WEBVTT - Ep. 398: Render - Behind the Scenes with Blood Trails

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<v Speaker 1>My name is Clay Nukleman.

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<v Speaker 2>This is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called

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<v Speaker 2>The Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper,

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<v Speaker 2>and look behind the scenes of the actual Bear Grease podcast,

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<v Speaker 2>presented by f h F Gear, American Maid, purpose built

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<v Speaker 2>hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged

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<v Speaker 2>as the place as we explore. So yesterday I was

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<v Speaker 2>checking my multary app as I'm prone to do in

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<v Speaker 2>the evenings primetime, and I see a gilly suited figure

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<v Speaker 2>come across my trail camera and it's Bear and he

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<v Speaker 2>he leans in front of the camera with this arrow

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<v Speaker 2>like this, and there's a rabbit hanging down from his arrow,

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<v Speaker 2>and he's got his self bow. And it was basically

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<v Speaker 2>like sometimes Bear has a challenge in communicating with his father,

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<v Speaker 2>especially when he's in the field. When he's in the field,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm constantly like give me updates, like what do you see?

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<v Speaker 2>Like I need play by play, Like I even say

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<v Speaker 2>I want to know every blue Jay that you see,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, like give me the details, And I get

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<v Speaker 2>like two updates a day, like if he's a long

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<v Speaker 2>ways away. So I felt like this was like a

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<v Speaker 2>picture's worth a thousand words.

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<v Speaker 3>It was like, what more do you need to know?

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<v Speaker 3>You needed to see?

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, you know what you So we're here with Jordan

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<v Speaker 2>Sellers of Meat Eater, of the new podcast Blood Trails

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<v Speaker 2>on meat Eater. That's just done really well. We're going

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<v Speaker 2>to talk all about it. But me and Bear have

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<v Speaker 2>a scenario that the world nothing about that we need

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<v Speaker 2>some input on them. Bear had a trail camera out

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<v Speaker 2>on public land over here and left it out maybe

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit too long during GUNN season, which I

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<v Speaker 2>would have advised him against doing.

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<v Speaker 1>Somebody stole it.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, and they did not turn the video off

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<v Speaker 2>really yeah, And I'm a little nervous to share all

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<v Speaker 2>the details, but I think I can't see any reason

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<v Speaker 2>why I wouldn't. It was a kid, oh like a like.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe like a twelve year old kid. Yeah, and this

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<v Speaker 1>I mean it might as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Like I mean it happened in northwest Arkansas on public land,

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<v Speaker 2>twelve year old kid. Like we have the full video, like,

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<v Speaker 2>take the camera off the tree and then the thing

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<v Speaker 2>continues to play, like take video in the truck on

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<v Speaker 2>the way home, takes it in his house, sets it

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<v Speaker 2>on a counter case outward and basically we get videos

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<v Speaker 2>of this.

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<v Speaker 3>Family for.

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<v Speaker 1>Until the camera ran out.

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<v Speaker 3>Of battery, No kidding.

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<v Speaker 2>I called the sheriff the first day, and I wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>that worried about the trail camera. I wasn't even and

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<v Speaker 2>he was like, well, do you want to press charges

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<v Speaker 2>on these people? And I was like, well, yeah, no,

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<v Speaker 2>probably not. I mean, I didn't want to make a

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<v Speaker 2>big deal about it. I said, I do want y'all

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<v Speaker 2>to know that my trail camera that's in their house

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<v Speaker 2>taking videos of their families has nothing to do with me.

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<v Speaker 1>They stole my trail camera.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you're not spying on them for some reason. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And what's a man to do in that situation? Jordan?

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<v Speaker 3>What would you do?

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<v Speaker 1>What would you have done?

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<v Speaker 2>I tried to shut off the camera, but I couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>figure out how to actually shut the camera down anyway.

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<v Speaker 1>What would you do?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, that's obviously, you know, not y'all's fault at all.

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<v Speaker 4>And I agree with you. It's not so much like

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<v Speaker 4>the camera's not so important. If I was, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>that kid's parent, I would want to know, Hey, this

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<v Speaker 4>is what your kid's doing. But also I think a

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<v Speaker 4>lot of times stuff like that can sometimes be just

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<v Speaker 4>the tip of the iceberg, right right, And so it's

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<v Speaker 4>good to inform law enforcement.

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<v Speaker 3>You don't want to press charges, you don't want.

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<v Speaker 4>To get these people in trouble for that specific thing,

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<v Speaker 4>but you want to say, hey, because maybe maybe someone

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<v Speaker 4>in that household is being investigated for something else and

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<v Speaker 4>law enforcement is going to know that, and so that's

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<v Speaker 4>going to be something that you know they're going to

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<v Speaker 4>want to be in the loop on.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so I think you did the right thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it's also hard to imagine how the parents couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>have been in on it, because this kid went from

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<v Speaker 2>hunting right into a vehicle that was driven home and

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<v Speaker 2>he's got the camera just like bouncing around in the truck.

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<v Speaker 4>And yeah, I mean that's why I say, I think,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, maybe the adults in the house, maybe law

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<v Speaker 4>enforcement will want to know what's going on here, right.

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<v Speaker 5>So yeah, I could imagine that they're not seeing the

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<v Speaker 5>camera the way it's set up, it's got to be

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<v Speaker 5>just like right out in the open.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I just feel like there's a real I still

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<v Speaker 2>am kind of giving them the benefit of the doubt

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<v Speaker 2>in a way, because I almost I mean, it would

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<v Speaker 2>be crazy for someone who these people appeared to be.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, they had camouflage, they had Hunter's orange, they

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<v Speaker 2>had guns, like they kind of knew what they were doing. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>but they were crazy enough to not know that that

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<v Speaker 2>camera was on and taking video right and didn't turn

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<v Speaker 2>it off. So that's step number one that they don't

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<v Speaker 2>really know what's going on. Yeah, but I mean, would

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<v Speaker 2>it be possible in twenty twenty five that some kid

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<v Speaker 2>could have been like, oh, they left their trail camera

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<v Speaker 2>out here. I guess they're not coming back for it.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's get it.

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<v Speaker 4>Do you did you have your like contact info or

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<v Speaker 4>anything on the camera.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not sure we might have, yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>Because in that scenario they knew yeah, right, but maybe

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<v Speaker 4>I mean yeah, maybe it was more innocent and this

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<v Speaker 4>is just like you know, they thought it was theirs

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<v Speaker 4>for the taking.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe well yeah, yeah, it's uh, it was a it

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<v Speaker 2>was a unnerving I mean I was unnerved because I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't wanna. I mean, I don't know, when somebody steals

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<v Speaker 2>something from you, you feel like, yeah, they should be

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<v Speaker 2>held accountable.

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<v Speaker 4>Was it what I mean, what did you see when

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<v Speaker 4>you like it set up on a counter? Is it

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<v Speaker 4>like the kitchen or.

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<v Speaker 2>I checked that multi app like way too much, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>throughout the day. And my first clue was I started

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<v Speaker 2>seeing the cab of a truck, right, and I just

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<v Speaker 2>thought maybe Baird picked up a camera and moved it

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<v Speaker 2>and didn't turn it off, you know. And then I

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<v Speaker 2>started seeing faces of people I didn't know, and it

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<v Speaker 2>was it was taking videos. Yeah, and I didn't request

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<v Speaker 2>like ninety percent of the videos. I never like requested

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<v Speaker 2>the video because on the multi app, you see this

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<v Speaker 2>like thumbnail and you request the video and then it

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<v Speaker 2>sends it to you.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you know, and so.

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<v Speaker 1>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>Anyway, so if if if this is you, if you're

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<v Speaker 2>out there listening and you've taken our trail camera, I

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<v Speaker 2>will not humiliate you publicly. If you'd like to contact me.

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<v Speaker 2>Several people said, well, Klay put this video on online,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was like, there's no way I'm going to

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<v Speaker 2>do that.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, yeah, I'm not.

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<v Speaker 2>Like out for blood, right, But a lot of people

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<v Speaker 2>would have maybe in a different scenario than me.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I mean, I think it makes a big difference

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<v Speaker 4>that it's a kid first, it does, that's.

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<v Speaker 1>A right, videos of parents too, yeah, yeah, or who somebody.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I don't know, I don't know. That's a tough one.

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<v Speaker 5>I've I've had a number of things stolen off public

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<v Speaker 5>land this year, really had a tree stand and then, Uh,

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<v Speaker 5>the most frustrating one was I had a camera that

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<v Speaker 5>I'd set out like way back in there all year

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<v Speaker 5>and I went to go check it and someone had

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<v Speaker 5>just taken the SD card, which is so disappointing. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 5>because I wanted to see what was on there. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 5>have a big buck on there.

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<v Speaker 3>Right.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, they're like, hey, we can maybe get some intel.

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<v Speaker 4>Would have been nice to return it, you know, right,

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<v Speaker 4>look at it.

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<v Speaker 3>Fine. But at least.

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<v Speaker 2>One time, years ago, when I was not using cell

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<v Speaker 2>cameras and I had I had cameras in bear boxes.

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<v Speaker 2>They was in bear country, so I wasn't really trying

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<v Speaker 2>to lock the cameras from people, but I was trying

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<v Speaker 2>to keep them from bears chewing them up. Yeah, And

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<v Speaker 2>so I I left them unlocked but still in a

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<v Speaker 2>bare box, you know. And I wrote in a sharpie

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<v Speaker 2>marker on the thing, my name, my cell phone number,

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<v Speaker 2>and I said call me and I will share these

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<v Speaker 2>images with you.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, there you find it. There you go.

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<v Speaker 4>It's kind of like people who leave their car unlocked, right,

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<v Speaker 4>it's like, don't break my window, just you know, if

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<v Speaker 4>you want the car, just take it, right, you want

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<v Speaker 4>the stuff inside, just take it, you know.

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<v Speaker 3>Well idea.

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<v Speaker 2>I felt like it was a reasonable thing that I did,

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<v Speaker 2>and I never got a single call.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean it was it was so far back.

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<v Speaker 2>The way I justified it in my mind was that

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<v Speaker 2>if there's somebody standing right here, I would I want

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<v Speaker 2>to be their friend, kind of one of those deals

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<v Speaker 2>like I want to know why you're back here because

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<v Speaker 2>this is a dumb place to be, right and uh

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<v Speaker 2>and but I never never had a call. Maybe I

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<v Speaker 2>only got one picture in like a seven year span

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<v Speaker 2>of another person, So somebody walked past that camera would

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<v Speaker 2>have seen that, but they didn't. Didn't mess with a camera. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>so anyway, trail cameras trail cameras.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, speaking of blood trails and trail cameras, the last

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<v Speaker 4>episode in this season, the detective the Hunter was killed

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<v Speaker 4>out in the forest in Michigan, and the detective put

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<v Speaker 4>trail cams looking at the place where the guy died

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<v Speaker 4>because he thought maybe the person who killed him will

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<v Speaker 4>come back. Oh and uh, this is kind of a

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<v Speaker 4>long story, but sure enough, a guy comes back. Multiple days,

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<v Speaker 4>they get photos of him looking down at the spot

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<v Speaker 4>where this guy died, and then he also gets independently

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<v Speaker 4>other tips coming in saying you should look at this guy.

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<v Speaker 4>Turns out it's the same guy. I thought that was

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<v Speaker 4>a smart use of trail cams.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, you think he hid the trail camera though, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>he liked it really well, yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>He hit it, so the guy didn't know there was

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<v Speaker 4>a camera there. But he's walking past this, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>the crime scene, like a week after it happened. Wow,

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<v Speaker 4>And I was like, that's a that's really smart because

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<v Speaker 4>you'd imagine, you know, if that happened, you'd go back

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<v Speaker 4>right if whether it was an accident or on purpose,

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<v Speaker 4>like you kind of have this fascination with that spot.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I won't give it away, but that guy who

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<v Speaker 4>they saw on the trail cam ended up he had

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<v Speaker 4>an alibi.

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<v Speaker 3>And it's this kind of whole thing.

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<v Speaker 2>But oh wow, yeah, well okay, I have a similar scenario,

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<v Speaker 2>but not with a human. So in Arkansas a couple

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<v Speaker 2>of months ago, well October the second, there was a

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<v Speaker 2>bear that killed a man in Arkansas about two hours

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<v Speaker 2>from here. Yeah, Game and Fish put up trail cameras

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<v Speaker 2>at the at the spot and put up a bunch

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<v Speaker 2>of traps and eight and basically, if a bear came

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<v Speaker 2>back in that fit the description of the bear that

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<v Speaker 2>we had pictures of, So that the guy that had

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<v Speaker 2>been killed took pictures of a bear in his camp

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<v Speaker 2>and bear Knwkom and I, by kind of happenstance were

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<v Speaker 2>involved in some way with this. We were there when

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<v Speaker 2>they found it out.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And.

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<v Speaker 2>So they set up so after that day they took

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<v Speaker 2>the body and they set up trail cameras, sell cameras,

0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:33.839
<v Speaker 2>and basically they said, if we get a picture of

0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:36.040
<v Speaker 2>a bear that does not go into trap, the first

0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:38.400
<v Speaker 2>chance was to put it in a trap catch it.

0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:41.679
<v Speaker 2>But it was right during October when all the acrons

0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:43.880
<v Speaker 2>were falling, and all of us that hunted bear over

0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:46.320
<v Speaker 2>bait knew that probably the bear was not going to

0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:48.200
<v Speaker 2>go into trap, and sure enough we were right three

0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:51.040
<v Speaker 2>days later. So it's a Thursday afternoon when we went

0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:55.480
<v Speaker 2>to the scene of where the guy was killed. And

0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.160
<v Speaker 2>then that Sunday afternoon we got a call and I

0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:02.840
<v Speaker 2>knew guys that had dogs that would tree bear, and

0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:05.240
<v Speaker 2>so we got a call that they had a camera

0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:07.280
<v Speaker 2>a bear on camera. This is kind of a follow

0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:10.800
<v Speaker 2>up because we talked about this on Bear Grease Render,

0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:14.679
<v Speaker 2>but we didn't tell the rest of the story, as

0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:19.320
<v Speaker 2>Paul Harry would say, So we thought the bear that

0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:22.800
<v Speaker 2>killed this guy is going to come back to where

0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:23.240
<v Speaker 2>it happened.

0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:24.679
<v Speaker 1>Well, shure it up.

0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:27.880
<v Speaker 2>Three days later, a juvenile male shows up on the

0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:31.079
<v Speaker 2>camera and gave him fish calls, and they're like, bam,

0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:34.679
<v Speaker 2>it's here, bring the hounds. It didn't go on a trap,

0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:38.600
<v Speaker 2>so we zoom over there and uh and basically I

0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:40.959
<v Speaker 2>was just a part of it, and there were there

0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:45.120
<v Speaker 2>were two or three local houndsmen turned loose dogs and

0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:48.040
<v Speaker 2>tree this bear within an hour. I mean, it was

0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:51.960
<v Speaker 2>just like that easy wow, and they shoot the bear.

0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:58.040
<v Speaker 2>I get there right after the bear's been shot. I

0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:01.360
<v Speaker 2>did talk about this. So we hauled the bear out

0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:04.640
<v Speaker 2>in the body bag out of this big canaan and

0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.920
<v Speaker 2>they sent it to the crime lab. And every one

0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:11.079
<v Speaker 2>of us there that night I think would have bet

0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:12.680
<v Speaker 2>our trucks.

0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:13.880
<v Speaker 1>That it was the bear.

0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:16.959
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, just you know, the only bear that showed back

0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:22.520
<v Speaker 2>up goes to the crime lab and it's not the bear.

0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:25.680
<v Speaker 1>The wrong bear.

0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:28.960
<v Speaker 2>Disappointing, So it's kind of like, well, I don't know

0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:33.240
<v Speaker 2>the final don't call it for me, but your criminal

0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:37.520
<v Speaker 2>sounds very similar back to the scene. Our criminal never

0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:42.240
<v Speaker 2>did because one bear in thirty days, they kept trail

0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:46.040
<v Speaker 2>cameras up and fresh bade out for thirty days at

0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:49.000
<v Speaker 2>this place called Sam's Throne where this bear was, where

0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:52.040
<v Speaker 2>this man was killed. Not a single other bear came

0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:54.600
<v Speaker 2>in there. That was the only bear that came back.

0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:58.760
<v Speaker 2>And it was not the bear, and it had a

0:14:58.960 --> 0:14:59.760
<v Speaker 2>blonde muzzle.

0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:03.480
<v Speaker 5>It was a small male like it looked exactly like

0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:04.600
<v Speaker 5>the one in the picture.

0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:07.600
<v Speaker 4>No kidding, Yeah it did. And they had a I know,

0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:11.360
<v Speaker 4>like with I assume they did like DNA testing where

0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:13.920
<v Speaker 4>they compared the saliven things. Yeah, and they had a

0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:16.240
<v Speaker 4>high degree of confidence not the right bear.

0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:19.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, really high degree of confidence because you know the

0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:24.200
<v Speaker 2>body of the man had yeah right bear DNA all

0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:24.560
<v Speaker 2>over it.

0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:25.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah, and.

0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:29.640
<v Speaker 1>So it was a wrong bear.

0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:30.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:32.920
<v Speaker 1>Well, man, tell me about blood trails.

0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:35.240
<v Speaker 2>So if if you're listening to Bear Greece, you've probably

0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:37.720
<v Speaker 2>heard about blood trails before, but.

0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:41.600
<v Speaker 1>Tell me just like the general premise of it.

0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:45.680
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, So it's a it's a true crime podcast about

0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:49.240
<v Speaker 4>hunters and Anglers is kind of the elevator pitch for it.

0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:52.120
<v Speaker 3>So there they're criminal cases.

0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:59.400
<v Speaker 4>Sometimes a hunter is killed, sometimes the hunter is the perpetrator.

0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:04.280
<v Speaker 4>There's a few stories where hunters go missing and it's

0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:07.960
<v Speaker 4>not like you know, he he got lost or whatever.

0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:13.080
<v Speaker 4>There's suspicious circumstances that surround the missing person. And so

0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:16.000
<v Speaker 4>this is the first season. It's almost done as of

0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:19.440
<v Speaker 4>this recording. There's eight episodes in this first season, but

0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:22.440
<v Speaker 4>we're working on more. So if you like these first eight,

0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:25.160
<v Speaker 4>there's gonna be more coming up in the next.

0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:28.720
<v Speaker 2>Year that it'll be there'll be seasons with like blongs

0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:29.560
<v Speaker 2>of episodes.

0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:30.000
<v Speaker 3>Yep.

0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:32.640
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna release them by season. So,

0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:36.360
<v Speaker 4>you know, I don't know exactly what the release schedule

0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:39.400
<v Speaker 4>will look like, but we're thinking sometime in the spring

0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:43.760
<v Speaker 4>we'll release another block of eight to ten and they're.

0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:45.160
<v Speaker 1>Maybe two of those a year.

0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:47.880
<v Speaker 3>Yep, yep. That's the hope. That's the cope.

0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:52.840
<v Speaker 4>And the episodes are usually kind of standalone. Well, I

0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:55.400
<v Speaker 4>think we'll do the occasional like two parter where it's

0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:58.800
<v Speaker 4>you know, two episodes, but you know, each each episode

0:16:58.840 --> 0:16:59.920
<v Speaker 4>is a different case.

0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:00.920
<v Speaker 1>Sty hour long.

0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:03.240
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, about an hour long. Some aer are a little more,

0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:03.920
<v Speaker 3>some a little less.

0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:06.959
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, so did you were you interested in this

0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:10.399
<v Speaker 2>kind of stuff before because you're also a writer.

0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:10.800
<v Speaker 1>At Meat Eater.

0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:13.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, write a lot of just like hunting, fishing stuff,

0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:15.119
<v Speaker 2>NEWSS related stuff.

0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:16.520
<v Speaker 3>Yep, yep. Yeah.

0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:20.600
<v Speaker 4>So I'm I'm the managing editor of the website, so

0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:22.520
<v Speaker 4>I write a lot of the articles on the website.

0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:26.840
<v Speaker 4>I also help Ryan Callahan write his podcast. Okay, so

0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:29.520
<v Speaker 4>he's he does you know, I'm sure everyone knows Cal's

0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:30.119
<v Speaker 4>Week in Review.

0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:31.440
<v Speaker 3>It's a news podcast.

0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:33.880
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, so I'm always sort of in the weeds on

0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:38.040
<v Speaker 4>the latest news, the latest stories coming out. And a

0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:41.000
<v Speaker 4>lot of the stories we cover for both the website

0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:45.240
<v Speaker 4>and for Cal's podcast are crime stories, and usually there

0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:49.040
<v Speaker 4>it's wildlife crime, so it's poachers things like that. But

0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:52.200
<v Speaker 4>you know, occasionally they'll be a hunter who dies and

0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:55.800
<v Speaker 4>we'll cover that type of story as well. So, yeah,

0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:58.760
<v Speaker 4>this is something I've been doing for you know, quite

0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:02.800
<v Speaker 4>a few years now, you know, researching these stories, finding sources,

0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:07.200
<v Speaker 4>trying to put the pieces together. And Blood Trails really

0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:13.119
<v Speaker 4>started with this guy wrote in and he said my

0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:15.800
<v Speaker 4>buddy was killed. He was a Turkey hunter and he

0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:18.280
<v Speaker 4>was killed out in the woods. They never found out

0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:20.800
<v Speaker 4>who did it, but I have some ideas on who

0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:24.560
<v Speaker 4>did it, and that was obviously very interesting. So I

0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:28.000
<v Speaker 4>call him up and he tells me this wild story

0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:31.920
<v Speaker 4>of he did his own kind of investigation. He came

0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:35.240
<v Speaker 4>up with his own suspects, but law enforcement, you know,

0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:37.719
<v Speaker 4>for whatever reason, they never charged anyone.

0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:40.439
<v Speaker 3>He you know, the person who did it was never found.

0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:45.320
<v Speaker 4>And so I thought, this, this story is good enough,

0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:47.960
<v Speaker 4>you know, for not just for an article on the website,

0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:51.679
<v Speaker 4>but for a whole podcast, like a whole episode. And

0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:54.240
<v Speaker 4>so we put out that podcast back in March of

0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:58.000
<v Speaker 4>this year as a kind of a pilot episode, and

0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:00.480
<v Speaker 4>people like that a lot, and so we decided, you

0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:03.040
<v Speaker 4>know what, let's there's plenty of stories out there, right

0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:05.280
<v Speaker 4>That's and that's a question I get is like, how

0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:06.359
<v Speaker 4>many stories.

0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:06.560
<v Speaker 3>Could there be?

0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:07.680
<v Speaker 1>That was my next question.

0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:11.080
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, criminal stories related to hunters, anglers, and we we

0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:15.399
<v Speaker 4>we do expand it out a little bit to you know, hikers, campers,

0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:18.960
<v Speaker 4>people who are using public land in some way. And

0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:22.400
<v Speaker 4>there's there's tons, I mean there's tons just this yeah,

0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:25.000
<v Speaker 4>just this last year, and this is another story we're

0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:28.320
<v Speaker 4>looking into There are these two kids who were camping

0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:32.320
<v Speaker 4>out in Arizona on some some public land that were

0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:36.040
<v Speaker 4>found murdered and it was totally random. They couldn't figure

0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:39.359
<v Speaker 4>out who did it. They just arrested a suspect just

0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:42.880
<v Speaker 4>like a month ago. And so, you know, unfortunately, these

0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:46.600
<v Speaker 4>stories are are fairly common. And you know, we're going

0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:50.679
<v Speaker 4>back to the earliest story from this season is nineteen

0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:54.040
<v Speaker 4>seventy five, so you know, if if you take that

0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:57.239
<v Speaker 4>expanse of time, there's gonna be plenty of stories like this.

0:19:57.800 --> 0:19:58.159
<v Speaker 6>Wow.

0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:00.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, that really was gonna be by the story

0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:03.000
<v Speaker 2>is you know, how common is this?

0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:04.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:08.239
<v Speaker 4>I mean it's it's you know, unfortunately common enough. And

0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:12.520
<v Speaker 4>once these first episodes started to come out, we're getting

0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:14.840
<v Speaker 4>tons of emails like, hey, you should cover this story,

0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:18.919
<v Speaker 4>Hey cover that story. Even we're getting detectives, you know,

0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:21.920
<v Speaker 4>who say, I have this cold case from the nineties,

0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:24.280
<v Speaker 4>we haven't figured out who did it. I'd love to,

0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:25.800
<v Speaker 4>you know, talk to you so you can kind of

0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:28.680
<v Speaker 4>spread the word. And a lot of times with those

0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:32.879
<v Speaker 4>cold cases, people are are more than happy to talk,

0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:34.560
<v Speaker 4>you know, because they want to get the word out.

0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:37.439
<v Speaker 3>They want to help R and I have I have

0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:38.000
<v Speaker 3>heard back.

0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:41.240
<v Speaker 4>I can't really provide a ton of detail right now,

0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:44.680
<v Speaker 4>but I have heard back from a few of the

0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:48.600
<v Speaker 4>people involved in episodes that have come out who have said,

0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:52.280
<v Speaker 4>this is getting people talking where we think we're making

0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:55.480
<v Speaker 4>some progress here just because of the you know, getting

0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:57.719
<v Speaker 4>the word out and and a lot of times, you know,

0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:02.639
<v Speaker 4>if if law enforcements talking to me, it probably means

0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:05.600
<v Speaker 4>they're really what they really need our tips coming in

0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:09.439
<v Speaker 4>from someone, someone who knows something, and so that's what

0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:12.480
<v Speaker 4>they're relying on. And you know, I hope, I hope

0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:14.280
<v Speaker 4>some of these episodes can generate some.

0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:18.600
<v Speaker 1>Of ye helps solve the case.

0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:20.679
<v Speaker 4>I would love that because I mean, one of the

0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:23.520
<v Speaker 4>things that it's really important to me with with these

0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:27.000
<v Speaker 4>episodes is I want to talk to the families of

0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:31.440
<v Speaker 4>the victims, because I want to know about the victim, right.

0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:34.080
<v Speaker 4>I don't want the victim to just be like, you know,

0:21:34.680 --> 0:21:36.680
<v Speaker 4>it's not just like a puzzle to solve. This is

0:21:36.720 --> 0:21:38.879
<v Speaker 4>a real person and they have a real family and

0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:42.840
<v Speaker 4>it impacted them deeply. So I try whenever I can

0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:45.720
<v Speaker 4>to talk to the families of the victims and so

0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:51.040
<v Speaker 4>to have, you know, potentially this case be solved. Having

0:21:51.080 --> 0:21:53.680
<v Speaker 4>spoken with them and then having told me, like how

0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:57.360
<v Speaker 4>difficult it is, especially for these cold cases, how difficult

0:21:57.400 --> 0:21:59.000
<v Speaker 4>it is to not know what happened.

0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:01.760
<v Speaker 3>That would just, I mean, be so cool, so cool.

0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:04.520
<v Speaker 2>I guess a lot of these true, like the big

0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:07.560
<v Speaker 2>like Crime Junkie is one of the biggest podcasts in

0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:07.880
<v Speaker 2>the world.

0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:08.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, am I right?

0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:11.240
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I think it's. I think I just saw Spotify's

0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:13.760
<v Speaker 4>list for this year. I think it was four fourth

0:22:13.760 --> 0:22:14.920
<v Speaker 4>on Spotify.

0:22:14.600 --> 0:22:20.120
<v Speaker 2>So in that podcast has helped solve a lot of cases,

0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:20.680
<v Speaker 2>Is that right?

0:22:20.800 --> 0:22:22.480
<v Speaker 3>I think so, yeah, I've heard that.

0:22:22.560 --> 0:22:27.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so you know, I guess it would get a

0:22:28.000 --> 0:22:29.000
<v Speaker 2>lot of people excited.

0:22:29.040 --> 0:22:29.360
<v Speaker 1>It would.

0:22:29.560 --> 0:22:35.399
<v Speaker 2>There's probably some criminals shaking in their boots.

0:22:35.400 --> 0:22:36.520
<v Speaker 3>Sellers is on the case.

0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:40.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, you better better watch it, man, you better

0:22:40.160 --> 0:22:40.480
<v Speaker 1>watch it.

0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:44.240
<v Speaker 4>I don't know about that, but you know it's it's

0:22:44.280 --> 0:22:46.960
<v Speaker 4>it's fun to have that potentially that real world, real

0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:47.679
<v Speaker 4>world impact.

0:22:47.920 --> 0:22:51.000
<v Speaker 2>So, okay, this is this is what I wanted to

0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:56.280
<v Speaker 2>talk to you about. When you're when you're dealing with families. Yeah,

0:22:56.320 --> 0:23:01.800
<v Speaker 2>like now Bear Grease, we really was just happenstance. We

0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:04.960
<v Speaker 2>just did our first murder, which kind of overlaps into

0:23:05.000 --> 0:23:05.720
<v Speaker 2>your lane.

0:23:06.359 --> 0:23:08.080
<v Speaker 1>Lake Pickle was like, Clay, why are you.

0:23:08.119 --> 0:23:09.800
<v Speaker 2>Doing this to Jordan And I was like doing what

0:23:10.080 --> 0:23:13.520
<v Speaker 2>And I was like, well, it really was just completely

0:23:13.840 --> 0:23:18.120
<v Speaker 2>happenstance that we did. Uh we did a murder mystery

0:23:18.119 --> 0:23:21.639
<v Speaker 2>in Bear Greasewitch. Great job by the way, Yeah, thank you,

0:23:21.880 --> 0:23:24.280
<v Speaker 2>and it just kind of the story just kind of

0:23:24.280 --> 0:23:29.520
<v Speaker 2>fell on my lap. But I'm I'm more common to

0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:34.720
<v Speaker 2>us is doing like an outlaw podcast, which involves criminals

0:23:34.840 --> 0:23:37.680
<v Speaker 2>or potential criminals, maybe guys that were never even caught.

0:23:38.240 --> 0:23:42.440
<v Speaker 2>And I'm always like tiptoeing around and really conscious of

0:23:43.680 --> 0:23:47.680
<v Speaker 2>people's families, like living Like if I'm talking about someone,

0:23:48.320 --> 0:23:53.639
<v Speaker 2>I'm thinking about their living family, and I feel like

0:23:53.680 --> 0:23:56.160
<v Speaker 2>that would be pretty sensitive with what you're doing.

0:23:56.160 --> 0:23:57.560
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, what, what do you think about? How

0:23:57.560 --> 0:23:58.399
<v Speaker 1>do you how do you handle that?

0:23:59.040 --> 0:23:59.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:03.640
<v Speaker 4>I mean that's that's one of the most difficult things

0:24:03.720 --> 0:24:08.639
<v Speaker 4>to navigate, right, is Like you want you want the

0:24:08.680 --> 0:24:12.480
<v Speaker 4>family of a victim to talk to you, in part

0:24:12.560 --> 0:24:17.440
<v Speaker 4>selfishly because it's going to make the episode so much

0:24:17.520 --> 0:24:21.560
<v Speaker 4>more you know, interesting for the audience, right, but you

0:24:21.600 --> 0:24:26.080
<v Speaker 4>also have to recognize, like you're asking them to relive

0:24:26.600 --> 0:24:29.760
<v Speaker 4>what's probably the worst thing that's ever happened to them, right,

0:24:29.840 --> 0:24:34.200
<v Speaker 4>Like I I've talked to I talked to a guy

0:24:34.240 --> 0:24:39.159
<v Speaker 4>who found his father dead in the woods, and you know,

0:24:39.160 --> 0:24:41.359
<v Speaker 4>I had I had to ask him what was that?

0:24:41.560 --> 0:24:42.920
<v Speaker 3>Like, like, tell me what happened?

0:24:43.760 --> 0:24:48.000
<v Speaker 4>And in doing that, I'm asking him to relive this

0:24:48.440 --> 0:24:51.760
<v Speaker 4>horrible thing, right that he probably tries not to think about, right,

0:24:51.840 --> 0:24:53.359
<v Speaker 4>and I'm asking him try to think about it.

0:24:53.400 --> 0:24:55.720
<v Speaker 3>So I never take that for granted.

0:24:56.760 --> 0:25:01.200
<v Speaker 4>They do it usually because they're they're wanting the case

0:25:01.240 --> 0:25:04.359
<v Speaker 4>to be solved, and they recognize that by talking to me,

0:25:04.400 --> 0:25:12.560
<v Speaker 4>by answering my questions that could help the case be solved.

0:25:14.600 --> 0:25:17.040
<v Speaker 4>When it gets more difficult from my perspective, is when

0:25:17.240 --> 0:25:20.080
<v Speaker 4>the case is closed. Because we don't just cover cold

0:25:20.119 --> 0:25:22.520
<v Speaker 4>cases on this podcast, some of the cases have been

0:25:22.560 --> 0:25:23.560
<v Speaker 4>officially closed.

0:25:23.840 --> 0:25:26.000
<v Speaker 3>I would say, there's there are still questions.

0:25:26.240 --> 0:25:29.480
<v Speaker 4>With each story that we cover, there's still unanswered questions,

0:25:30.040 --> 0:25:32.439
<v Speaker 4>but some of the cases have been officially closed, and

0:25:32.480 --> 0:25:35.399
<v Speaker 4>so the family feels like, you know, I don't I

0:25:35.400 --> 0:25:36.280
<v Speaker 4>don't want to talk about this.

0:25:36.320 --> 0:25:39.680
<v Speaker 3>I want to move on. And you know what.

0:25:39.600 --> 0:25:43.080
<v Speaker 4>I hope is that they'll still talk to me, because,

0:25:43.400 --> 0:25:45.960
<v Speaker 4>like I said, I want the victim to be like

0:25:46.840 --> 0:25:50.520
<v Speaker 4>a fully fleshed out human. And the best person to

0:25:51.440 --> 0:25:53.400
<v Speaker 4>make that happen is the family, because they're the ones

0:25:53.400 --> 0:25:54.600
<v Speaker 4>who can tell me, you know what, what.

0:25:54.560 --> 0:25:55.040
<v Speaker 3>Was this caser?

0:25:55.080 --> 0:25:56.520
<v Speaker 1>I had some people not want to talk to you.

0:25:56.600 --> 0:25:57.800
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, oh yeah?

0:25:58.040 --> 0:25:59.760
<v Speaker 1>Does it? Does it shut the story down?

0:26:03.040 --> 0:26:03.679
<v Speaker 3>There was?

0:26:05.640 --> 0:26:08.880
<v Speaker 4>There have been a couple where I've wanted to cover

0:26:09.560 --> 0:26:12.480
<v Speaker 4>and just have hit brick wall after brickwall. Sometimes it's

0:26:12.560 --> 0:26:16.600
<v Speaker 4>law enforcement, sometimes it's families. You know, a lot of

0:26:16.640 --> 0:26:19.720
<v Speaker 4>times people just don't respond. They don't they don't even

0:26:19.760 --> 0:26:21.240
<v Speaker 4>say like, I don't want to talk about this.

0:26:21.359 --> 0:26:23.840
<v Speaker 1>I just just can't get any traction there.

0:26:23.960 --> 0:26:29.560
<v Speaker 4>There have been a couple where someone has responded and

0:26:29.600 --> 0:26:32.960
<v Speaker 4>we go back and forth a bit and then they decide, actually,

0:26:33.000 --> 0:26:35.600
<v Speaker 4>I don't want to do this, yeah, for for whatever reason.

0:26:35.640 --> 0:26:37.560
<v Speaker 4>Sometimes it's do you feel a little bit.

0:26:39.160 --> 0:26:42.159
<v Speaker 2>A little bit like I don't want to use the

0:26:42.200 --> 0:26:43.680
<v Speaker 2>word icky, but that's the way.

0:26:43.920 --> 0:26:45.000
<v Speaker 3>That's probably the best word.

0:26:45.960 --> 0:26:50.520
<v Speaker 2>When you're kind of like digging in somebody and they go, hey, no.

0:26:50.920 --> 0:26:54.800
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, because I have before well and and this is

0:26:54.960 --> 0:26:58.960
<v Speaker 4>this is the reputation that especially true crime podcasts get

0:26:59.480 --> 0:27:03.840
<v Speaker 4>right where kind of capitalizing on people's grief. Right, we're

0:27:04.240 --> 0:27:06.960
<v Speaker 4>taking advantage of this horrible thing that happened to people,

0:27:08.840 --> 0:27:12.119
<v Speaker 4>and I'm I'm very sensitive to that, which is why

0:27:12.320 --> 0:27:16.520
<v Speaker 4>I always want to be as respectful as possible to

0:27:16.640 --> 0:27:20.919
<v Speaker 4>everyone involved, whether that's the families of the victims, but

0:27:21.000 --> 0:27:24.879
<v Speaker 4>also the families of the perpetrators of the people who

0:27:25.000 --> 0:27:27.679
<v Speaker 4>have done this horrible thing. Their families, as long as

0:27:27.680 --> 0:27:31.479
<v Speaker 4>they weren't complicit, their families are are also victims in

0:27:31.520 --> 0:27:34.719
<v Speaker 4>a sense, yes, And so you know, it's it's a

0:27:34.760 --> 0:27:40.200
<v Speaker 4>tricky thing to navigate. I the after an episode comes out.

0:27:40.560 --> 0:27:43.920
<v Speaker 4>The thing I don't read comments, I don't I don't

0:27:43.920 --> 0:27:47.000
<v Speaker 4>do that. But the thing that I'm that worries me

0:27:47.080 --> 0:27:50.320
<v Speaker 4>the most is that text from the family member they've

0:27:50.320 --> 0:27:54.720
<v Speaker 4>listened to the episode so far, everything's it's all been positive.

0:27:54.800 --> 0:27:58.600
<v Speaker 4>I've just gotten this is great, we really appreciate it,

0:27:58.640 --> 0:28:01.280
<v Speaker 4>thanks so much, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah,

0:28:01.280 --> 0:28:03.720
<v Speaker 4>but that's what really that's what would really bother me,

0:28:03.800 --> 0:28:07.560
<v Speaker 4>I think is if a family member texted me and said,

0:28:07.320 --> 0:28:11.480
<v Speaker 4>you messed up. You didn't, you know, describe this correctly,

0:28:13.280 --> 0:28:16.480
<v Speaker 4>you made it worse. Anything like that, that would you know,

0:28:16.520 --> 0:28:17.119
<v Speaker 4>that would really.

0:28:16.960 --> 0:28:20.280
<v Speaker 2>Bother me, man, I completely identify with what you're saying.

0:28:20.800 --> 0:28:23.000
<v Speaker 2>I told someone just this last week, well with this

0:28:23.040 --> 0:28:27.800
<v Speaker 2>Bucky Garrison story. In this case, I was I wasn't

0:28:27.800 --> 0:28:31.000
<v Speaker 2>able to contact any of the family on this one.

0:28:31.200 --> 0:28:33.840
<v Speaker 2>I just it just like every time I went that way,

0:28:33.920 --> 0:28:36.400
<v Speaker 2>it just kind of got shut down. And it wasn't

0:28:36.440 --> 0:28:38.400
<v Speaker 2>by the family, It just I couldn't find them.

0:28:38.480 --> 0:28:42.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's tough, and yeah, but.

0:28:42.280 --> 0:28:47.480
<v Speaker 2>I was very interested in Oklahoma Department Wildlife, like their

0:28:47.520 --> 0:28:51.520
<v Speaker 2>perspective on it, and so I was kind of like

0:28:52.000 --> 0:28:55.880
<v Speaker 2>waiting for that text message of like, hey, thanks, you know,

0:28:56.600 --> 0:28:57.640
<v Speaker 2>so I understand.

0:28:57.720 --> 0:29:00.400
<v Speaker 1>I understand that completely, and I wasn't going to say

0:29:02.480 --> 0:29:03.440
<v Speaker 1>the victims.

0:29:03.760 --> 0:29:07.400
<v Speaker 2>It's really easy to talk about a bad guy. But really,

0:29:07.480 --> 0:29:09.880
<v Speaker 2>if you understand humans, you understand that a lot of

0:29:09.920 --> 0:29:14.160
<v Speaker 2>bad guys come from families that aren't all bad guys,

0:29:15.000 --> 0:29:18.440
<v Speaker 2>you know. And so you're kind of bringing up something

0:29:18.920 --> 0:29:22.520
<v Speaker 2>from the past happened a long time ago, that's in

0:29:23.440 --> 0:29:26.360
<v Speaker 2>this family's rear view mirror. They're probably trying to get

0:29:26.400 --> 0:29:29.960
<v Speaker 2>away from it exactly. And that's one that's harder. It's

0:29:30.000 --> 0:29:33.880
<v Speaker 2>easier to justify doing a story because this person was

0:29:33.880 --> 0:29:36.960
<v Speaker 2>the bad guy and in a sense, you know, you

0:29:37.040 --> 0:29:39.880
<v Speaker 2>kind of feel justified and like, well, they should have

0:29:39.880 --> 0:29:42.040
<v Speaker 2>never done this to begin with, so we can tell

0:29:42.080 --> 0:29:45.520
<v Speaker 2>this story again. But I have felt like in some

0:29:45.560 --> 0:29:48.600
<v Speaker 2>of the Outlaw stuff we've done, been very conscious of

0:29:48.640 --> 0:29:51.920
<v Speaker 2>the Outlaws family, yep, you know, just because it's like

0:29:53.400 --> 0:29:54.479
<v Speaker 2>they wanted to forget.

0:29:54.640 --> 0:29:56.840
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, their friends or family are going to listen to

0:29:56.920 --> 0:29:58.680
<v Speaker 4>the podcast, you know, and some of them maybe they

0:29:58.680 --> 0:30:01.560
<v Speaker 4>don't they didn't know, and they're gonna text them say, hey,

0:30:01.640 --> 0:30:03.680
<v Speaker 4>I didn't know. You know, your so and so was

0:30:03.720 --> 0:30:07.480
<v Speaker 4>a such and such and it's gonna it's gonna cause problems.

0:30:07.800 --> 0:30:08.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:30:08.720 --> 0:30:12.640
<v Speaker 4>Like the the one episode that came out, well it's

0:30:12.640 --> 0:30:16.800
<v Speaker 4>coming out this week as of this recording, but it's

0:30:16.840 --> 0:30:20.160
<v Speaker 4>it's about a guy, a hunter in Georgia who was

0:30:20.240 --> 0:30:26.280
<v Speaker 4>found stabbed eighteen times and they ruled it a suicide

0:30:26.440 --> 0:30:28.880
<v Speaker 4>and there's all kinds of reasons for that in the

0:30:28.920 --> 0:30:31.360
<v Speaker 4>podcast to you can you can listen to that. But

0:30:31.680 --> 0:30:35.040
<v Speaker 4>his hunting buddy was you know, suspect number one, right,

0:30:35.080 --> 0:30:37.760
<v Speaker 4>because they traveled somewhere else to hunt. So these two

0:30:37.760 --> 0:30:40.560
<v Speaker 4>guys were the only two that knew each other. It

0:30:40.640 --> 0:30:43.800
<v Speaker 4>was kind of in this hard to get to back place.

0:30:44.920 --> 0:30:48.000
<v Speaker 4>It was dark, it was after dark, and so this

0:30:48.000 --> 0:30:51.680
<v Speaker 4>this guy's hunting buddy was suspect number one. And this

0:30:51.720 --> 0:30:53.520
<v Speaker 4>is one where you know, we went back and forth

0:30:53.560 --> 0:30:56.960
<v Speaker 4>for a while and he seemed willing to talk about it.

0:30:57.000 --> 0:30:59.080
<v Speaker 4>But then I think the more he thought about it,

0:30:59.800 --> 0:31:02.600
<v Speaker 4>he told me he's just like I. As I've been

0:31:02.600 --> 0:31:06.000
<v Speaker 4>thinking about it, it's brought back so many horrible memories

0:31:06.440 --> 0:31:07.760
<v Speaker 4>that I just don't want to I don't want to

0:31:07.760 --> 0:31:09.080
<v Speaker 4>talk about it, you know, I want to put it

0:31:09.080 --> 0:31:10.000
<v Speaker 4>in my rearview mirror.

0:31:10.080 --> 0:31:12.280
<v Speaker 3>I don't want to think about it anymore.

0:31:13.920 --> 0:31:17.920
<v Speaker 4>And so that you know that that's kind of difficult

0:31:17.960 --> 0:31:20.160
<v Speaker 4>for me as someone who is putting out this story,

0:31:20.160 --> 0:31:22.000
<v Speaker 4>who you know, people are going to start talking.

0:31:21.720 --> 0:31:23.480
<v Speaker 3>About this guy again.

0:31:23.640 --> 0:31:25.480
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I don't want that to blow back on him

0:31:25.800 --> 0:31:29.120
<v Speaker 4>because he didn't do it. It's it's pretty clear that

0:31:29.200 --> 0:31:32.640
<v Speaker 4>he didn't do it, and so you know. But but again,

0:31:32.680 --> 0:31:35.320
<v Speaker 4>I think there's a there's still a public interest in

0:31:35.800 --> 0:31:41.520
<v Speaker 4>people knowing about these stories. But they're not without you know,

0:31:41.640 --> 0:31:44.360
<v Speaker 4>it's not without some qualms on my part at.

0:31:44.200 --> 0:31:49.160
<v Speaker 2>Times, Barry have any questions for him? You be thinking

0:31:49.160 --> 0:31:53.960
<v Speaker 2>about it, I've got another you be thinking you're up next,

0:31:55.240 --> 0:31:56.800
<v Speaker 2>what's the typical scenario?

0:31:57.800 --> 0:31:59.680
<v Speaker 1>Like?

0:31:58.080 --> 0:32:02.520
<v Speaker 2>Uh, like, if with all that you've done, and you know,

0:32:03.680 --> 0:32:06.800
<v Speaker 2>five years from now, after you've done you know, seventy

0:32:06.840 --> 0:32:10.240
<v Speaker 2>of these, maybe you would have a better sense. But like,

0:32:11.400 --> 0:32:13.880
<v Speaker 2>what happens with hunters and anglers? Are they are they

0:32:14.000 --> 0:32:16.960
<v Speaker 2>usually or is there any trend? Are they usually killed

0:32:16.960 --> 0:32:19.320
<v Speaker 2>by a stranger? Are they usually killed by their buddy?

0:32:19.400 --> 0:32:22.480
<v Speaker 2>Did they usually die on accident? What's the trend?

0:32:22.640 --> 0:32:22.920
<v Speaker 3>Well?

0:32:23.160 --> 0:32:25.040
<v Speaker 4>I mean, I think accident is going to be the

0:32:25.120 --> 0:32:27.720
<v Speaker 4>number one thing. That's not We're not really going to

0:32:27.760 --> 0:32:32.840
<v Speaker 4>cover unless there's some other kind of circumstance involved. A

0:32:32.880 --> 0:32:36.280
<v Speaker 4>lot of those though, I will say the we covered

0:32:36.280 --> 0:32:39.960
<v Speaker 4>a story of a hunter named Aaron Hedges who went

0:32:40.040 --> 0:32:43.600
<v Speaker 4>hunting with two of his buddies out in Montana, and

0:32:43.680 --> 0:32:46.640
<v Speaker 4>it appears like that was probably an accident. But I

0:32:46.680 --> 0:32:50.200
<v Speaker 4>say probably because there's still some kind of questions. But

0:32:50.200 --> 0:32:52.000
<v Speaker 4>I would say accident has to be. It's got to

0:32:52.000 --> 0:32:54.520
<v Speaker 4>be number one, right, like whether the gun or whatever.

0:32:57.120 --> 0:33:02.120
<v Speaker 4>I think there are a lot where I don't know

0:33:02.120 --> 0:33:04.600
<v Speaker 4>about a lot, but but it seems to come up

0:33:05.080 --> 0:33:08.480
<v Speaker 4>where it's an accidental shooting. Right, It's not a malicious

0:33:08.720 --> 0:33:12.800
<v Speaker 4>like murder, but the person who pulled the trigger doesn't

0:33:13.120 --> 0:33:16.960
<v Speaker 4>runs away, doesn't come forward, right, So that's kind of

0:33:17.000 --> 0:33:20.440
<v Speaker 4>a crime on top of a crime. He doesn't mean

0:33:20.520 --> 0:33:23.080
<v Speaker 4>to kill it, like the one the first when you

0:33:23.200 --> 0:33:25.440
<v Speaker 4>go back in March with the turkey hunter that got

0:33:25.440 --> 0:33:27.959
<v Speaker 4>shot right at daylight and they just never knew who

0:33:28.040 --> 0:33:29.880
<v Speaker 4>did it right, right, And that's what you know, the

0:33:29.880 --> 0:33:34.480
<v Speaker 4>family thinks, probably an accident. I would imagine that's law

0:33:34.560 --> 0:33:38.880
<v Speaker 4>enforcement's theory that they didn't talk to me. So I

0:33:38.880 --> 0:33:42.840
<v Speaker 4>think that's probably the most common thing. Uh, you know,

0:33:43.280 --> 0:33:48.320
<v Speaker 4>I think I'm sure there are cases where it's malicious

0:33:48.400 --> 0:33:51.640
<v Speaker 4>and it's a hunting buddy, I think not super often.

0:33:52.800 --> 0:33:54.960
<v Speaker 4>I think it's you know a lot of times it's

0:33:55.000 --> 0:33:59.160
<v Speaker 4>that accidental shooting that turns into something more because they

0:33:59.160 --> 0:34:01.680
<v Speaker 4>don't come forward, they don't confess, they don't they run away.

0:34:01.680 --> 0:34:04.560
<v Speaker 2>When was that original it's the one you ran back

0:34:04.560 --> 0:34:08.479
<v Speaker 2>in March, the first episode. Yeah, what was the time

0:34:08.560 --> 0:34:09.640
<v Speaker 2>frame that guy got killed?

0:34:11.000 --> 0:34:14.239
<v Speaker 3>I want to say it was two thousand and four

0:34:14.360 --> 0:34:15.680
<v Speaker 3>to early two thousand.

0:34:15.400 --> 0:34:18.440
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, very likely the person that shot that guy

0:34:18.520 --> 0:34:23.200
<v Speaker 2>still love it's possible, yeah, I mean yeah, assuming that Yeah, yep.

0:34:23.120 --> 0:34:25.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's it's very possible they're still alive.

0:34:26.680 --> 0:34:28.120
<v Speaker 1>That's that's and it's.

0:34:27.960 --> 0:34:30.640
<v Speaker 4>I you know, I can't imagine living with that because

0:34:30.680 --> 0:34:32.359
<v Speaker 4>and that was the other thing is that there is

0:34:32.400 --> 0:34:36.960
<v Speaker 4>some evidence that the person walked up to the body

0:34:36.960 --> 0:34:38.719
<v Speaker 4>of the victim. So it's not like they did it

0:34:38.760 --> 0:34:40.640
<v Speaker 4>and just didn't know and have been living their life,

0:34:40.960 --> 0:34:44.880
<v Speaker 4>you know, not knowing. I can't imagine knowing that and

0:34:45.000 --> 0:34:46.520
<v Speaker 4>just living living your life.

0:34:46.960 --> 0:34:48.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:34:48.560 --> 0:34:54.239
<v Speaker 2>Wow, Yeah, that that's what's strange about these some of

0:34:54.280 --> 0:34:56.960
<v Speaker 2>these stories is to think that the person that did

0:34:56.960 --> 0:34:59.239
<v Speaker 2>it is still just out there.

0:34:59.400 --> 0:34:59.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:35:00.200 --> 0:35:03.520
<v Speaker 4>Well, and I mean that was really the big one

0:35:03.520 --> 0:35:07.640
<v Speaker 4>of the big questions with the Paul Hutchinson case episode

0:35:07.640 --> 0:35:09.000
<v Speaker 4>two and three of this year.

0:35:11.360 --> 0:35:12.000
<v Speaker 3>A guy.

0:35:14.000 --> 0:35:17.360
<v Speaker 4>He killed a fifteen year old girl up in Montana

0:35:17.400 --> 0:35:21.120
<v Speaker 4>around the Bosman area. He raped her, he killed her,

0:35:21.680 --> 0:35:24.400
<v Speaker 4>and then just went on and lived a life in

0:35:24.440 --> 0:35:27.920
<v Speaker 4>that area. He became a BLM biologist. He had a

0:35:28.000 --> 0:35:31.160
<v Speaker 4>wife and two kids just living in that same area.

0:35:32.920 --> 0:35:38.440
<v Speaker 4>And he was eventually found out and right after law

0:35:38.520 --> 0:35:41.920
<v Speaker 4>enforcement interviewed him the first time, he went and committed suicide,

0:35:42.120 --> 0:35:44.400
<v Speaker 4>which for a lot of people is like the greatest

0:35:44.560 --> 0:35:46.960
<v Speaker 4>there was DNA evidence, but the greatest evidence of his

0:35:47.000 --> 0:35:52.120
<v Speaker 4>guilt is that, right, And so obviously you know this

0:35:52.320 --> 0:35:57.520
<v Speaker 4>is something he's lived with for twenty twenty years, right,

0:35:57.560 --> 0:36:01.680
<v Speaker 4>twenty thirty years, and the moment he's like there's any

0:36:01.760 --> 0:36:04.280
<v Speaker 4>kind of accountability, he's.

0:36:04.120 --> 0:36:09.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so, how did you get the video for that?

0:36:09.280 --> 0:36:13.120
<v Speaker 2>Because in this episode, and I think I texted you

0:36:13.160 --> 0:36:17.160
<v Speaker 2>when I watched it, I was on like pins and needles.

0:36:18.920 --> 0:36:23.000
<v Speaker 2>Much of the episode is an actual interview that the police.

0:36:22.760 --> 0:36:24.000
<v Speaker 1>Did with this guy.

0:36:24.280 --> 0:36:28.120
<v Speaker 2>Yep, Yeah, how did you legally get access to that?

0:36:29.160 --> 0:36:32.279
<v Speaker 4>So that was and I have to kind of give

0:36:32.320 --> 0:36:36.520
<v Speaker 4>credit where credit is due. Forty eight hours covered this story, okay,

0:36:36.640 --> 0:36:40.120
<v Speaker 4>and they got that video. They had it in that episode,

0:36:40.160 --> 0:36:43.359
<v Speaker 4>So that's how I knew like it was available in

0:36:43.360 --> 0:36:43.759
<v Speaker 4>some way.

0:36:44.120 --> 0:36:44.359
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:36:44.400 --> 0:36:49.480
<v Speaker 4>Now, it still took me six months because it required

0:36:49.520 --> 0:36:53.160
<v Speaker 4>me to submit a request, but then that request had

0:36:53.160 --> 0:36:54.680
<v Speaker 4>to go before a judge.

0:36:54.800 --> 0:36:57.400
<v Speaker 3>Who then had to approve it. Really mm hmmm.

0:36:57.640 --> 0:37:00.840
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and that wasn't even the hard thing to get,

0:37:01.360 --> 0:37:03.000
<v Speaker 4>but yeah, that had to go before a judge, so

0:37:03.080 --> 0:37:05.040
<v Speaker 4>I was kind of just in line waiting.

0:37:05.320 --> 0:37:07.200
<v Speaker 3>The clerk who helped me was very nice.

0:37:07.360 --> 0:37:10.520
<v Speaker 4>She always answered my emails because I was constantly like, hey,

0:37:10.520 --> 0:37:14.720
<v Speaker 4>when is this you know, but yeah, it was just waiting.

0:37:14.800 --> 0:37:16.960
<v Speaker 4>So so the judge approved it, signed off on it,

0:37:17.680 --> 0:37:19.600
<v Speaker 4>the clerk, you know, I asked for a few other

0:37:19.600 --> 0:37:23.400
<v Speaker 4>things alongside with that, put it all together and mailed

0:37:23.400 --> 0:37:24.880
<v Speaker 4>it to me. I got a flash drive in the

0:37:24.880 --> 0:37:27.600
<v Speaker 4>mail with the video on it. Yeah, but yeah, that's

0:37:27.640 --> 0:37:32.200
<v Speaker 4>actually that's another kind of big priority for me with

0:37:32.480 --> 0:37:36.680
<v Speaker 4>with these episodes is getting stuff like that, and we

0:37:36.719 --> 0:37:41.480
<v Speaker 4>actually have law enforcement interviews for that episode, and then

0:37:41.520 --> 0:37:45.520
<v Speaker 4>these final three episodes all feature in some way law

0:37:45.560 --> 0:37:49.080
<v Speaker 4>enforcement interviews that we got through public records requests.

0:37:49.200 --> 0:37:53.719
<v Speaker 2>Public records request so that was evidence that was used

0:37:53.719 --> 0:37:54.560
<v Speaker 2>in the court of law.

0:37:54.960 --> 0:37:57.680
<v Speaker 3>It would have been if he did true, yeah, he

0:37:57.840 --> 0:37:58.360
<v Speaker 3>was gone.

0:37:58.640 --> 0:38:01.560
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, but because the case is closed, that we have

0:38:01.640 --> 0:38:04.840
<v Speaker 4>access to that, so you have to it. Yeah, So

0:38:04.920 --> 0:38:08.359
<v Speaker 4>that's one one kind of benefit. It's kind of like

0:38:08.600 --> 0:38:10.560
<v Speaker 4>the way I think of it is if it's an

0:38:10.560 --> 0:38:13.480
<v Speaker 4>open case, if it's a cold case, you can a

0:38:13.480 --> 0:38:16.080
<v Speaker 4>lot of times get like family and friends will talk

0:38:16.120 --> 0:38:18.839
<v Speaker 4>to you and tell you what happens. Sometimes law enforcement will,

0:38:19.160 --> 0:38:21.440
<v Speaker 4>but you don't have access to any of the documents,

0:38:21.600 --> 0:38:24.600
<v Speaker 4>any videos, any audio recordings because the case is still open,

0:38:25.080 --> 0:38:28.200
<v Speaker 4>and so you can't submit a record's request for a

0:38:28.239 --> 0:38:30.520
<v Speaker 4>case that's open because they can't share it when the

0:38:30.520 --> 0:38:34.239
<v Speaker 4>case is closed. Family oftentimes, you know, like we said,

0:38:34.280 --> 0:38:36.360
<v Speaker 4>doesn't want to talk. But you can get access to

0:38:36.440 --> 0:38:39.960
<v Speaker 4>all the case file, you know, everything that law enforcement

0:38:40.000 --> 0:38:42.239
<v Speaker 4>had a lot of times, if you're patient, you can

0:38:42.320 --> 0:38:42.880
<v Speaker 4>you can get it.

0:38:43.040 --> 0:38:43.200
<v Speaker 3>Man.

0:38:43.280 --> 0:38:45.279
<v Speaker 1>That's that's some strong journalism.

0:38:46.080 --> 0:38:49.520
<v Speaker 3>Well it's been a learning process. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't

0:38:49.560 --> 0:38:51.080
<v Speaker 3>realize how.

0:38:51.560 --> 0:38:55.279
<v Speaker 4>Time consuming it was going to be because you know,

0:38:55.600 --> 0:38:59.040
<v Speaker 4>a lot of times these public records clerks, it's like

0:38:59.360 --> 0:39:02.040
<v Speaker 4>get in line, you know, and you're in the back

0:39:02.040 --> 0:39:03.479
<v Speaker 4>of the line, and so you just have to wait.

0:39:04.719 --> 0:39:08.000
<v Speaker 4>In Park County, Montana, I actually had to open I

0:39:08.000 --> 0:39:11.399
<v Speaker 4>don't know if it's technically a lawsuit, but I had

0:39:11.440 --> 0:39:14.799
<v Speaker 4>to like pay money to open a case with the

0:39:14.880 --> 0:39:19.080
<v Speaker 4>court in order to get some incident reports from that

0:39:19.200 --> 0:39:22.440
<v Speaker 4>Aaron Hedges case. And so you know, it's just a

0:39:22.480 --> 0:39:24.800
<v Speaker 4>and the other thing is a different process for each state.

0:39:25.360 --> 0:39:27.800
<v Speaker 4>Some states are very quick, some states are very slow.

0:39:28.239 --> 0:39:32.160
<v Speaker 4>So wow, wild, Yeah, it's been what's your question? I

0:39:32.239 --> 0:39:34.760
<v Speaker 4>got two questions. They're connected.

0:39:35.440 --> 0:39:37.920
<v Speaker 5>How many of the of your you've done eight episodes

0:39:37.960 --> 0:39:40.480
<v Speaker 5>so far, how many of them have been like last

0:39:40.520 --> 0:39:41.120
<v Speaker 5>ten years.

0:39:43.080 --> 0:39:50.040
<v Speaker 4>Let's see, I think all of them have been. So

0:39:50.080 --> 0:39:52.279
<v Speaker 4>there are two that are one from one is from

0:39:52.360 --> 0:39:55.200
<v Speaker 4>nineteen seventy five and the other is from nineteen seventy seven.

0:39:56.120 --> 0:39:57.680
<v Speaker 3>All of the rest of them.

0:39:58.200 --> 0:40:00.920
<v Speaker 4>Have been within the last ten to twenty years, I

0:40:00.920 --> 0:40:04.080
<v Speaker 4>would say, Okay, so most of them are more recent.

0:40:04.520 --> 0:40:08.760
<v Speaker 4>The older ones, those have their own challenges, right, because

0:40:08.800 --> 0:40:12.759
<v Speaker 4>sometimes people have died who like the investigators, you know,

0:40:13.040 --> 0:40:16.000
<v Speaker 4>some of the family, and so that can be challenging

0:40:16.040 --> 0:40:18.160
<v Speaker 4>in and of itself. But yeah, most of them I

0:40:18.160 --> 0:40:19.040
<v Speaker 4>think are more recent.

0:40:19.600 --> 0:40:22.640
<v Speaker 5>So as you're like looking, you know, like trying to

0:40:22.680 --> 0:40:28.000
<v Speaker 5>find cases, have you noticed any sort of like increase

0:40:28.400 --> 0:40:31.680
<v Speaker 5>in events like this happening and the like recently, Because

0:40:31.719 --> 0:40:36.160
<v Speaker 5>I know, like around here this summer, two people got

0:40:36.280 --> 0:40:40.359
<v Speaker 5>killed in like a state park. Yeah, yeah, that's right,

0:40:40.440 --> 0:40:42.240
<v Speaker 5>And that was just like unfathomable.

0:40:42.360 --> 0:40:44.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah to me, that was the story to happen.

0:40:45.160 --> 0:40:47.319
<v Speaker 5>Like whenever that happened, we were actually on our way

0:40:47.360 --> 0:40:49.920
<v Speaker 5>to the state park. Really yeah, my uncle called me

0:40:49.920 --> 0:40:53.400
<v Speaker 5>and said turn around and and and there's been a

0:40:53.400 --> 0:40:56.719
<v Speaker 5>few other events like that recently that like I don't know,

0:40:56.719 --> 0:40:58.640
<v Speaker 5>maybe I've just never been paying attention, but it has

0:40:58.680 --> 0:41:01.879
<v Speaker 5>seemed like stuff like this has been happening more.

0:41:02.600 --> 0:41:05.920
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I don't know, and that's a great question. I

0:41:05.920 --> 0:41:11.239
<v Speaker 4>don't know that I've noticed a particular like over time increase.

0:41:12.960 --> 0:41:18.399
<v Speaker 4>But it makes sense that you know, as I guess

0:41:18.440 --> 0:41:20.640
<v Speaker 4>this depends on where you live in the area of

0:41:20.680 --> 0:41:22.600
<v Speaker 4>the country you live in, but you know, some areas

0:41:22.600 --> 0:41:25.040
<v Speaker 4>you're seeing a lot more people out in the woods,

0:41:25.080 --> 0:41:27.279
<v Speaker 4>and so it would make sense if there's more people

0:41:27.360 --> 0:41:31.000
<v Speaker 4>out there, more opportunities for stuff to happen, and so

0:41:31.040 --> 0:41:33.759
<v Speaker 4>in that sense, it's probably somewhat of a numbers game.

0:41:35.480 --> 0:41:38.400
<v Speaker 4>But like you know, people are people, like people have

0:41:38.520 --> 0:41:41.080
<v Speaker 4>been doing horrible things to each other for since people

0:41:41.120 --> 0:41:44.319
<v Speaker 4>have been around, and so I don't think there would

0:41:44.320 --> 0:41:47.879
<v Speaker 4>necessarily be an uptick for like any other reason than

0:41:48.040 --> 0:41:50.279
<v Speaker 4>just more people out there in some areas.

0:41:50.640 --> 0:41:51.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:41:51.080 --> 0:41:53.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, I mean you think about the population of

0:41:53.120 --> 0:41:57.200
<v Speaker 2>the US is now like three hundred and thirty plus million, yep.

0:41:57.440 --> 0:42:00.200
<v Speaker 2>And I mean even back in the nineteen eighties, I

0:42:00.239 --> 0:42:03.920
<v Speaker 2>mean it was like two hundred and fifty million or

0:42:03.960 --> 0:42:06.280
<v Speaker 2>two hundred and four so I mean like one hundred million,

0:42:06.560 --> 0:42:10.759
<v Speaker 2>almost one hundred million more people in America since like

0:42:10.880 --> 0:42:13.360
<v Speaker 2>I was born, And I mean that's that's just a

0:42:13.440 --> 0:42:16.239
<v Speaker 2>lot of a lot of potential conflict. Yeah, so I

0:42:16.280 --> 0:42:20.400
<v Speaker 2>would it feels like our murder maybe not murder per capita,

0:42:20.440 --> 0:42:23.439
<v Speaker 2>but there's more murders than there would have been.

0:42:23.320 --> 0:42:24.359
<v Speaker 3>I would imagine. Yep.

0:42:24.800 --> 0:42:28.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I think so. I think so, and more people.

0:42:28.200 --> 0:42:33.520
<v Speaker 2>More people are using, recreating on public lands and doing everything.

0:42:33.840 --> 0:42:35.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:42:35.920 --> 0:42:36.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:42:36.200 --> 0:42:38.759
<v Speaker 2>You know, my dad always used to tell me when

0:42:38.800 --> 0:42:42.040
<v Speaker 2>I was a little kid, hunting by myself or he

0:42:42.040 --> 0:42:44.400
<v Speaker 2>would drop me off and I would be scared of

0:42:44.440 --> 0:42:44.839
<v Speaker 2>the dark.

0:42:45.040 --> 0:42:47.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and he would always be.

0:42:47.239 --> 0:42:49.359
<v Speaker 2>Son, there's nothing out here to be scared of, which

0:42:49.360 --> 0:42:50.280
<v Speaker 2>you should be afraid.

0:42:50.080 --> 0:42:50.680
<v Speaker 3>Of as people.

0:42:50.880 --> 0:42:54.839
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, you know, I like for a while I kicked

0:42:54.840 --> 0:42:57.080
<v Speaker 4>around a kind of a tagline for blood Trails that

0:42:57.160 --> 0:43:00.000
<v Speaker 4>was something along those lines. Yeah, it's like the people

0:43:00.120 --> 0:43:01.840
<v Speaker 4>are the most dangerous whatever.

0:43:01.920 --> 0:43:02.319
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

0:43:02.560 --> 0:43:06.120
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think I think that's a realistic idea that

0:43:06.160 --> 0:43:08.680
<v Speaker 2>most people have when they're in the woods. Yeah, I mean,

0:43:08.960 --> 0:43:11.400
<v Speaker 2>most people aren't afraid of I mean unless you're in

0:43:11.440 --> 0:43:14.040
<v Speaker 2>like a hide did and see grizzly area or something.

0:43:14.160 --> 0:43:18.160
<v Speaker 2>That's really about the only thing that you should legitimately

0:43:19.000 --> 0:43:22.400
<v Speaker 2>be really cautious of. I would say almost in all

0:43:22.440 --> 0:43:25.320
<v Speaker 2>of North America. I mean, other than rattlesnakes and stuff.

0:43:25.320 --> 0:43:28.680
<v Speaker 2>But people, Yeah, people would be what you would.

0:43:29.480 --> 0:43:29.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:43:29.719 --> 0:43:32.040
<v Speaker 5>When I'm out in the woods, like you know, camping

0:43:32.239 --> 0:43:36.480
<v Speaker 5>by myself, it's usually usually what I'm worried about. Like

0:43:36.520 --> 0:43:39.440
<v Speaker 5>when I hear something walking out there, I'm usually not

0:43:39.480 --> 0:43:41.800
<v Speaker 5>too worried about it being like a bear or something.

0:43:41.960 --> 0:43:45.319
<v Speaker 5>It's usually the thought that's running through my mind is like,

0:43:46.080 --> 0:43:46.840
<v Speaker 5>is that a person?

0:43:47.200 --> 0:43:49.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:43:50.400 --> 0:43:52.400
<v Speaker 1>Well so bear grease.

0:43:52.760 --> 0:43:53.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:43:53.040 --> 0:43:58.080
<v Speaker 2>We did, I think our first murder mystery this week

0:43:59.280 --> 0:44:03.759
<v Speaker 2>on this this story titled Unusual that the Unusual death

0:44:03.760 --> 0:44:08.480
<v Speaker 2>of Melvin Bucky Garrison, and it was pretty it was interesting,

0:44:08.520 --> 0:44:10.279
<v Speaker 2>and I kind of told how it happened. But I

0:44:10.360 --> 0:44:16.240
<v Speaker 2>was in Okema, Oklahoma actually with eating lunch with Evan

0:44:16.360 --> 0:44:21.759
<v Speaker 2>Felker of the Turnpike Troubadors and his good buddy Andrew Stubbs.

0:44:21.440 --> 0:44:24.560
<v Speaker 1>Who was on the episode in the cold open, and.

0:44:24.520 --> 0:44:28.920
<v Speaker 2>We're setting around the Shonees Buffet there in Okema, which

0:44:28.960 --> 0:44:30.839
<v Speaker 2>if he hadn't been there, you should check it out.

0:44:30.920 --> 0:44:36.400
<v Speaker 2>Pretty classy place to get the lowdown, and I believe

0:44:36.440 --> 0:44:40.800
<v Speaker 2>Andrew Stubbs was eating his dessert of peaches and cottage

0:44:40.880 --> 0:44:44.759
<v Speaker 2>cheese when he said to me, we're talking about some

0:44:44.800 --> 0:44:47.960
<v Speaker 2>bear grease outlaw stories. And he was like, now, I

0:44:48.000 --> 0:44:50.480
<v Speaker 2>heard about an old outlaw over here that killed the

0:44:50.560 --> 0:44:51.080
<v Speaker 2>game warden.

0:44:51.600 --> 0:44:54.040
<v Speaker 1>That was just what he said. And I was like,

0:44:54.040 --> 0:44:54.839
<v Speaker 1>what do you mean?

0:44:55.400 --> 0:44:57.480
<v Speaker 2>And he begins to tell me the story that he

0:44:57.560 --> 0:45:01.799
<v Speaker 2>had heard his whole life about melon Bucky Garrison. And

0:45:02.280 --> 0:45:06.439
<v Speaker 2>I was intrigued by the story, and immediately that very

0:45:06.520 --> 0:45:12.400
<v Speaker 2>day contacted the captain of the First Division of Wildlife

0:45:12.480 --> 0:45:15.840
<v Speaker 2>and Oklahoma, this guy named Hank Jinx, and I said,

0:45:16.120 --> 0:45:18.920
<v Speaker 2>does the name Bucky Garrison mean anything to you? And

0:45:18.960 --> 0:45:22.319
<v Speaker 2>he was like, oh yeah, he knew it immediately and

0:45:22.400 --> 0:45:24.919
<v Speaker 2>had told me, Hey, Clay, I actually was talking about

0:45:24.960 --> 0:45:29.480
<v Speaker 2>Bucky Garrison, like very recently. And that's kind of how

0:45:29.480 --> 0:45:32.320
<v Speaker 2>it all That's kind of how it all started. And

0:45:34.480 --> 0:45:37.759
<v Speaker 2>so we set up and this is one of these

0:45:37.760 --> 0:45:40.920
<v Speaker 2>stories that happened so long ago it was hard to find.

0:45:41.120 --> 0:45:43.920
<v Speaker 2>It was almost it was difficult to do it because

0:45:45.239 --> 0:45:47.560
<v Speaker 2>most of the people that were actually involved.

0:45:47.200 --> 0:45:49.720
<v Speaker 3>In it are not around anymore.

0:45:51.520 --> 0:45:54.600
<v Speaker 2>But it was also a unique story for me because

0:45:55.760 --> 0:46:03.360
<v Speaker 2>a little bit touchy because the suspect, yep is to

0:46:03.440 --> 0:46:08.719
<v Speaker 2>the court of law, is completely innocent, and so so

0:46:08.840 --> 0:46:11.399
<v Speaker 2>much of the story was about this guy that they

0:46:11.560 --> 0:46:15.279
<v Speaker 2>think did it, and that's kind of tricky too.

0:46:16.000 --> 0:46:16.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:46:16.200 --> 0:46:19.400
<v Speaker 4>Well, I wanted to ask you, because this is something

0:46:19.840 --> 0:46:23.759
<v Speaker 4>I think a lot about, is what what was the

0:46:23.760 --> 0:46:27.680
<v Speaker 4>thought process behind deciding to not say his name in

0:46:27.760 --> 0:46:28.840
<v Speaker 4>the episode.

0:46:29.160 --> 0:46:32.439
<v Speaker 1>The God's family still lives right there?

0:46:32.520 --> 0:46:32.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:46:33.520 --> 0:46:38.919
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, and it just is hearsay. I mean,

0:46:39.040 --> 0:46:47.400
<v Speaker 2>like I kept, I kept like searching for concrete evidence

0:46:47.880 --> 0:46:51.240
<v Speaker 2>that this guy had done it, and there's just none

0:46:51.800 --> 0:46:58.120
<v Speaker 2>other than everybody over there says that they heard this

0:46:58.239 --> 0:47:02.719
<v Speaker 2>guy second hand it basically admit to it.

0:47:03.200 --> 0:47:05.520
<v Speaker 4>Right, Yeah, you referenced that kind of towards the end,

0:47:06.400 --> 0:47:07.960
<v Speaker 4>that he admitted to it.

0:47:08.080 --> 0:47:09.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, but I mean, he I don't know if he

0:47:09.960 --> 0:47:12.480
<v Speaker 2>did or not. Right, So you're Jordan, you're taking words

0:47:12.520 --> 0:47:14.279
<v Speaker 2>out of my mouth. I didn't say he admitted it.

0:47:14.360 --> 0:47:18.280
<v Speaker 2>I said I was told by people through the grape

0:47:18.360 --> 0:47:22.920
<v Speaker 2>vine that had believed that he admitted it.

0:47:23.760 --> 0:47:25.720
<v Speaker 1>But I just feel I just have enough.

0:47:25.920 --> 0:47:30.440
<v Speaker 2>Maybe it's it's ill faded hope, but I just feel

0:47:30.480 --> 0:47:35.400
<v Speaker 2>like if he had actually admitted it that he would

0:47:35.400 --> 0:47:37.360
<v Speaker 2>have they would have got him.

0:47:37.520 --> 0:47:39.160
<v Speaker 1>I mean they you know.

0:47:39.680 --> 0:47:43.480
<v Speaker 4>It depends on the because the one of the episodes

0:47:43.480 --> 0:47:49.560
<v Speaker 4>in this season is a hunter who went missing and

0:47:50.520 --> 0:47:53.040
<v Speaker 4>the game Wardens is up in Maine. Uh. The game

0:47:53.040 --> 0:47:56.400
<v Speaker 4>wardens basically tracked down the two guys who they thought

0:47:56.440 --> 0:47:59.160
<v Speaker 4>did it, and they just couldn't quite get enough evidence

0:47:59.239 --> 0:48:03.680
<v Speaker 4>to put them away. They they basically kidnapped him. He

0:48:03.760 --> 0:48:07.560
<v Speaker 4>was he shot a deer, They stole his deer, killed him,

0:48:07.800 --> 0:48:12.160
<v Speaker 4>and then you know, left his body somewhere. And one

0:48:12.200 --> 0:48:17.440
<v Speaker 4>of the guys allegedly told basically a drinking buddy that

0:48:17.560 --> 0:48:19.680
<v Speaker 4>he'd done it, and he explained everything, and this guy

0:48:19.719 --> 0:48:22.880
<v Speaker 4>went to the police. The problem was the police were like,

0:48:23.360 --> 0:48:27.799
<v Speaker 4>this guy is not a credible person, right, So we

0:48:27.840 --> 0:48:29.680
<v Speaker 4>could try to put this guy on the stand and

0:48:29.760 --> 0:48:31.959
<v Speaker 4>say and he could say, yeah, you know, he told

0:48:32.000 --> 0:48:33.759
<v Speaker 4>me he did it. Here's what he said. But no,

0:48:33.920 --> 0:48:37.160
<v Speaker 4>you know, defense is gonna like tear him apart. So

0:48:37.560 --> 0:48:39.960
<v Speaker 4>they're like, we need a more credible person. So I

0:48:39.960 --> 0:48:44.080
<v Speaker 4>don't know who this guy supposedly told in the Bucky

0:48:44.120 --> 0:48:46.399
<v Speaker 4>Garrison story, but it could have been just someone who

0:48:47.560 --> 0:48:49.799
<v Speaker 4>you know, no one would take seriously and that could

0:48:49.800 --> 0:48:50.520
<v Speaker 4>have been the problem.

0:48:51.480 --> 0:48:55.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, bear you listened to it, what was your general impression?

0:48:56.200 --> 0:48:59.160
<v Speaker 1>Okay, story, what stood out to you it was?

0:48:59.239 --> 0:49:01.600
<v Speaker 3>What was what do you think? Well?

0:49:02.280 --> 0:49:04.879
<v Speaker 1>I think it was pretty.

0:49:06.360 --> 0:49:06.840
<v Speaker 3>Well Okay.

0:49:06.880 --> 0:49:12.439
<v Speaker 5>I think that the number of people that like new

0:49:13.280 --> 0:49:19.120
<v Speaker 5>both you know, the perpetrator and the and Bucky, I

0:49:19.120 --> 0:49:22.399
<v Speaker 5>think that speaks a lot to it. Like I feel

0:49:22.440 --> 0:49:24.759
<v Speaker 5>like there's a lot of power in just like the

0:49:24.880 --> 0:49:29.040
<v Speaker 5>human gut, you know, like people just like knowing, knowing

0:49:29.080 --> 0:49:32.319
<v Speaker 5>if something has happened or not, and like kind of

0:49:32.440 --> 0:49:37.719
<v Speaker 5>connecting dots that you know, maybe necessarily like yeah, logical.

0:49:38.760 --> 0:49:40.279
<v Speaker 5>I think there's a lot of power in that. But

0:49:41.239 --> 0:49:44.479
<v Speaker 5>it is really hard to say because I also think

0:49:44.600 --> 0:49:48.440
<v Speaker 5>a lot of times like as as like the group

0:49:48.520 --> 0:49:50.680
<v Speaker 5>starts to believe it, more and more people start to

0:49:50.680 --> 0:49:55.360
<v Speaker 5>believe it, yes, and then eventually it just becomes fact. Yeah,

0:49:55.400 --> 0:49:58.760
<v Speaker 5>And you know, like it's it's hard in this situation

0:49:58.920 --> 0:50:02.480
<v Speaker 5>to really determine and like what side of that the

0:50:03.200 --> 0:50:06.160
<v Speaker 5>people are on, Like did did the people does everyone

0:50:06.160 --> 0:50:09.000
<v Speaker 5>who believes it? Do they just believe it because you know,

0:50:09.000 --> 0:50:11.440
<v Speaker 5>they were told that or do they believe it because

0:50:11.440 --> 0:50:16.799
<v Speaker 5>they actually knew knew the situation and everything around it,

0:50:17.480 --> 0:50:19.320
<v Speaker 5>and can kind of put two and two together.

0:50:19.960 --> 0:50:24.040
<v Speaker 6>So it's it's I'm kind of conflicted. I really can't.

0:50:24.600 --> 0:50:26.480
<v Speaker 6>I can't. I can't say I can't really.

0:50:27.000 --> 0:50:31.640
<v Speaker 2>Well, if you had to today, if you were the

0:50:31.760 --> 0:50:35.719
<v Speaker 2>decider and you we had to go off what you

0:50:35.840 --> 0:50:38.840
<v Speaker 2>thought from the amount of information you have, did the

0:50:38.960 --> 0:50:39.960
<v Speaker 2>suspect do it?

0:50:40.120 --> 0:50:42.600
<v Speaker 3>Or did Bucky de a natural death?

0:50:43.600 --> 0:50:45.920
<v Speaker 5>I don't think I would say I don't think that

0:50:46.000 --> 0:50:47.240
<v Speaker 5>he died a natural death.

0:50:48.200 --> 0:50:52.800
<v Speaker 1>But what was what was the His partner's name was Bullet,

0:50:53.160 --> 0:50:53.960
<v Speaker 1>Bullet Burns.

0:50:54.120 --> 0:50:55.320
<v Speaker 3>Great, yeah, great.

0:50:55.160 --> 0:50:55.680
<v Speaker 1>Great name.

0:50:55.719 --> 0:50:58.319
<v Speaker 3>Bullet did it? No? No, no, but Bullet said, it's

0:50:58.320 --> 0:50:58.839
<v Speaker 3>a great name.

0:50:58.880 --> 0:51:04.399
<v Speaker 2>By the way, Bullet and Bucky, Ye write me a ticket, guys.

0:51:04.480 --> 0:51:06.200
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I just want to be around y'all for.

0:51:06.160 --> 0:51:06.680
<v Speaker 3>A little while.

0:51:07.520 --> 0:51:11.720
<v Speaker 5>But Bullet his his theory was that like two people

0:51:11.719 --> 0:51:12.520
<v Speaker 5>did it in a boat?

0:51:12.840 --> 0:51:13.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Was it?

0:51:13.760 --> 0:51:14.280
<v Speaker 1>I couldn't.

0:51:14.440 --> 0:51:18.160
<v Speaker 5>I wasn't quite tracking if he thought that the what

0:51:18.239 --> 0:51:23.600
<v Speaker 5>everyone else the guy that everyone else thought, okay, he did, okay, Okay,

0:51:24.080 --> 0:51:27.279
<v Speaker 5>Well I would I would, I would have to.

0:51:27.239 --> 0:51:28.280
<v Speaker 1>Say that I would.

0:51:28.320 --> 0:51:29.560
<v Speaker 3>I would probably believe.

0:51:29.320 --> 0:51:31.080
<v Speaker 1>That you believe what Bullet thought.

0:51:31.480 --> 0:51:36.239
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, just because like the waiters being stripped off and

0:51:36.320 --> 0:51:40.600
<v Speaker 5>the bullet, like the actual bullet one shot and then

0:51:40.719 --> 0:51:43.560
<v Speaker 5>the shotgun being gone. I mean it's just like there's

0:51:43.640 --> 0:51:46.640
<v Speaker 5>no way, I mean, like, how else could that have happened?

0:51:54.600 --> 0:51:59.920
<v Speaker 3>The waiters thing is very weird. Were they like chest waiters.

0:52:00.160 --> 0:52:01.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean it just would have been there was

0:52:01.800 --> 0:52:04.680
<v Speaker 2>no detail. Again, we don't have the case file. The

0:52:04.680 --> 0:52:07.640
<v Speaker 2>case file's gone, but you just assume it would have

0:52:07.680 --> 0:52:12.600
<v Speaker 2>been a really primitive pair of waiters from the nineteen seventies.

0:52:12.360 --> 0:52:13.880
<v Speaker 3>And then so so bullets.

0:52:13.960 --> 0:52:18.040
<v Speaker 4>Theory was that he was kind of dragged along by

0:52:18.040 --> 0:52:22.879
<v Speaker 4>a boat yep, and that's how the waiters got stripped off. Yeah,

0:52:23.440 --> 0:52:25.799
<v Speaker 4>I mean I was trying to figure out how could

0:52:25.800 --> 0:52:28.719
<v Speaker 4>that have possibly happened? That's the I mean, that's as

0:52:28.719 --> 0:52:30.800
<v Speaker 4>good a theory as I couldn't come up with anything.

0:52:30.840 --> 0:52:32.200
<v Speaker 3>So, yeah, I don't know how else.

0:52:32.480 --> 0:52:38.120
<v Speaker 2>I thought maybe some waterfowl guys might might give gives

0:52:38.400 --> 0:52:41.480
<v Speaker 2>just like a scenario. And I actually saw one comment

0:52:41.560 --> 0:52:47.160
<v Speaker 2>today on social media that said he thinks it's possible

0:52:47.640 --> 0:52:50.799
<v Speaker 2>that he got water in his waiters and was just

0:52:50.840 --> 0:52:52.000
<v Speaker 2>trying to take him off.

0:52:52.440 --> 0:52:54.879
<v Speaker 6>Oh yeah, it's a good like you would you would just.

0:52:54.840 --> 0:52:58.520
<v Speaker 2>Be trying to shed yourself of him. Yep, Hey Dad,

0:52:59.120 --> 0:53:01.640
<v Speaker 2>how you drowned doing that? And you know water that

0:53:01.800 --> 0:53:05.960
<v Speaker 2>deep and you're twenty seven years old and capable and strong. Yeap,

0:53:06.120 --> 0:53:09.360
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't make sense. But his whole point was I

0:53:09.400 --> 0:53:10.680
<v Speaker 2>think he was trying to take.

0:53:10.520 --> 0:53:11.400
<v Speaker 1>His waiters off.

0:53:12.640 --> 0:53:16.160
<v Speaker 2>But it's still it doesn't make sense of why you would, Yeah,

0:53:16.200 --> 0:53:24.320
<v Speaker 2>why you would? Well, what do you I mean, Jordan,

0:53:24.440 --> 0:53:28.840
<v Speaker 2>what kind of given the same scenario, Yeah, what do

0:53:28.920 --> 0:53:29.280
<v Speaker 2>you think?

0:53:29.480 --> 0:53:33.520
<v Speaker 4>I I just don't think there's enough that I know

0:53:34.400 --> 0:53:40.600
<v Speaker 4>to know, like these details from how they found him,

0:53:40.680 --> 0:53:43.080
<v Speaker 4>It's really hard to come up with a scenario that

0:53:43.160 --> 0:53:46.560
<v Speaker 4>accounts for all these details, like whether he was killed

0:53:46.560 --> 0:53:49.239
<v Speaker 4>by someone else or whether it was an accident. It's

0:53:49.280 --> 0:53:51.920
<v Speaker 4>harder to come up with a scenario if it was

0:53:51.960 --> 0:53:52.520
<v Speaker 4>an accident.

0:53:52.880 --> 0:53:55.320
<v Speaker 3>Is there's the dirt under his nails? How that happen?

0:53:56.000 --> 0:54:00.279
<v Speaker 3>There's the why did he shoot one shot from his derringer? Right?

0:54:00.960 --> 0:54:04.240
<v Speaker 4>So it seems to me, and so I definitely agree

0:54:04.239 --> 0:54:08.680
<v Speaker 4>with Bear that like something happened, probably not an accident,

0:54:09.040 --> 0:54:11.840
<v Speaker 4>but I don't know why without any kind of other details.

0:54:11.840 --> 0:54:12.839
<v Speaker 3>Like, I mean, one thing I was.

0:54:12.760 --> 0:54:18.360
<v Speaker 4>Thinking, was I assume they looked at this the suspects alibi,

0:54:18.520 --> 0:54:20.240
<v Speaker 4>like did you have an alibi? Did you have anyone

0:54:20.239 --> 0:54:22.520
<v Speaker 4>else who could vouch for his whereabouts? And we just

0:54:22.560 --> 0:54:23.120
<v Speaker 4>don't know that.

0:54:23.320 --> 0:54:25.200
<v Speaker 3>Ye, And that's like a really basic kind of that's

0:54:25.239 --> 0:54:26.719
<v Speaker 3>the very first thing you look.

0:54:26.760 --> 0:54:29.920
<v Speaker 4>Another thing I thought was I think you said to

0:54:30.000 --> 0:54:33.120
<v Speaker 4>get out there. It was like one road basically, So

0:54:33.200 --> 0:54:36.480
<v Speaker 4>were there other tire marks or was it just so

0:54:37.080 --> 0:54:39.319
<v Speaker 4>was it used so much that wouldn't have been an

0:54:39.360 --> 0:54:42.920
<v Speaker 4>issue or like not something you could figure out. So

0:54:43.040 --> 0:54:44.880
<v Speaker 4>just stuff like that. There's so much that I just

0:54:46.000 --> 0:54:47.680
<v Speaker 4>you know, it's impossible to say.

0:54:47.960 --> 0:54:48.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:54:48.239 --> 0:54:52.200
<v Speaker 2>And that's that's where this as a as a story

0:54:52.680 --> 0:54:56.600
<v Speaker 2>was you know, weak in a way because we just

0:54:56.640 --> 0:54:58.480
<v Speaker 2>didn't have all the data.

0:54:58.680 --> 0:54:59.919
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:55:01.320 --> 0:55:03.960
<v Speaker 2>When I first started getting into the story, and what

0:55:04.120 --> 0:55:08.920
<v Speaker 2>became most interesting to me was how confident everyone was

0:55:09.000 --> 0:55:10.640
<v Speaker 2>in the story.

0:55:10.760 --> 0:55:11.319
<v Speaker 3>I mean, ed.

0:55:11.320 --> 0:55:16.879
<v Speaker 2>Rodebush and now I've got to he's a competent man,

0:55:17.440 --> 0:55:19.239
<v Speaker 2>like had a really good career with the game and

0:55:19.320 --> 0:55:23.799
<v Speaker 2>fish and it was like a legitimate guy and you

0:55:23.840 --> 0:55:27.320
<v Speaker 2>know here he came ten years later worked with Bullet

0:55:27.320 --> 0:55:30.719
<v Speaker 2>Burns for a long period of time, and Bullet would

0:55:30.719 --> 0:55:34.040
<v Speaker 2>have been first hand, you know, within arm's reach of

0:55:34.080 --> 0:55:39.719
<v Speaker 2>this deal, and bullet Burns was completely convinced of who

0:55:39.760 --> 0:55:42.880
<v Speaker 2>did it and how it happened. And I mean, you

0:55:42.920 --> 0:55:44.480
<v Speaker 2>get the sense that bullet Burns.

0:55:44.239 --> 0:55:45.319
<v Speaker 3>Was a pretty legit guy.

0:55:46.160 --> 0:55:48.239
<v Speaker 1>So you kind of just have to go, man.

0:55:48.320 --> 0:55:51.319
<v Speaker 2>They going back to what Bear said, there must have

0:55:51.400 --> 0:55:55.480
<v Speaker 2>been more than what we had, than the evidence that we.

0:55:55.640 --> 0:56:00.480
<v Speaker 4>Have, you would think, Because another thing I thought is like,

0:56:02.600 --> 0:56:05.719
<v Speaker 4>were there rumors that this guy killed anyone else? That's

0:56:05.960 --> 0:56:08.640
<v Speaker 4>another question I had because usually it's you know, if

0:56:08.920 --> 0:56:11.319
<v Speaker 4>you do something like that, get away with it, like

0:56:11.440 --> 0:56:13.120
<v Speaker 4>it's either not the first time or it's not the

0:56:13.200 --> 0:56:17.759
<v Speaker 4>last time. But another thing is is the gentleman you

0:56:17.840 --> 0:56:22.440
<v Speaker 4>interviewed who was Bullet's partner, said, I mean he stopped

0:56:22.440 --> 0:56:23.520
<v Speaker 4>this guy thirty.

0:56:23.239 --> 0:56:24.680
<v Speaker 3>Times over the course of his career.

0:56:24.840 --> 0:56:29.360
<v Speaker 4>Yes, and according to his theory, that's what Bucky was doing.

0:56:29.760 --> 0:56:32.520
<v Speaker 3>He was stopping him. It was a wildlife enforcement thing.

0:56:33.840 --> 0:56:38.280
<v Speaker 4>So why why would this guy kill a game warden

0:56:38.600 --> 0:56:42.480
<v Speaker 4>because he was caught poaching when he'd been caught poaching before,

0:56:43.000 --> 0:56:45.719
<v Speaker 4>he was caught poaching after. It just doesn't seem like

0:56:45.880 --> 0:56:51.160
<v Speaker 4>a response that's like consistent with how he behaved for

0:56:51.239 --> 0:56:52.880
<v Speaker 4>the rest of his life.

0:56:53.080 --> 0:56:53.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:56:54.000 --> 0:56:56.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I've had the same thought.

0:56:56.760 --> 0:57:02.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like in in and I asked ed about his

0:57:03.640 --> 0:57:06.759
<v Speaker 2>response to the guy. I said, so, the first time

0:57:06.800 --> 0:57:09.560
<v Speaker 2>you met this guy, what did you think? And he

0:57:09.680 --> 0:57:13.799
<v Speaker 2>said I thought His answer was very straightforward. He said,

0:57:13.880 --> 0:57:16.080
<v Speaker 2>I was looking at his chest six inch circle on

0:57:16.120 --> 0:57:18.040
<v Speaker 2>his chest and saying I was going to put all

0:57:18.080 --> 0:57:19.040
<v Speaker 2>six of them right there.

0:57:19.120 --> 0:57:20.400
<v Speaker 1>It was going to be him and not me.

0:57:21.400 --> 0:57:25.840
<v Speaker 2>I don't think he said that lightly, like he's not frivolous.

0:57:26.280 --> 0:57:29.800
<v Speaker 2>And this guy Ed was just, I mean, just like

0:57:29.840 --> 0:57:33.360
<v Speaker 2>a veteran, well respected officer. I mean I don't know

0:57:33.400 --> 0:57:35.600
<v Speaker 2>all the details of his career, but I mean, like,

0:57:35.880 --> 0:57:39.040
<v Speaker 2>you know, a good guy.

0:57:39.320 --> 0:57:40.280
<v Speaker 1>I don't think he said that.

0:57:40.320 --> 0:57:42.480
<v Speaker 2>I don't think he would say that about anybody else

0:57:42.520 --> 0:57:47.160
<v Speaker 2>in his career that he dealt with. But I also

0:57:47.320 --> 0:57:51.240
<v Speaker 2>know that if I tell you, Jordan, the guy that's

0:57:51.240 --> 0:57:55.160
<v Speaker 2>about to walk in this door is a murderer. I

0:57:55.240 --> 0:57:57.480
<v Speaker 2>tell you that, whether it's true or not, that's going

0:57:57.560 --> 0:57:59.600
<v Speaker 2>to taint the way that you think about this guy

0:57:59.640 --> 0:58:01.760
<v Speaker 2>inner act with him, right.

0:58:01.600 --> 0:58:03.440
<v Speaker 4>And I'm going to tell my buddy later on I

0:58:03.480 --> 0:58:07.000
<v Speaker 4>met this guy, he was acting kind of weird. Right,

0:58:07.360 --> 0:58:09.120
<v Speaker 4>there were these things about him, the way he looked

0:58:09.120 --> 0:58:12.320
<v Speaker 4>at me, right, Yeah, And if you hadn't told me that,

0:58:12.560 --> 0:58:14.800
<v Speaker 4>I might not have thought that. So that we can

0:58:14.840 --> 0:58:18.160
<v Speaker 4>influence how we view other people by just being told

0:58:18.160 --> 0:58:18.919
<v Speaker 4>something about them.

0:58:19.200 --> 0:58:21.480
<v Speaker 3>Who knows whether it's true.

0:58:21.640 --> 0:58:27.520
<v Speaker 2>And my intent was not to defend this wildlife criminal

0:58:27.640 --> 0:58:30.400
<v Speaker 2>that we know is a convicted wildlife criminal.

0:58:33.000 --> 0:58:34.680
<v Speaker 1>My goal was not to defend him at all.

0:58:34.680 --> 0:58:37.960
<v Speaker 2>But I kept thinking about how easy it would be

0:58:38.080 --> 0:58:41.720
<v Speaker 2>to pin something on. And what I thought about was

0:58:41.760 --> 0:58:46.440
<v Speaker 2>back to my own hometown, Louis Delle and Charlie Edwards.

0:58:46.440 --> 0:58:49.920
<v Speaker 2>We did a series years ago called Genuine Outlaws about

0:58:49.960 --> 0:58:55.040
<v Speaker 2>these two guys from my hometown that were notorious.

0:58:54.400 --> 0:58:55.880
<v Speaker 3>Turkey outlaws yep.

0:58:56.760 --> 0:59:00.040
<v Speaker 2>And I just thought, what if there had been a

0:59:00.040 --> 0:59:04.200
<v Speaker 2>wildlife relates, a game warden murder or a dead game

0:59:04.240 --> 0:59:09.360
<v Speaker 2>warden in the epicenter of their turf. Right, you could

0:59:09.480 --> 0:59:12.920
<v Speaker 2>interviewed one hundred people and said who killed that game warden?

0:59:12.960 --> 0:59:17.080
<v Speaker 2>And they all probably would have blamed those guys for

0:59:17.200 --> 0:59:20.800
<v Speaker 2>no reason other than they were they had animosity towards

0:59:20.800 --> 0:59:25.560
<v Speaker 2>the game and fish. But I mean, you know, so,

0:59:25.720 --> 0:59:28.520
<v Speaker 2>I just I just recognize how easy it would be

0:59:29.080 --> 0:59:31.800
<v Speaker 2>if there was a murder in the epicenter of a

0:59:31.920 --> 0:59:33.840
<v Speaker 2>pretty known outlaws.

0:59:33.280 --> 0:59:35.920
<v Speaker 1>Region that you would just be like, well, I bet

0:59:35.960 --> 0:59:36.640
<v Speaker 1>that guy did it.

0:59:37.240 --> 0:59:38.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that would be easy.

0:59:38.400 --> 0:59:40.320
<v Speaker 4>Well, and like, on the kind of on the other

0:59:40.360 --> 0:59:44.120
<v Speaker 4>side of that argument, we've seen how these kind of

0:59:44.280 --> 0:59:50.000
<v Speaker 4>serial offenders, these serial poachers kind of end up moving

0:59:50.040 --> 0:59:55.600
<v Speaker 4>towards you know, crimes against humans, right, Like it indicates

0:59:55.680 --> 0:59:59.600
<v Speaker 4>something about their you know, whether they're antisocial, whether they

0:59:59.640 --> 1:00:02.240
<v Speaker 4>have some kind of you know, mental health issue, whether

1:00:02.680 --> 1:00:04.960
<v Speaker 4>you know they're just like I don't care. Obviously, they

1:00:04.960 --> 1:00:08.040
<v Speaker 4>don't care about the law, right And so then if

1:00:08.080 --> 1:00:11.439
<v Speaker 4>they're in a position where you know, they can get

1:00:11.480 --> 1:00:14.560
<v Speaker 4>some advantage by hurting someone else or killing someone else,

1:00:16.280 --> 1:00:20.760
<v Speaker 4>they're kind of used to breaking the law, right And

1:00:20.800 --> 1:00:23.520
<v Speaker 4>this is not like, this is not and this is

1:00:23.520 --> 1:00:26.240
<v Speaker 4>what I've heard from from game wardens, Like, this is

1:00:26.280 --> 1:00:29.360
<v Speaker 4>not the guy who goes out and like accidentally, you know,

1:00:29.480 --> 1:00:32.920
<v Speaker 4>shoots a deer on private land or even like knowingly

1:00:33.360 --> 1:00:37.920
<v Speaker 4>poaches at night one time. This is like this serial

1:00:38.440 --> 1:00:42.520
<v Speaker 4>wildlife criminal. A lot of times they end up doing

1:00:42.640 --> 1:00:46.680
<v Speaker 4>worse things, and so you know, it kind of fits

1:00:46.720 --> 1:00:50.520
<v Speaker 4>that pattern. This guy sounds like he doesn't care about

1:00:50.560 --> 1:00:51.680
<v Speaker 4>wildlife laws at all.

1:00:52.000 --> 1:00:53.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's established.

1:00:53.640 --> 1:00:57.400
<v Speaker 4>And so you know, maybe he had something going he

1:00:57.440 --> 1:01:01.320
<v Speaker 4>really cared about out there, you know, in in in

1:01:01.360 --> 1:01:03.919
<v Speaker 4>the woods, and this game warden was going to mess

1:01:03.920 --> 1:01:04.200
<v Speaker 4>it up.

1:01:05.520 --> 1:01:07.800
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, and something happened.

1:01:08.160 --> 1:01:10.240
<v Speaker 1>Would you have told the guy's name?

1:01:11.960 --> 1:01:12.280
<v Speaker 3>Uh?

1:01:12.360 --> 1:01:16.160
<v Speaker 4>No, I don't think so, I think And that's generally

1:01:16.200 --> 1:01:21.160
<v Speaker 4>been our policy on blood Trails is if they haven't

1:01:21.200 --> 1:01:26.480
<v Speaker 4>been accused, like officially accused, we don't say their real name.

1:01:26.760 --> 1:01:31.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that it, it's it.

1:01:32.080 --> 1:01:36.000
<v Speaker 4>There was one episode where we got into a potential suspect.

1:01:37.000 --> 1:01:41.640
<v Speaker 4>There was some evidence though, along with testimony from family.

1:01:43.320 --> 1:01:46.560
<v Speaker 4>So but but generally speaking, we don't use the real name.

1:01:46.640 --> 1:01:48.760
<v Speaker 4>And you know, for the same reasons that we talked about,

1:01:48.760 --> 1:01:53.280
<v Speaker 4>like the family still around. There's also you know, legal

1:01:54.720 --> 1:02:00.360
<v Speaker 4>potential legal issues, right if you defame someone, and you

1:02:00.400 --> 1:02:05.480
<v Speaker 4>know there are protections First Amendment, like we journalists have protections.

1:02:06.960 --> 1:02:09.720
<v Speaker 4>But it's like, do you do you need to get

1:02:10.160 --> 1:02:13.360
<v Speaker 4>into that potential liability to tell the story? And if

1:02:13.360 --> 1:02:15.880
<v Speaker 4>the answer is no, we could still tell it without

1:02:15.960 --> 1:02:18.919
<v Speaker 4>that and we could be faithful to the story. Then

1:02:19.240 --> 1:02:23.280
<v Speaker 4>it's kind of like we don't feel the need to yeah.

1:02:23.160 --> 1:02:26.960
<v Speaker 2>So now okay, but then why did you wonder why

1:02:27.000 --> 1:02:28.840
<v Speaker 2>I didn't tell the story tell a guy's name. I

1:02:28.840 --> 1:02:30.360
<v Speaker 2>thought maybe you were going to be like, oh, yeah,

1:02:30.440 --> 1:02:31.720
<v Speaker 2>I would have told the guy's name.

1:02:31.840 --> 1:02:35.040
<v Speaker 4>No, I just wanted to hear what your rationale was. Yeah, yeah,

1:02:35.120 --> 1:02:37.840
<v Speaker 4>because because I've thought the same thing many times, like

1:02:38.040 --> 1:02:39.480
<v Speaker 4>we do we say the real name?

1:02:39.520 --> 1:02:43.040
<v Speaker 3>Do we not? And so I just was curious what

1:02:43.080 --> 1:02:43.840
<v Speaker 3>you're thinking was.

1:02:43.920 --> 1:02:46.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, Well I just as I heard the story,

1:02:47.000 --> 1:02:50.240
<v Speaker 2>I was like, I mean, this guy was never convicted

1:02:50.280 --> 1:02:52.560
<v Speaker 2>of I mean, they never even tried him. Yeah, they

1:02:52.680 --> 1:02:55.880
<v Speaker 2>never even brought a conviction against him.

1:02:56.160 --> 1:02:58.880
<v Speaker 3>So it's just like the guy's well, the guy's innocent.

1:02:59.480 --> 1:03:04.320
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, And if you don't know, like if there's no

1:03:04.440 --> 1:03:10.160
<v Speaker 4>reason besides the kind of public rumor, then it's really

1:03:10.240 --> 1:03:14.120
<v Speaker 4>like we can't you know, like defame this guy and

1:03:14.240 --> 1:03:16.960
<v Speaker 4>potentially harm his family for no reason.

1:03:17.000 --> 1:03:20.240
<v Speaker 3>Basically, well, it was.

1:03:22.720 --> 1:03:27.320
<v Speaker 2>It was I wish I could be in that community

1:03:27.560 --> 1:03:33.240
<v Speaker 2>and understand, you know, like what all these people know

1:03:34.080 --> 1:03:38.040
<v Speaker 2>or think or think they know. But because there there's

1:03:38.080 --> 1:03:41.080
<v Speaker 2>got to be and then I know there was more

1:03:42.360 --> 1:03:44.560
<v Speaker 2>back in the day in terms of a criminal case.

1:03:46.280 --> 1:03:51.160
<v Speaker 2>You know, I think about the shotgun and again not

1:03:51.160 --> 1:03:55.680
<v Speaker 2>not trying to. I mean, the shotgun could have been

1:03:55.760 --> 1:03:57.720
<v Speaker 2>mashed down in the mud somehow and they just never

1:03:57.760 --> 1:03:59.960
<v Speaker 2>found it. I mean they said they drained the lake

1:04:00.200 --> 1:04:04.520
<v Speaker 2>and took metal detectors out there and stuff. But there's

1:04:04.560 --> 1:04:07.320
<v Speaker 2>a lot of big questions. But if the if the gun,

1:04:07.680 --> 1:04:11.760
<v Speaker 2>the gun ended up being the biggest thing that screamed

1:04:11.840 --> 1:04:16.200
<v Speaker 2>foul play. Yeah, you know, the missing shotgun that was

1:04:16.320 --> 1:04:17.560
<v Speaker 2>that was probably the biggest thing.

1:04:17.880 --> 1:04:18.080
<v Speaker 3>Yep.

1:04:18.600 --> 1:04:23.880
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I wondered if maybe so, why are we so

1:04:23.920 --> 1:04:27.120
<v Speaker 4>certain he had it in the first place, like, like

1:04:27.400 --> 1:04:30.000
<v Speaker 4>not just that he took it out with him, but

1:04:30.000 --> 1:04:32.000
<v Speaker 4>that he had it like in the truck.

1:04:32.080 --> 1:04:33.400
<v Speaker 3>Was it just always in the truck?

1:04:33.600 --> 1:04:36.160
<v Speaker 2>That was Again, this is one of these things that

1:04:36.280 --> 1:04:40.400
<v Speaker 2>just time has erased the details. But I think if

1:04:40.400 --> 1:04:44.400
<v Speaker 2>we had that case file, they would have been one

1:04:44.480 --> 1:04:47.000
<v Speaker 2>hundred percent certain that he had the gun.

1:04:47.360 --> 1:04:51.320
<v Speaker 1>And I think we couldn't say that because surely they

1:04:51.360 --> 1:04:51.880
<v Speaker 1>would have.

1:04:54.080 --> 1:04:57.320
<v Speaker 2>Gone to the family and been like, is Bucky shotgun

1:04:57.320 --> 1:05:00.160
<v Speaker 2>at the house and they're like, no, he had he

1:05:00.280 --> 1:05:03.680
<v Speaker 2>always carried it in his truck in the boardens, you know.

1:05:03.800 --> 1:05:06.320
<v Speaker 2>Hank Jinks was like, yeah, he would have carried it

1:05:06.600 --> 1:05:07.760
<v Speaker 2>always carried a shotgun.

1:05:07.880 --> 1:05:09.160
<v Speaker 1>They always carried a shotgun.

1:05:09.760 --> 1:05:13.120
<v Speaker 2>So I mean he had a shotgun, as I understand it,

1:05:13.120 --> 1:05:15.400
<v Speaker 2>I think we could say he had a shotgun before

1:05:15.440 --> 1:05:18.520
<v Speaker 2>the incident and the family and him and everybody.

1:05:18.600 --> 1:05:20.360
<v Speaker 3>The shotgun was gone after.

1:05:20.080 --> 1:05:23.200
<v Speaker 4>It because that because I did wonder if maybe someone

1:05:23.400 --> 1:05:27.480
<v Speaker 4>stole it from his truck, like between like as it

1:05:27.520 --> 1:05:30.240
<v Speaker 4>was just parked out there, if someone came along and

1:05:30.280 --> 1:05:32.840
<v Speaker 4>they just saw it and they took it from the truck.

1:05:32.840 --> 1:05:36.360
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean that would have been a major coincidence though, too,

1:05:36.400 --> 1:05:37.000
<v Speaker 2>youldn't it.

1:05:37.400 --> 1:05:41.440
<v Speaker 3>You know what? It would have It would have for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

1:05:41.840 --> 1:05:45.240
<v Speaker 4>But again it was like I think someone said this, like,

1:05:46.040 --> 1:05:49.240
<v Speaker 4>why would he have taken it in there if he

1:05:49.360 --> 1:05:55.400
<v Speaker 4>was just doing like enforcement stuff. Yeah, right, because like

1:05:55.480 --> 1:05:59.080
<v Speaker 4>it's kind of threatening, you know, Yeah, he had his deringer.

1:06:00.480 --> 1:06:02.200
<v Speaker 4>To me, it was the shot, the shot from the

1:06:02.240 --> 1:06:06.440
<v Speaker 4>derringer that said foul play more than the shotgun not

1:06:06.560 --> 1:06:10.520
<v Speaker 4>being there, because that's like, we know, he pulled that

1:06:10.600 --> 1:06:15.560
<v Speaker 4>trigger for some reason. Yeah, probably because he was felt

1:06:15.600 --> 1:06:19.280
<v Speaker 4>threatened for some reason. Yeah, So that to me was

1:06:19.360 --> 1:06:23.320
<v Speaker 4>the biggest indication, like, yeah, something happened because you wouldn't

1:06:23.360 --> 1:06:27.680
<v Speaker 4>just I don't know, probably not just do it for fun, right, Yeah?

1:06:29.280 --> 1:06:34.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well, I'm really excited about this next episode. We

1:06:34.640 --> 1:06:37.320
<v Speaker 2>are we're going to go into territory that we we've

1:06:37.400 --> 1:06:41.840
<v Speaker 2>never gone into before in Bear Grease, and that we

1:06:41.880 --> 1:06:45.800
<v Speaker 2>are going to How much detail did I give in

1:06:45.880 --> 1:06:49.000
<v Speaker 2>the outro of the podcast? Do you remember what I said?

1:06:50.480 --> 1:06:50.640
<v Speaker 3>Uh?

1:06:50.960 --> 1:06:56.280
<v Speaker 5>You said game Warden had used deadly force to avoid

1:06:57.000 --> 1:06:57.800
<v Speaker 5>getting drowned.

1:06:57.920 --> 1:07:01.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I just spilled the whole thing out. Maybe we

1:07:01.040 --> 1:07:01.880
<v Speaker 2>can take that back.

1:07:02.800 --> 1:07:04.560
<v Speaker 1>I'm kidding now we.

1:07:04.640 --> 1:07:08.280
<v Speaker 2>Uh uh, you didn't do that, Bear, I did?

1:07:08.600 --> 1:07:09.800
<v Speaker 1>I spilled the hole.

1:07:10.040 --> 1:07:13.120
<v Speaker 5>Okay, Well, I was just thinking that I'm not totally

1:07:13.440 --> 1:07:14.440
<v Speaker 5>sure you said that or.

1:07:14.400 --> 1:07:16.200
<v Speaker 3>No, I think you're right. I think I think you're right.

1:07:16.280 --> 1:07:18.160
<v Speaker 1>I think I did you know what, Jordan?

1:07:18.280 --> 1:07:22.480
<v Speaker 2>When I first started Bear Grease, one of the first

1:07:22.960 --> 1:07:26.680
<v Speaker 2>real uh feedback that Steve Runella gave me, which was

1:07:26.720 --> 1:07:29.240
<v Speaker 2>really good, was he said, well, you're burying the hook

1:07:29.280 --> 1:07:34.600
<v Speaker 2>too deep, because sometimes I would go to deep long before.

1:07:34.360 --> 1:07:35.920
<v Speaker 1>You kind of gave the hook.

1:07:36.560 --> 1:07:39.880
<v Speaker 2>And so I think I've found a happy medium because

1:07:39.880 --> 1:07:42.880
<v Speaker 2>sometimes you want to just like tease people along, but

1:07:42.920 --> 1:07:45.120
<v Speaker 2>then sometimes you gotta just like tell them what happened.

1:07:45.160 --> 1:07:45.920
<v Speaker 3>You know what's funny.

1:07:46.960 --> 1:07:50.520
<v Speaker 4>He he's given also great advice to me for blood Trails.

1:07:50.560 --> 1:07:53.560
<v Speaker 4>He's been he's been a big part of it. But

1:07:53.640 --> 1:07:56.680
<v Speaker 4>he gave me the opposite advice. He was like, Jordan,

1:07:56.720 --> 1:07:59.680
<v Speaker 4>you're giving away too much. You're giving away too much

1:07:59.720 --> 1:08:02.600
<v Speaker 4>too early. Really tease them a little more. Yeah, give

1:08:02.640 --> 1:08:05.200
<v Speaker 4>them a reason to keep listening. So I guess we

1:08:05.320 --> 1:08:08.760
<v Speaker 4>just have opposite tendencies there, Yes, And that could be

1:08:08.920 --> 1:08:12.400
<v Speaker 4>just from you know, doing journalism. You put everything at

1:08:12.400 --> 1:08:15.040
<v Speaker 4>the top, right, like the first three paragraphs is going

1:08:15.120 --> 1:08:17.920
<v Speaker 4>to be all the most important information. So that's just

1:08:17.960 --> 1:08:20.400
<v Speaker 4>the model that I've written in for so long. It

1:08:20.520 --> 1:08:24.519
<v Speaker 4>was hard to kind of save some you know, keep

1:08:24.560 --> 1:08:25.360
<v Speaker 4>some things back.

1:08:25.560 --> 1:08:25.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1:08:25.760 --> 1:08:29.320
<v Speaker 2>That's funny because yeah, I would have been opposite that.

1:08:29.439 --> 1:08:30.280
<v Speaker 1>If it was up to me.

1:08:30.439 --> 1:08:32.720
<v Speaker 2>On every bear grease, you wouldn't hear the hook till

1:08:32.760 --> 1:08:35.519
<v Speaker 2>the very last second, and then you would just be like,

1:08:35.560 --> 1:08:38.479
<v Speaker 2>oh my gosh, I couldn't I have been on pins

1:08:38.479 --> 1:08:41.040
<v Speaker 2>and needles this whole time. But you kind of gotta,

1:08:41.280 --> 1:08:43.920
<v Speaker 2>you kind of lead them in and then you kind

1:08:43.920 --> 1:08:46.160
<v Speaker 2>of got to tell them like what's going on? Yeah,

1:08:46.560 --> 1:08:48.960
<v Speaker 2>and then so yeah.

1:08:48.600 --> 1:08:49.360
<v Speaker 1>So yeah.

1:08:49.400 --> 1:08:52.360
<v Speaker 2>So this next episode, though, we we interview a game

1:08:52.400 --> 1:08:57.320
<v Speaker 2>warden who h tells us, tells us the story of

1:08:57.400 --> 1:09:01.040
<v Speaker 2>having to use deadly force on someone that's trying to

1:09:01.080 --> 1:09:04.479
<v Speaker 2>drow him. So that's all I'll say. It's it's pretty interesting.

1:09:04.680 --> 1:09:10.439
<v Speaker 2>Wild story, it is, Yeah, it is. It's a wild story. Well,

1:09:10.680 --> 1:09:15.559
<v Speaker 2>so after this comes out, there'll be one more episode

1:09:15.560 --> 1:09:16.920
<v Speaker 2>of Blood Trails for this year.

1:09:18.400 --> 1:09:22.920
<v Speaker 4>Last episode comes out December eighteenth. Okay, now there's a chance.

1:09:24.560 --> 1:09:27.559
<v Speaker 4>Well yeah, last episode comes out December eighteenth. We'll leave

1:09:27.600 --> 1:09:30.880
<v Speaker 4>it at that. So okay, yep, yep. Thursdays is when

1:09:31.040 --> 1:09:32.639
<v Speaker 4>is when they come out every Thursday.

1:09:32.920 --> 1:09:36.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so they have been coming out every Thursday for

1:09:36.240 --> 1:09:37.040
<v Speaker 2>like eight weeks.

1:09:37.120 --> 1:09:37.960
<v Speaker 3>Yep. Exactly.

1:09:38.000 --> 1:09:40.280
<v Speaker 1>When you run your seasons, you just run them all together.

1:09:40.720 --> 1:09:41.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:09:41.360 --> 1:09:46.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I like that model for a for a podcast. Yeah,

1:09:47.320 --> 1:09:51.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, we we five years ago just went with

1:09:51.120 --> 1:09:54.000
<v Speaker 2>a we're going to just have an episode every week,

1:09:54.240 --> 1:09:57.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, and so but I feel like you might

1:09:57.760 --> 1:10:00.679
<v Speaker 2>that model gives you time to probably make some really

1:10:00.760 --> 1:10:01.800
<v Speaker 2>quality episodes.

1:10:02.520 --> 1:10:02.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:10:02.800 --> 1:10:05.479
<v Speaker 4>I mean I couldn't because we thought about that too,

1:10:05.640 --> 1:10:07.960
<v Speaker 4>and it's just too much of a lift for me

1:10:08.160 --> 1:10:13.160
<v Speaker 4>to do that, you know, that many episodes over that

1:10:13.240 --> 1:10:15.960
<v Speaker 4>amount of time because I could work ahead, right, but

1:10:16.000 --> 1:10:18.840
<v Speaker 4>then I would I wouldn't be able to keep up, Yes,

1:10:18.920 --> 1:10:21.280
<v Speaker 4>because it takes so long to you know, like I say,

1:10:21.360 --> 1:10:22.360
<v Speaker 4>get those public records.

1:10:22.360 --> 1:10:23.760
<v Speaker 3>Sometimes it's six months. Yeah.

1:10:23.800 --> 1:10:26.920
<v Speaker 4>I was trying to talk with an investigator in Georgia.

1:10:27.240 --> 1:10:31.760
<v Speaker 4>It took six months for him to get approval from

1:10:31.800 --> 1:10:34.760
<v Speaker 4>his agency, and then like all the whole process, it

1:10:34.960 --> 1:10:37.720
<v Speaker 4>just it takes too long. So we do them by

1:10:37.760 --> 1:10:40.880
<v Speaker 4>seasons because you know, we try to just make sure

1:10:40.920 --> 1:10:44.000
<v Speaker 4>the quality is there and I've at least tried to

1:10:44.040 --> 1:10:45.840
<v Speaker 4>talk to all the relevant people.

1:10:46.080 --> 1:10:51.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yep, Well cool man, Well, anything else you need

1:10:51.920 --> 1:10:54.040
<v Speaker 2>to tell us about Blood Trails.

1:10:54.520 --> 1:10:56.360
<v Speaker 1>There's a there's a YouTube version of it.

1:10:56.560 --> 1:10:59.719
<v Speaker 4>There is, Yeah, you can it's it's up on YouTube.

1:10:59.720 --> 1:11:02.759
<v Speaker 4>There's a video version of the podcast. It's not quite

1:11:03.040 --> 1:11:07.400
<v Speaker 4>dateline yet, but we're we're we're working on it, but

1:11:07.560 --> 1:11:09.720
<v Speaker 4>people seem to really like it, so and like, if

1:11:09.760 --> 1:11:13.519
<v Speaker 4>you're curious about what these people look like, that's a

1:11:13.560 --> 1:11:15.040
<v Speaker 4>great way to watch it.

1:11:15.400 --> 1:11:15.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:11:16.000 --> 1:11:20.200
<v Speaker 4>There's also, uh, we have a web page for each episode,

1:11:20.640 --> 1:11:23.639
<v Speaker 4>so at the meat Eater dot com. Uh uh slash

1:11:23.720 --> 1:11:26.600
<v Speaker 4>Blood Trails there's a case file for each of the

1:11:26.600 --> 1:11:31.360
<v Speaker 4>episodes where we post images, you know, links to to listen, uh,

1:11:31.400 --> 1:11:33.840
<v Speaker 4>and then we have an email so it's blood Trails

1:11:33.880 --> 1:11:36.360
<v Speaker 4>at the meat Eater dot com. If you know you

1:11:36.479 --> 1:11:38.479
<v Speaker 4>have a story you think we should cover, or a

1:11:38.520 --> 1:11:42.120
<v Speaker 4>tip from a story that we've already covered, feel free

1:11:42.160 --> 1:11:44.680
<v Speaker 4>to to send that in and I read all of

1:11:44.680 --> 1:11:46.559
<v Speaker 4>it and try to respond to as much as I can.

1:11:47.040 --> 1:11:50.280
<v Speaker 2>Cool man, that's great. Well, you're doing a great job

1:11:50.360 --> 1:11:51.960
<v Speaker 2>with it, you really are. I know it makes a

1:11:52.040 --> 1:11:56.040
<v Speaker 2>lot of work, and yeah, you're doing a great job.

1:11:56.080 --> 1:11:59.400
<v Speaker 2>I look forward to when when Blood Trails solve some

1:12:00.120 --> 1:12:01.040
<v Speaker 2>crack some case.

1:12:01.640 --> 1:12:03.800
<v Speaker 3>That'll be cool. Yeah, that would be very cool. That'd

1:12:03.800 --> 1:12:04.439
<v Speaker 3>be very cool. Yeah.

1:12:04.520 --> 1:12:07.080
<v Speaker 4>No, I just I've been blown away by the response.

1:12:07.160 --> 1:12:09.200
<v Speaker 4>People seem to really like it, and I just appreciate

1:12:09.320 --> 1:12:11.080
<v Speaker 4>everyone who's who's listened to it.

1:12:11.400 --> 1:12:13.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Well, so.

1:12:15.439 --> 1:12:19.479
<v Speaker 2>The Meat Eater Live Tour is starting very soon after

1:12:19.520 --> 1:12:23.160
<v Speaker 2>this episode comes out. I think there's still tickets available

1:12:23.320 --> 1:12:30.719
<v Speaker 2>in Birming, Birmingham, Nashville, Memphis, Dallas, and Austin. I think

1:12:31.520 --> 1:12:35.439
<v Speaker 2>there's still tickets. The only the only town Jordan that

1:12:35.479 --> 1:12:38.680
<v Speaker 2>there's not tickets left is Fadville, Arkansas.

1:12:38.880 --> 1:12:41.240
<v Speaker 3>There you go, come on, you go coming out to

1:12:41.280 --> 1:12:42.519
<v Speaker 3>see well.

1:12:42.360 --> 1:12:45.960
<v Speaker 1>I mean, well, I'm not I'm not, That's not what

1:12:46.040 --> 1:12:50.559
<v Speaker 1>I'm insinuating. Just meat eat. I'm kind of bragging on this.

1:12:51.560 --> 1:12:54.479
<v Speaker 2>They asked me, or I told them a long time ago,

1:12:54.520 --> 1:12:55.880
<v Speaker 2>it is like, if we do a live tour, you

1:12:55.960 --> 1:12:57.360
<v Speaker 2>got to come to Fadeville, Arkansas.

1:12:57.439 --> 1:12:57.759
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:12:57.800 --> 1:13:00.000
<v Speaker 2>And so when they were putting this live tour together,

1:13:01.400 --> 1:13:05.320
<v Speaker 2>one of the higher ups, the big men called me

1:13:05.320 --> 1:13:07.160
<v Speaker 2>in was like, I think we should come to Fadeville.

1:13:07.360 --> 1:13:09.280
<v Speaker 3>And I was like, you gotta come to Fadeville.

1:13:09.400 --> 1:13:12.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, And sure enough, in three days the shows

1:13:12.720 --> 1:13:13.200
<v Speaker 2>sold out.

1:13:13.640 --> 1:13:16.040
<v Speaker 1>Keep thanking the people of Arkansas.

1:13:16.080 --> 1:13:17.360
<v Speaker 3>Good folks that will.

1:13:17.240 --> 1:13:19.760
<v Speaker 2>Come see Brent. You know, Brent's on a live tour.

1:13:19.920 --> 1:13:24.960
<v Speaker 2>So and then yeah, Bary'll be there. It's kind of

1:13:25.000 --> 1:13:27.200
<v Speaker 2>a secret. I'm gonna let it out though. Bary'll be there.

1:13:27.240 --> 1:13:31.360
<v Speaker 2>And then we'll have one other secret guest that you'll

1:13:31.400 --> 1:13:34.000
<v Speaker 2>be very glad is there. All right, So it's going

1:13:34.280 --> 1:13:38.800
<v Speaker 2>Faidville and there there's there's secret guests at every location.

1:13:39.240 --> 1:13:41.240
<v Speaker 3>You know, so they're all going to be fun. Yeah,

1:13:41.400 --> 1:13:43.479
<v Speaker 3>all gonna be fun. Yeah, for sure, for sure.

1:13:43.840 --> 1:13:45.200
<v Speaker 1>You coming to one in Dallas.

1:13:45.240 --> 1:13:46.880
<v Speaker 3>I'm gonna try. Yeah, I'm gonna try.

1:13:46.920 --> 1:13:50.240
<v Speaker 4>It's like three days before Christmas, but I'm definitely gonna

1:13:50.240 --> 1:13:50.880
<v Speaker 4>try to be stuff.

1:13:51.080 --> 1:13:53.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but it's a Christmas it's a Christmas theme.

1:13:53.920 --> 1:13:58.160
<v Speaker 4>Hey, if if you're off work, you know, come out

1:13:58.439 --> 1:14:01.640
<v Speaker 4>have some fun. Yeah, and your friends, Like, sounds like

1:14:01.680 --> 1:14:02.200
<v Speaker 4>a great time.

1:14:02.520 --> 1:14:08.280
<v Speaker 2>I've never met anybody that was disappointed. I'm sure there there.

1:14:08.479 --> 1:14:11.040
<v Speaker 2>It's possible that someone would have been disappointed that wouldn't

1:14:11.040 --> 1:14:12.000
<v Speaker 2>have contacted me.

1:14:12.680 --> 1:14:13.759
<v Speaker 1>Just vibe.

1:14:14.000 --> 1:14:17.960
<v Speaker 2>The vibe that I've gotten from every single live event,

1:14:18.280 --> 1:14:20.640
<v Speaker 2>live turur that I've been on has been that just

1:14:20.640 --> 1:14:23.360
<v Speaker 2>people have a great time, kind of a surprising good time.

1:14:23.479 --> 1:14:25.479
<v Speaker 3>Yeah you know. Yeah, well yeah they do a great

1:14:25.560 --> 1:14:26.080
<v Speaker 3>job with them.

1:14:26.200 --> 1:14:27.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure, they're fun.

1:14:27.640 --> 1:14:28.120
<v Speaker 3>They're fun.

1:14:28.280 --> 1:14:32.080
<v Speaker 1>So all right, well, thanks Jordan for coming up.

1:14:32.200 --> 1:14:34.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, thanks for having me. It's good to good to

1:14:34.840 --> 1:14:35.200
<v Speaker 3>out here.

1:14:35.240 --> 1:14:39.360
<v Speaker 2>Everybody can check out Blood Trails now the YouTube channel

1:14:39.479 --> 1:14:41.680
<v Speaker 2>is it the podcast Meet Eater podcast?

1:14:42.360 --> 1:14:43.839
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the mutuo.

1:14:43.920 --> 1:14:47.400
<v Speaker 4>You have like a separate YouTube channel for the podcasts,

1:14:47.880 --> 1:14:48.559
<v Speaker 4>so it's on there.

1:14:48.800 --> 1:14:52.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's right there. Podcasts. Yeah, he just starts that

1:14:52.200 --> 1:14:53.640
<v Speaker 3>it'll come up Blood.

1:14:53.360 --> 1:14:56.360
<v Speaker 1>Trail all right, well, keep the wild places wild

1:14:56.360 --> 1:14:57.559
<v Speaker 3>Because that's where the bears live.