1
00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:07,080
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

2
00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:10,280
Speaker 2: Marja Sparrange is with us. He's of course head of

3
00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,680
Speaker 2: the sixteen billion dollar market CAAP automaker. We're talking about Rivian.

4
00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:15,960
Speaker 2: We talk about this company all the time with us

5
00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,680
Speaker 2: at Bloomberg Tech Summit here in San Francisco, and we

6
00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:22,239
Speaker 2: have Ed Ludlow, a member of our team cost of

7
00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:25,960
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Technology who knows this company so well. Hey, one

8
00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,240
Speaker 2: thing I want to start with Rja is there's a

9
00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,040
Speaker 2: lot going on today, the bromance in the White House

10
00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:34,320
Speaker 2: between Elon and Donald Trump. It seems like it's over

11
00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:36,760
Speaker 2: and it's not going well.

12
00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,440
Speaker 3: So I'm just curious have you been able to kind

13
00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,199
Speaker 3: of win market share or anything as a result of

14
00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:47,400
Speaker 3: kind of Elon's position at DOGE And I'm just curious

15
00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:48,760
Speaker 3: how it might play out here.

16
00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I think Teslamon, Yeah, I think in general,

17
00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:57,840
Speaker 4: it's the thing that's been surprised is just how politicize

18
00:00:58,480 --> 00:00:59,800
Speaker 4: A lot of things have be common. So I'll let

19
00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:03,480
Speaker 4: you equals become politicized. Specific brands within the electric vehicles

20
00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,920
Speaker 4: pace to politicized, and so what we've tried to do

21
00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:08,720
Speaker 4: as a brand really really focused on is to focus

22
00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,119
Speaker 4: on what we stand for, the products, the ratch meets

23
00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:14,640
Speaker 4: and and you know, there's a famous Michael Jordan quote

24
00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:17,800
Speaker 4: which is we have Republicans that you know, he said,

25
00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,760
Speaker 4: Republicans and Democrats both by Nikes. And it's the same

26
00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:22,480
Speaker 4: thing with Rivians. I'll go to Rivian events. I was

27
00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,840
Speaker 4: just in New York yesterday and yeah, there's it's such

28
00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:30,320
Speaker 4: a beautiful mix of backgrounds, perspectives, cultures that are drawn

29
00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:32,679
Speaker 4: to what we're building as a brand. Right and we're

30
00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:34,760
Speaker 4: about to launch what we call R two, which is

31
00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,240
Speaker 4: a lower priced vehicle starts at forty five thousand dollars

32
00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,320
Speaker 4: and that product will even you know, broaden the aperture

33
00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:41,760
Speaker 4: even more.

34
00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,319
Speaker 5: And so I think what Kars asking is if there's

35
00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,840
Speaker 5: net positive effect for you from this environment on sales

36
00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:49,760
Speaker 5: and pre orders.

37
00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:51,720
Speaker 4: I think that's what she was asking.

38
00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:53,840
Speaker 5: I think you were benefiting from this.

39
00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,000
Speaker 2: Environment to test some movement. Have you benefited from it?

40
00:01:57,880 --> 00:01:59,280
Speaker 4: I think there are a lot of customers that are

41
00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:00,920
Speaker 4: looking for a brand I want to connect with, so

42
00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:02,080
Speaker 4: that we're seeing that for sure.

43
00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:04,920
Speaker 1: Sort of on that and thinking about the politics of

44
00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,120
Speaker 1: this rare earth. I mean, you and the team have

45
00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,600
Speaker 1: been really clear that you've been working to educate the

46
00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,840
Speaker 1: Trump administration when it comes to the complexities around processing

47
00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:15,000
Speaker 1: rare earth here in the US. We did hear from

48
00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,520
Speaker 1: the President earlier today after a call with President Chiji

49
00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:19,799
Speaker 1: and Pang. He said there should no longer be any

50
00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:23,400
Speaker 1: questions respecting the complexity of rare earth's products. Are you

51
00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:25,960
Speaker 1: still concerned about accessibility to rare earth?

52
00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:29,920
Speaker 4: Well, first, I'd say I appreciate that the administration recognizes

53
00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,359
Speaker 4: this is an issue that's important, and I think that

54
00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:34,520
Speaker 4: we've done a lot of work and smell a lot

55
00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,240
Speaker 4: of time with the administration on this topic. I think

56
00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:43,640
Speaker 4: this is perhaps one of the biggest topics surrounding you know,

57
00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:47,920
Speaker 4: the trade tensions with China. Well, it's well documented that

58
00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,400
Speaker 4: a vast majority of the world's processing for these rare

59
00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:55,560
Speaker 4: earth metals happens in China. So this is something that

60
00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:57,600
Speaker 4: you know, we're going to continue to be very focused on,

61
00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,240
Speaker 4: continue to have concerns about until we start to see

62
00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:00,799
Speaker 4: it really move.

63
00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:01,959
Speaker 1: What's your backup plan.

64
00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:05,120
Speaker 4: Which we have many backup playing.

65
00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:07,320
Speaker 1: You can't get access to these rare earths for some

66
00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,200
Speaker 1: raison an extended period of time, which are essential in

67
00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:11,600
Speaker 1: making evs and batteries.

68
00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:13,800
Speaker 4: What do you do? So what we've we've done, we've

69
00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,240
Speaker 4: spent time on over the last several months, is to

70
00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:21,040
Speaker 4: build alternative supply chains. But they're not they're not elegant

71
00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,600
Speaker 4: because they're not set up for scale, and and a

72
00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,600
Speaker 4: lot of people beyond us are also trying to build

73
00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:31,240
Speaker 4: these alternative supply chains. So I think, you know, the

74
00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,080
Speaker 4: hope is that in the short to medium term we

75
00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:37,040
Speaker 4: see this open back up. And I think in the

76
00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,640
Speaker 4: long term we're probably going to see both investment into

77
00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:43,200
Speaker 4: building earth capacity outside of China and then innovation to

78
00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,560
Speaker 4: remove rare earths from products. You know, So if you

79
00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,200
Speaker 4: take in an electric vehicle, the reason this is so

80
00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:51,720
Speaker 4: important is the motors use permanent magnets. Then permanent magnets

81
00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:55,200
Speaker 4: have earth metals, you know, things like dysprosium, you know,

82
00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:57,560
Speaker 4: all those things on the periodic table that you forget

83
00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:01,840
Speaker 4: about there. Yeah, yeah, but those those rare battles are

84
00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,160
Speaker 4: needed in the magnets. But you can create an electro

85
00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,160
Speaker 4: magnet to power the rotor, you know, the rotors a

86
00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:08,840
Speaker 4: spinning part of the motor. But then you've got to

87
00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:10,440
Speaker 4: get power to the rotors, so that you can do

88
00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:12,160
Speaker 4: it with a brush, you can do it with induction,

89
00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:15,440
Speaker 4: So it's a more complex motor product, but it does

90
00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:17,640
Speaker 4: remove the complexity of global trade.

91
00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:19,599
Speaker 2: Around or is that a little bit time away.

92
00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not gonna you can't flip your design over overnight.

93
00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:25,479
Speaker 4: But I would say I think a lot of the

94
00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,279
Speaker 4: arto industry is going to start finding innovative ways that

95
00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,120
Speaker 4: are perhaps maybe be a little more expensive. That reduced

96
00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:32,599
Speaker 4: the RELI.

97
00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:34,400
Speaker 5: Once somewhere people wonder how nimble you are there, Like,

98
00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:36,440
Speaker 5: do you remember when we first met seven years ago

99
00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:40,000
Speaker 5: with respect your suppliers really wouldn't engage with you because

100
00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,960
Speaker 5: of scale. So if you have had to pivot a

101
00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,960
Speaker 5: little bit because of policy, particularly for planning that are two,

102
00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,400
Speaker 5: have you been able to get your spires to listen

103
00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:55,000
Speaker 5: to you and be effect to change what's changed?

104
00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,000
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, we've talked about the slide. I mean

105
00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,320
Speaker 4: our relationship was suppliers. A leverage we have with those

106
00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,200
Speaker 4: suppliers is so much stronger today with our two and

107
00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,440
Speaker 4: what's to come than what we had, you know in

108
00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:10,480
Speaker 4: twenty nineteen or twenty twenty, even twenty eighteen. But I'd

109
00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:14,360
Speaker 4: say the thing that's really helpful for us in our

110
00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,320
Speaker 4: two is it's not as if this is a surprise

111
00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,320
Speaker 4: we saw, you know, if you're going into summer of

112
00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:22,680
Speaker 4: last year, we saw some of these tensions already rising

113
00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,159
Speaker 4: between the United States and China, and that was as

114
00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,600
Speaker 4: we're planning for and sourcing our two. So we contemplated

115
00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:32,840
Speaker 4: and in many ways anticipated a lot of these situations

116
00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:34,960
Speaker 4: we're now dealing with in terms of tariffs, in terms

117
00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,719
Speaker 4: of trade restrictions happening. So in the medium to long term,

118
00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,240
Speaker 4: it's we're pretty well covered. In the short to medium term,

119
00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,640
Speaker 4: you know, things get shut off. That's really challenging. And

120
00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:47,680
Speaker 4: so that's where I think the rare challenge is that

121
00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:51,159
Speaker 4: if this this happens, were it's off, it just creates

122
00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,800
Speaker 4: a lot of pressure on a very thin non China

123
00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:54,400
Speaker 4: supply chain.

124
00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:56,800
Speaker 5: I still think there's a lot of interest in Rivian.

125
00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:58,640
Speaker 5: What I hear is there's also a lot of interest

126
00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:03,520
Speaker 5: in also Chrome ability spin off. Would you consider kind

127
00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,160
Speaker 5: of de risking yourselves a little bit by allowing outside

128
00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:10,039
Speaker 5: investors to write you a check into that venture and

129
00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,440
Speaker 5: then get you some capital, or de risk your own

130
00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:13,640
Speaker 5: balance sheet in that respect.

131
00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:20,440
Speaker 4: So we spun this micromobility portion of rivine out and

132
00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,040
Speaker 4: we actually raised outside capitals. We brought okay, we brought

133
00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:24,800
Speaker 4: one hundred and five million dollars in at the.

134
00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:28,159
Speaker 1: Start of the year, which is from a CLIPS which.

135
00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,040
Speaker 4: Is from a Clipse exact right, and so it's now

136
00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,480
Speaker 4: independently financed from Ribbune and it's you know, it's a

137
00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:35,280
Speaker 4: really exciting set of products. We're going to show those

138
00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:36,200
Speaker 4: products in the fall.

139
00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,719
Speaker 5: But with the venture, look at even further outside capital

140
00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:39,800
Speaker 5: to get going a little bit.

141
00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:42,719
Speaker 4: We could, yeah, we could, but we're really happy with

142
00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,720
Speaker 4: where it is. It's it's exciting to build a new

143
00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,960
Speaker 4: business with the strength of all the Riview technologies and

144
00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:49,480
Speaker 4: starting right.

145
00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,039
Speaker 2: I said thirty seconds at the end to wrap up

146
00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,520
Speaker 2: our So with everything that's going on from the administration

147
00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:56,800
Speaker 2: kind of push back, it feels like against alternative energy

148
00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,479
Speaker 2: at EBS. Do you think it's a real setback or

149
00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,320
Speaker 2: things will keep moving and forgive me, it's just about.

150
00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:06,400
Speaker 4: The reason thirty seconds, All right, go Look, I think

151
00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:09,120
Speaker 4: I think there's a lot of noise in the short term,

152
00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,800
Speaker 4: but the end state is still really clear. The world's

153
00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:16,640
Speaker 4: going to electrify. We're going to move towards sustainable, carbon

154
00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:21,240
Speaker 4: neutral transportation, and the countries and the businesses that focus

155
00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:22,720
Speaker 4: on the future state are the ones that are going

156
00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,520
Speaker 4: to be participants in the long term. And so you know,

157
00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,240
Speaker 4: we talk about this often with demonstration, which is the

158
00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:32,480
Speaker 4: importance of US companies having technical leadership, production capacit around

159
00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:34,920
Speaker 4: these these areas and make sure we're there.

160
00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:36,880
Speaker 2: We did it, Dardy, thank you so much. Great way

161
00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:38,880
Speaker 2: for us to rap with this hour. Urguscreage, thank you

162
00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:40,920
Speaker 2: of course at Rivian and of course our and ledlove