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Speaker 1: From Meat Eaters World News headquarters in Bozeman, Montana.

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Speaker 2: This is Col's Week in Review with Ryan col Klag.

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Speaker 1: Here's Cal. Hey, they're CALS Week in Review listeners. I

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Speaker 1: know I'm pounding you with the current legislative news, but

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Speaker 1: that's good. That's what you're tuning in for because you

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Speaker 1: know you are involved and interested in this conservation stuff.

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Speaker 1: You're active anglers and hunters and recreationists, and it's the

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Speaker 1: stuff that happens this time of year when snow's pounding

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Speaker 1: in Montana that's going to affect you during your hunting

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Speaker 1: and fishing seasons to come right now, just today in Montana,

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Speaker 1: on the docket SB two eighty three, HB three twenty eight,

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Speaker 1: HB three thirty, HB three fifty three, three fifty four,

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Speaker 1: fifty seven, ninety five, SB two thirty five, HB three,

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Speaker 1: seventy two, seventy one, one oh five, one O six,

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Speaker 1: and one O seven. And that's not even mentioning the

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Speaker 1: very much not good uh Anti easement bill that thankfully

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Speaker 1: got tabled yesterday. So suffice it to say, if this

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Speaker 1: is going on in Montana, my home state, it's going

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Speaker 1: on if your state's in session or even if your

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Speaker 1: fishing game committee are meeting this time of year. So

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Speaker 1: special guest today, Luke Worthington, Who is are you the chair?

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Speaker 2: Luke? I am the president of the Wyoming Houndsman Association.

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Speaker 1: President of the Wyoming Houndsman Association, which is a five

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Speaker 1: oh one C four in the State of Wyoming, and

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Speaker 1: Luke originally reached out to talk about a I shouldn't laugh,

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Speaker 1: but it is just one of those bills where you

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Speaker 1: read it and you're like, oh boy, if this is

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Speaker 1: where you're starting, I don't know if we'll ever be

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Speaker 1: able to come to the table. HB zero two eight

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Speaker 1: six State of Wyoming and Act relating to Game and

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Speaker 1: Fish Requiring an annual mountain lion hunting season, prohibiting hunt areas,

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Speaker 1: hunt area mortality limits, statewide mortality limits, bag limits, hours

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Speaker 1: for take hours for season, specifying that a mounta lion

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Speaker 1: may be taken during any hour of the day. Requiring

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Speaker 1: Game and Fish to establish possession tags for mountain lions

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Speaker 1: as specified, Authorizing mounta lions be trapped or snared, Authorizing

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Speaker 1: persons with other specified licenses to take mount lions, Repealing

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Speaker 1: mount lion pursuit seasons, providing definitions, making informing amendments, requiring

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Speaker 1: rule making, and providing for effective dates. Basically, it removes

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Speaker 1: any sort of regulation, any sort of structure to the

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Speaker 1: pursuit of a big game animal mountain lions in the

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Speaker 1: state of Wyoming. Is that a fair enough concise take Luke.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it is. You're exactly on point with that. It was.

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Speaker 2: Our personal opinion of this is that it's ballot box

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Speaker 2: biology and it is completely revoking all power, all management,

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Speaker 2: all science based wildlife management away from the game and fish.

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Speaker 2: And I believe this is an eradication bill. This is

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Speaker 2: also following in suit with what Utah did.

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Speaker 1: Meaning Utah's lion bill, I think past the last session

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Speaker 1: or the session before that basically makes a state wide regulation,

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Speaker 1: statewide season.

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Speaker 2: I believe, Yeah, you're correct, and it's a you know,

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Speaker 2: the thing about this is that you can it's unlimited.

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Speaker 2: You have to have an antelope, deer, or elk tag

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Speaker 2: no matter where you're hunting. It doesn't have these lions

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Speaker 2: don't have to be killed in that specific area. And

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Speaker 2: we charged forty two dollars for resident mountain lion license.

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Speaker 2: A non resident is three hundred and eighty dollars. Now

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Speaker 2: you can go buy a reduced price col elk tag

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Speaker 2: as a non residence like eighty something bucks. They're unlimited

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Speaker 2: this year, and that's that's something new. But you can

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Speaker 2: go buy these tags for eighty bucks. You repel the

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Speaker 2: lions fees. And this is defunding our game and fish

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Speaker 2: by hundreds of thousands of dollars. I think they were

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Speaker 2: making two hundred and two hundred plus thousand dollars off

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Speaker 2: line tags alone, and now they're getting defunded completely. And

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Speaker 2: then this bill keeps him as a game animal. So

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Speaker 2: now the game offici is defunded and they still have

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Speaker 2: to pay depredation on them out of pocket now with

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Speaker 2: no funding.

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Speaker 1: So I understand that, but which doesn't sound good face value.

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Speaker 1: But you, as a houndsman and lion hunter have got

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Speaker 1: to be in favor of chasing Katz year long, right you.

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Speaker 2: Would think so, but I know Aligns needed time to rest.

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Speaker 2: We start with the Wylman. Houndsman associated with association went

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Speaker 2: to legislation three years ago to get a pursuit season,

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Speaker 2: which a lot of people there's a lot for it,

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Speaker 2: a lot against it, but that gives us the ability

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Speaker 2: to pursue Mountalines after the quote immortalities have been reached.

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Speaker 2: And a lot of people are like, yeah, we're just

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Speaker 2: going out and harassed them outlines. Well that's not the truth.

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Speaker 2: You know. The real case behind it is is it

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Speaker 2: is us an opportunity to do some citizens biology. It's

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Speaker 2: you know, we can go out there after the killings

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Speaker 2: over your harvest limits have been reached. You're allowed to

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Speaker 2: buy a pursuit permit. We can go out there. And

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Speaker 2: what a lot of our heund guys are doing is

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Speaker 2: we're using that for a census report. You know, you

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Speaker 2: go in there and hammer a lion area and then

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Speaker 2: you can go and pursue them after the season mortality

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Speaker 2: limits have been reached. You can go in there and

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Speaker 2: see what's left, you know, see if we have some females, kittens, toms,

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Speaker 2: you know, and it kind of gives it gives a

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Speaker 2: helld guy a pure direction on where to go with

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Speaker 2: harvest limits and how we're going to bring it to

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Speaker 2: public comment when Game of Fish goes around to do

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Speaker 2: their regional meetings. I think it was beneficial for everybody.

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Speaker 2: You know that that's a neat little tool that we

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Speaker 2: brought in that it's pretty much doing a census report

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Speaker 2: on that pursuit season. So we got that. I don't

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Speaker 2: think we need to be hunting them all the time,

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Speaker 2: especially in the dark, especially with no management whatsoever. No,

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Speaker 2: there's pretty much no regulations on these lions with this bill,

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Speaker 2: this bill HB two eighty six. You know, it's just

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Speaker 2: kind of a free for all. We saw it as

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Speaker 2: an eradication bill.

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Speaker 1: And no no lions means no lion hunting.

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Speaker 2: That's right. When you when it's a free for all,

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Speaker 2: you know it's it's going to hurt us. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm sure there's people out there that are going to

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Speaker 2: take advantage of it. But uh, you know, according to

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Speaker 2: the North American model of wildlife conservation, you do not

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Speaker 2: eradicate a species to benefit another. And that's how this

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Speaker 2: bill was pushed as a meal deer bill, and we

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Speaker 2: had a lot of Yesterday it actually went to committee

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Speaker 2: and we had the Mealy Fanatics, probably the biggest meal

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Speaker 2: deer conservation organization in the state of Wyoming. They opposed

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Speaker 2: this bill. They're like, this is not a meal deer theme.

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Speaker 2: This is completely against science based wildlife management. This is

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Speaker 2: not the way to do it. Game and fish has

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Speaker 2: has a plan established that has been working for years

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Speaker 2: since nineteen seventy four. And you know all the sportsmen

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Speaker 2: in Wyoming, all the associations of TRCP, Wyoming Wildlife Federation.

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Speaker 2: You know Jess Johnson, she is a hard working gal

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Speaker 2: down there making sure bad legislation like this does not

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Speaker 2: go through. And we got the support TRCP merely fanatics,

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Speaker 2: the Wyoming outfitters and guides Wyoga. They came and testified

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Speaker 2: against this bill because it is so bad in per

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Speaker 2: se of taking wildlife management out of the hands of

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Speaker 2: the professionals.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, and that's where two eighty six lies right now,

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Speaker 1: right it's it's uh was it did it even make

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Speaker 1: it to a vote?

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Speaker 2: It did not. It was it died with because of

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Speaker 2: no motion. They didn't even want to talk about it.

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Speaker 2: We had forty five people in that waiting to comment

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Speaker 2: and they gave us sixty seconds. And it was. It

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Speaker 2: was a pretty awesome scene for bad wildlife bills. We

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Speaker 2: slaughtered them. And it was because of a growed group

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Speaker 2: effort within all these associations and sportsmen across the state.

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Speaker 2: It was. It was great to see. I hope we

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Speaker 2: see that every time we get bad legislation. They didn't

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Speaker 2: even want to talk about it. It died because nobody

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Speaker 2: motioned the bill.

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Speaker 1: That's right, broad and diverse coalition makes makes lawmakers think, well,

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Speaker 1: who the heck is for this?

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Speaker 2: You know? And this was the first time cal that

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Speaker 2: I've ever seen anti hunters and hunters on the exact

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Speaker 2: same page, you know. And and that's good. You know,

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Speaker 2: it was a It was a good day for wildlife.

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Speaker 2: I can tell you that much. Because when you shake

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Speaker 2: the hand of an anti hunter and you both have

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Speaker 2: the same mindset on science based wildlife management, you know,

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Speaker 2: legislation had to look at that and be like, wow,

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Speaker 2: this is bad because very often that very seldom does

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Speaker 2: that ever happen.

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Speaker 1: Oh sure, And you know, for the folks that are

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Speaker 1: are reasonable humans, when you point out the fact that well, look,

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Speaker 1: the hunting groups are not pro eradication, Like nobody on

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Speaker 1: the hunting side of things is saying kill them all,

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Speaker 1: that that does go a long way with future work.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: What else is going on in the state of Wyoming

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Speaker 1: under I understand there are several bills that you'd kind

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Speaker 1: of lump in on the predator side of things. What

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Speaker 1: else is on the table?

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Speaker 2: Right now, Luke, we had HB zero one eighty six.

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Speaker 2: It was a bear cupon bill that was going to

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Speaker 2: allow everybody carrying an ELK license to kill a black

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Speaker 2: bear or a grizzly bear. You get one cupon per

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Speaker 2: ELK license. Yeah, I said, grizzly pear. They were going

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Speaker 2: legislation was gonna make try to make it a law

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Speaker 2: where in its resident only, where resident can kill a

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Speaker 2: grizzly bear. They are They pretty much told us it's

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Speaker 2: okay to commit a felony, a federal crime, it's okay

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Speaker 2: in our state, go ahead and kill a grizzly bear.

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Speaker 2: And black bears were on that too. So if you

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Speaker 2: carried an ELK license, I'll go through this real quick.

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Speaker 2: Here it was. It was called House Bill one eighty

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Speaker 2: six Bear coupons, So every ELK license came with a

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Speaker 2: bear coupon where it was one bear per ELK license.

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Speaker 2: Like I mentioned before, state of Wyoming has many areas

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Speaker 2: in the state right now where we're we're overpopulated with

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Speaker 2: ELK Mulder numbers are in the dumps. So they decided

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Speaker 2: for every ELK license, you get this bear coupon, which

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Speaker 2: is good for one black bear or grizzly bear per unit.

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Speaker 2: The tag was issued. So some of these places have

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Speaker 2: unlimited l tags for kew elk, you can go buy

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Speaker 2: a cow out tag, you can kill five or six bears.

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Speaker 2: So that was pretty that was pretty wild. That actually

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Speaker 2: made it through committee with an amendment to take the

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Speaker 2: black bears off the coupon, so now it was left

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Speaker 2: to just grizzly bear coupons. So every alk license a

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Speaker 2: resident could kill one grizzly bear, which is as we know,

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Speaker 2: they're still listed as a protected a federally protected species,

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Speaker 2: and if you were to do that, that is a felony.

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Speaker 2: You're looking at ten thousand dollars in fine in jail time.

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Speaker 2: And our state legislature legislators, we're okay with that. And

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Speaker 2: it actually went to the house floor yesterday and it

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Speaker 2: died on the floor with a on a boat. So

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Speaker 2: that bill is dead too.

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Speaker 1: That's amazing. What what else is happening in Wyoming?

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Speaker 2: Okay? Okay? We had Senate file zero one seventy it's

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Speaker 2: prohibition on management our legislation. Our legislators decided that it

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Speaker 2: was going to be a is it going to be

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Speaker 2: a we'll show you bill to the FEDS, so they

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Speaker 2: pulled This bill was based on pulling all management of

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Speaker 2: grizzly bears away from the Wyoming Game and Fish Department.

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Speaker 2: This was if you had depredation grizzly bears walking through

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Speaker 2: town unless it met with human safety, but define human safety.

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Speaker 2: But Game and Fish had to stop their collaring process

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Speaker 2: or population data, all their studies because our state legislation

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Speaker 2: wanted to, you know, make a statement to the Feds.

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Speaker 2: And of course I went in We went in there,

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Speaker 2: all of us again, went in there and testified on

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Speaker 2: that and be like, hey, you know, the only reason

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Speaker 2: why our game and fish has a number is because

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Speaker 2: of data, because of these studies. And now you're pulling

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Speaker 2: all this away. We'll never get them delisted from the

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Speaker 2: from the United States Fish and Wildlife Service because we

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Speaker 2: don't know what's there anymore. You know, we need that data,

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Speaker 2: We need that scientific We need the boots on the

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Speaker 2: ground to show a number to prove we can get

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Speaker 2: them delisted and we can manage them. With pulling management

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Speaker 2: away from the game of fish. You just showed the

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Speaker 2: United States Fish and Wildlife Service that our Game and

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Speaker 2: Fish Department is incompetent on managing grizzly bears. So this

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Speaker 2: was a this was a really bad bill. It actually

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Speaker 2: was tabled yesterday no vote. The sponsor was sitting on

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Speaker 2: the committee and this was in the TRW Committee in

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Speaker 2: the Senate, and before public comment, he asked if we

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Speaker 2: could this bill could be tabled. Oh, that's bill is

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Speaker 2: too you know, I I don't know if our legislation

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Speaker 2: is just trying to show something to the federal government

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Speaker 2: thinking it's going to help, but taking all your power

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Speaker 2: away from game of fish shows them as incompetent. Is

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Speaker 2: how the sportsmen in Wyoming have seen it. You have

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Speaker 2: to trust the science, you have to trust the data.

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Speaker 2: They're the ones doing the work. They are going to

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Speaker 2: be the reason like we do get grizzy bears delisted

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Speaker 2: hopefully with the new president and administration in the in

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Speaker 2: the capitol there in Washington, d C.

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Speaker 1: For the the Wyoming houndsman, are you as hanging it

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Speaker 1: up for the rest of the session. What else is

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Speaker 1: out there?

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Speaker 2: You know? These were the three big large carnivore bills.

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Speaker 2: I believe as we're just not houndsman, we're sportsmen, so

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Speaker 2: we really look out for our Game of Fish department.

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Speaker 2: We do have, I believe, probably the best carnivor department

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Speaker 2: in the United States. We got Dan Thompson, which is

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Speaker 2: our the supervisor, uh, doctor Dan Thompson. He's he's an

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Speaker 2: amazing carnivor biologist. And if there's any other bills out

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Speaker 2: there that are against science based wildlife management, we'll fight them

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Speaker 2: on the wildlife side. There's some land stuff and and

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Speaker 2: you know, I've been so busy see on these bills.

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Speaker 2: Cal I work a full time job. This is a

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Speaker 2: all volunteer association, and I leave that up to Jess

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Speaker 2: Johnson with Wyomy Wildlife Federation. She will let me know

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Speaker 2: if there's a bad bill, and she's like, you should

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Speaker 2: probably testify on this. You know, heads up, we got

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Speaker 2: this coming in. How do you feel about it? Testify

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Speaker 2: if you'd like. And you know, that's that's where all

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Speaker 2: these associations and organizations get together and you build a

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Speaker 2: sportsman group to handle bills like this. And that's what

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Speaker 2: Wyoming proved this legislation session is if we all get together,

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Speaker 2: you can stop bad legislation in its tracks fast.

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Speaker 1: Heck, yeah, that's awesome. Have you been out running any

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Speaker 1: cats with the snowy weather?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I am a guide. I guide for a O'Brien

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Speaker 2: O'Brien Creek Outfitters here in Wyoming, and and I did

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Speaker 2: my little guide session, went and did fun hunting, and

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Speaker 2: then I got hammered with bills. And you know, I've

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Speaker 2: done a little bit of hunting here and there, but

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Speaker 2: my hunting season came to a halt because we need

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Speaker 2: to fight to keep it. And that's that was my

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Speaker 2: obligation with the being the association's president. Is sometimes you

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Speaker 2: got to hang stuff up and you know, and fight

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Speaker 2: the bigger the bigger picture, and you know, that was

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Speaker 2: my obligation. So that's what I did. I'm hoping to

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Speaker 2: get out this weekend. I'm feeling a lot lighter, you know,

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Speaker 2: without all this pressure on my shoulders, and I finally

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Speaker 2: get to hang up my phone for a little bit

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Speaker 2: and not have to be on it for one hundred

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Speaker 2: hours a week trying to get people on board. But

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Speaker 2: I'm going to hit it hard this weekend and hopefully

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Speaker 2: this stuff's kind of over. You know, if our bills

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Speaker 2: aren't in by Friday, if they don't see a committee

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Speaker 2: by friday, they are dead. So it's a lot of

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Speaker 2: weight off our shoulders. Hopefully I can get back out

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Speaker 2: there and get rolling.

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Speaker 1: Heck, yeah, man, well you're you're setting a good example.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes you gotta sacrifice this hunting season for future seasons

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Speaker 1: to come. And like we always say here on Cal's

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Speaker 1: wee can review. If you're not in there, somebody else

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Speaker 1: will be on your behalf and you may not like

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Speaker 1: what they have to say.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly right. It's it can be really scary and

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Speaker 2: a lot of people are scared of this stuff. You know,

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Speaker 2: I'm not I'm not a highly educated person. I'm just

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Speaker 2: a hound guy. I work on a ranch. You know,

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Speaker 2: you can write an email, especially to the committees. If

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Speaker 2: it makes committee, send an email. It takes five minutes.

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Speaker 2: You don't need talking points, read the bill and tell

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Speaker 2: them what you think. They do listen and they do respond.

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Speaker 2: So that's a Anybody can do this stuff. It's super simple.

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Speaker 2: And you know that, Kel, you've been in it a

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Speaker 2: long time with this legislation, and it's very simple to

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Speaker 2: get the word out. But it also takes a team

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Speaker 2: to get people involved. And you know, when Colorado did this,

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Speaker 2: it opened everybody's eyes up. You know, they're like, wow,

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Speaker 2: we need to do something. You know, when they stormed

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Speaker 2: the Capitol down there in Denver. It was a big

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Speaker 2: It was a big showing from the hound guys and

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Speaker 2: sportsmen alike. And it's very easy to do. It just

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Speaker 2: takes a little bit of your time. And if this

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Speaker 2: stuff is important to you, you have to see it

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Speaker 2: out to preserve it for the future.

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Speaker 1: Well said, Well said, Well, how do folks get a

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Speaker 1: hold of the Wyoming Houndsman it is.

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Speaker 2: We have a Facebook page called the Wyoming Houndsman Association.

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Speaker 2: You can look us up on there. We also have

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Speaker 2: a website, the Wyominghoundsminassociation dot org. You can get on

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Speaker 2: there membership, sponsorships, seeing what we're doing, meet the board,

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Speaker 2: meet the team. I went to the American Bear Foundation

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Speaker 2: banquet this year as kind of an affiliation, you know,

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Speaker 2: did some rafflin, did some live auction stuff. Had a

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Speaker 2: great time with those guys. Joe Condelius down there at

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Speaker 2: the American Bear Foundation puts on an amazing banquet usually

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Speaker 2: else out every year. And that's that's about how you

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Speaker 2: can get ahold of us. Just watch us on that

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Speaker 2: Facebook page. Email us email is Wyoming Hounceman Association at

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Speaker 2: gmail dot com. So you have any questions about what

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Speaker 2: we do, how we can help your state. If you

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Speaker 2: guys are fighting something like this, some some tips or

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Speaker 2: tricks or how to get people unified. You know, we're

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Speaker 2: pretty young association. We don't we don't know that much,

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Speaker 2: but we try very hard and I think we're leading

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Speaker 2: by example.

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Speaker 1: Heck yeah, I'm gaining gaining that experience. And like like

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Speaker 1: you said earlier, if you are intimidated to call in

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Speaker 1: or write in, be it your first time or your

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Speaker 1: second time or whatever, even go in and testify. Many

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Speaker 1: times you're going to be shocked if you walk in

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Speaker 1: that room at how few people are there. And it

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Speaker 1: makes a big difference. Even if you're not the most

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Speaker 1: well spoken person out there, that committee or commission is

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Speaker 1: going to be like, oh boy, people are paying attention

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Speaker 1: and they care. That's because you showed up. So that

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Speaker 1: makes an impact.

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Speaker 2: It really does. That testifying it can be nerve racking,

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Speaker 2: but you got to realize they're just people. You voted

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Speaker 2: for these people to be in there to work for you.

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Speaker 2: It's your obligation also to show up and voice your opinion.

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Speaker 2: Send them emails. You know you voted for them. They're

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Speaker 2: supposed to be representing you, so make sure they.

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Speaker 1: Know that, Hey, excellent, Well thanks a bunch, Luke. I

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Speaker 1: appreciate you yet writing in and taking the time to

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Speaker 1: run us through some good wins. We like hearing that

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Speaker 1: because sometimes we can get bogged down and how much

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Speaker 1: other stuff might be going the wrong direction. So I

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Speaker 1: really appreciate it and hope you get out this weekend

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Speaker 1: and find that big Tom.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, Thank you kel for having me on,

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Speaker 2: and thanks for everything meat Eater does too out there.

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Speaker 2: You guys spread the word and it's important to all

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Speaker 2: of us. All of us need to stay on top

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Speaker 2: of this stuff, especially especially legislationly wise. I really appreciate

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Speaker 2: you guys. Thank you, thank you,