1 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: I know it's so corny and and and please just 2 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: humor me for a second, Super producer, Casey, can we 3 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: have a little bit of Christmas music? Humbug? There? We 4 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: are welcome to the show. Folks. My name's Ben. I 5 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: don't like Christmas. You don't like Christmas? No, I'm the 6 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 1: Grinch what stole Christmas? And then ransomed it back to 7 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: the Little Who's of Hoogl. The Grinch was very anti Christmas, 8 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: at least at the offset of the story. Did you 9 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: see the Halloween special that that freaked me out when 10 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: I was kitten? Halloween is grinched night. Yes, it's a 11 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: good one. It's a good one, very psychedelic. When the 12 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 1: he lets out all the books and the ghosts and 13 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: stuff and the hackensacks or holan. We're not talking about 14 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: Halloween today. We're talking about Christmas, right, Christmas, those four 15 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: it and against it. If you have in your life 16 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: someone who is not a fan of the holidays in 17 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: general or this particular holiday, Christmas right, then you may 18 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:32,559 Speaker 1: enjoy this episode. Because when we think of Christmas here 19 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: in the West, we think of some basic iconic things. 20 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: The Eulelag, Yeah, the Ulag, the Christmas tree, caught cocoa 21 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: Nativity scene right, rampant commercialism right, right, the Coca Cola, 22 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: Santa Claus, and the Polar Bears sometimes all in the 23 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: same picture. Sometimes it's the Santa Claus riding the Polar Bears. 24 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: At least that's in my nightmares. Right. And this is uh, 25 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: this is the age of the meme. So we could 26 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: just go ahead and and throw in you know, Jeff 27 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: Goldblum or Christopher walking, just like in the mix. Why not. 28 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: It's a party all the time in ridiculous history. And 29 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: Christmas in the US, by a number of different metrics, 30 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:18,239 Speaker 1: is a hugely important event, a hugely important annual event. Economically, 31 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: it's very important to both businesses and to governments, right. Uh. Spiritually, 32 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: it's very important to people who practice Christianity. And even 33 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:35,679 Speaker 1: for people who don't really uh consider themselves spiritually aligned 34 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: with the celebration of Christmas, they might still participate because 35 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: a lot of the traditions are fun. You know, you've 36 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,959 Speaker 1: got the stockings and the stuff in the stockings, You've 37 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 1: got Christmas presents, they're huge thing. Um. I personally, I 38 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: don't know about you know, but I personally remember growing 39 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: up with people who did not consider themselves Christian, but 40 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: celebrated Christmas because they loved you know, the parties, and 41 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: they loved the gifts in the making Mary the gifts, 42 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: Christmas gifts, both with a team without. Yeah, well, you know, 43 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: it's hard to imagine a time where this wasn't the case, 44 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 1: where you know, the Santa Claus riding polar bears um 45 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: on on a sleigh of death was not confronting you 46 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: at every turn. But as it turns out, Christmas did 47 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: not used to be uh nearly as big a deal 48 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: as it is today. Right, absolutely, and too explore this further, 49 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: we are going to take a trip back in time. 50 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: Let's go to Let's go to what will later be 51 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: called Cape Cod Massachusetts. Should we? Should we time travel? 52 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: I've done that in a while. Yeah, let's go here. 53 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: We are old. It's sixteen twenty European colonists disembark from 54 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: a ship called the Mayflower with the aim of establishing 55 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: a colony and a new better way of life in 56 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 1: the new World, and they wanted to leave a lot 57 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: of things behind. One of the things they wanted to 58 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: leave behind was the celebration of Christmas. Not only just Christmas, 59 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: but like everything associated with Christmas, because to the Puritans 60 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: it represented debauchery, uh, decadence and ultimately sinfulness. Right yeah, 61 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: so quick and dirty background on on Puritans and Puritanism. 62 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: It was a reform movement that arose in the Church 63 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: of England in the late sixteenth century, and the Church 64 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 1: didn't like it. The Crown didn't like it, and this, 65 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: you know, in many ways provided the motivation for these 66 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 1: colonists to leave and seek a different life in the 67 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 1: new world. And without going too far into it, I 68 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,279 Speaker 1: do want to note this, this is pretty interesting. The 69 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: word Puritan was actually used as a pejorative. The word 70 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 1: came from the enemies of Puritanism. They were also sometimes 71 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 1: called Precisionist and boy howdy did they have a bone 72 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: to pick or a beef to stew with Christmas? Uh? 73 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: They didn't understand it. They said, the harvest are done, 74 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:24,919 Speaker 1: the cattle are slaughtered, Zeland to be fed in winter. 75 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: This means there's fresh meat and fresh wine, as well 76 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: as a lot of time off in abundance. Right. And 77 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: one of their primary issues with this decadent society was 78 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 1: that the Bible, they said, notes no specific date for 79 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: the birth of Jesus Christ, Yeah, it's really interesting too, 80 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: because there were non Puritans um in these camps. In fact, 81 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: a man named William Bradford, in his journal um called 82 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: of Plymouth Plantation, made a note of a disagreement that 83 00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: arose between him and some newly arrived non Puritans on 84 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: Christmas of sixteen one, And it goes like this. One 85 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: the day called Christmas Day, the governor called them out 86 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 1: to work, But most of this new company excused themselves 87 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: and said it went against their conscious to work on 88 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: that day. So the governor told them that if they 89 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,840 Speaker 1: made it matter of conscience, he would spare them till 90 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 1: they were better informed. Later he found them in the 91 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 1: street at play openly, some pitching the bar and some 92 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: at stoolball and such like sports. So he went to 93 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: them and took away their implements and told them that 94 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 1: was against his conscience that they should play and others work. 95 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 1: If they made the keeping of it matter of devotion, 96 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: let them keep their houses, but there should be no 97 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: gaming or reveling in the streets. Since which time nothing 98 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: hath been attempted that way, at least openly. That's like, 99 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: you know, hey, if you gotta play at stoolball and frolic. 100 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: Do it behind closed doors, man, No one wants to 101 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: see that. Keep it, yeah, keep it under wraps, keep 102 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 1: it in the house. That was a great Readonal, And 103 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: it's true the governor in this case, Bradford, is not 104 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: being um a unique pill all on his own. The 105 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: Puritans thought of what was going on in England was 106 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: not just a sign of debauchery for Christmas time and 107 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: for the English, but it was a sign of the 108 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: decline of civilization and a decline of all the things 109 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: that had any value whatsoever. This comes from a history 110 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: professor named penn Ristad who wrote a pretty fascinating book 111 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: called Christmas in America, a History. So they thought they 112 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: weren't just being fuddy duddies. They thought they were saving 113 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: Western civilization and the good things of English society. And 114 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: at first it sounds like he's kind of tolerant, where 115 00:07:56,080 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: he says, you know, until you know better, it's so hey, 116 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: do what do what you want. But man, he just 117 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: couldn't take them playing out in the streets. That didn't 118 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: last long, though, Ben because in sixteen fifty nine, on 119 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: May eleventh, to be precise, the Massachusetts Bay Colony Legislature 120 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: passed an official ban on Christmas, and anyone found celebrating 121 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: it would be fined uh five shillings. But we're getting 122 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: ahead of ourselves just slightly. This goes back farther to 123 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: a man named Oliver Cromwell. Yes, yeah, uh so there 124 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:35,559 Speaker 1: was a similar Christmas band in England during the rule 125 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: of Oliver Cromwell, when Parliament was controlled by a Puritan majority. 126 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,439 Speaker 1: The Puritan Parliament decided to make Christmas time a period 127 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:51,199 Speaker 1: of fasting and humiliation in prayer and prayer for all 128 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: the sins of previous Christmas is. And let's just point 129 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: out this, Oliver Cromwell was no joke. He was one 130 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: of the signers of King Charles the first death Warrant 131 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: which led to this admittedly brief English Commonwealth Uh. And 132 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:14,199 Speaker 1: the band that he imposed lasted nearly twenty years. So 133 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: for nearly two decades, Christmas carols were banned. Any kind 134 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: of open celebration of Christmas was banned. Um. And yet 135 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: people held onto these traditions and had to kind of 136 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: take it underground. Right, But why did they hate Christmas? 137 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,839 Speaker 1: Ben I thought this was a celebration of the birth 138 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: of baby Jesus. Well again, they said there's no specific 139 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: date assigned to it in the Bible, in their Holy Text, 140 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 1: so there's nothing to celebrate in their opinion, and they 141 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:51,119 Speaker 1: saw it as just you know, everybody using the holidays 142 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: and the excuse to create their own Las Vegas. Yeah, 143 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: but what's the origins of Christmas? Ben? We know that 144 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 1: it was accused of being two aligned with pagan traditions, 145 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:03,439 Speaker 1: But where where does all that come from? And how 146 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: did December become a thing? Oh? Oh man, Okay, this 147 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: is uh, this is a twisted tale. You can actually 148 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: hear an interesting take on this from our other show. 149 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: Uh stuff. They don't want you to know. We have 150 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:22,839 Speaker 1: a piece about the strange origins of Christmas, and know 151 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: you are absolutely correct. A lot of the things consider 152 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: Christmas traditions today arose independently hundreds of years after the 153 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: era of Jesus Christ, and they come from pre existing 154 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: religions or folk beliefs. Right. Yeah, I was playing a 155 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: little coy. I actually found this great paper called How 156 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 1: December Became Christmas by Andrew McGowan, which originally appeared in 157 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: The Bible Review in December of two thousand two, and 158 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: he says that celebrations of Jesus Birth and the Nativity 159 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: and all that are not mentioned anywhere in the Gospels 160 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: or acts um. And that one of the only references 161 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 1: to the timing a time frame for Jesus Birth was 162 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: this notion of shepherds tending their flocks at night when 163 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: they hear the news of Jesus Birth, which is from 164 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: Luke to eight, and that suggested actually that this took 165 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: place during the spring lambing season. Um. But McGowan says, 166 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: most scholars say it's sort of a mistake to try 167 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: to pull a specific date out of this kind of 168 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence, right, And I mean there's it's it's very 169 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 1: vague Christmas itself, the celebration as we would understand it, 170 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: and the customs that a lot of Puritans would have 171 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: been familiar with. Uh, it's all the result of this 172 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: agglomeration of different pre existing festivals, pagan festivals in many 173 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: cases that were later co opted in some way by 174 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: the Catholic Church. Yeah, there was one particular called Saturnalia 175 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 1: that took place in late December and aligned with the 176 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: winter solstice UM. And the Roman emperor Eurolean actually established 177 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: this other feast of the Birth of Saul Invictus or 178 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: the Unconquered Son, and that was on DECEMBERY. So mc 179 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: gallan argues that it was a spinoff from these pagan 180 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,719 Speaker 1: solar festivals. Christmas was in fact a spinoff. And there 181 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:38,839 Speaker 1: are two theories of how Christmas became the Christmas that 182 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 1: we know today, um, one of which is more popular 183 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 1: than the other, and that is that early Christians chose 184 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 1: these dates to coincide with these pre existing uh they 185 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: would refer to as barbarian kind of holidays Roman holidays, 186 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: so that they could kind of encourage Christianity to spread 187 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:03,959 Speaker 1: because they really, well, it's the same, it happens around 188 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: the same time. I might as well just do this 189 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,439 Speaker 1: new Christmas thing instead of you know, the old ways. 190 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: But it was a little easier to swallow. But then 191 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: he goes on to say that there are problems with 192 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: this that doesn't appear in any early Christian writings um, 193 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: and that to this day it's not hundred percent sure 194 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: why December became the day we celebrate Christmas, but it 195 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: is pretty compelling to note that there were unit these 196 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: pre existing sun worship based you know, religions or sets 197 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: of beliefs like Mythraism, the Roman religions. James Fraser had 198 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 1: this pretty conclusive take on it, at least in his opinion. 199 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 1: He said, the largest pagan religious cult that fostered the 200 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: celebration December as a holiday was the Pagan sun worship 201 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: myth Realism, and their winter festival was called the Nativity 202 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: of the Sun. And if they, like other civilizations or 203 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: other belief systems we're keeping, they December as a sacred day. 204 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:07,319 Speaker 1: To them was the birthday of the Sun. Essentially, then 205 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:11,680 Speaker 1: this idea of co opting makes perfect sense. It's easier 206 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: to say yes to that. And it's a practice that's common. 207 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: It's called religious syncretism. So for instance, when um, let's 208 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: say you have a pre existing religion, right, and you 209 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: want to proselytize, you want to travel and spread the 210 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: good news, and you go to a land where no 211 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: one has ever heard of your religion, but they have 212 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: their own religion. Then you start saying, oh, that, uh, 213 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: that god you worship is actually you know, uh sat Jiminy, 214 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: crickets whatever, I'm making up a religion. And you say, 215 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 1: the whole time you've been practicing this religion, let me 216 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 1: just show you what to call it. Absolutely it seems 217 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: like a potentially successful ruse, right or you know, is it? 218 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: Is it even a ruse? To the Puritans, it was, 219 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: and they thought they were not going to be fooled. 220 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: But if we returned to the colonies in the New 221 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:09,119 Speaker 1: World at this time, we find that people were divided. 222 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: The Puritans were playing fun police. They kept a strangle 223 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: hold on fund in New England, but not all of 224 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: what would become America was against the idea of settlers 225 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: in the southern parts like Jamestown, Virginia had no problem 226 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: celebrating Christmas, and the band that the Puritans attempted was 227 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: ultimately well, obviously spoiler alert for anyone listening to this 228 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: seventeen it didn't work. People still celebrate Christmas in the 229 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: United States. But the band itself, while it was enforced, 230 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: was also never completely successful, which is something we see 231 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: happen a lot with any sort of prohibition. And back 232 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: to that band that they instituted in Boston, um in 233 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: sixteen fifty nine, and like I said, it was just 234 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: if you're found celebrating Christmas, you'd be fine. Five five shillings. Uh. 235 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: And then here is the language of that for preventing 236 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: disorders or rising in several places within this jurisdiction, by 237 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: reason of some still observing such festivals as were superstitiously 238 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: kept in other countries. To the great dishonor of God 239 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: and offense of others, is therefore ordered that whosoever shall 240 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: be found observing any such day as Christmas or the like, 241 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: either by forbearing of labor, feasting, or any other way, 242 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: upon such account, as aforesaid, every such person so offending 243 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: shall pay for every such offense five shillings as fine 244 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: to the county. Beautiful, very grinch like in it. Yes, 245 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: And they were attaching a financial incentive there, so that 246 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: the law actually had teeth, you know. And that band 247 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: actually remained in place for twenty two years and then 248 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: was abolished in se And that's because there was this 249 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: influx of European immigrants that really insisted upon Christmas right, 250 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: and the society was changing at a different pace in 251 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: different parts of the world. So it was changing at 252 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: a slower rate in New England and more rapidly in 253 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: the Middle colonies. In the South, there was a need 254 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 1: for pluralism and social harmony, so people began coming together 255 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: culturally to celebrate Christmas. Yet the status of the holiday. 256 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: It was still haphazard and there wasn't a huge amount 257 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 1: of harmony in the specific traditions that they practiced. Yeah, 258 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: and even after this coming together that you're talking about, 259 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: it still took a while before Christmas became entrenched the 260 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: way it is today as far as like a national holiday. 261 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: Congress was in session on Christmas of sevent nine, that 262 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: was the year after the Constitution was ratified. The Senate 263 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:49,199 Speaker 1: worked on Christmas, of the House met on Christmas of 264 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: eighteen o two, So this was not um a big 265 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: deal yet. Yeah, it wasn't until later in the nineteenth 266 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: century that Christmas began to shape up into something that 267 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: the average person in seventeen would recognize. Uh, different religions 268 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: and denominations emerged in America, and they held Christmas both 269 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 1: as a holy day and a day of celebration. The 270 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: Puritans took notice, and our author friend Penn Rastad of 271 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: Christmas in America, a History um said this, the Puritans 272 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 1: are sort of being introduced to varieties of religious experiences 273 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,479 Speaker 1: that can't help but start to kind of wear away 274 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: one's commitment to a single way of thinking. So, in 275 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 1: other words, you know, different religions formed in local governments, 276 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: and there was this kind of given take between different 277 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:40,679 Speaker 1: networks that helped kind of calm down some of these 278 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: animosities and biases between these different groups. And then in 279 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 1: eighteen seventy, two hundred and fifty years after Plymouth Rock, 280 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: the US declared Christmas and national holiday. And it happened. 281 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: This declaration happened because of compelling economics, the emergence of 282 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 1: a middle class. The idea of giving and receiving Christmas 283 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 1: gifts took hold when people had the ability to afford 284 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: uh such exchanges, right, and then there was this emphasis 285 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: on hanging at home and hanging with your family. So 286 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,679 Speaker 1: no more stoolball in the street and we're frolicking in 287 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: the street. And you know, Christmas today still involves a 288 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,919 Speaker 1: fair amount of gluttony and boozing, you know, depending on 289 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: your if. I don't know about your family, but it 290 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: certainly doesn't mind. But I guess we found kind of 291 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 1: a middle ground. Um, so it's not like we're going 292 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: door to door. I meant to mention this earlier, but 293 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: in the early days of Christmas in England, begging was sailing, 294 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,919 Speaker 1: they called it. It involved going door to door to 295 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: wealthy people's houses, begging for food, and at times if 296 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: they refused you, you would like barge into their homes 297 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: and like like clockwork orange style and start like trashing 298 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,119 Speaker 1: the place. You know. So we've come a long way. 299 00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: We have come a long way. We were looking off 300 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: air into some other unique and interesting Christmas traditions from 301 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: outside of the United States. Of course, Honorable mentioned to 302 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,919 Speaker 1: Crampus and Crampus spot kind of got blown up a 303 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,959 Speaker 1: few years ago here in the US. Everybody knew about it. 304 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: They're multiple films. Uh. There's the poop log, a Catalan 305 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: custom in Spain where they hollow out this log, they 306 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 1: add legs in a face, and you have to feed 307 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: it every day. Here. Check this out. You have to 308 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: feed him every day leading up to Christmas, started on 309 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 1: December eight. Uh. And then you you sing a song 310 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: while you're feeding him. And the song is like poop log, 311 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 1: poop log, hazelnuts and cottage cheese. If you don't poop, well, 312 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:54,440 Speaker 1: I'll hit you with a stick poop log. True story. Yeah. 313 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 1: And on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day, you put the 314 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 1: poop log in the fireplace and beat him with sticks 315 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 1: until he poops. Out small candies, fruits and nuts you've 316 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:03,719 Speaker 1: been feeding them? Yeah, that does. Stuff does kind of 317 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: stick around in your poop. Where how do we get here? 318 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 1: Weird Christmas traditions? You know about bell Schnickel. Tell me 319 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: about bell schnickel. For there's different versions of bell Schnickel 320 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:16,920 Speaker 1: that appear in different cultures, like it was preserved even 321 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: in the Pennsylvania Dutch tradition. But I think you would 322 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 1: put out a pair of shoes, uh, and and he 323 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: would put candy in streets and small gifts. And I 324 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: think it was his job to let Santa know, um, 325 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 1: if you'd been behaving or not. Okay, he's uh, he's 326 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: kind of a lieutenant and informer. He definitely is pictured 327 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 1: um as this. It looks kind of like a trapper, 328 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 1: like a fur trapper, you know. And he's carrying around 329 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 1: this bundle of sticks. And I'm having a hard time 330 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: finding precise mention of this, but that was the Dwight 331 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 1: thing in the office where he's whipping people with these sticks. 332 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: So uh, you know, a patently unpleasant depiction of of 333 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 1: jolly old st Nick. That's that's interesting. I want to 334 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,159 Speaker 1: learn more about that. And thank you for introducing to 335 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 1: me my my favorite weird Christmas tradition for years running 336 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: now has been KFC in Japan. You know about this, right, 337 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 1: Well didn't we? Me and you and Matt from our 338 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,119 Speaker 1: other show stuff. I don't want you to know we 339 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: had fried chicken on Christmas? That's right, we did. Let's 340 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,400 Speaker 1: hear about it. So the celebration of Christmas in Asia 341 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: often has often involves imported Western traditions, but in Japan, 342 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: a lot of those traditions were shaped by commercial interest. 343 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: So the holiday in Japan has an emphasis on romantic 344 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: love and it's a day you spend with your sweetie. 345 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: You know, bakery sell Christmas cakes, But the big thing 346 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: is Kentucky Fried Chicken. People order special holiday Kentucky Fried 347 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,680 Speaker 1: Chicken meals. It's a tradition. It's like the busiest time 348 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 1: of year for KFC in Japan. Where does this come from? Ben? 349 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: That's my question, And it might have to be another episode, 350 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: but I hope somebody will right in and let us 351 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 1: know we're ridiculou This at how stuff works dot com. 352 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: Let us know about your experience with KFC in Japan. 353 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,400 Speaker 1: Uh and if you live in Japan, well, I'm really curious. 354 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: Is it the same kind of KFC that we have 355 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: here in the States or is it inherently better? I 356 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know either, but we do know this. 357 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:24,400 Speaker 1: Although the Band on Christmas never was entirely successful, there 358 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 1: are still groups out there today who consider themselves Christian, 359 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 1: and because they are Christian, they believe they should not 360 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: celebrate Christmas. They also think that the you know, that 361 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: everything about it is ultimately a pagan tradition bringing in 362 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 1: the tree, right, that's not a biblical thing. Also, things 363 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: like Holly and Ivy. We were talking with Casey super 364 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 1: producer Casey Pegram before we started recording about how I 365 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: didn't It didn't until recently occurred to me how kind 366 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: of pagany those lyrics are. It's like the rising of 367 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: the sun and the running of the deer, you know, 368 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: it's it's very has this kind of mystical um you know, 369 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 1: almost Sylvan Woodland kind of vibe to it, you know exactly. 370 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: And the concerns here are are valid and they're real. 371 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 1: For people who feel like it is a um an 372 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: appropriation of their actual religion, then the logic internally is clear. 373 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: You wouldn't celebrate Christmas if that's what you believe. Yeah, 374 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: and what if you're like a modern day pagan. I 375 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,120 Speaker 1: mean that is a thing. People still hold those old 376 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: traditions and take them very seriously and solstice rituals and 377 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 1: the like, and there's probably a sense there that a 378 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 1: lot of that's been kind of co opted and they 379 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: are made to feel like what they're doing is in 380 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 1: some way wicked. Right, And you know, one thing that 381 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,640 Speaker 1: I can stand behind is freedom of holidays. People should 382 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: be allowed to celebrate whatever they want. I just think 383 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: it's a wrong move to ban somebody from a celebration 384 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: if they're not hurting anyone. Well, as we know from 385 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: this story. I mean, you can ban it all day long. 386 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: People are still gonna do it for they might. They 387 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: might just have to frolic in secret the Devil's saget. 388 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: I don't know why I keep using that phrase, but 389 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: for now, this is going to conclude. I guess our 390 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 1: very first holiday episode. Ye so you know, uh, Mary 391 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: melodies to all Happy holidays to you and yours? Um Yeah, 392 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 1: what what? What? What's this war on Christmas? I keep 393 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: hearing about. How's that going? Ah? Yeah, that's when they 394 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: write an X m a s instead of Christmas is 395 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 1: sad shame. Yeah, it's a It's a real issue for 396 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: a lot of people. I'd be interested to hear what 397 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: you think, friends and neighbors. Do you believe that there's 398 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 1: a war on Christmas? I candidly, I'm a little more 399 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: interested in hearing any weird Christmas traditions that your family celebrates. 400 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:58,199 Speaker 1: Did you ever hear this Christmas pig thing? Introduced me 401 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 1: to it. They take like a pig, they put it 402 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 1: in this sack. It's like a little uh pig made 403 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,679 Speaker 1: out of candy pink pig, and then they break it 404 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: with a little hammer. That was at a friend's house 405 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: for Christmas. And I still haven't found anybody else who's 406 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 1: heard of that. Sounds made up. No, they did it. 407 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: They had the pig. That's the thing about traditions, though 408 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: they can be made up, many of they're all made up. 409 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: It's just like, what what do you do? What works 410 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: for you? Please let us know ridiculous house stuff works 411 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: dot com. You can also drop us a note on 412 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: Facebook or Instagram, leave us a comment. Um, we're gonna 413 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 1: start getting into that Instagram ourselves a little more. We we 414 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: we we We've been kind of just posting a little 415 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: previews to episode. Let us know what kind of stuff 416 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 1: you want to see. If if there's you know, you 417 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: want some candid shots of of Ben and I riding 418 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: roller coasters together on the weekend, we do it. It's 419 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,920 Speaker 1: been known to happen, all true, all true, And if 420 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 1: you have a tradition that you think your fellows listeners 421 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: would enjoy celebrating, let us know. And most importantly, come 422 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: on back and join us for the next episode of 423 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History, and you have a nice time off. We'll 424 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: see you next time.