Speaker 1: No, no, come home, Come home.
Speaker 2: On this episode of the Heat Check, we have a
Speaker 2: very special guest, my guy, Jake Fisher.
Speaker 3: He's an author. Folks don't know he's written books.
Speaker 2: Uh. He's the author of Bill to Lose. How the
Speaker 2: NBA's tanking era changed the league forever.
Speaker 3: I think that tanking. We'll talk about this another time.
Speaker 3: But like owners that just try to lose, I just
Speaker 3: can't stand it. I really can't.
Speaker 2: Uh. He also is a newsbreaker newsmaker works for currently
Speaker 2: works for Bleacher Report, has worked for SI, has worked
Speaker 2: for SB Nation. Actually got his start at the Boston Globe,
Speaker 2: which I did not know until today.
Speaker 3: Very very big ja, you know, very big jay.
Speaker 2: Journalist Jake Fisher making some moves, making some moves, bust
Speaker 2: out on the scene, Jake Fisher out of fucking nowhere
Speaker 2: to just.
Speaker 3: All of a sudden, breaking huge news. Welcome to the show,
Speaker 3: Jake Fisher.
Speaker 1: That is a very kind intro. You know, I'd like
Speaker 1: to think I was like around for a long time.
Speaker 1: You know, I was. I was picking away with my
Speaker 1: axe at Slam and the SI. But then, you know,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, we got thrust into this transaction world.
Speaker 1: So we're trying to make it work.
Speaker 3: You know, how did you get into it?
Speaker 2: Because I feel like you don't just bring I mean,
Speaker 2: it's not easy to just all of a sudden be
Speaker 2: developing the relationships where you break news? Did that come from?
Speaker 2: So this built to lose? How the NBA's tanking era
Speaker 2: changed the league forever? Did the relationships through that sourcing
Speaker 2: of that book end up lead you on this path?
Speaker 3: Was it like break down? How you got here as
Speaker 3: like cogently as.
Speaker 1: Pop Well, First of all, thank you for the very
Speaker 1: seamless and organic plugs of the book title. Multiple times
Speaker 1: my publish really regard for that. But to answer your question,
Speaker 1: and it's funny, it's honestly the question I typically get
Speaker 1: the most when I when I did talk on so
Speaker 1: such as these, but I mean at SI for years,
Speaker 1: I was writing all these dumb, silly features that people
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about. Like I got coffee with Mike
Speaker 1: D'Antoni one day at like seven am downtown in five
Speaker 1: I had the Starbucks because apparently he is addicted to
Speaker 1: Starbucks cappuccinos. It's the only thing that is like close
Speaker 1: to resembling his time in Milan or all over Italy.
Speaker 1: When he was playing and coaching the professionally and like
Speaker 1: stuff like I mean, there's a lot down the list
Speaker 1: of those types of like personality type stories, and I
Speaker 1: got to know people in the league by being someone
Speaker 1: who wasn't trying to call them about very pressing details
Speaker 1: such as the ones I'm doing now but flash forward.
Speaker 1: I got laid off by Sports Illustrated in October twenty
Speaker 1: nineteen when the company got taken over by new management,
Speaker 1: leadership whatever. Unfortunately, my editor at Bleach Report, Chris Trenchard,
Speaker 1: I had a relationship with him just being in the
Speaker 1: industry for a couple of years, and he was letting
Speaker 1: me freelance there. I did some stuff like I remember
Speaker 1: I did a story about Trey Young before his All
Speaker 1: Star Game, how he was like hanging out with Chris
Speaker 1: paul as like a high school kid and going to
Speaker 1: Kevin Durant's apartment to watch T and T Thursday night
Speaker 1: games when he was sixteen seventeen years old. I did
Speaker 1: some feature after the pandemic began about how the teams
Speaker 1: gearing up to go to the bubble were in seat
Speaker 1: set of high five and they were like tapping each
Speaker 1: other with his feet and sneakers to try to like
Speaker 1: avoid the germi vacation of you know, COVID and everything.
Speaker 1: And then twenty twenty one, beginning of that year, my
Speaker 1: editor Chris said, you know, we kind of need the
Speaker 1: away from the freelance stuff and the future writing that
Speaker 1: you prefer to do. We want to go and do
Speaker 1: this more transactional game. So to bring a long ramble
Speaker 1: to a close, I wanted to do it in a
Speaker 1: way that was storytelling though, so I do try to
Speaker 1: write a story every week and something that I feel
Speaker 1: like we go back and forth a lot on the
Speaker 1: edits about trying to what's relevant, like what's going to
Speaker 1: be aggregated, and like I am trying to interweave those
Speaker 1: juicy tidbits within ultimately context, and the context just becomes
Speaker 1: what I think is more of a narrative in the
Speaker 1: day to day game of this transaction beast.
Speaker 3: So, how do you get to the point where people
Speaker 3: are all wanting to answer your calls.
Speaker 2: Like as a new kid on the block, because I
Speaker 2: feel like all the things that you were doing in
Speaker 2: the relationships that you built from feature writing, now it's.
Speaker 3: Like, hey, by the way, like I'm I'm just another
Speaker 3: one of those those news news leeches. I need info,
Speaker 3: and I think now.
Speaker 1: I mean the leech thing is funny, like I do
Speaker 1: address the elephant of the room and kind of make
Speaker 1: fun of it myself when I'm hanging out with people,
Speaker 1: you know off the record. I mean a lot of
Speaker 1: people do. Still. I got was at dinner with a
Speaker 1: bunch of people a week and a half ago, two
Speaker 1: weeks ago wherever the dates were dan in New Orleans,
Speaker 1: and some guy kept kind of saying, like, you know,
Speaker 1: with Jake's here, Like, am I going to be some
Speaker 1: unnamed source. I think you kind of have to steer
Speaker 1: into that and like recognize the elephant in the room.
Speaker 1: But also, I mean I've known a lot of his
Speaker 1: people now for over almost a deck guy. I kind
Speaker 1: of really started covering the league at the twenty thirteen draft,
Speaker 1: so it's been it's been a long time for a
Speaker 1: lot of these guys. People of late, like whenever I
Speaker 1: meet someone new, Fortunately, I've found the last six to
Speaker 1: eight nine months or so, people kind of know me
Speaker 1: more so when it's a when it's an introduction, they're like, oh, yeah, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know what you do, and that that obviously is
Speaker 1: a pretty nice lubricant to create a dialogue and a communication,
Speaker 1: but to get people to give me the info as
Speaker 1: to answer your question, Like what I do is just
Speaker 1: like when I got the kind of quote unquote offer
Speaker 1: or the positional shift push from my editor, I called
Speaker 1: like ten to fifteen guys in the league that I
Speaker 1: knew had access to info that I had been talking
Speaker 1: with for years, and said, Hey, would you mind if
Speaker 1: I just did this once a week and started badgering you, Like,
Speaker 1: I know it's going to be annoying, but I promise
Speaker 1: it'll be like we'll have a good time with it,
Speaker 1: you know, like we're friends, or at least we've had
Speaker 1: we have some type of relationship, and that's kind of
Speaker 1: where it got started. And every week I make those
Speaker 1: calls or you know, and that that list has grown
Speaker 1: and shrunk, and some people fall in and out because
Speaker 1: of what you write or because of what their boss
Speaker 1: now doesn't want them to be saying to you. But
Speaker 1: I think, you know, with like the TIBs story this week,
Speaker 1: I just had heard that very loosely and then very
Speaker 1: more strongly, and then like I finally gathered all my
Speaker 1: intel and brought it to the highest ranking people that
Speaker 1: I could that would truly know, and they kind of
Speaker 1: confirmed and deny the little details, and then we write
Speaker 1: something up and move on to the next the next week.
Speaker 3: Awesome. That's that's really interesting.
Speaker 2: I guess if you're bringing it out into the forefront
Speaker 2: and saying like, hey, I'm going to be scheduling out
Speaker 2: my times to pester you and to badger you, that's
Speaker 2: and then they agree they kind of know what they're
Speaker 2: signing up for. Especially since you're you've got a pre
Speaker 2: existing relationship.
Speaker 3: What are the dues and don'ts of news breaking, Like
Speaker 3: what are things that.
Speaker 2: Get you cut off from this business? And what are
Speaker 2: ways that you think like help you be successful.
Speaker 1: That's a great question, you know, And I will say
Speaker 1: also to kind of bridge us to the last question too. Now,
Speaker 1: also like people know that I and and for and
Speaker 1: not trust me. Obviously I think everything I think I'm
Speaker 1: talking in terms of my approach, I can't speak to that.
Speaker 1: That's what everyone else is a pro that's I sort
Speaker 1: of implied for sure, But in terms of like the
Speaker 1: role that I can play in terms of like not
Speaker 1: the article, but the actual conversations, like there are many
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people in the media side of things.
Speaker 1: But when you have access to information that is considered
Speaker 1: a proprietary in terms of the NBA world, you know,
Speaker 1: teams do want to know what I know. Like, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of people who like I can help connect
Speaker 1: the dot to create you know, I'm not saying like
Speaker 1: I'm taking credit for a transaction happening, but that's I mean,
Speaker 1: it's not just me again, this is what the role
Speaker 1: that we can provide as a collective of you know,
Speaker 1: the reporter in the NBA ecosystem. Like that's why at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, people have a general incentive
Speaker 1: to talk. And I think recognizing that is the biggest
Speaker 1: to bring this to your second question, I think that's
Speaker 1: the biggest thing to have in your in your quiver
Speaker 1: when you're going into these conversations, Like if you if
Speaker 1: you go into it as oh, yeah, I am just
Speaker 1: a pest and I'm just coming to be annoying to you,
Speaker 1: like that works, I think to show a humility and
Speaker 1: and and the human aspect of the conversation you're having.
Speaker 1: But if I call someone who like an agent of
Speaker 1: a player who is requesting a trader or a general manager,
Speaker 1: I'm talking about that team's trade conversations like you need
Speaker 1: to I think also kind of hold yourself with an
Speaker 1: authority and that like you have a purpose for that call,
Speaker 1: because people will try to bully you and walk over
Speaker 1: you and lie to you and try to not help you.
Speaker 1: But if you if you present things I think in
Speaker 1: a respectful way, in a professional way, in a way
Speaker 1: that did not sound too corny like means business, I
Speaker 1: think people will respect that ultimately, and they'll they'll recognize
Speaker 1: them understanding for story coming out. You know their perspective
Speaker 1: and what they can help to try to shift it
Speaker 1: in a way that might even benefit them. It's also
Speaker 1: your job to be thinking all the time what these
Speaker 1: people's motivations are and where they're hoping to get the
Speaker 1: story to be, and why they might be saying that
Speaker 1: or where they might know that information from. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of like second guessing I think you have to
Speaker 1: do in your head all the time to try to
Speaker 1: separate the fact from the fiction. Because the NBA is
Speaker 1: I'm sure the NFL and baseball are very similar, but
Speaker 1: the NBA ecosystem is very much rooted in rumor and
Speaker 1: a lot of it isn't true. But a lot of
Speaker 1: it is coming from something that is true. So if
Speaker 1: you can peel back through all the bullshit and figure
Speaker 1: out the truth, you can kind of write something and
Speaker 1: write some tea leaves to things that are going to
Speaker 1: happen when you know then ultimately they do get reported someday.
Speaker 3: Are there things you should not do, like, say you're
Speaker 3: at that dinner, Like, do those.
Speaker 2: People do become unknown named sources if they're sort of
Speaker 2: casually mentioning or is that the first breadcrumb.
Speaker 3: That you end up using to then go in a
Speaker 3: more formal basis to say, okay, like I can go
Speaker 3: and call up a contact and confirm the case.
Speaker 1: Well, the general don't do is I mean, like if
Speaker 1: you are going to be a narc, like if everything
Speaker 1: people say to you is going to be written publicly,
Speaker 1: or you're going to be then spewing it and telling
Speaker 1: everyone that you talk to like no one's gonna want
Speaker 1: to talk to anymore. I mean there's a fine line between, Like, obviously,
Speaker 1: when I'm talking to people, like everything I'm hearing is
Speaker 1: ultimately coloring my overall understanding to make my stories more
Speaker 1: accurate and more authentic and more knowledgeable. But at the
Speaker 1: same time, like you can write something that's very honestly
Speaker 1: damning about someone or a team, but also kind of
Speaker 1: leaving out a lot of details that might not necessarily
Speaker 1: be necessary or might not be confirmed, but you can
Speaker 1: kind of characterize them in ways that also can help
Speaker 1: a relationship continue, but also are still being fair and
Speaker 1: critical at the same time. I think there is a
Speaker 1: balance in that, And I think to your second part
Speaker 1: of that question, like how do you switch? Make that
Speaker 1: switch flip? See someone you can call? I mean to me,
Speaker 1: like anybody is someone I can call. Like, especially coming
Speaker 1: from the perspective of to do my job as well
Speaker 1: as I can. I'm trying to get as much of
Speaker 1: the truth as I can, and the best way to
Speaker 1: do that is to talk to literally everybody. So if
Speaker 1: that's the case, then I can call everybody in terms
Speaker 1: of someone who I know wants to talk and whisper
Speaker 1: and everyone wants to talk about other people, right those
Speaker 1: people that I can have those palows with on a
Speaker 1: semi weekly basis, you can tell pretty quickly right away.
Speaker 1: Sometimes people are very straight up about it, kind of
Speaker 1: like out of a TV show, And you know I
Speaker 1: can help you, you can help me, Like here's my card.
Speaker 1: Let's stay in touch. Like sometimes that is very It
Speaker 1: is very like there's a it's kind of like an
Speaker 1: on the date where you're having a good conversation all
Speaker 1: of a sudden the conversation switches and you're like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: like I'm probably gonna kiss this person now. Obviously the
Speaker 1: metaphor is whatever, but it is very similar. It really
Speaker 1: is interesting.
Speaker 3: You talked about a couple of things.
Speaker 2: You talked about the Tibbs news that that's been fascinating
Speaker 2: to We'll switch gears now into kind of like the
Speaker 2: brass tacks I guess of the NBA te because I
Speaker 2: think everyone's been wanting to know what's going on with
Speaker 2: the Knicks. Everyone's wanting to know, how could a new
Speaker 2: management team come in hand select the guy. That guy
Speaker 2: end up winning Coach of the Year, taking a team
Speaker 2: that hasn't been to the playoffs, and god knows how
Speaker 2: long to the four seed getting home court advantage, obviously
Speaker 2: flaming out to a team that overperformed right, and then
Speaker 2: a year later after a lot of the moves that
Speaker 2: he wanted the management to make did not get made.
Speaker 2: Guys that come in that are very clearly not Tibbs,
Speaker 2: guys like not defensive guys, say like Evan Fournier, say
Speaker 2: like Kemba Walker, and then a couple of key injuries.
Speaker 2: How one could see that management team who hands selected
Speaker 2: Tibbs going away from him and firing him so early
Speaker 2: on in his contract.
Speaker 3: Can you just kind of shed light on that evolution, and.
Speaker 2: Then how like maybe this team and how they've been
Speaker 2: performing late changes maybe the trajectory of where they go
Speaker 2: with Tibbs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think ultimately, from my understanding, I don't think
Speaker 1: his job ever really was in jeopardy, being that, as
Speaker 1: I wrote yesterday and as I'll definitely say now, like,
Speaker 1: it seems pretty clear Leon Rose has never had any
Speaker 1: intention of making the change at his bench. And honestly,
Speaker 1: I've kind of dipped off Twitter a bit in the
Speaker 1: New York World for the last couple of weeks months,
Speaker 1: Like when I put that story out, I was honestly
Speaker 1: genuinely surprised how many Knicks fans were not happy with
Speaker 1: that news, being that I think, I mean, I live
Speaker 1: here in Brooklyn, like a couple months, a couple of
Speaker 1: months ago. I mean that bing Bong night feels very
Speaker 1: very very recent, right, And that was still so fresh
Speaker 1: off that playoff run, eat and Eat that even after
Speaker 1: they flamed out with Atlanta, like the Garden was back,
Speaker 1: the city was rocking, and like Tibbs was the guy.
Speaker 1: And it's really crazy how quickly the fans can shift gears.
Speaker 1: And it's important because in a city like New York
Speaker 1: and in many cities, when when when the fans turned
Speaker 1: the tide to some degree that loudly, it can absolutely
Speaker 1: get back to ownership, which changes the direction of what
Speaker 1: management wants to do, sometimes for worse. And I think
Speaker 1: it is important to recognize here that as much as
Speaker 1: James Dolan's gotten his flack over the years, I do
Speaker 1: think what I've heard, and it's been pretty consistent over
Speaker 1: my career, he seems to give his management free reign
Speaker 1: to do as they do please, which is what I
Speaker 1: reported this week that basically the word I got was that,
Speaker 1: you know, ownership. I don't know if it was Dolan specifically,
Speaker 1: but permission, you know, do what you want. If you
Speaker 1: want to keep him, great. If you don't find a
Speaker 1: new guy, that's fine too. So that's at least interesting,
Speaker 1: but that also maybe might not be interesting at all,
Speaker 1: being that that's obviously just generally how it's gone, I think,
Speaker 1: to the roster point of it all, that's kind of
Speaker 1: been the biggest dynamic I think, and also being that
Speaker 1: time and again even last year, like during the regular season,
Speaker 1: teams that would lose to Minnesota, excuse me, lose to
Speaker 1: the Knicks, Like I remember Minnesota. One time I was
Speaker 1: talking to some guys on that staff after they lost
Speaker 1: to the Knicks and they were saying, like, they beat
Speaker 1: you up and were playing four and five nights, and
Speaker 1: they don't like they're nights where you want to let
Speaker 1: go of the rope because it's just the Tim's defense
Speaker 1: coming at you. In the shortened year COVID, you know, shortness,
Speaker 1: with the weird roster crunches and all that type of stuff,
Speaker 1: they called their way to the four seed. Juluce Randel
Speaker 1: has his career year that a lot of people in
Speaker 1: the Knicks organization were already saying back then, this is
Speaker 1: not going to be replicable. They're people with the Knicks
Speaker 1: at the time who were I mean and still to
Speaker 1: this day in New York, who were saying that, you know,
Speaker 1: he's not worth that contract, we should even consider looking
Speaker 1: to trade him at that deadline, that conversation happened. I
Speaker 1: definitely have written this, but they never really did really
Speaker 1: entertain that that Julius was their guy that wanted to reward.
Speaker 1: He was the kind of focal point that was going
Speaker 1: to lift them continually through the playoffs, and maybe someone
Speaker 1: like Dame was gonna want to come right That was
Speaker 1: kind of the goal. And obviously we are not there
Speaker 1: right now. So I recognize why fans would want to
Speaker 1: have a drastic change here. But everything I've heard, it
Speaker 1: seems like coach in front office are still generally on
Speaker 1: the same page, and they recognize the rosters flawed. They've
Speaker 1: got things to adjust and really restructure this summer. I
Speaker 1: do think they're going to try to be very active
Speaker 1: in doing so. I don't want to say that there's
Speaker 1: going to be a lot of activity, though definitively, because
Speaker 1: they seemed very destined to do that at the deadline.
Speaker 1: And as I wrote also yesterday, the way the Nicks
Speaker 1: apparently operate as a front office in these negotiations, they
Speaker 1: get a little picky and they I mean no pun intended,
Speaker 1: but they really want extra draft picks all the time
Speaker 1: and all these deals, and it's apparently led to a
Speaker 1: lot of these trade talks falling apart. So if that
Speaker 1: continues in the off season, I wonder how successful they
Speaker 1: actually will be in really retooling this roster.
Speaker 2: Do you think agents, like as a general rule, make
Speaker 2: great front office members because it feels like agents want
Speaker 2: to just and you've got a bunch of a bunch
Speaker 2: of examples of it not being great. You got one
Speaker 2: example obviously of it going really well with Bob Myers
Speaker 2: and Golden State, But like it feels like agents always
Speaker 2: want to squeeze out every last drop that they can,
Speaker 2: to the detriment of maybe harmony between the fraternity.
Speaker 3: In the NBA.
Speaker 2: And now you've got guys coming from CIA, right, Leon
Speaker 2: Rose has been doing this a long time. World Why West,
Speaker 2: who I consider sort of like from above the clouds,
Speaker 2: like you don't. He's got like a tower, a tower
Speaker 2: like villain like castle in the sky and it's like
Speaker 2: looking down, yes, and like nobody really sees him or
Speaker 2: knows what he's up to, but he's kind of got.
Speaker 3: His fingers and everything.
Speaker 2: Do you think that that that's something that we're gonna
Speaker 2: see moving forward? Do you think that actually like makes sense?
Speaker 1: I mean, no, I don't and I don't want to
Speaker 1: speak like so definitively on it, because a, the Lakers,
Speaker 1: Rob Linka won a championship and it's only been it's
Speaker 1: only been less than two it's been two years since
Speaker 1: Leon took over in New York. So if I learned
Speaker 1: anything like over my years covering team building and the
Speaker 1: book reporting, you know, I think it's it's important to
Speaker 1: consider the fact that, like a lot of times, something
Speaker 1: happens for good and for and for bad that you
Speaker 1: didn't expect to happen all of a sudden, Like you're
Speaker 1: Memphis and you have John Morant and you're set for
Speaker 1: the next decade. Right, So like if the Knicks somehow
Speaker 1: when the number one picked this yere right, Like, wow,
Speaker 1: the garden looks a lot different, you know. So I
Speaker 1: don't want to definitely say that the end. And the Lakers,
Speaker 1: of course, like we already talked about, won a title
Speaker 1: and I still got Lebron, Like they got a lot
Speaker 1: of options on the table this summer. Like who's to
Speaker 1: say what those guys can't continue to accomplish, But it's
Speaker 1: there's definitely hasn't seemed to be a smooth process and
Speaker 1: a smooth transition, being that both those tenures have clearly
Speaker 1: been riddled with drama and a little bit of chaos
Speaker 1: and confusion and deals falling short. And again the Lakers
Speaker 1: won the title. But like at the time of the
Speaker 1: Anthony Davis trading, still today people on the league always
Speaker 1: talk about that being an overpay and that David Griffin
Speaker 1: did a pretty solid job and getting a strong haul
Speaker 1: when like there was no other option, like he wanted
Speaker 1: to go to the Lakers, the Lakers wanted him, like
Speaker 1: they I mean, they didn't they didn't really have a
Speaker 1: need and and you know, they did stuff to kind
Speaker 1: of sabotage Boston being a real player to go trade
Speaker 1: for him and stuff like that, Like there was no
Speaker 1: need for the Lakers to have to pay that much,
Speaker 1: but they did. And so you take your hat off
Speaker 1: to the Pelicans, but also you raise an eyebrow a
Speaker 1: bit at the Lakers for that. So to answer your question,
Speaker 1: it's just I think a lot of these teams want
Speaker 1: to bring on these player rep type guys that these
Speaker 1: Nike people to try to you know, play this player
Speaker 1: movement game, but the apparel game and the agent game
Speaker 1: to sign players. Sometimes it's just about how much money
Speaker 1: you can give them. And in the NBA, everyone can
Speaker 1: pay each other the same amount and the incumbent team
Speaker 1: can pay them more. So when so now like in
Speaker 1: this you know, no holds barred game, like you're all
Speaker 1: of a sudden stripped of your biggest weapon. How good
Speaker 1: are you as an operator? Now? It's that I think
Speaker 1: that's what it really comes down to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you mentioned David Griffins kind of led me to
Speaker 2: my next thought around the Knicks, and I guess where
Speaker 2: we're at with a team that all of a sudden
Speaker 2: has gone from being very very bad to being like
Speaker 2: much better than we expected them to be in the Pelicans,
Speaker 2: to the point where I wonder whether a guy who's
Speaker 2: you know, had like a Sambui career so far, a
Speaker 2: grey godin like career so far in terms of the
Speaker 2: amount of games that he's played and a lot of
Speaker 2: that being spurred by issues with conditioning and his weight.
Speaker 2: And that's obviously Zion, right. So, like, if you're the
Speaker 2: Pelicans and if you're the Knicks, you know what happens
Speaker 2: to like in your what you've kind of talked about
Speaker 2: and seen, Like, what do you think happens to Zion.
Speaker 1: I mean, what I've learned is that predicting the next
Speaker 1: revolution of that situation is a fool's Errand but yeah,
Speaker 1: I do think. I mean, the the overall context right
Speaker 1: now is that they're they're hurtling towards this extension, right
Speaker 1: and you know, will he take the qualifying offer? No
Speaker 1: one's ever done at blah blah blah. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think I'd be I'd be surprised if that didn't happen, right, Like,
Speaker 1: it's very it's it'd be historic for him to do so.
Speaker 1: And this season has only made his you know, you
Speaker 1: just mentioned Sam Bowie and uh and Greg Oden right Like,
Speaker 1: if I'm Zion Williams said I'm taking as much money
Speaker 1: as I can get right now, guarantee long term, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think that would be conventional wisdom at this point. Right,
Speaker 1: So that's the case when that clearly benefits New Orleans
Speaker 1: to some degree, if they want to even continue to
Speaker 1: be building around him, which people opposed, But come on, like,
Speaker 1: when this guy's been healthy, he's been what you why
Speaker 1: you took Greg Oden and Sam Boobie at at number
Speaker 1: one or number two whatever wherever Sam Belli went So
Speaker 1: it's like it's it seems thorny, But at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, like they built this team with c J.
Speaker 1: McCollum and Brandon Ingram and Jonnas Valanciunas is having a
Speaker 1: career season and they've got these young wing pieces. Herb
Speaker 1: Jones might be like one of the better rookie I
Speaker 1: mean with him and Tea's tible just came in of
Speaker 1: late and I've been like two of the greatest defensive
Speaker 1: rookie wings, like of all time. Literally, So you throw
Speaker 1: those guys in and I mean, they seem to be
Speaker 1: a team that should absolutely be right with Minnesota in
Speaker 1: terms of like the back half of these like young
Speaker 1: up and coming playoff teams now. So honestly, this could
Speaker 1: be a situation I think where we look back on again,
Speaker 1: the help is obviously the massive, big question mark, but
Speaker 1: we were having those conversations about Joelle and being at
Speaker 1: some point too, and look where Philadelpha is. So if
Speaker 1: Zion can have a similar bounce back, and obviously different injuries,
Speaker 1: different people, different circumstances, you know, who's to say the
Speaker 1: Pelicans can't be if they make the post of the
Speaker 1: play in tournament, like that'll be a quote unquote posts
Speaker 1: in appearance like who's to say they can't be back
Speaker 1: in the postseason next season? And even raised up a
Speaker 1: little bit level with Zion in the fold, Like I
Speaker 1: think that's very much on the table. Still.
Speaker 2: You mentioned also and you wrote about this recently, is
Speaker 2: all this Lakers drama.
Speaker 3: I don't know where they.
Speaker 2: Go, Like, I'm just thinking about I talked about this
Speaker 2: on the podcast earlier this week, and like, I'm probably
Speaker 2: more on the like on the cynical alarmis side. That's
Speaker 2: probably why I would be a horrible newsbreaker, because I
Speaker 2: just see, like Tea leaves in a way, and I'm
Speaker 2: very skeptical. You've got only three ways you can really
Speaker 2: make moves, right, You've got the draft, which they don't
Speaker 2: have no damn draft picks. You've got free agency but
Speaker 2: they don't have any cap space. And then you've got trades, right,
Speaker 2: and then you have to have assets obviously to make
Speaker 2: a deal and to trade that matches salaries and that
Speaker 2: it makes sense for people, and a lot of times
Speaker 2: draft picks come in to those trades, which is a
Speaker 2: very like you said, thorny situation, is probably the best
Speaker 2: way or the most like optimistic way to say it.
Speaker 2: To me, it only feels like there's one real asset
Speaker 2: that makes that has any likelihood, even if it's very little,
Speaker 2: like I think Russ obviously is difficult to trade.
Speaker 3: That's a negative trade asset right now.
Speaker 2: Given all of the low lights that we're seeing, I mean,
Speaker 2: guys are just making fun of him out there, like
Speaker 2: they're just literally clowning him in the media, on Twitter,
Speaker 2: on the court, in press conferences.
Speaker 3: The amount of money is obscene.
Speaker 2: Like to me, it feels like the only real asset
Speaker 2: to make this team better if you actually want to
Speaker 2: win a championship is the trade Anthony Davis, the only
Speaker 2: piece that you have. Am I wrong to believe that
Speaker 2: that's really the only asset that could be moved for
Speaker 2: something of value?
Speaker 1: Well, I do think that. I mean, Taylen Horton talker
Speaker 1: was involved in a lot of conversations at the deadline,
Speaker 1: and you know, as I put in that next story
Speaker 1: to be very synergetic here, do you think that three
Speaker 1: team deal with Toronto and New York would have gone
Speaker 1: down if the Knicks didn't And that's what I've heard
Speaker 1: from from several accounts that that the Knicks asking for
Speaker 1: more draft capital was but ultimately had that deal fall short.
Speaker 1: So I do think Taylor still has his fans around
Speaker 1: the league.
Speaker 2: I mean the recap for folks who for recap, for
Speaker 2: folks who didn't read the article, what.
Speaker 3: Was the deal?
Speaker 1: I'm gonna batch it completely off the top of my head,
Speaker 1: but it was definitely Taylor, Horton, Tucker, and Neurleans. Noel
Speaker 1: would have been in Toronto. Alec Burks and Cam Rettish
Speaker 1: I believe would have gone to the Lakers and Goran
Speaker 1: Drogic and at least the Raptors first round pick. That
Speaker 1: package that went to Toronto would have gone to New
Speaker 1: York and then and the Knicks. From what I was
Speaker 1: told was we're looking for more picks after that. So
Speaker 1: I mean, it wouldn't have been a dramatic increase for
Speaker 1: the Lakers, I don't think. I mean, Alc Burgs would
Speaker 1: have been a messile ball handling addition, But I mean
Speaker 1: to what degree Cam Reddish I don't. I don't know
Speaker 1: what he is really in terms of a consistent rotation player.
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone really does, honestly. And then that's
Speaker 1: why he wanted to get traded out of Atlanta right
Speaker 1: to have that type of consistent playing time, So to
Speaker 1: bring it back to the Lakers, like, I don't know
Speaker 1: how much that would have done for them and the
Speaker 1: Anthony Davis thing. When I wrote a big takeout thing
Speaker 1: on the Lakers two three weeks ago, I was surprised
Speaker 1: to see Lakers fans reactions how many of them wanted
Speaker 1: them to look into trading idea. I was, I don't
Speaker 1: think that's even remotely going to be considered from for
Speaker 1: everything I've been told, and not just for the clutch
Speaker 1: dynamic of it all. But I just think like they
Speaker 1: traded all that stuff to New Orleans that we talked
Speaker 1: about to pair Lebron and Anthony Davis together, and when
Speaker 1: they were healthy and really consistent, they won the title.
Speaker 1: So I mean, people with the Lakers still talk about
Speaker 1: right now to this day. Maybe it's changed in the
Speaker 1: last three days or so, but they're still they're still
Speaker 1: singing the same two of if we're if we're healthy,
Speaker 1: no one's gonna want to see us all that jazz.
Speaker 1: So I mean, if they can pull some magic this
Speaker 1: summer with a deadline trade or whatever, you know, a
Speaker 1: draft type trade or whatever, I'm not so sure to
Speaker 1: me With lebron'ze extension thing coming up, I've been saying
Speaker 1: this in conversations with people in the league the last
Speaker 1: couple of days. I wonder how him and his people
Speaker 1: will respond if they hear this podcast. But if I'm Lebron,
Speaker 1: I'm taking a pay cut. I think that would dramatically
Speaker 1: help the Lakers situation and help them add flexibility. I mean,
Speaker 1: Brady did that in New England. I believe he did
Speaker 1: it in Tampa Bay. I think Peyton Manning did it
Speaker 1: in Denver. Like, honestly, that guy and take you take
Speaker 1: your hat off to him for building a global entity
Speaker 1: around himself. He's a billionaire, so you know, we're all
Speaker 1: whispering about what team he's gonna ultimately try to buy.
Speaker 1: Is it going to be this potential Vegas you know,
Speaker 1: addition or another team that like which team could get
Speaker 1: sold up coming here? Like if that's the case, why
Speaker 1: does need the max? Like why can't he Why can't
Speaker 1: he take ten to fifteen million and create maybe even
Speaker 1: a MAX space to go sign somebody to come join them.
Speaker 1: You know, Like that's honestly something that I think should
Speaker 1: be talked about. If I'm in the Lakers world, I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's any if that's possible at all,
Speaker 1: but I do know that I think it's very unlikely
Speaker 1: Anthony Davis gets moved, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Because it feels like that's the only other option too,
Speaker 2: right when you talk about roster construction and how much
Speaker 2: money they're spending and they've got a bunch of guys
Speaker 2: on minimum contracts and that's just not getting it done.
Speaker 2: I think if you're honest with yourself and you truly
Speaker 2: actually want a ring, and you wanted to get more championships,
Speaker 2: which is kind of the whole goal of this, not
Speaker 2: just to have a bunch of clutch clients playing with
Speaker 2: one another in purple and gold. To because there's a
Speaker 2: lot of people who are gonna throw shay to Anthony
Speaker 2: Davis for that ring because they're calling it the a
Speaker 2: Disney like bubble ring.
Speaker 3: Right to have a legitimate ring in an eighty two.
Speaker 2: Game season, when you're on the road and have no
Speaker 2: asterisks around it, there's got to be something.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think that that's being considered considered right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not me who's saying that, but there's
Speaker 2: there's fans who call it the asterisk bring.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they do. I'm not saying that, Please U.
Speaker 3: I'm not saying it either. I'm not saying it either.
Speaker 1: But no, I think I'm not. I mean I understand why,
Speaker 1: being that ultimately he has not performed for that degree
Speaker 1: since the bubble, like it's been clear. I mean TJ.
Speaker 1: Warren hasn't either. I mean the Sons will think are
Speaker 1: the only team that's really like bottle up what they
Speaker 1: had down there and took it. I mean, Miami's kind
Speaker 1: of back being a number one season in the East, right,
Speaker 1: But yeah, the bubble was an interesting subnote or footnote
Speaker 1: in the subtext of NBA history. Definitely interesting for sure.
Speaker 2: And when you're twenty eight and you're nickname is street
Speaker 2: Clothes and you've got Achilles tendonosis, which is a degenerative condition,
Speaker 2: it's very difficult.
Speaker 1: It's a precarious because I am twenty eight with achilles tendonosis.
Speaker 3: So are you really what is newsbreaker? Jake Fisher and
Speaker 3: Anthony Davis, two guys that are twenty eight.
Speaker 1: Play pick up a lot of downward before I play
Speaker 1: pick up.
Speaker 2: So you're saying that the real the only way I
Speaker 2: guess that the Lakers can actually make a real title
Speaker 2: run is for Lebron to take a pay cut.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying the only way, but I think it
Speaker 1: would help them a lot. I think that would clearly
Speaker 1: give them a lot more flexibility.
Speaker 2: You did a piece on Zach Lavine, another guy who
Speaker 2: I think is playing out of his mind when healthy
Speaker 2: Chicago awesome. Definitely beneficiaries of the Lakers being cheap and
Speaker 2: not wanting to pay Alex Cruz.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean they are.
Speaker 3: They are.
Speaker 2: I mean watching as a very quick aside watching winning time,
Speaker 2: which is causing obviously a lot of stirs, uh for
Speaker 2: people who are living.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw I saw the pilot at All Star,
Speaker 1: and I mean in the author community. You know, Jeff
Speaker 1: Perlman is a is a is a whale of in
Speaker 1: the sports world. So I showt him a d M
Speaker 1: after the after the premiere and I said, I guess
Speaker 1: it was like a soft premiere. I said, this is
Speaker 1: going to be this is going to be big and
Speaker 1: he said, thank you man, Like why do Like? It's
Speaker 1: definitely yeah, they did not pull any punches in that storytelling,
Speaker 1: that is for sure.
Speaker 3: No people.
Speaker 2: I hit up some people that covered the league during
Speaker 2: that era, and they were not happy. They said they
Speaker 2: would not watch it. They were not happy with the
Speaker 2: historical uh storytelling, some of the details around of course
Speaker 2: Jerry West were people were very upset. So but when
Speaker 2: I when I watched it, though, I think the thing
Speaker 2: that stuck out was how committed doctor Buss was to
Speaker 2: making a team, to making a team a contender no
Speaker 2: matter what. And I said when I watched episode one two,
Speaker 2: he would roll in his grave with this Alex.
Speaker 3: Crew so stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I mean, look, a constant thing you hear
Speaker 1: in conversations around the NBA is that it all starts
Speaker 1: with ownership, right, And like I mean, Mark Cuban is,
Speaker 1: you know, considered to be this really competitive, bloodthirsty wanna
Speaker 1: be champion. I'm not saying he's want to be He's
Speaker 1: a champion. He won a championship, But someone wants to
Speaker 1: be a champion aire a year after year after year.
Speaker 1: There are teams who aren't. Right, Mark Cuban doesn't pay
Speaker 1: the tax like I mean, I'm not saying. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's proven a willingness to do so when it came up.
Speaker 1: But like there are there are a few teams like
Speaker 1: Golden State and Brooklyn that are paying absorbent amount of
Speaker 1: tax every single year to go to go get this done.
Speaker 1: I uppers are obviously going to continue to spend and
Speaker 1: spend and spend. It's it's it's a real factor in
Speaker 1: you know, this arms race that ultimately the title ends
Speaker 1: up becoming.
Speaker 2: Do you think Chicago falls into that because they haven't
Speaker 2: in the past been excited about overpaying or paying fair
Speaker 2: value over the course of history, even when they had
Speaker 2: Michael Jordan Wright and now Zach Colvin has made it
Speaker 2: very clear to the world, not just last year, but
Speaker 2: this year.
Speaker 3: I'm a max player. I'm not going to accept less
Speaker 3: than the very maximum that I can make.
Speaker 2: And now he's getting like PRP in his knee, he's
Speaker 2: got inflammation in his knee, and you're paying a shitload
Speaker 2: of money to everyone.
Speaker 3: Including boos, like what do you yeah?
Speaker 2: Do you think there's a possibility He did an awesome
Speaker 2: feature on him too.
Speaker 3: By the way, I like that.
Speaker 1: Piece a lot, Thank you, Thank you. It was a
Speaker 1: rare opportunity of the last two years to actually sit
Speaker 1: down with a player face to face and have a conversation.
Speaker 1: It was what a novel concept it was. I mean
Speaker 1: That's something I really miss and I think it's one
Speaker 1: part of this whole transaction world that I'd be curious
Speaker 1: what my job would be like if I was then,
Speaker 1: you know, going to someone to shoot around and saying, hey, uh,
Speaker 1: this is what I'm hearing about you and get their point.
Speaker 1: But he's been very clear, like you've said that, I mean,
Speaker 1: he clearly views himself as one of these top guys
Speaker 1: and he and he has performed as such. I think,
Speaker 1: you know, the Bulls have obviously made move after move
Speaker 1: after move to kind of win now and build a
Speaker 1: thing around him to get him into the postseason, to
Speaker 1: show in their place to stick around with, but also
Speaker 1: at the time, like a couple of years ago, they
Speaker 1: also wanted to see him in that environment see if
Speaker 1: he could get to that level. I think that question,
Speaker 1: those questions have already been solved, and clearly that throwing
Speaker 1: out three year, eighty million plus deals to de mar
Speaker 1: de rozen in his thirties like they're willing to spend
Speaker 1: the loonso contract. I mean, Lavine's deal is going to
Speaker 1: be well over two hundred million dollars regardless of it
Speaker 1: he gets that all NBA Team Buch's contract comes off
Speaker 1: the books, I believe after next season, and they're already
Speaker 1: starting to I mean, any smartphont office is doing this.
Speaker 1: They're already starting to kind of hash some backup plans
Speaker 1: and who could be maybe bring in who could be
Speaker 1: a backup for him next year, but could be the
Speaker 1: starter after like that type of stuff. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think our tours karnisovis at up top and from Mark
Speaker 1: Eversley on down like that, that staff is pretty filled
Speaker 1: out with people who are highly respected on the league,
Speaker 1: and our Tours comes from Denver most recently Houston before that.
Speaker 1: You know, teams that really combine all facets of the
Speaker 1: team building dynamics where the draft is important, trade and
Speaker 1: free agency is important, they really flex their muscles in
Speaker 1: all three of those categories in their tenure there. So
Speaker 1: I mean, I iopick of late obviously stands out to
Speaker 1: me recently. And uh, I mean Patrick Williams is someone
Speaker 1: that they kind of targeted pretty quickly and he's a
Speaker 1: darling around the league. So yeah, to answer your question,
Speaker 1: if the success comes like clearly they've shown a ceiling
Speaker 1: now will have to see when they're fully healthy in
Speaker 1: the postseason. And if this team at least wins one round.
Speaker 1: Like I think, obviously the excitement in Chicago from where
Speaker 1: the team's been of late will be pretty significant if
Speaker 1: they can continue to move forward and that they can
Speaker 1: continue to be a real threat in the East, which
Speaker 1: I mean everyone in the East that I talked to
Speaker 1: in terms of executives and coaches among those top teams,
Speaker 1: they viewed Chicago as dangerous, a threat to anybody. So
Speaker 1: if that continues, I think the Balls will pay. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting too because they might end up having
Speaker 2: to play Boston in the first round, and Boston is
Speaker 2: a buzzsaw right now. That is a series I think
Speaker 2: a lot of people want to see, and maybe at
Speaker 2: that point your expectations are just compete on a very
Speaker 2: high level with Boston, given the fact that we haven't
Speaker 2: been healthy, healthy all year. I'm hearing there's take. I'm
Speaker 2: hearing there's some Jake's takes. You're not just a newsbreaker,
Speaker 2: You're not just a newsmaker. You have opinions, which is
Speaker 2: probably incredibly difficult in this space.
Speaker 3: We've talked about this before.
Speaker 2: I lead with takes, and then it's usually substantiated by
Speaker 2: mostly like things, very little things that I hear and
Speaker 2: a lot of Jake Fisher type reporting. So I just
Speaker 2: remember all the things that you've written over the course
Speaker 2: of time, and those and those prior to the show, just.
Speaker 1: Dropping my doc throughout the whole the whole time here.
Speaker 1: So you did your homework clearly.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: Here's the thing. I respect the hell out of you
Speaker 3: when you came out.
Speaker 2: The one thing that I would say that, as you
Speaker 2: said quick aside, that is the most suspect thing you've
Speaker 2: ever written, is when there was clearly a hit piece
Speaker 2: being written about Nate Bjorkrin.
Speaker 3: It wasn't yours, but you can tell it was like.
Speaker 2: There was some going on behind the scenes to like
Speaker 2: take them out and do you know what I'm talking about?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean so my recollection of that was that,
Speaker 1: I mean, around the deadline, the talk was starting that like,
Speaker 1: oh the nape Yurchen thing and in these bad and
Speaker 1: I remember telling my editor like, I don't want to
Speaker 1: be the bad guy, Like I don't want to be
Speaker 1: the first person to say this guy's gonna get fired
Speaker 1: after a year for being by all accounts, a lunatic.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to. That's that's what everyone
Speaker 1: was saying. You know, so I knew that other people,
Speaker 1: let's say, weren't going to write the full details. And yes,
Speaker 1: there is a series of events where one person tweeted
Speaker 1: something out very briefly on Monday night, and then another
Speaker 1: story came out on Tuesday that had a little bit
Speaker 1: more details, and then my story came out on Wednesday
Speaker 1: that was like two thousand words about it. Those details
Speaker 1: that I had, I had been working on quietly, and honestly,
Speaker 1: I will say seeing Tim Cato and Sam Amic write
Speaker 1: the Dallas stuff about her Alabob before all that whole
Speaker 1: situation blew up, that honestly pushed me. I was like, man,
Speaker 1: I should I should have just written that bureau and
Speaker 1: stuff first. And it definitely got I mean, it took
Speaker 1: all in life. But yes, could continue with whatever you.
Speaker 3: Were anyway, but you're not.
Speaker 2: You're not just a news breaker, a newsmaker. I'm hearing
Speaker 2: that there are takes, So you've come prepared with things.
Speaker 2: The opinions, we don't know which direction that they're going.
Speaker 2: So I'm just gonna kind of like, what are some
Speaker 2: some things that grind your gears that you have some
Speaker 2: strong opinions about around the NBA all.
Speaker 1: Right, this is very they're all general but and this
Speaker 1: is this first one is not that controversial, but you
Speaker 1: gotta get rid of the block charge. It is the
Speaker 1: dumbest rule possible. It's not a basketball play. When I
Speaker 1: play basketball at as a twenty eight year old with
Speaker 1: the killers, tend to notice this. No one's taking a
Speaker 1: charge because no one wants to get hurt because not
Speaker 1: getting paid for it. And you know what, the game
Speaker 1: is fine and it's better and we don't have to
Speaker 1: worry about like when you're driving and then you pass
Speaker 1: it to someone in the corner, then you no longer
Speaker 1: have the ball in your hands and you take two
Speaker 1: steps because you have momentum and you just run into
Speaker 1: someone who's just standing there. That's not that's not a foul.
Speaker 1: That's just someone walking in front of you wanting to
Speaker 1: get hit. Like, that's not that guy who's doing that
Speaker 1: should go play a football or lacrosse. That's not what
Speaker 1: basketball is. That's my first tick, and I keep going,
Speaker 1: or you gottam.
Speaker 3: I actually like that take.
Speaker 2: I think it's super whack, especially down the stretch, like
Speaker 2: when you see guys very clearly they're planning to kick
Speaker 2: out and then they make contact. I don't think that
Speaker 2: should be block war charge. Like I hate it when
Speaker 2: it's a block more.
Speaker 3: Because it's like you just I don't. I don't know
Speaker 3: why this guy's getting credit for this at all whatsoever.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I agree, I agree.
Speaker 2: There's there's another rules change. Is this is the second
Speaker 2: one and rules change.
Speaker 1: This is an branding thought, all right, all the jerseys,
Speaker 1: all the jerseys. It's it's gotten to a point where
Speaker 1: it's horrific, like really really actually I found out, Yes,
Speaker 1: I found out recently in a G League game, two
Speaker 1: teams walked out both wearing white jerseys lately, Like I mean,
Speaker 1: we're just we're in this situation where like every team
Speaker 1: gets five new jerseys every year. The Heat had this
Speaker 1: like weird thing where in the Cavs to where every
Speaker 1: letter is different from the other one. This is an
Speaker 1: obvious money grab. Yeah, it looks like a ransom note.
Speaker 1: It's an obvious money grab. I think it really ruins
Speaker 1: like cultural development of like a pride thing with that
Speaker 1: team because you don't like I remember when I was
Speaker 1: visiting college campuses in high school, Like my guidance counsel said,
Speaker 1: like when you're walking around the schools that are always
Speaker 1: wearing they're like they're they're like school of stuff. Like
Speaker 1: that's how you know the people. They are like happy
Speaker 1: and like their school. So like if you're walking around
Speaker 1: town and like, I don't know when I see orange,
Speaker 1: I don't like this orange and like black, like I
Speaker 1: don't necessarily think nick. Maybe that's a bad example. I
Speaker 1: don't know, but like the Timberwolves lime green jerseys are
Speaker 1: an eyesore, you know what I mean? Like I don't know,
Speaker 1: how about the terrible Yeah, so I'm over all the jerseys. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe you have just like one new one every year
Speaker 1: or like one alternate, one new alternate, and like one holiday,
Speaker 1: whether it's like they're on Christmas or like those Saint
Speaker 1: Patti Day's jerseys that used to come up, like those
Speaker 1: green Bulls ones like maybe that are like and you
Speaker 1: wear your Christmas jerseys not just on Christmas, like a
Speaker 1: couple of like the Christmas season, you know time, and
Speaker 1: maybe there's like you know, the Hawks have a cool
Speaker 1: m located jersey. Maybe there's like a one holiday that
Speaker 1: every team has, maybe the heat and the signs and
Speaker 1: teams and we all do the Latin American you know,
Speaker 1: hell or heritage night jerseys that have pretty high Latin
Speaker 1: American population in their cities. Like, maybe that's there alternate,
Speaker 1: but we don't. We can't have five to six every year.
Speaker 1: Can't have it. It's too much.
Speaker 3: The digital.
Speaker 2: I saw this digital the digital Pizanos on the floor
Speaker 2: at Chase Center.
Speaker 3: It's a digital ad on the floor digital.
Speaker 2: And it's was it for the NBC Sports Washington Wizards
Speaker 2: versus Warriors and it was a Wizards. It was like
Speaker 2: a DC Italian restaurant probably paid ten bucks for that ad.
Speaker 3: Max And and like when you walk over at your
Speaker 3: feet go go digital too. I hate that. Yeah, that
Speaker 3: should not be.
Speaker 1: In the bubble. It first happened in the bubble because
Speaker 1: they had to do that for all the local rsns.
Speaker 1: That's but they only had like three courts. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: it's And I remember Kia was advertising on the playoffs
Speaker 1: but they changed their logo, and I remember me and
Speaker 1: my roommate trying to figure out what the company was
Speaker 1: because we couldn't like recognize the new Kia logo, which
Speaker 1: I think is obviously the opposite of what advertises. Goal is.
Speaker 3: And team take.
Speaker 1: You have a team take, I do, but I have
Speaker 1: one more other one quickly. There should be a stat
Speaker 1: when you drive to the basket and it's like you
Speaker 1: get by somebody, not like you're just there, like you
Speaker 1: actually make a move, you create an opportunity for yourself
Speaker 1: and you miss, but someone then has an easy put back.
Speaker 1: There should be a stat for that. I checked with
Speaker 1: a couple of analytics friends on the league. There is not.
Speaker 1: That should be a registered accounted skill.
Speaker 3: What do you think that would be called?
Speaker 1: Like a no idea like as yeah, drivers, yeah, a mississist,
Speaker 1: I don't know, something like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you could add that in like like whip
Speaker 3: in baseball.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And my team take is that I think the
Speaker 1: Celtics are legitimate contender to win the title.
Speaker 3: What a hot take. That is a hot take.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's that hot.
Speaker 3: But they're forty No, it's not. They're forty to forty
Speaker 3: to one to win it all right, Now.
Speaker 1: They are good. They are Like I'm pretty blowing away
Speaker 1: by who they are. I was, I mean, yeah, there
Speaker 1: was all this talk in December. Oh it's not going well,
Speaker 1: Jaylen Brown, Desent Tatum one's getting traded, and now it's like, wow,
Speaker 1: that's celto star juggernaut. That team's not going anywhere. Everyone's untouchable,
Speaker 1: like it's it's changed pretty quickly.
Speaker 2: It's crazy how fast, like Marcus Smart's return into that lineup,
Speaker 2: who was essentially a liability offensively a ton just his return,
Speaker 2: like they just all of a sudden just started sharing the.
Speaker 1: Ball a lot.
Speaker 2: They they're playing elite, elite defense I want to say,
Speaker 2: like top two defense in the league since that time period,
Speaker 2: just clamping teams.
Speaker 3: Uh, I don't actually know what happened.
Speaker 2: Uh, maybe just integrating the things that he may wanted
Speaker 2: to do and they actually just started executing it. Maybe
Speaker 2: making a couple of moves, you know, with Derek White
Speaker 2: obviously that helps.
Speaker 3: And the emergence of Robert Williams.
Speaker 2: It went from you know, what it led me to
Speaker 2: believe is like or think about, is how many teams
Speaker 2: are closer than we think to being good.
Speaker 3: Because they were a disaster.
Speaker 1: They were a disaster.
Speaker 2: Last year for sure, And like Al Horford, I didn't
Speaker 2: think he would be helpful really either.
Speaker 1: He's been great. I think yeah, I think ultimately that
Speaker 1: like what is the recipe of springing into success after
Speaker 1: being pretty poop is to have talent and that's ultimately
Speaker 1: why we're in this league where the Sixers are trading
Speaker 1: Ben Simmons for James Harden and teams are tanking and
Speaker 1: you know, Russell Westbrusk getting trade to the Lakers and
Speaker 1: all that stuff, because like when you have all stars
Speaker 1: who are playing at the peak of their powers, like
Speaker 1: stuff just gets done. And they've got Jason Tatum and
Speaker 1: Jaylen Brown and Tatum clearly looks like to be taking
Speaker 1: even another leap as a general offensive you know, central
Speaker 1: hub of a team and the defense surrounding that has
Speaker 1: been what it's been. Jalen Brown is still an all
Speaker 1: star level player. Derek White addition Marcus Smart, Like it's
Speaker 1: just the same thing with Phoenix, right, Like Devin Booker
Speaker 1: took that leap. They bring on Chris Paul and here
Speaker 1: they are, Like it's not really that surprising. I think
Speaker 1: when you've got talent and depth and defense and shooting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't let you go before I ask you
Speaker 2: my resident Brooklyn nets Okay, well, will we see Kyrie
Speaker 2: play home games because it doesn't feel right now based
Speaker 2: on the laws needing to change that we will. And two, like,
Speaker 2: how concerning is everything going on with Ben Simmons's back
Speaker 2: given his injury history.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the back obviously. You know, I think people were
Speaker 1: looking at it skeptically at first, as like, oh, it's
Speaker 1: just a reason to not play in that March tenth game.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's something that's played in back to Philly,
Speaker 1: And from what I was told by someone very close
Speaker 1: the situation, as long as they're telling me the truth,
Speaker 1: this will be accurate. That he was on the court
Speaker 1: with Nash going well and then he tweaked something and
Speaker 1: it's been, it's been. It was a setback, essentially, and
Speaker 1: that's why that these teams always talk about, you know,
Speaker 1: ramping up, ramping up, Like, I really don't think it's bullshit,
Speaker 1: Like I think teams take like working out playing with
Speaker 1: the anti Christmas in a high school gym is like
Speaker 1: they take that very differently than NBA game action, and
Speaker 1: as they should. So I'm not sure where his status
Speaker 1: stands right now. I haven't checked in with anybody about
Speaker 1: it recently, but the last I was told was that, like,
Speaker 1: they really do only truly want him to be ready
Speaker 1: for April. So I think that calculus clearly won't, won't
Speaker 1: and will not change that. They just want to be
Speaker 1: as cautious and safe as they can in terms of
Speaker 1: ramping him back up to playing, because yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: know if Kyrie Irving is going to be able to
Speaker 1: play home games this year at this point, you know,
Speaker 1: the city, I mean, there's starting to be this discussion of, oh, well,
Speaker 1: the Yankees, will they will then coming back? Will that
Speaker 1: have an added boost to you know, Kyrie's plight here
Speaker 1: of trying to make a special exemption quote unquote for
Speaker 1: him or for anybody. But I mean, the city just
Speaker 1: fired over one thousand more employees over not getting the vaccine,
Speaker 1: and lifting the mask mandate is way different than lifting
Speaker 1: the vaccine mandate. I think the mask mandate being lifted
Speaker 1: was part of like the goal of the city to
Speaker 1: encourage people to get vaccinated, to try to or just
Speaker 1: back and more to normalcy. So I was starting to
Speaker 1: think that, oh, yeah, now that Kyrie's pulling the stunt
Speaker 1: and going which was a stunt, Like I'm not saying
Speaker 1: that in any derogative way, Like it was a stunt
Speaker 1: to go to the guard or the Barclay Center and
Speaker 1: sit courtside and be maskless as a well known unvaccinated person.
Speaker 1: So I guess I don't know what the vaccine requirement
Speaker 1: situation is that he was allowed in with. I don't
Speaker 1: it's the whole thing is obviously so murky, But I
Speaker 1: just I don't think anything is going to change in
Speaker 1: terms of what the city and the mayor are going
Speaker 1: to do to allow him to play basketball games anytime soon.
Speaker 1: If Brooklyn continues to go further into the playoffs, if
Speaker 1: they're playing in May and June somehow with him only
Speaker 1: knowing at away games, maybe that can change. But at
Speaker 1: this point, like, I don't think there's any optimism that's
Speaker 1: gonna that's gonna happen anytime in the near future.
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, that's that's interesting because they were optimistic at
Speaker 2: one point because I think they thought that when the
Speaker 2: vaccination requirements changed for visit for visiting like for visitors,
Speaker 2: for people who came in and watched the game, that
Speaker 2: that would change for him as well. And then obviously
Speaker 2: visiting teams that are non non vaccinated can play as well.
Speaker 3: So the logic doesn't necessarily really correlate.
Speaker 2: To the fact that a whole law has to change
Speaker 2: and thousands of people are being let go because of
Speaker 2: said law, and if you change the law, then what
Speaker 2: do you do with those people?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's a millionaire who really theoretically could change
Speaker 1: this by just getting the shot. So and I'm not
Speaker 1: going to tell anyone to do what they I'm not
Speaker 1: going to tell ayone to do with the what to do.
Speaker 1: But that's a clear east the solution if the nets
Speaker 1: and Kyrie, do you want him to play on the game?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, awesome stuff.
Speaker 2: We got you out in the time period that I
Speaker 2: was hoping to get it out under. You're always insightful.
Speaker 2: We got to do this more, you know, here's here's
Speaker 2: let's test this out. So, Jake, I would like to
Speaker 2: I don't I don't have any interest in breaking any news,
Speaker 2: but I would like to regularly pester you. Is it
Speaker 2: okay if I call you on the phone, we have
Speaker 2: some regularly pestering type conversations.
Speaker 3: Is that Is that okay with you?
Speaker 1: Let's do all right? I think creating the commenser relationship
Speaker 1: to do that. I'm tually talking with you. Let's catch up.
Speaker 3: Awesome, Thanks so much to Jake Fisher.
Speaker 2: Definitely check his book out, Built to Lose How the
Speaker 2: NBA's tanking era changed the league forever.
Speaker 3: Also, if you want to find him on Twitter. He's
Speaker 3: Jake L. Fisher with a C F I S c
Speaker 3: h e R, so definitely come out there.
Speaker 2: Not as much of an active tweeters as I would like,
Speaker 2: but he is a writer as well, so check this
Speaker 2: workout on bleacher Report and we'll definitely have to have
Speaker 2: you on again