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Speaker 1: You're listening to Facing Evil, a production of iHeartRadio and

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Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast

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Speaker 1: are solely those of the individuals participating in the show

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Speaker 1: and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV.

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Speaker 1: This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable

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Speaker 1: for everyone. Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 2: Hello, everyone, welcome back to Facing Evil. I'm Rasha Pacuerero and.

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Speaker 3: I'm Evet Genteeley. And this week we are talking about

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Speaker 3: the death of Skyler Nice, a teenager who was murdered

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Speaker 3: by the closest people to her, her two best friends.

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Speaker 2: Yes, her two teenage best friends. And it's absolutely heartbreaking

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Speaker 2: and I'm sure everyone is wondering, how could this happen?

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Speaker 3: Why did this happen? That is the question that we're

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Speaker 3: always asking why. But today we are so happy to

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Speaker 3: welcome back our friend em William Phelps, investigative journalists and

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Speaker 3: host of the podcast Paper Ghost and Crossing the Line.

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Speaker 2: Yes, we like to call him Matthew, even though most

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Speaker 2: other people call him Phelps, and we're really looking forward

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Speaker 2: to talking to him today. But first our producer Trevor

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Speaker 2: is going to walk us through today's case. Ten years ago,

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Speaker 2: Skyler Nice came to this spot and never returned. Now

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Speaker 2: a decade later, her memory lives on and those who

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Speaker 2: knew her best.

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Speaker 1: We never want anyone to go through what we went through.

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Speaker 1: It's the worst hell I've ever ever been through, no.

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Speaker 4: Matter what she says now. But she was young and

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Speaker 4: she didn't know better. I'm sorry. Five and ten year

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Speaker 4: olds know not to commit murder.

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Speaker 1: Skyler Nice was a sixteen year old girl from Star City,

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Speaker 1: West Virginia, who was stabbed to death by her two

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Speaker 1: closest friends and left to die in a remote area

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Speaker 1: one state away. Skyler was described by most as a

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Speaker 1: good girl with nice friends and two loving parents in

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Speaker 1: a pleasant home in suburban West Virginia. She was just

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Speaker 1: eight years old when she met her best friend, a

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Speaker 1: girl named Sheila Eddie. Eddie had a troubled relationship with

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Speaker 1: her own parents, but grew to be very close with

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Speaker 1: Skyler's parents, who described her as a second daughter. Their

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Speaker 1: freshman year, Sheila transferred to Skyler's high school, and they

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Speaker 1: both started hanging out with a third girl, Rachel's Chouf.

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Speaker 1: The trio were inseparable, but when Skyler and Rachel started

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Speaker 1: getting close, Sheila got jealous. Skyler and Sheila began having

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Speaker 1: public arguments on Twitter, and in a tweet in August

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Speaker 1: of twenty eleven, Skyler alluded to having dirt on both friends.

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Speaker 1: She may have been alluding to a recent night when

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Speaker 1: she allegedly witnessed Sheila and Rachel making out. After raiding

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Speaker 1: Rachel's mom's liquor case. Sheila and Rachel now both turned

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Speaker 1: on their former friend and tried to smear her reputation

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Speaker 1: at school. They told classmates she was annoying and clinging,

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Speaker 1: but then they went a step further planning her murder.

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Speaker 1: When some classmates overheard them talking in school, they were

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Speaker 1: sent to the principal's office, but then sent back to class. Then,

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Speaker 1: on July fifth, twenty twelve, Rachel and Sheila invited Skuyler

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Speaker 1: out for a late night drive while her parents slept.

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Speaker 1: Skyler snuck out and the three drove to a remote

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Speaker 1: area just over the West Virginia border into Pennsylvania. There,

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Speaker 1: Rachel and Sheila brandished knives and stabbed Skyler nice until

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Speaker 1: she was no longer moving. They then dragged her body

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Speaker 1: to a nearby creek and hid it under some sticks.

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Speaker 1: Rocks and dirt. Skuyler's parents were alarmed about her disappearance,

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Speaker 1: but Sheila told them they'd drop Skyler off a few

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Speaker 1: blocks down the street. After the late night hangout, months passed,

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Speaker 1: during which Sheila spent a great deal of time with

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Speaker 1: the Nice family, crying over Skuyler's disappearance, and even hanging

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Speaker 1: up missing persons posters around the neighborhood. At school, Sheila

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Speaker 1: and Rachel grew reserved and only hung out with each other.

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Speaker 1: When they were questioned by police, Rachel acted nervous, but Sheila,

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Speaker 1: on the other hand, acted quote perky, one officer said, quote,

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Speaker 1: She'd look you in the eye and speak matter of faculty. Finally,

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Speaker 1: in January of twenty thirteen, Rachel's chauf had a mental breakdown.

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Speaker 1: After going to a psychiatric ward, she confessed to the crime.

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Speaker 1: She then led the police to Skuyler's body. Sheila Eddie

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Speaker 1: was at Skuyler's parents when the discovery was made, and

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Speaker 1: she cried along with Skuyler's family. When the police asked

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Speaker 1: Rachel why they killed their friend, she simply replied, we

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Speaker 1: just didn't like her. The two girls were arrested. Sheila

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Speaker 1: was convicted of first degree murder and sentenced to life

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Speaker 1: in prison. Rachel was sentenced to thirty fe years in prison.

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Speaker 1: And so what happened to Skyler Nice? How did a

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Speaker 1: friendship between teenage girls turn into a bloody murder? And

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Speaker 1: how does this story reveal a troubling mental health crisis

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Speaker 1: for teenagers which often leads to violence.

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Speaker 3: A few months ago, we talked about the case of

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Speaker 3: Michelle McNeil with the one and only m William Phelps,

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Speaker 3: who is the true crime author and host of the

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Speaker 3: podcast Paper Ghosts and Crossing the Line. We are back

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Speaker 3: with we like to call him Matthew is in the house.

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Speaker 3: We are so excited to have you back on facing

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Speaker 3: evil and you know today we're talking about Skylar Nice,

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Speaker 3: so we'll get into that in a little bit. But Matthew,

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Speaker 3: tell us, you know what's been going on, what's coming

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Speaker 3: up next for you. I know we were just talking about,

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Speaker 3: you know, the world that we live in and all

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Speaker 3: the crazy things that are happening. That really takes a

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Speaker 3: toll on us. But you know, you're such a deep, sensitive,

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Speaker 3: wise human being and I know you always push forward.

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Speaker 3: So what's new with you? Tell us what's new?

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Speaker 5: I'm working on season four of Paper Ghosts, my limited

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Speaker 5: series podcast, and I'm just getting ready to head out

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Speaker 5: to the Ozarks. There's a case out there of a

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Speaker 5: young girl who went missing in the late eighties and

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Speaker 5: she was found some time later, and I'm looking at

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Speaker 5: a couple of other cases that are similar to it

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Speaker 5: that could be connected to hers. And there's cause at

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Speaker 5: the time, late eighties, early nineties, that area of the country,

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Speaker 5: the Midwest, if you will, there was a rash of

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Speaker 5: you know, young teen girls going missing and some of

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Speaker 5: them found, some not found. So this case is really interesting.

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Speaker 5: I have a suspect that I'm really focused on that

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Speaker 5: hasn't been named, and no one knows. Yeah, we'll see

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Speaker 5: where it leads. You know. It's always interesting when I

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Speaker 5: go out there and spend a couple of weeks and

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Speaker 5: start knocking on doors and talking to people. So I'm

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Speaker 5: looking forward to that. I have a few other podcasts

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Speaker 5: that I'm in the process of developing and producing and

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Speaker 5: things like that that are similar. You know, one of

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Speaker 5: them is very different, but mostly they're similar to what

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Speaker 5: I do, which is investigative journalism.

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Speaker 2: It's funny since we last interviewed you, Matthew, I have

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Speaker 2: to tell you, like, you're one of our very first interviews,

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Speaker 2: and we've interviewed you know, several people since, and it

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Speaker 2: makes me think, especially like how you got into the

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Speaker 2: true crime genre and how you're still like moving your

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Speaker 2: way through it, like this has been a calling, I

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Speaker 2: think for all of us, because we just want to

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Speaker 2: see the light in the darkness in this world. And

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Speaker 2: I know that's exactly what you do. And the more

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Speaker 2: and more that we're in this I'm like, oh, we're

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Speaker 2: supposed to be here, and I just feel like you

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Speaker 2: do that every single day. And I just have to

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Speaker 2: say it's very very beautiful and you're an amazing example

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Speaker 2: of what one person can do.

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Speaker 5: Well, thank you very much. I mean, I appreciate that.

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Speaker 5: I'm humbled by that. I was recently watching something and

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Speaker 5: it's a metaphor really for what you just said. So

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Speaker 5: when the sun goes down, it doesn't get dark, the

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Speaker 5: sky doesn't get dark. What it is, according to physicists

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Speaker 5: and scientists is the light from the stars we see

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Speaker 5: hasn't reached us yet. That's why they look dim. It

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Speaker 5: hasn't reached us yet, So it doesn't light up the earth.

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Speaker 5: When the sun goes around us.

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Speaker 2: I love that, you know.

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Speaker 5: And then when the sun comes out, we can't see

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Speaker 5: we can't see any of them. So that little tiny

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Speaker 5: bit of light heading towards the earth to shine, I

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Speaker 5: look for that little tiny bit of light, you know,

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Speaker 5: and see where I can. I can just get in there.

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Speaker 2: And that's why we love you.

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Speaker 6: Amen to that.

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Speaker 3: It's just so interesting how you you know, like Russia said,

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Speaker 3: we have interviewed so many different people, but there's just

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Speaker 3: certain people when you know you're of like mind and

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Speaker 3: like spirit, and we've felt that way with you from

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Speaker 3: the get because this is a you know, as we know,

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Speaker 3: this is a hard industry, you know, to be in

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Speaker 3: to talk about.

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Speaker 2: This, it's heavy, too heavy, shiite.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, But like you know, like I said before, if

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Speaker 3: we can just open you know, one person's mind right,

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Speaker 3: or help someone heal and move upward and onward, or

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Speaker 3: solve a case, you know, like you.

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Speaker 6: You know, with bringing justice.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's these these things are so important, so

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Speaker 3: important in this world.

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Speaker 6: You know.

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Speaker 5: Bringing answers to families is really rewarding. That that really

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Speaker 5: keeps me going when I get with a family and

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Speaker 5: I say, look, I've spent a couple of years here

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Speaker 5: on this and this is what happened. This is what

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Speaker 5: you're never going to hear because law enforcement doesn't have

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Speaker 5: the resources, they don't have the budget.

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Speaker 2: So here you go, like, please do something with this.

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Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, right now, I mean they can know that

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Speaker 5: at least they have some information about what happened. Yeah, right,

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Speaker 5: there's a why. And actually I was talking to a

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Speaker 5: prosecutor interviewing a prosecutor the other day and he was saying, look,

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Speaker 5: you know, I'm happy to talk with you because you know,

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Speaker 5: no one else is going to do anything with this,

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Speaker 5: so you know, I'm very happy to give you what

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Speaker 5: you need to find out what you can, you know,

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Speaker 5: And that's that's pretty gratifying for me after a long

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Speaker 5: career of doing this, you know that the trust Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 5: there's a lot of bullshit podcasts true crime, you know,

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Speaker 5: makeup and TikTok and all of this out there.

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Speaker 2: So right, we're all of us are trying our best

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Speaker 2: to do ethical true crime. Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: To get back to the case that we're talking about today,

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Speaker 2: like you mentioned, you know, finding out the why. So

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Speaker 2: let's talk about the case of Skyler Niece. This is

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Speaker 2: not unsolved. We do know who did this? But what

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Speaker 2: were your first impressions about this case, about this young

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Speaker 2: girl Skyler.

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Speaker 5: I've written many books about teens and murder, teens who kill,

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Speaker 5: that sort of thing, so I'm very familiar with the

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Speaker 5: psychology and what's going on. Right. So, all of these cases,

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Speaker 5: this one especially, they're devastating. Right. These are people who

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Speaker 5: haven't lived a life yet.

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Speaker 2: Right, their brain's not even fully developed.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: What struck me was a touching scene that I read

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Speaker 5: about the dad and her and a tea party. That

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Speaker 5: was very touching.

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Speaker 4: King and the.

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Speaker 5: Punchline is that you know he he he asks her,

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Speaker 5: you can't reach the water faucet. Where you getting the

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Speaker 5: water from that? You've been that I've been drinking And

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Speaker 5: she said, oh, the toilet.

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Speaker 6: That's right.

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Speaker 5: That really shows you know, love, you know, the love

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Speaker 5: between between them all. But the other thing that stands

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Speaker 5: out to me but doesn't surprise me, is in all

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Speaker 5: of these cases, you have a leader and a follower,

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Speaker 5: and very very rarely that will a team kill by

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Speaker 5: his or herself. Right. They always there's always someone else connected.

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Speaker 5: There's always someone else involved. Many times there's more than

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Speaker 5: one involved. Yeah, Right, this case also struck me as

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Speaker 5: the I will say. I mean, I can't diagnose anybody.

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Speaker 5: I'm not a psychologist, but one of these girls is

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Speaker 5: bona fide so show path the other isn't. That's that's

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Speaker 5: clear to me here, you know. And the behavior after

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Speaker 5: the murder right.

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Speaker 2: With their family.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this case, right, it's so baffling when you think

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Speaker 3: about it, because you think about teenage girls and you

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Speaker 3: know they should just be having fun going to a prom,

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Speaker 3: you know, living their lives, not this heavy, heavy duty

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Speaker 3: jealousy and anger.

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Speaker 6: But you see it so much.

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Speaker 3: It's like I think about the cases that you know,

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Speaker 3: we've worked on in the past with Conrad Roy, that

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Speaker 3: particular case where it's Michelle Carter, you know, and even

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Speaker 3: the Shonda Shaer case. You know, it's a leader and

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Speaker 3: a follower and someone gets incredibly upset and then get

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Speaker 3: someone else to join and does these horrible things. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it turns into a paradox of violence.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 3: The mental issues that these children have gone through that

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Speaker 3: have led to this moment that has a lot to

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Speaker 3: do with it, don't you think.

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Speaker 6: Absolutely.

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Speaker 5: Let me ask you both a question, Yeah, how do

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Speaker 5: you feel social media played in this case? Particularly huge?

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Speaker 6: Yes?

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Speaker 2: It's huge, and I have to say full, full, full disclosure.

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Speaker 2: I have been on social media since my Space, and

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Speaker 2: for me, you know, it's always been something that's very

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Speaker 2: prominent in my life. But I joined as an adult.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm forty four years old, and I think

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Speaker 2: I started. I was on my Space whenever it started,

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Speaker 2: and I was already in my late twenties. I was

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Speaker 2: not a teenager. I cannot even imagine what these girls

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Speaker 2: were going through. And we know that, you know, Twitter

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Speaker 2: at the time had a lot to do with it.

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Speaker 2: And now Twitter now, for me, of course, in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty three, is not my favorite place. It makes me

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Speaker 2: scared for my daughter, who's eleven. Yeah, yeah, right, So

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Speaker 2: we must all think that social media has a lot

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Speaker 2: to do with it, right.

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Speaker 5: Particularly here I'm looking at Sheila Eddie yep, and how

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Speaker 5: she says I feel great right now, Skyler answers, this

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Speaker 5: is the best night ever, right, and you know she's

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Speaker 5: about to be murdered.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 5: Let me just back up. They're talking during the day

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Speaker 5: on social media. Other people are piping in, amping up

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Speaker 5: the conversation, right, so there's all these influences coming in

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Speaker 5: that are just invisible, right, invisible influences, right, yeah, kind

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Speaker 5: of stoking the fire if you will, yeah, yeah, And

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Speaker 5: she says at one point, it really, this is Skyler.

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Speaker 5: It really doesn't take much to piss me off.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 5: She talks about how stress will be the death of her,

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Speaker 5: about being bored, and I looked at that and I thought,

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Speaker 5: it's the classic confluence of peer pressure, right, the symptoms

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Speaker 5: of peer pressure. An environment for someone so young, a

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Speaker 5: mind so young, kind of in a social pressure cooker,

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Speaker 5: keeping up with her friends, trying to fit in, trying

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Speaker 5: to be popular, trying not to be bullied. And then

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Speaker 5: on July fifth, twenty twelve, Shila and Rachel invite Skyler

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Speaker 5: to go out. And what struck me here is this.

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Speaker 5: They pack knives, paper towels, bleach things to clean up

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Speaker 5: with and to shovel.

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Speaker 2: They meditated.

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Speaker 5: This is not an impulsive decision. Now, I remember I

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Speaker 5: did the slender Man case and it involved same age kids,

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Speaker 5: three kids, same age, three girls, and one was a follower,

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Speaker 5: one was a leader. You know, they did the same thing.

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Speaker 5: They packed a knife, they went out into the woods,

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Speaker 5: same thing. I don't know that this sort of thing

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Speaker 5: happened in my.

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Speaker 6: Day mine either, Matthew.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think social media plays a big part

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Speaker 3: in it, and I think television as well. You know,

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Speaker 3: I think, how do they know to go and get

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Speaker 3: bleach and do this and do that?

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 3: I just think that we're bombarded with with all of

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Speaker 3: this evil, like twenty four to seven, that it's available

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Speaker 3: to these young minds and unless the parents, you know,

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Speaker 3: and obviously a parent can't monitor everything.

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Speaker 2: Now, you can't keep the kids in a bubble.

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Speaker 3: But when it comes to social media, like I don't

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Speaker 3: have children, but I can tell you this now, Like

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Speaker 3: my niece Lee Lani, it's like she's like, I want Instagram.

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Speaker 3: I'm not a mother. I'm not a mother, but I'm like, no,

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Speaker 3: definitely not no TikTok, no Instagram, not till you're one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's great because with that stuff, the more you

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Speaker 5: look at, the more you get. So it has to

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Speaker 5: have an effect on the mind of someone so young.

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Speaker 5: But the question, I think, if we're facing evil, the

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Speaker 5: question becomes cannot push a kid over the edge right

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Speaker 5: and to commit some sort of violent act. And the

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Speaker 5: big question in this case is what you started with me?

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Speaker 5: Is the why?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Why?

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Speaker 6: Why?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, there's just a couple of things also that stood

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Speaker 5: out to me when I went through the case, and

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Speaker 5: that was the murder itself. How you know, of course

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Speaker 5: they tackled her, started stabbing her, they did all of

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Speaker 5: that stuff, and she fought back, right, And then there's

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Speaker 5: the comment, but Sheila kept stabbing her until she was

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Speaker 5: no longer moving and her quote neck stopped making gurgling

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Speaker 5: sounds end quote. So for a child to use those words,

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Speaker 5: that detail is significant. It's significant in the fact that

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Speaker 5: it tells me how active, aware and completely in touch

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Speaker 5: with what is happening and what they are doing. In

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Speaker 5: order to make that observation and then later talk about it,

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Speaker 5: you are in the moment, you know what's going on.

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Speaker 5: You're not in some blind rage, you're not blacking out,

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Speaker 5: you know, you know exactly what you're doing and the

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Speaker 5: consequences of what is happening.

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Speaker 3: So that's when we go back to and this is

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Speaker 3: the question, because there was no remorse, you know, after

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Speaker 3: this happened, Sheila was you know, confronting and you know, consoling,

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Speaker 3: I should say, the parents, and she knew what she did.

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Speaker 2: As a sociopathic part right, so that.

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Speaker 3: We could absolutely say Sheila is a sociopath without diagnosing.

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Speaker 6: Of course.

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Speaker 5: Well, let's consider the situation for a minute. So what

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Speaker 5: you have is a true, unempathetic, cold person, And let's

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Speaker 5: look at what she's actually doing. She's in the family's house, Yeah,

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Speaker 5: consoling the family, handing out flyers, hanging up She's participating.

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Speaker 5: If we think back, who else did that?

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Speaker 2: Michelle carter Yep.

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Speaker 5: So it shows callousness, it shows deception, it shows well

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Speaker 5: thought out lies. Right, and it begins to borderline on

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Speaker 5: psychopathy and the characteristics of the sociopath. We can't deny that,

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Speaker 5: whether we're psychologists or not.

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Speaker 2: It's there, yeah, right, yeah, right, it's.

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Speaker 5: You know, you would look at it as sadistic, antisocial,

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Speaker 5: all of that stuff, all that bad stuff that goes

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Speaker 5: along with being a sociopath and being devious and manipulating

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Speaker 5: all the way until the end.

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Speaker 2: Right. And she was with the family when Skuyler's body

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Speaker 2: was discovered.

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Speaker 5: If I'm not mistaken, yeah, she's she counseled the family.

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Speaker 5: Yeah said how said how sorry she was?

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: But let's put our attention to and this happens in

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Speaker 5: every one of these cases. So when you have a

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Speaker 5: leader and a follower, the follower always cracks.

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Speaker 2: Right, yeh, which is what happened.

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Speaker 5: Followers the one with remorse, with guilt, with a conscience,

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Speaker 5: and the follower always goes in and cuts that deal first, right, right,

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Speaker 5: And that's exactly what you have here, I.

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Speaker 3: Think Rachel, you know, yes, she did, you know kind

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Speaker 3: of deal, but it like really started to weigh on

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Speaker 3: her her psychological, her well being, Like she couldn't she

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Speaker 3: couldn't hold that anymore, she couldn't function.

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Speaker 6: Yeah. The other girl, you know, Sheila, it was like nothing.

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Speaker 5: Because she didn't feel. Yeah, she has no capability, no

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Speaker 5: feeling of love of what we talk about a lot,

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Speaker 5: which is that empathy putting herself in the parent's position.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and it's very.

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Speaker 5: Common in teens who kill that one of them is

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Speaker 5: like that, it is, yeah, yeah, And you know, let's

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Speaker 5: go back into their lives and we can see how

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Speaker 5: that has an effect on it. Because Rachel talks about

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Speaker 5: having a good upbringing, you know, parents who loved her.

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Speaker 5: That's whereas Shila talks about not having that.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that factors into it, for sure.

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Speaker 5: It's different wires and all these wires start to cross,

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Speaker 5: and it's very rare that that happens, and it's sad

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Speaker 5: all around.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for sure, Like you said earlier, especially when

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Speaker 3: it's it's young kids, you know, young minds that are

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Speaker 3: doing these god awful things and hurting other young people

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Speaker 3: that it's just so heartbreaking. It goes back to mental

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Speaker 3: well being, you know, because there's something you know where

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Speaker 3: she's not one hundred percent Well that's awful, right, Yeah, she.

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Speaker 5: Had an eating disorder, she was she was depressed. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: there was a lot of factors going on.

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Speaker 6: There, a lot of things happening when.

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Speaker 5: Her Bodi's found Skyler. Sheila even posts on Twitter, worst

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Speaker 5: day of my whole life.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 5: With Shila, it's clear that there is no why. There

404
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Speaker 5: is no why. What it is is she wanted to

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Speaker 5: get back at this girl for something we probably will

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Speaker 5: never know, no, yeah, and instead of just unfriending her, right,

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Speaker 5: she decided violence and murder was the way to do that.

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Speaker 5: That she had to pay a price for whatever she did.

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Speaker 5: And you know there's people out in the world like that, unfortunately,

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Speaker 5: that that's what they choose, you know, they choose violence

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Speaker 5: over just walking away.

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Speaker 3: But I think that's where social media comes in again,

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Speaker 3: you know, and we can talk about this all day long.

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Speaker 3: Because when you're putting your stuff out there on social media,

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Speaker 3: as you know Skyler and Sila and Rachel were doing

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Speaker 3: on Twitter and saying things, you're putting it out there

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Speaker 3: for an audience. So now it's not just between the

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Speaker 3: three of you of what's going on, but now it's

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Speaker 3: like a boxing match, you know what I mean. Now

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Speaker 3: you're putting it out there into the world, and people

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Speaker 3: are festering on that and creating this evil.

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Speaker 5: No, there's been studies about crowds and how crowds react.

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Speaker 5: So crowds, you know, will react one person, then ten people,

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Speaker 5: then twenty people started reacting a certain way, the whole

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Speaker 5: crowd will start following them. Yeah, right, because oh my god,

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Speaker 5: oh my god. Whatever. So in this case, you have

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Speaker 5: it on social media. But again going back to Shila,

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Speaker 5: Shila was using social media as a cover. Basically, she

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Speaker 5: was putting out lies on social media to cover up

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Speaker 5: what she did, and she was probably getting a high

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Speaker 5: off that. I'm sure she was getting an adrenaline rush,

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Speaker 5: because the one thing that sociopaths need more than a

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Speaker 5: lot of things is stimulation. They need to be stimulated. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: and that's like here you have Sheila interacting with the

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Speaker 5: girl's family, so she's that's stimulating to her. She'd walk

436
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 5: away from that house guaranteed. Look what I got away

437
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 5: with today telling herself, Wow, what it would a fix?

438
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 5: You know, what a high see.

439
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 2: And I'm still sitting here with the why. I'm still

440
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 2: like why. I mean, they were friends from the time

441
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 2: they were little kids. It's not like that, you know,

442
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 2: Sheila and Skuyler had just met. Rachel obviously was new

443
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 2: to the click. That's a really hard question to answer.

444
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 2: It could just be, you know how people are jealous,

445
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 2: and jealous turns into hurtful and evil, and you just

446
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 2: don't know, and you don't know what happened in her past,

447
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 2: Like you said, she didn't have the upbringing that Rachel had,

448
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 2: Like you never know what triggered in her brain as

449
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 2: a young child that set her in this direction. Yeah.

450
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 5: I remember I had been interviewing a serial killer for

451
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 5: at the time, it was about six years, and I'd

452
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 5: often try to rope him into talking about God and

453
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 5: evil and good and this and that, just to get

454
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 5: his sense of it. And he didn't believe in God,

455
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 5: of course, and so I said, let's talk about evil,

456
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 5: and he said this was his comedy. He said, well,

457
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 5: if there is evil in the world, I'm it.

458
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 6: Wow.

459
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 5: So he knew, right, He says, if we're going to

460
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:47,160
Speaker 5: use evil as a word to describe something, that's me wow.

461
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 5: And for him there was no why. There didn't have

462
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 5: to be a why. There were triggers. There were triggers,

463
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 5: you know, a woman said something he didn't like or

464
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 5: whatever triggered him. But there never was no why other

465
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 5: than the fact that at this is a decision he made. Yeah,

466
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,360
Speaker 5: you know, I'm going to kill this woman today, end

467
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 5: of story. In Sheila's case, she made that decision. It's

468
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,880
Speaker 5: clear that they made that decision a long time before

469
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 5: they took carried out this murder because of all the

470
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 5: things they took with them, the pre planning, the driving

471
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:26,679
Speaker 5: out to the area, and then everything after that, the

472
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 5: social media posts, we miss you, where are you Skyler,

473
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 5: we miss you? Come home, handing out the flyers, getting

474
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 5: with the family. That's all part of the stimulation, the

475
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 5: high the why, that's all part of the why why.

476
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 5: Because she wanted to.

477
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 2: And she thought she could get away with it, or

478
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 2: she just didn't care.

479
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 5: Most sociopaths, you know when we look at their behavior later,

480
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,199
Speaker 5: we're like Jesus, I mean, how the hell did you

481
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 5: think you could possibly get away with this?

482
00:27:58,200 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 6: Right?

483
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 5: But now let's put ourselves in their position. Their position narcissism.

484
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 5: I believe I'm.

485
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 6: Smarter than everybody else.

486
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 5: I believe what I'm doing. No one's going to figure out.

487
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 5: I can convince, I can trick, I can manipulate, I

488
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 5: can lie, and people are going to believe it. So

489
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 5: although it looks like kind of megalomaniac thinking to us,

490
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 5: it's how they think. This is how their brain spinds,

491
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 5: which makes them dangerous.

492
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 2: So shifting gears a little bit, I do want to

493
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 2: talk to you about what you think about this. So

494
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 2: one issue in Skyler's case is that the amber alert

495
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 2: didn't go out for Skylert. But do you think that

496
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 2: law enforcement failed her because they just thought, oh, she's sixteen,

497
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 2: she ran away, so as you run away, yeah, she's

498
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 2: not a victim, you know, do you think that was

499
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 2: a mistake.

500
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 5: I see a lot of cases like this where a

501
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 5: team goes missing and immediately they just jumped.

502
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 2: To that they ran away.

503
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 5: They took off with a boy or a girl, and

504
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 5: they're they're you know, they're on their way to love

505
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 5: finding the sunset from the beach, and they'll be back.

506
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 5: Most good law enforcement don't think like that.

507
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 2: If they're under eighteen, they'll just issue the amber alert.

508
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, they'll just boom. And it should be

509
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 5: that way. It should just be automatic.

510
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, Okay.

511
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 5: If she ran away, okay, fine, then we'll find her

512
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 5: with the amber alert.

513
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 2: Doesn't hurt anything, right, Yeah.

514
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 5: What it does is get people involved in the present

515
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 5: moment of the day basically.

516
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 6: Right, it's the community involved, exactly.

517
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 5: It baffles the mind, you know, it baffles the mind

518
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 5: when I see stuff like that and it doesn't happen.

519
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 5: I think in this case, a law then gets enacted

520
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 5: because of this case.

521
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's actually called Skuyler's Law. So it expanded the

522
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 2: date's Amber alert system to include any child who has

523
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 2: disappeared and is believed to be endangered.

524
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 6: That's the silver lining, Right.

525
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 5: I have an amber alert story I can tell you of. Yeah,

526
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 5: case said, I wrote a book. So, all right, So

527
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 5: there's this woman who's eight months pregnant and another woman

528
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 5: decides that it's her baby.

529
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 6: It's not.

530
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 5: So she drives from Kansas to Missouri, and she had

531
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 5: befriended this pregnant woman, and she drives there one day,

532
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 5: takes a pairing knife, cuts that baby out of her,

533
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 5: takes the baby, takes off. The sheriff shows up. Okay,

534
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 5: Sheriff ben Espy, great person that I've met along my journey.

535
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 5: He shows up and he wants to issue an amber

536
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 5: alert immediately. Of course, here's what he gets. He gets, Yeah,

537
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 5: we're not issuing an ambler for it's a fetus. I

538
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 5: don't know if it's a baby. They get into this hole,

539
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 5: back and forth. Right, So finally he says I needed that.

540
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 5: He tells me, he says, I needed that Amber alert

541
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 5: to find that kid. I mean I needed to have

542
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 5: that amber I mean you put on an ambler alert

543
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 5: for a baby that's been born.

544
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 2: That way, people are gonna be looking, Yeah, and.

545
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 5: They're gonna notice. They're gonna notice something's wrong with that kid. Right,

546
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 5: Long story short. He ends up calling the congress person

547
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 5: in his district and he says, listen, he said, if

548
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 5: you ever want to get elected again, you're gonna get

549
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 5: that fucking Amber alert out tonight. Yep, and bang, they

550
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 5: put that amber alert out. Within a couple hours, had

551
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 5: all kinds of calls. Perpetrator was found with the baby

552
00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 5: in her arms.

553
00:31:58,640 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 6: Wow.

554
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 3: You know, going back to Skylar's case, I mean, it

555
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 3: took them six months longer just to find her body,

556
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 3: you know, because they just assumed she was a runaway.

557
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 3: But the parents, you know, the parents were on them

558
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 3: to find her. So it's like, we need people in

559
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 3: the justice system, you know, in all of these communities

560
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 3: to really listen to what these families are saying, you know,

561
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 3: and care, like truly care.

562
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 5: It's easier to love than to hate. We've said this before.

563
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 5: I think doesn't take anything to love somebody, but it

564
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 5: takes so much energy to hate so much.

565
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 2: Matthew, I wish you had met our mom because my

566
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 2: mom always said something to me and to Evet, but

567
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 2: more to me because I'm the more sensitive one. She

568
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 2: would always say, Rashia, there's more good than there is

569
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 2: evil in the world. No matter how dark it gets,

570
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 2: you have to know that the light is always going

571
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 2: to shine.

572
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 5: Yeah.

573
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, our mother was, you know, a bright light who

574
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 3: had a very very very hard and dark life. But

575
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 3: through all of that darkness, she fought for the light,

576
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 3: and she fought for the light and Therefore she instill that,

577
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 3: you know, in both Russia and I so to be here,

578
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 3: to be with you on this platform with a like

579
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 3: minded soulmate, you know, is very empowering for us because

580
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 3: again I go back to this is not an easy industry.

581
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 3: You know, people a lot of people just like to

582
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 3: hear the brutality of it all, the sensationalism of it all.

583
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 3: But there's so much more to that, you know, because

584
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 3: it affects everyone. It affects the family, it affects the neighbors,

585
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 3: it affects the community, it affects the world.

586
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, you got to have responsibility talking about.

587
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 3: This, yeah, exactly.

588
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 5: So yeah, some people don't, but you know, I just

589
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 5: I don't pay attention to that.

590
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 3: What is the light for you in this case? Like,

591
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 3: where's the hope? Where's the growth?

592
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:17,240
Speaker 5: Part of it is that Amber alert lag Skyler's law. Yeah,

593
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 5: so at least something good came out of it. The

594
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 5: other part of it for me was Rachel's behavior at

595
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 5: the end. How she takes responsibility. Yeah, she displays remorse,

596
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 5: she displays empathy, sorrow, and she takes responsibility. Yes, I

597
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 5: think that says a lot.

598
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 2: It does.

599
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 3: Well, It's been an amazing, amazing hour having you here

600
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 3: on this show.

601
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 6: Matthew.

602
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 3: Again, we appreciate your light, your wisdom, your heart, your intelligence,

603
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,839
Speaker 3: but most of all, we just appreciate you for being

604
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 3: you and being here on facing evil with us.

605
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 5: Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate you asking

606
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,399
Speaker 5: me again to come on. I'm very honored that you did.

607
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 5: And you know we're friends for life.

608
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 2: Now, that's right. Today's message of hope and healing goes

609
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 2: out to the Ohanna, or the family of Skyler niece.

610
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 2: Skyler's family remembers her fondly. She was a big reader

611
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 2: who loved the Twilight books and she was just getting

612
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 2: into the classics like Great Expectations. She was a girl

613
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:35,959
Speaker 2: after my own heart.

614
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:37,320
Speaker 6: She loved hip hop.

615
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 3: Tyler the Creator and mac Miller were two of her

616
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 3: favorite artists.

617
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 2: Her family also said she had a wicked sense of humor.

618
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,760
Speaker 2: Her aunt, Carol recalls that Skyler gave her the nickname

619
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 2: Sparky after she accidentally set some tissue papers on fire.

620
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 2: She even decorated a spark plug as a Christmas ornament

621
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 2: and gave it to her aunt as a guide gift.

622
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 3: And while we know all these things about Skyler, the

623
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 3: truth was that she was still figuring out who she

624
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,320
Speaker 3: was and something that she would never get a chance

625
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:15,879
Speaker 3: to do.

626
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 2: And so today's message of hope and healing goes out

627
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 2: to the memory of Skuyler and to her Ohana, her family,

628
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 2: Onward and upward.

629
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 6: Emua emua.

630
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 2: Well, that's our show for today. We'd love to hear

631
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 2: what you thought about today's discussion and if there's a

632
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 2: case you'd like for us to.

633
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 3: Cover, find us on social media or email us at

634
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 3: Facingevil pod at tenderfoot dot tv.

635
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 2: And one small request if you haven't already, please find

636
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 2: us on iTunes and give us a good rating and

637
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,399
Speaker 2: a good review. If you like what we do, your

638
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,320
Speaker 2: support is always cherished.

639
00:36:57,760 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 6: Until next time.

640
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 2: Aloha.

641
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:20,399
Speaker 1: Facing Evil is a production of iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV.

642
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,320
Speaker 1: The show is hosted by Russia Pacuerero and a Vet Gentile.

643
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 1: Matt Frederick and Alex Williams our executive producers on behalf

644
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, with producers Trevor Young and Jesse Funk Donald

645
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 1: albright In Payne Lindsay our executive producers on behalf of

646
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV, alongside producer Tracy Kaplan. Our researcher is Carolyn Talmadge.

647
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 1: Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Find us on

648
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,879
Speaker 1: social media or email us at Facing Evil pod at

649
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:55,919
Speaker 1: tenderfoot dot tv. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV,

650
00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

651
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:01,800
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows