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Speaker 1: All right, we're back for another episode of the Friday Podcast.

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Speaker 1: This week, we are talking with John Cavalier. He is

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Speaker 1: the famed Twitter and Instagram account linked gems. Many of

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Speaker 1: you probably already follow him on Twitter. If you don't,

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Speaker 1: definitely recommend checking him out. He takes spectacular photos of

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Speaker 1: golf courses and is a self proclaimed golf junkie. So

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Speaker 1: we're gonna talk golf photography, golf course architecture, and you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of golf courses tonight. So John, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for coming on.

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Speaker 2: Andy might play. You're a big fan. Thank you for

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Speaker 2: having me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I think you know the

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Speaker 1: thing that everybody would love to know is you know

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Speaker 1: a little bit about the man behind links gems.

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Speaker 2: I'll give you as as best I can. So I'm

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Speaker 2: a full time lawyer that that career tempt to pay

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Speaker 2: the bills. I'm based out of Philly. I worked for

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Speaker 2: a rather large law firm doing labor and employment work,

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Speaker 2: litigation and trial work, which is interesting and keeps the

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Speaker 2: lights on at home and on the side, obviously, I

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Speaker 2: play a lot of golf. I'm based out of Philly,

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Speaker 2: so I like to get back and check in on

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Speaker 2: the courses in my hometown and the surrounding areas, But

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Speaker 2: I also travel a lot boks will working for fun

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Speaker 2: and when I do, I I certainly like to see

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Speaker 2: the golf that other areas of the country. That's offer.

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Speaker 2: But I really summed it up. I'm born and raised

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Speaker 2: in Philly. That's that's leaks shams in a nutshell.

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Speaker 1: So tell us a little bit about how you got

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Speaker 1: into golf and when when did you just when did

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Speaker 1: you start taking pictures? Were you always into photography or

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Speaker 1: was it something that it kind of came later in life?

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Speaker 2: You know, that's an interesting question. Both the golf and

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Speaker 2: the photography came rather late, at least later than most people.

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Speaker 2: I guess. I didn't play golf until late in college.

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Speaker 2: I had never played the game growing up. For handicapper,

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Speaker 2: I certainly wish that I'd started earlier now, but such

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Speaker 2: as life. The first round of golf I ever played

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Speaker 2: was a round that was set up by my father's

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Speaker 2: boss at a course near here called Heartfelt National. They

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Speaker 2: had the guy drop out and we're desperately scrambling to

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Speaker 2: fill out the forsome so they asked me if I

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Speaker 2: wanted to tag along and play and you know, growing up,

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Speaker 2: I was always a baseball, football, basketball kind of guy,

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Speaker 2: you know, the core sports, and considering myself, you know,

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Speaker 2: I want to be athlete in the regular sports, so

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Speaker 2: to speak. And frankly, it always kind of looked down

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Speaker 2: at golf as both a recreational thing and a professional thing.

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Speaker 2: I never watched it on TV, never really got into it.

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Speaker 2: So I sort of begrudgingly agreed to go tag along

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Speaker 2: with these guys and see what gos was all about,

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Speaker 2: thinking both that I would be bored out of my

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Speaker 2: mind and that it would be the easiest sports that

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Speaker 2: I'd ever played. And obviously I was wrong on both counts.

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Speaker 2: Shot one hundred and twenty six. Still remember that very clearly,

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Speaker 2: and was absolutely hooked from the very first home. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you hear people talk about with the golf bug. It

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Speaker 2: bit me, and it bit me hard. From that point on,

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Speaker 2: I think since then, I have been playing as much

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Speaker 2: as I humanly possibly can, getting out constantly, and it's

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Speaker 2: been great because it's given my father and I have

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Speaker 2: a common ground and a common thing to do together,

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Speaker 2: which is obviously a big benefit that I think a

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Speaker 2: lot of people share in the game of golf. So

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Speaker 2: that started me off. And now, since I guess I'm

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Speaker 2: getting older here, that was about fifteen years ago and

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Speaker 2: I've been ever since. The photography came much much later,

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Speaker 2: at least as it relates to golf. I've always been

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Speaker 2: somewhat interested in photography. I mean, I've never never taken

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Speaker 2: classes or done anything, you know, official with respect to photography,

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Speaker 2: but there's always be something that it's been an interest

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Speaker 2: of mine I casually pursue. I mean, I've always owned

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Speaker 2: a camera. I take it with me on vacations, annoying

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Speaker 2: my wife, you know, things like that. But the two

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Speaker 2: had two didn't really combined seriously until about three four

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Speaker 2: years ago, when, for whatever reason, I happened to have

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Speaker 2: a camera with me when I was going to play

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Speaker 2: a particular golf course. I don't even remember which one

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Speaker 2: it was, but I took some pictures while I was there.

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Speaker 2: They came out fairly well, so I posted them online

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Speaker 2: and got a nice response. And even more than that,

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Speaker 2: I realized that taking the photos and having them actually

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Speaker 2: heightened my enjoyment of the round and help me to

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Speaker 2: experience the joy of playing a really nice new golf course.

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Speaker 2: Over a longer period of time. So it's nice to

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Speaker 2: have to go back and sort of relive some of

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Speaker 2: the course and look at the photos and see things

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Speaker 2: that I might have missed. And it also makes the

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Speaker 2: round itself a little more enjoyable because I'm looking for

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Speaker 2: certain things while I play and shoot that I might

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Speaker 2: not otherwise be looking for or care about, depending on

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Speaker 2: how on or off my actual golf game is on

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Speaker 2: a given day. You know, if you if you're playing

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Speaker 2: well and hitting it down the middle, you have a

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Speaker 2: tendency to ignore a lot of the course that you

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Speaker 2: might otherwise see. So in an event four or five

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Speaker 2: years ago through four years ago, I started taking some

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Speaker 2: photos here and there, and since then it's it's the

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Speaker 2: response to the photos I've taken and to sharing them

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Speaker 2: online and on various websites have been extraordinarily positive, which

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Speaker 2: is certainly in encouragement to keep it going. So I've

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Speaker 2: been doing it since then and that I've really been

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Speaker 2: getting a kick out of it since it's been nice.

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Speaker 1: So so with the photos, I mean, you know, you

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Speaker 1: started and you're you're an average joe like all of us,

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Speaker 1: and you know what are like some of the Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so what you know, obviously where what the pictures you

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Speaker 1: post now, you know, for somebody, even for me, I

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Speaker 1: take pictures around a golf course. I'm colorblind, I'm kind

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Speaker 1: of an idiot, so I'm not I'm not good at

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Speaker 1: taking pictures. You know, some things I've picked up our elevation,

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Speaker 1: you know, I watched for a light. But I don't

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Speaker 1: really know what I'm doing. But what are some like

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Speaker 1: really easy things that you did that you saw drastic

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Speaker 1: jumps with your you know, abilities of taking pictures.

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Speaker 2: That's actually another really good question. The first thing I

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Speaker 2: will tell you is that the practice is invaluable. Especially

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Speaker 2: when I was just kicking this all, I would shoot

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Speaker 2: a ton of photos than I still do. And after

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Speaker 2: the fact, when you review them, you see what works

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Speaker 2: better than other things, what photos came out nicer than others,

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Speaker 2: and you start to realize some commonalities between them, and

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Speaker 2: you learn why certain photos look better than others and

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Speaker 2: why some come out looking like crap. And even now

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Speaker 2: I probably throw half of the photos that I take

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Speaker 2: on a given day in the virtual trash can, so

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Speaker 2: to speak, because they didn't come out well for one

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Speaker 2: reason or another. So it's definitely a learning process, and

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Speaker 2: practice is obviously a key point of that learning process.

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Speaker 3: Beyond that, it's you know, photography is really just all

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Speaker 3: about capturing the lights in the right way. So once

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Speaker 3: you learn how light interacts with whatever camera you're using,

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Speaker 3: it goes a.

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Speaker 2: Long way towards understanding why certain photos look nice and

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Speaker 2: others don't. And unfortunately, to the extent we're outdoors, we

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Speaker 2: don't really have control over the light. So there are

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Speaker 2: going to be days where the light is bad and

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Speaker 2: you're going to come home with an entire role of

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Speaker 2: pretty mediocre photos. There's other days where it's perfect and

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Speaker 2: you can't possibly take a bad shot. So some of

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Speaker 2: it is out of your hands. With respect to taking

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Speaker 2: pictures of certain things that you can you can look

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Speaker 2: back on and determine whether you like or not. I

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Speaker 2: like to experiment with different angles and different perspectives that

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Speaker 2: you don't usually see most people you see online, they

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Speaker 2: stand on the t box, they take a photo. They

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Speaker 2: stand in the middle of the fairway, they take a

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Speaker 2: photo of the green. Maybe they get up closer to

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Speaker 2: the green and they take a picture. It's sort of one, two,

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Speaker 2: three in a row of the natural progression of a

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Speaker 2: golf hole. The biggest thing I would recommend as part

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Speaker 2: of the practice is just to get off the straight

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Speaker 2: line path and do some things that are different. Shoot

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Speaker 2: from behind the green with the pin in the center

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Speaker 2: of the frame, looking back up the fairway. Shoot from

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Speaker 2: inside of a bunker, get down low and shoot the

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Speaker 2: green surface. You can see how the green rolls and moves.

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Speaker 2: Shoot at different times a day. Obviously, the best time

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Speaker 2: of day I think to shoot is in the hour

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Speaker 2: or so before sunset, but dawn is a wonderful time.

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Speaker 2: Depending on how the clouds look at a given day,

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Speaker 2: you can get out there in the brightest part of

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Speaker 2: the afternoon and get some really neat shots. But the

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Speaker 2: point is you really need to learn what works for

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Speaker 2: your own eye, and the only way to do that,

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Speaker 2: at least in my in my sphere of knowledge here,

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Speaker 2: is to shoot a ton of photos. Shoot as many

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Speaker 2: as you can, as often as you can, in as

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Speaker 2: many different conditions as you can, and sooner or little

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Speaker 2: you will learn what you like and what the people

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Speaker 2: you share your photos with like, and it becomes easier

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Speaker 2: over time. I generally know now as soon as I

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Speaker 2: step on the first tea, if I have my camera

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Speaker 2: with me, whether it's going to be a good day

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Speaker 2: for photos or whether they're going to come out looking

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Speaker 2: like prep And that just comes with shooting a ton

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Speaker 2: of photos over time.

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Speaker 1: So do you carry like when you say you're you're

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Speaker 1: going out to play, do you carry like a is

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Speaker 1: it a bigger camera or is it a smaller one?

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Speaker 1: Or do you use your phone a lot of times?

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Speaker 1: You know, if you're if you're playing with save four

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Speaker 1: buddies or three buddies.

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Speaker 2: So it depends where I'm playing. If I'm heading down

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Speaker 2: to the club to play around, or I'm going to

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Speaker 2: a course that I've played a hundred times or that

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Speaker 2: I already have photos of, I'll usually just carry my phone.

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Speaker 2: But if I'm going to a place where I know

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Speaker 2: I'm going to want to take photos, especially if it's

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Speaker 2: a new course that I've ever played, or if it's

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Speaker 2: a course that I know is going to lend itself

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Speaker 2: really well to photos, I'll bring my camera. And I

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Speaker 2: usually do try to bring my camera to to most

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Speaker 2: of the places that I go. I don't shoot with

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Speaker 2: a big camera. I don't shoot with the DSLR I

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Speaker 2: have one, but I shoot the majority of my photos

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Speaker 2: while i'm playing. Uh, And you obviously can't carry a

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Speaker 2: around the next DSLR when you're playing around to go,

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Speaker 2: So I shoot with a with a Sony Mark five

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Speaker 2: DSc one hundred, which is a very small point and

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Speaker 2: shoot camera that fits in your pocket. You can stick

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Speaker 2: it in your pot, your pants pocket, or your shirt

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Speaker 2: pocket while you're playing and easily play around the golf

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Speaker 2: without bothering you. And it takes terrific photos. Uh. It's

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Speaker 2: the camera that I recommend to everyone. It's not the

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Speaker 2: cheapest camera you're ever going to see for point and shoot,

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Speaker 2: but it is absolutely tremendous for golf photos and pro

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Speaker 2: photos of of whatever you want to shoot. It's really terrific.

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Speaker 2: There are I guess a few occasions where i'll i'll,

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Speaker 2: and I could probably count them on one hand over

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Speaker 2: the last five years where I've shot golf with with

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Speaker 2: the big dfl R. I don't think it makes much

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Speaker 2: of a difference. You know, somebody hired me to go

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Speaker 2: to their golf course to shoot photos. That's probably the

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Speaker 2: camera that I've used, just because it gives me maximum

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Speaker 2: flexibility both with the camera and in terms of editing

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Speaker 2: the shots afterwards. But they're all playing around the golf

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Speaker 2: and you know, I'm not I'm not lugging that thing

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Speaker 2: around with me and I'm not going back out after

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Speaker 2: the round. I shoot ninety five percent of my photos

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Speaker 2: while I'm playing golf.

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Speaker 1: I think that's the way to do it. It's like a

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Speaker 1: I've noticed, you know, I'm trying to up my game

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Speaker 1: with camp with the pictures, but I've noticed that the

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Speaker 1: first round where I started taking lots of pictures and

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Speaker 1: trying to play with buddies, it was it was so hard.

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Speaker 1: You know, You're like, you're you're running around the golf.

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Speaker 1: I felt like I walked to eighteen's, you know, and

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Speaker 1: my buddies were, you know, out running ahead of me,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, slow down.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: It's a It took a little time, but now I

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Speaker 1: feel like once you get used to it, you've become

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Speaker 1: like a pro and you're kind of out ahead of

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Speaker 1: everybody absolutely.

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Speaker 2: And that's another thing that practice will help with. The

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Speaker 2: more you do it, the more natural whole process seems in,

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Speaker 2: the easier it comes. One of the things that when

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Speaker 2: I'm doing this, my my number one cardinal rule when

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Speaker 2: I'm out shooting golf is don't slow the group down

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Speaker 2: and don't annoy the people that I am playing with.

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Speaker 2: So I'm a very fast golfer anyway. I know everybody

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Speaker 2: says that, but I play golf to the point that

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Speaker 2: it's probably hurting my game. I play so quick. I

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Speaker 2: just don't have much chalance for slow golf. It's actually,

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Speaker 2: you know, sort of a pet peeve of mine. So

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Speaker 2: I've been getting used to doing this. It's very easy

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Speaker 2: for me to both hit my ball and take photos

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Speaker 2: and still easily keep up with most people that I

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Speaker 2: play with. You if you find yourself slowing down your group,

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Speaker 2: not only are you going to take photos that probably

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Speaker 2: don't live up to your own expectations, but you're going

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Speaker 2: to play poor golf. And to me, that sort of

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Speaker 2: defeats the purpose. I mean, I'm out there, first and

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Speaker 2: foremost to play an enjoyable around the golf with the

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Speaker 2: people that I'm with. If taking photos is cutting into that,

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Speaker 2: I stop taking the photos. I mean, it's important to

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Speaker 2: keep your priority straight. I mean, really is about the golf,

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Speaker 2: not necessarily about the photos. So if the photos, I

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Speaker 2: guess what I'm trying to say. The photos are very

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Speaker 2: much a by product of around the golf. They're not

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Speaker 2: the primary reason of there, So I try very hard

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Speaker 2: to make sure that that perspective remained complaint.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think it's a good one to keep.

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Speaker 1: It's so, we got a ton of great questions in

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Speaker 1: from Twitter, and I wanted to make this one a

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Speaker 1: little different where we kind of just go through the

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Speaker 1: questions and let that kind of guide the conversation and

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Speaker 1: we can get on tangents, you know, galore from these questions.

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Speaker 1: So the first one is from Kyle and he just

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Speaker 1: wants to know, and I saw somebody seconded this, how

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Speaker 1: on earth are you able to see and play so

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Speaker 1: many great courses?

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Speaker 2: So that's obviously a good question, and I'll answer it

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Speaker 2: this way. Unfortunate in that I have have a good

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Speaker 2: job that involves travel, I have no children, and I

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Speaker 2: have an extraordinarily tolerant wife. So that is really, I

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Speaker 2: think the sort of a key to being able to

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Speaker 2: to travel around and see different golf courses in different places.

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Speaker 2: You know, when you're not worrying about you're gonna put

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Speaker 2: your kid through school, or you know your wife is

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Speaker 2: not in your ear constantly about taking her to somewhere

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Speaker 2: to a vacation, it's a lot easier to go see

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Speaker 2: these courses, and then as far as sort of the

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Speaker 2: second part of that question, I guess an access question.

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Speaker 2: I've been very lucky in that I've met so many

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Speaker 2: amazing people through golf. I cannot tell you how many

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Speaker 2: people I've met over the last fifteen years through golf

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Speaker 2: that I now consider my dearest friends. And that network

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Speaker 2: is a really useful tool, uh, when you're specifically seeking

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Speaker 2: out a certain course that you really want to see.

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Speaker 2: I was down in Florida last week and a very

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Speaker 2: good buddy of mine, who is a member of a

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Speaker 2: couple of clubs down south, was able to set up

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Speaker 2: seminal for us. He knew that I really wanted to

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Speaker 2: see it, and he was kind enough to set it

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Speaker 2: up for me without even asking. I have found that

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Speaker 2: people who love golf also happened to be some of

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Speaker 2: the most generous people that I've ever I've ever encountered. Uh,

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Speaker 2: And I think you'll you'll probably second this. People who

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Speaker 2: love golf just want to be around and play golf

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Speaker 2: and talk golf with other people who are enough about

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Speaker 2: the game like they are. So if if Conner here

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Speaker 2: is asking for advice on how to see courses, or

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Speaker 2: if there's a course that he might have an interest

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Speaker 2: in playing. A big part of it is just putting

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Speaker 2: yourself out there and meeting other people who love golf.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you never know when you run into a

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Speaker 2: guy who has a sweater own that has a logo,

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Speaker 2: of of course you recognize of conversation with him, you

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Speaker 2: never know where that guy is a member at, and

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Speaker 2: he might become a useful contact in the future, and

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Speaker 2: more importantly than that, he might become a buddy that

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Speaker 2: joins your Sunday force and later one of your friends,

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Speaker 2: or a buddy who you go on golf trips. But

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Speaker 2: I can't tell you I'm any golf trips I've gone

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Speaker 2: on with people I hadn't met before we arrived at

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Speaker 2: wherever we were going with golf. I just think it's

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Speaker 2: such a communal game in that respect, and it's really

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Speaker 2: interesting to see how the more people you meet, the

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Speaker 2: bigger your sort of world gets and your ability to

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Speaker 2: see the places you want to see. And then obviously

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Speaker 2: the corollary to that is it's just important to be

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Speaker 2: a generous person and somebody that people like to spend

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Speaker 2: time with. In return, I get contacted all the time

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Speaker 2: by people who will come into Philadelphia, who might want

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Speaker 2: to see certain courses or might just ask me, hey, listen,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to be in town for a couple of days,

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Speaker 2: where should I play? And I not only enjoy when

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Speaker 2: people reach out to me and ask me those kind

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Speaker 2: of questions, but if I can help in any way,

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Speaker 2: I'm happy to do that. And I think that that

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Speaker 2: kind of that kind of helping others really does lend

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Speaker 2: itself to getting to getting it returned to you in

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Speaker 2: one good way or another. So I just the bottom

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Speaker 2: line is this, you have to make yourself available. You

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Speaker 2: have to have to go out and meet people, and

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Speaker 2: you've got to be open to both playing with people

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Speaker 2: that you don't know, getting comfortable in a situation where

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Speaker 2: you're you're the new guy in a group, and you

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Speaker 2: really just have to have a taste for meeting people.

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Speaker 2: I mean that's both in business and in golf. Networking

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Speaker 2: is such a key point and such a critical aspect

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Speaker 2: of success that it's something that I don't think anybody

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Speaker 2: can be too good at. Yeah, it's something that I

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Speaker 2: enjoy doing. It's something that meeting new people is always

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Speaker 2: something I enjoy. So it's been good in that respect then,

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Speaker 2: and of course luck, you know, it obviously entailed a

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Speaker 2: lot of luck to get on certain courses, as I'm

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Speaker 2: sure your listeners know, and and certainly I've had very

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Speaker 2: good fortune in that respect over the last couple of

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Speaker 2: couple of years. And it's it's absolutely not something that

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Speaker 2: I would ever take for granted.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, you know, if you're a golf junkie

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Speaker 1: and you put yourself in the right situation, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I think a big part about it is like, you know,

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Speaker 1: people want to take people out there that they know

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Speaker 1: are going to enjoy the experience. You know, it's not

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Speaker 1: necessarily like I don't think the right reason is I'm

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Speaker 1: checking one of the top one hundred off my lists.

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Speaker 1: Like that's not necessarily a good reason. But a great

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Speaker 1: reason is like I want to go see the great architecture,

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Speaker 1: or you know, I really want to like having a

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Speaker 1: purpose and having a real like is something that I've

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Speaker 1: found that you know, you know, is that I've found

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Speaker 1: that you know, I write a lot about architecture, and

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Speaker 1: you know, people want to show you the architecture of

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Speaker 1: their golf course, and you know, I'm I don't I

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Speaker 1: could give you know, I could care less what number

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Speaker 1: of golf courses on golf die just top one hundred lists.

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Speaker 1: What I really want to see is the architecture. Like

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Speaker 1: a perfect example is in your backyard. Of course, I'm

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Speaker 1: kind of dying to play is White Marsh Valley, and

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Speaker 1: I want to play there because yeah, it's George Thomas

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Speaker 1: is who for those of you that don't know, it's

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Speaker 1: his first design and it was and he's the same

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Speaker 1: guy that designed bel Air Riviera Laccne Nor So you know,

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Speaker 1: getting to see see an architects first design is you know,

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Speaker 1: something really cool. So that's a place that's really high

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Speaker 1: on my list, and you won't find it on any

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Speaker 1: top one hundred lists, you know. I think that that's

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Speaker 1: an important aspect of you know, getting the access places,

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Speaker 1: is that you're doing it for the right reason.

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Speaker 2: I could not agree with you more. Uh, And not

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Speaker 2: only that, but I think that's exactly the kind of

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Speaker 2: attitude and talking about when when you're you're putting yourself

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Speaker 2: out there. I mean, some of my most enjoyable rounds

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Speaker 2: this year and in years past have been at courses

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Speaker 2: that that won't sniff a golf magazine or a golf

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Speaker 2: digest list, and just in the last couple of months alone.

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Speaker 2: Glen Falls is a course that I've been I've been

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Speaker 2: putting a lot of photos out on Twitter and Instagram.

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Speaker 2: That place is incredible as far as the architecture is concerned.

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Speaker 2: Country Club at Troy uh Ortard Lake out in out

395
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Speaker 2: in Michigan, amazing golf course, not on any top one

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Speaker 2: hundred lists, and that's really what I love. There is

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Speaker 2: nothing that makes me happier than seeing a course that

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Speaker 2: just surprises me to no end. And if you're if

399
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Speaker 2: you're into that, you can be assured that there are

400
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Speaker 2: members at courses who are golf nuts just like you

401
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Speaker 2: and me, who would love nothing more than for some

402
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Speaker 2: enthusiastic golfner to come out check out their course and

403
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Speaker 2: talk to them about architecture over a beer.

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Speaker 1: It's uh yeah, I think that that I find more

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Speaker 1: joy in finding those gems you know that not a

406
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Speaker 1: lot of people know about, but are just fantastic places

407
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Speaker 1: to play golf. And a lot of times, I mean

408
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Speaker 1: the club the clubs, Oh yeah, I think like you know,

409
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Speaker 1: Manufacturers is a perfect example of that. I played. I

410
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Speaker 1: was blown away by Applebrook out there. I thought that

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Speaker 1: was really good. Yeah, and it's you know, there's a

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Speaker 1: bunch of them in Chicago too. I mean there there

413
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Speaker 1: are a bunch of them everywhere. I think that, you know,

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Speaker 1: like a you know, you look at all these places.

415
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Speaker 1: Is a lot of times these Golden age architects like

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe not the highest thought of course in

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Speaker 1: the area. Sometimes are you know, the most fun to play,

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Speaker 1: because they aren't, you know, they aren't trying to be

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Speaker 1: a championship golf course. They're trying to be a fun

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Speaker 1: golf course.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and I quite frankly, I am not good enough

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Speaker 2: to play a championship golf course the way it's supposed

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Speaker 2: to be played. But I am just about good enough

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Speaker 2: to play a quirky, funky Seth.

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Speaker 4: Rayner design that has the same length that it did

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Speaker 4: in nineteen twenty when they were using full.

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Speaker 2: Hickory's and a ball made out of bird feathers, you know.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's the kind of golf that appeals to me.

429
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Speaker 2: I'm not going to be trying out for the my

430
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Speaker 2: Tour card anytime soon. So the idea of a course

431
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Speaker 2: being seventy five hundred yards and having rough that's six

432
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Speaker 2: inches deep in greens that are running fifteen doesn't appeal

433
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Speaker 2: to me at all. But that weird little Golden Age

434
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Speaker 2: design and it's barely been touched, that is in some

435
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 2: neighborhood that nobody even drives through on their way to

436
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 2: the US Open Course down the street, is exactly what

437
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 2: I'm after when I'm going to a new city.

438
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 1: So, you know, you say so, I'm curious, how do

439
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 1: you go about scheduling like your year of trips? And

440
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:21,880
Speaker 1: you know, you know, what are some of the new

441
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 1: places that you're looking at for twenty seventeen.

442
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 2: Already good question. So weather has a lot to do

443
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 2: with it as a as I'm sure you know, being

444
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 2: from the Chicago area. Once about December fifteenth hits here,

445
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 2: it's probably a little earlier for you. Golf is pretty

446
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 2: much over. So from just about this time of year

447
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,400
Speaker 2: through the end of March, I'm just looking to get

448
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 2: the hell out of here and go somewhere warmer. Ideally

449
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 2: there's going to be golf there. If there isn't, I

450
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,640
Speaker 2: will find it. But I am looking for warm weather

451
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 2: destinations at this point in time. If I have a

452
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 2: work trip that takes me somewhere where the temperatures are

453
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 2: going to get over six in the winter even better,

454
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 2: but if not, I'm still getting out of town. My

455
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 2: wife and I usually try to go down to South

456
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,119
Speaker 2: Carolina every December, and obviously there's some great golf there.

457
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,679
Speaker 2: But as long as I can get away to a

458
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 2: couple of warm weather spots this time of year, I'll

459
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 2: be happy in summer months. It's really just about picking

460
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,120
Speaker 2: areas that have courses that I'm interested in. The other

461
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,679
Speaker 2: interesting thing is that my wife is a big marathoner

462
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 2: and triathlete, and every year she tries to do one

463
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:35,159
Speaker 2: big race in some far away location in the US. So,

464
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 2: for example, she's got a big race in Kurdalene, Idaho,

465
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 2: this coming August. So that's a great opportunity for me

466
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 2: to go out there and play the courses in and

467
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 2: around Kurdalen, to go over and play Rock Creek Cattle,

468
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 2: play Godza Ranch, maybe even take a trip a little

469
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 2: further west and play gamble sands. You know, those are

470
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 2: really nice things to have that my wife and I

471
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 2: can do together to you know, make this thing seem

472
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 2: more reasonable and all this crazy golf and not leads

473
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 2: to divorced.

474
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: That's it. You know, it's gotta be tough for her,

475
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,400
Speaker 1: it's training was that elevation.

476
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, she uh, A lot of the things that she

477
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 2: she does would would kill a lesser man like, but

478
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,919
Speaker 2: she's she's done great with it. She she really loved it.

479
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 2: And uh. The the the fact that we can jointly

480
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 2: do a vacation to somewhere in the middle of nowhere

481
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 2: that will allow me to play a couple of rounds

482
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 2: of golf at some really nice places while she gets

483
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 2: to do something too, uh and we get to see

484
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 2: the a new area of the country that we've never

485
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,160
Speaker 2: seen before. It's it's really a nice a nice benefit

486
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 2: of of our little settle.

487
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 1: That's cool.

488
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 2: That'll be that will definitely be a fun trip for

489
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 2: this year. You know.

490
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 1: It's one one out there that I've wanted to check

491
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 1: out and I've heard so much about is Sylvie's Ranch.

492
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 1: It's out and it's in Oregon. I think it's in

493
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 1: like the eastern part of Oregon. And it's a Dan

494
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:12,239
Speaker 1: Hickson and it's it's a reversible course. So it was

495
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: actually yeah, so he started it before Doak started the Loop.

496
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 1: But like you know, there, I don't know what the

497
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: deal with their ownership hasn't you know, wasn't ready to

498
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: do the resort yet, so they didn't. You know, the

499
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: course is pretty much done though, which in it looks

500
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: spectacular from the pictures I've seen.

501
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 2: I would love to see it. I do know. I've

502
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 2: heard of the course that you're talking about. I don't

503
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 2: know too much about it. I don't think much of

504
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 2: out there about it. But that's exactly the kind of

505
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 2: course that I would love to see out that way.

506
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 2: Another one I'm looking at possibly seeing. It's sort of

507
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,640
Speaker 2: in the middle of nowhere, at this place called Sutton Bay,

508
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 2: which is in I think South Dakota. But I just

509
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 2: stumbled upon it the other day and it just looked beautiful,

510
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 2: caught my eye, and now it's on my always growing

511
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 2: list of places I would like to check out at

512
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 2: some point or another.

513
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, my list, guess I think I add like four

514
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: or five to my list every day, and it's it's

515
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: just it's awful.

516
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 2: If I could play half of my list between now

517
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 2: and whenever I die, I will consider that a rousing success.

518
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,120
Speaker 2: So the list, it doesn't matter how much golf I play,

519
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 2: the list always grows.

520
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 1: So now that we're on your list, let's let's hear

521
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 1: like you know what are where are the top five

522
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 1: courses on that list that you haven't gotten to yet?

523
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 2: On my wish list, the number one is, without question Cyprus.

524
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 2: Point I've only I've only done one trip to the

525
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 2: the San Francisco in the Northern California area, and I

526
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 2: was very fortunate and I got to play a lot

527
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 2: of really great courses. But Cyprus is absolutely far and

528
00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 2: away the number one course on my wish lists, both

529
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 2: domestically and abroad. I am dying to see it for

530
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 2: reasons that we don't really need to get into, because

531
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 2: it's obviously anybody who's ever picked up a club, but

532
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 2: that is a place that you know, I'm dying to play.

533
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 2: I'm also hoping and planning to play Pine Valley in

534
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen. It's a little ridiculous given that it's fifteen

535
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 2: minutes from my house. I've had it set up i

536
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 2: think four times in the past, and through what is

537
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 2: becoming an absolute comedy of circumstances, the round has fallen

538
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 2: through each time. Hurricane Sandy ruined one of the round.

539
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 2: Poor a member who had been so kind to invite

540
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 2: me for one of the rounds actually died before we

541
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 2: got a chance to play one time. It snowed on

542
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 2: the day that we were supposed to play. So Pine

543
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 2: Valley has become sort of the white whale locally, and

544
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 2: it's even more frustrating, like I said, since I can

545
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 2: practically see it from my deck, so I would be

546
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 2: on the I really want to see sand Hills this year.

547
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, certainly the best modern that I've never seen, way

548
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 5: up there on my list is Camargo, which is probably the.

549
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 2: Best seth Rainer, of course, of them. I'm a huge

550
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 2: steed in McDonald, Seth Rayner, Charlie Banks fan, and I've

551
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 2: played what I'll say, most seth Rainers courses, but Camargo

552
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 2: is one that I have heard nothing but wonderful things about.

553
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 2: So I'm very much looking.

554
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: Forward to playing their best set of template part threes

555
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 1: of any Rainer McDonald.

556
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 2: They say, so I've heard, I've heard the same thing.

557
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: So so for incredible for the for the audience out there,

558
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: something that very few people I think some people know,

559
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: but you know, if if you are, if you are

560
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: good enough to be able to try and qualify for

561
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: a U s A. Every single year, Camargo hosts the

562
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 1: USAM qualifier. So for one hundred and fifty bucks to

563
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: the USGA. You get a practice round and two other

564
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: two tournament rounds at Camargo Country Club. So that's something

565
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 1: that you know, if you are a golf architecture nerd

566
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: and a good player, that should be something that's a

567
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 1: on your list of things to do.

568
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 2: And from what I know about Camargo, I am not

569
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 2: quite good enough to play in a USM qualifier. But

570
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 2: if what I will say is even having not played

571
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 2: Camargo but having heard so many good things about it,

572
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 2: for one hundred and fifty dollars, that's the kind of

573
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 2: thing that I would absolutely plan golf trip around.

574
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 6: Yes, if any of your listeners have the handicap and

575
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 6: the desire, I would. I would certainly make that trip

576
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 6: and we could talk about this later. In Ohio is

577
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 6: sort of the great untapped area for me. There are

578
00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 6: so many.

579
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 2: Courses that I want to play in Ohio. It's one

580
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 2: of the few areas that I haven't spent. I've spent

581
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 2: almost no time in Ohio, and it is just shock

582
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 2: full of dynamite classic courses with terrisdic architectures. I would I.

583
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: I haven't played a ton in Ohio either, and I

584
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: was amazed. A buddy of mine was going to Cleveland

585
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 1: for something. He asked me, Hey, where should I play

586
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: in Cleveland? So you know, I was like, well, let

587
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 1: me do some research, and I pulled it up. I mean,

588
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: there's multiple Stanley Thompson designs, There's tons of Donald Ross.

589
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: I mean, there are so many. And these are all

590
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: public access courses. You know, the city of Cleveland operates

591
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: I think to Stanley Thompson designs and one or two

592
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: Donald Ross designs. They are supposed to be spectacular courses.

593
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 2: It's it's incredible, both on the public and private side.

594
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,719
Speaker 2: How much good golf ohioland and it's a crime that

595
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 2: I haven't gotten out out there more than I have.

596
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 2: I mean, I've driven through Ohio to go to Chicago,

597
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 2: to go to Wisconsin, to go to Michigan several times,

598
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 2: but I think I've played something like two courses in

599
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 2: Ohio and that's just ridiculous given the quality of golf there.

600
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: I know one place you've been. I think, I'm I'm

601
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: gonna do my USAM qualifier at Moraine Country Club in Dayton.

602
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 1: So I heard, I know you went there this year

603
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 1: and you said it was great.

604
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 2: It's amazing. That is exactly the kind of course that

605
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 2: we were talking about earlier when we were talking about

606
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 2: courses that aren't on any list, although I will say

607
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 2: that it would not surprise me in the least to

608
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 2: see Moraine pop up on a couple of those lists

609
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 2: in the near future now that Keith Foster's work there

610
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 2: is done. But you talk about a golf course that

611
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 2: is on an amazing piece of land, that has a

612
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 2: membership that cares about the course, cares about its history,

613
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 2: cares about its pedigree, and it's a rich architecture and

614
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 2: and it has both the means and the desire to

615
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 2: to get the course back to the way it was

616
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 2: originally intended to be. And you have a place like Marine.

617
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 2: It is incredible And I wholeheartedly co signed your decision

618
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 2: to do your qualifier there. You will love the golf course.

619
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:22,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, As I was like, we have just the

620
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 1: worst sites in uh Illinois this year, so I'm just

621
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go out of state for I think all

622
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 1: of them and just find some cool courses. I think

623
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 1: one of the mid Am sites is a country club

624
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 1: of Fairfield, But I don't think I'm gonna go out

625
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 1: there a week before my wedding. I think I'd get

626
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 1: probably killed. I wouldn't be getting having a wedding if

627
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 1: that happens.

628
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 2: I will tell you Fairfield is awfully nice, but since

629
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 2: I want your wedding to go off, well I won't.

630
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 2: I won't tell you too much about it.

631
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, So.

632
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 7: You know, we've seen some some drone pictures from you,

633
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 7: and Drew is curious about what kind of drone you use,

634
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 7: and he's he just got a Phantom three Pro and

635
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 7: he's been kind of hurt by the recent weather.

636
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 2: So I certainly feel Drew's pain. I actually my prior

637
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 2: drone to the one I'm using now as a Phantom

638
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,320
Speaker 2: three Pro like Drew's using, and that's a terrific drone.

639
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 2: I unfortunately crashed my drone, and one of the things

640
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 2: I will tell you is good luck getting a drone

641
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 2: repaired anywhere in the comminental of the United States, especially

642
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,839
Speaker 2: if it's a DJI drone like I use. They just

643
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 2: there's nobody who will touch it, and it's just not

644
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,280
Speaker 2: quite worth sending it all the way back to Japan

645
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 2: to it worked on. So having crashed that one I

646
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 2: earlier this year before on my trips I went out

647
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 2: and I got the Phantom four, which is very much

648
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 2: like the one Drew's using, with a couple extra features.

649
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 2: But it's a it's a wonderful photography tool. It's a

650
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 2: wonderful tool to play with, especially if you are sort

651
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 2: of a gadget geek, like I think most photographers and

652
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:18,439
Speaker 2: most golfers are. They're a blast to play with, and

653
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 2: I have been really, really thrilled with some of the

654
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 2: photos that I've managed to.

655
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,839
Speaker 8: Pull out of my drone this year. Uh, it's been

656
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 8: it's been a good year for that, and I think

657
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 8: who's gonna have a good time with it? They are,

658
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 8: They're really a blast to use, and they're they're.

659
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,320
Speaker 2: Just perfect for golf photography. I mean, the nature of

660
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 2: a golf course lends itself to those those elevated perspective

661
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 2: photos like nothing else. It's it's just a great tool

662
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 2: if you're looking to capture golf courses from an interesting perspective.

663
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 1: So yeah, I've been kicking around the idea of getting one.

664
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 1: I feel like I just really miss out on getting Like,

665
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: you know, I think Chris Spence does a great job

666
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 1: getting like green Ngel with his drone shots and whenever

667
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: I look at yours, I just like, God, I want

668
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,320
Speaker 1: one of these, but it's.

669
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 2: A lot of fun. I will. I'll just recommend that,

670
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 2: you know, don't spend a lot of money on your

671
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 2: first one, because you will almost certainly crash.

672
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 6: It, almost to guarantee.

673
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 2: But anybody who asks me whether they should get a drone,

674
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 2: my response is always the same. If you can afford

675
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 2: it and you think you might want one, to get it,

676
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 2: because you'll really enjoy using it, even if you don't

677
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 2: use it regarf that much. They're just a blast to

678
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 2: send up and fly around and get an interesting perspective

679
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 2: on things that you wouldn't otherwise have. There are a

680
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 2: lot of fun and well, well they're certainly not They're

681
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 2: not cheap. You can get, especially nowadays, you can get

682
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 2: a really high quality drone that's going to give you

683
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 2: really good performance and really good pictures for a very

684
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 2: reason price. I think you can get a fan of

685
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,479
Speaker 2: three these days for something like five hundred bucks, which,

686
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 2: you know, five hundred dollars is a lot of money,

687
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 2: but that's around the pedal beach, you know, for a

688
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 2: drone that you're gonna have until you end up crashing it.

689
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,280
Speaker 1: So if if you're interested until it takes beat.

690
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 2: Right, it's exactly exactly so. And like I said, some

691
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 2: of the the photos and the courses that I'm going

692
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,439
Speaker 2: to shoot this year with the drone have have really

693
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 2: turned out well. And I just figured out how to

694
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 2: fly with my drone too, So now when I travel

695
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 2: by air, I can take it with me and and

696
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 2: shoot some courses that aren't aren't near Philly. So I'm

697
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 2: looking forward to doing that in twenty seven, especially by

698
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 2: the way, if I can get if I can find

699
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 2: myself away to sand Hills and baling Neil and his

700
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 2: other course, Oh god, I would love to shoot those

701
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 2: with a drone. Wow, would they come out looking me?

702
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been thinking about doing that trip too. I

703
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: you know, it's just it's gonna be a week. But

704
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 1: you know, they go out there and do Prairie Clubs

705
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 1: out there too, which is supposed to be a really

706
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 1: really good facility. And bally Neil sand Hills its yeah,

707
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 1: dismal rivers right there. I mean, I guess right there

708
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: isn't that good of a description. But yeah, when you

709
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 1: get into when you get into sand Hills, like three

710
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:27,959
Speaker 1: hours is like right around the corner.

711
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 2: That qualifies to the next door in that part of

712
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 2: the world.

713
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, you know, Michael is and this is a

714
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 1: place that's high on my list of places to check out.

715
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: You know, he's trying to get you to see Culver.

716
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: He wants to know what does it take, You know, Michael,

717
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 1: all it.

718
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 2: Takes is warm weather and a message on what they

719
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 2: works for you. I would love to see Culver. That

720
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 2: place looks incredible, especially after the walk they've done there.

721
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 2: I mean, I have an affection for nine whole courses,

722
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 2: actually for non traditional courses, whether they're you know, nine holes,

723
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 2: whether it's a course like abandoned preserved thirteen whole park

724
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 2: three course. I love seeing courses that don't fit the

725
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 2: traditional eighteen hole part seventy two, you know, sixty eight

726
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 2: hundred yard model, and Culver looks like a place that

727
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 2: has nailed that model down close to perfection. It just

728
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 2: looks amazing. I would love to see it, and I'll

729
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 2: certainly tell Michael that it will not take much to

730
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 2: get me out there.

731
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 1: Well, you know, they've got the course was done by

732
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: one of the most underrated architects duos of all time,

733
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 1: Langford Moreau and those guys were you know, Brainer McDonald's disciples.

734
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 1: We see a ton of their work here in Chicago,

735
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 1: but not a lot of people know of them outside

736
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 1: of you know, the kind of the Midwest, Wisconsin and Illinois, Indiana.

737
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 1: So the great architects. Another nine hole spot that I

738
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: saw this year that was, you know, blew me away

739
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 1: with Sweden's Cove. So yeah, I would highly recommend a

740
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 1: Chattanooga trip because there's a lot of good golf.

741
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, there really is. In Tennessee, like Ohio is an

742
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 2: area that I really have to get to. You know.

743
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 2: Lookout Mountain is down there, which is for for your listeners,

744
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 2: is another rain of course that I haven't seen, but

745
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 2: would absolutely love to. Sweden's Cove is most definitely on

746
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:41,760
Speaker 2: my list. Everybody I know that's played there just raves

747
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 2: about the place. You know, I've seen photos. They look incredible.

748
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 2: Everything about the place is just screaming out for a visit.

749
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 2: And of course in Tennessee then you have the big

750
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 2: dogs like Honors Course, and then not certainly down in Atlanta,

751
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 2: there's a couple others that there.

752
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there's a there's another course, Black Creek there

753
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 1: that's a Brian Brian Silva design that you know is

754
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: modeled after Rayner McDonald too. That's it's supposed to be

755
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 1: really good. So and then then there's a course in Knoxville,

756
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 1: Holston Hills that yeah, that was. That was an awesome,

757
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 1: awesome place.

758
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:25,280
Speaker 2: Told me that Holston Hills is one of the purest

759
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 2: rosses they've ever played.

760
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's It's like so the it's an interesting story.

761
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 1: The club was always on the wrong side of the tracks.

762
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:39,720
Speaker 1: So essentially, when you know, golf was in its death

763
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: period of architecture, they didn't have any money to plant

764
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 1: trees and mess it up. So now they have, you know,

765
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,720
Speaker 1: one of the primo ross courses in all the country.

766
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,240
Speaker 1: I mean, this place is so playable, it's so fun.

767
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 1: I mean, they've got a one of the coolest volcano

768
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:03,720
Speaker 1: holes that you'll ever see. It's like a three hundred

769
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:08,800
Speaker 1: yard uphill par four. Just I mean, it is a great,

770
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 1: great golf course.

771
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 2: I can't wait to see the buddy of mine is

772
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:18,240
Speaker 2: remember there. So maybe we'll have to add the Tennessee

773
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,320
Speaker 2: area to the Winterstic Winter Destination.

774
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:25,839
Speaker 1: I don't think it's it's and I don't think it's

775
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:27,839
Speaker 1: not that far. If you do it in the if

776
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 1: you know, it's not that far from Ohio and you know,

777
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:35,800
Speaker 1: or Atlanta. Chattanooga's only I think two hours from Atlanta.

778
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: So I always tell people if you're if you're a

779
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 1: golfer and you live within like five hours of Sweeten's Cove,

780
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 1: you should go there like once every two months. So

781
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I like, I've I've had multiple days

782
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,439
Speaker 1: where I've just thought about getting my car and going

783
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:58,240
Speaker 1: there and it's nine hours away.

784
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 2: But I know that's feeling. I know that's feeling, especially

785
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 2: this time of year. I have done some crazy things

786
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 2: on random December and January days where I just need

787
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 2: golf and I say, all right, well, I'm getting in

788
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:11,760
Speaker 2: the car at three in the morning and I'm driving

789
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 2: south and you know, I'm going to Pinehurst or I'm

790
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:18,239
Speaker 2: going to South Carolina or whatever, and you know, you

791
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 2: play thirty six cole, stay overnight, play another round or two,

792
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 2: and drive home.

793
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 6: I mean that's sort of the way we northern folk get.

794
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 2: In the winter time.

795
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's get another one of these questions here.

796
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 1: This is from Chris Butler. What golf course features are

797
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 1: easiest to capture well with a smartphone? And how do

798
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 1: we do it. I think we touched on some of

799
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 1: this a little bit earlier, but I think this is

800
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:46,240
Speaker 1: this will be a good question.

801
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 2: So let me let me capture the smartphone. Let me

802
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,399
Speaker 2: talk to the smartphone part. First, smartphones these days are

803
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,280
Speaker 2: so good that anything somebody can do with the camera,

804
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 2: you can do almost just as well with a smartphone.

805
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 2: You do not need what we'll call it a real

806
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:05,240
Speaker 2: camera to take good photos a golf courses. You just don't.

807
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 2: The iPhone camera is the new Google smartphone, and any

808
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 2: fansung phone the camera is easily good enough to serve

809
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:19,760
Speaker 2: as a golf course camera, and that's without exception. So

810
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 2: the question is really what course features can we capture?

811
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 2: So the biggest difference with the smartphone is the center

812
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:32,720
Speaker 2: is smaller and there's no zoom. So what most people,

813
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,359
Speaker 2: at least in my humble opinion, sort of mess up

814
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 2: when they're trying to take photos of a golf course

815
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 2: with the smartphone is that they're they're too far away

816
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 2: from the features they're trying to capture. And like I

817
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:46,760
Speaker 2: was saying earlier, that's where you get that t shot

818
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 2: photo where you know, you kind of see the beginning

819
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 2: of the fair way, and then you get closer to

820
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,320
Speaker 2: the green, everything is getting small, and then the green

821
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 2: is like a spec way on the distance, and you

822
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,800
Speaker 2: don't really get a perspective on how the whole actually looks.

823
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 2: You can't really see any features because everything is sort

824
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 2: of minimized. So the number one recommendation now gives people

825
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 2: if they're shooting the smartphone, is to find something about

826
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 2: a given hole or a given course and it's interesting,

827
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 2: and then get up close and shoot it. Whether that

828
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:20,720
Speaker 2: is a role of the green, whether it's a bunker feature,

829
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 2: whether it's an element of a terrain that they think

830
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 2: is curious or unique or they think might look nice,

831
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 2: get up close to it and capture it as best

832
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 2: you can. My really, the only rule that I have

833
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 2: for cake and golf course photos, and this is not

834
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 2: a rule that anybody needs to follow, but I think

835
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 2: it's a good point of reference, is so long as

836
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 2: you can see the pin in your photo, you're going

837
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 2: to have a usable photo. So with a smartphone, what

838
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 2: I like to do, and I shoot a smartphone all

839
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 2: the time, is to especially get up by the green

840
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 2: and shoot the way a bunker is arrayed with the

841
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 2: pin in the background, or get down real low and

842
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,319
Speaker 2: shoot a picture from almost ground level so you can

843
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,439
Speaker 2: see how the green either slopes upward front to back

844
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 2: or how it rolls in certain spots. But you really

845
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 2: need to be close to what you're shooting with a smartphone,

846
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 2: otherwise you're gonna have a picture that is distorted in

847
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 2: terms of the real way a whole looks, and frankly,

848
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 2: it's just not gonna be that interesting because you're not

849
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 2: gonna be able to make out any detail. That's really

850
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 2: what I think makes a good golf photo. It's a

851
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,880
Speaker 2: photo that that makes you feel like you're actually standing

852
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 2: there and looking at whatever the photographer's trying to show you.

853
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 2: And you just can't do that from far away with

854
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:42,240
Speaker 2: the smartphone. So as long as you're you're up close,

855
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 2: and you're you're shooting things from a compelling angle or

856
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 2: from a from a compelling height, you're gonna end up

857
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 2: with a good photo. The other thing you've got to

858
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 2: be aware of with the photo is that or with

859
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 2: a smartphone, is that the photos are going to be

860
00:47:56,360 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 2: much more sensitive to the way the light is hitting

861
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 2: the camera. So if you're shooting into the sun with

862
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 2: a regular smartphone camera, the picture is not going to

863
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:07,840
Speaker 2: come out well, so you've got to move to a

864
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:11,319
Speaker 2: spot where you're not shooting directly into the sun. A

865
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,320
Speaker 2: lot of phones these days have an HDR mode, a

866
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 2: high dynamic range mode that will allow you to balance

867
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 2: out and equalize the light and the shadow in a

868
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 2: picture with a smartphone, and given the limitations of the smartphone,

869
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:29,280
Speaker 2: this can be a really useful feature. I would recommend

870
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 2: everybody who shoots the smartphone play with a little bit.

871
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:34,839
Speaker 2: iPhone has it native in the camera app, but there

872
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 2: are also third party apps that you can use. The

873
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 2: only caution I would give people who are trying it

874
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 2: is it's really easy to get carried away with it

875
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 2: and end up with a very stake looking photo or

876
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 2: almost a cartoonish looking photo if you go overboard. But

877
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:52,399
Speaker 2: if it's choose correctly, it can really be a nice

878
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 2: tool for somebody with the smartphone where the sensor might

879
00:48:56,320 --> 00:49:00,880
Speaker 2: not be as capable of capturing the bring light conditions

880
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:03,799
Speaker 2: that we've seen to go. But again, it was a

881
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:07,359
Speaker 2: long one way of answering a relatively simple and straightforward question.

882
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 2: But the most important thing is get up close to

883
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 2: whatever you're shooting. If you're shooting a smartphone.

884
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,880
Speaker 1: Yep, that's a great piece of advice, one that I'm

885
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:19,800
Speaker 1: actually gonna take to heart, because I am so guilty

886
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 1: of what you talk about with shooting with a smartphone

887
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 1: and just taking a picture of a really long haul

888
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 1: from the team.

889
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 2: I do it. I do it all the time. And

890
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 2: it's amazing because I'll be standing on a tee with

891
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 2: my phone and looking down at the hole and thinking

892
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 2: this really looks amazing, and I'll shoot the photo, and

893
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 2: you know, I'll do it a couple more times. I'll

894
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 2: get home and I can't wait to look at these

895
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 2: photos that I got, and I'll pull them up and

896
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 2: it doesn't even look like the same hole that I

897
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 2: was standing on because the perspective is so it's so

898
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 2: minimized because of the way the smartphone cameras look. And

899
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 2: on that point that that's really like I said, you

900
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 2: certainly don't need what I refer to as a real

901
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 2: camera to shoot golf course photos. But one of the

902
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 2: nice things that a real camera like the Sony has

903
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,919
Speaker 2: that can be a really useful pool in shooting golf

904
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 2: courses is the zoom function, not only because it allows

905
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:19,839
Speaker 2: you to artificially get closer to whatever you're shooting, but

906
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 2: because it allows you to play with the depth field

907
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 2: and the perceived depth of the background in photos. So

908
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 2: you zoom in and not only do you make the

909
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 2: things bigger in your photo, but because the angle of

910
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 2: your shot decreases, it really pulls the background in closer,

911
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 2: so you can get closer to what it actually looks

912
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:42,399
Speaker 2: like to your eyes standing there when you have that capability.

913
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 2: But because most smartphones only have a digital zoom function,

914
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:50,840
Speaker 2: which is worse than workless, I've never recommend using that feature.

915
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:56,320
Speaker 2: It's harder to mimic that real life viewpoint that you

916
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 2: can do with a camera that have more capability.

917
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 1: So partly enough, this Rob has a question. You know,

918
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:10,880
Speaker 1: he he loves the setting sun a you know, he thinks,

919
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 1: you know, it's difficult to get the right you know,

920
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: capture of it. So what what are your tricks for? Uh?

921
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:20,920
Speaker 1: You know those pictures the last hour of sunlight.

922
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and some of those pictures are are the best

923
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 2: pictures to take, but they are tricky. So that's a

924
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:31,480
Speaker 2: really good question from Rob. There are a couple of

925
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 2: ways to go about it. If we're talking smartphone. For

926
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 2: the HDR function is a really good function when you're

927
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 2: shooting into the setting sun. Otherwise, what you'll end up

928
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 2: with a lot of times is you know you can

929
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 2: you can you can expose your shot for the sky

930
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:51,800
Speaker 2: and you'll get a really beautiful sunset, but the golf

931
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 2: hole will be black, just be shadowed out. Or you

932
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 2: can expose for the golf hole and it will come

933
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 2: up nice, but this beautiful sunset that your eyeballs will

934
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 2: be completely whited out and overexposed. So the HDR function

935
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:09,359
Speaker 2: sort of merges those two things together and you end

936
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:13,240
Speaker 2: up with a photo that hopefully is at least close

937
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,879
Speaker 2: to properly exposed both for the light and the dark.

938
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 2: The process for the camera is very similar to that.

939
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:24,320
Speaker 2: By the way, you can also create the HDR photos

940
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 2: after the fact that software, but for the most part,

941
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 2: the apps and the camera features that cameras have nowadays

942
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 2: you usually make that process unnecessary. But it's possible. But

943
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 2: that's I guess a little more advantable for us, you

944
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 2: know than us lowly golf courses aerever we really need

945
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 2: to know about. I don't do it as you're shooting

946
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:46,760
Speaker 2: with a real camera, and this goes for not only

947
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:50,400
Speaker 2: setting sunshots, but all shots. You want to make sure

948
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 2: that your camera is set up the way it needs

949
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:54,799
Speaker 2: to be and properly for the shot that you're trying

950
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 2: to take. People ask me all the time, what camera

951
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 2: should I buy for taking golfposed? And there are plenty

952
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 2: of answers that we'll get somebody a wonderful camera for

953
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 2: got photos. The thing I always tell them is whatever

954
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 2: camera you get, to make sure you learn how to

955
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:13,640
Speaker 2: use it. People expect to a lot of times people

956
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 2: to pop them out of the box. It's like a

957
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,880
Speaker 2: smartphone camera and immediately rip off these great photos. But

958
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:21,239
Speaker 2: you really just need to learn how to use the

959
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:23,880
Speaker 2: camera and how to set it up properly for the

960
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:27,759
Speaker 2: different shops that you're going to encounter. And to Rob's point,

961
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 2: I have a memory slot on my camera set up

962
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 2: for exactly the kind of shot that he's talking about,

963
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 2: so that when I end up on a hold that

964
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:40,160
Speaker 2: the sun is setting behind and we have this beautiful

965
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 2: scene in front of us, rather than having to tinkle

966
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 2: with everything and set the camera up the way it

967
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 2: needs to be set up to get a good photo,

968
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 2: I can just click a button and be ready to go.

969
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 2: You can use HDR modes in camera after this act

970
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 2: with regular cameras too, I think they tend to be

971
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:59,319
Speaker 2: much more natural looking than a lot of the cell

972
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 2: phone cameras will look when using that mode, So that

973
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 2: is a good way to do it. And then the

974
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 2: probably the most useful way to get really good shot

975
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:15,760
Speaker 2: into the setting sun is with editing after the fact

976
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 2: of post processing. We haven't really talked about that because

977
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 2: it's something that I absolutely despise doing. I hate editing

978
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:25,879
Speaker 2: my photo deck to the fact it takes so much

979
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:30,000
Speaker 2: time and it's it's not all that fun for me.

980
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:32,320
Speaker 2: I like shooting the photos, but I hate playing with them,

981
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 2: so I avoid it. I also don't use a computer

982
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 2: of my workflows from camera to iPad to wherever I'm

983
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 2: sharing the photos, so I'm limited in what software I've

984
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 2: access to. And I also shoot Jpeggett the post to walk.

985
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 2: But if you are really looking to get some great

986
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:53,360
Speaker 2: photos of the setting sun into the setting song on

987
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:57,799
Speaker 2: golf course, I guess my recommendation would be shoot with

988
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 2: a real camera, shoot with the highest dynamic range your

989
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 2: camera will allow you to shoot with and ideally shoot

990
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 2: in raw mode so that after the fact you can

991
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:12,799
Speaker 2: tinker with the photo to the maximum extent possible and

992
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:17,360
Speaker 2: darken up the the overexposed areas and brighten up the

993
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,280
Speaker 2: under exposed areas, and hopefully end up with a balanced

994
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 2: photo that you that you're happy with. Like I said,

995
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 2: there are a lot of ways to go about it.

996
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:27,720
Speaker 2: None of them is right or wrong or any better

997
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:32,800
Speaker 2: than the other, but it's it's it's a tricky photo

998
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:37,480
Speaker 2: to get right, and an easy photo to to capture

999
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:41,799
Speaker 2: an overblown cartoonish image on or one that's just simply unusable.

1000
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 2: So those are the methods that I use, and I've

1001
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:49,279
Speaker 2: had some success, but I've also had some failures. I mean,

1002
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:52,040
Speaker 2: sometimes no matter how hard you try, no matter how

1003
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:53,799
Speaker 2: well you set up the camera, and no matter how

1004
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:56,480
Speaker 2: hard you push it in editing after the fact, it

1005
00:55:56,640 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 2: just doesn't come out. And that's kind of the nature

1006
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:02,439
Speaker 2: of the trinal error.

1007
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:06,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I think everybody's been there, just you know,

1008
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 1: frustrated with it. You know, you see something that's just

1009
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:13,120
Speaker 1: absolutely epic and there's just no way to get it

1010
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 1: feel like, you know, you're in the moment again, I.

1011
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 2: Completely agree, And by the way, on that point, that's

1012
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 2: another you bring up a great point there.

1013
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:25,440
Speaker 4: If you are standing there looking at that epic moment

1014
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 4: and you really want to capture it, don't you shoot

1015
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 4: one photo, fire off a bunch, change your settings a

1016
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:34,279
Speaker 4: little bit, try something you ever tried before when you

1017
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 4: were dealing with digital cameras. Here, there's really no such

1018
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 4: thing as having too many photos. It's much better to

1019
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 4: get home with twenty photos of this epic shot you

1020
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:44,120
Speaker 4: thought you had and have.

1021
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:47,359
Speaker 2: Nineteen of them be worthless but one be usable, than

1022
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 2: to take one thing you thought it was set up perfectly,

1023
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 2: realize you didn't account for something, and get home and

1024
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 2: have a totally worthless, one shot image of this amazing scene.

1025
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:58,880
Speaker 2: So take multiple you get multiple cracks, bet it with

1026
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 2: the digital camera, use them.

1027
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. So let's Eric Bens has a good question here.

1028
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:11,279
Speaker 1: I think this is a great one. I think, you know,

1029
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:15,840
Speaker 1: there's a lot of golf travel people that tend to

1030
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:19,240
Speaker 1: focus on, you know, the high end resource and everything,

1031
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 1: but like you know, a lot of the great courses

1032
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,560
Speaker 1: are these hidden gems and you know, public courses that

1033
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 1: are under one hundred bucks to play that you know

1034
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:32,880
Speaker 1: you love. So what are some of your favorite, uh,

1035
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 1: you know, courses in across the country that are public

1036
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 1: and under one hundred bucks, and I'll give some of

1037
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 1: mine too.

1038
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 2: Great question. I don't know if it counts or the cheating,

1039
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:50,800
Speaker 2: but I think the absolute best value in golf is

1040
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 2: the replay rate at Bandon Dunes. If you go at

1041
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 2: the right time year, you can play thirty six holes

1042
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 2: of golf there and the second round is going to

1043
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 2: cost you something in the order of seventy five dollars.

1044
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 2: I think the first round might be one twenty five.

1045
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:09,840
Speaker 2: There is no better value, in my opinion, in public

1046
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 2: golf than that deal. I don't know. I've never been

1047
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 2: to Abandoned in the summer. I know the rates go

1048
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:18,440
Speaker 2: up a little, but certainly in spring, and I believe

1049
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:20,960
Speaker 2: in fall you can go out there and get those rates.

1050
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 2: And I just don't think you can possibly find a

1051
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 2: better deal in golf. And that goes for a lot

1052
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:29,800
Speaker 2: of high end resort courses. I mean, it doesn't necessarily

1053
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 2: apply at places like Whistling Straits, which is expensive, or Pinehurst,

1054
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 2: but I will tell you that a place like Kiowa Island,

1055
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 2: the Ocean Course, which is one of the first great

1056
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:43,080
Speaker 2: courses I ever played in the place that I try

1057
00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 2: to play every year when I go down to Kiowa.

1058
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:51,120
Speaker 2: If you play the Ocean course in December on a

1059
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 2: weekday after something like one o'clock, it's seventy bucks and

1060
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:57,120
Speaker 2: carry your own bag. You don't have to worry about

1061
00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:00,560
Speaker 2: a caddy. That's a great deal. So a lot of

1062
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:05,440
Speaker 2: the resource courses, if you are careful about what time

1063
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:08,439
Speaker 2: you're able to play in the day and what time

1064
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 2: of year, you can get some really great deals. And

1065
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:14,560
Speaker 2: I do that all the time. I love a good

1066
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 2: deal as much as anybody, and that's a great way

1067
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:23,520
Speaker 2: to get some. In Philadelphia, there's a lot of really classic,

1068
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 2: great courses that can be had very cheaply. Lulu country

1069
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:30,360
Speaker 2: Club is a place that around here that just went

1070
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 2: semi private. Used to be a private country club and

1071
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:37,160
Speaker 2: now it's open to the public during certain days and times.

1072
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 2: I've played there earlier in the late in the fall,

1073
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:43,880
Speaker 2: I guess at the end of November, and I think

1074
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:49,400
Speaker 2: it cost me fifty dollars. And this is a wonderful, quirky,

1075
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 2: well preserved, decently conditioned, total loss gem that anybody who

1076
00:59:57,240 --> 01:00:01,959
Speaker 2: is into architecture would absolutely adore. And it's really cheap

1077
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 2: for what you're seeing.

1078
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 1: My uncle was my uncle is the head pro out

1079
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:12,560
Speaker 1: there for about thirty years. So I love Louis. Yeah, great,

1080
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 1: great golf course.

1081
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 2: It's terrific, right, I mean, you don't get you don't

1082
01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 2: get those kind of courses anymore because they've always been

1083
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:24,560
Speaker 2: altered or updated or modernized. And here's a ross where

1084
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:27,360
Speaker 2: the club was perfectly contend with it and just sat

1085
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:31,000
Speaker 2: on it for eighty or ninety years and it exists

1086
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:34,160
Speaker 2: now almost in the same state that it didn'ts we

1087
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:34,800
Speaker 2: lost building.

1088
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:39,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's from what I've been able to

1089
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:41,840
Speaker 1: tell on Twitter, They're they're putting a lot of money

1090
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:45,400
Speaker 1: in a good, good new ownership. So that's the place

1091
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:47,840
Speaker 1: that should just get better with time.

1092
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:53,760
Speaker 2: Couldn't agree more. And then as far as the rest

1093
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:57,080
Speaker 2: of the question, it's really it's just a matter of

1094
01:00:57,880 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 2: being willing, at least in my opinion, to go off

1095
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:03,680
Speaker 2: the beaten path a little bit, your high end resource

1096
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:07,480
Speaker 2: where the demand is high and people with disposed will

1097
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:10,640
Speaker 2: incomers staying there are going to cost more money naturally.

1098
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 2: You know, there's a reason why Peddle Beach can keep

1099
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:15,560
Speaker 2: its screens fee at five hundred and fifty bucks or

1100
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 2: whatever they're getting these days. They charge it because people

1101
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 2: will pay it. But the further away you go from

1102
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:24,800
Speaker 2: the major cities, the further away you go from the

1103
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:29,160
Speaker 2: high end resorts, the better your chances are of getting

1104
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:34,320
Speaker 2: a great deal on a terrific public golf course for

1105
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:37,560
Speaker 2: less than hundred bucks. And there are a ton of

1106
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:41,760
Speaker 2: them out there. One that I played this year was

1107
01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:46,920
Speaker 2: out on Cape cod called Highland Links. Another nine holer

1108
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:50,560
Speaker 2: that we talked about earlier, full rescue everywhere. This place

1109
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 2: hasn't been touched since they originally laid it on the

1110
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:56,960
Speaker 2: ground back in I want to say something like nineteen twenty.

1111
01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:02,320
Speaker 2: And it's terrific. You can tire your own bag there

1112
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 2: all day long, play wonderful golf and it'll cost you

1113
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:09,200
Speaker 2: thirty five bucks or something like that. It's an amazing place.

1114
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 2: These kind of courses are around, and frankly, there's usually

1115
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:15,800
Speaker 2: at least one of them in or near every major

1116
01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:18,560
Speaker 2: city in the country. You just have to be willing

1117
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:20,280
Speaker 2: to look a little deeper and do a little more

1118
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 2: research to be able to find what's out there.

1119
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:26,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think a good practice is to well one

1120
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:31,320
Speaker 1: architect in particular, You can usually find Donald Ross courses everywhere.

1121
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:34,640
Speaker 1: He designed four hundred and twenty five of them. So

1122
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:38,440
Speaker 1: there are The Donald Ross Society has a full listing,

1123
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:41,160
Speaker 1: but a lot of them are public, I find. You know,

1124
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:45,120
Speaker 1: that's usually a pretty good bet if you're looking for

1125
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 1: a course with good bones. They aren't always in the

1126
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:50,520
Speaker 1: greatest shape, but the bones are there. They're fun.

1127
01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:51,640
Speaker 2: You know.

1128
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 1: A good example of that in Chicago there's a course

1129
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:57,640
Speaker 1: called Ravslow Country Club. It's on the south side of

1130
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:00,400
Speaker 1: the city. It's an old country club. This now public.

1131
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 1: That's a great golf course to play a one up

1132
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:08,080
Speaker 1: and you know, this is an awesome trip. And John,

1133
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:10,920
Speaker 1: this is this one should be very high on your

1134
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 1: radar is Sand Valley. But right forty five minutes from

1135
01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:21,440
Speaker 1: Sand Valley is a place called Lisnia and it's designed

1136
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:26,160
Speaker 1: by Lankford Morreau. It's probably one of the best golf

1137
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:29,439
Speaker 1: courses in all of the Midwest. Probably I would say

1138
01:03:29,720 --> 01:03:34,280
Speaker 1: top thirty golf course in the entire Midwest. And it

1139
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:36,680
Speaker 1: is I think, I want to say, like ninety bucks

1140
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:40,200
Speaker 1: to play, and the replay rate is around thirty. So

1141
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:44,040
Speaker 1: that place, I mean, you could play there all all

1142
01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:48,120
Speaker 1: the time. And then you know, forty five minutes away

1143
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:50,680
Speaker 1: you also have Sand Valley where they're building these courses.

1144
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:53,920
Speaker 1: That's gonna be a little bit more expensive, but you know,

1145
01:03:55,120 --> 01:03:59,919
Speaker 1: in that hour area you have four world class golf

1146
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:05,200
Speaker 1: horses now with the new David kid design. A couple others.

1147
01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:08,720
Speaker 1: I like a bell View at Biltmore which is down

1148
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:11,160
Speaker 1: in like the Tampa area. It's a cool little Donald

1149
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:15,400
Speaker 1: Ross public course. You know, Sweet and Scove, which we

1150
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:19,760
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier. Uh, there's a bunch you know that's that's

1151
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:25,200
Speaker 1: a whole blog post in itself. Best best values in golf.

1152
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:28,840
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I'll tell you I I've heard nothing but

1153
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:33,680
Speaker 2: good things about Lasonia. I'd love to to see that

1154
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:38,800
Speaker 2: place sometime soon. When I was in Chicago in early November,

1155
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:41,200
Speaker 2: I actually I didn't have a chance to play it

1156
01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:45,400
Speaker 2: in a time, but I actually drove into Ravaslow, got out,

1157
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:49,440
Speaker 2: walked around a little bit that place. Wills cred that

1158
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:51,880
Speaker 2: that is a course that is absolutely on my list

1159
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:55,680
Speaker 2: for my next trip Chicago. That's a great example in

1160
01:04:55,720 --> 01:04:58,640
Speaker 2: the filiary again, since that's my neck of the woods.

1161
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 2: A great place to head for relatively low cost public

1162
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:08,880
Speaker 2: golf is the Atlantic City Shore area. Atlantic City Country

1163
01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:12,840
Speaker 2: Club is a dynamite course. Saturday morning during the summer,

1164
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:16,760
Speaker 2: they're probably getting easily into the three figures. But again,

1165
01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:18,640
Speaker 2: if you're willing to play it in the afternoon on

1166
01:05:18,680 --> 01:05:22,280
Speaker 2: a random Tuesday, you can get an afternoon rate for

1167
01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:25,360
Speaker 2: for well under one hundred dollars. There's a Twisted Dune

1168
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:28,840
Speaker 2: is a really enjoyable course down there. Same thing. So

1169
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:31,920
Speaker 2: as long as you're flexible with with your schedule and

1170
01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:34,400
Speaker 2: when you're willing to play there, there are certainly good

1171
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:36,800
Speaker 2: deals out there that you have cool.

1172
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:39,840
Speaker 1: So you know, I want to be conscious of your time.

1173
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:43,440
Speaker 1: It's very late now on the East Coast. Before we

1174
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:45,560
Speaker 1: get you out of here, I'm just gonna hit you

1175
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:53,959
Speaker 1: with some quick hinder questions. All right, favorite architect, Yeah,

1176
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:58,000
Speaker 1: it's a favorite architect.

1177
01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:00,840
Speaker 2: Favorite architects Seev McDonald and.

1178
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:05,560
Speaker 1: Definitely Okay, if you had to play one golf course

1179
01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:08,400
Speaker 1: the rest of your life, which course would it be?

1180
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:11,280
Speaker 2: National Golf Wins.

1181
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:14,120
Speaker 1: All right, that's a good That's number one on my

1182
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:19,320
Speaker 1: list of places to go see. So with that, what

1183
01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:23,120
Speaker 1: are the three courses you're most excited to see in

1184
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:24,280
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen.

1185
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:33,720
Speaker 2: Cypress Point Is is definitely the top on that list.

1186
01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:36,479
Speaker 2: I think I want to throw pine Valley in there,

1187
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:40,760
Speaker 2: but I'm not really sure about that given the unfortunate

1188
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:43,160
Speaker 2: history that I've had with it. So let's let's, you know,

1189
01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:46,280
Speaker 2: let's leak that one out for now. We'll say Cypress Point,

1190
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:48,400
Speaker 2: will say sand Hills will say.

1191
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:52,919
Speaker 1: Come on, Okay. Those are three strong choices, and then

1192
01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:57,400
Speaker 1: we'll go with what was the place that blew your

1193
01:06:57,440 --> 01:07:02,520
Speaker 1: socks off most and twenty six meaning that I had,

1194
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:05,480
Speaker 1: you know, you didn't have any expectations going in and

1195
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:07,080
Speaker 1: you walked out of there like wow.

1196
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:12,680
Speaker 2: That would either be Glenn's Falls up in New York,

1197
01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:20,000
Speaker 2: Orchard Lake outside of Detroit, which absolutely blew me away.

1198
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:23,840
Speaker 2: Or I don't cheating by giving you multiple answers here,

1199
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:28,000
Speaker 2: but or it would be Black Sheep outside of Chicago,

1200
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:32,200
Speaker 2: which I played. I actually stumbled out that way because

1201
01:07:32,200 --> 01:07:34,320
Speaker 2: I had a little extra time after a morning round

1202
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:38,280
Speaker 2: and I had a choice to either go back to

1203
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:41,320
Speaker 2: the conference that I was out there for or go

1204
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:44,640
Speaker 2: see Black Sheep. Figured what the heck went out played

1205
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:47,600
Speaker 2: Black Sheep played all twenty seven holes one afternoon in

1206
01:07:47,720 --> 01:07:51,440
Speaker 2: high winds, and absolutely loved the place. I thought it

1207
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:54,720
Speaker 2: was just incredibly fun modern dame man.

1208
01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:57,439
Speaker 1: That's what I haven't gotten out there, and I'm kind

1209
01:07:57,440 --> 01:07:58,520
Speaker 1: of jealous now.

1210
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:02,480
Speaker 2: Of nowhere. Like I said, it was not on my

1211
01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:04,760
Speaker 2: list of places to see. It was not something I

1212
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:08,400
Speaker 2: was planning to do. It was literally a spur of

1213
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:12,360
Speaker 2: the moment decision, and man, what a good decision. Really

1214
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:16,479
Speaker 2: knock my focks off is a perfect description. I had

1215
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:19,880
Speaker 2: a blast. It's just it's golf like it's supposed to

1216
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:24,080
Speaker 2: be fun. Uh, you know, deep features you don't see

1217
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:28,519
Speaker 2: anywhere else. Very unique design, especially given the property they had. Uh,

1218
01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:31,080
Speaker 2: just fantastic in every way. Great.

1219
01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:31,599
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1220
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:34,640
Speaker 1: The architect there, David Esler, might be one of the

1221
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:37,559
Speaker 1: best modern architects that nobody knows about.

1222
01:08:39,479 --> 01:08:41,519
Speaker 2: I agree. I didn't know about him until I saw

1223
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:43,519
Speaker 2: a black sheet, but he is certainly a guy who

1224
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:44,320
Speaker 2: I look for now.

1225
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:47,360
Speaker 1: He did all the bunkering at Ravslow too. He did

1226
01:08:47,400 --> 01:08:48,439
Speaker 1: a restoration there.

1227
01:08:50,200 --> 01:08:54,479
Speaker 2: He did a restoration at the Olympia Fields, didn't he he?

1228
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:59,040
Speaker 1: I know he did glen View Club. I'm not sure

1229
01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:02,559
Speaker 1: about Olympia Field Eld. But he did glen View Club,

1230
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:06,120
Speaker 1: which is a flynn up in on the North Shore.

1231
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:09,920
Speaker 1: And I want to say he did Skokie too. I'm

1232
01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:12,880
Speaker 1: not positive about it, but he did, he has he

1233
01:09:12,920 --> 01:09:15,720
Speaker 1: has a couple of good projects. I mean that, and

1234
01:09:15,760 --> 01:09:21,200
Speaker 1: I've heard great things about Black Sheep. So and then uh,

1235
01:09:21,280 --> 01:09:24,840
Speaker 1: all right, last question. It's a it's a tough one.

1236
01:09:25,120 --> 01:09:30,479
Speaker 1: Best golf city or metro area golf metro area in America.

1237
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:33,160
Speaker 1: So the way we're going to define this is you

1238
01:09:33,280 --> 01:09:38,960
Speaker 1: have within an hour driving of the city center.

1239
01:09:40,400 --> 01:09:42,880
Speaker 2: Great question, and I like the way you defined it

1240
01:09:42,920 --> 01:09:48,760
Speaker 2: because that definition can really alter the reasoning here. So

1241
01:09:48,840 --> 01:09:51,160
Speaker 2: anyway within an our of the metro center, to me,

1242
01:09:51,479 --> 01:09:59,120
Speaker 2: it's it comes down to uh, Philly, New York, Boston, Chicago,

1243
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:03,439
Speaker 2: l and San Francisco. Those are the six contenders, right.

1244
01:10:04,160 --> 01:10:07,840
Speaker 2: I think you probably have to eliminate San fran as

1245
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:10,320
Speaker 2: good as the golf out there is, because an hour

1246
01:10:10,400 --> 01:10:13,759
Speaker 2: doesn't get you all the way down to Monterey. You know,

1247
01:10:13,880 --> 01:10:17,760
Speaker 2: you capture Hastiefo there. But there are a lot of

1248
01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:20,000
Speaker 2: great courses within that hour, but I don't think it

1249
01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:22,840
Speaker 2: quite matches up to the others. Same thing with La.

1250
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:24,960
Speaker 2: As great as the high end courses are in LA,

1251
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:27,959
Speaker 2: some of the ones that I really like are outside

1252
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:31,080
Speaker 2: that hour radius. So you just sheer numbers game. You

1253
01:10:31,200 --> 01:10:33,880
Speaker 2: just don't have enough super high end courses for LA

1254
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:38,800
Speaker 2: to be in the conversation. So with your definition of mind,

1255
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:44,560
Speaker 2: I think it's a really close fight between Boston, Chicago,

1256
01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:49,599
Speaker 2: and Philly. And because I can't really make the decision

1257
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:53,559
Speaker 2: between those three, I'll go with Philly just because it's

1258
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:56,240
Speaker 2: my hometown. The manager a lot of great courses within

1259
01:10:56,240 --> 01:10:59,360
Speaker 2: an hour downtown Chicago, and I'll say a Boston. I mean,

1260
01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:05,759
Speaker 2: you got myopiat Essex, Salem, It Hans, It, the two moderns,

1261
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:09,080
Speaker 2: a Old Sandwich, and Boston Golf Club, and you got

1262
01:11:09,080 --> 01:11:10,439
Speaker 2: all the way out on the cape that I think

1263
01:11:10,479 --> 01:11:14,680
Speaker 2: you're reaching an hour place like Eastward Hoe. You got Whiteonville.

1264
01:11:15,160 --> 01:11:18,720
Speaker 2: You know a sport. It's amazing how many great golf

1265
01:11:18,760 --> 01:11:21,679
Speaker 2: we're star balls. But I literally Boston because you're playing

1266
01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:25,000
Speaker 2: seasons shorter. So in the end, it's Philly wrote to Chicago.

1267
01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:27,639
Speaker 2: I'm a Philly guy. I know you're a Chicago guy,

1268
01:11:27,880 --> 01:11:30,240
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna go with Philly. I'm pretty sure you're

1269
01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:31,200
Speaker 2: gonna say Chicago.

1270
01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:36,960
Speaker 1: Somebody I went out. I went out to Philly. I

1271
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:42,120
Speaker 1: had two golf trips out there, and a Philly's at

1272
01:11:42,120 --> 01:11:47,160
Speaker 1: Philly in my mind takes the cake. I Uh, it's

1273
01:11:47,200 --> 01:11:50,760
Speaker 1: the depth at Philly is just so much stronger than

1274
01:11:51,080 --> 01:11:54,599
Speaker 1: I think Chicago. Like a perfect example is White Marsh Valley,

1275
01:11:55,120 --> 01:11:59,200
Speaker 1: you know, like like that that. I mean, Chicago's really

1276
01:11:59,200 --> 01:12:04,080
Speaker 1: good though, and New York's eliminated because Long Island is

1277
01:12:04,160 --> 01:12:07,280
Speaker 1: too far from the city center, so exactly.

1278
01:12:07,360 --> 01:12:10,120
Speaker 2: And look, there's still a boatload of great golf within

1279
01:12:10,160 --> 01:12:13,839
Speaker 2: an hour of downtown New York. But I just without

1280
01:12:13,960 --> 01:12:17,880
Speaker 2: those those Southampton courses and the courses further out on

1281
01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:21,360
Speaker 2: Long Island, you just you know, it's close. But if

1282
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:24,920
Speaker 2: if you think those away from New York again, I

1283
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:27,559
Speaker 2: just don't think it can compete on depth Philly. At

1284
01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:31,160
Speaker 2: the high end, obviously we have. You got Marrion, Pine Valley,

1285
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:35,599
Speaker 2: Iron and Ink Gulf Mills. The high end is here.

1286
01:12:35,479 --> 01:12:37,120
Speaker 1: Is really really Philly Cricket.

1287
01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:40,640
Speaker 2: Philly Cricket is another great one.

1288
01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:44,920
Speaker 1: How is there are there fifty courses better than Philly

1289
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:50,080
Speaker 1: Cricket Club. I'm sorry you are there fifty courses in

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01:12:50,160 --> 01:12:52,400
Speaker 1: America that are better than Philly Cricket Club?

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01:12:53,800 --> 01:12:56,719
Speaker 2: If you're asking me that question, I'd be hard pressed

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01:12:56,720 --> 01:13:01,080
Speaker 2: to give you fifty, especially now the Foster restoration is done.

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01:13:01,200 --> 01:13:05,080
Speaker 2: Philly Cricket Club is a phenomenal golf course now, and

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01:13:05,160 --> 01:13:08,760
Speaker 2: I'm a big killing ass fan, and what Foster did

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01:13:08,800 --> 01:13:11,160
Speaker 2: there to bring that killing hands back out of that

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01:13:11,200 --> 01:13:16,600
Speaker 2: golf course is just tremendous. That that place is absolutely

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01:13:16,680 --> 01:13:17,719
Speaker 2: outstanding right now.

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01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:22,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's when I realized how good Philly

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01:13:22,040 --> 01:13:25,120
Speaker 1: golf was was when, of course I played that, I

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01:13:25,240 --> 01:13:28,120
Speaker 1: barely you know, I had heard about it from you know,

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01:13:28,240 --> 01:13:34,200
Speaker 1: the senior event and the club pro event out there.

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01:13:34,520 --> 01:13:36,960
Speaker 1: But then I get out there and I'm trying to think.

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01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:39,479
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, if this is in Chicago, it's

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01:13:39,920 --> 01:13:43,759
Speaker 1: it's probably top three golf course in Chicago, and here,

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01:13:44,080 --> 01:13:46,880
Speaker 1: you know, they have it between you know, five and seven.

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01:13:47,080 --> 01:13:51,040
Speaker 1: That being said, rankings are a load of crap since

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01:13:51,560 --> 01:13:54,680
Speaker 1: short Akers is ranked the number seven course in Chicago

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01:13:54,920 --> 01:13:56,960
Speaker 1: and yeah.

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01:13:57,320 --> 01:14:00,040
Speaker 2: Which is really all you need to know about the

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01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:04,280
Speaker 2: ranking systems, because that's about as crazy as it gets.

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01:14:04,880 --> 01:14:07,240
Speaker 2: Shore Acres is one of my favorite places on earth.

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01:14:08,040 --> 01:14:12,240
Speaker 1: There's there's there's not a place that I've found better.

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01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:15,439
Speaker 1: So it's, uh, we'll see this summer. After this summer,

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01:14:15,439 --> 01:14:18,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna play a lot of great courses, but we'll

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01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:21,040
Speaker 1: see if it still stands up. But there's not many

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01:14:21,080 --> 01:14:23,560
Speaker 1: places that there's a better, you know, three and a

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01:14:23,600 --> 01:14:26,599
Speaker 1: half hour walk around than short acres in the world.

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01:14:27,760 --> 01:14:29,640
Speaker 2: I could not agree with you more. That place is

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01:14:29,720 --> 01:14:31,120
Speaker 2: just lovely in every respect.

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01:14:31,360 --> 01:14:35,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, John, really appreciate the time, and uh,

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01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:38,400
Speaker 1: you know, for those of you that don't know, it's

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01:14:38,520 --> 01:14:42,599
Speaker 1: it's almost midnight recording this in in Philly, so he's

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01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:47,519
Speaker 1: staying up late for us. I'll I appreciate the time,

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01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:52,640
Speaker 1: and I'll link John's Twitter and Instagram handles in the

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01:14:53,600 --> 01:14:57,080
Speaker 1: podcast posts so you guys can go on and follow

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01:14:57,160 --> 01:15:00,800
Speaker 1: him if you don't already. Thanks a lot, John, now

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01:15:00,840 --> 01:15:01,519
Speaker 1: any thank you.

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01:15:01,680 --> 01:15:04,240
Speaker 2: I appreciate it. And I always love talking golf with

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01:15:04,280 --> 01:15:06,240
Speaker 2: a fellow golf month, So anytime,