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Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nukleman.

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Speaker 2: This is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called

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Speaker 2: The Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper,

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Speaker 2: and look behind the scenes of the actual Bear Grease podcast,

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Speaker 2: presented by f h F Gear, American Maid, purpose built

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Speaker 2: hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged

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Speaker 2: as the place as we explore. So yesterday I was

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Speaker 2: checking my multary app as I'm prone to do in

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Speaker 2: the evenings primetime, and I see a gilly suited figure

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Speaker 2: come across my trail camera and it's Bear and he

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Speaker 2: he leans in front of the camera with this arrow

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Speaker 2: like this, and there's a rabbit hanging down from his arrow,

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Speaker 2: and he's got his self bow. And it was basically

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Speaker 2: like sometimes Bear has a challenge in communicating with his father,

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Speaker 2: especially when he's in the field. When he's in the field,

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Speaker 2: I'm constantly like give me updates, like what do you see?

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Speaker 2: Like I need play by play, Like I even say

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Speaker 2: I want to know every blue Jay that you see,

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Speaker 2: you know, like give me the details, And I get

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Speaker 2: like two updates a day, like if he's a long

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Speaker 2: ways away. So I felt like this was like a

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Speaker 2: picture's worth a thousand words.

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Speaker 3: It was like, what more do you need to know?

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Speaker 3: You needed to see?

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Speaker 2: Hey, you know what you So we're here with Jordan

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Speaker 2: Sellers of Meat Eater, of the new podcast Blood Trails

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Speaker 2: on meat Eater. That's just done really well. We're going

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Speaker 2: to talk all about it. But me and Bear have

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Speaker 2: a scenario that the world nothing about that we need

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Speaker 2: some input on them. Bear had a trail camera out

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Speaker 2: on public land over here and left it out maybe

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Speaker 2: a little bit too long during GUNN season, which I

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Speaker 2: would have advised him against doing.

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Speaker 1: Somebody stole it.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and they did not turn the video off

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Speaker 2: really yeah, And I'm a little nervous to share all

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Speaker 2: the details, but I think I can't see any reason

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Speaker 2: why I wouldn't. It was a kid, oh like a like.

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Speaker 1: Maybe like a twelve year old kid. Yeah, and this

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Speaker 1: I mean it might as well.

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Speaker 2: Like I mean it happened in northwest Arkansas on public land,

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Speaker 2: twelve year old kid. Like we have the full video, like,

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Speaker 2: take the camera off the tree and then the thing

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Speaker 2: continues to play, like take video in the truck on

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Speaker 2: the way home, takes it in his house, sets it

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Speaker 2: on a counter case outward and basically we get videos

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Speaker 2: of this.

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Speaker 3: Family for.

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Speaker 1: Until the camera ran out.

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Speaker 3: Of battery, No kidding.

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Speaker 2: I called the sheriff the first day, and I wasn't

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Speaker 2: that worried about the trail camera. I wasn't even and

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Speaker 2: he was like, well, do you want to press charges

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Speaker 2: on these people? And I was like, well, yeah, no,

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Speaker 2: probably not. I mean, I didn't want to make a

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Speaker 2: big deal about it. I said, I do want y'all

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Speaker 2: to know that my trail camera that's in their house

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Speaker 2: taking videos of their families has nothing to do with me.

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Speaker 1: They stole my trail camera.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you're not spying on them for some reason. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And what's a man to do in that situation? Jordan?

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Speaker 3: What would you do?

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Speaker 1: What would you have done?

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Speaker 2: I tried to shut off the camera, but I couldn't

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Speaker 2: figure out how to actually shut the camera down anyway.

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Speaker 1: What would you do?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I mean, that's obviously, you know, not y'all's fault at all.

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Speaker 4: And I agree with you. It's not so much like

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Speaker 4: the camera's not so important. If I was, you know,

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Speaker 4: that kid's parent, I would want to know, Hey, this

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Speaker 4: is what your kid's doing. But also I think a

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Speaker 4: lot of times stuff like that can sometimes be just

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Speaker 4: the tip of the iceberg, right right, And so it's

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Speaker 4: good to inform law enforcement.

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Speaker 3: You don't want to press charges, you don't want.

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Speaker 4: To get these people in trouble for that specific thing,

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Speaker 4: but you want to say, hey, because maybe maybe someone

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Speaker 4: in that household is being investigated for something else and

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Speaker 4: law enforcement is going to know that, and so that's

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Speaker 4: going to be something that you know they're going to

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Speaker 4: want to be in the loop on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think you did the right thing.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's also hard to imagine how the parents couldn't

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Speaker 2: have been in on it, because this kid went from

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Speaker 2: hunting right into a vehicle that was driven home and

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Speaker 2: he's got the camera just like bouncing around in the truck.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, I mean that's why I say, I think,

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Speaker 4: you know, maybe the adults in the house, maybe law

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Speaker 4: enforcement will want to know what's going on here, right.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, I could imagine that they're not seeing the

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Speaker 5: camera the way it's set up, it's got to be

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Speaker 5: just like right out in the open.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I just feel like there's a real I still

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Speaker 2: am kind of giving them the benefit of the doubt

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Speaker 2: in a way, because I almost I mean, it would

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Speaker 2: be crazy for someone who these people appeared to be.

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Speaker 2: I mean, they had camouflage, they had Hunter's orange, they

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Speaker 2: had guns, like they kind of knew what they were doing. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but they were crazy enough to not know that that

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Speaker 2: camera was on and taking video right and didn't turn

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Speaker 2: it off. So that's step number one that they don't

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Speaker 2: really know what's going on. Yeah, but I mean, would

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Speaker 2: it be possible in twenty twenty five that some kid

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Speaker 2: could have been like, oh, they left their trail camera

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Speaker 2: out here. I guess they're not coming back for it.

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Speaker 2: Let's get it.

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Speaker 4: Do you did you have your like contact info or

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Speaker 4: anything on the camera.

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure we might have, yeah.

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Speaker 4: Because in that scenario they knew yeah, right, but maybe

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Speaker 4: I mean yeah, maybe it was more innocent and this

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Speaker 4: is just like you know, they thought it was theirs

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Speaker 4: for the taking.

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Speaker 2: Maybe well yeah, yeah, it's uh, it was a it

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Speaker 2: was a unnerving I mean I was unnerved because I

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Speaker 2: didn't wanna. I mean, I don't know, when somebody steals

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Speaker 2: something from you, you feel like, yeah, they should be

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Speaker 2: held accountable.

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Speaker 4: Was it what I mean, what did you see when

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Speaker 4: you like it set up on a counter? Is it

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Speaker 4: like the kitchen or.

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Speaker 2: I checked that multi app like way too much, you know,

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Speaker 2: throughout the day. And my first clue was I started

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Speaker 2: seeing the cab of a truck, right, and I just

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Speaker 2: thought maybe Baird picked up a camera and moved it

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Speaker 2: and didn't turn it off, you know. And then I

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Speaker 2: started seeing faces of people I didn't know, and it

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Speaker 2: was it was taking videos. Yeah, and I didn't request

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Speaker 2: like ninety percent of the videos. I never like requested

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Speaker 2: the video because on the multi app, you see this

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Speaker 2: like thumbnail and you request the video and then it

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Speaker 2: sends it to you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, and so.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, so if if if this is you, if you're

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Speaker 2: out there listening and you've taken our trail camera, I

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Speaker 2: will not humiliate you publicly. If you'd like to contact me.

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Speaker 2: Several people said, well, Klay put this video on online,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, there's no way I'm going to

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Speaker 2: do that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I'm not.

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Speaker 2: Like out for blood, right, But a lot of people

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Speaker 2: would have maybe in a different scenario than me.

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean, I think it makes a big difference

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Speaker 4: that it's a kid first, it does, that's.

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Speaker 1: A right, videos of parents too, yeah, yeah, or who somebody.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know, I don't know. That's a tough one.

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Speaker 5: I've I've had a number of things stolen off public

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Speaker 5: land this year, really had a tree stand and then, Uh,

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Speaker 5: the most frustrating one was I had a camera that

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Speaker 5: I'd set out like way back in there all year

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Speaker 5: and I went to go check it and someone had

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Speaker 5: just taken the SD card, which is so disappointing. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: because I wanted to see what was on there. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: have a big buck on there.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: Well, they're like, hey, we can maybe get some intel.

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Speaker 4: Would have been nice to return it, you know, right,

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Speaker 4: look at it.

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Speaker 3: Fine. But at least.

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Speaker 2: One time, years ago, when I was not using cell

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Speaker 2: cameras and I had I had cameras in bear boxes.

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Speaker 2: They was in bear country, so I wasn't really trying

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Speaker 2: to lock the cameras from people, but I was trying

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Speaker 2: to keep them from bears chewing them up. Yeah, And

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Speaker 2: so I I left them unlocked but still in a

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Speaker 2: bare box, you know. And I wrote in a sharpie

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Speaker 2: marker on the thing, my name, my cell phone number,

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Speaker 2: and I said call me and I will share these

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Speaker 2: images with you.

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Speaker 3: Oh, there you find it. There you go.

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Speaker 4: It's kind of like people who leave their car unlocked, right,

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Speaker 4: it's like, don't break my window, just you know, if

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Speaker 4: you want the car, just take it, right, you want

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Speaker 4: the stuff inside, just take it, you know.

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Speaker 3: Well idea.

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Speaker 2: I felt like it was a reasonable thing that I did,

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Speaker 2: and I never got a single call.

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Speaker 1: I mean it was it was so far back.

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Speaker 2: The way I justified it in my mind was that

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Speaker 2: if there's somebody standing right here, I would I want

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Speaker 2: to be their friend, kind of one of those deals

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Speaker 2: like I want to know why you're back here because

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Speaker 2: this is a dumb place to be, right and uh

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Speaker 2: and but I never never had a call. Maybe I

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Speaker 2: only got one picture in like a seven year span

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Speaker 2: of another person, So somebody walked past that camera would

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Speaker 2: have seen that, but they didn't. Didn't mess with a camera. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so anyway, trail cameras trail cameras.

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Speaker 4: Well, speaking of blood trails and trail cameras, the last

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Speaker 4: episode in this season, the detective the Hunter was killed

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Speaker 4: out in the forest in Michigan, and the detective put

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Speaker 4: trail cams looking at the place where the guy died

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Speaker 4: because he thought maybe the person who killed him will

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Speaker 4: come back. Oh and uh, this is kind of a

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Speaker 4: long story, but sure enough, a guy comes back. Multiple days,

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Speaker 4: they get photos of him looking down at the spot

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Speaker 4: where this guy died, and then he also gets independently

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Speaker 4: other tips coming in saying you should look at this guy.

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Speaker 4: Turns out it's the same guy. I thought that was

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Speaker 4: a smart use of trail cams.

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Speaker 2: You know, you think he hid the trail camera though, yeah,

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Speaker 2: he liked it really well, yeah.

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Speaker 4: He hit it, so the guy didn't know there was

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Speaker 4: a camera there. But he's walking past this, you know,

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Speaker 4: the crime scene, like a week after it happened. Wow,

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Speaker 4: And I was like, that's a that's really smart because

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Speaker 4: you'd imagine, you know, if that happened, you'd go back

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Speaker 4: right if whether it was an accident or on purpose,

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Speaker 4: like you kind of have this fascination with that spot.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I won't give it away, but that guy who

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Speaker 4: they saw on the trail cam ended up he had

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Speaker 4: an alibi.

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Speaker 3: And it's this kind of whole thing.

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Speaker 2: But oh wow, yeah, well okay, I have a similar scenario,

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Speaker 2: but not with a human. So in Arkansas a couple

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Speaker 2: of months ago, well October the second, there was a

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Speaker 2: bear that killed a man in Arkansas about two hours

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Speaker 2: from here. Yeah, Game and Fish put up trail cameras

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Speaker 2: at the at the spot and put up a bunch

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Speaker 2: of traps and eight and basically, if a bear came

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Speaker 2: back in that fit the description of the bear that

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Speaker 2: we had pictures of, So that the guy that had

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Speaker 2: been killed took pictures of a bear in his camp

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Speaker 2: and bear Knwkom and I, by kind of happenstance were

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Speaker 2: involved in some way with this. We were there when

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Speaker 2: they found it out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And.

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Speaker 2: So they set up so after that day they took

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Speaker 2: the body and they set up trail cameras, sell cameras,

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Speaker 2: and basically they said, if we get a picture of

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Speaker 2: a bear that does not go into trap, the first

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Speaker 2: chance was to put it in a trap catch it.

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Speaker 2: But it was right during October when all the acrons

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Speaker 2: were falling, and all of us that hunted bear over

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Speaker 2: bait knew that probably the bear was not going to

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Speaker 2: go into trap, and sure enough we were right three

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Speaker 2: days later. So it's a Thursday afternoon when we went

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Speaker 2: to the scene of where the guy was killed. And

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Speaker 2: then that Sunday afternoon we got a call and I

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Speaker 2: knew guys that had dogs that would tree bear, and

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Speaker 2: so we got a call that they had a camera

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Speaker 2: a bear on camera. This is kind of a follow

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Speaker 2: up because we talked about this on Bear Grease Render,

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Speaker 2: but we didn't tell the rest of the story, as

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Speaker 2: Paul Harry would say, So we thought the bear that

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Speaker 2: killed this guy is going to come back to where

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Speaker 2: it happened.

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Speaker 1: Well, shure it up.

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Speaker 2: Three days later, a juvenile male shows up on the

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Speaker 2: camera and gave him fish calls, and they're like, bam,

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Speaker 2: it's here, bring the hounds. It didn't go on a trap,

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Speaker 2: so we zoom over there and uh and basically I

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Speaker 2: was just a part of it, and there were there

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Speaker 2: were two or three local houndsmen turned loose dogs and

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Speaker 2: tree this bear within an hour. I mean, it was

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Speaker 2: just like that easy wow, and they shoot the bear.

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Speaker 2: I get there right after the bear's been shot. I

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Speaker 2: did talk about this. So we hauled the bear out

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Speaker 2: in the body bag out of this big canaan and

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Speaker 2: they sent it to the crime lab. And every one

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Speaker 2: of us there that night I think would have bet

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Speaker 2: our trucks.

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Speaker 1: That it was the bear.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just you know, the only bear that showed back

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Speaker 2: up goes to the crime lab and it's not the bear.

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Speaker 1: The wrong bear.

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Speaker 2: Disappointing, So it's kind of like, well, I don't know

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Speaker 2: the final don't call it for me, but your criminal

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Speaker 2: sounds very similar back to the scene. Our criminal never

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Speaker 2: did because one bear in thirty days, they kept trail

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Speaker 2: cameras up and fresh bade out for thirty days at

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Speaker 2: this place called Sam's Throne where this bear was, where

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Speaker 2: this man was killed. Not a single other bear came

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Speaker 2: in there. That was the only bear that came back.

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Speaker 2: And it was not the bear, and it had a

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Speaker 2: blonde muzzle.

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Speaker 5: It was a small male like it looked exactly like

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Speaker 5: the one in the picture.

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Speaker 4: No kidding, Yeah it did. And they had a I know,

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Speaker 4: like with I assume they did like DNA testing where

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Speaker 4: they compared the saliven things. Yeah, and they had a

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Speaker 4: high degree of confidence not the right bear.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, really high degree of confidence because you know the

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Speaker 2: body of the man had yeah right bear DNA all

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Speaker 2: over it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, and.

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Speaker 1: So it was a wrong bear.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, man, tell me about blood trails.

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Speaker 2: So if if you're listening to Bear Greece, you've probably

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Speaker 2: heard about blood trails before, but.

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Speaker 1: Tell me just like the general premise of it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So it's a it's a true crime podcast about

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Speaker 4: hunters and Anglers is kind of the elevator pitch for it.

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Speaker 3: So there they're criminal cases.

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Speaker 4: Sometimes a hunter is killed, sometimes the hunter is the perpetrator.

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Speaker 4: There's a few stories where hunters go missing and it's

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Speaker 4: not like you know, he he got lost or whatever.

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Speaker 4: There's suspicious circumstances that surround the missing person. And so

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Speaker 4: this is the first season. It's almost done as of

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Speaker 4: this recording. There's eight episodes in this first season, but

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Speaker 4: we're working on more. So if you like these first eight,

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Speaker 4: there's gonna be more coming up in the next.

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Speaker 2: Year that it'll be there'll be seasons with like blongs

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Speaker 2: of episodes.

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Speaker 3: Yep.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna release them by season. So,

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Speaker 4: you know, I don't know exactly what the release schedule

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Speaker 4: will look like, but we're thinking sometime in the spring

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Speaker 4: we'll release another block of eight to ten and they're.

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Speaker 1: Maybe two of those a year.

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Speaker 3: Yep, yep. That's the hope. That's the cope.

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Speaker 4: And the episodes are usually kind of standalone. Well, I

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Speaker 4: think we'll do the occasional like two parter where it's

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Speaker 4: you know, two episodes, but you know, each each episode

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Speaker 4: is a different case.

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Speaker 1: Sty hour long.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, about an hour long. Some aer are a little more,

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Speaker 3: some a little less.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, so did you were you interested in this

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Speaker 2: kind of stuff before because you're also a writer.

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Speaker 1: At Meat Eater.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, write a lot of just like hunting, fishing stuff,

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Speaker 2: NEWSS related stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yep, yep. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So I'm I'm the managing editor of the website, so

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Speaker 4: I write a lot of the articles on the website.

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Speaker 4: I also help Ryan Callahan write his podcast. Okay, so

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Speaker 4: he's he does you know, I'm sure everyone knows Cal's

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Speaker 4: Week in Review.

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Speaker 3: It's a news podcast.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so I'm always sort of in the weeds on

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Speaker 4: the latest news, the latest stories coming out. And a

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Speaker 4: lot of the stories we cover for both the website

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Speaker 4: and for Cal's podcast are crime stories, and usually there

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Speaker 4: it's wildlife crime, so it's poachers things like that. But

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Speaker 4: you know, occasionally they'll be a hunter who dies and

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Speaker 4: we'll cover that type of story as well. So, yeah,

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Speaker 4: this is something I've been doing for you know, quite

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Speaker 4: a few years now, you know, researching these stories, finding sources,

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Speaker 4: trying to put the pieces together. And Blood Trails really

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Speaker 4: started with this guy wrote in and he said my

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Speaker 4: buddy was killed. He was a Turkey hunter and he

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Speaker 4: was killed out in the woods. They never found out

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Speaker 4: who did it, but I have some ideas on who

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Speaker 4: did it, and that was obviously very interesting. So I

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Speaker 4: call him up and he tells me this wild story

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Speaker 4: of he did his own kind of investigation. He came

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Speaker 4: up with his own suspects, but law enforcement, you know,

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Speaker 4: for whatever reason, they never charged anyone.

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Speaker 3: He you know, the person who did it was never found.

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Speaker 4: And so I thought, this, this story is good enough,

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Speaker 4: you know, for not just for an article on the website,

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Speaker 4: but for a whole podcast, like a whole episode. And

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Speaker 4: so we put out that podcast back in March of

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Speaker 4: this year as a kind of a pilot episode, and

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Speaker 4: people like that a lot, and so we decided, you

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Speaker 4: know what, let's there's plenty of stories out there, right

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Speaker 4: That's and that's a question I get is like, how

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Speaker 4: many stories.

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Speaker 3: Could there be?

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Speaker 1: That was my next question.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, criminal stories related to hunters, anglers, and we we

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Speaker 4: we do expand it out a little bit to you know, hikers, campers,

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Speaker 4: people who are using public land in some way. And

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Speaker 4: there's there's tons, I mean there's tons just this yeah,

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Speaker 4: just this last year, and this is another story we're

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Speaker 4: looking into There are these two kids who were camping

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Speaker 4: out in Arizona on some some public land that were

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Speaker 4: found murdered and it was totally random. They couldn't figure

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Speaker 4: out who did it. They just arrested a suspect just

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Speaker 4: like a month ago. And so, you know, unfortunately, these

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Speaker 4: stories are are fairly common. And you know, we're going

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Speaker 4: back to the earliest story from this season is nineteen

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Speaker 4: seventy five, so you know, if if you take that

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Speaker 4: expanse of time, there's gonna be plenty of stories like this.

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Speaker 6: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that really was gonna be by the story

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Speaker 2: is you know, how common is this?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

384
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Speaker 4: I mean it's it's you know, unfortunately common enough. And

385
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Speaker 4: once these first episodes started to come out, we're getting

386
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Speaker 4: tons of emails like, hey, you should cover this story,

387
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:18,919
Speaker 4: Hey cover that story. Even we're getting detectives, you know,

388
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Speaker 4: who say, I have this cold case from the nineties,

389
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Speaker 4: we haven't figured out who did it. I'd love to,

390
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Speaker 4: you know, talk to you so you can kind of

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Speaker 4: spread the word. And a lot of times with those

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Speaker 4: cold cases, people are are more than happy to talk,

393
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Speaker 4: you know, because they want to get the word out.

394
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Speaker 3: They want to help R and I have I have

395
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Speaker 3: heard back.

396
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Speaker 4: I can't really provide a ton of detail right now,

397
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Speaker 4: but I have heard back from a few of the

398
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Speaker 4: people involved in episodes that have come out who have said,

399
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,280
Speaker 4: this is getting people talking where we think we're making

400
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,480
Speaker 4: some progress here just because of the you know, getting

401
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,719
Speaker 4: the word out and and a lot of times, you know,

402
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,639
Speaker 4: if if law enforcements talking to me, it probably means

403
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:05,600
Speaker 4: they're really what they really need our tips coming in

404
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:09,439
Speaker 4: from someone, someone who knows something, and so that's what

405
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,480
Speaker 4: they're relying on. And you know, I hope, I hope

406
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:14,280
Speaker 4: some of these episodes can generate some.

407
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:18,600
Speaker 1: Of ye helps solve the case.

408
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Speaker 4: I would love that because I mean, one of the

409
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Speaker 4: things that it's really important to me with with these

410
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Speaker 4: episodes is I want to talk to the families of

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Speaker 4: the victims, because I want to know about the victim, right.

412
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Speaker 4: I don't want the victim to just be like, you know,

413
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Speaker 4: it's not just like a puzzle to solve. This is

414
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Speaker 4: a real person and they have a real family and

415
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Speaker 4: it impacted them deeply. So I try whenever I can

416
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,720
Speaker 4: to talk to the families of the victims and so

417
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 4: to have, you know, potentially this case be solved. Having

418
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Speaker 4: spoken with them and then having told me, like how

419
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Speaker 4: difficult it is, especially for these cold cases, how difficult

420
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Speaker 4: it is to not know what happened.

421
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Speaker 3: That would just, I mean, be so cool, so cool.

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Speaker 2: I guess a lot of these true, like the big

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Speaker 2: like Crime Junkie is one of the biggest podcasts in

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Speaker 2: the world.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, am I right?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's. I think I just saw Spotify's

427
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Speaker 4: list for this year. I think it was four fourth

428
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Speaker 4: on Spotify.

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Speaker 2: So in that podcast has helped solve a lot of cases,

430
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Speaker 2: Is that right?

431
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 3: I think so, yeah, I've heard that.

432
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, I guess it would get a

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Speaker 2: lot of people excited.

434
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Speaker 1: It would.

435
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 2: There's probably some criminals shaking in their boots.

436
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 3: Sellers is on the case.

437
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you better better watch it, man, you better

438
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 1: watch it.

439
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,240
Speaker 4: I don't know about that, but you know it's it's

440
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 4: it's fun to have that potentially that real world, real

441
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Speaker 4: world impact.

442
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Speaker 2: So, okay, this is this is what I wanted to

443
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Speaker 2: talk to you about. When you're when you're dealing with families. Yeah,

444
00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 2: like now Bear Grease, we really was just happenstance. We

445
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 2: just did our first murder, which kind of overlaps into

446
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 2: your lane.

447
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 1: Lake Pickle was like, Clay, why are you.

448
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 2: Doing this to Jordan And I was like doing what

449
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 2: And I was like, well, it really was just completely

450
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:18,120
Speaker 2: happenstance that we did. Uh we did a murder mystery

451
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,639
Speaker 2: in Bear Greasewitch. Great job by the way, Yeah, thank you,

452
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 2: and it just kind of the story just kind of

453
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 2: fell on my lap. But I'm I'm more common to

454
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 2: us is doing like an outlaw podcast, which involves criminals

455
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,680
Speaker 2: or potential criminals, maybe guys that were never even caught.

456
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 2: And I'm always like tiptoeing around and really conscious of

457
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 2: people's families, like living Like if I'm talking about someone,

458
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 2: I'm thinking about their living family, and I feel like

459
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,160
Speaker 2: that would be pretty sensitive with what you're doing.

460
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 1: I don't know, what, what do you think about? How

461
00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 1: do you how do you handle that?

462
00:23:59,040 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 3: Yeah?

463
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,640
Speaker 4: I mean that's that's one of the most difficult things

464
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 4: to navigate, right, is Like you want you want the

465
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 4: family of a victim to talk to you, in part

466
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 4: selfishly because it's going to make the episode so much

467
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 4: more you know, interesting for the audience, right, but you

468
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 4: also have to recognize, like you're asking them to relive

469
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 4: what's probably the worst thing that's ever happened to them, right,

470
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 4: Like I I've talked to I talked to a guy

471
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 4: who found his father dead in the woods, and you know,

472
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 4: I had I had to ask him what was that?

473
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 3: Like, like, tell me what happened?

474
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 4: And in doing that, I'm asking him to relive this

475
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 4: horrible thing, right that he probably tries not to think about, right,

476
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 4: and I'm asking him try to think about it.

477
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 3: So I never take that for granted.

478
00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 4: They do it usually because they're they're wanting the case

479
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,359
Speaker 4: to be solved, and they recognize that by talking to me,

480
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 4: by answering my questions that could help the case be solved.

481
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 4: When it gets more difficult from my perspective, is when

482
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 4: the case is closed. Because we don't just cover cold

483
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 4: cases on this podcast, some of the cases have been

484
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 4: officially closed.

485
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 3: I would say, there's there are still questions.

486
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 4: With each story that we cover, there's still unanswered questions,

487
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 4: but some of the cases have been officially closed, and

488
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 4: so the family feels like, you know, I don't I

489
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 4: don't want to talk about this.

490
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 3: I want to move on. And you know what.

491
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 4: I hope is that they'll still talk to me, because,

492
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 4: like I said, I want the victim to be like

493
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 4: a fully fleshed out human. And the best person to

494
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,400
Speaker 4: make that happen is the family, because they're the ones

495
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 4: who can tell me, you know what, what.

496
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 3: Was this caser?

497
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: I had some people not want to talk to you.

498
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, oh yeah?

499
00:25:58,040 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: Does it? Does it shut the story down?

500
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:03,679
Speaker 3: There was?

501
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,880
Speaker 4: There have been a couple where I've wanted to cover

502
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 4: and just have hit brick wall after brickwall. Sometimes it's

503
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 4: law enforcement, sometimes it's families. You know, a lot of

504
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 4: times people just don't respond. They don't they don't even

505
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 4: say like, I don't want to talk about this.

506
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: I just just can't get any traction there.

507
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 4: There have been a couple where someone has responded and

508
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 4: we go back and forth a bit and then they decide, actually,

509
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 4: I don't want to do this, yeah, for for whatever reason.

510
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 4: Sometimes it's do you feel a little bit.

511
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 2: A little bit like I don't want to use the

512
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 2: word icky, but that's the way.

513
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 3: That's probably the best word.

514
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 2: When you're kind of like digging in somebody and they go, hey, no.

515
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, because I have before well and and this is

516
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 4: this is the reputation that especially true crime podcasts get

517
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 4: right where kind of capitalizing on people's grief. Right, we're

518
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 4: taking advantage of this horrible thing that happened to people,

519
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 4: and I'm I'm very sensitive to that, which is why

520
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 4: I always want to be as respectful as possible to

521
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 4: everyone involved, whether that's the families of the victims, but

522
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 4: also the families of the perpetrators of the people who

523
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,679
Speaker 4: have done this horrible thing. Their families, as long as

524
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,479
Speaker 4: they weren't complicit, their families are are also victims in

525
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,719
Speaker 4: a sense, yes, And so you know, it's it's a

526
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 4: tricky thing to navigate. I the after an episode comes out.

527
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 4: The thing I don't read comments, I don't I don't

528
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 4: do that. But the thing that I'm that worries me

529
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 4: the most is that text from the family member they've

530
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 4: listened to the episode so far, everything's it's all been positive.

531
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 4: I've just gotten this is great, we really appreciate it,

532
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 4: thanks so much, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah,

533
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 4: but that's what really that's what would really bother me,

534
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 4: I think is if a family member texted me and said,

535
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 4: you messed up. You didn't, you know, describe this correctly,

536
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 4: you made it worse. Anything like that, that would you know,

537
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 4: that would really.

538
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 2: Bother me, man, I completely identify with what you're saying.

539
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 2: I told someone just this last week, well with this

540
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 2: Bucky Garrison story. In this case, I was I wasn't

541
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 2: able to contact any of the family on this one.

542
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 2: I just it just like every time I went that way,

543
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 2: it just kind of got shut down. And it wasn't

544
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 2: by the family, It just I couldn't find them.

545
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's tough, and yeah, but.

546
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 2: I was very interested in Oklahoma Department Wildlife, like their

547
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 2: perspective on it, and so I was kind of like

548
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 2: waiting for that text message of like, hey, thanks, you know,

549
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 2: so I understand.

550
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: I understand that completely, and I wasn't going to say

551
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 1: the victims.

552
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 2: It's really easy to talk about a bad guy. But really,

553
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 2: if you understand humans, you understand that a lot of

554
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 2: bad guys come from families that aren't all bad guys,

555
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 2: you know. And so you're kind of bringing up something

556
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 2: from the past happened a long time ago, that's in

557
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 2: this family's rear view mirror. They're probably trying to get

558
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 2: away from it exactly. And that's one that's harder. It's

559
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 2: easier to justify doing a story because this person was

560
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 2: the bad guy and in a sense, you know, you

561
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 2: kind of feel justified and like, well, they should have

562
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 2: never done this to begin with, so we can tell

563
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 2: this story again. But I have felt like in some

564
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 2: of the Outlaw stuff we've done, been very conscious of

565
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 2: the Outlaws family, yep, you know, just because it's like

566
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:54,479
Speaker 2: they wanted to forget.

567
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, their friends or family are going to listen to

568
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 4: the podcast, you know, and some of them maybe they

569
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 4: don't they didn't know, and they're gonna text them say, hey,

570
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 4: I didn't know. You know, your so and so was

571
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 4: a such and such and it's gonna it's gonna cause problems.

572
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

573
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 4: Like the the one episode that came out, well it's

574
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 4: coming out this week as of this recording, but it's

575
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 4: it's about a guy, a hunter in Georgia who was

576
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 4: found stabbed eighteen times and they ruled it a suicide

577
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 4: and there's all kinds of reasons for that in the

578
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 4: podcast to you can you can listen to that. But

579
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 4: his hunting buddy was you know, suspect number one, right,

580
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 4: because they traveled somewhere else to hunt. So these two

581
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 4: guys were the only two that knew each other. It

582
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 4: was kind of in this hard to get to back place.

583
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 4: It was dark, it was after dark, and so this

584
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 4: this guy's hunting buddy was suspect number one. And this

585
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 4: is one where you know, we went back and forth

586
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 4: for a while and he seemed willing to talk about it.

587
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 4: But then I think the more he thought about it,

588
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 4: he told me he's just like I. As I've been

589
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 4: thinking about it, it's brought back so many horrible memories

590
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 4: that I just don't want to I don't want to

591
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 4: talk about it, you know, I want to put it

592
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 4: in my rearview mirror.

593
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 3: I don't want to think about it anymore.

594
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 4: And so that you know that that's kind of difficult

595
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 4: for me as someone who is putting out this story,

596
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 4: who you know, people are going to start talking.

597
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 3: About this guy again.

598
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't want that to blow back on him

599
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 4: because he didn't do it. It's it's pretty clear that

600
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 4: he didn't do it, and so you know. But but again,

601
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 4: I think there's a there's still a public interest in

602
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 4: people knowing about these stories. But they're not without you know,

603
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 4: it's not without some qualms on my part at.

604
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 2: Times, Barry have any questions for him? You be thinking

605
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 2: about it, I've got another you be thinking you're up next,

606
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 2: what's the typical scenario?

607
00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: Like?

608
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 2: Uh, like, if with all that you've done, and you know,

609
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 2: five years from now, after you've done you know, seventy

610
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 2: of these, maybe you would have a better sense. But like,

611
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 2: what happens with hunters and anglers? Are they are they

612
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 2: usually or is there any trend? Are they usually killed

613
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 2: by a stranger? Are they usually killed by their buddy?

614
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 2: Did they usually die on accident? What's the trend?

615
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 3: Well?

616
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 4: I mean, I think accident is going to be the

617
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 4: number one thing. That's not We're not really going to

618
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 4: cover unless there's some other kind of circumstance involved. A

619
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 4: lot of those though, I will say the we covered

620
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 4: a story of a hunter named Aaron Hedges who went

621
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 4: hunting with two of his buddies out in Montana, and

622
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 4: it appears like that was probably an accident. But I

623
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 4: say probably because there's still some kind of questions. But

624
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 4: I would say accident has to be. It's got to

625
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 4: be number one, right, like whether the gun or whatever.

626
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 4: I think there are a lot where I don't know

627
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 4: about a lot, but but it seems to come up

628
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 4: where it's an accidental shooting. Right, It's not a malicious

629
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 4: like murder, but the person who pulled the trigger doesn't

630
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 4: runs away, doesn't come forward, right, So that's kind of

631
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 4: a crime on top of a crime. He doesn't mean

632
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 4: to kill it, like the one the first when you

633
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 4: go back in March with the turkey hunter that got

634
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,959
Speaker 4: shot right at daylight and they just never knew who

635
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 4: did it right, right, And that's what you know, the

636
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 4: family thinks, probably an accident. I would imagine that's law

637
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 4: enforcement's theory that they didn't talk to me. So I

638
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 4: think that's probably the most common thing. Uh, you know,

639
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 4: I think I'm sure there are cases where it's malicious

640
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 4: and it's a hunting buddy, I think not super often.

641
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 4: I think it's you know a lot of times it's

642
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 4: that accidental shooting that turns into something more because they

643
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 4: don't come forward, they don't confess, they don't they run away.

644
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 2: When was that original it's the one you ran back

645
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,479
Speaker 2: in March, the first episode. Yeah, what was the time

646
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 2: frame that guy got killed?

647
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 3: I want to say it was two thousand and four

648
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 3: to early two thousand.

649
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 2: So yeah, very likely the person that shot that guy

650
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 2: still love it's possible, yeah, I mean yeah, assuming that Yeah, yep.

651
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's very possible they're still alive.

652
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: That's that's and it's.

653
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 4: I you know, I can't imagine living with that because

654
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:32,359
Speaker 4: and that was the other thing is that there is

655
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 4: some evidence that the person walked up to the body

656
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 4: of the victim. So it's not like they did it

657
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 4: and just didn't know and have been living their life,

658
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 4: you know, not knowing. I can't imagine knowing that and

659
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 4: just living living your life.

660
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

661
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 2: Wow, Yeah, that that's what's strange about these some of

662
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 2: these stories is to think that the person that did

663
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 2: it is still just out there.

664
00:34:59,400 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

665
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 4: Well, and I mean that was really the big one

666
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 4: of the big questions with the Paul Hutchinson case episode

667
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 4: two and three of this year.

668
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 3: A guy.

669
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 4: He killed a fifteen year old girl up in Montana

670
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 4: around the Bosman area. He raped her, he killed her,

671
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 4: and then just went on and lived a life in

672
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 4: that area. He became a BLM biologist. He had a

673
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 4: wife and two kids just living in that same area.

674
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 4: And he was eventually found out and right after law

675
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 4: enforcement interviewed him the first time, he went and committed suicide,

676
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 4: which for a lot of people is like the greatest

677
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 4: there was DNA evidence, but the greatest evidence of his

678
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 4: guilt is that, right, And so obviously you know this

679
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 4: is something he's lived with for twenty twenty years, right,

680
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 4: twenty thirty years, and the moment he's like there's any

681
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,280
Speaker 4: kind of accountability, he's.

682
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, how did you get the video for that?

683
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 2: Because in this episode, and I think I texted you

684
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 2: when I watched it, I was on like pins and needles.

685
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 2: Much of the episode is an actual interview that the police.

686
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 1: Did with this guy.

687
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 2: Yep, Yeah, how did you legally get access to that?

688
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 4: So that was and I have to kind of give

689
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 4: credit where credit is due. Forty eight hours covered this story, okay,

690
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 4: and they got that video. They had it in that episode,

691
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,359
Speaker 4: So that's how I knew like it was available in

692
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 4: some way.

693
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:44,359
Speaker 3: Yeah.

694
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 4: Now, it still took me six months because it required

695
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 4: me to submit a request, but then that request had

696
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 4: to go before a judge.

697
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 3: Who then had to approve it. Really mm hmmm.

698
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that wasn't even the hard thing to get,

699
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 4: but yeah, that had to go before a judge, so

700
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 4: I was kind of just in line waiting.

701
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 3: The clerk who helped me was very nice.

702
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 4: She always answered my emails because I was constantly like, hey,

703
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:14,720
Speaker 4: when is this you know, but yeah, it was just waiting.

704
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 4: So so the judge approved it, signed off on it,

705
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 4: the clerk, you know, I asked for a few other

706
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 4: things alongside with that, put it all together and mailed

707
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 4: it to me. I got a flash drive in the

708
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 4: mail with the video on it. Yeah, but yeah, that's

709
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 4: actually that's another kind of big priority for me with

710
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 4: with these episodes is getting stuff like that, and we

711
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 4: actually have law enforcement interviews for that episode, and then

712
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 4: these final three episodes all feature in some way law

713
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 4: enforcement interviews that we got through public records requests.

714
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 2: Public records request so that was evidence that was used

715
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 2: in the court of law.

716
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 3: It would have been if he did true, yeah, he

717
00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 3: was gone.

718
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, but because the case is closed, that we have

719
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 4: access to that, so you have to it. Yeah, So

720
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 4: that's one one kind of benefit. It's kind of like

721
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 4: the way I think of it is if it's an

722
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 4: open case, if it's a cold case, you can a

723
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 4: lot of times get like family and friends will talk

724
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,839
Speaker 4: to you and tell you what happens. Sometimes law enforcement will,

725
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 4: but you don't have access to any of the documents,

726
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 4: any videos, any audio recordings because the case is still open,

727
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 4: and so you can't submit a record's request for a

728
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 4: case that's open because they can't share it when the

729
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 4: case is closed. Family oftentimes, you know, like we said,

730
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 4: doesn't want to talk. But you can get access to

731
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 4: all the case file, you know, everything that law enforcement

732
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 4: had a lot of times, if you're patient, you can

733
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 4: you can get it.

734
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 3: Man.

735
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 1: That's that's some strong journalism.

736
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 3: Well it's been a learning process. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't

737
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 3: realize how.

738
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 4: Time consuming it was going to be because you know,

739
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 4: a lot of times these public records clerks, it's like

740
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 4: get in line, you know, and you're in the back

741
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:03,479
Speaker 4: of the line, and so you just have to wait.

742
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 4: In Park County, Montana, I actually had to open I

743
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,399
Speaker 4: don't know if it's technically a lawsuit, but I had

744
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 4: to like pay money to open a case with the

745
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 4: court in order to get some incident reports from that

746
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 4: Aaron Hedges case. And so you know, it's just a

747
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,800
Speaker 4: and the other thing is a different process for each state.

748
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,800
Speaker 4: Some states are very quick, some states are very slow.

749
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 4: So wow, wild, Yeah, it's been what's your question? I

750
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:34,760
Speaker 4: got two questions. They're connected.

751
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 5: How many of the of your you've done eight episodes

752
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 5: so far, how many of them have been like last

753
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 5: ten years.

754
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 4: Let's see, I think all of them have been. So

755
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 4: there are two that are one from one is from

756
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 4: nineteen seventy five and the other is from nineteen seventy seven.

757
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 3: All of the rest of them.

758
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 4: Have been within the last ten to twenty years, I

759
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 4: would say, Okay, so most of them are more recent.

760
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:08,760
Speaker 4: The older ones, those have their own challenges, right, because

761
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 4: sometimes people have died who like the investigators, you know,

762
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 4: some of the family, and so that can be challenging

763
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 4: in and of itself. But yeah, most of them I

764
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 4: think are more recent.

765
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 5: So as you're like looking, you know, like trying to

766
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 5: find cases, have you noticed any sort of like increase

767
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 5: in events like this happening and the like recently, Because

768
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 5: I know, like around here this summer, two people got

769
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 5: killed in like a state park. Yeah, yeah, that's right,

770
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,240
Speaker 5: And that was just like unfathomable.

771
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 3: Yeah to me, that was the story to happen.

772
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 5: Like whenever that happened, we were actually on our way

773
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 5: to the state park. Really yeah, my uncle called me

774
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 5: and said turn around and and and there's been a

775
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 5: few other events like that recently that like I don't know,

776
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 5: maybe I've just never been paying attention, but it has

777
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,879
Speaker 5: seemed like stuff like this has been happening more.

778
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know, and that's a great question. I

779
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 4: don't know that I've noticed a particular like over time increase.

780
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:18,399
Speaker 4: But it makes sense that you know, as I guess

781
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 4: this depends on where you live in the area of

782
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 4: the country you live in, but you know, some areas

783
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 4: you're seeing a lot more people out in the woods,

784
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 4: and so it would make sense if there's more people

785
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 4: out there, more opportunities for stuff to happen, and so

786
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 4: in that sense, it's probably somewhat of a numbers game.

787
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 4: But like you know, people are people, like people have

788
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 4: been doing horrible things to each other for since people

789
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 4: have been around, and so I don't think there would

790
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:47,879
Speaker 4: necessarily be an uptick for like any other reason than

791
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 4: just more people out there in some areas.

792
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

793
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean you think about the population of

794
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 2: the US is now like three hundred and thirty plus million, yep.

795
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 2: And I mean even back in the nineteen eighties, I

796
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 2: mean it was like two hundred and fifty million or

797
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,280
Speaker 2: two hundred and four so I mean like one hundred million,

798
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 2: almost one hundred million more people in America since like

799
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,360
Speaker 2: I was born, And I mean that's that's just a

800
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 2: lot of a lot of potential conflict. Yeah, so I

801
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 2: would it feels like our murder maybe not murder per capita,

802
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,439
Speaker 2: but there's more murders than there would have been.

803
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:24,359
Speaker 3: I would imagine. Yep.

804
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think so. I think so, and more people.

805
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 2: More people are using, recreating on public lands and doing everything.

806
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:35,720
Speaker 1: Yeah.

807
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

808
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 2: You know, my dad always used to tell me when

809
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 2: I was a little kid, hunting by myself or he

810
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 2: would drop me off and I would be scared of

811
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:44,839
Speaker 2: the dark.

812
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he would always be.

813
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,359
Speaker 2: Son, there's nothing out here to be scared of, which

814
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:50,280
Speaker 2: you should be afraid.

815
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 3: Of as people.

816
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:54,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I like for a while I kicked

817
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 4: around a kind of a tagline for blood Trails that

818
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 4: was something along those lines. Yeah, it's like the people

819
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:01,840
Speaker 4: are the most dangerous whatever.

820
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 3: I don't know.

821
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 2: Well, I think I think that's a realistic idea that

822
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 2: most people have when they're in the woods. Yeah, I mean,

823
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 2: most people aren't afraid of I mean unless you're in

824
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 2: like a hide did and see grizzly area or something.

825
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 2: That's really about the only thing that you should legitimately

826
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 2: be really cautious of. I would say almost in all

827
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,320
Speaker 2: of North America. I mean, other than rattlesnakes and stuff.

828
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 2: But people, Yeah, people would be what you would.

829
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

830
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 5: When I'm out in the woods, like you know, camping

831
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 5: by myself, it's usually usually what I'm worried about. Like

832
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 5: when I hear something walking out there, I'm usually not

833
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:41,800
Speaker 5: too worried about it being like a bear or something.

834
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 5: It's usually the thought that's running through my mind is like,

835
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:46,840
Speaker 5: is that a person?

836
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

837
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:52,400
Speaker 1: Well so bear grease.

838
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

839
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 2: We did, I think our first murder mystery this week

840
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 2: on this this story titled Unusual that the Unusual death

841
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 2: of Melvin Bucky Garrison, and it was pretty it was interesting,

842
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 2: and I kind of told how it happened. But I

843
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:16,240
Speaker 2: was in Okema, Oklahoma actually with eating lunch with Evan

844
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 2: Felker of the Turnpike Troubadors and his good buddy Andrew Stubbs.

845
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: Who was on the episode in the cold open, and.

846
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 2: We're setting around the Shonees Buffet there in Okema, which

847
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:30,839
Speaker 2: if he hadn't been there, you should check it out.

848
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 2: Pretty classy place to get the lowdown, and I believe

849
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:40,800
Speaker 2: Andrew Stubbs was eating his dessert of peaches and cottage

850
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 2: cheese when he said to me, we're talking about some

851
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 2: bear grease outlaw stories. And he was like, now, I

852
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 2: heard about an old outlaw over here that killed the

853
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 2: game warden.

854
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 1: That was just what he said. And I was like,

855
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 1: what do you mean?

856
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 2: And he begins to tell me the story that he

857
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 2: had heard his whole life about melon Bucky Garrison. And

858
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:06,439
Speaker 2: I was intrigued by the story, and immediately that very

859
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 2: day contacted the captain of the First Division of Wildlife

860
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 2: and Oklahoma, this guy named Hank Jinx, and I said,

861
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 2: does the name Bucky Garrison mean anything to you? And

862
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 2: he was like, oh yeah, he knew it immediately and

863
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,919
Speaker 2: had told me, Hey, Clay, I actually was talking about

864
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 2: Bucky Garrison, like very recently. And that's kind of how

865
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,320
Speaker 2: it all That's kind of how it all started. And

866
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 2: so we set up and this is one of these

867
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 2: stories that happened so long ago it was hard to find.

868
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 2: It was almost it was difficult to do it because

869
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 2: most of the people that were actually involved.

870
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,720
Speaker 3: In it are not around anymore.

871
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 2: But it was also a unique story for me because

872
00:45:55,760 --> 00:46:03,360
Speaker 2: a little bit touchy because the suspect, yep is to

873
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:08,719
Speaker 2: the court of law, is completely innocent, and so so

874
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:11,399
Speaker 2: much of the story was about this guy that they

875
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 2: think did it, and that's kind of tricky too.

876
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

877
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:19,400
Speaker 4: Well, I wanted to ask you, because this is something

878
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 4: I think a lot about, is what what was the

879
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 4: thought process behind deciding to not say his name in

880
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 4: the episode.

881
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:32,439
Speaker 1: The God's family still lives right there?

882
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 3: Yeah?

883
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:38,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and it just is hearsay. I mean,

884
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 2: like I kept, I kept like searching for concrete evidence

885
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:51,240
Speaker 2: that this guy had done it, and there's just none

886
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 2: other than everybody over there says that they heard this

887
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 2: guy second hand it basically admit to it.

888
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, you referenced that kind of towards the end,

889
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 4: that he admitted to it.

890
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 2: Well, but I mean, he I don't know if he

891
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 2: did or not. Right, So you're Jordan, you're taking words

892
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 2: out of my mouth. I didn't say he admitted it.

893
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:18,280
Speaker 2: I said I was told by people through the grape

894
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 2: vine that had believed that he admitted it.

895
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:25,720
Speaker 1: But I just feel I just have enough.

896
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 2: Maybe it's it's ill faded hope, but I just feel

897
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 2: like if he had actually admitted it that he would

898
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,360
Speaker 2: have they would have got him.

899
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 1: I mean they you know.

900
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 4: It depends on the because the one of the episodes

901
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 4: in this season is a hunter who went missing and

902
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 4: the game Wardens is up in Maine. Uh. The game

903
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 4: wardens basically tracked down the two guys who they thought

904
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 4: did it, and they just couldn't quite get enough evidence

905
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 4: to put them away. They they basically kidnapped him. He

906
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 4: was he shot a deer, They stole his deer, killed him,

907
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 4: and then you know, left his body somewhere. And one

908
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 4: of the guys allegedly told basically a drinking buddy that

909
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 4: he'd done it, and he explained everything, and this guy

910
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 4: went to the police. The problem was the police were like,

911
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 4: this guy is not a credible person, right, So we

912
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 4: could try to put this guy on the stand and

913
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:31,959
Speaker 4: say and he could say, yeah, you know, he told

914
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 4: me he did it. Here's what he said. But no,

915
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 4: you know, defense is gonna like tear him apart. So

916
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 4: they're like, we need a more credible person. So I

917
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 4: don't know who this guy supposedly told in the Bucky

918
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:46,399
Speaker 4: Garrison story, but it could have been just someone who

919
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:49,799
Speaker 4: you know, no one would take seriously and that could

920
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 4: have been the problem.

921
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 2: Well, bear you listened to it, what was your general impression?

922
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 1: Okay, story, what stood out to you it was?

923
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 3: What was what do you think? Well?

924
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,879
Speaker 1: I think it was pretty.

925
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:06,840
Speaker 3: Well Okay.

926
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:12,439
Speaker 5: I think that the number of people that like new

927
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 5: both you know, the perpetrator and the and Bucky, I

928
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:22,399
Speaker 5: think that speaks a lot to it. Like I feel

929
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 5: like there's a lot of power in just like the

930
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 5: human gut, you know, like people just like knowing, knowing

931
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:32,319
Speaker 5: if something has happened or not, and like kind of

932
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 5: connecting dots that you know, maybe necessarily like yeah, logical.

933
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 5: I think there's a lot of power in that. But

934
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:44,479
Speaker 5: it is really hard to say because I also think

935
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:48,440
Speaker 5: a lot of times like as as like the group

936
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 5: starts to believe it, more and more people start to

937
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:55,360
Speaker 5: believe it, yes, and then eventually it just becomes fact. Yeah,

938
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,760
Speaker 5: And you know, like it's it's hard in this situation

939
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:02,480
Speaker 5: to really determine and like what side of that the

940
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 5: people are on, Like did did the people does everyone

941
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 5: who believes it? Do they just believe it because you know,

942
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 5: they were told that or do they believe it because

943
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 5: they actually knew knew the situation and everything around it,

944
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:19,320
Speaker 5: and can kind of put two and two together.

945
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 6: So it's it's I'm kind of conflicted. I really can't.

946
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 6: I can't. I can't say I can't really.

947
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 2: Well, if you had to today, if you were the

948
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 2: decider and you we had to go off what you

949
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:38,840
Speaker 2: thought from the amount of information you have, did the

950
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 2: suspect do it?

951
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 3: Or did Bucky de a natural death?

952
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 5: I don't think I would say I don't think that

953
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:47,240
Speaker 5: he died a natural death.

954
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:52,800
Speaker 1: But what was what was the His partner's name was Bullet,

955
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 1: Bullet Burns.

956
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:55,320
Speaker 3: Great, yeah, great.

957
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 1: Great name.

958
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:58,319
Speaker 3: Bullet did it? No? No, no, but Bullet said, it's

959
00:50:58,320 --> 00:50:58,839
Speaker 3: a great name.

960
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:04,399
Speaker 2: By the way, Bullet and Bucky, Ye write me a ticket, guys.

961
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I just want to be around y'all for.

962
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 3: A little while.

963
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:11,720
Speaker 5: But Bullet his his theory was that like two people

964
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 5: did it in a boat?

965
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 2: Yeah? Was it?

966
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:14,280
Speaker 1: I couldn't.

967
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 5: I wasn't quite tracking if he thought that the what

968
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 5: everyone else the guy that everyone else thought, okay, he did, okay, Okay,

969
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:27,279
Speaker 5: Well I would I would, I would have to.

970
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:28,280
Speaker 1: Say that I would.

971
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 3: I would probably believe.

972
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 1: That you believe what Bullet thought.

973
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, just because like the waiters being stripped off and

974
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 5: the bullet, like the actual bullet one shot and then

975
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 5: the shotgun being gone. I mean it's just like there's

976
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 5: no way, I mean, like, how else could that have happened?

977
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 3: The waiters thing is very weird. Were they like chest waiters.

978
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:01,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it just would have been there was

979
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 2: no detail. Again, we don't have the case file. The

980
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 2: case file's gone, but you just assume it would have

981
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 2: been a really primitive pair of waiters from the nineteen seventies.

982
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:13,880
Speaker 3: And then so so bullets.

983
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 4: Theory was that he was kind of dragged along by

984
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:22,879
Speaker 4: a boat yep, and that's how the waiters got stripped off. Yeah,

985
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 4: I mean I was trying to figure out how could

986
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 4: that have possibly happened? That's the I mean, that's as

987
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:30,800
Speaker 4: good a theory as I couldn't come up with anything.

988
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 3: So, yeah, I don't know how else.

989
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:38,120
Speaker 2: I thought maybe some waterfowl guys might might give gives

990
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 2: just like a scenario. And I actually saw one comment

991
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 2: today on social media that said he thinks it's possible

992
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,799
Speaker 2: that he got water in his waiters and was just

993
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 2: trying to take him off.

994
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:54,879
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, it's a good like you would you would just.

995
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 2: Be trying to shed yourself of him. Yep, Hey Dad,

996
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 2: how you drowned doing that? And you know water that

997
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 2: deep and you're twenty seven years old and capable and strong. Yeap,

998
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:09,360
Speaker 2: It doesn't make sense. But his whole point was I

999
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 2: think he was trying to take.

1000
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:11,400
Speaker 1: His waiters off.

1001
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 2: But it's still it doesn't make sense of why you would, Yeah,

1002
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:24,320
Speaker 2: why you would? Well, what do you I mean, Jordan,

1003
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:28,840
Speaker 2: what kind of given the same scenario, Yeah, what do

1004
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:29,280
Speaker 2: you think?

1005
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 4: I I just don't think there's enough that I know

1006
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 4: to know, like these details from how they found him,

1007
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 4: It's really hard to come up with a scenario that

1008
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 4: accounts for all these details, like whether he was killed

1009
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:49,239
Speaker 4: by someone else or whether it was an accident. It's

1010
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:51,920
Speaker 4: harder to come up with a scenario if it was

1011
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 4: an accident.

1012
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,320
Speaker 3: Is there's the dirt under his nails? How that happen?

1013
00:53:56,000 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 3: There's the why did he shoot one shot from his derringer? Right?

1014
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:04,240
Speaker 4: So it seems to me, and so I definitely agree

1015
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 4: with Bear that like something happened, probably not an accident,

1016
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:11,840
Speaker 4: but I don't know why without any kind of other details.

1017
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:12,839
Speaker 3: Like, I mean, one thing I was.

1018
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:18,360
Speaker 4: Thinking, was I assume they looked at this the suspects alibi,

1019
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:20,240
Speaker 4: like did you have an alibi? Did you have anyone

1020
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:22,520
Speaker 4: else who could vouch for his whereabouts? And we just

1021
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 4: don't know that.

1022
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 3: Ye, And that's like a really basic kind of that's

1023
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 3: the very first thing you look.

1024
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:29,920
Speaker 4: Another thing I thought was I think you said to

1025
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 4: get out there. It was like one road basically, So

1026
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 4: were there other tire marks or was it just so

1027
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:39,319
Speaker 4: was it used so much that wouldn't have been an

1028
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:42,920
Speaker 4: issue or like not something you could figure out. So

1029
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:44,880
Speaker 4: just stuff like that. There's so much that I just

1030
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 4: you know, it's impossible to say.

1031
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1032
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:52,200
Speaker 2: And that's that's where this as a as a story

1033
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 2: was you know, weak in a way because we just

1034
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 2: didn't have all the data.

1035
00:54:58,680 --> 00:54:59,919
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1036
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 2: When I first started getting into the story, and what

1037
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 2: became most interesting to me was how confident everyone was

1038
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 2: in the story.

1039
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:11,319
Speaker 3: I mean, ed.

1040
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:16,879
Speaker 2: Rodebush and now I've got to he's a competent man,

1041
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:19,239
Speaker 2: like had a really good career with the game and

1042
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:23,799
Speaker 2: fish and it was like a legitimate guy and you

1043
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:27,320
Speaker 2: know here he came ten years later worked with Bullet

1044
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:30,719
Speaker 2: Burns for a long period of time, and Bullet would

1045
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 2: have been first hand, you know, within arm's reach of

1046
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:39,719
Speaker 2: this deal, and bullet Burns was completely convinced of who

1047
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:42,880
Speaker 2: did it and how it happened. And I mean, you

1048
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 2: get the sense that bullet Burns.

1049
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:45,319
Speaker 3: Was a pretty legit guy.

1050
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 1: So you kind of just have to go, man.

1051
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:51,319
Speaker 2: They going back to what Bear said, there must have

1052
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:55,480
Speaker 2: been more than what we had, than the evidence that we.

1053
00:55:55,640 --> 00:56:00,480
Speaker 4: Have, you would think, Because another thing I thought is like,

1054
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:05,719
Speaker 4: were there rumors that this guy killed anyone else? That's

1055
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 4: another question I had because usually it's you know, if

1056
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:11,319
Speaker 4: you do something like that, get away with it, like

1057
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:13,120
Speaker 4: it's either not the first time or it's not the

1058
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:17,759
Speaker 4: last time. But another thing is is the gentleman you

1059
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:22,440
Speaker 4: interviewed who was Bullet's partner, said, I mean he stopped

1060
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 4: this guy thirty.

1061
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 3: Times over the course of his career.

1062
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:29,360
Speaker 4: Yes, and according to his theory, that's what Bucky was doing.

1063
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 3: He was stopping him. It was a wildlife enforcement thing.

1064
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:38,280
Speaker 4: So why why would this guy kill a game warden

1065
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:42,480
Speaker 4: because he was caught poaching when he'd been caught poaching before,

1066
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:45,719
Speaker 4: he was caught poaching after. It just doesn't seem like

1067
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 4: a response that's like consistent with how he behaved for

1068
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:52,880
Speaker 4: the rest of his life.

1069
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:53,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1070
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:56,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've had the same thought.

1071
00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:02,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, like in in and I asked ed about his

1072
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 2: response to the guy. I said, so, the first time

1073
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,560
Speaker 2: you met this guy, what did you think? And he

1074
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:13,799
Speaker 2: said I thought His answer was very straightforward. He said,

1075
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:16,080
Speaker 2: I was looking at his chest six inch circle on

1076
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 2: his chest and saying I was going to put all

1077
00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:19,040
Speaker 2: six of them right there.

1078
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 1: It was going to be him and not me.

1079
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:25,840
Speaker 2: I don't think he said that lightly, like he's not frivolous.

1080
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 2: And this guy Ed was just, I mean, just like

1081
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:33,360
Speaker 2: a veteran, well respected officer. I mean I don't know

1082
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 2: all the details of his career, but I mean, like,

1083
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:39,040
Speaker 2: you know, a good guy.

1084
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 1: I don't think he said that.

1085
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 2: I don't think he would say that about anybody else

1086
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 2: in his career that he dealt with. But I also

1087
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 2: know that if I tell you, Jordan, the guy that's

1088
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 2: about to walk in this door is a murderer. I

1089
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:57,480
Speaker 2: tell you that, whether it's true or not, that's going

1090
00:57:57,560 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 2: to taint the way that you think about this guy

1091
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 2: inner act with him, right.

1092
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:03,440
Speaker 4: And I'm going to tell my buddy later on I

1093
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 4: met this guy, he was acting kind of weird. Right,

1094
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:09,120
Speaker 4: there were these things about him, the way he looked

1095
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 4: at me, right, Yeah, And if you hadn't told me that,

1096
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 4: I might not have thought that. So that we can

1097
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 4: influence how we view other people by just being told

1098
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:18,919
Speaker 4: something about them.

1099
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 3: Who knows whether it's true.

1100
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:27,520
Speaker 2: And my intent was not to defend this wildlife criminal

1101
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 2: that we know is a convicted wildlife criminal.

1102
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 1: My goal was not to defend him at all.

1103
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:37,960
Speaker 2: But I kept thinking about how easy it would be

1104
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:41,720
Speaker 2: to pin something on. And what I thought about was

1105
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 2: back to my own hometown, Louis Delle and Charlie Edwards.

1106
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 2: We did a series years ago called Genuine Outlaws about

1107
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 2: these two guys from my hometown that were notorious.

1108
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:55,880
Speaker 3: Turkey outlaws yep.

1109
00:58:56,760 --> 00:59:00,040
Speaker 2: And I just thought, what if there had been a

1110
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 2: wildlife relates, a game warden murder or a dead game

1111
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:09,360
Speaker 2: warden in the epicenter of their turf. Right, you could

1112
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:12,920
Speaker 2: interviewed one hundred people and said who killed that game warden?

1113
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:17,080
Speaker 2: And they all probably would have blamed those guys for

1114
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 2: no reason other than they were they had animosity towards

1115
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 2: the game and fish. But I mean, you know, so,

1116
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 2: I just I just recognize how easy it would be

1117
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:31,800
Speaker 2: if there was a murder in the epicenter of a

1118
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 2: pretty known outlaws.

1119
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 1: Region that you would just be like, well, I bet

1120
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 1: that guy did it.

1121
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:38,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, that would be easy.

1122
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:40,320
Speaker 4: Well, and like, on the kind of on the other

1123
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:44,120
Speaker 4: side of that argument, we've seen how these kind of

1124
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:50,000
Speaker 4: serial offenders, these serial poachers kind of end up moving

1125
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 4: towards you know, crimes against humans, right, Like it indicates

1126
00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 4: something about their you know, whether they're antisocial, whether they

1127
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:02,240
Speaker 4: have some kind of you know, mental health issue, whether

1128
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:04,960
Speaker 4: you know they're just like I don't care. Obviously, they

1129
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 4: don't care about the law, right And so then if

1130
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:11,439
Speaker 4: they're in a position where you know, they can get

1131
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:14,560
Speaker 4: some advantage by hurting someone else or killing someone else,

1132
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:20,760
Speaker 4: they're kind of used to breaking the law, right And

1133
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:23,520
Speaker 4: this is not like, this is not and this is

1134
01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:26,240
Speaker 4: what I've heard from from game wardens, Like, this is

1135
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 4: not the guy who goes out and like accidentally, you know,

1136
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:32,920
Speaker 4: shoots a deer on private land or even like knowingly

1137
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:37,920
Speaker 4: poaches at night one time. This is like this serial

1138
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 4: wildlife criminal. A lot of times they end up doing

1139
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:46,680
Speaker 4: worse things, and so you know, it kind of fits

1140
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:50,520
Speaker 4: that pattern. This guy sounds like he doesn't care about

1141
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 4: wildlife laws at all.

1142
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's established.

1143
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:57,400
Speaker 4: And so you know, maybe he had something going he

1144
01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:01,320
Speaker 4: really cared about out there, you know, in in in

1145
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:03,919
Speaker 4: the woods, and this game warden was going to mess

1146
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:04,200
Speaker 4: it up.

1147
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 3: I don't know, and something happened.

1148
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 1: Would you have told the guy's name?

1149
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:12,280
Speaker 3: Uh?

1150
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:16,160
Speaker 4: No, I don't think so, I think And that's generally

1151
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:21,160
Speaker 4: been our policy on blood Trails is if they haven't

1152
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 4: been accused, like officially accused, we don't say their real name.

1153
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:31,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, that it, it's it.

1154
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 4: There was one episode where we got into a potential suspect.

1155
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:41,640
Speaker 4: There was some evidence though, along with testimony from family.

1156
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 4: So but but generally speaking, we don't use the real name.

1157
01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 4: And you know, for the same reasons that we talked about,

1158
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:53,280
Speaker 4: like the family still around. There's also you know, legal

1159
01:01:54,720 --> 01:02:00,360
Speaker 4: potential legal issues, right if you defame someone, and you

1160
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 4: know there are protections First Amendment, like we journalists have protections.

1161
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:09,720
Speaker 4: But it's like, do you do you need to get

1162
01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:13,360
Speaker 4: into that potential liability to tell the story? And if

1163
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:15,880
Speaker 4: the answer is no, we could still tell it without

1164
01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:18,919
Speaker 4: that and we could be faithful to the story. Then

1165
01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:23,280
Speaker 4: it's kind of like we don't feel the need to yeah.

1166
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:26,960
Speaker 2: So now okay, but then why did you wonder why

1167
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:28,840
Speaker 2: I didn't tell the story tell a guy's name. I

1168
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:30,360
Speaker 2: thought maybe you were going to be like, oh, yeah,

1169
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:31,720
Speaker 2: I would have told the guy's name.

1170
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:35,040
Speaker 4: No, I just wanted to hear what your rationale was. Yeah, yeah,

1171
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 4: because because I've thought the same thing many times, like

1172
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:39,480
Speaker 4: we do we say the real name?

1173
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:43,040
Speaker 3: Do we not? And so I just was curious what

1174
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 3: you're thinking was.

1175
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:46,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well I just as I heard the story,

1176
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:50,240
Speaker 2: I was like, I mean, this guy was never convicted

1177
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 2: of I mean, they never even tried him. Yeah, they

1178
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:55,880
Speaker 2: never even brought a conviction against him.

1179
01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:58,880
Speaker 3: So it's just like the guy's well, the guy's innocent.

1180
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:04,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, And if you don't know, like if there's no

1181
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:10,160
Speaker 4: reason besides the kind of public rumor, then it's really

1182
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:14,120
Speaker 4: like we can't you know, like defame this guy and

1183
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:16,960
Speaker 4: potentially harm his family for no reason.

1184
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:20,240
Speaker 3: Basically, well, it was.

1185
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 2: It was I wish I could be in that community

1186
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 2: and understand, you know, like what all these people know

1187
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:38,040
Speaker 2: or think or think they know. But because there there's

1188
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:41,080
Speaker 2: got to be and then I know there was more

1189
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 2: back in the day in terms of a criminal case.

1190
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:51,160
Speaker 2: You know, I think about the shotgun and again not

1191
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:55,680
Speaker 2: not trying to. I mean, the shotgun could have been

1192
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 2: mashed down in the mud somehow and they just never

1193
01:03:57,760 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 2: found it. I mean they said they drained the lake

1194
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:04,520
Speaker 2: and took metal detectors out there and stuff. But there's

1195
01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 2: a lot of big questions. But if the if the gun,

1196
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:11,760
Speaker 2: the gun ended up being the biggest thing that screamed

1197
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:16,200
Speaker 2: foul play. Yeah, you know, the missing shotgun that was

1198
01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:17,560
Speaker 2: that was probably the biggest thing.

1199
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:18,080
Speaker 3: Yep.

1200
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:23,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, I wondered if maybe so, why are we so

1201
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 4: certain he had it in the first place, like, like

1202
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:30,000
Speaker 4: not just that he took it out with him, but

1203
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:32,000
Speaker 4: that he had it like in the truck.

1204
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:33,400
Speaker 3: Was it just always in the truck?

1205
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:36,160
Speaker 2: That was Again, this is one of these things that

1206
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:40,400
Speaker 2: just time has erased the details. But I think if

1207
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:44,400
Speaker 2: we had that case file, they would have been one

1208
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:47,000
Speaker 2: hundred percent certain that he had the gun.

1209
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:51,320
Speaker 1: And I think we couldn't say that because surely they

1210
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:51,880
Speaker 1: would have.

1211
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:57,320
Speaker 2: Gone to the family and been like, is Bucky shotgun

1212
01:04:57,320 --> 01:05:00,160
Speaker 2: at the house and they're like, no, he had he

1213
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:03,680
Speaker 2: always carried it in his truck in the boardens, you know.

1214
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:06,320
Speaker 2: Hank Jinks was like, yeah, he would have carried it

1215
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 2: always carried a shotgun.

1216
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:09,160
Speaker 1: They always carried a shotgun.

1217
01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 2: So I mean he had a shotgun, as I understand it,

1218
01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 2: I think we could say he had a shotgun before

1219
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:18,520
Speaker 2: the incident and the family and him and everybody.

1220
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:20,360
Speaker 3: The shotgun was gone after.

1221
01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:23,200
Speaker 4: It because that because I did wonder if maybe someone

1222
01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:27,480
Speaker 4: stole it from his truck, like between like as it

1223
01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 4: was just parked out there, if someone came along and

1224
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:32,840
Speaker 4: they just saw it and they took it from the truck.

1225
01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:36,360
Speaker 2: Well, I mean that would have been a major coincidence though, too,

1226
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 2: youldn't it.

1227
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:41,440
Speaker 3: You know what? It would have It would have for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

1228
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:45,240
Speaker 4: But again it was like I think someone said this, like,

1229
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:49,240
Speaker 4: why would he have taken it in there if he

1230
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:55,400
Speaker 4: was just doing like enforcement stuff. Yeah, right, because like

1231
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:59,080
Speaker 4: it's kind of threatening, you know, Yeah, he had his deringer.

1232
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:02,200
Speaker 4: To me, it was the shot, the shot from the

1233
01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:06,440
Speaker 4: derringer that said foul play more than the shotgun not

1234
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:10,520
Speaker 4: being there, because that's like, we know, he pulled that

1235
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:15,560
Speaker 4: trigger for some reason. Yeah, probably because he was felt

1236
01:06:15,600 --> 01:06:19,280
Speaker 4: threatened for some reason. Yeah, So that to me was

1237
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:23,320
Speaker 4: the biggest indication, like, yeah, something happened because you wouldn't

1238
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:27,680
Speaker 4: just I don't know, probably not just do it for fun, right, Yeah?

1239
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:34,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I'm really excited about this next episode. We

1240
01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:37,320
Speaker 2: are we're going to go into territory that we we've

1241
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:41,840
Speaker 2: never gone into before in Bear Grease, and that we

1242
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 2: are going to How much detail did I give in

1243
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:49,000
Speaker 2: the outro of the podcast? Do you remember what I said?

1244
01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:50,640
Speaker 3: Uh?

1245
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:56,280
Speaker 5: You said game Warden had used deadly force to avoid

1246
01:06:57,000 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 5: getting drowned.

1247
01:06:57,920 --> 01:07:01,000
Speaker 2: Oh, I just spilled the whole thing out. Maybe we

1248
01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:01,880
Speaker 2: can take that back.

1249
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:04,560
Speaker 1: I'm kidding now we.

1250
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:08,280
Speaker 2: Uh uh, you didn't do that, Bear, I did?

1251
01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:09,800
Speaker 1: I spilled the hole.

1252
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:13,120
Speaker 5: Okay, Well, I was just thinking that I'm not totally

1253
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:14,440
Speaker 5: sure you said that or.

1254
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:16,200
Speaker 3: No, I think you're right. I think I think you're right.

1255
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:18,160
Speaker 1: I think I did you know what, Jordan?

1256
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:22,480
Speaker 2: When I first started Bear Grease, one of the first

1257
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:26,680
Speaker 2: real uh feedback that Steve Runella gave me, which was

1258
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:29,240
Speaker 2: really good, was he said, well, you're burying the hook

1259
01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:34,600
Speaker 2: too deep, because sometimes I would go to deep long before.

1260
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:35,920
Speaker 1: You kind of gave the hook.

1261
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:39,880
Speaker 2: And so I think I've found a happy medium because

1262
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:42,880
Speaker 2: sometimes you want to just like tease people along, but

1263
01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:45,120
Speaker 2: then sometimes you gotta just like tell them what happened.

1264
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:45,920
Speaker 3: You know what's funny.

1265
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:50,520
Speaker 4: He he's given also great advice to me for blood Trails.

1266
01:07:50,560 --> 01:07:53,560
Speaker 4: He's been he's been a big part of it. But

1267
01:07:53,640 --> 01:07:56,680
Speaker 4: he gave me the opposite advice. He was like, Jordan,

1268
01:07:56,720 --> 01:07:59,680
Speaker 4: you're giving away too much. You're giving away too much

1269
01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:02,600
Speaker 4: too early. Really tease them a little more. Yeah, give

1270
01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:05,200
Speaker 4: them a reason to keep listening. So I guess we

1271
01:08:05,320 --> 01:08:08,760
Speaker 4: just have opposite tendencies there, Yes, And that could be

1272
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:12,400
Speaker 4: just from you know, doing journalism. You put everything at

1273
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:15,040
Speaker 4: the top, right, like the first three paragraphs is going

1274
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:17,920
Speaker 4: to be all the most important information. So that's just

1275
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:20,400
Speaker 4: the model that I've written in for so long. It

1276
01:08:20,520 --> 01:08:24,519
Speaker 4: was hard to kind of save some you know, keep

1277
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:25,360
Speaker 4: some things back.

1278
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:25,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1279
01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:29,320
Speaker 2: That's funny because yeah, I would have been opposite that.

1280
01:08:29,439 --> 01:08:30,280
Speaker 1: If it was up to me.

1281
01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:32,720
Speaker 2: On every bear grease, you wouldn't hear the hook till

1282
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:35,519
Speaker 2: the very last second, and then you would just be like,

1283
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:38,479
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, I couldn't I have been on pins

1284
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:41,040
Speaker 2: and needles this whole time. But you kind of gotta,

1285
01:08:41,280 --> 01:08:43,920
Speaker 2: you kind of lead them in and then you kind

1286
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:46,160
Speaker 2: of got to tell them like what's going on? Yeah,

1287
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:48,960
Speaker 2: and then so yeah.

1288
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:49,360
Speaker 1: So yeah.

1289
01:08:49,400 --> 01:08:52,360
Speaker 2: So this next episode, though, we we interview a game

1290
01:08:52,400 --> 01:08:57,320
Speaker 2: warden who h tells us, tells us the story of

1291
01:08:57,400 --> 01:09:01,040
Speaker 2: having to use deadly force on someone that's trying to

1292
01:09:01,080 --> 01:09:04,479
Speaker 2: drow him. So that's all I'll say. It's it's pretty interesting.

1293
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:10,439
Speaker 2: Wild story, it is, Yeah, it is. It's a wild story. Well,

1294
01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:15,559
Speaker 2: so after this comes out, there'll be one more episode

1295
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:16,920
Speaker 2: of Blood Trails for this year.

1296
01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:22,920
Speaker 4: Last episode comes out December eighteenth. Okay, now there's a chance.

1297
01:09:24,560 --> 01:09:27,559
Speaker 4: Well yeah, last episode comes out December eighteenth. We'll leave

1298
01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:30,880
Speaker 4: it at that. So okay, yep, yep. Thursdays is when

1299
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:32,639
Speaker 4: is when they come out every Thursday.

1300
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:36,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they have been coming out every Thursday for

1301
01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:37,040
Speaker 2: like eight weeks.

1302
01:09:37,120 --> 01:09:37,960
Speaker 3: Yep. Exactly.

1303
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:40,280
Speaker 1: When you run your seasons, you just run them all together.

1304
01:09:40,720 --> 01:09:41,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1305
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:46,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that model for a for a podcast. Yeah,

1306
01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:51,000
Speaker 2: you know, we we five years ago just went with

1307
01:09:51,120 --> 01:09:54,000
Speaker 2: a we're going to just have an episode every week,

1308
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:57,240
Speaker 2: you know, and so but I feel like you might

1309
01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:00,679
Speaker 2: that model gives you time to probably make some really

1310
01:10:00,760 --> 01:10:01,800
Speaker 2: quality episodes.

1311
01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:02,720
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1312
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:05,479
Speaker 4: I mean I couldn't because we thought about that too,

1313
01:10:05,640 --> 01:10:07,960
Speaker 4: and it's just too much of a lift for me

1314
01:10:08,160 --> 01:10:13,160
Speaker 4: to do that, you know, that many episodes over that

1315
01:10:13,240 --> 01:10:15,960
Speaker 4: amount of time because I could work ahead, right, but

1316
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:18,840
Speaker 4: then I would I wouldn't be able to keep up, Yes,

1317
01:10:18,920 --> 01:10:21,280
Speaker 4: because it takes so long to you know, like I say,

1318
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:22,360
Speaker 4: get those public records.

1319
01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:23,760
Speaker 3: Sometimes it's six months. Yeah.

1320
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:26,920
Speaker 4: I was trying to talk with an investigator in Georgia.

1321
01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:31,760
Speaker 4: It took six months for him to get approval from

1322
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:34,760
Speaker 4: his agency, and then like all the whole process, it

1323
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:37,720
Speaker 4: just it takes too long. So we do them by

1324
01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:40,880
Speaker 4: seasons because you know, we try to just make sure

1325
01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:44,000
Speaker 4: the quality is there and I've at least tried to

1326
01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:45,840
Speaker 4: talk to all the relevant people.

1327
01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:51,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, Well cool man, Well, anything else you need

1328
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:54,040
Speaker 2: to tell us about Blood Trails.

1329
01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:56,360
Speaker 1: There's a there's a YouTube version of it.

1330
01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:59,719
Speaker 4: There is, Yeah, you can it's it's up on YouTube.

1331
01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:02,759
Speaker 4: There's a video version of the podcast. It's not quite

1332
01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:07,400
Speaker 4: dateline yet, but we're we're we're working on it, but

1333
01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:09,720
Speaker 4: people seem to really like it, so and like, if

1334
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:13,519
Speaker 4: you're curious about what these people look like, that's a

1335
01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:15,040
Speaker 4: great way to watch it.

1336
01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:15,920
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1337
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:20,200
Speaker 4: There's also, uh, we have a web page for each episode,

1338
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:23,639
Speaker 4: so at the meat Eater dot com. Uh uh slash

1339
01:11:23,720 --> 01:11:26,600
Speaker 4: Blood Trails there's a case file for each of the

1340
01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:31,360
Speaker 4: episodes where we post images, you know, links to to listen, uh,

1341
01:11:31,400 --> 01:11:33,840
Speaker 4: and then we have an email so it's blood Trails

1342
01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:36,360
Speaker 4: at the meat Eater dot com. If you know you

1343
01:11:36,479 --> 01:11:38,479
Speaker 4: have a story you think we should cover, or a

1344
01:11:38,520 --> 01:11:42,120
Speaker 4: tip from a story that we've already covered, feel free

1345
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:44,680
Speaker 4: to to send that in and I read all of

1346
01:11:44,680 --> 01:11:46,559
Speaker 4: it and try to respond to as much as I can.

1347
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:50,280
Speaker 2: Cool man, that's great. Well, you're doing a great job

1348
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:51,960
Speaker 2: with it, you really are. I know it makes a

1349
01:11:52,040 --> 01:11:56,040
Speaker 2: lot of work, and yeah, you're doing a great job.

1350
01:11:56,080 --> 01:11:59,400
Speaker 2: I look forward to when when Blood Trails solve some

1351
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:01,040
Speaker 2: crack some case.

1352
01:12:01,640 --> 01:12:03,800
Speaker 3: That'll be cool. Yeah, that would be very cool. That'd

1353
01:12:03,800 --> 01:12:04,439
Speaker 3: be very cool. Yeah.

1354
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:07,080
Speaker 4: No, I just I've been blown away by the response.

1355
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:09,200
Speaker 4: People seem to really like it, and I just appreciate

1356
01:12:09,320 --> 01:12:11,080
Speaker 4: everyone who's who's listened to it.

1357
01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:13,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, so.

1358
01:12:15,439 --> 01:12:19,479
Speaker 2: The Meat Eater Live Tour is starting very soon after

1359
01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:23,160
Speaker 2: this episode comes out. I think there's still tickets available

1360
01:12:23,320 --> 01:12:30,719
Speaker 2: in Birming, Birmingham, Nashville, Memphis, Dallas, and Austin. I think

1361
01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:35,439
Speaker 2: there's still tickets. The only the only town Jordan that

1362
01:12:35,479 --> 01:12:38,680
Speaker 2: there's not tickets left is Fadville, Arkansas.

1363
01:12:38,880 --> 01:12:41,240
Speaker 3: There you go, come on, you go coming out to

1364
01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:42,519
Speaker 3: see well.

1365
01:12:42,360 --> 01:12:45,960
Speaker 1: I mean, well, I'm not I'm not, That's not what

1366
01:12:46,040 --> 01:12:50,559
Speaker 1: I'm insinuating. Just meat eat. I'm kind of bragging on this.

1367
01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:54,479
Speaker 2: They asked me, or I told them a long time ago,

1368
01:12:54,520 --> 01:12:55,880
Speaker 2: it is like, if we do a live tour, you

1369
01:12:55,960 --> 01:12:57,360
Speaker 2: got to come to Fadeville, Arkansas.

1370
01:12:57,439 --> 01:12:57,759
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1371
01:12:57,800 --> 01:13:00,000
Speaker 2: And so when they were putting this live tour together,

1372
01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:05,320
Speaker 2: one of the higher ups, the big men called me

1373
01:13:05,320 --> 01:13:07,160
Speaker 2: in was like, I think we should come to Fadeville.

1374
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:09,280
Speaker 3: And I was like, you gotta come to Fadeville.

1375
01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:12,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And sure enough, in three days the shows

1376
01:13:12,720 --> 01:13:13,200
Speaker 2: sold out.

1377
01:13:13,640 --> 01:13:16,040
Speaker 1: Keep thanking the people of Arkansas.

1378
01:13:16,080 --> 01:13:17,360
Speaker 3: Good folks that will.

1379
01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:19,760
Speaker 2: Come see Brent. You know, Brent's on a live tour.

1380
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:24,960
Speaker 2: So and then yeah, Bary'll be there. It's kind of

1381
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:27,200
Speaker 2: a secret. I'm gonna let it out though. Bary'll be there.

1382
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:31,360
Speaker 2: And then we'll have one other secret guest that you'll

1383
01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:34,000
Speaker 2: be very glad is there. All right, So it's going

1384
01:13:34,280 --> 01:13:38,800
Speaker 2: Faidville and there there's there's secret guests at every location.

1385
01:13:39,240 --> 01:13:41,240
Speaker 3: You know, so they're all going to be fun. Yeah,

1386
01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:43,479
Speaker 3: all gonna be fun. Yeah, for sure, for sure.

1387
01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:45,200
Speaker 1: You coming to one in Dallas.

1388
01:13:45,240 --> 01:13:46,880
Speaker 3: I'm gonna try. Yeah, I'm gonna try.

1389
01:13:46,920 --> 01:13:50,240
Speaker 4: It's like three days before Christmas, but I'm definitely gonna

1390
01:13:50,240 --> 01:13:50,880
Speaker 4: try to be stuff.

1391
01:13:51,080 --> 01:13:53,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's a Christmas it's a Christmas theme.

1392
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:58,160
Speaker 4: Hey, if if you're off work, you know, come out

1393
01:13:58,439 --> 01:14:01,640
Speaker 4: have some fun. Yeah, and your friends, Like, sounds like

1394
01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:02,200
Speaker 4: a great time.

1395
01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:08,280
Speaker 2: I've never met anybody that was disappointed. I'm sure there there.

1396
01:14:08,479 --> 01:14:11,040
Speaker 2: It's possible that someone would have been disappointed that wouldn't

1397
01:14:11,040 --> 01:14:12,000
Speaker 2: have contacted me.

1398
01:14:12,680 --> 01:14:13,759
Speaker 1: Just vibe.

1399
01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:17,960
Speaker 2: The vibe that I've gotten from every single live event,

1400
01:14:18,280 --> 01:14:20,640
Speaker 2: live turur that I've been on has been that just

1401
01:14:20,640 --> 01:14:23,360
Speaker 2: people have a great time, kind of a surprising good time.

1402
01:14:23,479 --> 01:14:25,479
Speaker 3: Yeah you know. Yeah, well yeah they do a great

1403
01:14:25,560 --> 01:14:26,080
Speaker 3: job with them.

1404
01:14:26,200 --> 01:14:27,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, they're fun.

1405
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:28,120
Speaker 3: They're fun.

1406
01:14:28,280 --> 01:14:32,080
Speaker 1: So all right, well, thanks Jordan for coming up.

1407
01:14:32,200 --> 01:14:34,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for having me. It's good to good to

1408
01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:35,200
Speaker 3: out here.

1409
01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:39,360
Speaker 2: Everybody can check out Blood Trails now the YouTube channel

1410
01:14:39,479 --> 01:14:41,680
Speaker 2: is it the podcast Meet Eater podcast?

1411
01:14:42,360 --> 01:14:43,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, the mutuo.

1412
01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:47,400
Speaker 4: You have like a separate YouTube channel for the podcasts,

1413
01:14:47,880 --> 01:14:48,559
Speaker 4: so it's on there.

1414
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:52,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right there. Podcasts. Yeah, he just starts that

1415
01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:53,640
Speaker 3: it'll come up Blood.

1416
01:14:53,360 --> 01:14:56,360
Speaker 1: Trail all right, well, keep the wild places wild

1417
01:14:56,360 --> 01:14:57,559
Speaker 3: Because that's where the bears live.