WEBVTT - Holkham Hall Returns 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:04.280 Today, we're back at Hocombe Hall in Norfolk, a country 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:07.280 house so massive it not only contains a room just 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:12.879 for statues, it also houses several incredible and inspiring stories, 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:16.479 so many in fact, that we've had to revisit it 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:19.040 for a second time to hear them all. Don't get 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:21.520 me wrong, there's a lot of sheep loving silliness, but 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:25.119 Hocumbe Hall is also home to some very impressive women, 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:29.000 speaking of which, you remember this one from our last episode. 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:34.440 I'm Catherine. I'm collections coordinator at Hookumb, which means basically, 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:37.160 I look after all of the stuff in the house 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:42.720 see paintings, furniture, statues, you name it, I have to 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:43.360 look after it. 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:47.200 And for this second episode we're adding another specialist because, 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:50.800 unlike Michael Gove, we haven't had enough of experts on 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:51.640 this podcast. 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:56.279 I'm Lucy Purvis. I'm the archimist at Holcombe. I've been 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:59.200 here now for about six years and I look after 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:02.800 and research into their history, be that the people that 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:06.000 live here or the people that work here, the buildings 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:10.440 and the collection that's within the hall and anything kind 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:11.600 of oldish on the estate. 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:16.080 Speaking of oldish, Catherine's already told us about Hocumb's famous 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:19.319 Thomas William Cook. But in case you missed it, Tom 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:22.200 was a bit of a lad. He loved a pasty 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:25.920 or three, took a five year long gap year, gambled 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:28.920 his money on cock fighting, and came back with just 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:33.200 about every Roman statue he could find. He also loved 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:38.200 the ladies, especially if they were younger, much younger. There 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:41.320 was a whopping fifty years between him and his wife. 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:44.720 Sounds like he was the DiCaprio of his day, But 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:47.319 was he actually as scandalous as he looks on paper? 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:51.120 No, I'm afraid Thomas William is actually pretty dull. Really. 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:55.640 He's known for being a farmer, really loved sheep at agriculture. 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:57.279 He loves sheep. 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:01.480 But he was a bit of a dish apparently, So yes, 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:04.720 you're right. His second wife was about fifty odd years 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:07.480 younger than him. When he was sixty eight, she was eighteen, 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:10.880 and he wanted to marry her off to his nephew 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:14.040 who was going to inherit the house, and she said, well, well, 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:18.400 actually I'd much rather marry you. I think really great 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:21.600 sacrifice for him to marry the much younger woman. 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:27.280 What first attracted her to the exceptionally rich older man. 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:30.040 Do you think No, I think it must have been 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:31.360 his conversation personally. 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:34.120 Yeah. Do you know how they both met? 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:38.440 So he was actually her godparent? Ward? 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:41.079 What does a ward do? 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:43.320 It's a bit like we would call it a godparent 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:45.120 today and involved god parent? 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:50.000 I think, bit too involved. Yeah. Do you recket the 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:52.639 marriage was then, ever, sort of consummated? 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:53.760 Absolutely? 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:58.560 They had it was You guys are nodding your heads 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:00.840 very very vigorously, like absolutely, Yeah. 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:05.040 Was it six children, Lucy, oh Jesus Christ. Yeah, it 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:09.800 was very consummated immediately. Yeah, very quick. He wasn't wasting 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:10.280 any time. 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:12.240 We didn't have much time left anyway. 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:16.240 Did the last child to be born? He was eighty four. 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:19.240 I'm not gonna lie that. I just a man of 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:22.440 his age. How is he doing this? 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:24.120 I'm sure he ate a lot of oysters. 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:38.640 Even though Thomas William Cook was a bit boring, he 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:43.040 still did throw incredible parties. What sort of parties was 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:43.560 he throwing? 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:47.400 Yeah? So he actually, as you say, boring chap, but 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:52.040 loved a good party. So unsurprisingly one of his favorite 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:53.240 parties did involve sheep. 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:57.880 Yeah, as the guests or as the sort of fancy dress. 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:00.440 Kind of as a bit of face. Actually, every year 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:03.640 he told something called a sheep sharing, basically a country 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:06.880 fair load of farmers come, they look at sheep, they 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:08.880 talk about sheep, and then they have a great knees 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:10.400 up after talking about sheep. 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:16.040 Amazing, What a theme for the music for these parties, 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:18.960 because they'd been playing music at parties who are like 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:22.400 the big composers, who's like the Drake or the Kanye 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:23.040 of the day. 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:26.360 You'd have hydn kicking around, wouldn't you writing as London symphonies, 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:29.239 maybe a bit of a saire. We Like Sheep? 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:32.320 Sorry? Is that the name of one of the songs? No? 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:35.080 Yes? In the Messiah there's a movement called for we 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:35.640 Like Sheep? 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:36.599 Is there really? 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:37.039 Yeah? 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:42.800 That's perfect for this party. Absolutely stick that on and 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:46.159 get the sheep going. I'm gonna be honest, I didn't 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:47.839 at any point in any of my notes for this 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:50.880 episode have anything on sheep, and now it's been eighty 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:53.800 percent of this conversation so far, and I'm not sad 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:56.560 about it. I'm not sad about it at all anyway. 0:04:56.680 --> 0:04:59.359 So they're also so sheep is a big party, but 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:03.920 there's also so lots of shooting parties. And this is 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:07.120 where Polly Fishburn comes in. This woman is quite a 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:09.920 tenacious woman. This is a fierce lady. Are you right? 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:16.040 She's feisty, She's definitely fightsty. Yeah. She started off working 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:20.000 at Holcombe as a housemaid. Her father was a gamekeeper 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:21.919 on the estate. He wasn't the gamekeeper, he was one 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:26.200 of the assistant gamekeepers. And she would have come to 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:29.479 Holcom when she's about ten or so years old. She 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:31.520 would have lived in Church Lodges, which is where the 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:35.200 gamekeeper still lives today on the estate, so she would 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:37.960 have known all the kind of sights and smells of 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:39.880 what being a game peoper was like. But she was 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:43.560 stuck in the kitchen as one of the undermaids. And 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:45.679 there's various accounts of what she did, but one of 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:47.960 the main one that got her out of the kitchen 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:50.800 was when she was hearing the shooting, she suddenly dropped 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:52.680 all the saucepans and jumped out the window to go 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:55.320 and find out what was happening. She could apparently ride 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:57.400 any horse in the stable, and she was a great 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:00.920 breaker of horses. But they realized that and Undermade really 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:03.200 wasn't the career for her, so she was agreed that 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:06.320 she could go and work with the gamekeepers, and in fact, 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:09.040 she was much better gamekeeper than her father was, and 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:11.880 generally thought that she was the equivalent of a man, 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:14.360 except she was obviously wearing ladies' clothes. 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:16.039 I was gonna say that must have been a huge 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:18.279 scandal at the time because they're like, what a woman. 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:21.760 But then you've also got because at that point the 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:24.680 servants would have been all eating together in the servants hall. 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:28.000 So you've got all the gamekeepers and all the outdoor 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:31.080 men the gardeners all eating together and being very masculine 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:33.960 and very laddish like they would be. You've got Polly 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:36.719 that comes in and none of the female servants want 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:38.479 to have anything to do with her because she's a 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:42.080 bit grubby, she's a bit gamekeeper, and she probably smells 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:44.120 a bit compared to what they do, so she had 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:46.839 to take her nails in their nursery. But there's a 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:50.880 couple of really good little stories about Polly, and the 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:53.720 fact that she was so formidable just comes across each time. 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:56.560 So there was a couple of gentlemen at one point 0:06:56.600 --> 0:07:00.599 that should have been eating and were waiting their dinner, 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:02.520 and they thought they'd just take a stroll around the park, 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:05.440 and they walked up to Church Lodge where Polly was living, 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:08.200 and said, oh, could you take us to the church 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:12.560 and show us around the church please? And she happily 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:15.200 took them, but realized that they weren't just wanting to 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:19.360 see the church. She managed to lock them at the 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:22.040 top of the church and went home and they had 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:25.040 to be rescued some hours later when their absence was noticed. 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:29.200 That's amazing. So she'd have gone, oh, into this this cupboard, gentleman, 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:31.000 and then since you went in at the door, click 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:34.840 legs it away. Yeah, exactly, and then didn't tell anyone. 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:35.520 That's amazing. 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:37.640 Well know, I think the thing was that they became 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:41.480 the laughing stock, and she wasn't reprimanded at all. In fact, 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:44.960 she was kind of praised for showing dignity and independence. 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:48.200 Who do you reckon found them? Was it just like 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:50.559 the vicar going into like dust off the prayer books 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:52.400 on the Sunday morning and just opened up and there's 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:55.160 these two sad looking n I got this. 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:57.200 Vision of them just standing at the top of Saint 0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:00.760 with the Burger's just shouting, what are you. 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:03.040 Two doing in here, well, not what we wanted to 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:03.520 do in here. 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:10.400 Do you want to know the story about it? 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:12.400 I want every single story about Polly. 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:16.280 Okay, Well, Polly was on the marshes. So when you've 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:19.000 got Holkham, you've got the lovely parkland, you've got the wall, 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:20.840 and then you've got the marshes leading up to the sea, 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:23.200 and they used to graze cattle and in fact they 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:26.240 still graized cattle on there, but unfortunately there was a 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:28.600 bull on there that had taken out one of the 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:31.360 laborers and he was dead and he was standing over 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:35.600 the bull was standing over the laborer, and everybody was like, well, 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:37.080 what we're going to do, What we're going to do. 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:40.959 Polly took one look, went into the field and started 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:45.360 walking towards this bull and people were shouting, don't, don't, don't, 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:47.880 don't go body, don't you know Polly? And her reply 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:51.160 was he knows better. And as soon as the bull 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:54.160 saw her he backed off because the bull had had 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:56.360 previous with Polly when she'd shot him in the muzzle 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:57.920 when he'd been misbehaving. 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:04.319 Again, firstly, what's a muzzle and in like the nose 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:07.920 shot the bull in the face I'm not surprised the 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:10.080 bull was quite angry in general, then if I had 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:11.400 been shot in the f I'm starting out a bit 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:13.800 of sympathy with the bull. Actually, I mean, I don't 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:15.959 know between us three, I don't know what the biggest 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:18.920 animal you think you could take in a fight is all. 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:24.920 I've actually answered this recently at a pub quiz. At 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:28.280 a pub quiz, Well, this is session quizz is a 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:28.720 bit too. 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:33.040 Yea, there can't be like a definite answer. Then I'll 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:33.560 hear your answer. 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:36.719 I'm a bit hesitant because we've talked about it a 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:38.400 lot already, but I reckon it's a sheep. 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:42.480 Well, you're not going to invite to any any bloody 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:44.440 of Thomas Cook's parties then. 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:47.480 Or maybe I am it's just maybe you are ticket? 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:49.439 Can you take a sheep in a fight? 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:54.160 And after dessert we will be watching Catherine wrestle a 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:55.160 sheep to death. 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:00.000 Yeah I'm not I'm not the biggest person, but I reckon, 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:01.800 I reckon I could take a sheep. 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:04.199 How are you taking it? Are you going to kick 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:04.760 it to death? 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:07.160 Or I'm going to flip it over? And then sheep 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:08.960 are really good at dying. 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:11.440 So you just flip the sheep and then pray for 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:15.440 natural causes? Is that? Is that the plan? Solid one? 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:19.240 And Lucy and the advance on sheep. 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:22.320 Well, I found out today that I'm the same height 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:24.520 as a red kangaroo as I was looking at a 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:25.160 wall chart. 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:27.600 There's not a chance you're beating up a kangaroo loose. 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:29.600 I mean, I love that is ambitious. 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:32.760 No, there is no way I would take it to redo, 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:34.120 but I thought it's quite interesting. I was the same 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:39.079 height as well. I think maybe a large tortoise, I 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:39.840 will go that far. 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:41.880 And are you are you going to do it for 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:45.000 the same same tactic, just flip it over? Yeah, okay, 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:50.000 flipping sounds good. Yeah sure. And myself, I think I 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:55.080 could take a penguin, what sort chocolate chocolate bark, chocolate 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:58.880 bar penguin, flip it over, lift its wing. Read the joke. 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:02.400 See you lay any more Polly stories? 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:07.000 So yeah. Polly's father died in eighteen twenty seven, which 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:08.640 is the kind of the time when the sheep shearing 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:12.080 had all finished, and she and her mother returned to 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:15.400 Yorkshire and then Polly was employed at Cannon Harller State 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:17.160 And the reason why I'm telling you about cannon Harll 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:21.520 estate was the lady of cannon Horn Estate was Elizabeth Cook, 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:25.120 who had been Thomas William's cook youngest daughter, who very 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:29.040 quickly moved out once Thomas got married again. So they 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:31.320 were given the cottage, went free and had three cows 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:34.800 to look after, which is quind of nice. And the 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:37.880 heir did come that what became the second Earl did 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:42.800 come and recognized Polly, obviously because of her reputation, and 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:46.199 and they reminisced together about life at Holcombe. And then 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:49.040 Polly's supposed to have said, oh, my lord, what a 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:50.920 spree we had over them wild ducks. 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:54.760 Oh what's happened with ducks? We've had sheep, we've had cows, 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:57.760 we've beaten up a kangaroo, a torsses dead, and now 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:00.520 we're going after ducksed what happened with ducks? 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:03.240 I had no idea what happened with the world ducks, 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:06.040 but presumably they were raising them and shooting them. 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:09.880 Shot in the face. She shot a duck in the face. 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:11.560 And then one day they came and there was a 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:26.240 duck stood over a dead farmer. I now want to 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:32.560 talk about Lady Jane Digby, who hopefully hasn't killed any animals, 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:35.480 but is again quite a woman. 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:38.400 Well, she was one of these people that grew up 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:42.640 in Hulcomb, although she was born in Dorset. Her mother 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:47.640 had been another Jane, and she was the Thomas William Cook, 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:49.640 the old man, his eldest daughter. 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:50.200 Right. 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:55.600 Her mother was incredibly beautiful. Jane was incredibly, incredibly beautiful. 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:59.080 She would have been in the nursery when Polly would 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:00.080 have been going for her long. 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:03.000 Really, so she'd have met Polly. Yes, Oh that's cool. 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:04.719 I think they would have known each other. I think 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:07.600 they would have at least walked past each other in 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:12.400 the corridors, if not known each other. She was incredibly beautiful. 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:16.600 She had very long golden hair. Loads of people think 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:18.760 that she is like, you know, the best thing since 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:19.719 sliced bread. 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:25.160 Nice a slice bread inventor by then no slice bread, 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:28.719 slice spread is the best thing since since lady Jane 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:30.200 Digby is actually what it should be. 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:36.520 Yes, she really captivated her grandfather, who obviously was Thomas 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:40.960 William Cook. And she had this education which was the 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:43.079 same as the boys in the nursery before they went 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:45.920 off to Eton. She learned lots of languages. 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:48.480 This make this makes sense why she sort because then 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:51.240 she sort of went around collecting men from different countries, 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:54.720 didn't she Yeah, I can learn a language, and you 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:57.800 might as well grab a bloat from it. How what's 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:00.000 the best way to learn by doing? That's what I think, 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:00.680 Just live it. 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:07.800 But her grandfather encouraged her to take an interest in 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:11.720 horses and small farm animals, so presumably sheep. She again 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:15.200 would be including that she read the classics, which, of 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:18.720 course at Hulcombe is very important with all the architecture 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:21.000 and the sculptures and the paintings and. 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:23.160 When you say the classics, so you're talking like sort 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:25.720 of Homer in the Illy Adima, Ancient all that sort 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:26.160 of stuff. 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:30.640 Yes, yeah, yeah, definitely, and wanted to know the stories 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:33.080 behind some of the key pieces at Hulcombe as well, 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:36.760 so she was being educated. She left the school room 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:39.440 at sixteen, but kept her governess, which is really important, 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:42.840 who was called missus Margaret Steele known as Steely, who 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:45.600 they had a friendship for the rest of her life, 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:51.640 and the family outside of Jane also used Steely as 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:54.160 a way of talking to Jane and communicating with Jane 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:57.960 when she was somewhat cut off from them, so Jane 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:02.680 left school in eighteen three at age sixteen, and then 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:06.800 she was a debutante in the following February, and by 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:09.600 the September she was with her first husband, Edward Law, 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:14.360 who was Lord Ellenborough. With him she did have a son, probably, 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:17.480 though it might have been her cousins. 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:21.280 Did she quit her cousins will hang on. You can't 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:27.320 just breeze over that, this potential incest affair that's happening. Oh, 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:28.360 let's just dwell on that a bit. 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:31.880 It's not quite incest, does it with a cousin. 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:34.240 Well, well, he's their own. Will agree to disagree there 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:36.520 if if you've got your morals on that side, I'm 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:39.000 going to I'm certainly on the side that hooking up 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:41.280 with your cousin is wrong. But Lucy, if that's you, 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:43.000 live your life and your truth. 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:47.040 She the cousin was a good nine or ten years 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:50.640 older than her, so you know, almost again she was 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:55.960 infatuated with him. But there again, her husband was fifteen 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:57.560 years older than her, so it were you know, there 0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:01.360 was quite a similar So now you had a son. 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:04.360 And then quite quickly after that she met her first 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:07.600 royalty and took her first royal lover, which ended up 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:09.280 with her having to leave for Europe. 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:12.800 What a phrase to say she met her first royal lover, 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:15.720 like you know, you know you always have at least 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:17.600 one or two royal lovers in your time. 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:23.560 I wouldn't know. So yes, she met Prince Felix and 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:27.480 moved over to Paris, had a really scandalous divorce. And 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:31.760 the divorce was so scandalous from Lord Edinburgh that where 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:35.080 the Times newspaper used to just have classified adverts, it 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:37.720 actually had details of the divorce case on the front page. 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:40.640 Why was it scandalous, Well, she. 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:44.320 Didn't really help herself. She stood on the balcony shouting 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:49.440 out I am Prince Felix's mistress, or somebody caught Prince 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:52.640 Felix getting into her hotel room in Brighton, and you know, 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:58.360 it was just this massive, massive scandal that she was 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:03.440 a sort of unrepentant. So anyway, she leaves for Europe. 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:08.560 She's just about divorced, she has a daughter. Prince Felix 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:12.280 comes over, but then he actually realizes that it's going 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:15.520 to compromise his career being with this scandalous divorced woman, 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:20.080 so leaves her, which is what they're said, sad she's 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:22.240 a completely damaged good She can't really come back and 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:26.360 have her nice life. Her grandfather, who has a very 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:28.760 young wife now doesn't want to have anything to do 0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:30.760 with her. It's I think it's really quite tragic. 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:35.199 Is she just like heartbroken and completely bereft? 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:38.200 Yeah, there's no more balconies to shout anything out. 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:40.880 So what does she do? How does she bounce back? 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:43.360 She goes to Munich and meets King Ludwig. 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:46.440 She's done pretty well, pretty good rebound. How do you 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:49.320 get over that one? A king? No fair enough? 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:56.439 She also meets Baron Carl von Venigan, who turns out 0:17:57.119 --> 0:18:02.320 to be a really good chat Really yeah he does 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:06.800 because she eventually marries Parl and has his child, who's 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:11.040 called Herbert, and he supports her for the rest of 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:15.119 her life, but they're not married for very long. She 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:19.880 has another child, Bertha. There's a suggestion that Paul Bertha 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:22.680 peras mad King Ludwig as her father, because she gets 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:24.520 put into a mental asylum by the age of twenty, 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:27.840 because they'd been prior to that, there hadn't been any 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:31.639 great madness within the Cook line or the Digby line. 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:34.160 The thought is that it might have come from King Ludwig. 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:39.320 A little bit later, she meets Count Spiros Titowsky from. 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:42.679 Corf Does anyone have a normal name? In this entire story, 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:46.360 every blokes called like sounds like a wizard from Dungeons 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:48.600 and Dragons. Exactly what's his name again? 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:53.679 Say that again, Count Spiros theotoki. 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:54.200 Right, okay? 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:57.240 And she and him would make late night twists on 0:18:57.280 --> 0:18:59.320 her trusty mayor, so they would ride out in the 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:04.520 evenings and find each other. Unfortunately, her husband Venegan, finds 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:07.040 out and they have a duel. But Venegan is such 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:10.560 a gentleman. Although he wounds Spiros, he takes him home 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:11.280 and gets him better. 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:11.560 Again. 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:13.679 That's nice of him though, to patch you all up. 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:17.320 Awkward carriage ride back, I imagine. 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:21.160 Very very Anyway, Spiros decides he wants to go back 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:23.840 to Paris, so Jane leaves Venegon to go to Paris 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:29.000 with him. A little bit later, Jane's last child, Leonidas, 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:32.879 was born, and Leonidas was the one child that Jane 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:35.280 actually really really loved. 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:36.840 I would have pronounced it Leonidas, but. 0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:39.439 I don't know. 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:41.720 He was my favorite Ninja turtle. 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:47.880 Yes, So then she gets divorced from Venigan. He decides 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:53.199 that actually he's had enough, and Jane becomes Missus Theotosky 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:55.600 and she gets married in the Greek Orthodox Church. So 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:59.920 this is marriage number three, and she moves to Tinos 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:01.840 inspire Us and learns Greek. 0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:08.720 It just sounds so insane experience. It sounds like a 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:12.400 series of dips. You'd get a posh. And then Tera 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:14.440 Mauthlata came in and said. 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:21.000 But there's life that she's got in Greece with Spiros. 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:23.480 It's just it seems to be one of the happiest 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:26.359 periods of her life, so happy that they decide to 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:30.440 go to Italy for a holiday and they take their 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:32.679 young son with them, Leonidas. 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:36.359 Leonidas saying yeah, well also so yeah, I'm also basically 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:37.920 off the movie three hundred. 0:20:38.920 --> 0:20:42.200 So they take leonid Us with them to Italy, and 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:45.639 unfortunate Lenia and I just runs to a balcony and 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:48.280 falls off and has the most horrific death, which Jane 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:49.600 never gets over. 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:50.920 The balconies. 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:54.600 And their marriage dissolves and we lose track of Jane 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:56.320 for about three years. 0:20:56.000 --> 0:21:01.640 So she goes off the off the grid in Greece. Essentially, Yeah, 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:02.280 it's very sad. 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:04.560 Yeah, you know, she's had a number of children. I 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:06.919 think this was her fifth child. At least two of 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:10.080 other previous children have died really quite young, and you 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:13.200 know this one that she'd got to about four. Then 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:19.120