1
00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:02,880
Speaker 1: Also media.

2
00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:09,280
Speaker 2: Oh holy do it's Behind the Bastards a podcast where

3
00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:11,879
Speaker 2: I finally learned how to open my podcast. I think

4
00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:13,640
Speaker 2: we figured it out. I think we get it locked down.

5
00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:15,160
Speaker 3: Oh who do we do as a keeper?

6
00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:18,160
Speaker 2: That's a keeper, that's a keeper.

7
00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:22,920
Speaker 3: I think yesterday was Duberger.

8
00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:26,800
Speaker 2: That that that one was. That one was a fuck up.

9
00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:29,120
Speaker 2: It was a disaster, not calamity.

10
00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:31,680
Speaker 3: I just think it would be hard to remember to

11
00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:34,560
Speaker 3: how to do it. And again, you're doing.

12
00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:39,880
Speaker 2: Great, Yeah, because I have to get every syllable right, obviously, Yeah,

13
00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,160
Speaker 2: yea do much easier, easy to remember. I can see

14
00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:44,880
Speaker 2: it on T shirts. People are going to be getting

15
00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:46,320
Speaker 2: tattoos of this in like a month.

16
00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:48,640
Speaker 3: Sounds like something you would say if like a fancy

17
00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:50,600
Speaker 3: person corrects you.

18
00:00:53,640 --> 00:01:01,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, now speak of things that are going to be

19
00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:05,080
Speaker 2: on T shirts in a month. Look, I don't know

20
00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:06,800
Speaker 2: how that actually leads us into part two. When we

21
00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:11,600
Speaker 2: ended part one, Eliza Fraser and her husband were taken there.

22
00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,280
Speaker 2: I have no I don't know, Sophie. I just I

23
00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:18,280
Speaker 2: just transitioned sometimes when I'm speaking, and it just usually

24
00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:22,000
Speaker 2: doesn't work very well. We mostly edit in the ones

25
00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,520
Speaker 2: where it did. But that one was a failure. You know,

26
00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:26,160
Speaker 2: I could admit that Jamie.

27
00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,360
Speaker 1: Did send me that send me that picture of the

28
00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:30,119
Speaker 1: two of us when we did that one live show

29
00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,640
Speaker 1: when we wore each other's shirts with each other's faces

30
00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:33,800
Speaker 1: on it and didn't acknowledge it.

31
00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:36,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was good. That was a good move. But

32
00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:38,640
Speaker 2: you know, it's a visual joke. I tried to do

33
00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,479
Speaker 2: too many of those because most people listen to the podcast.

34
00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,119
Speaker 3: Well, who do he do? Look, who's a professional podcast?

35
00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,120
Speaker 2: All a sudden, that says the guy you hired me

36
00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:49,960
Speaker 2: to do podcast?

37
00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:52,760
Speaker 3: All right?

38
00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:58,520
Speaker 2: Now, speaking of getting hired, Eliza Fraser has kind of

39
00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,400
Speaker 2: gotten a job, which is trying not to die while

40
00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:05,560
Speaker 2: living as part of a civilization that survives off the land,

41
00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:07,760
Speaker 2: a thing that she doesn't know how to do, and

42
00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:08,600
Speaker 2: it's not going well.

43
00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,240
Speaker 3: She doesn't understand and they don't understand her.

44
00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:16,359
Speaker 2: Right that no one speaks to each other's language, right, right,

45
00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:20,200
Speaker 2: it's not going great. So we should probably peel back

46
00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,560
Speaker 2: a bit more to talk about the Bachilla's contacts with

47
00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:26,560
Speaker 2: European civilization outside of Captain Cook and the odd Ausy

48
00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:29,639
Speaker 2: prison escapee. Right, we talked about that last time, their

49
00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,400
Speaker 2: first contact. The fact that these prisoners have been like

50
00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,920
Speaker 2: coming in like individually for a while and getting adopted

51
00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,720
Speaker 2: too often. When we discussed kind of the ethnographies of

52
00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,520
Speaker 2: indigenous people being colonized, we sort of dropped like, here's

53
00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:44,720
Speaker 2: what they believed about the world pre contact, and then

54
00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:46,720
Speaker 2: we kind of leave it at that. But again, these

55
00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:50,000
Speaker 2: are not static civilizations, right, no more than you know

56
00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:54,440
Speaker 2: the Europeans themselves were, and they adapted their beliefs many

57
00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:56,959
Speaker 2: times in light of new knowledge about how the world worked.

58
00:02:57,560 --> 00:02:59,640
Speaker 2: As I noted in the last episodes, the natives of

59
00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,120
Speaker 2: what was at that point known to the Europeans as

60
00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:06,080
Speaker 2: Indian Head Island and was called Gari by the people

61
00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:10,799
Speaker 2: then and now, they interpreted their first sights of white

62
00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,639
Speaker 2: people to be spirits returning from the dead. But whiteness

63
00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:17,000
Speaker 2: symbolized death in every way, right, and so they didn't

64
00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,280
Speaker 2: just respond to white people as if they were returning

65
00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,280
Speaker 2: deceased relatives. Sometimes that would happen. You'd meet someone in

66
00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,680
Speaker 2: like a member of the tribe, would get good vibes

67
00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:26,320
Speaker 2: from them. Basically it'd be like, oh, you know what,

68
00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:28,880
Speaker 2: I think, that's like my dad or whatever, you know,

69
00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,560
Speaker 2: my kid or something like that who died recently, But

70
00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,520
Speaker 2: that is not the only way they reacted. Death was

71
00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:36,960
Speaker 2: always involved in their reaction, but it wasn't always like, oh,

72
00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:38,880
Speaker 2: this must be a member of the tribe returned. As

73
00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:43,000
Speaker 2: doctor Peter Lower wrote, their whiteness was symbolic of death, mourning,

74
00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,200
Speaker 2: and apprehension, and so sometimes people were like, oh, no,

75
00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,600
Speaker 2: it's a bad omen that there's white people here, right,

76
00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,080
Speaker 2: because that means like the dead, or like it's this

77
00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:53,280
Speaker 2: is this is a dark thing that's happened.

78
00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:53,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

79
00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,400
Speaker 3: It was always my interpretation, and it's why I'm always

80
00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:58,760
Speaker 3: so nervous right in America.

81
00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,120
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, it's really terrible place for you to live.

82
00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,559
Speaker 3: Like, ooh, I feel like the vibes are off everywhere.

83
00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,320
Speaker 2: Looking in the mirror. Oh no, the go dear God,

84
00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,600
Speaker 2: it's me in August of seventeen. I mean, looking in

85
00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,080
Speaker 2: the mirror does make you think of your own mortality sometimes.

86
00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,200
Speaker 2: But in August of seventeen ninety nine, which is about

87
00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,040
Speaker 2: thirty years after Captain Cook's voyage, an English boat called

88
00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,599
Speaker 2: the Norfolk put ashore on the Great Sandy Island. Captain

89
00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,200
Speaker 2: Matthew Flinders went ashore with a party of men to

90
00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,960
Speaker 2: find water and food near a place called Wootomba Creek.

91
00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:31,960
Speaker 2: As was usually the case, Flinders was mixed up and

92
00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:35,680
Speaker 2: believed he'd found Australia and the Highland was just a promontory.

93
00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:37,960
Speaker 2: That's constantly they have no idea where they are. These

94
00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:40,880
Speaker 2: people the maps are shit, they're bad at reading them.

95
00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:45,680
Speaker 2: They're all drunk. Now they're not just drunk, they're heavily armed.

96
00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:47,760
Speaker 2: And while it's a lot of fun to be heavily

97
00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,680
Speaker 2: armed and drunk, it's also very dangerous for the people

98
00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,800
Speaker 2: around you. And Flinders and his crew were part of

99
00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,400
Speaker 2: like the shoot first and never asked questions ever, like

100
00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,560
Speaker 2: school of being a colonizer who's drunkenly landed on an island.

101
00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:06,440
Speaker 2: And so when like a group of Nogoulungbara tribes people

102
00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,320
Speaker 2: who's like I think they with the people who live

103
00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:10,840
Speaker 2: in the south of Ghari Island, they like come up

104
00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:12,680
Speaker 2: to see these new people have landed, and they do

105
00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,480
Speaker 2: what normally happens, like okay, well let's go look at this,

106
00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,840
Speaker 2: and Flinders and his crew just start shooting, like they

107
00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:24,320
Speaker 2: just they just start blasting immediately right, They like fire

108
00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:26,960
Speaker 2: a cannon at the tribe for no apparent reason, and

109
00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,359
Speaker 2: the tribe runs away, which is a reasonable thing to

110
00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,520
Speaker 2: do when someone shoots at you. Now, this we don't

111
00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:34,679
Speaker 2: know if this was, you know, anyone on the island's

112
00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,840
Speaker 2: first experience with gunfire, but it's the first recorded one

113
00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,159
Speaker 2: we have, And we have a record of this from

114
00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,720
Speaker 2: one of their songs, which roughly translated states that one

115
00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,240
Speaker 2: of the white men quote two times, held up something

116
00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,640
Speaker 2: and made loud noise and smoke Kong kong. I think

117
00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,280
Speaker 2: that's how they onum on a pia the sound of gunfire,

118
00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:56,640
Speaker 2: which is you know, not bad perfectly. Yeah. So one

119
00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:58,680
Speaker 2: thing that's so interesting to me about this story is

120
00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:00,479
Speaker 2: that it's a really good example again of how much

121
00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:04,560
Speaker 2: accurate historical information can be passed down through the centuries

122
00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,600
Speaker 2: in an oral tradition like this. Because the captain's men

123
00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,479
Speaker 2: also reported firing twice. So you have both this song

124
00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,960
Speaker 2: and like documentation from the sailors that they shot twice.

125
00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:20,200
Speaker 3: I find them down across history, totally unrelated from one another.

126
00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:22,880
Speaker 2: It's so interesting, yeah, because usually when you're like, well,

127
00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,599
Speaker 2: these people have an oral tradition of storytelling, it's discussed

128
00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,080
Speaker 2: as like storytelling, it's like myth, but like, no, this

129
00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,120
Speaker 2: is no this is not really necessarily less accurate than

130
00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:33,680
Speaker 2: like a fucking newspaper in London at the time, right,

131
00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:35,760
Speaker 2: which is also a lot of times wrong or filled

132
00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,040
Speaker 2: with lies, right like. And I'm not saying the songs

133
00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,360
Speaker 2: are all like the songs. Clearly, this is people recording

134
00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:45,279
Speaker 2: their history. So people always have an agenda when recording

135
00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,880
Speaker 2: their history. But it's also a lot of very very

136
00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,640
Speaker 2: accurate grain gets through in the history as a result

137
00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:54,919
Speaker 2: of this, these oral these songs, which I think is

138
00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:55,799
Speaker 2: really interesting.

139
00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:58,280
Speaker 3: I mean, we made up Paul Revere just because of

140
00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:04,159
Speaker 3: name rhymed right right. Song is not always the our

141
00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,279
Speaker 3: best way of recording things, right, So it's kind of

142
00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,240
Speaker 3: impressive that they're getting the right number of shots down

143
00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:09,720
Speaker 3: through tons.

144
00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,240
Speaker 2: It's often very good and so that's all I'm saying.

145
00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:14,520
Speaker 2: It's not that like you shouldn't view you know, these

146
00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:18,880
Speaker 2: oral like stories that the people on Ghari are surely

147
00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,760
Speaker 2: is like one hundred percent you know, accurate history all

148
00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,920
Speaker 2: the time, but you shouldn't view it as just like mythology,

149
00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,880
Speaker 2: right right. This is an attempt at recording history, and

150
00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,640
Speaker 2: like all attempts, like herodotus, it's not perfect, but you

151
00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,560
Speaker 2: shouldn't see it as like less accurate than herodotus, right.

152
00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,880
Speaker 2: And the term for this mix of singing and dancing

153
00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:42,160
Speaker 2: and storytelling to preserve history among the people of Ghari

154
00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:46,920
Speaker 2: Island is called a corroboree. That's the term I found

155
00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:50,520
Speaker 2: for it. So yeah, After one of Flinder's men fired

156
00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:54,760
Speaker 2: upon the Nagoulungbara, Peter Lower writes, one of their number, women, Gala,

157
00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,280
Speaker 2: who hid in the nearby bushes, watched the whites collecting

158
00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,760
Speaker 2: water and killing some wild fowl with their terrible weapons

159
00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,360
Speaker 2: returning to the ship. Their heads are like Dingo's tails,

160
00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,840
Speaker 2: the corroboree continued, impossible reference to the sailor's plaited hair

161
00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:09,200
Speaker 2: or the kerchiefs they wore as head covering like the

162
00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:12,400
Speaker 2: ceremonial Dingo tail headbands of the adult males of the tribe.

163
00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,600
Speaker 2: The paddles are woods or like wood shaped by the fire.

164
00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,520
Speaker 2: They're ongoing attempt by the Aboriginal people to relate the

165
00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:22,080
Speaker 2: inexplicable to what could be culturally comprehended is thus most

166
00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:25,280
Speaker 2: apparent in these careful observations. And again like yeah, you

167
00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:27,440
Speaker 2: get like these recordings of how they looked, and they're

168
00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:31,080
Speaker 2: trying to kind of comparing their appearance to like their

169
00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:35,400
Speaker 2: own appearance, right. Like, it's this really the amount of

170
00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,480
Speaker 2: like fidelity you get in this attempt of one culture

171
00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,080
Speaker 2: to comprehend another in some ways, in a lot of ways,

172
00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:43,560
Speaker 2: much better than the European accounts of the same thing

173
00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:44,960
Speaker 2: I find really interesting.

174
00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, the European account being like they're basically animals. Now

175
00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,480
Speaker 3: you tried to like shoot at them where they ran

176
00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:52,480
Speaker 3: away like animals.

177
00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:56,040
Speaker 2: The Nagoulambara are trying to kind of do their own anthropology.

178
00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:58,000
Speaker 2: They're trying to get in these people's heads to understand

179
00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,800
Speaker 2: like why are you doing what you're doing? What are right? Which, yeah,

180
00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:06,520
Speaker 2: it's just really interesting to me. So Flinders returned to

181
00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:09,360
Speaker 2: the island in eighteen o two, which is three years later,

182
00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:12,520
Speaker 2: with a party of scientists to collect plants, and an

183
00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:16,959
Speaker 2: aboriginal person from the mainland named Bongaree like was brought

184
00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,720
Speaker 2: with them. So they take this indigenous person from like

185
00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,320
Speaker 2: the mainland with them because he can probably talk to

186
00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,160
Speaker 2: these guys, and they manage to make some sort of

187
00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:30,920
Speaker 2: friendly contact with the Nagoulungbara, who are understandably nervous because

188
00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:32,800
Speaker 2: the last time they saw this guy he shot at

189
00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,480
Speaker 2: them and they could see guns like in the hands

190
00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:37,920
Speaker 2: of men on the island and know what they mean. Now,

191
00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,240
Speaker 2: Flinders tried to bribe them with an offering of blubber

192
00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,000
Speaker 2: from porpoises, and he's like, well, this is a valuable

193
00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:48,240
Speaker 2: gift by my standards, because like animal fat is useful

194
00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:52,400
Speaker 2: for cooking. But the islanders didn't hunter kill porpoise because

195
00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,040
Speaker 2: they to them, the porpoise drive the mullet and whiting

196
00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:58,480
Speaker 2: fish into their nets, so they see them as allies,

197
00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:00,760
Speaker 2: like we work with the Porpoise's really fucked up for

198
00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,000
Speaker 2: you to kill them. They're like our friends who help

199
00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:04,800
Speaker 2: us get food. Why did you murder one?

200
00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:08,080
Speaker 3: They're like the fish shepherd, Yeah, he just killed him.

201
00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:09,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he's useful.

202
00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,280
Speaker 3: Hey, we killed your friend. Do you want some of this?

203
00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,200
Speaker 3: Do you want some of the stuff in their body? Man?

204
00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:16,600
Speaker 2: Why don't these people like this stuff?

205
00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:16,840
Speaker 3: Yeah?

206
00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:19,880
Speaker 2: It's it's yeah anyway, So for the next about that's

207
00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:23,240
Speaker 2: like kind of the last well documented contact between the

208
00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:27,079
Speaker 2: Europeans and people on the island for like thirty years

209
00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,880
Speaker 2: or so, right, even though there's some ships that semi

210
00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:33,079
Speaker 2: regularly stop and obviously some convicts who find their way.

211
00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:37,839
Speaker 2: This is like when Eliza Fraser lands, they're like last contacts,

212
00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:41,160
Speaker 2: detailed contacts with Europeans that they had stories of were like, yeah,

213
00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,280
Speaker 2: they tried to kill us and then they killed one

214
00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,959
Speaker 2: of our friends. So it's kind of amazing that they

215
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:50,000
Speaker 2: treat her and her fellow shipmates so well given that history.

216
00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,680
Speaker 3: And it's kind of a less of the white Gods

217
00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,120
Speaker 3: descended from the sea and more of a these assholes again,

218
00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:58,800
Speaker 3: yeah type situation.

219
00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:00,439
Speaker 2: And it you know, this is something I don't think

220
00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:02,000
Speaker 2: we have perfect texture on, but it does kind of

221
00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:03,920
Speaker 2: seem like by the time they take her in, they

222
00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:05,720
Speaker 2: have moved on to like, yeah, these probably aren't the

223
00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:09,360
Speaker 2: dead return. These are like some kind of assholes, some

224
00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:14,440
Speaker 2: species of assholes, specific assholes they're clearly willing to be like,

225
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,800
Speaker 2: but maybe not all of them suck. Well, we'll try

226
00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:21,120
Speaker 2: to stop these people from dying, right, So again, we'll

227
00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,200
Speaker 2: discuss further how Eliza described them as cruel and vicious,

228
00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,120
Speaker 2: But it is also important to note that other survivors

229
00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:31,520
Speaker 2: of this shipwreck talk very differently about this people. Robert

230
00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:35,440
Speaker 2: Darje is often considered the most dependable and reliable source

231
00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,880
Speaker 2: of first hand accounts from the Sterling Castle survivors, and

232
00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:42,559
Speaker 2: he described the locals as treating them very hard and stated,

233
00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,359
Speaker 2: we had to work severely to get fish in kangaroos.

234
00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,000
Speaker 2: But it's also clear he understood that this hardness was

235
00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,679
Speaker 2: a product of the difficulty of survival on the island,

236
00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,320
Speaker 2: and added, I cannot call them a cruel people. So like, yeah,

237
00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:56,839
Speaker 2: they we had to work. It's difficult, but like they

238
00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:00,400
Speaker 2: weren't mean this is just the only way to live there.

239
00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:04,880
Speaker 3: Fucking doarj Dargy, great last name. It does sound like

240
00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:10,520
Speaker 3: somebody I used to get ship faced with. Yeah, Dargy Dargy.

241
00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,040
Speaker 2: You might compare Eliza's situation in this to like a

242
00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,920
Speaker 2: post apocalyptic story where some Instagram influencer flees the city

243
00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,400
Speaker 2: and finds refuge in an off grid farm and they're

244
00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,640
Speaker 2: like taken care of, but like they have to learn

245
00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:24,600
Speaker 2: how to work, right. It's it is kind of like

246
00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:26,320
Speaker 2: this that sort of situation. Right, This is like a

247
00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,320
Speaker 2: middle class person who's now having to learn how to

248
00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:32,120
Speaker 2: live off the land, and she seems to have taken

249
00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:36,320
Speaker 2: grave offens to this. Peter Lower notes in his excellent

250
00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:38,800
Speaker 2: History of the Island. It was later reported that Missus

251
00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,679
Speaker 2: Fraser was compelled to dragon wood for the fires and

252
00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:45,239
Speaker 2: fetch water with as much cruelty as the Gins themselves.

253
00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:47,920
Speaker 2: This is from like a piece of reporting at the

254
00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:53,600
Speaker 2: time that's obviously a on the like on the slur spectrum.

255
00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:57,600
Speaker 3: Right Gins themselves. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that seems bad.

256
00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, And as she herself claim, she was constantly beaten

257
00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,720
Speaker 2: when incapable of carrying the heavy loads they put upon me. Now,

258
00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,200
Speaker 2: Lauer does go into some detail about how hideously traumatic

259
00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:11,640
Speaker 2: the crew's experiences before this had been, and when they

260
00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,199
Speaker 2: came upon the Bachola it was late winter, the most

261
00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:16,320
Speaker 2: meager season of the year, which means that not only

262
00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,560
Speaker 2: were Eliza and Ufellow's starving, but everyone kind of was.

263
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,520
Speaker 2: The shipwrecked survivors had gone through a shipwreck, so they

264
00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,200
Speaker 2: were ill. They're not good for a lot of work initially,

265
00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:27,760
Speaker 2: which means they're being supported by the resources of people

266
00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:32,160
Speaker 2: who are hungry themselves. When interviewed later, surviving Islanders described

267
00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,280
Speaker 2: the shipwreck survivors as being incapable of foraging, quote at

268
00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,760
Speaker 2: which even small children were expert. So like, even our

269
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,200
Speaker 2: little kids are better at living than you, guys, Like,

270
00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,480
Speaker 2: what the fuck is wrong with you? And their incompetence

271
00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:46,240
Speaker 2: was galling enough that it may have provoked VI.

272
00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:48,000
Speaker 3: She just would have been so easy for them to

273
00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:50,839
Speaker 3: if they were even to die, if they were as

274
00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:55,360
Speaker 3: cruel as like any aspect of this universe asks us

275
00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:57,560
Speaker 3: to believe, it would have been so easy for them

276
00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:00,520
Speaker 3: to just kill them like they they are not useful

277
00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:00,960
Speaker 3: to them.

278
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,120
Speaker 2: You know, they're not helping, they're not making anyone's life

279
00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:11,480
Speaker 2: better right now. Robert Darje also came to expect uh yeah,

280
00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:14,000
Speaker 2: And this is what I find Diars interesting because like

281
00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:17,240
Speaker 2: he's not like sugarcoating the situation. He's like, you know,

282
00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:20,040
Speaker 2: I did face hostility from some of them. Some of

283
00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,920
Speaker 2: them even like tried to do violence to me, and

284
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,200
Speaker 2: I think it was because the last time they met

285
00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:29,360
Speaker 2: Europeans they'd been shot. Quote. I believe that the reason

286
00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:31,600
Speaker 2: some had such a hatred of me was that soldiers

287
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,120
Speaker 2: had wounded them. I observed lost his leg had a

288
00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,280
Speaker 2: desperate hatred of me, and he tried to kill me

289
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:38,400
Speaker 2: three or four times.

290
00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:43,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, the guy a leg off. But the guy, yeah.

291
00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:45,920
Speaker 3: Did they were they armed at this point?

292
00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,600
Speaker 2: Yes? They still they have some sort of arms. It's

293
00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:50,840
Speaker 2: unclear to me how well they're able to use them.

294
00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:53,560
Speaker 2: There are reports that they had guns, but obviously I

295
00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:55,280
Speaker 2: don't know how much powder they got away with. I

296
00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,040
Speaker 2: don't know how damaged the weapons were by the water

297
00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:00,160
Speaker 2: and the shipwreck, so they may not have been and

298
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:04,200
Speaker 2: super usable, right, got it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, And it's

299
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:08,280
Speaker 2: interesting to me that, like again, like these shipwrecks also

300
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,840
Speaker 2: are not a monolith. You know, you've got Eliza who's

301
00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:12,480
Speaker 2: gonna tell these fucked up stories, and you got Dars.

302
00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:14,360
Speaker 2: She's like, yeah, this guy tried to kill me, but

303
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:16,520
Speaker 2: he had his leg blown off by a cannon, So

304
00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,280
Speaker 2: like I get it, you know, like, yeah, I'd probably

305
00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:20,840
Speaker 2: be pretty pissed for.

306
00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,880
Speaker 3: Literally no reason. Like they were doing our favorite pastime

307
00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:26,920
Speaker 3: at that time, which was watching a ship come in

308
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:31,600
Speaker 3: and like what's happening those basically the movies back then. Yeah,

309
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:33,840
Speaker 3: we'dn't go down to the dock and wave at a ship.

310
00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:35,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, people shot them.

311
00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they had shot with a fucking can Jesus.

312
00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:40,160
Speaker 2: And so that's probably when we talk about like some

313
00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,040
Speaker 2: people were like would have been violent when these folks

314
00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,360
Speaker 2: like failed to do their choice. Well, maybe some of

315
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:47,760
Speaker 2: the reason why they were forceful is that they'd had

316
00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:51,120
Speaker 2: friends and family killed or been injured themselves by European guns,

317
00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:56,720
Speaker 2: you know, not the craziest scenario wild take. Yeah, So

318
00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,120
Speaker 2: you know, there's some other things happening here. There's all

319
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:02,720
Speaker 2: this kind of lingering belief that these people have something

320
00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:06,080
Speaker 2: to do with return to spirits, and like when someone dies,

321
00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,000
Speaker 2: you burn their shelter because it's bad luck to have

322
00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,200
Speaker 2: the shelter around the spirit might get stuck there. And

323
00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:14,440
Speaker 2: so there was this attitude that like, well, they don't

324
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:17,160
Speaker 2: need to sleep indoors, right, which is bad for them,

325
00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:20,280
Speaker 2: you know, like it doesn't make this any more comfortable, sure,

326
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:22,840
Speaker 2: but they're not trying to be assholes by doing that.

327
00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,800
Speaker 2: Probably the kind of darkest matter of conflict here is

328
00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,000
Speaker 2: the matter of what happened to Captain Fraser. We don't

329
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:34,520
Speaker 2: know exactly, but Eliza's husband was killed or died soon

330
00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,840
Speaker 2: after they were taken in by the tribe. Eliza would

331
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,120
Speaker 2: later claim that about after about five weeks with the Bachola,

332
00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:43,760
Speaker 2: she saw her husband trying and failing to drag a

333
00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,440
Speaker 2: log for like the fire, and he was in bad

334
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,000
Speaker 2: health and not able to do this very well. And

335
00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,280
Speaker 2: as she described it, a hunting party returned home empty handed.

336
00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:54,680
Speaker 2: And for some reason one of the men stabbed Captain

337
00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:55,800
Speaker 2: Fraser in the chest.

338
00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:56,600
Speaker 3: Quote.

339
00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,000
Speaker 2: I was horrified to see it emerge several inches through

340
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:00,920
Speaker 2: his chest. I pulled this fear from his body and

341
00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,440
Speaker 2: from his mouth. An immense quantity of blood spouted, and

342
00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:07,320
Speaker 2: he died. She furthermore claimed that after this two other

343
00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:12,320
Speaker 2: survivors were tied to stakes and executed by sun exposure. Confusingly,

344
00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,159
Speaker 2: she also claims that several crewmen who escaped were burnt,

345
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,080
Speaker 2: but others were taken to the mainland. There is no

346
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:20,840
Speaker 2: evidence of this but her account, and in fact, there

347
00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,200
Speaker 2: is no evidence that any survivors of the shipwreck died

348
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:28,600
Speaker 2: on Fraser Island at all. The chief officer, Charles Brown,

349
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,560
Speaker 2: who Eliza claims was burnt at the stake, died on

350
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:35,920
Speaker 2: the Australian mainland. Her husband died at Lake Cutharaba, which

351
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,399
Speaker 2: is also on the mainland, and he was in fact

352
00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,040
Speaker 2: stabbed with a spear at some point, although this did

353
00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,560
Speaker 2: not kill him immediately like she claimed. Instead, it seems

354
00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,200
Speaker 2: like what happened is like someone slapped him in annoyance

355
00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,879
Speaker 2: with a spear which caused like a superficial wound, but

356
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,760
Speaker 2: he was sick and it got infected, and so two

357
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,800
Speaker 2: weeks later he dies as a result of the injury, right,

358
00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,520
Speaker 2: which is a very different story on the mainland. Yeah,

359
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,240
Speaker 2: on the mainland. Also because they take them to the mainland.

360
00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:07,960
Speaker 1: He was so annoying that somebody spar spear slapped him.

361
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:08,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, to death.

362
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:10,960
Speaker 2: That's kind of what it sounds like. We don't know,

363
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,280
Speaker 2: because again she lies about all this, Like she says

364
00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:16,400
Speaker 2: it happens on the island. They are taken off the island,

365
00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:20,640
Speaker 2: like by the Butchola. It doesn't happen there. The guy

366
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,440
Speaker 2: she claims is burnt to death definitely isn't burnt to death,

367
00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,639
Speaker 2: And her husband isn't just like impaled and bleeds to

368
00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:30,080
Speaker 2: death immediately, like he suffers a light wound that gets

369
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:31,960
Speaker 2: infected and he dies two weeks later.

370
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:35,200
Speaker 1: This is a big episode for the women. Lie guys,

371
00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:40,879
Speaker 1: Yeah maybe, I mean I didn't trust her from the beginning.

372
00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:46,240
Speaker 2: Okay, speaking of lies, that's kind of what advertisements are.

373
00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:48,679
Speaker 3: Sure, beautiful lies.

374
00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:55,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, beautiful lies. Believe them, just like Australian people believed Eliza.

375
00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:04,520
Speaker 2: Ah ah, and we are back. So in all, Eliza

376
00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:06,800
Speaker 2: spent about three months with the Batchola and By the

377
00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:09,760
Speaker 2: time she was rescued by her fellow Europeans, she'd been

378
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,000
Speaker 2: moved to the mainland. Her rescue was affected largely thanks

379
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,760
Speaker 2: to an Irish convict named John Graham, who's another one

380
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:17,919
Speaker 2: of these really cool guys you hear about in this

381
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,800
Speaker 2: story that I want more about. Yeah, he had previously

382
00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,320
Speaker 2: wound up on Fraser Island, so he was he was

383
00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,520
Speaker 2: a convict who had like escaped to Fraser Island and

384
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,120
Speaker 2: he had been taken in by locals who adopted him

385
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,440
Speaker 2: as Moilo, the spirit of an elder who had died recently,

386
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:34,600
Speaker 2: And he basically been taken in by the old man's

387
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,880
Speaker 2: wife and sons and spent six years living as part

388
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,640
Speaker 2: of the family and then headed back to the mainland.

389
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,400
Speaker 1: What is happening in this?

390
00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,960
Speaker 2: In this, I mean people could just do stuff back then,

391
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,439
Speaker 2: Like there was it was really easy to die doing stuff,

392
00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:52,320
Speaker 2: but you had a lot of options for you know what,

393
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,720
Speaker 2: I'm going to live a completely different kind of life

394
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:56,119
Speaker 2: now for like six years.

395
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,479
Speaker 1: Bye, I'm still stuck on you're annoying. I'm gonna spear

396
00:19:59,520 --> 00:19:59,720
Speaker 1: you in.

397
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,280
Speaker 2: The I have definitely met some people that had I

398
00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:05,360
Speaker 2: had a spear in hand. I would have slapped them

399
00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:09,040
Speaker 2: with it. Now, thankfully, we have modern methods of cleaning

400
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:11,200
Speaker 2: spear wounds here, so every time I've done that, I've

401
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,080
Speaker 2: been able to stop them from, you know, dying of

402
00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:13,640
Speaker 2: an infection.

403
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:15,920
Speaker 3: It would have been a friendly spear slap to the chest.

404
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:20,919
Speaker 2: Oh, it wouldn't have been friendly. But so anyway, this

405
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 2: guy John Graham, right, he'd spent six years or so

406
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,760
Speaker 2: living with the Batola, and then he had returned to

407
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:31,520
Speaker 2: European civilization and he had gotten imprisoned again. Right, so

408
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:35,680
Speaker 2: he's he's in custody. But when members like folks from

409
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:39,560
Speaker 2: the Pinnis who had like left, get back and are like, yeah, there's.

410
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:41,760
Speaker 3: Spelling, by the way, I just have to ask.

411
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:43,639
Speaker 2: The pennis p I n n acee.

412
00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:44,919
Speaker 3: Okay, got it.

413
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,560
Speaker 2: So when they get back, people are like, hey, there's

414
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:52,800
Speaker 2: more shipwrecked victims that are out somewhere near this island,

415
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,640
Speaker 2: you know, off the coast. We should go get them.

416
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:56,400
Speaker 3: They tried.

417
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,520
Speaker 2: They start to, like local authorities start to put together

418
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:00,879
Speaker 2: a rescue party, and someone's like, well, there's this dude

419
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,880
Speaker 2: in prison, John Graham, who like lived on that island

420
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,399
Speaker 2: for a while. He probably knows how to talk to

421
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 2: people and can probably find them right from the rock. Basically, yes, yes,

422
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,640
Speaker 2: this is a this is this is the Yes.

423
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, well there's only one man who knows in there.

424
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,639
Speaker 2: He's in the island is where he went to escape

425
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:24,560
Speaker 2: from prison as the prison.

426
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:26,640
Speaker 3: Was in its complicated but yeah. Basically.

427
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 2: In his book Irish Convict Lives, author DJ mulvaney describes

428
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 2: Graham stripping himself as soon as he's like, yeah, I'll go,

429
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:38,120
Speaker 2: I'll go rescue these people. He strips naked, greases himself up,

430
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,400
Speaker 2: and then leaves with bread and a potato.

431
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,639
Speaker 3: And which is what you did immediately after accepting my

432
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,919
Speaker 3: offer to work at a at iHeart.

433
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I stripped naked, he creased myself bread and

434
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,119
Speaker 2: a potato and we're out the door. Yeah. I know

435
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 2: it sounds like I'm being like racist to Irish people,

436
00:21:57,560 --> 00:21:59,840
Speaker 2: but that is what the history says is He's just

437
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 2: march up with your Brendona potato. According to Fianz, who's

438
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,360
Speaker 2: like one of the authorities at the time, Graham stripped

439
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 2: off his close, greased himself up with charcoal and greece,

440
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 2: and set off to seek information, armed only with some

441
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,960
Speaker 2: bread and and a potato. He was soon welcomed back

442
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 2: among his people, observing customary ritual by sharing his carbohydrate

443
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,159
Speaker 2: rich food with them around the fire. That night, he

444
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 2: learned of the presence of two young ghosts across Lake Kurobora.

445
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 1: Uh.

446
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:28,879
Speaker 2: He offered tomahawks to those who brought them to him,

447
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,480
Speaker 2: for he's stressed. They were my sons. So maybe he's

448
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 2: not working like he's looking for like two men who

449
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 2: were among the shipwrecked people. He's not really thinking about

450
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 2: Eliza for whatever reason.

451
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 3: Oh, those are the ghosts, are the white Yeah, shipwrecked victims.

452
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 2: Right, That's how he's talking about it to his people

453
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 2: on Fraser Island and they're like, well, we already actually

454
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:51,400
Speaker 2: took them across like the strait to the mainland. They're

455
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:52,880
Speaker 2: over you know, by this lake now.

456
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,960
Speaker 3: Yeah. Just a world class bullshitter who's like yeah. And

457
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 3: then I told them that they.

458
00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 2: Were ghosts and they're my sons, my other kids, the only.

459
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 3: Way they could possibly understand.

460
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 2: He's got the he's Irish, he's got the gift of

461
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 2: gab and he and he brought up potato, so you

462
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 2: know they're endeared to him. You bring me a potato

463
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 2: and some axes. I'm going to be your friend.

464
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 3: Based on his behavior and having nothing to do with

465
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 3: his Irish heritage, I'm going to be forced to assume

466
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 3: that he was shitfaced this whole time.

467
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 2: One has to guess, right, I'm not. I'm not going

468
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 2: off on this mission sober.

469
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 1: Was the taking all of his clothes off and greasing up.

470
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 2: And I don't know, maybe he does this like on

471
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 2: the boat when they get him near the island. But

472
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 2: the way the story is it like he's like in Sydney,

473
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:36,359
Speaker 2: had just stripped naked.

474
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 3: They're like halfway through giving him the assignment and he's

475
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,239
Speaker 3: already taking his clothes off.

476
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:46,479
Speaker 2: This guy got his dick out immediately. He was down. Anyway,

477
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 2: to make a long story short, Graham saves the day.

478
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 2: He rescues a couple of the remaining crew members and

479
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 2: Eliza Fraser, for which he was rewarded with his freedom,

480
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 2: and he went on to live an apparently law abiding life.

481
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 2: There's a book about him called John Graham, Convict eight

482
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,399
Speaker 2: teen twenty four that was published by Robert Gibbings in

483
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty seven. Grandma, but he doesn't really seem to

484
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 2: have done much after this. He at least doesn't wind

485
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 2: up in trouble again, So good for you, John Graham.

486
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:12,920
Speaker 3: Fucking Grambo, guys, a legend.

487
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 2: Granbo. Yeah yeah, loves being naked and covered in grease.

488
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, fucking animal dude.

489
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,360
Speaker 2: Thanks to Grambo, Eliza wound up back in Sydney, where

490
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 2: she spent several months recovering physically from the trauma of

491
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,880
Speaker 2: the journey and crafting the first versions of what will

492
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,919
Speaker 2: soon be her famous story. Her exact motivations after this

493
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 2: point will forever be unclear. There are many things we

494
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,159
Speaker 2: know that she lied about, such as the nature of

495
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,640
Speaker 2: several of the deaths of her crewman, But then there

496
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 2: are things that may be down to interpretation. For example,

497
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,159
Speaker 2: perhaps she interpreted the behavior of the Bachila as cruel

498
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 2: when it was not, and felt a need to punish

499
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,880
Speaker 2: them by lying and exaggerating what had occurred. The idea

500
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 2: of an English lady living among Aboriginal people on an

501
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,159
Speaker 2: island for months tidillated white society, not just in Sydney

502
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:02,959
Speaker 2: but around the globe. And we kind of we have

503
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 2: global media by the mid eighteen thirties. Newspapers and stuff

504
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 2: get around, so this story doesn't just stay in Sydney.

505
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 2: For very long. In addition to that, like people are

506
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 2: leaving constantly Sydney on boats and they're spreading the story

507
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 2: around the whole British Empire. Eliza gives her first version

508
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 2: of events when she's still in Moreton Bay in September

509
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 2: of eighteen thirty six, and this was noted by Peter Lower,

510
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 2: the historian, as being the least sensational version of the

511
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 2: story she would provide. He writes that this version of

512
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 2: events was quote gradually embroidered with new horrors in Sydney

513
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 2: and London for the titillation of eager audiences and anticipation

514
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 2: of financial recompense.

515
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 3: Right like basically a stand up routine that like they're

516
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 3: just like working on their material. They're seeing what gets

517
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 3: a reaction, they're steering it in that direction.

518
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 2: And yeah, it's also and there's a little bit of

519
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 2: like a go fundme situation here where she's like because

520
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 2: she is raising like donations to help her for this,

521
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:00,959
Speaker 2: and she's kind of like the original story, I got

522
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 2: to if I'm going to really get donations, I gotta

523
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:04,679
Speaker 2: make people feel sorry for me, if they're going to

524
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 2: open their pocketbooks.

525
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 3: Here. It's a good system. Capitalism it's great love. I

526
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 3: love the way it works. Oh my husband is dead.

527
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 3: I'm going to have to tell enormous, harmful lies in

528
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 3: order to get people to give me their money, because

529
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 3: otherwise I'll starve to death.

530
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 2: It's simply the only way to succeed. There is some

531
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 2: debate that she may have been coaxed along injuicing up

532
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,159
Speaker 2: the story by her second husband, the man she married

533
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 2: not long after be like within weeks of being rescued

534
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 2: another captain. She's got a type John Green, and at

535
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 2: least one version of Evince is that Green helps her

536
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,199
Speaker 2: massage and maybe even written the second version of the

537
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 2: story into something that was more fit to win sympathy

538
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 2: and money from the English citizen rate, because he takes

539
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 2: her from Sydney to London, right, and they get a

540
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,439
Speaker 2: bunch of donations in Sydney with the first version of

541
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 2: the story enough that she's doing well. She's got like

542
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,400
Speaker 2: enough money to start a new life, and she's also

543
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 2: now married to a captain. But he takes her to London,

544
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,919
Speaker 2: where they publish another version of events and they start

545
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 2: raising money again to compensate for Miss Fraser now missus

546
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 2: Green's trauma. Eliza again she's like has done pretty well previously,

547
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 2: which may have had something to do with why Green

548
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 2: married her in February of the next year. But we

549
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 2: don't really know that he wrote her version of events.

550
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 2: The best evidence for this is that when they land

551
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 2: in London, they published a more embellished version of the story,

552
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 2: and the signature on this was different from how Eliza

553
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 2: had signed her first account and how she'd signed documents

554
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 2: in the past, and people wonder, oh, was Green just

555
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 2: kind of forging her signature? Did like he do this?

556
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 3: Right? We'll never know because I mean it's being written,

557
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:51,880
Speaker 3: so it must be the man right.

558
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 2: Right, right right. And that's also a woman could never

559
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 2: lie about things that happened to her for money.

560
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 3: Yes, too ingenious. I also wonder like was there so

561
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 3: element of like when people find out that she lived

562
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 3: out there with this tribe for so long, Like is

563
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:13,159
Speaker 3: there some like looking askance and being like, uh, she

564
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,160
Speaker 3: went savage or you know that was like a big

565
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 3: term at the time, Like.

566
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,919
Speaker 2: Yes, a wild European I think was another way they

567
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 2: put it. A wild white person. Yeah, wild white man.

568
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 2: That's what they call these convicts.

569
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's having to like do some reputation, like by

570
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 3: acting like she was that they were mean to her

571
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 3: and not that she was like accepted into the tribe

572
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 3: as like helping her kind of save face a little bit.

573
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 2: Yes, I think that's part of it too, because there's

574
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 2: also all these myths or these rumors about like well,

575
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 2: did she sleep with any of them or did any

576
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 2: of them like rape her? Right, Like that's a that's

577
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 2: a thing that people talk about, and she kind of

578
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 2: plays into to an extent because again, it it increases

579
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 2: the sympathy of the story a little bit, but you

580
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 2: also can't go too far because it's bad for your reputation. Right,

581
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 2: there's like a lot of patriarchal norms in the society

582
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 2: that also play into how she's received and what she says.

583
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, that makes sense, Like that feels like that's something

584
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 3: that's got to be playing in there. That's got to

585
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 3: be like at least a consideration for her and her

586
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 3: new captain husband as they're like deciding. Yeah.

587
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the version of the story that she disseminates

588
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 2: in London, the natives of Fraser Island, which had been

589
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 2: named Fraser Island at that point. Again it's always called Gari,

590
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 2: but people now call it Fraser Island because her husband

591
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 2: had died there, even though he didn't die there, he

592
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 2: died on the mainland. The people there are depicted as

593
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 2: nightmare savages. She called her time with them a fate

594
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 2: worse than death. She described them as cannibals, and she

595
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 2: of course raised money from the people of London offer suffering.

596
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 2: Now again, global media does exist by this point, and

597
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 2: so as soon as she starts telling this story in London,

598
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 2: there are people who had been in Sydney and traveled

599
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 2: on different boats, maybe even on the same one, and

600
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 2: we're like, well, she teared it. First off, she's raising

601
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 2: money here. She just raised money in Sydney and she

602
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 2: got a lot. And second it's a different story. Now

603
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 2: is she telling you guys she doesn't have any money

604
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 2: like this? This kind of seems fucked up, And so

605
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 2: some people go to the London press, to journalists and

606
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 2: are like, this lady might be a grifter, right, which

607
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 2: actually causes a scandal, Like there's articles about this because

608
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 2: she comes and she's initially everyone's really sympathetic and giving

609
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 2: her money, and then there's stories that like she's she's

610
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 2: raising money a second time off this story and it's

611
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 2: different now, right.

612
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 3: Which probably also doesn't really hurt the virality. The old

613
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 3: timey virality of the story is.

614
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 2: Controversy sells baby, no bad pr.

615
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, controversy. So now, yeah, the story isn't doesn't have

616
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 3: like more legs if it's just like and that's messed up. Yeah,

617
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 3: well there goes that story. Now it's like, wait that

618
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,120
Speaker 3: she might be the villain, yeah, the story actually and

619
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 3: then yeah.

620
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 2: This is why periodically I'll just make up a bastard

621
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 2: to do episodes on. For example, Hitler, not a real guy.

622
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 2: I just I just came up with him, you know,

623
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 2: Joseph Stalin.

624
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 3: There's a lot of people who want to believe that

625
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 3: you did make that one.

626
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you're right.

627
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 3: He's actually a normal guy who gets a bad rap

628
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:26,479
Speaker 3: a lot.

629
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 2: Just a painter, right, Yeah, look, Sophie, they can't all

630
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 2: be Unfortunately, not all the bits are terrible. Actually, I

631
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,959
Speaker 2: don't know, they have to be bits. So this causes

632
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 2: a scandal and there's a formal inquiry in London, which

633
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 2: is where she gives her third and final version of

634
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 2: her story. Right, so the third version of this story

635
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 2: is like she hands gives out in court when she

636
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 2: is questioned as to what happened. And this is the

637
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 2: first version of the story where she claims she was

638
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 2: forced to nurse a child by the island and that

639
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 2: she had given birth to a baby who died. And

640
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 2: maybe so part of why people say she may have

641
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 2: lied about these things or even likely did is that like, well,

642
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 2: she's in trouble when she first starts telling people about this,

643
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 2: and maybe like that's why she brings this up, is

644
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 2: she's like she doesn't want this inquiry to be meet

645
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 2: like to judge her too harshly, so like, well, if

646
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 2: they feel like my baby died and I had to

647
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 2: like nurse this baby, who I am going to She

648
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 2: describes the infant as subhuman. She calls it quote one

649
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 2: of the most deformed and ugly looking brats my eyes

650
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 2: ever beheld. She is very racist.

651
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 3: It's also just like you made the point earlier that

652
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 3: this it becomes like a Marvel cinematic universe of like

653
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 3: multiple stories, like it is the writing process of a

654
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 3: film where they're like the protects baby in there. Yeah,

655
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 3: she's not like sympathetic enough and like they're not scary enough.

656
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 2: So we're gonna make does she captain more likable.

657
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,959
Speaker 3: She captain lost a baby, and then she has to

658
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 3: nurse basically like the alien from the Alien movies. You know,

659
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 3: like that would really make things scary.

660
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: Why didn't she try just stripping down in pouring grease

661
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: all over herself and grabbing a potato. People seem to

662
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: really like that.

663
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 2: See, I mean, first off, Sophie, who wouldn't like that?

664
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 3: That's that only works for men. Yeah, women who do

665
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 3: that go to jail. Sorry, is she captain?

666
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 2: She captain who does that would go right to jail.

667
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 2: So disgust is also a major part of her narrative,

668
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 2: and that is, like, you know, a major motivating factor

669
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 2: for conservatives, like the kind of people who are going

670
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 2: to be running a board of inquiry for the British Empire. Like,

671
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 2: you get a reaction out of people by making them disgusted.

672
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 2: So I don't think it's coincidental that she dials that

673
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 2: up to ten for the version she gives when she's

674
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 2: in trouble. Ultimately, the whole situation seems to have ended

675
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 2: well enough for Eliza. She made a sizable amount of

676
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 2: money off of her story and retires, probably with her

677
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 2: second husband, to New Zealand, where she lives out the

678
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 2: remainder of her days. So unfortunately she's one of yours.

679
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 3: Now, Yeah, so we're good here, we're good. Yeah.

680
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 2: No, there's a there's a genocide. We got to talk

681
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 2: about it. Yeah yeah. Yeah. So she disappears oll Eliza

682
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 2: as a public figure not long after this point, but

683
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,840
Speaker 2: her story continues to spread about as fast as a

684
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 2: story could spread in that period of time. In fact,

685
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,280
Speaker 2: variants of the Eliza Fraser story become a cottage industry

686
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 2: in their own right for like a century or so,

687
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 2: and I guess in a way, I'm continuing that tradition.

688
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 2: The story first enters North America in eighteen thirty seven

689
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 2: as a pamphlet titled Narrative of the Capture, Sufferings and

690
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 2: Miraculous Escape of Missus Eliza Fraser. Scholar Olaine Brown writes

691
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 2: that quote for American consumption, the illustrator dressed the Aboriginal

692
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,839
Speaker 2: people in loincloths, tunics, hose, and feather headdresses and gave

693
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 2: them tomahawks, daggers and bows and arrows. So we just

694
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,280
Speaker 2: they just like are depicted as like a racist drawing

695
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,720
Speaker 2: of like indigenous American people because like otherwise American audiences

696
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 2: won't get what the fuck they're looking at. Yeah, and

697
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 2: also i have no idea what these people look at.

698
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 2: I'm not doing any research before I draw this cover. Yeah.

699
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 2: The first attempt at a serious historic account of the

700
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 2: whole deal was John Curtis's The Shipwreck of the Sterling Castle,

701
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 2: which gets published in London in eighteen thirty eight, so

702
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 2: like a year after Eliza comes to London. Now Curtis

703
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,839
Speaker 2: is the closest thing to a journalist that existed in

704
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,280
Speaker 2: that era. And he had attended the inquiry in person

705
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,800
Speaker 2: and taken notes using the system of shorthand he'd invented himself.

706
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 2: So he is. He's there for like her court appearance,

707
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 2: and he takes notes on the story she tells. He

708
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 2: reports on the case for the London Times, and he

709
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 2: doesn't just listen to Eliza.

710
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 3: He does.

711
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 2: Scholar Olaine Brown describes what he does is quote a

712
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 2: little research of his own, so not a lot. It's

713
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:55,399
Speaker 2: good for him.

714
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:57,240
Speaker 3: Do your own research, bro.

715
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, the equivalent of like he glances at wicked for

716
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 2: like fucking Frasier Island is what it's called now. She

717
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,720
Speaker 2: describes his book as sympathetic to the survivors quote, Curtis

718
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 2: made the most of his opportunity to produce a new

719
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 2: Robinson Crusoe. He was dealing with a true story of

720
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 2: shipwreck and an exotic setting on an unexplored Pacific shore,

721
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 2: A cast of exceptional characters, the crew of a merchant's ship,

722
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 2: the captain's lady, cool savages, red coated soldiers, and a

723
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 2: heroic runaway convict. A story with unlimited possibilities for conflict, tragedy,

724
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 2: and pathos.

725
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:31,280
Speaker 3: Sounds like he's thinking like a real journalist.

726
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 2: Guys, right, right, right, right right, yeah, in that you

727
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 2: journalists at this point are basically structure. Yeah, we talk

728
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,839
Speaker 2: about again this method of oral storytelling that you know

729
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 2: is common on the people of Ghari in a lot

730
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 2: of ways better than journalism at the time. So that

731
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 2: quote comes from a paper that Elaine Brown wrote in

732
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three titled The Legend of Eliza Fraser, A

733
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 2: Survey of the Sources, which I would describe as useful

734
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 2: but also too sympathetic to our grant Brown. The fact that,

735
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 2: as we kind of discussed, a lot of misogyny is

736
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 2: rooted in stories by other survivors that like called Eliza

737
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 2: a liar and a she captain, but also the evidence

738
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 2: strongly suggests that she did lie a lot, or at

739
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 2: least let herself enter story be used by someone else

740
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 2: who lied. Now, there is still a potentially sympathetic version

741
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,919
Speaker 2: of Eliza in this, a physically and mentally traumatized woman who,

742
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 2: by several accounts, was not quite sane after her rescue

743
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 2: and was easily manipulated both by this new husband and

744
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 2: by a public hungry for stories of savage natives and

745
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 2: a man who promised her some kind of security in future. Right,

746
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 2: that is maybe what's going on here. We'll never really know.

747
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,479
Speaker 3: And at a time when yeah, like women are just like.

748
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 2: There's not a lot of options, treated like.

749
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 3: Shit, not a lot of options immediately like view a

750
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:52,240
Speaker 3: you know, she captain, Yeah, she captain.

751
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 2: And again she's just got a barrel of PTSD from

752
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:57,720
Speaker 2: this whole situation, and.

753
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 3: There's gotta be so many like sec assistant sinuations happening.

754
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 3: The fact that she survived living with these you know,

755
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 3: religious tribe for that long. Right, Yeah, it's just a

756
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 3: she captain. Sure, sure, sure, Sophia is really luxuriating in this,

757
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 3: and I feel like it's good like going to become

758
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 3: a new sound drop and then a T shirt and yeah, sure,

759
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 3: whole brand of yeah merchandising.

760
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're really going to squeeze more water from the rock.

761
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 2: That is the Eliza Fraser story. So her lies were

762
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,320
Speaker 2: just what got the ball rolling right, whether or not

763
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 2: you want to see her as like sympathetic and in

764
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 2: some way a victim herself, or is fundamentally malevolent. What

765
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 2: happens next is entirely out of her hand and is

766
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,839
Speaker 2: a malevolent process, Elaine Brown writes back in Sydney Press.

767
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 2: Accounts of the shipwreck were synthesized for a chapter in

768
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 2: Australia's first children's book, A Mother's Offering to Her Children,

769
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,240
Speaker 2: written by a lady Long resident in New South Wales,

770
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 2: imprinted by the Sydney Gazette in eighteen forty one. The

771
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,840
Speaker 2: text is in the form of a rather mannered conversation

772
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 2: between missus S and her children, Julius, Emma, Clara and Lucy.

773
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 2: The dates and events mentioned are tediously detailed, but some

774
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 2: idea of the tone of the work can be gained

775
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 2: from Claria's exclamation on hearing of the death of the

776
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 2: mate mister Brown. Such wanton barbarities fill one with horror

777
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 2: and indignation and a wish to exterminate the perpetrators of

778
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 2: such dreadful cruelties. So this is from a part of

779
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 2: the book where they talk about one of the shipwreck

780
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 2: survivors being murdered by the people of Gary Island and

781
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:33,399
Speaker 2: the response of one of her children to this is kill,

782
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 2: we should exterminate the people who did this, right, Oh,

783
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 2: we should exterminate the brutes.

784
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 3: Right.

785
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 2: Like that's that's literally a ligne in a children's book,

786
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 2: you know, kid stuff, when we're talking about the way

787
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 2: in which this story influences the genocide that's happening in

788
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 2: this period. Literally, like the first major publication in Australia

789
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:53,919
Speaker 2: to use this story is like, yeah, we should murder

790
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 2: the people who did this, all of them, right, So

791
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 2: to continue with Brown's writing, thus emerged the third problem

792
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 2: historians have faced in dealing with the fates of the

793
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:07,799
Speaker 2: Sterling Castle survivors. The mutually hostile attitudes subsequently assumed by

794
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 2: both the White Bay Aboriginal people and the Europeans who

795
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 2: learned of their supposed wanton barbarities through the worldwide publicity

796
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 2: given to Eliza Fraser's story. An undercurrent of what poet

797
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,359
Speaker 2: Judith Wright calls the fear as Old as Kane runs

798
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 2: through most European accounts. So you know it's bad. This

799
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 2: is all going to be bad. Now, before we move on,

800
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 2: I should note a coda to the Fraser story, which

801
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 2: is that well, the early stories that went viral were

802
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 2: very much focused on her as a heroic victim. The

803
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,919
Speaker 2: most popular early American account was an article for Knickerbocker

804
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 2: magazine by Henry Yolden, who is the crewman who survived

805
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 2: and hated Eliza and maybe stole everybody's water. He is

806
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 2: the guy who goes viral in the US for a

807
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 2: version of this story, and he describes her as a vixen.

808
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 2: So again, maybe not himself the best source God.

809
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 3: Also, everybody's just so horny back then.

810
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 2: Oh, you're just like they cloak it. Yeah, the only

811
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:03,800
Speaker 2: fans is very primitive at that point.

812
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 3: On the kid book front, I would just on Daily's Like, guys,

813
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 3: we were just talking about this book written by Mike

814
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 3: Huckabee called Kid's Guide to President Trump.

815
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 2: That yeah, I don't think kids need that, okay.

816
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, And one of the things one of the quotes

817
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 3: was when people come to take This is him describing

818
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 3: illegal immigration is when people come to take money and

819
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:30,240
Speaker 3: jobs without paying taxes, sneak in to sell drugs, commit

820
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 3: other crimes, and in worst case commit acts of terrorism.

821
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 3: So you know, as wild as continuing y.

822
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 1: Is any of the current US ambassador Israel.

823
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,399
Speaker 3: And this is how one of the ways that it's

824
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 3: actually like a weirdly popular way to uh kiss up

825
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 3: to Trump is making a children's book about him, because

826
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 3: I also I think it he likes the idea of

827
00:41:56,400 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 3: being indoctrinating children, and it's also at his reading level,

828
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 3: so he's like hell yeah, and.

829
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,839
Speaker 2: Again this book, this is the first like children's book

830
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 2: published in Australia, comes out in eighteen forty one. A

831
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 2: lot of the genocide we're talking about is like in

832
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 2: the seventies and eighteen seventies, eighties, nineties, So it's going

833
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 2: to be perpetrated and orchestrated by men who would have

834
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 2: grown up as the generation.

835
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 3: That was like, yeah, this was their green eggs and ham.

836
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 2: Obviously that's not the only thing, right, It's not just

837
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 2: this children's book makes them all do a genocide. But

838
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 2: it's not like a non factor.

839
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, background noise for their growing up.

840
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. So long after that account spreads in the US,

841
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 2: in the eighteen eighties, another account is published claiming that

842
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:41,280
Speaker 2: an entirely different convict, a guy named Bracewell, had actually

843
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:44,919
Speaker 2: rescued Eliza, and Bracewell is the source of this. There's

844
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 2: no evidence of this. There are some claims that maybe

845
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 2: he's sexually assaulted Eliza. That's also not based on anything,

846
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 2: and it's mainly just I only bring this up to

847
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 2: note that, like fucking forty years later, people are coming

848
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 2: with new versions of this story based on very evidence

849
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 2: because it still sells. There's a book written about Bracewall's

850
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 2: claims right by a guy named Russell in eighteen eighty eight,

851
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,760
Speaker 2: because there's still money in this shit, right.

852
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,760
Speaker 3: Like the jfk assassination. It's like, yes, people will keep

853
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 3: telling and retelling the stories. Yes, and also everyone's so horny. Yeah. Oh,

854
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 3: then there's this guy Bracewell who comes in and he's like.

855
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 2: It's not really worth getting into. He may have had

856
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,879
Speaker 2: some involvement, but like it's not really worth talking about.

857
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:30,919
Speaker 2: What is worth noting is that Russell, the guy who

858
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 2: writes this book about Bracewall's Claims in eighteen eighty eight

859
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:37,319
Speaker 2: describes how in the eighteen eighties, decades after Eliza left

860
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 2: for New Zealand, there are side shows on the London

861
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 2: streets featuring an Eliza impersonator recounting her story. Right, so

862
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 2: like someone pretending to be her telling her story.

863
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,399
Speaker 1: I think she captain what's happening here?

864
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's awesome. Quote from Russell's book. Walking from

865
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,399
Speaker 2: Hyde Park down Oxford Street, I observed a man who

866
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,839
Speaker 2: was carrying over his shoulder one of those show advertisements.

867
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 2: A large wooden square for nailed at the to the

868
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:03,399
Speaker 2: end of a long pole. On the calico with which

869
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 2: it was covered was a bright colored daub which represented

870
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 2: savages with bows and arrows, some dead bodies of white

871
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 2: men and women which other savages were cutting up on

872
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 2: the ground, and another squad was holding on spits to

873
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:15,880
Speaker 2: a large fire. It was amusing enough to stop me

874
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 2: in my walk, horrible enough to impress the writing beneath

875
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 2: this picture on my mind. Sterling Castle wrecked on the

876
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 2: coast of New Holland Botany Bay, all killed and eaten

877
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 2: by savages. Only a survivor, a woman to be seen.

878
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 2: Sixpence admission and there's a lot there, right, Both that

879
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 2: at this point the story has turned into all of

880
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 2: these people were eaten by these savages, right, which like

881
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 2: just is not a part it is not even like

882
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 2: a part of the original versions of this story, right,

883
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,280
Speaker 2: it's just something people have admitted to make it more racist.

884
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 2: And also you can see the old lady if you're

885
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 2: just pay she'll talk to you about what happened, which

886
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 2: is definitely not Eliza. We know that she is in

887
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 2: So it's got to be assuming he didn't just make

888
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 2: this up. I don't think he would. This has to

889
00:44:57,560 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 2: be like a show where someone's like, we'll just get

890
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 2: some old late to pretend to be Eliza make some

891
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:02,240
Speaker 2: fucking money.

892
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 3: Which was like a popular thing back in the day

893
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 3: all the time, Yeah, touring people who are like I

894
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,280
Speaker 3: was George Washington's.

895
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 2: You know neu Yeah yeah whatever.

896
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 3: Yeah. Also, like this the idea of like a you know,

897
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 3: white woman who is under attack from you.

898
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,720
Speaker 2: Know, uh, like only a survivor of this cannibal holocaust.

899
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, that's that's also like the birth of a nation,

900
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 3: and like that's a powerful like that that will start

901
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 3: wars across the history of you know, white supremacy and

902
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:37,799
Speaker 3: racism in uh you know the history of the world.

903
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 2: Your dash gum tutin, so we know that. In the

904
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:43,800
Speaker 2: US and the UK there were also stage productions of

905
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 2: the story of the Sharling Sterling shipwrecket gets turned into

906
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 2: a play. There's like versions of this play up into

907
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 2: the mid twentieth century, and of a licensed castivity with

908
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 2: savages right, And the verbiage that Russell uses here is

909
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 2: in keeping with like Leaflet's advertizing popular republications of the

910
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 2: story from around the same time, like this Eliza Fraser

911
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 2: who existed seven days without food or water, the dreadful

912
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 2: sufferings of miss Fraser, who with her husband and the

913
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 2: survivors of the ill fated crew are captured by the

914
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 2: savages of New Holland and by them stripped entirely naked

915
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:21,800
Speaker 2: and driven into the bush. They're dreadful slavery, cruel, toiled

916
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 2: and excruciating tortures inflicted on them. A horrid death of

917
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,840
Speaker 2: mister Brown it was roasted alive over a slow fire

918
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 2: kindled beneath his feet. Meeting of mister and Missus Fraser,

919
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 2: and the inhuman murder of Captain Fraser in the presence

920
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 2: of his wife.

921
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 3: It's like meeting of mister and miss so we get

922
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:40,320
Speaker 3: to see the meet cute and his uh.

923
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I guess there's no maybe they start with

924
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 2: I don't knowl But this is how the story has

925
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 2: been summarized now right. It's just completely separate from what

926
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 2: we know of the reality.

927
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 3: And they're bringing in like the iconography that we've all

928
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 3: seen in like old like fifties and sixties movies where

929
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:01,799
Speaker 3: somebody is captured by camp and like they're tied to

930
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 3: a post and there's a fire around them that you know,

931
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 3: like all of those images are like, oh yeah, that's

932
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 3: the familiar cannibal imagery.

933
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the reality is like, yeah, you've got someone

934
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 2: who's like starving and frustrated and maybe like hit, someone

935
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 2: who's not able to who's like just can't learn a

936
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 2: simple task, Like that's not ideal. But it's turned into

937
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 2: like they were tortured and cooked over fires, yes, yeah,

938
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 2: burnt alive. Yeah. So what really matters here is that

939
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 2: the story became a huge and prominent part of the

940
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 2: white Australian and European conception of the Aboriginal peoples of Australia.

941
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 2: This would contribute to some pretty disastrous things in the

942
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 2: coming decades. There's no one massacre or atrocity you can

943
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 2: point to and say, well, they did this because of

944
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 2: what Eliza said. But I think I've established how popular

945
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:49,279
Speaker 2: this account was and thus influential. A supplement put out

946
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:52,840
Speaker 2: by the Fraser Island Defenders Association notes that Fraser Island

947
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 2: Aboriginal people gained international notoriety through the stories of Eliza Fraser,

948
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,439
Speaker 2: and one of Eliza Fraser's legacies was that there would

949
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 2: be many men massacres of the very people who had

950
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 2: helped her. In eighteen forty two, white Australians established a

951
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 2: head station called Tiaro near Moreton Bay, which is in

952
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 2: the bay that's very close to the island. This was

953
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 2: attacked so vigorously by local tribes that the forces manning

954
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 2: it were withdrawn and the station abandoned mere months later.

955
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 2: The Commissioner of Crown Lands from Moreton Bay noted in

956
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 2: eighteen forty three that twelve white people had fallen as

957
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,359
Speaker 2: sacrifice to the Aboriginal peoples of the area. And he's

958
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 2: not saying they were sacrificed by those people, saying that

959
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 2: those people were a sacrifice for the cause of colonialism right.

960
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 2: It's also he notes twelve white people died. He did

961
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,399
Speaker 2: not bother to recount how many indigenous inhabitants were killed

962
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 2: by white settlers in the same time period.

963
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 3: Not important.

964
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:44,719
Speaker 2: Rome No and Peter Laura's History of Fraser Island says

965
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:46,799
Speaker 2: that this was the norm, right, They just didn't talk

966
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:50,800
Speaker 2: about that quote. So successful were what was aboriginal resistance

967
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:53,719
Speaker 2: activities against isolated white settlers in this period that those

968
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 2: moving into the Mary River area by the late eighteen

969
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 2: forties were taking up the country abandoned two even three

970
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,760
Speaker 2: times before. The pattern of warfare escalating upon this pastoral

971
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 2: frontier by the late forties is well exemplified by developments

972
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 2: at Richard Jones's Bowie Station on the Merry River. In

973
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 2: late November eighteen forty eight. Jones experienced two successive raids

974
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:14,959
Speaker 2: upon his flocks, and a large number were carried off,

975
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 2: not for many reasons of hunger, but as a guerrilla

976
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,399
Speaker 2: resistance technique, or as the Moreton Bay Courier saw fit

977
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 2: determin it in the mere wantonness of patriotism. Hollanders. A

978
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 2: reprisal party of ten whites led by station manager mister

979
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 2: Clements and assisted by a collaborative black guide, then attacked

980
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 2: the Aboriginal camp, firing a volley into it and dispersing them.

981
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,479
Speaker 2: And again there's no mention made of how many people

982
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 2: were killed in this barrage of gunfire. Right, but this

983
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 2: is kind of the nature of the conflict for a while.

984
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 2: There's both like murders when you've got these these white

985
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 2: folks at stations, but also, oh, they've got like a

986
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 2: couple thousand sheep here and there's not enough of them

987
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 2: to guard them. Will either kill or capture take the

988
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 2: sheep for ourselves, and that will render this unprofitable for them,

989
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 2: because we've started to gain an understanding of how they're

990
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:03,360
Speaker 2: xiety works and that if we can make this costly enough,

991
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 2: they won't be able to afford to keep taking our shit, right.

992
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 3: And that's the one thing us whites cannot abide is

993
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:13,320
Speaker 3: taking our shit. Yeah, yes, taking our shit, that's our property.

994
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's well, And that is very much like however,

995
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 2: things get dressed up today and you can find some

996
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 2: articles made by conservative white Australians today about like, oh,

997
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 2: you know, there really was a lot of you know,

998
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 2: horrible violence done by these people to these settlers, and

999
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,240
Speaker 2: you know these settlers were just trying to make a living.

1000
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 2: Evidence at the time from the way these settlers was

1001
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 2: writing paints a very ugly picture. The Courier, which was

1002
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:42,760
Speaker 2: a local paper, wrote published an editorial during this period arguing,

1003
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 2: we hold this country by the right of conquest, and

1004
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 2: if that right gives us a just claim to its

1005
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 2: continued possession, we must be empowered to enforce our claim

1006
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 2: by the strong arm when necessary. The Blacks have just

1007
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:57,239
Speaker 2: the same claim to the restoration of their decayed nationality

1008
00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 2: as would the principality of Whales have if it rose

1009
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 2: in open rebellion against the crown. One law must apply

1010
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 2: to all conquered nations so far as the rights of

1011
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 2: the conqueror, order and rule must be maintained, And if

1012
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 2: this cannot be done by kindness and indulgence, it must

1013
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 2: then be affected by the iron rod.

1014
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:17,799
Speaker 3: Sound like cool people. Feel it's so nice. They sound

1015
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:20,839
Speaker 3: like nice people who shell would be easy to get

1016
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:21,319
Speaker 3: along with.

1017
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ, I don't see why anyone's fighting back against them.

1018
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 3: Why are they being so mean to us?

1019
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:30,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, they don't want us to just take their stuff.

1020
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:33,879
Speaker 2: Over the next several years, until eighteen fifty, different groups

1021
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 2: of Aboriginal warriors continued. This is and this is another

1022
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 2: thing that's worth emphasizing. This is a very successful insurgent campaign.

1023
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 2: They are planning, They're like, they're thinking this through, and

1024
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:47,399
Speaker 2: they're they're winning for a while. They take thousands of sheep,

1025
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 2: they destroy a lot of infrastructure, and they kill a

1026
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 2: number of settlers. And the effect of all this is

1027
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 2: to stretch the already insufficient local white labor supply and

1028
00:51:56,080 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 2: renders settling in the area financially unviable. Just describes this

1029
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 2: incredibly successful, vigorous defense as partly a response to the

1030
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 2: absolute shattering of the worldview many of these peoples had

1031
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:08,920
Speaker 2: held for since time immemorial.

1032
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:09,840
Speaker 3: Quote.

1033
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:13,319
Speaker 2: The dawning realization that whites were not explicable spirits but

1034
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 2: unknown usurpers whose guns and horses induced terror and whose

1035
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 2: imposed presence demanded utter forfeiture of territory must have emerged

1036
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 2: as a dreadful, almost inexpressible revelation. The traditional verities of

1037
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:28,920
Speaker 2: a complex, orderly pattern of existence were rudely shaken, spiritual

1038
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:32,880
Speaker 2: values were partially falsified, and the formerly authoritative explanations of

1039
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 2: tribal elders were increasingly undermined a people who had totally

1040
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 2: believed in a certain right mode of behavior for every person.

1041
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:42,800
Speaker 2: The sacrisanct nature of individual family and tribal totems, and

1042
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:46,760
Speaker 2: all the rules of residency, hospitality, and reciprocity were rapidly

1043
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 2: confronted by incomers with new unstated rules and behavioral modes,

1044
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 2: who were no respectors of totems or territorial boundaries, and

1045
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 2: who were ready to impose an exclusive hegemony by force

1046
00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:01,319
Speaker 2: of arms. Tribal society here faced the most critical impasse conceivable,

1047
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 2: for to lose land was not simply to lose livelihood,

1048
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 2: but to abandon the meaning of life itself. The sudden

1049
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:11,319
Speaker 2: onset of an unprecedented invasion situation demanded from the indigenous.

1050
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 2: Therefore new patterns of adaptation and resistance and encourage the

1051
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 2: emergence of new leaders capable of meeting the onslaught and again.

1052
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:22,520
Speaker 2: So this is like a culture that is changing and adapting,

1053
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 2: And one of the things they're doing is like, Okay,

1054
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:26,839
Speaker 2: the people who told us these white folks were one

1055
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:29,400
Speaker 2: thing were wrong. We probably shouldn't listen to them about

1056
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 2: how to handle this situation. We need like a new

1057
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:36,759
Speaker 2: plan because what we were doing doesn't work now. Ultimately,

1058
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:39,840
Speaker 2: after several years of this, Australian authorities call the Native

1059
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 2: Police into the situation, which are like Aboriginal people who

1060
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 2: are taken in and trained and armed as police and

1061
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:50,719
Speaker 2: led by white officers. Through the early eighteen fifties, there

1062
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 2: were a number of bloody clashes between tribesmen and these

1063
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 2: colonial forces that killed enough warriors to force their retreat

1064
00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:00,560
Speaker 2: to Fraser Island. Right. They basically use it as a

1065
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 2: natural fortress, that's how Lwer describes this, so that they

1066
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:08,319
Speaker 2: can avoid like European reprisal raids. And you know, this

1067
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 2: seems to be something that goes on for several years

1068
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 2: from the end of the eighteen forties up to the

1069
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:14,920
Speaker 2: beginning of the eighteen fifties, and there's a lot of

1070
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:17,840
Speaker 2: talk with like officers of the Native Force and local

1071
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:21,759
Speaker 2: authorities that like, we have to actually land people on

1072
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 2: the island to quote finally put a stop to collisions

1073
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:28,879
Speaker 2: between blacks and whites. And there's an interesting line here

1074
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:31,759
Speaker 2: in Lawer's writing. Although the Native Police acted as a

1075
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:35,240
Speaker 2: paramilitary body engaged in border warfare while in the field,

1076
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:37,880
Speaker 2: no legal recognition of this role could be given for

1077
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 2: officially the territory of others was not being conquered. It

1078
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 2: was merely seen as Crown land being settled. Resisting natives

1079
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:48,239
Speaker 2: were therefore held to be British subjects behaving criminally, rather

1080
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:50,719
Speaker 2: than being accorded status as the legitimate force of a

1081
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 2: warring people opposing the invasion of their lands. Thus, in

1082
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 2: order to invade Fraser Island, the required legal procedure was

1083
00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:02,759
Speaker 2: that the execution of warrants. Basically, well, we can't like

1084
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:05,719
Speaker 2: this island even though none of us, no white people live,

1085
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:07,239
Speaker 2: there is crown land.

1086
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:09,799
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, just land on it and be like I

1087
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:14,360
Speaker 3: hereby declare that this is yeah your trustpassing, Yeah.

1088
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 2: You're trustpassing. And we have a warrant, right, we have

1089
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:18,720
Speaker 2: to write out a warrant before. So they go around

1090
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:21,120
Speaker 2: to locals to get like descriptions of some of the

1091
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 2: men who had been leading raids, and some of them

1092
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:26,279
Speaker 2: are just known by like descriptive names that settlers give them.

1093
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 2: But they actually have a bunch of warrants in hand

1094
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:33,279
Speaker 2: for thirty five Aboriginal men for murder and felony of settlers, right,

1095
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:36,480
Speaker 2: and that's when they invade Fraser Island. This force of

1096
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 2: Native police, it's with all of these warrants. So they

1097
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:43,640
Speaker 2: commence an assault on August fourth, eighteen fifty one. Police

1098
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 2: engage and slaughter locals and withdraw several times, but raids

1099
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 2: on mainland sediments continue. So in Christmas Eve of eighteen

1100
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:53,880
Speaker 2: fifty one, the Native police engaged in a final clearing

1101
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:56,280
Speaker 2: of the island. A mix of two dozen Native police

1102
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:59,880
Speaker 2: under several white officers and an undisclosed number of random

1103
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:03,239
Speaker 2: armed white volunteers quote, all armed and sworn in as

1104
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 2: special constables, run rampant across the island, killing whoever they can.

1105
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 2: So like these police get together with a bunch of

1106
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:16,160
Speaker 2: just like local militia, basically like angry white farmers, and

1107
00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:19,319
Speaker 2: they do an ethnic cleansing on Fraser Island, right on

1108
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:23,560
Speaker 2: Angari Island, right they're calling it Fraser Island. And that's

1109
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 2: how like a lot of these people get like forced off.

1110
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 2: That's kind of it's not entirely the end of habitation

1111
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:32,319
Speaker 2: of the island in this period of time, but it

1112
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 2: is sort of the beginning of the end. In official reports,

1113
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 2: this is always described as a police action. And again

1114
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:42,000
Speaker 2: you can still find conservatives saying like, well, they were

1115
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:45,400
Speaker 2: just trying to arrest people who had committed crimes, and

1116
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:49,200
Speaker 2: there were several men taken into custody and apparently tried,

1117
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:52,600
Speaker 2: although there's no evidence that any sort of judicial procedure

1118
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:54,840
Speaker 2: was followed. They were just like, yeah, we tried and

1119
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 2: convicted them, you know, yeah, maybe they just shot them

1120
00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:01,600
Speaker 2: where they stood and lied about that. Later. One local

1121
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:03,920
Speaker 2: reporter at the time wrote, rumors are afloat that the

1122
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:06,400
Speaker 2: natives were driven into the sea and kept there as

1123
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 2: long as daylight or life lasted. So basically, we drove

1124
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:12,879
Speaker 2: these people into some say the sea, some say it's

1125
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 2: the Susan River, and waited until they drowned. Like that's

1126
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 2: how this massacre finishes, and somewhere between fifty and one hundred.

1127
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 2: But Schalla people are killed that way right.

1128
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 3: Now.

1129
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:25,840
Speaker 2: Again, you can find a lot of argument. I found

1130
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 2: a whole book by this Australian conservative commentator arguing that

1131
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:33,720
Speaker 2: this massacre never happened. I should note that the publisher

1132
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 2: of that book, Connor Court Publishing, also publishes works of

1133
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 2: climate change denial and books by famous right wing shitheads

1134
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:42,400
Speaker 2: like Cardinal George Pell, who has been accused of covering

1135
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:45,000
Speaker 2: up and ignoring child's sexual abuse in the nineteen seventies,

1136
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 2: so maybe I don't consider that the best source in

1137
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 2: the world. Fiona Foley, who I quoted earlier and Isobachila

1138
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:56,440
Speaker 2: woman artist and writer, heard stories of the massacre from

1139
00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:59,360
Speaker 2: her relatives growing up as a child, and she created

1140
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 2: a sculpture based on these stories titled Annihilation of the Blacks,

1141
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:05,680
Speaker 2: which became one of the National Museum of Australia's first

1142
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:11,440
Speaker 2: major acquisitions by an urban Aboriginal artist, Aboriginal person artist.

1143
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 2: And this is Soviey's going to show you this work,

1144
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 2: Annihilation of the Blacks by Fiona Foley, who we quoted

1145
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 2: from earlier. It's a pretty striking.

1146
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:23,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Do you want to describe it, Robert.

1147
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I mean, you've got two like what look

1148
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 2: like trees basically, I mean, I think they're made from

1149
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 2: like branches, but there's supposed to be trees with like

1150
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 2: a branch lying in between them. They're sort of like

1151
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 2: y shaped at the top and there's a branch in

1152
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 2: between them and strung up on the branch are let

1153
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 2: me count here, nine like black human bodies like strung

1154
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:48,560
Speaker 2: up and hung while a single white person stands below

1155
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:52,640
Speaker 2: with a pretty deep shadow cast like looking over them.

1156
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 2: So ultimately, the Aboriginal peoples of Fraser Island were forced

1157
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 2: out of their homes for generations. The displacement was justified

1158
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 2: by the whites, not only by the violence of the

1159
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 2: years of raids, but by the legacy of Eliza Fraser's account.

1160
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:09,440
Speaker 2: In your twenty sixteen book Finding Eliza, Larissa Barren writes

1161
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:12,320
Speaker 2: that stories like Eliza's provided fuel for British fear of

1162
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 2: cohabitation with Native peoples and quote once these anxieties found

1163
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:19,600
Speaker 2: expression and form and narratives such as Eliza's, they justified

1164
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:23,480
Speaker 2: the mechanisms for surveillance of Aboriginal people through policing practices,

1165
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 2: legal control, and government policy. And in her own article,

1166
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:31,280
Speaker 2: Folly adds the unspoken fear in Eliza's case was that

1167
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:34,200
Speaker 2: this white woman could be sexually violated by Aboriginal men

1168
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 2: if not rescued. Racialized anxieties have formulated many patterns of

1169
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:41,680
Speaker 2: structured behaviors used to subjugate Aboriginal men, women, and children

1170
00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:47,960
Speaker 2: in Australia. And you know, yeah, it's fucked up, and

1171
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:50,240
Speaker 2: it's made all the more frustrating by the fact that

1172
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 2: while this deplaced, displacement and slaughter was at its height

1173
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 2: near the end of the eighteen hundreds, clear evidence arose.

1174
00:59:57,240 --> 00:59:59,160
Speaker 2: And this is while we're still in the eighteen hundreds

1175
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:01,440
Speaker 2: that the whole phrase your story had been a lie.

1176
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:05,640
Speaker 2: In eighteen seventy four, a colonial official named Archibald Meston

1177
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 2: spoke to several elderly men at Noosa and Fraser Island

1178
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:11,920
Speaker 2: who had been alive when Eliza and other members of

1179
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:14,200
Speaker 2: her crew were sheltered. These are members of the Bachola

1180
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 2: who had known her then, right, And so this colonial

1181
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:21,880
Speaker 2: officer official like, who's you know, probably may himself have

1182
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:23,440
Speaker 2: kind of grown up or as a young person at

1183
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:25,480
Speaker 2: least new young people who were raised on these stories,

1184
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:27,080
Speaker 2: as like, I'm gonna see if I can talk to

1185
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 2: anyone else who was there, right. And here's how lower

1186
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:34,760
Speaker 2: summarizes that. Concerning Eliza Fraser, Meston wrote, she must have

1187
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 2: either had a serious quarrel with truth or else her

1188
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 2: head was badly affected by her experiences. Certainly, she gave

1189
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:43,920
Speaker 2: a wildly improbable tale in Brisbane, accusing the Blacks of

1190
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 2: deeds quite foreign to their known character and quite unknown

1191
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:50,840
Speaker 2: before since an Aboriginal annals Bracewell and Durham Boy both

1192
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 2: declared that miss Fraser's tales in Brisbane, Sydney and London

1193
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:56,960
Speaker 2: were evolved from her own imagination. The old men in

1194
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:59,400
Speaker 2: the seventies told Meston a story very different from that

1195
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 2: of the Lady, the effect that the Europeans were received

1196
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:04,000
Speaker 2: in a friendly manner and passed on in canoes to

1197
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:06,120
Speaker 2: the mainland. It didn't skip point to be forwarded to

1198
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 2: the white people at the Brisbane convict settlement, and we

1199
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:10,840
Speaker 2: know they were sent to the mainland. That version of

1200
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:12,479
Speaker 2: the story that like, yeah, we sent them there because

1201
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:15,440
Speaker 2: we were trying to get them back home, is totally

1202
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 2: consistent with the objective evidence that we have, and this

1203
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 2: also comports orally with the story of the Batchula themselves.

1204
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:25,200
Speaker 2: I found an article in the Courier Mail which interviewed

1205
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 2: Auntie Francis Gala, who's an elder of the tribe, who says,

1206
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:32,080
Speaker 2: of Fraser's story, it isn't true for two very sound reasons,

1207
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:35,240
Speaker 2: and never came down our oral storyline, whereas everything else

1208
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:37,440
Speaker 2: of significance that happened in the past few hundred years

1209
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:39,960
Speaker 2: did come down, and there's no dance about it. If

1210
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:42,200
Speaker 2: James Fraser had been murdered, we would still know that

1211
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:44,960
Speaker 2: dance today, Like we gotta fucking made a dance about

1212
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:47,560
Speaker 2: killing that guy if we'd done it right, Like we

1213
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 2: have that for other people, you know, And it's a

1214
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 2: good point, Like there's all you know.

1215
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, we don't skimp on. Yeah, that's like an important

1216
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 3: we want to dance about this, right, we wanted to.

1217
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:02,720
Speaker 3: It would have been fucking great, but we didn't.

1218
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:06,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, And now I should also note here that although

1219
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:08,480
Speaker 2: Meston is kind of a hero in this part of

1220
01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:11,120
Speaker 2: the story where he's helping to break this myth, or

1221
01:02:11,120 --> 01:02:14,040
Speaker 2: at least attempting to, he's also not what you would

1222
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 2: call a kind man to the Aboriginal people of Queensland,

1223
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:21,400
Speaker 2: even though his official title was Southern Protector of the Aboriginals.

1224
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:24,440
Speaker 2: It was Meston who carried out an experimental attempt to

1225
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:28,440
Speaker 2: stamp out opium use among the population of Aboriginal people,

1226
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:31,480
Speaker 2: which is generally described by their descendants today as an

1227
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:34,200
Speaker 2: excuse to govern and control the lives of their ancestors.

1228
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:38,480
Speaker 2: Per Foley quote, the Opium Act contained thirty three clauses

1229
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:41,840
Speaker 2: governing Aboriginal lives, with its tentacles reaching into my traditional

1230
01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 2: country and the lives of fifty one Bachalla people living

1231
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:47,120
Speaker 2: in Maryborough who are forcibly removed to the mission on

1232
01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:51,640
Speaker 2: Ghari under Archibald Meston's direction, and ultimately the peoples who

1233
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:54,919
Speaker 2: had inhabited Ghari for many thousands of years were dispossessed

1234
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:58,040
Speaker 2: of their home right. They eventually get kicked entirely off

1235
01:02:58,040 --> 01:02:59,760
Speaker 2: of the island, and this is kind of part of

1236
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:04,320
Speaker 2: that process, and the whole situation was not remedied for them.

1237
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:06,120
Speaker 2: This happens at the end of the eighteen hundreds and

1238
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 2: there don't start to be remedies to this until nineteen

1239
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:12,240
Speaker 2: ninety three when the Native Title Act is passed in

1240
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:16,840
Speaker 2: Australia and actually final. Fole's great aunt is the first

1241
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:20,280
Speaker 2: Bachola person to lodge a title claim on Gari Island,

1242
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 2: which itself is officially renamed in twenty twenty three, so

1243
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:27,360
Speaker 2: it is known legally as Fraser Island until twenty twenty

1244
01:03:27,360 --> 01:03:30,240
Speaker 2: three when it is renamed Ghuri, which is what it

1245
01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:36,520
Speaker 2: was originally called. So that just happened, that's crazy. Twenty

1246
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:39,360
Speaker 2: twenty three, they finally get their name back.

1247
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:43,040
Speaker 3: The wheels of history turn very slowly when it comes

1248
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:46,400
Speaker 3: to naming things, but we go. We go pretty fast

1249
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:49,640
Speaker 3: and check the check things out later, fact check later.

1250
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:52,200
Speaker 3: When it comes to killing people, we're pretty quick on

1251
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:52,760
Speaker 3: that front.

1252
01:03:53,040 --> 01:03:57,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, great, Well that's the story you got any

1253
01:03:57,560 --> 01:03:58,640
Speaker 2: blog ablest club.

1254
01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:03,640
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know. That does sound shockingly familiar

1255
01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:07,880
Speaker 3: with like people being driven off again. There's just like

1256
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:12,400
Speaker 3: all sorts of these things from history where that seem

1257
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:16,440
Speaker 3: somewhat familiar if you pay attention to the news, which

1258
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:19,760
Speaker 3: is something that we cover over on the dailies like

1259
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:24,640
Speaker 3: me and my co host Myles Gray, which you can

1260
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 3: go check out anywhere fine podcasts are given away for free.

1261
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:31,960
Speaker 3: You can find me on Twitter at jack Underscore Obrian

1262
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:34,160
Speaker 3: and on Blue Sky at jack ob and then the

1263
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:34,920
Speaker 3: number one.

1264
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:39,440
Speaker 2: Jackie oh, which is not what we call you.

1265
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:41,760
Speaker 3: No, not at all. My cousins should be a Jackie.

1266
01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:49,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, although, like JACQUELINEO Nassas, you also were present when

1267
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:50,840
Speaker 2: JFK was assassinated and.

1268
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:53,080
Speaker 3: Not a lot of people know that, and because I

1269
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:53,760
Speaker 3: don't want them to.

1270
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:56,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, because.

1271
01:04:57,600 --> 01:04:58,400
Speaker 3: Is still not up.

1272
01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:01,720
Speaker 2: Well that too, Yes, the vampire thing, yes.

1273
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:03,720
Speaker 1: Yes, that is the first thing you told me.

1274
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:06,440
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, I know it's a you think that

1275
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:13,360
Speaker 3: would be Oh, nice to meet you. You think i'd

1276
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:17,520
Speaker 3: be more discreet, and yet I just Usually when I

1277
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:20,560
Speaker 3: meet somebody, I brag about having seen the life train

1278
01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:24,280
Speaker 3: from Kennedy's eyes. Take up my clothes, cover myself in Greece,

1279
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 3: grab a tater and sea bread, and run out the

1280
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:29,200
Speaker 3: door and listen.

1281
01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:33,160
Speaker 2: Folks you listening at home, don't keep listening to the news.

1282
01:05:33,160 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 2: The podcast is over. Come back and listen next week.

1283
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:38,120
Speaker 2: But take some time off the internet, do a little

1284
01:05:38,120 --> 01:05:42,360
Speaker 2: digital detox. Strip naked yourself in grease, grab the potato

1285
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:45,400
Speaker 2: and some bread, and run off into the woods. You know,

1286
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:48,760
Speaker 2: see what happens to you. It'll probably be fine.

1287
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:50,960
Speaker 3: I feel like that is better than like most of

1288
01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:52,600
Speaker 3: the advice that you get.

1289
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:56,400
Speaker 2: That is, it's also healthier than being on social media.

1290
01:05:56,520 --> 01:05:59,640
Speaker 2: Sometimes naked in the woods, covered in Greece good shit.

1291
01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:04,000
Speaker 1: Or just peta dog if they want you to, yeah.

1292
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:07,840
Speaker 2: Or peta dog, I don't know. Naked, grease, potato, petta dog, both.

1293
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:09,200
Speaker 1: Good things if they want you to.

1294
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:13,040
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, if they want you to. But strip, nake

1295
01:06:13,080 --> 01:06:15,800
Speaker 2: and cover yourself in grease, whether or not anyone wants

1296
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:18,240
Speaker 2: you to, Yes, you do that, no matter what. Do

1297
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:20,920
Speaker 2: not listen to anyone who says, don't get naked and

1298
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:23,760
Speaker 2: covered in grease, all right, great advice.

1299
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:29,520
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1300
01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:33,160
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia

1301
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:36,520
Speaker 1: dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1302
01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:39,760
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the

1303
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:43,840
Speaker 1: Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes every Wednesday

1304
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:47,600
Speaker 1: and Friday. Subscribe to our channel YouTube dot com slash

1305
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:49,640
Speaker 1: at Behind the Bastards