Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast that
Speaker 1: talks with some of the brightest minds working in media today.
Speaker 1: I'm Andrew Wallenstein. St X Entertainment is best known as
Speaker 1: the company behind recent movies like The Upside and Ugly Dolls,
Speaker 1: but theaters aren't the only place for their films. They've
Speaker 1: also got a division making them for virtual reality. We'll
Speaker 1: talk about the future of entertainment in VR with Rick
Speaker 1: Ray and Andy Vick of s t X Surreal, but
Speaker 1: that's not all. Stick around till the end of this
Speaker 1: podcast for a mystery bonus conversation about VR entertainment you
Speaker 1: won't want to miss. Thanks for coming in. I think
Speaker 1: we should start with describing what The Limit is because
Speaker 1: it's a virtual reality production, but not quite similar to
Speaker 1: a lot of what I've seen out there. The Limit
Speaker 1: is a virtual reality movie. That's how we talk about it.
Speaker 1: It is a cinematic experience. It is a lean back experience.
Speaker 1: A lot of people when they think of VR, they
Speaker 1: think of gaming, and there are certainly a lot of
Speaker 1: fantastic games in VR. Um As the VR division within
Speaker 1: a larger media company that's focused on creating premium scripted
Speaker 1: and unscripted entertainment are slant on. This is very much
Speaker 1: on the live action side, UM, and so our focus
Speaker 1: is on cinematic content in VR. Got it, And you've
Speaker 1: got quite a cast in this one. I mean, describe
Speaker 1: the story and kind of what's different in terms of
Speaker 1: the set up for this kind of production. Well, I
Speaker 1: think it's you know, really, what we're doing is we're
Speaker 1: putting people inside of an action movie. We're taking advantage
Speaker 1: of the field of view and the technology and handing
Speaker 1: those tools over to great filmmakers. And in this case,
Speaker 1: Robert Rodriguez joined UM and a Aventually it's a tale
Speaker 1: about a cooperative UM cyborg of course, right, because that's
Speaker 1: what you do when you work with Robert Rodriguez UM
Speaker 1: and you as the viewer, are basically a star in
Speaker 1: the movie. Michelle Rodriguez plays another agent of the same
Speaker 1: making and biology and technology, and she basically takes you
Speaker 1: through a story. Uh. It's set piece after set piece
Speaker 1: after set piece, high action, high octane UM basically revealing
Speaker 1: who you are as you moved through the story. Talk
Speaker 1: about your background because you were essentially a company that
Speaker 1: got acquired by st X, So describe that before and
Speaker 1: after sure. Um, so Rick and I have been working
Speaker 1: together for quite a while. We met at a company
Speaker 1: called Maker Studios. I was running creative development and Rick
Speaker 1: was running the entertainment vertical. We developed and package a
Speaker 1: lot of products there, RECU Piece, Rescu Piece, r I P.
Speaker 1: Really that's another pat Yeah that's next week. Um. But
Speaker 1: you know, so we met, we really hit it off.
Speaker 1: It's been a great partnership. And and what we saw
Speaker 1: coming was this new technology, right, and so the idea
Speaker 1: these headsets were coming out there was hardware, Google, HTC, Facebook,
Speaker 1: We're all really going headfirst into this and you know,
Speaker 1: investing billions of dollars, and so we knew that there
Speaker 1: was going to be a content issue, right and and
Speaker 1: so the you know, the idea content issue, meaning there's
Speaker 1: nothing to watch in these headsets. The only way for
Speaker 1: people to want to buy these things is if there's
Speaker 1: something fun to watch or interact with. And so we
Speaker 1: took it upon ourselves just to figure out how do
Speaker 1: we produce content. Obviously, we have more video production background
Speaker 1: that we do interactive, so we really focused on non
Speaker 1: interactive three sixty video. Um. This was just around the
Speaker 1: time that Facebook and Google were launching through sixty video
Speaker 1: products on their platforms, so they were really in need
Speaker 1: of touting what this new video product was. So we
Speaker 1: ended up working really closely with a bunch of a
Speaker 1: bunch of entertainment companies, but also really closely with Google
Speaker 1: and Facebook to help them develop their own content and
Speaker 1: even work with them to help develop their own camera systems.
Speaker 1: And we ended up producing over the course of you know,
Speaker 1: two years, we produced over a hundred VR experiences, primarily
Speaker 1: distributed on Facebook and YouTube, and you know, we built
Speaker 1: a pretty substantial production services company. We're making what other
Speaker 1: people wanted to make, right, We're really facilitating production UM.
Speaker 1: It was always our intention to figure out how to
Speaker 1: crack storytelling UM. And we were introduced to STX and
Speaker 1: it seemed like, you know, their aspirations of being more
Speaker 1: than just a movie studio were very clear from the
Speaker 1: get go UM, and they liked the idea of bringing
Speaker 1: in talent. Yes we're talking about a movie, but look
Speaker 1: what all the other things that we're doing, and plugging
Speaker 1: in these directors, actors, writers into other formats. And so
Speaker 1: I think we helped build void for them and get
Speaker 1: into a more innovative for thinking space. And now it's
Speaker 1: been about two and a half years since we've been there.
Speaker 1: I think what was really exciting for us was as
Speaker 1: an independent VR production company, we were really limited in
Speaker 1: the scope of what we could make and it was
Speaker 1: essentially the bulk of what we were doing was work
Speaker 1: for higher um and and so with st TX, it
Speaker 1: was really having the resources, having better access to talent,
Speaker 1: and and really just you know, having a seat at
Speaker 1: the table when it came to the core pillars of
Speaker 1: that media company. I think at other studios, the VR
Speaker 1: division might be in the basement or something. It's it's
Speaker 1: sort of like if it's even there, it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's an experimental part of the company, where it's it's
Speaker 1: really about the marketing assets that they could create versus
Speaker 1: the original content opportunity. And also how can we actually
Speaker 1: build a business around this new medium and utilize all
Speaker 1: the best, you know, facets of of what we have
Speaker 1: to offer as a studio. And so for us, that
Speaker 1: was a really strong proposition. Well, on the other hand,
Speaker 1: I can understand why other studios may treat this is
Speaker 1: a more let's call it marginal pursuit as I see it,
Speaker 1: and we could talk about it if you disagree, the
Speaker 1: market for VR entertainment is not quite there, even by
Speaker 1: the most i'd say charitable assessment. So any company like
Speaker 1: STX that put serious investment in this, there's risk that
Speaker 1: there's just not a market there for that content. Is
Speaker 1: that assessment off base? I think it's a it's a
Speaker 1: fair assessment. But you know, the level of investment that
Speaker 1: we're making is actually very responsible. I think what we're
Speaker 1: not doing is going out on day one and just
Speaker 1: spending a ton of money and hoping we're going to
Speaker 1: get our money back. We spend a lot of time
Speaker 1: early on UM developing thoughtful strategies and a business plan
Speaker 1: around this. We knew that we in in in pursuing
Speaker 1: original content, original VR movies. It wasn't going to be
Speaker 1: free content. We knew we had to monetize the content right,
Speaker 1: and so we had to really look at how how
Speaker 1: big is this market? How big is this market going
Speaker 1: to be in twelve months, twenty four months? How can
Speaker 1: we create a pipeline of content to sort of service
Speaker 1: the need for premium VA entertainment with recognizable talent while
Speaker 1: at the same time you know having UM, you know,
Speaker 1: knowing the caliber of talent that we're working with, you know,
Speaker 1: making it realistic for them to work with us. I mean,
Speaker 1: the nice thing about our our content is that it
Speaker 1: is short form, right, and so our shoot with Robert
Speaker 1: in Austin for the Limit was a week, and so
Speaker 1: the asks are smaller with talent, the overall timelines are shorter.
Speaker 1: And because you've developed this new format, the post production
Speaker 1: and some of the challenges and pitfalls and I think
Speaker 1: other companies are are are hitting up against we sort
Speaker 1: of found ways around that to help us save well.
Speaker 1: As you guys look around the landscape, whether it's from
Speaker 1: studios in the traditional sense or sort of a new
Speaker 1: wave of uh studios specialized in this space, are you
Speaker 1: seeing signs encouraging signs that the VR entertainment marketplace can
Speaker 1: get somewhere. Absolutely. I think it's still early. Like any technology.
Speaker 1: I think in the next few years we'll we'll see
Speaker 1: a big boost in sales. And in fact, last year
Speaker 1: on the fourth quarter of the holiday season, you know,
Speaker 1: we're speaking with Oculus and they were feeling really good.
Speaker 1: They overshot what they thought they were going to sell
Speaker 1: in terms of units, and so I think, like a
Speaker 1: lot of technology, it takes longer than people think, but
Speaker 1: then when it arrives, it moves a lot faster. And
Speaker 1: so I think we're still in that phase where people
Speaker 1: are understanding what these things are there now all in
Speaker 1: all the top like gift lists right for holidays and
Speaker 1: purchases um, and so I think we're early, but it's
Speaker 1: definitely gaining a lot of momentum. And I think right
Speaker 1: now our approaches. You put on these headsets and you
Speaker 1: don't really recognize anything. Right. There's a lot of independent
Speaker 1: gaming companies, there's a lot of sort of experiential live
Speaker 1: action docuseries, and I think those are all important facets
Speaker 1: of this VR ecosystem. But the idea of a VR movie,
Speaker 1: a blockbuster VR movie, You put on your headset and
Speaker 1: you see Michelle Rodriguez's face, you see Norman Rita's face.
Speaker 1: These are people that are super fans right of The
Speaker 1: Walking Dead, or they love Avatar, they love Fast and Furious.
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, there's a confidence that we're giving
Speaker 1: these people that this is something that they should be
Speaker 1: watching and for a micro transaction, it's it's worth opening
Speaker 1: up the wild. They've always have already invested money and
Speaker 1: time into this tech and so now they really want
Speaker 1: to utilize it, and so they they mean the users
Speaker 1: and so um. You know, I think what we're trying
Speaker 1: to do is build a behavior, right, because we're building
Speaker 1: the market as we go. And if we create this
Speaker 1: behavior and be consistent with the output of content, all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, if someone knows that every two or
Speaker 1: three months a new VR film is going to come
Speaker 1: out with directors and actors that they love, that's gonna
Speaker 1: that's gonna start to snowball and turn into a real business. Well,
Speaker 1: how big are your ambitions here or should I say
Speaker 1: how being an upside do you think there is for
Speaker 1: VR entertainment? Could we see it side by side one
Speaker 1: day with film and television or do you have perhaps
Speaker 1: you know, smaller expectations. Well, I think we look at
Speaker 1: sort of the history of cinema, right, and we've sort
Speaker 1: of done done this and looked at a timeline, and
Speaker 1: it's really interesting when you see advancements that have really
Speaker 1: created a more immersive experience for the audience, and so
Speaker 1: you know, introduction of color, surround sound, computer graphics, three
Speaker 1: d um large format. What we're doing, we see at
Speaker 1: a high level is sort of an iteration on a
Speaker 1: process that's that's been taking place for a really long time,
Speaker 1: and so the potential for it is actually huge. And
Speaker 1: we're also thinking there are we're actively exploring this now,
Speaker 1: opportunities to bring these experiences inside of movie theaters. Right,
Speaker 1: And so, you know, this screen is a screen and
Speaker 1: a VR headset. For us, it is just another screen.
Speaker 1: It happens to be a very big screen. But as
Speaker 1: a premium content studio, how can we fill that screen
Speaker 1: with the best quality content with the biggest and best
Speaker 1: talent that we can find. And we think if we
Speaker 1: if we can do that, and we can do it consistently,
Speaker 1: and we're grabbing market share now, we're going to hold
Speaker 1: onto that market share as we hit this um, you know,
Speaker 1: inflection point when it comes to the adoption of this technology.
Speaker 1: We think it has tremendous potential. Yeah, I mean it's
Speaker 1: it's I think distribution is the key word, right. There's
Speaker 1: there's people at home that have these headsets. More and
Speaker 1: more will buy them over time as they get higher resolution,
Speaker 1: they're lighter, they're smaller and more comfortable. Um. The other
Speaker 1: piece of it is out of home location base. We're
Speaker 1: talking before we started the podcast about Dreamscape. I think
Speaker 1: location based VR entertainment is growing rapidly um and people
Speaker 1: are realizing that while the home market grows, how do
Speaker 1: we get headsets out into the real world. So people
Speaker 1: understand that this technology exists and that's extremely powerful. So
Speaker 1: the idea of you know, first window at movie theaters
Speaker 1: where you go to a movie of traditional movie, you
Speaker 1: walk out and you realize that there is a VR
Speaker 1: movie theater now the screen next door to that, and
Speaker 1: so building that out we're actually selling tickets. That is
Speaker 1: a core part of our proposition because I think at
Speaker 1: this moment, the home is the home, and now we
Speaker 1: need to build this first window of location based distribution
Speaker 1: because that will really help grow this thing. Well, it's
Speaker 1: also kind of a chicken egg thing, isn't it, Where technology,
Speaker 1: on the one hand has to be there for content
Speaker 1: to flourish, but on the other hand, sometimes it's that
Speaker 1: big piece of hid content that can get the technology
Speaker 1: going and then get the audience go that house cards
Speaker 1: a moment exactly, or I would say I Love Lucy
Speaker 1: might be the better. Yeah, it's a really a new medium,
Speaker 1: whereas I don't feel like Netflix is a different medium
Speaker 1: than telligence, right, it lit up a platform. But you're right,
Speaker 1: it's not. It's not a different iteration of a format.
Speaker 1: I think, UM it is chicken or egg. I think
Speaker 1: time and time again, it has proven that it's not
Speaker 1: about the technology, it's about the utilization of the technology.
Speaker 1: And I think in our minds, these VR movies are
Speaker 1: a really strong first step into powerful narrative storytelling using
Speaker 1: these different tools, and it's just about getting it out
Speaker 1: there to the people. The great thing about VR movies
Speaker 1: as an example of a type of content in VR is,
Speaker 1: unlike gaming, we think that most people would be interested
Speaker 1: in watching a VR movie. It doesn't require, you know,
Speaker 1: expertise in gaming. It doesn't require having to sort of,
Speaker 1: you know, use a controller that maybe you're not familiar with.
Speaker 1: It's it's actually really accessible, and especially with our format,
Speaker 1: which is very much a lean back format. Just like
Speaker 1: you would sit on your couch and watch a TV show,
Speaker 1: you could sit on your couch and put a headset
Speaker 1: on and lean back and watch one of our movies.
Speaker 1: So we think that from UH and an audience perspective,
Speaker 1: it's really easy to jump to jump into these and
Speaker 1: that's really going to help UM you know, our our
Speaker 1: our our our hope and and sort of everything that
Speaker 1: that we're working towards is that this this becomes a
Speaker 1: habit and it becomes a category of content that people
Speaker 1: associate with VR. Right now, that is not the case,
Speaker 1: and so a lot of the work we're doing, I mean,
Speaker 1: the reason we're here talking to you today is really
Speaker 1: to help spread the word that this type of content exists,
Speaker 1: and that from a discover ability standpoint, really helping the
Speaker 1: limit and our future projects really stand out. Well. You know,
Speaker 1: we talked about chicken and egg and how content potentially
Speaker 1: lead the way. But on the other side of the equation,
Speaker 1: the distribution, the technology side, the thing that you depend
Speaker 1: on to get your content out there. Do you think
Speaker 1: things need to happen on that front that will help
Speaker 1: the content things. You're looking out into the marketplace's future
Speaker 1: and saying this needs to happen, and then content is
Speaker 1: really going to start to catch fire for sure. I
Speaker 1: think in a perfect world, every major VR marketplace would
Speaker 1: have the capabilities to to to take our our VR
Speaker 1: movies and sort of display them to the viewer without
Speaker 1: them having to install a standalone app, right just like
Speaker 1: you know, Apple has iTunes built in. It's sort of
Speaker 1: it's built into the platform, and you're just they're presented
Speaker 1: with all of these options and you can purchase the rent, etcetera.
Speaker 1: What's next? What else are you guys doing? Is there
Speaker 1: a whole development slate? Uh, walk me through it. This
Speaker 1: is Rick. Yes, we are. We've been spending the last
Speaker 1: eighteen months actively developing projects. We have a slate right
Speaker 1: now of over fifteen VR movies in different stages. We're
Speaker 1: focusing on different genres, so certainly horror, thriller, action, sci fi,
Speaker 1: even comedy. Um, we're working with incredible filmmakers. Were really
Speaker 1: excited to soon announce more details about that slate. But
Speaker 1: we have been heads down working on this for a
Speaker 1: long time and we are very much excited to start
Speaker 1: bringing more of these things to life. In terms of
Speaker 1: the scale of production, and I know that we're talking
Speaker 1: short form, I'm just curious, budget wise, can you ballpark
Speaker 1: this is VR something that's you know, exponentially more expensive
Speaker 1: than a typical shoot, or maybe equipment prices are reasonable.
Speaker 1: Just curious to get a sense of that reality. It's
Speaker 1: not a hold on, let me let me start over.
Speaker 1: Um without getting into the specifics around our budgets. We
Speaker 1: are very responsible and how we're putting these together. I
Speaker 1: would say, you know, it's closer to the indie film world.
Speaker 1: And remember these are twenty minute movies, and so you know,
Speaker 1: for us, this is in our conversations with filmmakers early on,
Speaker 1: I think we really try and set the stage for
Speaker 1: what this is like. You know, we have to be
Speaker 1: real about where the market is today and where it's going.
Speaker 1: And this is very much a creative outlet, right. This
Speaker 1: is very much a ace too to create something that's
Speaker 1: very different from everything else that you're working on. That's
Speaker 1: sort of core to our our proposition to filmmakers. And
Speaker 1: I think what we find is that in pitching directors,
Speaker 1: um and and and talent across the board, there are
Speaker 1: definitely individuals out there that that pitch resonates right where
Speaker 1: it's it's it's they they want to get their hands
Speaker 1: into something new and innovate in a space where that
Speaker 1: hasn't been done before. I mean that was Robert Rodriguez
Speaker 1: a hundred percent. As soon as he learned that, you know,
Speaker 1: we have the ability to do this, he was all in.
Speaker 1: And so I think luckily we we've had the opportunity
Speaker 1: to meet with many creators that have that that share
Speaker 1: that same mentality. And I'm also curious, how do you
Speaker 1: get a director the caliber of Robert Rodriguez to do
Speaker 1: something like this. Did he come to you saying, hey,
Speaker 1: I want to do VR or do you come to
Speaker 1: him just curious to get a sense of the genesis. Sure,
Speaker 1: I think it speaks to what Rick saying. You know,
Speaker 1: we've met a lot of film directors. I'd say there
Speaker 1: is a fraction, not a small fraction. I'd say twenty.
Speaker 1: Those of those talent need to be doing something innovative.
Speaker 1: You know, Yes, they do their big studio movies, but
Speaker 1: in between time, they want to be pushing technology forward.
Speaker 1: They want to be pushing storytelling forward. So we flew
Speaker 1: down to Austin Um. It was while he was shooting
Speaker 1: shooting Alida, I think um And so we walked around
Speaker 1: the Alita set with him, We talked about VR. He
Speaker 1: brought up his son, Racer Max, who co wrote the
Speaker 1: script with him, who's really big into VR. And I
Speaker 1: think he saw this as an opportunity to yes, develop
Speaker 1: new storytelling techniques with new technology, but also speak to
Speaker 1: a younger audience. That you know is into this new stuff, right,
Speaker 1: and so I think, as as a storyteller, you want
Speaker 1: to stay relevant to all audiences, are as many people
Speaker 1: as possible. And so we were down there, he really
Speaker 1: understood what we were wanted to do pretty quickly. He
Speaker 1: understood the advantage of what our format was giving against
Speaker 1: a full three sixty video experience, and so he really
Speaker 1: blamed onto that. We said, you know, we want to
Speaker 1: make a twenty minute film. We really need stars in
Speaker 1: this because that's one of that's one of the promises
Speaker 1: to our audiences that we want to start, right, is like,
Speaker 1: let's get recognizable talent in signature roles um. And so
Speaker 1: you know, he shook his head and was like, okay,
Speaker 1: I get it. And so we got on a plane
Speaker 1: and we came back to l a UM and within
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks we had a script and UM,
Speaker 1: Michelle Rodriguez wanted to be in it. And so obviously
Speaker 1: that came through Robert and he has his close collaborators
Speaker 1: that are in his orbit on a regular basis and
Speaker 1: he can go to them and trust them, and a
Speaker 1: lot of those people just like him, they want to
Speaker 1: be doing cool new stuff. UM and from there, we
Speaker 1: you know, from there, we just it went forward. We
Speaker 1: ended up doing a test shoot to make sure that
Speaker 1: we could Robert could get all those shots that he
Speaker 1: wanted to and start to develop this film language with
Speaker 1: our camera system, and then we shot at at the
Speaker 1: top of two. One last question. You guys were embedded
Speaker 1: at a so called traditional Hollywood company at st X.
Speaker 1: When you look out at the future of VR, do
Speaker 1: you see Hollywood position to continue the track record it
Speaker 1: has built up in film and television or do you
Speaker 1: think maybe it's not an either or that we're going
Speaker 1: to see sort of a new Hollywood emerge in terms
Speaker 1: of VR production. Well, I think I think it's gonna
Speaker 1: live next to it. Right. It's just like when we
Speaker 1: were at Maker Studios. I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: when digital was coming up and short form was really
Speaker 1: big and there was a lot of funding going into it,
Speaker 1: people were staying our TV's dad, look at the you know,
Speaker 1: look at the ratings that are plummeting. Digital is gonna
Speaker 1: take over short form and that was never going to
Speaker 1: be the case, right, I think short forms sitting next
Speaker 1: to sits next to TV, which sits next to film
Speaker 1: six to six, next to theater and so I think
Speaker 1: VR is just another iteration of telling stories. I think
Speaker 1: it will be complementary. I think, you know, now, we're
Speaker 1: working with established directors that have a voice. I think
Speaker 1: the Kubricks and the Spielberg's of VR are probably twelve
Speaker 1: years old, and they're growing up watching VR and playing VR,
Speaker 1: and they're gonna have They're gonna have a take that
Speaker 1: is completely different and doesn't even exist today. So I
Speaker 1: think while we're waiting for those for those superstars to
Speaker 1: go to college and study UM or not go to
Speaker 1: college and start making these things out of high school,
Speaker 1: I think we're leaning on the people who can evoke
Speaker 1: the most emotion and tell the best stories, and I
Speaker 1: think it will just be a balance moving forward. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to seeing how that future unfolds, and
Speaker 1: I'm sure you guys will be in the thick of it.
Speaker 1: Best of luck and thanks for coming in, Thanks for
Speaker 1: having us, Thank you, and now a special bonus segment
Speaker 1: to this podcast episode. A recurring theme in my interview
Speaker 1: with the STX Surreal guys was how VR is a
Speaker 1: medium that will come of age with a younger generation.
Speaker 1: So I thought better did check in with their own
Speaker 1: sense of the VR marketplace. Then my own eleven year
Speaker 1: old son, Max Wallenstein, is a fifth grader here in
Speaker 1: l a author of his own graphic novel, an accomplished
Speaker 1: Buku lele player, and champion of the school spelling be
Speaker 1: Thanks for fitting me into your busy schedule, Max, Thank you. Andy. Okay,
Speaker 1: just this once, for now, I'll let you call me Andy.
Speaker 1: We'll do without the daddy part. So you watch a
Speaker 1: lot of VR. We've done a lot of that. We've
Speaker 1: got an Oculus go and hone and go to some
Speaker 1: of the location based VR stuff out there. But let's
Speaker 1: start with the limit, which I just talked about in
Speaker 1: this interview. What did you think of that? Um, it
Speaker 1: was really cool. It's nothing like I've really ever seen.
Speaker 1: It's not like you're watching a movie. Um, it's kind
Speaker 1: of like you're in the movie. It's yeah, you're part
Speaker 1: of it. You're a character in it, you're sort of
Speaker 1: the main character. And so you thought that was interesting.
Speaker 1: And do you think that movies have a place in
Speaker 1: a true reality? Do I think movies have a place? Um? Yeah, movies,
Speaker 1: they'd be great, and virtual reality I think that it
Speaker 1: would be It's really cool. Because like you'll usually see
Speaker 1: movies like that, you've never seen that. It's, um it's
Speaker 1: like a big step from what it usually is. So
Speaker 1: that's that's cool. Okay. Well, like I said, we've got
Speaker 1: a device at home, how often would you say you
Speaker 1: use VR? UM? Well, I used to use it a
Speaker 1: lot when I got it, I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: this is amazing. But now I've done it seven million times,
Speaker 1: so I use it once in a blue moon. So
Speaker 1: it's like the novelty is worn off. Yeah, yeah, I see.
Speaker 1: My theory is is that just isn't enough good content
Speaker 1: out there. Do you think if there was more you
Speaker 1: would probably use VR more often? Yeah? So the oculus
Speaker 1: UM we have is not the best. Um it doesn't
Speaker 1: have a lot of things, doesn't have a lot of
Speaker 1: like things you can down the things that I use
Speaker 1: and watch. Um. So yeah, I think that in the
Speaker 1: future will have more stuff that I can use and
Speaker 1: will be better. Well what did you like? You said
Speaker 1: you like the limit? What else out there in VR
Speaker 1: do you enjoy? So I like that there's um Netflix
Speaker 1: because that's something I like and I watched, So so
Speaker 1: we should know that Netflix VR. You're not Netflix doesn't
Speaker 1: have VR content. You're able to just watch the usual
Speaker 1: Netflix but in a VR environment. So that's cool, but
Speaker 1: that's not really what VR helmets are for. Yes, it's
Speaker 1: not like you're in the right the setting. It's not
Speaker 1: like The Limit. Now you've also done what's known as
Speaker 1: location based VR, which is you don't just watch VR
Speaker 1: and the helmet at home, you go to like a
Speaker 1: special place. What have you done on that front? Um,
Speaker 1: So I gotta um dream escape, um explain what that is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it's like it's VR, but it's like it's like
Speaker 1: in a building as or and um, you can be
Speaker 1: in like different movies, like kind of like The Limit,
Speaker 1: and you can be with like, uh five other people
Speaker 1: and you're like sort of all at a mission movie
Speaker 1: and like one room, and it's not like a nauseous
Speaker 1: experiment that like like that your own one at home
Speaker 1: might be. It's like you're not like really seeing it.
Speaker 1: It's not like you're standing in the actual place. So
Speaker 1: it's not it's like regularly standing. It's not. It's really
Speaker 1: I think it's better. Yeah, I I did it with you,
Speaker 1: and I know you've done it a number of times
Speaker 1: since then. Do you think that that kind of VR
Speaker 1: has more potential than the helmet stuff at home. UM.
Speaker 1: I think they both have a lot of potential. I
Speaker 1: think the helmet that you can use at home UM
Speaker 1: can always be updated and made better and have more
Speaker 1: options and more updates UM. And yeah, I think location
Speaker 1: based it will also improve too over years. So do
Speaker 1: you think when you think, like five ten years out
Speaker 1: and you get older, that you will be watching say
Speaker 1: as much virtual reality as you do like movies or
Speaker 1: YouTube or Netflix UM as I do now? Yeah? Well no, no,
Speaker 1: I mean, do you do you think you'll do much
Speaker 1: more than you do now, because as you made clear,
Speaker 1: you don't watch much now because there's not much content
Speaker 1: to watch. I think I'll probably do more because it's
Speaker 1: going to be more updated and more improved and you
Speaker 1: can do more things, and it's probably gonna be like,
Speaker 1: you know, like everyone's gonna be into it. It's going
Speaker 1: to be like right now, VR is like the biggest
Speaker 1: thing and it has to grow and more people use it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, the thing I think is going to help
Speaker 1: is if they make the helmets to the point where
Speaker 1: they're as light as glasses or not even helmets at all.
Speaker 1: That I think could be the big deal. What do
Speaker 1: you think when you do you think that's possible? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't really. I don't really sort of care in
Speaker 1: that department of way size, right, Although you mentioned nausea
Speaker 1: sometimes a problem because I sometimes feel that good time.
Speaker 1: I don't feel naucha, but it's a problem for many people. So, um,
Speaker 1: I mean would you think that lighter, um how much
Speaker 1: would help? Well? I don't think with nausea, but I
Speaker 1: think in general people don't necessarily like bulky equipment and
Speaker 1: that less of that, I think it becomes something that
Speaker 1: more people might be interested. Like thinking about three D glasses.
Speaker 1: Remember like that was hot for like two minutes for
Speaker 1: people for watching televisions, and you and I tried that
Speaker 1: and that market completely went away because people don't want
Speaker 1: to put three D glasses on in their house. Yeah
Speaker 1: that was Yeah, that wasn't that amazing? Um that sort
Speaker 1: of wear it off? Yea. Hopefully VR will not end
Speaker 1: up where three DTV was. Well, Max, I thank you
Speaker 1: for sharing your insights. Uh, come back to the podcast anytime.
Speaker 1: Thank you. This has been another episode of Strictly Business.
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