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Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Welcome to another episode of Legally Brunette. I

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Speaker 1: will be your host Emily Simpson. And I'm sorry I

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Speaker 1: forgot to say and and Shane, you forgot I was

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Speaker 1: in the right. I forgot you were here. Okay. So

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Speaker 1: we're going to do some updates on some cases that

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Speaker 1: we have spoken about previously. And one of my favorite

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Speaker 1: cases ever is the Karen Reid case, which we did.

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Speaker 1: We did a couple episodes on Karen Reid.

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Speaker 2: Because it did one big episode and we talked about

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Speaker 2: it in another time, right.

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Speaker 1: But I love talking about Karen Reid because there's just

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Speaker 1: so much to talk about. It's an unsolved mystery. I

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Speaker 1: don't think we'll ever know actually what happened that night.

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Speaker 2: But who do you think did it?

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Speaker 1: Well? I I think that possibly something happened inside that

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Speaker 1: house with the dog and the police officer.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, so you think it was not Karen and

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Speaker 2: you think it was a police officer.

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Speaker 1: I think something happened to him inside that house and

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Speaker 1: then there was a cover up. That's that's what I

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Speaker 1: take away from it. But Karen Reid is not out

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Speaker 1: of the new anymore. There's been some new things going

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Speaker 1: on with Michael Proctor. And if you will remember, Michael

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Speaker 1: Proctor is the lead investigator during the case.

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Speaker 2: At a conflict of interest or show.

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Speaker 1: Yes, he was the one that had the text messages

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Speaker 1: that were inappropriate, and so he was actually fired and

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Speaker 1: then he appealed his firing. But then now some new

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Speaker 1: evidence or some new things have come up, so more

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Speaker 1: cases involving Michael Proctor are under review. This was an

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Speaker 1: NBC Boston article. Recent court documents show the Norfolk County

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Speaker 1: District Attorney's office has examined nearly twenty cases involving former

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Speaker 1: Massachusetts State Police trooper Michael Proctor. I'm not surprised that

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Speaker 1: the number is high. Before we're done, it might even

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Speaker 1: go higher, said NBC ten Boston legal analyst Michael Coin.

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Speaker 1: See now that's the problem because now what happens is

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Speaker 1: these defense attorneys that defended their clients and now all

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Speaker 1: this evidence is coming forward that was inappropriate that has

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Speaker 1: to do with these cases. Does that give them, depending

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Speaker 1: on what they're finding, a mistrial or a reason to appeal?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well yeah, I don't know. That's a tough one

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Speaker 2: because where those defendants found guilty of their crimes, where

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Speaker 2: they found not guilty, they're not guilty. Ones aren't going

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Speaker 2: to like, well.

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Speaker 1: They're not going to say a word. They're gonna be

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Speaker 1: really quiet. Prosecutors were ordered to review a federal investigation

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Speaker 1: of the Read case and turn over any evidence beneficial

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Speaker 1: to other defendants whose cases involved the former state trooper.

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Speaker 1: The cases were identified as part of a document involving

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Speaker 1: Brian Walsh, who was charged with killing and dismembering his wife,

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Speaker 1: Anna Walsh. Proctor investigated that case as well. Anytime that

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Speaker 1: you can use some of these mistakes that he's made

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Speaker 1: to help put doubt in the minds of a juror,

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Speaker 1: that is precisely what they're supposed to do. This is

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Speaker 1: what the legal analyst said. So it's unclear what if

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Speaker 1: any information was given to the defendants, with a lot

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Speaker 1: of the details coming from Proctor's cell phone. Here's what

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Speaker 1: I don't understand about Proctor. So first of all, they

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Speaker 1: got the inappropriate text directly from his phone, right, they

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Speaker 1: did like a forensic analysis, but he had deleted a

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Speaker 1: lot of things. So now this deeper dive with all

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Speaker 1: this new evidence coming forward, is because they've I don't know, like,

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Speaker 1: I'm not a cell phone expert. Clearly.

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Speaker 2: No, you're just a legal podcast.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I'm just a lowly legal podcast person. But wouldn't

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Speaker 1: someone that was a police officer, detective investigator understand that

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Speaker 1: he was if he's deleting things off his phone, that

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Speaker 1: they can still find it in the cloud.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but my yes, my guess would be they delete

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Speaker 2: it so on its face value, it's not there. So

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Speaker 2: if someone were to look at their phone or something,

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Speaker 2: I don't think they deleted it thinking it's gone forever

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Speaker 2: and ever. But why why didn't just think about it

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Speaker 2: that far. It's sort of like wiping up blood. You

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Speaker 2: wipe it up. Yeah. Can you put the luminol or

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Speaker 2: whatever and find it? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I know. I like that word luminol.

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Speaker 2: I'll turn you on.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I like luminol.

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Speaker 2: So then, but people maybe clean it just on the

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Speaker 2: surface level, so someone will walk through they don't see it.

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Speaker 2: Maybe if someone were to look at his phone, they

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Speaker 2: wouldn't see.

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Speaker 1: So you're saying he hands over his phone they find Okay,

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Speaker 1: well there we go.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: Proctor had been fighting to get his job back until

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Speaker 1: last month, when Norfolk County Prosecutors admitted in a court

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Speaker 1: filing that his personal cell phone data contained images of

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Speaker 1: intimate body parts. I would like more details on that. Please.

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Speaker 2: Do you want the intimate body part?

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Speaker 1: I want to I would like to see the images.

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Speaker 1: I want to know what we're talking about about intimate

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Speaker 1: body parts?

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Speaker 2: Google intimate?

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Speaker 1: Are we talking about?

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Speaker 2: Are we talking about the images you see?

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Speaker 1: Is it genitalia? Is that what he has photos of?

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Speaker 2: Probably? What else is intimate?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I didn't know if it meant like

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Speaker 1: a close up of an ear? Is that an intimate

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Speaker 1: body part? No, now you're being silly, No one, No,

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Speaker 1: I meant I intimate. I know, I'm seriously. Does intimate

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Speaker 1: mean like it was like a close up of body parts?

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Speaker 1: Or does intimate mean? Okay, you're just staring.

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Speaker 2: This explains a lot emily you not knowing what an

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Speaker 2: intimate part is.

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Speaker 1: Keep going, okay. The union that represents state police troopers

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Speaker 1: declined to continue paying for his lawyer, and Proctor withdrew

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Speaker 1: his request to be reinstated to the department. All right,

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Speaker 1: So that's our update on Karen Reid. We'll continue to

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Speaker 1: follow that because I think there's so many more things

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Speaker 1: that are going to come out about Michael.

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Speaker 2: Proctor and do you think Michael Proctor had to do

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Speaker 2: with it or do you think he was just fumbling

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Speaker 2: the uh like the prosecution and investigation of it. No.

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Speaker 1: I think he's just inappropriate And I think that he

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Speaker 1: was sharing images probably with friends and stuff from all

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Speaker 1: these cases he's investigating.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so after the crime was committed.

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Speaker 1: Or during I don't know, while he's investigating. Because while

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Speaker 1: he was investigating Karen Reid, he was sending photos of

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Speaker 1: her in text talking. Remember he was like talking about her,

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Speaker 1: didn't you make comments about her? She's hot, but she

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Speaker 1: doesn't have an ass and like things like that.

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Speaker 2: Oh that was him that said that, Yes, Yes, that

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Speaker 2: was him.

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Speaker 1: So I'm saying we already know that he sends highly

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Speaker 1: inappropriate text messages unprofessional, right, But it wasn't just a

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Speaker 1: Karen Reid. It's now goes back to at least twenty

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Speaker 1: cases that he investigated. So now this is opening a

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Speaker 1: whole can of worms on all these cases. You think

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Speaker 1: these defense attorneys in those cases are chomping at the

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Speaker 1: bit wanting to get a hold.

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Speaker 2: Of Yeah, it's like what I've seen. I've seen situations

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Speaker 2: where a cop is found to be crop planning a

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Speaker 2: drug in a car and then arresting that person, right,

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Speaker 2: And then they go back and there's dozens that they

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Speaker 2: have to release because then they go look in the

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Speaker 2: same because now he has an mo right, it was

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Speaker 2: like bodycam footage the way he sneare snuck it in

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Speaker 2: and claimed it was in the car, and then they

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Speaker 2: can see that pattern. Now they go back and the

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Speaker 2: people were getting released like left and.

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Speaker 1: Right, right. So I'm saying this is the tip of

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Speaker 1: the iceberg because now all these cases, they're gonna want

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Speaker 1: they're going to want to know what it was that

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Speaker 1: he was saying, what's he's sending, who's he's sending it to,

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Speaker 1: what are the photos? So anyway, all right, let's move

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Speaker 1: on to the Delphi murders. If you remember, we also

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Speaker 1: did a podcast on the Delphi case, which was the

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Speaker 1: murder of the two young girls in Delphi, Indiana. I've

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Speaker 1: always told you guys, my opinion is that I believe

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Speaker 1: they have the wrong man that is currently been convicted.

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Speaker 2: You felt that the interrogation showed that he was a

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Speaker 2: pretty genuine, decent person that had nothing.

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Speaker 1: To do with the Well, that was my gut feeling,

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Speaker 1: and that was my takeaway when I watched the interrogations.

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Speaker 1: And then also I felt that that one little piece

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Speaker 1: of evidence. Remember they found that gunshot. It wasn't a shell,

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Speaker 1: it was the actual the case spent round, right, but

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Speaker 1: it had striations that like matched him in his house.

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Speaker 2: But that was it. That's old school. That's like, oh,

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Speaker 2: this hair follicle matches this hair. I'm saying, I supposed

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Speaker 2: a DNA where it's a black exactly.

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Speaker 1: There was no DNA that was matched to him.

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Speaker 2: Was this a CBS technician that happened to be taking

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Speaker 2: a walk on a bridge.

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Speaker 1: Yes, he's the guy that reached out and said, hey,

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Speaker 1: I was there that day. And then right, his name's

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Speaker 1: Richard Allen.

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Speaker 2: You know well you know it. You know his wife's

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Speaker 2: a little bit at fault because she made him call.

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Speaker 1: Yes, well, I'm sure she feels.

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Speaker 2: Like extremely guilty. This crime investigation's like you were there, honey,

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Speaker 2: you should call and tell them. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: So a judge release more than twelve hundred pages of

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Speaker 1: exhibits from del High murderer Richard Allen's case on Monday,

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Speaker 1: then sealed the exhibits, which signals that Allan's appeal is

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Speaker 1: about a month from being filed. Several news outlets published

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Speaker 1: the exhibits, which have since been blocked from public inspection.

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Speaker 1: The Journal and Courier downloaded the file from Fort Wayne's

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Speaker 1: Wayne five website on Tuesday and verified the filing of

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Speaker 1: two hundred and one pages of exhibits on Wednesday through

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Speaker 1: sealed court documents that detailed the number of pages. The

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Speaker 1: specific content, however, was no longer accessible to the public.

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Speaker 1: Among the exhibits are an affidavit from Todd Klik, a

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Speaker 1: former Rushville assistant police chief who investigated the possible involvement

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Speaker 1: in the killings of Odness in the eastern part of Indiana.

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Speaker 1: And do you remember we talked about this. This was

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Speaker 1: one of the things I actually pulled up that document.

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Speaker 1: Not this this is on appeal, But there's another document

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Speaker 1: that his defense attorney filed before he went to trial

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Speaker 1: that he wanted to get an evidence that there was

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Speaker 1: third party possible guilt with this satan satanic cult because

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Speaker 1: of the the very.

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Speaker 2: You called it. You called it someday, there was a

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Speaker 2: terminology for it where like they lay the sticks down

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Speaker 2: or they.

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Speaker 1: I just said satanic ritual.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, that's that's right.

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Speaker 1: But it was the crime scene. Remember, it was like

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Speaker 1: one of the bodies was found underneath the tree and

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Speaker 1: there was a marking above it, and then it had

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Speaker 1: sticks laid in a certain way on top. And then

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Speaker 1: the other girl they were found naked. The other girl

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Speaker 1: had branches laid on top of her and they were

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Speaker 1: symbols from this. And then remember the guards that were

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Speaker 1: guarding him were odinous and they had odin his patches

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Speaker 1: on them.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it was just that stuff was there before.

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Speaker 2: Now I think about it.

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Speaker 1: What the branch the branches they were laying on top

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Speaker 1: of the bodies.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I missed the memo on that one. Well, the

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Speaker 2: reason I say that is because in high school, my friend,

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Speaker 2: he's not a murderer. My friend, he would be at

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Speaker 2: church early. There was an early class, right, and he

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Speaker 2: would get dropped up early because his mom dropped him

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Speaker 2: off early. And he sat there and waited untill we

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Speaker 2: all got there. And he carved in the concrete no fate.

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Speaker 2: But that was because he was a Terminator fan and

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Speaker 2: that Terminator two came out, so he carved in no fate.

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Speaker 2: He thought he was like tough and stuff. Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 2: that month, soon after someone committed suicide on the sidewalk

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Speaker 2: nearby where it said no fate by coincidence. Not a

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Speaker 2: member of the church, not affiliate, just just unfortunately someone

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Speaker 2: that was committed suicide did right there, and everyone thought

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Speaker 2: that he carved in no fate and then killed himself.

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Speaker 2: Oh so, so I didn't know if the sticks were there,

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Speaker 2: But now you're telling me that on top of the body.

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Speaker 2: So my point is moot.

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Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, So thank you for that anecdote.

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Speaker 2: That's still a good story though.

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Speaker 1: The exhibits also included transcripts of Indiana State Police interviews

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Speaker 1: with Kathy Allen, who is Richard's wife. After Allan's arrest

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Speaker 1: on October twenty six of twenty twenty two, he was

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Speaker 1: ordered to be housed in the Westville Correctional Facility, where

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Speaker 1: at least two guards wore patches on their uniforms that

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Speaker 1: tied them to Odinism. According to these exhibits, Max Baker,

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Speaker 1: who worked for Allan's defense team, filed an affidavit stating

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Speaker 1: that he witnessed the oldness patches on prison guards uniforms,

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Speaker 1: as well as one patch that read I hate people.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like I could wear a patch

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Speaker 1: that says that too. I don't have to be an oldist.

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Speaker 2: You don't have to wear badge. People know it.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's true. I don't need a patch. My face

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Speaker 1: says it all.

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Speaker 2: Your voice says it all okay.

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Speaker 1: Baker also reviewed video images recorded by prison guards that

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Speaker 1: showed Allan, who was in Westville Prison for safekeeping, had

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Speaker 1: been badly beaten and had two black eyes. The exhibits

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Speaker 1: filed on Monday include documents detailing theories of Oldness and

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Speaker 1: Delphi and Logan Sport, suggesting that they might be involved

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Speaker 1: along with the Oldness on the east side of the state.

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Speaker 1: It included questions and depositions about police investigation of and

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Speaker 1: dismissal of the theory that the branches and limbs, as

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Speaker 1: well as the positioning of the bodies and the f

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Speaker 1: that was painted on a tree with Libby's blood all

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Speaker 1: tied back to Odinism. Now, if you remember when we

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Speaker 1: talked about this earlier, he had tried. The defense attorney

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Speaker 1: tried previously back in September of twenty twenty three to

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Speaker 1: present that lengthy memorandum about how they were killed in

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Speaker 1: an out and it might have been tied to human sacrifices, which.

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Speaker 2: Then would not have connected the CBS technician right right,

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Speaker 2: because he was in that stuff where he could argue that,

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Speaker 2: you know, he has no signs of that anywhere.

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Speaker 1: But the judge denied it and would not allow any

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Speaker 1: of that evidence.

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Speaker 2: Probably because the judge is part of the Satanic.

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Speaker 1: Group that I mean could be allegedly.

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Speaker 2: Judges could be part of it.

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Speaker 1: Allegedly, Yeah, okay, but no, no, they could be. Well,

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Speaker 1: anyone could be.

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Speaker 2: That doesn't need to be. That's why you don't need

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Speaker 2: see alleged.

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Speaker 1: Okay, back to Richard Allen. So this is another way

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Speaker 1: to try to get that information.

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Speaker 2: And this is a genuine question. What's another explanation for

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Speaker 2: those sticks someone came up after? Like if it wasn't

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Speaker 2: the if the CBS, well, I don't know, how could

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Speaker 2: those sticks be there other than the murder putting it there?

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Speaker 1: It had that's the only way, other than what some

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Speaker 1: girl scouts came along later and boy scouts and put

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Speaker 1: them on the bodies.

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Speaker 2: So that means if they're able to introduce this evidence

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Speaker 2: and then they're able to point out to the defendant

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Speaker 2: that he is not affiliated anyway, there's no signs, there's

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Speaker 2: no history, there's no social media. There's nothing that ties

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Speaker 2: this guy to these sticks or any sticks, then he

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Speaker 2: should there should be some doubt.

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Speaker 1: Right. Well, that's why if the judge allows this to

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Speaker 1: come in on appeal, it raises a reasonable doubt, right,

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Speaker 1: exactly right.

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Speaker 2: I was just saying it.

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Speaker 1: And you know, also I was reading with this case,

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Speaker 1: and this is another reason I said this before. Before

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Speaker 1: I even read this, I never felt like this is

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Speaker 1: something that one man could have done, because you're talking

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Speaker 1: about two girls that both of them had their clothes rooms,

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Speaker 1: he went across the water, he had he readdressed them.

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Speaker 1: He had to.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but I disagree. I'm not saying who did it,

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Speaker 2: but one person could do it.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I did exercise control over two young girls and put

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Speaker 2: fear in them and get them to comply.

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Speaker 1: I just don't see how he could have done it

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Speaker 1: in the timeframe and with it being a public I

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Speaker 1: don't know it just.

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Speaker 2: I see your point. I'm just saying it can't happen.

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Speaker 1: I mean it could happen, I just don't see it happening.

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Speaker 1: And they did, the police investigating it did think it

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Speaker 1: was Originally when they were first investigating, they felt that

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Speaker 1: it was a two man or more.

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Speaker 2: Okay, it could have been too.

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Speaker 1: Let's move on to the Murdall murders. This was another

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite podcasts because I this family was

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Speaker 1: well Alec Alec Murdall was just so corrupt that allegedly, no,

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Speaker 1: he was convicted. Yeah inside this. Okay, so this is interesting.

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Speaker 1: So there is a scathing letter that Alex Murdoch's and

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Speaker 1: people told me it's Alec even though there's an ex

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Speaker 1: it's Alec, and it's Murdoch, even though well that's how

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Speaker 1: they pronounce it, and.

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Speaker 2: That I give him some respect here.

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Speaker 1: No, I'm trying to pronounce his name correctly because that's

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Speaker 1: that's what I heard, that he puts the murder in Murdach. Yes.

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Speaker 1: So a housekeeper came forward and wrote, this was in people.

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Speaker 1: So Blanca Rbiate Simpson. Oh my gosh, her nat last

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Speaker 1: name Simpson Shane.

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Speaker 2: Wait is she your cousin, Donny?

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Speaker 1: Is she?

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Speaker 2: Uh? This isn't the housekeeper that he killed.

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Speaker 1: No, this is another housekeeper.

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Speaker 2: Did he kill her?

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Speaker 1: Not yet? So Blanca was a US Navy veteran and

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Speaker 1: former corrections officer who started working as one of the

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Speaker 1: family's housekeepers in two thousand and seven and she wrote

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Speaker 1: a new tell all called Within the House of Murder

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Speaker 1: amid a unique friendship Blanca and Maggie. That is a

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Speaker 1: long title and an exclusive excerpt from the book, Simpson writes, Alex,

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Speaker 1: have you adapted to your new life? Is your bed

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Speaker 1: made to your satisfaction? Are the sheets soft against your

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Speaker 1: sensitive skin? Do they make your bed with freshly pressed

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Speaker 1: sheet and are tight enough to bounce a quarter off?

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Speaker 1: In another part of the letter, she writes, I often

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Speaker 1: ask myself, at what point did greed, ambition, and lack

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Speaker 1: of empathy overpower you? You had love, family, friendship, respect

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Speaker 1: and privilege. You had it all, and you decimated everything

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Speaker 1: when you decided nobody deserved to be better off than

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Speaker 1: your family. Saying that she feels betrayed by Alec, Simpson writes,

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Speaker 1: what happened to you? What happened to the man who

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Speaker 1: was always entertaining by cracking jokes? What happened to the

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Speaker 1: man who nurtured and cared for his family? At what

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Speaker 1: point did you become so unhappy in your life that

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Speaker 1: you decided to kill your wife and son? She also

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Speaker 1: opens up a host of unanswered questions when she writes

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Speaker 1: about seeing an unnamed woman at the family's estate known

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Speaker 1: as Mozelle after the funerals.

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Speaker 2: She was unnamed.

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Speaker 1: Her name's Blanca. She's writing about. She's writing about after

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Speaker 1: the funeral, she saw some woman. She's saying he's having

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Speaker 1: an affair.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I know you said unnamed woman. Well she didn't know.

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Speaker 1: She doesn't know her name. Okay, she just saw a

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Speaker 1: random woman. She's basically coming forward after she worked for

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Speaker 1: them in two thousand and seven. Now she can profit

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Speaker 1: from a book. So she's coming forward and she's writing

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Speaker 1: a book, a tell all about all the things that

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Speaker 1: she saw.

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Speaker 2: I'm unknown, yes, yeah, because she does have a name.

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Speaker 1: Well, she doesn't know her name.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great.

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Speaker 1: Okay. She finishes the letter by writing, in part I

375
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Speaker 1: may never find the answers that bring me full closure,

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Speaker 1: but for now I am releasing the emotional burden of

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Speaker 1: your betrayal and focusing on my own healing, praying for you, Blanca.

378
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Speaker 1: So I guess she's writing a tell all book. And

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Speaker 1: then she includes a letter to Alec Murdoch.

380
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Speaker 2: And so that's where I have a I mean, just

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Speaker 2: for conversation purposes. I have a problem with that because

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Speaker 2: It's like if you have if you had a problem

383
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Speaker 2: with him and you saw him as dangerous. Assuming that's

384
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Speaker 2: the case, then why are you telling us now after

385
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Speaker 2: the murder?

386
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Speaker 1: Short because she worked for them and she made money

387
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Speaker 1: she kept from mouse shut and now that it's now,

388
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Speaker 1: you can make money from a book. All right, all right,

389
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Speaker 1: let's move on to Susan Lawrence. If you remember the

390
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Speaker 1: name Susan Lawrence, he's the perfect neighbor. He is the

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Speaker 1: perfect neighbor.

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Speaker 2: Good job hat a lady.

393
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Speaker 1: You hate that lady. Everybody hates that lady.

394
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Speaker 2: I don't know who.

395
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Speaker 1: Well, I felt like the catfish mom was probably the

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Speaker 1: most hated woman in the world at that short in time.

397
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Speaker 1: But then Susan Lawrence came along, and now every she

398
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Speaker 1: took the title. Yes she did. So here we are

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Speaker 1: with Susan Lawrence again. A jury found Susan Lorenz guilty

400
00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:43,399
Speaker 1: of manslaughter after she shot a j Owens her locked

401
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,560
Speaker 1: front door, killing her. This is back in June of

402
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Speaker 1: twenty twenty three. Lorenz was sentenced to twenty five years

403
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Speaker 1: in prison and has maintained that she was the victim

404
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,320
Speaker 1: of harassment from Owen's and Owen's.

405
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Speaker 2: Children of course.

406
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Speaker 1: Owen's mother, Pamela Dias, filed a wrongful death suit against

407
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Speaker 1: both Lorenz and the owner of the quedplex quadplex, sorry,

408
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Speaker 1: the owner of the quadplex.

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Speaker 2: Would you call it a quadplex? It's not a quadplex.

410
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:08,920
Speaker 1: It's a quad plex.

411
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Speaker 2: Sounds like it's easily he's suffering from quid plex.

412
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Speaker 1: It's a quad plex where she lived. The suit says

413
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Speaker 1: that Charles Gabbard, who was the one who owned the property,

414
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,679
Speaker 1: should have known that Lorenz had a propensity for gross

415
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,760
Speaker 1: negligence and or intentional harm. You know, we talked about that.

416
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Speaker 2: It's a little bit of a stretch, but I totally

417
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Speaker 2: think there's something there.

418
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Speaker 1: There might be There might be that he was on

419
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Speaker 1: notice of the problems than that.

420
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Speaker 2: She was maybe a little that's not your property, that's

421
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,679
Speaker 2: common area, or did he tell her put a no

422
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:45,119
Speaker 2: trespassing sign on there? Therefore he's supporting her and kicking

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Speaker 2: the kids out, you know, stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: So I know the headlines with this update a lot.

425
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Speaker 1: It says like Susan Lorenz writes letter, you know, and

426
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Speaker 1: but what people don't understand is she's writing the letter

427
00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:58,639
Speaker 1: because she's writing the letter as a response to the

428
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Speaker 1: wrongful death suit.

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Speaker 2: So this is her actual I don't think she's supposed

430
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Speaker 2: to writing a nasty letter.

431
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Speaker 1: She's not just writing a letter, she's actually this is

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Speaker 1: her response to the wrongful destiny. And I from my takeaway,

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Speaker 1: I don't think she's represented by counsel. It seems like, well,

434
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,000
Speaker 1: she's an attorney because she's a doctor, right, so now

435
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,879
Speaker 1: she's representing herself. It seems like so. In a handwritten

436
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Speaker 1: letter filed with the court, Lorenz responds to allegations in

437
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Speaker 1: the lawsuit and reiterates her accusations that Owen's and her

438
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Speaker 1: children were the aggressors. Lorenz claims that Owen's children would

439
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,760
Speaker 1: come over to my apartment and do ding dong ditch.

440
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Speaker 2: You know, how how can that justify murder? Obviously it

441
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Speaker 2: never just like it's like I know I killed her,

442
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,120
Speaker 2: but these kids were reading my doorbell, they.

443
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:44,879
Speaker 1: Were loud, and I know they were playing for.

444
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:49,359
Speaker 2: Playing frisbee, Lorenz says in the letter, kiss off.

445
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,879
Speaker 1: She pisses everyone off. Lorenz says in the letter that

446
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:57,240
Speaker 1: she wants to quote counter suit for slander, libel, and

447
00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:01,120
Speaker 1: defamation of character for damages that exceed fifty thou dollars

448
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:02,720
Speaker 1: against Owen's mother.

449
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:04,600
Speaker 2: The body cams didn't defame her.

450
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:10,200
Speaker 1: Character, right, so she wants to counter sue against Owen's mother,

451
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:15,480
Speaker 1: the minor children, and the property owner. Lorenz's letter says

452
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,560
Speaker 1: that the property owner failed to secure the property correctly

453
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,640
Speaker 1: and allowed the victim and her children to harass her.

454
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:25,920
Speaker 1: Lorenz closes the letter by writing, quote completion of fact

455
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:27,760
Speaker 1: and expert discovery to follow.

456
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,639
Speaker 2: So you know what, my advice to the landlord is

457
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,399
Speaker 2: a better background check when you get some tenants.

458
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:35,879
Speaker 1: I don't know that what what would show up? She

459
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 1: probably had no prior.

460
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:41,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what. You call the prior landlord where

461
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 2: she lived and say what was she a problem? And

462
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,840
Speaker 2: they'd be like hell, yeah, you're saying background check.

463
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,880
Speaker 1: Don't just like pull up a like a criminal background check.

464
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 1: You're saying, call an act act.

465
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,959
Speaker 2: Yes, what he personality is like absolutely yeah. And then

466
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:58,640
Speaker 2: if you're like, all this lady like doesn't have a job,

467
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:00,880
Speaker 2: isn't doing anything, and she has a I mean that's

468
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 2: a reason though.

469
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 1: Look you shouldn't have a shotgun. She had a handgun.

470
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,119
Speaker 2: Well, it's no better.

471
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 1: Court records do not list any attorney for Lorenz in

472
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,159
Speaker 1: the civil case. No hearing dates have been set, but

473
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,359
Speaker 1: that was what she was writing, was her response to

474
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:13,399
Speaker 1: the wrongful death suit.

475
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:14,879
Speaker 2: Because I did see the headline and it made it

476
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 2: seem like it did. She just outright wrote a letter,

477
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,400
Speaker 2: right and had the goal to like send this out

478
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,200
Speaker 2: to the families and stuff like that, right.

479
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,360
Speaker 1: Which I mean, what she wrote is ridiculous, but she

480
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 1: did do it. And in response to the wrongful death

481
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 1: suit that's they filed again.

482
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 2: She should respond.

483
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,560
Speaker 1: But here's my question though, I mean, filing a wrongful

484
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,440
Speaker 1: death suit against her, what what are you going to?

485
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:39,440
Speaker 1: She's in prison for twenty five years and the woman

486
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 1: doesn't have any assets, so I don't know.

487
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,360
Speaker 2: Maybe she has U renderous insurance?

488
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 1: Does insurance cover look up?

489
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:48,879
Speaker 2: All right?

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00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,159
Speaker 1: Thanks guys for listening to our update episode. As always,

491
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,160
Speaker 1: we appreciate it, and you can find us on our

492
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 1: own feed, so make sure you follow us there and

493
00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 1: make sure you leave a review. So thanks so much

494
00:22:58,800 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 1: for listening.

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00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 2: Thank you people,