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Speaker 1: You place your left hand on the bay and Bible

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Speaker 1: and raise your right hand and repeat after me. I

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Speaker 1: solemnly swear jury trying it attended this weekend in Ferguson

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Speaker 1: and around the country's resisting your It makes no sense

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Speaker 1: if it doesn't fit your must equip judge. You are

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Speaker 1: the last line of reason in this case. Every one

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Speaker 1: of us took it all the sas and we're scorn

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Speaker 1: to a poll of the Constitution. From Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta,

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Speaker 1: this is sworn. I'm your host, Philip Holloway. This episode

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Speaker 1: is dedicated to the memory of the lives lost in

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Speaker 1: the October one mass murder in Las Vegas, Nevada. It's

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Speaker 1: also dedicated in honor of the first responders and Seville

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Speaker 1: and heroes who prevented this from being any more terrible

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Speaker 1: than it already was. The uncomfortable truth is that mass

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Speaker 1: murder has been around as long as human kind. We'll

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Speaker 1: explore the question of whether anything could have been done

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Speaker 1: to prevent this tragedy in Las Vegas, while we also

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Speaker 1: explore and break down the Second Amendment and what the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court has told us that the Second Amendment means.

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Speaker 1: Joy six nine. We got shots fired for day and

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Speaker 1: bringing any one. So I'm like, I'm out a fire

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Speaker 1: up because that when you signed dammy shop, I'll start

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Speaker 1: generally me. I'll play off like a shot gun. I'll

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Speaker 1: play up Drols. We have a we have an acre room,

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Speaker 1: brave and the whole ward got the audience of the

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Speaker 1: thirty sickond floors. One has explosive breach everyone and know

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Speaker 1: how I need to lose it back. All units move back.

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Speaker 1: We need the air flare for Debra. Twenty one suspicked

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Speaker 1: down inside the room. Twenty one s picked down inside

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Speaker 1: the room. There's one down, thirty sick animal day. On

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Speaker 1: the night of October one, America experienced an unspeakable tragedy,

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Speaker 1: the largest mass shooting in modern US history and the

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Speaker 1: most fatal attack on our soil since September eleven, two

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Speaker 1: thousand one. A gunman named Stephen Paddock opened fire on

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Speaker 1: the audience at the Root Harvest Music Festival in Las Vegas, Nevada.

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Speaker 1: Our hearts go out to the friends and the families

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Speaker 1: of any and all of the victims. Our deepest condolences

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Speaker 1: are extended to those who lost their lives and the

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Speaker 1: loved ones they left behind, and our greatest hope is

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Speaker 1: for a swift and full recovery for everyone who was injured.

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Speaker 1: Up to this date, the US mass shooting with the

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Speaker 1: most fatalities was in Orlando, Florida, at the Pulse nightclub

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Speaker 1: in June of The shooter in that case was Omar Matene,

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Speaker 1: who killed forty nine people and wounded fifty eight at

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Speaker 1: the least. With mass shootings like the Las Vegas massacre

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Speaker 1: at the forefront of everyone's mind, I'd like to take

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Speaker 1: this opportunity to discuss the topical issues at hand. This

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Speaker 1: tragic incident has brought a lot of attention to the

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Speaker 1: ongoing political discussion of gun control laws and terrorism and

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Speaker 1: what can we do to protect ourselves in situations like this.

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Speaker 1: Of course, this podcast is not a political discussion, and

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Speaker 1: it's not our intention to make it one. But this

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Speaker 1: is also a real part of the criminal justice system,

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Speaker 1: and so it's relevant and appropriate for us to discuss

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Speaker 1: the issue of mass murder. So to tie this into

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Speaker 1: the greater theme of SWORN, I'll be discussing the issues

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Speaker 1: that have risen in the media since the Las Vegas massacre,

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Speaker 1: and I'll be discussing them through the lens of legality.

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Speaker 1: Would gun control laws helped prevent this situation from occurring?

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Speaker 1: How else would gun control laws affect us as a country.

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Speaker 1: Why isn't this labeled as domestic terrorism? Some people think

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Speaker 1: that it should be. However, federal law defines terrorism as

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Speaker 1: the use of violence to intimidate or coerce a government

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Speaker 1: or civilians to influence policy. So if this isn't that,

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Speaker 1: then what is it. Here's Sworn producer Meredith Steadman with

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Speaker 1: a more detailed look at the events of the tragedy

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Speaker 1: of October one in Las Vegas. The sadness surrounding the

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Speaker 1: events of October one has been inescapable. The Las Vegas

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Speaker 1: massacre has permeated our news outlets, as it should given

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Speaker 1: the devastating circumstances. Because there's been such constant coverage, it

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Speaker 1: can be hard to keep the facts straight. We wanted

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Speaker 1: to give you a brief overview of what information has

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Speaker 1: been disclosed. The perpetrator of this massacre was sixty four

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Speaker 1: year old Stephen Craig Paddock. Paddock, who lived in multiple

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Speaker 1: places throughout the course of his life, was currently a

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Speaker 1: resident of Mesquite, Nevada, about an hour from Las Vegas.

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Speaker 1: He was an accountant and a real estate investor, successful

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Speaker 1: enough to sustain his gambling hobby, which brought him to

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Speaker 1: Las Vegas fairly often. Paddock suggested that his girlfriend Mary

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Speaker 1: Lou Danley go to the Philippines two weeks before the

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Speaker 1: incident occurred. He bought her a plane ticket and later

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Speaker 1: wired her a thousand dollars. She said she had no

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Speaker 1: knowledge of his plans or of any mental health issues

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Speaker 1: that he may have been struggling with. Paddock's brother, Eric Paddock,

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Speaker 1: said the same. The massacre began just after ten pm

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Speaker 1: on Sunday night. From his room on the thirty second

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Speaker 1: floor of the Mandalay Bay Resort. Paddock opened fired into

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Speaker 1: the crowd at the Root Harvest Music Festival during the

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Speaker 1: set of country singer Jason al Dean. Paddock has smashed

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Speaker 1: out the window of his hotel room with a hammer.

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Speaker 1: Prior to shooting, Paddock placed cameras in and around his room,

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Speaker 1: one in the people in, two in the hallway to

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Speaker 1: monitor the hallways for security personnel. He had twenty three

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Speaker 1: rifles in the hotel room and one handgun. Twelve of

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Speaker 1: the firearms were altered with bump fire stocks, which allow

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Speaker 1: semi automatic rifles to function as fully automatic weapons. After

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Speaker 1: a search was conducted, nineteen more firearms were found in

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Speaker 1: Paddock's home, along with explosives in severn a thousand rounds

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Speaker 1: of ammunition. Ammonium nitrate, often used in homemade explosives, was

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Speaker 1: found in the trunk of his car. Paddock was found

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Speaker 1: dead in his room with a self inflicted gunshot wound

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Speaker 1: to the head. His motive is still undetermined. People were

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Speaker 1: killed in this incident, with over five dred injured. This

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Speaker 1: is now the largest mass shooting in modern UN's history,

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Speaker 1: surpassing the Pulse nightclub shooting in Orlando. Good afternoon, is

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Speaker 1: this Dr Wilki, Good after day and how are you today?

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Speaker 1: Doing great? How are you sir? Well? I think all

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Speaker 1: things are fine, looking forward to a nice week in

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Speaker 1: the weather. Would you mind starting by letting us know

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Speaker 1: just a little bit about who you are and identifying

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Speaker 1: yourself please? I served in the Atlanta area as the

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Speaker 1: chief of police of the City of Aca George up

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Speaker 1: in cop County for right at ten years twenty five

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Speaker 1: years total in the law enforcement field, before retiring six

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Speaker 1: years ago to go on exactly at Bob Jens University

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Speaker 1: I've be in Greenville, South Carolina about James Is as

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Speaker 1: a Christian College, and I teach in our criminal justice section,

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Speaker 1: graduate the FBI National Academy, hold a doctoral degree in

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Speaker 1: public administration from Baldosta State University. For most of my

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Speaker 1: time as a as a law enforcement officer, I also

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Speaker 1: served as a police firearms instructor. How long have you

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Speaker 1: been teaching firearms? How many years total teaching firearms? Probably

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Speaker 1: somewhere in excess of twenty five years, and in terms

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Speaker 1: of handling films, something excess of fifty years. Does that

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Speaker 1: include what's commonly referred to as assault rifles as well,

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Speaker 1: that misnomer that is given to platforms such as the

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Speaker 1: a R fifteen. Yes, I do handle those firearms and

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Speaker 1: have shot them and have instructed in them. How about

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Speaker 1: fully automatic weapons? I'm not certified and fully automatic weapons

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Speaker 1: handled a number of them, both in the civilian law

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Speaker 1: enforcement in the military context. I'm not actually certified to

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Speaker 1: teach that particular file. So we want to talk about

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Speaker 1: what happened in Las Vegas. I'm sure you've been following

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Speaker 1: the news, and one of the topics that I want

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Speaker 1: to talk about first is go back and explain why

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Speaker 1: you said the term assault rifle is a misnomer place

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Speaker 1: that term is applied to some way that we've made

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Speaker 1: in funt arms such as the ALE fifteen, the a

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Speaker 1: K four seven similar firearms like that that are long

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Speaker 1: rifles that have a magazine capacity, usually in excess of

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Speaker 1: ten rounds in the magazine. That's worthing. The term assault

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Speaker 1: rifle really essentially showed about nowhere as far as I'm concerned,

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Speaker 1: is a essentially a media term that has been handled

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Speaker 1: and given to a number of different firms platforms such

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Speaker 1: as the a R fifteen, a K forty seven, and

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Speaker 1: other rifles that will handle magazines that have capacity of

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Speaker 1: more than ten rounds or so your average hunting rifle

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Speaker 1: magazine on the hulls somewhere around three to five rounds,

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Speaker 1: depending on what the state allows for hunting purposes. Pretty

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Speaker 1: much anything over that, the media has just started calling

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Speaker 1: them assault lines, which is I don't think really an

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Speaker 1: appropriate term now. As a civilian and as a firearms

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Speaker 1: instructor and as an advocate frankly for the Second Amendment,

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Speaker 1: I think that there's the question that if you begin

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Speaker 1: to limit the types of access that civilians in this

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Speaker 1: country can have to firearms to an a K forty seven.

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Speaker 1: That's the camel sticking its nose under the proverbial tent.

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Speaker 1: And you just have a whole population that just does

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Speaker 1: not trust where the government will stop on that sort

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Speaker 1: of thing. And I think that the answer is not

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Speaker 1: to go after the gun. The answer is to go

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Speaker 1: after the violin. And if you have people in this

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Speaker 1: country who commit crimes while they are armed, that's where

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Speaker 1: our most serious penalties need to be, and to take people,

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Speaker 1: put them in jail and leave them in jail if

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Speaker 1: they committed a crime and had a firearm on their person.

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Speaker 1: In the middle nineteen nineties, we began incarcerating people seriously

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Speaker 1: in this country who had committed serious felts and we

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Speaker 1: took them out of the pool of being able to

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Speaker 1: commit additional crimes. And since the middle nineteen nineties, across

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Speaker 1: the country, violent crime has plummeted because we are taking

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Speaker 1: the repeat offenders out of circulation. They couldn't do their

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Speaker 1: crimes anymore. We put them in jail, We put them

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Speaker 1: in a place where they cannot harm people. In South

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Speaker 1: Carolina alone, since ninet, violent crime has dropped over and

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Speaker 1: that statistic is fairly well mirrored across the country. That

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Speaker 1: gives us a pretty good answer right there. Take the

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Speaker 1: people who couldmit gun crime, put them in jail, and

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Speaker 1: leave them in jail. And I commented to this group

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Speaker 1: that to date to that day, a couple of weeks ago,

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Speaker 1: the Pulse nightclub shooting in Orlando ranked as the highest

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Speaker 1: mass shooting that we had in the United States. But

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Speaker 1: I told that as I said, but don't worry. There's

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Speaker 1: someone out there right now who was thinking about the

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Speaker 1: Fulse nightclub shooting and saying to themselves, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: go set the new record and long behold. Two weeks

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Speaker 1: or so after I made that statement, someone comes along

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Speaker 1: and does what this individual did and killing all of

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Speaker 1: those people. When the Second Amendment was drafted and adopted,

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Speaker 1: basically they were dealing with muskets, and obviously an air

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Speaker 1: fifteen is much more powerful than a musket. So back

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Speaker 1: in that day, you know, if they wanted to, they

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Speaker 1: could afford one. They could own a cannon out in

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Speaker 1: the backyard instead of shooting skip that's our cannonballs if

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Speaker 1: they wanted to. I'm saying that someone is just, but

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Speaker 1: I'm also seeing it to make a point exactly what

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Speaker 1: the militaries have in terms of their firepower and their weapons.

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Speaker 1: This is exactly what the civilians were entitled to have

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Speaker 1: under the Second Amendment. It would be not that difficult

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Speaker 1: to take a semi automatic firearm of any nature and

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Speaker 1: converted into an automatic firearm. It would not be that

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Speaker 1: terribly difficult to do that with anything, which when you

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Speaker 1: stop and think about that, if that's what happened, and

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Speaker 1: I don't know that that's what happened, all the details

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Speaker 1: not at yet, but if that's what happened with demand

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Speaker 1: few is responsible for shooting all those people in Las Vegas,

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Speaker 1: then he already demonstrated going to break the law to

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Speaker 1: do what he did. What law can we pass that

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Speaker 1: would have stopped that? Well? As us needed. The District

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Speaker 1: of Columbia as a model policy and model city ordinance

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Speaker 1: that prevents the distribution and ownership firearms and restricts them

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Speaker 1: and so forth. And that's why the District of Columbia

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Speaker 1: has one of the lowest Oh wait a minute, no,

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Speaker 1: it don't. The District of Columbia, even with their stringent

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Speaker 1: laws that were founded in a constitutional has one of

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Speaker 1: the highest NERD routes for Capola in the country, so

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Speaker 1: let's go out to it. How about the city of Chicago.

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Speaker 1: They have some pretty good ordinance there. They're restrictive on

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Speaker 1: gun possession and ship and that's why they have some

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Speaker 1: of the lowest crime rates and the nerd Wait, wait, no,

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Speaker 1: they don't. They have some of the highest actions of

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Speaker 1: gun violence and murder in the country. I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: that we can come up with the law because of

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Speaker 1: those that we have on the bucks have not been

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Speaker 1: factored in deterring gun violence. And that's why I'm contending,

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Speaker 1: you know, the focus ought to be on the offender,

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Speaker 1: not on the firelar. You do any kind of crime

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Speaker 1: with a gun, then you have demonstrated a willingness to

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Speaker 1: use that gun and kill somebody. The mere fact that

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Speaker 1: you have it with you when you're committing a crime

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Speaker 1: shows that you're willing to use it. Maybe you didn't

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Speaker 1: use it when you robbed that bank. Maybe you can't

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Speaker 1: shoot anybody, but you had it with you. And you

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Speaker 1: know why, as a society, we are not going to

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Speaker 1: give you that chance again. We're gonna take you and

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Speaker 1: put you in jail, put the rest of your natural life.

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Speaker 1: What would you advise people to do in the event

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Speaker 1: of an active shooter if they find themselves, you know,

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Speaker 1: in a situation like we saw in Las Vegas. There

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Speaker 1: are a number of different training systems that are out there,

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Speaker 1: but most of them come down around three fundamental things

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Speaker 1: that an individual should do if they find themselves subject

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Speaker 1: to an active shooter. And the number one thing that

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Speaker 1: is recommended by in the training systems and I think

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Speaker 1: by law enforcement as well, this is on the FBI website,

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Speaker 1: is to run, at the minimum, create a moving target.

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Speaker 1: It's hard hit one that is moving than it is

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Speaker 1: to quiet wom that is just simply standing there. But

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Speaker 1: get out of there, run as fast as you can

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Speaker 1: and remove yourself from the scene. That's the number one

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Speaker 1: recommendation from all circles. Secondly, if you cannot run, perhaps

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Speaker 1: the shooter is somehow between you and you and an

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Speaker 1: egress from the building, your point of exit from the building.

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Speaker 1: If you cannot run, then you hide, hide under something,

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Speaker 1: Barricade yourself in a room, lock the doors, turn out

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Speaker 1: the lights, get furniture in front of the door, making

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Speaker 1: yourself as a flat on the floor as you can't,

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Speaker 1: and be absolutely silent and hide because maybe as the

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Speaker 1: shooter moves to the building looking for victims. Maybe he'll

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Speaker 1: miss you because you are well hidden. But then failing

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Speaker 1: that you can't run and you can't hide, or perhaps

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Speaker 1: the shoot find you. Your last option is to fight,

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Speaker 1: and by fighting, that means you offer everything you've got

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Speaker 1: to try to stop that shooter from killing you or

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Speaker 1: injuring you or someone else. At that point, it's your

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Speaker 1: life against the life of the person who's a sailing

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Speaker 1: and you throw everything you possibly have at that individual

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Speaker 1: to stop them. If you happen to be an armed citizen,

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Speaker 1: you know, someone who is authorized by your perspective state

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Speaker 1: to carry your fireing on your person, if you have

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Speaker 1: the opportunity to engage that individual with that firearm, then

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Speaker 1: you would certainly do so to try to protect yourself

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Speaker 1: and others. That's not something you want to do in

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Speaker 1: the middle of your church congregation with six hundred people

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Speaker 1: standing around, or as Philip and I've talked about in

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Speaker 1: the past, and you know, maybe crowded movie theaters or

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Speaker 1: places like that, that just limits your options because you

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Speaker 1: cannot go shooting in there, you know, and take a

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Speaker 1: chance on on missing and hitting an innocent person. You

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Speaker 1: fight for your life because your life is on the line.

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Speaker 1: You cannot legislate evil into non existence. Let's be clear

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Speaker 1: about one thing. Sworn is not a political podcast, but

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Speaker 1: we cannot forget that there are lots of people whose

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Speaker 1: opinions differ from Mike Wilkis. On the other side of

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Speaker 1: his argument. There are also those who believe that gun

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Speaker 1: restriction is truly the only way to see a definitive

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Speaker 1: decrease in these tragedies. For a differing viewpoint, we talked

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Speaker 1: to Antoine Seawright, a Democratic strategist who, like Mike Wilkie,

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Speaker 1: is from South Carolina. So just to give your background,

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Speaker 1: I'm a political consultant and one of my clients was

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Speaker 1: killed in a church two years ago here in South

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Speaker 1: Carolina is the state Senator Clemente Pinkney. And I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you remember when Dylan Ruth, the white terrorists

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Speaker 1: who killed nine people in the church here in South Carolina.

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Speaker 1: Clemented the past of the church was my client. It's

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Speaker 1: a simple thing we called the Charleston loophole. His background

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Speaker 1: check in the time period did not come back, but

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Speaker 1: they still sold him the gun. And so had there

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Speaker 1: been a law in place that says, look if the

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Speaker 1: background check does not come back within three days, then

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Speaker 1: you can't purchase a gun. Then perhaps he never would

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Speaker 1: have been able to have a gun to shoot nine people.

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Speaker 1: So my name is Antoine ce Right. I own a

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Speaker 1: public relations, advertising and political strategy firm called Blueprint Strategy,

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Speaker 1: is based here in Columbia, South Carolina. I've done from

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Speaker 1: a pain perspective. I've probably been involved in well over

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Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty campaigns and well over a hundred

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Speaker 1: ballot initiatives represent a number of political entities as well

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Speaker 1: as elected officials, from members of you guys Congress on

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Speaker 1: down to dog Catcher. I also am on Fox News

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Speaker 1: on occasion to provide some political commentary, and I have

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Speaker 1: a radio show. Can we just go straight into it

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Speaker 1: and have you explained to us your standpoint on gun

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Speaker 1: control us. Well, first of all, let me just say

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Speaker 1: my thoughts and prayers are with the families and the

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Speaker 1: community of Las Vegas, because when one of our brothers

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Speaker 1: and sisters in this country are hurting or have feel

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Speaker 1: some sort of pain, I think we all hurt. And

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Speaker 1: it's very tragic. What happened one of the largest killings

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Speaker 1: on record, and I call the massacre is very unfortunate

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Speaker 1: that the person who shot and kill these people and

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Speaker 1: injured so many others has not been labeled as a

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Speaker 1: domestic terrorist. There's another shooting, and here we are having

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Speaker 1: another conversation about gun laws. Yet some of my Republican

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Speaker 1: friends and Republican leaders say, as soon as these things happened,

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Speaker 1: not the time. Well we've had almost a week now

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Speaker 1: in between the incident and we still have not had

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Speaker 1: a legislative conversation about gun control laws. And one could

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Speaker 1: argue that, oh, well, we don't need more gun control laws.

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Speaker 1: We just need to pray for our country, or we

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Speaker 1: just need to deal with the people who have been

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Speaker 1: committing these crimes because they have mental issues, and we

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Speaker 1: can keep making excuses. But the more excuses we make,

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Speaker 1: the more people literally will die on American soul, not

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Speaker 1: by anyone from any country that Mr Trump proposes Muslim

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Speaker 1: band form, but these are homegrown American terrorists. So with

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Speaker 1: Las Vegas specifically, do you think that it could have

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Speaker 1: been prevented? Absolutely, But we have learned so far is

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Speaker 1: that one perhaps change in the law to deal with

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Speaker 1: bump stocks could have perhaps prevented this is happening. We

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Speaker 1: also spoke with Kim Alfano, a parent and GOP strategist.

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Speaker 1: She told us about a personal experience with a shooting

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Speaker 1: close to her daughter's school. Even as a representative of

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Speaker 1: the Republican Party and their candidates, she believes that there

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Speaker 1: are some modifications that could be made to existing gun

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Speaker 1: laws that might increase everyone's safety. I'm Kim Alfano. I

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Speaker 1: own a political media consulting firm on the Republican side

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Speaker 1: for twenty seven years now. I also worked in education

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Speaker 1: advocacy and education reform advocacy, criminal justice reform advocacy, and

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Speaker 1: do some types of things like that on the side

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Speaker 1: versus just candidate work and raise my daughter. Speaking of

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Speaker 1: your daughter, could you tell that story and then kind

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Speaker 1: of tied into your thoughts on gun control? When might

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Speaker 1: it was in first grade? It was shortly after Sandy Hook.

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Speaker 1: We lived in downtown Alexandria, Virginia, right outside DC. She

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Speaker 1: went to an adorable little public school. They were outside

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Speaker 1: playing on playground, and the playground is kind of It's

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Speaker 1: a very pedestrian city. It's not, you know, like being

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Speaker 1: in downtown New York. But it's also not like being

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Speaker 1: in the suburbs where the schools are kind of off

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Speaker 1: in a field. There are people walking by at all

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Speaker 1: times and cars and things, and their playgrounds sort of

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Speaker 1: fenced in by three sides, and the kindergarten and first

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Speaker 1: graders were all out on the playground at that moment,

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Speaker 1: and she happened to be back by the back part

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Speaker 1: of the fence that sort of faced the neighborhood street

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Speaker 1: and was playing on the swings and there was a

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Speaker 1: guy who had committed some crimes and was I guess

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Speaker 1: he was walking through the streets of Alexandria. Basically officer

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Speaker 1: little boy whose children had gone to Belas School, so

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Speaker 1: he was very familiar to the kids at the school.

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Speaker 1: He happened to pull this guy over and he walked

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Speaker 1: up to the car. He didn't realize this guy had

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Speaker 1: committed a crime. He wasn't looking for him. I think

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Speaker 1: he pulled him over for a traffic violation and the

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Speaker 1: guy had pulled out a gun and shot him point

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Speaker 1: blank in the head. And he was on the other

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Speaker 1: side of the car from the kids. You know, there

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Speaker 1: was basically the road the sidewalk, and the kids are

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Speaker 1: inside the fence, so some of the kids were right

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Speaker 1: up against the fence he was luckily on the other

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Speaker 1: side of the car, so they didn't see everything go down.

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Speaker 1: But basically, you know, my daughter said she heard pops

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Speaker 1: because she had her back to it. She was swinging

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Speaker 1: on the swings, and some of the kids said they

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Speaker 1: heard something, you know, heard like a bag thud. So

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Speaker 1: basically it was the officer falling down like some really

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Speaker 1: smart teachers heard it, realized what was going on, grabbed

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Speaker 1: all the kids. They all were brought inside. They were

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Speaker 1: locked down in the gym. Again, this is right after

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Speaker 1: Sandy Hook, so everybody was completely on edge anyway, locked

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Speaker 1: him down, They did the drill where they all had

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Speaker 1: to sit in the gym, and then there was an

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Speaker 1: email sent out to parents, Hey, we're locked down. Here's

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Speaker 1: the situation as we know it. And then probably about

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Speaker 1: thirty five minutes later, they realized it was an isolated incident.

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Speaker 1: They had gone to catch the guy. He fled. The

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Speaker 1: metic Metavac helicopter landed in the schoolyard to take the

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Speaker 1: police officer off to the hospital, and the kids were

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Speaker 1: out of their sort of Jim lockdown by then, so

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Speaker 1: a lot of them looked out the window and saw

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Speaker 1: that happening. They kind of didn't, you know, since such

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Speaker 1: little grades it's in elementary school, they didn't really tell

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Speaker 1: him what was going on, but a lot of kids

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Speaker 1: sort of pieced it together, and then about o'clock we

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Speaker 1: were alligable back in the level. I know hunters, I

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Speaker 1: know clients who are staunch advocates of the Second Amendment,

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Speaker 1: and I understand why they are, and I know them

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Speaker 1: to be good people. So I had never been a

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Speaker 1: huge advocate one way or another on it. But I

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Speaker 1: was never such an anti gun person. I know so

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Speaker 1: many responsible people who have guns, but when that happened,

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Speaker 1: I was terrified. Now, my my thoughts didn't run towards

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Speaker 1: why does that guy have a gun? Because it was

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Speaker 1: a you know, a gun that was it's common, It

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Speaker 1: wasn't a machine gun. He didn't shoot up the school,

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Speaker 1: he didn't do anything. But just how can this stuff

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Speaker 1: happen right near my kid? You know, what's the world

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Speaker 1: coming to? Where the suburbs and the Bucolic you know,

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Speaker 1: rolling hills of our neighborhoods are now kind of up

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Speaker 1: for grabs. In the case of Oklahoma City, in the

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Speaker 1: case of this guy that shot officer lit boy, in

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Speaker 1: the case of Sandy Hook, it was all mental health.

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Speaker 1: There are people out there that are hurting, that are

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Speaker 1: not getting help, and they go down these rabbit holes

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Speaker 1: and do not come out, and we have tragedies as

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Speaker 1: a result. I know, the guy in Las Vegas, there

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Speaker 1: wasn't any indicator that anything that that would have popped

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Speaker 1: on a background check, on mental health background check, but

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Speaker 1: clearly he's mentally unstable because he shot up a lunch

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Speaker 1: of people. So I think stronger mental health, stronger education

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Speaker 1: about spotting and understanding when people are in difficult situations,

433
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: you know, with the opioid crisis, you know, mental health

434
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,959
Speaker 1: and addiction counseling, all of that, I think is how

435
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: you answer this. It's not necessarily a gun law because

436
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: of the people who own all those guns. Everybody's freaked

437
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 1: out about don't commit crimes. You know, we hear about

438
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 1: these outrageous, sensationalized ones. But in you know, Illinois and

439
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: Chicago where there's horrifying gun violence, it's happening with illegal guns,

440
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 1: and they have strict gun laws. So gun laws don't

441
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: prevent gun crime. It's criminals and the unstable people using guns.

442
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: About Oklahoma City, somebody with a car and some fertilizer

443
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 1: killed three times as many people as occurred in you know,

444
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,680
Speaker 1: Las Vegas. Not to diminish what happened in Las Vegas,

445
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 1: but anyone with evil intent, where an unstable mind will

446
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: find a way to create a weapon. So solving this

447
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 1: or that issue. Obviously, bump stocks need to be addressed.

448
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 1: Nobody wants people out there with automatic weapons. And there's

449
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 1: some pretty common sense things, but you're not getting to

450
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: the underlying cause. How do you think we become more

451
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 1: proactive in addressing mental health issues? Where does that come

452
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: in in play when trying to purchase a firearm? I

453
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: just knee jerk reaction, as a mom would be. There

454
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 1: needs to be some sort of element of the background

455
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: check that allows for part of the process of get

456
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: I mean, if I want to be a daycare worker,

457
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 1: you do a mental health check on me, right, So

458
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: if I'm gonna have a gun, you should be able

459
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 1: to do a mental health check. I mean, now to

460
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 1: keep that record. I get how gun rights advocates are saying, no,

461
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: you can't build a database of those of us with issues,

462
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 1: So the record goes away, just like the background check

463
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 1: goes away. It doesn't get stored anywhere it doesn't get kept.

464
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 1: There's gotta be a way to at least screen out

465
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: the low hanging fruit of people who have been in

466
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: mental health treatment before, or who have been cited for

467
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 1: domestic violence, or who have been cited for any number

468
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 1: of things. Like I said, I work on education reform issues,

469
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: and I work on criminal justice for warm issues. Weal

470
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 1: there's two places right there that nip issues in the butt.

471
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 1: Kids that are caught in horrible cycles of poverty and

472
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 1: dependence and lack of a good education, so there's no

473
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 1: way for them to get out of that cycle. Those

474
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:17,919
Speaker 1: are kids that are gonna get sucked in the neighborhoods

475
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 1: and become drug dealers. Those are kids that are going

476
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: to become parts of gangs, that are going to become

477
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,239
Speaker 1: parts of violence. Let's give them the opportunity to get

478
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: out of those situations and break that cycle for their family.

479
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 1: And so the kid that's nineteen that gets picked up

480
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 1: because he has you know, drug paraphernali in his car

481
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,360
Speaker 1: and goes to prison for five years or eighteen months

482
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: or whatever it is, is in a prison for eighteen

483
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: months with a career professional drug dealer who could teach

484
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 1: them how to cook meth, And who's going to indoctrinate

485
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: him into a gang in those eighteen months, And who's

486
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 1: going to get them in the into a cycle where

487
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: someone had given him drug addiction treatment. Send him to

488
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 1: a boot camp. That kid might turn around and have

489
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: a productive life. So another place to sort of hide

490
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 1: and help you bowl just your criminal justice reform. Instead

491
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 1: of putting them into the system. Let's find ways and

492
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: treatments and and put some government money into helping people

493
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 1: with addictions and with mental health issues. I'm not sure

494
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: there's a gun law that we could have passed in

495
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: the wake of that that next day. And I think

496
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 1: anyone Republican Democrat, if you had a heart in your chest,

497
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: if someone said this is something that would stop this

498
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: from ever happening again, gun rights advocate or not, you

499
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: would have said, let's do it. But I don't think

500
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: that there was any one thing that anyone could point

501
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: to that would have said this will never happen again.

502
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: I don't know what the answer is, but I'm not

503
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 1: sure the answer is to say, you hunter in New

504
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: Hampshire can't have a gun, you know, I mean, after

505
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: all these truck deaths and like we saw in Charlotte.

506
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: So do what you say. You can't have cars? I mean,

507
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: how do you address the underlying problem by just focusing

508
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 1: on the equipment. Mason stopped by a local firearms store

509
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: to walk us through the steps of buying a gun.

510
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: If I were to come in here, I'm gonna a

511
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: bunch of the stools, shotguns, see a RS on the wall.

512
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 1: What process would it be for me to buy again?

513
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 1: All right? So, first and foremost, if you even want

514
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: to come in here and hold a gun, you got

515
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: the eighteen for a long rifle. You gotta twenty one

516
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 1: for handguns. Check your i D. Make sure you got

517
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: valid driver's license, carry permits something. If you have no

518
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: government issued i D with that current address, I can't

519
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,479
Speaker 1: even let you do that. If you want to actually

520
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: buy something, you gotta at least have a valid driver's license.

521
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: You've got to be of age, and you've gotta have

522
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: a current address on your government achieve documentation, so you

523
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: know if you have a driver's license INSE valid. Even

524
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: if you got a carry permit, if nothing's got your

525
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: current address on it, I can't sell you anything. Once

526
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: you've got all that, all that checks out. We gotta

527
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: sit you down and do some seventy three paperwork which

528
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: basically fill out you know, your name, place of birth, address,

529
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 1: all the kind of pertinent information. Are you the actual

530
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: buyer of the gun? Where you ever unlawfully and are

531
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: you wanted for a felony or you a fugitive from

532
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 1: justice where you ever dishonorably discharged. All that kind of

533
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: stuff will disqualify you just like that. On top of that,

534
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 1: if you don't have a carry permit, we have to

535
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: run a background check on you. And if that doesn't

536
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 1: come back, you can either get delayed or denied, and

537
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: you can you can just get let go, depending on

538
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: how the background check goes. But that's the part that

539
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: kills a lot of sales is someone will come in

540
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: put their background check in, it will get sent to

541
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: the FBI, and the FBI I'll be like, don't do

542
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: it right. You mentioned age, So what age is it

543
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 1: to buy a firearm. There's certain type of firearms I

544
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: can or cannot buy a certain age. At eighteen years old,

545
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: you can buy long rifles and shotguns. At years old

546
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: you can buy handguns. And that's pretty much it for age.

547
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: So in eighteen year old with the proper identification and

548
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: checks out coming here and buy an a R. The

549
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 1: problem in an eighteen year old would have to come in,

550
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: have their proper identification and have I do with their

551
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: current address and everything, have their background check go smoothly,

552
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 1: no problems, no delays, no hold ups. If everything went perfectly,

553
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: we could have them out here the same day. But

554
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: that's provided everything went perfectly. We as the sales people,

555
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: have the ultimate authority to cancel any sale. We don't

556
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: necessarily have to have a reason. It can be I'm

557
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: getting a bad vibe from this situation, I don't want

558
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: to sell this. We don't have to. We can go

559
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: to a manager and to be like, look, we're not

560
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: doing this. The big, huge red flags, some of the

561
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: really obvious ones are if somebody comes into the store

562
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: and gives money to somebody else and that person is

563
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 1: buying the gun. So as a as a gun a salesman,

564
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: you would say, how do you advise to do the

565
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: best sale to make sure you're putting a gun in

566
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 1: the right person's hands. As a gun salesman, it's pretty

567
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 1: much just gauge whether the person knows what they're talking about,

568
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: if they seem inexperienced, if they don't seem to really

569
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: know what they're doing. They're like, have you ever shot

570
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: a gun before? Do you have much practice? Do you

571
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: go to the range very often? And if the answers

572
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: to any of those questions are, hey, no, I don't

573
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 1: really know what I'm doing. You know, Georgia Firing Line

574
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: is right down the road. They're building a complex right

575
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: across the street. There's Wild West Traders in Austell. No

576
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: matter where people are coming from, I can generally say,

577
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: there's a range near you, and they offer rental guns,

578
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: so go out there rent a gun. You know, they

579
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: offer safety courses as well. Like my dad works over

580
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: a while West Traders in Austell and he teaches safety

581
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 1: courses there. So I can say, hey, sit down with

582
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: these people and now at least give you a rundown

583
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 1: of what you need to know. But here it's like, look,

584
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: we're selling guns, so we have to make sure it's

585
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: done safely, that we go through the proper channels, and

586
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: that we avoid any bad situations. Mason asked if it

587
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 1: is anywhere difficult to bind a R versus afore ten.

588
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: The man said, besides cost, no, you just need to

589
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: be a teen. To give some perspective, in this country,

590
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: you have to be twenty one to drink, but at

591
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: eighteen you can walk around with an air in public.

592
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 1: Even with current regulations, it turns out it is pretty

593
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: easy to purchase. Again, probably easier than it should be.

594
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: One debate that has surfaced since the massacre in Las

595
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: Vegas is what do we label this? Is this an

596
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:12,320
Speaker 1: act of terrorism domestic terrorism? What exactly is the difference.

597
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: We discussed this topic and more with Rebecca Grant, highly

598
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: experienced national security and military analyst. My name is Rebecca Grant.

599
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 1: I have a PhD and international relations. I'm a national

600
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 1: security analyst and defense consultants here in Washington, d C.

601
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: After an incident like this, the first question in people's

602
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 1: minds could there be any link to known terrorist groups?

603
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: So one of the first questions is they begin to

604
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 1: identify a perpetrator is to look and see in this case,

605
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 1: were there any links to ISAIS a lot of confusion

606
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 1: occurred when ISIS decided to take advantage and claim that

607
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: they had been responsible in some way for this event.

608
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 1: There's done no corroboration of that. That was just the

609
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: terrorist being very very opportunistic. So right now we have

610
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: not heard of any ties between Haddock and a designated

611
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 1: terrorist group, or at least a designated international terrorist group.

612
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 1: And the crazy thing was that ISAIS had issued one

613
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 1: of its periodic warnings a few days before this took place,

614
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 1: saying that citizens in big cities of the world Paris,

615
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, etcetera. Should really take cover and not go

616
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 1: out in public. So that non specific warning had popped up,

617
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 1: and I think for some people there was an immediate

618
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: question of, oh my gosh, was this link? Was there

619
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: a warning? And then was this the link? You know.

620
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: The other thing that was terribly similar, of course, was

621
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,919
Speaker 1: the attack in Las Vegas and the attacks several months

622
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 1: earlier this year in Manchester where we saw a concert

623
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,760
Speaker 1: as of target. So I think there were enough superficial

624
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:02,720
Speaker 1: similarities to raise but right now we're just not seeing

625
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:09,760
Speaker 1: anything that definitively links Paddock to a radical Islamic group

626
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 1: of any kind. The main definition of terrorism is a

627
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: lawful force and violence terrorist act, but it has to

628
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: have a purpose to it to intimidate or coerce the

629
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 1: government or the civilian population or any segment thereof. So

630
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: we think of terrorism as part of a cause very evil,

631
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: very bad, but that it has to have this political

632
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: objective attached to it. So under the strict definition, it

633
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,879
Speaker 1: doesn't look like the Las Vegas incident is an act

634
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,320
Speaker 1: of terrorism strictly defined. Now, does that mean it's not

635
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 1: horrible and terrifying? Oh my gosh, it was absolutely terrifying.

636
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 1: The Las Vegas shooting doesn't meet the strict definition of

637
00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 1: terrorism because there's not that political element to it. So

638
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: the Las Vegas shooter fits a little bit better into

639
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:09,320
Speaker 1: a kind of a subcategory of domestic terrorists. And to me,

640
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: they would include people like Eric Rudolph with the bombings,

641
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 1: individuals who are carrying out horrible acts of violence but

642
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 1: without that attachment to an international group or a big

643
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:29,760
Speaker 1: political movement. Now, our government has tracked what we sometimes

644
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 1: call homegrown terrorists for a long time, you know. Another

645
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 1: big example, of course, is Timothy McVey in the Oklahoma

646
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: City bombings, which were very, very tragic. In some cases,

647
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: these individuals have a political agenda of their own, They've

648
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: made statements in some cases they have it. So these

649
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 1: lone wolf domestic terrorists are particularly hard to track unless

650
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 1: they meet some of the profile criteria that look for.

651
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,280
Speaker 1: We've been using a set of profile criteria to watch

652
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 1: kind of homegrowner domestic terrorist candidates for quite a long time.

653
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,280
Speaker 1: But when like Stephen Paddock, they really don't fit that profile,

654
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: it's hard to figure out what they're up to, and

655
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 1: it's hard to really know how to classify the terrible

656
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 1: deeds that they've done. For many years now, part of

657
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: the study of terrorism has been to try to figure

658
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:27,879
Speaker 1: out why individuals decide to commit these acts of terror,

659
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: and in that study, there is extensive study of people

660
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: within the United States who meet a certain profile. The

661
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: typical profile and you'll find us in any of the

662
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: academic literature would be someone who has had access to firearms,

663
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 1: someone who's had military training, someone who lives in isolated life,

664
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 1: someone who may have had relatives or close associates involved

665
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:58,720
Speaker 1: in terrorist acts or incarcerated. Their number of profile elements

666
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: that have been used for many years to try to

667
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 1: spotlight individuals within certain social groups in the US who

668
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 1: may be heading towards committing an act of violence. I

669
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: think the profile has been pretty useful in helping law

670
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: enforcement keep watch. Particularly let's say if you have a

671
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 1: radical group, you know radicals of Maryland. What was so

672
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 1: tragic and heartbreaking with the Las Vegas shooter was he

673
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,799
Speaker 1: really didn't meet any of that profile that has been

674
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 1: helpful in the past. He was older, he was financially

675
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 1: well off, and there was nothing in his background that

676
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 1: was going to trip this profile. He owned a lot

677
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 1: of guns, which means he had passed multiple background checks,

678
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 1: and what is so scary about him was that he

679
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 1: didn't match that profile which has been new successfully in

680
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 1: other cases. Like everyone else, I'm desperate to find a

681
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 1: reason why this happened, and we want to find a

682
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: reason so we can work to prevent it in the future.

683
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 1: When we don't have that reason, I think it's doubly painful.

684
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 1: Not only is it a senseless act, but we don't

685
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 1: know what steps we might be able to take in

686
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: the future to make sure things like this don't happen again.

687
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 1: So my view is that unless we get more evidence

688
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: that hasn't come forth yet. You know, he wanted to

689
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 1: go out in a blaze of glory. It was very

690
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 1: personal to him. Some have said he had become mentally

691
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 1: ill over time. There may be an element there, but

692
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 1: he's going to turn out to be just a unique

693
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,839
Speaker 1: force of evil that sprang up and committed this terrible act.

694
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: I don't see connection to a terrorist group. I don't

695
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 1: think that his horrible act means that there's something wrong

696
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 1: with our country or with American culture in general. He's

697
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:49,800
Speaker 1: going to turn out to be just one of those evil,

698
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 1: evil people. We used to call it the work of

699
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: the devil, and I think he's going to turn out

700
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 1: to be just one lone evil man. Could this has

701
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 1: been prevented, No, I think Stephen Paddock was determined to

702
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: create a horrible incident of violence. He had the guns,

703
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 1: he had planned very carefully. Some reports have said he

704
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:14,800
Speaker 1: had ammonium nitrate in his car. That says to me

705
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 1: he was going to carry out the fact one way

706
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 1: or another. Well, I would guarantee there have already been

707
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: changes on the Las Vegas strip. You know, Las Vegas

708
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 1: is a tightly regulated environment, and it works partly because

709
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 1: there is a sense of freedom and security. I think,

710
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: you know, a casino four in Las Vegas is probably

711
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: one of the safest places in the world. So I'm

712
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,760
Speaker 1: sure that the casino owners, the businessman of Las Vegas,

713
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 1: and the state of Nevada will be working hard to

714
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 1: try to make the Vegas much more secure. Something that

715
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:52,360
Speaker 1: they can do possibly may include some additional aerial surveillance.

716
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,359
Speaker 1: Their technology is available for that. I'm sure that all

717
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,720
Speaker 1: the casino owners are looking through their databases of people

718
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 1: that they keep track go because their guests and you know,

719
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:05,320
Speaker 1: high rollers coming in. I think that those specialists in

720
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 1: security will be doing everything they can in Las Vegas

721
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 1: and other popular tourist destinations. I wouldn't be surprised to

722
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 1: see Atlantic City thinking about it. You know, even Florida,

723
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 1: some of the big destinations there. There's already a lot

724
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,359
Speaker 1: of behind the scene security, and I think that's where

725
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: we'll see people really studying the lessons of Las Vegas

726
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 1: and moving forward to try to help crowds and gatherings

727
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 1: be safer in the future. You know, whatever you think

728
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: about Las Vegas, one lesson really stands out to me.

729
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 1: That is, there's nothing wrong with American culture. We don't

730
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 1: need to have a big discussion about American culture. This

731
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 1: was the act of one evil man. So there's nothing

732
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 1: wrong with American culture, and we're barking up the wrong

733
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 1: tree if we try to pursue it that way. This

734
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,879
Speaker 1: podcast is not a political podcast. And we're not here

735
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 1: to settle the gun control debate. This is a podcast, however,

736
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 1: about the criminal justice system, and the tragedy in Las

737
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:08,760
Speaker 1: Vegas was a crime. By way of background, I wanted

738
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:12,479
Speaker 1: to clear up a common misconception about the Bill of Rights.

739
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,919
Speaker 1: It's the first ten amendments to our Constitution. You see.

740
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: The Bill of Rights doesn't grant any particular right to anybody.

741
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 1: The Bill of Rights serves as a limit on the

742
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: power of the government versus the people. So what the

743
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: real issue in all of this discussion is to what

744
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:36,320
Speaker 1: length does our government have the authority to regulate our rights,

745
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: including our Second Amendment rights. Surprisingly, there was not a

746
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 1: lot of case law from the U. S. Supreme Court

747
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 1: pertaining to the Second Amendment until two thousand and eight,

748
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:49,320
Speaker 1: when the Court decided a case called District of Columbia

749
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 1: versus Heller. Before we get into Heller, it's important to

750
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: understand that when interpreting the Constitution, it's not what the

751
00:43:56,640 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 1: Constitution says that matters. It's what the Supreme Court says

752
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: that it means is what matters. The text of the

753
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 1: Second Amendment says a well regulated militia comma being necessary

754
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 1: to the security of a free state comma. The right

755
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 1: of the people to keep and bear arms comma shall

756
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 1: not be infringed, period. So DC versus Heller is a

757
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,800
Speaker 1: landmark case where the U. S. Supreme Court decided on

758
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 1: June two thousand and eight by a five to four majority,

759
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 1: that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual right to possess

760
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: firearms and that right has nothing to do with serving

761
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 1: in any state militia. Further, it clarifies the right extends

762
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 1: to the use of firearms for traditionally lawful purposes, including

763
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 1: the ancient right of self defense. The Heller case started

764
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 1: because the District of Columbia, by local law, banned handgun

765
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 1: possession and made it a crime to carry an unregistered firearm,

766
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 1: and it also prohibited the registration of handguns altogether in

767
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 1: d C. D C law also said that no person

768
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,799
Speaker 1: may carry an unlicensed handgun, but it authorizes the chief

769
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:10,320
Speaker 1: of police to issue one year licenses. Additionally, it required

770
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 1: residents to keep lawfully owned firearms unloaded and disassembled or

771
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:19,240
Speaker 1: bound by a trigger lock or a similar device. Heller

772
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 1: was a d C Special policeman. He applied to register

773
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 1: a handgun that he wished to keep it home, but

774
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 1: the district refused, so he filed a lawsuit in the

775
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:31,720
Speaker 1: Federal Court in d C. On Second Amendment grounds, asking

776
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 1: the court to prohibit the city from enforcing these laws.

777
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 1: Up until this point, a lot of scholars and even

778
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 1: courts interpreted the Second Amendment to be limited by the

779
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 1: very first few words, which say a well regulated militia

780
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 1: being necessary to the security of a free state. But

781
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court said in the Heller opinion that the

782
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 1: operative cause was the right of the people to keep

783
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: in bear arms shall not be infringed. And they said

784
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:04,320
Speaker 1: that codifies individual right, a right that existed long before

785
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 1: the Constitution was written, and a right that exists in nature.

786
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 1: The Court said that the preamble, the part about a

787
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: well regulated militia was simply an expression of the framer's

788
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 1: belief that the most effective way to destroy a citizens

789
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 1: militia was to disarm the citizens, which is exactly what

790
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,840
Speaker 1: the British attempted to do at the battles of Lexington

791
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 1: and Concord at the very beginning of the American Revolution.

792
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 1: Justice Scalia, writing the opinion in Heller, tells us, though,

793
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:37,440
Speaker 1: that like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited.

794
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 1: For example, there's not a right to keep and carry

795
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 1: any weapon or gun whatsoever, in any manner, whatsoever, or

796
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:47,840
Speaker 1: for whatever purpose. Also, the court's opinions should not be

797
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 1: taken to cast doubt on long standing prohibitions on the

798
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 1: possession of firearms by felons or the mentally ill, or

799
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 1: laws forbidding the carrying of firearms and sensitive places such

800
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 1: as rules and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and

801
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 1: qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. As a rule,

802
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 1: rights do not require any government issued license for a

803
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,760
Speaker 1: person to exercise that right, as opposed to a privilege.

804
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 1: Privileges are granted by the government unlike rights, so privileges

805
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 1: frequently do require a license, such as a license, for example,

806
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 1: to drive a car. So from a purely legal perspective,

807
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 1: what is the bottom line? Well, in light of the

808
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: Heller case, it's clear that while guns can be regulated

809
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 1: to a point, I can't think of any new law

810
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,439
Speaker 1: or any new regulation that would have prevented the Las

811
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:43,839
Speaker 1: Vegas massacre. I think it's also clear that the bump

812
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 1: stock device which the shooter used to increase his rate

813
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 1: of fire, could legally be outlawed tomorrow. But it's important

814
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:54,799
Speaker 1: to remember the bump stock device is nothing more than

815
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 1: a commercially sold aftermarket device, and that device is not

816
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 1: needed for a shooter to achieve the same or similar

817
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 1: result using homemade means. The bottom line is that nobody

818
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 1: has a crystal ball. The future cannot be predicted. A

819
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 1: determined killer will find a way to kill, whether it

820
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:17,719
Speaker 1: be with a gun, twenty guns, a box truck, a

821
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 1: homemade bomb, or whatever the evil mind can conceive. To

822
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 1: make the USA truly safe from gun violence, you have

823
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,919
Speaker 1: to basically take away or get around somehow the Second Amendment. First,

824
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,360
Speaker 1: Then you'd have to confiscate all of the guns, and

825
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 1: if you did that, you'd be violating the Fourth Amendment,

826
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 1: which protects citizens against unreasonable searches and seizures by the government.

827
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 1: Then you'd have to get around the due process clause

828
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 1: of the Fifth Amendment, and the list goes on and

829
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 1: on and on. By the time you're done, that really

830
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 1: wouldn't be much of a bill of rights left. And

831
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 1: that is what Justice Scalia, writing for the Court in Heller,

832
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 1: would call tyranny. And if that were to happen, the

833
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,800
Speaker 1: only people who would have the guns would be the

834
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 1: folks in the government, and that is why the United

835
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 1: States exists today, because an armed citizenry took up arms

836
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 1: against an oppressive government when the British first tried to

837
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: confiscate guns at the battles of Lexington and Concord. As

838
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,720
Speaker 1: of the time of this recording, there's no known motive

839
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,360
Speaker 1: that can be attributed to the Las Vegas murder, and

840
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 1: so we really don't know if there was any intention

841
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 1: to influence any kind of policy. So was it terrorism

842
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 1: or was it just a lone mad men In the

843
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 1: absence of any evidence that the shooter was using this

844
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 1: violence to intimidate or coerce some type of policy change,

845
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 1: my belief is that it was simply the work of

846
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 1: a madman. But that's just my opinion. Many other people

847
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 1: have other thoughts about this. We know that the Islamic

848
00:49:56,280 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 1: State has claimed credit for it, but according to the FBI,

849
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 1: there's no credible evidence that this was actually related to

850
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:10,400
Speaker 1: international Islamic terrorism. We extend our most sincere condolences to

851
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 1: the families of the victims in the Las Vegas massacre.

852
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 1: It is our sincere hope and wish that those injured

853
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 1: will recover as much and as fast as possible. We

854
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:26,319
Speaker 1: hope that law enforcement can figure out just what motivated

855
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:30,840
Speaker 1: this evil mind to commit this most heinous of atrocities,

856
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 1: so that they can better prepare in the future to

857
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 1: respond to any criminal act. Sworn is produced by Tenderfoot

858
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:57,280
Speaker 1: TV in Atlanta. Story and production by Payne Lindsay, Mason

859
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:02,400
Speaker 1: Lindsay and Meredith Steadman and myself Philip Halloway executive producers

860
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:05,879
Speaker 1: Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay. And if you have it yet,

861
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 1: please check out our sister podcast, Up and Vantage, that

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Speaker 1: follows the investigation into the disappearance of Georgia High School

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00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 1: teacher and beauty queen Tara Grinstead. Up and Vantage is

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Speaker 1: available now on Apple Podcasts. Sworn is mixed and mastered

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Speaker 1: by Resonate Recordings. If you're in the market for podcast production,

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Speaker 1: go to Resonate Recordings dot com to get your first

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Speaker 1: episode produced for free. If you haven't already, please head

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Speaker 1: over to iTunes now to subscribe, rate, and review Sworn,

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Speaker 1: and make sure you check us out online at Sworn

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Speaker 1: podcast dot com and follow us on social media at

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00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 1: Sworn podcast on Twitter and Instagram, and you can follow

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Speaker 1: me your host, Philip Holloway at phil holloway e s

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Speaker 1: Q on Twitter. Thanks for listening. This is Philip Halloway

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00:51:51,000 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 1: and I'll see you next time. On Sworn and Lundy

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00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 1: and Rusty was see I See Blood in the Water. Charming, charming,

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00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:18,840
Speaker 1: See Blood in the Water.