1 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savor Prediction of iHeartRadio. I'm any 2 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:11,960 Speaker 1: Retiar and. 3 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 2: I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an episode for 4 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 2: you about Thomas and George Downing. 5 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: Yes, any particular reason that this topic was on your mind, Lauren. 6 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 2: Yes, it is Black History Month here in the United States, 7 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 2: and generally on this show, even outside of February, we 8 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 2: like to talk about that important part of our shared history. 9 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 2: And these are a pair of restauranteurs and social activists 10 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 2: from history. I'm getting a little ahead of myself, but 11 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:52,160 Speaker 2: here we are who were just super interesting, cool human people. 12 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 2: And I had not heard their story before, and I 13 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 2: was googling and found a reference to them, and I 14 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 2: was like, yeah, sure. 15 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a It's a really great story and definitely 16 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 1: deserves a mini series or something. 17 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, I want a TV series about this, 18 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 2: about them so hard right now? Somebody, somebody call us. 19 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:24,759 Speaker 1: They should call us. 20 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 2: Oh well, no, not to make a TV series, clearly, 21 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 2: but I've got but I've got like the pitch to 22 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 2: send to someone capable. 23 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: I see, I see, okay, yes, yeah, call us. We'll 24 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: wait eagerly. 25 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yes, yes, Well this was a really fun one, 26 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 3: and it's gonna be interesting because it kind of unfolded 27 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 3: differently than we normally do our episodes. 28 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:01,559 Speaker 1: But those biography episodes are kind of like that, yeah yeah, yeah, 29 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: But it's gonna be cool because it is a really 30 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:11,519 Speaker 1: it's a interesting history. So excited to share four past episodes. 31 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: I would say you could see other biography episodes perhaps 32 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 1: and oysters. 33 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:22,079 Speaker 2: Definitely Oysters, also turtle soup maybe aspects. I don't think 34 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 2: we really mention it in the outline, but just in 35 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 2: terms of like dishes that were considered very fancy and 36 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 2: cool in the eighteen hundredsish in America. Also our French 37 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 2: cuisine episodes to talk about like how restaurants sort of 38 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 2: came to be. 39 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:45,919 Speaker 1: Yes, there is a lot time back in this one, 40 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 1: I have to say. 41 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 2: But oh yeah oo yeah where yep, yep. 42 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 1: And we're going to do our best, yes, But that 43 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: brings us to our question the Downings. Who are they? 44 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 2: Well? Thomas and George Downing were father and son black 45 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 2: American oysterman restaurateurs and social activists working during the tumultuous 46 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 2: eighteen hundreds. They ran high end commercial dining rooms when 47 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 2: that was a new thing. 48 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: In the US. 49 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 2: They made a lot of powerful connections and friends, and 50 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 2: they used that influence to help improve the lives and 51 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 2: social standing of Black Americans at a time when enslavement 52 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 2: was not yet in the rear view. Thomas Downing was 53 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 2: known as the Oyster King of New York when the 54 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 2: city was basically the oyster capital of the world. And 55 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 2: his son ran the restaurant at the House of Representatives 56 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 2: for a number of years, and they both worked like 57 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 2: above ground with mutual aid and abolitionist groups and also lawmakers. 58 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 2: But furthermore ran a stop on the under ground railroad 59 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 2: like yeah, in the basement of their oyster restaurant where 60 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 2: every Wall Street mogul brought their families for a fancy meal. 61 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 1: Yep, sure did, sure did? Uh? Well, what about the nutrition? 62 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 2: Do not eat historical pillars of the community? Learning about 63 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 2: them is probably metaphorically nutriented though. 64 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, good for your brain. 65 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, I have kind of a number for you. 66 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 2: We'll cover a couple of numbers in the history section, 67 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 2: which is, as always with our biographies, the longest section 68 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 2: of this episode. But just for example, Thomas Downing was 69 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 2: the equivalent of a millionaire in his time. He once 70 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 2: catered an event for Charles Dickens that had like two 71 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 2: to three thousand guests. It was something like one hundred 72 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 2: thousand dollars dinner in today's money. 73 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: Wow, huh. I don't know if I'll ever get an 74 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: invitation like. 75 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 2: That, And that's okay. I wouldn't know what to do 76 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 2: with myself at a party like that. I barely know 77 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 2: what to do with myself at any party. 78 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. Half the times I come home when I kind 79 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: of cry a little, I don't know what to make 80 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: of that. 81 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 2: I a little bit before and a little bit after. 82 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 2: That's fine, right, that's normal. 83 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: No, We're totally fine and normal over here. That's what 84 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 1: everyone says about us. It's true everyone. You could ask anybody. 85 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 2: That's why we do biography episodes and other people don't 86 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 2: do biography episodes about us. 87 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 1: I would not want to hear what they would put 88 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: in that episode on me. 89 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:57,159 Speaker 2: Oh goodness. 90 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: Anyway, anyway, this is not about us, no, no, but 91 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 1: we do have quite a bit of history to go over. 92 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, we do, and we are going to 93 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 2: get into it as soon as we get back from 94 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 2: a quick break. For word from our sponsors and our 95 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 2: back thank you. Sponsors, Yes, thank you. 96 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: Okay, So there's a lot of myth and legend behind 97 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: the Downing stories, so keep that in mind as we 98 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 1: go over the history. Also, there's a lot of confusion, 99 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: as Lauren and I we're discussing. 100 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, a lot of both modern and contemporary sources 101 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 2: tend to mix up which Downing was doing what at 102 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 2: what time. And they were both working for like a 103 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 2: large overlapping number of years on similar projects and in 104 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 2: similar spaces. So yeah, it was an interesting one to 105 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 2: try to detangle. And we can't promise, like we're not historians, 106 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 2: we can't promise that we have done a perfect job 107 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 2: of it, but we feel I feel fairly confident. 108 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: I do as well. I do as well, Yeah, because 109 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: we really had to work this one out, and that 110 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: is what I'll say. Yeah, yes, So beginning with Thomas Downing. 111 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: Thomas Downing was born in Virginia in seventeen ninety one. 112 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: While a lot of his early history is lost, his 113 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: parents were formally enslaved and gained freedom sometime before seventeen 114 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: eighty three. His parents were able to purchase land near 115 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: the Chesapeake Bay, and because of that, Downing grew up 116 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 1: near fishermen and oystermen, and through this he picked up 117 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: some real knowledge around things like the harvest of oysters 118 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: and clams. It was something that he did on his 119 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: own when he had the time. 120 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 2: Also, his parents worked at a Methodist church that wealthy 121 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 2: and influential families in the area attended, and who the 122 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 2: Downings often had his guests after services. So really, very 123 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 2: early in life, Thomas had access to two critical prongs 124 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 2: of his future business, oystering and these prominent connections. 125 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: Yes, so Thomas moved to Philadelphia during the War of 126 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: eighteen twelve. It's unclear if he joined the war effort 127 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: or just followed the troops north, and he spent several 128 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: years there, and during that time met and married his wife, 129 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: Rebecca West. We don't have much to go off of 130 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: when it comes to their time in Philadelphia, but historians 131 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:40,679 Speaker 1: do know that there was a lot of black involvement 132 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: in the cuisine happening in the city at the time, 133 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: so it's likely that Thomas was soaking all of that up. 134 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: A couple of years later, in eighteen nineteen, he and 135 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: his wife packed up and moved to New York City again. 136 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 1: The reasoning is a little fuzzy here about the move, 137 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:00,439 Speaker 1: but it was probably several things. One of those things 138 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: might have been that New York was just a really 139 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 1: growing state. The city especially was really growing. Another possible 140 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: influencer was that there was an eighteen seventeen New York 141 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: state mandate that all enslaved New Yorkers were to be 142 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:17,679 Speaker 1: freed by eighteen twenty seven, So that might have been 143 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: another reason. The pair would go on to have five children, 144 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: including George. 145 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, George was their oldest, born in eighteen nineteen. After 146 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 2: they arrived in New York. 147 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: Sometime around the start of the eighteen twenties, Thomas was 148 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: running an oyster stand, and by eighteen twenty five he 149 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: had opened an oyster refectory, a place of food, drink, 150 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: and oysters, often located in cellars. 151 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I wasn't familiar with the term refectory. It 152 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,079 Speaker 2: just means like a communal dining room. And I'm pretty 153 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 2: sure it was just like the term used for restaurants 154 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 2: before restaurants was the term. 155 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. Around this time, New York was 156 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: starting to get a reputation for the size and quality 157 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: of the oysters coming out of the Hudson Bay and 158 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: they were plentiful. Then again see our oyster episode, so 159 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: they weren't that expensive. A lot of the people involved 160 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: in the oyster industry in York at the time were 161 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: black folks, and Downing was involved in both harvesting his 162 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: own oysters as an oyster vendor and going to the 163 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 1: docks to purchase the best catch from other oystermen as 164 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: a restauranteur. 165 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, as a restauranteur, going down to the docks or 166 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 2: even out on the water to meet oystermen before any 167 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 2: other buyer could get to them, possibly to get the 168 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 2: best product and possibly to help drive up the price 169 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 2: a little bit for these hardworking fellows. 170 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: Yes, and the story goes that he formed a lot 171 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: of connections this way. Downing fostered a well off set 172 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: of white patrons through this. The dining scene in York 173 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 1: was really growing and changing, and the city was a 174 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: magnet for all kinds of influential folks. Downing had the 175 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: advantage of being in a prime location his restaurant in 176 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 1: the business district, so he was getting all kinds of 177 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:14,439 Speaker 1: wealthy clientele. By eighteen thirty five, he had done well 178 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: enough for himself to expand. Yeah, he was renting space 179 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 1: in this building near the corner of Broad and Wall Streets, 180 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: at first at number five Broad and then the surrounding 181 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: three and seven spaces as well. And one of these 182 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 1: had a deep cellar with an underground stream running through it. Yes, 183 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,319 Speaker 1: and this allowed him to construct his own oyster vault 184 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 1: so he could keep the oysters fresh until they were ordered, 185 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 1: whatever which way customers wanted. Scalloped oysters, roasted oysters on 186 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: an iron over oak shavings, by the way, oyster pie, 187 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: oyster stuffed turkey, Oh yes, so intrigued. 188 00:11:56,040 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 2: Right man, and other posh dishes like turtle soup were 189 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 2: also on the menu. 190 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: He was also a pretty business savvy person when it 191 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: came to advertising, running ads in major New York publications. 192 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: In those ads, he touted up the superior quality and 193 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: flavor of his oysters and promised that they could deliver 194 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: quickly to wherever you were in New York. In New 195 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: York City, they could get the oysters to you. And 196 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: he really built it up too, with phrases like served 197 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: up in my usual superior style. And as you can imagine, 198 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 1: all of this earned him somewhat of a reputation, especially 199 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: when it came to oysters. It kind of changed how 200 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 1: people viewed oysters too, not as just the street snack 201 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: or a cheap item at a dive, but as a 202 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: fine food. 203 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,679 Speaker 2: Over the next few decades, those oyster sellers around New 204 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 2: York City may in fact have helped give rise to 205 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 2: the slang term dive bar like literally meaning a place 206 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 2: you have to go down from the street level to enter, 207 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 2: and also right like a rough around the edges kind 208 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 2: of establishment. But that was not what Downing's oyster House was. 209 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:19,439 Speaker 2: Think like a shimmering chandelier and damss curtains and nice 210 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:24,839 Speaker 2: carpets and mirrors on the walls. Notably like Delmonico's, the 211 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 2: famous upscale steakhouse in New York City didn't open until 212 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 2: two years after Downing's oyster House. 213 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 1: Right, and an eighteen forty five article from The New 214 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: York Tribune listed Downing's Oyster House as the first of 215 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: thirteen pioneering restaurants in New York. Thomas's connections continued to grow. Politicians, 216 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: the media, celebrities. Some credit his restaurant as the first 217 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: to offer fine dining in New York City. It was 218 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: the go to oyster spot, and it was a place 219 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: people could take their families or go on dates. Because, yes, 220 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: many oyster houses didn't allow women back then. 221 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 2: However, Downing's oyster house did not serve black patrons. This 222 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 2: was a complicated time. 223 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: Yes. On top of restaurant touring, Downing also exported oysters 224 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: fresh and pickled, and catered events. Some of the events 225 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: were pretty big too. Yes. When author Charles Dickens was 226 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: a guest at Park Theater in eighteen forty two, Thomas 227 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: catered that event, and sources claim that about two five 228 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: hundred attendees at the event went through about twenty five 229 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: thousand oysters. 230 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 2: I don't know. I read three thousand attendees. I read 231 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 2: twice that number of oysters, plus ten thousand sandwiches, forty hams, 232 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 2: fifty six beef tongues, fifty rounds of beef, fifty jellied turkeys, 233 00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 2: fifty pairs of chicken, twenty five of duck, and two 234 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 2: thousand mutton chops. 235 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. I probably would have cried after that. I might 236 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: have had a grand old time. Yeah. 237 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:16,479 Speaker 2: I couldn't confirm any of that, but I was entertained. 238 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: Jelly turkeys was something we were descibed. 239 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, That's why I had to mention the 240 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 2: aspects at any rate. One add the Downing placed in 241 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 2: eighteen fifty six for his Christmas catering of boned turkeys 242 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 2: and pickled oysters, ended with ladies will save money as 243 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 2: well as time and trouble by sending their orders to 244 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 2: Downing number three Broad Street, who will furnish them with 245 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 2: something to make their guests, if they have any taste, 246 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 2: go into ecstasies. 247 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: Into ecstasies right. Oh. The burgeoning railways in the United 248 00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: States and industrialization with things like steamboats allow Downing to 249 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: transport his oysters to more places in the US and also. 250 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 2: Globally like there ares stories of wealthy Americans setting up 251 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 2: overseas in Paris and throwing parties to impress and ordering 252 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 2: oysters from Downing to be fried up on site, and 253 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 2: that being a huge hit with the folks. 254 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: Does sound good. One of those global locations was England, 255 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: and according to Thomas's family, after sending a box of 256 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: his fanciest oysters to Queen Victoria, she sent him a 257 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: gold chronometer in return. It's like a much loved family 258 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: heirloom from what I understand. By eighteen fifty seven, Thomas 259 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: was one of the wealthiest black men in New York City. 260 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 2: Meanwhile, the Downing Sun George had been making a name 261 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 2: for himself in the restaurant industry as well. By eighteen 262 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 2: forty five, at the age of twenty four, he had 263 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 2: opened his own catering establishment in New York City near 264 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 2: Forth and Broadway. He had also married another well to 265 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 2: do New Yorker, one Serena Leonora de Grass, whose father 266 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 2: was from India and mother was from Germany. Did go 267 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 2: on to have nine children together, though I think only 268 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:11,399 Speaker 2: five made. 269 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 1: It to adulthood. 270 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 2: Through his wealthy customer connections, in eighteen forty six, George 271 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,679 Speaker 2: moved his family to Rhode Island and became part of 272 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 2: the booming summer tourism industry there. He even built the 273 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 2: Seagirt House, which was this five story hotel restaurant catering 274 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 2: operation in Newport in eighteen fifty five. 275 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 1: Yes, and as mentioned, both Downings were also involved in 276 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: political activism and abolitionism. When Thomas was living in New York, 277 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: most black people in the city didn't have access to 278 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 1: as many opportunities in housing, employment, or education as white 279 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: people did. There were riots against black homes and establishments 280 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: to Thomas Downing organizations and efforts to combat this and 281 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: uplift black people in general. He went to the first 282 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: Annual Convention for the Improvement of Free People of Color 283 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: held in Philadelphia in eighteen thirty. He was one of 284 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 1: forty delegates, and they had to meet in secret before 285 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: the event due to the threat of violence. He was 286 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 1: heavily involved in education as well. He was a trustee 287 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 1: of an organization that ended up creating the city's first 288 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 1: high school for black students and two elementary schools. He 289 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: was involved in the founding of the all black New 290 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 1: York City Anti Slavery Society in the eighteen thirties. And 291 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:42,239 Speaker 1: not only that, his restaurant, Downing's Oyster House, was a 292 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 1: stop on the Underground Railroad. 293 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 2: Remember that at this time, people seeking freedom from enslavement 294 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 2: in states where that was still legal could be hunted 295 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 2: down for bounty, even in free states. And growing up, 296 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 2: George clearly absorbed the activist work that his father was 297 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 2: involved in. I think that he was arrested as a 298 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 2: teenager for work with the underground Railroad. There's a possibility 299 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 2: it's one of his brothers, but I think it was him. 300 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 2: He joined the Anti Slavery Society as well and helped 301 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 2: organize to protest the bounty hunting of a freedom seekers. 302 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:26,199 Speaker 2: Both Downings also worked to abolish a poll tax of 303 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 2: sorts of the time. New York State required black men 304 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 2: to own a certain value of real estate in order 305 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 2: to vote, but there was no such rule for white 306 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,640 Speaker 2: men in New York after eighteen twenty one. 307 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: Yes, and ultimately their goal wasn't achieved, but they brought 308 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:46,199 Speaker 1: more attention to the issue. 309 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 2: Yeah. It was up for vote three times from eighteen 310 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 2: forty six through eighteen sixty nine and failed each time 311 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:57,120 Speaker 2: due to white voters opposition. It took the Fifteenth Amendment 312 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:01,360 Speaker 2: to the Constitution in eighteen seventy and it's national scope 313 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 2: of voting rights for men to bring this New York 314 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 2: state rule down. 315 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 1: Right. And through Thomas's involvement in all of these organizations 316 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: and associations, as well as his success as an oyster man, 317 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 1: he really did make a name for himself. More than 318 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 1: once he refused to leave a white segregated trolley car, 319 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: and one time it resulted in injuries to himself. 320 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, which he was able to sue the trolley company 321 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 2: over because the assailant was the trolley driver. The company 322 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 2: did fire the driver for use of force, but in court, 323 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 2: the white jury ruled in favor of the company. This 324 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,239 Speaker 2: was part of a larger effort to desegregate the New 325 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 2: York City trolleys, which did succeed over the next couple 326 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:52,160 Speaker 2: of decades. And I will say that another time that 327 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 2: Thomas Downing refused to leave a trolley car and the 328 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 2: driver stopped the trolley to try to force Thomas off. 329 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 2: A bunch of people pushed the trolley car onward until 330 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 2: the driver gave up and just let him stay on. 331 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 2: I'm not sure whether this was like an organized response 332 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 2: or whether it was Rando's being like, is that our 333 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 2: favorite oyster dude, Let our favorite oyster dude stay. 334 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 1: On the trolley? I don't know, Yeah, yeah, hard to say. 335 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 1: Thomas also allegedly sued clients who didn't pay up on 336 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: their catering bills, and he would take those that didn't 337 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: pay their bills to court. 338 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 2: Which right was something that a lot of black people 339 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,360 Speaker 2: at the time would not have had access to if 340 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 2: they were being cheated by clients. He had the money 341 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 2: to throw around. One of the tales told about Thomas 342 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 2: Downing is that when the head of the New York 343 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 2: Herald newspaper at the time, Won James Gordon Bennett Senior, 344 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 2: kind of slumped into the Oyster House for a sympathetic 345 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:03,360 Speaker 2: ear about his failure paper one day, Downing loaned him 346 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:09,160 Speaker 2: a cool ten grand on the spot. WHOA, that would 347 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 2: be a lot today. 348 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 1: That'd be a lot today. 349 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:22,919 Speaker 2: Yes, but yeah, Thomas's like public facing, relatively polite activism 350 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 2: and philanthropy through all of the organizations that Annie mentioned 351 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 2: a minute ago, plus you know, like his church and 352 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:35,199 Speaker 2: the Freemasons and the Odd Fellows and local orphanages. It 353 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 2: all let him keep a very good reputation in like 354 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 2: white capitalist society. In eighteen sixty two, he was written 355 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,880 Speaker 2: about in the conservative white press as essentially like one 356 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 2: of the good ones in terms of his activism, which 357 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 2: which is both a horribly racist sentiment and also makes 358 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 2: me downright gleeful in that they apparently had no idea 359 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 2: what all he was up to regarding the underground railroad. 360 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 2: Indeed makes me really sad that he had to hide it, 361 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 2: but really glad that he was able to get away 362 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 2: with it. 363 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:29,920 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, absolutely a new landlord purchased the original location 364 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: of Downing's restaurant in eighteen sixty three, and it closed, 365 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 1: but Thomas kept going at a nearby location with the 366 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 1: help of friends for a while, but soon retired as 367 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,879 Speaker 1: he was getting older, and his son stepped in to 368 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: take over the operation. 369 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 2: When Downing announced his retirement and a party to go 370 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 2: along with it, the New York Herald ran an announcement 371 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 2: that began Downing, the Great Oyster Man, and who has 372 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 2: not heard of him, retires from business this spring. 373 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:05,680 Speaker 1: Oh In eighteen sixty six, the day after the passing 374 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 1: of the Civil Rights Act, Thomas Downing died at the 375 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: age of seventy five. The New York Chamber of Commerce 376 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 1: closed the day of his funeral. His son, George, kept 377 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 1: the Oyster House in operation until eighteen seventy one. 378 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:22,679 Speaker 2: For the record, the way, I don't know that much 379 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 2: about the New York Chamber of Commerce, but from what 380 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 2: I understand, that had never happened. 381 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like a bear. 382 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 2: And never happens. But yeah, like everyone came out, everyone 383 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:41,640 Speaker 2: came out. George, meanwhile, had been busy over in Rhode Island, 384 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,199 Speaker 2: where he had been fighting to get public schools desegregated 385 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 2: through actions like lobbying and like straight refusing to back 386 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:56,360 Speaker 2: liberal political candidates who didn't support this change. The Seagirt 387 00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:01,160 Speaker 2: House burned down under suspicious circumstances in six but he 388 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 2: did rebuild an even larger structure on the site, known 389 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,679 Speaker 2: as the Downing Block. Rhode Island would end school segregation 390 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 2: after the Civil War in eighteen sixty six. George Downing 391 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,880 Speaker 2: also got involved directly in Washington, d c. And kept 392 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 2: a residence on Capitol Hill. He helped the first black 393 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 2: ambassador for the United States, one Edward Bassett, get appointed. 394 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 2: A Bassett conducted diplomacy for the US with Haiti, and 395 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 2: as I said in our intro, George ran the official 396 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,399 Speaker 2: cafe restaurant of the US House of Representatives that the 397 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 2: members dining room from eighteen sixty five through eighteen seventy seven. 398 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 2: It was at the time strictly only for House members 399 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,399 Speaker 2: and their guests, and by this point in history was 400 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 2: like a very well appointed restaurant under Downing's control. It 401 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 2: was written about in the press as one of the 402 00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 2: best restaurants in the Union. That's a direct quote. And 403 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 2: reportedly Downing made dang sure that black guests were served 404 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 2: there in the same dining room as white guests, and 405 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 2: reportedly might have lost his commission of that restaurant over 406 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 2: the issue. He also very famously through an integrated party 407 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 2: in his Capitol Hill home in eighteen sixty nine for 408 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 2: Ulysses S. Grant's first inauguration, with the white senators and 409 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:35,159 Speaker 2: judges and diplomats that he knew, rubbing elbows with black 410 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 2: social elites, some of the former, apparently for the first time. 411 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 2: It made a big splash in the press. George retired 412 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 2: in eighteen seventy nine, and I don't have a lot 413 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,119 Speaker 2: about what he got up to in his retirement. I 414 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:59,159 Speaker 2: imagine family stuff, hanging out in Rhode Island, stirring up 415 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 2: some good trouble. I'm not sure, but fun side fact, 416 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 2: one of his sons, Philip Bell Downing, was an inventor 417 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:12,919 Speaker 2: who helped create the USPS letter collection boxes. Like if 418 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 2: you're gonna go mail a letter and there's a blue 419 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 2: box on the sidewalk, you go put your letter in. 420 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:23,400 Speaker 2: He helped design those. Part of his design is what 421 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 2: went into the box that we still use today. He 422 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 2: also invented a mechanism that will allow a rail car 423 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 2: to operate a railway switch and thus switch tracks from 424 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,400 Speaker 2: the car's platform, like the brass arm on the cars 425 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:42,399 Speaker 2: platform that will let the car switch tracks. These were 426 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 2: both patented in the eighteen nineties. Thought it was cool. 427 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:51,479 Speaker 1: That is cool. Some people, really, they really get up 428 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: to some stuff in their life. We do. 429 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 2: Yeah. George would pass in nineteen oh three. His daughter, 430 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 2: Serena Anne Miller Washington published a short biography of him 431 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 2: in nineteen ten, which, if you're interested in reading, is 432 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 2: goes into a lot of kind of gosspey details and 433 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 2: is really fun. She ended this biography with a toast 434 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 2: that was written for George Downing for his eighty second 435 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 2: birthday in nineteen hundred. It's a little bit long, but 436 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 2: it began. Here's health to one whose heart is true 437 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 2: as steel, whose years have passed in freedom's holy cause, 438 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 2: in caring for a brother's woe, a brother's weal, in 439 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 2: fighting direful wrong and baneful laws. Here's health to one 440 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 2: who's lofty, mean and brow bespeak the noble mind, the 441 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 2: spirit proud that fearth not the tyrant bold I trow 442 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 2: that cringeth not when traders thunder loud. 443 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: That's beautiful. 444 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and today like as of February of twenty twenty six, 445 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 2: a black history organization in Rhode Island is trying to 446 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 2: raise funds to get this eight foot bronze statue of 447 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 2: George Downing constructed and installed across the street from the 448 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 2: original site of the seagert in Newport. They're going to 449 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 2: be debuting a maquette of the planned statue at this 450 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 2: oyster reception at the Newport Art Museum on February twenty eighth, 451 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 2: which is soon as we're recording this episode, along with 452 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 2: the speakers about Downing's life and the design of the statue. Listeners, 453 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, if any of you can go, I 454 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 2: think it's like fifty five bucks for a ticket, but 455 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 2: it sounds it sounds like a really nice party. 456 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: You probably won't after it. 457 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 2: You might, I mean, I don't know. I don't know 458 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 2: your life. 459 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 1: That's true. It sounds good. Though, sounds good. 460 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 2: It's time, you know. If you do a little bit 461 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 2: of crying, it's fine. But oh my goodness, no, no, no, 462 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 2: If if anyone has the opportunity to go, we would 463 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 2: so much love to hear about it. 464 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: We absolutely would, And for anybody who has any information 465 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 1: or stories that we might have missed in this. I 466 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: know you can still visit the site of the original restaurant. 467 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not like I believe the building was torn 468 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 2: down at some point, but yeah, I mean Broad, Broad 469 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 2: and Wall are just like right over there. You can 470 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 2: just yeah you can. You can go to there. 471 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, you can go to there, and then you can 472 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: tell us about it. Yeah, we would love to hear 473 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: about it. 474 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and the block the block in Rhode Island 475 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 2: as well in Newport. 476 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, yes, so please listeners, let us know. 477 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: We love hearing from you. But that is what we 478 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: have to say about the downings for now. 479 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 2: It is. We do already have some listenermail for you, though, 480 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 2: and we're going to get into that as soon as 481 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 2: we get back from one more quick break for a 482 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 2: word from our sponsors. 483 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: And we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, and 484 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 1: we're back with listen. 485 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 3: Mail. 486 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: Yes, so I was telling Lauren, this Savor email is 487 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: a little wonky right now, but I'm working on it 488 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 1: and it's fine, but a lot I didn't know, but 489 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: some of your emails were going into the junk email. 490 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: So I'm working on it. 491 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,719 Speaker 2: We do not think you're junk. Annie is working on 492 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 2: unrectifying the issue. 493 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, we think you're the best. Yeah, you're wonderful. 494 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 2: Yes. If you think that we've missed something, feel free 495 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 2: to resend. 496 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: Yes. Yes, but anyway, because of that, we're just going 497 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 1: to split this message for today while I tame the chaos. 498 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 1: But I do think it is appropriate because Lunar New 499 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 1: Year just happened. 500 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. 501 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: Happy, Yeah, I had a really good I got to 502 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: hang out with a friend and we had delicious food. 503 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 1: Oh yeah yes, so uh I thought we would just 504 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: share this email. Jane wrote, Hello, I've never tried Taiwanese 505 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: pineapple cakes, but they sounded lovely, And while listening to 506 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,719 Speaker 1: the episode, I remembered that I had a couple of 507 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: only slightly expired cans of crushed pineapple in my cold 508 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,239 Speaker 1: room and thought, why not I used a recipe from 509 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 1: the Food Network. I selected that recipe in particular because 510 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 1: I had most of the ingredients. The exception was custard powder, 511 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: but the Internet saved me again with instructions on how 512 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 1: to make it from ingredients that I did have on hand. 513 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 1: Who knew it was just two hundred and fifty milliliters 514 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 1: of skimmed milk powder sifted with one hundred and twenty 515 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 1: five milliliters of corn starch. 516 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,719 Speaker 2: Jane continues Anyway, I made the pineapple filling, which was easy, 517 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 2: and when it was completely chilled, I made the pastry, 518 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 2: also very easy. Putting them together was more challenging. The 519 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 2: pastry from this recipe is very short and kept cracking 520 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 2: as I tried to fold it around the filling. I 521 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 2: didn't have the traditional square mold, so I put them 522 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 2: in muffin tins, but I couldn't squash them without breaking 523 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 2: open the pastry. It's not like they rise much or anything. 524 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 2: I could have just put them on a cookie sheet. 525 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure the tins are just so you can 526 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,960 Speaker 2: press them into a decorative shape. They may not be 527 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 2: as pretty as the one I saw online, but they 528 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 2: are delicious and I'll definitely make them again. I'm interested 529 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 2: to try the same recipe with some other kind of 530 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:12,359 Speaker 2: fruit filling. Rhubarb might be nice, Oh, rubarb, Yes, Oh, 531 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 2: I love a rhubarb. 532 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 1: I think rubarb would. 533 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,839 Speaker 2: Be nice and yes, included as a photograph. And they 534 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 2: are not the most decorative pastries I've ever seen, but 535 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 2: all the time I am. I am a it doesn't 536 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 2: look pretty, but eat it. It's great kind of cook 537 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 2: So I really feel that. 538 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: Oh I'm the same. If the taste is good, I 539 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: get why you want the presentation angle. 540 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 2: Oh of course I love a human who's capable of 541 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:43,840 Speaker 2: a nice presentation. 542 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 1: But I'm like, that's not me. Sorry, it's not me either. 543 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 1: And sometimes I'm just you know what, I made this. 544 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 1: The taste is good, let's go. That's it. That's all 545 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,919 Speaker 1: I need. Yeah. Yeah, but I I love hearing this 546 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 1: when listeners listen to an episode try to make the thing. 547 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,720 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, that's so cool. 548 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, absolutely nothing wrong with slightly expired cans of 549 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 2: crushed pineapple. 550 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:20,400 Speaker 1: No. Also, I love that I've never heard of custard potters. 551 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,360 Speaker 2: This is a very this is a very European ingredient. 552 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 1: I'm glad that the Internet was able to give you 553 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,479 Speaker 1: a substitute that works. Yeah. 554 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, the oh gosh, I guess. I guess the vague 555 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,320 Speaker 2: equivalent in the US would be like like instant pudding. 556 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:48,719 Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah, I can see that. Yeah yeah, and right, 557 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 2: and like a nice home corn starch pudding recipe which 558 00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:00,360 Speaker 2: I've used recently as I have a dear family friend 559 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 2: who cannot have dairy or eggs or gluten and always 560 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 2: asks me to bring the dessert. And I'm like, that's 561 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 2: what dessert is made of. That's what dessert is made of. 562 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 2: I don't know what to do for. 563 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,279 Speaker 1: You, but. 564 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:23,240 Speaker 2: A nice corn starch pudding with a dairy free milk 565 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 2: absolutely works. So that's something I'm very familiar with. Right now. 566 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 1: I'm glad. 567 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 2: I'm glad the internet. Yes, exactly what, and he said 568 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:35,280 Speaker 2: glad the internet came through. 569 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and very very happy that this worked out 570 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 1: and that you now have future aspirations for perhaps rubarb. 571 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: I think that would be fantastic. 572 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh goodness. I always feel free to send us 573 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 2: photographs of pies. 574 00:36:55,239 --> 00:37:00,760 Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, and just update this. We always were. We're 575 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 1: like keeping tabs on your life in the non creepy way. 576 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, in the first friendly way. 577 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:15,319 Speaker 1: Yeah. I just like hearing updates on what projects people are, yeah. 578 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,759 Speaker 2: Or otherwise up to man, it's getting to be springtime 579 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:19,280 Speaker 2: if anyone is starting a garden. 580 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:26,279 Speaker 1: Yes, oh, I got really excited by that idea. That 581 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:28,799 Speaker 1: is like my thing that I wish I had that 582 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 1: I don't. Oh, yeah, it's a garden. 583 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 2: Yeah that apart living Yeah. 584 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:41,239 Speaker 1: Vicariously through you listeners, please, oh but thank you so 585 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,399 Speaker 1: much to this listener for writing in. If you would 586 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,479 Speaker 1: like to write to us, you can our emails hello 587 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 1: at saborpod dot com. 588 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 2: We're also on social media. You can find us on 589 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 2: Blue Sky and Instagram at saber pod and we do 590 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,399 Speaker 2: hope to hear from you. Savor is a production of iHeartRadio. 591 00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:58,879 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can visit 592 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,120 Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 593 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 2: your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers 594 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 2: Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, 595 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 2: and we hope that lots more good things are coming 596 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:18,440 Speaker 2: your way