1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: back to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always 3 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 1: so much for tuning in this one that we're all 4 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: pretty excited about. That's our super producer, the one and 5 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 1: only Mr Max Williams. Give him a hand. Uh, my 6 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 1: name is Ben. I gotta say I love this one. 7 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: It's it's terrible, it's horrific. I did some research for 8 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,919 Speaker 1: an unrelated project on this, and uh, I don't know. 9 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: I would say that you and I both are lovers 10 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: of language, right, we're no pun left behind guys. Well, 11 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: then I actually prepared for this episod by not speaking 12 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: for a week, uh, in the hopes that when my 13 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: my mouth opened and I spoke on this episode, out 14 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:11,320 Speaker 1: would come the original language of Eden, God's intended language 15 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: for humanity. But it turns out I just still speak 16 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,319 Speaker 1: kind of broken English. Well, what what week was that? 17 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: Because you and I were hanging out this weekend? Man, man, 18 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: don't don't come on, man, Let me have my dreams 19 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: very at the very least, my my thin subterfuge. It 20 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: was a bit, man, I was a bit yes, and 21 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 1: come on, um no, it's true though I I didn't 22 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: do that. But um, it's an interesting concept, isn't it. 23 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: The notion that if you are not exposed any language 24 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:43,199 Speaker 1: at all, that you may come out with the very 25 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: language that God intended. The implication there being the languages 26 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: somehow passed down from on high and not some sort 27 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: of like learned trait involving, you know, paying attention to 28 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: other people are doing, and that it's a living language, 29 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: that it evolves over time, and you know, different languages 30 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: exist because of different trial and error attempts throughout history. 31 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: Right right right, there was this idea of an ancient 32 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 1: idea that if humans would stop bothering children with their 33 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: own pesky habits of language, that children would, as you say, 34 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: speak the way that God intended them to. This story 35 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: has has so many threats to pull, but let's start 36 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: with an island that you may not have heard of 37 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:31,399 Speaker 1: unless you are from Scotland. It's a tiny place. It's 38 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: called inch Keith. The atomology, I think ultimately just means 39 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 1: wooded aisle, which is a little bit of a down 40 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 1: because I was hoping there was a guy named Keith 41 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: somewhere in the Island's passed and there was like an 42 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: inch thing going on. But if you go to this aisle, 43 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: this island is about three miles north of Edinburgh, you 44 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 1: will see that it has you know, it has a 45 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 1: pretty deep past. It was used to quarantine people suffering 46 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: from contagious sickness, is especially a syphilis which they called, 47 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 1: get this, the Grand Gore, Grand Gore back in the day. 48 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: That sounds like a muppet villain or something like that, 49 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: like the trash heap you know from Fraggle Rock, or 50 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: like in Dark Crystal. You have to you have to 51 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: the Grand Gore. But the thing this island is most 52 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: famous for nowadays is a very sad and as we 53 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: will find, not unique experiment that is believed to have 54 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: taken place in when then King of Scotland, James the 55 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: Fourth said I gotta do an experiment with as few 56 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: people as possible, and he set up something today, a 57 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: language experiment that remains a fascinating rabbit hole. And what 58 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: we'd like to do is explore a little bit about James, 59 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: who was a smart guy. For the record, going into this, 60 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: it's important to know where you hear all the crazy 61 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: stuff we're gonna say about him. James was a smart 62 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: guy for his time and Uh, maybe not the most ethical. 63 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: Would you agree with that? Yeah? He was. I mean, 64 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: you know, I gotta give the guy a little slack. 65 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: It was a different time. Well, he didn't necessarily hurt anybody. 66 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: What he did would now be considered incredibly unethical. And 67 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: what he did was take two newborn infant babies, uh 68 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:28,359 Speaker 1: and sequester them on the island of inch Keith and 69 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: have them raised by mute nursemaids. He would of course 70 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 1: give them all the things they needed to be nourished physically, 71 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: though not spiritually or like, intellectually or emotionally. Maybe emotionally. 72 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 1: They probably gave them hugs, but they did not give 73 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 1: them bedtime stories or you know, sing them songs or anything, 74 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 1: because they could not speak. The idea being that if 75 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 1: this happened, supposedly they would naturally, like you said, Ben, 76 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: in the same way the babies can swim out of 77 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: the womb, come out with this language he referred to 78 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: oftentimes as the language of Eden, you know, the first 79 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: language of man, and by manny, we mean like, you know, humankind. 80 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: But let's go a little bit more into the history 81 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: of this island. It is around three miles north of 82 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: Edinburgh in the middle of Scotland's Firth of Fourth area. 83 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: Just a real tongue twister, and it has had a 84 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: bit of a checkered past. In the twelfth century it 85 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 1: was used as a stopping point for boats and ferries 86 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: going from Edinburgh to Fife, and then a couple of 87 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:31,359 Speaker 1: centuriears later. It had a strategic position that allowed it 88 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: to be very useful in the Scottish Wars of Independence. 89 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 1: It was constantly being you know, um besieged by various 90 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: invading English forces. Uh, during the Anglo Scottish Wars. Then 91 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: in the fifteenth century, like you said, Bennett was kind 92 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: of like a plague quarantine island, like that one they 93 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: were trying to send Hannibal Lecture two where you the 94 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 1: view of a tree, you know, maybe get to walk 95 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 1: on the beach, all that stuff. But then that was all, 96 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: you know, a subterfuge, as we know you've seen the film. 97 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 1: But let's go to James the Fourth Now, Ben, what 98 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: say you, yeah, yeah, let's go. So a bit of 99 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 1: background about our boy. James was born in fourteen seventy 100 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: three on seventeenth of March. So if you just do 101 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: some quick math you'll realize that he was pretty young 102 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 1: when he did this experiment, okay, And he was King 103 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: of Scotland from fourteen eighty eight until his death in 104 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: September nine, fifteen thirteen. He was just like fifteen when 105 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 1: some rival nobles who were opposed to his father started 106 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 1: using him as a figurehead. In a four eight rebellion, 107 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 1: his father was killed under mysterious circumstances and as kind 108 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: of a a punishment or a penance for somehow playing 109 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 1: a role in patricide. James the fourth would wear a 110 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,839 Speaker 1: heavy iron chain around his waist for the rest of 111 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: his life. And a lot of this is coming from 112 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: a great little website we'd like to recommend called Undiscovered 113 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: Scotland dot co dot uk. So he got into the 114 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: royalty game pretty early. It's just fifteen when he gets coordinated. 115 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: And one thing that's fascinated about him I always found 116 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: was that he was actually good at his job. You know, 117 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: we're not saying he's a perfect person, right. He took 118 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: to it quickly and was considered to be the most effective, well, 119 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: the first effective monarch out of the Stewart line. Yeah, yep, 120 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: and he expanded the navy. He was known for keeping 121 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: a cool head in military affairs and being a solid leader. 122 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: But as we alluded to earlier, James was also super 123 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: into the arts and sciences. He was a monarch, but 124 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: that wasn't all he was. In fact, he is probably 125 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: out of every other Scottish king, he is the one 126 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: who is most often brought up as being a what 127 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: you would call a renaissance man today. He likes history, poetry, literature, medicine, science. 128 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: He wants to learn about the world. Yep, he licensed 129 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: the very first printing press in Scotland. UM. He was 130 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: a notable patron of the arts. Um he you know, 131 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 1: helps support numerous you know creators, bards for example, songwriters. 132 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: He even studied, you know, dentistry and surgery. I don't 133 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: know that he hopefully he didn't perform any amateur dental 134 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: or or surgical procedures, but you never know. The king 135 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: he's certainly wasn't beyond the room of possibility. But he 136 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 1: also was super into alchemy, which I think we're both 137 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: fascinated by as well, been largely from stuff we talked 138 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: about on our other podcast, Stuff that don't want you 139 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: to know. I think we have a whole episode on 140 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,599 Speaker 1: alchemy that's folks to check out in which we almost 141 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:56,199 Speaker 1: certainly talk about John Damien, who is King James is 142 00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: most trusted and you know, supposedly adapt ALcom anybody that 143 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: doesn't well, we'll get to that for sure. Not only 144 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: could you not fly, he pulled kind of a Marty 145 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: McFly kind of situation. Um that we'll get to in 146 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: just a second. But John Damien was you know, what, 147 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: what what what? What James would have considered an adept alchemist. 148 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: What we know today is that was not really a thing. 149 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: It was largely being very good bulleit, being able to 150 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: kind of convince people that you had these abilities. It 151 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 1: was sort of It's interesting culturally because it straddled that 152 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: line between magic and science, right man. Yeah, Alchemy gave 153 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:38,439 Speaker 1: the human species a lot of advancements. It's a precursor 154 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: to what we call chemistry today. And they were conducting 155 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,959 Speaker 1: a lot of experiments that may have seemed unorthodox at 156 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: the time and may seem ill informed, but in many ways, 157 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: the alchemists of this era were trailblazers. John Damiens unfortunately 158 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:03,319 Speaker 1: perhaps most from umber today for an experiment he did 159 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 1: with flights and this is this is also mentioned in 160 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: article by Paul Anthony Jones, the King of Scotland's peculiar 161 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: language experiment over with our friends of mental flows. Here's 162 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: what Here's what Johnny D did, which is why I'm 163 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: gonna call him. He he thought, you know, well things 164 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: with feathers, birds, many of them can fly. He thought, 165 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: so why don't I get some feathers together and will 166 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: I'll make some wings. They're the size of a man 167 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: for out of chicken feathers. And then I'm gonna jump 168 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: from Sterling Castle whereas he said, he's uh, King James 169 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: is located and he says, you know, I get enough altitude, 170 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: your highness, I'll be able to fly straight through France. 171 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: This was maybe true for a couple of seconds. He 172 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: did reach great speeds, but they were all you know, 173 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 1: he was. He reached great speed going downward, and he 174 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: broke his leg. He survived, though. Unfortunately, falling and flying 175 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: are not the same thing, even if they both take 176 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: place in the air. Um and I mentioned Marty McFly earlier, 177 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 1: and I'm referring to the fact that in every iteration 178 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 1: of Back to the Future, Biff Marty's nemesis ends up 179 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: falling into a pile of manure, showing the history repeats 180 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 1: itself no matter what you do, or at the very least, 181 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: it often rhymes right, ben um. But that's exactly what happens. 182 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: Told Johnny D. He tumbles out of the sky into 183 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 1: a massive dung heap. Nothing worse than that, having to 184 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: walk away from a failed experiment covered in excrement, but 185 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: it admittedly did cushion his fall and keep him from dying. Instead, 186 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: he did just suffer a broken leg and uh likely 187 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: a heavily bruised ego, And then he ended up blaming 188 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 1: the types of feathers on it. Right, What was that? Yeah? Yeah, 189 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: he said, he said, Look, your Highness, my ideas are solid. 190 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: The hidden feathers I used must have been so attracted 191 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: to that pile is below that it made me crash. 192 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: And what we're saying with this anecdote is that the 193 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: King is an open minded guy. For his time, he 194 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: wants to He wants to pursue stuff. He believes the 195 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 1: world is both understandable and worth understanding, which is something 196 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: I am principle agree with. But that's chief amongst his 197 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 1: intellectual interests. The stuff that he really dug was his 198 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: love of language. He spoke multiple languages. This guy spoke English, Latin, French, Italian, Spanish, 199 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: she threw some Flemish in there, and people were amazed 200 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: that he wasn't He wasn't putting up a front about this. 201 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: He really did speak these languages, and as a linguist, 202 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: he was constantly asking himself, how do people notice speak? 203 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: And how come people are the only animals he wondered, 204 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: Uh that I know of that can use language? Nowadays, 205 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: we know that's not entirely true. By the way Wales 206 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: communicate with through song right, and it has a lot 207 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 1: in common with languages, and birds seem to also be 208 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: able to communicate certain concepts, especially Corvett's shout out um. 209 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:30,559 Speaker 1: But he, like I, I think we both read that sometimes. 210 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: This guy, who again is the King of Scotland, he's 211 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,559 Speaker 1: got stuff to do. This guy would sit around and 212 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,439 Speaker 1: just watch people talk. He would just watch their mouths move. 213 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 1: It's a little weird, huh, It's cool again. I plub 214 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: the guy for his thirst for knowledge, But he also 215 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 1: seemed like a bit of a sociopath. I don't know 216 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: most kings, it's easier for them to fall into that trap, 217 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: given that you're just constantly surrounded by yes man. Not 218 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 1: to say the sociopaths are made, but certainly, if you 219 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: have those tendencies and people are constantly indulging you in 220 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 1: doing whatever bizarro things you want, you certainly might not 221 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 1: be the best thing for you. But what we're talking 222 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: about today is King James the fourth Language experiments, because, 223 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: like you said, he was fascinated with the way people 224 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: communicate with each other, logistically, spiritually, all of that stuff, 225 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: just like how does it work? And why are we 226 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: driven to do it? Um? So like you do, in 227 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: he decided to take two newborn babies to be sent 228 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: to live on that isolated island of inch Keith that 229 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: we talked about, And not only were they raised by 230 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: mute women, they were deaf mute women. His goal was 231 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: to see what natural language the children would come out 232 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: with after a period of time. Um. There's not a 233 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: whole lot of documentation of the experiment itself, so we're 234 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: not quite sure exactly how long uh they lived on 235 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: this island, um, but we do know the experiment most 236 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: likely took place, and we're going to get into it now. 237 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: We know too that language deprivation experiments are often referred 238 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: to as the forbidden experiment, and that is because they 239 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: are just inherently cruel. It's something that we've seen throughout 240 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: history when people maybe had less, you know, concerned for 241 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: like scientific standards and ethics. But we've seen the Greeks 242 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: do this. Herodotus I believe he wrote that in the 243 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: seventeenth century b c UM. The Egyptian pharaoh somatic Uh 244 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: sent to infants to live with a shepherd in an 245 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: incredibly isolated part that in his kingdom, and he ensured 246 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: that they would never be spoken to. And Herodotus claimed, 247 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: according to his writings, much of their speech was nonsense, 248 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: but he believed they were babbling the words becos, which 249 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: is an ancient Phrygian word that means bread. Um. So 250 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: the pharaoh believed that Phrygia, rather than Egypt, was in 251 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: fact the oldest civilization because I mean that's the language 252 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: that came out with naturally, it was it was total swinging, 253 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: a mess, barely even a swing. Yeah. And as as 254 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: you know, folks, uh, this historian is famous for being 255 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: infamously unreliable, so take it with a grain assault. This 256 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: is not the only example, though. We know that the 257 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: Mughal Indian Emperor Akbar back in the sixteenth century also 258 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: reputedly raised children in isolation. And this guy found that 259 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: these children, when they were raised without the opportunity to 260 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: learn language in their formative years, they tended to remain 261 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: mute later and this will this plays a role in 262 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: the idea that there is a window, right, a window 263 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: of time in which certain things must be learned by 264 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: juvenile humans. It reminds me of of the case of 265 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: Genie in the young feral child who was living under horrible, abusive, 266 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: neglectful situations UM where she was basically kept in a room, 267 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: and she she was able to be taught to speak. 268 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 1: But if you don't have a need to speak, this 269 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: shows that you're probably not going to UM. More often 270 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: than not, kids in these kind of situations start to 271 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: develop sign language rather than actually speaking, because again, we 272 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 1: as children we learn by example. And Jeannie didn't speak 273 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:21,400 Speaker 1: for a long time until she was then kind of shown, 274 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: you know, some exercises and ways to to pick it up, 275 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: and she did. But you're right, then, once you get 276 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 1: past a certain threshold, just like it is for adults 277 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:31,959 Speaker 1: to learn a foreign language, it does become increasingly more 278 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: and more difficult and has nothing to do with some 279 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 1: innate language ability. I mean, it really is just about 280 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 1: how the brain is able to learn things. Yeah, it's 281 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: hardwire this is this is something I want to touch 282 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: on later too, because these experiments are ancient. But things 283 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: like this do occur much more recently than people may 284 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,879 Speaker 1: like to assume. And we'll get to a a case of 285 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: romania in a little later in the show. Maybe. But 286 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: obviously you can have noble intentions, and it's a good 287 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 1: question to ask. They just didn't have the same kind 288 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 1: of concept of ethics that people have today. So obviously, 289 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:18,360 Speaker 1: even if James were a king now in a modern monarchy, 290 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: he would still have an uphill battle ahead of him 291 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 1: if he wanted to try to do this experiment. And 292 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: even in his time, people believed that these experiments were 293 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 1: bad for kids. The Holy Roman emperor Frederick the Second 294 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 1: had tried to raise had tried to conduct a similar 295 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 1: experiment raising children this way, and people believe that the 296 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:46,399 Speaker 1: children he had raised in silence without communication had all died, 297 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 1: and some people believed that those unfortunate children on inch 298 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,680 Speaker 1: Keith died as well. But to the point you're making, 299 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:55,400 Speaker 1: and that's a very good point we have to make. 300 00:18:55,760 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: There aren't really any credible records, Like there's not a 301 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,919 Speaker 1: trail of correspondence from multiple people saying, Hey, what's up 302 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 1: with those kids on that island? I just wanted to 303 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: check in. Sorry, I've been busy being king. But don't 304 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: think I forgot. People guessed about the outcome of the experiment, 305 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: but a lot of that guessing was hearsay or second hand, 306 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 1: Like Sir Walter Scott said, Well, to me, the kids 307 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: probably just imitated whatever they heard from the local animals 308 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: around them, or maybe non language vocalizations from their adult caretakers. 309 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: Another guy, many decades later named Robert Lindsay said he 310 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 1: had heard the kids spoke perfect Hebrew. That's almost certainly 311 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: made up, right, And it's interesting that. But what do 312 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: you think the agenda is to make a claim like that? Um, 313 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: you one would think that they would claim that it 314 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 1: was you know, the King's English. You know that the 315 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,880 Speaker 1: children naturally spoke. I mean, I guess there was reverence 316 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: for Hebrew culture because of you know, Christianity and all 317 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:05,880 Speaker 1: of that, but I also know that there was division 318 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: and that jew Jewish people were often othered even in 319 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 1: this time, right, Yeah, the the Hebrew language is an 320 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: interesting claim. And you know, we have to also understand 321 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:21,120 Speaker 1: that in this time a lot of scientific experiments suffered 322 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,919 Speaker 1: from confirmation bias. Now I can't remember the name of 323 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 1: this guy, but back in the day in Europe, there 324 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: was a scientist, quote unquote, a learned man who did 325 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: what he thought was exhaustive research on the most attractive 326 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 1: face of a man, and he found, surprise, surprise, that 327 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 1: the most attractive, scientifically proven most attractive male face uh 328 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 1: did in fact look a lot like his big big 329 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 1: nose week week chin. You know, I think baldin or 330 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: something like that. So what we're saying is people kind 331 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 1: of dressed up their own opinions sometimes, and there may 332 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 1: have been kind of agenda with either Robert Lindsay or 333 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 1: whomever was telling them that. But when we speculate over 334 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: whether or not King James actually did this, we have 335 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: to also note that it could have been folklore. It 336 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: could have been just a tall tale, a legend. Because 337 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: we know he genuinely was a polyglot. We know that 338 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: he genuinely did love languages. So maybe this, along with 339 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: pre existing knowledge of other language deprivation experiments, maybe these 340 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: things combined to sound plausible enough, right, Like, maybe it 341 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 1: never happened, but everybody acknowledged it's something this dude would 342 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: have been into. Yeah, No, I completely agree. And um, 343 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: as we know, ultimately another King James was very responsible 344 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 1: for guiding the trajectory of Christianity with his King James 345 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 1: translation of the Bible. Um. And we know that there 346 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: are many translations of the Bible, but that was one 347 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 1: that kind of picked up the most steam, and it 348 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: was because he had the most cloud. So obviously that 349 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: love of language kind of ran in that in that 350 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,439 Speaker 1: family to a to a degree. Um. And we know 351 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: also that the the history is kind of written by 352 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: the victors and the folks with the most power. So 353 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 1: I think that's very interesting to think about. Yeah, and 354 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: actually I want to kind of chime in here right here. No, 355 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: that King James you speak of is actually this James's 356 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 1: great grandson known as King James the sixth and King 357 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: James the First, depending on which which kingdom you're talking about, 358 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 1: But it's true. It just goes to show that language matters, 359 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,199 Speaker 1: and that fascination obviously was something that was important to 360 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,479 Speaker 1: a generation of of King James's. But you know, so 361 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 1: many people kind of question, uh, the validity of the 362 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: King James Bible, because a lot of it was built 363 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 1: around a pretty particular perspective of a monarch, you know, yes, yeah, 364 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 1: And to go back to our guy, James the fourth, 365 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: this is where we have to ask ourselves a little 366 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: bit more about what the written record would say. We 367 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: mentioned that earlier historian Robert Lindsay he's working in the 368 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: sixteenth century. He wrote a book called History and Chronicles 369 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: of Scotland. Uh. This was almost a hundred years after 370 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 1: the fact, by the way, and he does specifically mention 371 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: this alleged experiment. He says, the king also caused to 372 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 1: take one deaf woman and put her in inch Keith, 373 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,159 Speaker 1: and give her two bairns b a I r n 374 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: s just kids with her, and furnish her in all 375 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 1: necessary things pertaining to their nourishment. Desiring hereby to know 376 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: what languages they had when they came to the age 377 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: of perfect speech. Some say they could speak Hebrew, but 378 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: for my part I know not, but from other people's reports, 379 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 1: so at least he was like, all right, some someone 380 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,120 Speaker 1: told me it was Hebrew. It seems like they probably 381 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 1: wouldn't have done that. Maybe if someone was there teaching 382 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,719 Speaker 1: them he threw, but that would be speaking to them. 383 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: That would render the experience or the experiment rather pointless. 384 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: So what happened to James? We know this experiment was 385 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 1: just one of the many things he did, but what 386 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 1: do you do after this? Well, um, he died and 387 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 1: some weird stuff happened to his body. He was considered Ultimately, 388 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: history kind of deemed him to be a pretty successful ruler. 389 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: His reign was relatively peaceful, but it was kind of 390 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: up ended by some wars with England, though they didn't 391 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 1: they weren't the aggressors, um. So there was a truce 392 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,680 Speaker 1: with England that was broken in fourteen UM and James 393 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: had to prepare an invasion to support the Perkin Warbeck, 394 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 1: who was what you'd call a pretender to the English throne, 395 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: sort of an interloper um. The war was largely fought 396 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: in a few border areas and a seven year piece 397 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 1: was negotiated in December, but there were still little skirmishes 398 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: along these borders from time to time, and relations between 399 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: England and Scotland were did continue to kind of improve 400 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: and stabilize up until three and that's when James married 401 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 1: Margaret Tudor, who was the oldest daughter of King Henry 402 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:26,120 Speaker 1: the seventh of England. And then, of course, a century later, 403 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: James's great grandson, the Stewart monarch, James the sixth of Scotland, 404 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: took the English throne. That the Bible guy. Yeah, that's 405 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: the Bible guy exactly. That's what he called himself. He's like, 406 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:48,360 Speaker 1: I'm a Bible guy, right, who can take the scriptures anyway? 407 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: So so this, uh, this leads to an interesting situation. So, 408 00:25:55,160 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: because James the fourth is well respected in this region, 409 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:05,120 Speaker 1: he is able to get a pretty equal seat at 410 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 1: the table of continental Europe. And then he goes into 411 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,719 Speaker 1: conflict with King Henry the eight famous for that oldie 412 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 1: song I'm King Henry the Eighth, I'm Henry the Eighth. 413 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 1: I am uh there it is, thank you. And so 414 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 1: so he tries to team up with France against Henry 415 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 1: the Eighth, and when Henry the Eighth invades France in 416 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: fifteen thirteen, James has all his advisers saying, all right, man, 417 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: keep a cool head, keep a cool head, bro But 418 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 1: instead he says, no, forget it, I'm going into England. 419 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: So he trashes four castles, all in the month of 420 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 1: August thirteen. But then his army gets waxed. The opposing 421 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 1: forces mopped the floor with them. It's something called the 422 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: Battle of Flowden or Flawed in f L O D 423 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 1: D E N on September nine, and this is when 424 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,399 Speaker 1: James the fourth passes away. He and most of his 425 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: nobles die in this conflict. His corps is not looking 426 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 1: what you would call open casket ready. He's been disfigured 427 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: by arrows. He eventually gets identified as people are going 428 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 1: through bodies after the battle, and then he his remains 429 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: are embalmed. He's putting a lead coffin and he's taken 430 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 1: from a place called Berwick back to London. And this 431 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: package is sent to the wife of Henry the eighth. 432 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: She takes the poor dead James's surcoat which is still 433 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 1: like it's bloody and it's ripped up because he did 434 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: not have a peaceful end, and she sends it back 435 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 1: to her husband. Catherine sends it to her husband, King 436 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: Henry the eighth, and she says something pretty metal. To 437 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: be honest with you, she says, use this as a 438 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 1: war banner. You know, forces see this dead guy's bloody coat. 439 00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: That's psychological warfare right there. Um. I mean you gotta 440 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: think like he was like basically family with them too, 441 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: because Henry the Eighth was his brother in law. Right well, 442 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: monarchy's monarchies are super into being interrelated. Uh, but that's 443 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: an his body, right. Henry eventually gets back from France 444 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 1: and people think, well, we've got this, you know, habeas corpus, 445 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: we've got this guy's body. What should we do with it? 446 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: For many of us hanging out today and Nold maxim 447 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,880 Speaker 1: sure you can agree. Uh, the idea would be like, hey, 448 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: barry the guy, he's dead. But they weren't happy with 449 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: that worthy Yeah. So um. He was in fact excommunicated 450 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: from the church um as a punishment for breaking that 451 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 1: Truce of Perpetual Peace, which is a great name for 452 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: a truce if you ask me, and that was signed 453 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: between Scotland and England two. And because of that, because 454 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: of that excommunication, the idea of a proper Christian burial 455 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: in consecrated church grounds just wasn't on the table now. 456 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: So the body of James was just left in a 457 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: wood shed of the Sheen Monastery to just kind of 458 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: you know, molder there, you know, and and like literally 459 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: like a like a tool shed. Even after the pope 460 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 1: granted permission for the burial, they were like, no, sorry, 461 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: this proceeds the purposes the word of God. So eventually 462 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: this you know, rotted corpse was just completely forgotten about 463 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 1: and somehow the head fell off. I mean that'll happen, 464 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 1: you know, if you leave something just to rot long enough, 465 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: that's gonna happen. And the story goes though there isn't 466 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: a ton of of uh, you know, documentation for this, 467 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: that some workers from the area played soccer with it, 468 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 1: kicked it around, um after which time Elizabeth, the first 469 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: master glazier, found it and took it home as a souvenir. Yeah, 470 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: and this wasn't quite the end. The head was eventually 471 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: take in the Great Saint Michael's Church in London. It 472 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: was dumped into a charnel pit. Eventually, the monastery where 473 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: the king's headless body was housed was demolished. We don't 474 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: know whether it was ever actually buried there. That church St. 475 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: Michael's also got torn down, and if you go there now, 476 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: I believe it is the site of a pub called 477 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: get this the Red Harry so things did not end well. 478 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: But one thing we do know from this story, whether 479 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: or not it is true or whether it's a tall tale, 480 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: we know that communication with children with babies, with infants 481 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: is tremendously important. We see other examples of this that 482 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: we're really heartbreaking, such as the problems with Romanian orphanages 483 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 1: that happened very very recently. And what what they found 484 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: is that these children were so neglected in these state orphanages. 485 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: They would just lay in cribs all day. Many weren't 486 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: clothed or fed or diapered on any set schedule. Um. 487 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: They would die from very minor diseases in some cases, 488 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 1: and then would have to be exposed to very serious 489 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 1: infections like HIV. This thing, it's interesting and this this 490 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: is I have a hard time articulating how disturbing this is. 491 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: These children in some cases, in many cases literally stopped 492 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: vocalizing because no one would answer their cries. They just 493 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: gave up. Wow, that's that's heartbreaking. Um, But we will 494 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 1: likely never know what happened to these children. That's the 495 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 1: fascinating part if you ask me, uh, is how did 496 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: they progress in their lives? You know, like were they 497 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: able to learn how to speak once they were returned 498 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: from the island. Were they returned from the island? Did 499 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: they live out their days on this island with nothing 500 00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: but these these nurses to take care of them? And 501 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 1: since they were presu be much older what happened when 502 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 1: they passed? The island today is actually owned by a 503 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: like a Scottish multimillionaire, a guy named Tom Farmer who's 504 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 1: the founder of a company called quick Fit. And you 505 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: have to get his permission to check out the island 506 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 1: of inch Keith. To this day, I hear there's a 507 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: nice lighthouse, but yeah, you got you gotta check with 508 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 1: Tom first, And yeah, this is This is so fascinating 509 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 1: because history is shock full of experiments that seem bizarre 510 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: or an ethical, or just even a little bit absurd. 511 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: You might say, like gluey, you know, chicken feathers to 512 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 1: yourself and jumping off a building. But we have to 513 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: remember that each one of these experiments, even if they 514 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: do seem dare I say it ridiculous here in one 515 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: they are all a part of a great endeavor, which 516 00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 1: is to understand the world a little bit better than 517 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 1: we did yesterday. And for that you can say you 518 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: know this is a noble thing. But if you are listening, 519 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 1: you're considering language experiments on children, don't do this. I 520 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: feel like that's that's not a hot take, right. We 521 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: could tell I think we're I think we're good. I 522 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: think I think we're all on the same page there. 523 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 1: But Ben, what are the kind of modern equivalent of 524 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 1: this kind of language experimentation that would be considered ethical? 525 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: Is it more modeling, kind of AI based stuff. I'm 526 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: just fascinated. You know. Obviously doing experiments on children, even 527 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 1: with permission is pretty frowned upon. But um have there. 528 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I think honestly, the whole goal of this 529 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: experiment has probably been so disproven and kind of made 530 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 1: a bit of a mockria just by you know what 531 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: we know now today that people don't just come out 532 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: with some sort of natural, you know, language of God. 533 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: It is all about nature and nurture. So maybe these 534 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 1: kind of experiments are irrelevant largely today. Yeah, I mean 535 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: it would be honestly, things would probably be a lot easier. 536 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 1: The human species ever had a single language, and people 537 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: have in the past tried to manufacture or you know, 538 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 1: purposely create a one world language, such as oh, my gosh, 539 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 1: I know people, it's such as Esperanto. You know, William 540 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,720 Speaker 1: Shatner did a film all in Esperanto and my friends 541 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 1: who speak Esperanto, because I actually know if you assure 542 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 1: me that it is hilarious because his accent is terrible. 543 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: Mr Shattner, if you're listening, that is not a ding 544 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: on you, sir, But you're right. Well. I'd love to 545 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 1: hear from people who work in the fields of you know, uh, studying, 546 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 1: language acquisition and children, and love to hear what the 547 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,360 Speaker 1: what the future of that research is. And I wonder 548 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 1: how it can be modeled. But that's that's a story 549 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 1: for the future, and our show is about history. We 550 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed this. We can't wait to hear from you. 551 00:34:55,800 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: As always, Please check us out on the internet. Come on, man, 552 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 1: so close, going so well? All right? Max? Ready, it 553 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: was bound to happen sooner or later. What's that gudible time, gentleman? 554 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 1: The quizter way? Max? Have you not have you not 555 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 1: experienced this before? Is this new for you? I have 556 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,880 Speaker 1: edited before, but I have never firsthand experienced it. But Jonathan, 557 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:40,359 Speaker 1: how are you my friend? There are no friends here, Max, adversaries, 558 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:46,920 Speaker 1: the quizter have traveled backward in time to quiz you 559 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: before the thing you'll talk about has been talked about. 560 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,440 Speaker 1: So my first question to you, hey man, come on, 561 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 1: don't don't give away the what magic? What have what 562 00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:00,799 Speaker 1: have you had talked about already that hasn't happened yet. Oh, 563 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 1: we've talked about language deprivation experiments, very famous one because 564 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:11,719 Speaker 1: you see R. Berlin. It's quite quite fortuitous because my 565 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:18,319 Speaker 1: scenarios have nothing what's ever to do with that? But 566 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you're very presence often deprives those 567 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 1: around you of language because they're so busy cringing. There's 568 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 1: a lot of there's a lot of there's a lot 569 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 1: of of of of speechless mouths when I come up. Yes, 570 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,759 Speaker 1: welcome to the the cringe eest segment of any podcast 571 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,719 Speaker 1: in existence, the equist segment, where I will present to 572 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 1: our beloved co hosts three scenarios. It is their duty 573 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 1: to determine which a vegan scenario? Three what scenarios? It's 574 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 1: just you ruined the way I say that word now 575 00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 1: like in my day to day life. It's just part 576 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 1: of part of my gig. Man. I mean, there's a 577 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,960 Speaker 1: whole like job description and right up there was ruined 578 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:12,600 Speaker 1: scenarios for Ben Bolan to check that out right, So great, 579 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,880 Speaker 1: I'm glad to help you. So for for folks who haven't, 580 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:21,400 Speaker 1: for a fellow ridiculous historians who haven't had the experience 581 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 1: of hearing this segment before, do you want you want to? 582 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 1: You want to give us a quick and dirty breakdown? Also, 583 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 1: I was working on it, but I kept getting interrupted. Right, 584 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 1: So give you three scenarios, two of which are true 585 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 1: and one that I made up seas, and then the 586 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 1: two of you must determine which of the three scenarios 587 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 1: is the fake, and you will have a few minutes 588 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,319 Speaker 1: to determine. You get to discuss amongst yourselves. And if 589 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,960 Speaker 1: you wish to ask me a question, you must first 590 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:55,000 Speaker 1: preface that question by following an arbitrary rule that I 591 00:37:55,080 --> 00:38:00,319 Speaker 1: set typically thirty seconds after I stopped talking. Know, I've 592 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,919 Speaker 1: got it. I've got it in this case, and you'll 593 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 1: understand why when I ask when you want to ask 594 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 1: a question me, I'm getting mixed up. It's been a 595 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,719 Speaker 1: long time. How are you guys doing? No? Never mind, 596 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: when I I'm ready to have you asked a question 597 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:19,640 Speaker 1: you say whale of a tale, and then you ask 598 00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 1: a question whale of a tale, and then you can 599 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 1: ask a question of me. Otherwise, just talk amongst yourselves. 600 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:31,799 Speaker 1: Are you prepared for your three scenarios? Get on with it, quister. Yeah, 601 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,319 Speaker 1: I've got the grandfather clock. We spent way too much 602 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:39,440 Speaker 1: money on in my apartment. So it's been let me 603 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,440 Speaker 1: tell you moving that he didn't even buy a pizza. 604 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,759 Speaker 1: Moving that up to your boy, What a day that was? 605 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,440 Speaker 1: All right? Here are your three scenarios. Scenario one. In 606 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 1: eighteen fifty the English Channel Submarine Telegraph Company attempted to 607 00:38:55,719 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 1: create the first telegraph wire connection between Dover, England, and Calais, France. 608 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:06,000 Speaker 1: After laying the cable under the sea, and before either 609 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,600 Speaker 1: England or France could establish a good connection, the line 610 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:14,240 Speaker 1: went dead. The newspapers placed blame upon a nameless French 611 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,360 Speaker 1: fisherman who thought he had discovered a weird type of seaweed, 612 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,400 Speaker 1: perhaps won with gold in the middle, and had cut 613 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:26,399 Speaker 1: the line through Scenario number two. In eighteen fifty five, 614 00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:32,920 Speaker 1: Norway laid a subsea cable to the isolated archipelago of Svalbard, 615 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:37,279 Speaker 1: where whalers had established communities The experiment came to an 616 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:41,680 Speaker 1: abrupt end when Tineus Olsen, the engineer stationed at Svalbard, 617 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:45,080 Speaker 1: begged to be retrieved. He claimed that the whalers had 618 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,640 Speaker 1: threatened him and had been trying to destroy the cable 619 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,720 Speaker 1: with their ship anchors. It would take another fifty years 620 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:57,360 Speaker 1: before Norway established a permanent cable connection with Svalbard. Scenario three. 621 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,799 Speaker 1: In eighteen fifty eight, the U. S Ship Niagara and 622 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,719 Speaker 1: the British ship Agamemnon met in the middle of the Atlantic, 623 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:09,200 Speaker 1: spliced two very long cables together, and then sailed in 624 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:13,880 Speaker 1: opposite directions, spooling out cable along the way. The Niagara 625 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 1: went to Newfoundland, Agamemnon went to Ireland. The cable established 626 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:22,160 Speaker 1: the first transatlantic communication wire between the UK and North America, 627 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,800 Speaker 1: but it only worked for about two months before the 628 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:29,400 Speaker 1: chief electrician, wild Man white House fried the cable with 629 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:34,440 Speaker 1: too much voltage. Begin Okay, I am running to the 630 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:40,440 Speaker 1: clock on one second, guys, go uh, these are all 631 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:44,080 Speaker 1: pretty good, pretty good. I've heard of Svalbard that seems 632 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,239 Speaker 1: like a real or maybe it's I've seen it like 633 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,719 Speaker 1: it's like a piece of ikea furniture. Um wouldn't that 634 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,080 Speaker 1: be devious, especially after saying it with such intention. Every 635 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,920 Speaker 1: time he said what's it called again, Jonathan, it almost 636 00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,000 Speaker 1: sounds like, yeah, okay, sorry, I was a quiet that 637 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,160 Speaker 1: was like I said, they you for aswing that without me? 638 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,840 Speaker 1: That was that was just that was just catering to 639 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:08,759 Speaker 1: my ego. That was just for old times quail of 640 00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:13,880 Speaker 1: a jail. Yes, Master Berlin, could you give us just 641 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:19,200 Speaker 1: the dates of those three the first when eighteen fifty 642 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:23,320 Speaker 1: for the English Channel between Dover and Clay, eighteen fifty 643 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:27,239 Speaker 1: five between the mainland of Norway and SMaL Bard at 644 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:32,880 Speaker 1: eighteen fifty eight for all Ireland to Newfoundland. Okay, so 645 00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:37,240 Speaker 1: this this to mean nol This means that they all occurred, 646 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:39,120 Speaker 1: or two of them at least occurred in a very 647 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,000 Speaker 1: close span of time, right, I mean, but this is 648 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:45,440 Speaker 1: sort of like a This represents these sort of clashes 649 00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,480 Speaker 1: of like old and new kind of where it's like 650 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,480 Speaker 1: I think most of these involved well that's not sure. 651 00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,960 Speaker 1: The second one, in particular involved is like a fisherman 652 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 1: not realizing what underwater cable was and mistaking it for 653 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,520 Speaker 1: something that seems like a stress. I feel like, you know, 654 00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,280 Speaker 1: if if if folks are out in the world. They're 655 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,680 Speaker 1: seeing this infrastructure being laid. You know, if they're professional 656 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,520 Speaker 1: seafaring folk, then they're gonna be aware of this stuff, 657 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,920 Speaker 1: unless they're like, you know, from another time, like in 658 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,839 Speaker 1: the Sino Man or something. Just to interrupt that that is, 659 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:17,600 Speaker 1: that is part of the That is part of the 660 00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:21,120 Speaker 1: first scenario, not the second one. Just so that just 661 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:24,160 Speaker 1: so that you know which ones you're picking. Okay, So 662 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:26,680 Speaker 1: the first one also had a bit of good old 663 00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:31,320 Speaker 1: fashioned greed right seaweed with believes there were going for 664 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,239 Speaker 1: the goal. That's okay, So that's the one I'm gonna 665 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:38,640 Speaker 1: maybe cancel out. Um, I don't know, man, I'm gonna 666 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,000 Speaker 1: go asval Bard? Are you gonna go as val Bar? 667 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:46,080 Speaker 1: Then we're we're a little a little because for some reason, 668 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,080 Speaker 1: I just wanted to pick the third one, not because 669 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,960 Speaker 1: of the content, but because of the way that the 670 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:56,520 Speaker 1: quisters sayings val Bard to bring attention to it. Um, 671 00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:58,880 Speaker 1: what do you think you want to consult Max? We 672 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:00,919 Speaker 1: got we can game show of this, We can show 673 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:05,480 Speaker 1: a friend and you guys want me in. I am 674 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,960 Speaker 1: with nol. Initially hearing them, I was like, it's the 675 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:09,960 Speaker 1: number two, That's what I'm gonna go with all right, 676 00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:15,320 Speaker 1: then let's lock it in three two one number two 677 00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:19,960 Speaker 1: Max Max. What the hell did I do to you? 678 00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,319 Speaker 1: All right? Listen, I had a good thing going. You 679 00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,719 Speaker 1: come in, you ruin everything. Number two was the made 680 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:32,640 Speaker 1: up seas right, So number one with the French fisherman 681 00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:37,279 Speaker 1: who cut through the wire thinking that it was a 682 00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:41,000 Speaker 1: strange form of seaweed, That's what the newspapers reported. It 683 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:45,680 Speaker 1: was not necessarily what actually happened. What probably happened was 684 00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:49,160 Speaker 1: that the cable, which had no armor sheathing on it, 685 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,279 Speaker 1: rubbed against the rocks because of the action of waves 686 00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:55,400 Speaker 1: and broke apart on its own. But the newspapers reported 687 00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:58,920 Speaker 1: that it was potentially a French fisherman who just played 688 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:02,279 Speaker 1: did not know better and cut through it, And of 689 00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,239 Speaker 1: course the Agamemnon and the Niagara did in fact meat 690 00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:07,719 Speaker 1: in the middle of the ocean. This was the second attempt. 691 00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:10,919 Speaker 1: The first time they tried to go from Ireland all 692 00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,520 Speaker 1: the way to Newfoundland with one ship picking up where 693 00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:17,160 Speaker 1: the end of the cable left off for ship number one, 694 00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:21,160 Speaker 1: but that did not work. It broke apart, and so 695 00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,200 Speaker 1: they ended up trying it again, and they started in 696 00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,839 Speaker 1: the middle of the Atlantic and went opposite directions that 697 00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:30,200 Speaker 1: worked for about two months. It also took sixty seven 698 00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:33,799 Speaker 1: minutes for Queen Victoria's message to be sent across the 699 00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:39,040 Speaker 1: Transatlantic cable to arrive for President James Buchanan. And it 700 00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:44,640 Speaker 1: wasn't even she said. She said, Dear Jimmy, BRIT's rule, 701 00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:50,239 Speaker 1: Americans drool love Vicky Vicky Taylor's all this time. I 702 00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:52,240 Speaker 1: didn't realize that it took so long for those messages 703 00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:55,440 Speaker 1: to be transmitted. That's interesting. Well, if you would like 704 00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,320 Speaker 1: to learn more about why you can listen to tech stuff, 705 00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:03,520 Speaker 1: because I totally just corded episodes about it, so Smith, Yeah, 706 00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,359 Speaker 1: that that is true. Jonathan. In addition to being our 707 00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:10,640 Speaker 1: nemeses again long time listeners, you know this well, you 708 00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:16,440 Speaker 1: do so many things. You've got the best tech podcast 709 00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:20,239 Speaker 1: out there on the internet, as verified and confirmed by 710 00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:23,560 Speaker 1: US here at Ridiculous History, comes out five days week 711 00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,440 Speaker 1: uh and it is also one of the older shows 712 00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:28,759 Speaker 1: on our network. It's one of the first podcast we 713 00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:32,600 Speaker 1: ever started doing. If you want to learn anything about technology, 714 00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,000 Speaker 1: that is your go to. But that's not all you do, 715 00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:38,600 Speaker 1: is it? Qrist No No No. I also host a 716 00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,400 Speaker 1: co host a show called large Ner drawn Kaleider that 717 00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,960 Speaker 1: publishes every Thursday, where I and believe it or not, 718 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:49,840 Speaker 1: my friend, Yes, I do have one named Ariel. She 719 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,439 Speaker 1: and I talked about the latest geek news of the week, 720 00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,160 Speaker 1: and then we mash up two geek properties that never 721 00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:58,480 Speaker 1: should meet one another and say, what would happen if 722 00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,239 Speaker 1: they had a baby? Is she all so a soulless 723 00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:06,040 Speaker 1: supervillain type figure? She's real? She goes to another podcast. Yeah, 724 00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:09,520 Speaker 1: she's yes, exactly, she's my She's my podcast girlfriend from Canada. 725 00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:12,759 Speaker 1: And then, finally, finally, I host a show called The 726 00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:17,080 Speaker 1: Restless Ones, which is all about talking with very important 727 00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:22,680 Speaker 1: executives about technology and leadership. And that one is a 728 00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:27,520 Speaker 1: al right, fine, fine, fine, I'm giving you a hard times. 729 00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,880 Speaker 1: Sometimes I fall asleep when I especially man, if you 730 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,200 Speaker 1: if you asked me to q a an episode, forget it. 731 00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:37,920 Speaker 1: That's that's Z time. Oh yes, bit of Inside Baseball. 732 00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:41,120 Speaker 1: This is funny. So we were talking. We got on 733 00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:44,920 Speaker 1: air and had said, Jonathan, you know, it's it's good 734 00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,640 Speaker 1: to see you. How are you. Uh we it's been 735 00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:51,440 Speaker 1: too long. We name drop you at the end of 736 00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:56,000 Speaker 1: every episode, and then there was a temperature on our recording. 737 00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,600 Speaker 1: You could feel it palpably mower in the room and 738 00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:05,239 Speaker 1: he said, oh, I've heard it. I was like, you 739 00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,759 Speaker 1: don't listen to our show. It's all good fun. It's 740 00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,600 Speaker 1: all in good fun. We love you, Jonathan and your 741 00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:14,919 Speaker 1: your your alter ego the Quister, and always glad when 742 00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:18,760 Speaker 1: you darken our doorstep and lower our zoom room podcast temperature. 743 00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:21,600 Speaker 1: I hope that the two of you have a wonderful 744 00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:26,160 Speaker 1: conversation about the thing that everyone else has already heard. Yes, 745 00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:30,000 Speaker 1: thank you, we we do too. Oh god, you're really 746 00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:32,120 Speaker 1: messing my head up on this one. Me gone Quister, 747 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:39,680 Speaker 1: Quister out and there he goes, there he goes. You know, um, 748 00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:41,440 Speaker 1: I hate to see him leave, but love to watch 749 00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:44,480 Speaker 1: him walk away. Yeah, Like I prefer it when he 750 00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:46,720 Speaker 1: just kind of de materializes into a puff of smoke. 751 00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:50,720 Speaker 1: That's always nice. Yeah, it's this the smoke budget is well. 752 00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:53,040 Speaker 1: You know, that's a lot of inside baseball folks, but 753 00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:56,560 Speaker 1: we're we're hard at work. Max. You have survived your 754 00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:00,399 Speaker 1: first encounter with Jonathan Strickland a k. The Quister. You'll 755 00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:02,160 Speaker 1: never be the same. Though, you'll never be the same 756 00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:04,399 Speaker 1: now it stays with you it gets, It gets into 757 00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,520 Speaker 1: your soul. So I think at this point maybe the 758 00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,560 Speaker 1: three of us, uh call it a day, gets some 759 00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,000 Speaker 1: rest and recuperation from that. Well, it's not that bad. 760 00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:20,160 Speaker 1: We won you know, be a credit for that too, now, now, 761 00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:22,200 Speaker 1: not all credit. I I was, I was, I was 762 00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:24,560 Speaker 1: barking up the right tree. You just joined me in 763 00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,840 Speaker 1: that tree and helped sway. Ben. And for the I 764 00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,600 Speaker 1: get fifty, you get fifty, band gets zero. Okay, that 765 00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,120 Speaker 1: sounds fair. What do you say? Yeah, I'm fine with that. 766 00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:38,480 Speaker 1: I have a good friend. Street name is zero. Well, then, 767 00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:40,840 Speaker 1: the first and foremost we must thank our super producer 768 00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:43,720 Speaker 1: Max Williams for rescuing us from the tyranny of the quister, 769 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:47,280 Speaker 1: who we will also think with you know less sincerity, um. 770 00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,040 Speaker 1: But also thanks to you, Ben Hey, thanks to you 771 00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:53,839 Speaker 1: for coming over to the light side. You know, I 772 00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:58,120 Speaker 1: believe in the benefits of democracy, so you know, historically 773 00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:01,480 Speaker 1: I'm trying to pull everybody in on on so many things. 774 00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:04,719 Speaker 1: So the power of voting matters, folks. That's that's our 775 00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:09,440 Speaker 1: takeaway there. Yeah uh, and thanks of course to Alex Williams, 776 00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:13,280 Speaker 1: Thanks to Christopher Aciotis, thanks to Eve's Jeff Coat. Thanks 777 00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:17,000 Speaker 1: to Jonathan Strickland ak the Quister, who has just done 778 00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:20,440 Speaker 1: so much for the tourism industry of small Bard, which 779 00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,200 Speaker 1: is a very interesting place. By the way, it's one 780 00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:26,120 Speaker 1: of the few places. It's one of the easiest places 781 00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:30,640 Speaker 1: to migrate to in all of Europe because the weather 782 00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:34,560 Speaker 1: is a little rough. Thanks also to let's see who else. Oh, 783 00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:37,840 Speaker 1: thanks to Gabe. Yeah, thanks to Gabe Luisier for hipping 784 00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:41,120 Speaker 1: us to this incredibly fascinating topic that we have definitely 785 00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,280 Speaker 1: already recorded. Yeah, yeah, we'll do. Okay, we'll do okay, 786 00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:55,040 Speaker 1: it's all lies. We'll see you next time, folks. For 787 00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:57,279 Speaker 1: more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart 788 00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:00,239 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen of your 789 00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:01,400 Speaker 1: favorite shows.