Speaker 1: All right, we're back for another episode of the Friday Podcast.
Speaker 1: This week, we are talking with John Cavalier. He is
Speaker 1: the famed Twitter and Instagram account linked gems. Many of
Speaker 1: you probably already follow him on Twitter. If you don't,
Speaker 1: definitely recommend checking him out. He takes spectacular photos of
Speaker 1: golf courses and is a self proclaimed golf junkie. So
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk golf photography, golf course architecture, and you know,
Speaker 1: kind of golf courses tonight. So John, thanks so much
Speaker 1: for coming on.
Speaker 2: Andy might play. You're a big fan. Thank you for
Speaker 2: having me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I think you know the
Speaker 1: thing that everybody would love to know is you know
Speaker 1: a little bit about the man behind links gems.
Speaker 2: I'll give you as as best I can. So I'm
Speaker 2: a full time lawyer that that career tempt to pay
Speaker 2: the bills. I'm based out of Philly. I worked for
Speaker 2: a rather large law firm doing labor and employment work,
Speaker 2: litigation and trial work, which is interesting and keeps the
Speaker 2: lights on at home and on the side, obviously, I
Speaker 2: play a lot of golf. I'm based out of Philly,
Speaker 2: so I like to get back and check in on
Speaker 2: the courses in my hometown and the surrounding areas, But
Speaker 2: I also travel a lot boks will working for fun
Speaker 2: and when I do, I I certainly like to see
Speaker 2: the golf that other areas of the country. That's offer.
Speaker 2: But I really summed it up. I'm born and raised
Speaker 2: in Philly. That's that's leaks shams in a nutshell.
Speaker 1: So tell us a little bit about how you got
Speaker 1: into golf and when when did you just when did
Speaker 1: you start taking pictures? Were you always into photography or
Speaker 1: was it something that it kind of came later in life?
Speaker 2: You know, that's an interesting question. Both the golf and
Speaker 2: the photography came rather late, at least later than most people.
Speaker 2: I guess. I didn't play golf until late in college.
Speaker 2: I had never played the game growing up. For handicapper,
Speaker 2: I certainly wish that I'd started earlier now, but such
Speaker 2: as life. The first round of golf I ever played
Speaker 2: was a round that was set up by my father's
Speaker 2: boss at a course near here called Heartfelt National. They
Speaker 2: had the guy drop out and we're desperately scrambling to
Speaker 2: fill out the forsome so they asked me if I
Speaker 2: wanted to tag along and play and you know, growing up,
Speaker 2: I was always a baseball, football, basketball kind of guy,
Speaker 2: you know, the core sports, and considering myself, you know,
Speaker 2: I want to be athlete in the regular sports, so
Speaker 2: to speak. And frankly, it always kind of looked down
Speaker 2: at golf as both a recreational thing and a professional thing.
Speaker 2: I never watched it on TV, never really got into it.
Speaker 2: So I sort of begrudgingly agreed to go tag along
Speaker 2: with these guys and see what gos was all about,
Speaker 2: thinking both that I would be bored out of my
Speaker 2: mind and that it would be the easiest sports that
Speaker 2: I'd ever played. And obviously I was wrong on both counts.
Speaker 2: Shot one hundred and twenty six. Still remember that very clearly,
Speaker 2: and was absolutely hooked from the very first home. I mean,
Speaker 2: you hear people talk about with the golf bug. It
Speaker 2: bit me, and it bit me hard. From that point on,
Speaker 2: I think since then, I have been playing as much
Speaker 2: as I humanly possibly can, getting out constantly, and it's
Speaker 2: been great because it's given my father and I have
Speaker 2: a common ground and a common thing to do together,
Speaker 2: which is obviously a big benefit that I think a
Speaker 2: lot of people share in the game of golf. So
Speaker 2: that started me off. And now, since I guess I'm
Speaker 2: getting older here, that was about fifteen years ago and
Speaker 2: I've been ever since. The photography came much much later,
Speaker 2: at least as it relates to golf. I've always been
Speaker 2: somewhat interested in photography. I mean, I've never never taken
Speaker 2: classes or done anything, you know, official with respect to photography,
Speaker 2: but there's always be something that it's been an interest
Speaker 2: of mine I casually pursue. I mean, I've always owned
Speaker 2: a camera. I take it with me on vacations, annoying
Speaker 2: my wife, you know, things like that. But the two
Speaker 2: had two didn't really combined seriously until about three four
Speaker 2: years ago, when, for whatever reason, I happened to have
Speaker 2: a camera with me when I was going to play
Speaker 2: a particular golf course. I don't even remember which one
Speaker 2: it was, but I took some pictures while I was there.
Speaker 2: They came out fairly well, so I posted them online
Speaker 2: and got a nice response. And even more than that,
Speaker 2: I realized that taking the photos and having them actually
Speaker 2: heightened my enjoyment of the round and help me to
Speaker 2: experience the joy of playing a really nice new golf course.
Speaker 2: Over a longer period of time. So it's nice to
Speaker 2: have to go back and sort of relive some of
Speaker 2: the course and look at the photos and see things
Speaker 2: that I might have missed. And it also makes the
Speaker 2: round itself a little more enjoyable because I'm looking for
Speaker 2: certain things while I play and shoot that I might
Speaker 2: not otherwise be looking for or care about, depending on
Speaker 2: how on or off my actual golf game is on
Speaker 2: a given day. You know, if you if you're playing
Speaker 2: well and hitting it down the middle, you have a
Speaker 2: tendency to ignore a lot of the course that you
Speaker 2: might otherwise see. So in an event four or five
Speaker 2: years ago through four years ago, I started taking some
Speaker 2: photos here and there, and since then it's it's the
Speaker 2: response to the photos I've taken and to sharing them
Speaker 2: online and on various websites have been extraordinarily positive, which
Speaker 2: is certainly in encouragement to keep it going. So I've
Speaker 2: been doing it since then and that I've really been
Speaker 2: getting a kick out of it since it's been nice.
Speaker 1: So so with the photos, I mean, you know, you
Speaker 1: started and you're you're an average joe like all of us,
Speaker 1: and you know what are like some of the Yeah,
Speaker 1: so what you know, obviously where what the pictures you
Speaker 1: post now, you know, for somebody, even for me, I
Speaker 1: take pictures around a golf course. I'm colorblind, I'm kind
Speaker 1: of an idiot, so I'm not I'm not good at
Speaker 1: taking pictures. You know, some things I've picked up our elevation,
Speaker 1: you know, I watched for a light. But I don't
Speaker 1: really know what I'm doing. But what are some like
Speaker 1: really easy things that you did that you saw drastic
Speaker 1: jumps with your you know, abilities of taking pictures.
Speaker 2: That's actually another really good question. The first thing I
Speaker 2: will tell you is that the practice is invaluable. Especially
Speaker 2: when I was just kicking this all, I would shoot
Speaker 2: a ton of photos than I still do. And after
Speaker 2: the fact, when you review them, you see what works
Speaker 2: better than other things, what photos came out nicer than others,
Speaker 2: and you start to realize some commonalities between them, and
Speaker 2: you learn why certain photos look better than others and
Speaker 2: why some come out looking like crap. And even now
Speaker 2: I probably throw half of the photos that I take
Speaker 2: on a given day in the virtual trash can, so
Speaker 2: to speak, because they didn't come out well for one
Speaker 2: reason or another. So it's definitely a learning process, and
Speaker 2: practice is obviously a key point of that learning process.
Speaker 3: Beyond that, it's you know, photography is really just all
Speaker 3: about capturing the lights in the right way. So once
Speaker 3: you learn how light interacts with whatever camera you're using,
Speaker 3: it goes a.
Speaker 2: Long way towards understanding why certain photos look nice and
Speaker 2: others don't. And unfortunately, to the extent we're outdoors, we
Speaker 2: don't really have control over the light. So there are
Speaker 2: going to be days where the light is bad and
Speaker 2: you're going to come home with an entire role of
Speaker 2: pretty mediocre photos. There's other days where it's perfect and
Speaker 2: you can't possibly take a bad shot. So some of
Speaker 2: it is out of your hands. With respect to taking
Speaker 2: pictures of certain things that you can you can look
Speaker 2: back on and determine whether you like or not. I
Speaker 2: like to experiment with different angles and different perspectives that
Speaker 2: you don't usually see most people you see online, they
Speaker 2: stand on the t box, they take a photo. They
Speaker 2: stand in the middle of the fairway, they take a
Speaker 2: photo of the green. Maybe they get up closer to
Speaker 2: the green and they take a picture. It's sort of one, two,
Speaker 2: three in a row of the natural progression of a
Speaker 2: golf hole. The biggest thing I would recommend as part
Speaker 2: of the practice is just to get off the straight
Speaker 2: line path and do some things that are different. Shoot
Speaker 2: from behind the green with the pin in the center
Speaker 2: of the frame, looking back up the fairway. Shoot from
Speaker 2: inside of a bunker, get down low and shoot the
Speaker 2: green surface. You can see how the green rolls and moves.
Speaker 2: Shoot at different times a day. Obviously, the best time
Speaker 2: of day I think to shoot is in the hour
Speaker 2: or so before sunset, but dawn is a wonderful time.
Speaker 2: Depending on how the clouds look at a given day,
Speaker 2: you can get out there in the brightest part of
Speaker 2: the afternoon and get some really neat shots. But the
Speaker 2: point is you really need to learn what works for
Speaker 2: your own eye, and the only way to do that,
Speaker 2: at least in my in my sphere of knowledge here,
Speaker 2: is to shoot a ton of photos. Shoot as many
Speaker 2: as you can, as often as you can, in as
Speaker 2: many different conditions as you can, and sooner or little
Speaker 2: you will learn what you like and what the people
Speaker 2: you share your photos with like, and it becomes easier
Speaker 2: over time. I generally know now as soon as I
Speaker 2: step on the first tea, if I have my camera
Speaker 2: with me, whether it's going to be a good day
Speaker 2: for photos or whether they're going to come out looking
Speaker 2: like prep And that just comes with shooting a ton
Speaker 2: of photos over time.
Speaker 1: So do you carry like when you say you're you're
Speaker 1: going out to play, do you carry like a is
Speaker 1: it a bigger camera or is it a smaller one?
Speaker 1: Or do you use your phone a lot of times?
Speaker 1: You know, if you're if you're playing with save four
Speaker 1: buddies or three buddies.
Speaker 2: So it depends where I'm playing. If I'm heading down
Speaker 2: to the club to play around, or I'm going to
Speaker 2: a course that I've played a hundred times or that
Speaker 2: I already have photos of, I'll usually just carry my phone.
Speaker 2: But if I'm going to a place where I know
Speaker 2: I'm going to want to take photos, especially if it's
Speaker 2: a new course that I've ever played, or if it's
Speaker 2: a course that I know is going to lend itself
Speaker 2: really well to photos, I'll bring my camera. And I
Speaker 2: usually do try to bring my camera to to most
Speaker 2: of the places that I go. I don't shoot with
Speaker 2: a big camera. I don't shoot with the DSLR I
Speaker 2: have one, but I shoot the majority of my photos
Speaker 2: while i'm playing. Uh, And you obviously can't carry a
Speaker 2: around the next DSLR when you're playing around to go,
Speaker 2: So I shoot with a with a Sony Mark five
Speaker 2: DSc one hundred, which is a very small point and
Speaker 2: shoot camera that fits in your pocket. You can stick
Speaker 2: it in your pot, your pants pocket, or your shirt
Speaker 2: pocket while you're playing and easily play around the golf
Speaker 2: without bothering you. And it takes terrific photos. Uh. It's
Speaker 2: the camera that I recommend to everyone. It's not the
Speaker 2: cheapest camera you're ever going to see for point and shoot,
Speaker 2: but it is absolutely tremendous for golf photos and pro
Speaker 2: photos of of whatever you want to shoot. It's really terrific.
Speaker 2: There are I guess a few occasions where i'll i'll,
Speaker 2: and I could probably count them on one hand over
Speaker 2: the last five years where I've shot golf with with
Speaker 2: the big dfl R. I don't think it makes much
Speaker 2: of a difference. You know, somebody hired me to go
Speaker 2: to their golf course to shoot photos. That's probably the
Speaker 2: camera that I've used, just because it gives me maximum
Speaker 2: flexibility both with the camera and in terms of editing
Speaker 2: the shots afterwards. But they're all playing around the golf
Speaker 2: and you know, I'm not I'm not lugging that thing
Speaker 2: around with me and I'm not going back out after
Speaker 2: the round. I shoot ninety five percent of my photos
Speaker 2: while I'm playing golf.
Speaker 1: I think that's the way to do it. It's like a
Speaker 1: I've noticed, you know, I'm trying to up my game
Speaker 1: with camp with the pictures, but I've noticed that the
Speaker 1: first round where I started taking lots of pictures and
Speaker 1: trying to play with buddies, it was it was so hard.
Speaker 1: You know, You're like, you're you're running around the golf.
Speaker 1: I felt like I walked to eighteen's, you know, and
Speaker 1: my buddies were, you know, out running ahead of me,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, slow down.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It's a It took a little time, but now I
Speaker 1: feel like once you get used to it, you've become
Speaker 1: like a pro and you're kind of out ahead of
Speaker 1: everybody absolutely.
Speaker 2: And that's another thing that practice will help with. The
Speaker 2: more you do it, the more natural whole process seems in,
Speaker 2: the easier it comes. One of the things that when
Speaker 2: I'm doing this, my my number one cardinal rule when
Speaker 2: I'm out shooting golf is don't slow the group down
Speaker 2: and don't annoy the people that I am playing with.
Speaker 2: So I'm a very fast golfer anyway. I know everybody
Speaker 2: says that, but I play golf to the point that
Speaker 2: it's probably hurting my game. I play so quick. I
Speaker 2: just don't have much chalance for slow golf. It's actually,
Speaker 2: you know, sort of a pet peeve of mine. So
Speaker 2: I've been getting used to doing this. It's very easy
Speaker 2: for me to both hit my ball and take photos
Speaker 2: and still easily keep up with most people that I
Speaker 2: play with. You if you find yourself slowing down your group,
Speaker 2: not only are you going to take photos that probably
Speaker 2: don't live up to your own expectations, but you're going
Speaker 2: to play poor golf. And to me, that sort of
Speaker 2: defeats the purpose. I mean, I'm out there, first and
Speaker 2: foremost to play an enjoyable around the golf with the
Speaker 2: people that I'm with. If taking photos is cutting into that,
Speaker 2: I stop taking the photos. I mean, it's important to
Speaker 2: keep your priority straight. I mean, really is about the golf,
Speaker 2: not necessarily about the photos. So if the photos, I
Speaker 2: guess what I'm trying to say. The photos are very
Speaker 2: much a by product of around the golf. They're not
Speaker 2: the primary reason of there, So I try very hard
Speaker 2: to make sure that that perspective remained complaint.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think it's a good one to keep.
Speaker 1: It's so, we got a ton of great questions in
Speaker 1: from Twitter, and I wanted to make this one a
Speaker 1: little different where we kind of just go through the
Speaker 1: questions and let that kind of guide the conversation and
Speaker 1: we can get on tangents, you know, galore from these questions.
Speaker 1: So the first one is from Kyle and he just
Speaker 1: wants to know, and I saw somebody seconded this, how
Speaker 1: on earth are you able to see and play so
Speaker 1: many great courses?
Speaker 2: So that's obviously a good question, and I'll answer it
Speaker 2: this way. Unfortunate in that I have have a good
Speaker 2: job that involves travel, I have no children, and I
Speaker 2: have an extraordinarily tolerant wife. So that is really, I
Speaker 2: think the sort of a key to being able to
Speaker 2: to travel around and see different golf courses in different places.
Speaker 2: You know, when you're not worrying about you're gonna put
Speaker 2: your kid through school, or you know your wife is
Speaker 2: not in your ear constantly about taking her to somewhere
Speaker 2: to a vacation, it's a lot easier to go see
Speaker 2: these courses, and then as far as sort of the
Speaker 2: second part of that question, I guess an access question.
Speaker 2: I've been very lucky in that I've met so many
Speaker 2: amazing people through golf. I cannot tell you how many
Speaker 2: people I've met over the last fifteen years through golf
Speaker 2: that I now consider my dearest friends. And that network
Speaker 2: is a really useful tool, uh, when you're specifically seeking
Speaker 2: out a certain course that you really want to see.
Speaker 2: I was down in Florida last week and a very
Speaker 2: good buddy of mine, who is a member of a
Speaker 2: couple of clubs down south, was able to set up
Speaker 2: seminal for us. He knew that I really wanted to
Speaker 2: see it, and he was kind enough to set it
Speaker 2: up for me without even asking. I have found that
Speaker 2: people who love golf also happened to be some of
Speaker 2: the most generous people that I've ever I've ever encountered. Uh,
Speaker 2: And I think you'll you'll probably second this. People who
Speaker 2: love golf just want to be around and play golf
Speaker 2: and talk golf with other people who are enough about
Speaker 2: the game like they are. So if if Conner here
Speaker 2: is asking for advice on how to see courses, or
Speaker 2: if there's a course that he might have an interest
Speaker 2: in playing. A big part of it is just putting
Speaker 2: yourself out there and meeting other people who love golf.
Speaker 2: I mean, you never know when you run into a
Speaker 2: guy who has a sweater own that has a logo,
Speaker 2: of of course you recognize of conversation with him, you
Speaker 2: never know where that guy is a member at, and
Speaker 2: he might become a useful contact in the future, and
Speaker 2: more importantly than that, he might become a buddy that
Speaker 2: joins your Sunday force and later one of your friends,
Speaker 2: or a buddy who you go on golf trips. But
Speaker 2: I can't tell you I'm any golf trips I've gone
Speaker 2: on with people I hadn't met before we arrived at
Speaker 2: wherever we were going with golf. I just think it's
Speaker 2: such a communal game in that respect, and it's really
Speaker 2: interesting to see how the more people you meet, the
Speaker 2: bigger your sort of world gets and your ability to
Speaker 2: see the places you want to see. And then obviously
Speaker 2: the corollary to that is it's just important to be
Speaker 2: a generous person and somebody that people like to spend
Speaker 2: time with. In return, I get contacted all the time
Speaker 2: by people who will come into Philadelphia, who might want
Speaker 2: to see certain courses or might just ask me, hey, listen,
Speaker 2: I'm going to be in town for a couple of days,
Speaker 2: where should I play? And I not only enjoy when
Speaker 2: people reach out to me and ask me those kind
Speaker 2: of questions, but if I can help in any way,
Speaker 2: I'm happy to do that. And I think that that
Speaker 2: kind of that kind of helping others really does lend
Speaker 2: itself to getting to getting it returned to you in
Speaker 2: one good way or another. So I just the bottom
Speaker 2: line is this, you have to make yourself available. You
Speaker 2: have to have to go out and meet people, and
Speaker 2: you've got to be open to both playing with people
Speaker 2: that you don't know, getting comfortable in a situation where
Speaker 2: you're you're the new guy in a group, and you
Speaker 2: really just have to have a taste for meeting people.
Speaker 2: I mean that's both in business and in golf. Networking
Speaker 2: is such a key point and such a critical aspect
Speaker 2: of success that it's something that I don't think anybody
Speaker 2: can be too good at. Yeah, it's something that I
Speaker 2: enjoy doing. It's something that meeting new people is always
Speaker 2: something I enjoy. So it's been good in that respect then,
Speaker 2: and of course luck, you know, it obviously entailed a
Speaker 2: lot of luck to get on certain courses, as I'm
Speaker 2: sure your listeners know, and and certainly I've had very
Speaker 2: good fortune in that respect over the last couple of
Speaker 2: couple of years. And it's it's absolutely not something that
Speaker 2: I would ever take for granted.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, you know, if you're a golf junkie
Speaker 1: and you put yourself in the right situation, and you know,
Speaker 1: I think a big part about it is like, you know,
Speaker 1: people want to take people out there that they know
Speaker 1: are going to enjoy the experience. You know, it's not
Speaker 1: necessarily like I don't think the right reason is I'm
Speaker 1: checking one of the top one hundred off my lists.
Speaker 1: Like that's not necessarily a good reason. But a great
Speaker 1: reason is like I want to go see the great architecture,
Speaker 1: or you know, I really want to like having a
Speaker 1: purpose and having a real like is something that I've
Speaker 1: found that you know, you know, is that I've found
Speaker 1: that you know, I write a lot about architecture, and
Speaker 1: you know, people want to show you the architecture of
Speaker 1: their golf course, and you know, I'm I don't I
Speaker 1: could give you know, I could care less what number
Speaker 1: of golf courses on golf die just top one hundred lists.
Speaker 1: What I really want to see is the architecture. Like
Speaker 1: a perfect example is in your backyard. Of course, I'm
Speaker 1: kind of dying to play is White Marsh Valley, and
Speaker 1: I want to play there because yeah, it's George Thomas
Speaker 1: is who for those of you that don't know, it's
Speaker 1: his first design and it was and he's the same
Speaker 1: guy that designed bel Air Riviera Laccne Nor So you know,
Speaker 1: getting to see see an architects first design is you know,
Speaker 1: something really cool. So that's a place that's really high
Speaker 1: on my list, and you won't find it on any
Speaker 1: top one hundred lists, you know. I think that that's
Speaker 1: an important aspect of you know, getting the access places,
Speaker 1: is that you're doing it for the right reason.
Speaker 2: I could not agree with you more. Uh, And not
Speaker 2: only that, but I think that's exactly the kind of
Speaker 2: attitude and talking about when when you're you're putting yourself
Speaker 2: out there. I mean, some of my most enjoyable rounds
Speaker 2: this year and in years past have been at courses
Speaker 2: that that won't sniff a golf magazine or a golf
Speaker 2: digest list, and just in the last couple of months alone.
Speaker 2: Glen Falls is a course that I've been I've been
Speaker 2: putting a lot of photos out on Twitter and Instagram.
Speaker 2: That place is incredible as far as the architecture is concerned.
Speaker 2: Country Club at Troy uh Ortard Lake out in out
Speaker 2: in Michigan, amazing golf course, not on any top one
Speaker 2: hundred lists, and that's really what I love. There is
Speaker 2: nothing that makes me happier than seeing a course that
Speaker 2: just surprises me to no end. And if you're if
Speaker 2: you're into that, you can be assured that there are
Speaker 2: members at courses who are golf nuts just like you
Speaker 2: and me, who would love nothing more than for some
Speaker 2: enthusiastic golfner to come out check out their course and
Speaker 2: talk to them about architecture over a beer.
Speaker 1: It's uh yeah, I think that that I find more
Speaker 1: joy in finding those gems you know that not a
Speaker 1: lot of people know about, but are just fantastic places
Speaker 1: to play golf. And a lot of times, I mean
Speaker 1: the club the clubs, Oh yeah, I think like you know,
Speaker 1: Manufacturers is a perfect example of that. I played. I
Speaker 1: was blown away by Applebrook out there. I thought that
Speaker 1: was really good. Yeah, and it's you know, there's a
Speaker 1: bunch of them in Chicago too. I mean there there
Speaker 1: are a bunch of them everywhere. I think that, you know,
Speaker 1: like a you know, you look at all these places.
Speaker 1: Is a lot of times these Golden age architects like
Speaker 1: you know, maybe not the highest thought of course in
Speaker 1: the area. Sometimes are you know, the most fun to play,
Speaker 1: because they aren't, you know, they aren't trying to be
Speaker 1: a championship golf course. They're trying to be a fun
Speaker 1: golf course.
Speaker 2: Yes, and I quite frankly, I am not good enough
Speaker 2: to play a championship golf course the way it's supposed
Speaker 2: to be played. But I am just about good enough
Speaker 2: to play a quirky, funky Seth.
Speaker 4: Rayner design that has the same length that it did
Speaker 4: in nineteen twenty when they were using full.
Speaker 2: Hickory's and a ball made out of bird feathers, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the kind of golf that appeals to me.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to be trying out for the my
Speaker 2: Tour card anytime soon. So the idea of a course
Speaker 2: being seventy five hundred yards and having rough that's six
Speaker 2: inches deep in greens that are running fifteen doesn't appeal
Speaker 2: to me at all. But that weird little Golden Age
Speaker 2: design and it's barely been touched, that is in some
Speaker 2: neighborhood that nobody even drives through on their way to
Speaker 2: the US Open Course down the street, is exactly what
Speaker 2: I'm after when I'm going to a new city.
Speaker 1: So, you know, you say so, I'm curious, how do
Speaker 1: you go about scheduling like your year of trips? And
Speaker 1: you know, you know, what are some of the new
Speaker 1: places that you're looking at for twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2: Already good question. So weather has a lot to do
Speaker 2: with it as a as I'm sure you know, being
Speaker 2: from the Chicago area. Once about December fifteenth hits here,
Speaker 2: it's probably a little earlier for you. Golf is pretty
Speaker 2: much over. So from just about this time of year
Speaker 2: through the end of March, I'm just looking to get
Speaker 2: the hell out of here and go somewhere warmer. Ideally
Speaker 2: there's going to be golf there. If there isn't, I
Speaker 2: will find it. But I am looking for warm weather
Speaker 2: destinations at this point in time. If I have a
Speaker 2: work trip that takes me somewhere where the temperatures are
Speaker 2: going to get over six in the winter even better,
Speaker 2: but if not, I'm still getting out of town. My
Speaker 2: wife and I usually try to go down to South
Speaker 2: Carolina every December, and obviously there's some great golf there.
Speaker 2: But as long as I can get away to a
Speaker 2: couple of warm weather spots this time of year, I'll
Speaker 2: be happy in summer months. It's really just about picking
Speaker 2: areas that have courses that I'm interested in. The other
Speaker 2: interesting thing is that my wife is a big marathoner
Speaker 2: and triathlete, and every year she tries to do one
Speaker 2: big race in some far away location in the US. So,
Speaker 2: for example, she's got a big race in Kurdalene, Idaho,
Speaker 2: this coming August. So that's a great opportunity for me
Speaker 2: to go out there and play the courses in and
Speaker 2: around Kurdalen, to go over and play Rock Creek Cattle,
Speaker 2: play Godza Ranch, maybe even take a trip a little
Speaker 2: further west and play gamble sands. You know, those are
Speaker 2: really nice things to have that my wife and I
Speaker 2: can do together to you know, make this thing seem
Speaker 2: more reasonable and all this crazy golf and not leads
Speaker 2: to divorced.
Speaker 1: That's it. You know, it's gotta be tough for her,
Speaker 1: it's training was that elevation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she uh, A lot of the things that she
Speaker 2: she does would would kill a lesser man like, but
Speaker 2: she's she's done great with it. She she really loved it.
Speaker 2: And uh. The the the fact that we can jointly
Speaker 2: do a vacation to somewhere in the middle of nowhere
Speaker 2: that will allow me to play a couple of rounds
Speaker 2: of golf at some really nice places while she gets
Speaker 2: to do something too, uh and we get to see
Speaker 2: the a new area of the country that we've never
Speaker 2: seen before. It's it's really a nice a nice benefit
Speaker 2: of of our little settle.
Speaker 1: That's cool.
Speaker 2: That'll be that will definitely be a fun trip for
Speaker 2: this year. You know.
Speaker 1: It's one one out there that I've wanted to check
Speaker 1: out and I've heard so much about is Sylvie's Ranch.
Speaker 1: It's out and it's in Oregon. I think it's in
Speaker 1: like the eastern part of Oregon. And it's a Dan
Speaker 1: Hickson and it's it's a reversible course. So it was
Speaker 1: actually yeah, so he started it before Doak started the Loop.
Speaker 1: But like you know, there, I don't know what the
Speaker 1: deal with their ownership hasn't you know, wasn't ready to
Speaker 1: do the resort yet, so they didn't. You know, the
Speaker 1: course is pretty much done though, which in it looks
Speaker 1: spectacular from the pictures I've seen.
Speaker 2: I would love to see it. I do know. I've
Speaker 2: heard of the course that you're talking about. I don't
Speaker 2: know too much about it. I don't think much of
Speaker 2: out there about it. But that's exactly the kind of
Speaker 2: course that I would love to see out that way.
Speaker 2: Another one I'm looking at possibly seeing. It's sort of
Speaker 2: in the middle of nowhere, at this place called Sutton Bay,
Speaker 2: which is in I think South Dakota. But I just
Speaker 2: stumbled upon it the other day and it just looked beautiful,
Speaker 2: caught my eye, and now it's on my always growing
Speaker 2: list of places I would like to check out at
Speaker 2: some point or another.
Speaker 1: Yeah, my list, guess I think I add like four
Speaker 1: or five to my list every day, and it's it's
Speaker 1: just it's awful.
Speaker 2: If I could play half of my list between now
Speaker 2: and whenever I die, I will consider that a rousing success.
Speaker 2: So the list, it doesn't matter how much golf I play,
Speaker 2: the list always grows.
Speaker 1: So now that we're on your list, let's let's hear
Speaker 1: like you know what are where are the top five
Speaker 1: courses on that list that you haven't gotten to yet?
Speaker 2: On my wish list, the number one is, without question Cyprus.
Speaker 2: Point I've only I've only done one trip to the
Speaker 2: the San Francisco in the Northern California area, and I
Speaker 2: was very fortunate and I got to play a lot
Speaker 2: of really great courses. But Cyprus is absolutely far and
Speaker 2: away the number one course on my wish lists, both
Speaker 2: domestically and abroad. I am dying to see it for
Speaker 2: reasons that we don't really need to get into, because
Speaker 2: it's obviously anybody who's ever picked up a club, but
Speaker 2: that is a place that you know, I'm dying to play.
Speaker 2: I'm also hoping and planning to play Pine Valley in
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen. It's a little ridiculous given that it's fifteen
Speaker 2: minutes from my house. I've had it set up i
Speaker 2: think four times in the past, and through what is
Speaker 2: becoming an absolute comedy of circumstances, the round has fallen
Speaker 2: through each time. Hurricane Sandy ruined one of the round.
Speaker 2: Poor a member who had been so kind to invite
Speaker 2: me for one of the rounds actually died before we
Speaker 2: got a chance to play one time. It snowed on
Speaker 2: the day that we were supposed to play. So Pine
Speaker 2: Valley has become sort of the white whale locally, and
Speaker 2: it's even more frustrating, like I said, since I can
Speaker 2: practically see it from my deck, so I would be
Speaker 2: on the I really want to see sand Hills this year.
Speaker 5: Yeah, certainly the best modern that I've never seen, way
Speaker 5: up there on my list is Camargo, which is probably the.
Speaker 2: Best seth Rainer, of course, of them. I'm a huge
Speaker 2: steed in McDonald, Seth Rayner, Charlie Banks fan, and I've
Speaker 2: played what I'll say, most seth Rainers courses, but Camargo
Speaker 2: is one that I have heard nothing but wonderful things about.
Speaker 2: So I'm very much looking.
Speaker 1: Forward to playing their best set of template part threes
Speaker 1: of any Rainer McDonald.
Speaker 2: They say, so I've heard, I've heard the same thing.
Speaker 1: So so for incredible for the for the audience out there,
Speaker 1: something that very few people I think some people know,
Speaker 1: but you know, if if you are, if you are
Speaker 1: good enough to be able to try and qualify for
Speaker 1: a U s A. Every single year, Camargo hosts the
Speaker 1: USAM qualifier. So for one hundred and fifty bucks to
Speaker 1: the USGA. You get a practice round and two other
Speaker 1: two tournament rounds at Camargo Country Club. So that's something
Speaker 1: that you know, if you are a golf architecture nerd
Speaker 1: and a good player, that should be something that's a
Speaker 1: on your list of things to do.
Speaker 2: And from what I know about Camargo, I am not
Speaker 2: quite good enough to play in a USM qualifier. But
Speaker 2: if what I will say is even having not played
Speaker 2: Camargo but having heard so many good things about it,
Speaker 2: for one hundred and fifty dollars, that's the kind of
Speaker 2: thing that I would absolutely plan golf trip around.
Speaker 6: Yes, if any of your listeners have the handicap and
Speaker 6: the desire, I would. I would certainly make that trip
Speaker 6: and we could talk about this later. In Ohio is
Speaker 6: sort of the great untapped area for me. There are
Speaker 6: so many.
Speaker 2: Courses that I want to play in Ohio. It's one
Speaker 2: of the few areas that I haven't spent. I've spent
Speaker 2: almost no time in Ohio, and it is just shock
Speaker 2: full of dynamite classic courses with terrisdic architectures. I would I.
Speaker 1: I haven't played a ton in Ohio either, and I
Speaker 1: was amazed. A buddy of mine was going to Cleveland
Speaker 1: for something. He asked me, Hey, where should I play
Speaker 1: in Cleveland? So you know, I was like, well, let
Speaker 1: me do some research, and I pulled it up. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's multiple Stanley Thompson designs, There's tons of Donald Ross.
Speaker 1: I mean, there are so many. And these are all
Speaker 1: public access courses. You know, the city of Cleveland operates
Speaker 1: I think to Stanley Thompson designs and one or two
Speaker 1: Donald Ross designs. They are supposed to be spectacular courses.
Speaker 2: It's it's incredible, both on the public and private side.
Speaker 2: How much good golf ohioland and it's a crime that
Speaker 2: I haven't gotten out out there more than I have.
Speaker 2: I mean, I've driven through Ohio to go to Chicago,
Speaker 2: to go to Wisconsin, to go to Michigan several times,
Speaker 2: but I think I've played something like two courses in
Speaker 2: Ohio and that's just ridiculous given the quality of golf there.
Speaker 1: I know one place you've been. I think, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do my USAM qualifier at Moraine Country Club in Dayton.
Speaker 1: So I heard, I know you went there this year
Speaker 1: and you said it was great.
Speaker 2: It's amazing. That is exactly the kind of course that
Speaker 2: we were talking about earlier when we were talking about
Speaker 2: courses that aren't on any list, although I will say
Speaker 2: that it would not surprise me in the least to
Speaker 2: see Moraine pop up on a couple of those lists
Speaker 2: in the near future now that Keith Foster's work there
Speaker 2: is done. But you talk about a golf course that
Speaker 2: is on an amazing piece of land, that has a
Speaker 2: membership that cares about the course, cares about its history,
Speaker 2: cares about its pedigree, and it's a rich architecture and
Speaker 2: and it has both the means and the desire to
Speaker 2: to get the course back to the way it was
Speaker 2: originally intended to be. And you have a place like Marine.
Speaker 2: It is incredible And I wholeheartedly co signed your decision
Speaker 2: to do your qualifier there. You will love the golf course.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, As I was like, we have just the
Speaker 1: worst sites in uh Illinois this year, so I'm just
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go out of state for I think all
Speaker 1: of them and just find some cool courses. I think
Speaker 1: one of the mid Am sites is a country club
Speaker 1: of Fairfield, But I don't think I'm gonna go out
Speaker 1: there a week before my wedding. I think I'd get
Speaker 1: probably killed. I wouldn't be getting having a wedding if
Speaker 1: that happens.
Speaker 2: I will tell you Fairfield is awfully nice, but since
Speaker 2: I want your wedding to go off, well I won't.
Speaker 2: I won't tell you too much about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So.
Speaker 7: You know, we've seen some some drone pictures from you,
Speaker 7: and Drew is curious about what kind of drone you use,
Speaker 7: and he's he just got a Phantom three Pro and
Speaker 7: he's been kind of hurt by the recent weather.
Speaker 2: So I certainly feel Drew's pain. I actually my prior
Speaker 2: drone to the one I'm using now as a Phantom
Speaker 2: three Pro like Drew's using, and that's a terrific drone.
Speaker 2: I unfortunately crashed my drone, and one of the things
Speaker 2: I will tell you is good luck getting a drone
Speaker 2: repaired anywhere in the comminental of the United States, especially
Speaker 2: if it's a DJI drone like I use. They just
Speaker 2: there's nobody who will touch it, and it's just not
Speaker 2: quite worth sending it all the way back to Japan
Speaker 2: to it worked on. So having crashed that one I
Speaker 2: earlier this year before on my trips I went out
Speaker 2: and I got the Phantom four, which is very much
Speaker 2: like the one Drew's using, with a couple extra features.
Speaker 2: But it's a it's a wonderful photography tool. It's a
Speaker 2: wonderful tool to play with, especially if you are sort
Speaker 2: of a gadget geek, like I think most photographers and
Speaker 2: most golfers are. They're a blast to play with, and
Speaker 2: I have been really, really thrilled with some of the
Speaker 2: photos that I've managed to.
Speaker 8: Pull out of my drone this year. Uh, it's been
Speaker 8: it's been a good year for that, and I think
Speaker 8: who's gonna have a good time with it? They are,
Speaker 8: They're really a blast to use, and they're they're.
Speaker 2: Just perfect for golf photography. I mean, the nature of
Speaker 2: a golf course lends itself to those those elevated perspective
Speaker 2: photos like nothing else. It's it's just a great tool
Speaker 2: if you're looking to capture golf courses from an interesting perspective.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I've been kicking around the idea of getting one.
Speaker 1: I feel like I just really miss out on getting Like,
Speaker 1: you know, I think Chris Spence does a great job
Speaker 1: getting like green Ngel with his drone shots and whenever
Speaker 1: I look at yours, I just like, God, I want
Speaker 1: one of these, but it's.
Speaker 2: A lot of fun. I will. I'll just recommend that,
Speaker 2: you know, don't spend a lot of money on your
Speaker 2: first one, because you will almost certainly crash.
Speaker 6: It, almost to guarantee.
Speaker 2: But anybody who asks me whether they should get a drone,
Speaker 2: my response is always the same. If you can afford
Speaker 2: it and you think you might want one, to get it,
Speaker 2: because you'll really enjoy using it, even if you don't
Speaker 2: use it regarf that much. They're just a blast to
Speaker 2: send up and fly around and get an interesting perspective
Speaker 2: on things that you wouldn't otherwise have. There are a
Speaker 2: lot of fun and well, well they're certainly not They're
Speaker 2: not cheap. You can get, especially nowadays, you can get
Speaker 2: a really high quality drone that's going to give you
Speaker 2: really good performance and really good pictures for a very
Speaker 2: reason price. I think you can get a fan of
Speaker 2: three these days for something like five hundred bucks, which,
Speaker 2: you know, five hundred dollars is a lot of money,
Speaker 2: but that's around the pedal beach, you know, for a
Speaker 2: drone that you're gonna have until you end up crashing it.
Speaker 1: So if if you're interested until it takes beat.
Speaker 2: Right, it's exactly exactly so. And like I said, some
Speaker 2: of the the photos and the courses that I'm going
Speaker 2: to shoot this year with the drone have have really
Speaker 2: turned out well. And I just figured out how to
Speaker 2: fly with my drone too, So now when I travel
Speaker 2: by air, I can take it with me and and
Speaker 2: shoot some courses that aren't aren't near Philly. So I'm
Speaker 2: looking forward to doing that in twenty seven, especially by
Speaker 2: the way, if I can get if I can find
Speaker 2: myself away to sand Hills and baling Neil and his
Speaker 2: other course, Oh god, I would love to shoot those
Speaker 2: with a drone. Wow, would they come out looking me?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been thinking about doing that trip too. I
Speaker 1: you know, it's just it's gonna be a week. But
Speaker 1: you know, they go out there and do Prairie Clubs
Speaker 1: out there too, which is supposed to be a really
Speaker 1: really good facility. And bally Neil sand Hills its yeah,
Speaker 1: dismal rivers right there. I mean, I guess right there
Speaker 1: isn't that good of a description. But yeah, when you
Speaker 1: get into when you get into sand Hills, like three
Speaker 1: hours is like right around the corner.
Speaker 2: That qualifies to the next door in that part of
Speaker 2: the world.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, you know, Michael is and this is a
Speaker 1: place that's high on my list of places to check out.
Speaker 1: You know, he's trying to get you to see Culver.
Speaker 1: He wants to know what does it take, You know, Michael,
Speaker 1: all it.
Speaker 2: Takes is warm weather and a message on what they
Speaker 2: works for you. I would love to see Culver. That
Speaker 2: place looks incredible, especially after the walk they've done there.
Speaker 2: I mean, I have an affection for nine whole courses,
Speaker 2: actually for non traditional courses, whether they're you know, nine holes,
Speaker 2: whether it's a course like abandoned preserved thirteen whole park
Speaker 2: three course. I love seeing courses that don't fit the
Speaker 2: traditional eighteen hole part seventy two, you know, sixty eight
Speaker 2: hundred yard model, and Culver looks like a place that
Speaker 2: has nailed that model down close to perfection. It just
Speaker 2: looks amazing. I would love to see it, and I'll
Speaker 2: certainly tell Michael that it will not take much to
Speaker 2: get me out there.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, they've got the course was done by
Speaker 1: one of the most underrated architects duos of all time,
Speaker 1: Langford Moreau and those guys were you know, Brainer McDonald's disciples.
Speaker 1: We see a ton of their work here in Chicago,
Speaker 1: but not a lot of people know of them outside
Speaker 1: of you know, the kind of the Midwest, Wisconsin and Illinois, Indiana.
Speaker 1: So the great architects. Another nine hole spot that I
Speaker 1: saw this year that was, you know, blew me away
Speaker 1: with Sweden's Cove. So yeah, I would highly recommend a
Speaker 1: Chattanooga trip because there's a lot of good golf.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there really is. In Tennessee, like Ohio is an
Speaker 2: area that I really have to get to. You know.
Speaker 2: Lookout Mountain is down there, which is for for your listeners,
Speaker 2: is another rain of course that I haven't seen, but
Speaker 2: would absolutely love to. Sweden's Cove is most definitely on
Speaker 2: my list. Everybody I know that's played there just raves
Speaker 2: about the place. You know, I've seen photos. They look incredible.
Speaker 2: Everything about the place is just screaming out for a visit.
Speaker 2: And of course in Tennessee then you have the big
Speaker 2: dogs like Honors Course, and then not certainly down in Atlanta,
Speaker 2: there's a couple others that there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there's a there's another course, Black Creek there
Speaker 1: that's a Brian Brian Silva design that you know is
Speaker 1: modeled after Rayner McDonald too. That's it's supposed to be
Speaker 1: really good. So and then then there's a course in Knoxville,
Speaker 1: Holston Hills that yeah, that was. That was an awesome,
Speaker 1: awesome place.
Speaker 2: Told me that Holston Hills is one of the purest
Speaker 2: rosses they've ever played.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's It's like so the it's an interesting story.
Speaker 1: The club was always on the wrong side of the tracks.
Speaker 1: So essentially, when you know, golf was in its death
Speaker 1: period of architecture, they didn't have any money to plant
Speaker 1: trees and mess it up. So now they have, you know,
Speaker 1: one of the primo ross courses in all the country.
Speaker 1: I mean, this place is so playable, it's so fun.
Speaker 1: I mean, they've got a one of the coolest volcano
Speaker 1: holes that you'll ever see. It's like a three hundred
Speaker 1: yard uphill par four. Just I mean, it is a great,
Speaker 1: great golf course.
Speaker 2: I can't wait to see the buddy of mine is
Speaker 2: remember there. So maybe we'll have to add the Tennessee
Speaker 2: area to the Winterstic Winter Destination.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's it's and I don't think it's
Speaker 1: not that far. If you do it in the if
Speaker 1: you know, it's not that far from Ohio and you know,
Speaker 1: or Atlanta. Chattanooga's only I think two hours from Atlanta.
Speaker 1: So I always tell people if you're if you're a
Speaker 1: golfer and you live within like five hours of Sweeten's Cove,
Speaker 1: you should go there like once every two months. So
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I like, I've I've had multiple days
Speaker 1: where I've just thought about getting my car and going
Speaker 1: there and it's nine hours away.
Speaker 2: But I know that's feeling. I know that's feeling, especially
Speaker 2: this time of year. I have done some crazy things
Speaker 2: on random December and January days where I just need
Speaker 2: golf and I say, all right, well, I'm getting in
Speaker 2: the car at three in the morning and I'm driving
Speaker 2: south and you know, I'm going to Pinehurst or I'm
Speaker 2: going to South Carolina or whatever, and you know, you
Speaker 2: play thirty six cole, stay overnight, play another round or two,
Speaker 2: and drive home.
Speaker 6: I mean that's sort of the way we northern folk get.
Speaker 2: In the winter time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's get another one of these questions here.
Speaker 1: This is from Chris Butler. What golf course features are
Speaker 1: easiest to capture well with a smartphone? And how do
Speaker 1: we do it. I think we touched on some of
Speaker 1: this a little bit earlier, but I think this is
Speaker 1: this will be a good question.
Speaker 2: So let me let me capture the smartphone. Let me
Speaker 2: talk to the smartphone part. First, smartphones these days are
Speaker 2: so good that anything somebody can do with the camera,
Speaker 2: you can do almost just as well with a smartphone.
Speaker 2: You do not need what we'll call it a real
Speaker 2: camera to take good photos a golf courses. You just don't.
Speaker 2: The iPhone camera is the new Google smartphone, and any
Speaker 2: fansung phone the camera is easily good enough to serve
Speaker 2: as a golf course camera, and that's without exception. So
Speaker 2: the question is really what course features can we capture?
Speaker 2: So the biggest difference with the smartphone is the center
Speaker 2: is smaller and there's no zoom. So what most people,
Speaker 2: at least in my humble opinion, sort of mess up
Speaker 2: when they're trying to take photos of a golf course
Speaker 2: with the smartphone is that they're they're too far away
Speaker 2: from the features they're trying to capture. And like I
Speaker 2: was saying earlier, that's where you get that t shot
Speaker 2: photo where you know, you kind of see the beginning
Speaker 2: of the fair way, and then you get closer to
Speaker 2: the green, everything is getting small, and then the green
Speaker 2: is like a spec way on the distance, and you
Speaker 2: don't really get a perspective on how the whole actually looks.
Speaker 2: You can't really see any features because everything is sort
Speaker 2: of minimized. So the number one recommendation now gives people
Speaker 2: if they're shooting the smartphone, is to find something about
Speaker 2: a given hole or a given course and it's interesting,
Speaker 2: and then get up close and shoot it. Whether that
Speaker 2: is a role of the green, whether it's a bunker feature,
Speaker 2: whether it's an element of a terrain that they think
Speaker 2: is curious or unique or they think might look nice,
Speaker 2: get up close to it and capture it as best
Speaker 2: you can. My really, the only rule that I have
Speaker 2: for cake and golf course photos, and this is not
Speaker 2: a rule that anybody needs to follow, but I think
Speaker 2: it's a good point of reference, is so long as
Speaker 2: you can see the pin in your photo, you're going
Speaker 2: to have a usable photo. So with a smartphone, what
Speaker 2: I like to do, and I shoot a smartphone all
Speaker 2: the time, is to especially get up by the green
Speaker 2: and shoot the way a bunker is arrayed with the
Speaker 2: pin in the background, or get down real low and
Speaker 2: shoot a picture from almost ground level so you can
Speaker 2: see how the green either slopes upward front to back
Speaker 2: or how it rolls in certain spots. But you really
Speaker 2: need to be close to what you're shooting with a smartphone,
Speaker 2: otherwise you're gonna have a picture that is distorted in
Speaker 2: terms of the real way a whole looks, and frankly,
Speaker 2: it's just not gonna be that interesting because you're not
Speaker 2: gonna be able to make out any detail. That's really
Speaker 2: what I think makes a good golf photo. It's a
Speaker 2: photo that that makes you feel like you're actually standing
Speaker 2: there and looking at whatever the photographer's trying to show you.
Speaker 2: And you just can't do that from far away with
Speaker 2: the smartphone. So as long as you're you're up close,
Speaker 2: and you're you're shooting things from a compelling angle or
Speaker 2: from a from a compelling height, you're gonna end up
Speaker 2: with a good photo. The other thing you've got to
Speaker 2: be aware of with the photo is that or with
Speaker 2: a smartphone, is that the photos are going to be
Speaker 2: much more sensitive to the way the light is hitting
Speaker 2: the camera. So if you're shooting into the sun with
Speaker 2: a regular smartphone camera, the picture is not going to
Speaker 2: come out well, so you've got to move to a
Speaker 2: spot where you're not shooting directly into the sun. A
Speaker 2: lot of phones these days have an HDR mode, a
Speaker 2: high dynamic range mode that will allow you to balance
Speaker 2: out and equalize the light and the shadow in a
Speaker 2: picture with a smartphone, and given the limitations of the smartphone,
Speaker 2: this can be a really useful feature. I would recommend
Speaker 2: everybody who shoots the smartphone play with a little bit.
Speaker 2: iPhone has it native in the camera app, but there
Speaker 2: are also third party apps that you can use. The
Speaker 2: only caution I would give people who are trying it
Speaker 2: is it's really easy to get carried away with it
Speaker 2: and end up with a very stake looking photo or
Speaker 2: almost a cartoonish looking photo if you go overboard. But
Speaker 2: if it's choose correctly, it can really be a nice
Speaker 2: tool for somebody with the smartphone where the sensor might
Speaker 2: not be as capable of capturing the bring light conditions
Speaker 2: that we've seen to go. But again, it was a
Speaker 2: long one way of answering a relatively simple and straightforward question.
Speaker 2: But the most important thing is get up close to
Speaker 2: whatever you're shooting. If you're shooting a smartphone.
Speaker 1: Yep, that's a great piece of advice, one that I'm
Speaker 1: actually gonna take to heart, because I am so guilty
Speaker 1: of what you talk about with shooting with a smartphone
Speaker 1: and just taking a picture of a really long haul
Speaker 1: from the team.
Speaker 2: I do it. I do it all the time. And
Speaker 2: it's amazing because I'll be standing on a tee with
Speaker 2: my phone and looking down at the hole and thinking
Speaker 2: this really looks amazing, and I'll shoot the photo, and
Speaker 2: you know, I'll do it a couple more times. I'll
Speaker 2: get home and I can't wait to look at these
Speaker 2: photos that I got, and I'll pull them up and
Speaker 2: it doesn't even look like the same hole that I
Speaker 2: was standing on because the perspective is so it's so
Speaker 2: minimized because of the way the smartphone cameras look. And
Speaker 2: on that point that that's really like I said, you
Speaker 2: certainly don't need what I refer to as a real
Speaker 2: camera to shoot golf course photos. But one of the
Speaker 2: nice things that a real camera like the Sony has
Speaker 2: that can be a really useful pool in shooting golf
Speaker 2: courses is the zoom function, not only because it allows
Speaker 2: you to artificially get closer to whatever you're shooting, but
Speaker 2: because it allows you to play with the depth field
Speaker 2: and the perceived depth of the background in photos. So
Speaker 2: you zoom in and not only do you make the
Speaker 2: things bigger in your photo, but because the angle of
Speaker 2: your shot decreases, it really pulls the background in closer,
Speaker 2: so you can get closer to what it actually looks
Speaker 2: like to your eyes standing there when you have that capability.
Speaker 2: But because most smartphones only have a digital zoom function,
Speaker 2: which is worse than workless, I've never recommend using that feature.
Speaker 2: It's harder to mimic that real life viewpoint that you
Speaker 2: can do with a camera that have more capability.
Speaker 1: So partly enough, this Rob has a question. You know,
Speaker 1: he he loves the setting sun a you know, he thinks,
Speaker 1: you know, it's difficult to get the right you know,
Speaker 1: capture of it. So what what are your tricks for? Uh?
Speaker 1: You know those pictures the last hour of sunlight.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and some of those pictures are are the best
Speaker 2: pictures to take, but they are tricky. So that's a
Speaker 2: really good question from Rob. There are a couple of
Speaker 2: ways to go about it. If we're talking smartphone. For
Speaker 2: the HDR function is a really good function when you're
Speaker 2: shooting into the setting sun. Otherwise, what you'll end up
Speaker 2: with a lot of times is you know you can
Speaker 2: you can you can expose your shot for the sky
Speaker 2: and you'll get a really beautiful sunset, but the golf
Speaker 2: hole will be black, just be shadowed out. Or you
Speaker 2: can expose for the golf hole and it will come
Speaker 2: up nice, but this beautiful sunset that your eyeballs will
Speaker 2: be completely whited out and overexposed. So the HDR function
Speaker 2: sort of merges those two things together and you end
Speaker 2: up with a photo that hopefully is at least close
Speaker 2: to properly exposed both for the light and the dark.
Speaker 2: The process for the camera is very similar to that.
Speaker 2: By the way, you can also create the HDR photos
Speaker 2: after the fact that software, but for the most part,
Speaker 2: the apps and the camera features that cameras have nowadays
Speaker 2: you usually make that process unnecessary. But it's possible. But
Speaker 2: that's I guess a little more advantable for us, you
Speaker 2: know than us lowly golf courses aerever we really need
Speaker 2: to know about. I don't do it as you're shooting
Speaker 2: with a real camera, and this goes for not only
Speaker 2: setting sunshots, but all shots. You want to make sure
Speaker 2: that your camera is set up the way it needs
Speaker 2: to be and properly for the shot that you're trying
Speaker 2: to take. People ask me all the time, what camera
Speaker 2: should I buy for taking golfposed? And there are plenty
Speaker 2: of answers that we'll get somebody a wonderful camera for
Speaker 2: got photos. The thing I always tell them is whatever
Speaker 2: camera you get, to make sure you learn how to
Speaker 2: use it. People expect to a lot of times people
Speaker 2: to pop them out of the box. It's like a
Speaker 2: smartphone camera and immediately rip off these great photos. But
Speaker 2: you really just need to learn how to use the
Speaker 2: camera and how to set it up properly for the
Speaker 2: different shops that you're going to encounter. And to Rob's point,
Speaker 2: I have a memory slot on my camera set up
Speaker 2: for exactly the kind of shot that he's talking about,
Speaker 2: so that when I end up on a hold that
Speaker 2: the sun is setting behind and we have this beautiful
Speaker 2: scene in front of us, rather than having to tinkle
Speaker 2: with everything and set the camera up the way it
Speaker 2: needs to be set up to get a good photo,
Speaker 2: I can just click a button and be ready to go.
Speaker 2: You can use HDR modes in camera after this act
Speaker 2: with regular cameras too, I think they tend to be
Speaker 2: much more natural looking than a lot of the cell
Speaker 2: phone cameras will look when using that mode, So that
Speaker 2: is a good way to do it. And then the
Speaker 2: probably the most useful way to get really good shot
Speaker 2: into the setting sun is with editing after the fact
Speaker 2: of post processing. We haven't really talked about that because
Speaker 2: it's something that I absolutely despise doing. I hate editing
Speaker 2: my photo deck to the fact it takes so much
Speaker 2: time and it's it's not all that fun for me.
Speaker 2: I like shooting the photos, but I hate playing with them,
Speaker 2: so I avoid it. I also don't use a computer
Speaker 2: of my workflows from camera to iPad to wherever I'm
Speaker 2: sharing the photos, so I'm limited in what software I've
Speaker 2: access to. And I also shoot Jpeggett the post to walk.
Speaker 2: But if you are really looking to get some great
Speaker 2: photos of the setting sun into the setting song on
Speaker 2: golf course, I guess my recommendation would be shoot with
Speaker 2: a real camera, shoot with the highest dynamic range your
Speaker 2: camera will allow you to shoot with and ideally shoot
Speaker 2: in raw mode so that after the fact you can
Speaker 2: tinker with the photo to the maximum extent possible and
Speaker 2: darken up the the overexposed areas and brighten up the
Speaker 2: under exposed areas, and hopefully end up with a balanced
Speaker 2: photo that you that you're happy with. Like I said,
Speaker 2: there are a lot of ways to go about it.
Speaker 2: None of them is right or wrong or any better
Speaker 2: than the other, but it's it's it's a tricky photo
Speaker 2: to get right, and an easy photo to to capture
Speaker 2: an overblown cartoonish image on or one that's just simply unusable.
Speaker 2: So those are the methods that I use, and I've
Speaker 2: had some success, but I've also had some failures. I mean,
Speaker 2: sometimes no matter how hard you try, no matter how
Speaker 2: well you set up the camera, and no matter how
Speaker 2: hard you push it in editing after the fact, it
Speaker 2: just doesn't come out. And that's kind of the nature
Speaker 2: of the trinal error.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I think everybody's been there, just you know,
Speaker 1: frustrated with it. You know, you see something that's just
Speaker 1: absolutely epic and there's just no way to get it
Speaker 1: feel like, you know, you're in the moment again, I.
Speaker 2: Completely agree, And by the way, on that point, that's
Speaker 2: another you bring up a great point there.
Speaker 4: If you are standing there looking at that epic moment
Speaker 4: and you really want to capture it, don't you shoot
Speaker 4: one photo, fire off a bunch, change your settings a
Speaker 4: little bit, try something you ever tried before when you
Speaker 4: were dealing with digital cameras. Here, there's really no such
Speaker 4: thing as having too many photos. It's much better to
Speaker 4: get home with twenty photos of this epic shot you
Speaker 4: thought you had and have.
Speaker 2: Nineteen of them be worthless but one be usable, than
Speaker 2: to take one thing you thought it was set up perfectly,
Speaker 2: realize you didn't account for something, and get home and
Speaker 2: have a totally worthless, one shot image of this amazing scene.
Speaker 2: So take multiple you get multiple cracks, bet it with
Speaker 2: the digital camera, use them.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So let's Eric Bens has a good question here.
Speaker 1: I think this is a great one. I think, you know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of golf travel people that tend to
Speaker 1: focus on, you know, the high end resource and everything,
Speaker 1: but like you know, a lot of the great courses
Speaker 1: are these hidden gems and you know, public courses that
Speaker 1: are under one hundred bucks to play that you know
Speaker 1: you love. So what are some of your favorite, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, courses in across the country that are public
Speaker 1: and under one hundred bucks, and I'll give some of
Speaker 1: mine too.
Speaker 2: Great question. I don't know if it counts or the cheating,
Speaker 2: but I think the absolute best value in golf is
Speaker 2: the replay rate at Bandon Dunes. If you go at
Speaker 2: the right time year, you can play thirty six holes
Speaker 2: of golf there and the second round is going to
Speaker 2: cost you something in the order of seventy five dollars.
Speaker 2: I think the first round might be one twenty five.
Speaker 2: There is no better value, in my opinion, in public
Speaker 2: golf than that deal. I don't know. I've never been
Speaker 2: to Abandoned in the summer. I know the rates go
Speaker 2: up a little, but certainly in spring, and I believe
Speaker 2: in fall you can go out there and get those rates.
Speaker 2: And I just don't think you can possibly find a
Speaker 2: better deal in golf. And that goes for a lot
Speaker 2: of high end resort courses. I mean, it doesn't necessarily
Speaker 2: apply at places like Whistling Straits, which is expensive, or Pinehurst,
Speaker 2: but I will tell you that a place like Kiowa Island,
Speaker 2: the Ocean Course, which is one of the first great
Speaker 2: courses I ever played in the place that I try
Speaker 2: to play every year when I go down to Kiowa.
Speaker 2: If you play the Ocean course in December on a
Speaker 2: weekday after something like one o'clock, it's seventy bucks and
Speaker 2: carry your own bag. You don't have to worry about
Speaker 2: a caddy. That's a great deal. So a lot of
Speaker 2: the resource courses, if you are careful about what time
Speaker 2: you're able to play in the day and what time
Speaker 2: of year, you can get some really great deals. And
Speaker 2: I do that all the time. I love a good
Speaker 2: deal as much as anybody, and that's a great way
Speaker 2: to get some. In Philadelphia, there's a lot of really classic,
Speaker 2: great courses that can be had very cheaply. Lulu country
Speaker 2: Club is a place that around here that just went
Speaker 2: semi private. Used to be a private country club and
Speaker 2: now it's open to the public during certain days and times.
Speaker 2: I've played there earlier in the late in the fall,
Speaker 2: I guess at the end of November, and I think
Speaker 2: it cost me fifty dollars. And this is a wonderful, quirky,
Speaker 2: well preserved, decently conditioned, total loss gem that anybody who
Speaker 2: is into architecture would absolutely adore. And it's really cheap
Speaker 2: for what you're seeing.
Speaker 1: My uncle was my uncle is the head pro out
Speaker 1: there for about thirty years. So I love Louis. Yeah, great,
Speaker 1: great golf course.
Speaker 2: It's terrific, right, I mean, you don't get you don't
Speaker 2: get those kind of courses anymore because they've always been
Speaker 2: altered or updated or modernized. And here's a ross where
Speaker 2: the club was perfectly contend with it and just sat
Speaker 2: on it for eighty or ninety years and it exists
Speaker 2: now almost in the same state that it didn'ts we
Speaker 2: lost building.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's from what I've been able to
Speaker 1: tell on Twitter, They're they're putting a lot of money
Speaker 1: in a good, good new ownership. So that's the place
Speaker 1: that should just get better with time.
Speaker 2: Couldn't agree more. And then as far as the rest
Speaker 2: of the question, it's really it's just a matter of
Speaker 2: being willing, at least in my opinion, to go off
Speaker 2: the beaten path a little bit, your high end resource
Speaker 2: where the demand is high and people with disposed will
Speaker 2: incomers staying there are going to cost more money naturally.
Speaker 2: You know, there's a reason why Peddle Beach can keep
Speaker 2: its screens fee at five hundred and fifty bucks or
Speaker 2: whatever they're getting these days. They charge it because people
Speaker 2: will pay it. But the further away you go from
Speaker 2: the major cities, the further away you go from the
Speaker 2: high end resorts, the better your chances are of getting
Speaker 2: a great deal on a terrific public golf course for
Speaker 2: less than hundred bucks. And there are a ton of
Speaker 2: them out there. One that I played this year was
Speaker 2: out on Cape cod called Highland Links. Another nine holer
Speaker 2: that we talked about earlier, full rescue everywhere. This place
Speaker 2: hasn't been touched since they originally laid it on the
Speaker 2: ground back in I want to say something like nineteen twenty.
Speaker 2: And it's terrific. You can tire your own bag there
Speaker 2: all day long, play wonderful golf and it'll cost you
Speaker 2: thirty five bucks or something like that. It's an amazing place.
Speaker 2: These kind of courses are around, and frankly, there's usually
Speaker 2: at least one of them in or near every major
Speaker 2: city in the country. You just have to be willing
Speaker 2: to look a little deeper and do a little more
Speaker 2: research to be able to find what's out there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think a good practice is to well one
Speaker 1: architect in particular, You can usually find Donald Ross courses everywhere.
Speaker 1: He designed four hundred and twenty five of them. So
Speaker 1: there are The Donald Ross Society has a full listing,
Speaker 1: but a lot of them are public, I find. You know,
Speaker 1: that's usually a pretty good bet if you're looking for
Speaker 1: a course with good bones. They aren't always in the
Speaker 1: greatest shape, but the bones are there. They're fun.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: A good example of that in Chicago there's a course
Speaker 1: called Ravslow Country Club. It's on the south side of
Speaker 1: the city. It's an old country club. This now public.
Speaker 1: That's a great golf course to play a one up
Speaker 1: and you know, this is an awesome trip. And John,
Speaker 1: this is this one should be very high on your
Speaker 1: radar is Sand Valley. But right forty five minutes from
Speaker 1: Sand Valley is a place called Lisnia and it's designed
Speaker 1: by Lankford Morreau. It's probably one of the best golf
Speaker 1: courses in all of the Midwest. Probably I would say
Speaker 1: top thirty golf course in the entire Midwest. And it
Speaker 1: is I think, I want to say, like ninety bucks
Speaker 1: to play, and the replay rate is around thirty. So
Speaker 1: that place, I mean, you could play there all all
Speaker 1: the time. And then you know, forty five minutes away
Speaker 1: you also have Sand Valley where they're building these courses.
Speaker 1: That's gonna be a little bit more expensive, but you know,
Speaker 1: in that hour area you have four world class golf
Speaker 1: horses now with the new David kid design. A couple others.
Speaker 1: I like a bell View at Biltmore which is down
Speaker 1: in like the Tampa area. It's a cool little Donald
Speaker 1: Ross public course. You know, Sweet and Scove, which we
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier. Uh, there's a bunch you know that's that's
Speaker 1: a whole blog post in itself. Best best values in golf.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I'll tell you I I've heard nothing but
Speaker 2: good things about Lasonia. I'd love to to see that
Speaker 2: place sometime soon. When I was in Chicago in early November,
Speaker 2: I actually I didn't have a chance to play it
Speaker 2: in a time, but I actually drove into Ravaslow, got out,
Speaker 2: walked around a little bit that place. Wills cred that
Speaker 2: that is a course that is absolutely on my list
Speaker 2: for my next trip Chicago. That's a great example in
Speaker 2: the filiary again, since that's my neck of the woods.
Speaker 2: A great place to head for relatively low cost public
Speaker 2: golf is the Atlantic City Shore area. Atlantic City Country
Speaker 2: Club is a dynamite course. Saturday morning during the summer,
Speaker 2: they're probably getting easily into the three figures. But again,
Speaker 2: if you're willing to play it in the afternoon on
Speaker 2: a random Tuesday, you can get an afternoon rate for
Speaker 2: for well under one hundred dollars. There's a Twisted Dune
Speaker 2: is a really enjoyable course down there. Same thing. So
Speaker 2: as long as you're flexible with with your schedule and
Speaker 2: when you're willing to play there, there are certainly good
Speaker 2: deals out there that you have cool.
Speaker 1: So you know, I want to be conscious of your time.
Speaker 1: It's very late now on the East Coast. Before we
Speaker 1: get you out of here, I'm just gonna hit you
Speaker 1: with some quick hinder questions. All right, favorite architect, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a favorite architect.
Speaker 2: Favorite architects Seev McDonald and.
Speaker 1: Definitely Okay, if you had to play one golf course
Speaker 1: the rest of your life, which course would it be?
Speaker 2: National Golf Wins.
Speaker 1: All right, that's a good That's number one on my
Speaker 1: list of places to go see. So with that, what
Speaker 1: are the three courses you're most excited to see in
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2: Cypress Point Is is definitely the top on that list.
Speaker 2: I think I want to throw pine Valley in there,
Speaker 2: but I'm not really sure about that given the unfortunate
Speaker 2: history that I've had with it. So let's let's, you know,
Speaker 2: let's leak that one out for now. We'll say Cypress Point,
Speaker 2: will say sand Hills will say.
Speaker 1: Come on, Okay. Those are three strong choices, and then
Speaker 1: we'll go with what was the place that blew your
Speaker 1: socks off most and twenty six meaning that I had,
Speaker 1: you know, you didn't have any expectations going in and
Speaker 1: you walked out of there like wow.
Speaker 2: That would either be Glenn's Falls up in New York,
Speaker 2: Orchard Lake outside of Detroit, which absolutely blew me away.
Speaker 2: Or I don't cheating by giving you multiple answers here,
Speaker 2: but or it would be Black Sheep outside of Chicago,
Speaker 2: which I played. I actually stumbled out that way because
Speaker 2: I had a little extra time after a morning round
Speaker 2: and I had a choice to either go back to
Speaker 2: the conference that I was out there for or go
Speaker 2: see Black Sheep. Figured what the heck went out played
Speaker 2: Black Sheep played all twenty seven holes one afternoon in
Speaker 2: high winds, and absolutely loved the place. I thought it
Speaker 2: was just incredibly fun modern dame man.
Speaker 1: That's what I haven't gotten out there, and I'm kind
Speaker 1: of jealous now.
Speaker 2: Of nowhere. Like I said, it was not on my
Speaker 2: list of places to see. It was not something I
Speaker 2: was planning to do. It was literally a spur of
Speaker 2: the moment decision, and man, what a good decision. Really
Speaker 2: knock my focks off is a perfect description. I had
Speaker 2: a blast. It's just it's golf like it's supposed to
Speaker 2: be fun. Uh, you know, deep features you don't see
Speaker 2: anywhere else. Very unique design, especially given the property they had. Uh,
Speaker 2: just fantastic in every way. Great.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The architect there, David Esler, might be one of the
Speaker 1: best modern architects that nobody knows about.
Speaker 2: I agree. I didn't know about him until I saw
Speaker 2: a black sheet, but he is certainly a guy who
Speaker 2: I look for now.
Speaker 1: He did all the bunkering at Ravslow too. He did
Speaker 1: a restoration there.
Speaker 2: He did a restoration at the Olympia Fields, didn't he he?
Speaker 1: I know he did glen View Club. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: about Olympia Field Eld. But he did glen View Club,
Speaker 1: which is a flynn up in on the North Shore.
Speaker 1: And I want to say he did Skokie too. I'm
Speaker 1: not positive about it, but he did, he has he
Speaker 1: has a couple of good projects. I mean that, and
Speaker 1: I've heard great things about Black Sheep. So and then uh,
Speaker 1: all right, last question. It's a it's a tough one.
Speaker 1: Best golf city or metro area golf metro area in America.
Speaker 1: So the way we're going to define this is you
Speaker 1: have within an hour driving of the city center.
Speaker 2: Great question, and I like the way you defined it
Speaker 2: because that definition can really alter the reasoning here. So
Speaker 2: anyway within an our of the metro center, to me,
Speaker 2: it's it comes down to uh, Philly, New York, Boston, Chicago,
Speaker 2: l and San Francisco. Those are the six contenders, right.
Speaker 2: I think you probably have to eliminate San fran as
Speaker 2: good as the golf out there is, because an hour
Speaker 2: doesn't get you all the way down to Monterey. You know,
Speaker 2: you capture Hastiefo there. But there are a lot of
Speaker 2: great courses within that hour, but I don't think it
Speaker 2: quite matches up to the others. Same thing with La.
Speaker 2: As great as the high end courses are in LA,
Speaker 2: some of the ones that I really like are outside
Speaker 2: that hour radius. So you just sheer numbers game. You
Speaker 2: just don't have enough super high end courses for LA
Speaker 2: to be in the conversation. So with your definition of mind,
Speaker 2: I think it's a really close fight between Boston, Chicago,
Speaker 2: and Philly. And because I can't really make the decision
Speaker 2: between those three, I'll go with Philly just because it's
Speaker 2: my hometown. The manager a lot of great courses within
Speaker 2: an hour downtown Chicago, and I'll say a Boston. I mean,
Speaker 2: you got myopiat Essex, Salem, It Hans, It, the two moderns,
Speaker 2: a Old Sandwich, and Boston Golf Club, and you got
Speaker 2: all the way out on the cape that I think
Speaker 2: you're reaching an hour place like Eastward Hoe. You got Whiteonville.
Speaker 2: You know a sport. It's amazing how many great golf
Speaker 2: we're star balls. But I literally Boston because you're playing
Speaker 2: seasons shorter. So in the end, it's Philly wrote to Chicago.
Speaker 2: I'm a Philly guy. I know you're a Chicago guy,
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna go with Philly. I'm pretty sure you're
Speaker 2: gonna say Chicago.
Speaker 1: Somebody I went out. I went out to Philly. I
Speaker 1: had two golf trips out there, and a Philly's at
Speaker 1: Philly in my mind takes the cake. I Uh, it's
Speaker 1: the depth at Philly is just so much stronger than
Speaker 1: I think Chicago. Like a perfect example is White Marsh Valley,
Speaker 1: you know, like like that that. I mean, Chicago's really
Speaker 1: good though, and New York's eliminated because Long Island is
Speaker 1: too far from the city center, so exactly.
Speaker 2: And look, there's still a boatload of great golf within
Speaker 2: an hour of downtown New York. But I just without
Speaker 2: those those Southampton courses and the courses further out on
Speaker 2: Long Island, you just you know, it's close. But if
Speaker 2: if you think those away from New York again, I
Speaker 2: just don't think it can compete on depth Philly. At
Speaker 2: the high end, obviously we have. You got Marrion, Pine Valley,
Speaker 2: Iron and Ink Gulf Mills. The high end is here.
Speaker 1: Is really really Philly Cricket.
Speaker 2: Philly Cricket is another great one.
Speaker 1: How is there are there fifty courses better than Philly
Speaker 1: Cricket Club. I'm sorry you are there fifty courses in
Speaker 1: America that are better than Philly Cricket Club?
Speaker 2: If you're asking me that question, I'd be hard pressed
Speaker 2: to give you fifty, especially now the Foster restoration is done.
Speaker 2: Philly Cricket Club is a phenomenal golf course now, and
Speaker 2: I'm a big killing ass fan, and what Foster did
Speaker 2: there to bring that killing hands back out of that
Speaker 2: golf course is just tremendous. That that place is absolutely
Speaker 2: outstanding right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's when I realized how good Philly
Speaker 1: golf was was when, of course I played that, I
Speaker 1: barely you know, I had heard about it from you know,
Speaker 1: the senior event and the club pro event out there.
Speaker 1: But then I get out there and I'm trying to think.
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, if this is in Chicago, it's
Speaker 1: it's probably top three golf course in Chicago, and here,
Speaker 1: you know, they have it between you know, five and seven.
Speaker 1: That being said, rankings are a load of crap since
Speaker 1: short Akers is ranked the number seven course in Chicago
Speaker 1: and yeah.
Speaker 2: Which is really all you need to know about the
Speaker 2: ranking systems, because that's about as crazy as it gets.
Speaker 2: Shore Acres is one of my favorite places on earth.
Speaker 1: There's there's there's not a place that I've found better.
Speaker 1: So it's, uh, we'll see this summer. After this summer,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna play a lot of great courses, but we'll
Speaker 1: see if it still stands up. But there's not many
Speaker 1: places that there's a better, you know, three and a
Speaker 1: half hour walk around than short acres in the world.
Speaker 2: I could not agree with you more. That place is
Speaker 2: just lovely in every respect.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, John, really appreciate the time, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, for those of you that don't know, it's
Speaker 1: it's almost midnight recording this in in Philly, so he's
Speaker 1: staying up late for us. I'll I appreciate the time,
Speaker 1: and I'll link John's Twitter and Instagram handles in the
Speaker 1: podcast posts so you guys can go on and follow
Speaker 1: him if you don't already. Thanks a lot, John, now
Speaker 1: any thank you.
Speaker 2: I appreciate it. And I always love talking golf with
Speaker 2: a fellow golf month, So anytime,