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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of I Saw What

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Speaker 1: You Did.

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Speaker 2: My name is Millie. To Jericho, I'm Daniel Henderson, and

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Speaker 2: we are back with you to talk about movies.

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Speaker 3: How's it going, Danielle, Millie, I don't even want to

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Speaker 3: tell you how I'm doing because we have a guest

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Speaker 3: so incredible that I.

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Speaker 4: Just want to shut up immediately.

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Speaker 3: I just want to shut up, which is great for

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Speaker 3: podcasting to not want to speak.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we have zero time to dilly dally. Let's just

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Speaker 2: get to it.

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Speaker 1: So we have a mail bag, another epic email from

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Speaker 1: one of our listeners, and we thank everybody who writes

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Speaker 1: in this one again rose to the occasion, and we

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Speaker 1: found somebody who is maybe one of one of the

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Speaker 1: funniest people ever. I'm just gonna say that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's a huge statement, but I'm saying it.

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Speaker 4: Oh, that is not hyperbole.

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Speaker 3: It is not hype This is a person who genuinely

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Speaker 3: never fails to make me laugh. Yeah, every single time

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Speaker 3: I watch anything that they have produced, I cannot wait.

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Speaker 3: I feel like, should we just introduce our guests and

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Speaker 3: then read the question?

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Speaker 2: Hell, yes, let's go.

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Speaker 3: Okay, y'all, we are talking to someone who has a

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Speaker 3: ghost living inside of his tooth. He schooled all of

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Speaker 3: us and just really truly read us all for filth

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Speaker 3: about how we're all paying for French fries that we

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Speaker 3: charge to our student loans in nineteen ninety five and

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Speaker 3: we're still paying for this French fries.

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Speaker 4: If you don't understand what the word.

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Speaker 3: Shamala hamala means, I can't help you, and you should

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Speaker 3: go find out immediately. Because our guest is none other

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Speaker 3: then stand up comedian Kevin James Thornton.

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Speaker 2: How are you?

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Speaker 5: I am just great, Thanks for having me. I'm excited

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Speaker 5: to be here.

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Speaker 4: We are such huge fans.

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Speaker 3: I'm true, I'm not even can you genuinely make me

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Speaker 3: laugh all the time? And you are also from the nineties,

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Speaker 3: just like us.

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Speaker 5: I am from the nineties. I came here in a

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Speaker 5: weird time machine.

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Speaker 1: No, I don't think we've we've ever been this excited

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Speaker 1: by the way as we were, like, we almost couldn't

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Speaker 1: believe that he said, Oh my god, I'm an actual

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Speaker 1: fucking superstar on our podcast.

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Speaker 2: Very excited.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I'm like, let's talk to him from my dungeon closet.

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Speaker 3: This will be so exciting. But you are just so

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Speaker 3: prolifically funny, and I love, love love that every time

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Speaker 3: I look at your dates, like you're selling out your

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Speaker 3: stand up all over the place.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's been a wild dream come true the last

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Speaker 5: two years of my life.

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Speaker 4: How is it going?

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Speaker 3: How does it feel to be like back on stage

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Speaker 3: and out in the out with people and telling Jill, like,

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Speaker 3: how does it feel for you to even be bringing

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Speaker 3: this this to a bigger stage? Because you are a

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Speaker 3: stand up comedian by trade, you do you do a lot.

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Speaker 3: We're going to get into it, but how has it

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Speaker 3: been going for you? I know, it's been an overwhelming

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Speaker 3: couple of years.

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Speaker 5: It's been. It's like I said, it's just been a

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Speaker 5: totally unexpected dream come true. I had sort of retired

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Speaker 5: from stand up. I I toured for many years when

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Speaker 5: I was younger, and I just kind of burned myself out.

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Speaker 5: You know, it's a it's a difficult road. And I

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Speaker 5: came back to Nashville where I live, and I opened

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Speaker 5: a photography studio and I worked on some film stuff,

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Speaker 5: and uh, and then the pandemic happened, and TikTok happened,

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Speaker 5: and this avalanche of an audience was suddenly in front

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Speaker 5: of me. You know, I had sort of I it

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Speaker 5: was a surprise, you know. So it's been a it's

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Speaker 5: been a wild unexpected dream come true.

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Speaker 3: Well I'm just I'm glad it did come true. I

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Speaker 3: think that it's it's also kind of strange. You can't

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Speaker 3: predict anything nowadays, but you especially can't predict or for

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Speaker 3: me anyway. I can't predict success based on apps and

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Speaker 3: audiences because there's so many different ways for people to

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Speaker 3: access work now, and so I just never know, like

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Speaker 3: how people are finding or accessing things. So as an

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Speaker 3: as a middle aged person who barely can understand and

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Speaker 3: get with TikTok, I can watch videos, I cannot make

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Speaker 3: one to save my life. Yeah, I love that you

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Speaker 3: just bridge the generational gap.

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Speaker 2: I feel like it's not that hard, lady, just like

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Speaker 2: press record.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, pretty much, press record, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Press record.

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Speaker 3: I can't do a filter, I can't do a caph

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Speaker 3: I just I can't do anything. But it's really lovely

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Speaker 3: that you've been able to hit so many different types

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Speaker 3: of people. Like when I talk to people about your

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Speaker 3: comedy and we're sending links and we're laughing. It's all

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Speaker 3: people from all walks of life. And from all different

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Speaker 3: age groups, Like everyone loves you. I hope you know

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Speaker 3: that everyone loves you.

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Speaker 5: It's something I'm slowly becoming aware of. Like I have

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Speaker 5: people tell me, like my kids were running around the

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Speaker 5: yard saying Shama lahamala and I've never shown them your video, Like,

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Speaker 5: how is that possible? I'm like, am I like permeating

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Speaker 5: the ethos of yes of the world?

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Speaker 3: There speaking in tongues? She better respect? Yeah, straight up

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Speaker 3: speaking in tongues.

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Speaker 2: That's you are.

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Speaker 3: You're part of the zeitgeist. It's great. You also have

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Speaker 3: your own history in film, which I think, Uh, Millie,

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Speaker 3: you want to you want to ask your questions. I

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Speaker 3: know you had some prepared so I just want to

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Speaker 3: do I'll talk forever.

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Speaker 2: I'm a classic preparer.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 2: But I yeah, I think it's interesting because Yeah, like

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Speaker 2: you said, I mean you do a lot.

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Speaker 1: I mean you're doing these viral videos, You're you're a photographer,

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Speaker 1: stand up obviously and so. But you know, for our purposes,

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Speaker 1: this is a film podcast. I just couldn't help but

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Speaker 1: notice that you had made movies in the past.

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Speaker 2: And I've actually seen a couple of things.

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Speaker 1: I've seen the range Our Heart series that you did, and.

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Speaker 2: And I just think it's awesome like that.

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Speaker 1: You're just so like multifaceted and you just have dabbled

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Speaker 1: in a lot and you're really good at everything, which.

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Speaker 2: Is very rare.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, you're like a true creative renaissance man. It's

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Speaker 3: really wonderful to watch.

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Speaker 5: We can't use that word because I can't do anything athletic.

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Speaker 2: So do we have to include athleticism and renaissance?

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Speaker 1: Now?

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Speaker 4: We make our own rules now.

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Speaker 1: Ah well, But part of like, I think what maybe

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Speaker 1: speaks to your filmmaking and other things is that you're

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Speaker 1: just such a great storyteller. And that's I think part

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Speaker 1: of what people love about you and connect to you,

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Speaker 1: uh with, is just this idea that you're telling.

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Speaker 2: You're telling stories about your childhood and about yourself, and

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I don't. We're all we all

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Speaker 2: seem like we're maybe around the same age.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's kind of where Danielle and I

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Speaker 1: connect with your videos is that it's all just references

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Speaker 1: that we understand. And it's like everybody had that Duke's

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Speaker 1: of Hazard hairbrush, Like we all know what that is,

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Speaker 1: and you know, it's just that kind of thing and

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Speaker 1: so I mean, obviously your ability to tell stories is

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Speaker 1: what makes you really successful in a bunch of different areas.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, and actually that's the I mean. Storytelling is

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Speaker 5: such a funny word to me because it makes me

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Speaker 5: think of like someone in a library with a sock puppet, like,

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Speaker 5: gather around everybody, We're gonna have some storytelling. But that

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Speaker 5: is the It's all the same thing to me, it

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Speaker 5: honestly is. I mean even when I when I thought

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Speaker 5: I was retiring from stand up stuff, is when I mean,

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Speaker 5: this is like fifteen years ago and I was like,

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Speaker 5: I think I want to make movies. I think I

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Speaker 5: want to write a script and try and make it.

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Speaker 5: And I did. I had just read his name just

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Speaker 5: flew out of my head. He's a guy. He wrote

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Speaker 5: a book about just make the movie, Just make your movie.

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Speaker 5: It was like in the nineties, a book from the nineties.

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Speaker 4: It was save the Cat, not save the Cat.

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Speaker 5: No, he made a movie. Oh gosh, I can't.

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Speaker 4: I can see the cover.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, but yes, I know exactly.

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Speaker 5: It's real like renegade filmmaking, like it's.

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Speaker 2: Got stripped down the side.

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Speaker 5: Yes. I had just read that book and it inspired me.

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Speaker 5: I'm like, I'm just gonna make my movie, and so

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Speaker 5: I started reading books about screenwriting, and I bought a

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Speaker 5: camera and I made my first movie, like with no money,

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Speaker 5: and I just sort of kept doing that. I eventually

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Speaker 5: the couple of things that you may have seen, I

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Speaker 5: eventually sold to a small distributor that specifically works with

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Speaker 5: LGBTQ content, And honestly, I think, but again, it's just storytelling.

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Speaker 5: In my mind, it's not that different than getting on

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Speaker 5: a stage in a comedy club and telling my stories

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Speaker 5: that way. It is totally different, but the essence of

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Speaker 5: it in my head is the same.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, and I'm also I'm a self taught screenwriter as well,

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Speaker 3: and having a career in TV writing is always very

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Speaker 3: strange to me because I didn't go to school for

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Speaker 3: it or anything. But I think that's also part of

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Speaker 3: the kind of creative ethos that that a lot of

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Speaker 3: us grew up with in late eighties, you know, eighties, nineties,

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Speaker 3: is that just do it. So I love the fact

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Speaker 3: that you just kind of were like, I want to

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Speaker 3: do it, so I will, and I'm going to do

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Speaker 3: it for myself.

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Speaker 5: Robert Rodriguez Robert Rodriguez that's the right. Oh yeah, is

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Speaker 5: that right? Is that his name?

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Speaker 4: That's Robert Rodriguez. That's the one and the same thing.

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Speaker 3: Like we talk about this sometimes on the on the

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Speaker 3: podcast or there's so many filmmakers who just had a

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Speaker 3: story to tell and figured out how to do it

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Speaker 3: in that medium. So I think you're part of like

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Speaker 3: a grand tradition of people who were just like I

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Speaker 3: just you know this, this is not a world that's

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Speaker 3: set up to tell my story, So I'm just going

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Speaker 3: to do it myself.

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Speaker 5: Yeh. By the way, that isn't that that is such

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Speaker 5: a generation X work ethic. But right before, of course

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Speaker 5: it is. Yeah, right before the pandemic. I actually took

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Speaker 5: a class on how to use the Ari sixteen millimeter

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Speaker 5: SR three cameras because they're actually fairly affordable and a

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Speaker 5: lot of great movies were filmed on those that sixteen

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Speaker 5: milimeter format, and so it was a dream to get

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Speaker 5: my hands on one of those cameras and start making

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Speaker 5: movies that way. That's what Robert Rodriguez uses also, and

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Speaker 5: that that's just kind of been put on pause at

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Speaker 5: the moment because all of the of all the wild

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Speaker 5: change in my life. But I still feel like someday

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Speaker 5: I'm going to go back to that and I'm going

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Speaker 5: to make little art movies on sixteen milimeter film.

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Speaker 3: I love that, of course you will. I mean I

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Speaker 3: will work for free just second.

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Speaker 4: If you need.

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Speaker 2: Hired, listen, I will.

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Speaker 1: I will be there opening night for anything. I will

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Speaker 1: be there if you make a video of you going

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Speaker 1: to a sbarro.

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Speaker 2: In an airport or making art films.

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Speaker 3: So I'm a fan, and it's also it's something that

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Speaker 3: I wonder if you feel this too, that like as

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Speaker 3: as I get older, for sure I feel this that

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Speaker 3: I kind of I appreciate having different ways to tell

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Speaker 3: a story so that I don't ever get too bored

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Speaker 3: with one thing or kind of put all my eggs

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Speaker 3: in one basket and you know when you try.

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Speaker 4: I love I love that.

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Speaker 3: Your stand up has had this kind of regenerative spirit

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Speaker 3: and regenerative moment because I think that it's very easy

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Speaker 3: to get burnt out when you're doing one thing for

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Speaker 3: a long time, and so I just love that you

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Speaker 3: have again like this this way, so many different ways

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Speaker 3: to tell a story, and it kind of will help

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Speaker 3: fuel that creativity for a really long time. So that's

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Speaker 3: I can't wait to start seeing short films and full

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Speaker 3: films from your universe, from the multiverse.

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Speaker 4: It's going to be great. It's going to be great.

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Speaker 3: And it's also it's really it's kind of tied into

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Speaker 3: this notion of how we were raised.

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Speaker 4: To look at films. It's kind of tied into our question.

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Speaker 3: But I wanted to ask before we get to that

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Speaker 3: kind of how how do you see your own relationship

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Speaker 3: with film? Like do you love movies? Do you only

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Speaker 3: watch them at home? Do you love going to the theater?

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Speaker 5: Like?

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Speaker 3: Do you what is your relationship with film as a

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Speaker 3: filmmaker and reviewer?

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Speaker 5: All of the above with that, but I one of

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Speaker 5: my pre pandemic alone time things that I lost for

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Speaker 5: a second was I love going to see a movie

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Speaker 5: by myself. We have an art film house here in

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Speaker 5: Nashville called the Bellcourt, and it is my favorite thing

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Speaker 5: to go alone and watch a really cool film. They

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Speaker 5: still they show things on thirty five millimeter film, you know,

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Speaker 5: pretty regularly. That's the last thing I saw there was

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Speaker 5: the last Tarantino film on thirty five milimeter. And I

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Speaker 5: absolutely I love movies. I love I mean, I love

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Speaker 5: making them, I love talking about them. I love going

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Speaker 5: to see them and I love just sitting on the

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Speaker 5: couch and watching some big, cheesy Hollywood thing too.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and we did this.

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Speaker 3: We're the same way, like it takes all kinds and

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Speaker 3: I I'm just a movie I'm just a fan of film.

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Speaker 3: I don't it doesn't always have to be high falutin.

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Speaker 3: I love a good movie, and I think going to

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Speaker 3: the movies by yourself is It's the one thing that

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Speaker 3: I haven't done since the pandemic, since Lockdown has kind

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Speaker 3: of ended, I still haven't been back to this.

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Speaker 4: And I miss it.

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Speaker 5: Done so me too. I've done it once and it's

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Speaker 5: something I used to do weekly.

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Speaker 4: What did you see when you went.

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Speaker 5: Everything everywhere all at once?

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Speaker 2: Oh that's a good one.

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Speaker 5: See.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to see that the theater and I missed it,

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Speaker 3: so I washed it at home. But now I feel

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Speaker 3: like I want to go see Bansheet the Banshee's of Innisharin,

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Speaker 3: and I'm trying to like psych myself up to go

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Speaker 3: back to a theater to see it because I just

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Speaker 3: miss it because so much of the movie experience for

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Speaker 3: me is stuffing my face.

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Speaker 4: So if I'm like I could My friends.

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Speaker 3: Are like, just go and wear a mask, You'll be fine,

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Speaker 3: And I'm like, no, because then I can't have like

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Speaker 3: three hot dogs or right.

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Speaker 2: I think that's a big part of the experience for me.

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Speaker 5: I have. I just got the Omicron boosters, so I

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Speaker 5: feel invincible.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is when I should have gone right after

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Speaker 3: I got the boot. Have you gone over to a

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Speaker 3: new card yet? Because I just did that the last

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Speaker 3: time I got a booster, and it was very exciting.

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Speaker 5: No, but my card is falling apart.

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Speaker 4: They'll give you a new one.

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Speaker 5: I didn't know that, yeah, because.

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Speaker 3: I was like, hey, as a classic nerd, I'm really

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Speaker 3: excited to be the best student at getting my booster,

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Speaker 3: and I need a new card. And the lady was

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Speaker 3: at CVS was like, who cares, I take it, take

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Speaker 3: your card and get go sit down and let this

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Speaker 3: ten year old give you your shot.

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Speaker 4: Who gets a shit?

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Speaker 2: But you can just get a laminat or just laminate

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Speaker 2: your cards. We need a lamination.

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Speaker 5: We need a passport book of vaccines now.

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Speaker 4: Yes, Oh, I would fill it so fast.

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Speaker 2: I can't stop.

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Speaker 3: Getting boosted because every time I leave my house, I'm like,

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Speaker 3: I think they need a booster. You guys are still

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Speaker 3: pretty gross. Well, Millie, would you like to read our question?

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Speaker 3: We have such a good one from and again we

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Speaker 3: love and appreciate all questions, but Stephanie cannot stop sending

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Speaker 3: us non stop hits for emails, and I still infiltrate

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Speaker 3: this family. I will join your family, Stephanie at some point.

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Speaker 1: Yes, she sends us so many bangers it's really hard

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Speaker 1: to choose sometimes. Now, Okay, so there's kind of a

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Speaker 1: lot of different things going on in this question though,

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Speaker 1: to be honest, the very beginning of it is shocking

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Speaker 1: enough to just talk about because I think this concept

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Speaker 1: is wild. But we were gonna obviously get Kevin Away

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Speaker 1: in on it. So this is a question from Stephanie,

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Speaker 1: of course, and it starts like this, Dear Milly and Danielle.

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Speaker 1: When my husband was a teenager, a video store in

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Speaker 1: his neighborhood went out of business and his mom bought

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Speaker 1: out their inventory.

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Speaker 4: I mean, tell me everything about this family. Truth.

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Speaker 3: I can't stop saying, I love this family. Who is

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Speaker 3: this mom?

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Speaker 1: I can't even imagine having a mom that would do that, Like,

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Speaker 1: I just can't. Okay, because of this, he has seen

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Speaker 1: pretty much every erotic drama slash thriller ever made cut

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Speaker 1: to present day US watching Zandally, It's terrible. And who

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Speaker 1: thought Judge Reinhold in an erotic thriller was a good idea?

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Speaker 1: We wondered what happened to the erotic thriller? They've kind

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Speaker 1: of vanished if they were to make a comeback, who

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Speaker 1: do you think would be the next erotic thriller?

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Speaker 2: King?

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Speaker 1: I don't think Michael Douglas would be up for it,

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Speaker 1: No pun intended. Do you have any erotic thriller favorites? Sorry,

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Speaker 1: that's a lot of questions. Feel free to answer all

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Speaker 1: or one or none. Love you both so much, Stephanie.

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Speaker 4: That is a lot of questions.

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Speaker 3: And I truly Judge Reinhold was never and you know

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Speaker 3: that my tastes are extremely they vacillate wildly, But Judge

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Speaker 3: Rylholds somehow never made the cut for me when it

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Speaker 3: comes to eroticism.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so I had to google Sandily, I feel like

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Speaker 1: I've heard about it, heard of it. The first thing

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Speaker 1: that pops up is Judge rine Hold in this really

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Speaker 1: insane mustache, and Nicholas Cage is also there with a mustard.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So okay, that's cocaine made a lot of decisions

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Speaker 3: for us, and it wasn't always for the best.

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Speaker 2: But I do love this notion of like, first of.

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Speaker 4: All, erotic thriller.

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Speaker 3: What does that mean to you, guys, Because if you're

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Speaker 3: horny enough, anything can be an erotic thriller.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember the era of.

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Speaker 5: Cinemax, like late at night cinemax? Do you think that

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Speaker 5: that trend had something to do with that because things

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Speaker 5: are not as provocative as they maybe were in the eighties,

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Speaker 5: you know, and like late at night you could sneak

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Speaker 5: out into the living room after mom and dad went

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Speaker 5: to bed.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, my grandmother used to. I grew up

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Speaker 3: with my grandmother and she used to constantly fall asleep

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Speaker 3: in front of the TV. So if I went downstairs

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Speaker 3: at night sometimes I'd be like, why is my grandma

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Speaker 3: watching porn?

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Speaker 2: Like what is going on?

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Speaker 3: Because she was watching a movie on cinemax and then

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Speaker 3: the magic how We're turned over and all of a sudden,

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Speaker 3: everyone's naked.

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Speaker 4: I totally remember that.

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Speaker 5: But I wonder if we had something to do with

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Speaker 5: like maybe that seeped into more you know, legitimate movies

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Speaker 5: in some way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we used to call it skin Amax. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you guys called it skin Maax, of course,

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Speaker 1: but there was. That is what I think of when

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Speaker 1: I think of erotic thriller is my experience like of

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Speaker 1: cable TV Red Shoe Diaries, remember the Red Shoe Diaries, Uh,

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Speaker 1: skin Amax, Like even HBO, like really late at night,

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Speaker 1: we're always showing these like sleazy like it always took

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Speaker 1: place like New Orleans or Jamaica or something.

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Speaker 2: It's like people in like.

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Speaker 1: Linen and they're like, you know, everyone's fucking and you're

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Speaker 1: just like, oh my god, this is too crazy. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's what I when I think of the term

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Speaker 1: erotic thriller, I think exactly of what Kevin said, so totally.

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Speaker 5: But you don't. You don't think of like those like

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Speaker 5: that era of like basic instinct movies. I mean that

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Speaker 5: was kind of.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like that kind of gave way to that

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Speaker 3: more like more provocative. I think that the mainstream film

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Speaker 3: erotic thriller was meant to be more titillating and provocative

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Speaker 3: because like, we have real stars showing you their parts. Now,

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Speaker 3: it's not just like some ladies from the casting the

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Speaker 3: casting call we sent out. It's like Sharon Stone and

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Speaker 3: all these like big deal people, and I think that really,

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Speaker 3: I think they they also tried to market sex in

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Speaker 3: a way that was very like they thought they were

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Speaker 3: doing something really strange and evocative, and I'm like, you

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Speaker 3: don't even know the half of it.

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Speaker 4: And I'm a virgin and I know more than this.

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Speaker 3: So it's god Like, it was kind of weird to

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Speaker 3: see like what they thought was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 3: it's so daring, like he took her whole top off.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it was like, you know, we talked

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Speaker 1: about this movie in a previous episode, but Body Heat

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Speaker 1: with Kathleen Turner and then you know, you have basic instincts.

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Speaker 1: I think that's probably like maybe the biggest erotic thriller

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Speaker 1: that I can think of, movie wise, although I do

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Speaker 1: love Sliver. Do you remember Sliver with the and I

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Speaker 1: watched it because you be forty did the song from it,

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Speaker 1: so I was like into the song. But then you know,

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Speaker 1: you have all the DePaul Brian de Palma movies and stuff,

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Speaker 1: and I mean I remember Lynn Andrea and then Body

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Speaker 1: of Evidence with Madonna and William Dafoe.

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, a lot of that. Do you remember Angel

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Speaker 5: Heart with and Bill Cosby was very upset.

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Speaker 3: Apparently He's like, I'm out here literally raping people, but

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Speaker 3: I'm so mad that you showed parts of yours on

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Speaker 3: this movie.

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Speaker 2: It like almost ended her.

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Speaker 4: She did that movie, I remember.

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Speaker 5: And I kind of do, but I mean, she sort

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Speaker 5: of disappeared after that.

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Speaker 4: She disappeared for a while, but she was.

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Speaker 3: She was with Leny Kravitz having a great time raising

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Speaker 3: beautiful babies.

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00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:02,680
Speaker 4: But yeah, it was That's the thing, like there was.

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Speaker 3: Never really a line and you didn't know that you

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00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:09,439
Speaker 3: crossed it back then until something like that happened, like

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Speaker 3: where somebody was like, oh, this is too much. We

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Speaker 3: can't not not a different world, Lisa Bonett, we can't

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Speaker 3: see this. And it was always so like arbitrary. I

443
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:20,920
Speaker 3: felt like it was just so arbitrary what qualified and

444
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,000
Speaker 3: who was able to even be in that world from

445
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 3: an acting and they never And we've Millie and I

446
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:29,800
Speaker 3: have talked about this a lot, but we appreciate that. Sorry,

447
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 3: my cat is on my lap and it's just like

448
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:36,960
Speaker 3: a creepy tail crossing my chest every once. But he

449
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 3: has a lot to say about erotic thrillers. But there's

450
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,040
Speaker 3: something we talk about this all the time. How we

451
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:46,280
Speaker 3: really appreciate the modern day donaissance, Like now they're actually

452
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:48,040
Speaker 3: showing like full frontal.

453
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:49,920
Speaker 4: Mail and and butts.

454
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,399
Speaker 5: There's not a penis in it now, thanks you, and.

455
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:54,679
Speaker 4: Nor should it be.

456
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm talking directly to you, peacock, how dare

457
00:21:58,119 --> 00:21:59,200
Speaker 3: you have cock in your name?

458
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,120
Speaker 2: And I have one?

459
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 3: L But it's like that was also so much not

460
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,680
Speaker 3: it was like so straight centered and female centered back

461
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:09,359
Speaker 3: then as well.

462
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,159
Speaker 4: I quite qualified as the erotic thriller.

463
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 3: So I kind of nowadays like if I'm When I

464
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 3: was looking at my list and kind of thinking about

465
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 3: this question, I was like, hmmm, what was the role

466
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 3: of men back in the day in these films because

467
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,120
Speaker 3: they didn't really allow them much room to be sexy

468
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 3: like it was.

469
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was actually gonna say, I'm I know about

470
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 5: all these films, but I haven't seen most of them

471
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 5: because in that era, I was a young, closeted gay

472
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:37,159
Speaker 5: man and there wasn't a lot of appeal for me.

473
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,400
Speaker 5: It's like there's a man, there's a woman. It's gonna get.

474
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 2: Toxic, Like I don't know, someone's gonna die.

475
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,159
Speaker 5: Yeah, Sharon Stone's gonna flash her thing at the camera,

476
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 5: like I just see. It's like the appeal wasn't there

477
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 5: for me. So I'm not saying.

478
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:54,680
Speaker 3: No, I'm right there with you, like it really wasn't.

479
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,159
Speaker 3: Once I saw one or two, I was kind of like,

480
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 3: I get it. I don't really need to dig into

481
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 3: this this genre too much because it really wasn't very titillating,

482
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 3: you know. I found more more titillation and like the

483
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 3: back of the bus, the back of the school bus,

484
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:11,880
Speaker 3: there was much more raunchy shit going on.

485
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 5: Who are those movies geared towards? Who's the target audience

486
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 5: for an erotic thriller?

487
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 4: I think it was like the middle aged mom.

488
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 1: Truly, yeah, I did, And that's kind of like what

489
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 1: I was thinking in terms of them. I mean, Stephanie

490
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,680
Speaker 1: has said that she believes that they have vanished and

491
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 1: that are the will they make a comeback? I mean,

492
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 1: I actually think now there is more nostalgia for erotic

493
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 1: thrillers than ever.

494
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 2: I don't know if they're.

495
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 1: Making erotic thriller films, mostly because a they're only making

496
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 1: certain types of films now and they're not geared towards

497
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 1: adults adults normally. I mean, it's like that's what I

498
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,200
Speaker 1: think the erotic thriller was was an adult genre, right

499
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 1: for adults, movies for adults. And I feel like these

500
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 1: days you might see you know, eroticly charged television series,

501
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 1: but not like a movie necessarily because they're just not

502
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 1: making they're not making films for like that market as

503
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 1: much as they used to in the eighties and nineties, right, So,

504
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 1: but it used to be like.

505
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,880
Speaker 3: The ones that were geared towards that weren't geared towards

506
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 3: the middle aged mom were kind of like swim Fan,

507
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 3: where I'm like, this is too young, I don't care

508
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 3: about any of these people, or like like poison ivy

509
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 3: is always going to be a killer. But you know,

510
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 3: there was never really there was always like a very

511
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,639
Speaker 3: specific audience for each film, and I don't think they

512
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 3: ever really quite I don't think Hollywood quite knows what

513
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 3: to do with and erotic thriller, right.

514
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: But there's so much like out there, like in terms

515
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,399
Speaker 1: of like there's a lot of film criticism and a

516
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 1: lot of like you know, sort of like re examination

517
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 1: of these old movies because I mean, I think it's

518
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,199
Speaker 1: because of us of people our age who remember like

519
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 1: going like remember that like weird sexy like Sharon Stone

520
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 1: movie or you know the Red Shoot Diaries, like what

521
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 1: was that all about? And then people rediscover things. But yeah,

522
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,239
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know who would be the

523
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 1: next king. I don't know if they're even gonna make

524
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 1: them in that way.

525
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 3: Again, we would be great if it was somebody so unexpected,

526
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 3: if it was like like.

527
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:26,679
Speaker 2: The My Pillow guys, they don't kidd it. God, Like,

528
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:27,199
Speaker 2: I don't know.

529
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 4: If I'm trying to think like who would be the next.

530
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 5: That's the name of the movie too, just my pillow.

531
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 1: My pillow and there's like a dagger slicing a pillow

532
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,679
Speaker 1: and it's you know, there's like a high heel in

533
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:40,439
Speaker 1: the background or.

534
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 4: A loafer in the background.

535
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 3: But I do think that that in terms of erotic

536
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 3: thriller favorites, because I really try to think, like what

537
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 3: were the ones that I love? If I can't think

538
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 3: of who the next erotic thriller king would be. Do

539
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 3: you remember when Bound came out with Jennifer Tilley.

540
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 5: And Gea Kashan, I did like actually.

541
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 4: Blew people away.

542
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,199
Speaker 3: They're like, oh my god, it's a I thought, And

543
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 3: it was a beautiful movie, like I thought it was

544
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,640
Speaker 3: really well shot, and it's just it's got so much

545
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 3: merit in so many different ways. But that's a great

546
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 3: erotic thriller for me. And I also think I was wondering,

547
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 3: I don't want your opinion on this guy's but a

548
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 3: single white female and eroticyriller, I think, so thank you,

549
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 3: thank you, because it's like it's out of the ordinary,

550
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 3: and they tried to market it as like just a

551
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 3: straight up thriller, and I'm.

552
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 4: Like, but she's in love with her?

553
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 2: Can we talk about that? God?

554
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,199
Speaker 1: Even's Beyonce was in an erotic thriller, right, she was

555
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 1: in what was that movie?

556
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 2: Was it called Obsessed?

557
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: I think it was like Idris Elba and Beyonce and

558
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:42,360
Speaker 1: think it came out and like, I want to say

559
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 1: it's the two thousands, but I came out recently. Yeah,

560
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 1: but I was like, wow, Beyonce even has made an

561
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:48,479
Speaker 1: erotic thriller.

562
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 2: Who I think that's that's what it's become now.

563
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 3: It's become like a weird wast station between till legitimacy,

564
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 3: like I can be also very sexy and you're like,

565
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 3: all right, I get it, but.

566
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 5: Not to bring it back to the pillow guy. But

567
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 5: I always think of jokes a minute too late. So

568
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 5: the box, the VHS box, it says my pillow and

569
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 5: then there's like a dagger in the pillow and the

570
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 5: tagline is, uh, the erection was stolen.

571
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 6: Like.

572
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:29,159
Speaker 1: Somebody doesn't photoshop that ship and put it in our inbox.

573
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 2: By the end of the week, I'm gonna be pissed off.

574
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 2: I'm just out there.

575
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 4: By the end of the interview, I'm gonna be pissed off.

576
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 3: And then just a little tiny made in America logo

577
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 3: on the bottom the erection was stolen. I mean, we

578
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 3: can just end the podcast now we are done. We

579
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 3: did it everyone, Thank you so much. We got there.

580
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 3: Holy shit, that is hilarious.

581
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 4: The erection with I might not ever recover.

582
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 3: I might not ever recover. That is the erotic thriller

583
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 3: we need. Yes, I truly, I really have a hard

584
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,360
Speaker 3: time thinking of like, who would be the next erotic

585
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 3: thriller star from this generation, because they're gonna always try

586
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 3: to make it like like Harry Styles.

587
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 4: I just watched Don't Worry Darling, and I'm just like.

588
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 5: It has to be. It has to be. I think

589
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 5: they have to be middle aged people yes, there's something

590
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:27,439
Speaker 5: to it.

591
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 4: Like I remember remember that movie.

592
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:35,199
Speaker 3: Unfaithful with Richard Gear and Diane Diane Lane. Yep, And

593
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 3: I feel like that was another big deal of film

594
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 3: that's kind of in the erotic thriller camp because they're like,

595
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 3: oh my god, these are actual people playing their actual age.

596
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 3: And I'm like, yeah, let's get some who's I don't know,

597
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 3: I'm kind of in a weird grandpa sex time of

598
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 3: my life, Like, who's a good weird grandpa an erotic thriller?

599
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 2: I know?

600
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm gonna say Chris Pine again, let's put

601
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: Chris Pine in an erotic thriller?

602
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, he's too pretty, He's.

603
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 5: So I think what it doesn't work with young people

604
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 5: because part of the dynamic is a little bit of

605
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 5: complexity of you have to be like at a place

606
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 5: in life like young loves wouldn't work, like if someone's

607
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 5: gonna go crazy and in the way that that's gonna work,

608
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 5: they you have to be over forty. I think I

609
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 5: don't think it could work. Oh, young people.

610
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 3: You need to have like a little a good mix

611
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 3: of like desperation and exhaustion.

612
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 2: Yes, I get that's like the erotic thriller math.

613
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: Yes, is Mark Ruffalo? What do you what do we

614
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 1: think of a Mark Ruffalo type?

615
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 3: Yes, I can see it. I can see it. He

616
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 3: would be very like he does that confuse face a lot,

617
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 3: like so I can kind of see like that morphing

618
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 3: into a sex face.

619
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: Yeah sure, yeah, well but it's also to your point,

620
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: I think too. It's also you got to have a

621
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: willingness to want to be sexy, which I also think

622
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: is is not a thing that young guys are really

623
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: putting out there as much like they want to be

624
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 1: funny and they want to be you know, they're like hot,

625
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 1: but they want to be funny too, Whereas I feel

626
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: like Michael Douglas was like, I am doing it in

627
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: this movie and I don't give a shit what you

628
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: think about me, Like I have no I'm not trying to,

629
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: you know, diffuse it with some funny joke or like

630
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 1: a hahha thing. He's like, no, I'm legit sexy and

631
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 1: this is going down, and we need somebody at that

632
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: level that's not afraid, you know, to like show a

633
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 1: little ass and to just like go for.

634
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 2: It, you know.

635
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 3: So I ask do we want to see at that age, right,

636
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 3: now too. That's the that's the most important question which

637
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 3: aging actors ask.

638
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 5: Do we want it's gonna look good? With that scene

639
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 5: where it's like a wide shot and there's like a

640
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 5: sheet sort of covering them but not really like like

641
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 5: a cheek pops out of this sheet.

642
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 2: He's like a little.

643
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 4: In the crack.

644
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 3: The crack eats a little bit of it listens, and

645
00:30:58,040 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 3: it can't be someone like Tom Cruise.

646
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 2: He's like, I'm at the gym for twelve hours a day.

647
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 3: I want an actual old ass, like actual, like I

648
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 3: sit on this all day when I'm trying to figure

649
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 3: out how to zoom with my grandkids.

650
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: Like who, like you mean like JK Simmons. Do you

651
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: want to see JK Simmons?

652
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 2: Yes, Yes, I.

653
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 4: Want the bearded JK.

654
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 3: Simmons who looks like he just crawled out of a

655
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 3: wheat field, just like.

656
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 2: Give us that ass. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

657
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 5: I don't really know. I mean, I've never really looked,

658
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 5: but I feel like he probably has a very like

659
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 5: perky ass that's based on nothing.

660
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 1: Did he show his ass in OZ? Did you guys

661
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: see OZ? When that show was out?

662
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 2: I never watched it?

663
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 6: Oh, my, Oh my god, Wild Wild I it is

664
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 6: like it's jail it's a jail house drama, but it

665
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 6: is an erotic thriller if if you want to get

666
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 6: down to brass tacks, it's an erotic thriller for me.

667
00:31:57,960 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 2: But yeah, he was.

668
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: He was like, that was the first time I really

669
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: like noticed him and he plays a scary dude. And

670
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: I was like, they showed a lot of male nudity

671
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: in that show. And I'm like, I wonder if he

672
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: got naked. I'm gonna have to go back and wash it.

673
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 4: Somebody will let us know.

674
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 3: I bet it's already in the inbox where someone's like, yes,

675
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 3: season two, episode four at the time stamp, Oh my god, Okay,

676
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 3: our producer just put a link.

677
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 2: I'm afraid to look at this link.

678
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 5: Is this.

679
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 3: That is?

680
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 2: Oh he's not making it, oz. This is pre Farmer's

681
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 2: insurance commercial.

682
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 3: So look, let's get a Martin Sheen. He's not too old, Like,

683
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 3: let's get a Martin Sheen ass out there. Martin Sheen

684
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 3: is pretty old. Why hasn't Morgan Freeman showed his ass ever?

685
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 3: Talk about a career ender right when you're ready to die,

686
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 3: just like I'm going out showing ass.

687
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 4: The Voice of.

688
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 2: God isn't an erotic thriller? Hey, where do things that have happened?

689
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 4: You got to hit all audiences you don't know?

690
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 3: Oh well, I could genuinely do this all day and

691
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 3: then by the end of it, I would be on

692
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:18,959
Speaker 3: eighteen watch lists.

693
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 4: But I think we have taken up so.

694
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 3: Much of your time. Kevin, you are just again a dream.

695
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 3: I absolutely adore you. I think you should come back anytime.

696
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 3: I will, But I want to also let people know again,

697
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 3: like you are on tour. It is December thirteenth when

698
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 3: this episode is being released, and you're on tour, and

699
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,719
Speaker 3: you're also going to the UK, like you are really

700
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 3: doing it?

701
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 2: Are you organizing all of this yourself? Like do you

702
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 2: have a company helping?

703
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 5: I just want to know the nitty gritty, know the

704
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 5: UK tourist through Live Nation, but I have an agent

705
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 5: of course. And like, of course we're adding I'm going

706
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 5: to do probably about fifty cities and twenty twenty so

707
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 5: we're still we just started adding stuff, uh for next year.

708
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,359
Speaker 5: So uh what we what we currently have is on

709
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 5: my website, but stay tuned because we're adding a whole

710
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 5: lot more.

711
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:16,359
Speaker 3: Kevin James Thornton dot Com for shoes and merch because

712
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 3: your merch is very funny. Yeah, and really good, really

713
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 3: just and I can't wait to see you. I'm gonna

714
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 3: pick I'll pick one. I'll pick a date. MILLI and

715
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 3: I will we'll go there together. Maybe we'll come see

716
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 3: you in the UK? Are we that fancy?

717
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 5: Where are you guys? Are you in the same city?

718
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 1: No, I'm in Atlanta, so I can actually drive to Nashville.

719
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: If you ever play Nashville, you do Zany's, right, isn't

720
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: that the club that?

721
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, I have sort of a residency at Zany's. I'm

722
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 5: actually I'm actually working out my new material there, so.

723
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 3: I don't Oh, yeah, we're going, We're going. I'm in

724
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,319
Speaker 3: I'm in the woods. I'm in upstate New York, but

725
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 3: I'm not too far from Syracuse.

726
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 5: In December, I'm.

727
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 4: Gonna be there. I'm gonna be there.

728
00:34:58,200 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 3: You're gonna just look in the audience and be like,

729
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 3: oh my god, she's here again. I thought she said

730
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 3: she lived up state New York. What is she doing

731
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 3: in Pennsylvania.

732
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: If you see two women completely doused in shamalahamala pertuum,

733
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 1: then you'll be like those two.

734
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 4: Do you have people coming to your shows with like

735
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 4: head to toe? I love that.

736
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 2: I love that you.

737
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 3: There's never I hate to put things in this context,

738
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 3: but there's truly never been someone more deserving of the

739
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 3: absolutely organic fame that you have, because I think that

740
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 3: it's you're just so naturally gifted and we've just had

741
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 3: a blast. So come back anytime. We'll be haunting your audiences.

742
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 3: Everyone else should as well. Please go get tickets. I've

743
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,240
Speaker 3: seen some of your clips and I just I cannot

744
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:51,240
Speaker 3: get over how truly hilarious you are. It extends beyond

745
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 3: the boundaries of internet.

746
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,759
Speaker 4: Guys, go see it in real life. That's where the

747
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,359
Speaker 4: real magic is. Yes, Kevin, thank you so so much

748
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 4: for joining us.

749
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:01,720
Speaker 5: You're welcome.

750
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 2: Kevin is the greatest, honestly the best.

751
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 3: I just I always appreciate someone who can always make

752
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 3: me laugh.

753
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 4: It's a gift.

754
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,760
Speaker 1: No, he's super cool, super sweet. We're very very honored

755
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 1: to have him. And hopefully we got down to the question.

756
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 3: I don't want to disappoint Stephanie. Stephanie, I hope we

757
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:27,800
Speaker 3: hope we did. We brought it home for you because

758
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 3: we we love your brain.

759
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: We do and as always, if you want to email us,

760
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 1: I saw you about at gmail dot com.

761
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 2: So are you ready to do a theme this week?

762
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:40,399
Speaker 2: I'm ready to do our theme.

763
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 3: I'll tell them what it is, but I want you

764
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:43,879
Speaker 3: to explain it because it came from something you said.

765
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 3: So our theme this week is they hate Our Secret Knowledge,

766
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 3: and that comes from an episode where Millie and I

767
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 3: were talking about astrology and our love of astrology and

768
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 3: I just loved it so much and I think it's

769
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,879
Speaker 3: gonna be a fun thing. So what are your thoughts

770
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,280
Speaker 3: on what you said about they Hate our Secret Knowledge

771
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 3: and how it applies to this theme?

772
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 1: Well, you know, part of the reason why I said that,

773
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 1: First of all, I was on one.

774
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 2: Let's just put that out there.

775
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 1: I was on one, and you know how it is

776
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: when you're on one, you just kind of say stuff

777
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 1: and then later you're like, I forgot everything.

778
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 2: That I said.

779
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 1: But I I think I you know, when it comes

780
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 1: down to it, I feel like, you know, part of

781
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 1: part of what that was in reference to was just

782
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 1: this idea of, like, you know, the people who get

783
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 1: like really extra crazy and mean about people who like astrology,

784
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 1: almost like it offends them in some kind of way,

785
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 1: and I just was like, fuck that, you know what,

786
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: Like they don't get us, they hate our secret knowledge,

787
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: they hate like us, you know, interpreting things in a

788
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 1: way that they don't interpret things right, And anybody that's

789
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,240
Speaker 1: threatened by that has a little bit of an issue

790
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 1: in my opinion. So Danielle, I think came when we

791
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 1: were doing you know, themes and stuff.

792
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 2: She was like, Oh, I like that term. Why don't

793
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 2: we try to make a theme out of it?

794
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: And I feel like for the for the theme, I

795
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: think we were really interested in, like looking at movies

796
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 1: about secrets, right, yeah, and familial secrets and the kind

797
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: of stuff that doesn't get talked about within families really exactly.

798
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, just there's something something about secret knowledge made me

799
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 3: talk to my therapist about this one. But something about

800
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 3: the secret knowledge made me think about families, just thinking about,

801
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 3: you know, how we develop that knowledge, or how the

802
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 3: things that we keep to ourselves that we don't think

803
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 3: is applicable to the rest of the world that we

804
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 3: live in. So I just kind of instantly flashed to

805
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 3: a couple of documentaries and things that are just really

806
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 3: fascinating to me more than you know, actual produced films,

807
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:54,760
Speaker 3: and so I think we picked a couple of good ones.

808
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 3: But just know that we I am not a professional

809
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 3: true crime person. I am not an amateur true crime person.

810
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 3: I also did not make any of these movies, and

811
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 3: I don't necessarily have I'm not in the community that

812
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,320
Speaker 3: has a specific language or a specific way of doing things.

813
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 3: We will do things the way we always do things,

814
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 3: which is non offensively. It's not our goal to offend anyone.

815
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,839
Speaker 3: It's not our goal to try to solve anything by

816
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 3: discussing these films. And it's also we're just genuinely taking

817
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 3: the information from the documentaries at face value as people

818
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 3: who are just watching these films, and I think that

819
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 3: that's you know, there are people who take it a

820
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 3: little bit further, of course, but we're just you know,

821
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 3: I'm a person who just watches the documentary and if

822
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,839
Speaker 3: i want more information, I'll dig into it on my own.

823
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 3: But I'm not going to make a federal case out

824
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 3: of it.

825
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, look, I mean my documentary, I mean,

826
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,439
Speaker 1: I'm going first this Week is a big old true

827
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,720
Speaker 1: crime documentary that came out a couple of years ago.

828
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: It has since turned into a lot of different things.

829
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 1: Seeing any of the other things. Let's just say that.

830
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think it was important for me, I think,

831
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: especially this week, to just reiterate this idea.

832
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 2: That we are a film podcasts. We're not a true

833
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 2: crime podcast.

834
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 1: I know it's hard when you're not discussing works of

835
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 1: fiction because there are real people involved and there's just.

836
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 2: Higher stakes with that. But like, I will.

837
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 1: Be using my time this week to talk about the

838
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,760
Speaker 1: work the documentary that was made by Aaron Lee Carr.

839
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:33,399
Speaker 1: It's very interesting, textured, provocative. It's a film and I'm

840
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: a film programmer, so I'm going to talk about it

841
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 1: as a film and you know, I guarantee you guys

842
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 1: will know more about the crime than I do. And

843
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: like the other ip that was made, i mean there

844
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: was like a TV show and everything, so you know,

845
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 1: I just want to put, you know, put that out

846
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:53,720
Speaker 1: there that you know, we're we're doing something a little

847
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 1: different than maybe somebody else would.

848
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 5: Let's just say that.

849
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 3: But yeah, I'm excited to talk about these. I think

850
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 3: these are also just bear men's These are just great films.

851
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm excited to talk about them.

852
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and both made by women, which we love. Okay,

853
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: So I'm going first. Are you ready to get into it?

854
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:16,879
Speaker 2: Can you tell them it's like the end of the year.

855
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 3: We're just like, we're like the tired mom who's like,

856
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 3: just eat your peas and go.

857
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 1: To bed, Like, just talk with that fucking movie and

858
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:25,439
Speaker 1: let's move on.

859
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 2: I'll be sitting down in the middle of the mall.

860
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 2: Just get your shopping done, leave me the fuck alone.

861
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 3: I love that the mom sitting down on the mall

862
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 3: energy that we're braying right now.

863
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 2: So like, damn, you haven't even talked those what the

864
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 2: fucking movies are? Can you calm down? If anyone you're

865
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 2: going listening Daniel's favorite phrase.

866
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 3: Can that be our next T shirt? If anyone's still listening?

867
00:41:55,680 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 2: Well, so my movie for the theme they eight.

868
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 1: Our Secret Knowledge is a movie that was released in

869
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, directed by Aaron Lee Carr and it's called Mommy,

870
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:08,240
Speaker 1: Dead and Dearest.

871
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 3: People thought of us as the sweetest mother, daughter, best

872
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 3: people in the.

873
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 1: World right off the bat. Do you know exactly where

874
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 1: you were when you first saw this documentary?

875
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:24,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was with you, Yes, we watched it together.

876
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 1: Yep, we were at April Richardson's house in West Hollywood, California.

877
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 1: And the only thing that I remember from that night

878
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 1: was that we could not stop talking about it after

879
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: we watched it.

880
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 5: It was huge.

881
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: It was a huge, huge documentary when it came out.

882
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:46,439
Speaker 1: And I want to talk a little bit about Aaron

883
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 1: Le Carr for a second, because you know, she's the

884
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 1: documentarian who made this film, and she is the daughter

885
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:57,479
Speaker 1: of David Carr, who was the legendary New York Times writer.

886
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 1: And she's great. She worked for Vice, and she's worked

887
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,240
Speaker 1: for Vox, and she has directed several documentaries for HBO,

888
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 1: including this one. And I think the reason why this

889
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 1: documentary has stayed with me for all these years is

890
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 1: probably like a couple different things. Number one, of course,

891
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 1: it's a story about family secrets, right, which is the

892
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 1: reason why I picked it for the theme. But it's

893
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 1: also a story about a mother and a daughter, which

894
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 1: is always going to pull me in, obviously, being that

895
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: I'm a.

896
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:31,439
Speaker 3: Daughter, and something that our films common for sure.

897
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I will say to that point, actually to

898
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 1: two points, both the family secrets and the mother daughter thing.

899
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 1: I think as I've gotten older, both of these things

900
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 1: have become a lot more important to me in terms

901
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 1: of thinking about and talking about. I think that my

902
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: relationship with my family has definitely gotten deeper as I've aged,

903
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 1: and I think that's common, right, You get older people,

904
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 1: then your family start passing on and things get a

905
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 1: little bit more baked in for everybody, and so I

906
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 1: think about that point of my age where that's happening.

907
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 1: So it really has made me think a lot about

908
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 1: my family and my relationships with my parents and my

909
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: sister and aunts and uncles, but my mom especially. I

910
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 1: think it's just always as a daughter, or it's always

911
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 1: just front center, you're always gonna want to you're always

912
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,720
Speaker 1: thinking about something like that, right, But also family secrets,

913
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: because every family has them. Every single family has them. Yeah,

914
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:39,959
Speaker 1: And I feel like there's there's only if you if.

915
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 2: They haven't been addressed.

916
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 1: At some point you age into the reality of them,

917
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:49,720
Speaker 1: and they have to be addressed in some way. Whether

918
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 1: it's like productive or not, it gets it all comes

919
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 1: out in the.

920
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 2: Wash type of thing, you know what I mean.

921
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's either it's therapy you're working on yourself, or

922
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 3: you're just you know, you're struggling to have a relationship

923
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:01,359
Speaker 3: with someone that because of a secret you haven't been

924
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 3: able to like, it's just it always manifests itself in

925
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 3: a way that it has to at some point be discussed.

926
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

927
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: Absolutely, So that's what fascinates me about this particular documentary.

928
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 1: But also this documentary has lots to do with illness,

929
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 1: which I think, you know, I've talked about on previous

930
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 1: episodes about illness, and I just think it's a topic

931
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 1: that a lot of people think about. So there's just

932
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 1: a lot going on. I think that's why I wanted

933
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 1: to rewatch it again for this episode.

934
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 3: And something that I always that I really love about

935
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:36,400
Speaker 3: this documentary too, is in something that I think we

936
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 3: talked about a lot after we watched it together, is

937
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 3: that's it's more sympathetic than I expected it to be,

938
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,799
Speaker 3: and not in a way that excuses the crime, but

939
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 3: in a way that also it kind of sets you

940
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 3: up to feel like, oh my God, like I understand

941
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,359
Speaker 3: more than I thought I would about how this crime

942
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:53,880
Speaker 3: came to be.

943
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, you know, after reading a couple of

944
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 1: interviews with Aaron Lee Carr, the filmmaker, I think that

945
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 1: that was her intention. I think she wanted to show

946
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: all the different complexities to the story, right, and so

947
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:10,319
Speaker 1: basically this documentary, it sort of begins in reverse. I mean,

948
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of people have seen it,

949
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 1: but if you have it, I'll just kind of, you know,

950
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,879
Speaker 1: kind of give you a little bit of synopsis.

951
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:19,800
Speaker 2: But it kind of begins in reverse.

952
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 4: You know.

953
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 2: It's a young woman at a police station. She's being

954
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:24,320
Speaker 2: told that her mother.

955
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 1: Is deceased by a detective, and she's obviously very distraught

956
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: and upset. But then the detective kind of starts going

957
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,840
Speaker 1: into a different direction with some of the questions that

958
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 1: he's asking her, and eventually it sort of revealed that

959
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 1: she might have had some involvement. And so as a viewer,

960
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 1: I mean, this is happening within the first like five

961
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 1: minutes of the film, and you're.

962
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 2: Like, wait a minute, what is going on here?

963
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:47,359
Speaker 6: Right?

964
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, But then you know, at that point, the film

965
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 1: kind of moves into the backstory, which is basically this

966
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:56,400
Speaker 1: young woman, her name is Gypsy Blanchard. Up until this

967
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 1: point that the film starts with, she was living with

968
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: her mother, her mother's name Dede. Gypsy had severe health issues.

969
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 1: You know, she had leukemia, muscular dystrophee. She was in

970
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:13,320
Speaker 1: a wheelchair, and the way that the document around folds

971
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 1: is that basically she had been in and out of

972
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: hospitals since she was a baby. Essentially she'd had many

973
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 1: many surgeries, she had a feeding tube, she was using

974
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 1: a breathing machine, and was you know, had a developmental condition.

975
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 1: And you know, they're just like showing all of this

976
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 1: footage from like home videos, but also just like photographs

977
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:41,359
Speaker 1: of their home. They show this picture of like a

978
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:45,720
Speaker 1: closet in their home and it's just filled with medicine bottles,

979
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 1: just like tons and tons of medication. They're showing like

980
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 1: medical records and lists of conditions that Gypsy had, and it's.

981
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:54,880
Speaker 2: Just quite extensive.

982
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 1: It's just very and you were, like, this is a

983
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 1: sick little girl. And so as it turns out like

984
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 1: her and her mother were Katrina survivors, Hurricane Katrina survivors,

985
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:07,799
Speaker 1: and they were relocated to Missouri where they were built

986
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 1: a house by one of the local charities. And there

987
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:13,799
Speaker 1: are different people from the family that are kind of

988
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 1: coming in to be interviewed, and one of them is

989
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 1: Gypsy's father, and it's revealed that him and her mother, Didi,

990
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 1: were married pretty young. I mean he said he was

991
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:26,839
Speaker 1: seventeen when they were married. And then were divorced, and

992
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:30,319
Speaker 1: the father was kind was remarried to someone else and

993
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:34,959
Speaker 1: was seeing Gypsy on occasion. But what ends up really

994
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: happening is that the film kind of lays out this

995
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:41,320
Speaker 1: idea that Deitie and Gypsy were basically inseparable, right because

996
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:46,919
Speaker 1: Gypsy required like around the clock care being as ill

997
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 1: as she was, and she wasn't in school, and you know,

998
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 1: they were being helped financially by neighbors and various organizations.

999
00:48:56,120 --> 00:49:00,399
Speaker 1: And one thing I love about this documentary is that

1000
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:05,839
Speaker 1: there is a lot of home video footage, interviews, there's

1001
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 1: a lot of paperwork. It's just it's it's got a

1002
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:10,839
Speaker 1: lot to it, which I think is really interesting. It

1003
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 1: makes the film very textured in that way. And so

1004
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: there's all this like home video footage of Gypsy and

1005
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: Deity going to their new house. They're on stage at

1006
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 1: benefit gala's they're going to Disney World, and you know,

1007
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 1: it's just hitting home like kind of what this situation is.

1008
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 3: And she uses a wheelchair like she's you know, she's

1009
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 3: fully dependent, fully dependent.

1010
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, And based on the interviews with the father,

1011
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 1: at the beginning of this documentary, he was still in Louisiana,

1012
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 1: where they're originally from, and it seems like he was

1013
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 1: a little kind of removed from what the actual situation was,

1014
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 1: and he was hearing a lot of information from Deity.

1015
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:57,800
Speaker 1: She had told him that she had a chromosome condition

1016
00:49:57,840 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 1: and she was going to die young. I mean, it

1017
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 1: was just like a lot of news to hear.

1018
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah.

1019
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 4: From the beginning.

1020
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 3: That was one of the more interesting things to me

1021
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 3: is that because he doesn't come across as an unsympathetic

1022
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 3: father who didn't want to be present and didn't love her,

1023
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:16,280
Speaker 3: it's that DeeDee really utilized the you know, gypsy's illnesses

1024
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 3: to keep him at arm's length, like, you know, don't

1025
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 3: talk to her too much and don't overwhelm her.

1026
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 4: And you know, you can.

1027
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 3: Kind of really see in his experience how he wanted

1028
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 3: desperately to be part of this kid's life and she

1029
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 3: just wouldn't let that. And there's a reason for it,

1030
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 3: but she wouldn't let that happen, even though he is

1031
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:36,799
Speaker 3: a Cajun tony hawk and can come through anytime.

1032
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 1: Got to say, I wholeheartedly agree, love the dad, Love

1033
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 1: the dad, And like I said in the documentary, he

1034
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 1: he's you know, he seems like a very easy going dude.

1035
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:57,840
Speaker 1: And love that accent, Love all the accents. Basically the

1036
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:00,760
Speaker 1: Louisiana accent is quite special.

1037
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 4: Beautiful.

1038
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:02,840
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1039
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:04,439
Speaker 2: So here's the thing.

1040
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:09,360
Speaker 1: So we're being set up with all this information, but

1041
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 1: then right as we're being presented all this, we discover

1042
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 1: that Gypsy actually wasn't sick or as sick as Dede

1043
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 1: ever claimed she was. She did not have cancer, she

1044
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 1: actually could walk, she had had surgeries and treatments that

1045
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 1: she didn't need, and that all of this might have

1046
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:37,400
Speaker 1: been orchestrated by Dede as either like a huge decades

1047
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 1: long financial scam or because she had munch Housen by proxy,

1048
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 1: or maybe even a bit of both. So this is

1049
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:49,360
Speaker 1: the secret, you know, of the film, is that this

1050
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 1: was something that Dede was keeping from her daughter.

1051
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 2: Right, and she didn't even tell her how old she was. Yeah,

1052
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 2: she didn't even tell her her real age. Yeah.

1053
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 1: There's a lot of Yeah, like I said, there's a

1054
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 1: lot of interviews, a lot of texts, messages, evidence, photos, paperwork,

1055
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 1: and there's interviews from it kind of everybody like neighbors, journalists,

1056
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 1: social workers, police and you know, basically it's the lawyer,

1057
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 1: her lawyer. Gypsy's lawyer was presenting all of this information

1058
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 1: to the father and his wife about like the links

1059
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:31,719
Speaker 1: to which Deanie was keeping this afloat, keeping this scam

1060
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 1: afloat right, changing doctors, providing all this kind of fake

1061
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:42,600
Speaker 1: historical medical information, and you know, it was just that

1062
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:45,640
Speaker 1: kind of bobbing and weaving that like nobody kind of

1063
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 1: knew what was really going on, and it's it was

1064
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 1: honestly shocking to me. Like when that part of the

1065
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 1: documentary rolls out, you're like, holy shit, Like, well.

1066
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 3: There's a moment where Michelle Dean, who's a freelance journalist

1067
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:02,839
Speaker 3: and who covered the story because they talked to people

1068
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:05,759
Speaker 3: throughout the film who were part of the story either

1069
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 3: by being experts or you know, neurologists and doctors. But

1070
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:14,840
Speaker 3: Michelle Dean said at one point flatly that the entire

1071
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 3: system failed Gypsy Rose, like nobody caught anything when there

1072
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 3: were like there are things set up, there are guidelines

1073
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 3: set up, there are goalposts set up, there are warnings

1074
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:27,080
Speaker 3: set up to prevent exactly this kind of thing. So

1075
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 3: it's a combination of DEDI was so good at the

1076
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 3: manipulation that she did. But also nobody caught this, even

1077
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:38,840
Speaker 3: doctors who said flat out said this could be Munchausen

1078
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:41,279
Speaker 3: by proxy, they didn't do anything about it. After that,

1079
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 3: it was kind of like I did my due diligence.

1080
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 3: You can't sue me because I'm pointing this out. Yeah,

1081
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 3: it's somebody else's problem, Like everyone failed this kid.

1082
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:51,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and.

1083
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:59,280
Speaker 1: Here's the thing, so to me, the part that comes after,

1084
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 1: which is basically the family. The interviews with the family,

1085
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 1: I mean, some of the info that they share about

1086
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:14,080
Speaker 1: Ddie was unreal to hear as a viewer, like even

1087
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 1: when I rewatched it, and like, these are people who

1088
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:17,560
Speaker 1: are real as hell.

1089
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 2: They are pulling zero punches. When they're talking about how

1090
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 2: bad of a person Dedie was.

1091
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 3: Her nephew is like, oh, she's evil, like straight out,

1092
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:28,319
Speaker 3: Like one of the first things he says, like.

1093
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:31,919
Speaker 2: Oh, she's she's a real evil leader. Listen, I love

1094
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 2: Dde's nephew.

1095
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:38,239
Speaker 1: He looks like he's in suicidal tendencies, the band's suicidal tendencies.

1096
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 1: And he's like, yo, she's weird, like weird and dark

1097
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 1: and she possibly had mental illness. But he he was

1098
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:52,800
Speaker 1: just like straight up like this lady you know, even

1099
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 1: raw Gypsy's father when he's interviewed in the documentary, he

1100
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:00,839
Speaker 1: was saying that even when they were married, like that,

1101
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 1: she was maybe into witchcraft and was into like dark

1102
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:06,879
Speaker 1: stuff and had a pet tarantula, which I always think

1103
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 1: is a nice little detail that got tucked in there.

1104
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:18,319
Speaker 1: But for my money, Dedie's father and stepmom were possibly

1105
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:22,920
Speaker 1: the wildest interview in this documentary, because the greatest like

1106
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:27,240
Speaker 1: this is the deceased father. So this is Dedie's father

1107
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:31,360
Speaker 1: and his new wife, you know, just older folks, and

1108
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:37,440
Speaker 1: they they were telling story after story about you know,

1109
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 1: Dedie was a took after her mom, like Dedie's mom

1110
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:46,320
Speaker 1: was a thief according to Dedie's father, and stole closed

1111
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:49,239
Speaker 1: at the laundrymat. That was what his wife had said,

1112
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:52,239
Speaker 1: that she was stealing clothes out of other people's you know,

1113
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 1: machines at the laundromat. But that basically Dedee's mother had

1114
00:55:57,680 --> 00:56:02,200
Speaker 1: fallen ill and that they believed that, like Datie's father

1115
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:06,359
Speaker 1: and his wife, that Dedie was poisoning her and like

1116
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 1: neglecting her and you know her not for yeah, And

1117
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:14,439
Speaker 1: they said that Ddy had written a bunch of bad

1118
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 1: checks and was just doing all kinds of bad things.

1119
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:21,040
Speaker 1: And again this is some the this is her father,

1120
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 1: her own father is saying this about her.

1121
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 3: Then she is the victim of like we haven't said

1122
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 3: this yet, but she's the victim of the crime.

1123
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 4: Like she ends up getting killed.

1124
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:35,000
Speaker 3: So this is a posthumous assessment of who she was

1125
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:38,800
Speaker 3: as a person, right, And they are not holding anything

1126
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 3: back and kind of set the stage to really explain

1127
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:50,239
Speaker 3: how Dede's whole life was built around being manipulative and

1128
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 3: being really kind of terrible to people. So even though

1129
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 3: she's the victim of this crime, she also was the

1130
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:58,240
Speaker 3: perpetrator of a lot of crimes.

1131
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 1: Right, And like, I mean they like I said, they

1132
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 1: pull no punches. They said that when she passed, like

1133
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:07,200
Speaker 1: none of the family wanted anything to do with her.

1134
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 1: And I mean, I think the line that I remember

1135
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:12,759
Speaker 1: the most was that they stood flush her ashes down

1136
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:13,719
Speaker 1: the toilet, which was.

1137
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 2: Crazy to hear.

1138
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 3: Edge every time I hear it, where they're like, I

1139
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 3: don't want to flush her down the toilet.

1140
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 4: Her own father was like flush her down.

1141
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:31,080
Speaker 1: I mean it's wild and you know, so like all

1142
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 1: of this to say, like now you're sitting here in

1143
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:36,120
Speaker 1: this documentary, and you just have this portrait of this

1144
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 1: ghoulish woman, right, And I think a lot of people

1145
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 1: watching the documentary, myself included, just almost like couldn't believe

1146
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:50,320
Speaker 1: that a mom would be capable of something like this, right,

1147
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 1: she would be capable of doing this to her own daughter.

1148
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 1: And when they do have the Munchausen by proxy X

1149
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:04,360
Speaker 1: or when he's giving his sort of take on the matter,

1150
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:09,320
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly like that as a concept is so

1151
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 1: fascinating and dark to me.

1152
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 2: I mean, not knowing a ton about it before watching this,

1153
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:19,400
Speaker 2: but I definitely like went on a research hole after

1154
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:22,160
Speaker 2: I watched the film because it's just such an I mean,

1155
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:23,320
Speaker 2: it's just so interesting.

1156
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 3: Do I to tell people like bare Bones what it is?

1157
00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 2: Or yeah?

1158
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 1: I mean Munchausen by proxy is essentially somebody that believes

1159
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 1: that a loved one or someone is ill and.

1160
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:41,400
Speaker 2: Presents that person is sick.

1161
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 1: And whether or not the instinct is either something that's

1162
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:52,680
Speaker 1: like maybe selfishly motivated or you know, something else, I

1163
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 1: don't know, but that's the real basic, the basic tenet.

1164
00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 5: Of it, right.

1165
00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:00,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, But you know, all is to say it made

1166
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:02,680
Speaker 1: me want to know more about Deanie, to be honest,

1167
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 1: beyond like the obviously the wild family stories, but just

1168
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:09,280
Speaker 1: knowing that this was sort of a lifelong thing, right.

1169
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 1: But it's that thing too about mothers that I think

1170
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:15,480
Speaker 1: what makes it shocking is that, you know, we have

1171
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 1: this societal belief generally that mothers are always going to

1172
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:26,280
Speaker 1: protect their children, and sometimes that is not true, right, Yeah.

1173
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:28,200
Speaker 3: There's still people that I can tell you from personal experience,

1174
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 3: it's not always true.

1175
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:33,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, But that's I think what creates a lot of

1176
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 1: the the just the feeling of shock that when you

1177
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:38,960
Speaker 1: watch this.

1178
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:43,600
Speaker 2: Right, So, now we kicked into the second half of

1179
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:44,080
Speaker 2: the film.

1180
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:46,320
Speaker 1: I think it's the second half of the film, which

1181
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 1: is where adult Gipsy is being interviewed by aaronly Carr

1182
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:55,360
Speaker 1: and she's clearly incarcerated and is basically kind of speaking

1183
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:59,480
Speaker 1: her truth now on camera, and we get this timeline

1184
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:04,680
Speaker 1: of Gypsy developing into a teenager, again not knowing how

1185
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 1: old she actually was, I think, but like you know,

1186
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:12,600
Speaker 1: she's basically getting older and she's still with living with Dedie,

1187
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 1: and as most teens do, she starts to rebel against

1188
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 1: her mother. And this doesn't get too fleshed out in

1189
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:25,640
Speaker 1: the documentary, but it's clear at some point that Gypsy

1190
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:29,919
Speaker 1: was allowed to cell phone and the internet, right, and

1191
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:33,200
Speaker 1: she's beginning to use the Internet to meet people, right,

1192
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:37,960
Speaker 1: And so because of this, she eventually starts running away

1193
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:43,200
Speaker 1: from home to attend fan conventions. She loves Disney and princesses,

1194
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 1: and she loves Tangled, the movie Tangled, right, And it

1195
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:51,840
Speaker 1: was online on a Christian dating website that she met

1196
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 1: a kid named Nicholas Godojohn. And you talked about Michelle Dean,

1197
01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 1: who is the BuzzFeed journalist she's in viewed in this documentary,

1198
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:03,000
Speaker 1: and she has probably the best quote in the film

1199
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:06,920
Speaker 1: where she said that when they met, it was like, quote,

1200
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:12,360
Speaker 1: two bad narratives collided with each other. And that pretty

1201
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:13,320
Speaker 1: much sums it all.

1202
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:16,840
Speaker 2: Up with these two, right, absolutely. Now, what I think

1203
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 2: is really interesting is that he was like go to.

1204
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:24,040
Speaker 1: John was not interviewed himself in the documentary, nor was

1205
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:27,320
Speaker 1: any of his family. The footage that exists of them

1206
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 1: is like from the police interrogation videos. Okay, but in

1207
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 1: those videos his parents are being interviewed and they talk

1208
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:42,640
Speaker 1: about how he has autism and Aspergers and this absolutely

1209
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:49,360
Speaker 1: mind blowing news report footage where the news reporter talks

1210
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 1: about this incident involving Nicholas Gotjohn where he was in

1211
01:01:55,600 --> 01:02:00,280
Speaker 1: a McDonald's and it was watching porn and fondeling himself

1212
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:02,800
Speaker 1: for nine hours.

1213
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:05,920
Speaker 3: And we do have an episode called nine American Hours

1214
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:10,440
Speaker 3: because we did talk about this that at one point

1215
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:12,960
Speaker 3: can still cannot get over it nine hours in a

1216
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 3: McDonald's jerking it and nobody didn't.

1217
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:19,280
Speaker 1: I mean, I have thought about this every which way,

1218
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:24,720
Speaker 1: but loose because I'm like, nine hours to do anything,

1219
01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 1: let alone.

1220
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 3: That's a shift change. That's a shift change, y'all.

1221
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:32,240
Speaker 1: Somebody had to have known, Like and I'm not saying

1222
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 1: anybody wanted to put up with it or even go there,

1223
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:40,200
Speaker 1: but I'm like, there's no way that that was just

1224
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:42,360
Speaker 1: left alone, like in any way.

1225
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:44,720
Speaker 3: So, I mean, he was watching porn, even if he

1226
01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:47,280
Speaker 3: wasn't touching himself, He's watching porn for nine hours in

1227
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:51,000
Speaker 3: a McDonald's. Like any step of this is a bad time.

1228
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:57,200
Speaker 1: That still rocks me to my core to this day,

1229
01:02:57,280 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 1: Like I it's something that you and I will never

1230
01:02:59,320 --> 01:02:59,880
Speaker 1: be able to stop.

1231
01:02:59,920 --> 01:03:00,760
Speaker 4: The came out, I know.

1232
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:07,240
Speaker 2: It so okay, so confounding, It's so confounding to me. Yeah,

1233
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:08,760
Speaker 2: it's a part of this story.

1234
01:03:09,080 --> 01:03:11,480
Speaker 1: There's a there's a couple of moments that are tucked

1235
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:15,360
Speaker 1: in that just are what like it makes you rewind

1236
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:16,200
Speaker 1: the documentary.

1237
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:20,160
Speaker 2: You're like, did that actually happen? Like did we just hear.

1238
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:22,040
Speaker 3: That in his stock and the things that they set

1239
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 3: up about Nicholas or you know, kind of explaining who

1240
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:28,120
Speaker 3: he is and how he is. It's this also, it's

1241
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 3: not just a confounding random fact. It kind of plays

1242
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:34,080
Speaker 3: into helping set up like who he is and like

1243
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:36,440
Speaker 3: what his mental capacity is and kind of how he

1244
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:39,880
Speaker 3: views the world, and it leads you to kind of

1245
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:42,720
Speaker 3: understand a little bit more like looking at the text

1246
01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 3: messages between him and Gypsy about kind of where where

1247
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:50,000
Speaker 3: his mind was when the event happened.

1248
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 1: Right, and like this is the thing. So you have

1249
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:58,160
Speaker 1: these like two young people, probably no relationship experience, and

1250
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:03,080
Speaker 1: you know, the documentary notes that it's just got escalated

1251
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 1: very quickly, and interestingly enough, it starts moving into this

1252
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:09,920
Speaker 1: like BDSM realm and.

1253
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 2: This goes zero.

1254
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 1: To one hundred real quick, Okay, And knowing what you

1255
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:18,560
Speaker 1: saw on the first half of this film, you're seeing

1256
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:23,640
Speaker 1: now these Facebook posts and these photographs where she's like

1257
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:27,480
Speaker 1: role playing for him and it's just like, wait, what,

1258
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:36,040
Speaker 1: Like we saw her in her wheelchair at Disney World,

1259
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:40,760
Speaker 1: and now she's wearing a bikini, and you know, I'm

1260
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:42,960
Speaker 1: just like, what is happening?

1261
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 2: Like It's just it was just.

1262
01:04:44,520 --> 01:04:48,760
Speaker 1: Wild to see, like as a viewer, and you know,

1263
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:51,200
Speaker 1: they meet up at a certain point.

1264
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:52,480
Speaker 2: They're so desperate to see each other.

1265
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:54,560
Speaker 1: They came up with a scheme to like meet at

1266
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:56,680
Speaker 1: the movies and they had sex in the bathroom, and

1267
01:04:56,680 --> 01:04:58,400
Speaker 1: it was just like at this point, all hell has

1268
01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 1: broken loose in this documentary O. And it's almost like

1269
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:07,040
Speaker 1: inconqruous in a way, because it's like you see these

1270
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:10,920
Speaker 1: two kids and they're being pretty dark and they're doing

1271
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:14,280
Speaker 1: and saying these very dark things. And I mean, if

1272
01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:17,680
Speaker 1: you haven't seen this documentary or have no idea what

1273
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:19,880
Speaker 1: this case is about, I mean I'll offer a spoiler

1274
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 1: alert to you right now. They lay out an entire

1275
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:26,240
Speaker 1: plot to kill her mother so they can be together essentially, right,

1276
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:30,440
Speaker 1: And I mean there's so many details that are tucked

1277
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:33,880
Speaker 1: in to this that are just kind of brain chattering

1278
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:37,080
Speaker 1: for me in a way that was like, wow, this

1279
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:39,240
Speaker 1: is truly out there. I mean, the idea that they

1280
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:43,120
Speaker 1: mailed the murder weapon to themselves and put their.

1281
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:46,200
Speaker 2: Real addresses on it. Yeah, you know the.

1282
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:51,080
Speaker 1: Idea that there's footage in this documentary of Postcrime they're

1283
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:55,280
Speaker 1: in bed naked eating brownies afterwards, and you're just like,

1284
01:05:55,720 --> 01:05:57,600
Speaker 1: I mean, these are just things that rocked me.

1285
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:01,480
Speaker 3: And it's again it's set up. So it's really set

1286
01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:06,200
Speaker 3: up well in the in the documentary where it's shocking

1287
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:10,480
Speaker 3: to see that video of them after postcrime, and you

1288
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:14,760
Speaker 3: also fully understand, at least from Gypsy Roses perspective. From

1289
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:20,360
Speaker 3: Gypsy's perspective, you understand that she had no outlet to

1290
01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:22,960
Speaker 3: feel that she would ever be able to get free

1291
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:25,600
Speaker 3: of what was happening to her. And she didn't even

1292
01:06:25,720 --> 01:06:29,440
Speaker 3: understand what was happening to her. She just knew that

1293
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:33,439
Speaker 3: her mother was incredibly controlling. You know, she would grab

1294
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:35,840
Speaker 3: her hand during interviews and like squeeze her to get

1295
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:38,200
Speaker 3: her to stop talking. Like her mother was an incredibly

1296
01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:41,440
Speaker 3: controlling person. She forced a feeding tube on her. She

1297
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:44,840
Speaker 3: the medication she was giving her to you know, kind

1298
01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:47,520
Speaker 3: of quote help with her illness was actually what was

1299
01:06:47,560 --> 01:06:51,400
Speaker 3: making her incredibly sick, and she couldn't think of a

1300
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:53,840
Speaker 3: way to get away. So when this guy rolls into

1301
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:57,320
Speaker 3: her life, Who's just like, I'm into BDSM, let's kill

1302
01:06:57,360 --> 01:07:00,000
Speaker 3: your mom. I have the you know, the medical past

1303
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:02,160
Speaker 3: a fifteen year old, So that's kind of where I'm

1304
01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:05,280
Speaker 3: coming from, and let's just do it so we can

1305
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:07,800
Speaker 3: run away together and be in this weird fantasy space,

1306
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:12,680
Speaker 3: like they kind of concocted this crime in a fantasy

1307
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:15,760
Speaker 3: realm and then made it come true. It's just it's

1308
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:18,920
Speaker 3: very compelling, Like the documentary itself is very compelling in

1309
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:19,280
Speaker 3: that way.

1310
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:21,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think that that is kind of

1311
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 1: the important thing for me to note, is that the

1312
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:29,600
Speaker 1: documentary is telling a story of the crime. It's got

1313
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:33,960
Speaker 1: its own cadence, it's got its own be It's like,

1314
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:37,000
Speaker 1: you know, there's a difference between watching this documentary and

1315
01:07:37,040 --> 01:07:40,560
Speaker 1: just like reading facts, right, And there's obviously parts of

1316
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:44,200
Speaker 1: the documentary that are included to tell a story. And

1317
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:47,800
Speaker 1: I just feel like that's why I think I like

1318
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:50,480
Speaker 1: the documentary so much, is because it just hit all

1319
01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:55,160
Speaker 1: of these different points and it didn't feel like it was.

1320
01:07:56,720 --> 01:07:57,480
Speaker 2: Really trying.

1321
01:07:57,600 --> 01:07:59,680
Speaker 1: It was just like laying out facts but also showing

1322
01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:03,720
Speaker 1: you all of these things that made you realize, oh,

1323
01:08:03,720 --> 01:08:06,160
Speaker 1: this is very complex, Like there's a lot of moving

1324
01:08:06,200 --> 01:08:11,440
Speaker 1: parts here, and so yeah, and you know, interestingly enough,

1325
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:15,280
Speaker 1: like you know, you know, she went to jail because

1326
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:17,960
Speaker 1: she's being interviewed from a jail, and so there's a

1327
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:22,120
Speaker 1: scene towards the end where her father and stepmom actually

1328
01:08:22,120 --> 01:08:24,599
Speaker 1: come to visit her, and it's actually very emotional. It

1329
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:27,640
Speaker 1: makes me tear up every time because I feel like,

1330
01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:30,920
Speaker 1: in that moment, it's like her father and her and

1331
01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:33,200
Speaker 1: his wife are kind of giving her this like true

1332
01:08:33,240 --> 01:08:36,760
Speaker 1: support and encouragement and care, and it's just like to

1333
01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:39,320
Speaker 1: have known all of that stuff had happened at the

1334
01:08:39,360 --> 01:08:43,240
Speaker 1: beginning and have it kind of sort of settle into

1335
01:08:43,280 --> 01:08:47,040
Speaker 1: this moment. I think that was something that I certainly

1336
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:49,040
Speaker 1: needed to see as a viewer in that way, because

1337
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:53,400
Speaker 1: it just was like everybody had filled her for so long,

1338
01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:59,479
Speaker 1: right Yeah. So I mean, honestly, you know, like I said,

1339
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:02,400
Speaker 1: this movie for the theme, because I felt like it

1340
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:08,599
Speaker 1: was there's just so many secrets happening, you know, between

1341
01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:13,479
Speaker 1: even between Gypsy and Deed, right, But it's just it's

1342
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:17,280
Speaker 1: so interesting to me to watch kind of like this relationship,

1343
01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:21,080
Speaker 1: this mother daughter relationship, and it just really made me

1344
01:09:21,080 --> 01:09:24,000
Speaker 1: start thinking about the role of mothers and sort of

1345
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:27,679
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, just like just this idea

1346
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:33,960
Speaker 1: of like moms like kind of going against that like

1347
01:09:34,080 --> 01:09:37,200
Speaker 1: classic narrative of like the nurturer and the you know,

1348
01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:40,439
Speaker 1: the person that's just like the woman that knows best,

1349
01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:43,240
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's like it's not like

1350
01:09:43,280 --> 01:09:46,280
Speaker 1: that all the time. And I think I think that's

1351
01:09:46,320 --> 01:09:49,559
Speaker 1: why this crime shocks people, and those documentary shocks people.

1352
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:51,240
Speaker 2: And yeah, I.

1353
01:09:51,200 --> 01:09:53,000
Speaker 1: Mean when I when we were thinking of the theme,

1354
01:09:53,040 --> 01:09:54,880
Speaker 1: this was the one that I was like, this is

1355
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:56,320
Speaker 1: the one that I chose.

1356
01:09:57,080 --> 01:09:59,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a great it's such a great documentary. I'm

1357
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:02,160
Speaker 3: so glad you picked it. And it's really complex and

1358
01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:08,000
Speaker 3: just very sad, and you know, it's sad for all involved,

1359
01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:11,639
Speaker 3: and it's just it's really interesting to see. Like I'm

1360
01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:13,479
Speaker 3: just I liked to have seeing all of the different

1361
01:10:13,640 --> 01:10:16,120
Speaker 3: layers that were they were present in this story.

1362
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:20,759
Speaker 2: But listen, I have never seen your film.

1363
01:10:22,520 --> 01:10:25,200
Speaker 1: Oh I've been hearing about it for years, Like I'm

1364
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:28,920
Speaker 1: just like, I can't believe I've never seen it. I

1365
01:10:29,000 --> 01:10:33,479
Speaker 1: love the filmmaker, so I'm I was so ecstatic when

1366
01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:35,519
Speaker 1: you told me that this was your movie.

1367
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:35,920
Speaker 5: This week.

1368
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:39,840
Speaker 3: So yeah, and my film is a documentary from twenty

1369
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:43,080
Speaker 3: twelve and it was directed by Sarah Polly and it's

1370
01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:45,800
Speaker 3: called Stories We Tell. I was like thirteen and my

1371
01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:47,880
Speaker 3: sister first told me, you know, your dad's probably not

1372
01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:50,080
Speaker 3: your real dad. I remember we talked about how you

1373
01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:53,479
Speaker 3: didn't look like dad, and dad joked about it. So

1374
01:10:54,360 --> 01:10:57,640
Speaker 3: we have discussed Sarah Polly before it briefly on the podcast.

1375
01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:01,440
Speaker 3: I really like and admire and respect her as a filmmaker.

1376
01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:05,200
Speaker 3: She was a kind of a child star in Canada

1377
01:11:05,479 --> 01:11:09,559
Speaker 3: and went into a filmmaking career that was impressive, and

1378
01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:13,439
Speaker 3: then became a director and she's a writer, and she's

1379
01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:19,000
Speaker 3: just really prolific and thoughtful and interesting to me as

1380
01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:22,440
Speaker 3: a filmmaker. So I'm always She's one of those filmmakers

1381
01:11:22,439 --> 01:11:24,880
Speaker 3: where whenever I see that her name is attached to something,

1382
01:11:25,160 --> 01:11:26,640
Speaker 3: I know I'm going to watch it and I'm just

1383
01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:30,920
Speaker 3: instantly in because she has a very unique way into

1384
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:35,679
Speaker 3: storytelling that I love. And so it was really exciting

1385
01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:39,880
Speaker 3: when this film came out that she was now kind

1386
01:11:39,880 --> 01:11:43,080
Speaker 3: of turning the camera on her own family to tell

1387
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:45,640
Speaker 3: a story that I had no idea was part of

1388
01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:50,160
Speaker 3: her background and so the interesting thing about this documentary,

1389
01:11:50,200 --> 01:11:53,240
Speaker 3: and just to give a brief synopsis of what it's.

1390
01:11:53,120 --> 01:11:55,080
Speaker 4: About, Sarah Polly.

1391
01:11:56,040 --> 01:11:59,679
Speaker 3: Her mom was an actress, Diane Polly, was an actress,

1392
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:05,840
Speaker 3: and her father was an actor, Michael Polly, and she

1393
01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:10,120
Speaker 3: really she finds out and it is expressed in the

1394
01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:13,920
Speaker 3: movie how she finds out, but after her mother dies,

1395
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:19,920
Speaker 3: she finds out that Michael, who she has been raised

1396
01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:22,280
Speaker 3: with from the day she was born, might not be

1397
01:12:22,360 --> 01:12:26,920
Speaker 3: her biological father. So just to kind of get into

1398
01:12:28,640 --> 01:12:31,280
Speaker 3: how the story, how this documentary begins, because I think

1399
01:12:31,640 --> 01:12:34,680
Speaker 3: something that really is interesting to me about this documentary

1400
01:12:34,760 --> 01:12:37,439
Speaker 3: is not just what the subject matter is, but the

1401
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:40,160
Speaker 3: kind of way that it is that it unfolds and

1402
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:42,400
Speaker 3: the way that she that the film is is laid out,

1403
01:12:42,439 --> 01:12:45,559
Speaker 3: and that the documentary how it deals with information because

1404
01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:48,519
Speaker 3: there's a lot of information to be had, and something

1405
01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:51,040
Speaker 3: that she does right away that's really smart is one

1406
01:12:51,080 --> 01:12:53,600
Speaker 3: of the first things that you see her say to

1407
01:12:53,680 --> 01:12:57,680
Speaker 3: her subjects, which include her family, family, friends, people who

1408
01:12:57,760 --> 01:12:59,760
Speaker 3: worked with her mother, because her mother is not here

1409
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:03,160
Speaker 3: to tell her own story anymore, so she says to them,

1410
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:07,479
Speaker 3: tell the story from beginning to end in your own words,

1411
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:10,000
Speaker 3: and I just think that's such an interesting way to

1412
01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:15,080
Speaker 3: kind of frame this story because what you're realizing by

1413
01:13:15,120 --> 01:13:17,040
Speaker 3: the end of the film especially, but like what you're

1414
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:22,120
Speaker 3: realizing as the documentary unfolds, is that the impact that

1415
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:24,479
Speaker 3: this had on her family hit everyone differently, and it

1416
01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:28,200
Speaker 3: was astounding how many people knew. But she kind of

1417
01:13:28,240 --> 01:13:31,280
Speaker 3: is wrestling with this notion of everyone has their own

1418
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:34,360
Speaker 3: version of the truth and everyone has their own version

1419
01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:37,880
Speaker 3: of the story. So built into the documentary because she's

1420
01:13:37,920 --> 01:13:41,240
Speaker 3: having everyone tell their own story, is an explanation of

1421
01:13:41,280 --> 01:13:43,519
Speaker 3: how and why this documentary.

1422
01:13:42,920 --> 01:13:43,360
Speaker 4: Came to be.

1423
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:46,720
Speaker 3: So she's starting out in this recording studio with her

1424
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:50,320
Speaker 3: dad and Michael Paula, you might know, my fellow nerds

1425
01:13:50,439 --> 01:13:53,960
Speaker 3: might know as Frank from Slings and Arrows, which is

1426
01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:55,800
Speaker 3: a show I watch once a year. It's one of

1427
01:13:55,880 --> 01:13:58,040
Speaker 3: my favorite shows of all time. We'll talk about it

1428
01:13:58,040 --> 01:14:02,000
Speaker 3: another time. He was an actor, and you know, he

1429
01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:06,719
Speaker 3: was a theater actor in Canada, and that's how Diane

1430
01:14:06,720 --> 01:14:10,080
Speaker 3: met him. And again, like so we kind of start

1431
01:14:10,080 --> 01:14:12,639
Speaker 3: with her in the studio with her dad, who's older

1432
01:14:12,680 --> 01:14:16,720
Speaker 3: now and he has written his own memoir, so he's

1433
01:14:16,760 --> 01:14:19,160
Speaker 3: recording his memoir and she's kind of directing him as

1434
01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:24,120
Speaker 3: he's recording his memoir, and they're really talking a lot.

1435
01:14:23,880 --> 01:14:26,479
Speaker 4: About her mother, Dane in the beginning.

1436
01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:30,599
Speaker 3: And what I love about this documentary, which is very

1437
01:14:30,640 --> 01:14:34,200
Speaker 3: present in your documentary as well, there is so much footage,

1438
01:14:34,240 --> 01:14:37,160
Speaker 3: like the Super Eight never stopped rolling on this family.

1439
01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:40,519
Speaker 3: So you're seeing Diane as this vibrant woman, and they're

1440
01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:43,519
Speaker 3: talking about her in this way that like she was

1441
01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:47,800
Speaker 3: just free and wild and wonderful and fun, and she

1442
01:14:47,880 --> 01:14:49,559
Speaker 3: was a great mom and she was a great partner.

1443
01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:53,000
Speaker 3: Like there's really telling you while you're seeing it in action,

1444
01:14:53,160 --> 01:14:55,360
Speaker 3: like you're seeing these moments of her life, these little

1445
01:14:55,360 --> 01:15:00,720
Speaker 3: clips of her life that really showcased how how much

1446
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:05,320
Speaker 3: she yearned for excitement and she built a life around

1447
01:15:05,439 --> 01:15:08,840
Speaker 3: excitement and art. But she also but there's also another,

1448
01:15:09,320 --> 01:15:12,200
Speaker 3: of course, as always, there's another story to tell, which

1449
01:15:12,240 --> 01:15:15,800
Speaker 3: is that when Diane and Michael met, there were very

1450
01:15:15,840 --> 01:15:18,360
Speaker 3: different people. She really admired him as an actor. They

1451
01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:21,360
Speaker 3: met in this theater production, and then they got together

1452
01:15:21,439 --> 01:15:24,400
Speaker 3: and got married and had kids, but she over time

1453
01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:28,720
Speaker 3: became really frustrated and disappointed with him because she thought

1454
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:31,320
Speaker 3: he was this brilliant artist. But he wasn't putting any

1455
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:32,760
Speaker 3: of it to use in his real life, like he

1456
01:15:32,800 --> 01:15:37,080
Speaker 3: became an insurance salesman to support their family. So she

1457
01:15:37,200 --> 01:15:41,160
Speaker 3: goes to Montreal. You know, she's excited and she always

1458
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:42,960
Speaker 3: wanted to go to Montreal. She felt like the art

1459
01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:44,840
Speaker 3: scene was more vibrant there and it was kind of

1460
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:46,680
Speaker 3: more of her place where she should be instead of

1461
01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:51,920
Speaker 3: in Toronto where everyone was living. And their relationship is

1462
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:54,639
Speaker 3: kind of on the downturn. When she goes to Montreal,

1463
01:15:55,320 --> 01:15:57,200
Speaker 3: Michael comes to visit for a weekend. They kind of

1464
01:15:57,240 --> 01:16:01,920
Speaker 3: rekindle things. Very interesting also here in this film, the

1465
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:05,080
Speaker 3: way that the kids all talk about their parents' sex life,

1466
01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:09,639
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that was wild. It was wild, right

1467
01:16:09,640 --> 01:16:12,280
Speaker 3: because they're like very open people and it wasn't lascivious

1468
01:16:12,280 --> 01:16:14,320
Speaker 3: in any way. It was just kind of like, you know, again,

1469
01:16:14,360 --> 01:16:17,680
Speaker 3: like a way to showcase that this is the relationship

1470
01:16:17,720 --> 01:16:19,920
Speaker 3: we have as a family, you know, like we knew

1471
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:23,519
Speaker 3: these things, or since we've become adults, we've found out

1472
01:16:23,560 --> 01:16:26,280
Speaker 3: these things. So they had this, you know, this great

1473
01:16:26,560 --> 01:16:30,400
Speaker 3: rekindling of their relationship. So when Diane comes back from

1474
01:16:30,400 --> 01:16:36,760
Speaker 3: Montreal and she's pregnant, Michael can't figure out why this

1475
01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:40,799
Speaker 3: is so upsetting to her, and she's considering an abortion,

1476
01:16:41,080 --> 01:16:43,040
Speaker 3: and you know, to his credit, he's like, it's your body,

1477
01:16:43,040 --> 01:16:45,760
Speaker 3: you can do whatever you want. You know, she would

1478
01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:48,400
Speaker 3: have been an older mom. She was, you know, ivily forty,

1479
01:16:48,960 --> 01:16:51,719
Speaker 3: and you know she was in this. Also what's interesting

1480
01:16:51,720 --> 01:16:54,719
Speaker 3: is she was in this play called Philomena where life

1481
01:16:54,760 --> 01:16:58,439
Speaker 3: definitely imitates art. It was turned into a film called

1482
01:16:58,479 --> 01:17:02,640
Speaker 3: Marriage Italian Style, and it's just kind of interesting, a

1483
01:17:02,640 --> 01:17:04,840
Speaker 3: little interesting side note as the film develops for you, like,

1484
01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:07,160
Speaker 3: oh my god, life imitates art, art imitates life, like

1485
01:17:07,160 --> 01:17:08,440
Speaker 3: it's all intertwined.

1486
01:17:09,240 --> 01:17:11,760
Speaker 4: And the reason.

1487
01:17:12,360 --> 01:17:15,439
Speaker 3: That you come to find out Diane dies of cancer

1488
01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:19,120
Speaker 3: when Sarah is like ten or eleven, and Michael's really isolated,

1489
01:17:19,160 --> 01:17:22,160
Speaker 3: but he, you know, he raises Sarah on his own

1490
01:17:22,240 --> 01:17:25,240
Speaker 3: because her siblings are all a little bit older at

1491
01:17:25,240 --> 01:17:28,080
Speaker 3: this point. And as it turns out, the reason that

1492
01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:31,720
Speaker 3: Diane was upset and wasn't sure if she wanted to

1493
01:17:31,960 --> 01:17:34,880
Speaker 3: give birth to Sarah and have Sarah is because she

1494
01:17:36,160 --> 01:17:40,200
Speaker 3: wasn't entirely sure who the father was because she'd had

1495
01:17:40,240 --> 01:17:41,720
Speaker 3: an affair in Montreal.

1496
01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:45,840
Speaker 4: So as this film is unfolding, you.

1497
01:17:45,840 --> 01:17:49,599
Speaker 3: Realize that Johnny, who is Sarah's brother, was the first

1498
01:17:49,600 --> 01:17:53,240
Speaker 3: person to kind of hear about this family secret because

1499
01:17:53,280 --> 01:17:55,160
Speaker 3: he overheard a phone call with Diane or she was

1500
01:17:55,160 --> 01:17:57,000
Speaker 3: talking to a friend like, I don't know if I

1501
01:17:57,040 --> 01:17:59,160
Speaker 3: should have this baby. It could be this other guy's baby,

1502
01:17:59,600 --> 01:18:02,280
Speaker 3: but it was. It's also interesting at that moment to

1503
01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:06,160
Speaker 3: learn that it was always a family joke that Sarah

1504
01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:09,679
Speaker 3: had a different dad because she didn't look like anybody else. Yeah,

1505
01:18:09,880 --> 01:18:11,920
Speaker 3: she had red hair when she was born. And so

1506
01:18:12,080 --> 01:18:14,800
Speaker 3: to kind of it's a really shocking and interesting moment

1507
01:18:14,840 --> 01:18:17,320
Speaker 3: to realize like what had been a family joke ends

1508
01:18:17,400 --> 01:18:20,640
Speaker 3: up being the path to her tracing the truth of

1509
01:18:20,680 --> 01:18:25,200
Speaker 3: her mother's life. So, and Diane was a fascinating woman.

1510
01:18:25,280 --> 01:18:28,400
Speaker 3: I think that she one thing I really appreciated about

1511
01:18:28,400 --> 01:18:30,360
Speaker 3: this film, and I think it fits really well. What

1512
01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:33,120
Speaker 3: they hate our secret knowledge is that they show her

1513
01:18:33,160 --> 01:18:35,960
Speaker 3: as a full person. She's not just a mom, she's

1514
01:18:36,000 --> 01:18:39,880
Speaker 3: not just a wife, she's not just one anything. She's

1515
01:18:39,960 --> 01:18:45,360
Speaker 3: really creative and thoughtful and strange and fun. And they're

1516
01:18:45,400 --> 01:18:48,360
Speaker 3: showing all these sides of a person who's no longer

1517
01:18:48,400 --> 01:18:52,680
Speaker 3: with us, but doing a great job in a documentary

1518
01:18:52,720 --> 01:18:55,880
Speaker 3: sense of really and truly documenting a life and all

1519
01:18:55,920 --> 01:19:00,680
Speaker 3: the secrets that are contained within so from them. For

1520
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:02,120
Speaker 3: the first time I saw it, I was like, this

1521
01:19:02,160 --> 01:19:05,479
Speaker 3: is brilliant, Like it's really brilliant because it's subtle and

1522
01:19:05,520 --> 01:19:09,200
Speaker 3: the way it unfolds just showcases how great of a

1523
01:19:09,240 --> 01:19:13,320
Speaker 3: storyteller Sarah Polly is because she's able to remove herself

1524
01:19:13,479 --> 01:19:16,479
Speaker 3: from her own narrative to get to this point where

1525
01:19:16,520 --> 01:19:20,519
Speaker 3: she's talking about something that her mother experienced. So it's

1526
01:19:20,640 --> 01:19:22,360
Speaker 3: I don't know if you felt that as well, but

1527
01:19:22,439 --> 01:19:25,400
Speaker 3: it felt like not like Diane was. It felt kind

1528
01:19:25,400 --> 01:19:27,360
Speaker 3: of like she was present, or at least that she was.

1529
01:19:27,880 --> 01:19:32,280
Speaker 3: She was more known in her posthumous life than she

1530
01:19:32,400 --> 01:19:34,759
Speaker 3: might have been in her actual life.

1531
01:19:34,960 --> 01:19:36,599
Speaker 1: Well, and like this is what I think is really

1532
01:19:37,240 --> 01:19:42,160
Speaker 1: so cool about this documentary. And like I said, fresh eyes,

1533
01:19:42,240 --> 01:19:44,840
Speaker 1: like I didn't see I had just seen it, you know,

1534
01:19:44,920 --> 01:19:48,040
Speaker 1: when we were about to record. Is that I feel

1535
01:19:48,080 --> 01:19:50,400
Speaker 1: like it's doing this thing that a lot of documentaries

1536
01:19:50,479 --> 01:19:52,400
Speaker 1: just do now, which is that it does this like

1537
01:19:52,920 --> 01:19:57,920
Speaker 1: kind of like textured like other like different people being

1538
01:19:57,960 --> 01:20:01,120
Speaker 1: interviewed about the same thing. And so it feels like

1539
01:20:01,200 --> 01:20:04,200
Speaker 1: I mean, and it also I gotta admit, like it

1540
01:20:04,320 --> 01:20:06,720
Speaker 1: made me want a big family. Like it was just

1541
01:20:06,760 --> 01:20:08,559
Speaker 1: like all these brothers and sisters, and I was like,

1542
01:20:08,840 --> 01:20:10,800
Speaker 1: oh gosh, it like it wouldn't be so fun to

1543
01:20:10,840 --> 01:20:14,160
Speaker 1: have like five or six brothers and sisters. It's like,

1544
01:20:14,520 --> 01:20:18,200
Speaker 1: and they're all kind of talking about the same person obviously,

1545
01:20:18,240 --> 01:20:21,200
Speaker 1: but in their own different ways, but it's all being

1546
01:20:21,320 --> 01:20:23,920
Speaker 1: edited together to like kind of you know, So it

1547
01:20:24,040 --> 01:20:26,360
Speaker 1: just was like a really cool technique. And I feel

1548
01:20:26,360 --> 01:20:30,200
Speaker 1: like that's every documentary these days, is they do the

1549
01:20:30,240 --> 01:20:33,080
Speaker 1: same kind of kind of that kind of editing structure.

1550
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:36,439
Speaker 2: But yeah, it was It was really interesting.

1551
01:20:36,439 --> 01:20:40,639
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, I loved Johnny, Like I loved his interview.

1552
01:20:40,680 --> 01:20:42,120
Speaker 2: He seems really fun, but.

1553
01:20:42,360 --> 01:20:44,559
Speaker 1: He was like, you know, like there were definitely people

1554
01:20:44,640 --> 01:20:48,439
Speaker 1: in her family that had like more of the humorous takes,

1555
01:20:48,479 --> 01:20:49,880
Speaker 1: and then there were of other people that kind of

1556
01:20:49,920 --> 01:20:51,760
Speaker 1: provided a little bit more levity, which I think is

1557
01:20:51,760 --> 01:20:52,920
Speaker 1: really cool because it kind.

1558
01:20:52,800 --> 01:20:56,240
Speaker 2: Of shows you, like, this person is a lot of different.

1559
01:20:55,920 --> 01:20:56,760
Speaker 4: Things, right.

1560
01:20:56,880 --> 01:20:59,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, they definitely that was something that I thought

1561
01:20:59,640 --> 01:21:03,040
Speaker 3: was an interesting way to look at familial traits, Like

1562
01:21:03,080 --> 01:21:05,800
Speaker 3: she was shown just in the way that they were

1563
01:21:05,800 --> 01:21:09,320
Speaker 3: talking to each other indicated how much how they used

1564
01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:12,600
Speaker 3: humor to really deflect a lot and get through some

1565
01:21:12,720 --> 01:21:15,800
Speaker 3: of these more difficult conversations. And they're not just like

1566
01:21:15,840 --> 01:21:19,120
Speaker 3: they're a fun family for sure, but they're also able

1567
01:21:19,240 --> 01:21:21,280
Speaker 3: to you know, when you're looking at the humor of

1568
01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:24,760
Speaker 3: how they're talking about this, now you're seeing in a

1569
01:21:24,840 --> 01:21:26,960
Speaker 3: very subtle way, how they've been able to move through

1570
01:21:27,000 --> 01:21:28,880
Speaker 3: the pain of it. Like you can't get to the

1571
01:21:28,960 --> 01:21:30,960
Speaker 3: humor of something until you're on the other side of it.

1572
01:21:31,840 --> 01:21:34,280
Speaker 3: So I think that that was really really brilliant, like

1573
01:21:34,280 --> 01:21:37,800
Speaker 3: a brilliant move as well. And Diane again, like you

1574
01:21:37,840 --> 01:21:41,800
Speaker 3: find out as after this one bombshell has dropped, you

1575
01:21:41,880 --> 01:21:45,280
Speaker 3: kind of find out more about her life, like you know,

1576
01:21:45,520 --> 01:21:47,800
Speaker 3: these kids are all different ages and kind of have

1577
01:21:48,400 --> 01:21:51,040
Speaker 3: you know, different looks, And you find out that Diane

1578
01:21:51,120 --> 01:21:54,519
Speaker 3: was married and her first marriage she actually lost. She

1579
01:21:54,600 --> 01:21:57,600
Speaker 3: was the first person, first woman in Canada lose custody

1580
01:21:57,640 --> 01:22:00,639
Speaker 3: of her children. And the reason and that she lost

1581
01:22:00,680 --> 01:22:04,599
Speaker 3: custody of the of her two children is because she

1582
01:22:04,920 --> 01:22:06,840
Speaker 3: had had an affair with Michael, Like that's how she

1583
01:22:06,880 --> 01:22:09,880
Speaker 3: met Michael. She was married when they met, and so

1584
01:22:11,200 --> 01:22:13,439
Speaker 3: you know, she had the pain of that that she

1585
01:22:13,520 --> 01:22:16,280
Speaker 3: was carrying of you know, the pain of I've I've

1586
01:22:16,280 --> 01:22:18,960
Speaker 3: lost my kids. You know, she did get to see

1587
01:22:18,960 --> 01:22:20,920
Speaker 3: them obviously, but she did not have full custody of

1588
01:22:20,920 --> 01:22:21,439
Speaker 3: her kids.

1589
01:22:21,880 --> 01:22:23,599
Speaker 4: And also I also am in.

1590
01:22:23,520 --> 01:22:27,519
Speaker 3: Love and I have this, you know, more kids, and

1591
01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:30,960
Speaker 3: I want my family to be whole. And so they

1592
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:32,599
Speaker 3: talk a lot about that in the film, like through

1593
01:22:32,600 --> 01:22:35,720
Speaker 3: her friends and through you know, Michael and her her

1594
01:22:35,760 --> 01:22:39,000
Speaker 3: lovers and everything that she was someone who who did

1595
01:22:39,720 --> 01:22:43,200
Speaker 3: she didn't hold back, like her emotional life wasn't cloistered

1596
01:22:43,240 --> 01:22:45,200
Speaker 3: from the people that she loved, and so I thought

1597
01:22:45,200 --> 01:22:48,479
Speaker 3: that was really cool and interesting to see. So it's

1598
01:22:48,520 --> 01:22:50,679
Speaker 3: also I'm not going to give away the big secret

1599
01:22:50,680 --> 01:22:55,000
Speaker 3: of the film, which is who Sarah's biological father is,

1600
01:22:55,800 --> 01:22:59,240
Speaker 3: because the way that that unfolds is also incredibly interesting.

1601
01:23:00,400 --> 01:23:03,599
Speaker 3: But I will say we do learn who her father is,

1602
01:23:04,439 --> 01:23:11,280
Speaker 3: and it's so heartbreaking and interesting because on the one hand,

1603
01:23:11,560 --> 01:23:14,960
Speaker 3: you have her biological father watching her grow up in

1604
01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:19,160
Speaker 3: a different family with a different man, especially after Diane dies,

1605
01:23:19,360 --> 01:23:22,679
Speaker 3: and he'd always wanted to be with her. He always

1606
01:23:22,680 --> 01:23:24,640
Speaker 3: wanted her to move to Montreal, bring the kids like

1607
01:23:24,680 --> 01:23:27,360
Speaker 3: he wanted her. He wanted what he could not have

1608
01:23:27,479 --> 01:23:30,760
Speaker 3: with her and there's this one scene he loved her

1609
01:23:30,760 --> 01:23:34,040
Speaker 3: so much, And there's this one scene where there's a

1610
01:23:34,080 --> 01:23:38,160
Speaker 3: shot of him at her funeral, and it just breaks

1611
01:23:38,200 --> 01:23:41,080
Speaker 3: my heart every time I see it. And they talk

1612
01:23:41,160 --> 01:23:45,880
Speaker 3: about there's a part where they talk about his being

1613
01:23:45,880 --> 01:23:48,840
Speaker 3: there and what somebody said to him, which is just

1614
01:23:48,880 --> 01:23:51,400
Speaker 3: like an arrow through the heart. Again, Like, it just

1615
01:23:51,400 --> 01:23:55,400
Speaker 3: felt like there was just NonStop loss and disappointment and

1616
01:23:55,400 --> 01:23:58,400
Speaker 3: sadness for him when it came to this relationship. But

1617
01:23:58,600 --> 01:24:03,080
Speaker 3: he always suspects did or kind of knew that he

1618
01:24:03,280 --> 01:24:05,960
Speaker 3: was Sarah's dad. So it's also interesting to me that

1619
01:24:06,040 --> 01:24:08,880
Speaker 3: like he didn't feel the need to tell her that. Like, again,

1620
01:24:08,960 --> 01:24:13,280
Speaker 3: it was astounding how many people knew about this supposed secret.

1621
01:24:13,760 --> 01:24:16,759
Speaker 3: But it comes to this, it comes to a head,

1622
01:24:16,800 --> 01:24:19,000
Speaker 3: and like the way that she finds out, her reaction

1623
01:24:19,120 --> 01:24:22,480
Speaker 3: when she finds out the thing she's discovering about herself

1624
01:24:22,560 --> 01:24:26,000
Speaker 3: after she finds out, it's just it's totally fascinating to me,

1625
01:24:26,040 --> 01:24:29,320
Speaker 3: And I think this is it's a really groundbreaking documentary

1626
01:24:29,320 --> 01:24:31,320
Speaker 3: that I don't think gets enough credit for being a

1627
01:24:31,360 --> 01:24:37,839
Speaker 3: groundbreaking documentary. And it's very emotional and it's very funny,

1628
01:24:38,080 --> 01:24:43,400
Speaker 3: and it's just incredibly clever, and it made me think

1629
01:24:43,400 --> 01:24:47,040
Speaker 3: a lot about you're talking about this relationship between mothers

1630
01:24:47,080 --> 01:24:49,879
Speaker 3: and daughters, and it made me think, you know, at

1631
01:24:49,880 --> 01:24:55,200
Speaker 3: a base level, this is a movie about daughters and fathers,

1632
01:24:55,360 --> 01:24:58,559
Speaker 3: but it really also is about mothers and daughters because

1633
01:24:58,560 --> 01:25:01,920
Speaker 3: she's trying to figure out who she is by kind

1634
01:25:01,920 --> 01:25:05,519
Speaker 3: of revisiting who her mother was, like who her mother

1635
01:25:05,560 --> 01:25:09,240
Speaker 3: presented herself to be versus who she actually was. And

1636
01:25:09,280 --> 01:25:14,519
Speaker 3: it's just very, very beautiful and just interesting and it

1637
01:25:14,600 --> 01:25:17,600
Speaker 3: does something that I want documentaries to do for me,

1638
01:25:17,680 --> 01:25:20,320
Speaker 3: which is to kind of make me think about the

1639
01:25:20,360 --> 01:25:24,439
Speaker 3: world in a different way and in a more gentle way,

1640
01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:25,840
Speaker 3: or a more creative.

1641
01:25:25,439 --> 01:25:27,000
Speaker 4: Way, or a more loving way.

1642
01:25:27,240 --> 01:25:30,280
Speaker 3: And I just think she absolutely this must have been

1643
01:25:30,360 --> 01:25:34,960
Speaker 3: such a difficult project to immerse yourself in. There's one

1644
01:25:35,000 --> 01:25:38,880
Speaker 3: moment in particular that is, you know, heartbreaking on Sarah

1645
01:25:38,920 --> 01:25:43,320
Speaker 3: Polly's part, where you know, somebody from a newspaper calls

1646
01:25:43,320 --> 01:25:44,960
Speaker 3: and it's like, hey, we're going to break this news

1647
01:25:45,080 --> 01:25:49,040
Speaker 3: about your dad, and she's like, I would love to

1648
01:25:49,040 --> 01:25:50,840
Speaker 3: be able to talk about this with my own family

1649
01:25:50,880 --> 01:25:54,040
Speaker 3: before you break the news, and she's like crying, but

1650
01:25:54,439 --> 01:25:58,559
Speaker 3: it's just it's again just very interesting. It's an interesting

1651
01:25:58,600 --> 01:26:01,400
Speaker 3: way to tell your own story by asking the people

1652
01:26:01,400 --> 01:26:03,280
Speaker 3: in your life and the people in your family to

1653
01:26:03,360 --> 01:26:05,760
Speaker 3: tell your story with you and from their perspective.

1654
01:26:05,840 --> 01:26:06,919
Speaker 4: I just thought it was brilliant.

1655
01:26:07,320 --> 01:26:08,439
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I do too.

1656
01:26:08,479 --> 01:26:10,840
Speaker 1: And I have to say, like, I mean, honestly, this

1657
01:26:11,040 --> 01:26:15,320
Speaker 1: entire theme, I'm just getting to that age where I'm

1658
01:26:15,360 --> 01:26:19,800
Speaker 1: just everything involving families is just so I don't know,

1659
01:26:20,040 --> 01:26:21,759
Speaker 1: just like it just means.

1660
01:26:21,520 --> 01:26:23,760
Speaker 2: More to me now than ever, Like when you're when I.

1661
01:26:23,720 --> 01:26:27,560
Speaker 1: Was a young person, I was like, cool, Yeah, everybody's

1662
01:26:27,880 --> 01:26:30,680
Speaker 1: weird in my family, and I'm not going to interrogate

1663
01:26:30,720 --> 01:26:33,080
Speaker 1: that too much. And I, you know, like people, I

1664
01:26:33,200 --> 01:26:36,880
Speaker 1: like my family and that's fine. But I don't know,

1665
01:26:36,920 --> 01:26:38,840
Speaker 1: as I'm getting older, I'm getting a little bit more

1666
01:26:39,120 --> 01:26:44,360
Speaker 1: introspective just about everything about my family and you know,

1667
01:26:45,000 --> 01:26:49,120
Speaker 1: feeling closer to them than ever. And you know, enough

1668
01:26:49,120 --> 01:26:51,200
Speaker 1: time has passed where I just started to have really

1669
01:26:51,280 --> 01:26:54,280
Speaker 1: processed a lot of deep shit about my family, and

1670
01:26:54,880 --> 01:27:00,280
Speaker 1: there's this moment like where I realized so basically, like

1671
01:27:00,320 --> 01:27:04,040
Speaker 1: one of one of the biggest sort of structures of

1672
01:27:04,080 --> 01:27:09,360
Speaker 1: the film, right is Sarah So basically her father Michael

1673
01:27:10,120 --> 01:27:17,080
Speaker 1: Right is in a studio and he's reading it's almost

1674
01:27:17,120 --> 01:27:19,519
Speaker 1: like a story, and it becomes kind of a narration

1675
01:27:19,760 --> 01:27:24,160
Speaker 1: of the film. You find out later that it's him,

1676
01:27:24,439 --> 01:27:27,560
Speaker 1: like he wrote the he wrote it, so he's basically

1677
01:27:27,640 --> 01:27:32,240
Speaker 1: dictating his own story, his memoir of the of everything.

1678
01:27:33,600 --> 01:27:37,640
Speaker 1: And then Sarah is watching him in the in the

1679
01:27:37,680 --> 01:27:42,120
Speaker 1: booth and is being filmed watching him, so she's watching

1680
01:27:42,240 --> 01:27:46,599
Speaker 1: him read his own account of everything that's going on,

1681
01:27:47,439 --> 01:27:52,439
Speaker 1: and like that to me is like was just like

1682
01:27:52,640 --> 01:27:56,519
Speaker 1: really weirdly emotional for me, because I was like it

1683
01:27:56,640 --> 01:28:00,680
Speaker 1: just made me think, like this, this is why like

1684
01:28:00,720 --> 01:28:04,880
Speaker 1: we need art is to help us like process emotions.

1685
01:28:05,120 --> 01:28:05,320
Speaker 3: You know.

1686
01:28:05,760 --> 01:28:09,559
Speaker 1: I'm like, I can't imagine doing that with my father,

1687
01:28:09,720 --> 01:28:11,960
Speaker 1: like if my I can't imagine my father writing about

1688
01:28:11,960 --> 01:28:14,160
Speaker 1: our family. But then on top of that, watching him

1689
01:28:15,160 --> 01:28:19,800
Speaker 1: read it in a documentary effectively to me and having

1690
01:28:19,800 --> 01:28:25,280
Speaker 1: a documentary focus on my facial expressions and me processing

1691
01:28:25,439 --> 01:28:29,720
Speaker 1: this information, and I just was like, that's why we

1692
01:28:29,760 --> 01:28:30,120
Speaker 1: need art.

1693
01:28:30,160 --> 01:28:32,680
Speaker 2: We need art to help us like move through stuff like.

1694
01:28:32,640 --> 01:28:33,639
Speaker 4: This, you know what I mean.

1695
01:28:33,840 --> 01:28:37,080
Speaker 3: It was really tender. It's a very tender experience.

1696
01:28:37,400 --> 01:28:42,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, and I loved it. I loved that part

1697
01:28:42,240 --> 01:28:44,400
Speaker 1: because You're right, it is a story about a father

1698
01:28:44,479 --> 01:28:47,040
Speaker 1: and a daughter too, and I just I don't know

1699
01:28:47,080 --> 01:28:50,280
Speaker 1: this to me, I am. I regret that I didn't

1700
01:28:50,320 --> 01:28:52,559
Speaker 1: see it earlier, obviously.

1701
01:28:52,600 --> 01:28:54,439
Speaker 2: But I'm just so glad I did. I mean, it's

1702
01:28:54,439 --> 01:28:55,960
Speaker 2: just it was really really textured it.

1703
01:28:56,400 --> 01:28:57,040
Speaker 5: It was just.

1704
01:28:57,080 --> 01:28:59,240
Speaker 1: Something that I needed to watch right now, just for

1705
01:28:59,400 --> 01:29:03,200
Speaker 1: my own sake. Like I said, I'm feeling very emo

1706
01:29:03,800 --> 01:29:06,240
Speaker 1: about family stuff at this point in my life, and

1707
01:29:06,280 --> 01:29:08,800
Speaker 1: I just I wanted, I needed something like this.

1708
01:29:08,880 --> 01:29:10,120
Speaker 2: It was just like the perfect thing.

1709
01:29:11,360 --> 01:29:11,559
Speaker 4: Oh.

1710
01:29:11,640 --> 01:29:13,439
Speaker 3: That makes me so happy because I love, I truly

1711
01:29:13,439 --> 01:29:16,120
Speaker 3: love this documentary and I think that it's you know,

1712
01:29:16,160 --> 01:29:18,160
Speaker 3: I have my own questions as I get older, you know,

1713
01:29:18,200 --> 01:29:20,320
Speaker 3: I definitely think that it puts me in a mindset

1714
01:29:20,320 --> 01:29:24,120
Speaker 3: to think about some things with my family. But you know,

1715
01:29:24,160 --> 01:29:27,360
Speaker 3: I've worked out a lot of my thoughts about my family,

1716
01:29:27,960 --> 01:29:32,639
Speaker 3: but they're ever evolving, and I think that this it's

1717
01:29:32,680 --> 01:29:36,479
Speaker 3: a documentary that makes me question in a broader sense,

1718
01:29:38,600 --> 01:29:42,559
Speaker 3: can you ever really know someone? And also what does

1719
01:29:42,600 --> 01:29:47,320
Speaker 3: it look like or feel like to be known? Yeah,

1720
01:29:47,360 --> 01:29:50,519
Speaker 3: And I just find that to be like just at

1721
01:29:50,560 --> 01:29:54,479
Speaker 3: its core, you know, at a very at its core

1722
01:29:54,560 --> 01:29:57,519
Speaker 3: from a very human perspective and connecting with the world

1723
01:29:57,640 --> 01:29:59,240
Speaker 3: and the world around you. I find that to be

1724
01:29:59,439 --> 01:30:02,320
Speaker 3: just a very interesting question to kind of be rattling

1725
01:30:02,360 --> 01:30:05,519
Speaker 3: around in my head after I've I've watched something, after

1726
01:30:05,520 --> 01:30:10,040
Speaker 3: I've watched this, and it's it's again, like I think

1727
01:30:10,080 --> 01:30:12,800
Speaker 3: about her mom a lot whenever I watch this film.

1728
01:30:12,840 --> 01:30:15,479
Speaker 3: I think about, like, you know, how much how much

1729
01:30:15,479 --> 01:30:18,360
Speaker 3: are you willing to show people? How much do you

1730
01:30:18,400 --> 01:30:20,800
Speaker 3: want people to know? Because her mom's life, you know,

1731
01:30:20,880 --> 01:30:23,920
Speaker 3: Diane's life was very compartmentalized, Like she talked about the

1732
01:30:23,960 --> 01:30:27,120
Speaker 3: affair with some of her friends, she talked about, you know,

1733
01:30:27,200 --> 01:30:29,840
Speaker 3: the parentage of you know, Sarah's parentage with some of

1734
01:30:29,840 --> 01:30:32,160
Speaker 3: her friends, and like she kind of siloed off her

1735
01:30:32,240 --> 01:30:35,720
Speaker 3: life in certain ways to get through her life. So

1736
01:30:35,760 --> 01:30:37,519
Speaker 3: it just kind of is again, it brings up these

1737
01:30:38,120 --> 01:30:41,400
Speaker 3: very interesting and vulnerable and foundational feelings for me about

1738
01:30:41,439 --> 01:30:42,800
Speaker 3: like what does it mean to be known?

1739
01:30:43,840 --> 01:30:44,880
Speaker 4: And it's scary, Like.

1740
01:30:44,840 --> 01:30:50,280
Speaker 3: I'm not sure that I'm entirely comfortable with being known.

1741
01:30:50,800 --> 01:30:52,719
Speaker 3: So that's a question that it makes me think about

1742
01:30:52,920 --> 01:30:56,200
Speaker 3: as well. It's like I don't I don't have that

1743
01:30:56,360 --> 01:31:01,320
Speaker 3: fundamental gift of a relationship with anyone in my family

1744
01:31:01,400 --> 01:31:04,120
Speaker 3: or my formative years that made me feel like I

1745
01:31:04,120 --> 01:31:06,000
Speaker 3: wanted them to know me because I felt like I

1746
01:31:06,120 --> 01:31:09,080
Speaker 3: was so different and so out of place. And the

1747
01:31:09,160 --> 01:31:12,599
Speaker 3: only way we see it play out in adult lives

1748
01:31:12,640 --> 01:31:15,000
Speaker 3: is through romance, and I'm not really in that space either.

1749
01:31:15,479 --> 01:31:18,519
Speaker 3: So I feel like, you know, it's interesting to think

1750
01:31:18,520 --> 01:31:21,719
Speaker 3: about what does it mean to be known and who

1751
01:31:21,920 --> 01:31:24,639
Speaker 3: gets to know you? So I just think that again,

1752
01:31:24,640 --> 01:31:29,240
Speaker 3: this film is so masterful on so many different levels,

1753
01:31:29,280 --> 01:31:33,040
Speaker 3: and I truly respected, admire Sarah Polly as a filmmaker.

1754
01:31:33,840 --> 01:31:35,280
Speaker 4: She just constantly blows me away.

1755
01:31:35,640 --> 01:31:39,679
Speaker 2: Yeah good, pick good theme.

1756
01:31:39,920 --> 01:31:44,439
Speaker 3: We did it, We did it, We did it, and

1757
01:31:44,479 --> 01:31:46,880
Speaker 3: we got one more episode coming up before the end

1758
01:31:46,920 --> 01:31:47,320
Speaker 3: of the year.

1759
01:31:48,439 --> 01:31:51,400
Speaker 2: Absolutely, holidays are upon us, as we know.

1760
01:31:51,760 --> 01:31:57,040
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I think you might know what's going on,

1761
01:31:57,200 --> 01:31:58,600
Speaker 1: but I don't know what.

1762
01:31:58,680 --> 01:31:59,880
Speaker 2: Are the movies next week?

1763
01:32:00,720 --> 01:32:01,639
Speaker 4: Our movies next week?

1764
01:32:01,680 --> 01:32:04,600
Speaker 3: Our Home Alone from nineteen ninety and Three Days of

1765
01:32:04,640 --> 01:32:06,240
Speaker 3: the Condor from nineteen seventy five.

1766
01:32:07,200 --> 01:32:11,880
Speaker 2: Guess the theme? Guess the theme? I don't know.

1767
01:32:12,320 --> 01:32:16,280
Speaker 1: I feel like there's enough context clues. Maybe we'll figure

1768
01:32:16,280 --> 01:32:19,439
Speaker 1: it out. But listen if you want to email us.

1769
01:32:19,479 --> 01:32:23,720
Speaker 1: We're at USAWG you Did Pod at gmail dot com.

1770
01:32:24,240 --> 01:32:28,080
Speaker 1: Send us letters. We read them on Bonus, but sometimes

1771
01:32:28,080 --> 01:32:30,160
Speaker 1: they jump to the main feed as you know.

1772
01:32:30,280 --> 01:32:33,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, send us your short questions because you never know

1773
01:32:33,080 --> 01:32:35,800
Speaker 3: who's going to be reading them. And we also have

1774
01:32:35,800 --> 01:32:38,080
Speaker 3: a PO box if you want to send us handwritten letters.

1775
01:32:38,120 --> 01:32:40,200
Speaker 3: You can find us on our social media at I

1776
01:32:40,240 --> 01:32:43,880
Speaker 3: Saw Pod on Instagram and Twitter, and our po box

1777
01:32:44,000 --> 01:32:46,639
Speaker 3: is listed in the link tree of our Instagram bio.

1778
01:32:47,439 --> 01:32:50,600
Speaker 1: Absolutely well, Danielle is always a fucking pleasure to do

1779
01:32:50,640 --> 01:32:52,080
Speaker 1: this podcast with you.

1780
01:32:52,080 --> 01:33:00,280
Speaker 2: You know, it's the best. Until next time. Bye.

1781
01:33:02,520 --> 01:33:05,280
Speaker 3: This has been an exactly right production, produced and mixed

1782
01:33:05,280 --> 01:33:08,400
Speaker 3: by Casey O'Brien. Our theme song is by Tom bry Fogel,

1783
01:33:08,680 --> 01:33:12,439
Speaker 3: artwork by Garrett Ross. Our executive producers are Georgia Hartstart

1784
01:33:12,479 --> 01:33:15,120
Speaker 3: Caring Til Garrett and Daniel Kramer. You can follow us

1785
01:33:15,160 --> 01:33:18,080
Speaker 3: on Instagram and Twitter at I Saw Pod, and you

1786
01:33:18,120 --> 01:33:20,320
Speaker 3: can email us at I Saw What you Did Pod

1787
01:33:20,400 --> 01:33:21,040
Speaker 3: at Gmail