Speaker 1: Also media.
Speaker 2: As we always do, we have included the sources for
Speaker 2: this podcast in the show notes. I've also included a
Speaker 2: link to Primroses legal aid fundraiser of people would like
Speaker 2: to help out for Rose Miami and Primrose and the
Speaker 2: dozens of other migrants I met at the jungle, the
Speaker 2: goal was to get here. Some of them had friends
Speaker 2: they wanted to stay with, but many did not. They
Speaker 2: just wanted a chance, a chance to work and be
Speaker 2: paid a fair wage, a chance for their kids to
Speaker 2: have a dream and a future, a chance to sleep
Speaker 2: safely at night. Once they got across that line, over
Speaker 2: that wall, or across that river, they wanted to make
Speaker 2: their case for asylum, to ask for help and someone
Speaker 2: to keep them safe, to give them an opportunity to
Speaker 2: build their lives again. But even for the very few
Speaker 2: who made it, the risks weren't over. Within hours of
Speaker 2: taking office, Trump had begun signing executive orders that would
Speaker 2: make life for migrants on the way to the USA
Speaker 2: and those already here even more difficult. To the cheers
Speaker 2: of the crowd, he signed in order that kept TikTok online,
Speaker 2: pardoned the people who stormed the Capitol on January sixth,
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, and attempted to rescind birthright citizenship from
Speaker 2: the children of migrants. He ended CBP one and with
Speaker 2: his sharpie ordered the building of mole walls and the
Speaker 2: resulting death of more people who came here to ask
Speaker 2: for help. Within days of Trump taking office, federal agents
Speaker 2: from ICE, the DEA, the FBI, and other agencies had
Speaker 2: begun a campaign if made for social media raids. In Colorado,
Speaker 2: they raided apartment buildings, which have played a load bearing
Speaker 2: role in right wing conspiracies about trender Ragua months before.
Speaker 2: At universities, they grabbed young men and women off campus
Speaker 2: for the crime for opposing genocide. People entering the country
Speaker 2: were stopped and had the device's searched, not just for
Speaker 2: evidence of crime, but also for evidence of mocking the
Speaker 2: president or the vice president. Trump added various organized crime groups,
Speaker 2: a list of foreign terrist organizations, and attempted to totally
Speaker 2: ban asylum, including for the people fleeing those very organizations.
Speaker 2: People who had waited a month for an appointment on
Speaker 2: CBP one now had their appointment canceled. They were left
Speaker 2: totally without hope, at risk, and with nowhere to go
Speaker 2: for help. Trump used to border emergency declaration to justify
Speaker 2: his proclamation and quickly followed up with more military deployments,
Speaker 2: wall construction, and a huge increase in the funding for
Speaker 2: state surveillance. People still crossed, but their numbers decreased if
Speaker 2: many of them were quickly deported back to Mexico. Here's
Speaker 2: Kurst in is it Lau promos his lawyer, explaining the
Speaker 2: new system.
Speaker 3: So there are no new asylum cases. In other words,
Speaker 3: people who cross at the southern border are now detained,
Speaker 3: only to be removed immediately basically or as soon as possible,
Speaker 3: under what's called two twelve F authority. It's under the
Speaker 3: Immigration and Nationality Act. Trump has used this authority, which
Speaker 3: basically broadly says that if the President finds a certain
Speaker 3: class of immigrants or the entry of immigrants would be
Speaker 3: detrimental to the interests of the United States, they may,
Speaker 3: by proclamation suspend all entry have said immigrants. So whereas
Speaker 3: people used to get credible fear interviews or were parolled
Speaker 3: into the United States to be allowed to fight an
Speaker 3: asylum case, none of that is happening anymore, and people are,
Speaker 3: if anything, only screened for what's called Convention against Torture
Speaker 3: screenings to just determine, like, hey, are they going to
Speaker 3: be tortured by their government or with the acquiescence of
Speaker 3: their government if they're returned to their home country. But
Speaker 3: even then they are not allowed to remain in the
Speaker 3: United States or fight any relief in the United States.
Speaker 3: That just means that they will be deported to a
Speaker 3: third country.
Speaker 2: For people inside the USA, the situation wasn't much better.
Speaker 2: First as a trickle and then as a torrent, we
Speaker 2: started to see videos of masked, unidentified men jumping out
Speaker 2: of on marked vehicles to grab people, many of whom
Speaker 2: were migrants, and detain them. In most cases, these were
Speaker 2: federal agents from ICE and other federal agencies like the FBI,
Speaker 2: the ATF, and the DEA, whose offices were detailed to
Speaker 2: support ICE. In an increasing number of cases, they were
Speaker 2: people imitating ICE. For migrants, many of whom had fled
Speaker 2: totalitarian regimes where people were disappeared by the state, they
Speaker 2: were reminder of what they'd run away from. The place
Speaker 2: they had come to be safe started to feel like
Speaker 2: the place they had to leave because it wasn't safe.
Speaker 2: In Primrose's case, things were a bit different. When Kifton
Speaker 2: found a motion to appear remotely, she got an extremely
Speaker 2: unusual response.
Speaker 3: In ruling on my WebEx motion, I was emailed the
Speaker 3: order of the judge along with a notice that primos
Speaker 3: should self deport. So judges are sending out these notices
Speaker 3: with routine other orders in cases where the immigrant has
Speaker 3: counsel is fighting their case. It's obvious they're fighting their case. Yeah,
Speaker 3: So it's one of the things where you just feel
Speaker 3: very strongly this administration's influence.
Speaker 2: Are they obliged to do that or is that a
Speaker 2: choice that the judges made.
Speaker 3: No, not at all. It's it's okay, not at all,
Speaker 3: and in fact it's completely inappropriate. The immigration bar is
Speaker 3: taking a different approach to it. Some are filing motions
Speaker 3: to recuse, telling the judges, hey, you need to recuse yourself.
Speaker 3: You're a non neutral judge. To send this out in
Speaker 3: the middle of the case is absurd. It's a due
Speaker 3: process violation. They're entitled to a neutral judge.
Speaker 2: See just one of the many areas where things are
Speaker 2: not as they have been. The Trump administration has flouted
Speaker 2: rules and even court orders. Migrants to a Salvador's megaprisms
Speaker 2: that got a place where torture is routine and where
Speaker 2: a few people have ever left. They attempted to bring
Speaker 2: criminal charges against migrants to justify their actions, and eventually
Speaker 2: ended up in a prisoner change with the Maduro regime.
Speaker 2: At the same time, my daughter's government began offering quote
Speaker 2: unquote humanitarian flights to Venezuelans and Mexico, and some even
Speaker 2: took to navigating the Daian Gap southwards to return to Columbia,
Speaker 2: where they thought they might have some chance at a
Speaker 2: decent life. In the USA, a country with more guns
Speaker 2: than people. Everyone seemed to be holding their breath or
Speaker 2: worrying that we'd see an increase in lethal violence. But
Speaker 2: after a few weeks, thankfully that hadn't happened. But more
Speaker 2: and more, where ICE agents showed up, local people also
Speaker 2: showed up. They called them are number of things, fascists, cowards, traitors,
Speaker 2: and then people began to organize, following ICE agents around
Speaker 2: and announcing their presence, identifying their hotels and making noise outside,
Speaker 2: picking up neighbors kids, and getting their groceries so people
Speaker 2: wouldn't need to expose themselves to the risk of arrest
Speaker 2: if ICE agents were spotted people alerted their communities. It
Speaker 2: is across the US. People began to form networks to
Speaker 2: take care of their neighbors. Some of this came from
Speaker 2: lifelong activists, but much of it did not. People even
Speaker 2: began using apps normally used for suburban racism like nextdoor
Speaker 2: and Ring to call out the presence of ICE. Raids
Speaker 2: were reposed and ICE agents were shouted out across the country,
Speaker 2: but they still kept going. It wasn't until June that
Speaker 2: we saw the first mass protest. Everyone wondered if we
Speaker 2: be in for another hot summer like twenty twenty. CBP
Speaker 2: offices had been deployed to La to conduct a series
Speaker 2: of loud and once again curated for Instagram braids. Border
Speaker 2: patrols Eel Centro Sector Chief Patrol Agent Gregory Bavino became
Speaker 2: the face of the operation even before Trump had taken office.
Speaker 2: Just a day after Congress had certified the results of
Speaker 2: the election, Baveno had sent sixty five agents six hours
Speaker 2: north of the border to push the boundaries of what
Speaker 2: people would accept in California, say, to a valley not
Speaker 2: so far from Los Gatos Canyon, he led Operation Return
Speaker 2: to Sender, accosting Latino farm workers at convenience stores and
Speaker 2: on the way to work. Bavino claimed the operation was targeted,
Speaker 2: but reporting from cow Matas showed CBP had no prior
Speaker 2: records for seventy seven of the seventy eight people had arrested. Bavino,
Speaker 2: who has bestowed the title of Premiere Sector on the
Speaker 2: part of the border he oversees, has five agents on
Speaker 2: a team dedicated to producing videos.
Speaker 1: He likes to.
Speaker 2: Praise Eisenhower, whose operation WAG often flew migrants to El
Speaker 2: Centro before they were sent back to Mexico. The plane
Speaker 2: which crashed in Los Gato's Canyon was headed there. Bovino
Speaker 2: has a long history of these rates, dating back to
Speaker 2: at least twenty ten in Las Vegas, and he is
Speaker 2: very much the face of the new border patrol approach.
Speaker 2: While ICE numbers are growing, CBP still has several times
Speaker 2: more offices, and indeed some reporting suggests that ICE offices
Speaker 2: and some offices might be replaced with CBP personnel. Border
Speaker 2: Patrol notionly operates within one hundred miles at the border,
Speaker 2: an area which includes all US coastline and the entire
Speaker 2: shore of the Great Lakes, and even then this one
Speaker 2: hundred Miles is an interpretation and not a hard legal blog.
Speaker 2: This remint covers two thirds of the population and gives
Speaker 2: them a widely way to infringe on the Fourth Amendment.
Speaker 2: This has been the case for decades since the Department
Speaker 2: of Home Land Security was founded after nine to eleven,
Speaker 2: but mass protests against CBP has been rare. We've seen
Speaker 2: it on occasion. The lesson you'd think for an agency
Speaker 2: with such a broad remit in a country that seemed
Speaker 2: so proud of the first ten amendments to the Constitution.
Speaker 2: In La though, people weren't having it. Following a series
Speaker 2: of violent raids, Border Patrol agents hadn't been met with
Speaker 2: protests across the city. They'd responded with tear gas, projectile
Speaker 2: weapons and threats. They'd arrested Denis wuerta leader of the
Speaker 2: Service Employees United International, one of the largest unions in
Speaker 2: the country, as well as dozens of other Angelinos. They'd
Speaker 2: shot tear gas out of moving vehicles and a naunched
Speaker 2: projectiles into the faces of reporters and bystanders alike. Seeing this,
Speaker 2: doing what I do, I got on a train to
Speaker 2: Los Angeles, but within being southern California, it took like
Speaker 2: five hours.
Speaker 1: Are they throwing or shooting? Do you get hit?
Speaker 2: You're okay, I'm going to that tree on the right. Yeah.
Speaker 2: After getting off the train in LA, and before I
Speaker 2: met my friend Charles McBride to work of some coverage together,
Speaker 2: I walked around el Verda Street, grabbed a coffee, and
Speaker 2: spoke to some of the local folks. There were tags
Speaker 2: all over the walls and windows of the buildings around
Speaker 2: the train station, but that's always been how LA has
Speaker 2: expressed itself. All I heard from people I met there
Speaker 2: was support. One man expressed to me his an team
Speaker 2: made protest very uncomfortable for him, but he was glad
Speaker 2: to see people standing up. Obviously, crimes against property are
Speaker 2: something that parts of Los Angeles take very seriously. It's
Speaker 2: a spiritual home of conspicuous consumption. But in this instance,
Speaker 2: it seemed everyone I've met either didn't care or was
Speaker 2: so mad that they didn't care. From mid morning to
Speaker 2: early the next day, LAPD, who are not supposed to
Speaker 2: assist CBP, but who can enforce state law, chase angry
Speaker 2: kids around their own city. Its skid row and downtown LA.
Speaker 2: Tear gas flooded the streets, and so did young people
Speaker 2: from across town in between the tear gas and pepperbulls,
Speaker 2: and managed to talk to a few of them. Their
Speaker 2: stories were similar. They were those kids whose better futures
Speaker 2: had brought their parents here. They were citizens raised in
Speaker 2: the USA to believe in the right to free speech
Speaker 2: and assembly, something they were now using to make their
Speaker 2: voices heard.
Speaker 4: I mean, my family, they're susceptible to all the ice
Speaker 4: rays and stuff like that, and you know, being a
Speaker 4: citizen here, I feel like it's my duty to out
Speaker 4: here and you know, speak out and know for those
Speaker 4: who can.
Speaker 2: It made me think of Primrose and Kimberly and the
Speaker 2: future they might both have. I sincerely hope that one
Speaker 2: day at Kimberly and every other kid I met the
Speaker 2: jungle would feel brave enough to be out here and
Speaker 2: despite everything, be strong enough to stand up against state violence.
Speaker 2: Unbeknown to me, Primrose and Kim weren't that far away.
Speaker 2: They had a check in with ICE at the DTLA
Speaker 2: federal building that day, and as they rode by in
Speaker 2: a bus past the protesting crowds, Kim said to her mom, look,
Speaker 2: it's uncle James. Her mom, of course, told her it
Speaker 2: couldn't have been, but she was right. It was after
Speaker 2: nine months of only speaking on the phone, Kimberly somehow
Speaker 2: recognized me this might be being wrapped up in a
Speaker 2: helmet and a plate carrier. When they first arrived, they
Speaker 2: went to stay with someone they knew in Texas. I
Speaker 2: planned to go and visit them and accompany them to
Speaker 2: their court hearing. At this point, I say, agents had
Speaker 2: already begun snatching people in the corridors the courthouse itself
Speaker 2: to the government withdrew their cases and placed them in
Speaker 2: expedited removal proceedings, which meant mandatory detention. There's not much
Speaker 2: any of us could do about this, but I didn't
Speaker 2: want them to be alone. Then I got COVID and
Speaker 2: couldn't go his curse in explaining how this process works.
Speaker 3: So Ina Section two thirty five applies to people who
Speaker 3: entered within less than two years. Like you said, they
Speaker 3: can be then subject to what's called expedited removal. That
Speaker 3: means that they have to take a credible fear interview
Speaker 3: and be detained, and that they only get to fight
Speaker 3: a case if they pass their credible fear interview. They
Speaker 3: do not qualify for an immigration judge bond so they
Speaker 3: only get out if Ice lets them out, which of
Speaker 3: course I is letting nobody out. So the administration wants
Speaker 3: to have people detained under this authority, this two thirty
Speaker 3: five authority, as much as possible, to have them have
Speaker 3: to fight their case detained and either lose the will
Speaker 3: to do so and or not be able to afford
Speaker 3: an attorney, because the tanned cases move along a lot
Speaker 3: quicker and are very costly as well for that reason.
Speaker 3: So what they're doing is anybody who was here two
Speaker 3: years or less but was parolled in so they're in
Speaker 3: the regular immigration court proceedings. They got out there under
Speaker 3: two forty proceedings, that's called so DHS attorneys in court
Speaker 3: are terminating those proceedings. They're asking the Dodge to terminate
Speaker 3: the two forty proceedings, so then that case is closed
Speaker 3: and then they immediately restart a case under section two
Speaker 3: thirty five.
Speaker 2: Their hearing went relatively smoothly. Their lawyer, who is now
Speaker 2: working for whatever Primrose could fundraise, was able to help
Speaker 2: them make their case. They left with another hearing scheduled
Speaker 2: soon after. They decided to move to la to stay
Speaker 2: with another friend. After the housing situation in Texas fell through.
Speaker 2: They were living in East LA when they had their
Speaker 2: next ice check in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was living an appointment.
Speaker 2: And you said they went back to get some documents
Speaker 2: in them around.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I went.
Speaker 5: I think that aunt a of eight two four pm.
Speaker 5: At first they came and give me my papers. They said,
Speaker 5: go to chat with which is close to where you stay.
Speaker 5: Then came here in La downtown. So when I walk away,
Speaker 5: I realized there was no other documents. Then I woke,
Speaker 5: I go big. I said to Kim at let's go
Speaker 5: big inside. Then I go to the reception. Then I
Speaker 5: asked the lady and she was the rude to it first.
Speaker 5: Then she took my documents, then said oh okay, let
Speaker 5: me go and find it. Three hours four hours, not
Speaker 5: coming big. Then she came and called me. I think
Speaker 5: four pm. Then the ice officer is just telling me
Speaker 5: I'm going to detainium. I said, oh why, I said,
Speaker 5: we are going to explain more. We are going.
Speaker 1: I said, oh.
Speaker 2: Okay, like thousands of other migrants who are trying to
Speaker 2: do as they're asked, was detained her check it along
Speaker 2: with Kim. Previously, she'd be giving ice checkens in Riverside
Speaker 2: despite living in East La. I'd helped her navigate the
Speaker 2: four and a half hour bus route to get there
Speaker 2: on time. I wondered, how on earth, someone who doesn't
Speaker 2: have a friend here, or who doesn't speak English, she's
Speaker 2: expected to do this. She went out of her way
Speaker 2: to make sure she was there and she had her
Speaker 2: documents in order, despite all of this, but she and
Speaker 2: Kim believe were detained anyway, It's not hard for me
Speaker 2: to see why people in La were mad.
Speaker 5: Then they took me to Santana. We were just sitting.
Speaker 5: Not even one ice officer come talk to me.
Speaker 1: Nothing.
Speaker 5: I was just sitting. And the other thing, they just
Speaker 5: took my phone. Same time this, I switched it off.
Speaker 5: Then I said, can I tell even one of my
Speaker 5: friends maybe they.
Speaker 1: Are worried.
Speaker 5: And I said no, no, we are going to give
Speaker 5: you a phone. Later on I said, okay. So in
Speaker 5: Sanna they took us in a hotel to sleep. Then
Speaker 5: the following day they took big us to sunder detention center.
Speaker 5: Not even one officer. I was being asking the securities.
Speaker 5: They said, we don't even know. We splained the whole
Speaker 5: day sitting doing nothing. We were just sitting. Then they
Speaker 5: took us. I think around the six PM take you
Speaker 5: to Los Angeles then, when that's why I saw the
Speaker 5: ICE officer. Then she explained to me, we are going
Speaker 5: to detain you, are going to put you somewhere because
Speaker 5: the rules are changing every day. I even ask you,
Speaker 5: did I do something ru She said no.
Speaker 2: I've heard this from a lot of migrants. The ICE
Speaker 2: agents managing their non detained docket as opposed to those
Speaker 2: enforcement removal or detention, seemed to be struggling to keep
Speaker 2: up with the pace of the changes in rules. Many
Speaker 2: of the migrants I'd heard from had decent relationships with
Speaker 2: the officers to do their check ins, and they can't
Speaker 2: understand why other officers working for the same organization would
Speaker 2: detain them, even that they're doing exactly what they're asked
Speaker 2: to do. They are doing things quote unquote the right way.
Speaker 2: But that's not enough for an agency desperately driven by
Speaker 2: quotas and the desire to purgenation of people who had
Speaker 2: risked their lives to become Americans. Let's hear how this
Speaker 2: felt for Primrose.
Speaker 1: Then I said, do you have a lawyer? I said yes.
Speaker 5: Then she said, okay, it's fine, So she gave me
Speaker 5: another documentary to sign. Then I signed, like they are
Speaker 5: going to detain me. Then I ask you for how long?
Speaker 5: She said that I don't think you guys will you
Speaker 5: are going and going to stay more than fourteen days,
Speaker 5: maybe less than fourteen days. I said, okay. Then I
Speaker 5: asked your phone to call a lawyer. She gave me
Speaker 5: a phone. Then I conduct the lawyer. The lawyer the
Speaker 5: phone was off. Then I tried to conduct one of
Speaker 5: my friends. Then the answer. I said, Yo, we wanted
Speaker 5: to go to the police to ask you because we
Speaker 5: were worried because your phone were off and the ice officer,
Speaker 5: the ice officer, they both I was saving a GPS,
Speaker 5: so my GPS was off for the way phoning. Uh
Speaker 5: the person way up to me in Texas looking for me.
Speaker 5: Then he also replaced, I'm also looking for you. I
Speaker 5: don't even know where she is. Yeah, So people they
Speaker 5: were worried. Maybe I will someone could app you something
Speaker 5: happened to me. Yeah, yeah, so you.
Speaker 2: And another ice officer is also looking for you.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the other officer, we're looking for me. They were
Speaker 5: even sending messages on their app. Yeah, yeah, asking where
Speaker 5: are you charge your GPS? And the other ICE officer
Speaker 5: was detaining me. Then I even explained to her. She said,
Speaker 5: oh no, no, it's okay. Then she took the scissor.
Speaker 5: Then she cut the GPS. She cut it off.
Speaker 1: They know.
Speaker 5: We spent I think one hour, it was around seven.
Speaker 5: Then they said, okay, oh there someone k is coming
Speaker 5: to take you and your daughter, so to take you
Speaker 5: someway which is safe with your child. I ask away
Speaker 5: those people they visited, we don't know, we don't know.
Speaker 5: I said, all okay. Then they search me. They said,
Speaker 5: did you want to take your big they's no, no,
Speaker 5: it's fine. I can ask if someone because I know
Speaker 5: I was leaving as key for the.
Speaker 2: Apartment Primrose, like many people seeking asylum, had to wear
Speaker 2: a GPS ankle tag part of ICE's Alternatives to Detention program.
Speaker 2: There are various parts of the program, including facial recognition
Speaker 2: check ins via a smartphone app, home visits, and the
Speaker 2: Intensive Supervision Parents Program, which is administered by Behavioral Interventions
Speaker 2: A Geogroups of Sidiary I SAP as it's known, includes
Speaker 2: an app through which people can check it, as well
Speaker 2: as the GPS monitors and smart watches which can monitor
Speaker 2: GPS and do facial recognition. Very obviously, they're not being
Speaker 2: used in a systematic way, as one branch of ICE
Speaker 2: was detaining Primrose while another was using a GPS tag
Speaker 2: to try and find her. All the GPS devices used
Speaker 2: to altern to detention represent massive surveillance overreach, an invasion
Speaker 2: of privacy, and a huge government dragnet of data they
Speaker 2: can use to track down migrants and the people they're with.
Speaker 2: Despite this, they're also better than detention, which is where
Speaker 2: Primros ended up, but not directly.
Speaker 5: Maybe they're going to put me. I can't go with
Speaker 5: the keys. Then they took my big Then okay, we're
Speaker 5: going to put somewhere. After one hour, they took us
Speaker 5: to Lax Airport. They put us in a hotel. It
Speaker 5: was around the twelve, yeah, twelve three, and that time, indeed,
Speaker 5: they said, okay, so when you can navy shower, then
Speaker 5: you can navy saw me. I was in the shower
Speaker 5: in the Kimberdis was already on the bed sleeping. Then
Speaker 5: the lady came in said, make fast, we are going
Speaker 5: to we want to go back to pick another person
Speaker 5: where we came from.
Speaker 1: Ah. Then awake I awake him.
Speaker 5: I was talking about she was crying she was like,
Speaker 5: I want to sleep because she was leaving headache. Then
Speaker 5: they said no, no, no, it's okay, let's go, you're
Speaker 5: going to sleep.
Speaker 1: Where we are going. We spent there one night, up
Speaker 1: and down.
Speaker 5: We came back again to La Downtown to pick another
Speaker 5: guy with his side, with his son. Then they took
Speaker 5: us to San Diego airport. I think we arrived there.
Speaker 5: I think it's five am to take the flight to
Speaker 5: San Andreonio, Texas. Then after that and then the other
Speaker 5: lady she was rude. The other one she was nice,
Speaker 5: she was fine. The other one, if you ask her,
Speaker 5: she was like, she was rude. Then I just keep quiet.
Speaker 5: Then I think at the airport we spent three hours sitting.
Speaker 5: Then ication flight at eight am to San Antonio and
Speaker 5: they took us to delay immigration. They welcome us, nice everything. Yeah,
Speaker 5: then they put us inside. But for me, I was
Speaker 5: I was crying to be honesty, yeah, I was even crying,
Speaker 5: like you know, the only pace and make me strong.
Speaker 5: It came and it's wayte for here, like since our
Speaker 5: last year, since last year, your life is something else.
Speaker 5: I'm just moving from one place to another, moving from
Speaker 5: one place to another.
Speaker 1: You know, she's a strong girl.
Speaker 5: But sometimes you can see when you see sitting down
Speaker 5: starting crime, she would just remind you something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 2: The Florida Settlement governed detention of children by immigration authorities.
Speaker 2: It limits the time they can be held to twenty days.
Speaker 2: It establishes minimum standards for their detention and treatment. It
Speaker 2: was a lawsuit based on this Florida Settlement that eventually
Speaker 2: ended the Biden era policy of outdoor attention. The settlement
Speaker 2: is widely flouted, but it was the best hope from
Speaker 2: Rose and Kimberly had. Kirstin their lawyer we heard from
Speaker 2: earlier worked tirelessly to demand they be treated according to
Speaker 2: their rights.
Speaker 1: And how was it?
Speaker 2: You caught me a few times in daily rate, like how.
Speaker 1: Kim wasn't having a good time first week?
Speaker 5: It was hard even for both of us. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 5: even their food mere, I wasn't even. It was very
Speaker 5: hard for both of us to know kids she was
Speaker 5: like used to to.
Speaker 2: Primrose called me a few times from detention. I pick
Speaker 2: up the phone to a robot voice and the number
Speaker 2: would identify itself on my phone as Federal detention or
Speaker 2: something like that. First, obviously I was afraid, but I
Speaker 2: had an idea of what it could be. Yet another
Speaker 2: connection that began with a little piece of waterproof paper
Speaker 2: in the jungle and was now nine months later, leading
Speaker 2: to a phone call from a prison for families in Texas.
Speaker 2: I'd pick up the phone and then I'd have to
Speaker 2: press one or two to accept the call. I always
Speaker 2: wondered what I was about to hear. I could tell
Speaker 2: she was trying to put on a brave face, but
Speaker 2: she sounded so small it was difficult, really hard to hear.
Speaker 2: She said Kim wasn't eating the food, which I've often
Speaker 2: heard is terrible. I spent hours trying to find out
Speaker 2: how to put money on their commissary account so she
Speaker 2: could get something a little better. Kised in foro on
Speaker 2: and on to try and get them released. I remember
Speaker 2: at one point hearing from Primrose locked up with her
Speaker 2: daughter for the crime of asking his country for help
Speaker 2: on the fourth of July. It'd be too cliche if
Speaker 2: I made that up, But nothing this year already seems believable,
Speaker 2: even a nice attention, which is a miserable place for anyone.
Speaker 2: Primros and Came had an especially hard time, as most
Speaker 2: of the mirgrants they were detained but spoke Spanish.
Speaker 1: And the way.
Speaker 5: The other thing is like those people they were, especially
Speaker 5: their room.
Speaker 1: They put me all of them.
Speaker 5: They were Spanish and me, I don't understand the Spanish.
Speaker 5: I even asked the ice officer, can you please maybe
Speaker 5: because there's another lad you also two ladies I think Africans.
Speaker 5: We were only four families, so we even asked them,
Speaker 5: can you put us in one room so that we
Speaker 5: can understand each other, even especially for the TV. You know,
Speaker 5: kids their issues. So sometimes I even had a report
Speaker 5: to one of the lads. She was very rude to us.
Speaker 5: She came and speak something, so me and you came
Speaker 5: with we don't even understand like what she said.
Speaker 1: So I just saw people they're doing something.
Speaker 5: Then letter she was like, hey, I came here and
Speaker 5: I said this. Yeah, when you came here, you just
Speaker 5: speak Spanish. You didn't even explain with English, and of
Speaker 5: which may I don't understand English. So she just write
Speaker 5: a report to a boss. So your boss came and
Speaker 5: called me. Then I explained to you. Then she was like,
Speaker 5: oh okay.
Speaker 1: Then they called Yeah. She wanted to.
Speaker 5: Say no, no, no, I even explained to English. Then
Speaker 5: there's another woman inside my room. Then she spoke with Spanish.
Speaker 5: I didn't even hear, but she was telling the officer, no, no, no,
Speaker 5: this woman, she's lying. She just came and speaks Spanish, ye,
Speaker 5: not English. So these people they were just sleeping. They
Speaker 5: didn't even know what to do because she just only
Speaker 5: spoke Spanish only.
Speaker 2: I've heard this from lots of migrants. They end up
Speaker 2: serving as translators for each other because the agency that
Speaker 2: is founded better than most countries' militaries seemingly won't provide them. Often,
Speaker 2: people who speak indigenous languages have to find a translator
Speaker 2: into Spanish or Russian or whatever other language they have
Speaker 2: a colonial relationship with. Other times, there's just nobody to
Speaker 2: help them, and they're even more alone than afraid. Luckily,
Speaker 2: Primrose wasn't alone. She had kim with her, and as
Speaker 2: they always do, they looked out for each other. These
Speaker 2: aren't things the child should have to do, certainly not
Speaker 2: a child as young as Kimberly, But in the end
Speaker 2: it was Kimberly who could help work out what was
Speaker 2: going on.
Speaker 5: Then the ice officer I started decrying, like then they
Speaker 5: took me to psychologist. Then no, it's okay, I think
Speaker 5: I even spent three days that side. They removed me
Speaker 5: in their room, then they put me big so mallage
Speaker 5: was leaning under standing Spanish. So sometimes you see olping
Speaker 5: me or Mammy they said this, and that, they said
Speaker 5: this and that. I even write it not to complain,
Speaker 5: like when these people came, then we have to accommodate
Speaker 5: all of us, because it's not like, oh, we are
Speaker 5: all Spanish and the eye we don't understand Spanish, and.
Speaker 2: It's being overcrowded and underfed. Migrated ice facilities were often
Speaker 2: incredibly bored. I've heard of some of them trying to
Speaker 2: teach yoga or share stories, but for the most part,
Speaker 2: there's so afraid and isolated that they are forced to
Speaker 2: sit with their anxieties day after day. I can't imagine
Speaker 2: what this is like for parents who have to try
Speaker 2: and maintain their own mental health and take care of
Speaker 2: their children.
Speaker 5: But to be honest, we were just sitting. So time
Speaker 5: goes oh yeah, because I remember one day we went
Speaker 5: to place, we went to the gym to play I
Speaker 5: think soca with Kim. I just failed down, just so down.
Speaker 5: They took me to hospital. I think I spent I
Speaker 5: think three hours then I wake up.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, of course I think it's depression. Yeah, so they
Speaker 5: put me in depression pills to get it out. Yeah,
Speaker 5: because my bibi was high every time and every time
Speaker 5: and different time. Yeah. But I asked my ICE officer
Speaker 5: about my case. Then she just replied me, I'm just
Speaker 5: waiting for ICE to close your case when we can
Speaker 5: start for asylum.
Speaker 1: So I was just sitting doing nothing.
Speaker 2: Despite what the detention was doing to her, Premiers remain
Speaker 2: determined to keep fighting her case. Every Thursday, an ICE
Speaker 2: officer would come by and she would be able to
Speaker 2: ask about her case. She'd been looking forward to the
Speaker 2: only point in her week when she might get some
Speaker 2: good news or at least some news about what was
Speaker 2: happening to her. Why, Sally, that's not how it went.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was.
Speaker 5: Ice officer was very old, to be honest, Everyone just
Speaker 5: walk away without and the people they were crying, complaining.
Speaker 5: Then it was like I went to him, straight to him.
Speaker 5: I wanted to ask him a question. He said, Hey,
Speaker 5: I don't have time. The only thing I can even
Speaker 5: tell you, guys, if you're tired of staying here, you
Speaker 5: can because they were putting papers for self deportation in
Speaker 5: our rooms like if you want to anytime, you can
Speaker 5: just sign. You put your A number, your phone number, everything,
Speaker 5: then they can make you fine ticket here.
Speaker 2: In her lowest moments, Premier said she felt like giving up.
Speaker 2: Maybe it wasn't worth it. She thought, if you would
Speaker 2: do anything to get away from the hell of the
Speaker 2: detention center, that's the goal of these places, to break people.
Speaker 2: The kimberly reminded her what they'd come all this way for.
Speaker 5: Because when I was in detention, there's a time I
Speaker 5: was like, I'm going to sign any deportation from Oh,
Speaker 5: she's cream, she said, No, people, they are going to
Speaker 5: kill you.
Speaker 1: If you want to go big.
Speaker 5: Oh it's fine, it's up to you. If you want
Speaker 5: to go die, go not to me. You sign your paper,
Speaker 5: not to my paper. You must sign yours, then you
Speaker 5: can go. Don't sign my name. No, I do rather
Speaker 5: stay a year because I know people, because there's a
Speaker 5: lot of people happening in the a ice, especially in
Speaker 5: my country. Also, so she still remember everything.
Speaker 2: The depression, hunger boarder and misery that characterizes ice detention.
Speaker 2: It's not a bug, it's a feature. It's supposed to
Speaker 2: force people into breaking into signing those papers. It's getting
Speaker 2: sent back to whatever they came here to escape. However,
Speaker 2: the tenasty that bought Primrose is far I hadn't left her,
Speaker 2: and she made sure to let them know she was
Speaker 2: not willingly go back.
Speaker 5: Then I said, no me, I'm not going anyway because
Speaker 5: my life is in danger. Then he said, I don't
Speaker 5: care even if they kill you, I don't even care.
Speaker 1: You have to.
Speaker 5: Take a reform and sign if you're a tack. Then
Speaker 5: I said, okay, at least tell me my my case,
Speaker 5: because when they teach me, was like everyone was asking me,
Speaker 5: where did they catch you? I explained. The other officer
Speaker 5: was like, so wh detain you? I said, I don't
Speaker 5: even know the name, but that uh ice officer, he
Speaker 5: was very rude, said I don't care.
Speaker 1: Do you think I care.
Speaker 5: I don't even care whether you go big to your cant,
Speaker 5: whether they killed you, none of my business.
Speaker 1: I gave my family.
Speaker 5: Oh so people people they were they were like shouted him,
Speaker 5: those spanishes, they were even crying, shouted him. He just
Speaker 5: walk away and leave us. So people were just also
Speaker 5: starting walking away.
Speaker 1: Go around.
Speaker 5: We even the writing not reprove like a complain, but
Speaker 5: no one even comment your pass and they did. They
Speaker 5: just come and call me. They are going to listen me.
Speaker 2: Kirsten had spent weeks calling, emailing, and demanding the Primrose
Speaker 2: and Kimberly be treated according to their rights under the
Speaker 2: Florida Settlement. I wasn't sure if it was a lost cause.
Speaker 2: It was the only option we had, and I was
Speaker 2: happy to Kimberly and like so many others in that
Speaker 2: detention center, had someone to fight for her. In fact,
Speaker 2: she had hundreds of people. People all across the country
Speaker 2: had donated to a legal aid fund. Here in San Diego.
Speaker 2: People put on shows and took collections to pay for
Speaker 2: her legal fees. Listeners to this show dipped into their
Speaker 2: pockets to support Primos and Kimberly. Thanks to them, she
Speaker 2: had a chance to get out. Like many other legal
Speaker 2: rights at Migrant's House, Flores was being widely ignored, and
Speaker 2: it's likely that Trump have men will take a run
Speaker 2: at removing it altogether soon, But for now, this one case,
Speaker 2: it still applied. But even once I conceded that Primrose
Speaker 2: and Kimberly had a right to be freed, they still
Speaker 2: took their time doing it.
Speaker 1: They released me on the tenth Yeah, I remember you
Speaker 1: called me the frond of.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I called Julia exactly before you were.
Speaker 2: Going to get out that week, but they took longer
Speaker 2: and longer. Yeah, the release felt like a victory, but
Speaker 2: she still faced the same difficulty she had before. Primrose
Speaker 2: could not legally work. She was still in la where
Speaker 2: border patrol and the Baveno but conducting violent raids and
Speaker 2: people accused of no crime other than crossing the border
Speaker 2: between ports of entry. Because it was the summer, Kimberly
Speaker 2: still hadn't resumed her education, so that was July and
Speaker 2: igl were in August. Now, yeah, you said your work
Speaker 2: permit still hasn't.
Speaker 5: Come right, Yeah, they clear everything. I was supposed to
Speaker 5: get to my week permit on June July, but they
Speaker 5: clear everything, like I knew everything. They just clear everything's
Speaker 5: all studying August.
Speaker 2: Yeah to November. Now there's still no permit. His case
Speaker 2: in explaining in May of this year how this system works.
Speaker 3: You have a work permit clock, right, which is another
Speaker 3: absurd thing for assiles that once they file their asylum application,
Speaker 3: they have to wait one hundred and fifty days before
Speaker 3: they can apply for a work permit. And of course
Speaker 3: they're expected to be independently wealthy during those five months,
Speaker 3: or you know, or star over. I don't know what
Speaker 3: they're expected to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, rely on the generosity of others, like exactly.
Speaker 3: So if you do something like try to change venue
Speaker 3: or a motion to continue, if you do something in
Speaker 3: your case that the judge perceives as not moving the
Speaker 3: case along and rather like kind of trying to stall
Speaker 3: it or possibly pausing it or slow it down, the
Speaker 3: judge will stop the work permit clock the days and
Speaker 3: it's a whole thing. So Primroses was stopped because the
Speaker 3: judge wanted her to get an attorney. So then usually
Speaker 3: when the case is set for a final hearing, that
Speaker 3: code adjournment code they call it. We have the access
Speaker 3: to the codes and what stops the clock and what doesn't,
Speaker 3: and it always restarts the clock because you moved your
Speaker 3: case along because you're setting it for trial. It's you know,
Speaker 3: obviously moving your case along. Hers was not restarted.
Speaker 2: That video is still on Primrose's mind as well, still
Speaker 2: comes up when she goes to a new church or
Speaker 2: meets new people. Even eleven months later. One of the
Speaker 2: worst days of her life still follows her.
Speaker 5: And the visiting hoop Puss is me on my video
Speaker 5: please uh. I don't know how to say, but the
Speaker 5: comments I was reading it was really big and people
Speaker 5: they just judge people. We thought, if they know where
Speaker 5: they come from, Yeah, I can't control them, but.
Speaker 1: Deep don't.
Speaker 5: I'm not okay. And do you see if it now
Speaker 5: I'm struggling for my knee. Yeah, and the other people
Speaker 5: they will love at me like yeah, but it's not funny.
Speaker 5: And I wish if the person maybe she was supposed
Speaker 5: to cover my face or to cover Kimbali's face.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right.
Speaker 2: But I didn't want their time in La to entirely
Speaker 2: be defined by their detention. I didn't want them to
Speaker 2: think that everyone in this country doesn't want them here.
Speaker 2: I never really expect the government to make people feel
Speaker 2: welcome here. I think that's something we should do. These
Speaker 2: people are joining our communities. They risk their lives to
Speaker 2: kind of live here with us, and it's us who
Speaker 2: should welcome them. We can't leave that to the whims
Speaker 2: of the electoral college. We have to do it ourselves,
Speaker 2: just like the people in Bajujito did.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 2: I drove up to La Primrose and Kim had another
Speaker 2: ice appointment, and I arranged to meet them after. I
Speaker 2: freaked out little bit when I couldn't get through to them,
Speaker 2: but eventually I did. The Big Guy's building has no
Speaker 2: signal inside. It turns out their place in la Is
Speaker 2: where I conducted the interview you heard. I took them
Speaker 2: out for a manicure first, because it seemed like something
Speaker 2: that would make them feel taken care of, and I
Speaker 2: got Kimed some bubblesap because she wanted to try it.
Speaker 2: Sitting in the little manicure shop, watching a Vietnamese lady
Speaker 2: take great care over their nails felt like another glimpse
Speaker 2: of the communities we aspire to build where people from
Speaker 2: all over the world can come and be safe. By
Speaker 2: this time, I hadn't heard from Noiby for months, and
Speaker 2: I've started to realize I might not ever again. So
Speaker 2: I decided I wasn't going to let Kimberly live so
Speaker 2: close to Disneyland and not go. One of my colleagues
Speaker 2: has family who worked there. We got Primrose and Kimberly
Speaker 2: day passes. It felt really nice just to give them
Speaker 2: a day to be a family and not to worry.
Speaker 2: I didn't go with them and record I wanted them
Speaker 2: to enjoy the day on their own, and by all
Speaker 2: accounts they did. Primrose sent me fixtored to them smiling
Speaker 2: outside various riots and exhibit, and I felt a little
Speaker 2: bit better to have help make someone's American dream a
Speaker 2: little less of a nightmare. Tomorrow, I want to talk
Speaker 2: more about welcoming people in our communities and taking care
Speaker 2: of them, because now more than ever, I think that's
Speaker 2: what we have to do. It Could Happen Here is
Speaker 2: a production of cool Zone Media.
Speaker 3: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
Speaker 3: coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can
Speaker 3: now find sources for It Could Happen Here, listed directly
Speaker 3: in episode descriptions.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.