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Speaker 1: He is red hot, tied at one seven eighteen seconds,

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Speaker 1: ten seconds ago.

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Speaker 2: In the history of the NBA, perhaps few teams are

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Speaker 2: as underappreciated as the Detroit Pistons of the late eighties

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Speaker 2: and early nineties. Catch go, I'll the Christians win. If

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Speaker 2: you were in Detroit you loved them. Anywhere else you

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Speaker 2: love to hate them.

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Speaker 3: Hevy four a second block, go down and birds and

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Speaker 3: le Beer co at it.

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Speaker 2: A tough as nails win at any cost. Team as

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Speaker 2: gritty as the city they called home.

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Speaker 4: You talk closes to within seven and sixty six fifty nine.

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Speaker 4: Lamber high streeting or.

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Speaker 2: Isaiah physical, intimidating and brilliant?

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Speaker 3: Is Isaiah Rottet.

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Speaker 4: Up off the high glass and there you gotta love

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Speaker 4: that sweet shot.

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Speaker 2: I clocked a lot of time chronicling those Pistons. In

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty nine, I had left Charlotte to take an

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Speaker 2: anchor job at CNN Sports. At the time, that was

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Speaker 2: ESPN's biggest rival. The cable networks competed, especially on our

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Speaker 2: nightly sports shows. I was hired to replace Dan Patrick,

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Speaker 2: who had just left for ESPN. Of the seventy eight

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Speaker 2: employees working at CNN Sports at the time, there were

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Speaker 2: three women, and I was the first ever to work

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Speaker 2: on air.

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Speaker 5: This was one big, gigantic male locker room mentality, and

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Speaker 5: there literally was not a single woman other than you.

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Speaker 5: There was a couple producers maybe, but I remember you'd

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Speaker 5: be sitting in our cubic bowle writing her show or whatever,

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Speaker 5: and then I could hear Hannah on her high heels

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Speaker 5: coming down coming down the hallway through the door the hallway,

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Speaker 5: and she looked great. She always dressed nice. And these

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Speaker 5: other clowns were like in tennis shoes, like washing their

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Speaker 5: hair in the sink before they went on.

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Speaker 2: That's true, yeah.

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Speaker 5: And that's a true story. John Frickey used to do.

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Speaker 5: He probably some of you might remember the name John Friggie.

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Speaker 5: But Hannah would come in and everybody be like, there

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Speaker 5: she is. It was almost like this is such a

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Speaker 5: departure from the rest of these guys that are hanging out.

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Speaker 2: That job helped make my career. It put me on

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Speaker 2: the national stage covering big events, and on a personal

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Speaker 2: level it was even more significant. CNN is where I

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Speaker 2: met my husband of thirty years, Dan Hicks. My mom

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Speaker 2: called and she said, somebody from Sea and Sand Sports

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Speaker 2: left a message I was like, sand Sports, that doesn't

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Speaker 2: make sense. So I called and it was you know,

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Speaker 2: I called like the number and it was CNN Sports.

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh cool, And you know, I kind

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Speaker 2: of got my really big break having worked in Charlotte

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Speaker 2: and getting hired as an anchor at CNN. And then

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Speaker 2: along came how much later, Dan? Month? A month later,

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Speaker 2: along came Dan Hicks Arizona.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, from the small podunk town out of the desert,

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Speaker 5: going to the big city of Atlanta, going up to

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Speaker 5: the CNN Sports level at CNN Center in the big

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Speaker 5: time elevator doors open, and who other than my future

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Speaker 5: wife appears on the other side of the doors as

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Speaker 5: they open up, And I knew who she was because

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Speaker 5: I've been watching from Tucson, Arizona for a month before

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Speaker 5: I got to CNN. So I said hey. Hannah said hey,

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Speaker 5: and I said, I'm Dan Hicks.

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Speaker 6: I'm the new guy.

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Speaker 5: Oh Hi, here's the makeup room. I'll show you around.

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Speaker 5: So Hannah was my first good pal. Little did I

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Speaker 5: know what it would lead to three kids in a

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Speaker 5: history of a life together.

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Speaker 2: Dan became my best friend. Our desks we're side by side,

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Speaker 2: and we were paired together for many two thirty am

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Speaker 2: studio shows. He used to sing his favorite Frank Sinatra

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Speaker 2: to stay awake because oftentimes it felt like we worked

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Speaker 2: twenty four to seven.

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Speaker 5: ESPN had a lot bigger budget than we had, a

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Speaker 5: lot more people, a lot more firepower, but we were

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Speaker 5: like the little engine that could, and we kind of

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Speaker 5: modeled ourselves. But I know you hand to remember this

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Speaker 5: talking with Bill mcphiale, our president of CN in sports,

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Speaker 5: who was the former CBS president for twenty years, and

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Speaker 5: we were like the sports illustrated of Cable Sports Network

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Speaker 5: in the early days. So we kind of had our

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Speaker 5: own little style of half hour that we kind of

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Speaker 5: modeled after that kind of hit all the sports every night.

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Speaker 5: But yeah, I mean it was the only game in town.

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Speaker 5: And when we went out of the road, we saw

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Speaker 5: all these ESPN people and with all of their cadre

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Speaker 5: of personnel that they brought with him, and we were like,

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Speaker 5: all right, how are we going to do this with

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Speaker 5: three people? But that was the CNN. Those are the

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Speaker 5: CNN days, and we made a lot out of not

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Speaker 5: a lot.

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Speaker 2: Just to illustrate your point, I remember at one point

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Speaker 2: you covered two Bowl games in one day, all by yourself.

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Speaker 5: Yes, Like Dan, I was a college football beat reporter,

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Speaker 5: so my job was to cover the postseason of the

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Speaker 5: college bowl season. And so they said, yeah, we don't

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Speaker 5: need to send another person to the Citrus Bowl. Dan's

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Speaker 5: already covering the Orige Bowl. He could do both in

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Speaker 5: one day. We kind of took it as a challenge,

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Speaker 5: but that was the mentality back then of the little

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Speaker 5: scene in sports engine that could. So I was at

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Speaker 5: two bowl games and one day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, with one producer and one camera.

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Speaker 5: We drove like a bat out at hell, from Orlando,

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Speaker 5: which is the site of the Citrus Bowl, to Miami,

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Speaker 5: and it was like NonStop chaos and live shots. But

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Speaker 5: it was we had a certain the camaraderie at CNN

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Speaker 5: I think was built up because of all those challenges

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Speaker 5: that we had and all those obstacles that we had

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Speaker 5: to overcome the produce what we did.

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Speaker 2: In the midst of that grind, we had a great time.

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Speaker 5: And don't forget the two thirty a m. Eastern Time

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Speaker 5: studio shows that you and I were at anchor And

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Speaker 5: at three o'clock in the morning looking for a place

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Speaker 5: to go. It'd either be a subway grinder, sandwich at

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Speaker 5: three point fifteen in the morning, or if we were

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Speaker 5: really filling up to it, a trip to our favorite hat,

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Speaker 5: the Highland tap Down in the Virginia Highlands area of Atlanta.

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Speaker 5: So those are the good old days at three o'clock

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Speaker 5: in the morning, CNN.

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Speaker 2: Time, CNN and subway. Name two better locations for a

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Speaker 2: budding romance, I dare you. One of the things we

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Speaker 2: had in common, of course, was our love of sports.

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Speaker 2: While we were at CNN, the Pistons were having their heyday.

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Speaker 2: You know, a lot of people obviously they know about

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Speaker 2: the Bulls and blah blah blah, but I don't think

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Speaker 2: they remember how hard it was for the Bulls to

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Speaker 2: break through and get past the Pistons. Yeah, they were

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Speaker 2: the roadblock for Chicago.

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Speaker 7: Shoot two Mars against Jordan's spins in turns, fakes, lean

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Speaker 7: in shut got it?

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Speaker 8: What a bucket bike?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, I mean the Pistons. I remember looking up, you know,

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Speaker 5: in that scene in Sports Late Night's eleven o'clock show,

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Speaker 5: whether we're do that show or the two thirty show,

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Speaker 5: it seemed like every time I looked up in the playoffs,

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Speaker 5: Bill Lambert had somebody else in a choke hold. I mean,

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Speaker 5: it was like crazy stuff.

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Speaker 9: Upset at Lambert had been for a long time.

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Speaker 5: I mean that the Bulls were aggressive, but this was

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Speaker 5: good guys against the villains. And we say in sports

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Speaker 5: you kind of need that dynamic for the public and

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Speaker 5: the ratings to go crazy, and that's exactly what it was.

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Speaker 5: So if you were going to get to the title,

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Speaker 5: like Jordan and those guys had to do, they had

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Speaker 5: to get through the Bad Boys.

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Speaker 2: If this was a sports movie, the Pistons would be

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Speaker 2: cast as the villains. The Pistons dominated during what many

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Speaker 2: consider the golden era of basketball. The Celtics, the Bulls,

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Speaker 2: the Showtime Lakers. They beat them all. From the NBA

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Speaker 2: and iHeart podcast This is NBA DNS It was Me

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Speaker 2: Hannah Store Episode five.

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Speaker 7: The Bad Boys.

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Speaker 4: Warm lobs the Bill Lambert outside a hand off the

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Speaker 4: Joe four seconds three down the lane to.

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Speaker 10: The whole of.

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Speaker 2: The Motor City. Bad Boys got their start, like most

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Speaker 2: rebels do, as a challenge to the status quo.

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Speaker 4: The Celtics six seventy six, seventy four forty five to

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Speaker 4: play third quarter.

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Speaker 8: Christ's Gotta be careful.

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Speaker 2: The iconic eighties Pistons team was the brainchild of an

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Speaker 2: executive named Jack McCloskey, known league wide as Trader Jack.

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Speaker 2: His goal was to build a roster good enough to

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Speaker 2: challenge the mighty Boston Celtics. The best part he actually succeeded.

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Speaker 4: Kelly up Top to Lambert backed, Isaiah Deep Cruden, Olborray

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Speaker 4: Williams beautiful avert.

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Speaker 2: Trader Jack became the Pistons general manager in nineteen seventy nine.

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Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty one, he would draft the nucleus of

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Speaker 2: the franchise for years to come. Isaiah Thomas, a point

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Speaker 2: guard out of Indiana, but.

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Speaker 4: Isaiah one a the sep in the paint for the

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Speaker 4: ten footer. It drops a huge hoop for Isaiah one

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Speaker 4: O seven one oh three.

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Speaker 2: Bill Lambier came soon after McCluskey gave up valuable draft

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Speaker 2: picks for the Cavaliers to get him. He liked the

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Speaker 2: six foot eleven centers toughness and.

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Speaker 4: Hustle fakes it to Lambvier baseline height.

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Speaker 2: Turns that pick up from there. Vinnie Johnson the microwave,

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Speaker 2: became a clutch six man big man. Rick Mahorn arrived

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Speaker 2: in eighty five. Blue collar hero Joe Dumars in eighty six,

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Speaker 2: and a few years after that, seven foot power forward

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Speaker 2: John s Ider Sally came along.

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Speaker 3: Sally what a pint point.

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Speaker 2: To say. By nineteen eighty nine, they were the team

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Speaker 2: to beat. During my time at CNN Sports, we did

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Speaker 2: features on the most talked about athletes of the day.

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Speaker 2: I went to Detroit to interview Isaiah Thomas.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Isaiah, let's see what we got all the way up.

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Speaker 2: I think that you were really ahead of your time

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Speaker 2: in a way that we see manifested now. I remember

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Speaker 2: going to do a feature on you and Detroit and

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Speaker 2: it was all about basketball, and you said, I don't

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Speaker 2: even know how this came up, but you're like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I own a paper company.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I was like, you own a paper was it called Jiffy?

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Speaker 6: American Speedy Printing?

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Speaker 2: Oh, Speedy printing? American Speedy Printing. And you were the

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Speaker 2: first athlete that I had met that had a whole

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Speaker 2: entire another business. And it's a thing that you know,

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Speaker 2: we see more of now. We see a lot of

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Speaker 2: people diversifying and so forth. But you literally like were

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Speaker 2: ahead of the curve that way. What was it that

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Speaker 2: you felt compelled to get involved in business and also

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Speaker 2: invest in a local business while you were playing.

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Speaker 6: You know that my father and my mother and growing

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Speaker 6: up on the West Side of Chicago had such an

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Speaker 6: impact and influence on me about being independent and getting

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Speaker 6: your own and having your own And then, fortunately enough,

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Speaker 6: I had two business mentors in Detroit. One of them

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Speaker 6: name was Rick innotone who introduced me to a gentleman

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Speaker 6: by the name of Steve Balmer.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, Steve Balmer. Yeah, holy cow, came home NBA owner. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's crazy.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and so American Speedy Printing. It was a franchise

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Speaker 6: business and Rick in the tone, you know, was talking

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Speaker 6: about taking technol and infusing it into old mom and

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Speaker 6: pop printing business. And you know, we did all right

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Speaker 6: in that business, and fortunately we got out of it

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Speaker 6: at the right time because there was a company that

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Speaker 6: came along called Kinko's. I've heard of that, yes, you know,

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Speaker 6: and so you know so and I think I was

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Speaker 6: on the cover of Forbes magazine with a laptop computer

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Speaker 6: and I was the first NBA player to be on

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Speaker 6: the cover of Forbes magazine.

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Speaker 2: Isaiah or Zeke to many fans, would later become one

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Speaker 2: of my on air partners as an analyst. When I

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Speaker 2: hosted Double and triple headers on the NBA on NBC.

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Speaker 6: The first time about going to get pizza, I'm starving, okay,

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Speaker 6: and I'm thinking, okay, I'm gonna eat, Like she's gonna

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Speaker 6: get one piece and I'm gonna get the rest.

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Speaker 2: No, not at all. No, I'm like, I'm.

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Speaker 6: Like, heady, you could really eat, you could throw down.

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Speaker 2: That's so true.

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Speaker 6: I mean I was like all on our face and

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Speaker 6: you're like grubbing up, like all right, this is my

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Speaker 6: this is my kind of day.

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Speaker 2: During those long shifts on NBC, Isaiah would talk about

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Speaker 2: his childhood on Chicago's West Side as the youngest of

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Speaker 2: nine children. To hear him tell it, it was a

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Speaker 2: world of uncertainty. Basketball was his constant.

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Speaker 6: By the time I was fourteen, I had moved seven

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Speaker 6: times and had gone to one to four grade schools.

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Speaker 6: And back then they were setting you out, you know,

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Speaker 6: if you couldn't pay the rent right they would just

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Speaker 6: come and take your furniture and put it outside. So

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Speaker 6: we got set out several times, and you know, Mom

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Speaker 6: always found a way. But popcorn and candy, those are

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Speaker 6: the things that you that you ate. That was like dinner.

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Speaker 6: Mom would like, you know, gets some unpop popcorn, and

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Speaker 6: I still cook popcorn today. That's still like one of

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Speaker 6: my favorite foods. That's just what I ate. I just

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Speaker 6: ate candy and popcorn. That's that's how I got along.

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Speaker 6: And unfortunately, I say this now, it was easy to

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Speaker 6: kind of steal the Snickers bars because they can fit

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Speaker 6: easily in your frock and you can walk out of

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Speaker 6: the store with them.

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Speaker 2: Well, I remember you saying that at times, like you

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Speaker 2: were like, well, I didn't really have a bedroom because

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Speaker 2: my I just slept in the.

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Speaker 6: Closet, slept in the closet, slept on the ironing board.

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Speaker 6: When I was smaller, I slept on the ironing board.

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Speaker 6: And we didn't have much you know there. There wasn't

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Speaker 6: a lot of beds or you know, well my sister,

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Speaker 6: my sister always had a big bed in the bedroom.

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Speaker 11: The boys we were just kind of like, you know,

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Speaker 11: wherever you lay your head, that's where you wake up,

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Speaker 11: you know tonight. You know, it's like and and my

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Speaker 11: mom always she always would let you know, random people

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Speaker 11: come in the house.

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Speaker 6: You know, the doors were just always open, so you

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Speaker 6: would wake up and you know one of your friends,

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Speaker 6: like you know, was down the hall, like you know,

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Speaker 6: sleeping on the floor, and you would be like, hey man,

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Speaker 6: how did you get it? It's like, oh man, you

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Speaker 6: ready to go to school. I'm like, all right, you know,

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Speaker 6: but it was it was tough times, but there was

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Speaker 6: a lot of love in the house. My mom always

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Speaker 6: kept us, you know, singing and listening to music. She

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Speaker 6: found a way to keep us happy and as healthy

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Speaker 6: as possible.

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Speaker 2: And when did you become interested in basketball? How did

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Speaker 2: that come about? How old were you?

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Speaker 6: My older brothers they all played on basketball teams, and

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Speaker 6: we didn't have babysitters, so I always had to go

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Speaker 6: with them wherever they went. You know. I was either

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Speaker 6: i would be the water boy or the ball boy,

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Speaker 6: and I'm just watching them dribble, watching them do their thing.

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Speaker 6: I would imitate them and then imitating them. I learned

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Speaker 6: how to play, you know. I started playing when I

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Speaker 6: was probably about like three years old. But I never

294
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Speaker 6: looked at it like I'm trying to get to the NBA,

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Speaker 6: because remember back then, the NBA wasn't even a television right,

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Speaker 6: you know, I just want to be like my older brothers.

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Speaker 6: And it's funny like with my with my family now,

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Speaker 6: we still sting some of my brother's old warm up songs,

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Speaker 6: and one of them was up on the roof, Hey,

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Speaker 6: one hundred proof, Hey, I got some bodka.

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Speaker 12: Hey you said my locker pes, Hey Johnny Walker red.

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Speaker 13: Right.

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Speaker 2: So those were like the you're three years old by

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Speaker 2: the way, singing this right.

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Speaker 6: We had one about white Port and kool aid.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, man. And then so here you are, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and it's the seventies, right, and you're in playing in

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Speaker 2: Chicago and you become this star. Where did that journey begin?

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Speaker 2: Where you went from like a little kid times tagging

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Speaker 2: along with your brothers to being like really really special.

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Speaker 6: And it happened really kind of overnight. I went to

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Speaker 6: Saint Joseph High School and I met mister Pingutore. He

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Speaker 6: became my coach and my mentor, and he was it

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Speaker 6: was a tough minded, tough coach. And you know, I

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Speaker 6: had learned the fundamentals of the game from my brothers,

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Speaker 6: but what he was able to instill in continue teaching.

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Speaker 6: You know, our high school team got good and before

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Speaker 6: you know it, as you say, I was like this

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Speaker 6: this this high school sensation. But when I got back

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Speaker 6: home in the neighborhood, you know, I was still junior,

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Speaker 6: but starting to you know, elevate in the state and

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Speaker 6: then people started talking about me nationally. And you know,

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Speaker 6: again growing up, when you were talking about going to college,

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Speaker 6: you know, it was only if you could afford to

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Speaker 6: go to college. If you couldn't afford to go to college,

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Speaker 6: then your choices were Army, Navy, Marines. You go to military,

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Speaker 6: you know, try to make a life there, or you

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Speaker 6: you know, you find some odd job. So, you know,

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Speaker 6: when we started getting offers to go to college, I

330
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Speaker 6: had no idea what any of that meant. But you know,

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Speaker 6: in high school, yeah, I became a pretty big deal,

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Speaker 6: you know, signing autographs and stuff in school, you know,

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Speaker 6: taking pictures, and I never understood any of it. It's

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Speaker 6: like you were you were a celebrity. But then you

335
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Speaker 6: would go home and there's no lights, there's no food.

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Speaker 6: You know, you've kind of got set out again and

337
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Speaker 6: you you're moving to try to find another place to live.

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Speaker 6: So it was an interesting time in my life.

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Speaker 2: Isaiah was heavily recruited and ended up playing college basketball

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Speaker 2: for Bobby Knight and the Indiana Hoosiers. As a sophomore,

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Speaker 2: he left them to the nineteen eighty one NCAA championship

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Speaker 2: and became the second pick in the NBA Draft, going

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Speaker 2: to Detroit, where he would spend the entire yth of

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Speaker 2: his career.

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Speaker 13: Thomas Fillelin worked it perfectly in the Native Chico cou.

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Speaker 2: At the Poor Isaiah initially wanted to play in his

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Speaker 2: hometown Chicago. That team, of course, would eventually become an

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Speaker 2: arch rival. As a member of the Pistons, he battled

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Speaker 2: not only opponents, but perceptions about the team and it's players.

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Speaker 6: The trust issues that you develop or the shield that

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Speaker 6: you have to put on because of your skin. You

352
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:43,480
Speaker 6: get used to navigating. You're suspicious of some of the

353
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Speaker 6: people that you would meet. So I remember growing up

354
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Speaker 6: and there was this one pool that we had to

355
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Speaker 6: high dive, and we were kids. We wanted to go

356
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Speaker 6: to the pool and jump off the high dive and

357
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Speaker 6: I'll never forget. We walked about a mile and we

358
00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:00,320
Speaker 6: get to the park and they wouldn't let it sin

359
00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,240
Speaker 6: And the reason why they the guy told us we

360
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Speaker 6: couldn't come in is because we were black, right, And

361
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Speaker 6: you know that's stung, but you kind of got used

362
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Speaker 6: to that. So going to Indiana and going into the NBA,

363
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:18,239
Speaker 6: you definitely came in a little suspicious, especially of you know,

364
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Speaker 6: some of the coverage that was happening during that period

365
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Speaker 6: of time. And and I don't know if you remember,

366
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Speaker 6: but when I came into the NBA, like women weren't

367
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Speaker 6: covering the NBA. You you were like one of the pioneers,

368
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Speaker 6: and women weren't allowed to come into the locker room,

369
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Speaker 6: they weren't allowed to cover the NBA. And then there

370
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Speaker 6: were no black reporters really covering it. Really was ninety

371
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Speaker 6: nine zero point nine white males covering the NBA, you know,

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Speaker 6: the editors, the producers, the writers. So coming from where

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Speaker 6: I came from, you definitely, like you know, was very

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Speaker 6: aware of the stereotypes and everything else that was being

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Speaker 6: talked about.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that really rang true with the Detroit

377
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:06,280
Speaker 2: Pistons because you were such a physical team and intimidating

378
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:18,760
Speaker 2: but also highly skilled. Help you got this Moniker the

379
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,679
Speaker 2: bad boys, like you were just a bunch of just

380
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 2: throwing your weight around all the time, you know, and

381
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Speaker 2: being physical and maybe not truly getting credit for the

382
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 2: level of skill and finesse that you possessed. Is that accurate?

383
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Speaker 6: Yeah, that that's very accurate. I think the level of

384
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Speaker 6: intellect that we played with as a basketball team and

385
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Speaker 6: the level of skill that we played with coming out

386
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Speaker 6: of Detroit. I just don't think that they knew how

387
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Speaker 6: to describe us, you know, Lambiert and I laugh about

388
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:59,720
Speaker 6: it a lot and still today, because Lambert suburban, suburban

389
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Speaker 6: white kid whose father at that time was making more

390
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:07,280
Speaker 6: money than any NBA player. You know, he's a fortune

391
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:11,960
Speaker 6: five hundred CEO. And Lamber all of a sudden gets

392
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:16,360
Speaker 6: tagged with being called a thug. He had never been

393
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Speaker 6: called a thug in his life.

394
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Speaker 12: Exactly, and so we're I was like, yeah, how does it.

395
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Speaker 6: Feel, you know, So we would tease and laugh about that.

396
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Speaker 6: But you know, we hold the record for the most

397
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Speaker 6: points scored in the NBA game. At one point in time,

398
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Speaker 6: we were the best offensive machine in the NBA, and

399
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,919
Speaker 6: then we became the best defensive team in the NBA.

400
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 6: Putting those two together, offense and defense allowed us to

401
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:57,959
Speaker 6: become champions. And then our ability to sustain concentration and

402
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 6: play against some of the best teams to a play,

403
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,200
Speaker 6: the Lakers, the Celtics, the seventy six ers at that time.

404
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 6: People still today, you know, marvel at how great those

405
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 6: teams were and we always like to say, well, those

406
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:13,160
Speaker 6: are the teams that we beat.

407
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 2: For years, those teams stood between Detroit and the championship.

408
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,679
Speaker 2: In the eighty six eighty seven season, they lost to

409
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Speaker 2: the Celtics in the Eastern Conference finals. The next year

410
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 2: they finally made it to the finals but couldn't get

411
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 2: past the Lakers. I mean, these are the rivalries that

412
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 2: made the NBA the NBA. I mean, this era that

413
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,920
Speaker 2: you're talking about lifted the NBA to a whole another level.

414
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,640
Speaker 2: And in Ada, you reached the finals against the Lakers.

415
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 2: What was that atmosphere for you and your team like

416
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,680
Speaker 2: going into Game one? That was your first NBA Finals appearance.

417
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 6: Finally we had beating the Celtics.

418
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 7: Warn had sixteen points, ten rebounds, and eight assists.

419
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Speaker 6: And it took us years and years to beat the Celtics.

420
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 7: Time you can explode and all the Pistons.

421
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 10: Are aware of that.

422
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 6: And I thought, of course, I always think this way,

423
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 6: but in eighty eight, I thought we were the better team.

424
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 6: I thought we were better than the Celtics, and I

425
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 6: thought we were better than the Lakers. So Game one,

426
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 6: I don't think the Lakers were prepared for what we

427
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 6: was bringing, the type of force that we played with.

428
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 6: And when I say force, people always think I'm talking physicality. No,

429
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 6: I'm talking energy. I'm talking like.

430
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Speaker 14: Just our demeanor, our posture, all our presentation. The way

431
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,959
Speaker 14: we the way we presented ourselves and walked out on

432
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 14: the floor was like we are here and they open

433
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 14: up with a need.

434
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Speaker 8: To nothing least.

435
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Speaker 13: Do you think the Pistons have gained a little respect

436
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 13: from this Laker Bowl club? I think so, and maybe

437
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 13: some confidence as well. One oh three ninety one.

438
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 2: You guys attacked. It really was is like East Coast

439
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:02,399
Speaker 2: basketball versus West.

440
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 6: They were showtime and I never forget this is what

441
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 6: Michael said. He said, don't be happy just to be there,

442
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 6: Go beat the Lakers. And this was the Celtics mentality.

443
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 6: The Celtics were like, okay, you beat us, but we

444
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 6: don't care about nobody but beating the Lakers. Go beat

445
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 6: the Lakers. So we show off for Game one and

446
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 6: we punched them right in the map, you know, not

447
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,679
Speaker 6: not physically, but just with all way of attacking. And

448
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 6: we won Game one and I think they were shot.

449
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 13: Yes, it's the layup and the game is over. That

450
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 13: the boy Pistons have done to the Lakers what they

451
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 13: did to the Boston Celtics. They were underdogs in both series,

452
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 13: and they started the two great teams on the road.

453
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: The final score Detroit one oh.

454
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 13: Five, the LA Lakers ninety.

455
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 2: You take a three to two series lead, donate a

456
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 2: game six, and a game six you suffer, I mean

457
00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 2: a really serious ankle sprain, and then you go on

458
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 2: to score an NBA record twenty five points in the

459
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 2: third quarter, three.

460
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,719
Speaker 3: And a half remaining in the period.

461
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 1: Thomas with a Loopers guard, Isaiah shooting eyes still on

462
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 1: Thomas off balance, basket pump at the bowel as he

463
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 1: goes into the first row, and he is still living.

464
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 2: He is like, just take me back to that moment

465
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 2: and how you powered through? Is that all adrenaline?

466
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 6: Adrenaline? And then something else happened. So Game six, we're rolling,

467
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 6: We're about to put this game away, and I sprained

468
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 6: my ankle. And when I sprained my ankle, I'm like,

469
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 6: not again, because we had had so many heartaches and

470
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 6: failures trying to get past Boston. There was so many

471
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 6: heartaches and now I'm laying on the floor and I

472
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 6: remember there was a sign that always hung in the

473
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 6: Boston Guard that said we will not be denied, And

474
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 6: that was one of the things that flashed in my mind.

475
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 6: But also, believe it or not, why I was laying

476
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 6: on the floor just my mom, like, you know, walking

477
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 6: back and forth to work every day. And I can

478
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 6: remember in the snowstorm, you know, I was complaining about

479
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 6: my I had holes in my in my shoes and

480
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 6: the snow was coming through and my feet were freezing.

481
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 6: I was complaining about my feet, you know, being cold,

482
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 6: and my mom was just like, baby, it's gonna be alright,

483
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 6: It's gonna be all right. And as I looked down

484
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 6: at my feet, I looked over at hers and had

485
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 6: all she had them glad plastic bags and some rubber

486
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 6: bands wrapped around her feet. That's all she had. But

487
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 6: yet she was walking every day. Oh wow, every day. Wow.

488
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 6: And so those type of things was going through my mind.

489
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 6: And I got up and I said, I gotta try it.

490
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,959
Speaker 6: And when I tried it, the miracle happened, so to speak.

491
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 2: Isaiah would score forty three points in Game six, but

492
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 2: it wasn't enough. Kareem abdul Jabbar drew foul on Bill

493
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 2: Lambier with fourteen seconds left. Pistons fans have their own version.

494
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 3: Kareem the old Man goes up and this is the

495
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 3: Soffolk goes to the line with fourteen seconds to go

496
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,880
Speaker 3: and a chance to give the Lakers the league bill.

497
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 3: A beer has filed out of the game.

498
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 6: That's number six.

499
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:25,719
Speaker 2: Here's Isaiah and Detroit native Jalen Rose, courtesy of the

500
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 2: NBA on ESPN.

501
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 15: You know, we say we won. You know people say

502
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 15: we won two championships. We say we won three. Oh no,

503
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 15: we were the first team to really three peat because

504
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 15: we we.

505
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 6: Really got hose. Come, we really got hose.

506
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 2: Kareem went to the line and the Lakers won by

507
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 2: a point. Game seven was also a nail bier, but

508
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 2: the Lakers won that to one o eight to one

509
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 2: oh five in the final seconds to take the series.

510
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 7: Bars to Thomas, nine seconds to go, lame beer fire,

511
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 7: is it playing?

512
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 3: And it's it man, It's one six, one oh five.

513
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 10: Pistons have got to steal.

514
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 3: They're not going to get a chance.

515
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 2: The game ends. The Lakers have got it.

516
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 3: Fugain.

517
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 2: Nineteen eighty nine was the Pistons year. The team had

518
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 2: just moved to the Palace in Auburn Hills a brand

519
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 2: new arena, Zeke, Joe Dumars, John Sally, Dennis Rodman, and

520
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 2: Mark Aguire. Their defense and aggressive play earned them that

521
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 2: famous nickname, the Bad Boys in the East. The Pistons

522
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 2: swept the Celtics.

523
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 8: Dennis Johnson has a stripped away.

524
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 7: Isaiah Thomas can give the Pistons.

525
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 2: A lead to Dumars.

526
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 8: I'll tell you, Isaiah Thomas has been.

527
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 7: Like a pack alertly knocking the ball away.

528
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 2: The Celtics kind of had your number for a couple

529
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 2: of years there, Oh, the Pistons. You kept running up

530
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 2: against the Celtics. What was it that those years taught you?

531
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 2: And then how did you get past them to the

532
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 2: point where you won the back to back titles?

533
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 6: Keyword you just use taught us. They were fierce competitors,

534
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 6: They were great teachers. Everything that we became is because

535
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 6: what the Celtics taught us and what we learned from

536
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 6: playing against them. Every time we made a mistake, they

537
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 6: took advantage of it and they would make you pay

538
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 6: for every single mistake. And it wasn't about your athleticism

539
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 6: or how fast you ran. It was all about you know,

540
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 6: can you sustain concentration for two and a half hours

541
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 6: to compete with us mentally.

542
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 4: The Celtics fine six seventy sixth seventy four forty five

543
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 4: to play third quarter.

544
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 8: Christma's got to be careful, can't dig a hole.

545
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 4: Kelly up top to Lambert, back to Isaiah, deep, proud

546
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 4: and over right, William beautiful ver talk.

547
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 8: I'll tell you what that's that's just happened.

548
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 6: Larry, Kevin, Robert, you know, Danny. I still have great

549
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 6: relationships with them today. I mean, those were all teachers,

550
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 6: those were all mentors. And whenever you hear the Detroit

551
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 6: Pistons talk, we bow to the Celtics. I mean because

552
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 6: they taught us everything and gave us everything. And I

553
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 6: never forget, like when I threw the ball away that

554
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 6: game five, we got them beat like, but we played

555
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 6: the Celtics I think eighty six, eighty seven, eighty eight.

556
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 6: I mean we played them for like four or five

557
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 6: straight years. They were great trash talkers too. I remember

558
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 6: one year they were beating us Anna and I was

559
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 6: taking the last shot and Kevin McHale goes, hey, I

560
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 6: I hope you make it because that's your last shot

561
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 6: of the season.

562
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 12: And I missed it, you know. They was so you

563
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 12: o head, you know, but so I throw the ball away.

564
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 12: In game five, you know, bird steals the ball.

565
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 8: She's got it. The twitch call five seconds to go.

566
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 8: Thomas wants to get it in quickly dust the lambisa.

567
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 6: The next day, I am crushed, I mean crushed. I

568
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 6: don't want to go to practice. I don't want to play.

569
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 6: The phone rings at my house and my wife's lands

570
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 6: ass the phone and and I'm telling her I don't

571
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 6: want to talk. I don't want to talk, and she goes,

572
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 6: I think you need to take this call. And so

573
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 6: she hands me the phone and it's Bill Russell on

574
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 6: the phone, and he goes, young man, we all make mistakes.

575
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 6: You got to get back on the horse and keep riding.

576
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 2: Get up wow from the great Yeah, whoa yeah. After

577
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 2: the Celtics came MJ's Chicago Bulls. Two rounds earlier, Jordan

578
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 2: had hit his famous shot over Craigie love alox aylox alox.

579
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 4: He gives the Jordan of the circle puts the shot

580
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 4: of the air God.

581
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 5: The game's over and the Bulls of the line.

582
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 2: The Pistons beat the Bulls in six.

583
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 9: Will Rodgers Art Right, Grant Hippin, and Jordan for Chicago as.

584
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 2: An advance to the finals against the heavily favored Lakers.

585
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 2: You know you break through, and man, boy, did you

586
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 2: guys break through because you swept the Lakers last year.

587
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 3: The Pistons had a three to two lead.

588
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 10: Couldn't we one of the last two? They'll do it.

589
00:33:58,920 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 8: World champs?

590
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, four games to nothing. Jump Dubars is the MVP.

591
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 2: You had a great game one, You had twenty four

592
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 2: points and nine assists. What was the difference that year?

593
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 2: You said you'd fought so hard to get past the Celtics,

594
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 2: you had so many tough things happen against the Lakers,

595
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:23,919
Speaker 2: But then, man, you guys, it was just everything came

596
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 2: together in that finals.

597
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:25,439
Speaker 5: Yeah.

598
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 6: Every game during the regular season that year, we were

599
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,919
Speaker 6: playing it and practicing like it was the NBA Finals game.

600
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 6: And when we finally got through the playoffs and got

601
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 6: to the finals to play the Lakers again, the force

602
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 6: that we showed up with, the energy that we walked

603
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 6: out on the floor with, they just they couldn't compete

604
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 6: with that line.

605
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:53,800
Speaker 5: Joe Dumars strikes again.

606
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,959
Speaker 2: You guys had learned how to be champions and then, yeah,

607
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 2: you did one of the hardest things in basketball. You

608
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 2: won back to back.

609
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 7: Yeah, they're dancing at the Palace of Auburn Hills, Michigan,

610
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 7: twenty one thousand, five hundred celebrating the Detroit Pistons back

611
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 7: to back NBA champions You.

612
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 2: Came back the next year, you beat the Portland Trail Blazers.

613
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 2: This time you did it in five games.

614
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 6: Yeah.

615
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 2: So you guys only played in those two years. You

616
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 2: played a total of nine NBA Finals games and one

617
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 2: eight out of nine. I mean, what was the key

618
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 2: in coming back that second time and winning again and

619
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 2: doing against a different team.

620
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 6: We were so dominant during that period of time, and

621
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 6: I look at from eighty six to ninety the Lakers, Celtics,

622
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 6: and Pistons. We were just heading shoulders, I believe above

623
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 6: the rest of the league. I looked at that Portland

624
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 6: series and I looked at, Okay, the Lakers and the

625
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 6: Celtics and the Pistons. The Lakers won back to back,

626
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 6: Celtics had won back to back. So I wanted all

627
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 6: team to at least cement itself in history by winning

628
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 6: back to back championships. Doing that against Portland that year,

629
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 6: I was the MVP of the finals. So Joe and I,

630
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,359
Speaker 6: I think we're still the only backcourt that was ever

631
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:28,800
Speaker 6: back to back MVP finals. We definitely left our mark.

632
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:33,280
Speaker 6: And you know, playing against Portland Handadette, I just display

633
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 6: in the Portland series that I still remember to this day.

634
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 6: I think it was it was either game one or

635
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 6: game two. We were playing at the Palace and Clyde

636
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 6: is coming down on a.

637
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 2: Fast payers two on one.

638
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,879
Speaker 6: And I stand in at the dotted line and I'm

639
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 6: going to take a charge. And as I go to

640
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 6: take the charge, I look up.

641
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 2: The line that you were asking for and I.

642
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 6: See these leads like chuck up on to me and

643
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 6: he goes over my head and he dunks it right,

644
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 6: and I'm like, Dan.

645
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: I mean, Isaiah's laughing as he je.

646
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 6: Takes it out of bounds right and he hands it

647
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 6: to me right. And so Joe and I walking up

648
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 6: the court, and people probably thought like we was talking about,

649
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 6: like what play we're gonna lie, but we were really

650
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 6: talking about I said, up, did you see that he goes?

651
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 6: I said, did he really jump.

652
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 2: Over my head?

653
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 6: He said, Zeke like Teddy jumped over.

654
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 2: By Isaiah's pistons were Michael Jordan's kryptonite. The rivalry between

655
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 2: the two teams was bitter. It took years for the

656
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 2: Bulls to get past Detroit.

657
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 9: He's throwing off the glass another history. Buy it's Rodger's cart, right,

658
00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 9: lamp Hippin and Jordan for Chicago.

659
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 2: We all know how the Bulls learn from you and

660
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 2: MJ learn from you, and how you guys beating them

661
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 2: again and again and again you knock them off in

662
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 2: eighty eight, eighty nine, ninety They don't break through and

663
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 2: beat you guys until ninety one. Yeah, I mean, what's

664
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 2: your perspective on that rivalry and sort of the role

665
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 2: that the Pistons played in eventually making MJ and the

666
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 2: Bulls understand what they needed to do to be champs.

667
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:34,760
Speaker 6: You know, I think we always give the Celtics credit,

668
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 6: and Lakers always give Celtics credit. I hate to say

669
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 6: it this way, but the Bulls are the only champions

670
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 6: that don't give nobody no credit. You know, It's kind

671
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 6: of like, you know, they just arrived. No one likes

672
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 6: to get beat and no one likes to give up

673
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,839
Speaker 6: the throne. I wish Chicago would. How can I say

674
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 6: it the way we treat the Celtics, the way the

675
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 6: Lakers and the Celtics treat each other. I don't know

676
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 6: if Chicago treats any of the opponents that they beat

677
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 6: with any type of respect.

678
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 10: I clicked greading us for the customers as pre are

679
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 10: head it all as time runs down. Customers based me

680
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 10: both time and getting out of here. Now time I

681
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 10: was called they left proferential on.

682
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 1: The seven of our jumps.

683
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:28,439
Speaker 2: Second, I remember you guys left the floor at Game

684
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 2: five without shaking hands with that team. What did that indicate?

685
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 8: And you were in.

686
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 6: Studio, so you you you know now right? So, and

687
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 6: we've tried to let people know that Chicago was up

688
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 6: three to zero in the series. And Jordan did a

689
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 6: press conference before Game four and he really trashed us,

690
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 6: trashed our team, trashed the city, you know, said we

691
00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 6: were undeserving champions, used all the stereo t pipes that

692
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 6: were being labeled against our team in the city of Detroit,

693
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 6: such as saying it we were dirty. Not only did

694
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 6: that we take offense to it, but the media inside

695
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 6: Detroit took offense to it, and so did the people

696
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 6: in Detroit. Now, this is how the torch normally was passed.

697
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 6: If you remember, Hannah, After every championship game, teams celebrated

698
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,879
Speaker 6: out on the floor, and then you would go into

699
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,399
Speaker 6: their opposing team's locker room, and that's where you would

700
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 6: shake hands, congratulate them, say good luck so forth. And

701
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 6: so there was never this really passing other torch. And

702
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 6: I'm going to say to you, your producers and everybody else,

703
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 6: find me the picture of Magic Johnson and Larry Bird

704
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:58,320
Speaker 6: shaking hands after one of their finals contests. Find me

705
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 6: that picture under floor showed me. That picture didn't happen,

706
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 6: doesn't exist. And so we were the first team, unfortunately,

707
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 6: to be put in a light where, oh, you're supposed

708
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 6: to pass the torch, you're supposed to that there was

709
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:20,479
Speaker 6: some unwritten code that the rest of the league hadn't

710
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 6: got the memo because we thought that we would leave

711
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 6: the floor and then you go in, you congratulate the

712
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,720
Speaker 6: team inside the locker room, and you let them celebrate,

713
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 6: especially if they went in on your floor. Now, since

714
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 6: we got penalized and everybody snacked us around, everybody is

715
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 6: quick to go shake the hand and hug hey, good

716
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,839
Speaker 6: luck to you, congratulations, you know, But it wasn't done

717
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 6: that way until nineteen ninety one. Those are the facts,

718
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 6: and these.

719
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 2: Are the facts about those Pistons. Five consecutive Eastern Conference Finals,

720
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 2: three consecutive NBA Finals, back to back championships, and the physical,

721
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 2: no holes barred style of play that helped define Eastern

722
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 2: Conference basketball. How do you want to be remembered as

723
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,280
Speaker 2: a basketball player? Obviously one of the all time greats,

724
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 2: but given all of the nuances and the things that

725
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 2: we have talked about, and especially the way that the

726
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 2: Pistons were portrayed back in the day, how do you

727
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:33,959
Speaker 2: think history should look upon you and upon that team.

728
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 6: So I'll start with the team first. I personally think

729
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,439
Speaker 6: we were one of the best defensive teams to ever

730
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 6: play in the NBA, and in terms of how influence

731
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:49,280
Speaker 6: on the NBA style of play what they call small

732
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 6: ball now, we were the first small ball team to

733
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 6: win a championship in terms of two small guards in

734
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 6: the backcourt. In terms of myself and the visually the

735
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 6: way the point guard position or the scoring guard position

736
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:09,800
Speaker 6: is played today, there's only two people that played it

737
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:14,759
Speaker 6: that way, tiny Archibowl and myself. But I'm the only

738
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 6: one that's won back to back championships, being the leading

739
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 6: scorer and also leading and assist. So my place in

740
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 6: history as a small player it's well established. But in

741
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 6: terms of what I've been able to do as a

742
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 6: small man in a big man's game, I would definitely

743
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 6: like to be remembered for conquering the giants and winning

744
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:42,399
Speaker 6: a different way than most people were winning at that time.

745
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 6: Most people were winning with six ' nine Magic Johnson,

746
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 6: six to seven, Reggie Theis, Michael Ray Richardson. All the

747
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:55,359
Speaker 6: point guards at that time were supersized because Magic had

748
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 6: such a big influence. After we won, I think the

749
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 6: guard position really size back down, and now everyone plays.

750
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 6: And I listen to a lot of point guards talk

751
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 6: and they may say their favorite player was such and

752
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 6: such and such and such when they grew up, but

753
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 6: they all kind of play like.

754
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:17,879
Speaker 2: Me regardless of what they say.

755
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:21,839
Speaker 6: I look at them. They say, yeah, my favorite point

756
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 6: guard was you know, you know, Magic Johnson. I'm like, well,

757
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 6: but you don't play like him. But they said, my

758
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:29,919
Speaker 6: favorite player, you know was Michael Jordan. I'm like, yeah,

759
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 6: but you don't play like him. Most guards that are

760
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:38,320
Speaker 6: six ' four and under. I think I've had some

761
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:39,879
Speaker 6: influence on the game that way.

762
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 2: Next time, on NBA DNA Charles Barklay and The Drinking

763
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 2: NBA DNA with Hannah's is a production of iHeart Podcasts,

764
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 2: the NBA and Brainstorman Productions. The show is written and

765
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 2: executive produced by me Hannah Storm along with Julia Weaver

766
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 2: and Alex French. Our lead producer and showrunner is Julia Weaver.

767
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 2: Our senior producers are Peter Kouder, Alex French, and Brandon Reese.

768
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:25,319
Speaker 2: Editing and sound design by Kirk Garren and Julia Weaver.

769
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 2: The show's executive producers are Carmen Belmont, Jason English, Sean

770
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 2: ty Tones, Steve Weintraup, and Jason Weikelt