WEBVTT - Fire Drill 080: The New World Order (w/ Geoff Ogilvy) 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:07.120 Who's to say that the live thing wasn't. Yes, s 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:11.200 a out chessing, like playing chess and out chessing the 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:13.520 PGA tour, inventing a product that he knows is going 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:17.040 to fail, but it's good enough to create disruption and 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:22.759 to buy the seat at the table, Daughts in my head. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:27.600 Can't get him, jh not the thing what I'm thinking 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:33.720 about in my head. Can't get him, joh, not the 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:35.800 thing I'm thinking about. 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:47.080 Hello, this is Alan Schipnook back for another Fire Drill podcast, 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:49.879 delayed to be joined by Jeff Ogilvie, who is at 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:53.080 the Canadian Open up in Toronto, the center of the 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:55.760 storm of Jeff, what have these last couple of days 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:58.120 been like? Is the ground is shifted beneath the feet 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:02.360 of all the players and everyone on to word? H. 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:04.640 Yeah, it's been interesting. It's really only even one thing 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:08.840 people have been talking about. Obviously, we all wake up 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:12.640 yesterday reading about it, you know we didn't. Well now 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:17.200 we got a name out from the tour telling us 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:19.959 about what the deal is. Yeah, and we had the 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:23.360 playmating last not, which was an interesting experience. Those playmintings 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:26.240 are always fun when I introduce something that perhaps not 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:32.640 every pler on tour agrees with. And yeah, sold, anyone's 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:35.000 been talking about today on the range too. It's a 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:36.600 big story, I guess. 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:41.280 Oh, monumental. Well take us inside the room because the 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:44.959 player meeting is sort of this mythical thing that you know, 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:48.920 there's always reports that leak out, but obviously there's no press, 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:52.400 there's no outsiders. But just so we can picture where 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:54.920 was this hell, how is the room configured? Who's up 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:57.200 in front besides Jay, like just set the scene for it. 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:02.480 Well, it's sin where we have our player dining area 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:06.240 this week, which is a which varies from tournament to tournament, 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:07.640 but this this week it happens to be a really 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:12.440 big room they didn't have. Sometimes they have us lined 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:15.760 up in they line up chairs and stuff, but this 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:17.960 time there's enough tables and enough for everyone was just 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:22.320 sitting at tables and there's high tops and six tops 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:26.359 and lots of different tables around. And Jay was in there. 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:31.280 A few of the player advisory not player advisory, player liaison. 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:33.240 There's like that the department that sort of is our 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:37.600 conduit between the players and Jay. There's a few of 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:42.519 those guys in there. Any Padzer was there who's sort 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:45.280 of right up there, pretty high powerful man in the 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:48.000 PJA tour, and j just stood up at the mic 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:50.680 and pretty much just walked in and started going through it. 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:53.320 Everyone was pretty keen to hear what he had to say. 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:57.480 And it was interesting, I mean, it was getting it 0:02:57.520 --> 0:02:59.800 got quite it got a little bit tense, I guess 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:06.400 because Jay couldn't really I don't know any more than 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:10.160 anybody else knows. Really, we didn't. I don't think learn 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:12.640 anything in the room that you that everybody doesn't know, 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:17.000 mostly because I think this story I feel like it 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:19.880 was going to I think they got win that it 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:21.880 might have been getting leaked before they wanted it to 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:25.040 get leaked. So they got in front of it, and 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:27.280 they came and told the players, which was the right 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:32.560 thing to do, sort of what they could tell us, 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:37.280 And he couldn't really tell us that much. No real deal. 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:40.280 Details just kept going on. That there's a sort of 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:43.080 a is it a non binding agreement? Is that the 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:48.080 term which is basically sort of an agreement in good 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:50.600 faith to sort of negotiate to this endpoint that they 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:52.240 both kind of want to get to. But this is 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:55.240 clearly a really really complicated thing and we're right in 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:57.600 the middle of the negotiation, so I don't think a 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:00.240 whole lot of information or details could come to us 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:03.840 because it might sort of mess that up, you know. 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:06.640 But he just sort of gave us the framework and 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:09.760 sort of how this will work if this all turns out. 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:14.240 So after that he did a kind of a video 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:17.680 press conference with select media folks. I was surprisingly I 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:19.479 was invited, but they didn't call upon me, which is 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:24.839 typical of the tour there. But anyway, they and I've 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:27.200 never seen a man look so defeated as jaym onahan. 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:30.440 He was slumped in his chair, his voice was hoarse, 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:33.120 and you know, he'd just gotten beaten up in the 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:37.360 player meeting he had and it's been been a rough 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:40.880 day on the guy. And I actually felt a little 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:44.880 tinge of sympathy for him. What kind of energy did 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:46.240 he project in front of the players. 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:51.040 He projected the energy that a leader should. He was 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:55.320 very he didn't get rattled. I mean, he got a 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:58.680 lot of stuff thrown at him the players. I think 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:01.400 that the starting point that a lot of players walked 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:03.880 into the room was well, these live players are just 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:06.120 going to come back now. How fair is that? You know? 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:07.840 And you said that they weren't going to come back. 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:13.640 But so I think a lot of players started off 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:16.080 wanting to disagree with whatever he said before they even 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:21.480 heard anything you said, and they think, no offense to 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:23.240 my peers. But I think a lot of guys couldn't 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:25.400 get past that. So I didn't really hear what was 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:28.960 going on a little bit. But he got hit pretty 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:30.560 hard and he was pretty defeated at the end. It 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:34.400 must be hard to have in his mind, and actually 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:38.440 in my mind too, if this works out like it 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:42.600 looks like it might, this is probably a good deal. 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:47.440 And he's he wasn't in the position to be able 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:49.280 to sort of tell us any details because there aren't 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:52.599 really any details yet, and he's I guess the feeling 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:55.560 would be he's been working really really hard to help us, 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:58.320 and all we do is tell him, no, you're wrong. 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:01.960 This isn't very very good. So it's a tough day 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:05.440 to be a leader. But that's the role. I mean, 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:07.480 it's heavy as the head that wears the crown, right, 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:08.960 I mean, it's a tough role to be And I 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:13.680 really was very glad that I wasn't ja yesterday. Regardless 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:17.800 of where you sit on how this what this deal 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:20.560 is all about. It was it would have been a 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:22.040 tough day to be Jay, and he did a really 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:23.400 good job in there, but yeah, he would have been 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:27.360 pretty drained. I think after the whole thing, he took 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:31.040 it really well. He didn't get fired up. He just 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:35.400 he took all the complaints. He sort of he owned up. 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:38.520 He owned up to the Look, this is different from 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:42.320 the rhetoric a year ago. We didn't expect this to happen, 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:43.760 but this is just kind of where we're at and 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:48.280 please sort of I guess he was basically asking, have 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:51.760 a bit of faith. This thing will look better than 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:53.880 you think it'll look at the end when it's all 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:54.640 said and done. 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:57.640 I mean, on a very simple level, the commissioner's job 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:01.600 is to get the player's paid, and man has done 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:03.560 that in spectacular fashion. I mean, the guys on tour 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:05.840 a plane for eight nine million dollars. Now they're playing 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:08.159 for twenty and it's probably just going to go up 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:09.720 from here. Once they turned the spigot on with the 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:16.040 piff and you know, he the tour had written some 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:20.360 checks they couldn't cash. Like this, this arms race was unsustainable. 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:23.880 They put all their they put all their resources into 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:27.680 these elevated events and the the player Impact program. But 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:30.080 the sponsors were rebelling, they were starting to walk away. 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:34.200 That for Jay to say publicly that you know, they 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:37.000 were fully sponsored for next year is wishful thinking at best. 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:39.000 And so I think it was just that it was 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:42.600 an acknowledgement like we if we're going to fund the 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:44.880 tour at this new level, we can't do it with 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:46.840 the old model. We can't squeeze that much out of 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:51.320 these corporations. It's just it's impossible. And so you could 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:53.600 you could say it took some humility on his part 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:56.400 right to it on some level concede defeat, like we 0:07:56.480 --> 0:07:59.080 got into this, into this battle we couldn't win. This 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:01.280 is our way out, and the players are going to 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:04.480 keep getting paid and probably get get more extravagantly paid. 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:07.920 And I mean anything's on the table, whether that I mean, 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:10.120 the PIF could just put people on salary, right like 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:12.480 now that you're now that this there's this whole new 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:16.840 world order of golf and people have accepted that guaranteed 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:18.880 money is part of the sport like in every other sport, 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:20.800 Like why not just create a salary system. That's how 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:23.480 you could make Roy McElroy whole right, say, Okay, we'll 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:25.720 pay you forty million dollars at your salary. You have 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:29.440 to commit to eighteen events whatever, whatever the terms may be. Like, 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:32.680 is there any recognition among your peers, like, hey, like 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:36.080 this might actually work out great for us, Like, all 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:38.400 of a sudden, we have access to to this once 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:41.680 in a once in a lifetime windfall we thought we 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:44.080 missed out would live, but now we've got to live. Money, 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:46.480 you know, flowing through the PG tour, Like, isn't that 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:47.000 a good thing? 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:49.920 Well, I mean you said a couple of things there, 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:57.360 but like, firstly, yeah, I think the I don't think 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:01.400 the future was as rosy as some of the players 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:03.959 may have thought. I mean, like you said, this is 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:09.160 a bit of an arms race to keep up, and 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:12.480 there's a recession, there's some stuff going on. This is 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:14.800 a lot of money that they're trying to generate, and 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:16.840 as you say, you sort of there's only a certain 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:18.679 amount of corporations that can come up with that sort 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:23.760 of money in the US. So I think what this 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:27.640 is what they're There's two sides to it. One, I 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:32.600 think they've kind of wanted to end the litigation I 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:36.600 don't know if that's a tactic of the piff side 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:39.920 of the argument, but they can sort of keep things 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:41.560 in court as long as they want. The longer it 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:43.719 stays there, they can just basically money you out of 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:46.559 it by like you do all your money on legal fees, 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:51.199 and that regardless of what was going to come out 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:53.640 of that lawsuit, you sit in the courts for five 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:56.520 or six years, you spend hundreds of millions of dollars 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:59.440 defending the case that you probably know you're going to win, maybe, 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:03.680 but that does a lot of damage. I mean, hundreds 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:06.360 of millions of dollars means a lot to like anybody, right, 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:10.320 and it's just a waste of time arguing and like 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:12.959 just spending all this money and makes it hard to 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:15.840 go forward. And to the other side, I'm of the opinion, 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:19.880 like you said, that this is a really this is 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:23.760 a this is if the upside, if it works out 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:27.040 like it could, I think this is an incredible deal. 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:30.600 This could go down as one of the best deals ever, 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:35.240 you know what I mean. It's Jay, what what has argued, 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:37.880 what is arguably going to happen is potentially the PGA 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:40.640 Tour is going to control golf and the PIFF is 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:46.560 going to pay for it, which is a stronger position 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:53.640 than we were in two days ago. The the dp 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:55.560 World Tour and the Live is going to kind of 0:10:55.600 --> 0:11:02.120 come under the governance of the PGA Tour, and the 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:05.920 PIFF is going to help out financially. I think, like 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:07.960 you say, the potential, I don't think Jay would have 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:11.360 gone into anything like this. Like you said, his job 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:17.320 is to make the golfers more money, more opportunities, more money, 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:20.320 and this seems like the sort of deal that that 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:23.080 that's going to be there. It's a bit of a stretch. 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:28.040 I think there's a there's a strong there's a there's 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:30.400 a strong feeling at Ponto Vedra. I think to keep 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:33.880 the PGA to a model looking basically like the PGA 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:37.080 Tour looks. There's, like you said, there's a lot of legacy, 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:41.199 there's sort of it's in a lot of ways a meritocracy. 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:44.240 If you play well, you get paid. It's always been 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:46.480 that way. I don't think they will upset sort of 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:49.520 that main product, the PGA Tour. I don't think the 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:55.320 PGA Tour really look that different going forward, albeit with 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.880 probably bigger persons. I think it's a step too far 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:01.200 to go to the I think gets reaching to say 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:03.079 we'll all end up on salary. I mean, maybe one 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:06.920 day we will, But I think there's it's going to 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:10.880 create opportunity. As I said, if it turns out, we 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:13.040 don't know much at the moment, really, we just sort 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:14.960 of know about a deal in principle if you like, 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:19.520 But it could create an incredible opportunity to spread this 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:23.040 sort of the PGA to a brand, if you like, 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:27.079 which they've proven the PGA two are they're the best 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:29.520 at running golf tournaments. You know, they're the best at 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:31.400 doing this. And they've been doing it for a really 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:32.719 long time. And it goes all the way back to 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:35.280 Arnold Palmer and Dean Beaman and Jack Nicklass and they've 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:39.360 had a long time to get good at running golf tournaments. 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:42.520 I've played golf tournaments all the way around the world. 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:44.600 The PGA tour tournaments are the best. They're the best 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:47.720 to play in. They're the best, the most organized. You 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:49.240 know that you got a lot of PGA, You got 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:54.160 a lot of golf tournaments. They're they're great tournaments. It's 0:12:54.760 --> 0:13:00.040 it's just going to create it's gonna if there's the 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:01.840 sensible people in the room, if you like, or the 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:04.679 experience is going to be steering the ship a little bit, 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:08.200 and they're going to sort of have, as I said, 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:11.040 that sort of future proofing or that sort of knowledge 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:13.599 that you know, we can sort of have some aspirational 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:15.360 goals here because we know the funds are going to 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:16.920 be there. We don't have to go year to year 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:19.319 and based on how the economy is or every ten 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:22.000 years how the TV deal is going to be. And 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:26.720 it's also opportunity to grow that sort of level of tournament, 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:29.280 the PGA to a level of tournament, and to spread 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:31.839 it around the world. I mean, the PGA Tour as 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:34.440 we know it will probably, as I said, look pretty similar, 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:36.959 but there might be all sorts of opportunity outside of 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:42.160 the US to create incredible stuff. And that's instead of 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:44.520 now selling to a market of three hundred million people 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:46.319 and maybe there's a bunch of people outside the US 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:48.240 who watch the PGA Tour, but now you're actually going 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:51.760 to be able to take this product around the world 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:55.480 and have the sort of freedom and reach and spread 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:59.120 to sort of maybe do some really special stuff. I 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:02.400 mean I said, we were sort of speculating here, but 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:07.920 I think it's potentially if the goods the good side 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:12.360 of this deal is it's gonna grow the game, which 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:14.600 is the phrase it gets overused, but it really could 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:17.839 sort of spread that sort of that high level sort 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:22.680 of elegant so whatever you the Pagata brings to golf 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:25.360 tournaments and take it around the world, and I think 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:26.040 that's really cool. 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:30.680 Yeah, I do want to talk about what a unified 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:32.920 global schedule could look at. But before we leave the 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:36.840 Monahan stuff, I mean, he may have salvaged a good deal, 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:39.360 but it came at a personal cost for him. He's 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:40.440 had to eat a lot of shit here in the 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:45.440 last few days. There's definitely some hard feelings. It's you know, 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:48.440 there exchange that Rory McElroy had with Grayson Murray in 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:53.480 the meeting has been reported where you know, Murray shouted 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:55.520 something about mon Hand like we can't trust you, we 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:59.520 don't believe you, and Rory said, you know, you play better, Grayson, 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:01.520 which is act interesting in the context of you know, 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:05.360 it sounds like he's defending mine hand and on that level, 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:09.120 but you know, certainly then Rory got up and met 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:12.200 reporters and he you know, he looked a little dark, 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:15.200 like I think Rory was an idealist, you know, and 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:16.800 he thought he was fighting a good fight and the 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:18.720 money guys came in and just sawd them out. And 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:21.360 it's kind of a hard lesson for Rory how things 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:24.080 work in the real world. But what was what was 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:26.600 your impressions of how Rory handled himself in the meeting 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:29.160 and do you have any insight into where his head 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:29.800 is right now? 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:39.400 I actually think I don't agree with that that I feel. 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.560 I feel like I would if I was Rory. Shane 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:44.640 Lowry was there too, there was a few players who 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:46.800 were sort of would have been those guys who were 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:54.120 really could have got big checks. I don't think he'd 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:56.960 be dark at all. I actually think it's almost vindication 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:04.440 because I stayed on the right side of things, and 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:08.040 the right side of things. You can view this anyway. 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:10.800 I view this as the PGA Tour is kind of 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:13.480 winning this one. You know a lot of people are 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:16.280 viewing it like they've caved in and they've like kind 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:17.720 of lost this one. But I view it as they 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:21.840 win because the PGA two is going to have control, 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:28.320 and that's better for Rory McCord. That's better for the 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:32.480 guys on the PGA two side. You know, if you 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:36.440 have a situation where if j is pulling the strings, 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:39.440 if JA is pulling the strings, say if Jay is 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:42.800 ends up being the boss of the live tour, well 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:45.840 that's certainly better for the players on the PGA tour 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:49.640 side of things. Certainly. I can't see any other side 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:57.000 to that. So I don't know. I think, I don't know. 0:16:57.120 --> 0:16:59.240 I can't go into anyone else's heads. I thought Rory 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:01.680 did really well. It was a tough meeting to be 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:04.240 in because there was a lot of emotion from a 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:09.520 lot of players. It was not really tense. It was 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:13.399 a little bit tense, but Rory did okay. People were 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:16.679 speaking up and I understand all sides of the argument. 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:21.120 Shane did a really good job. Shane was great in there. 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:23.600 What did Jane see. 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:26.600 Oh, he just said, let's all keep a level head. 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:33.000 Let's we're playing, We're at the RBC Canadian Open, let's 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:35.040 not all make a big drama about this, Let's keep 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:36.919 the attention this week on the Canadian Open, and like 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:40.360 he was really sort of classy about it. We'll see 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:42.440 what happens going forward sort of thing. And that's kind 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:43.919 of how I came out of it, but we didn't. 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:47.960 We learned obviously the big news, but we don't know 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:49.399 any of the details yet and what it's going to 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:51.359 look like. To be honest, I don't think Jane, like 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:53.680 Piff and I don't think they know the details yet either. 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:55.600 I mean, that's why we're sort of not having any 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:57.960 details because most of this stuff hasn't been fleshed out. 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:02.680 So yeah, I'd rather take the long view and look 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:07.120 at things like they're going to work out, okay. I mean, 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:10.359 I've been going to play meetings for twenty years and 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:13.960 they're often when there's a change thrown out be it. 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:17.320 The one of the big ones was when they introduced 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:19.159 the FedEx Cup. We're going to end the normal schedule 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:20.600 and we're going to have playoffs and all this sort 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:22.600 of stuff. There was a lot of grumpy golfers saying, 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:26.080 this is not golf silly. That turned out great. I 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:27.719 mean it might not turn out perfect and maybe not 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:29.600 like the NFL playoffs or anything like that, but like 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:34.359 we have more big money tournaments. It's just kept getting bigger. 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:37.920 It's the PGA to it. It generally works out better 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:40.280 for the players. We've played for more money every single year, 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:45.239 there's been more opportunity, good stuff. So I sort of 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:48.679 go into those meetings thinking I might not agree with 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:51.919 everything that they say, but generally it works out. So 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:54.080 I was kind of having that view and trying to 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:56.320 listen to the good sides of this and not the 0:18:56.359 --> 0:19:01.919 other side of it. And I think you could you 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:04.320 could have taken the meeting either way. I think, you know, 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:07.159 that was so nonspecific. You know, there was the general 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:08.640 this is what we're going to do, and then there 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:14.120 was lots of non specifics, and I I think it's 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:17.719 often telling in those players meetings where players sort of 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:23.879 their moods often sort of are a window to where 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:26.280 they think their game's at and where their futures at 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:28.640 a little bit, you know, because if you think your 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:30.720 game is great, but the guy, the guys who think 0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:33.280 their games are great and they really back themselves for 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:36.280 the future generally are pretty quiet and kind of like 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:38.320 what's being said. The guys who sort of maybe are 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:40.600 a bit nervous about their golf in the future, they 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:43.880 tend to like don't like to upset the status quo, 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:45.639 and they don't like change because they're sort of like, 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:47.159 let's just skip it how it is, because it's kind 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:51.400 of okay right now, they're they're interesting times. I said, 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:53.359 this is a really kind of a weird situation because 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:55.640 normally when the tour comes to us at a player meeting, 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:58.879 it's a fully fleshed out, fully decided this is going 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:02.080 to happen. They have power points and colorful graphs and 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:03.639 this is how much money you're going to make, and 0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:05.119 this is how many tournaments you're going to get to 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:06.600 play in, and it's all going to be wonderful, and 0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:10.200 we all get convinced by the facts on the board. 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:14.240 There weren't really any facts or specifics that we learned, 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:17.520 So it's kind of a leap of faith from all 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:20.160 the players that we have to kind of trust our leader. 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:26.200 And to be fair, they haven't acted very trustworthy, you know, 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:28.640 but it's been a really tumultuous time. I then, would 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:30.960 you like to be I wouldn't like to be steering 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:33.960 the ship, Like we can all sit up and judge 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:36.440 how leaders, how these leaders run this thing, but we don't. 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:38.240 We're not privy to a whole lot of this stuff. 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:44.480 And something had to be done, like something had to happen, right. 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:47.600 If this is the right answer, I don't know, but 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:53.680 it's it's an interesting time. They're definitely entertaining these play meetings. 0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:54.400 They're quite fun. 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:58.600 What were some other memorable moments or funny things ever said? 0:20:58.640 --> 0:20:59.560 Can you share anything else? 0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:05.000 I'm not that's the general spirit is The general spirit 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:08.160 was we don't truy Why should we believe anything you say? 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:10.560 We don't trust you, and you're a bit of a hypocrite. 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:14.320 That was kind of the general spirit. I'm not going 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:18.399 to drop it any that he said he owned the hypocrity. 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:23.520 He owned the hypocrisy. He owned A says, yeah, I 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:27.399 can see that, and that's a fair that's fair, and 0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:33.160 it is fair. But this landscape has like Riviera, I say, 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:37.119 from Riviera in twenty two to now isn't very long, really. 0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:41.200 I mean, this has been a very fluid moving situation 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:47.280 with a lot of complexity. You know, there's the there's 0:21:47.280 --> 0:21:49.960 the money side of things, and there's the players jumping, 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:53.760 and then there's the politics of the whole thing. And 0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:56.280 this is a very complex issue to navigate. But as 0:21:56.320 --> 0:22:00.840