other hangers on who 688 00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:37,759 Speaker 1: want to see who this person was. I was coming 689 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,640 Speaker 1: to take over, and what I told them first was that, 690 00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:45,000 Speaker 1: you know, I'm a widow of three months and I 691 00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:49,239 Speaker 1: am scared that the past is going to pull me under. 692 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:51,640 Speaker 1: And so part of the reason I was there and 693 00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:55,000 Speaker 1: in that room and taking this big leap of faith 694 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,360 Speaker 1: was to fight for something in the future that I 695 00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:02,640 Speaker 1: could hang onto that would pull me forward. And I 696 00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,640 Speaker 1: believe that that day I didn't just went over employees. 697 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,919 Speaker 1: I won an army you know of people who would 698 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,560 Speaker 1: go to battle for me because they knew that they 699 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,960 Speaker 1: had to keep me uplifted in order for me to 700 00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:20,040 Speaker 1: keep going. And many of those people are still friends today, 701 00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:22,080 Speaker 1: you know, still people who call me to this day 702 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,000 Speaker 1: to check up momy or to wish me happy birthday. 703 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:28,680 Speaker 1: And so coming onto the housewives, I was not afraid 704 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:33,399 Speaker 1: to share the very vulnerable, very personal things, because people 705 00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 1: will judge you, people will talk about you. You know, 706 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,400 Speaker 1: even in this fertility journey. You know, I've had the 707 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,640 Speaker 1: critics who have said, ah, but you're too old, you know, 708 00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:46,839 Speaker 1: shouldn't you just sit down somewhere and like, ah, yeah, 709 00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:49,840 Speaker 1: if you only knew the number of people who have, 710 00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:54,840 Speaker 1: you know, slid into my dms and who've commented on posts, 711 00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,719 Speaker 1: who have said thank you so much for sharing. I'm 712 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,120 Speaker 1: in the same position, or I'm you know, in my 713 00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,880 Speaker 1: early forties and I'm starting and I wasn't sure that 714 00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,560 Speaker 1: I could make it, but watching you tell it, you know, 715 00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,400 Speaker 1: and I'm given the good, the bad, and the ugly. 716 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,680 Speaker 1: You know, I'm like, I'm bloated, I'm irritable. Okay, you 717 00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:18,080 Speaker 1: know you probably don't want to talk to me on 718 00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,840 Speaker 1: certain days. But I feel like the importance again of 719 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,640 Speaker 1: storytelling is that we are honest in our human experience. 720 00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,920 Speaker 1: You know, They're so there are far many more people 721 00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,000 Speaker 1: who will identify with you if they know who you 722 00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:36,799 Speaker 1: are as a human. You know, and this also, you know, 723 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:38,920 Speaker 1: hearkens back to when I was twelve and moved to 724 00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:42,279 Speaker 1: the US, is that, you know, we think that because 725 00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:44,920 Speaker 1: of our differences, we can't get along, you know, or 726 00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:48,000 Speaker 1: that we don't have anything to talk about. But the 727 00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,560 Speaker 1: most interesting thing is that we as human beings are 728 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,799 Speaker 1: so curious about each other, and so the more that 729 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,640 Speaker 1: we share. The more that you have people who are 730 00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:58,560 Speaker 1: interested in who you are, the more that they're interested 731 00:44:58,560 --> 00:44:59,960 Speaker 1: in who you are, the better to get to know you. 732 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:01,839 Speaker 1: The better to get to know you, the better they 733 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,440 Speaker 1: can advocate for you and love you. And so it 734 00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:09,520 Speaker 1: is a practice of being more human. So I'm not 735 00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,279 Speaker 1: afraid of my own vulnerability as a human because that's 736 00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:13,800 Speaker 1: the way that I connect to other people. 737 00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:19,680 Speaker 5: Mama Abba, you turned seventy four in October, and you 738 00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:24,479 Speaker 5: want a mission to see all seven continents? Yes, as 739 00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:29,319 Speaker 5: a two time cancer survivor what do you want your 740 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:33,120 Speaker 5: daughters to know about how to live a full life 741 00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:35,480 Speaker 5: at every age? 742 00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,719 Speaker 6: Well, I think they see me, you know, do it, 743 00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:43,759 Speaker 6: and so I'm there for them. They encourage me. In fact, 744 00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:45,640 Speaker 6: one thing was much to ask me all the time 745 00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,520 Speaker 6: is that not only don't I look at but I 746 00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:52,879 Speaker 6: don't act like it either. So I don't know whether 747 00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:55,560 Speaker 6: it's a compliment or it's not, but I take it 748 00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:56,480 Speaker 6: as a compliment. 749 00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:58,719 Speaker 1: And so I love to. 750 00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:02,960 Speaker 6: Travel and I want to see other places, see other people. 751 00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,640 Speaker 6: To me, this is God's world and as much as 752 00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:12,120 Speaker 6: I can see, the better for me. So that's why 753 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:15,719 Speaker 6: I want. I want to see those places and I 754 00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,839 Speaker 6: have the energy for it. So I'm going for it 755 00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:22,319 Speaker 6: and I'm ready to go to Antarctica. Whoever wants to 756 00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:23,239 Speaker 6: come with me too. 757 00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:29,279 Speaker 3: Bosma, thank you for this just deeply honest and personal 758 00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:32,840 Speaker 3: conversation and to some of the words that left with 759 00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:37,000 Speaker 3: me here. His death made me not afraid of dying, 760 00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:41,680 Speaker 3: but made me more appreciative of living. Life is a 761 00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:46,560 Speaker 3: walking testimony. And I want people to say, Wow, what 762 00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,640 Speaker 3: a life she lived. And I think all of us, 763 00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:54,719 Speaker 3: but every listener and viewer is in wow, what a 764 00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,520 Speaker 3: life she lived, and so blah blah blah. Thank you 765 00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,840 Speaker 3: for giving this extraordinary foundation of excellence and things and strength, 766 00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:04,160 Speaker 3: and you survive cancer twice and at seventy four you're 767 00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:07,640 Speaker 3: still showing your daughters what it means to live so fully. 768 00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:12,080 Speaker 3: And Bozma, thank you for this incredible example about resilience 769 00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,160 Speaker 3: and about what you choose to do. It's you know, 770 00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,160 Speaker 3: we often say that life is about resilience, but the 771 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:21,640 Speaker 3: truth is, at times it is about breaking and about 772 00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:24,440 Speaker 3: what you choose to do after breaking, and to love 773 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:29,520 Speaker 3: again and to teach all people to take up space. 774 00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,200 Speaker 3: And I love this to embrace their bad assness. No 775 00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:34,680 Speaker 3: matter what, however, might think, that is the most awesome title. 776 00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:37,800 Speaker 3: And so thank you both for your courage, your grace, 777 00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,759 Speaker 3: and as we say on this show, for living your 778 00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:43,719 Speaker 3: legacies every single day. 779 00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:47,080 Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. This has really been such an honor. 780 00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:50,319 Speaker 1: I mean, I just I was so excited when the 781 00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:55,360 Speaker 1: opportunity presented itself, And as I said before, I don't 782 00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,680 Speaker 1: often get a chance to share this kind of space 783 00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:02,680 Speaker 1: with my mom and have her voice also heard, So 784 00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:07,200 Speaker 1: I am deeply thankful this is This is probably one 785 00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:12,200 Speaker 1: of the most heart filled conversations that I've had, and 786 00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,480 Speaker 1: I will treasure it. So thank you so much for 787 00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:18,080 Speaker 1: that gift. Thank Lily, appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you 788 00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:18,799 Speaker 1: for having me. 789 00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:20,120 Speaker 6: I appreciate you. 790 00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:22,239 Speaker 5: You're extraordinary too. 791 00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:27,480 Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us. 792 00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:31,880 Speaker 2: New episodes drop every Tuesday. Don't forget to subscribe so 793 00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:33,000 Speaker 2: you never miss a moment.