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Speaker 4: Happy Valentine's Day.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Good Mom's Bad Choices.
Speaker 3: I'm Erica and I'm Mela. Happy hump Day.
Speaker 1: Bitch, Happy hump Day. How how you doing. I'm good.
Speaker 3: I'm good.
Speaker 2: I'm just enjoying the month of February. Love is in
Speaker 2: the air, Loving myself is in the air.
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you guys for joining us this February where
Speaker 1: the thing for February is for the love of self,
Speaker 1: because we all know the most important love that we
Speaker 1: can have is the one for ourselves.
Speaker 3: Amen.
Speaker 1: Amen, How is it going. How's your week going?
Speaker 4: My week is good.
Speaker 2: I've just been chilling being a mom, being fine as fuck.
Speaker 2: You know, the typical shit that I do every day.
Speaker 2: My existence is a gift.
Speaker 3: So that's it.
Speaker 1: I feel you same. I'm just being fine doing good
Speaker 1: dance moves, you know.
Speaker 3: It is such a great dancer.
Speaker 5: Thank you.
Speaker 3: I love the way dance.
Speaker 1: Thank you. You know, just cooking meals because I'm also
Speaker 1: good at that, and just you know, just trying to
Speaker 1: be my best self and make my bed and shit,
Speaker 1: well I love that for you. Thanks.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 3: Making your bed is really crucial.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm usually getting to it, sometimes i'm not.
Speaker 1: It's like between the bed and the dishes. I'm just
Speaker 1: working on being a better adult. I really realize. My
Speaker 1: therapist and I have really been working on reparenting myself,
Speaker 1: which is really difficult when you're a real parent and
Speaker 1: you're parenting someone else. I'm like, wow, this is a
Speaker 1: lot of work, a lot of parenting happening. And yeah,
Speaker 1: part of that is making giving myself choice and sometimes
Speaker 1: I get done, sometimes they don't. I think a part
Speaker 1: of loving myself is also just really I've been focusing
Speaker 1: on when the shit doesn't get done. I think I
Speaker 1: wrote a note this was so important last night, and
Speaker 1: I couldn't sleep. It was like the things I write
Speaker 1: in my phone is that I think are important, and
Speaker 1: I go back, I'm like, what the fuck does this mean?
Speaker 1: I was like discipline, Wait, oh my god, where is
Speaker 1: I must see what I wrote. Reparenting and mothering myself
Speaker 1: simultaneously may require the most commitment, discipline and gentleness. Amen,
Speaker 1: Why am I writing this in the middle of the night.
Speaker 1: I have to write this down.
Speaker 3: Really need to remind yourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because that's what I've been doing. So I'm trying
Speaker 1: to be gentle with myself but also discipline, which yeah,
Speaker 1: it's difficult.
Speaker 3: I see it, I feel it, and you're glowing.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I appreciate that. By the time this actually
Speaker 1: comes out, will be topless and titties out in Costa
Speaker 1: Rica apparancing in the jungles, so I'll definitely be looking
Speaker 1: fine in the jungle.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So if you're not following us on Instagram and only
Speaker 2: listening to our sexy boyases, you should definitely go follow
Speaker 2: us at Good Mom's Underscore Bad Choices because there's definitely
Speaker 2: going to be a lot of nudity in our close
Speaker 2: friends if Instagram doesn't hate us and delete our account.
Speaker 2: If not, then maybe we'll start only fans in Costa Rica.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I know, I was thinking that, like,
Speaker 1: there's this new play made I don't all the Playboy
Speaker 1: Playboy OnlyFans. I don't know how you call it, but
Speaker 1: King Nowir and Jet Sunning Jasmin are on there, and
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, I think I missed the
Speaker 1: only fans wave, but I think that you.
Speaker 3: Can get on this one.
Speaker 1: I think I can get on this one that's called Centerfold.
Speaker 1: I'm like, is this my calling? Do I need to
Speaker 1: do yoga and naked on Centerfold? Is that even an option?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think it is. I think anything's an option.
Speaker 1: Oh God, I really do hope you get to I
Speaker 1: hope you started only fans while we're clostering my dream.
Speaker 1: Not really, but kind of, you know what it is.
Speaker 1: I was thinking about my nudity and I was looking
Speaker 1: at my own page and I was like, wow, I
Speaker 1: am naked a lot on here. It's true. It's eighty
Speaker 1: percent of my pictures are naked. I was like, God,
Speaker 1: those niggas who are talking shit to me weren't lying.
Speaker 1: And then I was thinking, why why do I need
Speaker 1: a lot of attention? I was like, no, bitch, you're
Speaker 1: just generally naked. So if you take a picture, you're
Speaker 1: gonna be naked. All your pictures are naked because you'll
Speaker 1: be naked. Yeah, so you know, it's always a battle
Speaker 1: just being your true self, titties out and et cetera,
Speaker 1: which brings me to our guest today.
Speaker 3: I like that transition.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Actually, my favorite titties out mom on Instagram
Speaker 1: is here with us again. For is there a third
Speaker 1: time or second time?
Speaker 3: Second we had her on. She came and hung out
Speaker 3: with us on a.
Speaker 1: Zoom, so it's our it's our second time. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: having be Leche here with us, Hi and aby akabriy
Speaker 1: and today it's very special because we're also joined by
Speaker 1: her husband, Daniels. The Lynches are here, are in the building,
Speaker 1: so we had breon.
Speaker 2: God, it was like the first year of podcast, I think,
Speaker 2: and she kind of shared what it was like to
Speaker 2: be in an open marriage with her husband and the
Speaker 2: process of that.
Speaker 1: And at that time they had they had one child,
Speaker 1: and I think shortly after that she got pregnant again.
Speaker 1: And Daniel's putting it down over there, I will see,
Speaker 1: and we've kind of like, you know, me and Erica,
Speaker 1: if you haven't noticed, are very nosy bitches, and we'll
Speaker 1: keep up with your life and all your business. And
Speaker 1: so we've been keeping up with you love that and
Speaker 1: all your badns. I know, we like touched some bases
Speaker 1: last time we had the zoom. I have so many
Speaker 1: questions because I know, like, okay, just to catch you
Speaker 1: up on Bay's status of her open marriage. You know,
Speaker 1: she was really like out there. She was dating mostly.
Speaker 1: It was like Daniel was having a hard time. He
Speaker 1: wasn't like finding anyone in the dating apps. And then update,
Speaker 1: Daniel had a woman. And not only was Daniel had
Speaker 1: a woman, you know, like I also follow you on
Speaker 1: Instagram where I also stalk you, but you know, I
Speaker 1: remember you expressing that the one I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's the same woman. Now you guys can like tell me,
Speaker 1: but she was like the crazy thing is is the
Speaker 1: woman that he found kind of looks like me.
Speaker 3: She's like artsy like me.
Speaker 1: I was like, God, can't she meet someone different? Right
Speaker 1: when you're telling me that, and you're like, but you
Speaker 1: kind of love her so and then I think I
Speaker 1: looked recently and then you had somebody too.
Speaker 5: To find somebody.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think that's it was, you know I think
Speaker 7: for me, like I really kind of took a break
Speaker 7: with mothering, Like I think I really underestimated how much
Speaker 7: I would love being a mom to babies and like
Speaker 7: how much I would be okay with my non monogamy not.
Speaker 8: Being I don't know, so active. It has been active,
Speaker 8: it just hasn't been so active. So for me, I'm
Speaker 8: kind of in a for twenty twenty two, I'm actually
Speaker 8: thinking about, like, Okay, what kind of relationships am I seeking?
Speaker 8: Because for us, we don't necessarily identify as polyamorous. So
Speaker 8: what that means for me is like I don't have
Speaker 8: to love everybody that I'm seeing, Like my non monogamy
Speaker 8: can definitely be more casual, just depending on what feels
Speaker 8: right for me in the season.
Speaker 5: Well, you said, for you, it's shifted a lot to
Speaker 5: more kind of virtual for yeah, I think that's such
Speaker 5: an old person thing.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think a lot of my non monogamy since
Speaker 8: I've had babies has like existed via like texting, which
Speaker 8: has been really fun and then only recently. Actually, you know, men,
Speaker 8: I'm more hetero than I want to be.
Speaker 1: That's just not this.
Speaker 8: Is most women who are pretty hetero feel this way.
Speaker 1: Is just like I have to be me.
Speaker 8: I'm one of them, right, I feel you so like
Speaker 8: I want girl?
Speaker 2: I what It's true, you're more your head you're more
Speaker 2: you're more hetero and you want to be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would like to be a little more lesbian
Speaker 1: because men get on my nerves and that's that's where
Speaker 1: that's where I'm better kind of I mean, no offense, Daniel,
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's not you. You find you find, you find.
Speaker 8: One, you find one good one, and the chances of
Speaker 8: like finding a second one that you really like enough
Speaker 8: to like to bay up is is challenging.
Speaker 5: And you thought you found not so good, not so good,
Speaker 5: it turns out.
Speaker 8: Really I know you can speak more about that if
Speaker 8: you want.
Speaker 1: But where I'm.
Speaker 6: At, but where I'm at now is I did start
Speaker 6: dating someone at the end of the year where there
Speaker 6: feels like there's some potential there and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 6: am I ready for like another boyfriend you say, last
Speaker 6: year or this year.
Speaker 1: At the end of the last okay, okay.
Speaker 8: Yeah, so so that's still like ramping up right now.
Speaker 8: It gets pretty new. And his name is also Daniel, so.
Speaker 1: That oh you know, Daniel and Daniel and he's also Sagittarius.
Speaker 8: Oh okay, yeah, so that's where my non monogamy is
Speaker 8: at right now. Otherwise, like I have play partners one
Speaker 8: in particular, but it hasn't been like super active. I've gone,
Speaker 8: I've had a lot of like really good first dates,
Speaker 8: but it's never good enough, you know what I mean.
Speaker 8: I'm just like, my time is precious right now, Like
Speaker 8: that was a good date, but.
Speaker 1: Not good enough.
Speaker 3: Do I really to do this again?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 8: Exactly, Yeah exactly. So that's kind of where I've been.
Speaker 8: And Daniel's actually enjoyed a more active season of non
Speaker 8: monogamy because I've just like really liked me home with Yeah,
Speaker 8: I'm like, yeah, you go ahead.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's been more that it started over the summer,
Speaker 5: feeling like a little bit more of a role reversal
Speaker 5: in that way. But most of my like I had
Speaker 5: like a couple of different connections that I was kind
Speaker 5: of cultivating throughout the fall that have sort of like
Speaker 5: some of them have kind of turned pages, Like some
Speaker 5: of them weren't really sustainable how they were kind of
Speaker 5: unfolding in the moment, so you know, and now I'm
Speaker 5: kind of back with like not a completely blank slate,
Speaker 5: but with a little bit more kind of armed with
Speaker 5: a little bit more self knowledge and armed with a
Speaker 5: little bit more of like the task of the daunting
Speaker 5: task of really figuring out what it is that I
Speaker 5: want and what it is that I'm looking for. So, yeah,
Speaker 5: is that.
Speaker 1: I have so many questions.
Speaker 2: Well before we get into all the essions, I think
Speaker 2: we've really jumped in. And I'm sure people are like.
Speaker 1: Wait, hold up, sorry, who are they?
Speaker 5: What is going on? How? No?
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, it's good.
Speaker 2: I mean that's just because like we know, we know
Speaker 2: you guys. We can have this conversation. But if you
Speaker 2: guys don't like we give you a little backstory on
Speaker 2: Bee and Daniel, I mean, or they can. But we
Speaker 2: met Bee over the internet, and By and Daniel have
Speaker 2: been in a non monogamous open marriage for how long
Speaker 2: eight years?
Speaker 8: But married we've been married for eight but we were
Speaker 8: open before we were married. Even so, we've been open
Speaker 8: for basically the duration of our whole relationship, which has
Speaker 8: been about twelve years now.
Speaker 5: Yeah, not always with like the label or the title
Speaker 5: on it, but like going back and examining the way
Speaker 5: in which we were doing things in those first couple
Speaker 5: of years, it did have like that spirit of openness.
Speaker 3: To and was this your first open relationship?
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, both of them? Right?
Speaker 1: I remember we were so young twenty one. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember Babe telling us that she you met Daniel
Speaker 1: when you're in another relationship and you loved the guy,
Speaker 1: but you also love Daniel and you had always cheated
Speaker 1: like in high school, and and you're like, you didn't
Speaker 1: understand why, you know, like there's this huge label of
Speaker 1: being a cheater when you can just love multiple people.
Speaker 1: And that was the kind of like word that thought began, right,
Speaker 1: And I just want to confirm because I said this
Speaker 1: and Eric was like, are you sure you guys met
Speaker 1: at Christian College?
Speaker 5: We did?
Speaker 1: I told you we did.
Speaker 8: Christian It's very we're very different people.
Speaker 5: Lead with that deeply as possible.
Speaker 1: Leave it for me to dig it up.
Speaker 3: Did you guys graduate? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's so beautiful Christian College love it is.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. They gott to bring it back.
Speaker 5: Back. They will not be putting us in like the
Speaker 5: alumni magazine.
Speaker 1: They will not.
Speaker 2: They should should well before we started this episode, you know,
Speaker 2: we always like to pull a card, and Daniel saying
Speaker 2: that he always pulled swords, and of course he did.
Speaker 3: It's not reversed. Your biggest so my love, my Tarot queen, Hello,
Speaker 3: tell us what called Daniels.
Speaker 1: So today we've pulled the four of Swords and we're
Speaker 1: pulled from the mahogany deck that we've been using by
Speaker 1: fellow Mama. So check that out. And basically the Four
Speaker 1: of Swords says it tells you to rest before you
Speaker 1: take on the next challenge. You have reached an important
Speaker 1: first milestone and must recharge your energy before the next
Speaker 1: phase begins, so you are refreshed and ready to go. Right,
Speaker 1: you just said that, you're kind of like, figure out
Speaker 1: what's happening over there weighing. Even if you are highly
Speaker 1: productive and driven, take time out from your busy schedule
Speaker 1: to restore your energy and heal the body and the mind.
Speaker 1: Constant stress and tension will break even the hardest and
Speaker 1: most resilient of people, but brief periods of rest enable
Speaker 1: you to refresh your energy, concentrate, and focus so that
Speaker 1: you are ready for the next challenge. If you've been
Speaker 1: going through tough times recently, such as a trauma or
Speaker 1: breakup or departure, relationship or family problems, financial or health worries,
Speaker 1: stress or conflict, then the Four of Swords comes as
Speaker 1: a sign to take a step back and regain perspective,
Speaker 1: take a day off of work, travel to a new destination,
Speaker 1: or spend time with your loved ones, whatever you need
Speaker 1: to do to take a break. Now is the time
Speaker 1: to make decisions, okay, Danielle.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's why I haven't been doing shit.
Speaker 3: Check it in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the swords usually deal with intellect and decision making
Speaker 1: and those type of things, so that makes sense. Yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of that.
Speaker 8: I think you're definitely in a period of transition, like personally,
Speaker 8: so that makes a.
Speaker 1: Lot of sense.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I sign off on that.
Speaker 8: And it mentioned breakup, which is also Yeah, I mean
Speaker 8: that's true.
Speaker 5: But like I mean mostly what the entire fall, in
Speaker 5: the entire season of really like exploring a little bit
Speaker 5: more depth in my connections and in my relationships was
Speaker 5: like it really illuminated a lot about I don't know,
Speaker 5: my deepest sort of like boss level shit that I've
Speaker 5: got to conquer. So I don't know, like it would
Speaker 5: it ended up being a lot of lessons about like
Speaker 5: in the context of that like a relationship, but ultimately
Speaker 5: like it kind of transferred itself to really revealing a
Speaker 5: lot to me about myself. Some of it good, some
Speaker 5: of it not so good, but all I don't know,
Speaker 5: in the service of being better and getting better.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that people underestimate how much different relationships,
Speaker 1: even in friendships, actually are a reflect like can be
Speaker 1: a reflection for yourself and.
Speaker 8: Likely seeing me talk about that.
Speaker 1: You know, like like the more you interact with different people,
Speaker 1: different versions of yourself come up and different lessons and like,
Speaker 1: and then you're like, damn, who am I? This is
Speaker 1: what I want? Like because now you're you've met someone
Speaker 1: new and it's kind of triggered these different things about yourself,
Speaker 1: you know, and like so often in traditional monogamous relationships,
Speaker 1: not that I'm downting traditional monogamous relationships works.
Speaker 8: For some people.
Speaker 1: It works for some people, works for some people, but
Speaker 1: sometimes like maybe I don't want to say that you stuck,
Speaker 1: like you stuck your limited your you're stunted your growth.
Speaker 8: But because well, it really depends on how people conduct
Speaker 8: their monogamy. But the vast majority of folks conduct their
Speaker 8: monogamy in a way that yes, it does stunt.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 2: I remember on our episode you were talking about limiting
Speaker 2: your love, Like if I asked Daniel to limit his
Speaker 2: love with with this other person, then it ultimately that
Speaker 2: affects me and how he shows up for me, and
Speaker 2: like limit and it comes up in so many ways,
Speaker 2: like limiting you know how many people whatever, whether you're
Speaker 2: monogamous or not, but like even your capacity to love.
Speaker 2: You don't have to be sexually active with someone to
Speaker 2: have an intimate relationship intimate relationship. But I think often
Speaker 2: even in monogamy, we close off even that to the
Speaker 2: other opposite.
Speaker 1: It becomes threatening. It becomes threatening.
Speaker 8: Yeah, it becomes threatening, which is toxic monogamy culture. It's
Speaker 8: not how everyone does monogamy, but it is how most
Speaker 8: people do it. And that's one of the things that's
Speaker 8: most unappealing about it for me is like I personally
Speaker 8: like really value growth and I I really I want
Speaker 8: to keep changing throughout this one life that I maybe
Speaker 8: have on the earth. I don't want to stop just
Speaker 8: because I got married when we were in our early twenties,
Speaker 8: and non monogamy has been a huge, maybe the biggest
Speaker 8: part besides the motherhood of my personal growth journey.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think that the way that we first
Speaker 5: approached non monogamy for us, it wasn't like, I mean, yeah,
Speaker 5: the sex with other people is appealing, right, that's kind
Speaker 5: of why you sign up for it in some ways.
Speaker 1: Wait, maybe that's.
Speaker 5: It also stemmed from seeing and feeling kind of the
Speaker 5: wrongness of being like okay, being at a wedding and
Speaker 5: feel like the geometry of the dance floor kind of
Speaker 5: get defined by like couples who are not just like
Speaker 5: like sexually monogamous, but like even like will shut off
Speaker 5: like like twelve energetically, like the twelve steps, or that's
Speaker 5: not the best number for it, like the thirteen steps
Speaker 5: that lead up to having sex with someone.
Speaker 2: Right, let me, dancing with you doesn't mean immediately you're
Speaker 2: putting your dick in me, like we're just we're dancing
Speaker 2: and sharing energy.
Speaker 3: But like you people like when you were related, you
Speaker 3: don't can't. We can't dance with anyone else.
Speaker 5: I think most people voluntarily kind of surrender that.
Speaker 8: Right, It's not even something said, yeah.
Speaker 5: It's kind of a cultural expectation that, like monogamy also
Speaker 5: entails all of these other hyper rigid forms of like
Speaker 5: self control or self policing, or unavailability, unavailable an availability
Speaker 5: to people in the world around you.
Speaker 1: And then it's marketed as well. I mean, I want
Speaker 1: to make you comfortable. I don't want to make him uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: It's always marketed that way, like, well, don't you want
Speaker 1: to make me comfortable?
Speaker 2: They market both both sexes different ways too, Like men
Speaker 2: are like these men that can't help themselves.
Speaker 3: So you don't approach a man and like.
Speaker 2: Be appealing dance with him, because he'll automatically assume he
Speaker 2: wants to sleep with you, which I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean, maybe it's a fifty fifties thing there.
Speaker 2: And then when any woman that would approach a man
Speaker 2: who's clearly here with another woman in joy and dance must.
Speaker 1: Be a hub and conversation, right right, you know, it's
Speaker 1: just like.
Speaker 2: We can't just all enjoy ourselves exactly and not want
Speaker 2: to have sex. But also maybe, I mean I've literally
Speaker 2: seen men like, oh my god, this happened to us.
Speaker 2: We were at a fucking wedding and we were asked
Speaker 2: to move some chairs and they were big ass shares
Speaker 2: and was in the desert. It was a long distance,
Speaker 2: lots of men, Me and.
Speaker 1: This bitch carrying three stacked chairs in heels in the dirt. Men, men, men,
Speaker 1: they were with women.
Speaker 8: Now not one man, see that's a perfect one man
Speaker 8: was like.
Speaker 1: Hey, let me help you. No, Like, my bitch is
Speaker 1: not about to cuss me out for helping this bitch.
Speaker 1: They watched us carry those motherfucking chairs go.
Speaker 5: I was like.
Speaker 1: Audacity. I was like, if that was my man, I
Speaker 1: would be fucking embarrassed.
Speaker 3: I was pissed. I was pissed.
Speaker 2: I was like, kind of fucking men, they see us
Speaker 2: with these stilettos, this.
Speaker 1: Dirt, They looked scared as hell. They didn't look out
Speaker 1: in our direction. Okay, they held their bitches hands and
Speaker 1: they didn't look at didn't like what they're like, you're mine,
Speaker 1: you better look at that bitch. I don't care IF's struggling.
Speaker 1: I don't care if she falls.
Speaker 8: I think that's a good example. And like another thing
Speaker 8: for us is just how it breaks down community, like
Speaker 8: monogamy breaks down community.
Speaker 5: Wow, that's you can't see. You can't see like a
Speaker 5: basic human need of carrying multiple heavy chairs across Like
Speaker 5: it's a basic you know, it's a situation where there's
Speaker 5: a basic human need there, right, and you won't even
Speaker 5: recognize it.
Speaker 3: Right, It's true. I mean I think it does.
Speaker 2: It's like it does break down like that community effort,
Speaker 2: the community help that it's just like we're all in
Speaker 2: it together and we all need help, and like we
Speaker 2: all need love all can experience each other's different versions
Speaker 2: of love.
Speaker 3: You know, like I never.
Speaker 2: Really thought about it that way, but that's so that's
Speaker 2: really interesting.
Speaker 1: I know we like, okay, we had briefly discussed that
Speaker 1: this episode was going to be like the five ways
Speaker 1: to successfully open in your marriage, or like know, if
Speaker 1: it's time, and I think maybe that's step one. Do
Speaker 1: you have a need to to like broaden your community
Speaker 1: and continue to grow as an individual, Maybe that's something
Speaker 1: that applies to you, and it's time, that's how you know,
Speaker 1: like do we both have this same goal in mind
Speaker 1: to grow in this way and to like make our
Speaker 1: community broad and comfortable in this way? Because you know,
Speaker 1: I was talking about it. For us, it makes so
Speaker 1: much fucking sense, right, like love thy neighbor show up,
Speaker 1: you know, like you could like I'm a very intimate
Speaker 1: person that way, Like I like to cuddle people like
Speaker 1: like like it doesn't necessarily.
Speaker 3: Have to for me.
Speaker 1: It is intimate, but it's friendly, like we're getting close,
Speaker 1: you know, like I have even in my friendships, I've
Speaker 1: always said this, like I want my man to be
Speaker 1: able to like be a protector of my friends too,
Speaker 1: Like if my friend comes and gets in the bed
Speaker 1: with us, like cuddle us. Yeah, you know, like I don't,
Speaker 1: like I want to feel that love and also feel
Speaker 1: the trust, you know, like, and I think when people
Speaker 1: put all this pressure like that's my man, that's my man,
Speaker 1: I don't care if you're my friend. It's like, bitch,
Speaker 1: I'm your friend, so right, Like you don't think I'm
Speaker 1: a run off into the sunset, which you're richer man,
Speaker 1: Like I hope not, but like.
Speaker 3: That's exactly why I don't care if you're my friendly.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Actually, and that's always been so weird to me totally,
Speaker 1: you know, Like and obviously for some people listening and
Speaker 1: for a lot of my friends are like, bitch, you're weird,
Speaker 1: and get the fuck away from my nigger, you know,
Speaker 1: and please don't take your titties out. And for me,
Speaker 1: it's just like intimacy, and like, I really I want
Speaker 1: you to spend time with my friends and get to
Speaker 1: know them and like them and have a personal relationship
Speaker 1: because it's my friend, and I think that they're cool,
Speaker 1: and I think that you're cool, and I think that
Speaker 1: that makes sense, you know, whereas like I have even
Speaker 1: though I've been in relationships and known people for years,
Speaker 1: even with you know, and they're like, why are you
Speaker 1: talking to him? Why are you getting I'm like, ask
Speaker 1: you about his grandma?
Speaker 3: What the fuck?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 8: Yeah, And I think you're hitting on Another reason that
Speaker 8: we really love non monogamy is it forces you to
Speaker 8: inquire a little more deeply, like why do you feel
Speaker 8: those things? You know so like for your friends, like
Speaker 8: why do you feel so threatened by me? I don't
Speaker 8: know having my tits sound front of your But like
Speaker 8: what non monogamy.
Speaker 2: Forces you to do is like it's actually totally normal.
Speaker 3: Actually that's one of the problems.
Speaker 5: For me.
Speaker 8: But okay, conversal, let's let's back it up conversation like
Speaker 8: why why can't I have a conversation with your husband
Speaker 8: without you there? Like why does that actually bother you?
Speaker 8: Like what is the deeper reason? And non monogamy forces
Speaker 8: you to grapple with those questions and to do that
Speaker 8: deep work that you wouldn't have to do otherwise.
Speaker 1: And it's so true some.
Speaker 3: People don't want to do it though, that's the reason.
Speaker 8: That's exactly exactly.
Speaker 3: It's like, ooh, I don't.
Speaker 8: I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't want to.
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have to. If you're mine, I shouldn't have
Speaker 1: to think about exactly. That's not it's not about why
Speaker 1: I feel uncofortable? Is that why your chips have to
Speaker 1: be out? Like it's you that you're the problem, not me,
Speaker 1: And like that's just a lot of people don't want
Speaker 1: to dissect jealousy and like it's never jealousy, it's something else.
Speaker 1: It's an underlying thing. There's not You're just not just jealous,
Speaker 1: you know. Like this happened to me this week. I
Speaker 1: have a lover, Orlando, and he is in New York,
Speaker 1: like living his best life, and he's always like checking
Speaker 1: and telling me things. And the other day and he's
Speaker 1: also has a podcast. So the other day I was
Speaker 1: scrolling and he was talking someone one of his people
Speaker 1: that he has like a relationship with, also has a podcast,
Speaker 1: and I'm scrolling past her podcast and I see her
Speaker 1: talking about a sexual encounter and I'm like, I'm like
Speaker 1: waiting to see if she's gonna say who it is, yeah,
Speaker 1: and then she does, and then I was annoyed. I
Speaker 1: was like I'm annoyed, and I was like I'm gonna
Speaker 1: have to check in with this. I'm gonna have to
Speaker 1: figure out why I'm so annoyed. I'm like, first of all,
Speaker 1: this is what I do as a podcaster, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: this is what anyone dating me has to deal with.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I don't like that. Don't date you.
Speaker 1: What you're asking people for you can't handle. Okay, perfect.
Speaker 8: I was like, that's one of your late night notes
Speaker 8: in your phone, right right.
Speaker 2: I would have loved to scroll through your notes an
Speaker 2: episode scroll that would be good.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's so deep in there, it's so emo,
Speaker 1: so much to do. Yeah, episodes, it's so emo. But
Speaker 1: you know, I text him, I was like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to check in with myself. I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm just telling you, not that it's an issue.
Speaker 8: It's me.
Speaker 1: It's a me issue. But I was thinking, I'm happy
Speaker 1: to have this relationship where I can address myself and
Speaker 1: then address it out loud to someone else, and then
Speaker 1: together we could work through what was the problem, Where
Speaker 1: is the issue lying? And like, the more you explore
Speaker 1: and sit in the feeling of like that annoyed me
Speaker 1: because immediately I was like, but how do.
Speaker 3: You guys work through jealousy, Like, is that something that
Speaker 3: you guys encounter a lot? Is it like throughout the years?
Speaker 3: Does it get better over time or I think yes
Speaker 3: and no.
Speaker 8: The thing that's interesting for me about it is that
Speaker 8: every connection will potentially like trigger different things for you,
Speaker 8: Like each person that your partner dates, just depending on
Speaker 8: who they are, and then also depending on where you're at,
Speaker 8: you know, how you're doing personally, maybe it'll trigger you
Speaker 8: more or less or what you got going on if
Speaker 8: I'm dating you know, somebody else, and it feels like
Speaker 8: kind of even There's a lot of factors. So that's
Speaker 8: been my experience with it throughout yeah time.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I think for myself, I've definitely gone
Speaker 5: through like seasons where I engage it more readily, like
Speaker 5: the jealousy and want to know kind of what's under it.
Speaker 5: I'll also go through seasons of like total avoidance mode
Speaker 5: with it, like or even like denial of jealousy, you know,
Speaker 5: because it's it's easier to just kind of, you know,
Speaker 5: say that you don't feel jealousy, that you don't experience it,
Speaker 5: but really like what you're doing is kind of numbing
Speaker 5: yourself and so like, and then that needs working through,
Speaker 5: and so I kind of will oscillate back and forth
Speaker 5: between those seasons. And sometimes when you think you're confronting
Speaker 5: jealousy in a real and authentic way, actually you take
Speaker 5: a better assessment of it and you're like, nah, I
Speaker 5: think I was not really facing what it was making
Speaker 5: me feel.
Speaker 2: Times it's usually, like you said, what you're facing is
Speaker 2: something like within you, it has nothing to do with her, right,
Speaker 2: So do would you say that non monogamy also has
Speaker 2: like kind of helped you tap into certain parts that
Speaker 2: you need to heal within yourself, right percent.
Speaker 5: I'll say a thousand percent.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean I think this has kind of been
Speaker 8: on our minds a lot lately on the back of
Speaker 8: Daniel's last relationship, which you kind of touched on earlier.
Speaker 8: I think it was his most intense relationship that he's
Speaker 8: experienced since we've been open, so it's right, yeah, or.
Speaker 5: That I've allowed myself to experience.
Speaker 8: Yeah, So that was just a really it was just
Speaker 8: really rich with a lot of learning for both of
Speaker 8: us because I'm like, whoa, you really like this person?
Speaker 8: Like this hasn't happened before, Like, because you'll go on
Speaker 8: his dates and it'll have a good time, but like,
Speaker 8: this is the first person I was like, oh, you
Speaker 8: really like her, Like, oh okayah Saw, So I'm so
Speaker 8: happy for you.
Speaker 5: So I was.
Speaker 8: And I think that was so good for us though,
Speaker 8: because it flipped the script on like what we've been
Speaker 8: mostly dealing with, because I've had deeper connections in the
Speaker 8: past than he has, so we've kind of been on
Speaker 8: the opposite side prior, and so it was really good
Speaker 8: to both get to see the other side where I'm like, whoa,
Speaker 8: you had to deal with this. This is hard, Like
Speaker 8: my feelings are a little hurd like having to deal
Speaker 8: you dealt with this, like, oh my god, thank you.
Speaker 8: And and then for him, like whoa, you had to
Speaker 8: navigate like two different people's feelings and your own, Like
Speaker 8: that's really.
Speaker 5: Hard beside what it is you feel.
Speaker 8: Yeah, And so it was really this latest relationship for us,
Speaker 8: I think taught us the most that that and he
Speaker 8: has so far.
Speaker 1: At least in a while.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but ultimately most I mean for me, most of
Speaker 5: those lessons are about myself, you know, and like I mean,
Speaker 5: I think one of the things that being non monogamous
Speaker 5: and like reaching these deeper levels of it with one another.
Speaker 5: Has has really taught me, is I think I could
Speaker 5: have gone through like a lifelong I might have been
Speaker 5: able to go through a lifelong monogamous lesson, just like
Speaker 5: a relationship, just feeling content in, satisfied and assured of
Speaker 5: my good guyness, you know, and like feeling good about
Speaker 5: the ways in which I questioned patriarchy, feeling good about
Speaker 5: the ways in which, like I felt myself to be
Speaker 5: a feminist. But like when you really put yourself kind
Speaker 5: of on the line like this and allow yourself to
Speaker 5: encounter those feelings of jealousy, and what's actually underneath them,
Speaker 5: like actually underneath them, is that like a desire to control?
Speaker 5: Like you know, is this a fear of like letting
Speaker 5: you express like your fullest and most authentic part of yourself?
Speaker 5: You know, Like, I guess it's really made clear for
Speaker 5: me how deep the imprint of like toxic masculinity and
Speaker 5: misogyny and all of that stuff is. And yeah, that's
Speaker 5: not like a particularly fun thing to say, but I
Speaker 5: mean I think.
Speaker 1: Seeve, I'm telling you, we got no I mean, but yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah to all that, I.
Speaker 2: Think too, I mean obviously, I mean even talking about
Speaker 2: toxic masculinity. I mean, some men might some look at
Speaker 2: you and are like, oh my god, this is the ship.
Speaker 2: Like you're a guy and your wife lets you fuck
Speaker 2: other girls?
Speaker 3: Like oh, and that's the fucking score man. And then
Speaker 3: they like what does she fuck other guys?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 3: And you're like yeah and they're like.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: It's like it's because I think too, I think men
Speaker 2: this would at least what I've heard from here from men,
Speaker 2: and I think women are this way too in ways,
Speaker 2: but they're such a visual creature, so like when they
Speaker 2: think about, like, you know, sex, they immediately visualize it.
Speaker 3: And the visual of it of a woman possibly.
Speaker 1: Like receiving somebody else's intimacy is just like the ultimate
Speaker 1: ego kill for a man. And I guess we've learned
Speaker 1: and been a condition to believe like what the man
Speaker 1: manhood is, you know, like that they control and that
Speaker 1: they you're.
Speaker 3: Exclusive to them.
Speaker 1: And even in that me scrolling, I was like I
Speaker 1: wanted something exclusive and I'm like, oh my god, I've
Speaker 1: heard men say this to me. I was like only
Speaker 1: saying shit, and I was like, oh, I just want
Speaker 1: you to be like selected, and I'm like I was
Speaker 1: like I was like trying to host shame him. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to host shame you.
Speaker 5: Just let me.
Speaker 1: Oh god, I hate how I sound.
Speaker 8: That's so good for you.
Speaker 5: I know.
Speaker 1: I feel like and I even like last year. We
Speaker 1: started hanging out last year and I was jealous. He
Speaker 1: had another lover at that time, and it was a
Speaker 1: rift in their relationship because I don't think there anyone
Speaker 1: else had come along, and I was experiencing jealousy about
Speaker 1: certain things. But I'm the type like Daniel. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm too cool to acknowledge it. I don't care, and
Speaker 1: in fact, like in my mind I care, but I'm
Speaker 1: like I was cool. I'm just gonna get somebody like
Speaker 1: it's cool, like I don't really care that much because
Speaker 1: I don't really care about them. It's not that serious.
Speaker 1: I knew I was like in love five minutes ago.
Speaker 1: But I can see how much I've grown in just
Speaker 1: a year, even in like a long distance like friendship
Speaker 1: that I could just call you and be like, oh,
Speaker 1: I forgot to tell you. It was really triggered. I
Speaker 1: trid to mention how trick I was. He's like why,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know I'm working through it.
Speaker 2: I know, I don't know how to shut the fuck
Speaker 2: up about my feelings to the people that I love.
Speaker 2: It's so annoying, and like, I don't know, I think
Speaker 2: I'm not non monogamous per se. I don't really know
Speaker 2: what I am because I'm not in a relationship right now.
Speaker 2: But I think that just being open to talking to
Speaker 2: the people that you love and your partners about how
Speaker 2: you're feeling, especially has been I mean, especially when you
Speaker 2: are together, like it becomes like you can't even keep
Speaker 2: things in anymore. I mean, I'm sure like you guys,
Speaker 2: you know, share a lot, and I mean even talk
Speaker 2: to you talking about the situation that kind of opened
Speaker 2: you guys up and like you know, allowed you to.
Speaker 3: Have to face certain things, and you to face certain things.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people like their questions why
Speaker 2: people open up the relationship is like, well, when you
Speaker 2: open up a relationship, you open up a can of worms,
Speaker 2: and inevitably, like you open up the opportunity or the
Speaker 2: possibility that your partner could potentially leave you right like
Speaker 2: they might experience another unlock, some other version of love
Speaker 2: that they're ready to go deep in, and like you know,
Speaker 2: what is your thoughts on that or like, I'm sure
Speaker 2: you guys have had these conversations before, Like, yeah, I
Speaker 2: think for.
Speaker 8: Me, and this is what I tell folks because I
Speaker 8: coach other folks on their non monogamous journeys. Ultimately, you
Speaker 8: just have to accept that possibility, right, And then you
Speaker 8: also have to remember that even in monogamy, there are
Speaker 8: things outside of your control. Like even in a monogamous relationship, Yeah,
Speaker 8: your partner could leave you for somebody else, that's still
Speaker 8: an option. Your partner could just decide they don't want
Speaker 8: to be with you anymore. Your partner could I don't know,
Speaker 8: pass away, Like, yeah, there's lots of things that could
Speaker 8: happen where that same outcome is there. So I say
Speaker 8: that first of all, like okay, But then second of all,
Speaker 8: and I think I might have said this the first
Speaker 8: time we chatted a long time ago. Is you have
Speaker 8: to trust that you love your partner so much that
Speaker 8: wouldn't you want that for them? Like if Daniel met
Speaker 8: a woman that was a better fit for him, then
Speaker 8: I am like, WHOA, because we're.
Speaker 1: A good fit.
Speaker 5: So like if that even said that to myself, by
Speaker 5: the way, I mean, you have it.
Speaker 4: No, bitch.
Speaker 5: For the record, I would not be happy for you,
Speaker 5: not the same.
Speaker 1: Well, that's fine.
Speaker 5: I aspire to it.
Speaker 1: I aspired, and I think that's good. And I mean,
Speaker 1: am I all the way there?
Speaker 8: Like if it were to happen tomorrow, what I would
Speaker 8: just be completely okay with it?
Speaker 5: Of course not.
Speaker 8: But I think in like my most highest self and
Speaker 8: who I want to be, that's.
Speaker 1: What I would want for you.
Speaker 8: I want you to be happy ultimately, I want I
Speaker 8: love you so much. I really I want your ultimate
Speaker 8: happiness and if that means being with somebody else.
Speaker 1: And that's what I mean.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, I'd say the cant like the can of worms
Speaker 5: that you're electing to open up is also like unraveling
Speaker 5: all of that. Yeah, your partner's gonna sleep with other people, Like, yeah,
Speaker 5: they're going to be swept up in kind of a
Speaker 5: new relationship energy with somebody else, and like you're gonna
Speaker 5: have moments of like truly terrifying insecurity. But also like
Speaker 5: what else is in that can of worms or like
Speaker 5: all of the other things that you suppress in your
Speaker 5: self expression, like all of the other things that like,
Speaker 5: I mean, one of the things that it that uh
Speaker 5: an early kind of an early experience in our nominogamy,
Speaker 5: or like when you had your more extended relationship, is
Speaker 5: that really taught me about like my own sense of
Speaker 5: like judgment with creativity and like the way in which
Speaker 5: I'm kind of a hater and I like just like
Speaker 5: or had been and had been and stifled my own
Speaker 5: creativity because of that. I stifled your creativity because of that.
Speaker 5: But like that was a can of worms that we
Speaker 5: opened that was like on the surface, it's about her
Speaker 5: sleeping with somebody else and having a relationship with somebody else.
Speaker 5: But actually, by getting in there, I also found that
Speaker 5: other thing at the bottom of it, and which to
Speaker 5: me is yeah, there's lots on the bottom. It's like
Speaker 5: whatever you find, if you move through it, your relationship
Speaker 5: is most likely going to be better served. Like it's
Speaker 5: going to serve your relationship better for it if you
Speaker 5: can get through it, if.
Speaker 1: You can get if you can get the way you
Speaker 1: just dissected, just broke that ship down.
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm getting emotional that wondering, am I
Speaker 3: going to cry?
Speaker 5: I'm feel like you thought of a cloudy boy these days, Daniel.
Speaker 1: Right now, cloudy boy, I like him. I don't know
Speaker 1: what that means.
Speaker 2: I think that's so beautiful and really thinking about it
Speaker 2: that way, that like, yeah, if you open up those
Speaker 2: can of worms, but yeah, ship might happen, but you
Speaker 2: might and some other ship that has nothing even to
Speaker 2: do with that person and it has everything to do
Speaker 2: with you and hopefully like you're like the journey and
Speaker 2: like this the expression of who you are at your
Speaker 2: most authentic self.
Speaker 8: Yeah, and that's I think that's been. Did you want
Speaker 8: to say something, sorry, No, you go first. With this
Speaker 8: past connection that Daniel had, I told you, it was
Speaker 8: like the most intense one we've we've he's had so far,
Speaker 8: and it brought up a lot for me. And the
Speaker 8: intensity of the cannon worms, so to speak, was like,
Speaker 8: so it was so intense, and I had my first
Speaker 8: nervous breakdown. Actually, oh yeah, I had my first nervous breakdown.
Speaker 8: And then and you also had.
Speaker 1: Like a week later or before days.
Speaker 5: I can't remember which nervous I remember a couple.
Speaker 8: But in that week of time, the things that we
Speaker 8: were able to like discover within ourselves a lot of
Speaker 8: it for the first time, like naming it to ourselves
Speaker 8: for the first time, and then bringing it to each
Speaker 8: other and being like, oh, look at this thing. It's
Speaker 8: ugly and doing that with one another, and then like
Speaker 8: seeing that we loved each other in spite of those ugly,
Speaker 8: ugly things. That is what brought us to this new
Speaker 8: level of depth that I feel like we've achieved.
Speaker 1: In the past year.
Speaker 8: Is really that week, honestly is like reaching new depths
Speaker 8: of ugliness and bringing it to each other and being like, Oh,
Speaker 8: you still love me and I still love you.
Speaker 3: That's so beautiful.
Speaker 1: It is beautiful things.
Speaker 8: I don't know what you're gonna say.
Speaker 5: It's kind of going back but good or just about
Speaker 5: it's just about the question. It's just about the question
Speaker 5: of like, oh, doesn't opening up your marriage open up
Speaker 5: that can of worms and saying like, well, underneath that
Speaker 5: is like some more harmful shit. That's actually like if
Speaker 5: we wouldn't have been brave enough to kind of open up,
Speaker 5: and if I wouldn't have been brave enough to at
Speaker 5: least do the minimal of numbing my emotions through that,
Speaker 5: through that relationship of yours, we would not have gotten
Speaker 5: to that other thing that ultimately would have ended our relationship.
Speaker 5: Like me, but like that the sort of sense of
Speaker 5: like judgment.
Speaker 3: And like suppressing her heart and all the thing.
Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, her creative impulses, my creative impulses along with it,
Speaker 5: Like that would have done us.
Speaker 1: In, you know, eventually, like that same very thing that
Speaker 1: you have, don't you don't acknowledge, well, it could eventually
Speaker 1: be the very If he didn't open.
Speaker 3: The can of worms, he never would have found that,
Speaker 3: and then it would have fucked the whole thing up.
Speaker 5: It would have and it probably would have done us
Speaker 5: in in like a much more a much slower death,
Speaker 5: in a much more harmful way that we wouldn't have
Speaker 5: been able to put our finger on.
Speaker 8: Right, What is this?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think like in talking about like the stunting
Speaker 1: of love, you know, it's it's so relative. It's easy
Speaker 1: to understud I mean for some people to understand that,
Speaker 1: but I I never thought about it in the terms
Speaker 1: of other things in us that we judge other people
Speaker 1: and then therefore stunted in ourselves. Like if you're being
Speaker 1: judgmental towards somebody else for whatever reason it is, whatever
Speaker 1: reason you justify it, because we all do it, then
Speaker 1: in reality you're holding yourself in that same capacity. And
Speaker 1: so it's also stunting though, Like you said, creativity, You know,
Speaker 1: I'm hating on whatever what I think is weird creative
Speaker 1: shit you're dreaming over there. But in fact, because i'm
Speaker 1: judging you, I'm limiting the things that I'm creating because
Speaker 1: i'm judging. The judgment is their period, because I think
Speaker 1: it has to be this level of cool to be
Speaker 1: executed or whatever the fuck. And that was like such
Speaker 1: a beautiful way of putting that, because I, first of all,
Speaker 1: it's hard for anyone to be like, oh, this is
Speaker 1: the part of me that's ugly. And then you're right,
Speaker 1: it's always about acceptance. Are you still going to love
Speaker 1: me after I dig towards if I'm willing to dig
Speaker 1: towards it and then I figure it out, are you
Speaker 1: still going to love me and keep me? Or are
Speaker 1: you're going to want to run? I think everyone, really
Speaker 1: there's always a level of fear of abandonment, oh entirely.
Speaker 8: And I think the amount of healing though that you
Speaker 8: do and when you are able to get to that
Speaker 8: point is so deep. It's so deep when you're like,
Speaker 8: oh my god, this thing that I don't even want
Speaker 8: to say to myself. And I said it and now
Speaker 8: I'm saying it to you and you still love me,
Speaker 8: Like that is the best feeling.
Speaker 3: It's it's so intimate, it's so intimate.
Speaker 2: It's like the most intimacy I feel like that you
Speaker 2: can really have when you can do that with someone.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 8: Yeah, And as I said, I feel like we've reached
Speaker 8: new levels of vulnerability recently because of that.
Speaker 2: So is that relationship over and like how does that
Speaker 2: even work? Like how do like do you actually meet
Speaker 2: each other hang out with one another? Like what are
Speaker 2: the do you have like these rules in your and
Speaker 2: how you're we're learning what we want for that not
Speaker 2: what you were going to say, That's not what I
Speaker 2: was going to say.
Speaker 8: Maybe you're learning. No, I think it's been different for
Speaker 8: each person. Once again, like it's different for each person.
Speaker 5: I don't think that's different. That's different from what I said.
Speaker 8: Come on now, we said we're learning.
Speaker 5: I know, like to try it this way with this connection,
Speaker 5: this way, with this connection.
Speaker 3: No, I think what we prefer is.
Speaker 8: I think what I prefer in an ideal situation is
Speaker 8: a level of friendliness for sure. And like we've definitely
Speaker 8: had some of Daniel's girlfriends like over like often and
Speaker 8: like hanging out the three of us with the kids
Speaker 8: running around, or like we like before the pandemic, we
Speaker 8: enjoyed hosting a lot, so we'd have, you know, one
Speaker 8: I remember one brunch we had like two of your
Speaker 8: girlfriends that were there, and like hanging around one of
Speaker 8: my play partners, and like everyone's just kind of there,
Speaker 8: like chilling, and it's not a big deal. Like I
Speaker 8: think that's definitely my preferends. But with this last connection
Speaker 8: that Daniel had, because it was the most I'd ever
Speaker 8: been triggered, I found that I was a little more
Speaker 8: like nervous or has a tent to like to get
Speaker 8: to know her. So I think it just depends on
Speaker 8: each connection, but I think we do have a way
Speaker 8: that we prefer it. But it also is like contextual
Speaker 8: a bit.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think every well, when I said that
Speaker 5: we're still kind of learning, I think every connection teaches.
Speaker 3: You that the boundaries.
Speaker 5: This wasn't this wasn't my favorite aspect of that. That
Speaker 5: as this wasn't my favorite aspect of that.
Speaker 1: So even though you were kind of triggered by that
Speaker 1: relationship and by her and so it kind of made
Speaker 1: you less like eventually did you did being around her
Speaker 1: more often like kind of make it more comfortable or
Speaker 1: did you just kind of avoid it altogether? Well, she
Speaker 1: was really we were.
Speaker 8: Her schedules made it difficult, so that was kind of
Speaker 8: the main thing. It was just like she was a
Speaker 8: mom as well, so she was busy. And then it
Speaker 8: was also on the shorter side like it was. It
Speaker 8: was a it was kind of a hot, fast but
Speaker 8: short connection, which is so we didn't have a lot
Speaker 8: of time. I think it would have gone that way,
Speaker 8: but but it didn't.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was just incompatible seasons in our individual kind
Speaker 5: of live family lives, is what it?
Speaker 2: How do you being both of you being parents honestly
Speaker 2: because you have kids together you parent, how do you
Speaker 2: navigate with that? Like as far as like I know
Speaker 2: your bait, your kids are really young, but eventually they'll
Speaker 2: be older, Like have you thought about that?
Speaker 8: And how Yeah, yeah, we have The way that we
Speaker 8: like to conduct our friendships is also kind of like
Speaker 8: how you talked about how you conduct your your friendships formula,
Speaker 8: Like we are really affectionate with our friends and we
Speaker 8: have kind of like an open door policy with a
Speaker 8: lot of our friends or people just like pop in
Speaker 8: and they're over and we're all hanging out. And I
Speaker 8: think that the way that we think about it is
Speaker 8: is we hope that our relationships that are people that
Speaker 8: were purely platonic with versus people that were maybe fucking
Speaker 8: or people that were romantic with, that's not really distinguishable
Speaker 8: to our kids. So like there's no reason to be
Speaker 8: so explicit or forthcoming to them with like, oh, this
Speaker 8: is my boyfriend who like, fuck, this is my boyfriend
Speaker 8: who I don't know. It's like they don't you dad exactly.
Speaker 1: It's like they don't need they don't need to know that.
Speaker 8: And and I think that actually there's other polyamorous influencers
Speaker 8: on the GRAM that I in my opinion there they
Speaker 8: do too much with that, Like your kids don't need
Speaker 8: to know all the details of your life until they ask,
Speaker 8: until they're ready to know. It needs to be developmentally
Speaker 8: appropriate or actually or else you're actually doing more harm
Speaker 8: and giving them anxiety. They don't need to know that
Speaker 8: your parents their parents are non monogamous when they're in kindergarten.
Speaker 1: Just go to school and like let their let.
Speaker 8: Their friends know, and then like that doesn't not need
Speaker 8: to happen. So I think the way we're handling it is,
Speaker 8: but just trusting that because we're fostering a really open
Speaker 8: communication line with them, that when if they have questions,
Speaker 8: when they're ready, they'll ask and then we'll be ready
Speaker 8: to answer.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, I mean just in the same way
Speaker 5: that you don't feel the need to define your other
Speaker 5: relationships in front of your kids or to your kids,
Speaker 5: like are your other friendships the same thinking about it
Speaker 5: the same way, And I think even asking the question
Speaker 5: of like, oh, well, how do you explain this to
Speaker 5: your parents or to your kids is almost like a
Speaker 5: symptom of the way in which we put like sexual
Speaker 5: romantic relationships like really hot like as like that at
Speaker 5: the top of the hierarchy in terms of relationships, right,
Speaker 5: and so it once it's escalated to a certain degree
Speaker 5: of importance, then you have to say something about it.
Speaker 5: But if you're trying to do away with that sort
Speaker 5: of hierarchy, and it just I don't know, it just
Speaker 5: makes it less necessary, right, you know.
Speaker 1: It's all I love you, they love me. We're friends totally,
Speaker 1: this is how our friendships work. Okay, So in the hierarchy,
Speaker 1: like trying to do away with the hierarchy of like
Speaker 1: your romantic relationship is at the highest. Like I know
Speaker 1: there's been these memes circulating right now or like these whatever,
Speaker 1: you know, the fucking internet, and it's like would you
Speaker 1: choose your wife or your kids? And I'm like, why
Speaker 1: is that a question? Like I'm always choosing my wife
Speaker 1: because God said. I'm like, I don't understand who what
Speaker 1: wife is asking?
Speaker 4: Meme?
Speaker 5: Is this?
Speaker 8: I'm not seeing the algorithm?
Speaker 5: Are you on?
Speaker 1: I see all these weird memes where they're like asking
Speaker 1: like do you feed your Like do you feed the
Speaker 1: man of the house first? Do you feed the kids?
Speaker 1: I'm like, why are we I was like, why do
Speaker 1: we have to choose?
Speaker 3: Like and why?
Speaker 1: And then everyone's applauding him like for choosing the wife
Speaker 1: and the comments. I'm like this is really fucking weird.
Speaker 1: But you know, like those are things we don't really
Speaker 1: question in our society, Like why is it that like
Speaker 1: if your girl, like your girl needs you but her
Speaker 1: man needs or she's out and you know it's my man,
Speaker 1: I gotta go. But like in a marriage, I think
Speaker 1: that's another thing because this is something that's the trigger
Speaker 1: for me, like I want to be the most important.
Speaker 1: I would be the most important, and so if I
Speaker 1: call you, you answered, not two rings. But then I
Speaker 1: have to ask myself, what the fuck is wrong with me?
Speaker 1: I need to be the princess. It's me, you know,
Speaker 1: And she also needs to know that I am the
Speaker 1: main one and I'm cool with her. We're cool, but
Speaker 1: I'm a number one. And it's just like I don't
Speaker 1: know where that comes from either. But are there limits?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 1: Are the limits? I know you said you're not necessarily
Speaker 1: like polyamorous. You might have like and it could be
Speaker 1: an intentional like just sexually driven like one off or whatever,
Speaker 1: But are there limits because you guys are primary partners
Speaker 1: obviously you've lived together, your kids together. Is there like
Speaker 1: had you if you meet a lover and it just
Speaker 1: goes on for an extended amount of time? And like,
Speaker 1: is that okay with you? On both ends?
Speaker 8: And I think we've we've kind of bridged this before
Speaker 8: on like a minor level because we have kids before.
Speaker 8: But I was in a three year releaship and then
Speaker 8: I got pregnant with Daniel's child.
Speaker 1: You were very careful about that.
Speaker 3: Clear. I have questions about that too. I have questions about.
Speaker 8: That's understandable and then it was like, oh, I'm going
Speaker 8: to be a mom soon. What does this mean for you? Boyfriend?
Speaker 8: I don't know? And so and also like so we
Speaker 8: had to have those conversations. It's like, oh, are we
Speaker 8: going to be co parenting? Like are you interested in
Speaker 8: kind of co parenting? Like so those conversations were.
Speaker 1: Like starting to maybe be on deck.
Speaker 8: But then we ended up mutually ending the relationship before
Speaker 8: the baby came, which made the best sense at that time.
Speaker 3: How much how far a long were you before you
Speaker 3: ended the relationship?
Speaker 8: It was pretty soon. I think I was like three
Speaker 8: or four months. Yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 3: It was time.
Speaker 8: It was a good run. But I think that we're
Speaker 8: open to kind of what non monogamy brings us, and
Speaker 8: thus far every challenge has only deepened our relationship. So
Speaker 8: I think the way that I look at it is
Speaker 8: the same way like if Daniell meets someone that he's
Speaker 8: really enjoying and then he's actually wanting to negotiate, like, Hey,
Speaker 8: I'd actually like to kind of maybe spend three nights
Speaker 8: a week at her house and like kind of split
Speaker 8: my time a little bit. Like I can imagine scenarios
Speaker 8: like that in the future, and I think that it's
Speaker 8: all very much like as we go, Like I think
Speaker 8: our intention very much so our intention is to raise
Speaker 8: our children together in a home where we both are living,
Speaker 8: like that's definitely our intention. But life can throw curveballs,
Speaker 8: and I think once our children are out of the house,
Speaker 8: or at least older, I think that might bring another
Speaker 8: shift to our non monogamy. If we're still non monogamous,
Speaker 8: we're also open to seasons of monogamy, if that feels
Speaker 8: right too. I think mostly it's just a posture of
Speaker 8: openness to what will be and trusting that will know
Speaker 8: how to handle it.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's the most beautiful thing of all. Right,
Speaker 1: It's like like we talked about before, like you can
Speaker 1: be monogamous, you can be traditionally married, and still you know,
Speaker 1: shit can pop off, someone can leave you. Things can
Speaker 1: happen and you had no idea that they were coming,
Speaker 1: which I think, truthfully, in all honesty, if we're honest,
Speaker 1: that is generally what people are caught off guard by
Speaker 1: and angry about the how could you not tell me?
Speaker 1: How I thought I trusted you? We had an agreement, right,
Speaker 1: It's not like you know, I think if I feel
Speaker 1: comfortable enough to be like, Wow, I'm really falling, like
Speaker 1: falling in love with this person. And it doesn't mean
Speaker 1: because I think we also have the understanding that if
Speaker 1: I if I'm in love with you, I can't also
Speaker 1: love someone else, right, that'd have to take away from
Speaker 1: the love from you and give it to someone else,
Speaker 1: Not that I can have. I can love this person
Speaker 1: so much, and I can also still love you so much,
Speaker 1: you know. It's just like I think people are limited
Speaker 1: and they're thinking that way, and so I'm I always
Speaker 1: curious about that because you know, is it something that
Speaker 1: can maintain or are you all always asking the third
Speaker 1: person to kind of be a temporary fix in your relationship,
Speaker 1: which I have an issue, Like, I don't know, it
Speaker 1: goes both ways. I can you just heard me. I'm
Speaker 1: totally bipolar. I'm like, I'm the most important. Also love
Speaker 1: when we want coral be free not really come back,
Speaker 1: you know. So I just I think that's, you know,
Speaker 1: something that I've had to think about.
Speaker 2: I have a question about how you navigate safety in
Speaker 2: your relationship. I think that's I think that's something that
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people wonder in open relationships,
Speaker 2: like do you have certain rules on protection, and we're
Speaker 2: not protection protection.
Speaker 1: Amount of time or what does that look like?
Speaker 8: No, where aways use protection. And I think that there's
Speaker 8: actually statistics that non monogamous folks have less STIs than
Speaker 8: monogamous folks because in non monogamous communities that conversation is
Speaker 8: always upfront and people have more people to protect, so
Speaker 8: you have a sense of respect onsibility to each other
Speaker 8: where it's actually in my experience, like dating non monogamous
Speaker 8: men and sleeping with non monogamous men is always more
Speaker 8: pleasant in that way because they're always more careful. They're
Speaker 8: always ready to be careful.
Speaker 1: Because they have response ready to initiate that.
Speaker 8: Yeah, right, versus you know.
Speaker 1: Your average mail and like how.
Speaker 3: Do you like, how do you meet people? Like are
Speaker 3: you on dating apps.
Speaker 8: Or are do you has been mostly especially like in
Speaker 8: the pandemic times.
Speaker 3: And are you just is it like on your dating profile?
Speaker 3: Like this is what it is. We're getting straight to
Speaker 3: the point here.
Speaker 8: Yeah, certain dating apps are more friendly to Okay, Cupid
Speaker 8: has like a non monogamy setting you can yeah, and
Speaker 8: you can like you could actually link it with your
Speaker 8: partners so people can like click on your partner's profile
Speaker 8: and see them.
Speaker 1: That's like field too and field.
Speaker 8: Yeah Field, We've used field a little bit as well, because.
Speaker 1: You guys don't generally like date together, played together.
Speaker 8: We have, but it's it's not I guess it's not
Speaker 8: exactly our press.
Speaker 5: I think we were. I think we're we have.
Speaker 8: New frontiers ahead of us, so we're excited about you
Speaker 8: for a season.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think it's more about having kids.
Speaker 8: That's really limited that aspect because we like being home
Speaker 8: with our babies and their babies so they're needy, so
Speaker 8: it's not like we both can just leave right so exactly.
Speaker 8: So I think that's what has made that part not
Speaker 8: is easy realistic.
Speaker 2: I think that's like a lot of the big misconception too,
Speaker 2: is that like people who are non monogamous are just
Speaker 2: like having orgies every day every weekend. Oh yeah they're
Speaker 2: and there, you and your partner must be having threesomes
Speaker 2: all the time. And what I find often is that
Speaker 2: people that are in anogamous relationships often play separately.
Speaker 3: And yeah they don't. They've never some have never even
Speaker 3: done it together.
Speaker 5: Yeah you know, I mean it's been almost exclusively separate.
Speaker 8: Yeah, we just had our first experience this past summer together.
Speaker 8: It was great, it was super fun, it was perfect,
Speaker 8: the perfect first experience.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we had. That was another situation where it's like, Okay,
Speaker 5: we've got childcare and it runs out at this time.
Speaker 5: So that also, like that also changes how it feels
Speaker 5: in the dynamics of it, but it also.
Speaker 2: Yeahs relaxed, it's more planned. Yeah, I've definitely played a
Speaker 2: three summer of five. I guess, like I have the yep,
Speaker 2: gotta be out by four, let's meet at three.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1: The last one I did when I was sleep and
Speaker 1: got out. I looked at her to school the next day,
Speaker 1: It's like, so happy, shouldn't wake up, amazing, don't judge me, guys,
Speaker 1: she was asleep.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm high, so I forgot. I was gonna say, well,
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think we would like I don't know. I could
Speaker 3: talk to you guys for hours.
Speaker 2: Honestly, I could ask you a million thousand more questions
Speaker 2: I know, like we wanted to.
Speaker 3: We've gone all over the place, but maybe.
Speaker 2: Like one final question I want to ask you guys,
Speaker 2: is like, what would you tell the non monogamous version
Speaker 2: of yourself, Like when you first started this journey. Now
Speaker 2: as someone who's been on this journey for a really
Speaker 2: long time now and that's still obviously.
Speaker 3: The journeys is continuous, but like, what would you tell her?
Speaker 3: What would you tell him?
Speaker 5: Go ahead?
Speaker 3: You first, She's like, I need to think, I need.
Speaker 5: To say apart from buckle up, Yeah, that's kind.
Speaker 1: Of what came to mind for me.
Speaker 8: I don't know, this isn't probably like the answer you're
Speaker 8: looking for, but from not looking for an.
Speaker 3: Answer, Okay, So I generally just want.
Speaker 8: To honestly, for me, I just feel really proud that
Speaker 8: I knew that it's what I wanted ten years ago. Like,
Speaker 8: I feel really proud of that because I'm I've been
Speaker 8: really right. Like it's felt so authentic and really affirming
Speaker 8: that the journey has gone the way it has. It
Speaker 8: has not been easy, oh my god, it's not been easy.
Speaker 8: It's been very very hard, but just so rewarding. So
Speaker 8: I think, I don't know. I think I would just
Speaker 8: tell myself like, you know what you want, you know
Speaker 8: what you want, and like trust it even if it's scary,
Speaker 8: be brave, and yeah, I think that's what I would say.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think what you said at the beginning of
Speaker 5: it or at the end there like that be brave.
Speaker 5: I wish I would have been braver from the outset.
Speaker 5: I think, been braver to kind of face like the
Speaker 5: reality of what it was I was experiencing when like
Speaker 5: I was at home and you were out, you know,
Speaker 5: brave enough to let I don't know, the people that
Speaker 5: I saw are the people that I dated, see something
Speaker 5: other than just like the polished, like charismatic first date, Daniel,
Speaker 5: you know, and see something like beneath that. Yeah, I
Speaker 5: think I will. I would have told myself to you're
Speaker 5: already doing this away like be braver and.
Speaker 1: That's nice.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 1: I have a question for you, Daniel, because I know,
Speaker 1: like the first time you came on our show, you
Speaker 1: had I think your your first baby was still pretty small,
Speaker 1: and I remember you discussing that, you know, for the
Speaker 1: first like three or four months of that pregnancy, that
Speaker 1: you had still had a boyfriend, And like, for you,
Speaker 1: how is that because I think that's that is like
Speaker 1: for the male ego. Let's be real, like that's the
Speaker 1: ultimate you know, your mind and you got my baby
Speaker 1: and you.
Speaker 5: Yeah, do you I mean, do you really want to
Speaker 5: pick up that scab because it's no, No, I mean right,
Speaker 5: it's okay.
Speaker 1: I don't think you really knew what about this last time?
Speaker 3: And now yeah, she's not high anymore. Guys, it was not.
Speaker 5: I think I was trying to put myself in a
Speaker 5: more emotionally evolved space with that, you know, and not
Speaker 5: react out of like that space of like possessiveness and
Speaker 5: toxicity and like all of that. But the reality is
Speaker 5: is I still felt that kind of like visceral nervous
Speaker 5: system response to it. How did you combat that alcohol? No,
Speaker 5: I actually that's probably a little bit true, A little
Speaker 5: bit true. It's probably a little bit true. Yeah, I
Speaker 5: think that they're like, you know, Rihanna said a second ago,
Speaker 5: it's been a huge challenge and it's been a lot
Speaker 5: of hard work, and I think like, yeah, there have
Speaker 5: been a million things that I've just kind of like,
Speaker 5: especially early on that I was like, Okay, be a
Speaker 5: more evolved version of yourself, be a more evolved.
Speaker 8: Version, But you didn't want to do the work that
Speaker 8: it took to actually.
Speaker 5: Actually arrive there.
Speaker 1: I'm here, I'm here, I'm buckled up like I'm a feminist, Yes.
Speaker 8: Exactly exactly, And to be fair and to give you
Speaker 8: some credit, Like I think that I was doing that
Speaker 8: to some extent too, because you had not given me
Speaker 8: the experience yet of like really having to do the
Speaker 8: work which came with this last connection. I think that
Speaker 8: this really humbled me where I was just like, oh
Speaker 8: my god, I thought it was just going to feel
Speaker 8: a lot easier and I had to go through that
Speaker 8: same process. So I want to I want you, want
Speaker 8: to give you some credit.
Speaker 1: Thanks, And I think.
Speaker 8: Sorry, listening to your talk right now just making me
Speaker 8: feel like I need to explain that you were really
Speaker 8: signaling that because I was trusting when you said you
Speaker 8: were okay, that you were okay, because I feel like
Speaker 8: that frames me, like, but Chorie, so are you drinking
Speaker 8: any problems?
Speaker 5: So it wasn't really like that I was drinking heavily before.
Speaker 1: Then stop stop, I mean we've alsoppressed some shit.
Speaker 8: Oh what point is is is I think that in
Speaker 8: this latest rendition of our non monogamy, we've really learned
Speaker 8: how to be honest, completely honest, in a way that
Speaker 8: requires vulnerability and in a way that really allows us
Speaker 8: to connect. And that's that's kind of what I thought
Speaker 8: we would say today. Yeah, and that that hits because
Speaker 8: I think before we weren't able, or you weren't able,
Speaker 8: I wasn't either. I guess to completely be honest, and
Speaker 8: with that, I think brought a lot of those those challenges.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the drink, Yeah, No, you did, like you to
Speaker 5: be fair, You gave me opportunities. You gave me opportunities
Speaker 5: to actually say how I felt about it, You gave
Speaker 5: me opportunities to set boundaries. But I don't know. I
Speaker 5: think I found that it was easier to kind of
Speaker 5: numb yourself and like pretend you're more a more evolved
Speaker 5: version of yourself than you than you actually are. And
Speaker 5: so and eventually that work comes back to you.
Speaker 1: Did you become resentful?
Speaker 2: Mmm?
Speaker 5: I'm kind of as like I'm a resentment prone person.
Speaker 5: So so yeah, yeah, no, I think so yeah, a
Speaker 5: little bit, a little bit.
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm so, I'm I'm just I'm asking you
Speaker 1: so many questions because I'm so I don't know, I'm
Speaker 1: so intrigued by your level of maturity and your ability
Speaker 1: to I mean, like, obviously you're being honest. Like there
Speaker 1: was a time I was trying to be I was
Speaker 1: acting rational, but I wasn't feeling that way, and I
Speaker 1: wasn't being vulnerable and I wasn't really utilizing the plat
Speaker 1: like the space to be like this is how I
Speaker 1: honestly feel. So I just feel like so many men
Speaker 1: miss this, you know, like so many men miss this part.
Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, I want to open a relationship, I
Speaker 1: want to fuck, you know, and then like when the
Speaker 1: tables return, it's like having to dissect your own toxic
Speaker 1: masculinity and like those feelings of like ah, I man,
Speaker 1: hear me, roar. I think is like men might need
Speaker 1: a step by step play on, like yeah, there are
Speaker 1: things that benefit you guys in the patriarchy that and
Speaker 1: you know, ownership of your body and that like women
Speaker 1: don't have, are not empowered to do, or don't feel
Speaker 1: supported specifically by their partners and by their men to
Speaker 1: feel free and you know, fulfilling their fantasies and like
Speaker 1: fulfilling you know, saying yeah, these are my fantasies or
Speaker 1: this is what I want. I may want to sleep
Speaker 1: with someone else, has nothing to do with you, but
Speaker 1: you know, I think I always wonder where are the
Speaker 1: men who get it, you know, who are willing to
Speaker 1: admit that these issues are so much like.
Speaker 2: They got to do the work, They got to have
Speaker 2: these conversations. They have to find the language to say
Speaker 2: how they feel. And sometimes that takes time. Sometimes that
Speaker 2: takes facing shit, like if you don't even know how
Speaker 2: to express how you feel. And then on top of it,
Speaker 2: I'm assuming maybe even feel shame that you feel this
Speaker 2: way because she doesn't like, damn, she more evolved than me.
Speaker 2: Why can't I feel like that?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 3: Why can't I show up like that? What's wrong with me?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 2: I know I felt like that in relationships in the past,
Speaker 2: not even around monogamy, just in general, in other ways
Speaker 2: and other thought processes, And I'm like, damn, they're so evolved.
Speaker 3: Why the fuck can't I be that way? Am? I?
Speaker 6: Like?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 3: So, I think there's like a shame that goes along
Speaker 3: with with that and being a man. I'm not a man.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I'm just saying what I think.
Speaker 2: But I think at least having these type of conversations,
Speaker 2: and I'm so grateful that you guys came and shared
Speaker 2: you know, your story with us, and you know your
Speaker 2: journey in this space, but.
Speaker 3: That these are the kind of conversations that need to.
Speaker 2: Happen totally conversations that men need to hear, that women
Speaker 2: need to hear, that married people need to hear that.
Speaker 2: People that are listening to this at the beginning of
Speaker 2: this episode and said, what the.
Speaker 1: Fuck is this shit?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 3: Hell now and now are like huh, Like.
Speaker 1: I'm like, damn. Do I feel like I own my wife?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Did I buy her?
Speaker 6: She is?
Speaker 4: She mind?
Speaker 1: I put a number of value on her?
Speaker 3: Did pay for that wedding?
Speaker 1: Did I want to block her in the basement or
Speaker 1: sud she be free to roam? I don't know, It's true.
Speaker 1: Daniel's so smart, damp.
Speaker 8: Yeah, And I mean, I think it is important to
Speaker 8: note once again, like I think you've used the word
Speaker 8: time and this is really It's taken a lot of
Speaker 8: time to get where we're at. It's been twelve years,
Speaker 8: twelve years of unraveling, and I think for men that
Speaker 8: I'm unraveling goes a lot deeper. Yeah, And so I'm
Speaker 8: excited for Daniel to eventually work more with me as
Speaker 8: I coached folks on the particular challenges that men face. Though,
Speaker 8: I think that'll be really fun.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, you guys are going to be like
Speaker 3: a power couple.
Speaker 1: I think so couples everywhere you go.
Speaker 5: I love that.
Speaker 1: It's inspiring. It really is. It's like there's hope in
Speaker 1: the male race. Amen, Helia.
Speaker 3: Well, thank you guys for coming. I'm so happy that
Speaker 3: you guys came all the.
Speaker 4: Way to the Valley hangout.
Speaker 2: Can you tell us, like, where can people find your
Speaker 2: coaching programs? How can they find you guys?
Speaker 8: Yeah, So Daniel does not have any socials at the moment,
Speaker 8: but that may change.
Speaker 3: I don't blame you, Daniel, it's nice.
Speaker 8: I'm jealous honestly. But you can find me on Instagram
Speaker 8: at belach Underscore because Instagram keeps deleting my account so
Speaker 8: I keep having to make new versions of So Baila Underscore,
Speaker 8: and my website is Baylecha dot com.
Speaker 1: You can find me awesome, awesome, Well, thank you the
Speaker 1: led Chase and.
Speaker 5: Thank you so appreciate that needs.
Speaker 3: To be your group website, like.
Speaker 2: And we'll make sure to link all their information in
Speaker 2: the episode description. Make sure you guys follow us on Instagram,
Speaker 2: Good Moms Underscore, Bad Choices, follow us on Patreon. We
Speaker 2: just released an episode over there and we're talking about,
Speaker 2: you know, all the good things Gang bangs and.
Speaker 3: Love and grandfathers.
Speaker 1: You know, basic shiite, very deep, very deep.
Speaker 2: Very Sexyreon dot com backslash good mom's bad.
Speaker 1: Choices, don't forget to take care of yourself and love yourself.
Speaker 2: Date yourself. I hope you guys are taking yourself on
Speaker 2: dates spending time with yourself. This month, we are really
Speaker 2: focusing on self love and what and doing all that stuff.
Speaker 3: So we're always fucking focusing on.
Speaker 1: Even if you're in a relationship, even if you're married.
Speaker 1: I think this is like a really good example of
Speaker 1: showing up for yourself and being honest about with your
Speaker 1: partner is really serving yourself and loving yourself. There's so
Speaker 1: many ways to love on yourself, and even in relationship.
Speaker 1: I think it's really important that you maintain that as
Speaker 1: you can see.
Speaker 4: Amen, Hika, Okay, see you next week. Bye bye,