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Speaker 1: Recording, You're about to enter the arena.

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Speaker 2: And join the battle to save America with your host,

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Speaker 2: Sean Parnell. There were many times in Afghanistan when I

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Speaker 2: contemplated life and death. In fact, as my combat deployment

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Speaker 2: wore on, I thought about it more and more, especially

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Speaker 2: in those quiet moments just back from a mission cycle

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Speaker 2: in my hooge, by myself alone with my thoughts. I

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Speaker 2: survived today. Will I survive tomorrow? If you focus on

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Speaker 2: that question too much, will I survive tomorrow? It will

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Speaker 2: drive you crazy. I've seen men become so obsessed with

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Speaker 2: it that it handicaps your ability to not just operate

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Speaker 2: effectively in the field, but everything. It colors how you think.

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Speaker 2: Pervasive egg anxiety and fear take over. It's utterly paralyzing.

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Speaker 2: So many of us learned to stop asking it all together.

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Speaker 2: In fact, many of us had to convince ourselves that

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Speaker 2: we were dead already, that it was only a matter

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Speaker 2: of time and a question of how it would happen.

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Speaker 2: When this reality set in, we functioned better in combat.

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Speaker 2: Fear didn't color our decisions. There was no hesitation. The

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Speaker 2: only thing that mattered was the man to your left

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Speaker 2: and right and doing everything you could to make it

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Speaker 2: back to the base home alive and win the day.

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Speaker 2: About six months into my tour, I started thinking a

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Speaker 2: lot about legacy. What would happen if I die? How

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Speaker 2: would my family and friends react. They'd be sad for

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Speaker 2: a time, sure, but after a while would they forget

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Speaker 2: about me? Would they miss me? I was killed in action.

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Speaker 2: I had no kids to carry on without me to

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Speaker 2: help keep my memory alive. Death seemed so final, and

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Speaker 2: I will admit that that prospect scared the hell out

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Speaker 2: of me. Then I started thinking about how many thousands

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Speaker 2: of Americans had these same exact thoughts as me. Those

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Speaker 2: who came before me who served on hundreds of battlefields

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Speaker 2: all over the world in defense of freedom, Those men

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Speaker 2: and women who were forever changed by their experience of

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Speaker 2: war who then had to somehow come home and survive

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Speaker 2: and make something of themselves. Or those Americans who never

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Speaker 2: made it home. God rest their souls. There were so

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Speaker 2: many times I tried to process the enormity of this,

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Speaker 2: both in Afghanistan and after I came home. I have

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Speaker 2: to say I still think about it. The legacy of

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Speaker 2: those who came before me and in my generation, the

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Speaker 2: sacrifices those men and women made on the altar of

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Speaker 2: freedom for us and the idea that we truly stand

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Speaker 2: on the shoulders of giants, and we should remember them

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Speaker 2: in that great sacrifice. We should do everything we can

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Speaker 2: to pass on their legacy to the next generation as

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Speaker 2: well as to ensure that their memory lives on forever.

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Speaker 2: And my next guest is someone who understands this very

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Speaker 2: very well, because this legacy is in her blood. Her

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Speaker 2: grandfather was a pilot in World War Two. Her father

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Speaker 2: was in the eighty second Airborne Infantry and as a pilot.

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Speaker 2: Her mother is a pilot. She's one of three sisters,

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Speaker 2: all of whom served and are pilots. Her name is

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Speaker 2: Amber Smith. Amber is a Kiowa Warrior helicopter pilot who

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Speaker 2: served in Iraq and Afghanistan at the height of the

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Speaker 2: Wars and is the best selling author of the book

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Speaker 2: Danger Close. More recently, she served in the Pentagon as

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Speaker 2: Under Secretary of Defense for public Outreach. She is a

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Speaker 2: warrior through and through in one hell of an American.

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Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, I hope you enjoy our conversation Amber Smith.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Battleground. Thank you so much for joining me.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. It's so great

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Speaker 1: to be on with you again.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is crazy. We were just talking about prior

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Speaker 2: to going to recording, about how we've known each other

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Speaker 2: for ten years. Isn't that crazy?

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Speaker 1: It's crazy that has been that long. That's why I

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Speaker 1: was saying, like again, like I feel like we've spoke together,

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Speaker 1: we've done media together, We've done like all sorts of

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Speaker 1: different advocacy work together, and so so yeah, be on

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Speaker 1: your podcast now, which I'm so excited that you have launched.

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Speaker 1: It's just awesome to be on with you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is kind of crazy. We all have have

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Speaker 2: had sort of an insane journey over the last ten

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Speaker 2: years to get to this point. And I was thinking

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Speaker 2: about you in prep for this interview because I do know,

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Speaker 2: as we talked about, I have known you for ten years,

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Speaker 2: and you're a pretty incredible person. You know, you're competitive,

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Speaker 2: you're driven. You were a gymnast and then you were

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Speaker 2: a cheerleader, and then you made the transition to attack

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Speaker 2: helicopter pilot for the military and then a best selling author.

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Speaker 2: But you have this dog, this bulldog named Kaiowa, who

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Speaker 2: every picture that you take of this dog looks like

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Speaker 2: it can barely breathe on its own, So it sort

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Speaker 2: of turns the whole narrative of people buy dogs. People

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Speaker 2: buy dogs like they are on their head.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think there's some truth to the she can

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Speaker 1: barely breathe part of it. And if you hear some snoring,

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Speaker 1: that's probably because she's laying down right next to me.

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Speaker 1: But she's awesome. She's a bulldog. She's the like laziest

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Speaker 1: breed out there. So there's I want to say that

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Speaker 1: there's not much work. But for any bulldog owner you

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Speaker 1: will know that, like, bulldogs are very high maintenance, especially

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Speaker 1: for how lazy they are. But yeah, she got the

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Speaker 1: name Kaiowa obviously because I used to fly Kaiwa's in

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Speaker 1: the Army and I had to keep the legacy going

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Speaker 1: because I got her the same year that the Army

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Speaker 1: decommissioned the Kiowa.

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Speaker 2: So so I want to talk about legacies here in

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Speaker 2: a second. But how do you, as a competitive driven

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Speaker 2: person get a dog that's so lazy.

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Speaker 1: So I lived in Washington, D C. When I first

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Speaker 1: got the dog, and I was like, I need you know.

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Speaker 1: I was actually working at the Pentagon when I got her,

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Speaker 1: and I was like I need a dog that is

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Speaker 1: going to be okay with you know, because when you

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Speaker 1: work in the Pentagon, you work very long hours. And

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Speaker 1: I was like, I need a dog that is going

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Speaker 1: to be okay with getting loss of sleep, and bulldog

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Speaker 1: fits exactly what I was looking for.

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Speaker 2: Well, Kai, it's awesome though.

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Speaker 1: Bulldogs are so much work, but they're such like loyal, loving,

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Speaker 1: stubborn dogs.

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Speaker 2: Well, you talked about legacy and what I found remarkable

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Speaker 2: because I read You've got this book out it's called

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Speaker 2: Danger Close, and I read that book a long time ago,

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Speaker 2: and one of the things that struck me very early

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Speaker 2: on in reading that book is that you come from

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Speaker 2: a family of pilots. I think it's remarkable, So correct

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Speaker 2: me if I'm wrong. You had a grandfather that flew

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Speaker 2: in World War Two?

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Speaker 1: Right, I do. My grandfather he flew in the Army

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Speaker 1: Air Corps in World War Two. He flew the aerial

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Speaker 1: routes between Northern Africa in Europe, and he also flew

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Speaker 1: some super early on helicopter prototypes. After the war, he

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Speaker 1: went on to fly for the airlines. But that's really

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Speaker 1: where the aviation bug began in my family. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: he kind of started it all.

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Speaker 2: So you had a grandfather who is a pilot. Your

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Speaker 2: mom is also a pilot, right.

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Speaker 1: Your dad, my dad was a pilot for a PanAm

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Speaker 1: My mom she was a pilot. She was a civilian pilot.

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Speaker 1: Women were still very rare back in the sixties when

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Speaker 1: she was flying sixties and then in the seventies, and

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Speaker 1: she got all of her ratings up to CF double

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Speaker 1: I Certified Flight Instructor for Instruments and she loved it

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Speaker 1: as well. It was like a hobby of hers that

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Speaker 1: she would do whenever she could save up the money

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Speaker 1: to afford the flight hours, because aviation is a very

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Speaker 1: expensive hobby. And then, I mean, it kind of comes

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Speaker 1: with no surprise that they raised three we wanted to

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Speaker 1: become pilots ourselves. We grew up around it. We always

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Speaker 1: talked about aviation growing up. It was like just natural conversation.

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Speaker 1: My dad would talk to us about how important airspeed is.

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Speaker 1: He would talk to us about learning how to read

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Speaker 1: a sectional, and we're talking at like a young age,

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Speaker 1: and we as kids, like like some people go camping

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Speaker 1: with their parents. Like we learned about every aspect of

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Speaker 1: aviation and from like you know, from when we could

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Speaker 1: talk up until we were getting our aviation licenses. So

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Speaker 1: I think that had the biggest impact on us in

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Speaker 1: terms of moving forward and pursuing aviation.

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Speaker 2: So clearly, so clearly there was a legacy of aviators

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Speaker 2: of pilots in your family. Were you thinking about that

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Speaker 2: legacy when you joined the military in two thousand and one.

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Speaker 1: You know, I don't think I thought of it as

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Speaker 1: a legacy. I thought how amazing it was that I

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Speaker 1: got to experience something that people had previous, like through

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Speaker 1: generations of my family had got to experience. I know,

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Speaker 1: I got to experience it completely different. My dad was

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Speaker 1: in the airborne infantry in the eighty second, so like

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Speaker 1: my experience in aviation was much different than his infantry

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Speaker 1: experience in the sixties. So, but also my mom. I know,

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Speaker 1: my mom, like I told you, she was very interested

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Speaker 1: in aviation. And she told me when I started to

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Speaker 1: go down the path of after nine to eleven and

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Speaker 1: being like I think, I know now how I can

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Speaker 1: apply my patriotism, my love of country and and love

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Speaker 1: of aviation and put it all together and become a

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Speaker 1: helicopter pilot. And so when I started pursuing that, my mom,

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Speaker 1: I remember her saying just how amazing she thought it

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Speaker 1: was that her three daughters had the opportunity to pursue this,

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Speaker 1: because she didn't have that opportunity when she was interested

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Speaker 1: in aviation. And she just thought it was remarkable and

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Speaker 1: very cool that we were getting to do this. And

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Speaker 1: so I remember that, and I sort of never took

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Speaker 1: that opportunity for granted, and I appreciated that I was

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Speaker 1: where I was in life where I was able to

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Speaker 1: become a helicopter pilot because it was still fairly new.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So was it nine to eleven that was the

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Speaker 2: catalyst for you to join?

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Speaker 1: It was I had loved the military because growing up,

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Speaker 1: like I said, with my dad's stories of serving in

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Speaker 1: the army and then aviation, I never knew for the

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Speaker 1: military was something that sounded cool and would be amazing

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Speaker 1: if I ever pulled the trigger and decided to go

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Speaker 1: for But it was nine to eleven that was like,

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Speaker 1: all right, I want to serve my country. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to wait. You know, I was in college when

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Speaker 1: it happened, and I was like, I don't want to

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Speaker 1: wait any longer. I feel like it's crystal clear for

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Speaker 1: me now. I want to serve my country, and I

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Speaker 1: feel like the best way that I can do that

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Speaker 1: is through my love of aviation and my experience with aviation,

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Speaker 1: and that's the proper path for me.

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Speaker 2: But you had to know. You had to know Amber

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Speaker 2: that well, first of all, talk about nine. Let's talk

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Speaker 2: about nine to eleven for a second. If you lived

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Speaker 2: through that, I feel like it affected you to the

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Speaker 2: very core of who you are as a person, and

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Speaker 2: the very core you know. I can even to this day.

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Speaker 2: I mean, oh gosh, like over twenty years ago, I

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Speaker 2: could tell you exactly where I was, what I was doing,

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Speaker 2: what I had for dinner the night before and breakfast

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Speaker 2: that morning, what all my roommates in college were doing.

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Speaker 2: And I remember everything every second of that day. And

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Speaker 2: I think it's because nine to eleven sort of engages

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Speaker 2: engaged you all of your senses, but also on a

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Speaker 2: very deep seated emotional level. And Amber, you had to

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Speaker 2: know that when you when you volunteer to serve this

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Speaker 2: country after nine to eleven, and you were going into

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Speaker 2: you wanted to be an aviator, So you wanted to

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Speaker 2: I guess you wanted to join the army, and that

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Speaker 2: meant that you were probably going to fly rotary wing helicopters.

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Speaker 2: You had to know that you were going to be

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Speaker 2: going to combat in some way, shape or form, right,

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Speaker 2: I did.

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Speaker 1: And I think it was nine to eleven for me.

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Speaker 1: It was the first time that I realized that the

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Speaker 1: freedoms that we love and enjoy every single day are

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Speaker 1: trying to be taken from us. You know, those freedoms

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Speaker 1: are threats to a lot of groups and adversaries around

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Speaker 1: the world. And so in my very early adult age,

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Speaker 1: it was the first time that I had that aha

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Speaker 1: moment of like, this can be taken away. This isn't

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Speaker 1: something we should be taken for granted, as we saw

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Speaker 1: with what happened for nine to eleven, and I wanted

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Speaker 1: to give back to the country that had given me

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Speaker 1: all of that. And I knew that becoming a helicopter

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Speaker 1: pilot in the Army, I would likely, you know, head

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Speaker 1: to war sooner or later, and I did. I ended

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Speaker 1: up actually going to boot camp two thousand and three

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Speaker 1: and then straight from there into flight school at Fort Rocker, Alabama,

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Speaker 1: and then I got Fort Campbell, Kentucky, the Hunter and

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Speaker 1: First Airborne Division for my first duty station, and I

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Speaker 1: was deploying within the year of me being there to Iraq.

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Speaker 2: What's remarkable about that is that if you think back

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Speaker 2: at that time, so you and I are essentially the

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Speaker 2: same age, had such a similar experience and reason for

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Speaker 2: why we joined the military back then. Did you have

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Speaker 2: any conversation with your parents after nine to eleven when

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Speaker 2: you made that decision.

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Speaker 1: So I think I have an extremely rare sort of

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Speaker 1: experience with my parents with joining the military, because I

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Speaker 1: know so many people that I've talked to had the

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Speaker 1: exact opposite of what I did. My parents were so

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Speaker 1: unbelievably supportive. My dad, from serving himself, understood and knew

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Speaker 1: exactly what the military did for an individual and how

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Speaker 1: much it helped you grow and grow up and become

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Speaker 1: an adult, and sort of the lessons that you learn

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Speaker 1: while you're in the military and about other people and

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Speaker 1: the camaraderie and what it actually means to serve, to

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Speaker 1: serve something greater than yourself and be a part of

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Speaker 1: that brotherhood, in that sisterhood. So they knew. My parents knew,

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Speaker 1: and they were very supportive. I think the whole war

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Speaker 1: aspect of it was nerve racking to them because that

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Speaker 1: was new and obviously a child like I now that

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Speaker 1: I'm a parent myself, Like, I can't even imagine what

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Speaker 1: that is like. But in terms of military service and

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Speaker 1: wanting to go fly in the military and serve my country,

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Speaker 1: I could not have had a better support structure for

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Speaker 1: them being proud and like happy that I was choosing

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Speaker 1: that path.

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Speaker 2: They had to be superheroes because you know, you said,

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Speaker 2: you're a mother now and I'm a father, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: I can't imagine having those conversations with my children knowing

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Speaker 2: that they're going to be going into the fight, you know,

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Speaker 2: wanting to volunteer for the military in a time of war.

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Speaker 2: But what's kind of unbelievable about your circumstance and unique

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Speaker 2: to you is that you weren't the only one. You

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Speaker 2: had two sisters that also joined the military and found

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Speaker 2: themselves serving in a time of war. Am I right

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Speaker 2: about this as well?

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Speaker 1: You're right. My older sister, Kelly, she was a C

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Speaker 1: one thirty pilot for the California inter National Guard multiple deployments.

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Speaker 1: I actually got to spend some time with her in Afghanistan,

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Speaker 1: which was crazy.

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Speaker 2: That's crazy, it's crazy crazy. I mean, for your parents

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Speaker 2: to have to bear that birden of three first of

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Speaker 2: all women in the military in a post nine to

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Speaker 2: eleven world in Iraq, and I get two wars raging,

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Speaker 2: two wars raging at the same time. Did you ever ask?

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Speaker 1: So in two thousand and eight they had twice two

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Speaker 1: daughters in the same combat zone. So I got to

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Speaker 1: see Kelly in two thousand and eight, I was in Afghanistan.

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Speaker 1: I was in RC East in Jalalabad, and then and

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Speaker 1: she was based out of Bagram and she got to

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Speaker 1: fly into Jalalabad and we got to see each other there.

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Speaker 1: And then I got to see her up in Bagram

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Speaker 1: a couple of times. And then at the end of

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Speaker 1: my deployment the end of two thousand and eight, my

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Speaker 1: sister Lacey, we did the RIPTOA with her unit, and

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Speaker 1: so she you know, her unit was replacing ours, and

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Speaker 1: so we had about like a ten overlap, I want

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Speaker 1: to say, and it was crazy, Like I remember that

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Speaker 1: that was really hard for me because when Kelly left,

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Speaker 1: she said goodbye to me so to speak, like I

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Speaker 1: was still in country and she was leaving. And when

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Speaker 1: Lacey was there, she was a helicopter she was a

301
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Speaker 1: black Hawk helicopter pilot in the Hunter first as well,

302
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Speaker 1: and Obviously I could relate more to her mission because

303
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Speaker 1: I was a helicopter pilot as well, and I sort

304
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Speaker 1: of knew what the year had been like for me

305
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Speaker 1: and some of the danger that exists as a helicopter

306
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Speaker 1: pilot in Afghanistan, And so I was like, it was

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Speaker 1: very hard for me to say goodbye to her, knowing

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Speaker 1: that I was leaving her there for an entire year

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Speaker 1: and what she could potentially face. So it was amazing

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Speaker 1: to see both of them in country, but it was

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Speaker 1: also like, it was crazy to leave my sister there.

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Speaker 2: How did you do it?

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Speaker 1: When I came home?

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Speaker 2: How did you say goodbye to her?

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Speaker 1: It was really rough. She came, she she came to

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Speaker 1: like the holding area for us to get onto the plane,

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Speaker 1: like our final departure before they lock you down. She

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Speaker 1: like came to me there, and it was you know,

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Speaker 1: I tried to give her the big sister pep talk

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Speaker 1: about like you get in this situation, like do this,

321
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Speaker 1: do this, do this, and yeah, it was just like

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Speaker 1: how do you put it into words to like leave

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Speaker 1: a family member behind in a combat zone. That is

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Speaker 1: like for me, Afghanistan was a much harder deployment than

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Speaker 1: Iraq was and I knew that that she was going

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Speaker 1: into that, and she was an RC East as well,

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Speaker 1: so it was tough. It was. It was tough.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was I know what it's like. Yeah, well listen,

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Speaker 2: I know what it's like. And yeah, you're leaving a

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Speaker 2: family member there. You know how dangerous it is. And

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Speaker 2: it sounded like you said she made it back.

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Speaker 1: She did. I was grateful, but I know it was

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Speaker 1: a rough deployment, as it was for most people during

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Speaker 1: that time frame. You know, it's it's combat. It sucks,

335
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Speaker 1: you see some things that it's war, war as war

336
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Speaker 1: as hell, and so yeah, it was a rough deployment

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Speaker 1: for everybody. And but like I said, like so grateful,

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Speaker 1: she came back safe and sound, and I'm really proud

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Speaker 1: of her.

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Speaker 2: Do you ever talk about your experiences in Afghanistan or

341
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Speaker 2: in combat together.

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Speaker 1: So when she came home from Afghanistan, we kind of

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Speaker 1: definitely had that connection. And I know there were some

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Speaker 1: very she did. Some of her mission was like a

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Speaker 1: METAVAC pilot as well, and so it's different than what

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Speaker 1: we did as Kiowa pilots. So we got to talk

347
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Speaker 1: through all of that, and I do think it was

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Speaker 1: helpful to have sort of relatable experiences where usually the

349
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Speaker 1: people that you talk about are people who have you

350
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Speaker 1: know in your unit, who have been there, done that,

351
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Speaker 1: shared experiences, and you guys are able to sort of

352
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Speaker 1: like laugh, cry, like talk about all the bs and

353
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Speaker 1: tell the war stories together. But it was nice to

354
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Speaker 1: be able to be able to do that with my sister,

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Speaker 1: and I think it was helpful for both of us.

356
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Speaker 2: Do you think the war, Well, I know the answer

357
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Speaker 2: to this question already, because it's inevitable. If you experienced war,

358
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Speaker 2: doesn't matter if you're flying one hundred de feet above

359
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Speaker 2: it or your boots on the ground. It does change

360
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Speaker 2: you in some deeper and profound ways. Have you and

361
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Speaker 2: your sister recognized any of the changes in yourselves?

362
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Speaker 1: Well, I'm not sure about my sister. For me, you know,

363
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Speaker 1: when I first came back, I was like, oh, I fine, whatever,

364
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Speaker 1: like didn't give much thought to it. It wasn't until

365
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Speaker 1: I transferred out of the military where I was like,

366
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Speaker 1: you operate at such a high stress level as a

367
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Speaker 1: Kiowa pilot when you and this is just like take

368
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Speaker 1: away combat. Takeaway combat, You're flying a small squarely aircraft

369
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Speaker 1: with a fifty cal machine gun, a rocket pod seven

370
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Speaker 1: high explosive rockets, you can carry hellfire missiles. You've got

371
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Speaker 1: a thermal imaging site system, and you have five radios

372
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Speaker 1: to talk on, listen to all at the same with

373
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Speaker 1: all different information, everybody talking into your ear. You've got

374
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Speaker 1: your weapons systems, you've got your nav system. You have

375
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Speaker 1: to fly a helicopter, make sure that you and your

376
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Speaker 1: co pilot are on top of that. And then you

377
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Speaker 1: have the mission. You have the ground force, the friendly situation,

378
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Speaker 1: and this is going back to combat. Now you have

379
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Speaker 1: the enemy situation. Sometimes people are shooting at you. You're

380
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:17,400
Speaker 1: getting target grids, target coordinates to take out an enemy target.

381
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 1: Bringing everything up, you have all sorts of aerial hazards

382
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Speaker 1: like mountains, birds, cell phone towers, wires, very steep valleys,

383
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Speaker 1: and power limitations within the aircraft and how much power

384
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Speaker 1: you have when you're doing these like deep dive attacks

385
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Speaker 1: with a fifty cal or rockets, and so it's a

386
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Speaker 1: lot at one time. Like you're if you're a Kiwa pilot,

387
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Speaker 1: you are likely an adrenaline junkie because that's what's going

388
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Speaker 1: on the entire time you're in the air, and you

389
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Speaker 1: get these troops in contact calls and then it's like

390
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Speaker 1: it's like a light switch, like it's on. It's like

391
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Speaker 1: go time, let's go. Like you could be like sitting there, fat,

392
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Speaker 1: dumb and happy, flying alt looking for the bad guy

393
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 1: and like the mountains of Afghanistan, and then you get

394
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 1: that call that there's friendly forces on the ground that

395
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Speaker 1: are overrun, getting attacked by the enemy, got hit by

396
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 1: an ID whatever, and it's like as Kywa pilots, we

397
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 1: prided ourselves in being able to have a call side,

398
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 1: a grid and a frequency and that's all we needed

399
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:28,640
Speaker 1: to go destroy the enemy and to protect those guys

400
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 1: on the ground that were in the thick of the fight.

401
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 1: That was our purpose. That was our mission, was to

402
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 1: protect those guys, make sure they came home to their

403
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,439
Speaker 1: families and try to make their day a little bit

404
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: easier because they didn't get to go back to the

405
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Speaker 1: fob that I lived on. They lived out in the cops,

406
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:50,439
Speaker 1: they lived out in the outposts with horrible food, you know,

407
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: not sleeping conditions. The enemy was always on them, and

408
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 1: so we prided ourselves in being able to respond with

409
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Speaker 1: as little information as possible. We didn't fly as fast

410
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 1: as an Apache, but we dropped everything to get there

411
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,119
Speaker 1: and help them out in any way that we could.

412
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Speaker 1: And that's what we lived for, and that's what we

413
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 1: prided ourselves on in combat, was being there for them

414
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 1: when it mattered the most. And so the adrenaline was

415
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: always there. And when you're deployed in combat, you lived

416
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Speaker 1: that for a year at a time. And I remember

417
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Speaker 1: speaking to a senior officer when I got back from

418
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Speaker 1: Iraq and he said, through some research, he was the

419
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 1: one sixtieth guy. He said that through their research they

420
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 1: had realized for every year you do at combat, it

421
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 1: takes twice that to sort of come down from that.

422
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: And then you compound it because you know, we're doing

423
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Speaker 1: these back to back to back deployments for years at

424
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Speaker 1: a time. My deployments were both one year. The army

425
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 1: had shifted to fifteen months after I was done deploying,

426
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 1: but so it was a lot and by the time

427
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 1: I got out, I had been living this like adrenaline,

428
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: stress filled lifestyle as most people experience in combat, and

429
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:18,239
Speaker 1: had lost friends and it takes a while to come

430
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,920
Speaker 1: down from that. I would say, like it takes years

431
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: to come down from that. It's not something that you

432
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: go talk to somebody about you know, for six weeks

433
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 1: and then you feel better. It's like it takes time

434
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 1: to sort of reset your lifestyle. At least that's the

435
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: way it is for me. And when I say lifestyle,

436
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: I mean sort of like your mindset and how you

437
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 1: operate without being three hundred miles an hour every day.

438
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 1: So that was a super long answer.

439
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 2: But I'm glad to have heard it because I was

440
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 2: one of those guys on the ground in the infantry

441
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 2: in Afghanistan getting shot up every single day, saved I

442
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 2: can't even tell you how many times by helicopter pilots

443
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 2: just like you. And Okay, so you want to do something,

444
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 2: do an exercise with me real quick, go with go

445
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,479
Speaker 2: with the flow on this amber. I want people to see.

446
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 2: I want to set a scenario and I want people

447
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 2: I want you to put people in your headspace. So

448
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 2: like say you're in Regional Command East RC East and

449
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:35,199
Speaker 2: Afghanistan my platoon or there's a platoon out on the

450
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 2: border that's in contact, that's pinned down, and you get

451
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 2: that troops in contact report and you're in your Tactical

452
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 2: Operation center or in your bed. Your birds are on QRF.

453
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 2: Take us through from the moment that you get that call,

454
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 2: because you said it's like a light switch. Take us

455
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 2: through that moment when you get that call, to every

456
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 2: step of the way to your bird. And I want

457
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 2: people to see the level of proficiency. You talked about

458
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:04,679
Speaker 2: it a little bit already, but the level of proficiency

459
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,880
Speaker 2: and how you have it down to a battle drill

460
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 2: when you handle those types of situations.

461
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: So immediately you get the call. Usually for us, we

462
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 1: were always in the air because you always, like we

463
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 1: did twenty four hour coverage, so there was always a

464
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 1: team in the air, and that's the team they called first,

465
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 1: unless they were just way far away. So say we

466
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: were the team that was in there, the pilot immediately

467
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 1: pushes forward on the cyclic and pulls up on the

468
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: collective which means max power, max airspeed, and you just

469
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: head in the direction. All you know is they may say, hey,

470
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: Corngall River Valley, there's a troops in contact. You know,

471
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:47,959
Speaker 1: two Kia six wounded Metavax called still active tick Grid coming.

472
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 1: So we know just from being in the being in

473
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: that AO where that vicinity is. So we just immediately

474
00:28:55,520 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: start flying as fast as we possibly can to A

475
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: and All.

476
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 2: And by the way, you don't know, you have no

477
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 2: idea what you're flying into. You just get a baseline report, who, where, when.

478
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: And why go yep yep. If that sometimes we don't

479
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: even have that, We get that when we're like super close.

480
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: Sometimes you get there and you don't have much information,

481
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: which makes it very difficult. Or you have, you know,

482
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: guys on the ground who they're they're people laying next

483
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 1: to them are shot and they're trying to keep people alive.

484
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: They're trying to talk to Ariel, they're trying to talk

485
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: to the weapon the Scout Weapons team, which is us,

486
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: and get them the proper get grid so we can

487
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: then if it's at night, like lays the target, blow

488
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: them up. And then sometimes we have to observe for artillery.

489
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: If they call it an artillery mission, we'll stand to

490
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: the side. So you have artillery flying through the air

491
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: and we're flying there as well. You have the METAVAC

492
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: coming in and it is like a non stop activity

493
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: and and you just do the best you can with

494
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: the information that you have. And then once you start

495
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: putting like rounds down on targets, sometimes things calm down.

496
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: Sometimes they don't, and so it just kind of depends

497
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: what the enemy in Afghanistan was very willing to fight,

498
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: even sometimes when helicopters were on station. And so it

499
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: was like that's why I say, like in Iraq, it

500
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 1: was my experiences were more like okay, once you laid

501
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: down fire, it was like, okay, it might get kind

502
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 1: of quiet. But in Afghanistan, some like they were ready

503
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 1: to fight and keep going, and it was it was

504
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: much harder terrain. In Afghanistan. They hid in the mountains.

505
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: There was like boulder sized rocks that were the side

506
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: of cars, and they learned, they started to learn our TTPs,

507
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 1: our tactics, techniques and procedures for US as aerial platforms,

508
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: and they knew that they could you know, come out

509
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: when we were on our outbound racetrack pattern before after

510
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: shooting and then jump back behind the rocks again, which

511
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: were which were great you know, like protectors for them.

512
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 1: And so it was we did what we could with

513
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: the information and entering availability that we had.

514
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 2: I remember I used to come back from moments like that,

515
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 2: you know, haven't been been bailed out by you know,

516
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 2: helicopter air assets, come back from a troops in contact

517
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 2: and like you know, your adrenaline flows. It's It's crazy

518
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 2: how your adrenaline flows in moments like that, And I'm

519
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 2: sure it was like that for you and the birds

520
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 2: racing to troops in contact, trying to save the day.

521
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 2: You get back from those missions, How did you mentally reset?

522
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 2: Because I feel like there were times I'd come back

523
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 2: from missions and I'd you know, you go through your

524
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 2: priorities of work and make sure your trucks are refilled

525
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 2: with fuel and ammunition, and your weapons are cleaned, and

526
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 2: then you know your men eat. What was that like

527
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 2: for you? How did you mentally reset? Because you go

528
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 2: you're flying, I mean, what's the air speed of a

529
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 2: Kiowa Warrior helicopter pilot, and you're talking about the chaos

530
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 2: over top of troops in contact. You don't want to

531
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,239
Speaker 2: shoot friendly troops. You've got artillery sometimes coming in, You've

532
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 2: got mortars coming in. You don't want to get hit

533
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 2: with a mortar. You don't want to get hit with artillery.

534
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 2: And then sometimes you have close air support, which are

535
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 2: a tens and in some of the worst cases like

536
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 2: a strategical answer, and you don't want to be caught

537
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 2: in the middle of any of that. So God forbid.

538
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 2: So somehow you, by the grace of God, you survive

539
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 2: all that, you find yourself back on the base. How

540
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 2: do you mentally decompress from that?

541
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 1: So for me, I really didn't decompress during that year

542
00:32:55,560 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: that I was there. I like I almost couldn't because

543
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 1: you go out the next day and you do the

544
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: exact same thing, and so you kind of have to

545
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: keep your head in the game. And I think that's

546
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: why it's so taxing and so stressful, like compounded stress

547
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: is because you don't ever get that let down while

548
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: you're in it, because you need to keep that stress

549
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: level so high in order for you to keep your

550
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 1: head in the game to be able to be completely

551
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 1: efficient and effective at your mission and flying the helicopter,

552
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: and you can't let emotions and what if scenarios like

553
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 1: enter your mind. Those definitely came after when you come

554
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: home from deployments like back to America. Yeah, then it's

555
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: like flooded with like how the hell did I survive

556
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 1: that specific situation? Like I should not. I should not

557
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: have survived it, Like, by the grace of God, I

558
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 1: am here today. But there are there are instances, like

559
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: too many to count where I'm like, how did I

560
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: survive that and so, but you can't think of that

561
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,760
Speaker 1: either in the moment when you come back from the mission.

562
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 1: It's it's just at least that's how I handled it.

563
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 1: I didn't let my mind go to that place until

564
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,240
Speaker 1: I came back from the deployment, like in the moment

565
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: in Afghanistan or in Iraq. It was a fate I

566
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:30,240
Speaker 1: had accepted for anything that was going to happen in country.

567
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,359
Speaker 1: It was a fate that I accepted for being there

568
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 1: as part of my job and part of my mission.

569
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: And I just didn't let myself think about it or

570
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: dwell on it. And it was like, Yep, going to

571
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: wake up tomorrow and do the exact same thing. You

572
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: talk about a fate, help out guys just like you did.

573
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 2: Do you talk about a fate you accepted? Did you

574
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,439
Speaker 2: accept at a certain level that you that you could

575
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,879
Speaker 2: very well die and you just let go. You don't care,

576
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 2: and obviously you want to make it home alive.

577
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that you know that because I had

578
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 1: so many I had. I had so many people in

579
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: my troop, like small troop that I know throughout my years,

580
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: had gotten killed in helicopter crashes, in combat, like it

581
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 1: was like a fact of life. And it was like

582
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 1: I remember when my friend Mike Slabonik, who's the sew

583
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 1: before he was killed in Afghanistan. He was shot in

584
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 1: his thigh and bled out and was killed on actually

585
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,720
Speaker 1: nine to eleventh, two thousand and eight. And I remember

586
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 1: I was he was in my troop. He was my

587
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 1: instructor pilot from the very first. I deployed with him twice,

588
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: flown with him. Taught me so much about flying. And

589
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:45,399
Speaker 1: I remember because it had happened so many times. You

590
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 1: know the look on a person's face when they walk

591
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: into a room to tell you. And I remember when

592
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 1: my my friend and colleague and pilot came to tell me.

593
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: I looked on her face and I said, who is it?

594
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: She didn't say anything. I just knew that someone had died.

595
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 1: I didn't know who, and uh, I was just like,

596
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: who is it? And then I found out was Mike.

597
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:18,879
Speaker 2: But how did you handle that?

598
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: That was rough for me, that it so so we

599
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,240
Speaker 1: just talked about We just talked about how you handle

600
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: knowing you could die in combat. And I think that

601
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: was kind of the exception when I said I didn't

602
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: think about it in theater but when Mike got killed,

603
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 1: it brought me back to reality and brought me back

604
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 1: how like every day you make it home from a

605
00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 1: mission is a gift, and like how fragile life is,

606
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 1: and just how unfair it was that he didn't make

607
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: it home. You know, wife, kids, great American, loved this country,

608
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 1: loved serving and flying, and so it was. It was

609
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: hard even after like all the people who I also

610
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:28,839
Speaker 1: knew had been killed. It was it was. It never

611
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 1: gets any easier. I would say, how.

612
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 2: Has how have these experiences amber shaped your perspective on

613
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 2: how you live your life today?

614
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 1: Everything, all of those experiences have formed who I have,

615
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 1: who I am today, and it's completely changed my perspective

616
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: of war, of national security, of foreign policy, of at

617
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: a at a more national political level has completely And

618
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: also I think from my time serving in the Pentagon

619
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 1: and seeing it more from an executive Pentagon level and

620
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 1: then contrast to me as more of an operations tactical

621
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 1: level as my time as a Kiowa pilot. Uh. And

622
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 1: so that's completely changed my perspective on life and how

623
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,879
Speaker 1: I live my life, my priorities of what I think

624
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 1: is important, and I'm so incredibly grateful for my service.

625
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:44,919
Speaker 1: I it gave me so much. It was it was hard.

626
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: I almost did it for you know, over seven and

627
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 1: a half years of my life, but it gave me

628
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 1: so much in terms of life lessons and learning who

629
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 1: I was and what I was capable of and and

630
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 1: how I would handle situations and so everything who I

631
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: am today is because of my experiences in the military.

632
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 2: Do you think when you talk about how your service

633
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 2: has shaped your perspective on geopolitics?

634
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 1: In war?

635
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:32,399
Speaker 2: You've always been someone. You fought for this country in Afghanistan,

636
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,720
Speaker 2: Iraq on multiple battlefield as you said you did seven

637
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 2: plus years. It's so important amber for people like you

638
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 2: to come back and stay involved in the dialogue and

639
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 2: direction of this country. The role of you know, the

640
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 2: elder warrior in society's past, and that yes, we send

641
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 2: our men and women to fight for our country. They

642
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,800
Speaker 2: experience haring and sometimes horrifying things in service to the country,

643
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 2: and instead of coming home and detaching, we need those

644
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,720
Speaker 2: people to come back and stay involved to help educate

645
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 2: our policymakers on what war is like. And you've done that.

646
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 2: Where of all the horrible things that you've experienced, I'm

647
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 2: sure your service is braided with terrible experiences and the

648
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 2: best experiences in life. But where has that motivation come

649
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 2: from inside of you to stay in the fight for

650
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:41,320
Speaker 2: this country.

651
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 1: I will tell you that I think top level leadership

652
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 1: are in the military are a big part of today's

653
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 1: problem with the military, and unfortunately, their voice in society

654
00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 1: is what matters. The reason I choose to stay involved

655
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 1: and be very vocal on some very unpopular issues that

656
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 1: a lot of people don't agree with me on is

657
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: because I think that it's important to have voices out

658
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:18,839
Speaker 1: there that don't have stars on their shoulders, people who

659
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 1: have fought in these wars, that some of their decisions

660
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:26,839
Speaker 1: place people in these positions. Those people who have been

661
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 1: there at that lower operational level, tactical level, and have

662
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:38,919
Speaker 1: those experiences and understand that what briefs well on a

663
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 1: fancy little PowerPoint presentation in a skiff in the Pentagon

664
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 1: or at the White House doesn't always equate to what's

665
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: needed on the battlefield to achieve mission success. And so

666
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:58,800
Speaker 1: I don't feel that the tactical level soldier is always

667
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 1: best represented because in today's military, once you get that

668
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: star on your shoulder, a lot of people aren't gonna

669
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 1: like that. I have to say this, but they are politicians.

670
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: You are then a politician that is serving a higher

671
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: political being. It's no longer about the guys on the ground,

672
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: and I take issue with that. It's not okay. It's

673
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:28,280
Speaker 1: destroying our military and we see it in the recruitment

674
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,760
Speaker 1: numbers that are coming out. It's only gonna get worse,

675
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 1: and so I want to make sure that people know

676
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 1: the truth and that military leadership is a significant like also,

677
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 1: you know, executive and congressional legislative leadership is as well.

678
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 1: They hold some of the blame with the budget and

679
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 1: all of that, but it's they are a big part

680
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 1: of the problem. And I think for so long in

681
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 1: our country no one felt like they could speak out

682
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: about jenn Les. It was like, oh, you're a general,

683
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 1: You're untouchable, and that should be the exact opposite. You

684
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 1: want the responsibilities that come with being a general, then

685
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 1: guess what you deserve to be critiqued for the decisions

686
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 1: that you make. But sadly, there is no accountability for

687
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 1: about above the lieutenant colonel rank. It's like once you

688
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 1: make it past lieutenant colonel. Except very few instances in

689
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 1: the Navy, for some reason. In the Navy, they still

690
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 1: choose to hold some of their vessel commanders responsible for

691
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 1: things that happen with them. But across the military, as

692
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 1: a generalization, senior military leaders are no longer held accountable

693
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:48,240
Speaker 1: and that is a significant, significant problem for the future

694
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 1: of our nation and our national security and then an

695
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: effective military.

696
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 2: Amber I totally agree. Can I give you my perspective

697
00:43:57,760 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 2: on this?

698
00:43:59,239 --> 00:43:59,839
Speaker 1: Absolutely?

699
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 2: People like you know so, I've served just over six years,

700
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 2: almost seven years in the military. I went into the

701
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 2: military after nine to eleven, just like you saying, I

702
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 2: wanted to make it a career. And then I went

703
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 2: to airborne school, went to ranger school, went to every cool,

704
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 2: sexy school that the military had to offer, and I

705
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 2: found myself boots on the ground in eastern Afghanistan in

706
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 2: direct combat with an enemy for sixteen straight months. And

707
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 2: first firefight I came back. It was exhilarating. And then

708
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 2: the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, I was like, Okay,

709
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 2: this sucks. I can't do this. I can't do this

710
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:43,439
Speaker 2: for a career. And I came home. I came home.

711
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 2: I became you know. I I remember like my U

712
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 2: came home in my unit, like nine months later, was

713
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 2: supposed to go back to Afghanistan and I went into

714
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 2: my commander's office and I said, you know, Sir, I

715
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 2: can't do this. I can't I can't lead troops effectively

716
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:03,399
Speaker 2: anymore because I'm home now. I'm emotionally compromised. You talked

717
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 2: about that emotional state that you have to get in

718
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 2: and combat to be able to survive and thrive and lead.

719
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 2: I was out of it. Amber I was out of it.

720
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 2: And I rather than put my soldiers at risk and

721
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 2: say like and pretend like there wasn't an issue, I

722
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 2: went and told my commander I can't do it anymore.

723
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 2: And that was in the process of being medically retired,

724
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 2: having been wounded in combat and all that. But during

725
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:31,840
Speaker 2: that time of my medical retirement, I did a lot

726
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:37,879
Speaker 2: of watching other leaders officers in the military, and what

727
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 2: I saw is that there are officers that play the

728
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 2: game and officers who don't. And it's typically the officers

729
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 2: who don't see heavy combat that end up staying in

730
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 2: because they don't have the same sort of experiences that

731
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 2: I had on the battlefield and they think, oh, this

732
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 2: isn't that bad, Well, maybe stay on to be a

733
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 2: captain a major, lieutenant colonel. And what you end up

734
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 2: have happening is is you have in units all across

735
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 2: the military, people who didn't see the heaviest combat, or

736
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 2: didn't didn't play at the highest operational tempo, end up

737
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:18,439
Speaker 2: climbing the ladder. And what I saw among that demographic

738
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,839
Speaker 2: where men and women who are willing to play the game,

739
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 2: leaders who were only concerned with their bow and rarely

740
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 2: their wake. And most of those people never saw sustained

741
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:35,840
Speaker 2: heavy combat or high operational tempo like you. And what

742
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 2: you end up have happening is you have a bunch

743
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 2: of people with stars on their shoulders who have never

744
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 2: really seen the horrors of war up close and personal

745
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 2: for a sustained amount of time. And I liken it

746
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 2: to almost being, you know, calling yourself an artist, but

747
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 2: having never painted the painting in your life. Yet. These

748
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 2: are the people that are making life and death decisions

749
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 2: at this strategic level for our country and our men

750
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 2: and women in uniform. And we're talking when you talk

751
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:08,240
Speaker 2: about making strategic decisions, we're talking about decisions that send

752
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 2: our people to war, which I believe America's sons and

753
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 2: daughters are the most precious natural resource it's a leader's job.

754
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 2: And I think that you'll probably agree with me. It's

755
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 2: we need to do everything that we can to protect

756
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 2: America's sons and daughters and shield them from sending them

757
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 2: into frivolous wars. And I think that's sort of why

758
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 2: we're in, why the military is today where it is.

759
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:43,399
Speaker 1: That's such a fantastic point. Like with your experiences transitioning

760
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 1: out of the military and what you saw, I do

761
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 1: think that when you said that our men and women

762
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: who are serving our nation's most viable assets, they one

763
00:47:54,719 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 1: hundred percent are And there is nothing that makes me

764
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:04,359
Speaker 1: more furious than an American saying when you point out

765
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,839
Speaker 1: the flaws of the Pentagon, and you point out the

766
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 1: flaws of the military and toxic leadership that exists, and

767
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 1: you know, the almost cultural stance at the top, which

768
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 1: is to appease politicians in Washington instead of setting up

769
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 1: the military to be the best. Down at the tactical

770
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 1: level is when people say, oh, well you well, you

771
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:33,760
Speaker 1: signed up to serve the military people volunt all volunteer force,

772
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 1: so they just have to deal with it. They you know,

773
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: they knew what they were signing up for. And that

774
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 1: is a bunch of crap. People signed up to serve

775
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 1: our country because they believe in the freedoms and principles

776
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:49,799
Speaker 1: that our nation was founding on founded on, and they

777
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 1: believe that it is worth protecting. They don't sign up

778
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 1: to join the military to have the poorest leaders that

779
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:02,400
Speaker 1: exist and are not putting their wealth being in line

780
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 1: the way that it should be. You should not be

781
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 1: treated as can and fodder because you signed up to

782
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: serve our military, and that has a lot to do

783
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 1: with leadership and what they think that they can get

784
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 1: away with and their priorities, and so, yes, signing up

785
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: for war, you know that you could potentially have to

786
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 1: go to war give your life, and that's what people

787
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 1: know going into it. But it doesn't mean that they

788
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 1: should be put in positions that they had that are

789
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:39,320
Speaker 1: wrong for the nation, that are not smart foreign policy

790
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 1: or national security decisions. And sadly that's what we see today.

791
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 1: That's exactly what we saw with Afghanistan, where there was

792
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 1: not a single general from about summer of twenty eleven

793
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 1: after osamavan Laden was killed up until the withdrawal that

794
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:58,319
Speaker 1: could not articulate a mission or an in state for Afghanistan.

795
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 1: So they knew they and they continued to send people

796
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 1: into harm's way for a fight that they couldn't articulate.

797
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 2: I mean, I totally totally listen. I totally agree. And

798
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 2: I was going to ask you about the fall of

799
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:19,319
Speaker 2: Afghanistan and how that affected you, you know, emotionally, mentally, physically.

800
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 2: I remember when I saw those images of what it

801
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 2: looked like Saigon two point zero and the chinel helicopters

802
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,319
Speaker 2: on top of the embassies in Afghanistan, and just the

803
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:37,759
Speaker 2: sheer just how fast Afghanistan collapsed in on itself like

804
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 2: a dying star. And our politicians who sent us into

805
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 2: that war for twenty plus years, like as you mentioned,

806
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,319
Speaker 2: no mission, no end state, and you had these generals

807
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 2: who every year the issue they report on Afghanistan in January,

808
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 2: and every year they say the mission is on track,

809
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 2: the Afghan National Armies on track, the Afghan National Police

810
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 2: are on track, Afghan Border Police are good to go.

811
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 2: But you and I, having been in that country, we

812
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 2: knew that that wasn't true. Yet they issued those reports anyway,

813
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:11,840
Speaker 2: And in the lead up to the fall of Afghanistan,

814
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 2: you could see the writing on the wall. You could

815
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 2: see that our political leaders, our military leaders had They

816
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 2: hadn't given one thought to what a drawdown in peaceful

817
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:26,239
Speaker 2: end state or peaceful withdrawal from Afghanistan looked like, and

818
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 2: it ended up squandering what I believe. I mean obviously

819
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 2: like having been there, I would go back and serve

820
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 2: there again. We did lots of great things there. We

821
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 2: built wells in villages and did lots of humanitarian assistants

822
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:43,719
Speaker 2: and taught kids to read and you know, enabled young

823
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:45,840
Speaker 2: little girls to go get an education. I'm proud of

824
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 2: my service in Afghanistan. I'm sure that you are too,

825
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 2: But it doesn't mean that I'm not pissed off that

826
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:56,480
Speaker 2: they squandered every bit of that. Because you're seeing Afghanistan,

827
00:51:57,320 --> 00:51:59,439
Speaker 2: it's like the funniest thing in the world. Amber where

828
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,239
Speaker 2: you had the administration in Jensaki, who is then the

829
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:06,399
Speaker 2: White House Press Secretary, saying that the Taliban were going

830
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:10,840
Speaker 2: to now now embrace women's rights and allow them to

831
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 2: go to school. Was there any part of you that

832
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 2: believed that at all? And give me a sense, give

833
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 2: us a sense of how you process the fall of

834
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 2: Afghanistan and what it was like for you.

835
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 1: All politics is today is PR campaign after PR campaign,

836
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 1: after pr campaign, and Afghanistan was no different. Like you said,

837
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:36,239
Speaker 1: they were trying to sell to the public that the

838
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 1: Taliban was going to be great for Afghanistan and they

839
00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:41,760
Speaker 1: were going to be okay with women's rights and girls

840
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 1: going to school, and anyone with half of a brain

841
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 1: saw right through that, especially veterans who had served there.

842
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 1: And that's why I think it was so difficult. The

843
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 1: withdrawal was so difficult, difficult for so many Afghanistan veterans.

844
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:00,160
Speaker 1: For me, the writing was on the wall. I understood

845
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 1: from a political stance that the war in Afghanistan was

846
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 1: never going to change. It was going to be the

847
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: same bureaucracy, the same hearings at Congress, the same throw

848
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:16,319
Speaker 1: the money at the problem, no results, no accountability, no

849
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:18,840
Speaker 1: ability to track the money that we are sending, the

850
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,359
Speaker 1: fifty billion dollars a year that we're sending over there,

851
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 1: and so year after year after year, it was very

852
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 1: clear to me that there was no coherent strategy, if

853
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:32,840
Speaker 1: there was one at all, towards any sort of a

854
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 1: in state that would be beneficial. So it was we

855
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 1: can continue to spend money, we can continue to see

856
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 1: our American soldiers die in Afghanistan, or we can start

857
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:54,799
Speaker 1: the process of ending this war. So I was for

858
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:56,879
Speaker 1: the end of the war. What I was not for

859
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 1: was the withdrawal. The way that it happened, it could

860
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 1: not have been more like the world side. It could

861
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 1: not have been more of a disaster, more chaotic, more unplanned,

862
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:14,640
Speaker 1: and it really showed a lot of our vulnerabilities, I

863
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 1: think from a national security perspective, with how it unfolded,

864
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:24,160
Speaker 1: both like in our intelligence and you know, the Taliban

865
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 1: has no capabilities to take Kabul, the Afghan Army is

866
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:31,280
Speaker 1: able to hold Kaboul. You know, all of that information

867
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:35,759
Speaker 1: that continued to come out from the IC and was

868
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 1: it wasn't just false, Like we didn't look back and

869
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 1: be like, oh yeah, they were a little off on

870
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 1: that one. It fell in the it fell in days,

871
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 1: and so it was just I think an example of

872
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:56,280
Speaker 1: the IC doing their analysis, politicized analysis of like wanting

873
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 1: a specific outcome and then that's what gets briefed instead

874
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 1: of the reality on the ground. And so it was

875
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 1: very difficult for me to watch, actually a whole lot

876
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 1: more difficult than I thought it would be. It really

877
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 1: affected me seeing, you know, seeing the helicopters evacuate American

878
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:22,279
Speaker 1: civilians off of the embassies, seeing what happened at the

879
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:29,080
Speaker 1: airfield at Kia, seeing American veterans springing into actions, like

880
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 1: everybody on their phones twenty four to seven to try

881
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 1: to help the interpreters, interpreters and the other Afghans who

882
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 1: had helped Americans on the ground. And it was such

883
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:45,000
Speaker 1: a helpless feeling because you're sitting over here in America.

884
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 1: You're like trying to, you know, communicate the best you can,

885
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 1: figure out a way, figure out which gates open right now,

886
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:54,640
Speaker 1: versus you know, where the Taliban is like beating people

887
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 1: to death and all of that. So it was a

888
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:00,319
Speaker 1: lot and it was really a surreal time, I am.

889
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:04,640
Speaker 1: But what was more surreal was how quick it was

890
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 1: out of the news cycle once it was over.

891
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:10,840
Speaker 2: My gosh, Amber, you're so right, Oh my god, so

892
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 2: much there. I remember experiencing that I felt at a

893
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 2: very similar experience, and I remember thinking, my god, I

894
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:24,880
Speaker 2: want to go back, get me over there. And at

895
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 2: the time I was, I was running for Senate at

896
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 2: the height of my Senate campaign, and I was this

897
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:34,719
Speaker 2: close to suspending my campaign and hopping on like some civilian. Wow,

898
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 2: back and I did, you feel the same way. I

899
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:38,919
Speaker 2: know that you did.

900
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 1: I did, I absolutely did, and I did the best

901
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:46,800
Speaker 1: I can. I was working with some special operations veterans

902
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 1: that were doing some sort of fantastic work behind the

903
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:55,120
Speaker 1: scenes in terms of getting things done, and I'm grateful

904
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 1: for the work that I was able to do with them.

905
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:00,439
Speaker 1: Of course, you always wish that you could you more,

906
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:04,759
Speaker 1: which sort of leads to that like helpless feeling. But

907
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 1: it was like time was so short, and then the

908
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 1: State Department, you know, shut everybody down, like shut it.

909
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:13,200
Speaker 1: At one point it was like nope, shut down and

910
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:15,040
Speaker 1: there was no way in or out. And then it

911
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:17,800
Speaker 1: was like, all right, let's move to Grand transportation, and

912
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 1: that became its own issues for the obvious reasons with

913
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:25,800
Speaker 1: the Taliban and checkpoints, and it was just it was

914
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 1: unreal that the US government essentially did that to itself,

915
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:36,440
Speaker 1: and where's the accountability, Sean. Are we going to have

916
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:41,200
Speaker 1: that conversation, Like, I know, Congress just launched their investigation,

917
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 1: but which is great, which is great, We're going to

918
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 1: spend taxpair dollars on like millions of taxpair dollars on

919
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 1: an investigation. But are we going to say, I only

920
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 1: want an investigation if there's going to be some accountability,

921
00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 1: because what are they going to do with this investigation?

922
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 2: What It's a fair point, Amber, And I really let

923
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 2: me just let me just ask you this, how much

924
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:08,680
Speaker 2: investigation do we really need to do?

925
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 1: Exactly?

926
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 2: We all saw what a horrific train wreck the withdrawal

927
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 2: of Afghanistan was like. Yet you're absolutely right, from Milly

928
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 2: on down, there hasn't been one single person, not one politician,

929
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 2: not not one single general, not one single military leader,

930
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 2: who's been held accountable for that debacle. And at some level,

931
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:37,040
Speaker 2: I think there has to be accountability.

932
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 1: There has to be accountability, and if generals and civilian leaders,

933
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 1: civilian sectefs, there needs to be public acknowledgment of their

934
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 1: failures and that their responsibility contributed to this. And it

935
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 1: has to be not political. It has to be completely

936
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 1: just factual. These decisions, these leadership decisions that were made

937
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:07,160
Speaker 1: by these individuals, you know, failed the US military and

938
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:10,920
Speaker 1: those were serving in the people of Afghanistan. It needs

939
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 1: to be that blunt. If they can't, you know, like

940
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:20,200
Speaker 1: criminally financially hold them accountable, then their needs they need

941
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:24,920
Speaker 1: to publicly be said, what the decisions that these people

942
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:29,800
Speaker 1: made led and the consequences of their actions. But yeah,

943
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 1: the people who are still serving, it is like they

944
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 1: need to be removed from leadership leadership positions. But the

945
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:39,200
Speaker 1: thing was is that in the military at the Pentagon,

946
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 1: and this isn't just the military, this is a government problem.

947
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 1: You fail up when you go on with the failed

948
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:50,120
Speaker 1: decisions and you fall in line. Guess what, you keep

949
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 1: your mouth shut, you get promoted, you move up, you

950
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:56,880
Speaker 1: speak out, you use common sense, you think critically. Guess

951
00:59:56,880 --> 01:00:00,600
Speaker 1: what you are now a threat? And you who are

952
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:02,920
Speaker 1: going to be held accountable for telling the truth?

953
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 2: I mean, we live in a society with a two

954
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 2: tiered justice system. And you know, if you look at

955
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:11,600
Speaker 2: what's going on with Joe Biden and the scandal that

956
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:15,720
Speaker 2: he's embroiled in with these classified documents, like in the

957
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 2: carelessness with which he handled them had and then you

958
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 2: look at the way the general these generals handled Afghanistan

959
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 2: and the carelessness with which they handled the whole of Afghanistan. No,

960
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 2: like no accountability for Afghanistan. Is there going to be

961
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:34,000
Speaker 2: accountability for Joe Biden, who, by the way, is the

962
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:40,600
Speaker 2: commander in chief of the United States military. We wouldn't

963
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:44,720
Speaker 2: get that level of grace if if you and you

964
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 2: or I as tactical leaders made the same mistakes that

965
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:53,000
Speaker 2: they did, we would be fired and put out of

966
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:54,280
Speaker 2: the military in a second.

967
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:58,919
Speaker 1: Can you even imagine? First of all, no, I don't

968
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 1: think Joe Biden's going to be held accountaball. I don't

969
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:05,640
Speaker 1: not for a second. I wasn't even surprised. I wasn't

970
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 1: even surprised when I heard about this, about the cost

971
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 1: by documents, I just was like, sounds about right. So

972
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 1: the Yeah, imagine a captain or maybe like an E five,

973
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:23,560
Speaker 1: you know all the clearances, goes in a skiff, is

974
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 1: working on something, just takes this many documents, stuffs them

975
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:31,200
Speaker 1: in his backpack and walks out. What would happen to

976
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:34,520
Speaker 1: that guy?

977
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely right, Yes, absolutely right, And there'd be no

978
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 2: discussion about it.

979
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:45,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, no discussion. They would be like committing treason, a

980
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:51,240
Speaker 1: threat to the United States government. So it's just like

981
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:55,960
Speaker 1: you said, the two tier justice system, the political elites,

982
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 1: when you're on the right wrong the right side, how

983
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 1: you get treated, and how everybody looks the other way

984
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 1: for you versus everybody else. It's really on American and

985
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 1: I don't know how long you carry on like that

986
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 1: before people wake up to the reality and get very

987
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 1: angry about that about one standard being held to the

988
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:24,920
Speaker 1: political elite and those on the right side and then

989
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:26,080
Speaker 1: those everybody else.

990
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:30,919
Speaker 2: Well, you know, and now Amber, you have two kids

991
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:32,680
Speaker 2: of your own. How old are you got a boy

992
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 2: and a girl? How old are they?

993
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:36,400
Speaker 1: You do? Four and too?

994
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:39,400
Speaker 2: Four and two? Yeah, So I tried to do a

995
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:41,520
Speaker 2: little bit of math before the pro try to figure

996
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:43,520
Speaker 2: out how old your kids were. So you're still in

997
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:45,800
Speaker 2: the thick of it with your little ones, like where

998
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 2: they're probably waking up in the middle of the night.

999
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:52,680
Speaker 2: And so you've made the transition from you know, running

1000
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:56,040
Speaker 2: combat missions in Afghanistan and a Kyo Warrior helicopter flying

1001
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:59,480
Speaker 2: into troops in contact of probably watching Doc mcstuffans and

1002
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:03,120
Speaker 2: knowing all the lyrics on all of those Disney those

1003
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 2: Disney shows, which which is yeah, you Pepa Pig, which

1004
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:08,680
Speaker 2: is a journey in and of itself, an adventurous one

1005
01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:12,120
Speaker 2: at that. But what do you would you want your

1006
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:16,000
Speaker 2: children joining the military because your oldest is four, So

1007
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:19,520
Speaker 2: in fourteen years that would go by like that in

1008
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:23,800
Speaker 2: fourteen years. So we talked about your parents and how

1009
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:26,000
Speaker 2: they were supportive of you joined the military during a

1010
01:03:26,040 --> 01:03:29,959
Speaker 2: time of war, and how they clearly how I don't

1011
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:32,520
Speaker 2: know how either. I mean, I'm a parent with young

1012
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:36,400
Speaker 2: children as well. I have no idea how I would

1013
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 2: react to a situation like that. With where the military

1014
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:45,680
Speaker 2: is today, where are you on that?

1015
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:50,040
Speaker 1: The answer is a hard no, And that absolutely breaks

1016
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:53,640
Speaker 1: my heart to say that. But the military that I

1017
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:59,440
Speaker 1: served in I don't even recognize anymore. It doesn't exist.

1018
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 1: And that's hard because I devoted a significant chunk of

1019
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:06,280
Speaker 1: my life to it and it did do so much

1020
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:09,760
Speaker 1: for me. It was extremely hard and challenging, and it

1021
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:14,800
Speaker 1: forced myself, you know, to to the to the red

1022
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:18,320
Speaker 1: line where you learn what you're capable of and your limits,

1023
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:23,200
Speaker 1: and it it learned. It brings out the best part

1024
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:26,840
Speaker 1: of you. And so I'm so grateful for my service,

1025
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:31,440
Speaker 1: and I'm sad that that type of a military, with

1026
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:35,640
Speaker 1: the military leadership that exists today isn't there anymore. And

1027
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:38,720
Speaker 1: that the positive things that I said that the military

1028
01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:43,160
Speaker 1: does for you about character building and you know, working

1029
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:46,439
Speaker 1: with the most diverse group of people that is out

1030
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:50,240
Speaker 1: there and having one solid mission and your purpose. I

1031
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:55,960
Speaker 1: don't believe that that military and those experiences are there anymore.

1032
01:04:55,960 --> 01:04:59,480
Speaker 1: I don't feel like it's military leadership would have the

1033
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:03,440
Speaker 1: best in tryst of my children serving. It took me,

1034
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:08,320
Speaker 1: you know, when I first started having these thoughts about

1035
01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:12,080
Speaker 1: you know, this is real now, like my parents are

1036
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:15,959
Speaker 1: growing up in a household where their father is still

1037
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:20,800
Speaker 1: serving and has had an incredible military career. And then

1038
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:23,800
Speaker 1: you know, I obviously served combat veteran myself, so of

1039
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:26,360
Speaker 1: course they're going to hear about it and be so

1040
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:29,840
Speaker 1: interested in it. But that's going to be a really

1041
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:32,840
Speaker 1: hard conversation, and like I wish, I hope the military

1042
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:35,000
Speaker 1: gets back on track. It's why I'm so vocal and

1043
01:05:35,040 --> 01:05:38,520
Speaker 1: passionate about this is the military needs to turn itself

1044
01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:42,320
Speaker 1: around and get back to a mission focused organization rather

1045
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:49,640
Speaker 1: than a Washington, d c. Political agenda organization and really

1046
01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:52,720
Speaker 1: a leadership institution. The United States used to be the

1047
01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:58,800
Speaker 1: best like leadership government agency institution out there. West Point

1048
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:01,360
Speaker 1: used to be the number one hip school in the world.

1049
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:04,440
Speaker 1: Now they're teaching CRT. They used to teach critical thinking,

1050
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:07,040
Speaker 1: and now they're focused on other things. So it's just

1051
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:10,919
Speaker 1: like the military has lost its way and it needs

1052
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:12,800
Speaker 1: to get back on track if they want to fix

1053
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:18,000
Speaker 1: this recruiting and retention and morale crisis that the military

1054
01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:22,800
Speaker 1: is in right now. I will tell you I have

1055
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:27,760
Speaker 1: been speaking with a lot of active duty military and

1056
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:34,400
Speaker 1: I have been asking them the same question. Not one

1057
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:39,400
Speaker 1: person has said they would recommend military service to their children.

1058
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:43,640
Speaker 1: That is terrifying because when I served out the Pentagon,

1059
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:46,960
Speaker 1: I worked on an initiative called Know Your Military, which

1060
01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:50,120
Speaker 1: connects the American public that doesn't have much of a

1061
01:06:50,120 --> 01:06:53,840
Speaker 1: connection to those who serve, and then connects them to

1062
01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:56,680
Speaker 1: the military. It's part of bridging the civilian military divide.

1063
01:06:57,000 --> 01:07:00,000
Speaker 1: And through our research, we found that the military had

1064
01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:04,160
Speaker 1: really turned into a family business. People who have parents

1065
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:07,960
Speaker 1: who serve are so much more likely to serve than

1066
01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:10,960
Speaker 1: those without military parents are without that direct connection to

1067
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:14,240
Speaker 1: the military. And now this trend in people who are

1068
01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:18,400
Speaker 1: serving are not recommending to their children that they serve

1069
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:21,880
Speaker 1: in the military. Is like, we think recruitment is bad

1070
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:25,400
Speaker 1: this current generation, what's it going to look like in

1071
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:28,360
Speaker 1: the next generation? And people need to wake up to

1072
01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:35,800
Speaker 1: the national security threat that that is when are like, like,

1073
01:07:36,080 --> 01:07:38,280
Speaker 1: we have an all volunteer service right now, is it

1074
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:39,360
Speaker 1: always going to be like that.

1075
01:07:40,640 --> 01:07:42,560
Speaker 2: How do we get things back on the right track.

1076
01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:52,440
Speaker 1: We do. We start by fixing the general problem. And

1077
01:07:52,240 --> 01:07:55,560
Speaker 1: the thing is is that it's not an easy fix.

1078
01:07:57,320 --> 01:07:59,960
Speaker 1: It's going to have to be Congress in the executive brand.

1079
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:03,960
Speaker 1: It's working together, and what I just said doesn't actually

1080
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 1: exist in real life. So I don't think there's going

1081
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:12,600
Speaker 1: to be much change. It would require both of them

1082
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:19,600
Speaker 1: focusing on leadership at the Pentagon and understanding that that

1083
01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:25,840
Speaker 1: sort of legacy generals are the problem, are part of

1084
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:29,599
Speaker 1: the problem, and they've just become yes man, that's what's said.

1085
01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:32,760
Speaker 1: The generals of World War Two no longer exist. Those

1086
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:37,000
Speaker 1: aren't the generals in the military today. And so that's

1087
01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:41,680
Speaker 1: kind of step one. You know, root out the toxic leadership,

1088
01:08:42,280 --> 01:08:45,960
Speaker 1: the people who are you know, pushing these woke agendas

1089
01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:53,000
Speaker 1: onto the military, over readiness, over mission success. And that's

1090
01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:54,920
Speaker 1: more on the political leadership side that we see with

1091
01:08:54,960 --> 01:08:58,880
Speaker 1: the sect deaf and his sort of priorities for the

1092
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:05,800
Speaker 1: US military. That so there's a lot to do, but

1093
01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:08,280
Speaker 1: with the way the military is treating those who are

1094
01:09:08,360 --> 01:09:13,080
Speaker 1: currently serving, it's having a serious effect. We saw what

1095
01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:18,320
Speaker 1: the COVID mandate did It really was damaging to a

1096
01:09:18,360 --> 01:09:21,519
Speaker 1: lot of people serving who were forced into a corner

1097
01:09:21,880 --> 01:09:28,080
Speaker 1: and completely told that their principles didn't matter. So they

1098
01:09:28,080 --> 01:09:35,719
Speaker 1: were told to basically, you know, the the army values

1099
01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:39,160
Speaker 1: that you learn from day one. They were essentially said to, like, Nope,

1100
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:42,000
Speaker 1: get rid of those and just do what we tell

1101
01:09:42,040 --> 01:09:43,879
Speaker 1: you to. Don't stand by your values anymore.

1102
01:09:46,479 --> 01:09:49,880
Speaker 2: It's terrifying. It sounds like it. I mean, the research

1103
01:09:50,280 --> 01:09:53,160
Speaker 2: that you conducted at the Pentagon and the idea that

1104
01:09:53,160 --> 01:09:56,960
Speaker 2: the military is a family business. People who have parents

1105
01:09:57,360 --> 01:10:00,160
Speaker 2: who serve are more likely to serve themselves. What do

1106
01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:04,960
Speaker 2: you do when your parents are like, na, ceasefire on that, kiddo,

1107
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:09,439
Speaker 2: Like it's not a good time to join. Raises very

1108
01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:12,360
Speaker 2: serious questions of whether or not you can even have

1109
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:16,519
Speaker 2: an all volunteer force in five or ten years from now.

1110
01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:20,880
Speaker 2: And man, I don't know, amber you're a warrior. I

1111
01:10:21,400 --> 01:10:27,960
Speaker 2: want to be respectful of your time. How so, how

1112
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:31,479
Speaker 2: how has being an I want to talk about you now,

1113
01:10:32,640 --> 01:10:37,080
Speaker 2: How has being a warrior in a helicopter pilot shaped

1114
01:10:37,080 --> 01:10:39,120
Speaker 2: who you've become as a mom?

1115
01:10:43,160 --> 01:10:47,639
Speaker 1: I guess it's made me more critical and focused on

1116
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:50,760
Speaker 1: their future. And some of the things they are going

1117
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:54,680
Speaker 1: to be up against in this world. I know, like

1118
01:10:55,600 --> 01:11:00,400
Speaker 1: I want, I do get very concerned about the direction

1119
01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:04,880
Speaker 1: of this country and the divisiveness and how you're no

1120
01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:10,639
Speaker 1: longer to think critically or have a voice of your

1121
01:11:10,640 --> 01:11:14,160
Speaker 1: own without having to worry about going against the mainstream

1122
01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:18,759
Speaker 1: and the consequences that come with it. But like I said,

1123
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:23,640
Speaker 1: I grew up loving America, loving the freedoms that I

1124
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:26,400
Speaker 1: got to enjoy every day growing up, and I want

1125
01:11:26,479 --> 01:11:30,960
Speaker 1: to ensure that my children get to experience that level

1126
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:35,240
Speaker 1: of freedom, that level of opportunity, and the joys that

1127
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:38,679
Speaker 1: come with all of that. So it is very important

1128
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:42,640
Speaker 1: to me that I continue to fight that fight in

1129
01:11:42,720 --> 01:11:49,000
Speaker 1: my own way by helping preserve the America that I

1130
01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:53,320
Speaker 1: know in love and that I fought to protect and

1131
01:11:53,360 --> 01:11:58,320
Speaker 1: two wars for. And I can only hope that more

1132
01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:01,920
Speaker 1: Americans are waking up. I think if there is one

1133
01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:05,639
Speaker 1: silver lining to the disaster of the COVID nineteen response

1134
01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:10,719
Speaker 1: is that I think it did wake up some sleeping

1135
01:12:10,760 --> 01:12:16,040
Speaker 1: Americans to big government power and control and utilizing fear

1136
01:12:17,120 --> 01:12:20,240
Speaker 1: as a way to get that power and control. And

1137
01:12:20,280 --> 01:12:24,040
Speaker 1: so I do think that I hope that many Americans

1138
01:12:24,040 --> 01:12:29,680
Speaker 1: woke up to some of the tyranny that we are

1139
01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:34,120
Speaker 1: now seeing on our own doorsteps, which is terrifying and

1140
01:12:34,200 --> 01:12:39,680
Speaker 1: it happened very quickly. But I think it's important to

1141
01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:42,040
Speaker 1: find your voice, speak out about it.

1142
01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:45,160
Speaker 2: I totally agree, find your voice, speak out about it,

1143
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:50,120
Speaker 2: take a stand, think critically, think for yourself. Amber. This

1144
01:12:50,160 --> 01:12:55,160
Speaker 2: country is so lucky and blessed to have people like

1145
01:12:55,240 --> 01:12:59,200
Speaker 2: you in it. And thank you for coming on today.

1146
01:12:59,280 --> 01:13:01,479
Speaker 2: Thank you for your perspective, and thank you for joining

1147
01:13:01,479 --> 01:13:02,320
Speaker 2: me on Battleground.

1148
01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:07,200
Speaker 1: Can I say, Mamartha, of course you can. I just

1149
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:09,840
Speaker 1: want to say, Sean number one. I'm so excited for

1150
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:14,559
Speaker 1: this podcast because you're like made for it, and also

1151
01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:18,680
Speaker 1: so back in the day. You were my biggest advocate

1152
01:13:18,800 --> 01:13:20,840
Speaker 1: for getting my book off the ground, for telling me

1153
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:23,240
Speaker 1: that I have a story, for helping me find my voice,

1154
01:13:24,479 --> 01:13:28,080
Speaker 1: and being such a big supporter of my book with

1155
01:13:28,200 --> 01:13:31,040
Speaker 1: everything that I needed. And I just can't thank you

1156
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:36,120
Speaker 1: enough for being such an awesome person friend American. You're

1157
01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:40,040
Speaker 1: the real deal and America needs you. I know you're

1158
01:13:40,040 --> 01:13:40,840
Speaker 1: going to stay in the fight.

1159
01:13:41,920 --> 01:13:44,719
Speaker 2: Thanks Amber, I really appreciate that. Thank you for saying

1160
01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:46,800
Speaker 2: that you got it.

1161
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:47,880
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me on Sean.

1162
01:13:48,880 --> 01:13:52,639
Speaker 2: All right, everybody, that's a wrap. I hope you enjoyed

1163
01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:55,800
Speaker 2: my conversation with Amber. If you did, be sure to

1164
01:13:55,920 --> 01:14:02,040
Speaker 2: subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and and subscribe to

1165
01:14:02,080 --> 01:14:05,880
Speaker 2: my YouTube channel for more exclusive content. We need your help.

1166
01:14:06,479 --> 01:14:09,839
Speaker 2: This is a show for you. It cuts through all

1167
01:14:10,120 --> 01:14:14,479
Speaker 2: of the bs that is wholly dedicated to preserving the

1168
01:14:14,600 --> 01:14:17,759
Speaker 2: legacy of those who served and celebrating the greatest country

1169
01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:20,000
Speaker 2: on the face of the planet, the United States of America.

1170
01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:23,120
Speaker 2: Join us in that journey. We need you. If you

1171
01:14:23,280 --> 01:14:26,080
Speaker 2: like the podcast, send me an email, shoot me a

1172
01:14:26,080 --> 01:14:28,479
Speaker 2: message on social media. You know that I read them

1173
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:31,760
Speaker 2: and that I try to respond to everything and leave

1174
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:34,719
Speaker 2: a review because that helps us too. And as always,

1175
01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:39,440
Speaker 2: God bless you all, and God bless this incredible country

1176
01:14:39,640 --> 01:14:41,400
Speaker 2: that we live in. Take care

1177
01:15:01,479 --> 01:15:03,479
Speaker 1: Us