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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly Jongfast, and this is Fast Politics, where

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Speaker 1: we discuss the top political headlines with some of today's

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Speaker 1: best minds. And President Trump has made more trades since

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Speaker 1: his inauguration than all of Congress combined. We have such

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Speaker 1: a great show for you today. The Washington Sun's Evan

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Speaker 1: McMorris Santoro stops by to talk about the death of

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Speaker 1: Trump's mail-in balloting. Then we'll talk to the Searchlight Institute's

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Speaker 1: own Adam Jentleson about his new book, Supermajority, How Democrats

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Speaker 1: Can Build Lasting Power. But first, the news.

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Speaker 2: So Molly, I don't know about you, but most of

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Speaker 2: the weddings I've been to, they're usually paid for by

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Speaker 2: somebody in the family of the bride or the groom.

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Speaker 2: Just most of them.

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Speaker 1: Not Don Jr. 's second wedding. I'm sorry to tell

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Speaker 1: you that Don Jr. 's second wedding turns out was

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Speaker 1: paid for by a Russian oligarch. This is the kind

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Speaker 1: of thing, by the way, that when it came out

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Speaker 1: from ProPublica, I wrote to the journalist who wrote it,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, I bet you there's more to

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Speaker 1: this story. Like, this is the tale of a story. Like,

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Speaker 1: you don't pay for two days of parties unless there's more.

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Speaker 1: First of all, a few thoughts on this. Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: did not go. So the question is, why didn't Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump Sr.

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Speaker 3: Go, right?

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Speaker 1: But really, so he must have known that there were

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Speaker 1: sketchy Russian oligarchs involved. And the whole thing is nuts.

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Speaker 1: The best part is when Don Jr. 's second wife said,

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Speaker 1: I just want everyone to know this is fake news.

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Speaker 1: They paid for after the wedding party. And even like

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Speaker 1: the defense of it, we saw Anna Paulina Luna try

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Speaker 1: to defend this on CNN. And she, you know, she

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Speaker 1: was like, well, it's totally different than Hunter Biden. And

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Speaker 1: the truth is like Hunter Biden's meme coin, bad. Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump's wedding paid for by a Russian oligarch, also bad.

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Speaker 1: Like both things can be bad, bad and bad, both bad.

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Speaker 1: Here's the line from ranking member Garcia, who we talk

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Speaker 1: to all the time on this podcast. Oversight Dems are

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Speaker 1: investigating the numerous ways in which the Trump family have

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Speaker 1: sought to enrich themselves on the basis of proximity to

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump. And this guy, Umar, is a big friend

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Speaker 1: of Putin's, has traveled with Putin. He's an oligarch. This

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Speaker 1: thing is just the beginning. I bet you this the

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Speaker 1: first story and that there are going to be a

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Speaker 1: lot of other stories related to this. And this is

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Speaker 1: totally unsurprising. And, you know, they admitted it. And then

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Speaker 1: they were like, this is fake news. Like if it's

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Speaker 1: fake news, then it should be fake. Not you shouldn't

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Speaker 1: admit it. It's so incredibly unsurprising. It's kind of amazing.

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Speaker 2: Can I tell you my theory on why Trump didn't

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Speaker 2: attend the wedding?

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Speaker 1: Tell me.

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Speaker 2: This is definitely accurate. He read Patrick Radden Keefe's London

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Speaker 2: Folly because he's a very big reader and he saw

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Speaker 2: what happens when you hang out with Russian oligarchs.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what happened is reading.

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Speaker 2: OK, all kidding aside, Jared Kushner, another member of the

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Speaker 2: Trump family, he's making bank off the Iran negotiations. I

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Speaker 2: can't believe this family is enriching themselves in these ways.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you'll be shocked to know. And by shocked, I

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Speaker 1: mean not at all shocked to know that Jared Kushner

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Speaker 1: is enriching himself from the negotiations. the story. This is

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Speaker 1: a Dexter Filkins story from The New Yorker. And it's

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Speaker 1: really a good story. And it's a really important story.

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Speaker 1: And in it, not only is there the fact that

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Speaker 1: Jared is enriching himself, but there's also just this incredible

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Speaker 1: thing that they don't know what they're doing. So like

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Speaker 1: we got into this war because Kushner and Witkoff, or

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Speaker 1: as we call them, Rosencrantz and Guildenstein, they were negotiating this,

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Speaker 1: but they didn't know any think about nukes. So they

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Speaker 1: didn't have any way to know because they don't know

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Speaker 1: anything what was really happening. So they decided that the

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Speaker 1: Iranians were trying to get out of the deal when

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Speaker 1: in fact it's possible that the Iranians were offering something

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Speaker 1: better than what Obama got with the Iran nuclear deal. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: the point is they were like, no, we're going to war.

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Speaker 1: And you just have to wonder how much like Kushner

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Speaker 1: is really tight with Netanyahu is like his family's close

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Speaker 1: with him. And Netanyahu really wanted more and continues to

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Speaker 1: want more. And I just think it's pretty interesting that

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Speaker 1: we're in this moment. And Kushner was really the wrong

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Speaker 1: person to negotiate this peace treaty.

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Speaker 2: Seems that way. So today really felt like the real

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Speaker 2: ramp up of who will win the ai war of

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Speaker 2: the midterm elections of 2026 when republicans versus democrats we

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Speaker 2: saw minority leader hakeem jeffries actually come out against a

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Speaker 2: lot of ai stuff today and then as well we

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Speaker 2: saw a lot of urging for democrats to get on

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Speaker 2: the right side of this after some polling showed that

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Speaker 2: they barely have an advantage on this and trump as

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Speaker 2: he does to weigh down this party in the midterms

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Speaker 2: because nah ai is awesome i love it i'm just

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Speaker 2: going to keep reposting it on Truth. And I'm going

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Speaker 2: to even make up conspiracy theories to keep it going.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So you listen to this podcast, you know that we've

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Speaker 1: been saying for a long time that data centers are

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Speaker 1: absolutely an 80-20 issue, that voters hate them, that voters

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Speaker 1: do not want them near their houses, that voters are

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Speaker 1: furious about data centers. And like, this is just such

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Speaker 1: a easy, easy, easy win for Democrats and Trump is

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Speaker 1: like pro data center. And like the other thing is

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Speaker 1: that people want them regulated. They're really scary. And like

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Speaker 1: even if you look online, like the only people who

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Speaker 1: want this unfettered data center's are billionaires who invest in

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Speaker 1: data centers like Mr. Wonderful and David Sachs and people

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Speaker 1: like that. They want data centers. Everyone else wants this

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Speaker 1: all to be done. This is not good for anyone.

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Speaker 1: No one wants this. It's just like such a dumb

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Speaker 1: moment in American life. And Trump is doubling down. It's funny,

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Speaker 1: like at every point, Donald Trump, has, it seems like,

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Speaker 1: just done the wrong political thing, you know, except for

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Speaker 1: offering the $ 5, 000. Otherwise, his political instincts are just cucked.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So we don't often see half the country sue over something,

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Speaker 2: but 22 states and the District of Columbia are are

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Speaker 2: filing lawsuits against the Trump administration to prevent the Department

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Speaker 2: of Homeland Security from changing the public charge rule.

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Speaker 1: You know, what's so interesting about this moment is that

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Speaker 1: we really do see these people stepping up. Like, we

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Speaker 1: see the AGs, and it's funny because, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: when Trump won, the Democratic AGs, you and I can

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Speaker 1: attest this, we'd been talking to Democratic AGs, and so

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Speaker 1: we knew that they had these plans, right? Like, Raul Torres...

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Speaker 1: And like, you know, in New Mexico was one of

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Speaker 1: the first people to go after the Zorro rants, try

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Speaker 1: to open the investigation there. You know, Rob Bonta has

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Speaker 1: been leading the way on this. And so this is

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Speaker 1: like what happens when you have Democratic AGs is that

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Speaker 1: they get together and they sue this administration. And so

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Speaker 1: this is very cool to watch them say they're going

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Speaker 1: to do stuff and actually do it. And this is

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Speaker 1: like federalism in action in a lot of ways, which

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Speaker 1: is is really good too. But basically they are threatening

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Speaker 1: this lawsuit to block the Trump administration's public change rule

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Speaker 1: and the public change rule will make it so that

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Speaker 1: basically immigration officers could use Medicaid and SNAP. So like

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Speaker 1: if you're applying and you have SNAP, it could make

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Speaker 1: it so you can't get a green card. And the

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Speaker 1: idea is just to punish people. And it's so very,

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Speaker 1: very the kind of thing that we see from Stephen Miller.

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Speaker 1: Evan McMorris Santoro is a reporter at The Washington Sun. Welcome.

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Speaker 4: Welcome.

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Speaker 3: Hey, Molly, how are you?

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Speaker 1: I am in the great city of Chicago. So let

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Speaker 1: us talk. about last night. I feel like it's a

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Speaker 1: meatloaf song, right? I will do anything for Trump, but

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Speaker 1: the Roberts court won't do that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's true.

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Speaker 5: Look, this ruling last night, which basically smacked down the

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Speaker 5: administration's attempt to have a federal takeover of mail-in voting, right?

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Speaker 3: To have all these rules about how ballots work, how

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Speaker 3: ballots are handled.

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Speaker 1: Implemented by the post office, which is really ready for that. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: And in a very short period of time, I mean,

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Speaker 5: I did an interview with someone who's like very senior

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Speaker 5: in the world of election management, not that long ago.

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Speaker 5: And they talked about how little time, you know, we're

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Speaker 5: in September, there's early voting starts in some states in

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Speaker 5: like next week or something.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. And the idea was that there's all this change

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Speaker 3: is going to happen before then.

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Speaker 5: Look, this is, you know, on the one hand, a

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Speaker 5: quest that this president has had sort of since 2016. really,

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Speaker 5: to sort of tamp down on mail-in balloting, thinking he

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Speaker 5: thinks it's a bad idea, he thinks that it's rigged,

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Speaker 5: he thinks it's not safe, he thinks it's a way

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Speaker 5: that people can steal elections from him. But also, it's

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Speaker 5: a side of, as you mentioned, the Supreme Court that

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Speaker 5: has really given him pretty broad powers, executive powers.

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Speaker 3: In so many different areas, right? Firing people that the Congress.

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Speaker 5: says that he needs to put into jobs and messing

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Speaker 5: with sort of congressionally authorized funding and.

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Speaker 3: All sorts of things like that. But when it came

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Speaker 3: to this, the idea of changing.

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Speaker 5: An election, how it works 50 days out, the Supreme

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Speaker 5: Court said no. The ramifications are quite large for Trump

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Speaker 5: because I do think that from the MAGA perspective, if

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Speaker 5: you spoke to Republicans, a lot of them said that

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Speaker 5: things like redistricting and some of these restrictions on voting

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Speaker 5: were part of their plan to change history here and

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Speaker 5: have a good midterm for the party in power.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Redistricting, they've gotten mostly what they wanted from that. But

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Speaker 5: when it comes to this part of it, appears to

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Speaker 5: be gone for the moment.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny. It could all end up messing him up, right?

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Speaker 1: Like redistricting could dummy me, right? Because seats that went

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Speaker 1: from R plus 10 or R plus 25 will now

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Speaker 1: be R plus four or R plus five. And in

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Speaker 1: the wrong environment, that's a dummy mander, right?

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 5: I mean, that's why the voting thing, this voting ruling

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Speaker 5: is so important, because in order for this.

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Speaker 3: Whole thing to work, right?

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Speaker 5: You want to gerrymander the districts and then also prevent

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Speaker 5: a wave election big enough to wash over those barriers.

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Speaker 3: That you put up with your gerrymander, right?

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Speaker 5: A pinker district doesn't just become blue because so many

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Speaker 5: people vote. This is a midterm election. People who are

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Speaker 5: most likely to vote are those who are the most

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Speaker 5: angry at the.

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Speaker 3: President if you make it harder for them to vote.

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Speaker 3: It makes it easier for you to make things work.

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Speaker 5: That's not happening now, or at least it doesn't seem

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Speaker 5: to be happening in this sense. Now, I will say

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Speaker 5: I was on TV the other day with you and

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Speaker 5: I's good friend, Stephanie Rule, and we were talking about

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Speaker 5: this and the elections across America are now full of

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Speaker 5: officials who who believe in election conspiracies. They believe 2020

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Speaker 5: was rigged. They believe all this stuff. They have a

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Speaker 5: great deal of power. One of the things that Trump

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Speaker 5: talks about, the elections are locally controlled. They have a

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Speaker 5: great deal of power. So still, even with this ruling,

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Speaker 5: which I think is a really big sigh of relief

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Speaker 5: to folks who do GEO TV and want to push

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Speaker 5: people out to vote, then they can say, okay, maybe

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Speaker 5: you can cast a mail-in ballot. The fact is you're

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Speaker 5: still in this defensive driving election, which is that if

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Speaker 5: you are a voter- There are a lot of people

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Speaker 5: around you who are not telling you, hey, we want

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Speaker 5: to make it easy for you to vote.

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Speaker 3: We want to make you feel like this.

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Speaker 5: Is a safe democracy. Come out here and cast your ballot. No,

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Speaker 5: they're saying, hey, make sure you don't smudge the circle.

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Speaker 5: Make sure you put your stamp in the right place.

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Speaker 5: It is really up to voters in a way that's

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Speaker 5: really not happened before to decide on their own what

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Speaker 5: is the safest way to pass a ballot or what

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Speaker 5: is the safest way to cast your ballot. This is

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Speaker 5: a huge setback Trump But he still has laid a

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Speaker 5: lot of.

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Speaker 3: Groundwork across the country for people who believe that elections

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Speaker 3: are rigged.

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Speaker 1: Right. I think that's a really, really important point, which

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Speaker 1: is we all breathe a sigh of relief. But we

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Speaker 1: also need to take this very seriously, how we vote.

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Speaker 1: And yeah.

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Speaker 5: It's also worth noting and remembering kind of what a

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Speaker 5: strange political idea this is, because one of the things

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Speaker 5: that made Trump return to power was really a quite

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Speaker 5: amazing election machine, you know, built by people like Charlie

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Speaker 5: Kirk that helped him out, that really turned out these

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Speaker 5: low propensity voters and voters that maybe were not, you know,

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Speaker 5: maybe a little Trump curious, but don't usually vote. That's

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Speaker 5: what they call those people. They had a really strong effort.

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Speaker 3: To do that.

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Speaker 5: And one of the ways that you do this, I mean,

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Speaker 5: the way that GOTV works, is first you have your

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Speaker 5: mail-in universe. You go to your people that you can

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Speaker 5: get to get mail-in ballots.

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Speaker 3: You say, go get your ballot. Get your ballot in

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Speaker 3: the mail. Send it off.

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Speaker 5: Tell us that you sent it off. Then they can

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Speaker 5: write you off their list. We don't have to bother

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Speaker 5: trying to pull you out anymore.

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Speaker 3: You've already voted. Then we move to early voters. Then

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Speaker 3: we move to day of voters, right? This is a

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Speaker 3: huge part of that puzzle. It makes it easy to vote.

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Speaker 5: And Trump actually relied on some of that stuff to

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Speaker 5: help secure what was at that time a surprising and

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Speaker 5: polling-wise kind of an upset win, right?

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Speaker 3: I mean, we talked about that election.

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Speaker 5: Now it's sort of like a foregone conclusion. He barely won,

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Speaker 5: and he won thanks to, I think, a lot of

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Speaker 5: ground-level efforts.

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Speaker 3: And that stuff, mail-in ballots, part of that.

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Speaker 1: Right. I mean, I do want to add one thing,

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Speaker 1: which is he– and this, I think, is important when

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Speaker 1: we look at the polls right now. Like Beto O'Rourke

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Speaker 1: never was polling ahead of Ted Cruz, ever. There was

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Speaker 1: no poll. I mean, it was close, but there was

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Speaker 1: never a poll of him. Like the Telerico polls, there's

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Speaker 1: no precedent for. There was never, or at least in

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Speaker 1: the last couple of elections, we have not had a

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Speaker 1: Democrat four points ahead, five points ahead in Texas. Like

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Speaker 1: that just has not happened, three points ahead. And so

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Speaker 1: when we look and when we look at 24, Harris

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Speaker 1: was never had like there were no. We thought it

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Speaker 1: was better because of what the polls were there. Like

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Speaker 1: the idea was. But there were people, a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: And I wasn't one of them because I am an

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Speaker 1: idiot and an optimist in a terrible and very annoying way.

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Speaker 1: But there were a lot. It's true. My heart breaks.

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Speaker 3: I don't think you're an idiot. I think everybody thought

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Speaker 3: the same thing that you thought.

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Speaker 1: But there were people who were kamikaze, who really felt

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Speaker 1: that we're doing this to save those Senate seats. Because

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Speaker 1: the polling... on Biden was so bad that it meant

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Speaker 1: he was like, we were going to see that, that

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Speaker 1: Arizona seat was going to go the, the, uh, you

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Speaker 1: could have even seen the Minnesota seat go. You saw

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Speaker 1: it like he was going to lose me. The Democrat

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Speaker 1: was going to lose in Michigan. Like the idea was

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Speaker 1: that Wisconsin.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Right. That she was going to just stem the bleeding.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 5: I mean, look, I mean, but that I mean, and

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Speaker 5: that is another thing that relied on organizing, you know,

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Speaker 5: just to get back to that point, you know, the

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Speaker 5: states where they actually spent money and work the hardest.

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Speaker 5: They did the best in that. That's the Democrats. I mean,

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Speaker 5: that's organizing that those efforts. And they were up against

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Speaker 5: a very sophisticated, at least as the Democrats told me,

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Speaker 5: that they were running up against a very sophisticated organizing

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Speaker 5: operation from Republicans that we don't usually see. This cycle,

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Speaker 5: we have not heard them talk about a sophisticated turnout operation.

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Speaker 3: We have not heard them talk about a.

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Speaker 5: Sophisticated field operation. We've heard them talk about let's make

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Speaker 5: mail-in balloting illegal and.

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Speaker 3: Let's redraw district lines.

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Speaker 5: And one of the things, as you mentioned at the

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Speaker 5: top of this whole conversation about the size of the

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Speaker 5: wave and where it might wash over and what might

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Speaker 5: happen with red districts, it's very early. We don't know

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Speaker 5: what's going to happen with this in the end. But

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Speaker 5: there is a thing that politics does at some point

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Speaker 5: come into play. You can't actually draw yourself out of

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Speaker 5: being in electoral trouble nationwide. You can't actually protect all

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Speaker 5: your Senate seats. This is not possible to actually do this.

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Speaker 5: It's something you actually have to do some politics. And

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Speaker 5: what we have seen from this White House this entire

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Speaker 5: summer is kind of just a seeming aversion to doing politics.

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Speaker 3: In any way, right?

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Speaker 5: I mean, the latest sort of think toward politics that

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Speaker 5: we have seen is the president offering this $ 5, 000 check,

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Speaker 5: which is definitely never going to happen.

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Speaker 1: Right, ever.

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Speaker 3: It's kind of the first thing he's done.

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Speaker 5: So that's what makes the Supreme Court ruling so important

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Speaker 5: is that this is really like, I think, a linchpin

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Speaker 5: of what they're midterm strategy was. Does it mean that

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Speaker 5: Democrats are going to sweep and win everything?

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Speaker 3: No, it doesn't. Democrats still have to run and win.

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Speaker 5: But it does mean that the Republicans have a plan,

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Speaker 5: and that plan is kind of looking a little bit

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Speaker 5: wonky and janky today.

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Speaker 1: I think of it like the nuclear clock. It went

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Speaker 1: to midnight, you know the nuclear clock?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the doomsday clock.

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Speaker 1: Doomsday clock, right.

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Speaker 3: Claude is in charge of that now. It's going to

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Speaker 3: be just fine. We're all going to be great. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But the doomsday clock was at 12. And now it's

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Speaker 1: back at 1135.

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Speaker 3: You know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Like, if they had done this, it would have been cataclysmic.

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Speaker 1: Let's just be honest. This is not like a normal

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Speaker 1: ruling where it's like, well, it basically would have fucked

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Speaker 1: a third of all of our votes. And It would

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Speaker 1: have like some votes might have gone through, but a

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Speaker 1: lot would have been fucked up. And the BS would

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Speaker 1: have not they weren't able to handle it. So what

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Speaker 1: even would happen? And like certain states would it would

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Speaker 1: have been a constitutional crisis to end all constitutional crises.

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Speaker 1: Which is why I think it's worth just having a

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Speaker 1: minute to think about how cooked Thomas and Alito are.

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Speaker 1: Because Thomas and Alito were like, OK, here's something. It

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Speaker 1: can't work, right? The UPS is not set up for this.

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Speaker 1: We are 50 days from an election. It's like saying

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Speaker 1: it is an insane thing to do. It is an

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Speaker 1: insane thing to try. And the fact that Alito and

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Speaker 1: Thomas were like, our man wants it.

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Speaker 6: Let's do it.

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Speaker 1: And then Justice Gangstand was like, I'm just going to

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Speaker 1: write something else over here, you know, because I might

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Speaker 1: want to have a museum built for me and my

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Speaker 1: mother's house. I mean, I'm just saying, like, this court

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Speaker 1: is so cooked. That, you know, you have a third

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Speaker 1: of them being like, what is this democracy thing anyway?

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Speaker 5: Look, this conservative moment, this conservative movement right now is

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Speaker 5: in such a strange. state i i don't know much

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Speaker 5: about i'm not a huge court like i'm not i

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Speaker 5: mean i read everything they put out but i'm not

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Speaker 5: like a huge court expert right so i can't tell

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Speaker 5: you exactly what's on the brains of these guys but

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Speaker 5: i can tell you that you look at these are

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Speaker 5: conservative guys and you see all across the country in

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Speaker 5: these elections that we're following all these senate elections and

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Speaker 5: house elections you are seeing this thing where there are

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Speaker 5: some members who some conservatives who are like yes trump

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Speaker 5: whatever he got us here i'll follow him to the

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Speaker 5: end of the earth i'll take a you know jump

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Speaker 5: on whatever great like like you know this idea that

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Speaker 5: we are in some kind of Crisis that, like, maybe

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Speaker 5: the rules need to be bent or broken.

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 3: Then you see some conservatives who are like, well.

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Speaker 5: I don't know about that, and they get a little

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Speaker 5: nervous about that, but they still often find themselves in

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Speaker 5: a difficult spot because they don't want to cross the

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Speaker 5: president too much. They're too afraid of the president.

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Speaker 3: So I don't.

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Speaker 5: Know how exactly that completely equates, but I will say

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Speaker 5: that there are, if we want to use those guys

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Speaker 5: as archetypes, there are sort of Alito Thomases all over

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Speaker 5: the electoral map, and there are sort of Kavanaughs all

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Speaker 5: over the electoral map, and it's unclear at this point

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Speaker 5: what either of them, if either of them have like,

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Speaker 5: like literally have any connections to what the American people

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Speaker 5: actually want anymore.

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Speaker 3: It's very confusing as to.

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Speaker 5: What that is, what happened, but it is a key

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Speaker 5: component to what is going on in Washington right now.

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Speaker 5: If you look at, for example, just brought it up,

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Speaker 5: you know, this cloth and AI is going to kill

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Speaker 5: us all, et cetera. You have seen members of Congress.

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Speaker 5: You have some Republicans who are like, yeah, I guess

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Speaker 5: when the company says this could kill us all, then

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Speaker 5: we should do something about that.

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Speaker 3: And then others say, well, what does Trump say? And

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Speaker 3: Trump says, don't do anything. Okay, great. I'm good with that.

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Speaker 3: And this is a now it's now a divided movement

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Speaker 3: over that, because I think a lot of them really do.

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Speaker 5: Think that Trump has some sort of special magic and

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Speaker 5: you need to let him do what do his thing.

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Speaker 3: And that's how. things move forward. The question is, after

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Speaker 3: the midterms, will anybody feel that way? And I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It's a real question about this sort of allegiance to

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Speaker 1: Trump and where it ends, because like diesel is as

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Speaker 1: expensive as it has ever been. OK, diesel is right.

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Speaker 1: And diesel is heating oil. And it's you know, it's

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Speaker 1: not just.

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Speaker 3: Trucks everything every every right and.

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Speaker 1: Airplanes and this and that so i mean i do

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Speaker 1: think it is a real this is a real problem

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Speaker 1: and it'll be really interesting to see when if i

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Speaker 1: mean maybe republicans never break i think i worry with

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Speaker 1: the ai stuff like you know, we had David Sachs

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Speaker 1: out there. We had, you know, being like, AI is great.

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Speaker 1: Don't worry, this will be fine. They want regulatory capture.

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Speaker 1: I mean, look, maybe they, like, this is a good

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Speaker 1: situation because there's, they're like, it's funny because there was

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Speaker 1: this United States Senator who explained this to me, a Democrat.

436
00:21:28,550 --> 00:21:31,419
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, that can't be right. And

437
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,850
Speaker 1: he was like, yes. He was like, I said, why

438
00:21:33,910 --> 00:21:38,750
Speaker 1: haven't you regulated any technology ever? Like from Facebook on.

439
00:21:38,890 --> 00:21:42,710
Speaker 1: And he said, Two reasons. He says, one, because they're stupid.

440
00:21:43,109 --> 00:21:45,210
Speaker 1: And two, right, because people don't understand what it does.

441
00:21:45,609 --> 00:21:49,030
Speaker 1: And then the other, and he was talking about his colleagues.

442
00:21:49,390 --> 00:21:52,830
Speaker 1: And then the other, he said, is that some of

443
00:21:52,850 --> 00:21:56,570
Speaker 1: these people are low-key corrupt. And I'm thinking about the

444
00:21:56,630 --> 00:22:00,530
Speaker 1: people who have children, who work for OpenAI, you know

445
00:22:00,550 --> 00:22:02,229
Speaker 1: who that is, Chuck Schumer.

446
00:22:02,330 --> 00:22:03,189
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes.

447
00:22:03,210 --> 00:22:06,210
Speaker 1: Just to make it clear. And all of the other

448
00:22:06,390 --> 00:22:11,460
Speaker 1: people who have... you know, who are a little bit

449
00:22:11,500 --> 00:22:12,639
Speaker 1: in the tank, right?

450
00:22:13,060 --> 00:22:15,550
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look, this is a whipsaw moment.

451
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:21,700
Speaker 5: For the American political machine, which is that politicians hear

452
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,230
Speaker 5: new company, new jobs, and they say, good, I like that.

453
00:22:25,350 --> 00:22:26,770
Speaker 3: And then when somebody says, wait, we don't like that,

454
00:22:26,790 --> 00:22:29,570
Speaker 3: they go, I'm sorry, what?

455
00:22:29,630 --> 00:22:31,889
Speaker 5: And all these AI companies have spent a ton of

456
00:22:31,910 --> 00:22:35,590
Speaker 5: money at the local level, the national level, state level,

457
00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:38,109
Speaker 5: and they have lobbyists, big name people all over the

458
00:22:38,150 --> 00:22:41,360
Speaker 5: place with them. This is a, you know, it's really

459
00:22:41,380 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 5: hard and slow to turn the ship of state.

460
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,210
Speaker 3: And right now, this state was steaming towards... let AI

461
00:22:49,250 --> 00:22:50,090
Speaker 3: do whatever it wants.

462
00:22:50,290 --> 00:22:53,510
Speaker 5: And now the idea that voters have said absolutely not

463
00:22:53,630 --> 00:22:56,990
Speaker 5: from the level of data center in my neighborhood all

464
00:22:57,010 --> 00:22:59,770
Speaker 5: the way up to maybe regulating it, slowing it down

465
00:22:59,830 --> 00:23:02,950
Speaker 5: so it can't, I guess, create whatever weapon, whatever it's

466
00:23:02,970 --> 00:23:03,710
Speaker 5: going to do, if.

467
00:23:04,260 --> 00:23:04,820
Speaker 3: That's true or not.

468
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,899
Speaker 5: But I'm saying like this, what you are witnessing, and

469
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:09,260
Speaker 5: you're absolutely right, is that, you know, we saw it

470
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,060
Speaker 5: through the internet, we saw it with social media, that

471
00:23:11,100 --> 00:23:13,540
Speaker 5: like it doesn't matter sort of what party has been

472
00:23:13,580 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 5: in power during all of this.

473
00:23:15,140 --> 00:23:15,409
Speaker 6: It is.

474
00:23:16,230 --> 00:23:19,429
Speaker 5: in the sort of their mindset that like, okay, jump

475
00:23:19,570 --> 00:23:23,190
Speaker 5: on the big growing company, jump on the bandwagon, throw

476
00:23:23,270 --> 00:23:26,449
Speaker 5: more coal in the boiler, you know, let's get this

477
00:23:26,490 --> 00:23:29,590
Speaker 5: thing going as fast as possible. And then all of

478
00:23:29,650 --> 00:23:32,550
Speaker 5: a sudden, in the case of social media, 20 years later, oh,

479
00:23:32,650 --> 00:23:35,190
Speaker 5: actually maybe kids shouldn't get to look at this so much.

480
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,660
Speaker 3: Maybe we shouldn't have this work like this.

481
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,379
Speaker 5: And in the case of AI, it's like much faster,

482
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 5: but we are seeing that same thing, which is that

483
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,060
Speaker 5: when these guys were staffing up around Washington, It's not

484
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 5: surprising the name that they got, because everybody kind of

485
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 5: agreed that this was sort of a good thing, except

486
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,780
Speaker 5: for a few, like Bernie Sanders and a few others.

487
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,010
Speaker 3: And now people are saying, oh, wait, just kidding. And

488
00:23:57,030 --> 00:23:58,379
Speaker 3: they're trying to backpedal away from it.

489
00:23:58,490 --> 00:24:00,970
Speaker 5: And that's one of those things that always looks really

490
00:24:01,010 --> 00:24:03,310
Speaker 5: embarrassing when it happens, because this is one of those

491
00:24:03,350 --> 00:24:06,510
Speaker 5: moments where there was a consensus that this was largely

492
00:24:06,550 --> 00:24:10,790
Speaker 5: probably a good idea. And how that consensus changes moving forward,

493
00:24:10,810 --> 00:24:11,610
Speaker 5: we're not totally sure.

494
00:24:11,970 --> 00:24:14,129
Speaker 3: But it is in the process of changing in some way.

495
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,710
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, the data centers are a really easy win

496
00:24:17,790 --> 00:24:21,919
Speaker 1: for Dems, right? People don't want them. They are polluting.

497
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 1: You can't build them. Sorry. You want to build them somewhere?

498
00:24:26,820 --> 00:24:29,459
Speaker 1: You want to build a clean air plant? Great. You

499
00:24:29,500 --> 00:24:31,300
Speaker 1: want to do a wind farm off the ocean?

500
00:24:31,380 --> 00:24:31,900
Speaker 3: Fabulous.

501
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 1: You want to put solar panels somewhere? Great. You want

502
00:24:34,980 --> 00:24:38,830
Speaker 1: to fucking build, you know, these little gas jets?

503
00:24:38,850 --> 00:24:39,770
Speaker 3: Well, it seems obvious.

504
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,010
Speaker 5: Yeah, it seems obvious now, Molly, but like just a

505
00:24:42,050 --> 00:24:46,890
Speaker 5: couple months ago, it was these Luddite lefties want to

506
00:24:46,950 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 5: have us all take, you know, I guess like those

507
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:52,580
Speaker 5: old timey bikes with the big wheels in the front

508
00:24:52,740 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 5: around everywhere.

509
00:24:53,500 --> 00:24:56,290
Speaker 3: And there'll be no computers. Yeah.

510
00:24:56,310 --> 00:24:58,010
Speaker 5: There'll be no computers. We didn't, you know, they want

511
00:24:58,030 --> 00:25:01,469
Speaker 5: to fly around by blimp or whatever. And we, and, and, and,

512
00:25:01,630 --> 00:25:04,050
Speaker 5: and we're the tech Democrats. We're the, we're the, we're

513
00:25:04,090 --> 00:25:06,410
Speaker 5: the ones who want to, you know what I mean?

514
00:25:06,430 --> 00:25:10,889
Speaker 5: You know, exactly. Like, you know, embracing crypto, things like that.

515
00:25:11,350 --> 00:25:12,929
Speaker 5: This is a thing that like the party is not

516
00:25:12,990 --> 00:25:18,180
Speaker 5: unifying around that. It was not unified around before. It's slow,

517
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 5: but it's happening.

518
00:25:19,380 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 1: But if you had read a book or a newspaper,

519
00:25:22,940 --> 00:25:27,810
Speaker 1: you would know that crypto is a scam, right? NFTs,

520
00:25:28,130 --> 00:25:32,970
Speaker 1: like crypto, scam. Meme coins, scam, right? Like, I mean,

521
00:25:33,310 --> 00:25:36,109
Speaker 1: these things are fucking scam, right? Like, what's not a scam?

522
00:25:36,190 --> 00:25:39,540
Speaker 1: The dollar, not a scam. Now, my husband, who is

523
00:25:39,580 --> 00:25:44,420
Speaker 1: a VC, will say, right, so far. So I'll say, well,

524
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,710
Speaker 1: so crypto is just a scam, right? And he'll be like, well,

525
00:25:47,730 --> 00:25:51,830
Speaker 1: was the dollar a scam? And I'm like, but the dollar...

526
00:25:52,190 --> 00:25:54,650
Speaker 1: and crypto are not the same. And so I say

527
00:25:54,670 --> 00:25:56,930
Speaker 1: to you, I just want, let's go for two more

528
00:25:56,990 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 1: seconds here.

529
00:25:57,619 --> 00:26:02,120
Speaker 5: Don't ask a journalist about this for responsibility, okay?

530
00:26:02,140 --> 00:26:04,660
Speaker 3: That's not like our thing. I don't know anything about

531
00:26:04,700 --> 00:26:07,130
Speaker 3: dollars or crypto. I don't know anything about any of those.

532
00:26:07,330 --> 00:26:10,109
Speaker 1: But when we look just when we look at this

533
00:26:10,230 --> 00:26:13,310
Speaker 1: landscape for a minute and I was I've been my

534
00:26:13,430 --> 00:26:16,550
Speaker 1: new pet project. I do crazy stuff during this podcast

535
00:26:16,570 --> 00:26:19,790
Speaker 1: because Jesse's very nice to me. I've been interviewing all

536
00:26:19,830 --> 00:26:22,490
Speaker 1: of the members of the people who are running for

537
00:26:22,530 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: Congress in the state of Texas. So that's been my thing.

538
00:26:26,450 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 1: And so we had Bobby Polito and we're having this.

539
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,399
Speaker 1: We had this other guy, Garcia, and we're having all

540
00:26:32,420 --> 00:26:35,120
Speaker 1: these other guys. And one of the things they say

541
00:26:35,140 --> 00:26:41,429
Speaker 1: is that. Voters are super pissed about what's happening on

542
00:26:41,450 --> 00:26:44,570
Speaker 1: the ground. And this is Texas, right? So it's not

543
00:26:44,609 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 1: a purple state. It's really a red state. And so

544
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,620
Speaker 1: I wonder, like, when you're out there and you're talking

545
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: to a lot of people, are you seeing that too?

546
00:26:54,540 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 3: Yes.

547
00:26:55,300 --> 00:26:57,780
Speaker 1: You have a minute and a half before we're done.

548
00:26:57,820 --> 00:26:58,060
Speaker 3: Voter anger.

549
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:03,659
Speaker 5: Voter anger has been the engine of this entire electoral cycle.

550
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:04,880
Speaker 3: I mean, it really is.

551
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,330
Speaker 5: Ever since I think that long government shutdown the Democrats

552
00:27:09,369 --> 00:27:11,990
Speaker 5: did that like sort of ended with nothing, the Democrats

553
00:27:12,010 --> 00:27:14,510
Speaker 5: have been really upset with each other about that. And

554
00:27:14,530 --> 00:27:16,790
Speaker 5: then on the other hand, a lot of voters, you know,

555
00:27:16,850 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 5: turned out once again. Because Trump said, I'm different. I'm

556
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,980
Speaker 5: going to do something different. And now what they have

557
00:27:23,020 --> 00:27:26,300
Speaker 5: is they have another sort of feckless second term president

558
00:27:26,500 --> 00:27:29,900
Speaker 5: who's old and isn't that plugged in and isn't giving them.

559
00:27:29,859 --> 00:27:33,550
Speaker 3: What they wanted. And people are really, really upset about that.

560
00:27:33,710 --> 00:27:35,970
Speaker 5: And this is a thing where you see both sides,

561
00:27:36,109 --> 00:27:39,430
Speaker 5: both parties, candidates from both parties, you will notice for

562
00:27:39,470 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 5: the most part. are not kind of running around with

563
00:27:42,020 --> 00:27:44,830
Speaker 5: their partisan identity on them anymore because of that anger.

564
00:27:44,910 --> 00:27:46,550
Speaker 5: It's really the fuel of everything. This is a great

565
00:27:46,570 --> 00:27:48,210
Speaker 5: idea to talk to everybody in Texas. It's going to

566
00:27:48,230 --> 00:27:49,210
Speaker 5: be an interesting state to watch.

567
00:27:49,770 --> 00:27:52,429
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very interesting to talk to these members of

568
00:27:52,670 --> 00:27:57,910
Speaker 1: these these candidates because what they're not Senate candidates, they're

569
00:27:57,950 --> 00:28:01,170
Speaker 1: like little House candidates. So they are literally in their

570
00:28:01,270 --> 00:28:04,790
Speaker 1: little district, which sometimes is miles and miles, but isn't so,

571
00:28:04,930 --> 00:28:06,889
Speaker 1: you know, is less than a million people or whatever

572
00:28:06,910 --> 00:28:10,250
Speaker 1: the numbers are. And so they have they're talking to

573
00:28:10,290 --> 00:28:13,460
Speaker 1: people every day and the problems are. in the Rio

574
00:28:13,510 --> 00:28:17,270
Speaker 1: Grande Valley are very, you know, they're not the same

575
00:28:17,369 --> 00:28:21,230
Speaker 1: problems in Chicago. They're not the same problems in New York,

576
00:28:21,710 --> 00:28:25,090
Speaker 1: but they don't, but they rhyme. You know what I mean? Like,

577
00:28:25,109 --> 00:28:28,470
Speaker 1: they're not the same, but they're analogous.

578
00:28:28,970 --> 00:28:29,649
Speaker 3: I mean, I will say this.

579
00:28:29,710 --> 00:28:31,530
Speaker 5: I mean, a good shorthand is, you know, Trump is

580
00:28:31,570 --> 00:28:33,830
Speaker 5: a president who said, I alone can fix it. People

581
00:28:33,869 --> 00:28:35,090
Speaker 5: look around, a lot of stuff is not fixed.

582
00:28:35,750 --> 00:28:35,950
Speaker 1: Yeah.

583
00:28:35,970 --> 00:28:37,649
Speaker 3: Not in a great position to be in at a

584
00:28:37,690 --> 00:28:38,290
Speaker 3: midterm election.

585
00:28:38,790 --> 00:28:41,990
Speaker 1: Evan, this was really smart. And also, more importantly, it

586
00:28:42,030 --> 00:28:47,100
Speaker 1: made me remember why it's so interesting what we do.

587
00:28:48,100 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: And so I appreciate that.

588
00:28:50,340 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 3: I'm going to go bet on crypto now.

589
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:52,060
Speaker 2: Thank you, Molly.

590
00:28:52,380 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: I'm buying some NFTs now. Adam Jentleson is the president

591
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: of the Searchlight Institute and the author of Supermajority, How

592
00:29:01,460 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: Democrats Can Build Lasting Power. Welcome, welcome, Adam.

593
00:29:05,180 --> 00:29:06,270
Speaker 6: It's great to be here, Molly.

594
00:29:06,290 --> 00:29:06,830
Speaker 2: Good to see you again.

595
00:29:07,010 --> 00:29:09,930
Speaker 1: Good to see you. So you are here to talk

596
00:29:10,090 --> 00:29:15,070
Speaker 1: about a book called Supermajority. So basically how Democrats can

597
00:29:15,150 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: win midterms, etc. So supermajority. Yes. Give us your top

598
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:20,540
Speaker 1: line here.

599
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:22,660
Speaker 6: This book is for anybody who is sick of this

600
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,300
Speaker 6: era of narrow polarization, where every single election comes down

601
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 6: to a coin flip against fascists, basically, like white knuckling

602
00:29:30,020 --> 00:29:32,660
Speaker 6: it to election night. Can we get to 270? Are

603
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,630
Speaker 6: we going to have control of the House or set

604
00:29:34,650 --> 00:29:37,590
Speaker 6: up by one seat? My thesis is that it is

605
00:29:37,670 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 6: possible to break out of this era of narrow polarization

606
00:29:41,060 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 6: and win power on a scale we haven't seen in

607
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 6: a generation. You know, the natural order of things in

608
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,700
Speaker 6: American politics is for one side or the other to

609
00:29:48,770 --> 00:29:51,930
Speaker 6: be dominant. And these eras of narrowly divided power are

610
00:29:52,050 --> 00:29:54,550
Speaker 6: actually an aberration. I believe it is going to resolve

611
00:29:54,710 --> 00:29:57,210
Speaker 6: to dominance for one side or the other within the

612
00:29:57,250 --> 00:29:59,770
Speaker 6: next few years. My argument is that Democrats need to

613
00:29:59,850 --> 00:30:02,210
Speaker 6: seize this moment and do the things they need to

614
00:30:02,250 --> 00:30:05,390
Speaker 6: do to be the ones for whom this resolves into dominance.

615
00:30:05,430 --> 00:30:07,110
Speaker 6: And so the idea of the book is, you know,

616
00:30:07,230 --> 00:30:09,290
Speaker 6: this isn't just about winning the next election. This is

617
00:30:09,330 --> 00:30:12,070
Speaker 6: about dominating the next generation. And I think that is

618
00:30:12,170 --> 00:30:14,670
Speaker 6: possible for us to do. And we should reject this

619
00:30:14,730 --> 00:30:17,770
Speaker 6: idea that we are prisoners of this era of narrow polarization,

620
00:30:17,810 --> 00:30:19,370
Speaker 6: because if we don't do it, Republicans won't.

621
00:30:19,430 --> 00:30:23,380
Speaker 1: So that seems hard to argue with that. So how

622
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: do you do that? What are the ways in which

623
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: you do that that might be controversial?

624
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,190
Speaker 6: Well, you know, this idea runs into conflict with the

625
00:30:32,250 --> 00:30:34,650
Speaker 6: way that our side has sort of evolved over the

626
00:30:34,710 --> 00:30:38,330
Speaker 6: last 10 years, which is a trend not towards big

627
00:30:38,410 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 6: tent populism, which is what I argue for in the book.

628
00:30:40,900 --> 00:30:44,380
Speaker 6: But rather towards a sort of an era defined by

629
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,780
Speaker 6: purity tests and by ideological rigidity where we've, you know,

630
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,500
Speaker 6: instead of inviting a lot of people into our coalition

631
00:30:51,540 --> 00:30:54,020
Speaker 6: and saying, you know, how can we win bigger, better,

632
00:30:54,180 --> 00:30:56,940
Speaker 6: more in more places? We've said, you know, we are

633
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,470
Speaker 6: going to impose a series of very rigid... litmus tests

634
00:31:00,810 --> 00:31:03,110
Speaker 6: on our candidates and elected leaders. And if they don't

635
00:31:03,250 --> 00:31:05,690
Speaker 6: pass all of those tests, you know, we are going

636
00:31:05,730 --> 00:31:07,830
Speaker 6: to condemn them and reject them. And what that's led

637
00:31:07,870 --> 00:31:09,130
Speaker 6: us to do. And look, I think there are good

638
00:31:09,170 --> 00:31:10,510
Speaker 6: intentions behind a lot of that stuff.

639
00:31:10,670 --> 00:31:11,590
Speaker 1: Give us an example.

640
00:31:11,820 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 6: I mean, take your pick, you know, I mean, but

641
00:31:13,140 --> 00:31:16,380
Speaker 6: if you look at the 2020 primary, right, these litmus tests,

642
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 6: the Democratic primary for president, you had litmus tests, you know,

643
00:31:19,540 --> 00:31:21,860
Speaker 6: not just like, do you believe that climate change is

644
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 6: real and want to, you know, stop it? But, you know,

645
00:31:24,500 --> 00:31:27,550
Speaker 6: are you deeply committed to keeping all fossil fuels in

646
00:31:27,590 --> 00:31:30,310
Speaker 6: the ground and rejecting the idea that they can be

647
00:31:30,370 --> 00:31:32,610
Speaker 6: part of a transition towards a clean energy future. You know,

648
00:31:32,810 --> 00:31:35,890
Speaker 6: not are you for a fair immigration system with reasonable

649
00:31:35,930 --> 00:31:39,090
Speaker 6: border security and reasonable enforcement while also embracing our status

650
00:31:39,130 --> 00:31:40,890
Speaker 6: as a nation of immigrants. You know, are you for

651
00:31:40,970 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 6: decriminalizing border crossings, you know, and in extreme positions like that?

652
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 6: Not are you for broad protections for trans people and

653
00:31:47,860 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 6: trans rights and firmly in favor of expanding the universe

654
00:31:51,380 --> 00:31:53,340
Speaker 6: of civil rights. protections, but do you believe in all,

655
00:31:53,500 --> 00:31:55,860
Speaker 6: even the most niche examples, you know, like Kamala getting

656
00:31:55,900 --> 00:31:58,700
Speaker 6: hung up on this question about, you know, supporting gender

657
00:31:58,860 --> 00:32:01,380
Speaker 6: reassignment surgeries for prisoners, right? So what we've done is

658
00:32:01,420 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 6: we've said, you know, not just what do we believe

659
00:32:03,740 --> 00:32:05,900
Speaker 6: in as good liberals and as Democrats, but can we

660
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,790
Speaker 6: sort of be almost edgelordy About saying we're going to

661
00:32:08,990 --> 00:32:12,010
Speaker 6: hold our candidates and leaders to the fringiest examples that

662
00:32:12,030 --> 00:32:14,020
Speaker 6: we can possibly think of. And that has had the

663
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,340
Speaker 6: effect of shrinking our tense. So you're right when I

664
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:17,959
Speaker 6: sort of lay it out, like you said, it sounds appealing.

665
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,140
Speaker 6: And what we need to do is reject that era

666
00:32:20,180 --> 00:32:21,970
Speaker 6: of purity tests and sort of move towards a more

667
00:32:22,030 --> 00:32:22,530
Speaker 6: big tentative.

668
00:32:22,550 --> 00:32:25,570
Speaker 1: So I understand what you're saying. And I certainly think

669
00:32:25,610 --> 00:32:28,670
Speaker 1: like if they're, you know, the good example is the

670
00:32:28,930 --> 00:32:32,709
Speaker 1: raising your hands during debates, right? Like, do you support,

671
00:32:32,950 --> 00:32:36,790
Speaker 1: you know, whatever? Because there's no room for explanation. And

672
00:32:37,010 --> 00:32:40,090
Speaker 1: a lot of these ideas are pretty nuanced. And the

673
00:32:40,150 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: power that a president is going to have is also nuanced.

674
00:32:43,460 --> 00:32:46,380
Speaker 1: It feels to me like there are two separate things here, right?

675
00:32:46,660 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 1: One is getting stuck trying to placate a group of

676
00:32:51,020 --> 00:32:55,260
Speaker 1: people who are the group that's like the hall monitor left, right?

677
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: That's the group that, why aren't you wearing a mask?

678
00:32:58,660 --> 00:33:01,060
Speaker 1: You know, that kind of thing. And totally get that.

679
00:33:01,100 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 1: But then there's another question, which is like, does this

680
00:33:04,660 --> 00:33:07,300
Speaker 1: feel like we're saying that the only way to have

681
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,460
Speaker 1: change is incremental change? So for example... Part of why

682
00:33:10,530 --> 00:33:12,730
Speaker 1: people are so mad, part of why voters are so

683
00:33:12,770 --> 00:33:16,290
Speaker 1: mad is because Democrats and Republicans have not delivered for

684
00:33:16,310 --> 00:33:19,670
Speaker 1: them on the things that they want, like cheaper health care.

685
00:33:19,770 --> 00:33:21,830
Speaker 1: Like this question is going to sound annoying, but it's

686
00:33:21,850 --> 00:33:24,530
Speaker 1: a good example, I think. So, for example, there were

687
00:33:24,570 --> 00:33:28,969
Speaker 1: opportunities to make health care cheaper and more like to

688
00:33:29,050 --> 00:33:31,850
Speaker 1: make it so that an MRI costs the same here

689
00:33:32,050 --> 00:33:34,730
Speaker 1: as it does two streets over. Things like that to

690
00:33:34,910 --> 00:33:38,660
Speaker 1: regulate in a way that would affect what things cost.

691
00:33:38,780 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: And we didn't do that. And maybe we didn't do

692
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: that because we didn't have the will. And maybe we

693
00:33:44,220 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: didn't do that because there were a number of groups

694
00:33:46,100 --> 00:33:48,900
Speaker 1: that wanted us not to do that. But like those

695
00:33:49,100 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: little things I think are quite important. And I think

696
00:33:52,540 --> 00:33:55,890
Speaker 1: they may get lost in the broader sweep of trying

697
00:33:56,210 --> 00:33:57,010
Speaker 1: to grow the tent.

698
00:33:57,130 --> 00:33:58,930
Speaker 6: I hear that 100%. But what I would say in

699
00:33:58,990 --> 00:34:01,690
Speaker 6: response is that we don't have to concede anything about

700
00:34:01,710 --> 00:34:04,220
Speaker 6: the scale of our ambition here just to achieve more power.

701
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,540
Speaker 6: I do think people see that as a tradeoff. And

702
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 6: what I'm arguing is that they are the two things

703
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,860
Speaker 6: are actually mutually not just not mutually exclusive, but mutually

704
00:34:11,950 --> 00:34:14,890
Speaker 6: reinforcing and that winning more power will allow us to

705
00:34:15,010 --> 00:34:17,649
Speaker 6: do bigger and better things. which in turn will create

706
00:34:17,670 --> 00:34:20,069
Speaker 6: a virtuous cycle because people will see the benefits of

707
00:34:20,110 --> 00:34:23,810
Speaker 6: democratic governance and want to continue having us in power, right?

708
00:34:23,930 --> 00:34:26,049
Speaker 6: There'll be ups and downs. There'll be downturns. I don't

709
00:34:26,070 --> 00:34:28,410
Speaker 6: want to be Pollyannish about it. But I think, you know,

710
00:34:28,850 --> 00:34:32,109
Speaker 6: having that ambition, it needs to be matched by having

711
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,060
Speaker 6: the power to enact it. I would say, you know,

712
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,620
Speaker 6: let's look at the past two democratic administrations because I

713
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:38,259
Speaker 6: think what you want to do here is marry those

714
00:34:38,300 --> 00:34:41,700
Speaker 6: two things, right? Obama had majorities on this scale, 60

715
00:34:41,700 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 6: seats in the Senate, huge majorities in the House. But

716
00:34:44,020 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 6: I was there working for Harry Reid in the Senate

717
00:34:46,180 --> 00:34:48,060
Speaker 6: at the time. And we were still locked in this

718
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,810
Speaker 6: belief that Republicans would be good faith partners in in

719
00:34:51,890 --> 00:34:54,250
Speaker 6: working with us. And that held us back from from

720
00:34:54,310 --> 00:34:55,890
Speaker 6: doing more as much as we could do. So then

721
00:34:55,910 --> 00:34:57,870
Speaker 6: fast forward to the Biden era. He had, you know,

722
00:34:58,110 --> 00:35:02,270
Speaker 6: bigger ambitions, but smaller majorities. And he was was able

723
00:35:02,290 --> 00:35:04,259
Speaker 6: to accomplish less. And then what he did accomplish was

724
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,820
Speaker 6: easily rolled back by Republicans. So what I would do

725
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:08,959
Speaker 6: is sort of marry those two things together and say,

726
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,660
Speaker 6: we need to win enormous majorities and then come in

727
00:35:11,940 --> 00:35:14,020
Speaker 6: firing on all cylinders, put it that way. and just

728
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:18,049
Speaker 6: go hell for leather to enact huge changes to universal

729
00:35:18,090 --> 00:35:21,330
Speaker 6: health care, expanding the safety net, realizing FDR's vision of

730
00:35:21,370 --> 00:35:23,650
Speaker 6: a cradle-to-grave system of social insurance. All these things are

731
00:35:23,690 --> 00:35:26,150
Speaker 6: things that we can do. But then also, we need

732
00:35:26,170 --> 00:35:28,450
Speaker 6: to enact the structural reforms that are necessary to make

733
00:35:28,469 --> 00:35:31,910
Speaker 6: this stick, ending the filibuster, court reform, statehood for D.C.

734
00:35:31,930 --> 00:35:34,270
Speaker 6: and Puerto Rico. And to do all those things, you're

735
00:35:34,310 --> 00:35:35,890
Speaker 6: going to need huge majorities.

736
00:35:35,910 --> 00:35:36,370
Speaker 2: You just will.

737
00:35:36,390 --> 00:35:39,109
Speaker 1: But so, for example, Chuck Schumer has a kid who

738
00:35:39,150 --> 00:35:42,010
Speaker 1: works for OpenAI and a kid who works for Meta.

739
00:35:42,300 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 1: So if Democrats win back the Senate, he's going to

740
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:49,180
Speaker 1: be the leader of the Senate and enact regulation on technology?

741
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 6: So I think Schumer is not the leader that we

742
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,660
Speaker 6: need to lead us into this next era. And I

743
00:35:54,700 --> 00:35:56,980
Speaker 6: say that as somebody who is sympathetic to the idea

744
00:35:57,020 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 6: that he sometimes is underestimated. He's done a pretty good

745
00:35:59,420 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 6: job with candidate recruitment. You know, he's had some misses. Listen,

746
00:36:02,700 --> 00:36:04,980
Speaker 6: I worked with him closely for a long time when

747
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:06,340
Speaker 6: I was in the Senate. But I think, look, I

748
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,620
Speaker 6: think It is time to pass the torch to a

749
00:36:08,660 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 6: new generation of leaders.

750
00:36:09,620 --> 00:36:10,410
Speaker 3: Let's put it that way.

751
00:36:10,530 --> 00:36:14,490
Speaker 6: And I think that if he oversees a successful cycle

752
00:36:14,750 --> 00:36:17,970
Speaker 6: with Democrats, you know, maybe retaking the Senate this November,

753
00:36:18,190 --> 00:36:20,180
Speaker 6: that's a great time to go out on top is

754
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,620
Speaker 6: what I would suggest. Listen, you know, that's what Reid did, right?

755
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:25,980
Speaker 6: He did not hang on to the bitter end and

756
00:36:26,020 --> 00:36:28,490
Speaker 6: sort of force people. to sort of force him out.

757
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:30,430
Speaker 6: He knew when it was his time to step down.

758
00:36:30,450 --> 00:36:32,190
Speaker 6: And I think there's a lot to be said for

759
00:36:32,210 --> 00:36:34,370
Speaker 6: that because you get to sort of define your legacy

760
00:36:34,650 --> 00:36:37,109
Speaker 6: and go out on a high note rather than stick

761
00:36:37,150 --> 00:36:39,890
Speaker 6: around and have people, you know, eventually kind of have

762
00:36:39,930 --> 00:36:40,529
Speaker 6: to force you out.

763
00:36:40,790 --> 00:36:44,660
Speaker 1: But Harry Reid was a brilliant leader of the Senate

764
00:36:44,940 --> 00:36:48,380
Speaker 1: and was a Mitch McConnell type, whereas he did things

765
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 1: where people were like, how did Harry Reid get that done?

766
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,540
Speaker 1: Whereas no one has ever said that about Chuck Schumer.

767
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 6: Like I said, I think it's time to pass the

768
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:55,990
Speaker 6: torch for him.

769
00:36:56,140 --> 00:37:00,530
Speaker 1: So when we look at the things that Democrats want

770
00:37:00,630 --> 00:37:03,410
Speaker 1: in the base, they want to be able to afford

771
00:37:03,489 --> 00:37:07,130
Speaker 1: to live. They want to be able to afford to

772
00:37:07,170 --> 00:37:09,230
Speaker 1: get sick and not have their lives ruined. I mean,

773
00:37:09,430 --> 00:37:13,540
Speaker 1: the thing is they want, you know, maybe some child care,

774
00:37:13,620 --> 00:37:16,700
Speaker 1: you know, even like Zorian's a great example because like

775
00:37:16,860 --> 00:37:21,140
Speaker 1: people got nuts, like the pundit class and affluent friends

776
00:37:21,180 --> 00:37:25,430
Speaker 1: of mine, nuts over Zorian. Probably the most provocative thing

777
00:37:25,510 --> 00:37:28,569
Speaker 1: he did was talk about freezing the rent because there

778
00:37:28,590 --> 00:37:31,549
Speaker 1: are a lot of people who own buildings in New York. But,

779
00:37:31,590 --> 00:37:33,569
Speaker 1: you know, the real estate lobby is humongous in New

780
00:37:33,590 --> 00:37:35,359
Speaker 1: York and they have a lot of power. But like

781
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,500
Speaker 1: in the end, all of these things that were so

782
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:42,819
Speaker 1: controversial were basically like. Like, make it so people can survive.

783
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 1: Whereas like the Republican base is like, let's, you know,

784
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,630
Speaker 1: do camps. So explain to me why Democrats need to

785
00:37:50,710 --> 00:37:52,250
Speaker 1: push on that base at all.

786
00:37:52,510 --> 00:37:54,770
Speaker 6: So that's what's interesting here is I think Zoran is

787
00:37:54,790 --> 00:37:57,410
Speaker 6: doing a fantastic job. You know, I think he he's

788
00:37:57,450 --> 00:37:59,290
Speaker 6: a model, at least in how he's approached the job

789
00:37:59,430 --> 00:38:01,650
Speaker 6: for Democrats. In lots of places, I would not try

790
00:38:01,690 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 6: to project his exact ideological specifics onto like Iowa or

791
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 6: Ohio or Alaska. But the energy, the enthusiasm, the focus

792
00:38:09,700 --> 00:38:11,980
Speaker 6: on affordability, all those things are lessons that are that

793
00:38:12,020 --> 00:38:14,870
Speaker 6: are translatable to other areas and races. But listen, I

794
00:38:14,890 --> 00:38:17,570
Speaker 6: don't think that what I'm proposing here really means pushing

795
00:38:17,610 --> 00:38:20,089
Speaker 6: back on the base. I think it's just about, you know,

796
00:38:20,250 --> 00:38:22,310
Speaker 6: what do you need to do to build out from

797
00:38:22,350 --> 00:38:26,020
Speaker 6: that base? What the specific sort of left-wing ideology that

798
00:38:26,060 --> 00:38:29,140
Speaker 6: is very resonant in bluer places like New York, what

799
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,140
Speaker 6: they call a commie corridor that you're familiar, you know,

800
00:38:31,190 --> 00:38:32,230
Speaker 6: in Brooklyn, that's great.

801
00:38:32,270 --> 00:38:32,629
Speaker 3: That's fine.

802
00:38:32,690 --> 00:38:35,569
Speaker 6: If DSA people want to, you know, represent those places,

803
00:38:35,610 --> 00:38:38,110
Speaker 6: that's fine. But then you look at a state like Iowa,

804
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,300
Speaker 6: which Trump won by 10 points. in 2024, you know,

805
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,259
Speaker 6: that's not going to translate there. And so what I'm

806
00:38:43,300 --> 00:38:45,919
Speaker 6: proposing is, you know, taking some of the lessons about

807
00:38:45,940 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 6: how to use social media, how to focus on affordability,

808
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 6: all those things. But, you know, Josh Turek, who's running

809
00:38:50,219 --> 00:38:52,569
Speaker 6: for Senate as a Democrat in Iowa, his latest ad

810
00:38:52,590 --> 00:38:54,330
Speaker 6: is about, you know, being tough on the border, on

811
00:38:54,350 --> 00:38:56,730
Speaker 6: border security. You probably need to have some positions like

812
00:38:56,770 --> 00:38:58,890
Speaker 6: that in Iowa. Now, what you're going to end up with,

813
00:38:59,110 --> 00:39:01,969
Speaker 6: if we're successful on this model that I'm proposing, is

814
00:39:02,070 --> 00:39:05,549
Speaker 6: still a party where, you know, the overwhelming majority of

815
00:39:05,590 --> 00:39:07,939
Speaker 6: it is made up of the base. But you've built

816
00:39:08,060 --> 00:39:11,820
Speaker 6: out from there Democrats in additional seats like Iowa, Alaska, Texas,

817
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 6: who are still, even though they've adopted some small handful

818
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,779
Speaker 6: of heterodox positions where, you know, James Tallarico, who's a

819
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,830
Speaker 6: darling of liberals, has embraced the fossil fuel industry in

820
00:39:21,870 --> 00:39:24,810
Speaker 6: Texas because it's critical to Texas's economy and employs hundreds

821
00:39:24,850 --> 00:39:26,549
Speaker 6: of thousands of workers. Can't win Texas without, you know,

822
00:39:26,570 --> 00:39:28,210
Speaker 6: by saying, you know, keep it in the ground on

823
00:39:28,350 --> 00:39:30,930
Speaker 6: climate and opposing the fossil fuel industry. But is Tallarico

824
00:39:31,190 --> 00:39:34,489
Speaker 6: going to vote for expansions of health care for all

825
00:39:34,510 --> 00:39:36,530
Speaker 6: these affordability things that you're describing?

826
00:39:36,610 --> 00:39:37,350
Speaker 2: Of course he is.

827
00:39:37,630 --> 00:39:40,390
Speaker 6: You know, and so my argument is that it is

828
00:39:40,469 --> 00:39:43,549
Speaker 6: far better to have Tallarico in that Senate seat than

829
00:39:43,590 --> 00:39:47,260
Speaker 6: Ken Paxton, you know, or Josh Turek than Ashley Hinson,

830
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,020
Speaker 6: you know, both of whom would be rubber stamps for

831
00:39:49,060 --> 00:39:51,740
Speaker 6: MAGA agenda. And, you know, do we have to concede

832
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:53,700
Speaker 6: that they're going to take a few positions that are,

833
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:55,500
Speaker 6: you know, a little bit more to the center, to

834
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,259
Speaker 6: the right in order to win these deep red states?

835
00:39:57,420 --> 00:39:59,950
Speaker 6: To me, that is a worthy tradeoff because not just

836
00:39:59,969 --> 00:40:01,350
Speaker 6: does it does it give you extra votes, but it

837
00:40:01,370 --> 00:40:03,310
Speaker 6: also means we have a chance at holding the Senate,

838
00:40:03,469 --> 00:40:09,110
Speaker 6: you know, but building out some margins so that we

839
00:40:09,130 --> 00:40:11,730
Speaker 6: can survive if we have a downturn in the next midterm.

840
00:40:11,770 --> 00:40:13,510
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Because it's important.

841
00:40:13,570 --> 00:40:15,950
Speaker 6: If you lose the Senate, you immediately lose your ability

842
00:40:15,969 --> 00:40:18,290
Speaker 6: to pass laws because Republicans are blocking everything.

843
00:40:18,310 --> 00:40:19,270
Speaker 3: And yes, exactly.

844
00:40:19,430 --> 00:40:22,149
Speaker 6: And even maybe perhaps more importantly, you know, the Senate

845
00:40:22,190 --> 00:40:24,089
Speaker 6: is the only body that confirms judges. So if you

846
00:40:24,250 --> 00:40:26,310
Speaker 6: if you have a one seat majority and you quickly

847
00:40:26,350 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 6: lose it back to Republicans, you know, they're just going

848
00:40:28,219 --> 00:40:30,800
Speaker 6: to blockade any any openings on the Supreme Court until

849
00:40:30,820 --> 00:40:32,100
Speaker 6: they have a chance to fill it.

850
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,299
Speaker 3: So these margins matter. You know, and that's that's what

851
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:35,760
Speaker 3: I'm arguing.

852
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:37,900
Speaker 6: We need to think about your big picture here is

853
00:40:38,060 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 6: how to build out from our base and then win

854
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:41,830
Speaker 6: more durable power in more places.

855
00:40:42,090 --> 00:40:45,890
Speaker 1: I had Josh Turek and also Rob Sand on this podcast.

856
00:40:46,010 --> 00:40:51,540
Speaker 1: Even Bobby Polito. Bobby Polito is running an R plus 19.

857
00:40:51,540 --> 00:40:54,839
Speaker 1: And he's running, he's a Catholic, right? The whole thing

858
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,540
Speaker 1: is that they're Hispanic Catholic. So are you going to

859
00:40:58,700 --> 00:41:02,150
Speaker 1: ask him what trimester he believes in abortion? I'm going

860
00:41:02,170 --> 00:41:04,750
Speaker 1: to guess that he is not pro-choice. I'm just going

861
00:41:04,770 --> 00:41:06,149
Speaker 1: to guess. I'm going to go out on a limb

862
00:41:06,170 --> 00:41:08,410
Speaker 1: here and guess. I didn't ask him because life is

863
00:41:08,430 --> 00:41:11,690
Speaker 1: hard enough. But the point here is like, so we

864
00:41:11,710 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 1: look at candidates like that. Yes, got it. But when

865
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,300
Speaker 1: I think about Rob Sand, like what Sand is saying

866
00:41:18,540 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 1: is that it's not left versus right. It's up versus down, right?

867
00:41:21,260 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: It's populism. But that without the populist message is pretty

868
00:41:26,620 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 1: much like I understand that there are candidates who are

869
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:34,140
Speaker 1: not talented, who talk themselves into problems, you know, where

870
00:41:34,180 --> 00:41:37,700
Speaker 1: they were the interviewers, you know, asking them questions about

871
00:41:37,890 --> 00:41:40,830
Speaker 1: things that are, you know, sex changes for prisoners.

872
00:41:40,910 --> 00:41:41,129
Speaker 6: Right.

873
00:41:41,170 --> 00:41:43,890
Speaker 1: Step that there's no world in which any of this

874
00:41:43,969 --> 00:41:47,549
Speaker 1: is a win. Right. I just wonder if the inside

875
00:41:47,810 --> 00:41:50,150
Speaker 1: of all of these campaigns is sort of the same,

876
00:41:50,469 --> 00:41:53,739
Speaker 1: the idea that it's about getting more from the government

877
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:54,339
Speaker 1: for people.

878
00:41:54,530 --> 00:41:55,420
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's right.

879
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:57,580
Speaker 6: I mean, in the book, I argue for this vision

880
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:01,340
Speaker 6: of heterodox Big Ten populism. And in the last chapter,

881
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:02,980
Speaker 6: I sort of lay out a vision of what I

882
00:42:03,020 --> 00:42:06,549
Speaker 6: think we can achieve in very, very big, ambitious policy terms,

883
00:42:06,739 --> 00:42:10,510
Speaker 6: literally fulfilling FDR's vision of a cradle-to-grave you know, system

884
00:42:10,530 --> 00:42:12,710
Speaker 6: of social insurance where the government is there for you

885
00:42:13,469 --> 00:42:15,549
Speaker 6: no matter what stage of life you're in and is

886
00:42:15,570 --> 00:42:16,870
Speaker 6: not going to let you fall through the cracks. You'll

887
00:42:16,910 --> 00:42:19,390
Speaker 6: always have enough money to put a roof over your head,

888
00:42:19,430 --> 00:42:20,800
Speaker 6: to put food on the table, to take care of

889
00:42:20,820 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 6: your kids. Like we can achieve this. We can achieve

890
00:42:23,020 --> 00:42:25,839
Speaker 6: universal health care, right? We can achieve a good school

891
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 6: for every kid. And a chance to rise as high

892
00:42:27,780 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 6: as their talents will take them. You know, these are

893
00:42:29,340 --> 00:42:31,069
Speaker 6: all things that are within our grasp. But, you know,

894
00:42:31,130 --> 00:42:33,870
Speaker 6: even with Rob in his campaign, part of the reason

895
00:42:33,890 --> 00:42:36,779
Speaker 6: he's able to drive this very clear bottom versus top

896
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:40,739
Speaker 6: message with a really strong focus on anti-corruption is that

897
00:42:40,780 --> 00:42:43,049
Speaker 6: he's taken some of these cultural issues off the table.

898
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,190
Speaker 6: You know, it was almost a year ago where he

899
00:42:45,230 --> 00:42:47,450
Speaker 6: was on a right wing radio talk show and the

900
00:42:47,489 --> 00:42:49,890
Speaker 6: host asked him straight up, what do you think on transports?

901
00:42:49,930 --> 00:42:51,910
Speaker 6: You know, should he said, you know, biological males play

902
00:42:51,989 --> 00:42:54,609
Speaker 6: sports with girls? And Rob just said, no, one word answer.

903
00:42:54,830 --> 00:42:56,630
Speaker 6: And the host is sort of dead air. And the

904
00:42:56,670 --> 00:42:58,830
Speaker 6: host was like, oh, well, I thought you were going to,

905
00:42:59,010 --> 00:43:00,210
Speaker 6: you know, sort of try to wriggle out of it.

906
00:43:00,210 --> 00:43:02,609
Speaker 6: I had all these follow up questions ready. I wasn't

907
00:43:02,630 --> 00:43:04,850
Speaker 6: ready for you to say no. And it just moved on.

908
00:43:05,010 --> 00:43:05,250
Speaker 1: Right.

909
00:43:05,380 --> 00:43:07,899
Speaker 6: And so in a state like Iowa, does that seem

910
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,060
Speaker 6: like a reasonable tradeoff for us to make as Democrats?

911
00:43:11,380 --> 00:43:14,260
Speaker 6: And having Rob Sand as governor would unquestionably be better

912
00:43:14,500 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 6: for trans people than having a MAGA Republican who's going

913
00:43:17,460 --> 00:43:19,739
Speaker 6: to be seeking to roll back their rights. So, you know,

914
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,779
Speaker 6: this is a state Trump won by 10 points. And

915
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:23,740
Speaker 6: I think that part of my argument is that tradeoffs

916
00:43:23,860 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 6: do exist and we need to be clear about this.

917
00:43:26,420 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 6: And to me, those sorts of tradeoffs are certainly worth

918
00:43:29,700 --> 00:43:31,980
Speaker 6: it because Democrats are going to fight for trans rights,

919
00:43:32,180 --> 00:43:34,660
Speaker 6: you know, versus MAGA Republicans and that that's, you know,

920
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 6: better for everybody.

921
00:43:35,620 --> 00:43:38,339
Speaker 1: So but when we look at Hakeem Jeffries, who would

922
00:43:38,380 --> 00:43:40,260
Speaker 1: be the Speaker of the House of Democrats for the House,

923
00:43:40,489 --> 00:43:42,090
Speaker 1: one of the things I'm struck by is there's a

924
00:43:42,210 --> 00:43:45,810
Speaker 1: nervousness there. It just feels as if he has trouble

925
00:43:46,050 --> 00:43:50,450
Speaker 1: pushing back in an organic way. Why is that? And also,

926
00:43:50,469 --> 00:43:54,130
Speaker 1: is that the sort of populism like that? I mean,

927
00:43:54,170 --> 00:43:56,930
Speaker 1: it just it seems like part of the problem here

928
00:43:56,969 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 1: is this idea that you have to make everyone happy.

929
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:02,420
Speaker 6: You know, the job of a leader is is really difficult.

930
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:06,259
Speaker 6: And historically, you know, our congressional leaders have not always

931
00:44:06,300 --> 00:44:09,210
Speaker 6: been great communicators because the skills that make you a

932
00:44:09,250 --> 00:44:12,009
Speaker 6: successful leader are not always the same as those that

933
00:44:12,030 --> 00:44:15,030
Speaker 6: make you a great communicator on TV or in social media.

934
00:44:15,410 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 6: I think Jeffrey's big test is going to be, can

935
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 6: he deliver? And that's what we should judge him on.

936
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:23,859
Speaker 6: Especially if Democrats do well this midterm cycle, we're going

937
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 6: to have an incredibly deep bench of members of Congress,

938
00:44:27,140 --> 00:44:29,630
Speaker 6: a whole new generation of leaders, many of whom are

939
00:44:29,710 --> 00:44:33,750
Speaker 6: extremely gifted and successful messengers. And one of the things

940
00:44:33,770 --> 00:44:35,870
Speaker 6: you can do as leader is delegate a lot of

941
00:44:35,910 --> 00:44:39,129
Speaker 6: those communication functions to people who are better or more

942
00:44:39,170 --> 00:44:40,180
Speaker 6: natural on camera.

943
00:44:40,469 --> 00:44:41,259
Speaker 2: And Jeffrey's.

944
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 6: So what I would say is let's judge him based

945
00:44:44,340 --> 00:44:47,180
Speaker 6: on whether he can deliver big results in terms of

946
00:44:47,420 --> 00:44:50,399
Speaker 6: being a forceful opponent to Trump. If we take back

947
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:54,779
Speaker 6: the House, you know, exercising his oversight powers to bring

948
00:44:54,820 --> 00:44:58,110
Speaker 6: to light some of this corruption of forcing some serious

949
00:44:58,170 --> 00:45:00,590
Speaker 6: restrictions on Democrats. AI in this industry that has us

950
00:45:00,650 --> 00:45:03,830
Speaker 6: all genuinely terrified right now? And then if we're back

951
00:45:03,870 --> 00:45:07,690
Speaker 6: in power, you know, can he shepherd to passage generational change?

952
00:45:07,810 --> 00:45:11,370
Speaker 6: You know, big, big changes both to policy and structural

953
00:45:11,410 --> 00:45:13,649
Speaker 6: reforms like, you know, state effort, D.C. and Puerto Rico,

954
00:45:13,670 --> 00:45:16,430
Speaker 6: things like that. So I think Jeffries may not ever

955
00:45:16,489 --> 00:45:19,930
Speaker 6: be the greatest communicator that we have. The real test

956
00:45:19,969 --> 00:45:23,830
Speaker 6: for him is can he deliver with the power that

957
00:45:23,890 --> 00:45:24,750
Speaker 6: he is given?

958
00:45:25,050 --> 00:45:26,730
Speaker 1: Adam, thank you for coming on.

959
00:45:26,850 --> 00:45:27,710
Speaker 6: It's been great to be.

960
00:45:27,630 --> 00:45:27,890
Speaker 5: Here, Molly.

961
00:45:31,530 --> 00:45:38,799
Speaker 4: And now your moment of fuckery. jesse cannon molly jug

962
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 4: fast so a computer glitch from a data center in

963
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 4: secaucus new jersey filled 5 000 gallons of diesel now

964
00:45:45,860 --> 00:45:49,569
Speaker 4: my brother-in-law sister-in-law niece live there not far away i.

965
00:45:49,570 --> 00:45:52,930
Speaker 2: Don't even know how a fucking data center can have

966
00:45:52,950 --> 00:45:56,250
Speaker 2: a computer glitch that says pour diesel into the.

967
00:45:56,270 --> 00:45:59,830
Speaker 1: Meadowlands so it's 5 000 gallons of fuel from a

968
00:45:59,850 --> 00:46:02,830
Speaker 1: storage tank and this creek is not just like some

969
00:46:02,870 --> 00:46:06,870
Speaker 1: rando creek it's a tribune which means that it's like

970
00:46:07,130 --> 00:46:09,109
Speaker 1: a river that goes into other rivers and it goes

971
00:46:09,170 --> 00:46:12,489
Speaker 1: into the Hackensack River, which winds through the Meadowlands and

972
00:46:12,590 --> 00:46:15,490
Speaker 1: empties into Newark Bay. So, I mean, the good news

973
00:46:15,650 --> 00:46:18,870
Speaker 1: is that we have no EPA anymore. I'm just kidding.

974
00:46:18,910 --> 00:46:21,270
Speaker 1: That's actually the bad news. But this is such a

975
00:46:21,310 --> 00:46:25,219
Speaker 1: great example of why we really, really, really, really, really

976
00:46:25,300 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 1: need to regulate these data centers. And we really, really,

977
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 1: really need to regulate pollution. And what this administration is

978
00:46:32,500 --> 00:46:33,980
Speaker 1: doing is unconscionable.

979
00:46:34,500 --> 00:46:36,420
Speaker 2: I also just think of what Lena Kahn wrote the

980
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:41,320
Speaker 2: other day about that a normal administration would have literally

981
00:46:41,489 --> 00:46:45,589
Speaker 2: people inside the offices of these companies going, what the

982
00:46:45,770 --> 00:46:48,830
Speaker 2: fuck are you doing? And a normal administration, as John

983
00:46:48,930 --> 00:46:51,779
Speaker 2: Ossoff would say, would be writing treaties and figuring out

984
00:46:51,820 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 2: things to get this under fucking control.

985
00:46:54,360 --> 00:47:00,170
Speaker 1: Correct. Correct. That's it for this episode of Fast Politics.

986
00:47:00,610 --> 00:47:06,510
Speaker 1: Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Saturday to hear

987
00:47:06,530 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 1: the best minds in politics make sense of all this chaos.

988
00:47:11,380 --> 00:47:14,100
Speaker 1: If you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a

989
00:47:14,180 --> 00:47:18,190
Speaker 1: friend and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.