1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Elizabeth Warren, on the 2 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:10,239 Speaker 1: other hand, is not as we told you. Will be 3 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: joined here by the Democratic Senator from Massachusetts, having issued 4 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: a blistering statement following this FED decision, Kaylee, saying the 5 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: entire Federal Reserve Board, including appointees of both parties, should 6 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: be embarrassed. She's with us now, the Democrat from Massachusetts, 7 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: live from Capitol Hill. Senator, it's great to see you 8 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 1: back on Bloomberg TV and radio. You are demanding five 9 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 1: years of exam reports from Wells Fargo, and I wonder 10 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: what leverage you have here how far you would go 11 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: to get them. Would you threaten to hold up the nomination, 12 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: for instance, of Michelle Bowman as the Fed's Vice Chair 13 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:46,160 Speaker 1: of Supervision to get them. 14 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 2: Look, I'm already opposed to having Michelle Bowman as the 15 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 2: Vice chair for Supervision. This is someone who has never 16 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 2: seen a regulation for a giant bank that she wasn't 17 00:00:56,120 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 2: willing to cut or undermine. But understand this about Wells Fargo. 18 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 2: I think before you decide to lift this big penalty 19 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 2: that's been in place for Wells Fargo for seven years now, 20 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 2: you should ask for maybe one year in which they 21 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 2: aren't caught breaking the law. Remember that in January of 22 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 2: this year, the SEC tagged Wells Fargo for cheating investors. 23 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 2: In December, the CFPB tagged Wells Fargo for cheating American 24 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:31,759 Speaker 2: consumers fight it with way to the tune of over 25 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 2: eight hundred million dollars. And in September the OCC tagged 26 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 2: Wells Fargo for money laundry. So we have the three 27 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 2: big banking regulators all saying Wells Fargo's out there, still 28 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 2: breaking the law. And then a report just a few 29 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 2: weeks ago by former and current Wells Fargo employees saying 30 00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 2: that the very activities that Wells Fargo is engaged in 31 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 2: seven years ago, where they created fake accounts for people 32 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 2: and so on because they were pressing their employees to 33 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 2: get those numbers in to get more people signed up 34 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 2: for more accounts, that that same activity is occurring today. 35 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 2: And those are the circumstances under which the Fed unanimously says, hey, 36 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 2: Wells Fargo, get on out of here. You don't need 37 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:27,119 Speaker 2: any extra regulation. 38 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 3: Now. 39 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 2: That just doesn't wash. 40 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 3: Do you see any potential benefit here, Senator though, of 41 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 3: Wells Fargo being able to better compete with other big 42 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 3: banks for the competitive landscape to change in that way. 43 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 2: Look, I'm all for competition, but I don't think that 44 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 2: cheaters ought to have a leg up in competing. And 45 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 2: that's really the part to remember here about Wells Fargo. 46 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 2: The reason we want to have good enforcement of all 47 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 2: of the banking laws is that the banks that actually 48 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 2: follow the law, the banks that aren't engaged in money laundering, 49 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 2: or the banks that are not cheating their investors, that 50 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 2: those banks ought to be able to play on a 51 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 2: level playing field. And Wells Fargo, we know starting seven 52 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 2: years ago that Wells Fargo was so boosting its profits 53 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 2: and by the way, it's CEO compensation based on cheating 54 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 2: American customers. And in fact, it was so awful what 55 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 2: they did that it wasn't just civil penalties. They were 56 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 2: in violation of criminal laws. So the idea that, boyd, 57 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 2: we want to get them right back out there competing 58 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 2: with the other banks at a time when their own 59 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 2: employees are saying, hey, they're back to doing the stuff 60 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 2: they were doing before. That's that's not the direction we 61 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 2: want to go. 62 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: Senator Elizabeth Warren Live with us on Bloomberg TV and 63 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: Radio I'm going to ask you to walk with me 64 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: here for a second, Senator, because I don't know if 65 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: Donald Trump is watching us right now, but the President 66 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: is posting about you right now, just on truth Social 67 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: Donald Trump writes, quote, I am very pleased to announce that, 68 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: after all these years, I agree with Senator Elizabeth Warren 69 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: on something. The debt limit should be entirely scrapped to 70 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: prevent an economic catastrophe. He's reposting you here where you 71 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 1: suggest as much. This is less than twenty four hours 72 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: after Elon Musk said shame on Republicans who passed the 73 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: reconciliation bill in the House. You're finding yourself within a 74 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: twenty four hour period, agreeing with Donald Trump and Elon Musk. 75 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 1: What's going on around here? 76 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 2: Well, look, I think on the debt ceiling, I've been 77 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 2: on this for many, many years. The debt ceiling is 78 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 2: just something that's been used as leverage in negotiations. The 79 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 2: United States should never never threaten to default on its debt. 80 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:54,919 Speaker 2: We should get rid of this debt ceiling altogether. When 81 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 2: we pass a bill saying that we're going to do 82 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 2: a certain thing, that is our saying, and we're going 83 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 2: to pay for it. That's what the United States government does. 84 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 2: So I think that Donald Trump and I, hey listen, 85 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 2: I'm ready to join up with him and make that happen. 86 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 2: We need to get rid of the debt ceiling altogether, 87 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 2: not extend it. Not say ooh, while this is going 88 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 2: on this budget negotiation, let's just roll out a few 89 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 2: trillion dollars more in the debt ceiling. Nope, that has 90 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 2: gotten us into trouble before, it continues to get us 91 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 2: into trouble. Donald Trump is right, let's get rid of 92 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 2: it all together. 93 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 3: Well, So, Senator, if we are to see if the 94 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 3: Senate and House cannot get this reconciliation bill through in 95 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 3: time for the mid July request the Treasury Secretary has 96 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 3: made to avoid bumping up against the X state, would 97 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 3: you support an initiative like that, separately, a legislative effort 98 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 3: to eliminate the debt ceiling before that X state comes. 99 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 2: Now, look, we should do it now. There's no reason 100 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 2: to delay. Donald Trump. That's exactly right on this. It's 101 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 2: what I've been arguing for literally for years, and that 102 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:07,919 Speaker 2: is get rid of the debt ceiling. It's serving no 103 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 2: function except for holdout parties. To try to use in negotiations, 104 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 2: and that makes no sense, that doesn't serve our nation. 105 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 2: But we should do that now. It doesn't need to 106 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 2: be tied to anything, it doesn't need any special date 107 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 2: on it. Ask the Republicans, they're the ones in control 108 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 2: of the floor. Let's bring that to the floor right now. 109 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,720 Speaker 2: It's a simple piece of legislation. I'm ready to go 110 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 2: on it. I think it's the right thing for us 111 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 2: to do. 112 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: Senator, I want to ask you, from your perch on 113 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: the Armed Services Committee about what else we heard from 114 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 1: Donald Trump today. He had an hour and fifteen minute 115 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 1: long call with Vladimir Putin. At the end of the call, 116 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: he wrote about it and said that peace is not 117 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: imminent in Ukraine. He did say, however, that Putin will 118 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: have to respond to the recent attack on the airfields 119 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: that Ukraine conducted over the weekend using this wild scheme 120 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: with drones that had been smuggled into the country. What 121 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: do you make of this assessment and what is Ukraine 122 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: in for in the days ahead? 123 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 2: Right? Look, Vladimir Putin has been playing Donald Trump, and 124 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 2: pretty much everybody in the world can see that's just 125 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 2: me seeing it, not just people in the United States 126 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 2: see it. Leaders around the world see it. And it 127 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 2: looks like Donald Trump is beginning to figure that out 128 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 2: and starting to push back against Putin. We owe it 129 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 2: to Ukraine to do everything we can to support them 130 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 2: in their fight. They are on the front lines fighting 131 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 2: for democracy, and they are in the front lines against 132 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 2: an expansionist Russia. Understand this. If Ukraine falls and Vladimir 133 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 2: Putin gets either a big chunk of it or all 134 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 2: of it, He's not stopping there. He's coming for more 135 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 2: and more and more, because that's who Vladimir Putin is. 136 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 2: It is important right now to help Ukraine push back. 137 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 2: They are on the front lines fighting the war for 138 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 2: democracy on behalf of all of Europe, on behalf of 139 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 2: the United States, on behalf of freedom loving countries everywhere 140 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 2: in the world, and we should give them all the 141 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 2: support we can. 142 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 3: All right, Senator, we appreciate you joining us on Bloomberg 143 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 3: TV and radio. The Democratic Senator from Massachusetts, also ranking 144 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 3: member of the Senate Banking Committee, Elizabeth Warren with us 145 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 3: here on balance of Power.