WEBVTT - Jon Cavalier 0:00:00.560 --> 0:00:04.000 All right, we're back for another episode of the Friday Podcast. 0:00:04.720 --> 0:00:09.360 This week, we are talking with John Cavalier. He is 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:14.800 the famed Twitter and Instagram account linked gems. Many of 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:18.200 you probably already follow him on Twitter. If you don't, 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:23.640 definitely recommend checking him out. He takes spectacular photos of 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:28.840 golf courses and is a self proclaimed golf junkie. So 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:35.680 we're gonna talk golf photography, golf course architecture, and you know, 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:39.080 kind of golf courses tonight. So John, thanks so much 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:39.640 for coming on. 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:43.120 Andy might play. You're a big fan. Thank you for 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:44.120 having me. 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:48.560 Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I think you know the 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:51.239 thing that everybody would love to know is you know 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:55.600 a little bit about the man behind links gems. 0:00:56.360 --> 0:01:02.560 I'll give you as as best I can. So I'm 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:05.520 a full time lawyer that that career tempt to pay 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:08.520 the bills. I'm based out of Philly. I worked for 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:12.640 a rather large law firm doing labor and employment work, 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:18.080 litigation and trial work, which is interesting and keeps the 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:21.959 lights on at home and on the side, obviously, I 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:23.639 play a lot of golf. I'm based out of Philly, 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:26.959 so I like to get back and check in on 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:31.039 the courses in my hometown and the surrounding areas, But 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:33.440 I also travel a lot boks will working for fun 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:36.600 and when I do, I I certainly like to see 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:39.040 the golf that other areas of the country. That's offer. 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:42.440 But I really summed it up. I'm born and raised 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:46.600 in Philly. That's that's leaks shams in a nutshell. 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:51.160 So tell us a little bit about how you got 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:55.560 into golf and when when did you just when did 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:58.800 you start taking pictures? Were you always into photography or 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:01.680 was it something that it kind of came later in life? 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:06.680 You know, that's an interesting question. Both the golf and 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:10.640 the photography came rather late, at least later than most people. 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:14.320 I guess. I didn't play golf until late in college. 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:18.880 I had never played the game growing up. For handicapper, 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:22.519 I certainly wish that I'd started earlier now, but such 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:25.480 as life. The first round of golf I ever played 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:29.160 was a round that was set up by my father's 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:33.240 boss at a course near here called Heartfelt National. They 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:36.040 had the guy drop out and we're desperately scrambling to 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:38.560 fill out the forsome so they asked me if I 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:41.200 wanted to tag along and play and you know, growing up, 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:45.639 I was always a baseball, football, basketball kind of guy, 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:48.720 you know, the core sports, and considering myself, you know, 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:51.440 I want to be athlete in the regular sports, so 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:54.160 to speak. And frankly, it always kind of looked down 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:58.800 at golf as both a recreational thing and a professional thing. 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:01.200 I never watched it on TV, never really got into it. 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:05.400 So I sort of begrudgingly agreed to go tag along 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:08.840 with these guys and see what gos was all about, 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:10.640 thinking both that I would be bored out of my 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:12.760 mind and that it would be the easiest sports that 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:17.519 I'd ever played. And obviously I was wrong on both counts. 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:21.800 Shot one hundred and twenty six. Still remember that very clearly, 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:27.119 and was absolutely hooked from the very first home. I mean, 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:30.000 you hear people talk about with the golf bug. It 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:33.359 bit me, and it bit me hard. From that point on, 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:36.840 I think since then, I have been playing as much 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:42.360 as I humanly possibly can, getting out constantly, and it's 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:45.120 been great because it's given my father and I have 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:47.120 a common ground and a common thing to do together, 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:50.840 which is obviously a big benefit that I think a 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:52.800 lot of people share in the game of golf. So 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:55.840 that started me off. And now, since I guess I'm 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:59.360 getting older here, that was about fifteen years ago and 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:03.160 I've been ever since. The photography came much much later, 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:05.200 at least as it relates to golf. I've always been 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:08.800 somewhat interested in photography. I mean, I've never never taken 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:14.000 classes or done anything, you know, official with respect to photography, 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:16.400 but there's always be something that it's been an interest 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:21.000 of mine I casually pursue. I mean, I've always owned 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:24.000 a camera. I take it with me on vacations, annoying 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:27.800 my wife, you know, things like that. But the two 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:30.800 had two didn't really combined seriously until about three four 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:34.720 years ago, when, for whatever reason, I happened to have 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:36.920 a camera with me when I was going to play 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:40.040 a particular golf course. I don't even remember which one 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:43.359 it was, but I took some pictures while I was there. 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:46.600 They came out fairly well, so I posted them online 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:50.000 and got a nice response. And even more than that, 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:54.720 I realized that taking the photos and having them actually 0:04:55.160 --> 0:05:00.440 heightened my enjoyment of the round and help me to 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:04.040 experience the joy of playing a really nice new golf course. 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:07.520 Over a longer period of time. So it's nice to 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:09.279 have to go back and sort of relive some of 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:11.880 the course and look at the photos and see things 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:15.320 that I might have missed. And it also makes the 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:17.919 round itself a little more enjoyable because I'm looking for 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:20.640 certain things while I play and shoot that I might 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:24.839 not otherwise be looking for or care about, depending on 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:27.159 how on or off my actual golf game is on 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:28.799 a given day. You know, if you if you're playing 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:30.800 well and hitting it down the middle, you have a 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:33.240 tendency to ignore a lot of the course that you 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:36.839 might otherwise see. So in an event four or five 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:39.000 years ago through four years ago, I started taking some 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:44.200 photos here and there, and since then it's it's the 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:49.440 response to the photos I've taken and to sharing them 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:54.239 online and on various websites have been extraordinarily positive, which 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:58.720 is certainly in encouragement to keep it going. So I've 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:01.039 been doing it since then and that I've really been 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:04.200 getting a kick out of it since it's been nice. 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:07.680 So so with the photos, I mean, you know, you 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:11.080 started and you're you're an average joe like all of us, 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:15.640 and you know what are like some of the Yeah, 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:18.960 so what you know, obviously where what the pictures you 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:22.960 post now, you know, for somebody, even for me, I 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:27.280 take pictures around a golf course. I'm colorblind, I'm kind 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:31.120 of an idiot, so I'm not I'm not good at 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:34.640 taking pictures. You know, some things I've picked up our elevation, 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:36.960 you know, I watched for a light. But I don't 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:39.400 really know what I'm doing. But what are some like 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:43.840 really easy things that you did that you saw drastic 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:48.240 jumps with your you know, abilities of taking pictures. 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:51.760 That's actually another really good question. The first thing I 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:56.040 will tell you is that the practice is invaluable. Especially 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:59.200 when I was just kicking this all, I would shoot 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:03.880 a ton of photos than I still do. And after 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:06.800 the fact, when you review them, you see what works 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:10.640 better than other things, what photos came out nicer than others, 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:14.080 and you start to realize some commonalities between them, and 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:16.840 you learn why certain photos look better than others and 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:20.440 why some come out looking like crap. And even now 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:24.320 I probably throw half of the photos that I take 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:27.440 on a given day in the virtual trash can, so 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:30.240 to speak, because they didn't come out well for one 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:33.080 reason or another. So it's definitely a learning process, and 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:39.000 practice is obviously a key point of that learning process. 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:42.640 Beyond that, it's you know, photography is really just all 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:45.760 about capturing the lights in the right way. So once 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:49.679 you learn how light interacts with whatever camera you're using, 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:50.600 it goes a. 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:54.280 Long way towards understanding why certain photos look nice and 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:59.600 others don't. And unfortunately, to the extent we're outdoors, we 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:01.920 don't really have control over the light. So there are 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:04.280 going to be days where the light is bad and 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:06.560 you're going to come home with an entire role of 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:09.760 pretty mediocre photos. There's other days where it's perfect and 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:12.760 you can't possibly take a bad shot. So some of 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:16.360 it is out of your hands. With respect to taking 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:19.200 pictures of certain things that you can you can look 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:22.000 back on and determine whether you like or not. I 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:26.840 like to experiment with different angles and different perspectives that 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:30.320 you don't usually see most people you see online, they 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:33.079 stand on the t box, they take a photo. They 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:34.800 stand in the middle of the fairway, they take a 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:37.079 photo of the green. Maybe they get up closer to 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:39.560 the green and they take a picture. It's sort of one, two, 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:43.000 three in a row of the natural progression of a 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:45.440 golf hole. The biggest thing I would recommend as part 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:47.480 of the practice is just to get off the straight 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:51.839 line path and do some things that are different. Shoot 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:53.600 from behind the green with the pin in the center 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:56.319 of the frame, looking back up the fairway. Shoot from 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:59.000 inside of a bunker, get down low and shoot the 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:02.760 green surface. You can see how the green rolls and moves. 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:07.240 Shoot at different times a day. Obviously, the best time 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:09.600 of day I think to shoot is in the hour 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:13.120 or so before sunset, but dawn is a wonderful time. 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:16.320 Depending on how the clouds look at a given day, 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:19.200 you can get out there in the brightest part of 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:21.600 the afternoon and get some really neat shots. But the 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:25.160 point is you really need to learn what works for 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:27.920 your own eye, and the only way to do that, 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:31.520 at least in my in my sphere of knowledge here, 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:34.200 is to shoot a ton of photos. Shoot as many 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:36.000 as you can, as often as you can, in as 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:38.480 many different conditions as you can, and sooner or little 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:41.800 you will learn what you like and what the people 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:45.480 you share your photos with like, and it becomes easier 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:47.400 over time. I generally know now as soon as I 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:49.000 step on the first tea, if I have my camera 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:51.200 with me, whether it's going to be a good day 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:54.120 for photos or whether they're going to come out looking 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:57.439 like prep And that just comes with shooting a ton 0:09:57.440 --> 0:09:58.400 of photos over time. 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:03.160 So do you carry like when you say you're you're 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:05.720 going out to play, do you carry like a is 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:08.839 it a bigger camera or is it a smaller one? 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:11.079 Or do you use your phone a lot of times? 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:13.640 You know, if you're if you're playing with save four 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:15.559 buddies or three buddies. 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:22.920 So it depends where I'm playing. If I'm heading down 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:25.160 to the club to play around, or I'm going to 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:27.120 a course that I've played a hundred times or that 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:30.079 I already have photos of, I'll usually just carry my phone. 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:32.000 But if I'm going to a place where I know 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:33.880 I'm going to want to take photos, especially if it's 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:36.520 a new course that I've ever played, or if it's 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:38.840 a course that I know is going to lend itself 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:41.920 really well to photos, I'll bring my camera. And I 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:44.200 usually do try to bring my camera to to most 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:46.240 of the places that I go. I don't shoot with 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:48.800 a big camera. I don't shoot with the DSLR I 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:52.079 have one, but I shoot the majority of my photos 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:56.000 while i'm playing. Uh, And you obviously can't carry a 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:58.360 around the next DSLR when you're playing around to go, 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:02.559 So I shoot with a with a Sony Mark five 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:07.040 DSc one hundred, which is a very small point and 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:11.120 shoot camera that fits in your pocket. You can stick 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:13.040 it in your pot, your pants pocket, or your shirt 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:15.880 pocket while you're playing and easily play around the golf 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:19.959 without bothering you. And it takes terrific photos. Uh. It's 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:22.839 the camera that I recommend to everyone. It's not the 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:25.080 cheapest camera you're ever going to see for point and shoot, 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:28.200 but it is absolutely tremendous for golf photos and pro 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:33.199 photos of of whatever you want to shoot. It's really terrific. 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:36.200 There are I guess a few occasions where i'll i'll, 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:38.360 and I could probably count them on one hand over 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:41.360 the last five years where I've shot golf with with 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:45.480 the big dfl R. I don't think it makes much 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:48.240 of a difference. You know, somebody hired me to go 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:51.720 to their golf course to shoot photos. That's probably the 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:54.520 camera that I've used, just because it gives me maximum 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:58.360 flexibility both with the camera and in terms of editing 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:00.960 the shots afterwards. But they're all playing around the golf 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:03.079 and you know, I'm not I'm not lugging that thing 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:05.240 around with me and I'm not going back out after 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:08.560 the round. I shoot ninety five percent of my photos 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:09.720 while I'm playing golf. 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:13.040 I think that's the way to do it. It's like a 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:16.400 I've noticed, you know, I'm trying to up my game 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:20.360 with camp with the pictures, but I've noticed that the 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:24.760 first round where I started taking lots of pictures and 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:27.640 trying to play with buddies, it was it was so hard. 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:31.120 You know, You're like, you're you're running around the golf. 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:35.200 I felt like I walked to eighteen's, you know, and 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:38.240 my buddies were, you know, out running ahead of me, 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:39.320 and I'm like, slow down. 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:39.600 You know. 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:42.200 It's a It took a little time, but now I 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:44.839 feel like once you get used to it, you've become 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:47.240 like a pro and you're kind of out ahead of 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:49.880 everybody absolutely. 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:52.120 And that's another thing that practice will help with. The 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:54.880 more you do it, the more natural whole process seems in, 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:57.959 the easier it comes. One of the things that when 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:01.520 I'm doing this, my my number one cardinal rule when 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:04.880 I'm out shooting golf is don't slow the group down 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:06.760 and don't annoy the people that I am playing with. 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:10.640 So I'm a very fast golfer anyway. I know everybody 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:15.360 says that, but I play golf to the point that 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:18.960 it's probably hurting my game. I play so quick. I 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:21.760 just don't have much chalance for slow golf. It's actually, 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:24.280 you know, sort of a pet peeve of mine. So 0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:28.400 I've been getting used to doing this. It's very easy 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:31.400 for me to both hit my ball and take photos 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:34.600 and still easily keep up with most people that I 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:39.280 play with. You if you find yourself slowing down your group, 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:42.319 not only are you going to take photos that probably 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:44.440 don't live up to your own expectations, but you're going 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:47.599 to play poor golf. And to me, that sort of 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:49.840 defeats the purpose. I mean, I'm out there, first and 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:52.000 foremost to play an enjoyable around the golf with the 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:55.400 people that I'm with. If taking photos is cutting into that, 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:58.480 I stop taking the photos. I mean, it's important to 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:00.880 keep your priority straight. I mean, really is about the golf, 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:04.599 not necessarily about the photos. So if the photos, I 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:07.040 guess what I'm trying to say. The photos are very 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:09.160 much a by product of around the golf. They're not 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:12.000 the primary reason of there, So I try very hard 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:14.080 to make sure that that perspective remained complaint. 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:17.520 Yeah, yeah, I think it's a good one to keep. 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:22.400 It's so, we got a ton of great questions in 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:26.280 from Twitter, and I wanted to make this one a 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:29.160 little different where we kind of just go through the 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:32.480 questions and let that kind of guide the conversation and 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:36.960 we can get on tangents, you know, galore from these questions. 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:42.080 So the first one is from Kyle and he just 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:46.080 wants to know, and I saw somebody seconded this, how 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:48.800 on earth are you able to see and play so 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:51.600 many great courses? 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:56.640 So that's obviously a good question, and I'll answer it 0:14:56.640 --> 0:15:01.640 this way. Unfortunate in that I have have a good 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:06.840 job that involves travel, I have no children, and I 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:12.320 have an extraordinarily tolerant wife. So that is really, I 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:15.960 think the sort of a key to being able to 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:19.400 to travel around and see different golf courses in different places. 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:21.840 You know, when you're not worrying about you're gonna put 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:24.880 your kid through school, or you know your wife is 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:28.840 not in your ear constantly about taking her to somewhere 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:33.680 to a vacation, it's a lot easier to go see 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:37.360 these courses, and then as far as sort of the 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:40.200 second part of that question, I guess an access question. 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:46.680 I've been very lucky in that I've met so many 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:51.560 amazing people through golf. I cannot tell you how many 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:55.280 people I've met over the last fifteen years through golf 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:59.920 that I now consider my dearest friends. And that network 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:05.840 is a really useful tool, uh, when you're specifically seeking 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:09.560 out a certain course that you really want to see. 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:13.040 I was down in Florida last week and a very 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:16.040 good buddy of mine, who is a member of a 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:18.240 couple of clubs down south, was able to set up 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:21.440 seminal for us. He knew that I really wanted to 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:23.800 see it, and he was kind enough to set it 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:28.080 up for me without even asking. I have found that 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:31.000 people who love golf also happened to be some of 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:35.760 the most generous people that I've ever I've ever encountered. Uh, 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:39.280 And I think you'll you'll probably second this. People who 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:43.080 love golf just want to be around and play golf 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:46.040 and talk golf with other people who are enough about 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:51.200 the game like they are. So if if Conner here 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:55.200 is asking for advice on how to see courses, or 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:57.960 if there's a course that he might have an interest 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:01.120 in playing. A big part of it is just putting 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:03.360 yourself out there and meeting other people who love golf. 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:05.679 I mean, you never know when you run into a 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:09.159 guy who has a sweater own that has a logo, 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:13.040 of of course you recognize of conversation with him, you 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:16.480 never know where that guy is a member at, and 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:19.159 he might become a useful contact in the future, and 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:21.960 more importantly than that, he might become a buddy that 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:26.680 joins your Sunday force and later one of your friends, 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:28.920 or a buddy who you go on golf trips. But 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:30.680 I can't tell you I'm any golf trips I've gone 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:34.159 on with people I hadn't met before we arrived at 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:37.760 wherever we were going with golf. I just think it's 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:43.160 such a communal game in that respect, and it's really 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:46.240 interesting to see how the more people you meet, the 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:48.920 bigger your sort of world gets and your ability to 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:51.960 see the places you want to see. And then obviously 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:55.919 the corollary to that is it's just important to be 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:58.840 a generous person and somebody that people like to spend 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:04.520 time with. In return, I get contacted all the time 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:07.480 by people who will come into Philadelphia, who might want 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:09.880 to see certain courses or might just ask me, hey, listen, 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:11.200 I'm going to be in town for a couple of days, 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:14.760 where should I play? And I not only enjoy when 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:16.639 people reach out to me and ask me those kind 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:18.920 of questions, but if I can help in any way, 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:21.600 I'm happy to do that. And I think that that 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:26.320 kind of that kind of helping others really does lend 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:30.399 itself to getting to getting it returned to you in 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:33.720 one good way or another. So I just the bottom 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:36.080 line is this, you have to make yourself available. You 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:39.399 have to have to go out and meet people, and 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:43.080 you've got to be open to both playing with people 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:46.639 that you don't know, getting comfortable in a situation where 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:49.520 you're you're the new guy in a group, and you 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:51.400 really just have to have a taste for meeting people. 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:55.560 I mean that's both in business and in golf. Networking 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:58.880 is such a key point and such a critical aspect 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:02.640 of success that it's something that I don't think anybody 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:05.479 can be too good at. Yeah, it's something that I 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:08.520 enjoy doing. It's something that meeting new people is always 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:11.919 something I enjoy. So it's been good in that respect then, 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:15.040 and of course luck, you know, it obviously entailed a 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:17.119 lot of luck to get on certain courses, as I'm 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:21.920 sure your listeners know, and and certainly I've had very 0:19:21.960 --> 0:19:24.280 good fortune in that respect over the last couple of 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:27.639 couple of years. And it's it's absolutely not something that 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:28.760 I would ever take for granted. 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:32.880 Yeah, I think, you know, if you're a golf junkie 0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:36.159 and you put yourself in the right situation, and you know, 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:38.919 I think a big part about it is like, you know, 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:42.159 people want to take people out there that they know 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:45.840 are going to enjoy the experience. You know, it's not 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:48.920 necessarily like I don't think the right reason is I'm 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:52.080 checking one of the top one hundred off my lists. 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:54.960 Like that's not necessarily a good reason. But a great 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:57.840 reason is like I want to go see the great architecture, 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:00.399 or you know, I really want to like having a 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:03.200 purpose and having a real like is something that I've 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:06.600 found that you know, you know, is that I've found 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:09.480 that you know, I write a lot about architecture, and 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:13.199 you know, people want to show you the architecture of 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:16.040 their golf course, and you know, I'm I don't I 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:19.520 could give you know, I could care less what number 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:23.200 of golf courses on golf die just top one hundred lists. 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:26.760 What I really want to see is the architecture. Like 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:30.040 a perfect example is in your backyard. Of course, I'm 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:33.200 kind of dying to play is White Marsh Valley, and 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:36.879 I want to play there because yeah, it's George Thomas 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:40.240 is who for those of you that don't know, it's 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.360 his first design and it was and he's the same 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:48.560 guy that designed bel Air Riviera Laccne Nor So you know, 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:52.840 getting to see see an architects first design is you know, 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:55.240 something really cool. So that's a place that's really high 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:57.920 on my list, and you won't find it on any 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:01.840 top one hundred lists, you know. I think that that's 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:04.960 an important aspect of you know, getting the access places, 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:06.879 is that you're doing it for the right reason. 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:11.680 I could not agree with you more. Uh, And not 0:21:11.720 --> 0:21:15.159 only that, but I think that's exactly the kind of 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:18.280 attitude and talking about when when you're you're putting yourself 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:21.560 out there. I mean, some of my most enjoyable rounds 0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:24.880 this year and in years past have been at courses 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:28.680 that that won't sniff a golf magazine or a golf 0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:31.399 digest list, and just in the last couple of months alone. 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:34.480 Glen Falls is a course that I've been I've been 0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:36.960 putting a lot of photos out on Twitter and Instagram. 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:40.440 That place is incredible as far as the architecture is concerned. 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:47.720 Country Club at Troy uh Ortard Lake out in out 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:51.160 in Michigan, amazing golf course, not on any top one 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:54.639 hundred lists, and that's really what I love. There is 0:21:54.680 --> 0:21:57.159 nothing that makes me happier than seeing a course that 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:00.919 just surprises me to no end. And if you're if 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:04.119 you're into that, you can be assured that there are 0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:07.280 members at courses who are golf nuts just like you 0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:10.040 and me, who would love nothing more than for some 0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:14.199 enthusiastic golfner to come out check out their course and 0:22:14.320 --> 0:22:16.120 talk to them about architecture over a beer. 0:22:17.520 --> 0:22:21.160 It's uh yeah, I think that that I find more 0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:26.840 joy in finding those gems you know that not a 0:22:26.840 --> 0:22:30.399 lot of people know about, but are just fantastic places 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:33.639 to play golf. And a lot of times, I mean 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:39.520 the club the clubs, Oh yeah, I think like you know, 0:22:40.320 --> 0:22:45.359 Manufacturers is a perfect example of that. I played. I 0:22:45.760 --> 0:22:48.760 was blown away by Applebrook out there. I thought that 0:22:48.880 --> 0:22:54.159 was really good. Yeah, and it's you know, there's a 0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:56.400 bunch of them in Chicago too. I mean there there 0:22:56.400 --> 0:23:00.240 are a bunch of them everywhere. I think that, you know, 0:23:00.359 --> 0:23:03.120 like a you know, you look at all these places. 0:23:03.240 --> 0:23:06.119 Is a lot of times these Golden age architects like 0:23:06.520 --> 0:23:10.240 you know, maybe not the highest thought of course in 0:23:10.240 --> 0:23:13.240 the area. Sometimes are you know, the most fun to play, 0:23:13.320 --> 0:23:15.159 because they aren't, you know, they aren't trying to be 0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:18.880 a championship golf course. They're trying to be a fun 0:23:18.960 --> 0:23:19.560 golf course. 0:23:20.880 --> 0:23:24.520 Yes, and I quite frankly, I am not good enough 0:23:24.560 --> 0:23:27.280 to play a championship golf course the way it's supposed 0:23:27.320 --> 0:23:30.280 to be played. But I am just about good enough 0:23:30.320 --> 0:23:33.760 to play a quirky, funky Seth. 0:23:33.560 --> 0:23:35.679 Rayner design that has the same length that it did 0:23:35.720 --> 0:23:37.960 in nineteen twenty when they were using full. 0:23:37.800 --> 0:23:40.280 Hickory's and a ball made out of bird feathers, you know. 0:23:40.560 --> 0:23:42.760 I mean, that's the kind of golf that appeals to me. 0:23:43.160 --> 0:23:46.520 I'm not going to be trying out for the my 0:23:46.600 --> 0:23:49.400 Tour card anytime soon. So the idea of a course 0:23:49.480 --> 0:23:52.960 being seventy five hundred yards and having rough that's six 0:23:53.000 --> 0:23:56.200 inches deep in greens that are running fifteen doesn't appeal 0:23:56.240 --> 0:23:59.640 to me at all. But that weird little Golden Age 0:23:59.680 --> 0:24:02.600 design and it's barely been touched, that is in some 0:24:02.640 --> 0:24:05.080 neighborhood that nobody even drives through on their way to 0:24:05.200 --> 0:24:08.480 the US Open Course down the street, is exactly what 0:24:08.600 --> 0:24:10.200 I'm after when I'm going to a new city. 0:24:11.320 --> 0:24:14.760 So, you know, you say so, I'm curious, how do 0:24:14.840 --> 0:24:19.480 you go about scheduling like your year of trips? And 0:24:19.920 --> 0:24:21.880 you know, you know, what are some of the new 0:24:21.880 --> 0:24:25.160 places that you're looking at for twenty seventeen. 0:24:25.200 --> 0:24:31.000 Already good question. So weather has a lot to do 0:24:31.080 --> 0:24:33.800 with it as a as I'm sure you know, being 0:24:34.040 --> 0:24:37.800 from the Chicago area. Once about December fifteenth hits here, 0:24:37.800 --> 0:24:40.560 it's probably a little earlier for you. Golf is pretty 0:24:40.600 --> 0:24:44.000 much over. So from just about this time of year 0:24:44.119 --> 0:24:46.400 through the end of March, I'm just looking to get 0:24:46.400 --> 0:24:49.840 the hell out of here and go somewhere warmer. Ideally 0:24:49.880 --> 0:24:51.960 there's going to be golf there. If there isn't, I 0:24:51.960 --> 0:24:54.640 will find it. But I am looking for warm weather 0:24:54.720 --> 0:24:57.000 destinations at this point in time. If I have a 0:24:57.000 --> 0:24:59.240 work trip that takes me somewhere where the temperatures are 0:24:59.280 --> 0:25:02.080 going to get over six in the winter even better, 0:25:02.480 --> 0:25:05.040 but if not, I'm still getting out of town. My 0:25:05.080 --> 0:25:06.600 wife and I usually try to go down to South 0:25:06.640 --> 0:25:10.119 Carolina every December, and obviously there's some great golf there. 0:25:11.200 --> 0:25:13.679 But as long as I can get away to a 0:25:13.720 --> 0:25:15.960 couple of warm weather spots this time of year, I'll 0:25:16.000 --> 0:25:19.560 be happy in summer months. It's really just about picking 0:25:19.680 --> 0:25:23.120 areas that have courses that I'm interested in. The other 0:25:23.160 --> 0:25:27.679 interesting thing is that my wife is a big marathoner 0:25:27.720 --> 0:25:31.040 and triathlete, and every year she tries to do one 0:25:31.119 --> 0:25:35.159 big race in some far away location in the US. So, 0:25:35.720 --> 0:25:38.880 for example, she's got a big race in Kurdalene, Idaho, 0:25:39.600 --> 0:25:42.879 this coming August. So that's a great opportunity for me 0:25:42.920 --> 0:25:45.040 to go out there and play the courses in and 0:25:45.040 --> 0:25:47.639 around Kurdalen, to go over and play Rock Creek Cattle, 0:25:48.080 --> 0:25:51.000 play Godza Ranch, maybe even take a trip a little 0:25:51.000 --> 0:25:56.280 further west and play gamble sands. You know, those are 0:25:56.400 --> 0:25:58.879 really nice things to have that my wife and I 0:25:58.880 --> 0:26:01.280 can do together to you know, make this thing seem 0:26:01.280 --> 0:26:03.240 more reasonable and all this crazy golf and not leads 0:26:03.240 --> 0:26:03.800 to divorced. 0:26:03.920 --> 0:26:05.840 That's it. You know, it's gotta be tough for her, 0:26:06.400 --> 0:26:08.400 it's training was that elevation. 0:26:10.480 --> 0:26:14.280 Yeah, she uh, A lot of the things that she 0:26:14.280 --> 0:26:18.960 she does would would kill a lesser man like, but 0:26:19.640 --> 0:26:22.919 she's she's done great with it. She she really loved it. 0:26:22.960 --> 0:26:27.920 And uh. The the the fact that we can jointly 0:26:27.960 --> 0:26:30.680 do a vacation to somewhere in the middle of nowhere 0:26:31.160 --> 0:26:33.840 that will allow me to play a couple of rounds 0:26:33.880 --> 0:26:36.800 of golf at some really nice places while she gets 0:26:36.800 --> 0:26:39.600 to do something too, uh and we get to see 0:26:39.640 --> 0:26:41.320 the a new area of the country that we've never 0:26:41.359 --> 0:26:45.160 seen before. It's it's really a nice a nice benefit 0:26:45.280 --> 0:26:47.000 of of our little settle. 0:26:47.200 --> 0:26:47.720 That's cool. 0:26:48.280 --> 0:26:50.680 That'll be that will definitely be a fun trip for 0:26:50.720 --> 0:26:51.679 this year. You know. 0:26:51.720 --> 0:26:54.720 It's one one out there that I've wanted to check 0:26:54.760 --> 0:26:58.600 out and I've heard so much about is Sylvie's Ranch. 0:26:59.200 --> 0:27:01.359 It's out and it's in Oregon. I think it's in 0:27:01.400 --> 0:27:06.840 like the eastern part of Oregon. And it's a Dan 0:27:07.000 --> 0:27:12.239 Hickson and it's it's a reversible course. So it was 0:27:12.400 --> 0:27:16.560 actually yeah, so he started it before Doak started the Loop. 0:27:18.119 --> 0:27:20.359 But like you know, there, I don't know what the 0:27:20.400 --> 0:27:23.520 deal with their ownership hasn't you know, wasn't ready to 0:27:23.560 --> 0:27:26.000 do the resort yet, so they didn't. You know, the 0:27:26.040 --> 0:27:29.000 course is pretty much done though, which in it looks 0:27:29.000 --> 0:27:31.000 spectacular from the pictures I've seen. 0:27:32.280 --> 0:27:34.880 I would love to see it. I do know. I've 0:27:34.920 --> 0:27:37.160 heard of the course that you're talking about. I don't 0:27:37.200 --> 0:27:38.600 know too much about it. I don't think much of 0:27:38.680 --> 0:27:40.960 out there about it. But that's exactly the kind of 0:27:41.040 --> 0:27:42.600 course that I would love to see out that way. 0:27:42.880 --> 0:27:45.600 Another one I'm looking at possibly seeing. It's sort of 0:27:45.640 --> 0:27:47.640 in the middle of nowhere, at this place called Sutton Bay, 0:27:48.200 --> 0:27:52.840 which is in I think South Dakota. But I just 0:27:52.880 --> 0:27:55.640 stumbled upon it the other day and it just looked beautiful, 0:27:55.760 --> 0:27:58.760 caught my eye, and now it's on my always growing 0:27:58.800 --> 0:28:01.159 list of places I would like to check out at 0:28:01.200 --> 0:28:01.960 some point or another. 0:28:02.400 --> 0:28:05.760 Yeah, my list, guess I think I add like four 0:28:05.840 --> 0:28:09.520 or five to my list every day, and it's it's 0:28:09.640 --> 0:28:11.560 just it's awful. 0:28:12.119 --> 0:28:16.040 If I could play half of my list between now 0:28:16.080 --> 0:28:20.160 and whenever I die, I will consider that a rousing success. 0:28:20.640 --> 0:28:23.120 So the list, it doesn't matter how much golf I play, 0:28:23.160 --> 0:28:24.400 the list always grows. 0:28:24.520 --> 0:28:26.960 So now that we're on your list, let's let's hear 0:28:27.200 --> 0:28:31.399 like you know what are where are the top five 0:28:31.560 --> 0:28:34.440 courses on that list that you haven't gotten to yet? 0:28:36.240 --> 0:28:40.520 On my wish list, the number one is, without question Cyprus. 0:28:40.640 --> 0:28:45.480 Point I've only I've only done one trip to the 0:28:45.480 --> 0:28:49.960 the San Francisco in the Northern California area, and I 0:28:50.080 --> 0:28:51.600 was very fortunate and I got to play a lot 0:28:51.600 --> 0:28:55.760 of really great courses. But Cyprus is absolutely far and 0:28:55.800 --> 0:29:00.600 away the number one course on my wish lists, both 0:29:00.600 --> 0:29:03.640 domestically and abroad. I am dying to see it for 0:29:03.840 --> 0:29:06.080 reasons that we don't really need to get into, because 0:29:06.080 --> 0:29:09.840 it's obviously anybody who's ever picked up a club, but 0:29:10.200 --> 0:29:14.040 that is a place that you know, I'm dying to play. 0:29:14.640 --> 0:29:18.920 I'm also hoping and planning to play Pine Valley in 0:29:19.040 --> 0:29:22.040 twenty seventeen. It's a little ridiculous given that it's fifteen 0:29:22.040 --> 0:29:26.200 minutes from my house. I've had it set up i 0:29:26.240 --> 0:29:29.600 think four times in the past, and through what is 0:29:29.640 --> 0:29:33.640 becoming an absolute comedy of circumstances, the round has fallen 0:29:33.680 --> 0:29:37.080 through each time. Hurricane Sandy ruined one of the round. 0:29:38.600 --> 0:29:40.800 Poor a member who had been so kind to invite 0:29:40.840 --> 0:29:43.600 me for one of the rounds actually died before we 0:29:43.680 --> 0:29:48.200 got a chance to play one time. It snowed on 0:29:48.240 --> 0:29:50.800 the day that we were supposed to play. So Pine 0:29:50.880 --> 0:29:54.440 Valley has become sort of the white whale locally, and 0:29:54.480 --> 0:29:56.440 it's even more frustrating, like I said, since I can 0:29:56.440 --> 0:29:59.680 practically see it from my deck, so I would be 0:29:59.680 --> 0:30:04.560 on the I really want to see sand Hills this year. 0:30:04.880 --> 0:30:11.200 Yeah, certainly the best modern that I've never seen, way 0:30:11.240 --> 0:30:15.440 up there on my list is Camargo, which is probably the. 0:30:15.360 --> 0:30:17.920 Best seth Rainer, of course, of them. I'm a huge 0:30:17.920 --> 0:30:22.040 steed in McDonald, Seth Rayner, Charlie Banks fan, and I've 0:30:22.040 --> 0:30:26.840 played what I'll say, most seth Rainers courses, but Camargo 0:30:27.080 --> 0:30:30.680 is one that I have heard nothing but wonderful things about. 0:30:31.480 --> 0:30:33.160 So I'm very much looking. 0:30:32.880 --> 0:30:36.880 Forward to playing their best set of template part threes 0:30:37.240 --> 0:30:39.960 of any Rainer McDonald. 0:30:39.720 --> 0:30:43.240 They say, so I've heard, I've heard the same thing. 0:30:43.760 --> 0:30:48.280 So so for incredible for the for the audience out there, 0:30:48.480 --> 0:30:52.040 something that very few people I think some people know, 0:30:52.120 --> 0:30:54.440 but you know, if if you are, if you are 0:30:54.560 --> 0:30:59.400 good enough to be able to try and qualify for 0:30:59.440 --> 0:31:03.280 a U s A. Every single year, Camargo hosts the 0:31:03.400 --> 0:31:07.400 USAM qualifier. So for one hundred and fifty bucks to 0:31:07.440 --> 0:31:11.320 the USGA. You get a practice round and two other 0:31:11.560 --> 0:31:16.400 two tournament rounds at Camargo Country Club. So that's something 0:31:16.440 --> 0:31:19.680 that you know, if you are a golf architecture nerd 0:31:19.800 --> 0:31:22.560 and a good player, that should be something that's a 0:31:23.080 --> 0:31:24.960 on your list of things to do. 0:31:27.120 --> 0:31:29.840 And from what I know about Camargo, I am not 0:31:29.920 --> 0:31:33.280 quite good enough to play in a USM qualifier. But 0:31:34.000 --> 0:31:36.880 if what I will say is even having not played 0:31:36.920 --> 0:31:39.640 Camargo but having heard so many good things about it, 0:31:39.680 --> 0:31:41.600 for one hundred and fifty dollars, that's the kind of 0:31:41.600 --> 0:31:44.040 thing that I would absolutely plan golf trip around. 0:31:44.280 --> 0:31:47.000 Yes, if any of your listeners have the handicap and 0:31:47.040 --> 0:31:51.280 the desire, I would. I would certainly make that trip 0:31:51.520 --> 0:31:54.040 and we could talk about this later. In Ohio is 0:31:54.400 --> 0:31:57.560 sort of the great untapped area for me. There are 0:31:57.720 --> 0:31:58.440 so many. 0:31:58.240 --> 0:32:00.680 Courses that I want to play in Ohio. It's one 0:32:00.680 --> 0:32:03.240 of the few areas that I haven't spent. I've spent 0:32:03.280 --> 0:32:06.040 almost no time in Ohio, and it is just shock 0:32:06.200 --> 0:32:11.400 full of dynamite classic courses with terrisdic architectures. I would I. 0:32:13.960 --> 0:32:17.320 I haven't played a ton in Ohio either, and I 0:32:17.360 --> 0:32:20.840 was amazed. A buddy of mine was going to Cleveland 0:32:20.880 --> 0:32:23.320 for something. He asked me, Hey, where should I play 0:32:23.520 --> 0:32:26.280 in Cleveland? So you know, I was like, well, let 0:32:26.280 --> 0:32:29.080 me do some research, and I pulled it up. I mean, 0:32:29.120 --> 0:32:34.080 there's multiple Stanley Thompson designs, There's tons of Donald Ross. 0:32:34.200 --> 0:32:37.160 I mean, there are so many. And these are all 0:32:37.200 --> 0:32:41.680 public access courses. You know, the city of Cleveland operates 0:32:41.760 --> 0:32:45.640 I think to Stanley Thompson designs and one or two 0:32:45.960 --> 0:32:49.000 Donald Ross designs. They are supposed to be spectacular courses. 0:32:51.160 --> 0:32:54.840 It's it's incredible, both on the public and private side. 0:32:55.120 --> 0:32:58.719 How much good golf ohioland and it's a crime that 0:32:59.200 --> 0:33:01.680 I haven't gotten out out there more than I have. 0:33:01.760 --> 0:33:04.440 I mean, I've driven through Ohio to go to Chicago, 0:33:04.560 --> 0:33:07.560 to go to Wisconsin, to go to Michigan several times, 0:33:08.480 --> 0:33:11.400 but I think I've played something like two courses in 0:33:11.440 --> 0:33:15.720 Ohio and that's just ridiculous given the quality of golf there. 0:33:16.040 --> 0:33:19.040 I know one place you've been. I think, I'm I'm 0:33:19.120 --> 0:33:24.160 gonna do my USAM qualifier at Moraine Country Club in Dayton. 0:33:25.040 --> 0:33:28.000 So I heard, I know you went there this year 0:33:28.080 --> 0:33:29.680 and you said it was great. 0:33:30.320 --> 0:33:33.480 It's amazing. That is exactly the kind of course that 0:33:33.520 --> 0:33:35.800 we were talking about earlier when we were talking about 0:33:35.800 --> 0:33:38.600 courses that aren't on any list, although I will say 0:33:38.640 --> 0:33:40.840 that it would not surprise me in the least to 0:33:40.880 --> 0:33:43.160 see Moraine pop up on a couple of those lists 0:33:43.800 --> 0:33:46.160 in the near future now that Keith Foster's work there 0:33:46.240 --> 0:33:48.880 is done. But you talk about a golf course that 0:33:49.040 --> 0:33:53.400 is on an amazing piece of land, that has a 0:33:53.480 --> 0:33:57.640 membership that cares about the course, cares about its history, 0:33:57.720 --> 0:34:01.520 cares about its pedigree, and it's a rich architecture and 0:34:02.000 --> 0:34:04.520 and it has both the means and the desire to 0:34:04.520 --> 0:34:07.040 to get the course back to the way it was 0:34:07.080 --> 0:34:10.400 originally intended to be. And you have a place like Marine. 0:34:10.480 --> 0:34:15.560 It is incredible And I wholeheartedly co signed your decision 0:34:15.600 --> 0:34:18.200 to do your qualifier there. You will love the golf course. 0:34:18.520 --> 0:34:22.839 Yeah, yeah, As I was like, we have just the 0:34:22.880 --> 0:34:27.360 worst sites in uh Illinois this year, so I'm just 0:34:27.520 --> 0:34:29.799 I'm gonna go out of state for I think all 0:34:29.800 --> 0:34:33.799 of them and just find some cool courses. I think 0:34:33.800 --> 0:34:35.840 one of the mid Am sites is a country club 0:34:35.840 --> 0:34:38.040 of Fairfield, But I don't think I'm gonna go out 0:34:38.040 --> 0:34:41.279 there a week before my wedding. I think I'd get 0:34:41.320 --> 0:34:45.120 probably killed. I wouldn't be getting having a wedding if 0:34:45.160 --> 0:34:45.800 that happens. 0:34:46.960 --> 0:34:50.799 I will tell you Fairfield is awfully nice, but since 0:34:50.800 --> 0:34:52.520 I want your wedding to go off, well I won't. 0:34:52.840 --> 0:34:54.120 I won't tell you too much about it. 0:34:54.200 --> 0:34:56.200 Yeah, So. 0:34:57.960 --> 0:35:01.080 You know, we've seen some some drone pictures from you, 0:35:01.320 --> 0:35:05.759 and Drew is curious about what kind of drone you use, 0:35:06.280 --> 0:35:11.560 and he's he just got a Phantom three Pro and 0:35:11.600 --> 0:35:15.360 he's been kind of hurt by the recent weather. 0:35:15.800 --> 0:35:23.360 So I certainly feel Drew's pain. I actually my prior 0:35:23.480 --> 0:35:25.160 drone to the one I'm using now as a Phantom 0:35:25.280 --> 0:35:28.320 three Pro like Drew's using, and that's a terrific drone. 0:35:29.239 --> 0:35:33.440 I unfortunately crashed my drone, and one of the things 0:35:33.480 --> 0:35:36.120 I will tell you is good luck getting a drone 0:35:36.200 --> 0:35:39.920 repaired anywhere in the comminental of the United States, especially 0:35:39.960 --> 0:35:42.839 if it's a DJI drone like I use. They just 0:35:43.239 --> 0:35:45.920 there's nobody who will touch it, and it's just not 0:35:46.120 --> 0:35:48.280 quite worth sending it all the way back to Japan 0:35:48.360 --> 0:35:51.840 to it worked on. So having crashed that one I 0:35:52.320 --> 0:35:55.480 earlier this year before on my trips I went out 0:35:55.520 --> 0:35:59.560 and I got the Phantom four, which is very much 0:35:59.600 --> 0:36:02.640 like the one Drew's using, with a couple extra features. 0:36:02.960 --> 0:36:07.400 But it's a it's a wonderful photography tool. It's a 0:36:07.440 --> 0:36:11.359 wonderful tool to play with, especially if you are sort 0:36:11.400 --> 0:36:14.279 of a gadget geek, like I think most photographers and 0:36:14.320 --> 0:36:18.439 most golfers are. They're a blast to play with, and 0:36:19.080 --> 0:36:22.960 I have been really, really thrilled with some of the 0:36:23.080 --> 0:36:24.920 photos that I've managed to. 0:36:24.840 --> 0:36:27.839 Pull out of my drone this year. Uh, it's been 0:36:28.120 --> 0:36:30.200 it's been a good year for that, and I think 0:36:30.239 --> 0:36:32.319 who's gonna have a good time with it? They are, 0:36:32.560 --> 0:36:35.040 They're really a blast to use, and they're they're. 0:36:34.880 --> 0:36:38.320 Just perfect for golf photography. I mean, the nature of 0:36:38.360 --> 0:36:42.000 a golf course lends itself to those those elevated perspective 0:36:42.040 --> 0:36:45.680 photos like nothing else. It's it's just a great tool 0:36:45.719 --> 0:36:49.080 if you're looking to capture golf courses from an interesting perspective. 0:36:49.160 --> 0:36:52.719 So yeah, I've been kicking around the idea of getting one. 0:36:53.040 --> 0:36:55.920 I feel like I just really miss out on getting Like, 0:36:56.280 --> 0:36:58.200 you know, I think Chris Spence does a great job 0:36:58.280 --> 0:37:03.640 getting like green Ngel with his drone shots and whenever 0:37:03.719 --> 0:37:06.640 I look at yours, I just like, God, I want 0:37:06.680 --> 0:37:09.320 one of these, but it's. 0:37:09.160 --> 0:37:11.920 A lot of fun. I will. I'll just recommend that, 0:37:12.360 --> 0:37:14.040 you know, don't spend a lot of money on your 0:37:14.040 --> 0:37:16.440 first one, because you will almost certainly crash. 0:37:16.160 --> 0:37:20.360 It, almost to guarantee. 0:37:20.480 --> 0:37:24.640 But anybody who asks me whether they should get a drone, 0:37:24.400 --> 0:37:27.840 my response is always the same. If you can afford 0:37:27.880 --> 0:37:30.400 it and you think you might want one, to get it, 0:37:30.440 --> 0:37:34.200 because you'll really enjoy using it, even if you don't 0:37:34.280 --> 0:37:36.279 use it regarf that much. They're just a blast to 0:37:36.280 --> 0:37:41.040 send up and fly around and get an interesting perspective 0:37:41.120 --> 0:37:43.719 on things that you wouldn't otherwise have. There are a 0:37:43.760 --> 0:37:47.160 lot of fun and well, well they're certainly not They're 0:37:47.200 --> 0:37:51.200 not cheap. You can get, especially nowadays, you can get 0:37:51.239 --> 0:37:54.880 a really high quality drone that's going to give you 0:37:55.080 --> 0:37:59.560 really good performance and really good pictures for a very 0:37:59.600 --> 0:38:01.799 reason price. I think you can get a fan of 0:38:01.800 --> 0:38:05.479 three these days for something like five hundred bucks, which, 0:38:05.840 --> 0:38:07.560 you know, five hundred dollars is a lot of money, 0:38:07.600 --> 0:38:09.920 but that's around the pedal beach, you know, for a 0:38:10.000 --> 0:38:13.080 drone that you're gonna have until you end up crashing it. 0:38:13.160 --> 0:38:16.280 So if if you're interested until it takes beat. 0:38:17.560 --> 0:38:21.920 Right, it's exactly exactly so. And like I said, some 0:38:22.000 --> 0:38:23.880 of the the photos and the courses that I'm going 0:38:24.000 --> 0:38:27.439 to shoot this year with the drone have have really 0:38:27.480 --> 0:38:29.400 turned out well. And I just figured out how to 0:38:29.400 --> 0:38:31.760 fly with my drone too, So now when I travel 0:38:31.800 --> 0:38:33.640 by air, I can take it with me and and 0:38:33.680 --> 0:38:37.319 shoot some courses that aren't aren't near Philly. So I'm 0:38:37.320 --> 0:38:40.000 looking forward to doing that in twenty seven, especially by 0:38:40.000 --> 0:38:43.000 the way, if I can get if I can find 0:38:43.080 --> 0:38:45.440 myself away to sand Hills and baling Neil and his 0:38:45.560 --> 0:38:48.719 other course, Oh god, I would love to shoot those 0:38:48.760 --> 0:38:50.560 with a drone. Wow, would they come out looking me? 0:38:51.080 --> 0:38:56.799 Yeah, I've been thinking about doing that trip too. I 0:38:56.840 --> 0:39:00.200 you know, it's just it's gonna be a week. But 0:39:00.440 --> 0:39:04.040 you know, they go out there and do Prairie Clubs 0:39:04.040 --> 0:39:06.200 out there too, which is supposed to be a really 0:39:06.280 --> 0:39:14.239 really good facility. And bally Neil sand Hills its yeah, 0:39:14.320 --> 0:39:17.400 dismal rivers right there. I mean, I guess right there 0:39:17.640 --> 0:39:23.080 isn't that good of a description. But yeah, when you 0:39:23.120 --> 0:39:25.680 get into when you get into sand Hills, like three 0:39:25.719 --> 0:39:27.959 hours is like right around the corner. 0:39:28.760 --> 0:39:30.640 That qualifies to the next door in that part of 0:39:30.680 --> 0:39:31.000 the world. 0:39:31.200 --> 0:39:36.200 Yeah. So, you know, Michael is and this is a 0:39:36.239 --> 0:39:39.600 place that's high on my list of places to check out. 0:39:39.760 --> 0:39:42.560 You know, he's trying to get you to see Culver. 0:39:43.200 --> 0:39:48.080 He wants to know what does it take, You know, Michael, 0:39:48.120 --> 0:39:48.480 all it. 0:39:48.440 --> 0:39:52.600 Takes is warm weather and a message on what they 0:39:52.640 --> 0:39:55.040 works for you. I would love to see Culver. That 0:39:55.120 --> 0:39:59.319 place looks incredible, especially after the walk they've done there. 0:39:59.400 --> 0:40:02.920 I mean, I have an affection for nine whole courses, 0:40:03.120 --> 0:40:07.640 actually for non traditional courses, whether they're you know, nine holes, 0:40:07.680 --> 0:40:11.160 whether it's a course like abandoned preserved thirteen whole park 0:40:11.200 --> 0:40:14.319 three course. I love seeing courses that don't fit the 0:40:14.320 --> 0:40:18.640 traditional eighteen hole part seventy two, you know, sixty eight 0:40:18.719 --> 0:40:23.480 hundred yard model, and Culver looks like a place that 0:40:23.560 --> 0:40:28.239 has nailed that model down close to perfection. It just 0:40:28.280 --> 0:40:31.719 looks amazing. I would love to see it, and I'll 0:40:31.760 --> 0:40:34.200 certainly tell Michael that it will not take much to 0:40:34.680 --> 0:40:35.480 get me out there. 0:40:35.560 --> 0:40:39.239 Well, you know, they've got the course was done by 0:40:39.280 --> 0:40:44.520 one of the most underrated architects duos of all time, 0:40:44.600 --> 0:40:50.719 Langford Moreau and those guys were you know, Brainer McDonald's disciples. 0:40:51.640 --> 0:40:53.880 We see a ton of their work here in Chicago, 0:40:54.480 --> 0:40:57.440 but not a lot of people know of them outside 0:40:57.440 --> 0:41:02.080 of you know, the kind of the Midwest, Wisconsin and Illinois, Indiana. 0:41:02.600 --> 0:41:08.719 So the great architects. Another nine hole spot that I 0:41:08.760 --> 0:41:11.560 saw this year that was, you know, blew me away 0:41:11.600 --> 0:41:16.440 with Sweden's Cove. So yeah, I would highly recommend a 0:41:16.880 --> 0:41:20.120 Chattanooga trip because there's a lot of good golf. 0:41:21.880 --> 0:41:24.840 Yeah, there really is. In Tennessee, like Ohio is an 0:41:24.920 --> 0:41:27.759 area that I really have to get to. You know. 0:41:27.880 --> 0:41:31.480 Lookout Mountain is down there, which is for for your listeners, 0:41:31.640 --> 0:41:34.279 is another rain of course that I haven't seen, but 0:41:34.320 --> 0:41:38.239 would absolutely love to. Sweden's Cove is most definitely on 0:41:38.320 --> 0:41:41.760 my list. Everybody I know that's played there just raves 0:41:41.800 --> 0:41:45.520 about the place. You know, I've seen photos. They look incredible. 0:41:46.040 --> 0:41:48.680 Everything about the place is just screaming out for a visit. 0:41:49.680 --> 0:41:52.160 And of course in Tennessee then you have the big 0:41:52.239 --> 0:41:56.880 dogs like Honors Course, and then not certainly down in Atlanta, 0:41:56.920 --> 0:41:58.040 there's a couple others that there. 0:41:58.120 --> 0:42:02.640 Yeah, yeah, there's a there's another course, Black Creek there 0:42:02.840 --> 0:42:06.840 that's a Brian Brian Silva design that you know is 0:42:07.239 --> 0:42:11.000 modeled after Rayner McDonald too. That's it's supposed to be 0:42:11.040 --> 0:42:16.239 really good. So and then then there's a course in Knoxville, 0:42:16.800 --> 0:42:20.160 Holston Hills that yeah, that was. That was an awesome, 0:42:20.360 --> 0:42:21.080 awesome place. 0:42:23.400 --> 0:42:25.280 Told me that Holston Hills is one of the purest 0:42:25.360 --> 0:42:26.520 rosses they've ever played. 0:42:26.680 --> 0:42:30.840 Oh yeah, it's It's like so the it's an interesting story. 0:42:30.880 --> 0:42:34.920 The club was always on the wrong side of the tracks. 0:42:35.600 --> 0:42:39.720 So essentially, when you know, golf was in its death 0:42:39.840 --> 0:42:44.480 period of architecture, they didn't have any money to plant 0:42:44.520 --> 0:42:49.880 trees and mess it up. So now they have, you know, 0:42:50.320 --> 0:42:53.720 one of the primo ross courses in all the country. 0:42:54.080 --> 0:42:57.240 I mean, this place is so playable, it's so fun. 0:42:57.680 --> 0:43:01.080 I mean, they've got a one of the coolest volcano 0:43:01.160 --> 0:43:03.720 holes that you'll ever see. It's like a three hundred 0:43:03.800 --> 0:43:08.800 yard uphill par four. Just I mean, it is a great, 0:43:08.960 --> 0:43:09.920 great golf course. 0:43:12.280 --> 0:43:14.239 I can't wait to see the buddy of mine is 0:43:14.320 --> 0:43:18.240 remember there. So maybe we'll have to add the Tennessee 0:43:18.640 --> 0:43:21.320 area to the Winterstic Winter Destination. 0:43:21.680 --> 0:43:25.839 I don't think it's it's and I don't think it's 0:43:25.880 --> 0:43:27.839 not that far. If you do it in the if 0:43:27.920 --> 0:43:31.799 you know, it's not that far from Ohio and you know, 0:43:32.120 --> 0:43:35.800 or Atlanta. Chattanooga's only I think two hours from Atlanta. 0:43:36.160 --> 0:43:39.560 So I always tell people if you're if you're a 0:43:39.600 --> 0:43:43.080 golfer and you live within like five hours of Sweeten's Cove, 0:43:43.640 --> 0:43:48.840 you should go there like once every two months. So 0:43:49.040 --> 0:43:54.000 I think, yeah, I like, I've I've had multiple days 0:43:54.040 --> 0:43:56.439 where I've just thought about getting my car and going 0:43:56.480 --> 0:43:58.240 there and it's nine hours away. 0:43:59.480 --> 0:44:02.440 But I know that's feeling. I know that's feeling, especially 0:44:02.440 --> 0:44:04.960 this time of year. I have done some crazy things 0:44:05.280 --> 0:44:08.000 on random December and January days where I just need 0:44:08.040 --> 0:44:10.040 golf and I say, all right, well, I'm getting in 0:44:10.040 --> 0:44:11.760 the car at three in the morning and I'm driving 0:44:11.840 --> 0:44:15.520 south and you know, I'm going to Pinehurst or I'm 0:44:15.560 --> 0:44:18.239 going to South Carolina or whatever, and you know, you 0:44:18.280 --> 0:44:20.960 play thirty six cole, stay overnight, play another round or two, 0:44:21.040 --> 0:44:21.719 and drive home. 0:44:21.800 --> 0:44:25.840 I mean that's sort of the way we northern folk get. 0:44:25.680 --> 0:44:26.719 In the winter time. 0:44:27.120 --> 0:44:31.560 Yeah, so let's get another one of these questions here. 0:44:32.480 --> 0:44:36.520 This is from Chris Butler. What golf course features are 0:44:36.640 --> 0:44:40.120 easiest to capture well with a smartphone? And how do 0:44:40.200 --> 0:44:42.239 we do it. I think we touched on some of 0:44:42.239 --> 0:44:44.239 this a little bit earlier, but I think this is 0:44:44.680 --> 0:44:46.240 this will be a good question. 0:44:47.560 --> 0:44:49.719 So let me let me capture the smartphone. Let me 0:44:49.760 --> 0:44:52.399 talk to the smartphone part. First, smartphones these days are 0:44:52.440 --> 0:44:55.280 so good that anything somebody can do with the camera, 0:44:55.520 --> 0:44:59.279 you can do almost just as well with a smartphone. 0:44:59.320 --> 0:45:02.080 You do not need what we'll call it a real 0:45:02.120 --> 0:45:05.240 camera to take good photos a golf courses. You just don't. 0:45:05.520 --> 0:45:10.319 The iPhone camera is the new Google smartphone, and any 0:45:10.440 --> 0:45:13.960 fansung phone the camera is easily good enough to serve 0:45:14.160 --> 0:45:19.760 as a golf course camera, and that's without exception. So 0:45:19.960 --> 0:45:22.440 the question is really what course features can we capture? 0:45:22.960 --> 0:45:28.120 So the biggest difference with the smartphone is the center 0:45:28.239 --> 0:45:32.720 is smaller and there's no zoom. So what most people, 0:45:32.960 --> 0:45:36.359 at least in my humble opinion, sort of mess up 0:45:36.440 --> 0:45:38.640 when they're trying to take photos of a golf course 0:45:38.680 --> 0:45:41.400 with the smartphone is that they're they're too far away 0:45:41.440 --> 0:45:43.920 from the features they're trying to capture. And like I 0:45:43.960 --> 0:45:46.760 was saying earlier, that's where you get that t shot 0:45:46.800 --> 0:45:50.000 photo where you know, you kind of see the beginning 0:45:50.040 --> 0:45:52.080 of the fair way, and then you get closer to 0:45:52.120 --> 0:45:54.320 the green, everything is getting small, and then the green 0:45:54.480 --> 0:45:57.400 is like a spec way on the distance, and you 0:45:57.440 --> 0:46:00.800 don't really get a perspective on how the whole actually looks. 0:46:01.160 --> 0:46:03.520 You can't really see any features because everything is sort 0:46:03.560 --> 0:46:07.200 of minimized. So the number one recommendation now gives people 0:46:07.280 --> 0:46:10.400 if they're shooting the smartphone, is to find something about 0:46:10.440 --> 0:46:12.719 a given hole or a given course and it's interesting, 0:46:13.120 --> 0:46:16.239 and then get up close and shoot it. Whether that 0:46:16.400 --> 0:46:20.720 is a role of the green, whether it's a bunker feature, 0:46:21.120 --> 0:46:23.680 whether it's an element of a terrain that they think 0:46:23.800 --> 0:46:26.440 is curious or unique or they think might look nice, 0:46:27.160 --> 0:46:30.319 get up close to it and capture it as best 0:46:30.360 --> 0:46:33.680 you can. My really, the only rule that I have 0:46:34.120 --> 0:46:37.520 for cake and golf course photos, and this is not 0:46:37.600 --> 0:46:39.319 a rule that anybody needs to follow, but I think 0:46:39.360 --> 0:46:43.200 it's a good point of reference, is so long as 0:46:43.239 --> 0:46:47.239 you can see the pin in your photo, you're going 0:46:47.320 --> 0:46:50.600 to have a usable photo. So with a smartphone, what 0:46:50.680 --> 0:46:52.200 I like to do, and I shoot a smartphone all 0:46:52.239 --> 0:46:55.480 the time, is to especially get up by the green 0:46:55.920 --> 0:46:59.040 and shoot the way a bunker is arrayed with the 0:46:59.040 --> 0:47:01.719 pin in the background, or get down real low and 0:47:01.719 --> 0:47:04.319 shoot a picture from almost ground level so you can 0:47:04.440 --> 0:47:07.439 see how the green either slopes upward front to back 0:47:07.840 --> 0:47:11.520 or how it rolls in certain spots. But you really 0:47:11.560 --> 0:47:13.840 need to be close to what you're shooting with a smartphone, 0:47:13.880 --> 0:47:18.080 otherwise you're gonna have a picture that is distorted in 0:47:18.160 --> 0:47:21.160 terms of the real way a whole looks, and frankly, 0:47:21.160 --> 0:47:22.880 it's just not gonna be that interesting because you're not 0:47:22.880 --> 0:47:25.520 gonna be able to make out any detail. That's really 0:47:25.680 --> 0:47:28.319 what I think makes a good golf photo. It's a 0:47:28.320 --> 0:47:31.880 photo that that makes you feel like you're actually standing 0:47:31.920 --> 0:47:36.319 there and looking at whatever the photographer's trying to show you. 0:47:36.760 --> 0:47:38.920 And you just can't do that from far away with 0:47:38.920 --> 0:47:42.240 the smartphone. So as long as you're you're up close, 0:47:42.400 --> 0:47:46.120 and you're you're shooting things from a compelling angle or 0:47:46.120 --> 0:47:48.520 from a from a compelling height, you're gonna end up 0:47:48.520 --> 0:47:50.239 with a good photo. The other thing you've got to 0:47:50.239 --> 0:47:52.640 be aware of with the photo is that or with 0:47:52.760 --> 0:47:55.040 a smartphone, is that the photos are going to be 0:47:56.360 --> 0:48:00.560 much more sensitive to the way the light is hitting 0:48:00.640 --> 0:48:03.680 the camera. So if you're shooting into the sun with 0:48:03.760 --> 0:48:06.480 a regular smartphone camera, the picture is not going to 0:48:06.520 --> 0:48:07.840 come out well, so you've got to move to a 0:48:07.840 --> 0:48:11.319 spot where you're not shooting directly into the sun. A 0:48:11.360 --> 0:48:14.320 lot of phones these days have an HDR mode, a 0:48:14.480 --> 0:48:19.440 high dynamic range mode that will allow you to balance 0:48:19.520 --> 0:48:23.480 out and equalize the light and the shadow in a 0:48:23.520 --> 0:48:26.480 picture with a smartphone, and given the limitations of the smartphone, 0:48:26.480 --> 0:48:29.280 this can be a really useful feature. I would recommend 0:48:29.280 --> 0:48:31.520 everybody who shoots the smartphone play with a little bit. 0:48:32.239 --> 0:48:34.839 iPhone has it native in the camera app, but there 0:48:34.840 --> 0:48:38.920 are also third party apps that you can use. The 0:48:38.960 --> 0:48:40.920 only caution I would give people who are trying it 0:48:40.960 --> 0:48:42.920 is it's really easy to get carried away with it 0:48:42.960 --> 0:48:45.840 and end up with a very stake looking photo or 0:48:45.880 --> 0:48:50.480 almost a cartoonish looking photo if you go overboard. But 0:48:50.560 --> 0:48:52.399 if it's choose correctly, it can really be a nice 0:48:52.400 --> 0:48:56.239 tool for somebody with the smartphone where the sensor might 0:48:56.320 --> 0:49:00.880 not be as capable of capturing the bring light conditions 0:49:00.880 --> 0:49:03.799 that we've seen to go. But again, it was a 0:49:03.840 --> 0:49:07.359 long one way of answering a relatively simple and straightforward question. 0:49:07.440 --> 0:49:09.960 But the most important thing is get up close to 0:49:10.000 --> 0:49:12.719 whatever you're shooting. If you're shooting a smartphone. 0:49:13.000 --> 0:49:15.880 Yep, that's a great piece of advice, one that I'm 0:49:16.160 --> 0:49:19.800 actually gonna take to heart, because I am so guilty 0:49:19.840 --> 0:49:23.120 of what you talk about with shooting with a smartphone 0:49:23.160 --> 0:49:26.239 and just taking a picture of a really long haul 0:49:26.480 --> 0:49:27.120 from the team. 0:49:27.560 --> 0:49:30.080 I do it. I do it all the time. And 0:49:30.239 --> 0:49:33.239 it's amazing because I'll be standing on a tee with 0:49:33.360 --> 0:49:35.480 my phone and looking down at the hole and thinking 0:49:36.120 --> 0:49:39.799 this really looks amazing, and I'll shoot the photo, and 0:49:40.040 --> 0:49:41.480 you know, I'll do it a couple more times. I'll 0:49:41.480 --> 0:49:43.279 get home and I can't wait to look at these 0:49:43.280 --> 0:49:45.560 photos that I got, and I'll pull them up and 0:49:45.640 --> 0:49:47.759 it doesn't even look like the same hole that I 0:49:47.800 --> 0:49:50.640 was standing on because the perspective is so it's so 0:49:50.800 --> 0:49:56.080 minimized because of the way the smartphone cameras look. And 0:49:56.239 --> 0:49:58.759 on that point that that's really like I said, you 0:49:58.880 --> 0:50:01.319 certainly don't need what I refer to as a real 0:50:01.360 --> 0:50:04.600 camera to shoot golf course photos. But one of the 0:50:04.719 --> 0:50:09.000 nice things that a real camera like the Sony has 0:50:09.120 --> 0:50:11.919 that can be a really useful pool in shooting golf 0:50:11.960 --> 0:50:16.200 courses is the zoom function, not only because it allows 0:50:16.200 --> 0:50:19.839 you to artificially get closer to whatever you're shooting, but 0:50:19.880 --> 0:50:22.960 because it allows you to play with the depth field 0:50:23.480 --> 0:50:26.600 and the perceived depth of the background in photos. So 0:50:26.640 --> 0:50:28.520 you zoom in and not only do you make the 0:50:28.560 --> 0:50:32.239 things bigger in your photo, but because the angle of 0:50:32.239 --> 0:50:36.160 your shot decreases, it really pulls the background in closer, 0:50:36.520 --> 0:50:39.200 so you can get closer to what it actually looks 0:50:39.280 --> 0:50:42.399 like to your eyes standing there when you have that capability. 0:50:42.560 --> 0:50:46.040 But because most smartphones only have a digital zoom function, 0:50:46.760 --> 0:50:50.840 which is worse than workless, I've never recommend using that feature. 0:50:51.760 --> 0:50:56.320 It's harder to mimic that real life viewpoint that you 0:50:56.960 --> 0:50:59.520 can do with a camera that have more capability. 0:51:00.360 --> 0:51:05.160 So partly enough, this Rob has a question. You know, 0:51:05.280 --> 0:51:10.880 he he loves the setting sun a you know, he thinks, 0:51:10.920 --> 0:51:13.719 you know, it's difficult to get the right you know, 0:51:14.000 --> 0:51:18.120 capture of it. So what what are your tricks for? Uh? 0:51:18.280 --> 0:51:20.920 You know those pictures the last hour of sunlight. 0:51:22.239 --> 0:51:25.560 Yeah, and some of those pictures are are the best 0:51:25.640 --> 0:51:28.759 pictures to take, but they are tricky. So that's a 0:51:28.800 --> 0:51:31.480 really good question from Rob. There are a couple of 0:51:31.480 --> 0:51:36.480 ways to go about it. If we're talking smartphone. For 0:51:36.640 --> 0:51:40.000 the HDR function is a really good function when you're 0:51:40.040 --> 0:51:42.840 shooting into the setting sun. Otherwise, what you'll end up 0:51:42.880 --> 0:51:45.000 with a lot of times is you know you can 0:51:45.120 --> 0:51:48.200 you can you can expose your shot for the sky 0:51:48.880 --> 0:51:51.800 and you'll get a really beautiful sunset, but the golf 0:51:51.800 --> 0:51:55.520 hole will be black, just be shadowed out. Or you 0:51:55.560 --> 0:51:57.200 can expose for the golf hole and it will come 0:51:57.280 --> 0:52:00.799 up nice, but this beautiful sunset that your eyeballs will 0:52:00.800 --> 0:52:05.080 be completely whited out and overexposed. So the HDR function 0:52:05.840 --> 0:52:09.359 sort of merges those two things together and you end 0:52:09.440 --> 0:52:13.240 up with a photo that hopefully is at least close 0:52:13.280 --> 0:52:15.879 to properly exposed both for the light and the dark. 0:52:17.840 --> 0:52:20.440 The process for the camera is very similar to that. 0:52:20.719 --> 0:52:24.320 By the way, you can also create the HDR photos 0:52:24.360 --> 0:52:27.680 after the fact that software, but for the most part, 0:52:27.200 --> 0:52:31.080 the apps and the camera features that cameras have nowadays 0:52:31.120 --> 0:52:34.759 you usually make that process unnecessary. But it's possible. But 0:52:34.840 --> 0:52:36.759 that's I guess a little more advantable for us, you 0:52:36.760 --> 0:52:39.520 know than us lowly golf courses aerever we really need 0:52:39.560 --> 0:52:43.160 to know about. I don't do it as you're shooting 0:52:43.160 --> 0:52:46.760 with a real camera, and this goes for not only 0:52:47.040 --> 0:52:50.400 setting sunshots, but all shots. You want to make sure 0:52:50.440 --> 0:52:52.680 that your camera is set up the way it needs 0:52:52.719 --> 0:52:54.799 to be and properly for the shot that you're trying 0:52:54.840 --> 0:52:58.560 to take. People ask me all the time, what camera 0:52:58.600 --> 0:53:02.680 should I buy for taking golfposed? And there are plenty 0:53:02.680 --> 0:53:06.200 of answers that we'll get somebody a wonderful camera for 0:53:06.600 --> 0:53:08.840 got photos. The thing I always tell them is whatever 0:53:08.840 --> 0:53:10.200 camera you get, to make sure you learn how to 0:53:10.320 --> 0:53:13.640 use it. People expect to a lot of times people 0:53:13.680 --> 0:53:14.960 to pop them out of the box. It's like a 0:53:14.960 --> 0:53:18.880 smartphone camera and immediately rip off these great photos. But 0:53:19.360 --> 0:53:21.239 you really just need to learn how to use the 0:53:21.280 --> 0:53:23.880 camera and how to set it up properly for the 0:53:23.960 --> 0:53:27.759 different shops that you're going to encounter. And to Rob's point, 0:53:27.800 --> 0:53:31.680 I have a memory slot on my camera set up 0:53:31.760 --> 0:53:34.040 for exactly the kind of shot that he's talking about, 0:53:34.440 --> 0:53:37.000 so that when I end up on a hold that 0:53:37.040 --> 0:53:40.160 the sun is setting behind and we have this beautiful 0:53:40.200 --> 0:53:42.000 scene in front of us, rather than having to tinkle 0:53:42.040 --> 0:53:43.960 with everything and set the camera up the way it 0:53:43.960 --> 0:53:45.440 needs to be set up to get a good photo, 0:53:45.760 --> 0:53:47.600 I can just click a button and be ready to go. 0:53:49.320 --> 0:53:52.560 You can use HDR modes in camera after this act 0:53:52.560 --> 0:53:56.480 with regular cameras too, I think they tend to be 0:53:56.560 --> 0:53:59.319 much more natural looking than a lot of the cell 0:53:59.320 --> 0:54:03.080 phone cameras will look when using that mode, So that 0:54:03.239 --> 0:54:06.160 is a good way to do it. And then the 0:54:07.480 --> 0:54:13.000 probably the most useful way to get really good shot 0:54:13.120 --> 0:54:15.760 into the setting sun is with editing after the fact 0:54:15.760 --> 0:54:19.480 of post processing. We haven't really talked about that because 0:54:19.520 --> 0:54:23.640 it's something that I absolutely despise doing. I hate editing 0:54:23.640 --> 0:54:25.879 my photo deck to the fact it takes so much 0:54:25.920 --> 0:54:30.000 time and it's it's not all that fun for me. 0:54:30.040 --> 0:54:32.320 I like shooting the photos, but I hate playing with them, 0:54:32.520 --> 0:54:35.960 so I avoid it. I also don't use a computer 0:54:36.040 --> 0:54:40.120 of my workflows from camera to iPad to wherever I'm 0:54:40.120 --> 0:54:43.040 sharing the photos, so I'm limited in what software I've 0:54:43.080 --> 0:54:46.600 access to. And I also shoot Jpeggett the post to walk. 0:54:46.800 --> 0:54:50.080 But if you are really looking to get some great 0:54:50.120 --> 0:54:53.360 photos of the setting sun into the setting song on 0:54:53.440 --> 0:54:57.799 golf course, I guess my recommendation would be shoot with 0:54:57.840 --> 0:55:01.920 a real camera, shoot with the highest dynamic range your 0:55:01.960 --> 0:55:05.640 camera will allow you to shoot with and ideally shoot 0:55:05.760 --> 0:55:08.960 in raw mode so that after the fact you can 0:55:09.040 --> 0:55:12.799 tinker with the photo to the maximum extent possible and 0:55:14.360 --> 0:55:17.360 darken up the the overexposed areas and brighten up the 0:55:17.440 --> 0:55:20.280 under exposed areas, and hopefully end up with a balanced 0:55:20.280 --> 0:55:23.640 photo that you that you're happy with. Like I said, 0:55:23.680 --> 0:55:25.000 there are a lot of ways to go about it. 0:55:25.120 --> 0:55:27.720 None of them is right or wrong or any better 0:55:27.719 --> 0:55:32.800 than the other, but it's it's it's a tricky photo 0:55:32.880 --> 0:55:37.480 to get right, and an easy photo to to capture 0:55:37.680 --> 0:55:41.799 an overblown cartoonish image on or one that's just simply unusable. 0:55:41.880 --> 0:55:46.759 So those are the methods that I use, and I've 0:55:46.760 --> 0:55:49.279 had some success, but I've also had some failures. I mean, 0:55:49.320 --> 0:55:52.040 sometimes no matter how hard you try, no matter how 0:55:52.080 --> 0:55:53.799 well you set up the camera, and no matter how 0:55:53.840 --> 0:55:56.480 hard you push it in editing after the fact, it 0:55:56.640 --> 0:56:00.520 just doesn't come out. And that's kind of the nature 0:56:00.600 --> 0:56:02.439 of the trinal error. 0:56:02.760 --> 0:56:06.560 Yeah, that's I think everybody's been there, just you know, 0:56:06.680 --> 0:56:09.640 frustrated with it. You know, you see something that's just 0:56:09.760 --> 0:56:13.120 absolutely epic and there's just no way to get it 0:56:13.360 --> 0:56:17.160 feel like, you know, you're in the moment again, I. 0:56:17.120 --> 0:56:19.960 Completely agree, And by the way, on that point, that's 0:56:20.000 --> 0:56:22.200 another you bring up a great point there. 0:56:22.840 --> 0:56:25.440 If you are standing there looking at that epic moment 0:56:26.120 --> 0:56:28.880 and you really want to capture it, don't you shoot 0:56:28.880 --> 0:56:31.920 one photo, fire off a bunch, change your settings a 0:56:31.960 --> 0:56:34.279 little bit, try something you ever tried before when you 0:56:34.320 --> 0:56:36.480 were dealing with digital cameras. Here, there's really no such 0:56:36.560 --> 0:56:39.560 thing as having too many photos. It's much better to 0:56:39.600 --> 0:56:42.600 get home with twenty photos of this epic shot you 0:56:42.640 --> 0:56:44.120 thought you had and have. 0:56:44.160 --> 0:56:47.359 Nineteen of them be worthless but one be usable, than 0:56:47.440 --> 0:56:49.560 to take one thing you thought it was set up perfectly, 0:56:49.960 --> 0:56:52.480 realize you didn't account for something, and get home and 0:56:52.520 --> 0:56:55.480 have a totally worthless, one shot image of this amazing scene. 0:56:55.719 --> 0:56:58.880 So take multiple you get multiple cracks, bet it with 0:56:58.920 --> 0:57:00.560 the digital camera, use them. 0:57:01.120 --> 0:57:08.640 Yeah. So let's Eric Bens has a good question here. 0:57:09.360 --> 0:57:11.279 I think this is a great one. I think, you know, 0:57:12.120 --> 0:57:15.840 there's a lot of golf travel people that tend to 0:57:15.880 --> 0:57:19.240 focus on, you know, the high end resource and everything, 0:57:19.280 --> 0:57:22.320 but like you know, a lot of the great courses 0:57:23.360 --> 0:57:26.560 are these hidden gems and you know, public courses that 0:57:26.760 --> 0:57:29.080 are under one hundred bucks to play that you know 0:57:29.200 --> 0:57:32.880 you love. So what are some of your favorite, uh, 0:57:33.000 --> 0:57:36.720 you know, courses in across the country that are public 0:57:36.920 --> 0:57:40.240 and under one hundred bucks, and I'll give some of 0:57:40.280 --> 0:57:40.800 mine too. 0:57:42.560 --> 0:57:46.000 Great question. I don't know if it counts or the cheating, 0:57:46.640 --> 0:57:50.800 but I think the absolute best value in golf is 0:57:50.840 --> 0:57:55.120 the replay rate at Bandon Dunes. If you go at 0:57:55.120 --> 0:57:58.800 the right time year, you can play thirty six holes 0:57:58.800 --> 0:58:01.040 of golf there and the second round is going to 0:58:01.120 --> 0:58:03.400 cost you something in the order of seventy five dollars. 0:58:03.720 --> 0:58:05.720 I think the first round might be one twenty five. 0:58:06.040 --> 0:58:09.840 There is no better value, in my opinion, in public 0:58:09.880 --> 0:58:13.520 golf than that deal. I don't know. I've never been 0:58:13.560 --> 0:58:15.400 to Abandoned in the summer. I know the rates go 0:58:15.480 --> 0:58:18.440 up a little, but certainly in spring, and I believe 0:58:18.480 --> 0:58:20.960 in fall you can go out there and get those rates. 0:58:21.360 --> 0:58:23.480 And I just don't think you can possibly find a 0:58:23.480 --> 0:58:27.240 better deal in golf. And that goes for a lot 0:58:27.240 --> 0:58:29.800 of high end resort courses. I mean, it doesn't necessarily 0:58:29.840 --> 0:58:34.160 apply at places like Whistling Straits, which is expensive, or Pinehurst, 0:58:34.280 --> 0:58:37.560 but I will tell you that a place like Kiowa Island, 0:58:39.160 --> 0:58:41.000 the Ocean Course, which is one of the first great 0:58:41.080 --> 0:58:43.080 courses I ever played in the place that I try 0:58:43.080 --> 0:58:45.560 to play every year when I go down to Kiowa. 0:58:46.800 --> 0:58:51.120 If you play the Ocean course in December on a 0:58:51.160 --> 0:58:55.400 weekday after something like one o'clock, it's seventy bucks and 0:58:55.520 --> 0:58:57.120 carry your own bag. You don't have to worry about 0:58:57.160 --> 0:59:00.560 a caddy. That's a great deal. So a lot of 0:59:00.560 --> 0:59:05.440 the resource courses, if you are careful about what time 0:59:05.520 --> 0:59:08.439 you're able to play in the day and what time 0:59:08.440 --> 0:59:11.720 of year, you can get some really great deals. And 0:59:11.840 --> 0:59:14.560 I do that all the time. I love a good 0:59:14.600 --> 0:59:17.000 deal as much as anybody, and that's a great way 0:59:17.040 --> 0:59:23.520 to get some. In Philadelphia, there's a lot of really classic, 0:59:24.440 --> 0:59:27.760 great courses that can be had very cheaply. Lulu country 0:59:27.760 --> 0:59:30.360 Club is a place that around here that just went 0:59:30.560 --> 0:59:33.680 semi private. Used to be a private country club and 0:59:33.720 --> 0:59:37.160 now it's open to the public during certain days and times. 0:59:37.880 --> 0:59:42.080 I've played there earlier in the late in the fall, 0:59:42.080 --> 0:59:43.880 I guess at the end of November, and I think 0:59:43.880 --> 0:59:49.400 it cost me fifty dollars. And this is a wonderful, quirky, 0:59:50.160 --> 0:59:57.120 well preserved, decently conditioned, total loss gem that anybody who 0:59:57.240 --> 1:00:01.959 is into architecture would absolutely adore. And it's really cheap 1:00:02.080 --> 1:00:02.880 for what you're seeing. 1:00:03.520 --> 1:00:07.520 My uncle was my uncle is the head pro out 1:00:07.560 --> 1:00:12.560 there for about thirty years. So I love Louis. Yeah, great, 1:00:13.360 --> 1:00:14.320 great golf course. 1:00:15.440 --> 1:00:18.560 It's terrific, right, I mean, you don't get you don't 1:00:18.600 --> 1:00:21.000 get those kind of courses anymore because they've always been 1:00:21.040 --> 1:00:24.560 altered or updated or modernized. And here's a ross where 1:00:24.840 --> 1:00:27.360 the club was perfectly contend with it and just sat 1:00:27.400 --> 1:00:31.000 on it for eighty or ninety years and it exists 1:00:31.040 --> 1:00:34.160 now almost in the same state that it didn'ts we 1:00:34.200 --> 1:00:34.800 lost building. 1:00:35.200 --> 1:00:39.320 Yeah, I think it's from what I've been able to 1:00:39.320 --> 1:00:41.840 tell on Twitter, They're they're putting a lot of money 1:00:41.880 --> 1:00:45.400 in a good, good new ownership. So that's the place 1:00:45.440 --> 1:00:47.840 that should just get better with time. 1:00:49.840 --> 1:00:53.760 Couldn't agree more. And then as far as the rest 1:00:53.760 --> 1:00:57.080 of the question, it's really it's just a matter of 1:00:57.880 --> 1:00:59.880 being willing, at least in my opinion, to go off 1:01:00.080 --> 1:01:03.680 the beaten path a little bit, your high end resource 1:01:04.600 --> 1:01:07.480 where the demand is high and people with disposed will 1:01:07.520 --> 1:01:10.640 incomers staying there are going to cost more money naturally. 1:01:10.680 --> 1:01:12.920 You know, there's a reason why Peddle Beach can keep 1:01:12.920 --> 1:01:15.560 its screens fee at five hundred and fifty bucks or 1:01:15.560 --> 1:01:18.240 whatever they're getting these days. They charge it because people 1:01:18.240 --> 1:01:21.280 will pay it. But the further away you go from 1:01:21.920 --> 1:01:24.800 the major cities, the further away you go from the 1:01:25.320 --> 1:01:29.160 high end resorts, the better your chances are of getting 1:01:29.840 --> 1:01:34.320 a great deal on a terrific public golf course for 1:01:34.880 --> 1:01:37.560 less than hundred bucks. And there are a ton of 1:01:37.600 --> 1:01:41.760 them out there. One that I played this year was 1:01:41.880 --> 1:01:46.920 out on Cape cod called Highland Links. Another nine holer 1:01:47.000 --> 1:01:50.560 that we talked about earlier, full rescue everywhere. This place 1:01:50.600 --> 1:01:53.320 hasn't been touched since they originally laid it on the 1:01:53.320 --> 1:01:56.960 ground back in I want to say something like nineteen twenty. 1:01:58.520 --> 1:02:02.320 And it's terrific. You can tire your own bag there 1:02:02.440 --> 1:02:05.480 all day long, play wonderful golf and it'll cost you 1:02:05.680 --> 1:02:09.200 thirty five bucks or something like that. It's an amazing place. 1:02:09.720 --> 1:02:12.760 These kind of courses are around, and frankly, there's usually 1:02:12.800 --> 1:02:15.800 at least one of them in or near every major 1:02:15.840 --> 1:02:18.560 city in the country. You just have to be willing 1:02:18.600 --> 1:02:20.280 to look a little deeper and do a little more 1:02:20.280 --> 1:02:22.840 research to be able to find what's out there. 1:02:23.120 --> 1:02:26.920 Yeah, I think a good practice is to well one 1:02:27.040 --> 1:02:31.320 architect in particular, You can usually find Donald Ross courses everywhere. 1:02:31.400 --> 1:02:34.640 He designed four hundred and twenty five of them. So 1:02:34.800 --> 1:02:38.440 there are The Donald Ross Society has a full listing, 1:02:38.480 --> 1:02:41.160 but a lot of them are public, I find. You know, 1:02:41.240 --> 1:02:45.120 that's usually a pretty good bet if you're looking for 1:02:45.240 --> 1:02:47.760 a course with good bones. They aren't always in the 1:02:47.800 --> 1:02:50.520 greatest shape, but the bones are there. They're fun. 1:02:51.480 --> 1:02:51.640 You know. 1:02:51.720 --> 1:02:54.160 A good example of that in Chicago there's a course 1:02:54.200 --> 1:02:57.640 called Ravslow Country Club. It's on the south side of 1:02:57.640 --> 1:03:00.400 the city. It's an old country club. This now public. 1:03:00.880 --> 1:03:05.360 That's a great golf course to play a one up 1:03:05.400 --> 1:03:08.080 and you know, this is an awesome trip. And John, 1:03:08.200 --> 1:03:10.920 this is this one should be very high on your 1:03:11.000 --> 1:03:17.040 radar is Sand Valley. But right forty five minutes from 1:03:17.120 --> 1:03:21.440 Sand Valley is a place called Lisnia and it's designed 1:03:21.440 --> 1:03:26.160 by Lankford Morreau. It's probably one of the best golf 1:03:26.160 --> 1:03:29.439 courses in all of the Midwest. Probably I would say 1:03:29.720 --> 1:03:34.280 top thirty golf course in the entire Midwest. And it 1:03:34.320 --> 1:03:36.680 is I think, I want to say, like ninety bucks 1:03:36.680 --> 1:03:40.200 to play, and the replay rate is around thirty. So 1:03:40.840 --> 1:03:44.040 that place, I mean, you could play there all all 1:03:44.120 --> 1:03:48.120 the time. And then you know, forty five minutes away 1:03:48.160 --> 1:03:50.680 you also have Sand Valley where they're building these courses. 1:03:50.720 --> 1:03:53.920 That's gonna be a little bit more expensive, but you know, 1:03:55.120 --> 1:03:59.919 in that hour area you have four world class golf 1:04:00.080 --> 1:04:05.200 horses now with the new David kid design. A couple others. 1:04:05.240 --> 1:04:08.720 I like a bell View at Biltmore which is down 1:04:08.720 --> 1:04:11.160 in like the Tampa area. It's a cool little Donald 1:04:11.200 --> 1:04:15.400 Ross public course. You know, Sweet and Scove, which we 1:04:15.480 --> 1:04:19.760 mentioned earlier. Uh, there's a bunch you know that's that's 1:04:19.800 --> 1:04:25.200 a whole blog post in itself. Best best values in golf. 1:04:26.240 --> 1:04:28.840 Absolutely, And I'll tell you I I've heard nothing but 1:04:28.960 --> 1:04:33.680 good things about Lasonia. I'd love to to see that 1:04:33.760 --> 1:04:38.800 place sometime soon. When I was in Chicago in early November, 1:04:39.400 --> 1:04:41.200 I actually I didn't have a chance to play it 1:04:41.240 --> 1:04:45.400 in a time, but I actually drove into Ravaslow, got out, 1:04:45.480 --> 1:04:49.440 walked around a little bit that place. Wills cred that 1:04:49.440 --> 1:04:51.880 that is a course that is absolutely on my list 1:04:52.320 --> 1:04:55.680 for my next trip Chicago. That's a great example in 1:04:55.720 --> 1:04:58.640 the filiary again, since that's my neck of the woods. 1:04:58.800 --> 1:05:03.360 A great place to head for relatively low cost public 1:05:03.440 --> 1:05:08.880 golf is the Atlantic City Shore area. Atlantic City Country 1:05:08.880 --> 1:05:12.840 Club is a dynamite course. Saturday morning during the summer, 1:05:12.880 --> 1:05:16.760 they're probably getting easily into the three figures. But again, 1:05:16.800 --> 1:05:18.640 if you're willing to play it in the afternoon on 1:05:18.680 --> 1:05:22.280 a random Tuesday, you can get an afternoon rate for 1:05:22.280 --> 1:05:25.360 for well under one hundred dollars. There's a Twisted Dune 1:05:25.520 --> 1:05:28.840 is a really enjoyable course down there. Same thing. So 1:05:28.880 --> 1:05:31.920 as long as you're flexible with with your schedule and 1:05:31.960 --> 1:05:34.400 when you're willing to play there, there are certainly good 1:05:34.400 --> 1:05:36.800 deals out there that you have cool. 1:05:37.280 --> 1:05:39.840 So you know, I want to be conscious of your time. 1:05:39.880 --> 1:05:43.440 It's very late now on the East Coast. Before we 1:05:43.480 --> 1:05:45.560 get you out of here, I'm just gonna hit you 1:05:45.600 --> 1:05:53.959 with some quick hinder questions. All right, favorite architect, Yeah, 1:05:54.200 --> 1:05:58.000 it's a favorite architect. 1:05:58.360 --> 1:06:00.840 Favorite architects Seev McDonald and. 1:06:00.880 --> 1:06:05.560 Definitely Okay, if you had to play one golf course 1:06:05.640 --> 1:06:08.400 the rest of your life, which course would it be? 1:06:09.720 --> 1:06:11.280 National Golf Wins. 1:06:11.880 --> 1:06:14.120 All right, that's a good That's number one on my 1:06:14.200 --> 1:06:19.320 list of places to go see. So with that, what 1:06:19.560 --> 1:06:23.120 are the three courses you're most excited to see in 1:06:23.280 --> 1:06:24.280 twenty seventeen. 1:06:27.440 --> 1:06:33.720 Cypress Point Is is definitely the top on that list. 1:06:34.400 --> 1:06:36.479 I think I want to throw pine Valley in there, 1:06:36.520 --> 1:06:40.760 but I'm not really sure about that given the unfortunate 1:06:40.840 --> 1:06:43.160 history that I've had with it. So let's let's, you know, 1:06:43.320 --> 1:06:46.280 let's leak that one out for now. We'll say Cypress Point, 1:06:46.640 --> 1:06:48.400 will say sand Hills will say. 1:06:48.240 --> 1:06:52.919 Come on, Okay. Those are three strong choices, and then 1:06:53.600 --> 1:06:57.400 we'll go with what was the place that blew your 1:06:57.440 --> 1:07:02.520 socks off most and twenty six meaning that I had, 1:07:02.640 --> 1:07:05.480 you know, you didn't have any expectations going in and 1:07:05.520 --> 1:07:07.080 you walked out of there like wow. 1:07:09.840 --> 1:07:12.680 That would either be Glenn's Falls up in New York, 1:07:15.800 --> 1:07:20.000 Orchard Lake outside of Detroit, which absolutely blew me away. 1:07:21.680 --> 1:07:23.840 Or I don't cheating by giving you multiple answers here, 1:07:23.880 --> 1:07:28.000 but or it would be Black Sheep outside of Chicago, 1:07:28.440 --> 1:07:32.200 which I played. I actually stumbled out that way because 1:07:32.200 --> 1:07:34.320 I had a little extra time after a morning round 1:07:35.600 --> 1:07:38.280 and I had a choice to either go back to 1:07:38.320 --> 1:07:41.320 the conference that I was out there for or go 1:07:41.400 --> 1:07:44.640 see Black Sheep. Figured what the heck went out played 1:07:44.640 --> 1:07:47.600 Black Sheep played all twenty seven holes one afternoon in 1:07:47.720 --> 1:07:51.440 high winds, and absolutely loved the place. I thought it 1:07:51.520 --> 1:07:54.720 was just incredibly fun modern dame man. 1:07:54.840 --> 1:07:57.439 That's what I haven't gotten out there, and I'm kind 1:07:57.440 --> 1:07:58.520 of jealous now. 1:08:00.240 --> 1:08:02.480 Of nowhere. Like I said, it was not on my 1:08:02.560 --> 1:08:04.760 list of places to see. It was not something I 1:08:04.800 --> 1:08:08.400 was planning to do. It was literally a spur of 1:08:08.400 --> 1:08:12.360 the moment decision, and man, what a good decision. Really 1:08:13.920 --> 1:08:16.479 knock my focks off is a perfect description. I had 1:08:16.520 --> 1:08:19.880 a blast. It's just it's golf like it's supposed to 1:08:19.920 --> 1:08:24.080 be fun. Uh, you know, deep features you don't see 1:08:24.080 --> 1:08:28.519 anywhere else. Very unique design, especially given the property they had. Uh, 1:08:29.200 --> 1:08:31.080 just fantastic in every way. Great. 1:08:31.360 --> 1:08:31.599 Yeah. 1:08:31.680 --> 1:08:34.640 The architect there, David Esler, might be one of the 1:08:34.640 --> 1:08:37.559 best modern architects that nobody knows about. 1:08:39.479 --> 1:08:41.519 I agree. I didn't know about him until I saw 1:08:41.560 --> 1:08:43.519 a black sheet, but he is certainly a guy who 1:08:43.520 --> 1:08:44.320 I look for now. 1:08:44.520 --> 1:08:47.360 He did all the bunkering at Ravslow too. He did 1:08:47.400 --> 1:08:48.439 a restoration there. 1:08:50.200 --> 1:08:54.479 He did a restoration at the Olympia Fields, didn't he he? 1:08:54.680 --> 1:08:59.040 I know he did glen View Club. I'm not sure 1:08:59.080 --> 1:09:02.559 about Olympia Field Eld. But he did glen View Club, 1:09:02.560 --> 1:09:06.120 which is a flynn up in on the North Shore. 1:09:06.560 --> 1:09:09.920 And I want to say he did Skokie too. I'm 1:09:09.920 --> 1:09:12.880 not positive about it, but he did, he has he 1:09:12.920 --> 1:09:15.720 has a couple of good projects. I mean that, and 1:09:15.760 --> 1:09:21.200 I've heard great things about Black Sheep. So and then uh, 1:09:21.280 --> 1:09:24.840 all right, last question. It's a it's a tough one. 1:09:25.120 --> 1:09:30.479 Best golf city or metro area golf metro area in America. 1:09:30.600 --> 1:09:33.160 So the way we're going to define this is you 1:09:33.280 --> 1:09:38.960 have within an hour driving of the city center. 1:09:40.400 --> 1:09:42.880 Great question, and I like the way you defined it 1:09:42.920 --> 1:09:48.760 because that definition can really alter the reasoning here. So 1:09:48.840 --> 1:09:51.160 anyway within an our of the metro center, to me, 1:09:51.479 --> 1:09:59.120 it's it comes down to uh, Philly, New York, Boston, Chicago, 1:09:59.760 --> 1:10:03.439 l and San Francisco. Those are the six contenders, right. 1:10:04.160 --> 1:10:07.840 I think you probably have to eliminate San fran as 1:10:07.880 --> 1:10:10.320 good as the golf out there is, because an hour 1:10:10.400 --> 1:10:13.759 doesn't get you all the way down to Monterey. You know, 1:10:13.880 --> 1:10:17.760 you capture Hastiefo there. But there are a lot of 1:10:17.760 --> 1:10:20.000 great courses within that hour, but I don't think it 1:10:20.080 --> 1:10:22.840 quite matches up to the others. Same thing with La. 1:10:22.920 --> 1:10:24.960 As great as the high end courses are in LA, 1:10:25.520 --> 1:10:27.959 some of the ones that I really like are outside 1:10:27.960 --> 1:10:31.080 that hour radius. So you just sheer numbers game. You 1:10:31.200 --> 1:10:33.880 just don't have enough super high end courses for LA 1:10:34.000 --> 1:10:38.800 to be in the conversation. So with your definition of mind, 1:10:39.760 --> 1:10:44.560 I think it's a really close fight between Boston, Chicago, 1:10:44.840 --> 1:10:49.599 and Philly. And because I can't really make the decision 1:10:50.880 --> 1:10:53.559 between those three, I'll go with Philly just because it's 1:10:53.560 --> 1:10:56.240 my hometown. The manager a lot of great courses within 1:10:56.240 --> 1:10:59.360 an hour downtown Chicago, and I'll say a Boston. I mean, 1:10:59.840 --> 1:11:05.759 you got myopiat Essex, Salem, It Hans, It, the two moderns, 1:11:05.800 --> 1:11:09.080 a Old Sandwich, and Boston Golf Club, and you got 1:11:09.080 --> 1:11:10.439 all the way out on the cape that I think 1:11:10.479 --> 1:11:14.680 you're reaching an hour place like Eastward Hoe. You got Whiteonville. 1:11:15.160 --> 1:11:18.720 You know a sport. It's amazing how many great golf 1:11:18.760 --> 1:11:21.679 we're star balls. But I literally Boston because you're playing 1:11:21.720 --> 1:11:25.000 seasons shorter. So in the end, it's Philly wrote to Chicago. 1:11:25.360 --> 1:11:27.639 I'm a Philly guy. I know you're a Chicago guy, 1:11:27.880 --> 1:11:30.240 So I'm gonna go with Philly. I'm pretty sure you're 1:11:30.240 --> 1:11:31.200 gonna say Chicago. 1:11:32.680 --> 1:11:36.960 Somebody I went out. I went out to Philly. I 1:11:37.000 --> 1:11:42.120 had two golf trips out there, and a Philly's at 1:11:42.120 --> 1:11:47.160 Philly in my mind takes the cake. I Uh, it's 1:11:47.200 --> 1:11:50.760 the depth at Philly is just so much stronger than 1:11:51.080 --> 1:11:54.599 I think Chicago. Like a perfect example is White Marsh Valley, 1:11:55.120 --> 1:11:59.200 you know, like like that that. I mean, Chicago's really 1:11:59.200 --> 1:12:04.080 good though, and New York's eliminated because Long Island is 1:12:04.160 --> 1:12:07.280 too far from the city center, so exactly. 1:12:07.360 --> 1:12:10.120 And look, there's still a boatload of great golf within 1:12:10.160 --> 1:12:13.839 an hour of downtown New York. But I just without 1:12:13.960 --> 1:12:17.880 those those Southampton courses and the courses further out on 1:12:17.960 --> 1:12:21.360 Long Island, you just you know, it's close. But if 1:12:21.720 --> 1:12:24.920 if you think those away from New York again, I 1:12:25.000 --> 1:12:27.559 just don't think it can compete on depth Philly. At 1:12:27.600 --> 1:12:31.160 the high end, obviously we have. You got Marrion, Pine Valley, 1:12:32.240 --> 1:12:35.599 Iron and Ink Gulf Mills. The high end is here. 1:12:35.479 --> 1:12:37.120 Is really really Philly Cricket. 1:12:38.280 --> 1:12:40.640 Philly Cricket is another great one. 1:12:40.400 --> 1:12:44.920 How is there are there fifty courses better than Philly 1:12:44.960 --> 1:12:50.080 Cricket Club. I'm sorry you are there fifty courses in 1:12:50.160 --> 1:12:52.400 America that are better than Philly Cricket Club? 1:12:53.800 --> 1:12:56.719 If you're asking me that question, I'd be hard pressed 1:12:56.720 --> 1:13:01.080 to give you fifty, especially now the Foster restoration is done. 1:13:01.200 --> 1:13:05.080 Philly Cricket Club is a phenomenal golf course now, and 1:13:05.160 --> 1:13:08.760 I'm a big killing ass fan, and what Foster did 1:13:08.800 --> 1:13:11.160 there to bring that killing hands back out of that 1:13:11.200 --> 1:13:16.600 golf course is just tremendous. That that place is absolutely 1:13:16.680 --> 1:13:17.719 outstanding right now. 1:13:18.000 --> 1:13:22.000 Yeah, I mean that's when I realized how good Philly 1:13:22.040 --> 1:13:25.120 golf was was when, of course I played that, I 1:13:25.240 --> 1:13:28.120 barely you know, I had heard about it from you know, 1:13:28.240 --> 1:13:34.200 the senior event and the club pro event out there. 1:13:34.520 --> 1:13:36.960 But then I get out there and I'm trying to think. 1:13:37.000 --> 1:13:39.479 I'm like, you know, if this is in Chicago, it's 1:13:39.920 --> 1:13:43.759 it's probably top three golf course in Chicago, and here, 1:13:44.080 --> 1:13:46.880 you know, they have it between you know, five and seven. 1:13:47.080 --> 1:13:51.040 That being said, rankings are a load of crap since 1:13:51.560 --> 1:13:54.680 short Akers is ranked the number seven course in Chicago 1:13:54.920 --> 1:13:56.960 and yeah. 1:13:57.320 --> 1:14:00.040 Which is really all you need to know about the 1:14:00.120 --> 1:14:04.280 ranking systems, because that's about as crazy as it gets. 1:14:04.880 --> 1:14:07.240 Shore Acres is one of my favorite places on earth. 1:14:08.040 --> 1:14:12.240 There's there's there's not a place that I've found better. 1:14:12.360 --> 1:14:15.439 So it's, uh, we'll see this summer. After this summer, 1:14:15.439 --> 1:14:18.120 I'm gonna play a lot of great courses, but we'll 1:14:18.120 --> 1:14:21.040 see if it still stands up. But there's not many 1:14:21.080 --> 1:14:23.560 places that there's a better, you know, three and a 1:14:23.600 --> 1:14:26.599 half hour walk around than short acres in the world. 1:14:27.760 --> 1:14:29.640 I could not agree with you more. That place is 1:14:29.720 --> 1:14:31.120 just lovely in every respect. 1:14:31.360 --> 1:14:35.799 Yeah, all right, John, really appreciate the time, and uh, 1:14:36.000 --> 1:14:38.400 you know, for those of you that don't know, it's 1:14:38.520 --> 1:14:42.599 it's almost midnight recording this in in Philly, so he's 1:14:42.640 --> 1:14:47.519 staying up late for us. I'll I appreciate the time, 1:14:47.600 --> 1:14:52.640 and I'll link John's Twitter and Instagram handles in the 1:14:53.600 --> 1:14:57.080 podcast posts so you guys can go on and follow 1:14:57.160 --> 1:15:00.800 him if you don't already. Thanks a lot, John, now 1:15:00.840 --> 1:15:01.519 any thank you. 1:15:01.680 --> 1:15:04.240 I appreciate it. And I always love talking golf with 1:15:04.280 --> 1:15:06.240 a fellow golf month, So anytime,