1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: Quody dimes, but Joseph's gotten more. I hate being on 2 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: the highway. I've gotten now at this stage of my life. 3 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,319 Speaker 1: I used to be able to ignore. I think while 4 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:19,440 Speaker 1: I was going down the road, I would ignore bad 5 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: drivers and these sort of things. I just kind of 6 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: equated it to it's just a price you pay for 7 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: being on the interstate or driving in a big city somewhere. 8 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: But now I don't know if it's what I've done 9 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 1: for a living, or maybe it's my age. Life just 10 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: seems so much more precious to me. I guess the 11 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: less time you have, you know, you put more value 12 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: on it. I don't know, but who actually thinks that 13 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: you're going to get in your car, You're going to 14 00:00:54,400 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: go down the road and then suddenly a stone is 15 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: hoisted in your direction as you're riding alone, minding your 16 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 1: own business. It enters the car and it ends your life. Today, 17 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: own body Bags, we're going to have a discussion about 18 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: such case that brought about the death of a young 19 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:33,279 Speaker 1: woman who was just minding her own business and didn't 20 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: know the death was waiting just around the corner. I'm 21 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is body Bags has your 22 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: tolerance worn thin day relative to operation of a motor viwer. 23 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: I mean, it's an obviously, it's a it's a necessity 24 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: in life. We don't live in some tiny little farm community, 25 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: you know, and you know, make our own food and 26 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:09,920 Speaker 1: subsistence farming and that sort of thing. We have to 27 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: go out and have contact with folks and drive along thoroughfares. 28 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: And it seems like the further I go in life, 29 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: the dumber people get on the road, and you just 30 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: you never know what you're going to see. I've seen 31 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: some of the most bizarre things, you know, as a 32 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,399 Speaker 1: death investigator, and we really haven't talked about this at all. 33 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: I don't know why, because I'd say I've worked as 34 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: I've worked as many motor vehicle accidents in my career 35 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: as I have actually firearms related homicides. First off, not 36 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: everybody owns a gun. The line share of people do 37 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: have cars and car accidents in our country, you know, 38 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: they make up the long the line share of violent 39 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: related deaths. You know you're going to have any They're 40 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 1: not all homicides. Obviously, You've got a lot of mvas. 41 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: That's the term, the acronym that she used for motor 42 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: vehicle accidents. 43 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, what we're talking about today goes way beyond a 44 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 2: couple of stupid drivers. This is like one person driving 45 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 2: and another person trying to hurt maime and kill people 46 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 2: by throwing things at night while you're driving down the road. 47 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, Joseph Kinnig, Zachary Quack, and 48 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 2: Nicholas Carol Chick we're all eighteen at the time. Joe 49 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 2: and they're riding around in a truck with Joseph Kinning 50 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 2: behind the wheel, and they've been driving around. This is 51 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 2: not the first time they've gone out doing this, but 52 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 2: on this particular night, on a beautiful April night in Colorado, 53 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 2: it's around eleven o'clock at night, and they're throwing rocks. 54 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 2: They're moving vehicle at other vehicles coming at them in 55 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 2: the opposite direction, and they were having fun. They were 56 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 2: actually cheering themselves on. Think about it, you're driving down 57 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 2: the road. You know, we get annoyed by people making 58 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 2: stupid decisions, leaving a blinker, on not breaking properly, cutting 59 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 2: in front of us, things like that. In this case, 60 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 2: you're driving down the road and there's somebody coming at 61 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 2: you and they take a rock and throw it at 62 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 2: you as you're driving, because that's what Konig did. He Actually, 63 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,679 Speaker 2: it wasn't a pebble, It wasn't a rock the size 64 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 2: of a golf ball or a baseball. Joe. He got 65 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 2: a landscape boulder weighing nine pounds, and as he's driving 66 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 2: down the road towards a car coming at him, he 67 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 2: speeds up to eighty miles an hour and with it. 68 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:58,239 Speaker 2: He's a lefty, he's driving. He uses a shot put 69 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 2: form to launch the nine pound bowlder and it goes 70 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,600 Speaker 2: through the front windshield of the car coming at him 71 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 2: and goes right through the driver and out the back window. 72 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: I'm okay, let me just break this down. This is like, 73 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: this is like the ultimate, the ultimate demonstration of physics. 74 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: All right. 75 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 2: This scared me to death, Joe, Yeah, read. 76 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: I know it's terrifying because it could literally happen to anybody. 77 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: Isaac Newton would have a field day with this. If 78 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: you're if you're thinking about because let's let's look at 79 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:43,039 Speaker 1: this just from a baseline understanding, uh, just from the 80 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 1: dynamics of motion. If you've ever if anyone, if anyone 81 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: out there, has ever picked up a stone okay, and 82 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: you've stood beside a lake. I don't know about you day. 83 00:05:57,800 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: One of the things I used to love to do 84 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: is kids skip stone. You still love it. I even 85 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: that even carried over to you. Know, when Noah was little, 86 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: he and I would go up in the mountains and 87 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 1: there were a couple of lakes, mountain lakes, and we 88 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 1: would skip stones. He was learning how to throw a 89 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 1: baseball at that time, and we'd skip stones. We just 90 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: have the most fun. But you know, when you're skipping 91 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: a stone, all of that power is generated by you 92 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 1: and you alone. Okay, all of that energy, rather, let's 93 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: say energy is generated by you and you alone as 94 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: you propel that stone and it breaks the surface of 95 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:41,720 Speaker 1: that water. Okay, what we're talking about here, So let's 96 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: just think about it this way. You're in a moving vehicle. 97 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: You're going I don't know, forty miles per hour. You 98 00:06:52,920 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: feed up to fifty a pickup truck, now sixty seventy eighty. 99 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: So the rock that you happen to have with you 100 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: in the front cab of your vehicle. Now, let's just 101 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: picture this just for a second. You got a landscaping 102 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: stone that I guess if you're driving the vehicle. This 103 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: is the craziest thing I've ever heard. You're driving a vehicle. 104 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: It's got to be resting in your lap. Now. I 105 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: don't know how many people out there have ever done 106 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: any landscaping. You're holding an eight to nine pound object 107 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: in your lap already while you're driving down the road. 108 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: You suddenly think that it's a good idea to take 109 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: this thing and heave it toward an oncoming vehicle. And 110 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: here's the piece that's really fascinating. That stone is not 111 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: traveling at with the same amount of energy as if 112 00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: you were standing on the shores of that Placid lake 113 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: like I did with my son skipping stones. You're now 114 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: that stone along with you, and every item in that 115 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: vehicle is now traveling eighty miles per hour. When you 116 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: release it into that space, it's meeting another vehicle that 117 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: we can only assume that is traveling I don't know, 118 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: let's just say it's fifty miles per hour. Those two 119 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: energies meet at that moment in time. The same crashes 120 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: through the cab of the oncoming vehicle and has still 121 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: enough energy Dave that it travels out of the back 122 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 1: of the vehicle that's an incredible amount of force that 123 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: you're talking about. That thing is literally the same mass 124 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: as a Civil war cannonball. Think about that just for 125 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: a second. Only it doesn't have the smooth edges now, 126 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:03,079 Speaker 1: does it. It's rough stone, and anything that it hits 127 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: it's going to completely tear up because of those edges, 128 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: and going through glass as well, it creates other bits 129 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: of shrapnel, any kind of bits of the stone that 130 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 1: come off upon impact. Anything that is within the cabin 131 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: of that vehicle, whether it be a piece of metal 132 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 1: off the framework or the glass, is now traveling at 133 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: a very high rate of speed, and it's going to 134 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: target whatever's lying in its path, and unfortunately, in this case, Dave, 135 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 1: it was this young woman. 136 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 2: It's shocking beyond anything, Joe that when I read it 137 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 2: several times from different reports, different angles, different court things, 138 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 2: because I was trying to figure out how this could 139 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 2: happen while you're driving, to be able to launch something 140 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 2: like that, you know, I mean, just the mechanics of everything. 141 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 2: Then I find out that these guys had a already 142 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 2: been doing it throughout the course of that evening. This 143 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 2: wasn't the first and only time they did that. There 144 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 2: are three people in the car, and they all three 145 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 2: took turns throwing things at moving vehicles. Okay, Now at trial, Joe, 146 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 2: we got different stories from all of them. I mean 147 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 2: all of them. One of the guys says, I didn't 148 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,959 Speaker 2: throw nothing, but they all rolled over on one. Well, no, 149 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,439 Speaker 2: two of them rolled over on Koenig, who was driving. 150 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 2: I don't know what actually took place, except that all 151 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 2: three were throwing rocks from a moving vehicle at oncoming traffic. 152 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 2: Who threw the rock that killed a twenty year old 153 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 2: woman named Alexa Bartel? Who did that? Is? It's not germane. 154 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 2: They should all go to jail for the rest of 155 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 2: their lives for this. In my book, just Dave's book, okay, 156 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:53,079 Speaker 2: the Dave Book of Justice, all right, which means nothing. 157 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 2: But I was shocked at a rock boulder nine pounds 158 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 2: coming through a windshield. Knowing that we do have glass 159 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 2: that has safety in it and things like that, so 160 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 2: I would think it would slow down some, but that 161 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:08,719 Speaker 2: this was traveling at such velocity that it went right through. 162 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 2: It killed her instantly. It killed her instantly. Oh and 163 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 2: by the way, Joe, just to add to this, because well, 164 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 2: her car went off the road. She was killed instantly, 165 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 2: her car goes off the road, and these three people 166 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 2: are watching. They turn around and come back and go 167 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 2: buy her car a couple of times and take pictures 168 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 2: as a memento for what they had done. The thing 169 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 2: that I wanted to ask you, Joe, because it actually 170 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 2: comes up in this story, and it was shocking to me. 171 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 2: I don't want to know your worst take. I know 172 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 2: that's one of the things people ask you. This story 173 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 2: became this scene that the EMS crew showed up on. 174 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 2: It became the last acting I've seen one of the 175 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,959 Speaker 2: workers could ever go to again. It stayed with her 176 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 2: to the point because she didn't know what happened, and 177 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 2: she talked about how when she got to the scene 178 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 2: because the car. Think about it, it's eleven o'clock at night, yea, 179 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 2: a rock goes through the car and the car goes 180 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,199 Speaker 2: off the road into a field. Nobody sees it except 181 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 2: these idiots who'd turn around to take pictures. But it 182 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 2: was a friend of hers that she was on the 183 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 2: phone with. Oh I should have added that she was 184 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 2: on the phone talking to her girlfriend when the rock 185 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 2: came through and killed her. So the phone ended. The 186 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 2: phone stopped right then her friend's like, where'd she go, 187 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,439 Speaker 2: and actually tracks her phone to that location. That's how 188 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:46,839 Speaker 2: they found her because there weren't any police or anything 189 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 2: on the scene. You got again, it's at night, a 190 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 2: car goes off into a field, nobody notices, and so 191 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 2: when they finally called her help, EMS shows up. They 192 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 2: don't know if it's been a heart attack, they don't 193 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 2: know if the person had a medical thing. They don't 194 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 2: know what has happened until they get there. And still 195 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 2: think about it. This woman's body is so destroyed. The 196 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 2: rock went through her, killed her and went out the 197 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 2: back window of her car. Imagine the site, Joe. I'm 198 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 2: trying to figure out what happened. But it was so 199 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:23,439 Speaker 2: horrific that a person whose career has been spent out 200 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 2: in the field doing this couldn't could not let it go. 201 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 2: I know you understand that. 202 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I do. And you see things like this that 203 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: I'm reflecting back to many years ago with a case 204 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 1: that wasn't exactly like this, but it involved scientifically, you know, 205 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 1: it involved an object flying through the air and striking 206 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: a car. And I'm reminded of a mother and a 207 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 1: daughter that were on the way to go to go 208 00:13:55,440 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: do Christmas shopping and tandem wheel and tire still intact 209 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 1: on the wheel came off of the back of an 210 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: eighteen wheeler going down I ten and jumped the center 211 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 1: wall on iten went over the wall and struck a 212 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: vehicle right in dead center in the windshield and killed 213 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: a mom and daughter in that vehicle. And I remember 214 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: being at the scene after that, and it was at 215 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: Christmas time. I remember being at the scene at that 216 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: thing when it happened, and after I had worked the case. 217 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: Because you know, when you're at the scene, it's very 218 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: you try to be as very clinical. You might have 219 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: like one of those oh my lord, I can't believe 220 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 1: this happened for a second, But then you get into 221 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: what you're doing and you're trying to process a scene. Now, 222 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: I would never presume to put myself in the position 223 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: of life saver, because I was or a lifesaver. Okay, 224 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: I was a last responder. These are first responders. They're 225 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: trying to save somebody's life. But I do know this. 226 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: I know that after that happened and I was there, 227 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: it wasn't like a shooting, It wasn't like a strangulation. 228 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: It was almost like this just happened and it could 229 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: happen to anybody. And I remember thinking for a long 230 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: time afterwards, every time I would go over that stretch 231 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: of it, in which I had to do regularly, thinking 232 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: is that going to happen again? Hopefully in this case 233 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: this never will, Brother Dave. You know one of the 234 00:15:54,800 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: most difficult things that you and work as an investigator 235 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 1: our motor vehicle accidents that are single car and they're 236 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: in the middle of the night, they're out on a 237 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: dark stretch of road, and you have no explanation. I 238 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: was recalling what you just said about you know that 239 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: you've got somebody deceased the cars off the road was 240 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: just a heart attack, and you have to factor in 241 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: everything because you have no idea. You have no idea. 242 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: I had a friend of mine that is a forensics 243 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: a forensic scientist, and he's a crime scene investigator, and 244 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: he was he worked a case not too far away 245 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: from where we are here of a guy that ran 246 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: off the road and he had the victim in the car. 247 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: He had a went over the side of a ridge 248 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: and he had a a semi automatic handgun with a 249 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 1: hammerback on it in the car. And you know that 250 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: round that that weapon discharged and struck the driver in 251 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 1: the chest. And it turned out it was just a 252 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 1: freak accident where the weapon discharge struck the guy in 253 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: the chest. And oh, by the guy, by the way, 254 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: the guy went over a cliff and hit a tree 255 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 1: at the bottom. And so you've got these these two 256 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 1: events that occur where you've got a car, which is 257 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:34,360 Speaker 1: one of the most violent things you can be involved 258 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 1: in relative to blunt force trauma. As a matter of fact, 259 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: blunt force trauma is generally the leading cause of death 260 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 1: in any kind of motor vehicle accident because if you're 261 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 1: not belted, or even if you are belted, you know, 262 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: seat belts and airbags are all fine and good, but 263 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: they're not fool proof. You know, they're they're still going 264 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,439 Speaker 1: to get you and to boot when they can. You 265 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,719 Speaker 1: imagine their shock, you know, when they find a spent round, 266 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: you know that has passed through this guy's body. It 267 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: was quite shocking. You never know what you're going to get. 268 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: And the thing about it is, most of the time 269 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: it happens, particularly in rural areas where you're kind of 270 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: in an outlying area, no light. It's dark, you don't 271 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: see any skid marks. Perhaps it just happens and the 272 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:25,880 Speaker 1: car is resting there and you don't know what secrets 273 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: rest within the cabin of that vehicle. 274 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 2: Dave, That's what I was thinking. When I was I 275 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 2: was having a lot of trouble with the story, trying 276 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 2: to figure out what actually went on, you know, because 277 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 2: I'm I'm a visual person, So when I hear a story, 278 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 2: I'm visualizing. I'm picturing what's going on. And in this 279 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 2: I'm reading testimony and I'm reading police reports, and I'm thinking, 280 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 2: how in the world because nobody knew. It took time 281 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 2: to figure this out. Nobody knew what actually happened, and 282 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 2: it was some incredible investigation, Joe that the other people 283 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 2: were injured. Just to back up a little bit, during 284 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 2: the course of the evening, when these three guys go out, 285 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 2: they were out there throwing rocks and boulders at other vehicles, 286 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:13,919 Speaker 2: doing damage, hurting people. And so there were witnesses not 287 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 2: to this particular death, not to this I'm not going 288 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 2: to it wasn't an accident. It was a murder, But 289 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:23,679 Speaker 2: there were not witnesses of that particular thing. But there 290 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 2: were witnesses to other events that took place that night, 291 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 2: Rocks being thrown at cars, and people got description of 292 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 2: the vehicle license plate, things like that. By the way, 293 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 2: in this day and age, if you think for a 294 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 2: minute that they can't pinpoint every place you've been, every 295 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 2: place you've gone, and probably predict where you're going next 296 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 2: with our digital footprint, you're wrong. Those devices we carry 297 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 2: with us so cavalierly have a recorder on them everything 298 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 2: you say. Otherwise, why do you think it's possible that 299 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,120 Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan and I start talking about fly fishing, 300 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 2: and tomorrow on Facebook we both have billions of things 301 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 2: about fly fishing. Even though it was just a joke 302 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 2: I just made. 303 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 1: Okay, you just creeped me out. Again, I'd forgotten all 304 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 1: about that. But yeah, it happens on a regular basis. 305 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so now that's how they track these cats down, 306 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 2: and then they find other victims, you know. And again 307 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 2: I go back to this scene, and I'm thinking about 308 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,160 Speaker 2: her family, and I'm thinking about everybody else who drives 309 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,160 Speaker 2: down the road. You know, we had an accident in Alabama, 310 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 2: Joe and not Actually it's a place you and I 311 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,719 Speaker 2: have both driven a lot I twenty I twenty east 312 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 2: and west, but heading eastbound towards Atlanta. There was a 313 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 2: section of road and a couple was on their way 314 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 2: home to South Carolina and they're driving behind an eighteen 315 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 2: wheeler on I twenty and the eighteen wheel hit a pothole. 316 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,479 Speaker 2: It caused a rock from the road to come up 317 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,479 Speaker 2: out of the roadway and it smashed into a pickup 318 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 2: truck that was driving home to South Carolina, and a 319 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 2: woman was killed in the bed of the It was 320 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,199 Speaker 2: an accident. Now this was a total accident, but it 321 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 2: caused the governor the state of Alabama to slow a 322 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 2: put up new signs for They slowed it down till 323 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 2: they could fix everything. His apoles are a disaster. And 324 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 2: so that was an accident. That's something that happened out 325 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 2: of the blue. You know, nobody could predict it what 326 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 2: was going to happen when it did. This is a 327 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:20,120 Speaker 2: very similar outcome in that a rock went through a window, 328 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 2: but it was caused by a guy driving down the 329 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 2: road trying to cause damage, trying to hurt someone. Yeah, 330 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 2: I dare say trying to kill him, because I mean, 331 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 2: at eighteen years old, you have to know the effect 332 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 2: of a rock, a nine pound rock, which, hey, go 333 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 2: lift up a gallon of milk? Ways, what seven pounds? Yeah, 334 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 2: see how far you can throw that? Add two pounds 335 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 2: to it. See how far you can throw it? He 336 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 2: sped up, He sped up to eighty miles an hour, 337 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 2: so it'd caused more damage. Joe, I mean, what wow. 338 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 1: Well when you okay, let's stop right there just for 339 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: a second, because this is a fascinating case. In these terms, 340 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: it comes down to whate refer to as the eye 341 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: word intent. And again, you know you're getting over I am, 342 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: at least right now making that statement, getting over into 343 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:17,640 Speaker 1: the area of lawyering. Lawyering you began to think about, well, 344 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: was their intent? Was its specific intent? Well, Dave. They 345 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: they wound up charging the guy that hurled rock with 346 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: not third, not second, but first degree homicide, Dave, first 347 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: degree homicide, And that goes I think that probably the 348 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: way they're looking at it at least is that it 349 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 1: would have been one thing, perhaps perhaps as horrible as 350 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: it still would be, if he happened to be driving 351 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 1: down the road and he tossed the stone out of 352 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 1: the vehicle and it was a one off event, but Dave, 353 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: Like you said, these three idiots had been doing this 354 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 1: all night long, and I would imagine they had been 355 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,679 Speaker 1: they'd done it before for some reason. 356 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 2: They had on three different occasions, Yeah, on three on three, 357 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 2: these guys, well two of the three had done it 358 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,199 Speaker 2: three times before, and they each, according to one of them, 359 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 2: said they had each thrown ten rocks that night. And 360 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 2: by the way, Joe, if you actually dig a little deeper, 361 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 2: you find out that one of these guys in the car. 362 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 2: We don't know who, because we can't believe anybody. The 363 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:40,400 Speaker 2: only thing we do know is that somebody and there's 364 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 2: been a conviction. But they all three were charged with 365 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,360 Speaker 2: throwing rocks out of the car that night. But one 366 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 2: of them actually took this nine pound rock boulder from Walmart. 367 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 2: It was a landscape boulder from Walmart, and they actually 368 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 2: moved it to where he could grab it. They had 369 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 2: to move it because he's driving the car, Joe, he 370 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 2: can't pick and choose what he's going to throw. Somebody 371 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 2: has to provide it. So just like if you were 372 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 2: driving and I handed you a gun and I loaded 373 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 2: the round in it and make sure here you go, Joe, 374 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,360 Speaker 2: it's already and that's what they did. They actually had 375 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 2: to position the rock where he could grab it, where 376 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 2: he could grab it with his right hand, position it 377 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 2: on his lap to his left hand, switch hands, grab 378 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 2: the wheel at the right hand, and now steady it. 379 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,160 Speaker 2: Because remember it's not a round cannonball, as you mentioned, 380 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 2: it's a rock. It's got different weight distribution and everything else, 381 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 2: different edges, and then you're going to have to go 382 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,159 Speaker 2: out the window a little bit and then you're gonna 383 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 2: shot put it. There's a lot of activity in the 384 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 2: car helping him get that rock, getting a nine pound 385 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,360 Speaker 2: bowlder in the cab of that truck to you get 386 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 2: in a position where he could throw it. They were 387 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 2: all involved all night. They could have hurt thirty people 388 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 2: that night. Joe. 389 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm wondering the the and I'll call it 390 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: this the weapon of choice here, the projectile of choice, 391 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: which is actually weaponized, and you get weaponized just out anything, 392 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: all right, but it scientifically, it would require a kind 393 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 1: of understanding of the weight of the thing and how 394 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,120 Speaker 1: it because the scene is not going to be perfectly balanced. 395 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 1: I actually, for a very short period of time I 396 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 1: played football in high school, but for a very short 397 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: period of time I had. We were required to be 398 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: on the track team. Well you take a one look 399 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 1: at me until don't. I didn't run the forty, all right, 400 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 1: that was not my back. So I threw a shot 401 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 1: put in discus and by the way, two of the 402 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,159 Speaker 1: most difficult things to master. You think that it's simple. 403 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: Discus in particularly very difficult, but shotput there's so there's 404 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: so many tiny little things that you have to do 405 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: just right. The reason I'm saying this is that if 406 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: you're throwing a shot put, you're you're in a very 407 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 1: static kind of environment. That's not what we're talking about here. 408 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: This is something and it took a lot of practice 409 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: just for me to heave that thing down the down range. 410 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: You know, at an event with a car, you've got 411 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 1: the movement of the car, you have got the uneven 412 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,959 Speaker 1: nature of roads, you've got wind to factor in, and 413 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 1: you've got this weird weight distribution that's going on with 414 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:26,159 Speaker 1: this this you know, paver or not paver, but landscaping stone. 415 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: You have to try to understand how. 416 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 2: To hold it well. 417 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: That goes to practice, doesn't it. And I find it 418 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: fascinating what you had said that each one of these 419 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: individuals had actually cast at least ten during this session, 420 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: during this period of time while going down the road. 421 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: It almost it does seem practiced. And again we go 422 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,919 Speaker 1: back to this idea in the law of intent. Now, 423 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,679 Speaker 1: there's some places that don't necessarily require intent, but sometimes 424 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:06,199 Speaker 1: to have a first degree murder charge with somebody, you 425 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,679 Speaker 1: have to have some kind of intention to do harm 426 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,439 Speaker 1: to another human being or this thing's not going to 427 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: pass the smell test when it comes to courts. And 428 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 1: the DA felt strong enough about this so that they 429 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: could in fact charge the person that was throwing the 430 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: stone with first degree. So it really paints a very 431 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: dark and sinister, sinister picture. And here's another thing, and 432 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: I hate the why question. I think what is more 433 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 1: effective here? What was What is it that compelled you 434 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 1: to think that this was a great idea that I 435 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 1: was going to go to the trouble of finding stones 436 00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 1: that I could create projectiles out of. And I think 437 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 1: that it is a great idea that we cast them 438 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: at other people as they're driving down the road. Now 439 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: you can call it, you know, I don't know, the 440 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: foolishness of youth. You can call it careless disregard. But 441 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: the da in Colorado called it first degree homicide. The 442 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: big question is how do you go about putting that 443 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: stone into the hand of a driver if you're an investigator, 444 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: and how do you take that stone and put it 445 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:58,239 Speaker 1: in contact with the victim? Now I can tell you 446 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: this kind of harkens back to what we had mentioned 447 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: about the EMT. God bless her by the way, what 448 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 1: she bore witness to. Yeah, it's horrible. I think her 449 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 1: name's miss Bergeron, what missus Bergeron saw and trust me, 450 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: she's She's an empty firefighter. She's seen some things, all right, 451 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: I mean she has and and unlike me, I wasn't 452 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: present for the screams firefighters however are Can you imagine 453 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: using the jaws of life or using that big saw 454 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: to cut somebody out as they're penned in a car 455 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: in their conscience and they've got horrific industry injuries. She 456 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: had to do that, and this set her so back 457 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: on her heels with what she bore witness to. But 458 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: when we would have gotten a case like this like 459 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: Alexa Bartel and removed her from the scene and gotten 460 00:29:52,880 --> 00:30:00,040 Speaker 1: her back to the morgue, this this autopsy, this this 461 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: morning examination, you kind of have an expectation of what 462 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: you're going to because she was struck in the head 463 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: by the way, you are going to have an expectation 464 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: of of what you're going to see inside, But it's 465 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 1: what's outside that you really kind of have to assess 466 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 1: very very carefully. And this injury Dave is going to 467 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 1: be so grotesque and over the top and so massive 468 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: that it it's going to take some time to try 469 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: to put this together. And one of things you're looking for, 470 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 1: particularly when it comes to an object, we're always we're 471 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 1: we're one of our great skills in the Morgue is 472 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 1: trying to match up patterns. That's that's one of the 473 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: things that we do. So, like if you're looking at 474 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: at this landscaping thing that has been created and sold 475 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: by Walmart, you're going to look for like the leading 476 00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 1: edges of it, like is it rough or is it smooth? 477 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 1: And when you look at what she would have had 478 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: is a massive, probably gaping, blunt force trauma with last 479 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: multiple lacerations. So you're going to have a central point 480 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: of impact where the stone would have hit her directly 481 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: in the head. 482 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 2: And then if. 483 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: You'll when we talk about bullet wounds to the head. 484 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 1: One of the things that we'll talk about are stell 485 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: eight wounds and stell eight means are star shaped. The 486 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: skin has a funny way of doing things when it's struck, 487 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: particularly along the smooth surfaces of the skull in the face, 488 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: you'll get these kind of tearing lacerations that radiate out 489 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: from a central point where they take on almost star 490 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 1: like patterns. And when I say starlight, think at Christmas 491 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: time when you see images that people create of the 492 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: Star of Bethlehem. You know where it's radiating out, You've 493 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: got like it almost looks like a cross sometimes, but 494 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,120 Speaker 1: it'll have other little beams that kind of come out 495 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 1: of it. That's what these injuries actually look like. And 496 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: the skin is actually torn, it's not going to have 497 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 1: smooth edges it. The skin will actually be pulled apart 498 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 1: and ripped where the skin is torn away or torn 499 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: and ripped away, and you'll see these little tears along 500 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: the skin, and that's what they would have been trying 501 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: to match up. Also, any kind of debris that was 502 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: generated by this object flying through the air. Did you know, Dave, 503 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: that when things pass through glass like that you had 504 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 1: mentioned safety glass when safety glass breaks, it cubes, it 505 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 1: turns into little cubes and you get these really weird 506 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: ninety degree angle little lacerations, and we actually call these 507 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 1: dicing injuries. So you will have those to contend with 508 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 1: because that glass that breaks on that window will be 509 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 1: traveling roughly the same velocity as the stone would be. 510 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 1: So that's what I meant by the kind of fragmenting, 511 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,360 Speaker 1: shrapnel like event that takes place. So when she's hit, 512 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 1: when she's hit, this thing would have driven that glass 513 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 1: into her face in addition to the leading edge of 514 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: this rock. But here's the really chilling thing about this, 515 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: Dave that we've kind of I'm not going to say 516 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 1: gloss or we just hadn't talked about it yet, Dave, 517 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: this thing had so much energy that after it struck this, 518 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 1: after it passed through the window, after it struck her, 519 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 1: it still had enough energy on it, Dave, to pass 520 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: out of the rear window of this thing. That's what's 521 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 1: so amazing about this and what. 522 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 2: I'm looking at too, and that's what got me, Joe, 523 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 2: is that realizing that she was killed instantly, Okay, the 524 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 2: minute to hit it was over. Where would that rock 525 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 2: have ended if it went through, it would be back 526 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 2: there or towards the road, I'm guessing. But one thing 527 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 2: that came up, because Joe, there was no DNA on 528 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,720 Speaker 2: that raw on that boulder. When they got the boulder, 529 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 2: I would have expected there to be DNA something left 530 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,360 Speaker 2: behind by any one of the three guys in that truck. 531 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 2: I'm figuring they're holding it when they pick it up, 532 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 2: they're holding it in the truck. But you know what 533 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 2: investigators found. The only DNA on that boulder was from 534 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 2: the victim, from Alexa. But I'm guessing when the rock 535 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 2: goes through the window, because again it's it's so fast 536 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 2: this whole you know, it's not a long, slow motion, 537 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 2: drawn out, minute long event. This had to have been 538 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:41,759 Speaker 2: in a matter of less than a second. Yeah, And 539 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 2: it went from his hand shot put style, through the 540 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 2: window the front windshield, through Alexa Bartel and out the 541 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 2: back window of her vehicle. So based on that happening, 542 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 2: that rock's going to have to be somewhere along the 543 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 2: interstate or along the road or in the shoulder slightly. 544 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. And this is what makes this so very difficult, Dave, 545 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:09,759 Speaker 1: When when you're in an area that is less than 546 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,839 Speaker 1: an ideal. You're thinking about shoulders of roads, you're thinking 547 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,359 Speaker 1: about dark nighttime, and you're looking at this. This is 548 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 1: the bizarre thing. Again. It adds to the complexity of this. 549 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: She's off of the road. This is not like a 550 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: real linear kind of thing that happens where rock passes 551 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,920 Speaker 1: through window, strikes young lady, goes out the back of 552 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 1: the window, and it's found resting in the center of 553 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:38,919 Speaker 1: the road. Okay, first off, she wasn't found immediately, all right, 554 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 1: Well except by these morons. 555 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, by the guys that through the rock, acting acting 556 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 2: like vultures by the way, going back and circling back 557 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:51,879 Speaker 2: and taking pictures. 558 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:58,400 Speaker 1: What lovely young men. It's not linear like that because 559 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 1: she drives off the road. So you can't just randomly 560 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,080 Speaker 1: say if you find a you know, for all we know, 561 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 1: a landscaping stone might have fallen off off of a truck, 562 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,759 Speaker 1: you know, a home depot and Walmart and Loew's they 563 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,000 Speaker 1: delivered to people's homes. Particularly when you're talking about heavy objects, 564 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,319 Speaker 1: who's to say that it just didn't fall off. But 565 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 1: the key to this is the fact that they found 566 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:26,760 Speaker 1: Alexis DNA on this rock. So that gives you an indication. 567 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,680 Speaker 1: You can't you know, you just can't dismiss that if 568 00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 1: you're a defense attorney very easily and say, well, you know, 569 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: it just happened to be there. No, it happened to 570 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,440 Speaker 1: be in proximity to a young woman who has sustained 571 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 1: massive blunt forestram to her head. Her head is open, 572 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:48,160 Speaker 1: by the way, which would facilitate inoculating the surface of 573 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:52,719 Speaker 1: that object with blood, hair, skin, whatever it was, and 574 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:54,799 Speaker 1: then coming to rest. The trick is when you go 575 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,920 Speaker 1: out to work these scenes, what are you going to 576 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: do to find it? I'd be fascinated relative to the 577 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: distribution of any glass that was at the scene, that 578 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,880 Speaker 1: safety glass that I was referring to, that's kind of 579 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:12,239 Speaker 1: cubed up laying along the road. Does it match up 580 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: where she's left, she's lost consciousness, Well, she's dead and 581 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:19,959 Speaker 1: the car just kind of goes off on its own. 582 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,360 Speaker 1: Was the glass? How far down the road from the 583 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 1: point of impact did the car travel before it creamed 584 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,640 Speaker 1: off the road into the field. So you have to 585 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 1: rely on that. And then where was this and it 586 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,239 Speaker 1: is a projectile? Where was this projectile in relation to 587 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:44,560 Speaker 1: the vehicle? Okay, it boggles the mind that they were 588 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: able to narrow this thing down to the point where 589 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 1: they were able to get three suspects out of this day. 590 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:54,839 Speaker 1: And I think a lot of it goes back to 591 00:37:54,880 --> 00:38:07,480 Speaker 1: this idea of electronic documentation, and I'm thinking, how difficult 592 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,759 Speaker 1: was it for the DA to marry all this up 593 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 1: to put together this this packet, you know, essentially for 594 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:18,319 Speaker 1: an indictment subsequent to conviction on these individuals. 595 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,719 Speaker 2: We're not reading everything going because I was after that 596 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,919 Speaker 2: same angle. I was like, in my head, I'm going, 597 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 2: I know DNA doesn't exist everywhere all the time, but surely, 598 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 2: you know, in my head, I'm thinking they had to 599 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 2: have a way to track it back to them, because 600 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 2: just looking at what we're told happened, you're thinking there 601 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 2: has to be some type of evidence that's going to 602 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,960 Speaker 2: directly tie them to the victim. And there really isn't, 603 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:46,839 Speaker 2: because again, like I said, that Rock didn't. But what 604 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 2: they did have is they had twenty plus other people 605 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,840 Speaker 2: that night who came in contact with these fellas driving 606 00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:01,879 Speaker 2: this truck throwing stuff. So imagine the witnesses you did 607 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,239 Speaker 2: have that you and I might have been driving down 608 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,440 Speaker 2: the road good to go watch a ball game earlier 609 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,400 Speaker 2: coming home from that right and we're just driving down 610 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 2: the road. All of a sudden a truck passes us 611 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 2: and a rock hits the car. You're like, what was that? No, 612 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,759 Speaker 2: we're not hurt, and we think, well, maybe it came 613 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:18,920 Speaker 2: up from the road. You know, we start thinking what 614 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 2: could have happened, But that's what happened. They had thrown 615 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 2: at least ten rocks of peach that night. So over 616 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:25,759 Speaker 2: a period of two or three hours, thirty people have 617 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,880 Speaker 2: had rocks thrown at them on the road. And you know, 618 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:30,759 Speaker 2: there's going to be a couple of those reports that 619 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:32,799 Speaker 2: get back to police. There's going to be a couple 620 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:34,919 Speaker 2: of them say there was a truck involved in each 621 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 2: one of these. So they started piecing it together the 622 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:41,240 Speaker 2: old school. But then of course you have the electronic stuff, 623 00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 2: the digital footprint that ties them to the different places 624 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:49,560 Speaker 2: involved here, because as you said, they went with first murder. Now, 625 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,680 Speaker 2: the first murder charge that on conviction is life without parole. 626 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,880 Speaker 2: That's a serious as Colorado lag gets what they were 627 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,839 Speaker 2: able to do. Again, these guys are eighteen. They were 628 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,840 Speaker 2: able to find out that this wasn't the first time 629 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,800 Speaker 2: where the suburban Colorado area DIN for Colorado Area have 630 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,720 Speaker 2: been impacted by somebody driving around a truck throwing rocks 631 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,480 Speaker 2: at people. It had happened three or four times before 632 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 2: in the recent past, and they started tying it together. 633 00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:25,839 Speaker 2: And once they had these three gentlemen eighteen years old each, 634 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,600 Speaker 2: they were able to talk to them, and they went 635 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 2: to one and said, well, you know, they're all playing 636 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,279 Speaker 2: the finger at you. You're the new kid, Quack, You're 637 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,000 Speaker 2: the new guy in the group. These other two guys 638 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,160 Speaker 2: are best buds. They're saying you were you were the 639 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:42,120 Speaker 2: guy who tossed the rock, Quack, and he's like, no, 640 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,200 Speaker 2: I didn't throw anything. It was those two. And that's 641 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,560 Speaker 2: how they broke them. They just got them all separated 642 00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,040 Speaker 2: once they were able to. Eighteen year olds are not 643 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,080 Speaker 2: known for intellectual creativity for the most part, especially the 644 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,760 Speaker 2: kind of guys who go driving around at night throwing 645 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:59,280 Speaker 2: rocks at cars. You know they're going to leave breadcrumbs everywhere, 646 00:40:59,320 --> 00:40:59,719 Speaker 2: and they did. 647 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:04,120 Speaker 1: Go I gotta tell you, I am shocked first off 648 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:09,120 Speaker 1: by the intestinal fortitude of the prosecutor here. Oh yeah, 649 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 1: because and I think I can speak for you on 650 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:15,239 Speaker 1: this and our experience when we cover cases. No matter 651 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:19,799 Speaker 1: what platform we're on, the stuff that you and I 652 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: see together, we're always, i think, kind of shocked by 653 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:28,120 Speaker 1: the fact that more time was not given or they 654 00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:32,640 Speaker 1: weren't charged. This is one of those cases, Dave, where 655 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:38,440 Speaker 1: the prosecutor actually had the intestinal fortitude to move forward 656 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:43,719 Speaker 1: and I think hopefully send a message relative to what 657 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:47,319 Speaker 1: happened and can you can you kind of break down 658 00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,120 Speaker 1: the sentences that were handed out in this case, Dave. 659 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:53,600 Speaker 2: The reason we actually have this case right now is 660 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:58,520 Speaker 2: because this thing is just now being adjudicated. Okay, the 661 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:03,000 Speaker 2: conviction of Joseph Kinn. His case went to trial, his 662 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:08,160 Speaker 2: two cohorts and crime that night, Zachary Quack and Nicholas 663 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,600 Speaker 2: Carrol Chick. To give you an idea here, Nicholas Carol 664 00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,880 Speaker 2: Chick and Joseph Kunning were buddies. They've been together for 665 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:19,440 Speaker 2: a while. Zachary Quack was the third wheel. He had 666 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:21,680 Speaker 2: recently joined the pair and this was I think his 667 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,880 Speaker 2: first night out with them doing this type of damage. 668 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,840 Speaker 2: But prosecutor came after it, as you mentioned, the first 669 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:31,799 Speaker 2: degree murder charge. They were able to get Quack and 670 00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:36,600 Speaker 2: Carol Chick to take a deal they wanted. They wanted 671 00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:40,400 Speaker 2: to put the thrower of the rock away. They wanted 672 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,719 Speaker 2: first degree murder. And so once they got these guys 673 00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,360 Speaker 2: all separated, they were able to strike a deal with 674 00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:50,960 Speaker 2: Zachary Quack and with Nicholas Carroll Chick to testify against 675 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:54,640 Speaker 2: Joseph Cunning in court. And that's what happened. Joseph Cunning 676 00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,279 Speaker 2: was convicted a first gree murder. He will be saying, 677 00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:02,239 Speaker 2: by the way, first degree murder, attempted murder, and other 678 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:06,719 Speaker 2: lesser serious crimes for other rocks thrown that night at 679 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,720 Speaker 2: other vehicles. They were able to charge all these guys 680 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:16,399 Speaker 2: with these other crimes. Now in Colorado, convicted of first 681 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:21,520 Speaker 2: degree murder, it's automatic life without parole. So on June third, 682 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:23,840 Speaker 2: that's what he's going to be sentenced to. Joseph Cunning 683 00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:25,640 Speaker 2: will go to prison for the rest of his life 684 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,759 Speaker 2: without parole. But the two guys who turned on him, 685 00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:33,000 Speaker 2: Carol Zachary Quack and Nicholas Carroll Chick, well, they thought 686 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,480 Speaker 2: they were going to get off light. They thought they 687 00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:40,080 Speaker 2: were going to get off light. Nicholas Carrol Chick was 688 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:45,120 Speaker 2: sentenced to forty five years in prison. There were other charges. Again, 689 00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,600 Speaker 2: as I mentioned, you know, they got them for the 690 00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:49,920 Speaker 2: attempted murder. They also got them for the other charges, 691 00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,640 Speaker 2: but he sent us to forty five years in prison. 692 00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,640 Speaker 2: Quack who was the first to roll, he was sentenced 693 00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:01,200 Speaker 2: to thirty two years in prison. Each one of these 694 00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:07,840 Speaker 2: guys is now twenty years old, so that means Joseph 695 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,360 Speaker 2: Cunning is not getting out. They will automatically appeal. You 696 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:13,239 Speaker 2: know that this will be automatically appealed. But that's what 697 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:15,360 Speaker 2: they're sending us to right now. You're right. The prosecutor 698 00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,000 Speaker 2: went after this, he said, first agree murder, were going 699 00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:18,839 Speaker 2: after it, and they did. 700 00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:22,080 Speaker 1: Well, you know, Dave, I got to tell you, this 701 00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:26,120 Speaker 1: is not something that occurred in a vacuum. And I 702 00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,000 Speaker 1: know that they're not necessarily charged with this, but you know, 703 00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:33,680 Speaker 1: as a public servant, this da I think at least 704 00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:40,000 Speaker 1: he's sending a message because for me, based upon what 705 00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:44,120 Speaker 1: I've discussed with you, relative to going down the road 706 00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:49,239 Speaker 1: and not expecting things to occur like this, this equates 707 00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:53,839 Speaker 1: on one level to terrorism, where you're driving people to 708 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:57,560 Speaker 1: the point where they don't feel safe on the roads. 709 00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,160 Speaker 1: And we know that if people don't feel safe on 710 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:07,920 Speaker 1: the roads, everything stops. Commerce star stops, a regular lifestyle stops. 711 00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:11,600 Speaker 1: People sit at home, they're afraid. I harkened back to 712 00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:17,880 Speaker 1: you know, when the DC sniper happened, people were terrified. Remember, 713 00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,800 Speaker 1: people wouldn't even go pump gas, and rightly so, because 714 00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,200 Speaker 1: you know, you have people that were being shot at 715 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:28,080 Speaker 1: the pump, you know, and as you know, Mohammed in 716 00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,880 Speaker 1: that case wound up getting the death penalty in that case. 717 00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,000 Speaker 1: This is something that's taken very, very seriously, and I 718 00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:38,719 Speaker 1: hope that a message rings out loud and true from 719 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:43,279 Speaker 1: here on out relative to this particular instance, and more 720 00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:48,000 Speaker 1: importantly about the life of Alexa Bartel. Her life is 721 00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,800 Speaker 1: not defined by three idiots that were driving down the 722 00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:58,640 Speaker 1: road and cast a landscaping block at her, but unfortunately 723 00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,759 Speaker 1: it ended her life and everything that was on the 724 00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:06,879 Speaker 1: horizon for her. You can never get her back. I'm 725 00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,280 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Backs.