1 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: We're actually doing something a little different today. We're bringing 2 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: you a new podcast that we think you'll love. A 3 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: Kimbo is a podcast from Seth Godin, an entrepreneur, blogger, 4 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: and best selling author. At Kimbo, which is the word 5 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: I love is a show about culture and how we 6 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: can change it. Here's how one avid listener describes it. 7 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: He said, reading and listening to Seth has made such 8 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: a difference in my everyday life and work. I see 9 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 1: the world more accurately. I'm equipped to make better decisions 10 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: and enjoy what I do much more as a result 11 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: of listening to this podcast. We hope you guys feel 12 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: the same way. And so here's a Kimbo, a podcast 13 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:48,160 Speaker 1: from Seth Godin, a new podcast. Cool. Who's the first guest? 14 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: What are you gonna call it? No? Guests? What does 15 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: a kimbo mean? That's never gonna work. Hey, it's Seth 16 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: and this is a Kimbo. And now a word from 17 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: Zip Recruiter are presenting sponsor. What do eyebrows have to 18 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:16,479 Speaker 1: do with making the right decision? A whole lot? Actually? Hey, there, 19 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 1: I'm Ian Siegel and I'm the CEO and co founder 20 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: of zip Recruiter. The smartest way to hire. Being an 21 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: entrepreneur and owning a business has been a dream of 22 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: mine since I was a kid, and I've learned a 23 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: lot of interesting things while turning that dream into a reality, 24 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: like how to tell if your big idea is really 25 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,319 Speaker 1: a big idea. Hint, it involves eyebrows. More on that 26 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: later in the show. I found a zipp recruiter because 27 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: I knew there was a smarter way for businesses to 28 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: find talent. Today, companies of all sizes and industries use 29 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: zip recruiter to fill their hiring needs. And if you're 30 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: hiring now, you can try zip recruiter for free at 31 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: zip recruiter dot com. Slash seth of employers who post 32 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: on zip recruiter get a quality candidate through the site 33 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: and just one day. So try it for free at 34 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: zip recruiter dot com slash seth. See you later in 35 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: the show. The Lions have a wonderful phrase salto mortale, 36 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:09,079 Speaker 1: the dangerous leap, the leap into the void. That fear 37 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 1: we get in the pit of our stomach just before 38 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: we commit, that fear that it's not going to work out. 39 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 1: It's too soon, I'm not ready, And so we wait, 40 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: but some people some people don't wait. Carl Benz, when 41 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: he launched the car, did it in Germany where it 42 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: was against the law to drive a car and there 43 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,959 Speaker 1: were no passable roads and there were no gas stations. 44 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: He should have waited. Guttenberg, pioneer of movable type, launched 45 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: the book when there were no bookstores and when no 46 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: one knew how to read, and when reading glasses were 47 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: required but hadn't been invented yet. He should have waited. Internally, 48 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: there's constant pressure to hesitate, to hold back, not to launch, 49 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: to find flaws, to give ourselves one more chance. But 50 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: recently we made it worse. We made it worse because 51 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: in all capital letters we added launch big, that you 52 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: need a grand opening, that if you can't have a 53 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: home run, you shouldn't even try. I blame it on 54 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: Gill again, on The Brady Bunch and on the Beverly Hillbillies. 55 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: It goes all the way from there to the Odd Couple, 56 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 1: all the sitcoms we grew up with the Flintstones, which 57 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: are sort of like the Honeymooners, but in prehistoric times. 58 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: The Brady Bunch. Here's the story of a lovely lady 59 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 1: all these shows had a lot in common. One of 60 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: them was this. The first forty five to sixty seconds 61 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: was a theme song that explained in detail the entire 62 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: storyline of the show. Even though the show after commercials 63 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: was only twenty four minutes long, the network insisted that 64 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: they spend a minute to catch everybody up. That makes 65 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: no sense. Why would you do that? So it's a mystery? 66 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: Then why invest so much of this precious time in 67 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: repeating a long theme song to make sure that no 68 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: one was confused? Well, it's not that much of a 69 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 1: mystery if you understand that before the internet and cable 70 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: there were only three t V channels. Half the country 71 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: was watching three channels, and if people switched from one 72 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 1: to the other, you'd lose them maybe forever the show 73 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 1: was live. That was it, once and done, And so 74 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: you got conservative because you needed the grand opening, the 75 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 1: big wind every time. Where did this idea come from? 76 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 1: Because it doesn't line up with the way that civilization 77 00:04:55,520 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 1: evolved for a really long time. If you bought some thing, 78 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 1: you were buying it from someone that you already knew. 79 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: The people in the village were the people in the village, 80 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:12,039 Speaker 1: the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker. They didn't need 81 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 1: a hype man and advanced man. They didn't need somebody 82 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: pushing for the big grand opening. They were there yesterday 83 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: and they were going to be there tomorrow. I think 84 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: it's worth understanding it came from the carnival, from the 85 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: traveling salesman, from the medicine man, from the people going 86 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 1: village to village. They'd send their hype man up front, 87 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: their advanced man. They knew they only had one day, 88 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: two days, four days to make the sale, and then 89 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,359 Speaker 1: they were leaving town again. If you blew it it 90 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: was live, you weren't going to get another chance. And 91 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: so the grand opening, and so the need to pigeonhole yourself, 92 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: the need to get it right the first time, to 93 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: go big or to stay home. The carnys, the guys 94 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 1: in the carnival called it a valley. The valley was 95 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: the stick, the theme song, the thing you'd say over 96 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 1: and over again to make sure that every single time 97 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 1: you're interactive with somebody you could make the sale. Here's 98 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: one from a bunch of years ago, trying to get 99 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: people to go in and see the Piranhas. Get your 100 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: tickets and come in killers of the Amazon, can devour 101 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: a cow in a matter of seconds, can leave nothing 102 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: but the bare bones. First time shown in your city, 103 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 1: and you may never have the chance to see it again, alive, alive, alive. 104 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: As you can see, the goal isn't to edify, to educate, 105 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:46,679 Speaker 1: to create an environment that you're gonna come back again 106 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: and again. The goal is to take your money and 107 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: then leave town. And this idea that we've got to 108 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:58,039 Speaker 1: be in a hurry spread from that to the mass 109 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 1: marketing of TV to the movies. It used to be 110 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,559 Speaker 1: that a movie could run for three months, six months, 111 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: nine months in the theaters before it went away, usually forever. 112 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: But then TV came along and TV advertising, and what 113 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: the movie studio has figured out was that they had 114 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: a chance using TV to have really big opening weekends, 115 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: and so they spent a fortune on Thursday nights advertising 116 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: movies so that people would see him on the weekend. 117 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: What they discovered was that giving away all the attractions 118 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: in the TV ad and more important, making a movie 119 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: that lent itself to TV advertising didn't lead to movies 120 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: that we're going to play in the theaters for months, 121 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: three days, ten days, twenty days gone and so the 122 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: same thing happened that happened to TV. We need to 123 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: hype it, we need to promo it. We don't have 124 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,679 Speaker 1: very much time. We want to reach the largest number 125 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: of people. Let's fast for or just a little bit 126 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: more to kickstarter, which I think should be called kick finisher. 127 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: The reason it ought to be called kick finisher is 128 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: that in order to make a kickstarter succeed, except for 129 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: the obvious edge cases, the random one in ten thousand, 130 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: to get lucky, someone how to get lucky, in order 131 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: to have a kickstarter succeed, you need to begin with 132 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: a following. You need to begin with people who trust you. 133 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: A kickstarter is the end of a multi month or 134 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: multi year effort to earn trust and attention. It's not 135 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 1: a grand opening, it's a grand ending that what you 136 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: get to do when you make a successful kickstarter is 137 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 1: go to people, the edge cases, the loyal ones, the 138 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: true fans. Go to those people and say I'm ready 139 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: for you. Now we're doing a kickstarter. Those kickstarters always 140 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: work if you have a sufficient follow before you begin, 141 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: they always work. So it's not a lottery. It's not 142 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: a chance to grab a brass ring. That a is 143 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 1: Kevin Kelly has pointed out one thousand true fans is 144 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: sufficient to make it as creative person one people who 145 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: will listen to you, who will pay you, who will 146 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: show up, who care about you, who would miss you 147 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 1: if you are gone? Only a thousand. So let's compare 148 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: that to the grand opening, thinking of I need ten 149 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: million people to watch this TV show or doesn't work. 150 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 1: That's a ten thousand x difference. You don't need to 151 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: play that game. You can play your game. And your 152 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: game is slow and steady, daring, risky, thrilling, but slow 153 00:09:54,800 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 1: and steady because the goal isn't to hype your way 154 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: with an advance man using a bally day after day 155 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: to get one more rube to give you a dollar 156 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 1: to see your piranha. Now you're playing a different game. 157 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 1: And game we're playing doesn't need a grand opening. It 158 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 1: he's grand finishing. There must be an alternative. How did 159 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: Wikipedia grow without a grand opening? What about Harry Potter 160 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: or The Martian? What about fifty Shades of Gray or 161 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:34,079 Speaker 1: Microsoft or Kiva or the Union Square Cafe. The list 162 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 1: goes on and on. Most of the brands, most of 163 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: the organizations that we care about, they didn't have a 164 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: grand opening. They didn't have a hype man, they didn't 165 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: launch with a bang. There must be another way. The 166 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 1: alternative is called first ten. Everyone knows ten people. Everyone 167 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: has ten people who will listen to them. Tell ten 168 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: people see what happens. If those people tell others, the 169 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 1: word will spread. If they don't make better work, take 170 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: your novel, send it to forty people. Forty people who 171 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: trust you and like you, see what happens. Maybe they'll 172 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: share it. If they share, it will spread. If it spreads, 173 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 1: it'll reach more people. Sooner or later, someone will reach 174 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,839 Speaker 1: out to you and ask you to write something else. 175 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: First ten, ten, by ten, by ten, you put an 176 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: idea in the world, not to everyone in the world, 177 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:35,439 Speaker 1: just the people who want to hear it, and then 178 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 1: maybe it spreads, and if it spreads, it grows, and 179 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: if it grows, you get to do it again. Almost 180 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: twenty years ago, I was at a conference. There were 181 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,439 Speaker 1: some cool people there and we were going around the 182 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: circle introducing each other, and the guy says, yeah, my 183 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 1: name is Sergey and I have this little search engine 184 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: called Google. And at the time a lot of people 185 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 1: knew about Google, but it wasn't the worldwide phenomenon we 186 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 1: know today. And then he said something profound. He said, 187 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: we don't do any outbound marketing promotion or hype. And 188 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: let me tell you why. We figure that one day 189 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: everyone will use Google. And we also know that every 190 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:23,359 Speaker 1: day Google gets better. And since we're getting better every day, 191 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,439 Speaker 1: we're in no hurry to have people use it for 192 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,680 Speaker 1: the first time, because tomorrow or the day after that 193 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: is soon enough, because it'll be better, they'll have a 194 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: better first impression. We're in no hurry. Instead, we're going 195 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 1: to make the best thing that we know how to 196 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:43,679 Speaker 1: make and wait for people to tell others. But it's 197 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:48,119 Speaker 1: not just digital stuff. There was a little tiny restaurant 198 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: in the East Village of Manhattan years ago called Momofuko. 199 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: No one had ever heard of it. You could walk 200 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 1: in any time. This guy named David Chang, sort of crazy, 201 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: had a little counter and a bunch of tables, and 202 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: my family and I used to go there sometimes for 203 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: lunch on a weekend. And there are all these rules. 204 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:09,079 Speaker 1: You couldn't leave this out. No subtractions, no additions, and 205 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: eat what you eat. That's all you get. But what 206 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: happened day by day is the word spread. It got 207 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:18,679 Speaker 1: to the point, as Yogi Barras said, where no one 208 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: goes there because it's so crowded, and it turned into 209 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:27,439 Speaker 1: an entire empire. Or consider the amazing podcast Invisible from 210 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: Roman Mars. How did you hear about it? Did you 211 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: hear about it from those Super Bowl ads they ran? 212 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:37,680 Speaker 1: Of course not. There were dozens and dozens of episodes 213 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 1: of Invisible before you heard about it, because Roman took 214 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: the same approach. How do I make something for a few, 215 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: something special, something it's really hard to pigeonhole something new. 216 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 1: Or consider a piece of software like Dropbox. I don't 217 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:59,079 Speaker 1: recall ever seeing an ad for Dropbox until just recently. Instead, 218 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: what Dropbox did was build a service that was important 219 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: to share, not just to talk about it, but to 220 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: use it with other people. Or my friend Jill Greenberg, 221 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: one of the most talented and well known photographers in 222 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: the world. How did Jill get there? She didn't get 223 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: there by being picked by somebody to push her to 224 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: the masses. She got there by making quirky art, by saying, 225 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: I don't shoot pictures like everybody else, I shoot pictures 226 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: like me, and so her photographs are distinctive. They don't 227 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: fit in early on, lots and lots of people didn't 228 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: buy the photographs she wanted to sell to them, the magazines, 229 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: the commercial shoots that she needed. No, she was too 230 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: far out there for the masses to adopt. So she 231 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: needed a smart thing. She didn't complain or conform. Instead, 232 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: she made something the masses didn't want. She made something 233 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: for the early adopters. She refused to pigeonhole it. She 234 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: didn't have to hype it because the early adopters they're 235 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: looking for something on the edge, and she had something 236 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: on the edge. And then of course it spreads, right. 237 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 1: The first thing that happens is the art director says, 238 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: get me Jill Greenberg. And then of course the art 239 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: director says, get me someone who looks like Jill Greenberg, 240 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: and then you know you've made it. So the goal here, 241 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: when we are making our best work, the work we 242 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: seek to make, is not to listen to the people 243 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: in the middle of the curve, because the people in 244 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: the middle of the curve aren't listening to us. The 245 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: goal is not the Flintstones or the Brady Bunch or 246 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: the Beverly Hillbillies. The goal is to go to the fringe, 247 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: to the edge to the people who are listening, to 248 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: the people who care, not with a bally, but with 249 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: something real, to invite them in and to tell them 250 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: something that they didn't know before, to bring them something 251 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: that's a little more complicated than an NBC executive would 252 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: have gone for, to take them on a journey from 253 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: here to there, not with a grand opening, but with 254 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: a small opening, with a whisper here. I made this, here, 255 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:30,239 Speaker 1: I made this. That's our work. After the break, some questions, 256 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: questions for me, how we're going to do that? And 257 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 1: then a question for you. Hi again, this is I 258 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 1: and Seagull, CEO and co founder of zip Recruiter, The 259 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: Smartest Way to Hire. So you have a big idea, 260 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 1: how do you know if it's ready for the big time. 261 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: It's difficult to get honest feedback about a new business idea. 262 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: A lot of people will tell you what you want 263 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: to hear. That's why I encourage what I call the 264 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: eyebrow test. Here's how you do it. Describe your business 265 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: to someone in one paragraph or less, but the whole 266 00:16:58,080 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: time I want you to stare at their eyebrows while 267 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: you're talking and pretty much ignore the words that are 268 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: coming out of their mouth. We all have an almost 269 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: uncontrollable reaction. When we like something, our eyebrows go up. 270 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: When we don't like what we're hearing, eyebrows scrunch. Eyebrows 271 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: never lie. If you aren't regularly seeing raised eyebrows, your 272 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: idea isn't ready. That's the importance of eyebrows. I hope 273 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: you found it helpful. Here's something else that may be helpful. 274 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: If you're hiring. You can try zippercruter for free today. 275 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 1: Zippercruters helped businesses of all sizes and across all industries 276 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: hire great people. In fact, eight percent of employers who 277 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: use zip recruiter find a quality candidate through the site 278 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: and just one day. Just go to zippercruter dot com 279 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: slash seth that zippercruter dot com slash seth. Thanks for 280 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: listening and see you on the next episode. Alright, questions, 281 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: This is the first episode, so I don't have your 282 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: questions yet about episode zero because there wasn't an episode zero. Instead, 283 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: we're teeing you guys up to give me feedback and 284 00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 1: questions about this episode, which I'll answer next time. If 285 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 1: you want to give us a question, just visit a 286 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,880 Speaker 1: Kimbo dot link and click the appropriate button. And while 287 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: we're waiting to hear from you, here's a question for 288 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:14,360 Speaker 1: you and your team. How would it be different if 289 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 1: you weren't in the hype business, if you weren't focused 290 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: on Hoopla and the ratings and how many likes you 291 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: have right this minute? How would you build your product, 292 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,919 Speaker 1: or your service or your cause if your goal was 293 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: to make it deeper and more elegant, if complexity wasn't 294 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 1: a challenge it was a goal. What would happen if 295 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:42,199 Speaker 1: instead of seeking to make noise, you decided to do 296 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 1: something that mattered instead. If you want to submit a question, 297 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: just visit a Kimbo dot link a k I M 298 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: B O dot l I n K and click on 299 00:18:54,600 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: the appropriate button. See you next time. What are people 300 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:04,679 Speaker 1: saying about the Alto m b A. I just needed something, 301 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: something more, a way to level myself up and find 302 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 1: other kind of connection. Really, Beachell, Maybe I operated for 303 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,159 Speaker 1: ten years in my life and this is what was 304 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: my best space. But then in all Temba, you learned 305 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 1: what was your best on Monday. It's going to be 306 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:19,159 Speaker 1: better on Tuesday night, and you're going to do it 307 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,640 Speaker 1: in a space where everyone cares about you so much 308 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 1: that they're not going to let you off the hook 309 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: al Temba. In fact, it's not a course, it's a workshop. 310 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: It's one month in which a professional coming from all 311 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: of the globe can work with one hundred other professionals 312 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: that will make you a better leader. Not enough time. 313 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: We know it's not enough time. Do it anyway. Some 314 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,160 Speaker 1: of people want to self edit, They want to say 315 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 1: I have writer's blog, all these excuses basically, and so 316 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: this is just an exercise and getting out of your 317 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: own way and also collaboration. It's more about how you 318 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: think what you're willing to offer yourself and the group. 319 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: I have a clearer vision with my company and who 320 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: I'm trying to build it for, really having a lot 321 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: of skills to speak more confidently about who I wanted 322 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 1: to be in where I wanted to go. Find out 323 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:08,439 Speaker 1: more at alt NBA dot com. It's a simple question, really, 324 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: but I think it helps us understand so much of 325 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: the world around us. The question who eats first, whether 326 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: you're a wild animal, a b or a human, status 327 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 1: folds matter. Hey, it's seth and this is a Kimbo 328 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: and now a word from zip Recruiter are presenting sponsor. 329 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:40,880 Speaker 1: When it comes to hiring, we can learn a lot 330 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 1: from vikings Hi. I'm Ian Siegel, and I'm the CEO 331 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: and co founder of zipp Recruiter, The Smartest way to hire. 332 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: Being an entrepreneur and owning a business has been a 333 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: dream of mine since I was a kid, and I've 334 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 1: learned a lot of interesting things while turning that dream 335 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: into a reality, like why talking like a Viking can 336 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 1: be helpful when you're hiring. More on that later. I 337 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: founded zipp Recruiter because I knew there was a simpler, 338 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: more efficient, and more effective way for people to find 339 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: jobs that they love and for businesses to find fantastic employees. 340 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,160 Speaker 1: And if you're hiring now, you can try zipp recruiter 341 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 1: for free at zipp recruiter dot com slash seth. Employers 342 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: who post on zipp recruiter get a quality candidate through 343 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,439 Speaker 1: the site and just one day. So try it for 344 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: free at zipp recruiter dot com slash seth. See you 345 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: later in the show Baxter Hates Truman. Baxter's my dog, 346 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: great dog from the shelter. He was about sixty pounds. 347 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: He gets along with all the other dogs except for Truman. 348 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: Truman's the wonderful German shepherd who lives across the street, 349 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: Proud Legal, a few years older than Baxter, and they 350 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: hate each other. And the reason, I think is it's 351 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: not clear who gets the first, who's the alpha, who's 352 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: in charge. When I was in fifth grade, I ran 353 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 1: for president of the Safety Patrol and I lost. And 354 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,919 Speaker 1: the ninth and ten and eleven and twelfth grade I 355 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: ran for student council president and I lost. My senior year, 356 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 1: I had the best signs. I put myself out there 357 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 1: and I lost. I got to college and I ran 358 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 1: for dorm rep unopposed, and I lost. I don't think 359 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: the question is why I kept losing. I kept losing 360 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 1: because people weren't voting for me. They didn't see me 361 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 1: for how I saw myself. The interesting question is why 362 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: did I keep running? So let's begin with business cards. 363 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: Joel Bauer has made a famous meme on the internet 364 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,680 Speaker 1: about your business card. You see a business card, cheap 365 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: strath more stock holds a crease and the best riff. 366 00:22:55,200 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: In the movie American Psycho is about some insecure people comparing, 367 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: of all things, their business cards. Look at that subtle 368 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 1: love way coloring, a tasteful thickness of it. Oh my god, 369 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: it even has a watermark. Why do business cards even matter? 370 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 1: How can this little piece of paper somehow be construed 371 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: as a representation of who we are? And why do 372 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: we care? Well, if we think about the Godfather, we 373 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 1: can start to understand how status rolls are portrayed in 374 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: the media and how we internalize them and believe them. 375 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 1: In the opening scene of The Godfather Borno Sarah, the Undertaker, 376 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 1: the lowest status person in the community, pounds balding wearing 377 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: a nondescript suit. The Undertaker comes to see the Godfather. 378 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,880 Speaker 1: The day he chooses is the day of the Godfather's 379 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: daughter's wedding, says Billion. Tradition, according to the movie, is 380 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 1: that the Godfather cannot refuse a favor asked of him 381 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: on this special day. So in this moment, the Godfather 382 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 1: is vulnerable. He's vulnerable because his status can be questioned. 383 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: The Undertaker comes to him and asks him to perform 384 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 1: violence on some men who have hurt his daughter. The Godfather, 385 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 1: Marlon Brando, turns to Bonus Saran sais he cannot do it, 386 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: of course, because if he did, it would make him 387 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 1: nothing but a hired thug. Bonus, Sarah raises the stakes 388 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 1: he offers to pay the Godfather, which of course is 389 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 1: an insult. It turns him from a mere hired thug 390 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 1: to a hired thug who's just doing it for the money. 391 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 1: And in that moment where the status rolls of the 392 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 1: high status, status seeking Godfather is threatened by the low 393 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 1: status undertaker, we see writ large something that's been going 394 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: on for millennia. We understand the relationship between Baxter and 395 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 1: Truman because it turns out that throughout the animal kingdom, 396 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: including an especially humans, status roles matter. Just about everything 397 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 1: you will ever see in a movie theater or a theater, 398 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 1: or read about in a novel is about status roles. 399 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:39,120 Speaker 1: The movie Trading Places is about status roles. The sitcoms 400 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 1: of the sixties, the comedies of the eighties, the thrillers 401 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: that we see today, they're all about who's moving up, 402 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 1: who's moving down. But of course it happens in real life, 403 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 1: and of course it doesn't have anything to do with money. 404 00:25:55,000 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 1: Think about that meditation weekend, nothing but spirituality. Except some 405 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: people at the weekend, our friends with the instructor, so 406 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: they have a little bit more status. And of course 407 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 1: the guest instructor is wearing a special outfit and sitting 408 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: in a special chair, so he has a little bit 409 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:22,399 Speaker 1: more status. Tribes, these informal groups of people that we 410 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: are all part of, demand status roles because it's a 411 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 1: form of governance who's up and who's down. And capitalism 412 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 1: requires status roles because it gets people to work even 413 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: after they have enough. That the ability to be able 414 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: to say I might not have everything, but I have 415 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: more than you is buried deep within our culture that 416 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: what we have done is built layer after layer after 417 00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: layer in commerce and in community based around our roles, 418 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: our status, our business card are standing in the community, 419 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: those Laberton shoes that she's wearing, that Birken bag, who's 420 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,159 Speaker 1: sitting at the cool table at lunch, who's the head 421 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: of the football team or the cheerleading squad or the 422 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: student council, that we repeatedly look at other people and 423 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:30,199 Speaker 1: decide where we stand. And what marketers have done is 424 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,919 Speaker 1: run with this. What politicians have done is run with 425 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: this because we understand that deep down human beings care 426 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 1: about it. Keith Johnstone in his brilliant book. Impro spends 427 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: the first third of the book talking about how theater 428 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: is nothing but this exchange of status rolls. Professional wrestling 429 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,919 Speaker 1: is nothing but an exchange of status rolls. Nursery school 430 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,160 Speaker 1: is status roles. Who gets to play with the blocks? 431 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,679 Speaker 1: Is it the kid who's the biggest? How do we 432 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 1: treat somebody who's wearing a cute outfit versus one who isn't. 433 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 1: How are we looking and juxtaposing who has status and 434 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 1: who doesn't, and which status matters. If you had a 435 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: chance to watch the videos of Donald Trump shaking hands 436 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: with various world leaders, what you see is an ancient ritual, 437 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:37,159 Speaker 1: a battle for supremacy in something as absurd as a handshake. 438 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: And when a policeman pulls you over for speeding, in 439 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: that exchange at the window of your car will be 440 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: a debate about status roles. Are you going to play 441 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 1: low and let the policeman play high? Are you going 442 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: to take umbrage and say don't you know who I 443 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: am and try to get the policeman to play low. 444 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 1: We're not on the savannah anymore. We're not lions or 445 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 1: hippo's deciding who gets the eat first and who just 446 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: gets the scraps, and yet certainly seems that way. Four 447 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: old friends who haven't seen each other in a while 448 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: get together over lunch. The first one, beaming, pulls out 449 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: his iPhone X, brand new, the most profitable consumer product 450 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: ever created. The iPhone hasn't offered much new in the 451 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: way of functionality in five years, but people keep buying 452 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: the new one, and he knows why, putting it on 453 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: the table. Gingerly, he's moved up in status. His friend 454 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: to the left pulls out his pixel phone from Google 455 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: Android based a way of showing he's smarter than his friend. 456 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: He bought something with more power, not to be outdone. 457 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: The third friend pulls out a waterproof flip phone twelve 458 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: years old. Doesn't matter, He's all about the functionality. The 459 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 1: fourth friend, though the status of no status, doesn't have 460 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 1: a phone at all, doesn't need a phone. His admin 461 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: will take care of it. And around the circle we go. 462 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: How do we keep it running in a society as 463 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: rich as ours, with so many resources available? How do 464 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: we keep it going? How do we keep making people 465 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 1: upset and frustrated when they don't have enough status? How 466 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: do we get people to work all night even though 467 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: they have enough to earn more status. How do we 468 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: create life and death situations? How do we push people 469 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 1: to go into debt for status? While it turns out 470 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: that shame, shame that basic human emotion, one of the 471 00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:01,959 Speaker 1: top six emotions that people experience. You know, you've got happiness, 472 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: you've got fear, and then right up there is shame. 473 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 1: Shame is the status enforcer. That what we have done 474 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: is orchestrate a culture where if you are surrounded by 475 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 1: people with more status than you, or if you believe 476 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: that they have more status than you, we've instructed you 477 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: to feel shame. And we hate shame. Shames the deal killer. 478 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,239 Speaker 1: Shame undermines all of the things that we seek to have. 479 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 1: So to avoid shame, we make bad decisions. We make 480 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 1: decisions that honor marketers or those that would manipulate us 481 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: as opposed to doing what's best for us and the 482 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: people around us. And it's important that we learned to 483 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: see it that. Once you see it, once you see 484 00:31:54,520 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: how this juxtaposition between status and shame is you over 485 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 1: and over again, you can see how you're being manipulated, 486 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: manipulated to vote, manipulated to work, manipulated to purchase. That 487 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 1: status all by itself has no real value outside of 488 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,719 Speaker 1: an arena where someone's trying to take something from us. 489 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 1: That the rest of the time, it's in our head. 490 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: It's the story we are telling ourselves about our worth, 491 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: about our business card, about how we are being judged. 492 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: As always there's insight from the good doctor Dr Seuss. 493 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: In Eural the turtle, turtles, more turtles, he bellowed and braid, 494 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: And the turtles way down in the pond were afraid. 495 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 1: They trembled, they shook, but they came. They obeyed. From 496 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 1: all over the pond. They came, swimming by dozens, whole 497 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 1: families of turtles, with uncles and cousins, and all of 498 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: them stepped on the head of poor Mac. One after another. 499 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: They climbed up the stack. What marketers have learned is 500 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: that the shame engine, the tribal shame engine, won't stop working. 501 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: All they have to do is highlighted, press on it gently, 502 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 1: sometimes with an anvil, but often gently, and remind us 503 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: that we don't want to be at the bottom of 504 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: the pile. They remind us with images and offers and 505 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 1: sales that if we don't respond, we're going to have 506 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,720 Speaker 1: to deal with shame and it's all in our head. 507 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: Consider the market for luxury goods last year. It was 508 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: more than thirty billion dollars spent worldwide to buy things 509 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 1: that were more expensive and probably a little bit nicer 510 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 1: than we needed. Lugging or perfume or shoes. The list 511 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 1: goes on and on. It turns out the industry was 512 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:10,240 Speaker 1: invented by one man named Colbert in France. He worked 513 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: for the king. The French had a problem, which is 514 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: they weren't doing very well as imperialists. Spain and England 515 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: were colonizing other countries, building markets, gaining raw materials better 516 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,239 Speaker 1: than the French were. So Colbert put in place a 517 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 1: ratchet away to raise more taxes for the king and 518 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: to build export markets. And the idea was that they 519 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 1: would bless certain industries, give them protections and support, and 520 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 1: thus France became the leader in things like lace and 521 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 1: leather goods. They figured out how to make things better 522 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 1: than they needed to be so that people who wanted 523 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:57,399 Speaker 1: to demonstrate their status could spend extra money and gain 524 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 1: a symbol that would allow them to do this, and 525 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 1: hundreds of years later it continues, the race for more status, 526 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 1: not more than anyone in the world, just more than 527 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 1: people in your circle, continues, and the digital world makes 528 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:18,400 Speaker 1: it even easier to play the game that Instagram and 529 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 1: Snap and Facebook give each one of us a stage, 530 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 1: a stage to prance on and show our status, to 531 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 1: humble brag our way into showing that we're just a 532 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 1: little bit better than the people around us, or if 533 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,400 Speaker 1: we choose a place to go to feel badly about ourselves, 534 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 1: to experience shame because somebody else is moving up while 535 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:46,320 Speaker 1: we are moving down these networks, and they're busy calling 536 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,879 Speaker 1: people around your friends even though you don't even know them. 537 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: Have figured out how to digitize, how to enumerate, how 538 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 1: to rank, how to create a game where we are 539 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:02,359 Speaker 1: all the players, but we're not the customers. We are 540 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 1: the product. Where the product so that someone else, the advertiser, 541 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 1: can pay money to reach us, And the thing that 542 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 1: they are extracting from us is our attention. We give 543 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:19,400 Speaker 1: our attention in exchange for avoiding the shame of feeling 544 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: like we are falling behind in status. So like the Godfather, 545 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 1: like the person at the meditation retreat, like the person 546 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,320 Speaker 1: who's figuring out what shoes to wear to today's meeting 547 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 1: or wondering whether our business card is good enough or not. 548 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,719 Speaker 1: We're all captive on this merry go round, a carousel, 549 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 1: around and around and around, playing a status game where 550 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 1: some people are using status to extract behavior from us, 551 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 1: and other people are busy trying to gain status so 552 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 1: in their mind they can win. So what to do 553 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 1: about it? Well, two things. First of all, if you're 554 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 1: trying to do something important, something beneficial, something good, if 555 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,399 Speaker 1: you're trying to get someone to adopt a different way 556 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: of being, I think it's worth paying attention to the 557 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 1: status of the people you are working with and the 558 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: changes that you are offering, because when your change promises 559 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,920 Speaker 1: to move someone's status up, they are way more likely 560 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: to listen to you. That status roles inform every decision 561 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,279 Speaker 1: that we make, and if you're trying to sell an 562 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,919 Speaker 1: idea to someone, you need to be aware of them. 563 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 1: But what if you're on the other end of the equation, 564 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 1: What if there's a long history of status roles being 565 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: used against you, Well, one more time, we can go 566 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 1: back to the good Doctor Dr Seuss at the end 567 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,799 Speaker 1: of your the Turtle and today the great Yurdle, that 568 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 1: marvelous he is king of the mud. That's all he 569 00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:59,360 Speaker 1: can see. And the turtles. Of course, all the turtles 570 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:04,600 Speaker 1: are free as turtles, and maybe all creatures should be. 571 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: Interesting things happened when we start tweaking status rolls. The 572 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,799 Speaker 1: Union Square Hospitality Group is a chain of restaurants high 573 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:18,920 Speaker 1: end restaurants in New York City. A couple of years ago, 574 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:23,479 Speaker 1: they decided to do away with tipping and instead add 575 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,880 Speaker 1: a service charge to every bill. They did this for 576 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:30,319 Speaker 1: a few reasons. One reason is that by law, the 577 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,279 Speaker 1: people on the back of the house, the people who 578 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,920 Speaker 1: cooked the food, aren't allowed to take a share of 579 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,279 Speaker 1: the tips. So what was happening was there was a 580 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 1: huge gulf between how much some people were paid and 581 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 1: how much others were paid. By adding a service charge, 582 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,759 Speaker 1: they were able to treat everyone on the team as 583 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:55,080 Speaker 1: a professional. And what they discovered was it it shifted 584 00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 1: and shifted the posture of the people in the back 585 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 1: who were paid more fairly, but also changed the way 586 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 1: the service staff acted instead of it being a sexist 587 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:10,440 Speaker 1: or racist lottery where how much you were going to 588 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,719 Speaker 1: get at the end of a meal was based on 589 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,640 Speaker 1: the whim of a diner and how he or she 590 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:20,439 Speaker 1: was dealing with their own narrative about status. The people 591 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 1: in the front of the house were able to act 592 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:26,880 Speaker 1: like every other professional in a field, getting paid fairly 593 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,520 Speaker 1: for what they did and doing their best possible work. 594 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,120 Speaker 1: It's interesting to note that some of the customers are 595 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:40,120 Speaker 1: uncomfortable with this. That having tipping be taken away from 596 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:44,759 Speaker 1: their discretion doesn't change the service experience, but it very 597 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,960 Speaker 1: much changes the status experience. That if in our head 598 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:53,879 Speaker 1: we believe that our status role is impacted by our 599 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:58,279 Speaker 1: ability to leave or not leave a tip, by what 600 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:02,080 Speaker 1: our compatriots see do when we leave a tip, then 601 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 1: part of the experience of going to a restaurant has shifted. 602 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:09,600 Speaker 1: It's fascinating to watch an experiment like this unfold because 603 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:14,000 Speaker 1: each of the parties involved is shifting their experience of status, 604 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:19,760 Speaker 1: often for the better. After the break, I'll be back 605 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,759 Speaker 1: with answers to the questions you submitted from the last episode. 606 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,840 Speaker 1: If you have a question about this one, please visit 607 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:33,080 Speaker 1: a Kimbo dot link and press the appropriate button. Hi again, 608 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,160 Speaker 1: this is Ian Seagull, CEO and co founder of zip Recruiter, 609 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 1: The Smartest Way to Hire. So here's a quick interview. 610 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,840 Speaker 1: Tip A lot of people when they're interviewing a candidate, 611 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,239 Speaker 1: they try to make a friend, and the reality is 612 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 1: that's not a great way to figure out what it's 613 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:47,880 Speaker 1: going to be like to work with someone because everybody's 614 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,400 Speaker 1: on their best behavior. That's why my number one interview 615 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,719 Speaker 1: tip is to talk like a viking. And what do 616 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,279 Speaker 1: I mean by that, I mean be direct. If they 617 00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:57,400 Speaker 1: say something that you like, you tell them that you 618 00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,440 Speaker 1: like what they just said, and you see how they react. 619 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,640 Speaker 1: If they something you don't like, you also tell them that, 620 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:04,799 Speaker 1: and you see how they react when you give them 621 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,200 Speaker 1: feedback that some would consider to be tough to take. 622 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,440 Speaker 1: That's one of the most important reads you can get 623 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,279 Speaker 1: an interview, and it's the way to find out what 624 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,280 Speaker 1: it's like to really work with somebody. That's the importance 625 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,200 Speaker 1: of being direct. I hope you found it helpful. Here's 626 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:19,880 Speaker 1: something else that may be helpful. If you're hiring, you 627 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,239 Speaker 1: can try zippercruter for free today. Zippercruters helped businesses of 628 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,760 Speaker 1: all sizes and across all industries hire great people. In fact, 629 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 1: eighty percent of employers who use zipp recruiter find a 630 00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:31,880 Speaker 1: quality candidate through the site, and just one day. Just 631 00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,839 Speaker 1: go to zippercruter dot com slash seth. That's zippercuiter dot 632 00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,400 Speaker 1: com slash seth. Thanks for listening and see you on 633 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,799 Speaker 1: the next episode. My name is Kyle Gray, and first 634 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,000 Speaker 1: of all, I love the show and that completes my 635 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:47,560 Speaker 1: question I said. This is Paul from Huntington Beach, California. 636 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:54,960 Speaker 1: This is Caitlin tis Warm, greetings from Kurosaw and greetings 637 00:41:55,040 --> 00:42:00,080 Speaker 1: from Lithuania. Tons of questions came in last time. I 638 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,920 Speaker 1: was really gratified at all of the wonderful feedback you 639 00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:06,880 Speaker 1: shared with me about the first episode of this podcast. 640 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:11,200 Speaker 1: Thank you. Some tips for Q and A going forward. 641 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,200 Speaker 1: We're never going to be able to get to all 642 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,480 Speaker 1: the questions that you're submitting, and I apologize for that. 643 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:21,480 Speaker 1: The questions that I'll choose will tend to be specific 644 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,560 Speaker 1: about the previous episode. They'll tend to be general in 645 00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:29,040 Speaker 1: that lots of people want to hear the answer, and 646 00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:33,600 Speaker 1: they'll tend to be cogent, compressed, urgent so that they 647 00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:39,640 Speaker 1: don't ramble. Here's our first question. My question is when 648 00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,920 Speaker 1: you're doing your work, you see feedback. How do you 649 00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:47,640 Speaker 1: use this feedback both positive and negative? Feedback in a 650 00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:51,040 Speaker 1: manner that is constructive and makes your work better rather 651 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:55,239 Speaker 1: than reduce its quality. Thank you. The essence of the 652 00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:59,080 Speaker 1: thinking behind one thousand true fans is that there are 653 00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:02,200 Speaker 1: a few people who matter a lot more to the 654 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:07,360 Speaker 1: creator than other people, and that's the secret of processing feedback. 655 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,319 Speaker 1: When a critic doesn't get the joke, when they don't 656 00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:14,879 Speaker 1: understand you, when it's not what they need or want, well, 657 00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:18,080 Speaker 1: then there's nothing to be done about that. Let it go. 658 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:22,000 Speaker 1: Move on. On the other hand, when you hear from 659 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:25,359 Speaker 1: the core constituents, from the people that you're counting on, 660 00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:29,960 Speaker 1: you need to listen very carefully to that feedback, treat 661 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:36,800 Speaker 1: different people differently, being on your own and indeed building 662 00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,880 Speaker 1: something that will spark change in the community. If you 663 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,680 Speaker 1: want to still have a balanced life, I'm talking about 664 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,960 Speaker 1: raising kids and also um making sure that you get 665 00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,200 Speaker 1: at least a couple of hours sleep a day. How 666 00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:56,879 Speaker 1: do you manage to build something slowly but then at 667 00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:59,920 Speaker 1: the same time make money to survive. This was the 668 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,360 Speaker 1: most common question that came in, and it's based on 669 00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:08,160 Speaker 1: a fundamental misunderstanding of what I'm talking about. When I 670 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,200 Speaker 1: say that the grand opening is a mistake. Grand openings 671 00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:16,560 Speaker 1: are expensive, they are fraught with risk, They are fool hardy. 672 00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:22,160 Speaker 1: The other approach the smallest possible market, the idea that 673 00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:26,520 Speaker 1: we can find our people and delight them while ignoring 674 00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:31,839 Speaker 1: everyone else. That's not slow, that's smart. And so if 675 00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,480 Speaker 1: you're going to make something, you have to be prepared 676 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,800 Speaker 1: for the fact that it's not going to work right away, 677 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,560 Speaker 1: that it might never work. If you're going to make something, 678 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,359 Speaker 1: you have to accept the fact that it's different than 679 00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,799 Speaker 1: having a day job. Bank Tellers get paid when they 680 00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:51,680 Speaker 1: show up at work every day. Creators don't. So I 681 00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,160 Speaker 1: don't have a short cut for how to live the 682 00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:58,200 Speaker 1: life you deserve, how to have a steady income while 683 00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:01,239 Speaker 1: doing this work. That's beyond the scope of what we're 684 00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:05,840 Speaker 1: talking about today. But what I am arguing for is 685 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:10,640 Speaker 1: that the most efficient, smartest productive way to do your 686 00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:14,840 Speaker 1: work is not to wish and hope for the fairy 687 00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,440 Speaker 1: of success to come and say everyone knows your idea, 688 00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:23,920 Speaker 1: because she's not coming. That The alternative is to be specific, 689 00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:28,160 Speaker 1: urgent and important and to make a difference for a 690 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,600 Speaker 1: few people, because then they'll spread the word and then 691 00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:33,640 Speaker 1: you can do the work you wanted to do all 692 00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:39,080 Speaker 1: along sometimes feels like you're saying that, uh, it doesn't 693 00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,719 Speaker 1: matter the quality at first, just get out there with 694 00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,520 Speaker 1: your work, the work that you believe in. But then 695 00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:48,400 Speaker 1: what if people give you, uh, their attention at first, 696 00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:52,600 Speaker 1: and then you create this not perfect you know, ugly duckling, 697 00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:57,560 Speaker 1: and then uh, people see it and they never take 698 00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:02,360 Speaker 1: you seriously. Again, there's a big difference between just ship 699 00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:06,600 Speaker 1: it and merely ship it. And I have never argued 700 00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:10,359 Speaker 1: that people should just ship stuff out, whatever it is, 701 00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:14,760 Speaker 1: just take a flyer, throw it into the world. Merely 702 00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:18,520 Speaker 1: do it, though merely is something else. Merely do it 703 00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:24,840 Speaker 1: means with focus and with care. You cannot know what 704 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:29,920 Speaker 1: your audience actually wants until you engage with them. So 705 00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:33,319 Speaker 1: my argument is, yes, build it with care, build it 706 00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:37,879 Speaker 1: as if everything depended on it. But no, don't hold 707 00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:41,120 Speaker 1: it back in fear. Don't hold it back wondering and waiting. 708 00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:45,200 Speaker 1: You must engage with the audience. Does that mean that 709 00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:47,959 Speaker 1: some people you engage with who don't get the joke 710 00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:52,439 Speaker 1: will write you off in the future. Probably, But if 711 00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,840 Speaker 1: you want to go listen to Billy Joel's early demos 712 00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:13,520 Speaker 1: was broken these world is always God, look at Jerry 713 00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:18,560 Speaker 1: Seinfeldt's early stand up. Go find anybody whose work you 714 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:22,960 Speaker 1: care about and notice that at the beginning it wasn't 715 00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:27,320 Speaker 1: that good. So you're saying to worry about organic traffic 716 00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,520 Speaker 1: before anything else. I see a lot of creators I 717 00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,000 Speaker 1: feel like should be getting traction faster than they are. 718 00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:38,160 Speaker 1: When is advertising the answer? If ever, not, all ideas 719 00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:44,760 Speaker 1: spread organically, and there's nothing wrong with advertising anticipated personal 720 00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:49,000 Speaker 1: relevant advertising that reaches people who want to get it 721 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:53,439 Speaker 1: can be really effective. My argument is that it never 722 00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:56,799 Speaker 1: makes sense to buy a Super Bowl ad ever, that 723 00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,080 Speaker 1: you're not trying to reach everyone, but if you know 724 00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:04,120 Speaker 1: specifically who you seek to reach by all means by 725 00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:09,319 Speaker 1: the ads. Two good questions about Kevin Kelly's notion of 726 00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:13,240 Speaker 1: one thousand true fans. How might you quickly and cheaply 727 00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:16,960 Speaker 1: demonstrate the power of a thousand true fans to someone 728 00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,239 Speaker 1: who's a nonbeliever when going through when building up our 729 00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,759 Speaker 1: one thousand true fans, how do we know who to 730 00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,839 Speaker 1: target and what to aim for? So let me take 731 00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:30,840 Speaker 1: another minute to go through the math here. True fans 732 00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:36,359 Speaker 1: aren't merely fans. There are people who show up with 733 00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:43,400 Speaker 1: time and money, acting as patrons insisting that the work continue. 734 00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:48,520 Speaker 1: One Thousand true fans are the core of how ideas spread. 735 00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:52,959 Speaker 1: One thousand true fans can pay for a small team 736 00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:57,400 Speaker 1: of people to create magical work. The math is pretty simple. 737 00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:01,920 Speaker 1: If you've got one thousand people that will come to 738 00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:06,080 Speaker 1: your rock concert weekend to spend time with the band 739 00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,800 Speaker 1: and pay a thousand dollars each, that's a million dollars. 740 00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:14,040 Speaker 1: When you've got one thousand true fans who are willing 741 00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:18,839 Speaker 1: to subscribe to your work, paying every month, you can 742 00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:22,120 Speaker 1: make a living on that. Can you support a giant corporation, 743 00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:26,800 Speaker 1: of course not, But you can support an artist, a human, 744 00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:30,200 Speaker 1: somebody who wants to make a difference. So how to 745 00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:34,160 Speaker 1: choose these people? Because the people who choose you they 746 00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:37,160 Speaker 1: might be fans, but true fans are a little different. 747 00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:42,560 Speaker 1: True fans understand that they are actually engaged in the 748 00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:48,440 Speaker 1: process of creation. True fans define their future through the 749 00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:51,880 Speaker 1: work that the artist is doing. They're grateful for it, 750 00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:55,880 Speaker 1: and they are willing to participate. So part of the 751 00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:59,400 Speaker 1: discernment that we need as creators is to tell the 752 00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:04,000 Speaker 1: difference between someone who will take our time and someone 753 00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:12,359 Speaker 1: who will amplify our time. That's it for this round 754 00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,960 Speaker 1: of questions one more time. Thank you so much for 755 00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:19,200 Speaker 1: being part of this. If you want to see previous episodes, 756 00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:21,319 Speaker 1: if you want to see the show notes, which are 757 00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,000 Speaker 1: sort of cool, or if you want to ask a 758 00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:27,200 Speaker 1: question for next time, head on over to a Kimbo 759 00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:31,920 Speaker 1: dot link. That's a k I M b O dot 760 00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:40,640 Speaker 1: l I n K until next time, keep making a ruckus. Thanks. 761 00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:46,759 Speaker 1: People are talking about the Marketing Seminar. I was completely 762 00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:52,520 Speaker 1: blown away. It was incredibly comprehensive, crazy, crazy, crazy useful. 763 00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:55,759 Speaker 1: It's easily was five times what I paid for the course. 764 00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:58,560 Speaker 1: The content in the class was awesome. What I learned 765 00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:02,799 Speaker 1: I actually could apply immediately and get results. I thought 766 00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:06,239 Speaker 1: it's gonna be kind of an automated course. And the 767 00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:10,560 Speaker 1: big shock is the cohort. I have never felt more 768 00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:14,480 Speaker 1: supported in any online program I've done. And I actually 769 00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:16,439 Speaker 1: changed the way we talk about the project and changed 770 00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:18,920 Speaker 1: the way we promoted on our website. I use it 771 00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:23,480 Speaker 1: in other projects a way to really evaluate it and 772 00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:27,640 Speaker 1: to apply it that I have never experienced anywhere else. 773 00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:31,000 Speaker 1: It's so much more than just a marketing seminar. Find 774 00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:42,520 Speaker 1: out more at the Marketing Seminar dot com. Hello Dead beats. 775 00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,840 Speaker 1: It's Gabby Gabby Done, host of Bad with Money. I 776 00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:47,680 Speaker 1: had the Bad with Money book come out in January. 777 00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:50,719 Speaker 1: I'm super stoked for season four. This season, we're going 778 00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:53,520 Speaker 1: back to our roots and I'm having long conversations with 779 00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,880 Speaker 1: amazing people and getting the big picture about money and 780 00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:02,000 Speaker 1: the economy. Do you like intersectional, queer, social justice based 781 00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:05,520 Speaker 1: money podcasts? This is the only one, so get into it. 782 00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:08,239 Speaker 1: Did you earn it? You deserve to be like a 783 00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:11,960 Speaker 1: billionaire when somebody who's working as a janitor or working 784 00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:15,560 Speaker 1: in Walmart, or teacher or a teacher, yeah, certainly, or 785 00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:18,080 Speaker 1: a teacher who may be working just as many hours 786 00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:20,319 Speaker 1: as you, may be just as smart as you like. 787 00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:23,000 Speaker 1: Does that make it okay that you have so much? 788 00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:25,279 Speaker 1: I get paid once a month, so my my check 789 00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:27,960 Speaker 1: accounts huge. It's like a tidal wave comes in and 790 00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:30,720 Speaker 1: then on the second it's empty again. Oh my god, 791 00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:33,920 Speaker 1: speaking my language. Bad with Money is back now for 792 00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:36,920 Speaker 1: season four. Listen and stitch your Apple podcasts or wherever 793 00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:37,960 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.