WEBVTT - Milton Grimes 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.600 Milton Charles Grimes has been practicing law in Los Angeles 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:07.520 for the last forty eight years. He's worked on fifty 0:00:07.600 --> 0:00:12.320 six murder trials, but also some highly publicized civil rights 0:00:12.360 --> 0:00:15.560 cases dealing with the guy named Rodney King who beat 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:18.759 ten cops. No, he got beat by four cops, and 0:00:19.400 --> 0:00:23.800 twenty seven cops totally watched that other than the four 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:27.680 that participated in the beating. Grimes was responsible for winning 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:30.360 a three point eight million dollar civil claim on behalf 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:33.199 of King, the black motorist who was brutally beaten by 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:36.680 the Los Angeles Police Department and whose assailants were ultimately 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:40.199 found not guilty, sparking an uprising across the city of 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:43.640 Los Angeles and the country at large. We refer a 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:46.760 lot back to the so called La Riots in this podcast, 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:49.600 because it was in many ways the blaze that caught 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:53.519 from the powder keg that was l a when American 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:56.600 Me came out. The violence and gang culture portrayed in 0:00:56.640 --> 0:00:59.520 American Me is the result of the societal neglect and 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:03.279 state of pression experienced primarily by people of color for 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:07.360 decades in Los Angeles. But we're speaking to Milton Grimes 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:11.160 about a different client today. Joe Morgan was held to 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:15.880 be the leader of the Mexican mafia. I understand I 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:20.480 met Joe Morgan. I guess was in the early nineties. 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:24.920 Um I was asked to if I would represent him 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:28.679 because he was not being cared for properly in the 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:32.560 California prison system. He was at Pelican Bay, which is 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:37.160 like the top security prison in California and a boast 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:41.000 of that anyway, and Joe was there and he wasn't 0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:47.880 receiving proper medical care for his uh tessim or stomach cancer, 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:54.400 and so a friend of his, Shirley um McDonald, asked 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:56.840 me if I would help him. And I went up 0:01:56.840 --> 0:01:59.960 there and interview with him, and he asked me if 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:03.480 I could help him seek proper medical attention, and that's 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:06.440 how I got acquainted with him. Joe peg Leg Morgan 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:09.639 was also who Edward James almost allegedly based the character 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:13.600 of Jdon played by William Forsyth in the movie clicka 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:20.640 ar Barrio Our Families. That's how we gotta see when 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:27.799 we were kids, belonging felt good, but having respect with 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:32.080 set feels even better. He was known for having a 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:35.800 shaved head a prosthetic leg, hence the nickname and piercing 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:39.120 eyes a lot like j D. The youngest of four siblings, 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:43.160 Morgan was born on April tenth in San Pedro, California, 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:47.200 to Croatian immigrants Clara and Grego Medagak, a truck driver. 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:52.040 According to infallible Internet reference site wikipedia dot com, shortly 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:54.960 after his birth, his father naturalized as a US citizen, 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:58.560 anglicizing the family name to Morgan due to an anti immigrant, 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:02.760 anti Slavic sentiment at the time. In the year Morgan 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:06.320 was born, the US past immigration laws limiting immigration from 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:09.240 the Balkans. It's believed that more than half of the 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:12.440 Croatian population in the US at the time was deported 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:15.880 from the nation. Morgan grew up in a primarily Mexican 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:19.120 and Croatian neighborhood in San Pedro. You can understand then, 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:22.160 how Morgan comes to identify with Mexican culture and people 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:27.200 who likewise had faced xenophobia and discriminatory immigration practices. He 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:30.959 ultimately moved to another Mexican neighborhood, Boil Heights. In the 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:33.960 late nineteen thirties, he joined the Ford Maravilla Street Gang, 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:37.240 one of the oldest documented gangs in Los Angeles, maybe 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:40.720 the oldest. The predominantly Hispanic gang was part of a 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:44.640 larger group known as Barrio Maraba, based in East l A, 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:46.680 a gang that at some point had beef with the 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:49.560 Mexican Mafia. So how does Joe Morgan come to become 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:53.840 part of Lammy Choices We Made to Survive? Godmundo J. 0:03:54.080 --> 0:04:01.200 D n Me ten to five collections, according to his 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:04.440 obituary in The l A Times. In nineteen forty six, 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:08.280 at the age of sixteen, Morgan became romantically involved with 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:11.480 a thirty two year old woman literally twice his age, 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:14.920 eventually bludgeting her fifty two year old husband to death 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:17.880 with a tire iron and burying him in a shallow 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:21.719 grave in Malibu Hills. While awaiting trial in County jail, 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:25.080 Morgan escaped from custody by posing as his cellmate, who 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:27.960 was scheduled to be transferred to a juvenile forestry camp. 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:31.279 After he was captured, Morgan was convicted of second degree 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:34.240 murder and sent to San Quentin, where he served nine years. 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:37.200 In nineteen fifty six, a year after his parole, he 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:40.000 was sent back to prison for a machine gun robbery 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:42.359 of a West Covina bank, where he made off with 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:46.120 seventeen thousand dollars the equivalent of a hundred and eighty 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:49.919 five thousand today. While serving his sentence, he was transferred 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:52.880 from Fulsome back to County Jail in nineteen sixty one 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:56.200 so he could testify at another murder trial. From there, 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:59.920 he led an escape of eleven inmates through a pipe shaft, 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:04.640 reportedly using tools hidden in his prosthesis. The dude hid 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:08.240 tools in his fake leg. He was arrested a week 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:10.960 later as he shopped for groceries on the West Side. 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:14.240 Back in prison, he gradually befriended the leaders of the 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:17.760 Mexican Mafia, which was formed at Dual Vocational Institution in 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:20.200 Tracy in the mid fifties by a group of hardcore 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:24.080 East Side gang members seeking to establish a gang of gangs. 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:27.479 Although he was Anglo, Morgan was fluent in Spanish and 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:39.640 identified strongly with Latino culture. Come on totally. Quote, as 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:41.960 far as we were concerned, he was a Mexican, said 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:45.839 Raymond Mundo Mendoza forty three, a former Mexican Mafia hitman 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:50.360 who left the organization in the nineteen seventies after embracing Christianity. Quote. 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:52.839 If anybody ever called him a white boy. I have 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:55.039 no doubt he would have killed him. He knew what 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:57.320 he was as far as his jeans were concerned, but 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:01.599 his heart was Chicano end quote. Once firmly inside the mafia, 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:05.440 Morgan studied Aztec mythology and the writings of Ocdavio pass. 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:08.359 He got along well with the guards, but never sold 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:11.520 out his comrades, often using the affectionate term mijo to 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:15.240 address a particularly trusted friend. That's all from the l 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:18.280 a times oh bit. Some say Morgan was well respected 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:20.800 within the ranks of the Mexican Mafia and eventually became 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:24.159 a high ranking member. According to at least one former 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:27.320 member we spoke to, though Joe was well liked, but 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:30.200 he wasn't high ranking. His status is in non Mexican 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:33.320 would have never allowed it. However, others say his connections 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:36.279 with drug suppliers in Mexico helped pave the foundation for 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:40.159 the Mexican Mafia's narcotics business. Morgan was even able to 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:43.120 persuade the Aryan Brotherhood to forge a loose alliance with 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:45.880 LA due to having the Black Guerrilla Family as a 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:49.560 mutual arrival. Similar events play out as scenes in American 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:53.560 me but again with certain crucial details that are contested 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:56.400 by the Mexican mafia, including a scene where the b 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:59.560 GF kills a whole bunch of MS by suffocating them 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:05.000 in piles of heroin. Yeah, I know who you are 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:10.480 now breathe deep. We'll get into that in a later episode. 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:13.560 This was after Morgan had tried and successfully made some 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:17.280 loose alliances with black gangs, which eventually broke down because 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:19.680 the Mexican leaders at the time had issues with multiple 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:23.760 black gangs, you know, because Latinos are also racist. It 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:26.000 was thought that Morgan wanted to set deals with white 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:28.720 and black gangs to ensure that Lama could come out 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:32.320 the dominant force with little resistance. This was a characteristic 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:36.520 Morgan was known for being very political and strategic. Allegedly, 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:40.160 Morgan made diplomatic relations with the Los Angeles Italian crime 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:44.280 family through Michael Ristello, who he met during the nine 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:46.920 years sentence the mobster was serving in Chino for a 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:50.400 string of armed robberies during the nineteen seventies. Another event 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:52.960 loosely depicted in the film. There's going to be some 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:56.800 changes in the way business has done mist from now 0:07:56.800 --> 0:07:58.560 and are people who are going to be responsible for 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:03.840 the easterly Exchange. All deliveries between Mexico and Exchange are 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:07.080 going to be done through US. All collections are going 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:10.600 to be done by us. Is that's what you came 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:13.760 here for to tell me my business for now one 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:17.080 your business into Vadio. It's going to be our business too. 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:21.559 It's rumored that Morgan even committed the first prison gang 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:26.360 street execution in Los Angeles in and here's a rumor 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:30.320 I love. It's believed that Morgan offered Croatian political refugees 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:34.559 protection from Yugoslav agents in the US. Los Angeles was 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:37.200 one of the few cities Croatians could openly oppose the 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:40.640 Communist government without any of the local leadership being murdered 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:44.840 like in Chicago or New York City. Supposedly, Morgan used 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:48.720 his gang ties to intimidate or even murder Yugoslavian state 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:52.880 agents sent to kill their political rivals. Again citing Moondo 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:56.679 Mendoza in the l A. Times obituary quote. With his savvy, 0:08:56.760 --> 0:09:00.520 his manipulative skills, his intelligence, his charisma, and his knack 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:03.760 for being profitable, he easily could have been the president 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:06.840 of a major corporation. Part of him was cruel, and 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:09.200 cold blooded, but there was a side of Joe that 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:15.880 was very human, very humane end quote. Welcome to more 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:18.800 than a Movie American Me, a podcast that digs into 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:22.360 the history and mystery of American Met, a film directed 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:25.240 by and starring Edward James almost that had a huge 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:29.720 impact on Latino cinema and culture. I'm your host, Alex Fumeto, 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:32.679 and I'll be diving into the behind the scenes controversy 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:35.880 every episode. I'm gonna try to peel back a layer 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:37.800 of the story by trying to go deeper into the 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:41.720 intentions and motives behind the film and the backlash. Thirty 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:46.240 years later, on today's podcast, I'm speaking to Milton Grimes, 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:49.480 attorney for Mexican Mafia member Joe Morgan, who was the 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:57.920 basis for the character j D in American Meat. So 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:02.000 when you went to meet with uh Joe Morgan, Uh, 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:05.800 it was to bring a lawsuit against uh the state 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:10.040 of California. First, it was to see what was happening 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:12.319 with him and why was he complaining about the lack 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:16.360 of proper medical care and look into that and to 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:20.240 attempt to get the administration of the prison system to 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:23.800 give him care proper care. As you are entitled to 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:27.840 when your institutional lives, and yet not totally unsurprising that 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:33.840 the criminal justice system failed. And I tried those cases, 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:37.800 a couple of them, and it's, uh, it should be surprising. 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:40.560 Was not surprising, But how can you let a human 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:46.320 beings suffer? Is beyond my understanding? I agreed. So, Um, 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:48.240 how well did you get to know Joe Morgan in 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:51.920 that process? Um? I spent a few hours with him. 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:56.520 We may have talked on the phone. I'm not sure occasion. 0:10:57.360 --> 0:11:01.840 I believe, I believe we had meetings, and I'm not 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:06.480 even sure about that. I understand that it went from 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:12.440 there too, the suing of the major studios who produced 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:19.199 the video or the video the movie American me portraying 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:22.560 Mr Morrigan in that movie, and there was some dispute 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:26.760 as to some of the things they portrayed Mr Morrigan 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:35.400 in and there was some disagreement with people that were 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:42.280 knowledgeable are involved in the Mexican Association, and uh, they 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:46.320 disagreed with some of the portrayals in their of Mr Morgan, 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:52.400 and um, some disputes and disagreements came out of that, 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:56.280 and UM, that's what happened. And you can say it's 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:58.400 just a movie. But a lot of times people don't 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:01.400 know the difference. Take the Fox News talk show where 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:04.440 they're trying to explain to the host what prison is like, 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:09.920 he'll shake it, he's gonna see I tell you, I 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:14.920 don't know. Was that a television program? That's I saw 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:17.800 the one. I've seen that one. But then they were 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:20.800 all like cutting the garlic the American You know that 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:23.080 one too, I've seen that with the rice bag, and 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:27.200 I'm just saying yes at this point, coming out poppy. 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:32.719 So it's it's thought that the character that that Mr 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:36.280 Morgan was Um took issue with the character j D 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:40.760 who is uh played by William Forsyth Um, who is 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:46.360 not of Mexican descent? Was was Joe Morgan Mexican? I 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:50.360 believe he was port your Geese. I believe that he 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:53.720 was not Mexican. They say he was white, he's not Latino, 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:57.160 but I believe he was Portuguese. He was Croatian. How 0:12:57.200 --> 0:13:00.160 does a guy like that end up associated with an 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:05.800 organization called the Mexican Mafia. Well, he lived in the 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:09.800 East l A Area. I understand he associated Those were 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:14.000 his playmates, Those where his friends, those were That's where 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:18.400 he grew up and he adopted the culture. Uh, and 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:24.440 they believed in him. Uh, they loved him. Um, and 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:30.280 he was as one of them as a native born one. Um. 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:34.240 You know, there's something about how do I say this? 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:39.240 Black people have a way of identifying and accepting people 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:42.240 of an opposite race that may even be part of 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:45.960 the race that is oppressing them. But if you're a 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:50.160 person with a heart and you show concerned love and 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:55.319 belief and loyalty to the group, I think the color 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:57.880 of your skin and the race you are takes a 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:02.000 second seat. That makes sense. I mean from what I heard, 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:06.319 Joe was fluent in Spanish, right right, he which he 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:09.320 identified with the culture. Many Chicano's aren't even fluent in 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:13.079 Spanish Spanish, you know, especially in the US, right right, 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:17.800 and and he Um, So when you come to meet him, 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:21.840 it's sort of it's at a later point in his life. Um. 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:27.920 How does he come to be held at Pelican Bay? 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:30.960 His sentence, I don't I've forgotten what it was for. 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:34.440 Was it for any murder? I believe somewhat that was involved. 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:40.640 But next Pelican Bay was known to hold the worst 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:44.520 of the worst, so to speak. Quote, I visited Pelican 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:47.000 Bay once because I had a deaf pility case and 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:49.640 I wanted to visit it so I would know what 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:52.120 I was talking about when I talked to the jury 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:57.000 about spiring, sparing, sparing my client's life and not putting 0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:00.200 him to death, and that Pelican Bay was a place 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:02.920 where NAT couldn't get out of if it was locked 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:05.760 up in there. You follow me, And it seemed like 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:09.120 that when I was there, pardon, it was like the 0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:12.480 Blacks was on the weight power one hour, two hours, 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:15.080 and the Whites was the next, and the Latinos was 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:18.800 the next, and they didn't integrate, and they separated, and 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:21.720 they kept the hostility amongst the groups so that they 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:24.880 could be entertained, or for whatever other up and reason 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:28.640 they do that in the prison system. But getting back 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:32.840 to your question why Joe was assigned there at that 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:35.480 time and in his life, I guess it was just 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:39.360 to make sure he would be fully punished for what 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:43.040 society or the institution thought he needed to be punished for. 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:47.120 Coming up, Milton Grimes will tell us about the Joe 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:55.240 Morgan that he met face to face in prison. Welcome 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:57.440 back to More Than a Movie. I'm Alex Fometto and 0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:00.400 we're talking to criminal and civil attorney Milton Times, who 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:05.320 represented Mexican mafia member. I want to go back a 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:07.480 little bit to this, this meeting that you had with 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:10.800 Joe Morgan. Can you what do you remember about him 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:15.600 and his personality meeting him? Rather than be in a terror, 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:20.840 a monster that would attack and I was supposed to 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:24.760 shiver in front of I remember him being a mild mannered, 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:28.520 grandfatherly type. To be honest with you, the monster was 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:31.240 not there. And I have to admit that I had 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:36.360 some concerns with meeting the infamous Joe Morrigan. You're following me. 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:39.440 None of that was there. None of that was there. 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:43.520 And you know, I mean, I've represented Shugu Night, I've 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:46.600 represented a number of people who are supposed to be 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:49.960 I won't say ax killers, that's taken it too far, 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:53.360 but people of people. Man. You know, people do some 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:58.160 things that are bad and ugly. But I've learned to 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:02.040 try to see the human side of people and respect 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:05.439 that and and just I respect you, I expect you 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:10.679 to respect me so that that monster is not there. 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:14.320 So did you what did you know about the Mexican 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:19.000 mafia before going into Mitcho? What did I know, I 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:22.880 know that during that time they're in the drug cases, 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:26.320 you had to be careful as an attorney not to 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:30.240 get too involved with them or close to the guys 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:35.359 that were known to or suspected to be involved with 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:41.160 the cartels, because you lose control. You could lose control 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:46.160 of the case, in your office and your life because 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:48.720 if you got too close and you learned too much, 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:52.560 you could get killed. Uh So that was that kind 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:55.560 of fear out there. I didn't have that concern as 0:17:55.640 --> 0:18:00.440 much because I try to keep a professional relationship with clients. 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:02.720 Even though I get personal with clients. I like to 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:05.240 get to know who am I representing, because I don't 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:07.560 think you can represent a person very well if you 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:10.000 don't get to learn who they are, and they learn 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:13.960 who you are, and you can get a more honest relationship. 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:18.119 So but I was I was cautious about when a 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:21.080 person is going to be coming from Mexico to retain me, 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:23.800 and they may have certain demands and they're gonna want 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:26.399 to know everything and anything that's going on, and I 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:29.040 want to give you directions on what to do, and 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:31.360 and I just don't want that. The money you can 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:33.600 keep it, you can, and there were a lot of 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:35.960 guys made a lot of money. With a hundred two 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:41.520 fifty thousand, half million dollars billion dollar fees, I represented 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:48.080 more the midline dealers during that time. How did you 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:52.400 How did you choose your clients? How did you decide 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:56.760 I want to represent this person. I think everyone is 0:18:56.960 --> 0:19:02.800 entitled to representation. Uh uh. I've represented child molesters, I've 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:09.719 represented murderers, I've represented the run of them, everybody, because 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:14.000 my belief was that everyone is entitled to the best defense. 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:18.399 So you know, I've represented a few people with it 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:22.400 and say anything defense and mental illness. Like the lady 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:25.120 who killed her baby, I thought she should ride in hell. 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:27.359 When I read the headlines and the paper mother kills 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:29.200 her baby and the way she did it, I'm saying 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:31.399 this woman should ride in hell. When I met her 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:34.000 at jail on a Friday after her family came and 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:36.840 said they interviewed six lawyers and they decided to come 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:39.480 back and hire me. I first thought, y'all trying to 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:41.640 set me up because she's a white girl. You're gonna 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:45.080 hide this black lawyer and I'm join in screw up, 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:48.399 and you're gonna be blaming me and everybody's gonna be attacked. Okay, 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:50.359 I'm gonna give you this figure here. So they wrote 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:54.399 the check, said okay, and shucks, I didn't. I didn't 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:56.960 get that done. So I'm stuck with this case. So 0:19:57.040 --> 0:19:58.840 I had got to go down to jail and see her. 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:00.840 On a Friday night. I a to him about eleven 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:04.200 o'clock and I tell my wife at the time, she's 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:07.760 not a criminal, she's not a killer. This girl needs 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:12.440 some help. You follow me, and she did. She did. 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:15.320 I grew to understand what postpartom psychosis is, and my 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:17.359 wife later told me, you know, I had post bottom. 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:21.240 I didn't have psychosis, but I found out women who 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:24.040 have babies have post bottom. They don't have all that 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:27.960 love and good feeling and fuzzy for babies all the time. 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:29.639 Sometimes they want to put them in that oven. It 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:33.280 turned hot. You follow me, I do. In essence, what 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:35.720 I think Milton is saying is that most of the 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:39.720 people he defends, even when they've done heinous things, they're 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:44.520 human beings. They're not all sociopaths or monsters. They're people 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:47.760 who themselves have suffered or are suffering in some way 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:49.880 and trying to play the cards that they're dealt as 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:54.080 best they can. And maybe, you know, maybe folks from 0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:58.719 these neighborhoods aren't as eloquent. And I studied about this 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:01.600 as you are. But they know, right, I mean, kids 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:03.919 who are growing up in Ramona Gardens in the early nineties, 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:06.000 they know that the system is not set up to 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:08.679 favor them. Right, that's right, they right, that's right. They 0:21:08.720 --> 0:21:11.000 know cops don't respect them. They know cops don't treat 0:21:11.040 --> 0:21:13.400 white kids and Beverly Hills or bell Air like they 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:17.040 treat them. You follow me and make them these fucking 0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:23.199 these two judges in Pennsylvania that were kids for cash 0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:26.800 juvenile justice, that's right. Yeah, they're selling these kids for 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:30.200 a traffic citation, six months in juvenile hall, in prisons, 0:21:30.200 --> 0:21:33.359 six months, little kids they were putting in the criminal 0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:38.400 justice system, and nobody doing anything about it. The clerks, 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:41.879 the bailiffs, they got kids. You're sitting there letting this 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:44.560 happen because it's not your son. He's skin is different 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:47.080 than yours, and you're letting these judges make millions of 0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:51.840 dollars evilly doing evil. Yeah, but then these kids in 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:54.359 prison for money, and this is how how old is 0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:57.480 Joe Morgan. When you met him in the nineties, you 0:21:57.560 --> 0:22:00.399 counted up because I don't remember birthday, but met him 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:04.000 in ninety nine four, Morgan would have been in his 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:06.919 early to mid sixties. Yeah, he should have been taken 0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:09.720 care of more and he which means that he came 0:22:09.760 --> 0:22:13.760 of age in a time in Los Angeles where I 0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:16.359 mean by you know, we see it in the movie 0:22:16.440 --> 0:22:18.439 right with the zoot Suit Riots, right, I don't know 0:22:18.560 --> 0:22:22.960 if you've seen recently, yes, sir, and I always go 0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:26.920 back to, you know, during the zoot Suits Riots, the 0:22:27.400 --> 0:22:31.000 Marie I'm sorry, the army guys in the sellers, they 0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:33.400 were beating Chicanos and then they said, well, let's get 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:36.280 we beat the black too, and they started beating them 0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:39.040 and there was It's in It's in the l A 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:42.359 Times because I used it in a lawsuit against the 0:22:42.359 --> 0:22:45.600 Sea of Santa Monica for racial discrimination and voter rights 0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:49.439 violation that we won. And part of it was the 0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:55.600 research of the zoot Suit days with Chicanos. And believe 0:22:55.640 --> 0:22:59.720 it or not, the brothers and the Chicanos got together 0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:05.000 over in Compton, I think it was or what and 0:23:05.040 --> 0:23:08.960 they entice them out because they had heard that there's 0:23:08.960 --> 0:23:12.680 gonna be three bus loads of sailors coming to beat 0:23:12.720 --> 0:23:15.480 the black's ass over and watch. I think it was. 0:23:16.080 --> 0:23:19.919 And so they got together. It isn't you can research 0:23:19.960 --> 0:23:22.679 it in the paper. They got together and they developed 0:23:22.680 --> 0:23:25.280 attacked it. And they had two or three guys out 0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:27.840 there going f you, f you come on them, and 0:23:27.880 --> 0:23:31.280 they got them to charge them and come around the corner. 0:23:32.560 --> 0:23:36.960 They were they they they've done away with a couple 0:23:36.960 --> 0:23:41.720 of lovers. Yeah, it'sn't written about. And what I'm saying, man, 0:23:41.760 --> 0:23:44.160 how do we lose that coalition? How do we lose 0:23:44.240 --> 0:23:47.320 that support for one another brother because we got the 0:23:47.359 --> 0:23:49.879 same enemy. Why they why you're letting them put us 0:23:49.920 --> 0:23:51.919 against each other? Well, certainly part of it is that 0:23:52.000 --> 0:23:54.400 you get sent to prison. You described it yourself. You said, 0:23:54.880 --> 0:23:58.080 first the white people are the black people are on 0:23:58.160 --> 0:24:03.000 the workout station and rotate. So you separate them like that, 0:24:03.080 --> 0:24:05.199 and then you go back to society. And those are 0:24:05.240 --> 0:24:07.680 the kinds of norms they're taking with your used to. 0:24:08.080 --> 0:24:12.320 I did some cases out of Corkran during the gladiator 0:24:12.720 --> 0:24:15.320 war that they had where six people got killed out 0:24:15.359 --> 0:24:18.359 in the yard because they had the gladiator fights and 0:24:18.440 --> 0:24:22.040 they would pit black against Mexican and and and brother 0:24:22.119 --> 0:24:25.119 against brother, and they would kill each other and the 0:24:25.119 --> 0:24:27.280 guards will be up there betting on it in the towers, 0:24:27.800 --> 0:24:33.160 the glad looking up. And I represented two families who 0:24:33.160 --> 0:24:36.919 had lost young men to that gladiator war. You're following me, 0:24:37.400 --> 0:24:40.600 And we learned that I never forget. One of the 0:24:40.640 --> 0:24:45.080