1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Friends star Matthew Perry od's 2 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: dead and a hot tub? Are criminal charges looming in 3 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: his death? Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. 4 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. 5 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 2: Bombshell. Investigators and law enforcement are looking to charge multiple 6 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 2: suspects in the tragic ketamine death of Friends actor Matthew Perry. 7 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: I recall when prosecuting ketamine K was equated with drugs 8 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: that veterinarians used, But now it's very very common on 9 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: the street and even prescribed. But why are criminal charges 10 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: looming in an OD and overdose case? How is that 11 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: working now that we know the cause of death has 12 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: been ruled accidental? Listen? 13 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 3: The LAPD launching a criminal investigation into the death of 14 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 3: Matthew Perry after the medical examiner's report is released and 15 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 3: it's nearing its conclusion. A source close to the investigation 16 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 3: tells people the police believe multiple people should be charged. 17 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 3: The LAPD is working with the Drug Enforcement Administration, the DEA, 18 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 3: and the US Postal Inspectors attempting to find out where 19 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:26,199 Speaker 3: the ketamine that killed Matthew Perry came from. 20 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: Joining me an all star panel to make sense of 21 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: what we're learning right now are criminal charges looming in 22 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: the overdose death a friends start Matthew Perry. Now we 23 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: know that there is a criminal investigation going on of 24 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: who straight out to Lauren Colin, investigative journalist's host of 25 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: The Outlier podcast. You can find her at Laurencolin dot com. 26 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: Lauren criminal charges. Now, I recall distinctly when I was prosecuting, 27 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: there's a big buzz in the courthouse. Archie Bunkers in 28 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: the courthouse. All in the Family was a huge TV show. 29 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: My brother, my older brother, loved it and he was 30 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: the star. He went on to be the star of 31 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: the Heat of the Night and just a great, great actor. 32 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: His son died of an overdose and he was in 33 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: the Fulton County courthouse pursuing a claim against the doper 34 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,919 Speaker 1: and at that time it was unheard of. Right now 35 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:30,920 Speaker 1: we are hearing that charges, criminal charges are looming in 36 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: connection with Matthew Perry's death. What do you know, Nancy. 37 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 4: What we know is that Matthew Perry was getting treatment 38 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 4: for depression through ketamine. But this type of treatment, I mean, 39 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 4: it leaves your body within two to three hours. They're 40 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 4: traces of ketamine. He was also weaning himself off of 41 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 4: this treatment, so he hadn't been to this doctor or 42 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 4: this place to get these treatments for over a week 43 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 4: and a half. 44 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 1: So when the autopsy report. 45 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 4: Came out and it was stated that he had so 46 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 4: much ketamine in his system and I will let a 47 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 4: doctor talk about how much they were like, wait a second, 48 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 4: where would one procure all of this? So it actually 49 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 4: took his stepfather, journalist from Dateline, Keith Morrison, to say, hey, 50 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 4: we probably should make this a criminal investigation here. 51 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 1: Another saying is that there can be a cocktail of 52 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: drugs and papal system. Why it was see why was 53 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: he Matthew Perry so o day what happened? Well, our friend, 54 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,239 Speaker 1: doctor William Roney, an expert in epioids, wise. 55 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 5: In what you have is a cocktail of disaster because 56 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 5: you probably are dealing with multiple doctors that are not communicating, 57 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 5: nobody's coordinating his care. And if he's getting ketamine, as 58 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 5: it's said in the autopsy, there's ketamine contents in the stomach, 59 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 5: that would be ketamine pills. That's a rogue doctor, somebody 60 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 5: outside of good practice guidelines giving pills. They have no 61 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 5: business giving in addition to ketamine treatment. 62 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: And to doctor Moroni, what do you mean by rogue clinics. 63 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 5: These are rogue doctors in rogue clinics. The only doctor 64 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 5: that's probably legitimate here is the one giving a bupin orphine. 65 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,359 Speaker 5: That's the hardest word to say. But in order to 66 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 5: do that you have to have training. 67 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: The rest of. 68 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 5: These people doing ketamine rogue. They're outside the law, they're 69 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 5: outside good practice. We saw this with Anna Nicole Smith, 70 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 5: Michael Jackson, Prince, all these rogue doctors treating all these 71 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 5: celebrities and you don't know who's around them. 72 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 1: Yeah. Another interesting thing as I was researching in the 73 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: NY and early early this morning regarding Matthew Perry, it's 74 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: very disturbing to meet doctor Bethany Marshall is joining us, 75 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 1: a renownced psychoanalyst in the LA area and a book 76 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: deal break or went to work in a relationship and 77 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: went to walk away and you can find her at 78 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall dot com doctor Bethany. When I was 79 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 1: researching Matthew Perry early this morning, you know what comes up. 80 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 1: First thing. Matthew Perry had more than one point five 81 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: million dollars in his personal bank account. Matthew Perry is 82 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: broke at the time of death. Matthew Perry has nearly 83 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: two million dollars. Blah blah blah. Does anybody care other 84 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: than this panel about what happened to Matthew Perry After 85 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 1: his death, people came out of the woodwork saying, Oh, 86 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: he's a horrible person. Oh he's a wonderful person. And 87 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: now it's all about his money, the ketamene, it's about 88 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 1: his death. How did he get the drugs? Why was 89 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 1: he odeed? I mean, this guy was a TV superstar, 90 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: a movie star. Did nobody care about him? Did nobody 91 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 1: care about what happened to him? Did his just stand 92 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:03,239 Speaker 1: by and watch him into oblivion over and over and over. 93 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: It's like vultures, harpies picking at his bones at this juncture. 94 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 1: The fact is this could have been prevented and he 95 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 1: could have lived, Doctor Bethany. But now the headline he 96 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: had nearly two million dollars in his bank account at 97 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 1: the time of his death. 98 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 6: Nancy, this is the worst form of what I call othering, 99 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 6: just turning him into the dangerous other, or the poor other, 100 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 6: or the enviable other. Somebody with whom you have no relationship. 101 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 6: All these people who watched Friends all of those years, 102 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 6: they felt attached to him, They felt a. 103 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 7: Sense of love, a sense of admiration. 104 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 6: But now they've kicked him off the pedestal and they 105 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 6: have him writhing on the ground, and they're vilifying the victim. 106 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 6: Because these celebrities who have a lot of money notoriously 107 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 6: get the worst care. I see this in my practice 108 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 6: all the time, because what happens is if they're suffering 109 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 6: from addiction and one doctor limits them or says I'm sorry, 110 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 6: I'm not going to prescribe this for you because you 111 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 6: have a propensity towards addiction, and they can just go 112 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 6: find another one, another doctor to prescribe because they have 113 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 6: all these hangers on and they are vulnerable. People with 114 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 6: substance abuse problems. 115 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 7: Are extraordinarily vulnerable. 116 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 6: And so the fact that doctor Moroney is talking about 117 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 6: all these different people prescribing, they were not working together 118 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 6: as a team and they were not setting limits, which 119 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 6: is what you have to do with people who have 120 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 6: these kinds of mental health struggles. 121 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: Who who are we talking about? Who is under criminal investigation? Listen? 122 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: I can tell you this much. When the LAPD, the DEA, 123 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: and the US Postal Service are up your Tailpie, You're 124 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: in trouble. I am telling you those are three very 125 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: very powerful law enforcement agencies. And don't underestimates the ups 126 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 1: the US Postal Service. We always hear about mobsters committing murderers, 127 00:07:55,920 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: drug trafficking, human trafficking. You know who can bring down 128 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: a mobster in a New York minute? The US Postal Service. 129 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: Why do we need them not just to get a mail? 130 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: Because they help prove wire fraud. They help prove fraud 131 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: through the mail, which is a federal offense. Look, I 132 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: can try a guy for crack cocaine or for heroin 133 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: selling opioids, but what about the guys that send it 134 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: an e FedEx? What about the guys that mail it, 135 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 1: that send money through the mail or other means them? 136 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: So LAPD, the DEA, and the US Postal Service are 137 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: on this case. So you know something's about to go down. 138 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: And doctor Bethany Marshall, let me just ask you a 139 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: quick question. You refer to other ring. I've never heard 140 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:53,319 Speaker 1: that before. Did you make that up? 141 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 5: No? 142 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 1: I mean it's. 143 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:58,679 Speaker 6: Really in terms of racial injustice studies, that's a frequent 144 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 6: word that's used where you turn of another race into 145 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 6: another a person for whom you have no empathy or understanding. 146 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:06,959 Speaker 6: You don't see them as their own person and their 147 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 6: own right. But we do it within our own race too. 148 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 6: You can other an older person or somebody who's disabled, 149 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 6: or somebody who's young, and I think that means just 150 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 6: really not caring about them, just looking at superficial features. 151 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:22,679 Speaker 6: But also envy is at the core of othering. When 152 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 6: you really are envious of another person's accomplishments, you just 153 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 6: stomp on them and you just knock them off their pedestal. 154 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 6: And it's something we human being sadly are prone to doing. 155 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,199 Speaker 1: And doctor Bethley, I could talk to you all day 156 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: long about what is wrong with people? Why do we 157 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: love somebody so much and then just want to destroy 158 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: them and talk badly about them after their death? The 159 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: way people are Matthew Perry. I don't know if what 160 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 1: they're saying is true or not about many of the 161 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: allegations made against him after his death, but I think 162 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: this is hardly the time to go for him. I mean, 163 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 1: he's dead, he clearly had an accidental death. 164 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 6: All those online reports of people's wealth are true and true. 165 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 6: Often in my clinical practice, if I have a celebrity 166 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 6: patient and they tell me something about their financials, I'll 167 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 6: look it up online and there's just a wild variance 168 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 6: between what they report and what's online. Usually online it 169 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 6: is very, very inflated. Also, you know, in terms of 170 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,839 Speaker 6: Matthew Perry, we want our celebrities to be successful enough 171 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 6: that we admire them and we identify with them, but 172 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 6: not so successful that we envy them and feel that 173 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 6: we can never have what they have. And so I 174 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 6: think his meteoric rise, the fact that he's so beloved, 175 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,319 Speaker 6: so talented as an actor, and so likable and relatable, 176 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 6: makes people envious, and that's when they start to devalue 177 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 6: and put him down. 178 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: Well, I can tell you this much. He may have 179 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: money and fame, but when you are addicted to dr ows, 180 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: your life as hell. I don't care who you are, 181 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: it's hell h E double L. You know, Doctor Ernest 182 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: Shioda is joining us, and I'm going to follow up 183 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: with you, Mike McCornick, and Wendy Patrick because I'm really interested. 184 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 1: I'm anxious to find out who is being criminally investigated, 185 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: are charged criminal charges looming in Matthew Perry's case. I've 186 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,319 Speaker 1: heard a lot of rumors that I can't report because 187 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 1: I can't confirm them about who is being targeted. I 188 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 1: know some of the people that have been questioned, but 189 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 1: charges like this would have to be something like an 190 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 1: involuntary manslaughter, producing or manufacturing or distributing drugs. There are 191 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 1: so many different ways to go. But what I want 192 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: to talk about right now doctor Ernesthiodo, who is a 193 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 1: renowned toxicologist, a physician, biomedical engineer, attorney and author, waite, 194 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 1: did I get it all? Hold on? Let me make sure. Toxicologist, 195 00:11:54,440 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 1: medical doctor, biomedical engineer, attorney, an author of Talk Torque, 196 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: Medical and legal elements. Wow. When do you have time 197 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: to breathe? Uh? Doctor Schioto, thank you for being with us. 198 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: I want to talk about the side effects of ketymine K, 199 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 1: which has long been used by veterinarians on animals. And 200 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 1: I want to talk about what somebody said earlier rogue doctors. 201 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: Oh it was doctor William Maroney, renowned to psychologists who 202 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: specializes in opioids. He's the author of America narcan a. 203 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: Doctor Shioto, side effects of ketymine would they make you 204 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: angry because a lot of the people that crawled out 205 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: of the woodwork after Matthew Perry's death said, oh, he 206 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: was violent. Well he never struck me that way, but 207 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,959 Speaker 1: we don't know how he was in person. What would 208 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: be some of the side effects of ketamine. 209 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 8: Well, ketymine is not an opiate. It's a fensecuidine. 210 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: Oh okay, stop right there, Okay, hold on, okay, wait, yes, 211 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: let me just put it out there. You know more 212 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: than me. I don't know what you just said. I'm 213 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,959 Speaker 1: going to have to write it phonetically. What did you say? 214 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,199 Speaker 8: It's a what it's a fen cyclaine. 215 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 1: It's not an opiate, A thin cyclodane. 216 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 8: Okay, yes, so it's it doesn't Uh, it's not an opiate. 217 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 8: So it's not going to act like fentanyl or morphine 218 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 8: or heroine that causes respiratory depression and depth actually cause 219 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 8: it stimulates your respiration and increases your heart rate in 220 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:37,679 Speaker 8: blood pressure. So so from a standpoint of something that's 221 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 8: going to cause death, uh, that's not that's not the issue. 222 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 7: It can cause. 223 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 8: It causes feelings of dissociation, out of body type of experiences, 224 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 8: and that's that's part of why it's used recreationally, but 225 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 8: also why it's used the treatment of depression and anxiety. 226 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 8: But as far as its actually causing an overdose deaths, No, no, 227 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 8: I don't think that's the case. 228 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 1: This is what we know. His death included drowning the 229 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: effects of b primorphine, a drug that treats opioid addiction. 230 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: His use of ketamine. The amount of ketamine in his 231 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: bloodstream was equivalent to that used in general anesthesia. According 232 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: to the Times. That means when he was in that 233 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 1: hot tub, he might as well have been hooked up 234 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: to propofol or general anesthesia. I mean that is a 235 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:41,479 Speaker 1: lot so to you. Mike McCormick, owner investig lead investigator 236 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: mcm Investigations in LA. This is your neck of the 237 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: woods and you can find him at m Mother c 238 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: Curry M Mother Investigations. Mike McCormick, listen to this. A 239 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: criminal investigation is being launched to figure out the source 240 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: of the drugs. 241 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 9: That's going to take a little more investigation. But there's 242 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 9: other people involved also, and the Health and Safety Code 243 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 9: eleven three point fifty and eleven three sixty five would 244 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 9: be a couple that charges that they would probably end 245 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 9: up filing against the individuals who distributed or provided the 246 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 9: ketamine to Matthew. 247 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 3: According to Matthew Perry, he had been cleaned for nineteen months, 248 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 3: but The Daily Mail reports the actor died from an 249 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 3: overdose of the party drug ketamine. According to the autopsy report, 250 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 3: a detective who attended the scene of Perry's death said, quote, 251 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 3: during my investigation, no alcohol, elicit drugs or drug paraphernalia 252 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 3: were found unquote. The Daily Mail also claims the fifty 253 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 3: four year old was getting injections of the male hormone testosterone, 254 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 3: and an unnamed female associate claimed the injections were causing 255 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 3: him to be angry and mean for the last couple 256 00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 3: of weeks. 257 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 2: A criminal investigation and to actor Matthew Perry's death is 258 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 2: near conclusion. Dealers could face charges. 259 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: Who's facing charges not just in Hollywood, in LA but everywhere. 260 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: Once people that are suppliers, even if they're friends of 261 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: the victim, are going to be prosecuted. And once that 262 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: begins happening, I believe that we will have less od 263 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: desk such as what we're seeing with Matthew Perry, who 264 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: who is being prosecuted. 265 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 3: This is what we know Listen, brook Mueller isn't home 266 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 3: when police service search warrant at her sober living residence. However, 267 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 3: sources indicate Mueller is completely cooperative with law enforcement, and 268 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 3: when she arrives home, she's not handcuffed while talking to police. 269 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 3: This is not the first time Mueller has spoken with 270 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 3: investigators in the Matthew Perry case, but this time authority 271 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 3: sees her iPhone and laptop. 272 00:16:55,040 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: Okay, that's not good when law enforcement takes yourself phone 273 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 1: and your laptop. But again, Brooke Mueller has not been charged. 274 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: And yes, she was married to Charlie Sheen, and yes 275 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 1: they have twins together. Yes, she has been in and 276 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: out of rehab. She dated and I think the loose 277 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 1: sense of the word Matthew Perry. What more do we know? 278 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 3: Listen, Brooke Mueller has retained a lawyer for help in 279 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 3: navigating the multiple meetings she's having with law enforcement, and 280 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 3: she's remaining tight lipped about the situation. An insider tells 281 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 3: in Touch it's tough to say or know exactly what 282 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 3: her role is in Matthew Perry's death, but Mueller is 283 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 3: adamant she has nothing to do with it. 284 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: Again, Brooke Mueller a mother, a former wife in and 285 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:46,719 Speaker 1: out of rehab finding her demons, did date Matthew Perry, 286 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: we are told, but has not been named as a 287 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 1: defendant in this case. Wendy Patrick joining me, California prosecutor, president, 288 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 1: founder of Black Swan of Verdicts, an author of her 289 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 1: third book, This One's New, Why Bad Looks Good, and 290 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: you can find her at wendypatrickphd dot com. She's also 291 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: again you're like gosh ioto, I don't know how you 292 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 1: do this, but she's also host of Today with Doctor 293 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:19,919 Speaker 1: Wendy KCBQ San Diego. Wendy, that's a mouthful. Now, can 294 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: we get off of your huge resume and onto Matthew Perry. 295 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: What do you make of this? I mean I would 296 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: be worried if I saw the dea picking through my 297 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,199 Speaker 1: trash through my kitchen window. I would like that. 298 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 10: No, definitely not, and especially when you put it in 299 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 10: combination with those other two powerhouse organizations. I mean, they 300 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 10: obviously have enough evidence to be conducting an investigation, whether 301 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 10: somebody mailed them the drugs, whether somebody gave him the 302 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 10: drugs because they thought they were doing him a favor, 303 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 10: as you mentioned earlier, they're not looking for a murder suspect, 304 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:53,680 Speaker 10: they're looking for an involuntary manslaughter suspect or who may 305 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,159 Speaker 10: have facilitated this drug overdose along the way. And I 306 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 10: do have to say, Nancy, I too have been following 307 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:01,640 Speaker 10: what people are saying after the fact. 308 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 7: And you know, he's. 309 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,719 Speaker 10: Also so relatable because so many of us know somebody 310 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 10: who has struggled with addiction, a family member, a cowork 311 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:12,919 Speaker 10: or a friend. And that's one of the reasons that 312 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 10: investigators would look at who saw him last, who spoke 313 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 10: to him last, what deliveries came that day. But you're right, 314 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 10: when you have those agencies involved, you already know that 315 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 10: there's enough evidence to be able to at least follow trails, 316 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 10: hopefully leading to some suspects and some. 317 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 11: Justice crime stories. 318 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 1: With Nancy Grace, doctor Bethany Marshall, I'm going to jump 319 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: off what Wendy Patrick just said. Doctor Bethany, You I 320 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:49,440 Speaker 1: don't believe have ever heard me and be an apologist 321 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: for a supplier ever. I remember the first stay with 322 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: me on this The first time I saw a DUI 323 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: had been to a violator, which means you've had so 324 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: many DUIs which are misdemeanors. You finally get a felony, 325 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: you graduate to b court and the defendant came in. 326 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:13,640 Speaker 1: She was in shackles and prison blues. She was beautiful, 327 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:19,479 Speaker 1: soft spoken, college degree, had been a stockbroker at some 328 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: one of the big stock brokerage firms, and she had 329 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:27,640 Speaker 1: become an alcoholic. She lost her husband, her three children, 330 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 1: no more custody her. You have to have special you know, 331 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 1: like a lawyer has to have a law degree and 332 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: you have to be certified by the bar to practice. 333 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: She lost all of her certification. No more stock brokerage ever, 334 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,959 Speaker 1: because you can't have a drunk broker because they may 335 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: take your money. You don't know what they'll do. She 336 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: lost everything because of addiction. And she was standing alone 337 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: in that courtroom, all alone, no family, nobody taking a 338 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: guilty place. And that was the first time. I mean, 339 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: my parents like me, my mother anyway, My father was 340 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: not afraid of a cocktail, teetotalers totally right. And I 341 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: saw for the first time what addiction does to you. 342 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,880 Speaker 1: You think she wanted to go through life without her children, 343 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: that you might as well take a dagger and stab 344 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 1: me in the heart. Doctor Bethany to take me away 345 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:30,640 Speaker 1: from the twins lost everything. So I don't apologize for suppliers. 346 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 1: But addicts give each other drugs, and I don't know 347 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 1: whether it feels sorry for them or to throw them 348 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: in jail. 349 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 6: You know, Nancy, It's so difficult because addicts generally have 350 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 6: a trail of devastation behind them, and usually they do 351 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 6: alienate all of their loved ones and friends. And yet ironically, 352 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 6: it's social support that's the most key factor in sobriety. 353 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 6: What you said about supplying each other drugs is true. 354 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,880 Speaker 6: Some people you do not want to put and psychotherapy 355 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,919 Speaker 6: putic groups together. People with eating disorders, you don't want 356 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 6: to put them in a group together. 357 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 7: They'll just teach each other how to binge and purge. 358 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 6: You don't want to put people who are anxious and 359 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 6: a psychotherapy group together because they'll raise each other's anxiety. 360 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 6: The same with people who are drug addicted. They do 361 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 6: tend to supply each other drugs. And Nancy, I want 362 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 6: to add that we're thinking of nefarious individuals supplying drugs 363 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 6: to Matthew Perry. It could be his own legitimate doctor, 364 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 6: the primary treater. Because when you're prescribing a psychedelic agent psychotherapeutically, 365 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 6: for a patient, you have. 366 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 7: To do a full assessment. 367 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 6: To make sure that treatment is going to work. 368 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 7: And if they're already addicted to that substance, you don't want. 369 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 6: To prescribe that substance to help them get better. It's counterintuitive, 370 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 6: it's just malpractice. 371 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 1: Reminder to all, Brooke Mueller has not been charged in 372 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: this case. For all I know, they had the same supplier. 373 00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: For all I know, they were talking on the phone 374 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 1: about their addictions. For all I know, she was counseling him. 375 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 1: I don't know why law enforcement has seized her phone 376 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 1: and her laptop, but we're going to find out. 377 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 3: Radio in one of the drowning across. 378 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 2: Her friends, Actor Matthew Perry's ketamine overdose death under criminal investigation. 379 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 2: Could Perry's celebrity friends be at fault? 380 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 1: Our criminal charges looming in the od death friend star 381 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: Matthew Perry who passed away in his hot tub. He 382 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: had so much ketamine in his system it was equal 383 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: to the amount you would have for general anesthesia. He 384 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: was posting in texting about relaxing in his hot tub 385 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: just before his death. Clearly this was an accident. Oh 386 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: so warm water swirling around you makes you feel good. 387 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: I'm matt Man having a great evening. Right he died? 388 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 1: Why did he die? An ode of keteman? But I 389 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: want to ask our doctor joining us, doctor Ernest Scioto, 390 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:22,199 Speaker 1: a renowned to psychologist, physician, biomedical engineer, and lawyer and author. 391 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:27,160 Speaker 1: I was reading his autopsy report, doctor, and I also said, 392 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 1: I see number one cod acute effects of ketamine. But 393 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: they also see this is a tough thing. Pancreatic fibrosis. 394 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: What is that? Pancreatic fibrosis chronic? 395 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 8: Yeah, it's from malcohol abuse. Basically, he has she has 396 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 8: damaged his pancreas from having had probably because of alcohol 397 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 8: prioritans gosh, Okay, that happens with other than abuse, but 398 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 8: it's something that's common with alcohol. 399 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:05,880 Speaker 1: Okay. Pancreatic fibrosis chronic. And he also had nephro sclerosis 400 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:10,880 Speaker 1: of kidneys. What is nephro sclerosis of kidneys? 401 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 8: Yeah, for sclerosis of kidneys is where you have damage 402 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:20,920 Speaker 8: to the filtering elements of the kidneys, of the elements 403 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 8: of the kidneys that take the toxins day to day 404 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 8: toxes that we all develop in our body and excrete 405 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 8: them into the eurine, so there was there was some 406 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 8: some kidney damage. What the cause of the kidney damage 407 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:35,400 Speaker 8: was hard to say. 408 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: I see chronic hepatic congestion, liver mild aplo, aplanegally. Okay, 409 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 1: I'm sure that's not right, but you know what it is? 410 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: What is it? 411 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,400 Speaker 8: Well, basically what's happening is he he has some damage 412 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 8: to his liver, again likely from Malcolm. 413 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 1: Okay, guys, I'm reading on in the external examination, and 414 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 1: I remember Friends was huge. I was in law school 415 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,160 Speaker 1: and I never got to watch TV, but everybody else watched 416 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 1: it and loved him. And when I think about him 417 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,919 Speaker 1: with that big smile, listen to this. The body is 418 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:15,640 Speaker 1: identified by toe tags and is that of an unembalmed, 419 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: refrigerated adult male. It just seems so sad to me 420 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: that he affected and touched so many people's lives and 421 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:30,119 Speaker 1: now he's identified by a toe tag. Okay, what do 422 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: we know about the criminal investigation? Is there a crime? 423 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:40,680 Speaker 1: Was he attending rogue clinics that gave him too much ketamine? 424 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: Gave him access to too much ketamine? Did he doctor shop? 425 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: Did doctors have a duty to find out who else 426 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: he was seeing? Was he going to different pharmacies to 427 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: get ketamine and other drugs or did he have a 428 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 1: drug supplier listen. 429 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 3: The decision to file charges or not in the death 430 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 3: of Matthew Perry rest in the US Attorney's office. Some 431 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 3: experts point to the involvement of the California Branch of 432 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 3: the Drug Enforcement Agency that federal authorities might be looking 433 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 3: at distribution of a controlled substance resulting in death or 434 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 3: conspiracy to distribute a controlled substance resulting in death charges. 435 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 3: These types of charges are used to charge drug dealers, 436 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 3: but can be used for pill mills and doctors who 437 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 3: over prescribe narcotics without seeing patients, and. 438 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: Friends that continually give you a pipeline to drugs. You know, 439 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 1: when you think of a drug dealer, Wendy Patrick, California Prosecutor, 440 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 1: When you think of a drug dealer, you automatically think of, oh, gosh, 441 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: here's a good stereotype of somebody sitting in a big 442 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: mansion with Rottwilers guarding the front door, and you know, 443 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,440 Speaker 1: a big moat around their mansion, so you can't get 444 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: to him in armed guards, maybe with a lot of 445 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: gold chains. Yeah, it's not like that it's not like 446 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,640 Speaker 1: that at all. The supplier can be here and I'm 447 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 1: definitely air quoting here best friend Wendy Patrick. 448 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 10: Great point, Nancy, because if we were to confine our 449 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 10: investigation to stereotypes, we would no doubt never find the suspects. 450 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,120 Speaker 10: And that's one of the things that makes drug abuse 451 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 10: so difficult and so challenging, specifically because drug dealers come 452 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,640 Speaker 10: in all shapes and sciences, and even that terminology can 453 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 10: be misleading. You have cases where you have an added 454 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,640 Speaker 10: sharing their pills with somebody that perhaps also has an addiction. 455 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 10: You have people having legitimate prescriptions that they sell themselves, 456 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 10: So there is no prototypical drug dealer that you need 457 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 10: to look at. Rather, sometimes suspects are right under the 458 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 10: noses of investigators that really broaden the search, particularly in 459 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 10: a case like this where we're not talking. 460 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 6: About crack cocaine. 461 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 10: We're talking about a drug that is regularly in talk 462 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 10: about air quotes at least in some circles, and for depression, 463 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 10: and prescribed legitimately by physicians. Now the onus becomes a 464 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 10: physician can only make a smart prescribing decision under the 465 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 10: physician's creative do no harm if they know whether or 466 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 10: not that patient is also receiving prescriptions from other places, 467 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 10: are they prone to addiction, do they have a history 468 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 10: of drug or alcohol abuse? So all those factors going 469 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 10: to the prescribing decision, which itself. 470 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 7: Can be complicated by there will be. 471 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 10: No record of an addition to what you get legitimately, 472 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 10: whether or not somebody is receiving drugs from associates, from friends, 473 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 10: or from so called dealers on the. 474 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 11: Street crime stories with Nancy Grace. 475 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 2: Actor Matthew Perry dead a tragic ketamine overdose and hot 476 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 2: tub drowning. Who gave Perry the lethal drugs? 477 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 1: Okay, right now, we know that Britt Muehler was once 478 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: romantically involved with and that they were still in touch 479 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: at the time of his death, but we didn't know 480 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: this Listen Brook. 481 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 3: Mueller has retained a lawyer for help in navigating the 482 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 3: multiple meetings she's having with law enforcement, and she's remaining 483 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 3: tight lipped about the situation. An insider tells in Touch 484 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 3: it's tough to say or know exactly what her role 485 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 3: is in Matthew Perry's death, but Mueller is adamant she 486 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 3: has nothing to do with. 487 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: It, and again Lauren Colin. I don't want to convict 488 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,959 Speaker 1: Brooke Mueller. Now, all right, this woman is trying to 489 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: make a goat for a life and sober living. I 490 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: want to get the right person, not just any person. Also, 491 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: you have the other issues, Lauren Colin. Was he doctor shopping? 492 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: Was he going to rogue clinics? We don't know that, 493 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: but for some reason we know Ellie law enforcement sees 494 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:50,239 Speaker 1: her laptop and phone. Lauren Colin, What more do we know? 495 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 1: Because I'm sure, I think, I'm sure that she has 496 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: never been arrested or handcuffed during any of these inquiries. 497 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: The fact that she hired a lawyer, I mean, I 498 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 1: think everybody in la has a lawyer on retainer. Why, 499 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 1: I don't know that, but that's not shocking to me. 500 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 4: No, Nancy, I was just going to say that everybody 501 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 4: needs to stop acting like someone's guilty because. 502 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: They lawyer up. 503 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 4: Everybody should lawyer up, like you just said. 504 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 12: But no, I want to point out the FBI truly 505 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 12: believes that Matthew Perry or someone in his quote inner 506 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 12: circle was doctor shopping to multiple physitions in different states 507 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 12: to obtain the ketamine and have. 508 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 4: Those doctors send prescriptions. Across state lines. Perhaps that's the case, 509 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 4: but this is a federal offense. So for whatever reason, 510 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 4: Brooke Mueller is the only name that they have released. 511 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 4: And I agree with you, she is being questioned, she's cooperating, 512 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 4: but she's not necessarily a suspect. 513 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: Although I've got to agree also with Michael Mike McCormick 514 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, because when the authorities keep coming back to 515 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 1: you and coming back to you, that's a concern in 516 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: an investigation. You would have thought that she would have 517 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: handed over her phone and laptop cooperating with them. And 518 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: we've been told she is cooperating and that would be 519 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 1: the end of it. But it could be as simple 520 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 1: as did they at one time have the same supplier? 521 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 1: What were they talking about? I don't know, but it 522 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: does rape raise a red flag Wendy Patrick that they 523 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: continue to question her. 524 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 10: Yeah, it sounds almost like because the two of them 525 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 10: knew each other from a rehab facility, that perhaps they 526 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 10: shared a lot of information in addition to sharing mutual 527 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 10: friends that may have themselves relapsed and there in lives 528 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 10: where an investigation needs to go is that how much 529 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 10: information can she continue to provide once they are also 530 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 10: investigating leads from other places that they can then go 531 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 10: back and ask a supplement question. Doesn't mean she's a 532 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 10: suspect at all. I mean she may have the kind 533 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 10: of information that would be valuable for them to continue 534 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 10: to follow up on. 535 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 7: Then when they find. 536 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 10: Out new facts she can corroborate, she can admit deny. 537 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 10: Remember she's been cooperative, and that is what we have 538 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 10: to view in terms of turning over the phone in 539 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,959 Speaker 10: the laptop, whether they were seized, whether she gave them voluntarily. 540 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 7: It means that there's something in. 541 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 10: Her past as well that may be instrumental, not incriminating 542 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 10: necessarily with respect to her, but instrumental and law enforcement 543 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 10: finding who's to blame? And the ultimate question where did 544 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 10: he get the drugs? 545 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 1: We are being told that the criminal investigation into Matthew 546 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: Perry's death is quote wrapping up our charges to follow. 547 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: Another issue out to Mike McCormick, Honorarly and investigator mcm 548 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 1: investigations in LA is that when they showed up to 549 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 1: meet with her, meet with her at her sober living house, 550 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 1: they had a search warrant with them. Now I can 551 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: tell you this much. When I went to interview witnesses 552 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 1: in every square inch of the city of Atlanta, Fulton County. 553 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 1: I usually did not take a search warrant. I'd knock 554 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 1: on the door, they let me in. We'd sit down 555 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 1: and talk and I'd make notes. We'd have iced tea, 556 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 1: and that would be that. Once in a while i'd 557 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: have a subpoena with me to personally deliver it to 558 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:15,880 Speaker 1: them for them to come to court, or a subpoena 559 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 1: duketikam for documents to come to court. But not a 560 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: search warrant. That is a subtle but very important distinction. 561 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 9: Absolutely better to have it and not need it than 562 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 9: need it and not have it. 563 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 1: But why a search warrant? 564 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 9: Mike in kise can't get what they want voluntarily. 565 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 1: It means Wendy Patrick and Mike McCormick is correct, But 566 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 1: it means they go to her for a reason. They 567 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: are seeking something. You have to have a search warrant 568 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 1: to enter a defendant's home, or to really for police 569 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,760 Speaker 1: to enter any home, you've got to have a search warrant. 570 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:59,839 Speaker 1: They're looking for something directly connected to a criminal investigation. 571 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,479 Speaker 1: That's what a search want is. That's right, and. 572 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 10: It has to be supported by sufficient facts and circumstances 573 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 10: to justify a judge having granted it. 574 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 7: And that's important here because you think about all of 575 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:11,600 Speaker 7: what was in that affidata. 576 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,239 Speaker 10: They would have had to explain what they're looking for, 577 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,919 Speaker 10: what their experience is, and why they think that they're 578 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 10: going to find it on her devices, whether it's a phone, 579 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,799 Speaker 10: whether it's a laptop. You can't just go out and 580 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,840 Speaker 10: get a search warrant. You need to do all the 581 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 10: background investigation that allows you to articulate with secificity what 582 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,279 Speaker 10: you're looking for, why you think it's going to be there, 583 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 10: and then of course you need a judge to agree 584 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,319 Speaker 10: to all of that. So you have to imagine a 585 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 10: lot of that background information that they already did led 586 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:42,359 Speaker 10: them to that point. 587 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 2: Bombshell investigators and law enforcement are looking to charge multiple 588 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 2: suspects in the tragic ketamine death of Friends actor Matthew Perry. 589 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,720 Speaker 1: The incredental investigation to the death a Friends star Matthew 590 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 1: Perry is ongoing. We've been told it's very close to 591 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 1: being quote wrapped up. Will there be criminal charges as 592 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: it relates to Perry's death? Right now? We know that 593 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:11,360 Speaker 1: his former girlfriend sweetheart Brooke Mueller has been questioned repeatedly 594 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 1: pursuant to search warrant. She has not been named a 595 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:20,360 Speaker 1: target of the investigation. Perry himself wrote about his addiction Listen. 596 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 3: Matthew Perry wrote about his issues with addiction to alcohol 597 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 3: and drugs in his memoir. He said he began drinking 598 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 3: at fourteen and was an alcoholic by eighteen. Perry first 599 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 3: went to rehab and completed a twenty eight day program 600 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,760 Speaker 3: at Hazelden Betty Ford Foundation after a jet ski accident 601 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 3: led to an addiction to vicoden. In his twenty twenty 602 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,440 Speaker 3: two memoir Friends, Lovers and the Big Terrible Thing, Perry 603 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 3: claimed to have been to rehab fifteen times, detox sixty 604 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,440 Speaker 3: five times, and spent about seven to nine million dollars 605 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 3: trying to get sober. 606 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 1: You know what, I don't care about the money or 607 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,719 Speaker 1: the fame this guy had. He was living in hell 608 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: trying to get out from under addiction. Okay, we know 609 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 1: about him, But who is she? Lauren Colin in a nutshell? 610 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: Brooke Mueller. 611 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:06,359 Speaker 4: Yes, Brooke Mueller is from Florida. She was actually born 612 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 4: in upstate New York. She had a very wealthy stepfather 613 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,560 Speaker 4: and that led to her pretty much pursuing whatever she wanted. 614 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,720 Speaker 4: She became friends with Paris Hilton, she did reality TV, 615 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,360 Speaker 4: she was an actress at one point, and then she 616 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 4: did some real estate development and she ended up meeting 617 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:22,799 Speaker 4: Charlie Sheen. 618 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 1: So to doctor Bethany Marshall, and that makes many of 619 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 1: us regular mortals wonder when people have so much money 620 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 1: born with a silverspoon in their mouths her, I don't 621 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,279 Speaker 1: know that he was necessarily born with a single silverspoon 622 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:40,960 Speaker 1: in his mouth, but he became a superstar, money, fame, 623 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:47,880 Speaker 1: suck ups all around you, seemingly having everything. Why drug addiction? 624 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:53,160 Speaker 6: You know, Nancy, drug addiction is very biologically motivated. You know, 625 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,880 Speaker 6: there's so much talk about trauma and family dysfunction and 626 00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 6: all the things that happened situationally that prime people for addiction. 627 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,919 Speaker 6: But basically there's a very strong biological component. So let's 628 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 6: say you have the predisposition for addiction, and then you 629 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 6: have to quote you suck ups all around you that 630 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 6: really want you to not be aware of what's going on, 631 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,359 Speaker 6: maybe con artists, maybe an agent or a manager who 632 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,640 Speaker 6: wants to push you into jobs you're not ready for. 633 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:25,239 Speaker 6: What is the best way to render somebody unaware of 634 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 6: what you're doing. If you want to take advantage of them, 635 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,799 Speaker 6: supply them with drugs, then they'll pay you. Then you'll 636 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,960 Speaker 6: be their best friend. And you know, doctors are not 637 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,319 Speaker 6: immune from this. We saw this with Michael Jackson. You know, 638 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,799 Speaker 6: celebrities when they have this horrible, horrible disease state, they 639 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,840 Speaker 6: will go from one person to another to another until 640 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 6: they find somebody who will supply them. And Nancy, I 641 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,400 Speaker 6: just want your audience to know that when an addict 642 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,560 Speaker 6: or a person suffering from addiction has had some period 643 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:59,120 Speaker 6: of sobriety, the next time they use they will binge. Okay, 644 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,759 Speaker 6: that is so commonly known in the field. So let's 645 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:03,960 Speaker 6: take Whitney Houston. She may have been sober for a 646 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,799 Speaker 6: while before she had her you know, overdose when she 647 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 6: came to Los Angeles. We could have seen this with 648 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,720 Speaker 6: Prince So he was in an enormously vulnerable state because 649 00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 6: he was trying to get sober. 650 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,280 Speaker 7: So there was probably a big yo yo. 651 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:21,280 Speaker 6: Between sobriety binging, sobriety binging, and that became a perfect 652 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,040 Speaker 6: storm that led to his death. 653 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 1: It makes people wonder if superstars like Matthew Perry and 654 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:34,600 Speaker 1: actress Brooke Mueller. With all that money, can't be happy 655 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,759 Speaker 1: and resort to drugs and become addicts. What hope is 656 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:40,680 Speaker 1: there for the rest of us? You know what, I'm 657 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,080 Speaker 1: going to stay with being a teetotaler. I'm not even 658 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,680 Speaker 1: going to put my toe in that pond. We wait 659 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,440 Speaker 1: as just as unfolds and this criminal investigation into the 660 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:54,880 Speaker 1: death a friend, star Matthew Perry comes to a culmination. 661 00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,960 Speaker 1: But right now we stop and we remember an American 662 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:03,759 Speaker 1: hero police officer, Peter E. C. Jerving Milwaukee p D, 663 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,920 Speaker 1: Wisconsin Officer Gerving shot killed in the line of duty, 664 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:15,720 Speaker 1: survived by grieving parents Patty and Douglas, and beloved sweetheart Magan. 665 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:21,719 Speaker 1: American hero police officer Peter E. C. Jerving. I want 666 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 1: to thank all of our guests tonight, a real brain 667 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:30,120 Speaker 1: trust as we once again wide into addiction that ends 668 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:34,399 Speaker 1: in death. Thank you for being with us. Nancy Gray 669 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,760 Speaker 1: signing off, goodbye friend.