Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff,
Speaker 2: your weekly podcast that once every now and then is
Speaker 2: rerun episode like today, I took a week off so
Speaker 2: that someone could cut into my face to remove teeth
Speaker 2: at my request, and so I'm running a rerun. But
Speaker 2: it's a very special week because it's Mayday week, my
Speaker 2: favorite holiday besides the other holidays that I really like,
Speaker 2: which I also talk about a lot on this show,
Speaker 2: but this one is May Day. Well, not today as
Speaker 2: this is released, but this week as it's released, the
Speaker 2: international workers holiday that comes from a really cool background,
Speaker 2: a little bit tragic. They do call it the Haymarket tragedy.
Speaker 2: But if you've listened to the show before, you know
Speaker 2: that I'm not afraid of thinking tragedy is cool. That
Speaker 2: sounds weird, but this is the first ever episode that
Speaker 2: I ever recorded of this show that we're rerunning, and
Speaker 2: it's about May Day.
Speaker 3: Here you go.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff. I'm your host,
Speaker 2: Margaret Kiljoyan. Each week I take you way back into
Speaker 2: history to find people who were cool, who did stuff
Speaker 2: that was cool because they were cool, so they did
Speaker 2: cool stuff. This is part two of a two part
Speaker 2: series about heymarket the bomb that brings us the modern
Speaker 2: labor movement. So if you haven't already, you might want
Speaker 2: to do yourself a favor and go back and listen
Speaker 2: to part one.
Speaker 3: But I'm not the boss of you. Do whatever you want.
Speaker 2: And my guest this week is none other than Robert Evans. Robert, Hey,
Speaker 2: what's the what's the best way to describe you?
Speaker 1: Here?
Speaker 3: I am the boss of you? And if you listen
Speaker 3: to this one before listening to the first one, I
Speaker 3: will wreak a terrible vengeance upon your soul. Hell, And
Speaker 3: that's who I am. That's all I am is a force,
Speaker 3: a force for revenge of content. It's unclear what I am, Margaret,
Speaker 3: but I'm here to talk with you about this story.
Speaker 2: And other people who were forces for revenge in their
Speaker 2: own right.
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right, And the fact that revenge can
Speaker 3: sometimes lead to people being harmed that you didn't intend
Speaker 3: to harm, because once the consequences of actions can be unpredictable, exactly.
Speaker 2: And we also have our producer Sophie here. Sophie, you
Speaker 2: want to say Hi?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Robert, who Sophie, Robert, Sophie, Margaret, Hi.
Speaker 2: Hi, Okay, so we're going to get back to it.
Speaker 2: Where we last left our heroes. Two hundred folks were
Speaker 2: at an anarchist rally in Chicago. Cops had shown up,
Speaker 2: someone had thrown a bomb, and I was pretty proud
Speaker 2: of that.
Speaker 1: Cliffhanger, Yeah, great first week Cliffhanger.
Speaker 3: Mm hmmmm, all sakes solid. Sylvester Stallone film Cliffhanger. Oh,
Speaker 3: good movie. Not enough mountain climbing thrillers these days.
Speaker 2: Their bombs in it.
Speaker 3: I think there might have been. Actually, there's definitely like
Speaker 3: terrorists and stuff. My memories of it are fuzzy. I
Speaker 3: haven't seen it, so I was like twelve or so,
Speaker 3: but probably I think probably.
Speaker 2: So much like the bomb in the movie Cliffhanger, which
Speaker 2: I've definitely seen this bombly, Yes, Yeah, his bomb shattered
Speaker 2: windows for blocks around and one cop was killed immediately
Speaker 2: on the spot. The explosion was so loud that the
Speaker 2: mayor heard it from his bed. He had like ridden
Speaker 2: home on his horse, and then he got undressed and
Speaker 2: went to bed, and then he heard the explosion, and
Speaker 2: then they went to the window and he heard gunshots,
Speaker 2: so he ran back out. The cops drew revolvers and
Speaker 2: they started firing wildly. Six more cops were killed. All
Speaker 2: of them were killed by other cops.
Speaker 3: Awesome critical support.
Speaker 2: And so because some of the anarchists were armed, right,
Speaker 2: the anarchists at the time were often armed, and some
Speaker 2: of them might have even shot back. But like all
Speaker 2: the friend evidence of all of the bodies and all
Speaker 2: of the scene is like really strongly on the side
Speaker 2: that probably all of the cops were killed by all
Speaker 2: the other cops who were overreacting, and like one light
Speaker 2: post was entirely full of bullet holes that were all
Speaker 2: coming from the direction of the cops, so they like
Speaker 2: removed it and tried to destroy the evidence immediately.
Speaker 3: That's just all such cop shit.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: This is like the it's not the origin of cop shit,
Speaker 2: the origin of cop shit. Well, actually you covered very well,
Speaker 2: but it ties into some origin.
Speaker 3: The origin. This is pretty early on in the concept
Speaker 3: of cop shit being a thing. Yeah, these guys were
Speaker 3: really breaking new ground in terms of shooting each other
Speaker 3: to death. There's a mutual friend of ours. I think
Speaker 3: Molly conjure goes through like the websites that are like
Speaker 3: end of Watch for cops and like boy howdy, a
Speaker 3: lot of cops die because other cops shoot them when
Speaker 3: they're doing like training in rooms and they're not like
Speaker 3: practicing proper guns safety to each other. It's like had
Speaker 3: an uncommon way for a cop to go out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh god. And that's how six of them went out,
Speaker 2: or eventually I think seven. One of them died like
Speaker 2: two years later from the wounds, well one of them.
Speaker 2: So it's called a riot, but it wasn't a riot.
Speaker 2: It was either a short and bloody massacre or at best,
Speaker 2: it was a short and bloody, pretty much one sided battle.
Speaker 3: There was no rioting at any point, really, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. It was all over within like five minutes,
Speaker 2: and there was no records of civilian casualties because basically
Speaker 2: everyone who was shot there was like I'm not saying shit,
Speaker 2: and they like dragged their friends' bodies away and like
Speaker 2: some of them went to the hospital, but most of
Speaker 2: them just went off to go find somewhere else because
Speaker 2: they all knew what would happen if they showed up
Speaker 2: and said I was at this thing. Okay, So Samuel Fielden,
Speaker 2: the speaker, who's already having a rough night, you know,
Speaker 2: he's like going last, he's following a blowhard.
Speaker 3: Yeah, boy, this is as a public speaker. This is
Speaker 3: definitely a rough, rough, rough gig crowd.
Speaker 2: I know, although, okay, I'll go ahead and spoil that
Speaker 2: he actually has the best result of any of these people,
Speaker 2: of any of the people who get arrested. But he
Speaker 2: gets shot in the knee right away. And then as
Speaker 2: far as I can tell, a detective like snuck up
Speaker 2: and tried to assassinate the earlier speaker, August Spies, and
Speaker 2: then August Spies was saved by his brother Henry, who
Speaker 2: like got in the way or whatever and got shot
Speaker 2: in the groin for his trouble of saving his brother's life.
Speaker 3: Boy.
Speaker 2: And yeah, so one of the things that's kind of
Speaker 2: wild about it is that if the cops, if they'd
Speaker 2: waited a few more minutes, the meetium was basically over,
Speaker 2: it was raining field and was basically done.
Speaker 3: They were speaker up there like people are done. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's kind of weird to try and think
Speaker 2: about it. Doesn't do you any good, but to try
Speaker 2: and think about how differently the history of Chicago and
Speaker 2: the US would have been if the cops had waited
Speaker 2: like a few minutes. But the thing is they probably
Speaker 2: weren't going to some folks back then and now think
Speaker 2: that the cops were going to attack the crowd. Whether
Speaker 2: or not they were going to like rolling with truncheons,
Speaker 2: or whether or not they were going to just like
Speaker 2: open fire is kind of anyone's guess. But the guy
Speaker 2: who was in charge, Captain Bonfield, he had been itching
Speaker 2: to stamp out the anarchists like once and for all
Speaker 2: since earlier that day when he had like a council
Speaker 2: of war, and he basically he waited until the mayor
Speaker 2: was gone and the crowd was at its weakest and
Speaker 2: then attacked. His nickname was Blackjack because he liked beating
Speaker 2: people so much with his Blackjack as Billy Club that
Speaker 2: it became his name for him. Yeah, he had such
Speaker 2: a reputation of beating people that at one point, some
Speaker 2: like owners of a gas works were like, hey, could
Speaker 2: you stop beating up our employees even when they're on strike.
Speaker 2: We actually need them, We need them to.
Speaker 3: Be a breaking too many of their boats.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it might have wound up a massacre either way,
Speaker 2: whether or not the bomb was thrown, but it's it's
Speaker 2: hard to saying. Oh, and then one witness who was
Speaker 2: pro cop said that Bonfield during a wild every cops
Speaker 2: shooting every which direction, grabbed a second gun off of
Speaker 2: a fallen cop and just started dual wielding into the
Speaker 2: crowd's So this guy is probably more many cops than
Speaker 2: any of the Chago anarchists.
Speaker 3: I'll bet he dropped a couple of them. Guns don't
Speaker 3: work great when you use them that way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, And so none of the anarchists who stood
Speaker 2: trial had thrown the bomb, but it's not like they
Speaker 2: were shy in the advocacy of dynamite.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: In the years building up to Haymarket, one anarchist professor
Speaker 2: from New York wrote into one of the Chicago Anarchist
Speaker 2: papers saying that he carried a bomb around in his
Speaker 2: pocket all of the time to dissuade cops from approaching.
Speaker 3: Just always be a potential suicide bomber. That's how you
Speaker 3: avoid arrest.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which seems like it would work, but eventually backfire.
Speaker 3: You know, it seems like it would work briefly.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Quote was, you can learn to make tri nitro glycerine,
Speaker 2: and if you carry two or three pounds of it
Speaker 2: with you, people will respect you much more than if
Speaker 2: you carry a pistol my God. In another letter, another
Speaker 2: person advocating for the use of dynamite wrote, dynamite of
Speaker 2: all the good stuff, this is the stuff. A pound
Speaker 2: of this good stuff beats a bushel of ballots all hollow.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And so I bring this up because it's like,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of things that I love about the
Speaker 2: Chicago anarchists, but I think they were kind of just
Speaker 2: wrong about dynamite.
Speaker 3: That's probably a little bit. Look. Will dynamite stop you
Speaker 3: from getting mugged? Perhaps? Yeah? Will it stop people from
Speaker 3: fucking with you? Perhaps yes? Is the best way to
Speaker 3: stop people from getting fucked with you carrying a tool
Speaker 3: that indiscriminately would destroy large chunks of a neighborhood if detonated, Perhaps.
Speaker 2: Not right exactly. You just need to on threat modeling
Speaker 2: a little better. I feel like that's what they want good.
Speaker 3: At I would say, like it would be a little
Speaker 3: bit like I mean, I I do intend to one
Speaker 3: day chop a twenty millimeter anti tank gun down to
Speaker 3: something that's legally a pistol and concealed carry it in
Speaker 3: case I get robbed, yeah, by obviously fighting vehicle on
Speaker 3: my way home from the grocery store. But I don't
Speaker 3: pretend that's good, like a good idea.
Speaker 2: Right, And I think at some level some of these
Speaker 2: people knew that they were like participating in radical rhetoric
Speaker 2: because they liked radical rhetoric.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it's fun, because it's it sounds cool as shit. Yeah,
Speaker 3: Like that's definitely a character you want to put in
Speaker 3: a novel or like a movie's like the guy who's
Speaker 3: just like yeah, I mean you introduced him. He's like
Speaker 3: walking home in the early morning, and this like cop
Speaker 3: sees him and like notices that he's some sort of
Speaker 3: like weirdo radical or or even ideally someone else is
Speaker 3: getting like fucked with by the police or by like
Speaker 3: some militia chuds or something, and he like walks in
Speaker 3: and they're like, well, what are you going to do
Speaker 3: about it? Then he opens his jacket and he's just
Speaker 3: strapped with dynamite. Like yeah, absolutely, you can totally like
Speaker 3: definitely an intriguing character, but right, exectively, maybe not the
Speaker 3: best idea.
Speaker 2: And so dynamite had actually been used in labor struggle
Speaker 2: before this, but no previous time had it targeted people
Speaker 2: at all. A couple of times it was used to
Speaker 2: destroy property, including once in the Washington Territory where someone
Speaker 2: dynamited the empty house of a guy who was foreclosing
Speaker 2: people out of mortgaged homes and evicting tenants from their
Speaker 2: rental homes.
Speaker 3: Oh you know, I was just talking with it could
Speaker 3: happen here with Jake Hanrahan about the riots in Cyprus
Speaker 3: he was at and they're doing a version of this
Speaker 3: where they're destroying, like using incendiaries to destroy people's vacation
Speaker 3: homes because it's like making the cost of living untenable,
Speaker 3: like bombing vacation homes, you know, all right, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I have no I have no issue with that. You'll
Speaker 3: notice that I'm not condemning that tactic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but this is the first time that a bomb
Speaker 2: is thrown in a labor struggle that I'm aware of,
Speaker 2: at least in the United States. And it so this
Speaker 2: causes America's very first red scare, which we have a
Speaker 2: long and proud tradition of, and all across the country,
Speaker 2: everyone freaks out and it's like these damn anarchists and
Speaker 2: their dynamite and something must be done, don't you know,
Speaker 2: And conspiracies go wild. The anarchists are going to level
Speaker 2: the city it's it's kind of hard to overstate how
Speaker 2: unhinged this whole frenzy wasah, And this is actually where
Speaker 2: the reputation of anarchists in the US comes from. Basically,
Speaker 2: the not picnics, not mutual aid societies, not supporting one
Speaker 2: another in labor struggle, just bombs. One hundred percent bombs.
Speaker 2: That's all an anarchist is is a walking bomb, which
Speaker 2: I guess is kind of like today and like smashing windows.
Speaker 3: In total fairness, some of the anarchists were not We're
Speaker 3: not doing anything to dissuade that attitude.
Speaker 2: It's true.
Speaker 3: Well, I am literally a walking bomb. I always have
Speaker 3: to get on me in case I need to.
Speaker 2: True it's true. Okay, So, to quote Paul Averich, the historian,
Speaker 2: about how the New York Times and other newspapers handled
Speaker 2: all of this, the New York Times offered the following prescription.
Speaker 2: In the early stages of an acute outbreak of anarchy,
Speaker 2: a gatling gun, or if the case be severe, too
Speaker 2: is the sovereign remedy. Later on, hemp and judicious doses
Speaker 2: has an admirable effect in preventing the spread of the disease.
Speaker 2: The Philadelphia Inquirer recommended a mailed hand to each of
Speaker 2: the anarchists that America was not shelter for cutthroats and thieves,
Speaker 2: while the Louisville Courier Journal insisted that the blatant cattle
Speaker 2: should be strung up. The sooner the better. Judge Lynch
Speaker 2: is a tremendous expounder of the law. It is no
Speaker 2: time for half measures, agreed the Springfield Republican, urging the
Speaker 2: authorities to make an example of the ring leaders. There
Speaker 2: are no good anarchists except dead anarchists. The Saint Louis
Speaker 2: Globe Democrat chimed in Globe is another one of those
Speaker 2: things that every newspaper had to be called Globe.
Speaker 3: It was like one of the five were talking about him.
Speaker 3: They're talking about like hanging people, right. They're not saying, yes,
Speaker 3: get them stoned, right, Okay? Yes?
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, Yeah, I mean that would probably work. If
Speaker 2: I was nervous about a bunch of anarchists who were
Speaker 2: threatening me, I might just buy them all weed. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I feel like they would his story anymore. Not a
Speaker 2: bad way to get anarchists on your side.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: In Chicago, the cops raided everywhere. They raided like fifty
Speaker 2: gathering places. They raided people's homes. They never had any
Speaker 2: kind of warrants, They didn't bother. The prosecutor who later
Speaker 2: tried the case gave the cops permission by saying, make
Speaker 2: the raids first and look up the laws later. In
Speaker 2: one house, they confiscated a kid's pillowcases because they were red.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, hundreds of people were arrested and tortured. Many of
Speaker 2: them were offered bribes for information, but almost everyone refused
Speaker 2: to cooperate.
Speaker 3: Some people to say, live in their heads, rent free
Speaker 3: until you talked about all the folks that they tortured. Yeah.
Speaker 2: For two months, all constitutional rights for everyone in Chicago
Speaker 2: were dropped based illegally like now was opened. Papers were
Speaker 2: shut down, Union gatherings were dispersed, public gatherings were banned.
Speaker 2: It just there was no rule of law in Chicago.
Speaker 3: It does kind of seem like historically an awful lot
Speaker 3: of people are willing to end the concept of civil rights.
Speaker 3: As soon as someone says there's anarchists.
Speaker 2: About right, which has some deep irony. Right, the anarchists
Speaker 2: are like law is bad, and they're like, no, we
Speaker 2: think laws really bad, and that's why we're going to
Speaker 2: suspend it, to go around and beat you all up
Speaker 2: and arrest you. And they arrested basically all the editors
Speaker 2: of all the anarchist papers except Albert Parsons, who fucked
Speaker 2: off to Wisconsin. And then Lucy Parsons managed to get
Speaker 2: arrested four times in the ensuing weeks. And you'll be
Speaker 2: shocked to know that they said racist and sexist shit
Speaker 2: to her when they arrested her. Cops, I know at
Speaker 2: one point.
Speaker 3: Well, this one's kind of bad to take my thin
Speaker 3: blue line flag down.
Speaker 2: Well, they broke into her house, tied up her six
Speaker 2: year old kid on the floor, and then started spinning
Speaker 2: him around while screaming basically, where's your dad. We're going
Speaker 2: to hang him.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Jesus fucking Christ. Wow wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah. In the end, a grand jury indicted ten of
Speaker 2: them to stand trial. Ten of the anarchists. One of
Speaker 2: them went state's evidence.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: Most of the rest were editors and printers at three
Speaker 2: of the newspapers, which was the English language The Alarm,
Speaker 2: the German language Arbeter de Tongue, which means worker paper.
Speaker 2: Because again, really really literal naming schemes.
Speaker 3: Yeah again, and your pronunciation was perfect as as an
Speaker 3: expert of the German language, I think.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: And then the third paper, dare anarchist, which means the anarchist.
Speaker 3: You probably figured that part.
Speaker 2: Out of the remaining people who got indicted, one of
Speaker 2: them was a young fire brand, and one of them
Speaker 2: was a guy who just took off. He just was like,
Speaker 2: I'm gone. They arrested him for like, his name was
Speaker 2: Rudolph Schnab and a lot of people say he's the
Speaker 2: one who threw the bomb. I actually don't believe this,
Speaker 2: and I'll get it more into that later. He was
Speaker 2: arrested in the aftermath of all of this, and then
Speaker 2: like but he spent like ten hours in the sweat box.
Speaker 2: That ended up calling it the police where they put
Speaker 2: everyone in the sweatbox, and that's where they tortured them.
Speaker 2: He refused to talk. He was released, He completely just
Speaker 2: fucked off. He politely went and told his boss that
Speaker 2: he wasn't going to come into work for a bit,
Speaker 2: and then he just disappeared a gentleman.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 2: He left Chicago. He made his way across the border
Speaker 2: into Canada, and then like some indigenous folks and then
Speaker 2: later international anarchists smuggled him to Europe and then South America,
Speaker 2: where he lived out the rest.
Speaker 3: Of his days in peace, and well that's good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And he basically everyone was like, oh, this is
Speaker 2: the guy who threw the bomb. And I think actually,
Speaker 2: in some ways it kind of worked out for people
Speaker 2: to have everyone think it was this guy.
Speaker 3: But he's out. Yeah. Yeah, but it.
Speaker 2: Wasn't him, and he just didn't want to stand trial
Speaker 2: and he got to live a long and happy life
Speaker 2: for having made that decision. So they went to trial
Speaker 2: and it was a complete eight of them did and
Speaker 2: it was a complete sham. None of the eight defendants
Speaker 2: were accused of actually throwing the bomb. It was a
Speaker 2: murder trial and none of them were actually I mean,
Speaker 2: they were accused of doing it, but they didn't say
Speaker 2: you threw the bomb, but they said you're guilty of
Speaker 2: murder because you're you, because you're an anarchist. And the
Speaker 2: judge who oversaw it was completely committed to conviction rather
Speaker 2: than obeying the law. Witnesses for the prosecution were usually
Speaker 2: paid by the prosecution. The jury was selected specifically in
Speaker 2: order to convict them. And we know all of this
Speaker 2: because later the governor of Illinois wrote a pardon for
Speaker 2: everyone who was left, and he just it's a seventeen
Speaker 2: thousand word pardon that he wrote, being like Jesus Christ,
Speaker 2: everything that happened in this trial was wrong and basically
Speaker 2: a crime.
Speaker 3: That's like three and a half episodes of Behind the
Speaker 3: Bastards for a part.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's basically one of the most rigged trials
Speaker 2: in American history, which is saying something. I feel like
Speaker 2: they really went the extra mile here, and they had
Speaker 2: to find a lawyer to defend them, and everyone was like,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to fucking defend these people. I will
Speaker 2: never work again. But they found this guy who's I
Speaker 2: think really cool. He's one of my cool people. He
Speaker 2: was not an anarchist, he was a moderate, and his
Speaker 2: name was Captain William Black. He'd been born a Southerner
Speaker 2: and then he betrayed his family as a teenager to
Speaker 2: volunteer for the Union Army.
Speaker 3: So already he's kind of liking this guy. Yeah, I know,
Speaker 3: so it's pretty base from the start.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was just this like he was like
Speaker 2: a rising star corporate lawyer, but he believed in the law.
Speaker 2: And they came to him and they were like, look,
Speaker 2: no one wants to take our case, and you're a
Speaker 2: really good lawyer, and we're not guilty, and it's so obvious,
Speaker 2: and he like did some soul searching. He's like, all right,
Speaker 2: I'm going to tank my entire career to defend you
Speaker 2: for barely any money. And he spent like two years
Speaker 2: of his life working on their case and tanked his career.
Speaker 2: It didn't recover for decades afterwards.
Speaker 3: Wow, what a fucking hero. Good for him.
Speaker 2: I know, I like this guy. And then Albert Parsons
Speaker 2: turned himself in. I think it was like the first
Speaker 2: day of trial or something is very early on he
Speaker 2: just is like, Okay, I need to show up and
Speaker 2: stand in solidarity with these people. But also he thought
Speaker 2: he was going to win because it was so obviously
Speaker 2: a bullshit case against him, And so I think for
Speaker 2: some at the core of his heart, he still actually
Speaker 2: believed in the American legal system, which was entirely naive.
Speaker 2: After a few months of trial, and they proved the
Speaker 2: defense proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that none
Speaker 2: of the defendants had made or thrown the bomb in question.
Speaker 2: The jury took three hours to return with a guilty verdict.
Speaker 2: Seven of them were sentenced to hang. One man, oscar
Speaker 2: Neve was sentenced to fifteen years in prison. I think
Speaker 2: I think only a tiny handful of people, maybe a
Speaker 2: few lawyers and the rare politician like actually believe in law.
Speaker 2: The judge and the prosecutor and the jury clearly didn't.
Speaker 2: It was just a tool to be used to achieve
Speaker 2: their goal. The prosecutor and his final address to the
Speaker 2: jury said, they are no more guilty than the thousands
Speaker 2: who follow them. Gentlemen of the jury. Convict these men,
Speaker 2: make examples of them, hang them, and you save our institutions,
Speaker 2: our society.
Speaker 3: Our institutions are valid because we are happy to violate
Speaker 3: every tenant of them in order to blame these people
Speaker 3: to protect our institutions which are valid. Yeah, exactly. It
Speaker 3: really makes you feel for Black as like a guy
Speaker 3: who believes in institutions, but like, really, I am curious
Speaker 3: to learn more about what was going on in this
Speaker 3: dude's soul as this all shook out. It could not
Speaker 3: have been an emotionally easy thing to handle.
Speaker 2: It was really hard for him. The Paul Average book
Speaker 2: talks about him a lot actually, and talks about how
Speaker 2: like hard on it was on him on him and
Speaker 2: his wife and like just how society treated him and
Speaker 2: all of these things, but how he ended up basically
Speaker 2: like friends with these people. Even he was like, I
Speaker 2: don't I don't agree with what they want, but I
Speaker 2: believe that they are like honest and upstanding people who
Speaker 2: are doing what they believe is right.
Speaker 3: And there's a lesson there too for anarchists in the
Speaker 3: the value of speaking to moderates and sometimes they wind
Speaker 3: up torpedoing their entire life to defend you. You know. Yep,
Speaker 3: that's also a nice message to take out.
Speaker 2: Totally Okay. So before the sentencing, they were each the
Speaker 2: judge allowed each one to make a speech, and the
Speaker 2: speech has lasted for days, mostly because Albert Parsons was there.
Speaker 3: Right, but this guy, Yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Feel bad making fun of this dude who's like he's
Speaker 2: gonna die, He's gonna die.
Speaker 3: Yeah. No, I mean, look, no speech at a protest
Speaker 3: should last more than five minutes, but I think days
Speaker 3: is the right amount of time for this sort of
Speaker 3: speech to last. Yes, you can sit with it, you know.
Speaker 2: And if you want to read these speeches, then they
Speaker 2: are the Haymarket martyrs are the advertisers who support this
Speaker 2: show because they're still alive and with us. And here
Speaker 2: are the ads that they are providing to us for
Speaker 2: you to hear.
Speaker 3: Are you walking down the street with three to four
Speaker 3: pounds of dynamite on your body? Why not? Oh, No,
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Speaker 2: Exactly. Here's the rest of the ads. Okay, we're back,
Speaker 2: And if you want to hear the rest of the
Speaker 2: speeches besides the ones that advertise on this show, I
Speaker 2: recommend that you go. If there's one thing that you
Speaker 2: follow up and read about Haymarket. The speeches are really
Speaker 2: beautiful pieces. And now I get to introduce to you
Speaker 2: all the defendants and it's kind of fun, kind of
Speaker 2: interesting people. They're mostly German. Fortunately I can pronounce most
Speaker 2: of their names. So August Spies went first. We met
Speaker 2: him some already and he was the editor of the
Speaker 2: arbiter Zetongue. He was the oldest of five kids. He
Speaker 2: was born in central Germany. He was a Sagittarius. He
Speaker 2: was a happy childhood. He was raised to be a
Speaker 2: forester for the government like his dad until his dad died,
Speaker 2: and then he left school and emigrated to the US,
Speaker 2: and then he became an upholsterer. He opened his own shop.
Speaker 2: He saw someone give a lecture on socialism and he
Speaker 2: was like, oh, that actually makes some sense. And then
Speaker 2: that eighteen seventy seven strike happened and he was like, oh,
Speaker 2: that really makes some sense. And soon enough he found
Speaker 2: himself an anarchist and he joined the leirand ver Veren
Speaker 2: and kind of ironically for the fight for the eight
Speaker 2: hour workday, he works like twelve to sixteen hour days
Speaker 2: at his German paper, and.
Speaker 3: That is I mean, that's the thing with anarchists. It's like, no,
Speaker 3: we don't want to work an eight hour work day,
Speaker 3: but if I'm doing the thing I want to do,
Speaker 3: then I will work for like nineteen hours a day
Speaker 3: of course. Yeah, I want to be doing exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And he's this guy and he actually keeps a circle
Speaker 2: bomb on his desk in his office, and we don't
Speaker 2: know whether or not the circle bomb was actually like
Speaker 2: one of those old timey bombs circle and has a
Speaker 2: little fuse coming out of it. That was probably the
Speaker 2: type of bomb that was thrown at the cops. We
Speaker 2: don't know whether or not the bomb in his office
Speaker 2: had had any dynamite in it or not, And the
Speaker 2: historical record would really like you to know that August
Speaker 2: SPIE's was fucking hot.
Speaker 3: That's good. Yeah, you know, I was going to ask,
Speaker 3: because I'm incapable of actually caring about people if they
Speaker 3: were not hot.
Speaker 2: Right, well, you're in luck.
Speaker 3: Actually, that's why I have created a new hot or
Speaker 3: not that is specifically for the victims of war crimes,
Speaker 3: so you can tell if you need to feel bad
Speaker 3: about a specific war crime by knowing if they were
Speaker 3: hot or not.
Speaker 2: That's excellent. I look forward to using this service.
Speaker 3: It's sponsored by Microsoft.
Speaker 2: So August SPIE's was known as a ladies man. He's
Speaker 2: one of the only people wasn't already married at the
Speaker 2: start of all this thing. And he was, yeah, but
Speaker 2: he was also he was sardonic and haughty, but he
Speaker 2: also refused to lie. And he basically just like walked
Speaker 2: around and he threw around his charisma and charmed.
Speaker 3: Women and men and they did.
Speaker 2: And he once spoke in front of Congress about socialism
Speaker 2: and he just like went and he was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: we're gonna have a revolution, and he was like.
Speaker 3: You get this guy's number.
Speaker 2: He was like, we're not going to make the revolution.
Speaker 2: We're anticipating the revolution. We are His quote was birds
Speaker 2: of the coming storm, and it.
Speaker 3: Was oh, oh, oh, I know, I know, and that's good.
Speaker 2: Someone in Congress is like, well, why do you hate
Speaker 2: the individual with your socialism or whatever? And he's like,
Speaker 2: are you kidding me? It's the capitalists who treat workers
Speaker 2: like they're just cogs in the machine. And to quote
Speaker 2: from his final address to the court, not to Congress,
Speaker 2: but when he's sentenced to death. If you think that
Speaker 2: by hanging us you can stamp out the labor movement,
Speaker 2: the movement from which the downtroden millions, the million two
Speaker 2: oil and live in want and misery, the wage slaves
Speaker 2: expect salvation. If that is your opinion, then hang us here.
Speaker 2: You will tread upon a spark. But here and there,
Speaker 2: and behind us, and in front of you and everywhere,
Speaker 2: the flames will blaze up. It is a subterranean fire.
Speaker 2: You cannot put it out.
Speaker 3: Holy shit, that's I know. That's that's hot girl shit. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's some hot girl shit. Yeah. Oh my god, did
Speaker 3: he write did he do his own like writing. Is
Speaker 3: this all him or does he have like, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's team. That's kind of his thing, is he's
Speaker 2: he's one of the Yeah, the editors of these papers.
Speaker 2: They're also like publishing their own shit a ton. Sure,
Speaker 2: these people have been giving speeches and like writing propaganda.
Speaker 2: That's like there their thing, you know. Which is why
Speaker 2: I think that they're both leaders of the movement and
Speaker 2: not is because they were actually more the propagandas who
Speaker 2: got put on trial in this trial rather than like
Speaker 2: necessarily the people who are organizing and like planning actions
Speaker 2: and stuff. Okay, so Michael Schwab goes and gives his
Speaker 2: speech next. And this guy's not as much of a talker.
Speaker 2: He's just a quiet, thoughtful man behind a big dark beard.
Speaker 2: He's married, he's a father of two. He's like just
Speaker 2: a hard worker for the revolution. He's a reporter and
Speaker 2: editor for the Arbaderzetongue, and he ran the itwpa's library.
Speaker 2: He was just basically seen as a very gentle He
Speaker 2: was thirty two at the time of the bombing. And
Speaker 2: he was born in Germany with a peasant mother and
Speaker 2: a tradesman father, and he had a happy childhood until
Speaker 2: and this feels like a pattern. Maybe it's just the
Speaker 2: nineteenth century. His mom died when he was eight and
Speaker 2: his dad died when he was twelve.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, they made you know what, they made it
Speaker 3: a decent chunk of time. Yeah, it's true, kid, you're
Speaker 3: gonna have to carry yourself across that finish line. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And so when he's like, I don't know, thirteen or something,
Speaker 2: and he apprentices to a bookbinder, and he starts working
Speaker 2: thirteen to seventeen hour days.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then he joins a book binding union, and then
Speaker 2: the Social Democrat Party, and then and he decides that
Speaker 2: political liberty without economic freedom, as a mocking lie is
Speaker 2: like his big thing. He moves to Chicago. He quickly
Speaker 2: learns that American capitalism is no better than European which
Speaker 2: actually happens to a lot of people. A lot of
Speaker 2: the immigrants are like, oh, land of opportunity, and they're like, what, No,
Speaker 2: this is just as bad. I feel betrayed, And shortly
Speaker 2: enough he becomes an anarchist. In his speech at sentencing,
Speaker 2: he said violence is one thing and anarchy another. In
Speaker 2: the present state of society, violence is used on all
Speaker 2: sides and therefore we advocate the use of violence against violence,
Speaker 2: but against violence only as a matter as a necessary
Speaker 2: means of defense. Then you get oscar Nebe. He was
Speaker 2: another worker at the arbiterszetongue really wasn't a good time
Speaker 2: to be in the newspaper business, and he was the
Speaker 2: only one who wasn't sentenced to death. He'd been born
Speaker 2: in the US to German immigrants, and he worked basically
Speaker 2: every kind of job from cook to tinsmith. So then
Speaker 2: he was unemployed for a while, and at the time
Speaker 2: of his arrest he was a yeast peddler. He I
Speaker 2: don't even know what kind of yeast, but he would
Speaker 2: go around to a car art in the street, just
Speaker 2: like get your.
Speaker 3: Yeast east for sale.
Speaker 4: Yeast for sale, Yeah, like fixit with your dynamite, Robert.
Speaker 2: The main thing that he wanted people to know at
Speaker 2: is very short speech was that he wanted to be
Speaker 2: hanged too. His quote is for I think it is
Speaker 2: more honorable to die suddenly than to be killed by inches.
Speaker 2: I have a family and children. If they know their
Speaker 2: father is dead, they will bury him. They can go
Speaker 2: to the grave and kneel down by the side of it.
Speaker 2: But they can't go to the penitentiary and see their
Speaker 2: father who was convicted for a crime that he has
Speaker 2: had nothing to do with.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, sada know, hard to argue with the logic though.
Speaker 2: To and then his wife died while he was in
Speaker 2: prison and he wasn't allowed to go to a funeral.
Speaker 3: Jeez.
Speaker 2: And then we get Adolph Fisher. Adolph Fisher's not a
Speaker 2: common name.
Speaker 3: Any close to being a bad name.
Speaker 2: Yeah. He edited Der Anarchist, which was the more radical
Speaker 2: paper than Arbiter's Etongue, and he advocated less for a
Speaker 2: mass movement and more for autonomous actions by individuals and collectives.
Speaker 2: He was born in Germany. He was a second generation socialist.
Speaker 2: He moved to America worked as a typographer, and then
Speaker 2: as soon as he moved to Chicago, he joined the
Speaker 2: leer Veren, the militia, and when he was arrested he
Speaker 2: was armed. He had a presumably legally both a revolver
Speaker 2: and a dagger, and then one cop took his revolver out,
Speaker 2: pointed at his head. Another cop put the dagger to
Speaker 2: his chest, and they only didn't kill him when the
Speaker 2: lieutenant intervened because they wanted him to stand trial. Instead,
Speaker 2: and in prison, two of his co defendants, who didn't
Speaker 2: speak English, entrusted him to translate their autobiographies. And basically
Speaker 2: he was this like he just worked constantly and to
Speaker 2: give money to the cause, and he was really looking
Speaker 2: forward to the revolution. And he gave the shortest speech
Speaker 2: of them all, which included, I was tried here in
Speaker 2: this room for murder, and I was convicted of anarchy.
Speaker 2: I protest against being sentenced to death because I have
Speaker 2: not been found guilty of murder. However, if I am
Speaker 2: to die on account of being an anarchist, on account
Speaker 2: of my love for liberty, fraternity, and equality, I will
Speaker 2: not remonstrate. If death is the penalty for our love
Speaker 2: of freedom of the human race, then I say openly
Speaker 2: I have forfeited my life, but a murderer I am not.
Speaker 2: I just really like all these speeches.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, these were really really good lines. All right.
Speaker 2: Then we get to lewis Ling. Lewis Ling is a
Speaker 2: crowd pleaser. He was the youngest, he was twenty one
Speaker 2: when the bomb was thrown, and he had a watertight alibi.
Speaker 2: There's no way he could have thrown the bomb. Do
Speaker 2: you know why he couldn't have thrown the bomb.
Speaker 3: Was he making more pomps?
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was, he was. He was too busy at
Speaker 2: home making bombs.
Speaker 3: Incredible, I know.
Speaker 2: And when the cops came to arrest him, he tried
Speaker 2: to go down fighting, and he almost killed one officer
Speaker 2: with his bare hands before the other one like knocked
Speaker 2: him down.
Speaker 3: Unbelievable, What a chad.
Speaker 2: And then The New York Times, which was completely untrustworthy
Speaker 2: of a source at the time, especially back then, says
Speaker 2: that while he was on the carriage on the way
Speaker 2: to jail, he basically said, it all would have been
Speaker 2: worth it if only I had been able to kill
Speaker 2: that police officer, which frankly he might have said.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I looked based on the man you've described, I
Speaker 3: don't think the police maybe lied about that one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: And that sounds in line with our boy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay. So he had just shown up in the
Speaker 2: US ten months earlier, before all this shit happens. He
Speaker 2: had been born in Germany, and then he had a
Speaker 2: happy childhood until you'll be shocked to know. Well, first
Speaker 2: his dad was thrown out of work for a workplace accident,
Speaker 2: and then he died shortly thereafter. And he and his
Speaker 2: sibling and his mother fought starvation every single day. He
Speaker 2: fled Europe to avoid the draft, and then he joined
Speaker 2: the Carpenter's Union soon found work as an organizer. People
Speaker 2: liked him. He was really scrupulous, honest, and up front,
Speaker 2: which was basically universal among all the Chicago anarchists, which
Speaker 2: I think fucking rules, because if you're going to be
Speaker 2: all about something, just be honest. I mean sometimes you
Speaker 2: go lie to avoid certain situations.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's like it's like it was a Bob
Speaker 3: Dylan that said that to live outside the law, a
Speaker 3: man must be honest. I forget where that came from, but.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's that's what these people are doing. Okay,
Speaker 2: And I know you're you're wondering where lewis Ling lays
Speaker 2: in the relative hotness of the various defendants.
Speaker 3: I am literally incapable of caring about this story emotionally
Speaker 3: until I learned.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, if you want to, should google lewis Ling.
Speaker 2: It's two g's and ling, And don't use the photo
Speaker 2: from Wikipedia as the example. Find one where his hair
Speaker 2: is shorter and he doesn't really have a beard.
Speaker 3: He kind of looks like Elijah Wood Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 3: He's got a little bit a little bit of a like,
Speaker 3: kind of a broader chin, but like a little bit
Speaker 3: of that Elijah Wood vibe his teeth zone. You could
Speaker 3: like cast Elijah Wood to play this guy and it
Speaker 3: would work pretty well.
Speaker 2: I would love to watch that.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: And in case you're wondering whether I wonder whether any
Speaker 2: of the Haymarket folks were queer, I want to read
Speaker 2: you this description of lewis Ling, written by William Holmes,
Speaker 2: another anarchist in their circle. Ling was one of the
Speaker 2: handsomest men this writer has ever met. His well shaped head,
Speaker 2: crowned with a wealth of curly chestnut hair, his fine
Speaker 2: blue eyes, his peach and white complexion, and straight regular
Speaker 2: features made him a fit model for a Greek god,
Speaker 2: while his athletic form and general activity showed him to
Speaker 2: be possessed of an abundance of physical vigor and health.
Speaker 3: Well, that just sounds straight as hell to me, Margaret, Yeah, totally, yeah,
Speaker 3: and fortunately it was kind of sound super straight.
Speaker 2: Yeah, describing the straightest situation in the world. And to
Speaker 2: be fair, like heterosexuality and homosexuality like didn't exist as
Speaker 2: concepts at this point.
Speaker 3: No, and so homosexuality. The word was invented by a
Speaker 3: German dude in like the eighteen nineties.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that sounds about right, But I've got my head
Speaker 2: canon and that's what matters here. But he was also
Speaker 2: he was a sex symbol in the anarchist scene. Like
Speaker 2: younger men adopted his haircut and his quote lithe way
Speaker 2: of walking around the ballroom at all the anarchists balls
Speaker 2: to get called his name was like the highest compliment
Speaker 2: you could give someone, and his speech was the fieriest
Speaker 2: of the bunch. He delivered it in German, and he
Speaker 2: ended it with I'm not gonna do the whole thing
Speaker 2: in German. I'm not gonna do any of it in German.
Speaker 2: He ended it with I repeat that I am the
Speaker 2: enemy of the order of today, and I repeat that
Speaker 2: with all my powers, as long as breath remains in me,
Speaker 2: I shall combat it. I declare again, frankly and openly,
Speaker 2: that I am in favor of using force. I have
Speaker 2: told Captain Shack, and I stand by it. If you
Speaker 2: cannonade us, we will dynamite you. You laugh, you think
Speaker 2: you'll throw no more bombs, But let me assure you
Speaker 2: that I die happy on the gallows. So confident am
Speaker 2: I in the hot that the hundreds and thousands to
Speaker 2: whom I've spoken will remember my words, and when you
Speaker 2: shall have hanged us, then mark my words, they will
Speaker 2: do the bomb throwing in this hope. I say to you,
Speaker 2: I despise you. I despise your order, your laws, your
Speaker 2: force propped authority. Hang me for it. He wasn't actually
Speaker 2: right about the everyone else doing the bomb throwing part
Speaker 2: is kind of for better or worse. I'm not actually
Speaker 2: sure one way or the other. But now we get
Speaker 2: George Engel, who I have a tattoo of on my arm.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna show you the tattoo even though no one
Speaker 2: else can see it.
Speaker 1: So you're saying you really really don't like this person.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is definitely my least favorite person, this stick
Speaker 2: figure drawn.
Speaker 3: On my arms, the tattoo I have of Roger Stone.
Speaker 3: Yeah no, yeah, exactly, Jesus, that's cute. Okay.
Speaker 2: So George Engel is the oldest of them all, much
Speaker 2: like Robert's Roger Stone, and he's about fifty years old,
Speaker 2: and he owns a toy shop with his wife, and
Speaker 2: he works for a deanarchist and he was He was
Speaker 2: born in Germany. You'd be shocked to know this. He
Speaker 2: was orphaned young, oh whoa, and he was taken in
Speaker 2: by a painter who apprenticed him. He came to the US.
Speaker 2: He found the US just as bad as Germany. He
Speaker 2: first joined the Socialists, but he grew disillusioned by all
Speaker 2: their politicking, the maneuvering, the opportunism, the rigged election, the
Speaker 2: compromise of principle. So he joined the anarchists. And he
Speaker 2: wasn't a speaker or a writer. He was just this
Speaker 2: guy who supported the movement with absolute sincerity. But he
Speaker 2: was also one of the most radical in his beliefs
Speaker 2: of the whole bunch. Like he'd probably the night before
Speaker 2: the Haymarket rally, he'd probably been meeting in a bar
Speaker 2: with some other of the more radical people like not
Speaker 2: parsons and spies and all those to figure out how
Speaker 2: with the like two thousand armed men they had that
Speaker 2: if they needed to, they could take the city, Like
Speaker 2: which places they would raid to get more guns and shit? Yeah,
Speaker 2: and which you know you've just watched everyone get shot
Speaker 2: in the middle of the big uprising. He also hated
Speaker 2: Schwaben Spis because they weren't radical enough, and he hadn't
Speaker 2: been on speaking terms with Spis. I just I kind
Speaker 2: of hate the idea that you have to like go
Speaker 2: face the death penalty with people you have like really
Speaker 2: serious scene drama with.
Speaker 3: I mean, I would hope he would be like at
Speaker 3: that point, like, well, Okay, maybe we had disagreements before,
Speaker 3: but clearly we're all committed to the same degree now
Speaker 3: that we're about to get executed, Like, I can't really
Speaker 3: hit them for not being committed enough as we're all
Speaker 3: about to die together, you would, right.
Speaker 2: I think I think so. I think he like didn't
Speaker 2: like he doesn't like super trust them, but he's like, yeah, okay, like.
Speaker 3: This is yeah, we're all about to die together, so yeah,
Speaker 3: probably shouldn't fetch too much.
Speaker 2: Yeah. When they arrested him, they just literally showed up
Speaker 2: at his house and disappeared him and his family didn't
Speaker 2: know what happened to him for days until his daughter
Speaker 2: went to the jail and then heard him like singing
Speaker 2: distantly down the cell block. And in his final address
Speaker 2: to court, he said, we see from the history of
Speaker 2: this country that the first colonists won their liberty only
Speaker 2: through force, that through forced slavery was abolished. And just
Speaker 2: as the man who agitated against slavery in this country
Speaker 2: had to ascend the gallows, so also must we he
Speaker 2: who speaks for the working men today must hang. And
Speaker 2: then Samuel Fielden, this is the guy who couldn't get
Speaker 2: a break, got shot in the knee, spoke last the rally.
Speaker 2: He wasn't German, which is a big break from everyone else.
Speaker 3: He was born a parent survived to see him hit
Speaker 3: the ripe old age of eleven.
Speaker 2: I think so, actually, yay. He's kind of the kind
Speaker 2: of comes out this whole thing the winner, as much
Speaker 2: as you can win this particular this is like a
Speaker 2: it's like a squid games thing, and he wins. He's
Speaker 2: born a poor weaver in England, like he starts working
Speaker 2: at the age of eight, so I feel like you
Speaker 2: can say you were born a weaver at that point.
Speaker 2: And he works into cotton mills that Karl Marx and
Speaker 2: George Engel based their whole analysis of how the how
Speaker 2: shitty the English working class have it like on the
Speaker 2: cotton mills in his town. And he cuts his political
Speaker 2: teeth in England, speaking on behalf of the Union in
Speaker 2: the States and against slavery. Then he moves to the
Speaker 2: US and he takes whatever work he can, and he's
Speaker 2: like a Methodist traveling preacher, and he travels the South
Speaker 2: and becomes dismayed by the conditions of black folks there.
Speaker 3: He's white.
Speaker 2: He settled in Chicago, and then he started working twelve
Speaker 2: to fourteen hour days as a stonecutter. And then he
Speaker 2: found himself as a speaker for the anarchists again, the
Speaker 2: kind of like the C List one. And he's the
Speaker 2: treasurer for the IWPA. And when he speaks in the
Speaker 2: courtroom apparently it actually he kind of pulls it off.
Speaker 3: It actually.
Speaker 2: A List speaker. Today it brings the entire courtroom to tears,
Speaker 2: and the prosecutor laughs and says, it's a good thing
Speaker 2: the jury hadn't been here to hear this speech before
Speaker 2: they made their verdict.
Speaker 3: Jesus, what a goblin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he really is. In his speech, Fielden says, we
Speaker 2: feel satisfied that we have not lived in this world
Speaker 2: for nothing, that we have done some good for our
Speaker 2: fellow man and done what we believe to be in
Speaker 2: the interest of humanity and for the furtherance of justice.
Speaker 2: If my life is to be taken for advocating the
Speaker 2: principles of socialism and anarchy, as I have understood them
Speaker 2: and honestly believe them in the interest of humanity. I
Speaker 2: say to you that I gladly give it up, and
Speaker 2: the price is very small for the result that is gained.
Speaker 2: I will now read the entire speech of Albert Parsons. No,
Speaker 2: I'm just kidding. Albert Parsons goes up. He's last. He
Speaker 2: speaks for eight hours over two days. Any kind Yeah,
Speaker 2: he kind of just loses his way and rambles a lot.
Speaker 3: Like vamping a bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I get the impression that this whole
Speaker 2: ordeal actually breaks him harder than it breaks the other folks,
Speaker 2: or he breaks in a different way maybe, And he
Speaker 2: has very few like Baller lines that are worth repeating.
Speaker 2: But near the end he said, I have nothing, not
Speaker 2: even now to regret. Well, speaking of regrets, here the
Speaker 2: ads that support this show. Okay, So the appeals go
Speaker 2: on for over a year. They reach all the way
Speaker 2: to the Supreme Court, who decides against the anarchists, and
Speaker 2: Lucy Parsons and a bunch of the other people from
Speaker 2: the IWPA spend the whole time traveling the country giving
Speaker 2: talks about the trial and the defendants, and this is
Speaker 2: happening in the middle of all this hysteria, right, Lucy's
Speaker 2: arrested like multiple times over the course of this, and
Speaker 2: her events are shut down everywhere she goes, but it's
Speaker 2: still largely successful. The moment of panic recedes, and then
Speaker 2: popular opinion starts to shift back towards the defendants, and
Speaker 2: the rest of the labor movement manages to find its
Speaker 2: spying again. At the beginning, the labor movement's like, whoa,
Speaker 2: we don't know these guys, even though they were all
Speaker 2: involved in all levels of the labor movement. And then
Speaker 2: eventually the labor movement's like, okay, okay, maybe we know
Speaker 2: these guys. And it led to this peak and people
Speaker 2: paying attention to what was going on, and people becoming anarchists.
Speaker 2: The Arbiter Zetongue. That newspaper goes from four thousand subscribers
Speaker 2: to ten thousand as more and more people see the
Speaker 2: hypocrisy of the government and adopt socialist and anarchist views,
Speaker 2: and there's rallies across the country, in the world, and
Speaker 2: then kind of again ironically or fittingly, some of the
Speaker 2: most ardent supporters at this time end up being people
Speaker 2: who hate their politics, but hate even more so to
Speaker 2: see the US legal system be like just made a
Speaker 2: mockery of by this trial. And now the prisoners are
Speaker 2: all celebrities. They're doomed celebrities. But I want to tell
Speaker 2: you about what August Spies gets up to while he's
Speaker 2: a celebrity, because he couldn't be fucked to get married before.
Speaker 2: But he finally marries once he's in jail. Y. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and he marries a woman he had never met who
Speaker 2: just started coming to the trial. Awesome, and she's an heiress,
Speaker 2: Nina van Zandt is an heiress to a fortune and
Speaker 2: is a member of high society. And it is like
Speaker 2: crazy scandalous through all the papers and apparently some of
Speaker 2: the other defendants are like, don't do this, this might
Speaker 2: affect the case or whatever, and he's like, no, I'm
Speaker 2: marrying this lady. But he wasn't allowed to attend his
Speaker 2: own wedding, so his brother, the one who got shot
Speaker 2: in the groin defending him, is a stand in as
Speaker 2: a proxy for the wedding, and they basically got married
Speaker 2: so that she could keep visiting him in jail and
Speaker 2: I actually think these were not conjugal visits. I think
Speaker 2: that they like never got to do more than like
Speaker 2: once kissed through the bars in a very dramatic and
Speaker 2: romantic way. Yeah, I knows. She's kind of interesting. She
Speaker 2: gives up like a four hundred thousand dollars inheritance, which
Speaker 2: because her her family's pissed off about this, which is
Speaker 2: twelve million dollars today Jesus.
Speaker 3: And she wow, So it's definitely not like poverty tourism.
Speaker 3: She actually like makes it, oh sacrifice.
Speaker 2: She moves to poverty that she's like, I like this town.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And she she keeps her name.
Speaker 3: Of the chicken the common People song.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, I love that song. It's a really good
Speaker 2: bitter song to listen to a song. Yea, so so
Speaker 2: cause Nina Speeds keep now. Now, Nina Speeds keeps her
Speaker 2: name even after her husband dies, and she even like
Speaker 2: gets remarried and then divorced and then goes back to
Speaker 2: the name Spies because she's now a committed I presume anarchist,
Speaker 2: and she lives in poverty. She ends up an old
Speaker 2: lady who collects stray cats and dogs, and she marches
Speaker 2: in labor demonstrations and she's still alive today. No, but
Speaker 2: that would rule, like.
Speaker 3: If you got to like that would be amazing.
Speaker 2: So the Supreme Court says, no, fuck these guys. So
Speaker 2: then they moved to a strategy of trying to get
Speaker 2: the governor to give them clemency and commute their sentences
Speaker 2: to life in prison. And they get thousands of letters
Speaker 2: from support from all walks of life, radicals and moderates,
Speaker 2: and there's still probably more Americans who hate them, but
Speaker 2: it's like, well, this is something that's totally unfamiliar to
Speaker 2: modern society. Society was very polarized by this, and a
Speaker 2: lot of the moderates instead to ended up taking radical
Speaker 2: positions on one side or another. The son of John
Speaker 2: Brown writes them a life and sends them a fruit basket,
Speaker 2: and he he says, basically, I support you, and my
Speaker 2: father would have supported you, and that had he had
Speaker 2: the chance, John Brown would have been a socialist too,
Speaker 2: since what he believed in was the quote community plan
Speaker 2: of cooperative industry. The fruit basket is a nice touch.
Speaker 3: The fruit basket is a nice touch. I hope that
Speaker 3: they were Like there's always that debate about like would
Speaker 3: John Brown have been like problematic today because he was
Speaker 3: you know, he was also a religious extremist. Yeah, totally,
Speaker 3: which is the thing that can go a couple of ways.
Speaker 3: But no, I think his kid's probably right. I think
Speaker 3: he I think being on the right side of slavery
Speaker 3: to that extent at that time means he probably would
Speaker 3: have been on the right side of a lot of things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know who would know better than the
Speaker 2: kid who's name John Brown Junior, you know, m h
Speaker 2: And in the end, only three of the But okay,
Speaker 2: so they do all of his work to get clemency,
Speaker 2: and only three of them end up actually writing the
Speaker 2: governor for clemency because there's a big problem to write
Speaker 2: the governor for clemency. Have to say you're sorry.
Speaker 3: Oh they are not sorry, so so Field and then
Speaker 3: Schwab are like, sure, whatever, we're sorry. Yeah, hey man,
Speaker 3: could you not kill us?
Speaker 2: And then Speez says I'm sorry too. But then Speez
Speaker 2: freaks out, has this moment of like everyone gets calls
Speaker 2: him a sellout, and he's like, no, no, I take
Speaker 2: it back, and he writes the governor's second letter. He's like, no,
Speaker 2: I'm just kidding. Not only am I not sorry, but
Speaker 2: you should kill only me and leave out, like leave
Speaker 2: everyone else.
Speaker 1: Go.
Speaker 3: Wow, that's a man who values values the clout.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, original clout chaser August Speed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's fun. Okay, and then I mean it's not fun.
Speaker 3: But honestly, anything you do in that situation is fine.
Speaker 3: I agree. I would never judge anybody for being like, well,
Speaker 3: I will say I'm sorry to not get murdered. Yeah. Fine.
Speaker 3: At the same time, I also respect heavily anyone who
Speaker 3: would be like, fuck that shit, I ain't sorry. Yeah,
Speaker 3: like you can hang my ass.
Speaker 2: Parsons ended up actually the most torn because he's the
Speaker 2: one who's like really like, you know, he's kind of
Speaker 2: broken at this point, but he's a true believer, right,
Speaker 2: and he's basically like asking all his friends for advice.
Speaker 2: He's like, what do I do? What do I do?
Speaker 2: And then one of his friends, this guy named dire Lum,
Speaker 2: is like, honey, Albert, what you should do is die.
Speaker 2: And Albert's like, oh, thank you. You're the only one
Speaker 2: willing to tell me that.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: That is so chances, I know. So he decides to die,
Speaker 2: and so he writes an open letter to the governor
Speaker 2: and his open letter says, look, if I'm innocent, let
Speaker 2: me go, and if I'm guilty, kill me. So the
Speaker 2: governor grants clemency at like the final hour to field
Speaker 2: in the Schwab and the five who refuse to say
Speaker 2: they're sorry where to die. And now I'm going to
Speaker 2: tell you who threw the fucking bomb?
Speaker 3: Eh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, good, okay, because the anonymous bomber comes back into
Speaker 2: play at this point, we don't know for sure, right,
Speaker 2: but historian Paul Average has done more work than anyone
Speaker 2: who I actually trust about this, And Albert Parsons was
Speaker 2: convinced a cop did it. It was like a Pinkerton did it.
Speaker 2: He's like, oh, it's a false.
Speaker 3: Flag attack, right, false flag attacked.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But basically, probably while all this is happening, the
Speaker 2: bomber was probably this guy named George Schwab who's completely
Speaker 2: unrelated to Michael Schwab, and he fucks off to New
Speaker 2: York after the bomb is thrown, and then when they're
Speaker 2: sentenced to die and everything, like the Supreme Court thing
Speaker 2: fails and all this shit, he's like, a, hey, should
Speaker 2: I come forward? Will that save these people's lives? If
Speaker 2: I say I'm the one who did it? Will they
Speaker 2: be let go? And they all kind of think about it.
Speaker 2: And when I say they all not everyone, like the
Speaker 2: defendants don't know this except the two autonomous ones who
Speaker 2: are more not actually lewis Ling, but the two autonomous
Speaker 2: ones who ran dare anarchist. They end up knowing about it.
Speaker 2: And they finally they sit down and they're like, no,
Speaker 2: if you come forward, you're just going to die too.
Speaker 2: It's just one more victim of capitalism if you come forward.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So the bomber is like, all right, and he does
Speaker 2: not come forward.
Speaker 3: That's a lot to live with. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then lewis Ling not only did he not write
Speaker 2: for clemency, he actually had his name taken off the
Speaker 2: Supreme Court case because he was he was, I'm done
Speaker 2: with capitalist justice. I have nothing to do with any
Speaker 2: of this.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: So a week before the execution, guards find bombs in
Speaker 2: his cell. He has four bombs, and I always thought
Speaker 2: that they were there to like affect a prison break,
Speaker 2: but apparently the fuses were like a set a second
Speaker 2: or two long, so they were almost certainly there so
Speaker 2: he could kill himself. But they find the bombs, so
Speaker 2: he doesn't get to kill himself in a nice clean,
Speaker 2: explodeing way. And instead, the day before the execution, lewis
Speaker 2: Ling has somehow got a hold of a blasting cap.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of different claims about how he got
Speaker 2: it there. He puts it in his mouth and he
Speaker 2: blows himself up, takes his own life. But because it's
Speaker 2: only a blasting cap, it takes six hours.
Speaker 3: For him to bleed to death.
Speaker 2: Oh Jesus, And since this is his exit from history,
Speaker 2: I'll say that a few days before he died, his
Speaker 2: mother and aunt had written him letters, and his mother wrote,
Speaker 2: I will be as proud of you after your death
Speaker 2: as I have been during your life, and his aunt wrote,
Speaker 2: whatever happens, even the worst, show no weakness before those wretches.
Speaker 3: So he had supportive family. That's good. The one person
Speaker 3: whose family wasn't dead.
Speaker 2: I know exactly. And then the night before the execution,
Speaker 2: all the condemned men they're sitting around, they're smoking cigars,
Speaker 2: and they're talking with jailers. Its apparently somehow very friendly.
Speaker 2: Parsons keeps like singing and reciting poetry every chance he gets.
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure Parsons has lost his mind, which I
Speaker 2: do not blame him at all. I'm cert sure entirely
Speaker 2: my mind in this in this environment.
Speaker 3: I've lost my mind on like five hour long flights before. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, George Engel my favorite. He talks with the priest
Speaker 2: who comes to offer him his last rites. And I'm
Speaker 2: going to say quote what he said to the priest
Speaker 2: in the shadow of the gallows. As I stand, I
Speaker 2: have done nothing wrong. I have not done everything right
Speaker 2: during my life, but I have endeavored to live so
Speaker 2: that I need not fear to die. Monopoly has crushed competition,
Speaker 2: and the poor man has no show. But the revolution
Speaker 2: will surely come and the working man will get his rights.
Speaker 2: Socialism and Christianity can walk hand in hand together as brothers,
Speaker 2: for both are laboring in the interests of the amelioration
Speaker 2: of mankind. I have no religion but to wrong no
Speaker 2: man and to do good to everybody. And I just
Speaker 2: it's a cool guy. Yeah, he's being nice to the
Speaker 2: priest that he didn't even call for He like, as
Speaker 2: the priest is leaving, he's like, look, hey, I know
Speaker 2: that was weird, but I didn't even call for you. Okay.
Speaker 2: The execution. On the morning of the execut there's three
Speaker 2: hundred cops and they're guarding the prison like it's a fortress,
Speaker 2: and there's once again gatling guns laying in wait, and
Speaker 2: for once, the media is right. The media is on
Speaker 2: about how an army of anarchists is going to descend
Speaker 2: on the place and free them all. But actually the
Speaker 2: anarchists had come up with a plan like that, and
Speaker 2: actually it was the condemned men who are like, guys,
Speaker 2: it's over, it's fine, let us just get this over with.
Speaker 2: And so that's why there's no massive last minute jail break.
Speaker 2: Lucy Parsons shows up to see her husband. She has
Speaker 2: her two kids in tow, and an officer tries to
Speaker 2: stop her. She says, you're gonna have to fucking kill me,
Speaker 2: and then she just like pushes her way through the
Speaker 2: police line. However, they then arrest her, strip her naked,
Speaker 2: leave her in a cell with her kids until after
Speaker 2: her her husband was hanged Jesus with a noose around
Speaker 2: their neck. Each man shouts their last words. Spies says,
Speaker 2: there will come a time when our silence will be
Speaker 2: more powerful than the voices you strangled.
Speaker 3: Today.
Speaker 2: Angle shouts in German uh Hoch, the anarchy or Hurrah
Speaker 2: for anarchy. Fisher shouts, also in German, hurrah for anarchy.
Speaker 2: This is the happiest day of my life. And then
Speaker 2: Parsons he says, I feel bad making fun of him
Speaker 2: right now, but I'm just gonna do it. I'll just
Speaker 2: quote him. We'll make fun of himself. I'm sorry, Parsons,
Speaker 2: you were a great guy. Parsons says, will I be
Speaker 2: allowed to speak? Oh, men of America, let me speak,
Speaker 2: Sheriff Mattson, Let the voice of the people be heard.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 2: And then the trap opens, and the hanging was done wrong,
Speaker 2: and they took long life. They took minutes to strangle.
Speaker 2: I think it took seven minutes for the last one
Speaker 2: to die.
Speaker 3: Sure that was an accident, Yeah, I'm.
Speaker 2: Sure, you know classic whoops. I've been doing this my
Speaker 2: whole life, and I just somehow slept up and didn't
Speaker 2: break their necks. Their funeral march had twenty thousand participants
Speaker 2: and two hundred thousand onlookers. And again, I actually should
Speaker 2: have looked up the population Chicago at the time, But
Speaker 2: two hundred and twenty thousand people in eighteen eighty seven.
Speaker 2: It's a lot of people, a lot. Yeah, it's the
Speaker 2: largest funeral that had ever been seen in Chicago. And basically,
Speaker 2: unions and radicals across the world commemorate their deaths and
Speaker 2: still do on May first, and which is the Worker's holiday,
Speaker 2: Like I said at the top, in every country of
Speaker 2: the world except the US, where they can't handle the
Speaker 2: radical stuff.
Speaker 3: Yep. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But to close out the rest of our characters, you
Speaker 2: want to know what happened to Captain Blackjack Bonfield, right,
Speaker 2: the cop who charged the crowd. Well, yes, he was
Speaker 2: caught taking bribes, and among the stolen goods he was
Speaker 2: storing was the personal effects of lewis Ling. Everyone had
Speaker 2: been like, hey, where's lewis Ling's stuff, and the cops like, oh,
Speaker 2: I don't know. And it's because this dude has stolen it.
Speaker 2: He gets fired, which is actually that might be a
Speaker 2: sign of the times having changed in a bad way.
Speaker 2: He actually gets fired for this.
Speaker 1: And.
Speaker 2: That's actually the impetus to get start getting the pardon
Speaker 2: pushed forward. Is they're like, look, the main guy for
Speaker 2: the prosecution was a piece of shit, corrupt cop, and
Speaker 2: they get pardoned. A progressive as elected governor of Illinois
Speaker 2: in eighteen ninety three, and he once again he tanks
Speaker 2: his entire career. It costs him the reelection, but he
Speaker 2: pardons the remaining He frees the remaining three who are
Speaker 2: still in prison, and he posthumously pardons the five who died.
Speaker 2: And he never managed to get back into office after
Speaker 2: doing that. But well, he actually cared about justice.
Speaker 3: Good for him. Yeah, another moderate who made a sacrifice. Yeah,
Speaker 3: for these people. That is nice to see a couple
Speaker 3: of times, in addition to all of the ones who
Speaker 3: stopped by and did nothing. But yeah, yeah, Okay.
Speaker 2: Then there's the fun of the cop statue. In eighteen
Speaker 2: eighty nine, the police put up a statue in Haymarket
Speaker 2: Square in honor of the fallen officer, the only one
Speaker 2: who had actually.
Speaker 3: They oh, the one who didn't get killed by other cops. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: For some reason, they didn't do one of all the
Speaker 2: people who had been murdered by officers. It wasn't a
Speaker 2: picture of dual wielding blackjack shooting down other cops.
Speaker 3: A monument to the cops killed by other cops.
Speaker 2: It's called critical support the monument. Yeah, all right, so
Speaker 2: the model for this cop, they don't use the actual
Speaker 2: dead cop as the model. They take a living cop
Speaker 2: a guy named Birmingham, and he's crooked as shit.
Speaker 3: Was the dead cop ugly? Were they just like that
Speaker 3: guy's not sexy enough for a statue.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I gotta assume. So they pick a crooked cop
Speaker 2: who then gets fired for fencing stolen goods.
Speaker 3: Incredible, Yeah, an amazing monument.
Speaker 2: And then in nineteen oh three someone steals the crest
Speaker 2: of the city off the statue. In nineteen twenty five,
Speaker 2: a street car driver, probably on purpose, jumps the track
Speaker 2: with the street car and plows down the statue. It
Speaker 2: gets moved to a place called Union Park. On May fourth,
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty eight, it was defaced with black paint. The
Speaker 2: next year, the Weathermen, who are the radical fact part
Speaker 2: of a radical faction of the anti war movement, they
Speaker 2: just fucking blow up the statue.
Speaker 3: Ah, nice to hear they got one of those bombs, right, Well,
Speaker 3: they get two of them, right because then yeah, they
Speaker 3: got a couple, right, Well, they get at least to them, right,
Speaker 3: because they rebuilt the statue.
Speaker 2: And then a year later the weathermen blow.
Speaker 3: It up again.
Speaker 2: Excellent, And then it was rebuilt once more, and now
Speaker 2: it's in the lobby of the Chicago Police headquarters. Where
Speaker 2: every day every cop can see a statue of a
Speaker 2: crooked cop. And this didn't win not the cop statue,
Speaker 2: but hey market, it didn't win them the work eight
Speaker 2: hour workday. But as far as I can tell, it
Speaker 2: didn't actually delay it as much as sometimes people say.
Speaker 2: The labor movement in the US and especially worldwide actually
Speaker 2: grew and eventually with this and basically, one by one,
Speaker 2: various trades and unions one better hours. By nineteen thirty seven,
Speaker 2: the Fair Labor Standards Act finally won it for more
Speaker 2: or less everyone nationwide.
Speaker 3: That's good.
Speaker 2: Anarchism in Chicago kind of faded after the trial, but
Speaker 2: anarchism worldwide grew, and basically everywhere you would go across
Speaker 2: the world, in any kind of labor hall, you would
Speaker 2: see the Haymarket martyrs, you see pictures of them. It
Speaker 2: leaves me with this like really complicated takeaway, right, because
Speaker 2: their rhetoric of violence is kind of what got them
Speaker 2: into this mess on some level.
Speaker 3: Yes, and certainly all of the dynamite had an impact
Speaker 3: on all of the dynamite.
Speaker 2: Right, But it's really hard to say whether the end
Speaker 2: result was positive or negative for the labor movement. For anarchism,
Speaker 2: for any of these things. It's like it's it's almost
Speaker 2: impossible to parse out. And then and one of the
Speaker 2: things that I'm left thinking about with this is that,
Speaker 2: like a lot of the stories of Haymarket that you'll
Speaker 2: read and in sort of more mainstream papers will be like, oh,
Speaker 2: there was this good protest movement and some anarchists came
Speaker 2: and fucked it all up by throwing a and that
Speaker 2: leaves out the fact that it was the anarchists who
Speaker 2: organized not the whole thing, but a huge chunk of
Speaker 2: it in the first place, and certainly the thing that
Speaker 2: got fucked up by someone throwing a bomb. And I
Speaker 2: feel like that happens a lot, is that people like
Speaker 2: radical people end up organizing this, and then that that
Speaker 2: work is forgotten about. And then my final note is
Speaker 2: that Lucy Parsons, who I opened the story up with,
Speaker 2: she stayed involved her entire life, and she ended up
Speaker 2: helping form the union the Industrial Workers of the World
Speaker 2: in nineteen oh five, who probably wanted to get their
Speaker 2: own episode, and she used the lessons of Haymarket to
Speaker 2: teach young radicals. In the nineteen twenties, the Chicago Police
Speaker 2: Department declared that she was quote more dangerous than a
Speaker 2: thousand rioters, and that feels like something to aspire to.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yep.
Speaker 2: So Robert, how are you feeling about Haymarket.
Speaker 3: I mean bad, it doesn't I mean on the whole
Speaker 3: bad time. I feel good that a lot of people
Speaker 3: came around to the fact that it was bullshit when
Speaker 3: in terms of talking about like the long term value
Speaker 3: of something like this, it's not bad that the kind
Speaker 3: of inherent contradictions and factileness of the system and how
Speaker 3: it exists primarily not to achieved justice but to do
Speaker 3: violence against people who threaten power like that, that's not bad. Like,
Speaker 3: it's useful that that was done. I don't know how
Speaker 3: much comfort that was for the families of the deceased,
Speaker 3: but it seems like it was some comfort for most
Speaker 3: of the deceased. And May Day is a good holiday.
Speaker 2: It is a good holiday.
Speaker 1: Dare I say cool people who did cool stuff?
Speaker 3: I hope. So, yeah, it's pretty pretty cool, you know.
Speaker 3: I went to my favorite May Day that I've been
Speaker 3: to was in Berlin. And in Berlin, one of the
Speaker 3: things they do on May Days is all of the
Speaker 3: bars kind of like move out into the streets, like
Speaker 3: they'll just set up like kiosks and stuff with their beer,
Speaker 3: and for one night it's allowed to just like throw
Speaker 3: your bottles everywhere. So there's just like snow drifts of
Speaker 3: shattered glass all over the streets and it's fine. Apparently
Speaker 3: this one night you can break glass all you want
Speaker 3: all over the damn place. And I had this very
Speaker 3: fun moment of just like shattering god knows how many
Speaker 3: Ibria bottles over the street. And then at one of
Speaker 3: the s Bahn stations, my friend like stopped to piss
Speaker 3: in like a corner, and will you get immediately ticketed
Speaker 3: by the jury place?
Speaker 2: That's just taking it too far.
Speaker 3: There's kids hucking bottles at the streets. Size yeah, just
Speaker 3: like all right, but this isn't okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have laws here, we have rules here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we have one less rule tonight, but we have
Speaker 3: rules here.
Speaker 1: Yea.
Speaker 3: Anyway, thank you, Margaret, this has been a hoot. Yeah,
Speaker 3: thanks for coming on. And dare I say a holler? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Oh that's too much.
Speaker 1: Do you have anything you want to plug? Robert Evans?
Speaker 2: Never never heard of you, Robert Evans.
Speaker 1: Do you have anything?
Speaker 3: I've certainly never heard of.
Speaker 1: Me, David, do you host any podcasts.
Speaker 3: I do the Dynamite Cast where we talk about the
Speaker 3: health benefits of a dynamite enriched diet, which are none.
Speaker 3: There are Well, actually, it would probably help with certain
Speaker 3: heart conditions, right, because nitroglycerin is literally used in one
Speaker 3: form as a heart medication. So I guess there are
Speaker 3: some ways that ingesting dynamite might potentially help you. But
Speaker 3: I doubt it would. I doubt it would work if
Speaker 3: you just were to take the form used as an
Speaker 3: explosive as.
Speaker 4: A heart medication. But I don't actually know you're using
Speaker 4: it wrong. I don't know, Like, Okay, have you ever
Speaker 4: had a headache? Okay, now if you don't want to
Speaker 4: have a headache, you could explode your entire body.
Speaker 3: Well, now that's you. See this is you're really getting
Speaker 3: onto the subject of my new self help book, The
Speaker 3: Explosion Driven Life.
Speaker 1: So so from what I got from what Robert just said,
Speaker 1: he was saying, listen to it could happen here. Uh
Speaker 1: And and buy his book After the Revolution.
Speaker 3: And check out my new book, The four Dynamite Workweek
Speaker 3: and The four Dynamite Body both go great together and
Speaker 3: will teach you how to change your life with just
Speaker 3: four sticks of dynamite amazing Margaret.
Speaker 1: Where can people follow you?
Speaker 2: People can follow me on the internet on Twitter at
Speaker 2: Magpie Killjoy and on Instagram at Margaret Kiljoy.
Speaker 3: Who what we do do Well?
Speaker 1: We'll be back next week on Monday with another allegedly
Speaker 1: with another cool person who may have done in fact
Speaker 1: something cool, right Margaret.
Speaker 2: With lots of caveats as always, Yep, Cool people Coming up?
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,
Speaker 1: visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com. Check us out on
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.