1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: My Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, the production 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: of My Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow 3 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: Your Mind. My name is Robert lamp and I'm Joe McCormick, 4 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: and we're back with part three of our series on 5 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: the question of thirst. Now, if you remember, in the 6 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: last episode, Rob we talked about the the biology of 7 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 1: of thirst, anticipation of anticipation of the quenching of thirst. 8 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: Because there's this interesting thing where after you drink a 9 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: glass of water when you've been dehydrated, it takes some 10 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: number of minutes, maybe on the order of tens of minutes, 11 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: before that water actually gets absorbed through the digestive system 12 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 1: and ends up in the blood and makes a difference 13 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: systemically throughout the body. And yet you still feel that 14 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: that thirst quenchiness after you have just the first class 15 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: of water. You're not continue senuous lee chugging for ten 16 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: to twenty minutes, at least hopefully not. But to start 17 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,119 Speaker 1: off today, I wanted to come back to the question 18 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: of how it is that the body detects the and 19 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 1: anticipates the coming changes in your blood and your blood osmolality, 20 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: which again is the concentration of dissolved substances like mineral 21 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:27,759 Speaker 1: salts in your in your body's water content, and how 22 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: it anticipates those changes to provide you that delicious feeling 23 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: of having your thirst quenched by a glass of water. Now, 24 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: in the previous episodes, we already talked about a few 25 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: ways that the mouth and the throat might detect the 26 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 1: the introduction of water into the body and and sort 27 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: of sin signals to the brain saying hey, okay, you 28 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: can put the thirst on hold for now. There there 29 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:54,279 Speaker 1: are there are soon coming changes to the body's hydration levels. 30 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: And one of the ideas we talked about was the 31 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: possibility that temperature plays a role, because maybe there there's 32 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: some evidence that the power of water to cool the 33 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: mouth and throat sends quenching signals to the brain. And 34 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: also there was some evidence that rodents were using sour 35 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: taste receptors in the mouth to detect the presence of water. 36 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 1: But Rob, maybe you can sent me straight on this one. 37 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 1: I don't think it was clear that triggering the sour 38 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:25,679 Speaker 1: taste receptors actually led to the quenching of thirst. Rather, 39 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 1: it seemed to encourage more drinking behavior when the mouse 40 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: was thirsty. Is that right, Yes, that's my understanding of 41 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: these findings. But I was actually reading about um a 42 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 1: few more studies on exactly this question of of how 43 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: thirst quenching happens. What is the mechanism that leads to 44 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: these changes in the brain that tell you, ah, you 45 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: are thou art now quenched. So the first thing I 46 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: wanted to talk about was a study that was reading 47 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: about a New York Times article from eighteen by Veryy 48 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: Greenwood called you get thirsty and drink, how does your 49 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: brain signal you've had enough? And this is where referring 50 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: to a paper that I think came up in passing 51 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 1: in the previous episode, but it was by Vanyte Augustine 52 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: at All in Nature called Hierarchical Neural Architecture underlying Thirst regulation, 53 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: And this research has been looking at exactly this question 54 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: we just brought up, and they confirmed that, of course, 55 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: there there is a complex of neurons in the brain 56 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: that appear to cease activity after a thirsty mouse drinks water. 57 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: So there are some neurons that are apparently signaling that 58 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: generating that thirst motivation state. But then when a roadent 59 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: takes some water in through the mouth, those neurons shut up, 60 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: they go quiet. So this would be the neural mechanism 61 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: to register quenching. But the question is what is the 62 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: direct mechanism that that leads to the changes in those neurons. Now, 63 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: this New York Times article summarizes the findings as explained 64 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: by the first author on that paper, Vannyte Augustine quote, Intriguingly, 65 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: what these cells are responding to is not the presence 66 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: of water itself. Mr Augustine said, The researchers discovered that 67 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: letting a mouse take big gulps of water would spur 68 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: the neurons into action, but giving it water in gel form, 69 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: which had to be chewed before it could be swallowed, 70 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: did not. Neither did providing water in tiny two second 71 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: long SIPs, even when the animals consumed the same total 72 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 1: amount of water. In fact, giving the mice oil to 73 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: drink had just the same effect on the neurons as 74 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: gulping water. So that last part is a little gross, 75 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: But based on this finding, uh, it would kind of 76 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 1: imply that a major mechanism leading these thirst neurons to 77 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 1: to say, okay, thirst has been quenched, would have something 78 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 1: to do with like muscular movements in the throat, the 79 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: kind of gulping that you do when you're guzzling down 80 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: a bunch of water really fast. But technically maybe it 81 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:56,679 Speaker 1: doesn't even have to be water. It's just any fluid 82 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:00,279 Speaker 1: that you're gulping. I mean, as humans, we don't drink 83 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: a lot of just straight oil, but we do drink 84 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: a lot of things that are that are to varying 85 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: degrees removed from from from you know, from from just 86 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: a neutral water. Uh So this would make sense, right, 87 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: But if you if you hydrate yourself in some other ways, 88 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: so like the examples that you say, consuming water in 89 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 1: gel form where you can't like gulp it down, really 90 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: that still hydrates you, but that apparently does not lead 91 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: to this immediate quinching signal in the brain. Similarly with 92 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 1: drinking water in very small, isolated SIPs. I guess in 93 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 1: those cases you would eventually hydrate yourself and your thirst 94 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: will eventually go away, But it will be more likely 95 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: that your body has to just become systemically hydrated before 96 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: the thirst goes away. It's not that sudden quinching reward feeling. Now, 97 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: there was an interesting detail offered here about reasons that 98 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: the body might need to have this reaction where we 99 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: turn off thirst very quickly after getting a drink, like 100 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: why not just wait for your blood osmlality to reach 101 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 1: the ideal level. Well, in previous episodes, we we talked 102 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:10,359 Speaker 1: about one reason for this, which is that you know, 103 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: if you actually did have to wait for your your 104 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,720 Speaker 1: body's water content to get all leveled out right before 105 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: your thirst went away, you might you might like kill 106 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,359 Speaker 1: yourself drinking gallons and gallons of water because you know 107 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: over the course of the tens of minutes that it 108 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 1: takes for this change to to take hold. But there's 109 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: another reason one of the authors of this paper brings 110 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: up that's in this Greenwood article in the Times. Quote, 111 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: aside from the specter of water intoxication, there are good 112 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 1: reasons to drink only the minimum amount necessary when an 113 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,599 Speaker 1: animal lowers its head to drink, dr Oka speculated, and 114 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: that's Dr Yukioka. Uh, it's in quite a vulnerable position. Quote. 115 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: If you double the time of ingestion, that should double 116 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: the risk of being prey. He said, Uh. And I 117 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: thought that was interesting too. I mean, I think it 118 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: is true that in the natural environment, as we brought 119 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: up in the previous episode. Going for water is often 120 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: putting yourself in a vulnerable position, you know, maybe um, 121 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: exposing yourself from hiding or shelter and sort of turning 122 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: your attention away from scanning your surroundings. Yeah. I mean 123 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: in many cases too, they the access point to the 124 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: water might not provide much in the way of cover 125 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 1: for smaller animals, and then for larger animals there may 126 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: be you know, bodily positions they have to get into 127 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: to drink that put them in a greater state of vulnerability, 128 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: Like I'm thinking of of a drafte for instance. The 129 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: draffe of course is a pretty formidable animal. Uh, but 130 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: but still there's a certain awkwardness present when it actually 131 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: has to drink water. Sorry, I just started thinking about 132 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: game or fuel. Um, yeah, this is this says. I 133 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: have no research to back this up. There's just observational 134 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: material for me. But I think everyone knows that I 135 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: enjoy watching the squirrels and um, we have a bird 136 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: bath outside, uh, near our feeders, and the bird bath 137 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: is positioned right up against the fence, and the squirrels 138 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: drink from that all the time. But I wonder how 139 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: much I wonder how much of that is that they're 140 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: able to drink from the bird bath while essentially remaining 141 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: in a vertical position attached to the to the fence, 142 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: like they don't have to, you know, go across the clearing. 143 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: They have I guess, pretty good cover for a squirrel. 144 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: Those squirrels are bold in other ways that, you know, 145 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: make you think that they're they're less concerned, or they're 146 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 1: or they're in control of the situation as far as 147 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,439 Speaker 1: potential predators go. So, if you happen to have sitter 148 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: squirrels and rover squirrels, your bird bath is positioned in 149 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:48,199 Speaker 1: such a way that even the sitter squirrels could could 150 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: get to it, I guess so. But then, yeah, I 151 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: don't know. I'd be interested to hear what anyone else 152 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: out there has observed with their squirrels and drinking water 153 00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: from bird baths and other water water sources. They seem 154 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 1: to like one thing versus the other. I don't know. 155 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: They certainly drink more water than my cat. I'll give 156 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: them that well. Anyway. There was another article from the 157 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: very next year, also in the New York Times, also 158 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 1: by Greenwood, covering follow up research from some of the 159 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: same scientists. So this was published May nineteen just called 160 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: the Neurobiology of Thirst, and this is summarizing a study 161 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: published in twenty nineteen in the journal Neuron where the 162 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: authors oh again. The first author on this one was 163 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:35,319 Speaker 1: Vanite Augustine and it was called Temporally and spatially distinct 164 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: thirst Satiation Signals UM and the authors here found that 165 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: the pleasure we get from drinking when thirsty is once 166 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: again not directly related to hydration. It is a reward 167 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 1: pathway separated by both time and space from the body's 168 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 1: hydration and osmolality monitoring mechanisms. And one of the major 169 00:09:56,760 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: findings in this paper is that though drinking water is 170 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: associated with a dopamine release, this this is a typical 171 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: signal that the brain is expecting a reward. Right you know, 172 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: things that you want, you want to get and feel 173 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: good when you get them. That that's often that involves 174 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: a dopamine release. But the feeling of rewards in the 175 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: brain here is apparently not tied to becoming hydrated after 176 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: being dehydrated, but specifically to the act of drinking water 177 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 1: through the mouth. So if you're dehydrated and then you 178 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: suddenly receive water through an I V or even via 179 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 1: a direct injection into the stomach. Your thirst will eventually 180 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: go away after your body adjusts to the new fluid levels, 181 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: but you won't get that feeling of reward satisfaction or 182 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:49,679 Speaker 1: the corresponding dopamine release. Those come specifically from the activity 183 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: of drinking, the gulping of water through the mouth. And 184 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: picking up on this, I was actually looking at one 185 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:57,959 Speaker 1: more paper that had an interesting finding I wanted to mention. 186 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 1: This other one was a little leer. This was from 187 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: published in Nature called thirst neurons anticipate the homeostatic consequences 188 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,679 Speaker 1: of eating and drinking, and this is by Zimmerman at 189 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: All and this study found, among other things, a dual 190 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: track monitoring system for thirst management, so along the lines 191 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: we've already been talking about it. It found that if 192 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: you take mice and you give them some salt and 193 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: make them thirsty, drinking water rapidly inhibits neurons in a 194 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: region of the brain called the sub formical organ or SFO, 195 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: and that leads to thirst quenching. And of course this 196 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: is before there is any notable change in blood osmlality. 197 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: But it also found that if you take these thirsty 198 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 1: mice and you give them very salty water and and 199 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: the opportunity to drink it. They will drink it, and 200 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: initially they will gulp it down and it will inhibit 201 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 1: the sf O neurons and apparently quench thirst just like 202 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: the fresh water. But the quenching doesn't last for very long, 203 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: and they right quote. This initial decline was reversed after 204 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: approximately one minute. This indicates that the rapid anticipatory response 205 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 1: to drinking has at least two components, an immediate signal 206 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: that tracks fluid ingestion and a delayed signal that reports 207 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: on fluid tonicity, possibly generated by an esophageal or gastric 208 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: osmo sensor. So if you put all of this together, 209 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: it seems like you've got at least three different time 210 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,959 Speaker 1: dependent levels of of sort of the body's quench watch uh. 211 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: And so you put them all together, and you've got 212 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:39,319 Speaker 1: one system that's like are you gulping fluid? If you are, 213 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 1: oh that's very good, very good, thou art quenched. But 214 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: then there's a second system on a slight delay from 215 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: that one, roughly one minute of delay in mice, It's like, 216 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: wait a second, what exactly was that you were just gulping. 217 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 1: Was that oil or was that super salty water? You know, what, 218 00:12:57,920 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: what are you trying to pull? And if it well, 219 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: if it was not good fresh water, then it will cancel, 220 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: cancel the quench and return the thirst. And then finally, 221 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,439 Speaker 1: I guess there's just the direct blood volume and osmalality monitoring, 222 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 1: which is on a much greater delay than the other two. 223 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: Uh So, first of all, reminder, if anyone else, if 224 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: anyone is interested in the whole drinking saltwater thing, we 225 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: did a whole episode on drinking saltwater a while back. 226 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,319 Speaker 1: You should be able to find that in the archives. 227 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 1: Not a good idea was It was one of the 228 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: main findings there. But the the other thing, I think, 229 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: and we've kind of we've kind of touched on this 230 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 1: a little bit already, but um, you know, it would 231 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: be a mistake to think of like, okay, it's just 232 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: you know, what's drinking water, water in water out. Um, 233 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 1: you know, even if you you then acknowledge, okay, well 234 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: you know the levels have to be just right. But 235 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,839 Speaker 1: it's it's more than that. It's not like organisms just 236 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: one day we're like, hey, there's water we can drink 237 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 1: that we should use this to our advantage. Now, like 238 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 1: we are of water, so it's like water in am 239 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: water if all of doubt of things in water, um, etcetera. 240 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: So it's it makes sense that there would be a 241 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: more complex relationship with multiple triggers that uh you know 242 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,839 Speaker 1: that that we're still trying to understand. Yeah, I mean, 243 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: as we said at the very beginning, you you are 244 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: the direct descendant of creatures that long ago lived in 245 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: the ocean and all of your ancestors, just like you 246 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: brought the ocean with you onto land, the ocean is 247 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: now inside your skin. Yes. Oh, and before I wrap up, 248 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: this last study I mentioned also documents interesting evidence for 249 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: the the oral cooling mechanism of thirst quenching that I 250 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: brought up in the previous episode. So the authors here 251 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: say that quote we found that are playing cold but 252 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: not room temperature metal to the oral cavity of awake 253 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 1: thirsty mice was sufficient to rapidly inhibit SFO neurons. Thus, 254 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: temperature dependent modulation of SFO neurons may explain the enigmatic 255 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: connection between oral cooling and thirst, including why thirsty rodents 256 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: will avidly lick cold metal and humans report that's sucking 257 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: on ice chips rapidly relieves thirst. That's interesting. I hadn't 258 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: really thought about that with sucking on ice chips, though obviously, 259 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: I mean that's I think that's something we all do 260 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: if we have access to iced drinks. Of course. The 261 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 1: thing with with ice, of course, is that ice melts 262 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: in your mouth as well and actually serves to hydrate you. Right, 263 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: But that the the cooling effect of having the ice 264 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: in the mouth may provide a level of of thirst 265 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: quenching sensation that goes beyond the actual amount of water 266 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: you're taking in from that ice. This gives me a 267 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: great idea, um so showrunners and so forth, of the Witcher. 268 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: If you're listening, I would love to see a scene 269 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 1: where Henry Cavill's uh Witcher character share some wisdom and 270 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: he's like, sometimes when when I'm thirsty, I just have 271 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: a good lick of my sword takes you know. It 272 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 1: would be gre Haven scene everyway. It's just kind of 273 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: licking is the blade of his sword. I've never heard 274 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: this before that apparently thirsty, thirsty rodents will lick cold metal. 275 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, but and it's good enough for mice, 276 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 1: it's good enough for the Wincher, I think all Gerrold 277 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: is just gonna that's that's how you cut your tongue, buddy, 278 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: That's how you cut your tongue. Oh, you know, it 279 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: reminds me of brom Stoker's Dracula. We have that wonderful 280 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 1: scene where Gary Oldman's elderly Dracula licks the blood from 281 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: the straight razor. See, he was thirsty and he quenched 282 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: the thirst, but also hopefully the blade was cold enough 283 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: that that also had an effect on him. Well, I 284 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: guess after all these studies we looked at on on 285 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: on the quenching mechanism, I'm wondering, so the two main 286 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: different ones have emerged. One is the oral cooling mechanism 287 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: and the other is the gulping mechanism. You know, the 288 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: muscular movements in the throat is you're swallowing large amounts 289 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: of water. Uh. And I'm I guess I'm not sure 290 00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: if these two different explanations are competing or if they're complementary. 291 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: Maybe they both play a role in in regulating these 292 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:04,880 Speaker 1: thirst neurons in the s f O. I'm not sure 293 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: than now, given all the things we've discussed about the 294 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 1: complexity of thirst, sensations and water acquisition by various organisms. 295 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,919 Speaker 1: I thought it might be um be interesting to to 296 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 1: look at a couple of examples that, in different ways 297 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 1: seem to hijack mechanisms of related to thirst and our 298 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 1: relationship with water, not only ours, but also some other 299 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 1: organisms for the benefit of a life form, not the 300 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:42,959 Speaker 1: life form that is uh that is potentially thirsty, but 301 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 1: a life form that is um uh that is hijacking 302 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 1: that organism, uh, such as a parasite or a virus. 303 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: Oh interesting, so uh. The first one I want to 304 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,400 Speaker 1: mention here is is one that definitely affects humans, and 305 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,880 Speaker 1: that is raybies. Now, I imagine I think everyone has 306 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: heard of rabies, if not buckling, because I'm gonna share 307 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: a little bit though. This is obviously a topic that 308 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: you know, we could really bust out if we wanted 309 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: to and give a full episode treatment. But even if 310 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 1: you're just vaguely familiar with rabies, uh, you know, you 311 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: might not grasp the full danger and horror of this 312 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: particular zoonotic viral disease. I think a while back I've 313 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 1: read at least somebody making the case that rabies is 314 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: a contender for like the worst disease known. Yeah, it 315 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: is pretty horrifying and for a lot of people in 316 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: UM in the world, particularly and let's let's say the 317 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:42,400 Speaker 1: United States, you're lucky enough to to live largely removed 318 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: from it. Um. I think that the US is sometimes 319 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:50,400 Speaker 1: class of classified as being free of canine rabies. Now 320 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,119 Speaker 1: there are still cases of canine rabies that pop up, 321 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:56,199 Speaker 1: and there are deaths that occur, but but not at 322 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: the same rate as as other parts of the world 323 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 1: where the problem has not been contained as well. So 324 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 1: it's uh. Rabies is caused by the virus Lissa virus, 325 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: which essentially means rage poison. It's named for the Greek 326 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:13,400 Speaker 1: goddess Lissa, the goddess of rage, fury, and rabies Uh, 327 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:17,920 Speaker 1: the daughter of Nicks, sprung from the blood of Laurnus 328 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 1: um and Uh, and she pops up in different tales, like, 329 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:24,640 Speaker 1: for instance, that the urging of hera, she inflicts madness 330 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,919 Speaker 1: on Heracles, and in some tellings she's also involved in 331 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 1: the punishment of the hunter Acteon, who's torn apart by 332 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 1: his own mad hunting dogs. And in memory Serves, there 333 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: are some interesting treatments of this UH. This latter tale 334 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: in art I think he he looked at a god 335 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: or something to that effect. You know, you don't have 336 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: to do much to get to torn apart by dogs 337 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: when you're dealing with the Greek pantheon. Yeah. I don't 338 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,400 Speaker 1: remember all the details, but I think he makes Artemis 339 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: angry for some reason, and then he's a hunter. But 340 00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:00,040 Speaker 1: then he's transformed into the quarry like he's trying it 341 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 1: is formed into a stag or something, and then his 342 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,439 Speaker 1: own hunting dogs hunt thatch. Right, there's some transformation involved 343 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: there as well. So humans have been exposed to rabies 344 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 1: for a very long time. It's um. It's thought that 345 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: it probably originated in Old world bats and especially flourished 346 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:20,199 Speaker 1: during the heyday of of dog domestication. So it is, 347 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:24,439 Speaker 1: you know, it is. It is definitely tied to the 348 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 1: canine world. According to the History of Rabies in the 349 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:33,919 Speaker 1: Western Hemisphere by Velasco Villa at All, published in Anti 350 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 1: Viral Research UM, the earliest record of a disease affecting 351 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: humans that's consistent with rabies and associated with dogs is 352 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: found in the Eshnuna cuneiform law tablets in ancient Mesopotamia 353 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 1: dating back to the eighteenth through nineteenth centuries b c. Wow, Yeah, 354 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: and I believe memory served it. It concerns like laws 355 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: concerning um dogs biting people, like if you you have 356 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: a dog and it bites somebody. And of course we 357 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 1: have other references to UH to either cases that seem 358 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 1: like they could be rabies or we feel pretty strongly 359 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 1: are referring to rabies. Aristotle wrote seem to have wrote 360 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:19,439 Speaker 1: of it in three thirty b c. Quote dogs suffer 361 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 1: from the madness. This causes them to become very irritable, 362 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: and all animals they bite become diseased. Democratusts and Hippocrates 363 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: also wrote of it as well, And there are comparisons 364 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 1: to raging dogs in the Iliad that it seems like 365 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: maybe you're less certain that this is referring, because of 366 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: course a dog can rage. I guess it doesn't have 367 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:43,159 Speaker 1: to be rabbit. But they are also mentions of the 368 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 1: dog star Ryan exerting a malignant influence on human health 369 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: and UH and rabies is just a terrible disease, especially 370 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,439 Speaker 1: when you really get into what it can do to 371 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 1: an organism and what it can do to human being. UH. 372 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: To day, it's vaccine preventable, and the vaccines keep improving, 373 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:09,440 Speaker 1: but once clinical symptoms appear, it is fatal. According to 374 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: the World Health Organization, in cases domestic dogs are responsible 375 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: for spreading it to humans. Again, in the United States, 376 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: it is effectively we're effectively canine rabies free, though you 377 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 1: will still find cases that occur and deaths that occur. 378 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,400 Speaker 1: So um, it's it's still possible, but it is largely 379 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,679 Speaker 1: under control. In other parts of the world it's not 380 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: the case. And so um, you know, this is all 381 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 1: a great reminder why it is important to get your 382 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 1: dog rabies vaccine and to also get yourself immunized if 383 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: you come into contact with the disease, and that time 384 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: is very important. They're right, Yeah, So that the incubation 385 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: period for rabies is typically two to three months, but 386 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: may vary from one week to a year. And I 387 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: think it depends on like the viral load on you know, 388 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:07,239 Speaker 1: being introduced into your body and some other factors. And 389 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 1: then there are two forms of the disease that are 390 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: possible in humans. So once you know this virus is 391 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 1: in your system, uh. One version is paralytic rabies. This 392 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: only occurs in about twenty of cases, and it consists 393 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 1: of gradual muscle paralyzation, coma, and death. It's often misdiagnosed, 394 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: but again, like twenty of cases, this is what occurs. 395 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: The other, however, is the the the the incarnation of 396 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 1: of rabies that certainly brings to mind these ideas of 397 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: strange curses from the gods, you know, the really horrible stuff, 398 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: and that's furious rabies. Symptoms here include hyperactivity, excitable behavior, hydrophobia, 399 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: the fear of water, and sometimes aerophobias, well, fear of 400 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: drafts of fresh air or you know, blasts of air, 401 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 1: that sort of thing. And eath occurs in these cases 402 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: within a few days due to cardiac arrest. Now, I 403 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: gotta admit I've always heard uh rabies described as or 404 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: associated with this idea of hydrophobia, which obviously, yeah, that 405 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: means fear of water, But I never knew exactly what 406 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: to make of that, Like what does that mean in practice? Yeah, 407 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 1: because it's you know, when you start thinking about like 408 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,679 Speaker 1: the things that are a viral infection does like, you know, 409 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: to to what extent is it about prolonging that virus 410 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 1: or or or you know, achieving something and it's um uh, 411 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: you know, and in it in its cycle um and 412 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:40,880 Speaker 1: uh and as you look into it, it's it's really 413 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: quite interesting. So, um, again, this is the really horrible 414 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: fate the furious rabies. If one comes down with this 415 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: person's behavior and mood is drastically altered, anxiety, hallucinations, confusion, paranoia, terror, 416 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: and they tend to experience both a profound thirst and 417 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 1: a severe in a bill clity to quench that thirst. 418 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: So what does all this mean? Well, keep in mind 419 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,919 Speaker 1: that saliva is central to rabies transmission. Uh. You know, 420 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: if you think of if you just hear the words 421 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: rabid dog, the image that probably comes to mind is 422 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: that of a dog frothing at the mouth, right with 423 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: the frothing saliva right. And it's generally understood that I 424 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: guess the saliva is what transmits the disease. Like if 425 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,360 Speaker 1: you are bitten by a dog that has rabies or 426 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: by an animal that has rabies, the saliva will transmit 427 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 1: it to your blood. Is that a real route of transmission? Yes, 428 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: that is the primary route of transmission. Um Bites and 429 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: scratches are are the most common ways that it is, 430 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: uh just transmitted. There are other ways, you know, basically 431 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: any infected fluid um could do it. But those are 432 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: uncommon compared to bites and scratches, especially when you're you know, 433 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: think of a dog, think of think of even you know, 434 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 1: a bat or or any other organism that would carry rabies. 435 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 1: The bite is the thing, and it's steered in these 436 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,880 Speaker 1: cases by you know, enhanced aggression and uh and altered 437 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: behavior and seemingly you know prod. The mouth is primed 438 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 1: to transmit the virus by excess infectious frothing saliva. Okay, 439 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: so much in the same way that respiratory viruses that 440 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: are spread by aerosols or droplets might tend to cause 441 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 1: the infected person to cough or sneeze in order to 442 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 1: further spread themselves to other people. Uh. This disease that 443 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: is spread often by saliva into blood through bites, uh, 444 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: it would tend to cause the infected animal too froth 445 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 1: in the mouth with a lot of infectious saliva and 446 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,400 Speaker 1: to be irritable or or aggressive in ways that would 447 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 1: lead to biting. Right, And that brings us back to 448 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,880 Speaker 1: this question of hydrophobia. Like, then then for what reason, 449 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,640 Speaker 1: you know, seemingly like what role does does the fear uh? 450 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,199 Speaker 1: And does this terror at the idea of water have 451 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: to do with anything UM so humans. This appears to 452 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,400 Speaker 1: manifest as a kind of panic that sets in when 453 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: presented with water and difficulty in or inability to drink, 454 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: like attempts to drink may result in spasms. There is 455 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 1: some clinical footage you can find online of of individuals 456 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: UH that have been diagnosed with rabies attempting to drink water, 457 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,120 Speaker 1: and I do not I do not very disturbing footage, 458 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,199 Speaker 1: so I don't recommend seeking it out. But if you 459 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:30,159 Speaker 1: find yourself in need of of of the visuals for 460 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: this UH, there there is some documentation online. I believe 461 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: a case in Vietnam is is typically UH typically sided here. Now, 462 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 1: does the difficulty with drinking water UH when someone is 463 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 1: infected with rabies usually have something to do with difficulty 464 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: in muscle control, for like swallowing through neurological routes. Yes, yes, 465 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: definitely so. And the in the insidious nature of all this, though, 466 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 1: is that since the individual is prohibited from drinking water 467 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: by the infection UM or at least the drinking water 468 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 1: becomes excruciatingly difficult UH, saliva production increases. You have hypersalivation 469 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 1: and they can't swallow the excess saliva um. And that's 470 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: and they can't wash away this excess for frau things saliva. 471 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 1: So in other words, it primes the victim's mouth to 472 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 1: be this potent transmitter of the virus, especially through a byte. Uh. 473 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: So it's um. Yeah, it has a real insidious quality 474 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 1: to it. But as as horrible as rabies is. Againfortunately 475 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: there are vaccines that exist, right, Yes, so again all 476 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,959 Speaker 1: a great reminder you get your pet vaccinated for rabies. 477 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: And if you come into contact with a with an 478 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: animal that that has rabies or may have had rabies, Uh, 479 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: you definitely need to go to a doctor. They can 480 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: take care of it. You don't want this, this is 481 00:28:53,400 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 1: this is not an illness you want running its course. Yeah. 482 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: Now I wanted to share another example though that seems 483 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: to go or potentially goes in the opposite direction. Uh. 484 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: Rabies inhibits thirst and and and alters thirst in that direction. 485 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 1: But if we look to uh, to to the world 486 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: of the horsehair worm, we see something that that that 487 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: may possibly be involved in generating excessive thirst in the host. 488 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 1: So uh, this would have to do with parasitoid worms 489 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 1: from the phylum Nematamorpha. Uh. They're known as horsehair worms 490 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 1: because their threadlike round worms that resemble the hair of 491 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: a horse's tail or maine. Now some of you may 492 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: have seen these before. Um, these are creatures that you'll 493 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: sometimes find living free in a puddle or stream. I 494 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: think I saw one once like this while while walking 495 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: on on on on my mom's property. But you can 496 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: also see occasionally burst out of the body of a cricket, mantis, beetle, 497 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 1: or other host organism, very much like a xeno morph. Oh. Now, 498 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: maybe I was seeing something else, but I know I've 499 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: seen video of something that was like a long, thin 500 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: worm that was just gradually spooling out of a cricket 501 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:25,479 Speaker 1: sexo skeleton to just and it just kept spooling and 502 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: spooling and spooling, almost like the clown car where you know, 503 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: fifty clowns get out of a Volkswagen. But it's a 504 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 1: worm that seems bigger than the cricket it was inside. Yes, 505 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: and it's it's crazy to watch. I have a very 506 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: vivid memory of being in a junior high band environment 507 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 1: and there was a cricket on the floor and somebody 508 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: in a neighboring section was grossed out by the presence 509 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 1: of the cricket, and so they stopped it. And then 510 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: once they had stopped the cricket, this horsehair worm began 511 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 1: emerging from the cricket, which of course only further grows 512 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,120 Speaker 1: out the individual who'd stopped the cricket. So there's kind 513 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 1: there's some sort of weird, horrific justice in that. Like 514 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: if you think the crickets grows, will just wait until 515 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: you see what the encore is. Surely it helped that 516 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 1: in band practice that day you were playing Carmena barana. Yeah, 517 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: if only so. Um. The interesting thing here is that 518 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: the adults um of this species and in these these 519 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 1: these organisms, they are free living in the water, but 520 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: the larva are are parasitic and grow to adulthood inside 521 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: the body of an insect. So um, I think you 522 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: can all imagine how this probably goes down. Male and 523 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: female horse hair worms mate and damp soil and fresh water, 524 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: and then the female lays millions of eggs. These eggs 525 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 1: hatch and the tiny larvae insist on vegetation near the 526 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: water's edge. And then what happens while a cricket or 527 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: some other suitable host drops by, uh, it ends up 528 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 1: eating that larva one way or another. Um either either 529 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: the you know, like a cricket is eating the grass, 530 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: or like a mantis is going to eat the larva itself. 531 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 1: And so what happens then is a like a cricket 532 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 1: comes along and it it eats the grass that has 533 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 1: this uh this larva on it, or if it's a 534 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 1: carnivorous mantis, well then it eats a cricket that has 535 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 1: already been uh infected by the larva. In either case, 536 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: the larva winds up inside of another organism. The cyst dissolves, 537 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: and then the juvenile worm escapes, bores through the gut wall, 538 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 1: and starts absorbing nutrients from the host organism. This worm 539 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: has a move fast and break things philosophy. It is 540 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: a it is a disruptor of the internal organs of 541 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: its host, right, and at this point, it's kind of 542 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 1: it's kind of like you can imagine it like a 543 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: stowaway in the hold of a ship. You know, it's 544 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 1: it's rummaging around, it's eating some of the stored food supplies, 545 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: maybe eating the occasional crew member on that ship um 546 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 1: and man, and otherwise also damaging the ship. But it 547 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 1: doesn't need if you're stowaway human stow and a ship. 548 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 1: What do you want to do? You want to get 549 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: to a port somewhere, right and uh And likewise with 550 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 1: this worm, it needs to get to water or damp 551 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: soil in order to uh continue its life cycle. Uh. Now, 552 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 1: if if something happens to the cricket, if it's gets 553 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 1: stomped in on the floor of a middle school band room, 554 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: is going to escape, It's going to uh, you know, 555 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: abandaged ship. But it needs to get to damp soil 556 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: or fresh water. So it may be moving fast and 557 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: breaking things, but it's going to try to do so 558 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: in such a way that it ends up at a 559 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 1: certain place when when the whole thing goes to put right, 560 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 1: it needs to steer the host in the right direction. 561 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: And so this is where we get that bit of 562 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 1: parasitic hijacking and action um or at least that's that's 563 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 1: one hypothesis of exactly what's going on. That the worm 564 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 1: instills a crazed thirst in the host so that it 565 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 1: seeks out water. That's sometimes referred to as the thirst 566 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 1: hypothesis m M. An alternate hypothesis states of the worm 567 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 1: simply waits till the host finds water on its own 568 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 1: and then it jumps out. And it's my understanding that 569 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 1: we're really not onecent sure what happens that there. There's 570 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 1: some some interesting evidence for for both both hypotheses. Uh. 571 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: Ed Young and Ted talk Um mentioned that there's research 572 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 1: that indicates that this may occur because the organism releases 573 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:32,840 Speaker 1: proteins that alter the crickets brain functionality. Uh so, and 574 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 1: and there does seem to be some sort of of 575 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 1: It seems like there is a strong case to be 576 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,480 Speaker 1: made that some sort of hijacking is taking place. And 577 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,280 Speaker 1: if that's occurring, uh, it may be pushing the animal 578 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 1: towards water via thirst. Okay, so I guess that would 579 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 1: mean you might be able to notice this if you 580 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: had a place where a bunch of insects were getting 581 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 1: infected by this parasite, they would be showing a lot 582 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,879 Speaker 1: of drinking behavior, a lot of water drinking behavior, right. 583 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,759 Speaker 1: But then again, yeah, there's also the other argument. Well, 584 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 1: it's just it's waiting until the water is until it's 585 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,240 Speaker 1: until it's drinking. Even even that that would be pretty 586 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 1: impressive because it's that like, how does the how does 587 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: the worm know what's going on inside the darkness of 588 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: the cricket or the darkness of the mantis that enables 589 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: the still away to know that there is water or 590 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,839 Speaker 1: damp soil close at hand. But I was looking at 591 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 1: some of the papers that discussed this. There was a 592 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 1: this is of course, this is a much older paper now, 593 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,120 Speaker 1: but there was a two thousand one study published in 594 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 1: the German journal zoo Logishire and zeyger Um that says 595 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: that the thirst hypothesis has been supported by observations of 596 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 1: quote unquote suicidal behavior by infected mantis is in southern 597 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 1: France that would seemingly jump into the water and then 598 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,239 Speaker 1: immediately outcomes the worm. Um So that would be a 599 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 1: case where yeah, like the mantis is not just going 600 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 1: to the water, it is to drink and then it 601 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,799 Speaker 1: bursts out. It's actually jumping in. It's it's it's giving 602 00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 1: up the ghost. Um So. But I guess with that 603 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:02,359 Speaker 1: you still would have to ask your question, at what 604 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 1: point is there some hijacking of behavior? Was it the 605 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: was seeking the water to begin with, or was it 606 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 1: something that kicked in when uh, the creature was close 607 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 1: to water. So we're not sure exactly. Uh, you know 608 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:17,880 Speaker 1: which way way to go? On this as far as 609 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 1: I understand based on the research I was looking at. 610 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: But it seems like either way you're getting into these 611 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 1: interesting Um, you're getting into the relationship between the host 612 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 1: organism and water. You know something about its Uh, it's 613 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:35,400 Speaker 1: bodily awareness of water or the thirst or desire to 614 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 1: be in close proximity to water, and of course that 615 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,840 Speaker 1: is ultimately what the parasite wants as well. Right, So 616 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,280 Speaker 1: the parasite either needs a mechanism of making the host 617 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,360 Speaker 1: to go drink water or knowing when the host is 618 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 1: drinking water. Right in case anybody's worried. Uh, it's my 619 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: understanding that that occasionally humans end up ingesting these things. 620 00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,360 Speaker 1: But I don't think there's there's ever been any evidence 621 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,279 Speaker 1: or anything to support the idea that they're capable of 622 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,760 Speaker 1: hijacking human behavior. Again, if that is indeed what's happening 623 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,800 Speaker 1: in the case of crickets and mantiss, well, what happens 624 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,600 Speaker 1: when humans do ingest them, Um, it's just kind of gross. 625 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:14,839 Speaker 1: They could like bombing them up. I was looking there 626 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:20,000 Speaker 1: were two Japanese cases reported in due to the accidental 627 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,400 Speaker 1: ingestation of infected insects. I think in these cases that 628 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,759 Speaker 1: this has occurred via the consumption of vegetables that had 629 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,399 Speaker 1: those insisted larvae on them. You're in, some vegetables seem 630 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 1: like they'd be a lot better at hiding a little 631 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:36,840 Speaker 1: stowaways than others. Oh yeah, I have this consistent problem 632 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 1: with broccoli. I love broccoli. I love cooking with it. 633 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 1: But I a number of times I've been like giving 634 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 1: it a rinse before I cook it or something, and 635 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:47,799 Speaker 1: then I'm like, oh, there's just a bug up in 636 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 1: the up in the tree limbs. They're hiding out in 637 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,760 Speaker 1: a little fork in the in the florets. That's true. 638 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess the it's kind of a the 639 00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 1: kind of thing about broccoli, right, is that the thing 640 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,400 Speaker 1: that makes it so delicious, that's it's so great to 641 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,320 Speaker 1: cook because you get you know, all the the oil 642 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,359 Speaker 1: or the seasoning. It ends up just getting embedded there 643 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: in all the little nooks and crannies. It also means 644 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: they're all these additional places that I guess something could 645 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,279 Speaker 1: potentially hide, or you could just end up with some 646 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,880 Speaker 1: dirt or grit in there. Maybe I'm just getting my 647 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 1: broccoli from really buggy sources. I don't know. Sometimes I 648 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,880 Speaker 1: get like CSA broccoli. That's it's it's really nice, good stuff. 649 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 1: But there's just like a there's just a big old 650 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 1: bug in there, just just like tarantula is crawling out 651 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:35,719 Speaker 1: of it through your kitchen and stuff almost. I mean, 652 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,160 Speaker 1: it's all just a good reminder, you know, wash washer 653 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 1: vegetables everybody, even if you're not sure they need it, 654 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 1: you know, you give them a once over. Why not, right, 655 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,520 Speaker 1: you'll feel better about it, especially if you're if you're 656 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,799 Speaker 1: listening to this episode whilst cooking. All right, we're gonna 657 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 1: go ahead and close out first part three. What do 658 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:52,839 Speaker 1: you think, Joe, do you think we'll be back with 659 00:38:53,040 --> 00:39:00,399 Speaker 1: Thirst four colon Thirst for Knowledge the Return of Jack Thirst. Yes, yes, yes, 660 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 1: we will be back. I'm sure of it. Yeah, like 661 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:07,720 Speaker 1: this Thursday, back this Thurst Today, back Thursday, This Thursday, 662 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:12,520 Speaker 1: Thirst Part four, Thirst for More Knowledge, the final chapter 663 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 1: on the final chapter only on Stuff to Blow Your 664 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,879 Speaker 1: Mind or some other topic. I don't know. We'll see 665 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,759 Speaker 1: how I guess. All right. In the meantime, if you 666 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:22,840 Speaker 1: would like to check out other episodes of Stuff to 667 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:24,920 Speaker 1: Blow Your Mind, you know where to find them there 668 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:26,759 Speaker 1: in the Stuff to Blow Your Mind Podcast feed every 669 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 1: Tuesday and Thursday. Uh, you can find it wherever you 670 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:31,920 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. You can also go to stuff to 671 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:33,680 Speaker 1: Blow your Mind dot com and that will shoot you 672 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:37,000 Speaker 1: over to the I heart listing for this show. Um, 673 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: I think there's a there's a Yeah, there is a 674 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 1: link to our our t shirt store there if you 675 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,279 Speaker 1: just want to pick up some sort of stuff to 676 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:47,320 Speaker 1: blow your mind related design on a shirt or a sticker. Um, 677 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:49,759 Speaker 1: we actually have a We may be getting some new 678 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,880 Speaker 1: ones in the weeks and months ahead. And I know 679 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:57,440 Speaker 1: there are some some designs by listeners that I have 680 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,360 Speaker 1: that I've added in recent months. So there's a leshy 681 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,759 Speaker 1: t shirt in there. There's um, there's a kind of 682 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,319 Speaker 1: psychedelic looking mushroom in there. And uh, let's see what's 683 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,880 Speaker 1: the other one. Oh yeah, there's the Pandora's box, uh shirt. 684 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,359 Speaker 1: Those are all wonderful designs, So check those out if 685 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,960 Speaker 1: you want to. Um, pretty fun. And let's see what else. 686 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,320 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Tuesday and Thursday Core episodes, Wednesday's Artifact, Monday's 687 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,719 Speaker 1: Listener Mail. Friday is weird House Cinema. That's our kind 688 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,360 Speaker 1: of satisfied most serious matters and just talk about a 689 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,520 Speaker 1: strange film huge things. As always to our excellent audio 690 00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 1: producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get 691 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:32,920 Speaker 1: in touch for us with feedback on this episode or 692 00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 1: any other, to suggest a topic for the future, just 693 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:37,960 Speaker 1: to say hello, you can email us at contact at 694 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:48,239 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind dot com Stuff to Blow 695 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,799 Speaker 1: Your Mind. It's production of I Heart Radio. For more 696 00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:53,439 Speaker 1: podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 697 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:59,360 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listening to your favorite shows 698 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:12,080 Speaker 1: that the present point four point four Foo