1 00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound on 2 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 1: Ticketmaster Auto. Look in the mirror and say I'm the problem. 3 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: It's me. It's primary ticketing companies and footing. Ticketmaster do 4 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: not set ticket price. The FTC has only enforced this. 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: What Bloomberg Sound on Politics, Policy and perspective from DC's 6 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: top names. You got Trump, you got pinched, you got Biden. 7 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: The only thing I think you'll find it my house 8 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 1: is a bunch of Chick fil A bags on the floor. 9 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 1: So how many other secrets are just sort of out 10 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: in the world. Have nothing to see here, There's nothing 11 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: there there? And then all of a sudden there was 12 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Senators 13 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: blast live Nation, But should the government break up the company? 14 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to the fastest hour in politics as the company 15 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: behind Ticketmaster faces antitrust questions after the whole Taylor Swift 16 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: meltdown last year and years of background were joined by 17 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: Republican Senator Marshall Blackburn, who co sponsored legislation to prohibit 18 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 1: ticket scalpers from ruining the show. Later, more classified documents 19 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: are discovered. This time it Mike Pence, his home in Indiana. 20 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:15,040 Speaker 1: Something here may need to change, as we will discuss 21 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: with our panel, and as Microsoft invest billions in artificial intelligence, 22 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: we explore Washington's role in regulating a technology that's improving 23 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: faster than most mortals realize. We'll have more with David Kirkpatrick, 24 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: founder of Techonomy Analysis. As I mentioned from our signature panel, 25 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis and Genie Schanzano with us 26 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,960 Speaker 1: for the hour. Someone suggest today's hearing before the Senate 27 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: Judiciary Committee was long overdue, recalling that Live Nation merged 28 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: with Ticketmaster in two and today's senators blame the company's 29 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: market dominance for soaring ticket prices and a terrible customer experience. 30 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: You know it is serious when the Swifties show up 31 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: to protests more. We've had enough enough. It's like this 32 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 1: brings us back to November when Ticketmaster, remember, canceled public 33 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: sales for the Taylor Swift Tour after its site crashed 34 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: under massive demand. Senator Dick Durbin, who chairs the committee, 35 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: says that is what you get when one company controls 36 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: the market. In the decade plus since the merger, Live 37 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: Nation has consolidated its dominant position in the ticketing and 38 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 1: live entertainment markets, and the result is a competition killing 39 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: strategy that has left artists and fans paying the price. 40 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 1: On the panel, the CEO, among others, the CEO of 41 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: Live Nation, Joe Birch told who says it's not us 42 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: primary ticketing companies, including Ticketmaster, do not set ticket prices. 43 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: We do not decide how many tickets go on sale 44 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: and when, and we do not set service fees. This 45 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: is where we begin with Senator Shift Blackburn, Republican from Tennessee, 46 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,519 Speaker 1: who not only serves on that committee, questions all of 47 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: these people today, but as I mentioned, co sponsored legislation 48 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: in to stop industrial scalpers from scooping up all the tickets, 49 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 1: sending prices higher, blocking the rest of us. This may 50 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: sound familiar to you, Senator, welcome back to Bloomberg Radio. 51 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: What's great to have you should Live Nation be broken up. 52 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: I think what we want to see is Ticketmaster Live 53 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: Nation began to work with the industry and for the FTC, 54 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: the Federal Trade Commission, to actually implement the Bots Act, 55 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: which was passed in two I was in the House 56 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: at that point, and they have only used it one 57 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 1: time in that period of time to go after an 58 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: enforcement action against a company that was using bots to 59 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: scoop up these tickets. So is there a remedy to this? 60 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: Is it a fixable issue? Yes, indeed it is. And 61 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: when I questioned Ticketmaster today, they said they had only 62 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: called FTC one time. Are called on them for their 63 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: help only one time because of a bot. And the 64 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: problem is they are catching some of the bots that 65 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: go on their side, but not most of the bots, 66 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: and not all of the bots. So that is why 67 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 1: people are having trouble getting tickets to live entertainment venues, 68 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: to movies, to Broadway plays, to college football games and 69 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: special events. This will sound familiar, Like I said to 70 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:45,720 Speaker 1: a lot of our listeners here, some tickets are going 71 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: on sale at ten o'clock in the morning. There they 72 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 1: are at ten o'clock, blam, and they're already gone. So Senator, 73 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: for the sake of the benefit of our listeners, will 74 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: we say bots and we say scalpers. They're kind of 75 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: the scene thing here, right, because we've been hearing a 76 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 1: lot about bots with Twitter, for instance, these sort of 77 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: unknown faceless accounts. Industrial scalpers use an algorithm of some sort. 78 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: Is that what they're doing to get the bots so called, 79 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 1: to buy the tickets. That's exactly right. And this is 80 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:20,239 Speaker 1: why Senator Schumer and I in two sixteen said, look, 81 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: this needs to be held to account. These are industrial bots, 82 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: are algorithms that go in. They're built to scoop tickets 83 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 1: in a certain manner, and customers may go in choose 84 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: their seats, and they go to check out and all 85 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 1: of a sudden they have no tickets. And what has 86 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: happened is a bot has scooped up those tickets. They 87 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: do it within a matter of seconds. They moved to 88 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: the checkout, they pay for the tickets, and then they 89 00:05:55,120 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: immediately post them on the secondary market. Risk could be 90 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: on stub hub, it could be on seat geek, and 91 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 1: they will many times double triple, quadruple at the price, 92 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: so the consumer can't get anything on the side, or 93 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 1: when the window opens and they're able to buy, and 94 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: then they can't afford what is offered on the resale side. 95 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: Who are these scalpers and are they even in this country? 96 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 1: Many times they are people that will be outside the country, 97 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 1: or they are groups that have developed these algorithms. You 98 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: can say, I need an algorithm to scoop up purchases 99 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: of t shirts or tennis shoes or our tickets for 100 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: different events. You develop the algorithm, they scoop the tickets 101 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: and then move to resell. And I think part of 102 00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:00,359 Speaker 1: the problem also is not only is ft S not 103 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: enforcing the bots act should and not only are the 104 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: company's hesitant or Ticketmaster is hesitant to call on FTC 105 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: to enforce the bill, but you also have um these bonds, 106 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: these companies that are scooping these tickets, scalping these tickets, 107 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: that know that Ticketmaster is not going to do anything. 108 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: So therefore they actually are so confident they do spec 109 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: sales what is called spect set, and before the tickets 110 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: even go on sale. And this is a problem with 111 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: the Madonna tour. They're already selling those tickets on the 112 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: secondary market because they know that Ticketmaster will not do 113 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: anything to them. And Ticketmasters said, well, we catch about 114 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: nine of the bots that are on our site. Well, 115 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: you know, most of our banks and credit card processors, 116 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 1: um healthcare companies, utilities like the electric power distributor of 117 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: the water company, they catch nine point nine of their 118 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: cyber attacks. Are their hackers. They get hit thousands of 119 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: times a day and they thwart those hackers and those 120 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: bots from getting in their system. But for some reason, 121 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: it appears that Ticketmaster has not figured out how to 122 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: build a secure perimeter around their site and to protect 123 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 1: the consumers and to protect the consumer data that they 124 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: are collecting. There's a lot here. The CEO who I mentioned, 125 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: Joe Birchtold, of the CEO of Live Nation, told Senator 126 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: Blackburn and the others on the panel not only were 127 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: there bots, but unprecedented bots for that Taylor Swift tour. 128 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: Here's how he described it. The recent on sale experience 129 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 1: with Taylor Swift, one of the world's most popular artists, 130 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: has highlighted the need to address these these issues urgently. 131 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,079 Speaker 1: We knew bots would attack that on sale and planned accordingly. 132 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: We were then hit with three times the amount of 133 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: bot traffic that we'd ever experienced, and for the first 134 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 1: time in four verified fan on sales, they came after 135 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: our verified fan pass password servers as well, so they 136 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 1: got not only three times the bots, they got a 137 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: cyber attack while they were at it. And by the way, 138 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: Senator I realized those could be the same thing or 139 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 1: somehow coordinated. Is this a company that's been victimized by 140 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: industrial scalpers or one that is tacitly working with them. 141 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:52,679 Speaker 1: I think you're getting at here to let them in. 142 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 1: What we want to figure out is why they do 143 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: not go to the FTC and report this. Why have 144 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: they not uh changed their encryption policies to eliminate these bots, 145 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: these scalpers. Why are they not making the effort to 146 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: secure that information. Those are questions that we want to know. 147 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: Ticketmaster also bear in mind if you buy a ticket 148 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: to a concert, and you buy it on the secondary market, 149 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: you still have to go to Ticketmaster in order to 150 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:34,359 Speaker 1: activate that ticket. You have to go on their website. 151 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 1: Once you get to their website, they may point you 152 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: to right share services or hertel rooms or restaurants or 153 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: any other services that may be connected to that event, 154 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: and then they're capturing that data. This is a revenue 155 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: stream for them because they are then able to monetize 156 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: your data. UH. They are able to market back to 157 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: you when there are other concerts uh that you are 158 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: wanting to go to, or a certain genre of entertainment 159 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 1: that you enjoy. So the customer is the product when 160 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 1: they are doing business with Ticketmaster. The Ticketmaster app is 161 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: one of the most downloaded and has one of the 162 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: highest number of unique users per month of any of 163 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: the apps that you're going to find in the app store. 164 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 1: The Justice Department found in that Live Nation violated terms 165 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: of its merger settlement. New conditions were imposed. We're still 166 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:47,439 Speaker 1: talking about it here. If enforcing the Bots Act doesn't 167 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: do the job, why allow Live Nation to continue in 168 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: its career in form and this will be another discussion, 169 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: a separate part of the discussion that we go through. 170 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:04,359 Speaker 1: We want to make certain that the Bots Act is enforced, 171 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: that companies are complying with it, that companies are working 172 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: with the FTC. If that does not clean up the marketplace, 173 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: so to speak, then going in and looking at the 174 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: structure of Ticketmaster Live Nation, looking at what they are 175 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: or are not doing to protect consumers that are on 176 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: that side. So this was not just today's hearing. This 177 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,839 Speaker 1: is far from over. It sounds like correct, and we 178 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: have worked tirelessly on this issue, not only at Judiciary Committee, 179 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:42,439 Speaker 1: but also at the Commerce Committee and the Consumer Protection 180 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 1: Data Security Committee that Senator Blumensaal chairs, and I'm the 181 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: top Republican on that committee. And we continue to work 182 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,559 Speaker 1: on this to protect the consumer in the online marketplace. 183 00:12:56,280 --> 00:13:01,319 Speaker 1: The issue around ticket sales for the news and events 184 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 1: is an issue that we continue to hear from consumers. 185 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 1: This is a problem. It is not a fair marketplace. 186 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: It is not a level playing field. Senator Blackburn, you've 187 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: been very generous with your time. I just want to 188 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 1: ask you quickly while you're with us about this endless 189 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 1: saga involving classified documents. I do not want to start 190 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: a Biden versus Trump fight here, but now that we 191 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: know that Mike Pence also had some classified documents in 192 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: his home in Indiana. UH. Senator Lindsey Graham for instances 193 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: among those suggesting we may need a new system here? 194 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: Does does the Senate? Does Congress need to step in 195 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: here and update the Presidential Records Act? What needs to happen? 196 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 1: There are some of us today that have had this 197 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: discussion because you're now looking at President Biden as not 198 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 1: only vice president, but as a member of the Senate 199 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: who ended up with classified documents, and of as, we 200 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: want to view a classified document, we go to the 201 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: skiff and we read that. So it's hard to imagine 202 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,839 Speaker 1: how someone ends up with these in their home or 203 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: not properly caring for these documents and cleaning up that process, 204 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: making certain that we tighten those protocols and how the 205 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: documents are viewed, when and where they're viewed, how you 206 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: signed them in, sign them out. Uh. That is an 207 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: appropriate step to take, and I think you're going to 208 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: see us move forward fairly soon with reviewing those protocols 209 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: and making any changes we feel are necessary. Is that 210 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: something that would come from the Judiciary Committee? It would indeed, Well, 211 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: we've got that. That's an important, uh, piece of news 212 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: that you just made. Is that something you want to 213 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: see happen this year? I would love to see this 214 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: happen this year so that everyone under and there is 215 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: a reason we protect this information. We do not want 216 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: to harm our sources or our processes, and it is 217 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: important that we have a protocol in place that is 218 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 1: going to be strictly followed. There's a lot there. Senator Blackburn, 219 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: thank you for joining us today on Bloomberg Radio. As always, 220 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: Marshall Blackburn, Republican from Tennessee, of course, the home of Nashville, 221 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: which had a big stake in the hearing. Today. We've 222 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: got a lot to go through with the panel here. 223 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 1: Rick Davis is back. Jeanie Schanzano is with us Bloomberg 224 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: Politics contributors quickly in our moment, uh that we have 225 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: here remaining uh Rick the News on documents will tackle 226 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: when we are a little bit later in the hour. 227 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: I want to ask you about splitting up Live Nation. 228 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: Why go through the process of that hearing today and 229 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: allow the company to continue? Well, I think one that 230 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: Senator Blackburn really pointed out well is how they basically 231 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: thrown the customer. Throwing the consumer under the bus. There's 232 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: no protection against these bots. But more importantly, even um 233 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: they have dominated the concert scene. So you know, it's 234 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: very hard, if not impossible, to get a Live Nation 235 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: concert in a hall that isn't already given to Ticketmaster 236 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: for for tickets. So if it's a quid pro quo, 237 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: it locks in this this this relationship between the two, 238 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: that it is anti competitive. So I think that's the 239 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: definition of a monopoly. Hold that thought. Rick will bring 240 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: Genie in on this as well. Straight ahead on Bloomberg, 241 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 1: may I suggest respectfully that Ticketmaster auto look in the 242 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: mirror and say I'm the problem. It's me. So all 243 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: the senators, they all loved Taylor Swift, the number of 244 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: lyrics references I heard in that Judiciary Committee today. Impressive. 245 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: That was the staff, right is Richard bloomin Fall quote 246 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: Taylor Swift a lot. So here's the thing, this got 247 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: so far road, so many members showed up with the 248 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: same idea. No, Sebastian not going to shake it off. 249 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: That we actually have a story written up on the 250 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:24,479 Speaker 1: terminal quoting all of the long makers using Taylor's swift 251 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: lyrics in the Judiciary Committee. I'm Joe, Matthew and Washington. 252 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 1: Glad you came along. It's Bloomberg sound on or our 253 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: panel is here as we try to understand what's happening. 254 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: Rick Davis and Jeannie Schanzano Bloomberg Politics contributors. We heard 255 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:39,919 Speaker 1: from Rick for just a second. Gene, like to hear 256 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: from you too, because we're talking about a potential anti 257 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: trust issue. Then again, hearing from Senator Marshall Blackburn, she says, no, 258 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 1: just enforced the rules already on the books. This is her, 259 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 1: by the way, the senator from Tennessee in today's hearing. 260 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 1: Before she spoke with us, we all know the Bots 261 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: Act is something when I was in the House that 262 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 1: got past sign into law. Senator Schumer had carried that 263 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: over in the Senate. The FTC has only enforced this once, 264 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: and they've had the authority to do this since sixteen, 265 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: So this is an unacceptable situation. Jennie, do we think 266 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:20,360 Speaker 1: that that would have made a difference if it had 267 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,399 Speaker 1: been enforced more aggressively? You know, I do think it 268 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: may have made a difference. And yes, Joe Matthew, we 269 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,479 Speaker 1: are all swift ease today along Senator Blumenthal and many others. 270 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: I do think it would have made a difference. You know, 271 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 1: listening to your discussion with with Mercia Blackburn and we 272 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,360 Speaker 1: heard her say something to this effect, although I thought 273 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: she was pretty strong with you, um when she says 274 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: to you know, this billion dollar company, the local power 275 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: company down the road can guard against bots and you can't. 276 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: And that does raise to your point the specter, are 277 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 1: they working with these bots to let them in? And 278 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,719 Speaker 1: this is a real, real problem. So yes, I do 279 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: think the Bots Act is very very important. I also 280 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: think the reality is is that when this was passed 281 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 1: in or this, you know, they were joined. We were 282 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: assured by the federal officials that you know, this was 283 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: going to be fine, and everything was going to work 284 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: out there was going to be competition. Well, eight, ten, 285 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: fifteen years later, there is not that competition and it 286 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: must be addressed. And so this was a really important 287 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: hearing today. And I do think they're gonna have to 288 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: seriously consider is this a monopoly and do they need 289 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:28,399 Speaker 1: to be broken up now because we were sold a 290 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: bill of goods here. Well, so let's pick up where 291 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: we left off then, Rick, Is this a matter of 292 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,199 Speaker 1: enforcing rules on the books or do we have an 293 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: anti trust problem here where the FTC needs to go 294 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 1: on and say we made a big mistake ten years ago. Well, 295 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,239 Speaker 1: I think it's both probably. I mean, you know, we 296 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 1: know that they're not using the FTC to help guard 297 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: their own software and they're not doing enough to you know, 298 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 1: keep the box off their system. So that's certainly one 299 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 1: where there are things that are available for them to help. 300 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 1: But there's anti competitive behay you're of basically telling venues 301 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: that you can't get live Nation acts if you don't 302 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:08,399 Speaker 1: have UM ticketmasters your sales unit. UM. You know, just 303 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: smacks an investigation into anti competitive behavior and uh, and 304 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: yet their hands are to this, you know, in Centator 305 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 1: Bloominghal really focused on this is Oh, it's not us, 306 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: it's everybody else to lack of competition, it's other people 307 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: aren't doing their job. When you're a dominant player in 308 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: an industry that's this big, in this diverse and this public, uh, 309 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: you better have a better track record than these guys 310 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: are bringing to Congress. Well, we'll see how this ends. 311 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 1: It's something that is obviously on the front burner today. 312 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 1: Let's see how much we're talking about this a couple 313 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 1: of weeks down the road. You know how these hearings 314 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: can go sometimes, By the way, Rick, you've managed your 315 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: your share of of Senate hearings. Was it the staff 316 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 1: bringing the lyrics in? Or do these lawmakers all have kids? 317 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: How come everyone's a Taylor Swift fan. Don't underestimate the 318 00:20:55,880 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: Taylor Swift reach into the highest venues of power in Washington. Um. 319 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:02,400 Speaker 1: You know that's the fact that this might as well 320 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 1: have been called the Taylor Swift Hearing should indicate to 321 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 1: you that everybody's on board with her soundtrack. Incidentally, a genie. 322 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: I don't know if did you hear the name this? 323 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: Actually every hearing has a name right as a title. 324 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: Today the hearing was titled that's the ticket. With apologies 325 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 1: to Tommy Flanagan on SNL, It's the only thing I 326 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 1: could think of until, of course, all the Taylor Swift 327 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,479 Speaker 1: stuff got in my head. Now, documents, you've got them, 328 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 1: We miss Tommy Flanagan. We have to get to the documents. 329 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: Here did Lindsey Graham put it best today? Here? He 330 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:40,160 Speaker 1: is the Senator, of course, Republican weighing in here from 331 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: the briefing room in the Senate gallery. So let's find 332 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 1: out how that happened. You got Trump, you got pent, 333 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: you got Biden. The only thing I think you'll find 334 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 1: it my house is a bunch of Chick fil A 335 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 1: bags on the floor. The bottom line is, I don't 336 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: I don't know how this happened. We need to get 337 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 1: to the bottom of it. I don't believe for a 338 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: minute that my pants is trying to intentionally compromise, compromise 339 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: national security. Think that about Biden and Trump, But clearly 340 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: we've got a problem here. We have a problem here, 341 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: and Marcia Blackburn just a moment ago told us, yeah, 342 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: it's time to take another look at this system. Genie, 343 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: uh is this I I know I'm going to get 344 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:17,679 Speaker 1: political here, but that's what we do on this show. 345 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 1: This is actually good news for Joe Biden and even 346 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: by extension, Donald Trump, because it's starting to look like 347 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: everyone's doing this. Yeah. First of all, if I was 348 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: Lindsay Graham, I'd be a little careful because it seems 349 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: like once somebody says, oh I got nothing, Yeah, next 350 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: thing you know, they're in their living room and there 351 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: they are, next to the corvette. So you know, yeah, 352 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: I do think it does help Trump and Biden quite frankly, 353 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: because you know, we had been talking for so many 354 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: months about the fact, you know, irresponsible, can't imagine how 355 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,400 Speaker 1: this could happen, and it seems like every day it's 356 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 1: another drip, and I suspect we will hear more because 357 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: of course everybody is now scouring their basements, inviting in 358 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: lawyers to look for these documents. And you know, Marcia 359 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: Blackburn is exactly right. They do need to address this. 360 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 1: This is not the result of one person. There is 361 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 1: a problem with the way the United States handles it's 362 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: classified information that much has to be agreed on. This 363 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 1: is Senator Marshall Blackbourn. Just a moment ago here on 364 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,880 Speaker 1: sound I think you're going to see us move forward 365 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 1: fairly soon with reviewing those protocols and making any changes 366 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: we feel are necessary. Is there a way to kind 367 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: of take this out of the hands of politicians or 368 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: government leaders? Rick, or is this the sunlight that's needed 369 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 1: to let's get it all out. Let's see who's got them, 370 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: Because people don't want to end up in a headline 371 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: for having classified documents in their home tomorrow. Mike Pence 372 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 1: in this case, a small number of documents marked as 373 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:49,919 Speaker 1: classified at his home in Indiana. Yeah, I would. I 374 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: would say this is exceedingly disappointing that, Um, there are 375 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: elected officials who we give the benefit of seeing this information. Um, 376 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,119 Speaker 1: you know, aren't guarding it in the way that the 377 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: government rules and laws of our nation require them to do. Right, 378 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: This was an issue with with all of them. Uh, 379 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,120 Speaker 1: they're not supposed to have these documents. And it goes 380 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 1: well beyond the Presidential Records Act that Senator Blackburn was 381 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 1: talking about. I mean that obviously needs to be looked 382 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,479 Speaker 1: at and reviewed, but our entire classification program, I mean, like, 383 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 1: why in the world would we even consider a document 384 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: that was probably sitting around since Joe Biden was Senator 385 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: and his Uh, in his corvette trunk or in the garage. 386 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: Do we really think that's even classified at this point? Um? 387 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: And and why does he even have it? So? Uh? Look, 388 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: this actually to me screams an opportunity for government reform. 389 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: There needs to be a commission. People have been barking 390 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,199 Speaker 1: about the classification system being all screwed up for a 391 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,159 Speaker 1: long period of time. I mean, you basically have the 392 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 1: same information on the front page of the Wall Street 393 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 1: Journal that you have as a classified document in many cases, 394 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: and and and and I think a commission ought to 395 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 1: be appointed right away to take a look at how 396 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: each classified documents, what the chain of custody is, Why 397 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: is it breaking down, because you can't argue that it's 398 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: not broken down, and and and and what do we 399 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: need to put in place as a government to ensure 400 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: that our nation's top secrets are kept. The narrative right 401 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: now in some corners, at least in Washington, Genie particularly, 402 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: this is this is about the Biden docks. This Pence 403 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,640 Speaker 1: thing is nobody could believe it when that pop this afternoon. 404 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 1: But there's a thought that that Democrats are leaking this 405 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,159 Speaker 1: stuff on Joe Biden because they don't want him to 406 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 1: run for re election. Karine John Pierre was even asked 407 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:38,160 Speaker 1: about it today. Dick Durban calls it unthinkable. Are Democrats 408 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,880 Speaker 1: using this as a lever to make him a one 409 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 1: term president? You know, I have to agree, I think 410 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: that is unthinkable. I did hear that Joe Rogan was 411 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 1: speculating about it, not that he was in the White 412 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,640 Speaker 1: House briefing room, certainly, although to his credit he's your 413 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,439 Speaker 1: enthusiast about it from Fox though, you better believe, and 414 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 1: that is the narrative going on. There's also another narrative, 415 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 1: by the way, which is that this helps Biden strangely, 416 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: because the more Trump is around, the better off Biden is. 417 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: So if this helps resurrect Trump, and we have actually 418 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,880 Speaker 1: seen in the last few days, Trump's poll numbers vis 419 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: via Santis go up a bit. Now, who knows what 420 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,640 Speaker 1: that's you know, related to? But you know, I can't. 421 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: I it's hard to even imagine that anything like that 422 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 1: could happen. What did they go back to two thousand 423 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,679 Speaker 1: and nine and put documents near the corvette? Well, but 424 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: if if somebody knew something, Rick, is the call coming 425 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,640 Speaker 1: from inside the house? Uh? No, I I don't think so, 426 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 1: I mean, this is kind of Marjorie Taylor Green territory, right, 427 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 1: I mean, like conspiracy theory. Can't we cook up today? Look? 428 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: I mean like, you know, you gotta believe Biden when 429 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 1: you know people were looking around for stuff and found 430 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: it and then you know, we said go find some more. 431 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: And of course you know Pence exactly the same thing. Hey, 432 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: I better check my drawers. The real question is what's 433 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: wrong with you know, Barack Obama. Why hasn't he got something? 434 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 1: Does he want to be left out of this story? 435 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,199 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, George w I guarantee it in 436 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: his sock drawer. He's got some stuff, you know. And 437 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 1: so like I mean you said, when we have a 438 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: system in place to to to guarantee our secrecy, Rick 439 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: Davis and Gennie Chanzano make our signature panel. This is 440 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: Bloomberg So Long with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Many 441 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 1: references to skynet and the matrix. Since chat GPTs entered 442 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: the lexicon, are you on this? Have you even seen it? 443 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 1: I'm on the waitlist, Like, well, maybe you and a 444 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: lot of other people. Artificial intelligence and specifically chat GPTs 445 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: reaching a new level here in the past week with 446 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: a ten billion dollar investment by Microsoft in open AI 447 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: that's the company that makes chat GPT, making it clear 448 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: this is all going mainstream. I love Tyler Cowen's Bloomberg 449 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: opinion column this week headline AI is improving faster than 450 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:03,360 Speaker 1: most humans real lies. Indeed, this could be a very 451 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,199 Speaker 1: mature technology before a lot of people even understand what 452 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: it is. And you know what's next a call in 453 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: Washington to regulate it artificial intelligence. Even Elon Musk is 454 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: afraid of it. He's got that neural link company that 455 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: why are is your brain? To keep the AI out? 456 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 1: Have we all seen too many movies? Is this becoming sensational? 457 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,119 Speaker 1: Is this actually something that will help our lives? David 458 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: Kirkpatrick joins us. I'm glad to say, founder of Techonomy 459 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 1: back with us on Bloomberg Radio. David, I don't think 460 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: you're a sensationalist, but does this give you pause to 461 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: think that it will need to be regulated? Thanks Joe. 462 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: I guess yes. I'd say that I think any super 463 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: powerful technology will benefit from some degree of understanding and 464 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: oversight by government. But that isn't really saying very much 465 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 1: because it's almost never proven to be something that actually 466 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: happened in past eras of text. So while we can say, yes, 467 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: this is something that probably needs to be regulated, the 468 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: chances of that happening in the near term in the 469 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: United States are probably not huge. I'm curious, uh why, 470 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: and I'm asking you that in a in a city 471 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: that's been talking about regulating crypto for longer than a 472 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: lot of people knew about crypto, and we still have 473 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 1: basically nothing, all right, exactly, So that's where you're coming from. 474 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: Is that informed by what's happening or what's actually needed? David, Well, 475 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: you know, artificial intelligence is such a multifaceted arena. I mean, 476 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 1: it isn't like we could easily come up with clear 477 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 1: regulations that would be agreed to by both parties and 478 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 1: average citizens. So unfortunately, that's the problem with fast moving technology. 479 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 1: It often it's even though you can say, yeah, we 480 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: ought to have some guardrails here, it's not necessarily obvious 481 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: exactly where the guardrails ought to be placed. Um. Interestingly, 482 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: in recent times, UM most of the best regulatory efforts 483 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: have come out of Europe, but even there they've taken 484 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: years and years. In most instances to be developed and deployed. Um. 485 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: But now Europe is kind of setting the standard for 486 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 1: a lot of areas, and a lot of other geographical 487 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 1: regions and countries are mimicking regulations that come out of 488 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 1: Europe that could very well happen this time as well. Uh. 489 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: In case you haven't heard about this, By the way, 490 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: this is we're not talking about skynet here. This is 491 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: open a eyes viral artificial intelligence bot. It's it's it's 492 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: called a chat bot. Alright. Microsoft is investing in this. 493 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: We'll add it to its Azure service soon. They see 494 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 1: it being used by law offices, by clinics in the 495 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: year ahead. Uh, it's it's becoming very pot It are 496 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: in newsrooms, actually trading floors, boardrooms to that end. Uh. 497 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 1: You do wonder about its accuracy and about this getting 498 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 1: out of our hands here, David. Even in this most 499 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 1: practical sort of consumer facing version that we're talking about, well, 500 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 1: it isn't accurate. That's one thing that's increasingly obvious. Um. 501 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: If you do use it, as some are already doing 502 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 1: in law firms or newspaper articles or you know, customer 503 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: service interactions, you better be careful to check the things 504 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 1: it says because it isn't always factually correct, and one 505 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: of the problems with it, one of the many problems 506 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: with it, is that it doesn't even seem to know 507 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: when it's correct, and if you tell it it's incorrect, 508 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: it often asserts that no, it was in fact correct. 509 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: And you know, it is uncanny because you can have 510 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: a dialogue with it that's very much like having a 511 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 1: conversation with another human And and there's no question this 512 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: is a major major breakthrough, especially in terms of communication 513 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 1: about technology, because in fact, this kind of system has 514 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 1: been around for a while, it's just been gated behind 515 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: the closed doors of a number of the big tech 516 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 1: companies that were afraid to release it and open AI. 517 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: This start up, with a lot of funding from Elon 518 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: Musk and Peter TiO and Microsoft and others, took the 519 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 1: chance of putting it out into the wild, so to speak. 520 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: But there's a lot of other versions of it that 521 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: may even be of higher qualities that are not yet released. 522 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: Have you used or are you using chat GPT? I've 523 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 1: used it. In fact, I used it a little bit 524 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: this afternoon just to prepare for this conversation. It is 525 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: it is easy to use. Sometimes it's hard to get 526 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: access to right now because there's so much demand for 527 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: that's the problem. Most people are on a waiting list 528 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 1: and don't actually realize what's waiting for them there when 529 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: you ask it a question, Uh, how does it speak 530 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 1: to you? Is there attribution? Where's this information coming from? Well, 531 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 1: it'sn't clear always. You don't really know. It's just peering 532 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: on the screen in a little box. Uh, there is 533 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 1: no attribution generally given. And if you ask the software 534 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 1: to tell you the attribution for whatever it just told you, 535 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: it sometimes appears to simply make up citations. That's something 536 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 1: a number of journalists have discovered in recent weeks. So 537 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 1: it's a it's a real morass, but it's still so 538 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: exciting and it's been fascinating because clearly there are a 539 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 1: lot of wonderful things that it can make possible. David, 540 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 1: thanks for coming in. David Kirkpatrick, founder of Techonomy, a 541 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 1: tech focused conference company. That's some guessing going to be 542 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: dealing with this a lot. He's already using it. Quick 543 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 1: turn from our panel on this, Genie Chanzino and Rick Davis. 544 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: I don't know if you're putting your tinfoil hats on here. 545 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 1: But Genie Washington has an eye on this. But will 546 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 1: it do anything about it? You know, I think that 547 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: is the million dollar question. I have to tell you. 548 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: We had a long conversation about this on campus today 549 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: where all universities are talking about this because of course 550 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 1: students can use it to write essays and papers and 551 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 1: traditional Yeah, so it's really really tough for everybody. But 552 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 1: you know, in terms of regulation, the crypto example is 553 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: a great one, and I would just say, look at 554 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: how much money the crypto industry gave in the mid 555 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,360 Speaker 1: term election and where that money was going. So we 556 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 1: have to think about how much knowledge people in Washington 557 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: have and when people are coming in from these industries, 558 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 1: how much they're influencing the regulation that may potentially come 559 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: out of it, because there is something of a revolving 560 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 1: door in Washington, d C. So I am not confident 561 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: we are going to see good regulation in the near 562 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 1: future in any of these levels. Are we wasting our 563 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,280 Speaker 1: time asking these questions? Rickets and Nason Technology and Washington 564 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,439 Speaker 1: is never ahead of the curve. Well, it's never ahead 565 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,759 Speaker 1: of the curve, You're right, But Washington needs to wake 566 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,719 Speaker 1: up and listen to what's going on around the world, because, uh, 567 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 1: it is a nason technology, but it's catching up fast 568 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,920 Speaker 1: and a little bit goes a long way. And you 569 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,360 Speaker 1: talk about both at a national security level and in 570 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:06,880 Speaker 1: a basic human level, and we don't have the parameters 571 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:12,120 Speaker 1: in place. Uh. In ninety there was a National commission, 572 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 1: national Security Commission on AI headed by Eric Schmidt that 573 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: came out with a bunch of recommendations on how to 574 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,800 Speaker 1: manage this. From a war fighting point of view, cyber 575 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 1: has become a significant weapon that hits both civilian and 576 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 1: military targets. And if you have AI managing that for you, 577 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 1: it takes a human element out of it. Same goes 578 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 1: with some of these issues related to AI in the 579 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 1: human condition outside of the military. And and I would say, 580 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 1: we're going to be talking about this a lot more 581 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 1: often this year and in the coming future if we 582 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,919 Speaker 1: expect to not only remain competitive, but also, uh, make 583 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 1: sure that that we have humans on the throttle of AI. 584 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 1: When I hear Rick Davis talk about it, that sounds 585 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 1: a lot closer to skynet. But can it host a 586 00:35:53,719 --> 00:36:00,719 Speaker 1: radio program? I'm Joe Matthew, this is Bloomberg. You Bloomberg 587 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: So Long with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio Bloomberg Sound On. 588 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,280 Speaker 1: Brought to you by Innovation Refunds. It's your daily reminder 589 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: from Innovation Refunds. The e r C is not alone, 590 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 1: it's your money. You're small to medium sized business may 591 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 1: be eligible to receive for keeping employees on payroll in 592 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:24,960 Speaker 1: twenty one. Get an estimate of your company's potential refund today. 593 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 1: Learn more at get refunds dot com. So we all 594 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,799 Speaker 1: went to bed last night thinking, God, what could it be? 595 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: What will happen? After? George Santos tweeted a little tease, 596 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 1: looking forward to being back on Capitol Hill this week. 597 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 1: He wrote, to serve New York's third District, I also 598 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:50,280 Speaker 1: have a surprise for the quote unquote journalists, he writes, 599 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:55,760 Speaker 1: assigned to stake out side of my office. Can't wait 600 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,160 Speaker 1: to see you guys, he writes. So people showed up. 601 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,279 Speaker 1: This was actually sunny yesterday. There was nothing going on here. 602 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 1: Today we got the answer the surprise. Doughnuts. Yeah, thank 603 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 1: you so much for being here and doing your job. 604 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:18,800 Speaker 1: Set up a box of duncan Thank you seriously, thank you. 605 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:24,280 Speaker 1: What's our plan today? Back to the question. Keep Today's 606 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,400 Speaker 1: plan to answer your question is to work for the 607 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 1: American people. Legislate. That's what I got hired to do. 608 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 1: So you can you can look forward to some pull 609 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,279 Speaker 1: stuff coming out of this Office series. All right, thank 610 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:38,920 Speaker 1: you guys. So he's he's there to legislate. Feed the press, 611 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: and you know, people were very flattered by the question 612 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,400 Speaker 1: things don't know when you're trying to hide from reporters, 613 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,680 Speaker 1: you have to be precise. Do you get in the office, 614 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,000 Speaker 1: you close the door. He forgot he had to come 615 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,160 Speaker 1: out and set up the flag, set up the pow 616 00:37:54,280 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 1: flag outside of the Here we comes again. Guys, you're welcome. 617 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 1: Thanks for the donuts. Hey, thanks for the doughnuts. George Santos, 618 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: the gift that keeps on giving to our panel. Rick 619 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 1: Davis and Jeannie Chanzano Bloomberg Politics contributors. Uh, Jeanie, you're 620 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,280 Speaker 1: you're there in New York. You missed out on the donuts. 621 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 1: You're in d C. Yes, if only I could have 622 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,399 Speaker 1: been there. You know, he's saying looking forward to being back. Well, 623 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,319 Speaker 1: you know who's not looking forward to him being back 624 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:37,279 Speaker 1: His own constituents who are now petitioning Kevin McCarthy to 625 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 1: get him the heck out of Congress. So between that 626 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,319 Speaker 1: and you know, him being saddened by what John I 627 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,960 Speaker 1: can seldom understand John Kennedy. But that was a bizarre 628 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,520 Speaker 1: reference to the bunny boiler and it hurts forwards George 629 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,440 Speaker 1: Santos feelings. So he made up for it with coffee 630 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,239 Speaker 1: and doughnuts. Apparently I'm so confused so often it was 631 00:38:56,360 --> 00:39:00,759 Speaker 1: very confusing, Rick, I mean, this is this is at least, 632 00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 1: you know, a premeditated moves, trying to take control of 633 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 1: this thing. You put out some donuts for the reporters 634 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,239 Speaker 1: at the door. What do you think, Yeah, well, I've 635 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,439 Speaker 1: been feeding donuts to reporters all my career and it's 636 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:14,720 Speaker 1: the one thing that gets right to their heart. Although 637 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 1: he made the one strategic mistake that no congressman should 638 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:23,120 Speaker 1: ever make. He served them duncan don't that was going 639 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,080 Speaker 1: to cross the stakeout, you know, in front of his office. 640 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 1: You deserve a Crispy crane, not one of those bargain 641 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,879 Speaker 1: basement doughnuts. Like well, you know, I don't know, he's 642 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:37,400 Speaker 1: a Northeastern guy. I think this is this is what happens, Genie. 643 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,759 Speaker 1: He says, he's going to legislate. Will he actually get 644 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:43,200 Speaker 1: his name on a bill? Well, he says he is 645 00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:47,719 Speaker 1: co sponsoring pieces of legislator. Yeah, we we may see 646 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,360 Speaker 1: it there. I don't think we'll see it for too long. 647 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,200 Speaker 1: But he is certainly trying. He's got to learn to 648 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,600 Speaker 1: close that door. And I'm gonna stick up for Duncan Donuts. 649 00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,840 Speaker 1: Rick Davis, I like a Duncantnent. I'm from New England, 650 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 1: so you know we like him up here. Yeah, I 651 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 1: certainly I grew up with the Duncan the whole. The 652 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:08,359 Speaker 1: coffee is another matter. We can have that conversation on 653 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,640 Speaker 1: another day. But would you co sponsor? I mean, if 654 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:12,839 Speaker 1: if you're working in an office on the hill, Rick, 655 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 1: you co sponsor a bill with this other name here 656 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 1: Santos on the legislation. Yeah, you know, look it depends. Uh. 657 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,720 Speaker 1: The reality is a lot of these bills he's signing 658 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,359 Speaker 1: up to or just distributions. Right. You get a note 659 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,200 Speaker 1: and every member's uh inbox it says, hey, would you 660 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,000 Speaker 1: be willing to sponsor, you know, co sponsor this legislation. 661 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,719 Speaker 1: They're looking for votes, right, and they wanted and he 662 00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:35,880 Speaker 1: not one. So as long as he's got a vote. 663 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,280 Speaker 1: He's going to be able to get himself on some bills. 664 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:42,440 Speaker 1: There are times he will be needed. George Santos, Rick Davis, 665 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,600 Speaker 1: Genie Chanzano. Thanks to you both. I'm Joe Matthew. This 666 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:46,600 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg