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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Ozone podcast featuring Jaguars dot Com Senior

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Speaker 1: writer John Osher and Jaguars executive producer Dave de Candis.

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Speaker 1: This week, we're continuing last week's Those Own podcasts. We

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Speaker 1: talked to Pete Crisco, NFL senior columnists for CBS and

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Speaker 1: a long time Jaguars radio voice, has been on our broadcast.

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Speaker 1: He covered the Jaguars with me for the newspaper for

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Speaker 1: six seven years when it first started. Last week with Pete,

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Speaker 1: we talked about how Pete kind of got started in

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Speaker 1: the business, trying to give people an idea of how

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Speaker 1: he got to Jacksonville, what he did before covering the Jaguars,

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Speaker 1: which he has been known for for a long time,

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Speaker 1: and we talked about him covering the team in terms

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Speaker 1: of its expansion process in terms of how the Jaguars

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Speaker 1: got to Jacksonville, which if you haven't heard it and

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Speaker 1: are listening to this one, I would highly recommend listening

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Speaker 1: to some of what Pete said about how he covered

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Speaker 1: the team as it came to fruition, as the Jaguars

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Speaker 1: got the team. I was working with Pete at the

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Speaker 1: paper at the time and it was fascinating to hear

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Speaker 1: him talk about some of the stories. It's not an

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Speaker 1: easy process covering an expansion process, especially for this team,

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Speaker 1: this town at the time. So that's a really good listen.

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Speaker 1: If you have heard it, go ahead and listen to

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Speaker 1: this one. We talked last week's about a lot about

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Speaker 1: Tom Coughlin and a lot about the dynamic there, and

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Speaker 1: I think people would go back and listen to that

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Speaker 1: will be fascinated by it. But one thing that we

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Speaker 1: haven't talked about over the years, even personally together very

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Speaker 1: much for four years when we covered this team, especially

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Speaker 1: nine nine, we covered what I think most people will

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Speaker 1: consider the glory days of the franchise, and I wrote

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Speaker 1: a book on it, and for me, it's one of

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Speaker 1: my better professional memories that time. What I wanted to

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Speaker 1: ask you, first of all, I forget a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I think after there was a feeling the team was

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Speaker 1: moving in the right direction. But did we think that

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Speaker 1: that team had a chance to be good? Because I

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Speaker 1: can't really remember it that well. No, we did not.

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Speaker 1: We thought they'd be better. We thought they'd be better,

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Speaker 1: but we didn't think they'd be that team. And and

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Speaker 1: you know it's funny, I actually went back it was

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Speaker 1: tweeted out. And rewatched the Denver playoff game last week.

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Speaker 1: Did you see it? Somebody tweeted it out and they

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Speaker 1: actually had the full copy of that the NFL. The

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Speaker 1: NFL put that on their site. It was available, and

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Speaker 1: I watched it. And the amazing thing is is that's

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Speaker 1: considered one of the biggest upsets in the NFL, and

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Speaker 1: it was from a point spread standpoint. They dominated them

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Speaker 1: after the first quarter, dominated him, did not. They had

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Speaker 1: one of the most remarkable things in that game. And

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Speaker 1: I know we talked about it. They got behind twelve

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Speaker 1: nothing and then scored and kept the Broncos from scoring

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Speaker 1: on five straight possessions of each team. It was an

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Speaker 1: absolute domination and you didn't feel it because they weren't

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Speaker 1: supposed to be doing it. But when you look back

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Speaker 1: at the I've looked. I happened to have the playback

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Speaker 1: play sheet of that game, and I'm speaking to your point.

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Speaker 1: It was remarkable how they dominated that game and it

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Speaker 1: was really not an upset if you watch the game,

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Speaker 1: if they haven't seen any sense, no, And and that

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Speaker 1: team was growing up, it grew, it grew up at

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Speaker 1: the end of the year. And remember they lost a

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Speaker 1: ton of close games early in the season and weird games.

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Speaker 1: They lost that in New England on remember Willie Jackson

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Speaker 1: got tackled at the one yard line or whatever it

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Speaker 1: was on that Hail Mary. They lost in St. Louis

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Speaker 1: when Brunelle turned it over a bunch and they threw

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Speaker 1: for over five hundred yards and Willie Jackson didn't go down.

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Speaker 1: Remember he didn't go down. Yeah, he wouldn't go down.

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Speaker 1: Everybody remembers at game teat they lost in New Orleans

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Speaker 1: in the exact same way. So they were they were there,

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Speaker 1: but they were still four in seven. And then guys

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Speaker 1: were growing up. They started getting better and you could

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Speaker 1: see it happening. And you know, that line was good

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Speaker 1: by the end of the year. You know, you know

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Speaker 1: in that Denver game, people forget that was Mike Cheever

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Speaker 1: start right. I mean, he he was gonna be a

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Speaker 1: good player if he hadn't heard his back, he was

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Speaker 1: gonna be a big time center in the NFL. And

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Speaker 1: that that line was playing well at the end of

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Speaker 1: the year. So I think they grew up. I mean

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Speaker 1: they look at the past fus they had Brackens who

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Speaker 1: in that game. By the way, I don't think he

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Speaker 1: got a sack in that game, if I remember Craty,

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Speaker 1: but any time he came in he didn't start. But

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Speaker 1: remember the left tackle was Gary Zimmerman, who's in the

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Speaker 1: Hall of Fame. The other guy on the other side

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Speaker 1: is a better tackle when he was better in that game.

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Speaker 1: By the way, I wanted to specifically watch those two.

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Speaker 1: Rackins went around Zimmerman a couple of different times in

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Speaker 1: that game. Clyde had his trouble with zimmermove, but Brackens

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Speaker 1: beat him u pretty good. And then they had log

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Speaker 1: Himan who was a good pass rusher, and Smeggy could

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Speaker 1: rush the passer, and they had bodies. They had waves

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Speaker 1: of guy Yorkovich and all those guys on the inside.

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Speaker 1: They had bodies in there, and it showed up and

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Speaker 1: they played fast and they were good on offense. So

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Speaker 1: it really when you it was a major upset. But

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Speaker 1: the way the game played out, and when you look

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Speaker 1: back on it in time, you know, it's almost like

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Speaker 1: that Ohio State team that beat Miami in college football

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Speaker 1: that one year on the end zone call that wasn't made.

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Speaker 1: Everybody said, oh my god, Miami. Well, that Ohio State

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Speaker 1: team was loaded too. When you go back and you

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Speaker 1: look at it. So I think that's what that's what

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Speaker 1: happened in the playoffs, and that's what happened. They got

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Speaker 1: hot at the right time. The the play that's time

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Speaker 1: to fascinate me out of this game. Everybody remembers the

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Speaker 1: Jimmy play. Everybody remembers the market now play again, the

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Speaker 1: Keenan catch. When I was talking to players about the

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Speaker 1: twenty five seasons last year, it was the selling who

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Speaker 1: reminded me that of the key and catch, and Tony said,

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Speaker 1: go back and watched that catch. The Keaton catching the

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Speaker 1: touchdown is one of the best catches in franchise history.

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Speaker 1: And you know what, you're right, but it's also a

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Speaker 1: pretty damn good throw by a guy on the move.

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Speaker 1: Remember he had got flushed out of the pocket by Romanowski,

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Speaker 1: I think, and got outside made that play, did H

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Speaker 1: And I remember being aware of how big that was,

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Speaker 1: but I don't think I realized when that was happening.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I hadn't cover the league long enough how good

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Speaker 1: that Jaguars team really was. And I need six Jaguars team.

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Speaker 1: It was not any way of flute that they wound

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Speaker 1: up winning double digit games the next three years that

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Speaker 1: was turning into a good team. Yeah they're not better,

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Speaker 1: they weren't better than them, but but they were starting

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Speaker 1: to grow up that playoff run and should have went

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Speaker 1: to the super Bowl and no business losing that Patriots team.

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Speaker 1: I don't think they would have beat Green Bay, but

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Speaker 1: they had no business losing the Patriots team. That Patriots

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Speaker 1: team was not better than that, No, but it it

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Speaker 1: just sort of felt the whole game that the jag

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Speaker 1: Warrens had woken up a little bit. There was I mean,

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Speaker 1: I mean, they made some weird mistakes and it was

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Speaker 1: almost like the moment was too big for him. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's what it felt like. They had the weird

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Speaker 1: fumble in the first half in conformation, and yeah, it

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Speaker 1: just sort of felt like, whoa are we really supposed

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Speaker 1: to be here? And I never got any players to

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Speaker 1: say that, but that's how it felt. And Jimmy ran

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Speaker 1: the wrong route and Willie Clay picked off Mark Ron

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Speaker 1: on the end zone. Jimmy had never admit that, but

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Speaker 1: he did. And I can remember it or not, but

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Speaker 1: after that game, we had to walk around looking for this,

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Speaker 1: looking for the car, Foxboro Stadium, looking for the car

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Speaker 1: because Gene fre net had parked in the wrong place

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Speaker 1: and the tow truck had moved his car behind the dumpster.

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Speaker 1: Remember how cold it was that day too, And so

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Speaker 1: finally it probably took us forty five minutes. And finally

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Speaker 1: remember Gene walking around or somebody walk around, going, jeez,

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Speaker 1: that's your car and it had been moved and it

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Speaker 1: was behind a dumpster. How we ever founded I have

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Speaker 1: no idea. I remember that. I remember how cold it

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Speaker 1: was because that place was a dump and a rector

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Speaker 1: set remember the press box. It was freezing. And for

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Speaker 1: people who don't remember, that was one of the old

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Speaker 1: NFL stadiums back in the mid nineties there were still

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Speaker 1: we had gone from covering well mile high still wasn't

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Speaker 1: that great? I mean it was three old stadiums went

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Speaker 1: to play it the worst stadium they ever played in

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Speaker 1: by far, though, you'll remember it. Which one was that Baltimore? Oh?

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Speaker 1: I like that though, because that was the old Memorial Stadium. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but it was a it was a dump, but there

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Speaker 1: was something about this was nineties seven of the old clock.

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Speaker 1: Remember the old wasn't the Laungenes clock? Is that what

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Speaker 1: it was? A lunging Yeah, it was, remember it was

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Speaker 1: a dump. It was terrible, there was no doubt. But well,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to tell people. We wrote after that season.

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Speaker 1: A couple of weeks after, we got a call from

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Speaker 1: a literary agent and I used literary very loosely, but

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Speaker 1: a call from an agent to write the book that

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Speaker 1: became Jacks Riches. And every day throughout the offseason you

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Speaker 1: would go work out, you go to Smoothie Kane and

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Speaker 1: then we'd sit there and in the office at my

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Speaker 1: house in San Marco, we would write that book and

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Speaker 1: probably did that way six seven weeks. Yeah, yeah, and uh,

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Speaker 1: and then they became Jacks Riches. Yeah, and it was

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Speaker 1: too late coming out. By the time it came out,

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Speaker 1: the season had already started in nine remember. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was an impossible turnaround, it was it was. That was

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Speaker 1: a tough turn around. That was fun, though, and we

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Speaker 1: got to remember a lot of stories in our hands

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Speaker 1: and that was the good thing about out it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The thing I always always regret a little about that

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Speaker 1: book is we were under the constraints of the t

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Speaker 1: U at the time, and they really didn't want anything

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Speaker 1: in the book that hadn't been in the paper. If

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Speaker 1: you recall, there was a little bit of So there

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Speaker 1: was a limit in terms of time to how much

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Speaker 1: we could go back and talk to players and really

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Speaker 1: get deeper than we had gotten a newspaper. And I've

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Speaker 1: always kind of thought that if we could have gone

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Speaker 1: back and spent some time reporting it, re reporting it,

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Speaker 1: that it could have been really good. Maybe for another day,

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Speaker 1: maybe for another time we do that. But it was, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we weren't allowed that they were. They put so many

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Speaker 1: restrictions on us that it was like, you know, they

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Speaker 1: almost remember, they almost weren't being to let us even

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Speaker 1: do it. It was close and and I think that

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Speaker 1: again speaks to it being such another time. News papers

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Speaker 1: were different in the day. They were very territory. I'm

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Speaker 1: not saying these things to blame invators of the paper then,

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Speaker 1: because the paper it was a much different era for papers,

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Speaker 1: and they ruled their markets and they they ruled the

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Speaker 1: people who worked for him, and like we did, a

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Speaker 1: lot of it did include a lot of the stories,

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Speaker 1: background stuff that we could have put in there when

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Speaker 1: we weren't right, but we couldn't put it. We could

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Speaker 1: have been right, we if we were allowed to rereport

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Speaker 1: that book and put a lot of the stuff that

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Speaker 1: we had and we knew in that book it would

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Speaker 1: have been ten times better. No question. How should that

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Speaker 1: season be remembered, right, it's it's clearly the season I think,

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Speaker 1: maybe even more than the fans. The fans remember, But

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Speaker 1: why did it happen? They were a bunch of young

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Speaker 1: guys and kauf and brought them together and they just

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Speaker 1: kind of became mature or maturing at the right time.

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Speaker 1: That's why that happened. And you had a great mix.

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Speaker 1: You had had the young athletic quarterback, you know, the

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Speaker 1: wide receiver turning into a star, the other wide receiver

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Speaker 1: who could make catches like in run routes like nobody else. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You had a big, physical offensive line with two star tackles.

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Speaker 1: You had a running back in naturel means who got

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Speaker 1: hot at the right time. And then we go to defense,

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Speaker 1: and you know I mentioned that in the first segment

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Speaker 1: we did on the front. The front was athletic as hell,

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Speaker 1: and Brackens was an emerging star as a pass rusher.

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Speaker 1: By the end of the season, he was a star

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Speaker 1: as a pass rusher even though he's only playing situationally.

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Speaker 1: And then you look at that, you know, the rest

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Speaker 1: of those guys are growing up as well, so I

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Speaker 1: think the one week link of that team was probably

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Speaker 1: the secondary, right, But they were that was a good

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Speaker 1: football team by the end of the year. And I

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Speaker 1: think you're right it was how it kind of was

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Speaker 1: the impetus to get them going where you know, people

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Speaker 1: expected in the next year to be good, and then

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Speaker 1: they expected him the next year to be good, and

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Speaker 1: then the next year to be good. And they weren't

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Speaker 1: as good as they should have been. I don't think

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Speaker 1: in ninety seven, but in ninety nine that was the

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Speaker 1: team that was clearly the best. I thought they were

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Speaker 1: the best team in the league for me, I'll be

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Speaker 1: honest with you, they kind of run together. And when

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Speaker 1: I think about them and talk to players about those teams,

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Speaker 1: because for Jaguars dot Com I did some flashback type stories,

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Speaker 1: I don't remember that many details and all kinds of runs. Again,

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Speaker 1: what do you remember about the two years between if

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Speaker 1: I ask you about this, Yeah, I think I'll be

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Speaker 1: honest with John, I think they underachieved in those two seasons.

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Speaker 1: I mean, look, they won the division, right, they tied,

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Speaker 1: and they tied with the Steelers that one year, and

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Speaker 1: Steelers won the tiebreaker or something in in ninety seven. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they split the two they wanted and seven they had

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Speaker 1: to be. They were a wild card. They ran into

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Speaker 1: the buzz saw, remember, because they went to Denver and

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Speaker 1: they're still running for a hundred yards every back that

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Speaker 1: they throw in there. Remember they ran for over ground. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was well, that was the game that we always debated.

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Speaker 1: Remember because the Jaguars fell behind in that game and

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Speaker 1: they had come back and there was a key play

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the game that went the Broncos way,

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Speaker 1: and I thought they were going to come back and

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Speaker 1: upset them again. And then after that everything just the

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Speaker 1: fourth once the Broncos got it didn't matter who they

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Speaker 1: had three I think they had three backs. Derek Lavell

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Speaker 1: came off the bench and rushed for over a hundred

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Speaker 1: and the fourth quarter. But the resilience of those years,

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Speaker 1: I think is what stands out to me. Maybe I

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Speaker 1: had just never covered a team before enough to know,

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Speaker 1: but looking back, to get to the championship game, come

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Speaker 1: back and keep improving year after year after year, I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure the era as a whole the teens get

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Speaker 1: enough credit for. You know, it's not easy to win

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Speaker 1: in this league, it's not easy to make the playoffs,

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Speaker 1: and those teams did it. There was some impressive insistency,

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Speaker 1: I thought from Tom keeping that thing going. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: think about that's the first year they won the division, right,

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Speaker 1: So they won the division and they were they were

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Speaker 1: the first expansion team I think to make the playoffs

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Speaker 1: three of the first four years, correct, because Carolina didn't

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Speaker 1: do it. Carolina made it twice and then dropped. Remember

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Speaker 1: they beat New England in the first home player. Think

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Speaker 1: about that. They went to the playoffs to to two

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Speaker 1: seasons and didn't play a home playoff game you get

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Speaker 1: and played four of total. That's pretty amazing when you

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Speaker 1: think about it, because they played three on the road

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Speaker 1: in ninety six and played one of the road played

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Speaker 1: right the playoff game when they beat the Patriots here, right,

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Speaker 1: and then then they lost to the Jets. The When

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Speaker 1: I look back at that four year run, the overwhelming

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Speaker 1: feeling I have was this feeling of inevitability. And I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure i'm gonna I'm not I'm not sure i'm

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Speaker 1: gonna phrase this the right way, but in covering it,

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Speaker 1: it always felt like they were on the five year

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Speaker 1: plan and nine they were getting better. They were adding

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Speaker 1: in free agency, are adding in the draft, they were

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Speaker 1: keeping core guys, and it was all building towards and

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Speaker 1: that team for seventeen weeks felt like it was fulfilling

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Speaker 1: that how good was and why well they they? Well,

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Speaker 1: first of all, they had Fred Taylor on that team.

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Speaker 1: He was special. I mean the things he could do

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Speaker 1: out of the backfield because he's scared the daylights out

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Speaker 1: of defenses, and that changed, you know, nature means was

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Speaker 1: a nice runner, but he was he didn't scare you.

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Speaker 1: Fred Taylor right here, So he defended the team differently.

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Speaker 1: And not only that, Brunelle had grown up a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Jimmy was a star by that time. I'm gonna star,

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Speaker 1: one of the best in the league. And then you

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Speaker 1: had those tackles in that offensive line. That's defensively, your

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Speaker 1: Brackens by then was a star and you know in

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Speaker 1: today's game he would be he would be four teen

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Speaker 1: sack guy and consistently. So they had a correct that

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Speaker 1: person That team had personality too, you know, the ninety

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Speaker 1: nine team had you know, Fernando, remember he had the personnel.

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Speaker 1: They had more personality after started the show off and

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Speaker 1: let him show it. A little more and they played

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Speaker 1: looser other than when they played the Densie Titans. I

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Speaker 1: mean they played so tight against that team. Every time

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Speaker 1: they played them. They were tight no matter what. Did

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Speaker 1: Tennessee not caused that a little bit? I think Tennessee

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Speaker 1: it was the classic case and it wasn't exactly accurate either.

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Speaker 1: Jacksonville was perceived as a past team soft, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: not physical, where Tennessee was perceived as the pounded team

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Speaker 1: with Eddie George and they were physical and defense. Now

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Speaker 1: maybe that's the case, but Jacksonville could be physical when

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Speaker 1: they needed to be too. I just think that there

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Speaker 1: was something in their head when it came to Tennessee.

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Speaker 1: It's something whether they couldn't tackle Steve McNair. They never

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Speaker 1: could tackle Steve McNair, right, And and you know, because

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Speaker 1: lining up and playing Eddie George run the football, it's

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Speaker 1: not going to scare you. But when you got a

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Speaker 1: quarterback and get outside the pocket and throw tacklers off

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Speaker 1: them for thirty yard games, that does so. And plus

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Speaker 1: I think it got in their head think about it.

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Speaker 1: They should have beat him the first time that they

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Speaker 1: could should have won. You I mean, not the opener

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Speaker 1: of the September game here right, because remember it was

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Speaker 1: pouring and Coughlin called for the pass and the end

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Speaker 1: zone and samari Roll picked it off and then they

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Speaker 1: took the safety and won by a point. Uh. Then

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Speaker 1: you had the game in late in the season in

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Speaker 1: Nashville where they were basically it already clinched almost the

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Speaker 1: number one seed and the number one the division, and

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Speaker 1: it didn't really They got to ambush by the tight end.

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Speaker 1: Remember every tight end on the field caught eight passes

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Speaker 1: against him. Frank White check running down the middle of

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Speaker 1: that field wide open, all that I don't open. And

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Speaker 1: and Aaron Kinney I think even caught a bunch in

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Speaker 1: game it would destroyed. And then and then in the

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Speaker 1: playoff game, I'll swear to this day that if they

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Speaker 1: don't fumble at the end of the half, they win

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Speaker 1: that game. They were they even as bad Brunel through

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Speaker 1: that band interception to Marcus Robertson, in the end, they

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Speaker 1: were the better team. And remember it was fourteen seven

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Speaker 1: and Reggie Barlow fumbled and they turned that into the

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Speaker 1: field goal. And in the locker room they started fighting.

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Speaker 1: Remember the fight who wasn't it was Larry Smith and

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Speaker 1: got into it. Reggie Barlow and the offensive guys got

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Speaker 1: into it, Larry Smith and the defensive guys, and it

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Speaker 1: was a fight at halftime, and they came out and

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Speaker 1: then when they got the sack, the sack is still

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Speaker 1: and it would have been a touchdown if they don't

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Speaker 1: blow the assignment on the right side, Jimmy Smith is

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Speaker 1: open for ninety nine yard touchdown. The complexion of that

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Speaker 1: game changes entirely. Instead, he gets sacked. They kicked off

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Speaker 1: Derek Mason upset twenty three on answer points. They were

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Speaker 1: never the same. They were never the same as a franchise.

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Speaker 1: That's what's amazing, is it. But we'll get to that

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Speaker 1: in a second. I wanted to ask you about the

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Speaker 1: That's when I thought some names of some players from

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Speaker 1: that era, and have you comment on him. First of all, Fred,

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Speaker 1: You just mentioned Fred to me, He's a Hall of

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Speaker 1: Fame running back who never gets the credit. He's, dude,

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Speaker 1: I agree, one of the truly special runners the league

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Speaker 1: has ever seen. When you think about it, he was

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Speaker 1: two hundred and thirty two pounds and ran away from

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Speaker 1: people and was strong and tough and could catch it.

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Speaker 1: I still, you know, to this day, one of the

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Speaker 1: great the Ravens team that set the scoring record for defense,

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Speaker 1: did they did? Jaguars blistered them that year, remember for

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Speaker 1: thirty six points and it wasn't right. Yeah, but remember

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Speaker 1: the one game where Fred Taylor lined up against Rod

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Speaker 1: Woodson and ran by him for a nine d R

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Speaker 1: was a e d yard touchdown reception or whatever it was.

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Speaker 1: That was Fred's rookie year and he cut a seventy

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Speaker 1: five eight. It just ran by with him right, and

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Speaker 1: then and then and then they did that to them

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Speaker 1: the next year and what two thousand? That was right?

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Speaker 1: They destroyed them and the team that year. But Fred

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Speaker 1: was remarkable and what he could stop and start and

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Speaker 1: cut and explode out of the cuts and again four

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Speaker 1: point six four point five per more. I think it

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Speaker 1: was an eight straight seasons per carry. There aren't a

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Speaker 1: lot of guys that have done that, and that that's

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Speaker 1: why he's truly special. The only knock on him is

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Speaker 1: in my mind is the touchdowns. But we know why

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Speaker 1: that happened, because James Stewart got all his touchdowns. They

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Speaker 1: took him out. It's still believe me, I bring it

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Speaker 1: up with Fred. It's still a point of contention. With him.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't like it as well as Sydney. Jimmy Smith.

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Speaker 1: For three years, he was as good as anybody not

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Speaker 1: named Jerry Rice in the NFL. And in fact, those

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Speaker 1: numbers he had for that three year span or comparable

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Speaker 1: to Jerry Rice. He was one of those guys when

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Speaker 1: you talked to the the corners around the league. He was

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Speaker 1: so strong that if you put your hands on him,

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Speaker 1: he'd get him off him and he'd run by it

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Speaker 1: the fear when they line up. I worked with Brian

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Speaker 1: McFadden played for the Steelers, and he were, you know,

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Speaker 1: talking about Jimmy and he said everybody, every corner in

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Speaker 1: the league feared Jimmy because he was so strong. And

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Speaker 1: remember he didn't go over the middle that much, are

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Speaker 1: they at all? Yeah, So that tells you how great

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Speaker 1: he was as a receiver on the outside, he'd beat

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Speaker 1: surrounding two routes. He ran and out and if you

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Speaker 1: guarded that he gets get his hands on her on

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Speaker 1: the faint. Yeah. And you know what's too amazing is

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Speaker 1: it's it's sad that it was cut short because Jimmy

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Speaker 1: Smith legitimately had a chance to be a Hall of

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Speaker 1: Famer if he plays out his career. He has a

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Speaker 1: chance to be a Hall of Fame receiver, which would

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Speaker 1: have been an incredible story considering where he came from. Well,

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Speaker 1: let's remarkable about that if he plays it out it

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Speaker 1: or if he played his first three years right, because

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Speaker 1: he didn't play until in Jacksonville, he would in in

427
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Speaker 1: in didn't play. Told what, he didn't play almost at

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Speaker 1: all in that season. Then in ninety six when they

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Speaker 1: cut Andre Rise and he became a starter. He was

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Speaker 1: drafted in ninety three. Right. Remember he has the first

431
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 1: two years in the Cowboys, right, So he didn't really

432
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:30,639
Speaker 1: start his career until four years after he's drafted. And

433
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 1: Jimmy will be the first one to admit now he

434
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 1: had he had substance abuse issues that throughout his entire career.

435
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 1: And you know, I was able to play through it

436
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,879
Speaker 1: and play with it and was star with it. But

437
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,119
Speaker 1: eventually it caught up to him when he got in

438
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,120
Speaker 1: trouble with the league. So, um, you know, I still

439
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 1: to this day and I like Jimmy a lot, but

440
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 1: I remember I bumped into Jimmy after he was suspended

441
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 1: and he came over to me and he said, come on, Pete.

442
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 1: You know me. You know I didn't do that. And

443
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 1: I said, Jimmy, I know you from covering you. I

444
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,119
Speaker 1: don't know anybody. I don't know what you guys, what

445
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 1: you do in your own time. And it was sad

446
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 1: and and Jimmy has turned his life around and and

447
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 1: I'm happy for him, and I will always enjoy having

448
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: covered him. He was always stand he'd stand up. Remember,

449
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 1: he'd always show up. One thing about Jimmy, he'd show

450
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 1: up after games, good or bad. I wrote the first

451
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:23,479
Speaker 1: big story in the Times Union about Jimmy and it

452
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 1: was when he probably two threeks after he had signed.

453
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 1: Didn't know much about him, had been covering colleges and

454
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,360
Speaker 1: he had just signed as a street free agent. Remember,

455
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 1: and you told me, he said, Johnny, need to do

456
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 1: a story in Jimmy Smith. And I didn't know who

457
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 1: he was. And the story at that time was basically

458
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,679
Speaker 1: how he had been sick with the Cowboys and was

459
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 1: trying to restart his career. And that was in So

460
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 1: that was it was a year and a half away

461
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 1: from him being anything good or not. But he truly

462
00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 1: started from nothing when he got to the Jaguars. Ron Hill,

463
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:02,439
Speaker 1: by the way, who worked in the front office had

464
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: to convince Tom Coughlin to take a look at Jimmy Smith.

465
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: That's how that happened, right, And remember his mom was

466
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:13,160
Speaker 1: sending out clippings to everybody trying to get him a job. Yeah,

467
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,880
Speaker 1: he was a great player, A great player. Keenan one

468
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 1: of my all time favorites still is to this day.

469
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: I loved interacting with Keenan, good or bad. Uh. You know,

470
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 1: I always joked with Keenan that he was that the

471
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 1: happier receiver when he caught seven for one twenty rather

472
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 1: than when he caught two and if he got seven

473
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,400
Speaker 1: from him twenty and they lost, and he caught two

474
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: for seventeen and they won, he was happier when he

475
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: caught seven for one twent You, you and me would

476
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 1: both agree on that. There's no doubt about that, right. Yeah.

477
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 1: And it wasn't. Actually we recorded one of these with

478
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 1: Keena and a couple of weeks back. It wasn't that

479
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 1: he was selfish on that front, because when you say that,

480
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,479
Speaker 1: that makes him sound like he didn't care about winning.

481
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: He cared about inning, but he cared so intently about

482
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: the craft, about being great. I mean, it's common today

483
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: for people to talk about players to play with the

484
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: chip on their shoulder. He played with the chip that

485
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 1: he never forgot. So there was something in him that, yes,

486
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:24,120
Speaker 1: he wanted to win, but he wanted to contribute and

487
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 1: he wanted to matter in it. And you know what

488
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 1: I'm saying, like I never got can person care about

489
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: because he made himself into a player. He was nothing

490
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 1: and and and I always say this, People ask me

491
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 1: who are the best route runners You've ever seen? And

492
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: I say, Isaac Bruce was one of them, and Keena

493
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 1: McCardell's the other one. Those two. You know, Steve Largent

494
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: was a great round road, but those two. Keena McCardell.

495
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,640
Speaker 1: I can remember sitting in the team meeting room doing

496
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: a story with him, talking about how to run the

497
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 1: post corner because he was great at it. Guys barely

498
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: even run that route anymore. He was great at it.

499
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 1: And I think him being able to teach that his

500
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: shows off with the other wide RECEI was have grown

501
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: up a little bit of Jacksonville d J CHARKI you

502
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: can see the difference in DJ Chark because of Keenan,

503
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: and Keenan was always that guy who worked at it.

504
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: UM my favorite Keenan. He would remember you remember this,

505
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 1: He'd title over and go one in one a right,

506
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 1: and we go yeah, maybe more like one and two Keenan,

507
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: but it's a good right, yeah. He uh. It was

508
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 1: interesting in the last podcast when I was talking to him,

509
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: him and Jimmy are obviously will be forever linked, and

510
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 1: we talked a lot about just what an incredible fate

511
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 1: or whatever it was. These are two guys who became

512
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 1: I think one of the best receiving combinations in NFL history.

513
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: Although you have a tough time convincing people that, but

514
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 1: if you look at the numbers in terms of when

515
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: they played and and they literally both came from nowhere,

516
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: Neither one of them should have been in the league

517
00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: at the time. They had the talent to be it,

518
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 1: but they were both many reasons why they shouldn't have

519
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 1: been in the league at that point. Keenan didn't start

520
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 1: reaching potential until even six years in. But they pushed

521
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: each other, and I'm not sure that without the other

522
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 1: one either was either one of them would have had

523
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:22,880
Speaker 1: the careers they had, no without questions. I mean, they

524
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 1: complimented each other perfectly, perfectly. I mean, when you look

525
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: at it, Jimmy had eight hundred sixty two catches, right,

526
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,959
Speaker 1: I mean eight hundred and sixty two catches, had eight

527
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: three between them and their careers. I mean, you gotta

528
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: look long and hard to find duos that played as

529
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: long together as they did that put up those kind

530
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 1: of numbers. You know, Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne they

531
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: did it, um. But they're considered one of the best

532
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: receiving combos in the league. And they also played in

533
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: a little bit of a different like the nineties were

534
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 1: not the mid to late two thousands in terms of

535
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: how of how often people through. It was a little

536
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: different by then. No, Bruce and Holt, they they're they're

537
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: they mix in there. Sure, yeah, but but they're in

538
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 1: the comment that you're you're right though, John, And they're

539
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 1: in the conversation, and and and when you look at it,

540
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: particularly when you know, I'm just looking at Jimmy's number,

541
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: Jimmy had he did nothing. So at ninety six he

542
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: did half a year. So he had one, two, three, four, five, six, seven,

543
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: eight seasons where he played sixteen games eight and the

544
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 1: only year in there. There's a streak with Jimmy. And

545
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: I'm not looking at the stats. The only year he

546
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: wasn't over a thousand for like an eight or nine

547
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 1: year period was the year he only played twelve games. Yeah,

548
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: he went eight. Remarkably consistent, productive player in this league. Yeah,

549
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: he only started nine games in ninety six and had

550
00:29:55,160 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 1: twelve hundred yards receiving. He went and two these are

551
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: sixteen thirty six, twelve, thirteen, thirteen, seventy three, thousand, twenty seven,

552
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: eight oh five when he was hurt, even seventy two

553
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: and thousand and twenty three. That's pretty. And then the

554
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: yards per catched two it was fifteen, sixteen, fifteen, fourteen.

555
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: He had one years thirteen, fourteen, nine fifteen. I mean yeah,

556
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 1: I mean incredible what he did in terms of the numbers,

557
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: and that three years span I always talk about is

558
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: one sixteen for six hundred. The best part to me

559
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: about the ninety nine season with Jimmy, that was his

560
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 1: best seen. That's when he caught sixteen hundred balls or yards.

561
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: In November of that season. Our editor at the t

562
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 1: U made me right, a what's wrong with Jimmy Smith story?

563
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 1: Because he only had well, he was struggling, remember, Yeah,

564
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 1: there was something going on, and I remember having to

565
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: go to Jimmy and say, hey, Jimmy, here's what I'm

566
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: having to write. I gotta ask you about it. And

567
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: he gave me a look like what but alright, And

568
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: it again speaks the kind of guy who was. He

569
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: understood what was going on. I wrote it. He didn't

570
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: like it, but he still worked with me on it

571
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: so good and the story was actually, when you're looking

572
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: at it, he went to for eighteen, three for twenty one,

573
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 1: six for sixty two, eight nine, four for seventy seven,

574
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: seven for fifty two, which is probably when you wrote

575
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: the story, and then he went nine for two twenty

576
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 1: and then ten. Remember at the end of the year

577
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: he went fourteen for one. Yeah, what happened after that?

578
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: There was more than just the cap. Well, the cap

579
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: was a big hit, but bad personnel decisions were also involved.

580
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: You know, I go back to the you know, we

581
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: talked about the Titans and they couldn't cover the tight

582
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: end and Tom panicked and he wanted Randall godfre You

583
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: remember Randall Godfrey signed with the Titans. So who did

584
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: he end up with? Party knickers? He was a broken

585
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: down old man by that, and so that those kind

586
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: of moves coupled with the cap crippled them. The cap

587
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 1: getting out of hand at crippled Leon getting hurt in

588
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: two thousand crippled them a little bit too. Remember it

589
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: was it was a first early practice and training camp.

590
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: He went out for the year. That's always the point

591
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: that I think about it. I wasn't there. The paper

592
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: had sent me to Miami because it's still in the

593
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 1: day where the NFL writer wrote other stories there and

594
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: were you calling me or something? Hey? Leon got hurt

595
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: and he was out for the season, and I never

596
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: played again. I don't think, um, And there was something

597
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: about that. It was just whatever magic it felt like

598
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 1: the ascension. It had been an upward graph before that,

599
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: and it was never the same effort. Leon got hurt,

600
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: And I know that's too simplist pick, but it's just

601
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: you never played again. You never played again after that.

602
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 1: Remember the Ravens signed, right, sound of the Ravens that

603
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: never worked? Is that? Um And I will some up

604
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: with a few more questions about that era because it

605
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 1: fascinates me. I think there's a lot of people who

606
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 1: are listening to this now that we think of that

607
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: time because we were young and covering it. But there's

608
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: people listening to it who all they do is read

609
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 1: about and what YouTube videos. But aside from not winning

610
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: the Super Bowl, which that's what you gotta do and

611
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: you have to get there, that team doesn't get credit

612
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: for being a really, really good team for an extended

613
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 1: period in this league. No, I mean it helped that

614
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 1: they had all those draft picks in the first year.

615
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 1: Let's be honest, when they have two in every round,

616
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 1: john I mean, yeah, it's incredible. I mean and for

617
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 1: everyone they hit, they blew one right. Well, that what

618
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: it was. It was basally, which is Stewart was the

619
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,320
Speaker 1: second first round pick. He wasn't bad, now, he was okay,

620
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: But but if you draft James Stewart in the first

621
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: round and then four years later you gotta draft Fred

622
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 1: Taylor in the first round, then you haven't done it right.

623
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: That's the way, Okay, Brian de Marca was a washout

624
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,959
Speaker 1: second round. Brian Schwartz could have been good, got hurt

625
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: and it's never the same Chris Hudson. They chased that

626
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: safety position eighty thousand times after that, so including the

627
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 1: next year when they picked Mike Logan, so he never

628
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: worked out. Rob Johnson ended up being a work working

629
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 1: out for him because he drafted Fred, he ended up

630
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: trading him to get Fred Taylor and Donovan Darius. Then

631
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: the rest of that group wasn't so good. But ironically

632
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 1: the seventh round picked that year, his son is now

633
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 1: on a team, Curtis, and it really is you know,

634
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 1: one of the first things you have to do when

635
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 1: you get back in there and get to talk to

636
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: cash his morris is tell him about his dad's first Mini.

637
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,320
Speaker 1: Can't remember that. Remember when he was screaming and yelling

638
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 1: you can't cover me. You can't remember that. And then

639
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 1: you wrote the story when Curtis Uh talked about how

640
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 1: talented he was, right, because he was talented, and you

641
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 1: wrote what he said, and the other players are mad

642
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,399
Speaker 1: at you for right and what he said, remember, yeah,

643
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 1: and then they said wait till we put the pads on.

644
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 1: Right ended up the coach too. He was a good

645
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: He was a good guy and a talented player. And

646
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: he was but like you know, every talking about the

647
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 1: fifth round picked that year, he never lived it down.

648
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:56,759
Speaker 1: They picked Ryan Christopherson before the Pickturell Day. Yeah, it

649
00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 1: was not a great draft outside of the client him.

650
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: The guys that staying around. So no, and and you

651
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: had two picks. I mean, it was just and so

652
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: I think that kind of stuff started to show up,

653
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 1: and you know, did they ever solve certain positions? Like

654
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:17,879
Speaker 1: I think Mike Cheever getting hurt really set them back.

655
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 1: He's probably to me Pete the like every franchise has

656
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: their what if guy. And I know he played center

657
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: and he only played for a short time so and

658
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: never be remembered by the masses as such, but him

659
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 1: and maybe Tavian were the two what if guys at

660
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 1: that era. Well, when you think about it, John that

661
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 1: that nineties six draft was Hardy, Brackens, Chiever, Beasley first

662
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 1: four picks. Barlow was the fourth round pick. That's a

663
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: good drafted four beas. I forgot about that. Yeah, that's

664
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 1: a good draft. I mean you looked at on that

665
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: was really good draft. You get Hardy, Brackens, Chiever and

666
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 1: Beasley and Barlow in your first five picks, that's a

667
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: good draft. But chie were getting hurt kind of set

668
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: it back, right because he was on his way to

669
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 1: be in an all. I don't know that he'd have

670
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 1: been to seally, but out of their draft picks for

671
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: linemen of that era, he was the guy. He was

672
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:21,800
Speaker 1: the second round center or third round center in the

673
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: second round. Uh, he was draft in the second round. Yeah. Yeah,

674
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 1: So that's a premium pick at center and he was

675
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 1: on his way to play and like it, and that

676
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 1: would have really solidified because they went out, went out

677
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: and had to find that new year later. Remember, they

678
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,879
Speaker 1: started blowing. They started blowing. They weren't blowing the first

679
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 1: round picks because Tom was good with the first round picks.

680
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 1: They started blowing picks on like James Hamilton's, Cordell Taylor,

681
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 1: Jonathan Quinn, Larry Smith, the pre Anthony Sceario, the second

682
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 1: and third round picks who should have been guys that

683
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 1: were ready to take over when you had cap issues

684
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: and ready and then you had to sign guys to

685
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: replace those guys. You had to sign free agency replace them.

686
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 1: So think about this draft at nine for Nando Bryant

687
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 1: who ended up being a good player, Larry Smith disaster,

688
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 1: Anthony Cecerio god rest his soul disaster, Kevin landol disaster,

689
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 1: Jason Kraft was okay, or Marlo's Lee Roy. I mean

690
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: it wasn't a good draft. Yeah. They were always a

691
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,320
Speaker 1: perfect example of the tween me Pete that if you

692
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 1: hit in the first round, you can and you have

693
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 1: a quarterback, you can make everything else okay, because there's

694
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: premium positions matter. But if you missed too often, yeah,

695
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,359
Speaker 1: it's it's tough to do it when you never hit

696
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 1: outside the first round. I remember the one a long

697
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: time for war receiver help. They drafted those last three

698
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 1: that well, you drafted Barlow, but then they drafted Doring,

699
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 1: Jones and span remember that late think one of them

700
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 1: end up being a player. Yeah, yeah, during stuck around

701
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: a little while, but just not here. That's that. Then

702
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: it just ended in two thousand, had just ended. That

703
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 1: was the end of it. It started on round. It was.

704
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 1: It was. It's always been interesting to me because the

705
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: it was almost like that first four or five year

706
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 1: period that was how long it was meant to last.

707
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 1: From a personal point of view. You know, you left

708
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 1: in late two thousand. I left in two thousand one,

709
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 1: but that four or five year Jaguar period, probably because

710
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: I'm I'm colored by being around it being so young.

711
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 1: But I'll always think of that as you know, probably

712
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 1: the best time that I've had covered in the NFL

713
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: and where I learned the most, and I look back

714
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: and think, boy, what a unique time it was to cover.

715
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 1: And that's why whenever people criticize Coughlin, to me, I

716
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 1: sort of stepped back from it. Think, you know what,

717
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 1: say whatever, Say whatever you want about the man, but

718
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,839
Speaker 1: he was the blood of the franchise at that point.

719
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 1: If you're following, there was no question about it. That

720
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: two and two teams, and you know that was one

721
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: of the best coaching jobs. And people still around the

722
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: league tell me that because that team was terrible, terrible,

723
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 1: and he got six weeks with the Colts. By then

724
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 1: they were in the same division, and the Colts at

725
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:31,800
Speaker 1: the end of that season we're playing the Jaguars with

726
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: the possibility of the playoffs at stake. I think the

727
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 1: way it played out, the Colts had already clinched, but

728
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 1: they were just starting their run. It was Dungee's first

729
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 1: year and they were trying to get in as a

730
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 1: wild guard. I think they quenched it on like a

731
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,839
Speaker 1: Saturday victory by somebody else or whatever. But I can

732
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: remember Poleon and a couple other people at the Colts

733
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: that week. The game scared them for one reason because

734
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: Tom Coffin was coaching that team. So if it had

735
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: been anybody else, they would have thought they had it

736
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,879
Speaker 1: in the bag. But I heard from the Colts people

737
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:09,719
Speaker 1: that week, Pete, the same thing that you heard around

738
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 1: the league that year. It was a it was a

739
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 1: decimated franchise in terms of talent, but he was still coaching.

740
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: So that day the weird and I think what happened

741
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 1: at the end of that game was was a current

742
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 1: Jaguars player development guy, Marcus Pollard. I think he caught

743
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:35,399
Speaker 1: the winging touchdown, but that it was. It was such

744
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: a strange thing for me, Pete that game, because we

745
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 1: all knew Time was getting fired. I'm already covering the

746
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 1: Colt so where it wasn't my team anymore. But the

747
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:48,319
Speaker 1: idea of Tom not coaching the Jaguars at that point

748
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 1: was surreal, And because he had been the franchise and

749
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 1: I had always sort of assumed very illogically, but it

750
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: it always felt to me like he would always coach

751
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 1: the franchise like he was an unfirable Again, of course,

752
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 1: nobody's unfirable, but it was to the point, Pete, when

753
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: I came back in two thousand eleven, I hadn't been

754
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,839
Speaker 1: inside the offices since I had left in two thousand one,

755
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 1: and when I walked in in two thousand eleven, I

756
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,959
Speaker 1: couldn't have verbalized it, but I was walking around still

757
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 1: looking for Tom to come down the hallway. Asked me

758
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:33,319
Speaker 1: why I was in there. Yeah, because that's how much

759
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: in those early days they were inseparable. And it's every coach,

760
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: but he was in the walls. Man, he was in

761
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 1: the wall. Nobody, no coach in NFL history, and I'm saying,

762
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 1: including Belichick had as much authority as Tom Coughland had

763
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 1: the building. Belichick might have the football authority. Tom Coughlan

764
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: had the entire higher building authority. Remember that's what it was.

765
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 1: He used to complain about ticketing in this and see

766
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: he'd worry about the dumbest stuff and he shouldn't, but

767
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:14,359
Speaker 1: he did. I'll give you without that, you don't get

768
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 1: the rest. I'll give you one. Guess. There's no way

769
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: you're gonna do it because I don't remember. But the

770
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:30,359
Speaker 1: kicker for Jacksonville in that last game a man because

771
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 1: he came around the next year. I had nothing. Danny

772
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 1: boyd Danny boy in the thirty two yard field goal

773
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 1: in the yards. Yeah, we could have. There will be

774
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 1: people who say that these podcasts I went on forever,

775
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 1: because we've talked a long time. We could have really

776
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: gone on forever. And I never gotten Danny Boyd. No,

777
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:54,839
Speaker 1: I don't remember Danny. I had left, but I don't

778
00:43:54,840 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 1: remember Danny Boyd. Well, Pete, we could talk about the

779
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: old Jag stuff forever, and I'm sure there's stuff we missed,

780
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 1: but uh, you know, we'll wrap it on that. And

781
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:10,399
Speaker 1: I certainly enjoyed this. I hope to do it again

782
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 1: with you at some point, but I hope people enjoyed

783
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 1: it because there was something really magical about those times.

784
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 1: And it feels to me like even the people in

785
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: the city who covered or maybe be covered, but who

786
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 1: watched those teams sort of still feel it. So hopefully

787
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 1: listening to these people got a little insight and a

788
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: little look back on him and Beat. I appreciate you

789
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: doing it. Yeah, and the facility of the hall. Tom

790
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: Coughlin will be in the hall, hopefully Fred will get

791
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 1: there and maybe even Jimmy Subday, because all four of

792
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:46,320
Speaker 1: them deserved to be in the whole thing all for

793
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,879
Speaker 1: them should be no question. Pete, thank you, my friend.

794
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:53,839
Speaker 1: You go to take care, Dave. I'm always I can

795
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:57,320
Speaker 1: talk to Pete all day about the Jag because obviously,

796
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 1: for five or six years it is our life. We

797
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 1: would talk to each other on the phone back when

798
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 1: we had landline. Uh, we would talk to each other

799
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 1: on the phone at nine thirty at night, nine ten o'clock,

800
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 1: talking about the next day, talking about what happened that day.

801
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 1: So we lived it. It was our world in the

802
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 1: way that the Jaguars now is our world. The people

803
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 1: who work in our in our department with the Jags.

804
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 1: But I'm curious when you're listening to Pete. You were

805
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 1: a fan of this team growing up, and Pete covered

806
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 1: him in the Glory Days. Do you remember anything about

807
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 1: Pete that time reading his stories? Were you aware of

808
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 1: who he was, and if so, any memories of that

809
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 1: time for you? Oh yeah, I knew if he was.

810
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 1: It's funny, actually have two funny stories. It's like, you know,

811
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 1: working in kind of you know, I worked worked at

812
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 1: a local TV station before I worked for the Jaguars,

813
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 1: and then before that I worked all over the place,

814
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: all over the country. And two times where I was

815
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 1: just a little bit star struck meeting a media guy

816
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 1: was when I met when I was in college and

817
00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 1: I went to school in U c. F. In Orlando.

818
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 1: I met Bianche. I was like, oh, it's Bianchi. I

819
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 1: was like, I used to read the Bianchi column all

820
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 1: the time. And then the other was Pete Prisco. When

821
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 1: I moved back to Jacksonville to work in oh eight

822
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 1: or oh nine, it was somewhere around the stadium, and

823
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 1: I remember going up. I used to read you when

824
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 1: I was a kid, And of course he made some

825
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 1: snide comment about me being young at the time of

826
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 1: the Left. But but yeah, I knew who he was.

827
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:27,319
Speaker 1: I read him all the time. You know you guys

828
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:29,359
Speaker 1: used to do at the times Junion used guys put

829
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 1: out like the special edition on Sundays where I know you,

830
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 1: which you worked on a lot. I remember basically I

831
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 1: would read that cover to cover, um, you know, every

832
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 1: every Sunday morning, and and uh after that. And actually

833
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 1: he was on the radio forever in town here. I

834
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: remember listening to him him all the time then then

835
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:54,439
Speaker 1: to um like and this is honest, which it sounds

836
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 1: funny now since I've been around Pete now eleven years.

837
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 1: Is in some capacity, it's like I was starting a

838
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: little starstruck when I first met him, because he was

839
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 1: my you and and you're you're kind of part of

840
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: the as a fan. They're your conduits to the team

841
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 1: right there, who gives you the information and and somehow

842
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,760
Speaker 1: you think they're on the inside. They're on the inside,

843
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 1: and you know, and they're as much as part as

844
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 1: the team as as the players on the team in

845
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 1: some weird way. He always had a real grasp of that.

846
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 1: My role at the time was a little different, obviously

847
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 1: it is now. I covered the Jags and I was

848
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 1: pizza back up. But a lot of what I did

849
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 1: they would send me, like when they beat Denver in

850
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 1: the playoffs that year in the Times Union sent me

851
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,759
Speaker 1: to Denver. I flew out, I think the Tuesday morning

852
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 1: before the game, spent Wednesday Thursday going to the Broncos,

853
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:55,840
Speaker 1: and it was it was a very fascinating time in

854
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:57,840
Speaker 1: my career. I did the same thing. I went to

855
00:47:57,920 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 1: do a Rob Johnson story the first year he came

856
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 1: back and play the or ninety eight after you've been traded.

857
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 1: It's a fascinating thing and it's it's incredibly satisfying professionally,

858
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 1: But I wasn't really the Jaguars guy the way that

859
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:18,319
Speaker 1: Pete was. When you're the beat guy, there's something about

860
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 1: that connection with the team. You're inside it every day.

861
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 1: You're the one calling agents, you're the one dealing with it.

862
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 1: And Pete always had a real awareness. He was a

863
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 1: fantastic beat guy. I learned more from him in five

864
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 1: or six years. I was only on the Jaguars beat

865
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 1: is the main guy a short time, but I've always

866
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:42,280
Speaker 1: respected the job Pete did and knowing what the fans

867
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 1: wanted to read, knowing how to get that information from

868
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 1: the players, knowing how to go to the right people.

869
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 1: It's it's not not rocket science. It's not the hardest

870
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 1: job in the world. But people who do it well

871
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 1: are a little different than the people who were just

872
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 1: there doing it. Pete was fantas astic. He had a

873
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 1: way of working with players and interesting about Pete and

874
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:06,240
Speaker 1: this maybe a little football one oh one inside baseball,

875
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 1: but that's what podcasts are all about. Pete was really

876
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 1: as much as Pete is, a confrontational guy, and I

877
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 1: think most people who've met Pete he doesn't mind getting

878
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,439
Speaker 1: in an argument. He was great covering Tom Coughlin because

879
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 1: he would not get intimidated. I was a young guy

880
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 1: at the time, I was twenty six. If I had

881
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 1: been on the beat alone, it would have taken me

882
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 1: a few weeks, months, whatever to really get used to

883
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 1: dealing with Tom because he could intimidate people. I was

884
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:35,799
Speaker 1: a young guy, probably would have needed time to get

885
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 1: used to that. Pete was ready boy and he never

886
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 1: backed down with Tom. He was very good. But the

887
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:44,719
Speaker 1: thing about Pete that separated him from a lot of

888
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 1: beat guys, and maybe people who listened to him on

889
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 1: the radio don't quite grasp that he could be confrontational,

890
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 1: but it was never personal with Pete. Meaning a beat

891
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: guy who gets into it with the head coach and

892
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 1: then whole it's a grudge, or a beat guy who

893
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 1: won't go talk to the head coach after they've had

894
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 1: a confrontation. Well, who does that hurt? That hurts the reader? Right?

895
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 1: Pete could. He had a knack and even with Coughlank

896
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: and remember times they would get into it, they would

897
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 1: be yelling. We would walk to the rubber hallway. For

898
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 1: people who don't know, the media conferences were on one

899
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 1: end of EverBank Field or it was it was out

900
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 1: all statement time. T I Bank field now and you'd

901
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 1: walk this long rubber hallway, which I'm sure most war

902
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 1: fans have heard reference to, and they'd get down to

903
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:32,839
Speaker 1: the coach's office and it'd be a four or five

904
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 1: minute walk, maybe not that long, but a long walk,

905
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:37,840
Speaker 1: and they would argue. They'd beat it to other's throats.

906
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 1: Most of the time. By the end, Pete would have

907
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:46,439
Speaker 1: Tom laughing about something, or if it was over, Pete

908
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 1: would laugh or he always knew that it was about

909
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 1: getting the story. And he's deep down a really good guy.

910
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:59,280
Speaker 1: And you've been around today. He can argue with the Sally.

911
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 1: It's the reason Besselian Priscoe's show works. They can argue

912
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 1: and argue and argue, but you know, deep down there's

913
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 1: a respect there, and you know that Pete gets it.

914
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 1: He's having fun. He doesn't come out and rip for

915
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 1: no reason. You never get the idea that's malicious if

916
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 1: you follow me like, he's not trying to you know,

917
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:21,880
Speaker 1: ruined careers or Vendetta's. He just calls it as he

918
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 1: sees it. But again, I think people can tell on

919
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 1: my tone. We go back a long ways. My best

920
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:30,360
Speaker 1: friends in the business, my best friends world. I had

921
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 1: a great time talking to him. I think, you know,

922
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, Dave, Uh, it's one that I think

923
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 1: if we talked to Pete on a podcast once a year,

924
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 1: I don't think we ever get born because he's a

925
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 1: fascinating guy, fascinating stories. But the Pete prison, I guess,

926
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 1: sort of ends our off season podcast day. I mean

927
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 1: it's We've talked to Dave Calbover, talked to Michael Silver,

928
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:56,839
Speaker 1: Peter King. Everything so far has had a very uh

929
00:51:57,320 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 1: off season covid The off season is different than the

930
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:04,319
Speaker 1: radio season. It's off. It's different than the training camp.

931
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:08,239
Speaker 1: Now we're getting into training camp. I believe our next

932
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 1: podcast will be with Bucky Brooks NFL Network. It's gonna

933
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 1: be a lot of football out of now, a lot

934
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,759
Speaker 1: of stuff in the present. The podcast will change, Dave,

935
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 1: because we're getting into this thing now. Yeah, whatever this

936
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 1: thing is gonna be. Um right, it still feels like

937
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:26,759
Speaker 1: there's a lot yet to be determined, but players are

938
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 1: in town, players have gotten tested for COVID um and

939
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 1: then we'll kind of see what that leads to. Um.

940
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 1: It's it's weird. It Uh, you probably can talk about this.

941
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 1: It's it's weird. So just a little behind the curtains.

942
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 1: Some of our staff has gone back to the stadium,

943
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 1: uh John and some other people are still working from home,

944
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 1: so we're still divided, and we're doing this half virtually,

945
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:58,359
Speaker 1: and usually by now we're much further into what our

946
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 1: schedule is gonna be and what practice is gonna be

947
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:03,399
Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff, and that's still yet

948
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:06,879
Speaker 1: to be determined. But I know as of now, we're

949
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 1: gonna have a football season, and we're gonna have a

950
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 1: training camp and we'll see what it is. I'm it's weird,

951
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 1: it's I'm anxious a little bit um, but I'm kind

952
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:22,080
Speaker 1: of excited this. Not excited, I'm interested to see what

953
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 1: what this is gonna be and how different it's gonna

954
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 1: be and how different it's gonna feel. Yeah, And I think, Dave,

955
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 1: you know, I get that. It's so hard to to

956
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,320
Speaker 1: me anyway, It's so hard to get your mind around

957
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 1: COVID and sports because so much about sports and everything

958
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:46,400
Speaker 1: you analyze you have to draw from past experiences, and

959
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 1: there's no past experience with this. So I kind of

960
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:53,799
Speaker 1: get how fans and observers and even the players who

961
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 1: haven't really seen up close what teams are doing to prepare.

962
00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:59,879
Speaker 1: I sort of get how there's a lot of skepticism,

963
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 1: then a lot of wow, this is never gonna come off.

964
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:07,280
Speaker 1: You know, we're privileged a little bit, especially you guys,

965
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 1: to be behind the curtain to see what teams are doing.

966
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 1: For some reason, I have a higher confidence that this

967
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:17,560
Speaker 1: thing is gonna work. I think it's gonna be weird.

968
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 1: I think there's gonna be they are going to be

969
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:24,279
Speaker 1: bubble points or whatever you call them, where they are concerns.

970
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 1: There's going to be I don't call him crisis, but

971
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:32,439
Speaker 1: there's gonna be moments to deal with. But I get

972
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 1: the idea that they're going to be able to pull

973
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 1: this off. They're gonna be able to have a season.

974
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:40,920
Speaker 1: It's going to be incredibly, as you said, fascinating to follow.

975
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:44,959
Speaker 1: But I have a feeling. I don't have a feeling

976
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 1: that we're ramping up for nothing. I have a pretty

977
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 1: strong feeling that no matter how it takes place, whoever

978
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:53,320
Speaker 1: is on the road with the team, whoever is doing it.

979
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 1: However many COVID reserve lists there are maybe you know,

980
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 1: you know me, Dave, not really the eternal optimists. But

981
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:06,360
Speaker 1: I just I don't get the feeling that this is

982
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 1: going to be a season cut short. I think they're

983
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 1: gonna figure out a way to make it work. And

984
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:13,960
Speaker 1: if you're gonna look back on and go, wow, what

985
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 1: a weird, fascinating season, sort of for me, I look

986
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:21,320
Speaker 1: back in the nine season and think, boy, I was

987
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:23,440
Speaker 1: lucky to be there. It's a season unlike any other.

988
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:26,440
Speaker 1: Because of the expansion process. You get the feeling that

989
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:29,719
Speaker 1: you're never going to forget the COVID season. Yeah, I

990
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 1: would agree with that. And right like you said, it's

991
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:37,320
Speaker 1: like even being around the building and and seeing some

992
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:41,840
Speaker 1: of the the protocols and processes that are in place,

993
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 1: it does give me confidence, you know, it does give you.

994
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 1: It sounds like they're trying to think of every angle

995
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:52,400
Speaker 1: on this and and I think a lot of like

996
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 1: the delay and stuff is they're trying to use every day,

997
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:58,360
Speaker 1: every minute, every hour to kind of figure out what

998
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 1: the white way to do things are well, and they

999
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:03,320
Speaker 1: have every day. That's the important thing to know to

1000
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 1: your day. You know, we're in a world where everybody

1001
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:09,280
Speaker 1: wants answers now because of Twitter, because of social media,

1002
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 1: and I've had to answer a lot of my ozone questions.

1003
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:16,959
Speaker 1: The text dozone mail bag of Hey, you know, stay

1004
00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 1: tuned on this one will tell you when we know.

1005
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:24,719
Speaker 1: And you know that's a lot of COVID because they

1006
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:26,960
Speaker 1: do have time to feel. It's not that they're not

1007
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:30,200
Speaker 1: trying to figure it out. They're trying to get the

1008
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 1: best and right answer. There's no intentional fit foot dragging.

1009
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:37,920
Speaker 1: But you've got time, and I fully anticipate you have

1010
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:39,880
Speaker 1: a better feel forth tonighty because you've been in the building.

1011
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 1: I fully anticipate some of the protocols they've got. Now

1012
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 1: when players get back in, they'll probably figure out something

1013
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 1: they want to do differently because they'll see something that

1014
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 1: doesn't work or that hey, whoa, we could do this

1015
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:57,759
Speaker 1: for you. Better be able. I'm sure you've seen this

1016
00:56:57,800 --> 00:56:59,880
Speaker 1: since you've been back in. You better be able to

1017
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,799
Speaker 1: adapt coming in at uh ten o'clock in the morning

1018
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 1: one day and something's different than it was the day before,

1019
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:08,399
Speaker 1: and that's okay right now because are trying to get

1020
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:10,320
Speaker 1: the best answer. And I think the big thing to

1021
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:13,880
Speaker 1: people are gonna have to remember is like the preseason

1022
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: is going to be a different animal than the regular season.

1023
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 1: Home games are different animals than than road games. And

1024
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 1: it's gonna be the situation where you know, the NFL

1025
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:26,480
Speaker 1: is so much about schedule and players being comfortable and

1026
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 1: coaches being comfortable with Okay, on Mondays, I do this

1027
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:32,920
Speaker 1: on Tuesday's under this and was it. And I think

1028
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 1: the team that adapts the best to change is going

1029
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 1: to do the best. And I've been around teams where

1030
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 1: the routine call from was this way our media time, Dave.

1031
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 1: And the last year, if a coffining was two thousand,

1032
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:52,640
Speaker 1: I showed up the exact same time to cover the

1033
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 1: team and left the exact same time six years later.

1034
00:57:56,680 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 1: A lot of coaches regimes they do the exact a thing, day, year, month, whatever.

1035
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 1: NFL players, because of the number of people that are

1036
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:11,400
Speaker 1: around NFL teams have to do that. I agree with

1037
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 1: you that will be the biggest thing that anybody associate

1038
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:17,160
Speaker 1: with the NFL has to adjust it. Yeah. And then

1039
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 1: also I think it's a matter of the team that

1040
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 1: manages COVID the best. It's like if everyone follows the directions,

1041
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 1: follows the protocols are supposed to do, whereas masks, you know,

1042
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 1: social distances, they they're responsible when they're not in the building.

1043
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 1: I think that's gonna go a long way and deciding

1044
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:39,040
Speaker 1: how successful you are this season. Yeah, the the Coach

1045
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 1: the Year trophy this year might have a little mask

1046
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 1: on it. How you handle the whole thing. Yeah. In

1047
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:52,800
Speaker 1: the strike years, for example, I consider Joe Gibson as

1048
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:54,720
Speaker 1: a Redskins fans as a Joe Gibs fanger, and if

1049
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 1: I considering the best coach NFL history, because he won

1050
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 1: three Super Bowls and three different quarterbacks. But it's not

1051
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:04,920
Speaker 1: a coincidence that they won in strike years because they

1052
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:12,160
Speaker 1: handled if you read about those teams, they handled the

1053
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:18,480
Speaker 1: difference things, They handled surprises, all the players say better

1054
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:21,400
Speaker 1: than anybody. That will certainly be a factor this year

1055
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:24,280
Speaker 1: won't be so much x As and those coaching. It

1056
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:26,280
Speaker 1: will be the coaches who can keep guys on the

1057
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:29,280
Speaker 1: same page, keep that you keep their hand on the rudder,

1058
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:31,400
Speaker 1: and keep the ship straight if you will so well.

1059
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 1: Obviously there's a lot it has been along those own podcasts.

1060
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 1: A because I could talk to Pete forever and be

1061
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 1: because the second topic with the COVID, there's so much

1062
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:43,600
Speaker 1: to cover. I know on all of our broadcast will

1063
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 1: be going in depth on this ad nauseum. But I

1064
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:49,960
Speaker 1: want to thank fans who have listened so far to

1065
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:53,400
Speaker 1: the first Ozone podcast. I think I'm happy with the

1066
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 1: way they've gone. I think we've had good guests, and

1067
00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:58,600
Speaker 1: I thank everybody so far. Looking forward to get into

1068
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 1: the regular season routine. We're not quite sure what the

1069
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:06,920
Speaker 1: training camp schedule with the Ozone podcast will entail. We

1070
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:10,160
Speaker 1: know Bucky Brooks will likely be next week. Moving forward,

1071
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 1: we're gonna try to get into this thing and make

1072
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:15,120
Speaker 1: it as routine as possible. Until we get into a

1073
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:17,680
Speaker 1: Regulas season routine, we'll keep you updated. I want to

1074
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:19,760
Speaker 1: thank Joe Fortunado for making me sound better and I

1075
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 1: actually am. I want to thank Dave. You can just

1076
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 1: hope we didn't stuck and we'll see you next week.