1
00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:04,960
Speaker 1: Who's that knocking at the door. It's all your friends.

2
00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:07,960
Speaker 1: You've filthy horse, your husband's gone, and we've got books

3
00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:11,680
Speaker 1: and a bottle of wine to kill. It's Hollywood, it's books,

4
00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:15,360
Speaker 1: it's gossip. I'm sure it's memoir. It's Martini.

5
00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:22,200
Speaker 2: Celebrity poof Club. To read it while it's hot. Celebrity

6
00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:24,320
Speaker 2: poof Club, Tell your secrets.

7
00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:29,200
Speaker 1: We won't talk celebrity books. No boys are a loud

8
00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:34,760
Speaker 1: Celet say it loud and cloud Celebrity book Club.

9
00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:37,279
Speaker 2: Buzz me in. I brought the queer vow.

10
00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:42,120
Speaker 1: Hey, hey, best friend, how are you on this beautiful

11
00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:46,440
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving week here in the United States of America?

12
00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,040
Speaker 2: Oh, all salute to that? You know what all salute

13
00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:57,080
Speaker 2: to today is blackout Wednesday. It's the fucking drunkest day

14
00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:59,200
Speaker 2: of the year when you go to the bath with

15
00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,160
Speaker 2: all your old friends and see all the exes, the

16
00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:05,800
Speaker 2: girls you never got with, and you do shots and.

17
00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, so to all of you out there seeing the

18
00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,560
Speaker 1: one that got away who's now totally old and fat,

19
00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:13,880
Speaker 1: and you're feeling awesome because you're fanning. You have an

20
00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:14,920
Speaker 1: amazing career.

21
00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're coming on to your small town that's

22
00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,440
Speaker 2: actually like quaint and beautiful but still has like an

23
00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:25,399
Speaker 2: iconic rough dive bar. And you walk in you're in

24
00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:27,200
Speaker 2: a big cowl neck sweater.

25
00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,360
Speaker 1: And then there's that guy that you always overlooked in

26
00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:32,680
Speaker 1: high school because like he was a genera, but like

27
00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:36,800
Speaker 1: now he runs like a local business that's like masculine

28
00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,200
Speaker 1: but artisanal, that's just like large scaled landscaping and like

29
00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,560
Speaker 1: urban design for just like progressive city parks.

30
00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:47,360
Speaker 2: Wait, yes, this works because it's like your parents are like, oh, Liz,

31
00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:51,480
Speaker 2: that's your name. We're thinking of like redoing instead of

32
00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:55,000
Speaker 2: doing the normal you know, roses and gourds that we

33
00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,400
Speaker 2: normally do, we're gonna put in a sustainable rock garden.

34
00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,120
Speaker 2: And then he comes over to do your parents yard

35
00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:02,360
Speaker 2: and you're like Chris.

36
00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:03,960
Speaker 1: Right, And then you're like, wait a minute, you were

37
00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,120
Speaker 1: the kind of dorky guy I ignored at the bar

38
00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,360
Speaker 1: reunion last night, Like you actually have this like really

39
00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:12,320
Speaker 1: interesting sustainable business that's local.

40
00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,080
Speaker 2: And he brings you a coffee because you're so hungover,

41
00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,560
Speaker 2: and it's like a maple coffee from your best friend

42
00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,760
Speaker 2: who did stay home and open a second wave, third

43
00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:26,640
Speaker 2: fourth wave maple. So if third wave coffee is like

44
00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:29,960
Speaker 2: cold brew minimal lattes.

45
00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:33,160
Speaker 1: With like succulents. Yeah, and then like and then what.

46
00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,280
Speaker 2: I'm calling fourth wave and you may come for me

47
00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:40,359
Speaker 2: is like suburbanification of third wave. So they like are

48
00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:44,519
Speaker 2: taking the lattenus but then are making it like electric

49
00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,000
Speaker 2: caffeinated Macha purple syrup.

50
00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,440
Speaker 1: You're saying that it's getting like Christian Girl Autumn and

51
00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,480
Speaker 1: like cheesier and more live left love. It's the live

52
00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:57,040
Speaker 1: last love of vacation of third wave. Yeah, Okay, I'm

53
00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:00,800
Speaker 1: gonna agree with you, but I think it's almost a

54
00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:03,760
Speaker 1: devolution more than evolution, and it's just more like the

55
00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,240
Speaker 1: kind of everything congealing into the same mass market slop

56
00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,600
Speaker 1: where it's just like becoming this slightly Amazon prime aesthetic

57
00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:13,120
Speaker 1: where it's like there is a geodesic planter with a

58
00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,880
Speaker 1: succulent and also like a live laugh.

59
00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:17,280
Speaker 2: Love signed together.

60
00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:18,000
Speaker 1: You know what.

61
00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:22,280
Speaker 2: It almost reminds me of how Apple computers used to

62
00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,880
Speaker 2: be so cool and inventive, and now we all have

63
00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,000
Speaker 2: the same Apple Watch that we don't even know how

64
00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:29,600
Speaker 2: to use.

65
00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:35,360
Speaker 1: Right wow, mail on that had Mama, thank you for

66
00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:37,160
Speaker 1: bringing that app. You know, I read actually a lot

67
00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:38,640
Speaker 1: about that in this book that I happened to read

68
00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:40,560
Speaker 1: this morning and finish. Thank you very much.

69
00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:44,320
Speaker 2: Wow are you talking about the three hundred page memoir

70
00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:46,600
Speaker 2: by Say It with Me?

71
00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:52,280
Speaker 1: Steve was Niak also known as was at his amazing book,

72
00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,840
Speaker 1: I was computer geek to cult icon, how.

73
00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:57,680
Speaker 2: I invented the personal computer.

74
00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,160
Speaker 1: Co founded Apple and had fun doing it. There's an

75
00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,200
Speaker 1: awesome photo on the cover of him playing the Apple

76
00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:07,640
Speaker 1: to computer like a guitar. Wait, oh, wait, I have

77
00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:11,040
Speaker 1: a totally different cover. Oh you have the kind of

78
00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:12,480
Speaker 1: third wave cover.

79
00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:17,160
Speaker 2: It says like I in an Apple way WAWS and

80
00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:19,560
Speaker 2: then it's like the Apple colors of the.

81
00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,880
Speaker 1: Apple rainbow on the side. Yours is very like post iPhone,

82
00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:26,520
Speaker 1: like tech space, you know, when Apples started embracing this

83
00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:27,760
Speaker 1: kind of like minimalist space.

84
00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,719
Speaker 2: As I said, remember what Apple is. Wait, and yours

85
00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:32,159
Speaker 2: is like him being so kooky.

86
00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,200
Speaker 1: Mine is definitely more first wave. Mine is more central perk.

87
00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:37,760
Speaker 1: So it's this black and white photo of him looking

88
00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:39,240
Speaker 1: not like your father.

89
00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:44,560
Speaker 2: Lily, Oh my god, No, I was the similarities between

90
00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:47,760
Speaker 2: WAWS and like I mean, I think my dad was

91
00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,160
Speaker 2: just like a tech head and was always buying like

92
00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,360
Speaker 2: the new technology that failed, and this kind of like

93
00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,040
Speaker 2: I'm a nerdy kid and like all I want to

94
00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:02,479
Speaker 2: do is like reprogram like this Ham radio. Like, my

95
00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,600
Speaker 2: dad made a censor in his nineteen fifties home so

96
00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,680
Speaker 2: that he would know when his like father was like

97
00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,080
Speaker 2: coming to his room.

98
00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:17,440
Speaker 1: Really so he would stop masturbating depictures of old movie stars.

99
00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,960
Speaker 2: No, I feel like he was reading Archie comics by

100
00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,880
Speaker 2: like a small light and was like, uh oh, the

101
00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:25,760
Speaker 2: sensor went off, Dada is coming.

102
00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,240
Speaker 1: I actually once did that because I had gotten some

103
00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:31,200
Speaker 1: toy for Christmas that was like a weird robot that

104
00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,400
Speaker 1: like was sensor activated, and at some point I was

105
00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:38,320
Speaker 1: grounded for some reason. God knows what I'd done, you rasped,

106
00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:40,240
Speaker 1: But I wasn't allowed to play video games, which was

107
00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:43,320
Speaker 1: actually so rude, And so I set up this motion

108
00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,880
Speaker 1: sensor robot in the hallway so I would know when

109
00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:50,159
Speaker 1: my mom was coming into the like kitchen where the

110
00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,120
Speaker 1: wow was. So when I heard it like go off,

111
00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,160
Speaker 1: I would then like hide the controller and like run

112
00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:58,760
Speaker 1: and hide around the corner. She came in, and she

113
00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,440
Speaker 1: had no idea that I was secretly playing video games

114
00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:05,920
Speaker 1: all afternoon. Wait, wow, I know, so whah I was

115
00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:07,400
Speaker 1: really was.

116
00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,880
Speaker 2: But do you think she also like knew but was

117
00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,800
Speaker 2: kind of being like, haha, let you have this like.

118
00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:15,760
Speaker 1: Weird like she depended on because one time I wasn't

119
00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,719
Speaker 1: fastened or whatever, and then she was like so disappointed,

120
00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:22,560
Speaker 1: and I was kind of like, bitch, like you got played. Sorry,

121
00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:24,160
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna feel fucking guilty.

122
00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:26,600
Speaker 2: We also, do you just like hiding with your like

123
00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:27,480
Speaker 2: control being like.

124
00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,159
Speaker 1: Mah, yeah, I'm so pinking the brain.

125
00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:32,600
Speaker 2: No, which is so was And if you guys are

126
00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,480
Speaker 2: more kind of familiar with Steve.

127
00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,760
Speaker 1: Jobs, yeah, then get a fucking clue. There was another

128
00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:43,240
Speaker 1: man at the helm of Apple pouring secret ingredients into

129
00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:46,640
Speaker 1: that brew, that cauldron that became the world's first trillion

130
00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:47,480
Speaker 1: dollar company.

131
00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:51,320
Speaker 2: Apple was was like, and is he's alive? He is

132
00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:58,520
Speaker 2: like this shorter, kookier, nerdier, like furrier, just like guy

133
00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,240
Speaker 2: who basically him and Steve met. They went to the

134
00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:03,839
Speaker 2: same high school in California.

135
00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,240
Speaker 1: Even though was five years older and was already graduated

136
00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:08,880
Speaker 1: by the time he met Steve Jobs, and then was

137
00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:10,520
Speaker 1: just kind of hanging out with this high school student.

138
00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:12,680
Speaker 1: But he was like so autistic and nerdy and virginal

139
00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,640
Speaker 1: that it wasn't weird because like he was basically like

140
00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:17,520
Speaker 1: emotionally still like a high school student.

141
00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:20,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this book is like so cute and also

142
00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,080
Speaker 2: just like completely insane. It was just like all about

143
00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,880
Speaker 2: ram but like it's really written by a true nerd.

144
00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:30,360
Speaker 1: It is the most like positive hunky dory book. It's

145
00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,160
Speaker 1: ky running with Elvira's book where I was just like girl,

146
00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:37,120
Speaker 1: like wipe the fucking grin off your face for two seconds.

147
00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,880
Speaker 2: But even like stukier because even when in this book

148
00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,640
Speaker 2: he's like kind of talking about like the drama between

149
00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,640
Speaker 2: him and Steve Jobs, like he's just being like, well,

150
00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,040
Speaker 2: like sure Steve did actually hide from me that he

151
00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:55,320
Speaker 2: got a couple more thousand dollars for our first video game. Sure,

152
00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:59,480
Speaker 2: I was mad, but I moved on and we both

153
00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:00,960
Speaker 2: made a lot of money later.

154
00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:05,720
Speaker 1: That was super shady of Steve Jobs. He references, you know,

155
00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:09,160
Speaker 1: the differences in their personalities like a few times, but

156
00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:13,680
Speaker 1: he's pretty coy about it. It's pretty subtle, pretty diplomatic.

157
00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:15,960
Speaker 1: He's like really not trying to like make waves, but

158
00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,520
Speaker 1: if you weep between the lines, yeah there is.

159
00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:21,080
Speaker 2: But just to give you a little bit of background,

160
00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,200
Speaker 2: like WA was was from California what we now call

161
00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,520
Speaker 2: Menlo Park, which is the heart of Silicon Valley. Baby,

162
00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:28,160
Speaker 2: it is.

163
00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:30,400
Speaker 1: So funny that it's like these guys were actually like

164
00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,600
Speaker 1: from there, literally from It's not like people came from

165
00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,000
Speaker 1: the world to like go to California because like, oh well,

166
00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,600
Speaker 1: like Stanford is there, like cal Tech. It's like he

167
00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:41,560
Speaker 1: grew up in Silicon Valley, like Steve jobs al super

168
00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:43,880
Speaker 1: Pysilicon Valley, Like they just happened to be there. And

169
00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:46,560
Speaker 1: his dad, although I guess it's also like dad thing.

170
00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,040
Speaker 1: I don't know who Steve jobsad would, but Waz's dad

171
00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:51,720
Speaker 1: was an engineer and so like got him into like

172
00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:55,960
Speaker 1: programming in radios and like tech and was like helping

173
00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:57,960
Speaker 1: him be such a nerd at the Science Fair at

174
00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:02,000
Speaker 1: age seven. So it's like, I guess maybe Waza's dad

175
00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:04,920
Speaker 1: was living there so that he could do engineer style.

176
00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,760
Speaker 2: His dad worked for Lock, Keith and Martin. He worked

177
00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:10,640
Speaker 2: in the missile program, and he grew up in an

178
00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:11,280
Speaker 2: Icler home.

179
00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:15,240
Speaker 1: Yes, famous mid century designer who made these like gorgeous

180
00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:19,079
Speaker 1: mid century houses that were so indoor outdoor living and

181
00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,760
Speaker 1: like you know, you would pay like millions of dollars

182
00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,160
Speaker 1: for a now but originally designed to like be for

183
00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,040
Speaker 1: the perfect middle class family. Eh. And he was just like,

184
00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,680
Speaker 1: don't worry, darling, very don't worry, darling.

185
00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:35,040
Speaker 2: Men come home for their martinis after their job at

186
00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:36,280
Speaker 2: the missile office.

187
00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:40,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the condurver thing. Got your martini, like from

188
00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:45,720
Speaker 1: missile to Martini missiles. And then like he's like splaining

189
00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,319
Speaker 1: somebody apricots and having this like most idyllic nineteen fifties childhood,

190
00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,760
Speaker 1: like driving around on his tricycle like reprogramming ham radios

191
00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,000
Speaker 1: with his other like autistic friends.

192
00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:57,160
Speaker 2: And they all like sneak out at night to like

193
00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,480
Speaker 2: program ham radios. He's like, I actually don't know what

194
00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:03,880
Speaker 2: we did, which is also so fifties, like they were

195
00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,200
Speaker 2: sneaking out. He never did drugs because he was just

196
00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,600
Speaker 2: like nerdy and like wasn't into drinking because he literally

197
00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,240
Speaker 2: saw his dad be so mean and Marchini and missile

198
00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:15,920
Speaker 2: and his dad was being so mad men and angry.

199
00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's this interesting thing in the beginning where he's

200
00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,079
Speaker 1: talking about how like TVs used to work, and you

201
00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:24,360
Speaker 1: will see how positive he is in this, so like

202
00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,400
Speaker 1: people would take their TV tubes out and have to

203
00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,160
Speaker 1: like go to the grocery store to repair them. When

204
00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:32,160
Speaker 1: I was growing up, everybody who owned TVs and radios

205
00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,760
Speaker 1: literally had to replace the bad vacuum tubes inside themselves.

206
00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,720
Speaker 1: Grocery stores had the giant tube testers that everyone in

207
00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:41,079
Speaker 1: the family, kids, parents, everyone knew how to use. He's

208
00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,959
Speaker 1: being so like, from Grandma's to aunties, from cousins to kids,

209
00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:47,240
Speaker 1: we all knew how to go to the grocery store.

210
00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:49,480
Speaker 1: I mean, we knew that when the TV went bad,

211
00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:51,040
Speaker 1: you opened it up and took all the tubes to

212
00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,760
Speaker 1: the grocery store where you'd insert them into that machine.

213
00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:55,199
Speaker 1: There was a meter on it that would tell you

214
00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:56,920
Speaker 1: if the tube was good, weak, or bad. You could

215
00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:58,880
Speaker 1: buy replacements for the bad tubes right there in the

216
00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,520
Speaker 1: grocery store and take them home to reinsert your TV.

217
00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:06,600
Speaker 2: This shook me not to be so like republican, being

218
00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:10,960
Speaker 2: like when things used to work. But I'm just like,

219
00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,800
Speaker 2: it isn't saying then the fifties just like we were

220
00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:17,640
Speaker 2: straight up all like opening the TV, going to shop.

221
00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,679
Speaker 1: Like new technology, people don't know how to troubleshoot their technow.

222
00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:23,280
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's what you're getting it. It's

223
00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,960
Speaker 1: like if you had something you learned at least the

224
00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,120
Speaker 1: basics comatics of kind of like how it functioned and

225
00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:32,559
Speaker 1: like how you could replace things. And I do feel

226
00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:34,960
Speaker 1: like even as technology you progress, it's like our knowledge

227
00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,720
Speaker 1: of it has really minimized. And obviously AI is like

228
00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:39,520
Speaker 1: the kind of the final conclusion of that of like

229
00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:41,840
Speaker 1: no one having a single piece of information in their

230
00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:44,280
Speaker 1: brains anymore, because I feel like there's done some studying

231
00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:45,800
Speaker 1: by some study. I mean, I think I heard about

232
00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:47,600
Speaker 1: an article once that I'm not sure if it's true,

233
00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:49,319
Speaker 1: but it was like I don't know if someone was

234
00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,600
Speaker 1: talking about trying to like do computer class with like

235
00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:53,839
Speaker 1: kids these days, and it's like they don't even know

236
00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,560
Speaker 1: like where files are on the Mac. It's like the

237
00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,839
Speaker 1: Mac is already so simple the way I have.

238
00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,120
Speaker 2: I've read a tweet about that article, and like it's

239
00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,760
Speaker 2: very our, like that's our new boomer thing, Like millennials

240
00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,120
Speaker 2: are so like did you hear kids don't even know

241
00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,520
Speaker 2: how to use word, They can't organize a desktop, they

242
00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:15,760
Speaker 2: don't know what a desktop is. But I feel like

243
00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,520
Speaker 2: it's like this rise and now which Apple.

244
00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:24,360
Speaker 1: Is responsible for the absolutely and fantilization of the consumer and.

245
00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,840
Speaker 2: I think like what Steve was did was like make

246
00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,240
Speaker 2: the Apple computer so people there was a time when

247
00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,160
Speaker 2: people were like way more techy and knew everything and

248
00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,160
Speaker 2: like we're really good at computers, and Apple helped them

249
00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:39,000
Speaker 2: do that. And then Apple went further to take that

250
00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:40,280
Speaker 2: away from everyone.

251
00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:42,560
Speaker 1: And you see this kind of like just later on

252
00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,440
Speaker 1: in this TV tube section, he goes, I remember wondering

253
00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:47,840
Speaker 1: what it would take to build a tube that wouldn't

254
00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,560
Speaker 1: burn out, or a TV that didn't need tubes to

255
00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,360
Speaker 1: work at all, how much easier they would be for people.

256
00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,800
Speaker 1: So you see as this kind of like almost like socialist,

257
00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,320
Speaker 1: I want to change the world aspect of like we're

258
00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,600
Speaker 1: going to make people's lives so much easier. Technology is

259
00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:05,000
Speaker 1: going to able all of this freedom for the consumer,

260
00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:07,840
Speaker 1: which obviously it has to a large extent. We're talking,

261
00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,679
Speaker 1: you know, look at us right now, we're recording a podcast.

262
00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:15,080
Speaker 1: In two different phrases actually reveal we're remote for this episode,

263
00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:16,000
Speaker 1: which we rarely are.

264
00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,000
Speaker 2: We like to be in person, yes.

265
00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:22,640
Speaker 1: And nothing replaces in person chemistry. Yes, and Apple and

266
00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:23,720
Speaker 1: their incredible.

267
00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:25,319
Speaker 2: Technology chology has helped us.

268
00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:29,760
Speaker 1: But it is also incredibly alienating, and it's also I

269
00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:32,480
Speaker 1: think made a lot of people stupid. It's taken away

270
00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,880
Speaker 1: our lives from us, It's taken away our attention, and

271
00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,600
Speaker 1: now we are sort of trapped in a cycle of addiction.

272
00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,040
Speaker 2: You could say, though, on the reverse side of like

273
00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:44,760
Speaker 2: technology is like what is cool? I think about the

274
00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:46,959
Speaker 2: youth because I'm actually like super in support of the

275
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,040
Speaker 2: youth and like I'm not here to knock them down.

276
00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,760
Speaker 2: Is like it's made like certain youth also like amazing

277
00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:57,040
Speaker 2: video editors. They're like able to create like websites and

278
00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:00,320
Speaker 2: apps and just like you know, do things that but

279
00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:01,080
Speaker 2: I don't know how to do.

280
00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,240
Speaker 1: What are some awesome youth created websites that you love?

281
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:07,960
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I actually have such a huge like.

282
00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:10,960
Speaker 1: I would actually argue that websites have never been worse.

283
00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,600
Speaker 1: I feel like any website I go to today there's

284
00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:18,640
Speaker 1: eighteen thousand pop up ads, like embedded video playing inside

285
00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:21,520
Speaker 1: the pop up ad, like inside the article. I can't

286
00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:22,360
Speaker 1: even look at a stor.

287
00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:24,880
Speaker 2: Tell me more about video editing. And just like kids

288
00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:25,920
Speaker 2: on TikTok.

289
00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,040
Speaker 1: Okay, but like, isn't the secret of TikTok too it

290
00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,960
Speaker 1: is they're actually spending so long editing those videos I

291
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,320
Speaker 1: don't know if they're any better at it than people

292
00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:34,200
Speaker 1: were ten years ago.

293
00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,640
Speaker 2: They're taking definitely a long time, but they're also like

294
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,360
Speaker 2: doing it like I remember taking this like classic camp

295
00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:44,040
Speaker 2: where we like edited VHS's like real to real VHS.

296
00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,280
Speaker 1: Oh, it was actually exec.

297
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:47,800
Speaker 2: Insane dope machine.

298
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,640
Speaker 1: All your video art in college was being so eight millimeter.

299
00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:53,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they really tried to be way more reverse

300
00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,680
Speaker 2: in old school and taught us how to tape the

301
00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:00,040
Speaker 2: film together, like caught at literally whis scissors and tape it.

302
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,320
Speaker 2: But I just got it transferred to digital and just

303
00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,080
Speaker 2: like it looks so from the past.

304
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,720
Speaker 1: Because Okay, so you were kind of being this badass

305
00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,240
Speaker 1: kid as like, no, dude, I'm gonna put it on digital,

306
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:12,560
Speaker 1: but make it look old.

307
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:14,280
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, and then it did.

308
00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:18,320
Speaker 1: Teacher's mind's gonna be fucking blown. But I think you

309
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,239
Speaker 1: see at this point, though, like the sort of seeds

310
00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,360
Speaker 1: of the switch of him and Steve Jobs are being

311
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,880
Speaker 1: planted where it's like he does have this more like

312
00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,800
Speaker 1: positive view of what technology should do, whereas Steve Jobs

313
00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,480
Speaker 1: like is more of like a technofascist migl at maniac

314
00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:38,160
Speaker 1: in the like Zuckerberg musk realm, who's just like I

315
00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,040
Speaker 1: a want to make a gazillion dollars, Like, yes, I

316
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,840
Speaker 1: want to like push technology forward, but like I'm imagining

317
00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,720
Speaker 1: in a world where people become completely addicted to our

318
00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:50,200
Speaker 1: products they cannot live without them. And also we designed

319
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,120
Speaker 1: them to like fail after three years. You need to

320
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:53,360
Speaker 1: buy anyone all the time just.

321
00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:54,880
Speaker 2: To jump ahead. I feel like now that you brought

322
00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:58,600
Speaker 2: it up the first time, like Steve Waws discovers that

323
00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,240
Speaker 2: Apple was like trying to make products to fail is

324
00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:04,600
Speaker 2: around the time he was like, I actually kind of

325
00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,800
Speaker 2: want to leave to back it up. Steve makes when

326
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:12,800
Speaker 2: he's working at HP, the first ever the Apple, where

327
00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,240
Speaker 2: he like, you see letters on the screen and he

328
00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,480
Speaker 2: gets inspired by the game Pong that he sees like

329
00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:20,360
Speaker 2: at a pizza parlor, which I thought was so cool,

330
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,840
Speaker 2: and I was like, it's actually blew my mind that

331
00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:27,600
Speaker 2: I was like, wait, video games were pre home computers.

332
00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,240
Speaker 1: And Steve Jobs worked at Atari. So while Steve Jobs

333
00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:34,920
Speaker 1: is at Atari, Waws is over at HP and that

334
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:37,920
Speaker 1: all of the guys were meeting up in their garages

335
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,160
Speaker 1: and being so like it was called the Homebrew the

336
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,520
Speaker 1: Wild West at the Homebrew of like the early days technology,

337
00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,400
Speaker 1: like a lot of them were working for video game companies,

338
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:48,280
Speaker 1: Like that's where it all went down. It also makes

339
00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:51,320
Speaker 1: sense though, because it's like that is the fusion of

340
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,280
Speaker 1: like inputting something with some sort of device and then

341
00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,000
Speaker 1: it's showing up on a screen because those original apples,

342
00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:58,640
Speaker 1: they didn't even have screens. We had to hook them

343
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:02,040
Speaker 1: up to like a screen of your own choosing.

344
00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:04,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, you had to buy one. And so like when

345
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,840
Speaker 2: Steve Waz sees he's out like a pizza partner with

346
00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,399
Speaker 2: his first wife, Alice, and it is crazy at this

347
00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:12,480
Speaker 2: point that he's like getting girls.

348
00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:14,400
Speaker 1: Well he gets one girl, but.

349
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,920
Speaker 2: Then he gets married again, and then he's married four

350
00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:18,560
Speaker 2: times and dated Kathy Griffin.

351
00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:20,879
Speaker 1: Okay, but he's the kind of guy where it's like

352
00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,720
Speaker 1: because he meets her when she calls into that hilarious

353
00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,800
Speaker 1: dial a joke thing, which he starts doing because he

354
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,359
Speaker 1: gets obsessed with phones because he reads an article in

355
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:36,840
Speaker 1: GQ magazine about people like hacking payphones and like being

356
00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:39,200
Speaker 1: able to call anywhere in the world by like tricking

357
00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:39,960
Speaker 1: the operator.

358
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,040
Speaker 2: This is so iconic, it's called the phone freak community.

359
00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,720
Speaker 2: And so when Waz reads this article, that's like a

360
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:50,080
Speaker 2: fictional article called the Blue Box that's about people hacking

361
00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:53,879
Speaker 2: telephone lines. Not a fictional article, no, no, no, no, babe,

362
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:54,560
Speaker 2: it was fiction.

363
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:58,480
Speaker 1: Captain Crunch exists find but okay, did you.

364
00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:02,960
Speaker 2: Read the book book it's a fictional article. And then

365
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,680
Speaker 2: he breaks into a library to test what they're saying

366
00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,280
Speaker 2: in the fictional article is real, and then it is

367
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:10,879
Speaker 2: and it blows his mind. I'm kind of imagine how

368
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,600
Speaker 2: you can open up Cosmo and there's a fictional article

369
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:18,119
Speaker 2: about a slutty girl at college. Right, it was like

370
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:20,800
Speaker 2: meets a guy and then becomes a nun and it

371
00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:22,760
Speaker 2: may just be inspired by true of him.

372
00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,960
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, I get it was probably built as fiction

373
00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:28,919
Speaker 1: because they didn't want to get these people in trouble.

374
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:32,960
Speaker 2: Yes, And like when he reads this article, he's like,

375
00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:38,479
Speaker 2: I had literal chills, and he's like, so I called

376
00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:43,280
Speaker 2: Steve Jobs instantly, and we put together eight hundred mz

377
00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,640
Speaker 2: with a twelve hundred m Z and we tapped it

378
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,439
Speaker 2: together and dialed five five five.

379
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:53,680
Speaker 1: Because this whole time this Blue Box thing is happening,

380
00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,520
Speaker 1: he's basically being such a cop and he keeps being

381
00:18:56,560 --> 00:19:01,360
Speaker 1: just like, I would never use this bar to make

382
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:04,639
Speaker 1: a free phone call on the phone company's dime.

383
00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:08,399
Speaker 2: This is not just how fucking like nerdy Steve is.

384
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:10,199
Speaker 1: Okay, but see even though he's like a cop and

385
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,640
Speaker 1: Nott whant to pay money. When he does get arrested

386
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:16,560
Speaker 1: for putting a fake bomb in his friend's locker a

387
00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,560
Speaker 1: school with like a metronum device that would tick and

388
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:21,800
Speaker 1: would tick faster once you open the locker, so people

389
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,199
Speaker 1: think go back to explode, and like a teacher like

390
00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,760
Speaker 1: trying to like disarm it. He gets rested, he teaches

391
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,240
Speaker 1: the other prisoners in jail how to shock guards with

392
00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,760
Speaker 1: electrical wires by like electrocuting the bars of the cell.

393
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:39,000
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, you're being so ab. No, he

394
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,200
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, steal from the phone company because that's

395
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:42,920
Speaker 1: not ethical.

396
00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:46,479
Speaker 2: Around this time, also he becomes like very like anti

397
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,760
Speaker 2: Vietnam War and he's like, well, my Martini missile dad

398
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,000
Speaker 2: told me like we had to go kill him in

399
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,480
Speaker 2: the Vietnam War. And then he's like, well, then I

400
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:59,040
Speaker 2: started reading about it and it didn't make quite sense

401
00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:02,720
Speaker 2: to me, just like there should be peace in the world, yeah,

402
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,480
Speaker 2: and just like actually, why should they disarm them? And

403
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,119
Speaker 2: then he becomes like this. It's like very his personality

404
00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,840
Speaker 2: where he's like, well, I was anti Vietnam, warn I

405
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,160
Speaker 2: loved like Bob Dylan, but like he is just such

406
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:17,320
Speaker 2: like this nerve He's like, but I didn't connect. And

407
00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,600
Speaker 2: I was wearing just like a button up Oxford shirt

408
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,320
Speaker 2: and khakis and like, yes, I had like a slim

409
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:26,119
Speaker 2: little headband. Yeah, but I wore but like which also

410
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,080
Speaker 2: my dad did. He had like one little leather headband.

411
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,760
Speaker 1: Oh, I know the photo of your dad you're talking about.

412
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, But also was like so nerdy, I feel

413
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:35,080
Speaker 2: like and not.

414
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,560
Speaker 1: Doing drugs and like no, Waz was like not really

415
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:40,640
Speaker 1: like getting to hang out with any of the hippies,

416
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,640
Speaker 1: even though he was like from a logic standpoint, understanding

417
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:45,439
Speaker 1: that the Viennam Moore didn't make sense and that the

418
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,560
Speaker 1: Gulf of Tonkin was just like completely faked with this

419
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 1: CIA as like a pretense for war and like that's

420
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,080
Speaker 1: fucked up and I don't believe that from an ethical

421
00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:58,040
Speaker 1: or logical standpoint. However, also do not want to do

422
00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,359
Speaker 1: drugs because I want to be smart my own and

423
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:01,480
Speaker 1: I'm afraid and.

424
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,199
Speaker 2: I want to like tap and deal with ram. So

425
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,720
Speaker 2: basically it's like him and Steve become phone freaks. But

426
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,160
Speaker 2: then he goes to college and like he also has

427
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 2: like such an insane like college wild ride. But then

428
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,879
Speaker 2: in some years when he has like discovers this like

429
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,080
Speaker 2: video game, he drops out of college with Steve jobs

430
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:24,840
Speaker 2: to make the Apple computer and is like almost doesn't

431
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,000
Speaker 2: do it because he's like, well, I have this job.

432
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,119
Speaker 1: At HP, Like why should I because he's so just

433
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:32,040
Speaker 1: like the ethical thing to do is continue to make job.

434
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,840
Speaker 1: And then I couldn't believe when he was so desperately

435
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,520
Speaker 1: trying to get HP to like sign out. He was like, well,

436
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 1: everything that we've thought of while I was working at

437
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,440
Speaker 1: HP is technically HP's property, So I need to tell

438
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,480
Speaker 1: HP about all our ideas. And he like tells them

439
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,600
Speaker 1: multiple times about like their designs for the Apple one.

440
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,560
Speaker 2: And he literally is arrest me, arrest me, and they're like,

441
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,919
Speaker 2: you're not copying actually anything from HP. It's like fine,

442
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 2: And he's like basically going to HP like at night

443
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 2: and is like fiddling with so many motherboards to like

444
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:04,400
Speaker 2: create the computer.

445
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 1: It's like he's literally trying to give HP Apple on

446
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,679
Speaker 1: a platter, and they're being like, sys, we're good, like

447
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 1: go off into your thing, like it's so random and nerdy,

448
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,400
Speaker 1: and also like it's just kind of like I don't

449
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,879
Speaker 1: know personal computers. It's like not really our thing. It's

450
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 1: not really gonna work, Like.

451
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 2: We don't do that, like your calculator asks can like

452
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:24,119
Speaker 2: move on.

453
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 1: It's so funny because wow, HP, they didn't have the

454
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,959
Speaker 1: vision then, and they still don't. They still they're still

455
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:31,879
Speaker 1: just making fucking printers.

456
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:36,639
Speaker 2: Right still like in the corner at Staples collecting dust mama.

457
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:38,639
Speaker 2: But I mean I guess like they're still going.

458
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 1: They still exist, and people still need printers, and like

459
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 1: I just feel like most of HP's business at this

460
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 1: point is like selling like a really big printer to

461
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 1: just like whatever the like.

462
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:53,919
Speaker 2: I think it's corporate sales.

463
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 1: Whatever the like kazakhstanding equivalent of the DMV is and

464
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 1: they're just like they're always just having to go repair.

465
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 2: I mean printers. I'm staring at my printer right now,

466
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 2: Like printers are the biggest scam in the entire world,

467
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 2: honestly more than Apple, because like printers are just gonna

468
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:09,640
Speaker 2: stop working, and like.

469
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:11,400
Speaker 1: I'm sure half their business is just repairing.

470
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just want to put a pin and dial

471
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:18,399
Speaker 2: the joke right before, or kind of as Steve was

472
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,879
Speaker 2: is like creating the Apple computer. He literally runs a

473
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 2: dial a joke line where he bought a book of

474
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 2: one thousand and one the most popular joke book in

475
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,160
Speaker 2: the country then, which was two thousand and one Italian

476
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:33,239
Speaker 2: and Polish jokes, and you dial the number and like,

477
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 2: he reads a Polish joke and then the Polish embassy

478
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,879
Speaker 2: was like, stop, this is racist, and he was like,

479
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 2: but I'm Polish and he was like, well, can I

480
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,239
Speaker 2: do Italian jokes? And they were like yes, And then

481
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 2: he's like, years later, the Polish Embassy actually gave me

482
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 2: an a word for me an accomplished pull up. And

483
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 2: then that's how he meets his wife and then his

484
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 2: other like completely insane scam even though he's like so

485
00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 2: for like ethics is he creates did a fake PanAm

486
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 2: phone line where people called him and he made up

487
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 2: ridiculous flights for them and they booked them with him

488
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 2: and they were fake flights. He was like, so, I

489
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,680
Speaker 2: tried to think of the craziest worst time someone would

490
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,959
Speaker 2: fly and give that the cheapest number. And he was like,

491
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 2: at one point I asked people do you want to

492
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:31,159
Speaker 2: ride Cargo.

493
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: Sere is this other scam in college. He first goes

494
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 1: to college in Colorado, which he was totally enamored by

495
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 1: because when he went there was snowing. They didn't really

496
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 1: have you know, intense snow and Menlo Park at that time.

497
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 1: And he does this scam where he figures out how

498
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 1: to kind of jam the TV reception a little bit

499
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 1: and like vary in a phone way. Like there was

500
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,440
Speaker 1: only like one TV before, so like all the dorm

501
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 1: kids are all watching TV together and then he would

502
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: be in his pocket with having this like little like

503
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 1: device that he created that could like make the TV staticky,

504
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,120
Speaker 1: and then he would like turn it on and then

505
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,640
Speaker 1: somebody would slap the TV and he would like turn

506
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 1: it off. So then he started like getting them to

507
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 1: do like increasingly like ridiculous things with their bodies, like

508
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 1: the stand on one leg and like they were kind

509
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: of falling for He was like, Oh, is this amazing

510
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 1: experiment with these like guinea pigs. I was getting people

511
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 1: to like behave like total weirdos trying to get the

512
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 1: TV to work like all while he's sitting in the

513
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 1: back of the room.

514
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 2: And everyone's banging and screaming TVs and he's being so

515
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 2: like nerd like and be like, ah, but it isn't

516
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 2: in a evil I'm a nerd and I was bullied way.

517
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 2: It's in a more like how ridiculous is logic? How

518
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 2: someone would be happy to hitto TV? But not a person?

519
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 1: Yes and no, because I do think there is something

520
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 1: profoundly antisocial about that, because he's basically sitting at the

521
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 1: back of the class, like not talking to people, like

522
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,439
Speaker 1: fucking with this TV and being like it's funny to me.

523
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 1: But it's like he only ever told one other person

524
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:09,919
Speaker 1: about it. He's actually not even friends with any of

525
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 1: these people. He's just like kind of pulling the wires

526
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: from behind, and you know, he talks about how shy

527
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,120
Speaker 1: he is. There's this part early on we talked about

528
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 1: how like really worn the porn.

529
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 2: When he moves into his like first college dorm and

530
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 2: he's like my roommate who was named Randy weird name,

531
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 2: and he is like he put Playboy posters up.

532
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: On the wall and he was like he was a

533
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: little more advanced than me, and he brought even a

534
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 1: Mormon girl home one time. It's like, this guy's so

535
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: much game and Waz was just like so nerdy and

536
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:44,239
Speaker 1: like jacking out in the back of the class, like

537
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 1: while like fucking with TVs. Like this is what I'm saying.

538
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: It's like, I do think there's something really anti social

539
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 1: about it. Like, even if it's not.

540
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I just wonder if he's so nerdy to this

541
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 2: point of not even having this self awareness that he

542
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 2: sense people with social skills.

543
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 1: In an in cell way. Yes, I think obviously this

544
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,160
Speaker 1: book would not express that resentment, but I wonder if

545
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 1: it's there in his private life. He goes from our

546
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 1: elementary school on even after starting Apple and Beyond, I

547
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: used my clever designs as an easier, more comfortable way

548
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 1: to communicate with others. I believe all of us humans

549
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: have an internally desocialized In my case, it came up

550
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 1: mainly by doing impressive things like electronics and incredibly showy

551
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: and clever things like pranks. It was probably the shinest

552
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: thing that in sixth grade and afterward put me on

553
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,479
Speaker 1: the hunt for electronics journals. That way I could read

554
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 1: about electronic self without actually having to go walk up

555
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 1: to someone and ask questions. I was too shy to

556
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 1: even go to a library and ask for a book

557
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,360
Speaker 1: on computers called computers, And because I was too shy

558
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: to learn the ordinary way, I ended up getting what

559
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 1: was to me the most important knowledge in the world accidentally.

560
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 1: And so here he is the inventor of the personal computer,

561
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 1: who was profoundly shy, saying that he wanted to invent

562
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: these devices that could enable communication. And of course they do.

563
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: And yet I also wonder if because all this technology

564
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,719
Speaker 1: was invented by these like insane autists, I'm like, does

565
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: technology also enable shyness? Because of course today we look

566
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: at the absolute autism epidemic we're living through and the

567
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 1: way the technology could be so alienating. I wonder if

568
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 1: it's almost the original sin of like the shy nerds

569
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 1: who invented it being kind of passed down and it's

570
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,679
Speaker 1: like some of that like in cel jealousy, maybe that

571
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: you're reverencing that secretly there has like been almost wetted

572
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 1: in to the motherboards and has been passed down in

573
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: motherboard motherboard.

574
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 2: And I think technology just on a broad scale of

575
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 2: you know, the shyness and you know, like social outcast thing.

576
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 2: It's you know, it's not black and white. But I

577
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 2: think on the good side is like it's brought so

578
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 2: much community to people like the Steve Waughs, who would

579
00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 2: not be able to make friends otherwise, and like, you know,

580
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 2: who can find community that way and be like, wait,

581
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 2: there's another friend who likes this game and they're like

582
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 2: in London, and I'm just like I'm in Calgary. Yes,

583
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 2: you know. But then of course there's a devil aside

584
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 2: to it, which is it keeps you in the room.

585
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: Yes, I but I say, wonder if even in that

586
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: television example, like was was like, yes, he found community

587
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: with other nerds, but he still then retained this kind

588
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: of antisocialness. So I wonder if even once you find community,

589
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 1: it doesn't actually help you socialize any better. And then

590
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:36,959
Speaker 1: if we look at the nerds of today, you know,

591
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: you go back to me going on MySpace when I

592
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: was like fourteen and like going on video game message boards,

593
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: like I was doing that. I don't know if that

594
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: was helping me become a more social person. I think

595
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: was helping me become a more social person was meeting

596
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: other people in real life. And you and me like

597
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 1: going to the movies as kids as teams.

598
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 2: Well that was beautiful, And I think we're literally vol

599
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 2: I think we're lucky to meet other LGBTQ folks like

600
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 2: each other who had the same interest in middle school.

601
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 2: And I think like some people that really weren't that lucky,

602
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 2: and like you do have to go on you know,

603
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 2: the message boards. And I think with Waz it's like

604
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 2: things that also helped him become actually more social were

605
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 2: like kind of practice in a way, like having to

606
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 2: work with these people, having to like then like once

607
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 2: he got money, like making a music.

608
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: Festival, yes, the US festival, the US. Was so excited

609
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: to meet van Halen later on.

610
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 2: And then he realizes overpaying van Halen. But we talk

611
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 2: about antiocial. I mean, he really boils down the difference

612
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 2: between him and Steve Jobs, like quite plainly, where he's

613
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 2: like I am someone And this is when like Apple was,

614
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 2: you know, going public, and he basically was like, I

615
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 2: don't want to be like a CEO. I want to

616
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 2: stay an engineer, Like I want to be the guy

617
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 2: I like mixing up motherboards. And he says, I'm the

618
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 2: type of guy who likes to have fun with a

619
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 2: couple of friends in a garage working on projects. I

620
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 2: do not want to manage people, and I like fun

621
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 2: and joke. Steve Jobs is the type of guy who

622
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 2: basically wants to manage people, wants money, like wants power.

623
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: And of course you know the two of them. The

624
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: company would never existed without Steve Jobs. Yeah, you needed

625
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 1: Steve's marketing genius. I mean Steve Jobs like came up

626
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: with the word apple because he had just been like

627
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: at an apple orchard that weekend.

628
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 2: That was wasn't that crazy?

629
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, just can be so simple, he goes, believe it

630
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 1: or not, it was a couple of slater We came

631
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: with a name for the partnership. I remember I was

632
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: driving seat back from the airport along Highway eighty five,

633
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 1: Steve coming back from a visit to Oregon to a

634
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: place he called and quote apple orchard. It's like a

635
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: place he called an apple orchard. It's just like that's

636
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 1: a thing that exists. Was an apple orchard? Is in

637
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: quotes in the book.

638
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 2: Well let's take it back.

639
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: Well, then he goes, it was actually some kind of

640
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 1: a commune. I guess he's saying that.

641
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 2: Like I think it was so seven d's and maybe

642
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 2: he was going to some sex retreat and being like, sure, Jobs,

643
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 2: it was an apple it was.

644
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: An apple orchard. Okay, like so nerdy, and he's only

645
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: had sex with his like married wife once, and he's like,

646
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: by the.

647
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 2: Way, he tries to save his marriage to Alice, he

648
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 2: joins the Freemasons to spend more time with his wife,

649
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 2: but it doesn't work. I feel like she's like, I'll

650
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 2: do anything to get away from.

651
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: Your probably because he was just like playing pranks on

652
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: the Freemasons, like with like his weird just like remote

653
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: control motherboard in the back of the room instead of

654
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: doing their weird rituals or whatever.

655
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 2: And then he's like, well, I hated religion, but I

656
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 2: still like became this freemason. And then he's like, and

657
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 2: then we did get divorced, but I guess I'm still

658
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 2: a Freemason. But he gets married again, and like he

659
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 2: gets married four times, and his second wedding sounds so dope.

660
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 2: Emmy Lou Harris plays.

661
00:32:57,640 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, by that time, he's like rich and famous and

662
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: he's just like Emilily Harris, one of my good longtime friends. Anyway,

663
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: if I could just finish the Apple story, he goes,

664
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: Steve's just in a name Apple computer. The first comment

665
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 1: out of my mouth was, what about Apple Records. This

666
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: was and still is the Beatles' own record label. We

667
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 1: both tried to come up with technical sounding names that

668
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 1: were better, but we couldn't think of any good ones.

669
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: Apple was so much better, better than any other name

670
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: we could think of, so Apple it was Apple. It

671
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: had to be. And Steve didn't think Apple Records would

672
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: have a problem since it was probably because it was

673
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 1: a totally different business. So there's two things here that

674
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: I think are really true. One, if you have the

675
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: same name as a company but it's a totally different

676
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: industry doesn't matter. I think that's great too. It's like

677
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 1: trust your gut. They didn't sit around thinking like we

678
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: should call it like next Gen or Infotech or like

679
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: some other kind of cool high tech sounding name. They

680
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: were just like, this just has this really beautiful, rounded,

681
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: simple quality to it that feels so positive. But obviously

682
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: the Isaac Newton Association. They were just like, it has

683
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: to be this, and it's like, don't fight it.

684
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 2: They'd never thinking. I also think they're beginning yang is that,

685
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 2: like Steve Waz says, like they would get in fights.

686
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 2: But I think, like Steve was also like trusted jobs

687
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 2: vision of more like social aspects, which I would call

688
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 2: like naming things.

689
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,839
Speaker 1: Yes, and I think consumer facing, but it makes sense.

690
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 2: It's like there was so much out there, like IBM

691
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 2: existed and everything was being so info ram Ham operator.

692
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 2: But yeah, they were inventing their first personal computer. So

693
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 2: make it something everyone eats personal personal baby Apple a day.

694
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 1: And like all good companies, the only thing you really

695
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 1: have to do is stick with it, and then it

696
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: becomes the thing I always tell people Google sounded silly

697
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,319
Speaker 1: the first time someone heard it. Sounded like baby, look

698
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,439
Speaker 1: at it now, So sim and Steve. I was just saying,

699
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 1: very different people, very different people. They one of their

700
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: first things, like they were building this computer for Atari,

701
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 1: and Atari had wanted them to try to make a game,

702
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: and like Waz was really good at making things with

703
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 1: less chips, like that's how he basically ended up being

704
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 1: able to design a computer that would be smaller because

705
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: someuntil then computers were massive, and like my mom was

706
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: always talking about computers being like, oh, at Stanford's a

707
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: computer it took up an entire building and it had

708
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,879
Speaker 1: punch cards. You had to put in the punch card

709
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: to run the program. And so they designed this like

710
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: racing game for Atari that's much smaller. They both got

711
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 1: mono like staying up all night building this game. The

712
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 1: whole thing used forty five chips, and Steve paid me

713
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 1: half the seven hundred bucks he said they paid for him.

714
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 1: They were paying us based on how few chips I

715
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: could do it in. Later I found out he got

716
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 1: paid a bit more for it, like a few thousand

717
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: dollars than he had said at the time. But we

718
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,360
Speaker 1: were kids, you know. He got paid one amount and

719
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 1: told me he got paid another. He wasn't honest with me,

720
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 1: and I was hurt, but I didn't make a big

721
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: deal about it or Yeah, it's like what esex always

722
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: mattered to me. And I still don't really understand why

723
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 1: he would have gotten paid one thing and told me

724
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: he gotten paid another. But you know, people are different,

725
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: And in no way do I regret the experience at

726
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 1: Atari with Steve jobs. He was my best friend, was

727
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 1: what and I still feel extremely linked with him. I

728
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: wish him well and it was a great project that

729
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:25,439
Speaker 1: was so fun. Anyway, in the long run of money,

730
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 1: Steve and I both ended up getting very comfortable money

731
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 1: wise from my work founding Apple. Just a few years later,

732
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: it's retainly didn't a d up too much, like.

733
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 2: Such crazy tea, because this is their first project together,

734
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,760
Speaker 2: like before the Apple one computer, and this is early

735
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 2: on the book and he's kind of laying it out

736
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,839
Speaker 2: for everyone, being like yeah, no, no, no, he got paid

737
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 2: four thousand and I got seven hundred. I'm cool and

738
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:49,320
Speaker 2: we are linked.

739
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: We are linked, and obviously we're both incredibly wealthy from

740
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: our work founding Apple, which you've may have heard of. However,

741
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: he obviously is a snake in the grass and I

742
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 1: would never try. It's like, wow, that is so shady.

743
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 2: It's so shady, and it's like.

744
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 1: I can't even wrap my head around how shady it is.

745
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 2: It really makes you think about when people are starting

746
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 2: out and that first paycheck, that first view of fame.

747
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 2: It feels like that's the only thing you're gonna get. Yeah,

748
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 2: people show you who they are, believe it.

749
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 1: I just you know, because you and I are always

750
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 1: starting businesses together, and like we're honest about money. We

751
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: never lie, and like it's like if I thought that

752
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: I should have more money than you, I would just

753
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 1: tell you. I'd be like, listen, Lily, I got a

754
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 1: check from four k for Atari. I'm taking three k

755
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 1: ultimately that's what's happening. But here's your one K. I

756
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 1: thank you so much for the work that you've done.

757
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 2: You know, my mother always says, you know, the main

758
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 2: thing in a marriage, you need to be able to

759
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 2: talk about finance its finances. And if I can skip

760
00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:00,359
Speaker 2: ahead for a second, this is when Walls doesn't quit

761
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 2: because he says he still works at Apple, but you know,

762
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 2: they're making the Apple two, they're making the Apple three.

763
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 2: There's drama. He's like, can I just go back to

764
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 2: like making something? And he has all these devices. He

765
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 2: has his laser disc player now in his big Santa

766
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,320
Speaker 2: Cruz mansion. He has his Bang and Olsen record player,

767
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,839
Speaker 2: which I held, so is the record player I grew

768
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 2: up with your dad and was was. And he's like,

769
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 2: I wish I just had one remote for everything. Oh

770
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,399
Speaker 2: and he wants to create a universal remote, which he does,

771
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 2: but he's like, I have to leave Apple to do this,

772
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 2: so he leaves Apple. They're like, it's fine.

773
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: I'm saying that he leaves Apple to create a universal remote,

774
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 1: which to this day is still just like not really.

775
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 2: You such an as seen on Team such.

776
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 1: An as Tevy thing that actually just doesn't work, and like, yes,

777
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 1: we all need them, and it's like we all know

778
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 1: what happens when we go home to our parents' homes.

779
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,720
Speaker 1: There are six remotes. They can't figure around anyone.

780
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 2: They're scared of them, and they're like, don't touch that

781
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 2: one because like actually that will ruin everything.

782
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 1: Will ruin everything, And it's like they still haven't figured

783
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 1: it out. I mean, I guess we just all stream now,

784
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 1: that's how how they solved the problem. Was streaming was

785
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 1: just having it all come out of one TV and

786
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 1: now we don't have other objects, and then we.

787
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 2: Have we're streaming Spotify to our Bluetooth, so you don't

788
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 2: have need a remote to turn on your subword.

789
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 1: I guess technically it's like my Rokum does control my

790
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: Sono soundbar. Thank you to Roku for kind of solving

791
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: that issue.

792
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 2: But like was walked so Roku could run, Like.

793
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 1: I don't think they were pulling up his old designs

794
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: for his Universe remote and they like, oh, but come.

795
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,320
Speaker 2: On, I mean, like they wouldn't even have the idea

796
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 2: of was didn't and the idea of having one remote.

797
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: The idea of one remote, no I mean it was huge.

798
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 1: I couldn't believe that other guy, Ron Wayne, who they

799
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: founded Apple with, who had ten percent of Apple and

800
00:39:58,080 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 1: they bought him out for eight hundred dollars.

801
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 2: Eight one hundred dollars. Wait before I get into the

802
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 2: Steve jobs remote tension, ISA was is so lit and

803
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 2: basically like when right before they went public, the board

804
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 2: of Apple wanted to be like, well, only executives get

805
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 2: their first ticket shares and Waz was like, no, that's

806
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 2: not cool, Like let's be more socialist about it, like

807
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 2: it should be the engineers, it should be the secretaries.

808
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,800
Speaker 2: And they were like, you're crazy, You're losing so much money.

809
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,479
Speaker 1: And he let them all buy his shares. He said,

810
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: group blocks of his shares for five dollars to various employees,

811
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 1: and only like forty employees took him up on it.

812
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 1: But I'm sure they're all millionaires now.

813
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 2: Thank you to literally millionaires. It's also this thing of

814
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 2: him being like he'd already had a lot of money.

815
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 2: He was like, how much money do you need? Like

816
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 2: my passion is making remotes in a garage. I don't

817
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 2: need to hoard.

818
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: The man wants to tinker, he doesn't need a bigger

819
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: and bigger and bigger house.

820
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,240
Speaker 2: Whenever, like I feel like, you hear about some random

821
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 2: person having money and they're like, oh, well they got

822
00:40:57,960 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 2: Apple stock.

823
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: Really it's always that's always like, oh, she was actually

824
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 1: the in house massuse for Apple in the early days.

825
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:08,399
Speaker 1: Now she's a billionaire.

826
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 2: So they go public money money money they're making like

827
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 2: the Apple X three or whatever. He's just like, well,

828
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 2: this makes no sense because the Apple two is what's selling.

829
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's got such a be in his bonnet about

830
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 1: the Apple three not being good. It's like, because the

831
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: Apple three had a screen. It's like, honey, at some point,

832
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to put a screen on this computer.

833
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 1: When did you first get like an Apple commit Did

834
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 1: you guys have a computer before you had like your iMac?

835
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 2: I think when I was like nine, I remember my

836
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 2: dad having the thickest Apple laptop, Apple laptop literally Apple.

837
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 2: He was like an early Apple laptop and it was

838
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 2: like gray and like nine hundred pounds and I want

839
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 2: to say that was like ninety six or something. And

840
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 2: then we had also like a huge Apple computer.

841
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:01,879
Speaker 1: So that's my mother about this. She texted me, did

842
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 1: not have Apple at the beginning in the eighties. Hancock,

843
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: this is the company she worked at, kept to PCs

844
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 1: and huge IBM mainframes. We had quote dumb terminals at

845
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 1: our desks which could access the mainframe. They were not portable.

846
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 1: Then we got PCs which were portable and then plugged

847
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 1: into a home base that had a big screen back

848
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 1: in the office. My first work PC was a Toshiba.

849
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: Of course, you're at the dial up to get a connection.

850
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 1: You also had to insert floppy disk for word processing

851
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 1: in spreadsheets. I had a big modem in the sewing

852
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 1: machine room. Oh, in our house. Okay, Then she's sending

853
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 1: this photo of this Toshiba T eleven hundred. She goes,

854
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: the Toshiba was my first laptop. You were not even

855
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: born yet, so she had.

856
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 2: A Toshiba laptop in like eighty five.

857
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 1: This thing is basically a word processor. The screen is

858
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 1: like it's just text where.

859
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 2: It's like you could send it to a printer. I

860
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:57,839
Speaker 2: remember using a word processor as a kid and just

861
00:42:57,880 --> 00:42:59,280
Speaker 2: like writing random stuff.

862
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: What were you.

863
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 2: Probably like weird stories and stuff. Sorry, I tinker, I'm weird.

864
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 2: I'm literally walls. I was probably just like. There was

865
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 2: a gangster living in Cambridge. His name was Frankie the

866
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:13,800
Speaker 2: rat Y.

867
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,439
Speaker 1: Wow, that's wild. Oh wait, I wanted to ask because

868
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: he did so many science fairs. Did you do science?

869
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:23,879
Speaker 1: I think you must have because you were in middle

870
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: school with me. There was a science fair. Yeah, what

871
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 1: was your science project?

872
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 2: I was so bad at science. Yeah, Like I don't remember.

873
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 2: I'm like, I must have done something with This book

874
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 2: really brought made me think of was like the robotics

875
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 2: class I took in college, where I really like, it's

876
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 2: like theoretically, like it would be so cool to be

877
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 2: like tinkering and wires and like I always did love

878
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:52,359
Speaker 2: going to radio shack, but I'm also so not tech

879
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 2: brained at all.

880
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 1: You found it really gender affirming to be in a

881
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 1: radio shack.

882
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 2: But yes, and like I love just circuit boards, and

883
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 2: I feel like I was always like taking part of

884
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 2: circred boards to like put it on my wall in

885
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,240
Speaker 2: more of a collage mixed media space.

886
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 1: Okay, because you were also being like, it's so like Hacker.

887
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: You were kind of into like Hacker in like a

888
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 1: Berlin aesthetic way.

889
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 2: Yes, it was a Cocker aesthetic and like the greens

890
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:18,239
Speaker 2: of it and the switches. I thought that was so

891
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 2: cool so I took those robotics class and it just

892
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 2: like the guy who thought it was such a walls

893
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 2: and it was like just assumed you knew a certain

894
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 2: like a little bit of code, and he would just

895
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:29,879
Speaker 2: give these assignments and I'd be like we but dial

896
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 2: it back, like literally what? And I feel like he

897
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 2: just kind of felt bad for me. And I tried

898
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 2: to like put two wires together, but nothing really happened there.

899
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 1: And did you pass robotics?

900
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 2: I passed. I think I tried okay, and I had

901
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 2: like a partner, but I didn't really it didn't click.

902
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 2: What did you make in the science fair?

903
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:52,399
Speaker 1: I mean I kind of ripped off some girl from

904
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 1: who I'd seen done it the year before. But I

905
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 1: did this thing that was like testing senses, and it

906
00:44:57,640 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 1: was like to see which of your senses was the

907
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 1: was powerful. I called it common sense. And I did

908
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 1: like this whole experiment where my parents were friends with

909
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 1: this guy who worked at Marty's Liquors in Newton, and

910
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,240
Speaker 1: so I set up a table outside the liquor store

911
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 1: and I would blindfold like random pedestrians what with my

912
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 1: mother's velvet scarf. I remember that velvet scarff and I

913
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 1: would like, feed them a pair while holding an apple

914
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: under their nose, and nine times out of ten the

915
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: person would think they were eating an apple.

916
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 2: Sorry, this is the craziest thing in the entire world.

917
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:34,319
Speaker 2: You're outside a liquor store Newton, blindfolding people with a

918
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 2: velvet scarf. It's like, okay, can play.

919
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:40,839
Speaker 1: It was actually really kinky and.

920
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 2: You're feeding them fruit.

921
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 1: What is that? And I learned. I learned that smell

922
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 1: is a very powerful set, more so than taste.

923
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, that's what they always say.

924
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:55,439
Speaker 1: And they are right.

925
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 2: We have to go to segments and we haven't even

926
00:45:57,480 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 2: talked about well, I mean, it's not featured in the

927
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:01,879
Speaker 2: book that Waws and Kathy Griffin dated, which is how

928
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 2: I kind of had heard of.

929
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 1: Was I'm saying because we watched him on Life on

930
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 1: the d List and he's just always riding his segue

931
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 1: and she'd be like, there Isa was with his segue

932
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 1: and they actually.

933
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:12,919
Speaker 2: Only did for a year, but there's such a cute

934
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:14,920
Speaker 2: couple and she's always just being so like, here's my

935
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 2: billionaire boyfriend. In the episode I watched that she takes

936
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 2: him to a bear convention and like takes him to

937
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 2: the bear mall and is like showing him so many floggers.

938
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 1: I know it didn't work out, but.

939
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 2: Then they broke up and she said they actually never

940
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:27,760
Speaker 2: slept together.

941
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna be my guess because I just

942
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 1: feel like he actually is not verosexual and he's ace.

943
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:38,360
Speaker 2: Well, he got married right after they broke up, to

944
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 2: some woman that he's.

945
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 1: Still married to, and you think they're fucking.

946
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 2: I think he does fuck. I think in a weird way.

947
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 2: Sure she has tons of.

948
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 1: Sexual hang ups own like so many like weird fetishes.

949
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: I honestly think that like you rub up against wahs

950
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 1: and he premature ejaculates and it's over.

951
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 2: Or he's like maybe he's watching, or it's more of

952
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 2: just kind of a petting scenario.

953
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 1: I just don't think that he is rogering anyone. I

954
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 1: don't think he's giving anyone the business.

955
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:15,800
Speaker 2: No, I don't think like was is giving like Janet

956
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 2: his fourth wife the business, or he gave Alice his

957
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 2: first wife the business.

958
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he's sweet and he has a good I.

959
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 2: Think he's very sweet. I mean, he has three kids,

960
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 2: so he's made love three times. We know that. Okay,

961
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 2: just before we wrap this up, of just This is

962
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 2: this crazy Steve Job story where Steve Jobs is mad

963
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:40,479
Speaker 2: that WA was is using this design company, the same

964
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 2: design company that Apple uses to create his remote. Turned

965
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 2: out Steve Jobs is over at Frog for some reason

966
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,439
Speaker 2: and saw a CL nine prototype. From what I heard,

967
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 2: he threw it against a wall and put it in

968
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 2: a box and said send it to him, as if

969
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 2: Apple owned it. The Frog guy told me that Steve

970
00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 2: Jobs told him they couldn't do any work for us

971
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 2: because Apple owned Frog. Not true, I never knew it,

972
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 2: but Frog told us they felt uncomfortable doing without Apple's permission.

973
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 2: Apple was a big customer, so then we're going to

974
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:09,359
Speaker 2: do it.

975
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:09,839
Speaker 1: Well.

976
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 2: I wasn't gonna argue. I don't truly know what the

977
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 2: real story was, but I thought, good, fine, we'll go

978
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 2: somewhere else and we did.

979
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 1: Well that's that.

980
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's you to be completely like so like dramatic

981
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,799
Speaker 2: movie and like throwing a remote and send it the

982
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 2: fuck back to him, that short fat loser and was

983
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 2: is like, hmm, well you actually don't own Frog the

984
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:35,799
Speaker 2: design company. More on.

985
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 1: I mean, the fact that Steve Jobs was threatened by

986
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,919
Speaker 1: Universal Remode is also a little insane. It's like Jobs.

987
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 2: Simmer, you're about to make the iPods. What does she wear?

988
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:00,839
Speaker 1: What does she eat? How does she live? How does

989
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:02,799
Speaker 1: she live? Do you think he still lives in a

990
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:06,839
Speaker 1: gorgeous like mid century Eicler home or well?

991
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,399
Speaker 2: He describes his favorite home as his first house, which

992
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 2: sounded a little more like rustic California.

993
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 1: With the naughty wood, the naughty pine.

994
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 2: But it also has like a mural of dogs. So

995
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 2: I think his home is more like beautiful yeat imported

996
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 2: naughty pine and it's like gorgeous woods.

997
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 1: I think that's not true. I think he was reminiscing

998
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 1: about the beauty of that home because the current one

999
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 1: is just a boring McMansion and he lives in just

1000
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:34,839
Speaker 1: Sunny Vale or Menma Park or where he just lives

1001
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley in a boring Berry Luckerberg like five

1002
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 1: bedroom new McMansion.

1003
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:42,840
Speaker 2: I guess right, he's wishing for his knotty yes, because

1004
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 2: like that's how they make housles now, and like yes,

1005
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:46,800
Speaker 2: there's indoor outdoor like sliding doors that lead up to

1006
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 2: the pool in the grill, but it still looked pretty new.

1007
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 2: I think his bed is like a huge four poster

1008
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:55,360
Speaker 2: like cedar bed.

1009
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 1: Hmmm, that's interesting.

1010
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 2: Like I think he's folding onto he I think he's

1011
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:06,240
Speaker 2: holding onto wood in some way. Also, he is someone

1012
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 2: who loves technology, so I think there are like so

1013
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:12,359
Speaker 2: many silly things where it's like this side of the

1014
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 2: wall actually is a cooling wall.

1015
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 1: Yes, but I do think it's a kind of in

1016
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 1: this early two thousands way. Like the kitchen like has

1017
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 1: like one of those hoods that's like the curved glass

1018
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 1: hood m. There's a lot of like maroon like kitchen

1019
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 1: cabinetry and like.

1020
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, like I don't think he has that fridge with

1021
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 2: the TV that like can charge your phone in it.

1022
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 1: No, but he has a fridge that like has that

1023
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 1: actual voice. Yes, it has like a voice. I think

1024
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 1: it is ice activated fridge, Hello Steve. Yeah, it's more

1025
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 1: the dream of what technology is. And he's like programming

1026
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 1: his garage door opener to like play like Kukaracha, like

1027
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 1: be silly.

1028
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 2: Definitely, which was my dream always as child, was like

1029
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:55,759
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have an apartment and when I walk in

1030
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:58,240
Speaker 2: the door, there's gonna be a censor that plays Sinatra.

1031
00:50:58,680 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 1: O babe, we can do that?

1032
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 2: Which happened for you to do that?

1033
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:03,279
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1034
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 2: What does he eat? I mean he like literally I

1035
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:08,879
Speaker 2: think he just like loves like pizza. He's so like

1036
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 2: nineteen seventies, like in this like Toastino's pizza rolls.

1037
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:15,319
Speaker 1: Because it's like, oh, late night program, I mean like

1038
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:16,240
Speaker 1: we have to eat pizza.

1039
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1040
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, although don't you think his third wife is being

1041
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 1: more like I'm worried about cholesterol role, Yes, I mean

1042
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: I'm worried about this cholesterol.

1043
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 2: Right, it's salmon and salads. And then he's like sneaking

1044
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 2: a pizza, being like I was bad today.

1045
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:33,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they're also having just like a huge kind

1046
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 1: of like because he's so like warm Buffett and like

1047
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 1: I only have moneyn things that I need, Like he

1048
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 1: is Costco membership and they are massive like tub of

1049
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 1: like off brand cheese doodles that he's like dipping into, oh.

1050
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 2: In the pantry, and his hands are so orange.

1051
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, he's been caught orange handed.

1052
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,759
Speaker 2: And then like he's randomly thinking some snack is so

1053
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 2: cool because it's modern like a keen watchip and he's

1054
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:00,239
Speaker 2: like spends a week eating it, being like have you

1055
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 2: seen these things they're made? Get this out of pasta?

1056
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 1: Yeah? Okay, what does he wear like golf polos big pants.

1057
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 2: In his bear trip doctors, he looked a little less

1058
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:17,480
Speaker 2: sloppy than I had remembered. He was in like a

1059
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 2: sweater polo and just like big doctors. Yea, and then

1060
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 2: he was wearing a huge straight to Hell Kathy Griffin

1061
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 2: tor T shirt.

1062
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 1: So cute.

1063
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 2: Okay, who are you in the book?

1064
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 1: Do you think I'm Steve Jobs? Because I'm brandy genius.

1065
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 2: I kind of thing like I'm was your Jobs.

1066
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:38,240
Speaker 1: And you're tinkering away, But like I'm.

1067
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:42,040
Speaker 2: Not obviously like Steve was, because I like literally like

1068
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:43,240
Speaker 2: I know it ram.

1069
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 1: Is, but like coming back to this original sin thing though,

1070
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,799
Speaker 1: I'm kind of like you are like so social and

1071
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 1: you're not like playing pranks on people as a way

1072
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 1: to like interact with them because you don't know how

1073
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 1: to interact with them.

1074
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:59,240
Speaker 2: No, Ultimately, I think like I am someone he's hiring

1075
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:01,799
Speaker 2: to like help with one of his rock festivals.

1076
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're Emilu Harris.

1077
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm just like sure I'll play your wedding. Wait,

1078
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:09,360
Speaker 2: actually that is me. I guess I was like wads

1079
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 2: because I'm just like silly, but I don't have the

1080
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 2: tech expertise to like make a dial a joke like

1081
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 2: phone line.

1082
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 1: But I'm not jobs because I wouldn't lie to my

1083
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 1: best friend about money.

1084
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 2: You're not that evil, Like yeah, like you would come

1085
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,840
Speaker 2: home from a sex orchard and be like, Lily, I

1086
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:30,040
Speaker 2: haven't get this. It's so simple. It's just Apple, and.

1087
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:34,359
Speaker 1: I'd be like, wait, I mean like that's it, we're

1088
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 1: going with that. Sorry, that's that done.

1089
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 2: Like sorry, But like I don't think you're also like

1090
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 2: lying about the three thousand.

1091
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 1: So maybe I'm more like van Halen's wife.

1092
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, who's like Heather Lockler. Yeah, yeah, because it's like

1093
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 2: are you throwing a calculator being like send it back

1094
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 2: to him?

1095
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 1: Like kind of but just for the drama, I really

1096
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 1: hope I'm not the guy who sold his Apple stock

1097
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 1: fore hundred dollars.

1098
00:53:58,000 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 2: No, you're not that.

1099
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:00,799
Speaker 1: No, I'm holding.

1100
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 2: You're absolutely holding anyway.

1101
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 1: I don't know. I give this book like I don't

1102
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:09,760
Speaker 1: know two out of five motherboards, Like it's really upbeat

1103
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:13,239
Speaker 1: in a way that's almost like shocking. I'm sure there

1104
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:15,240
Speaker 1: like is some Mad for TV movie about the founding

1105
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:17,320
Speaker 1: of Apple that's so like the social network.

1106
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 2: I was gonna watch it the night did there's the

1107
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:19,880
Speaker 2: Ashton Kutcher movie.

1108
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:22,319
Speaker 1: About Steve Jobs. Yeah, it's like, I'm sure if you

1109
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:26,400
Speaker 1: were writing that movie and you're sharking or whatever, like,

1110
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 1: I'm sure you would find it really difficult to be

1111
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 1: inspired by this book.

1112
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:35,880
Speaker 2: I give it two point nine pongs out of pong.

1113
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:38,279
Speaker 2: What I liked about this book is it, like is

1114
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 2: very different from stuff we've read in the way that

1115
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 2: it's like literally about like a nerdy guy, like talking

1116
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 2: about Ram and being a phone freak and like starting

1117
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:50,720
Speaker 2: phone lines, which it doesn't follow kind of the norms

1118
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 2: of that, Like, it's much more in this nerdy guy's brain.

1119
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:59,399
Speaker 2: Was I skimming the parts about Ram, Yes, But that's

1120
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:01,600
Speaker 2: also why I like the book, because it literally is

1121
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:04,240
Speaker 2: just a memoir about Ram and like making remotes.

1122
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 1: And I thought there were some nice descriptions, like you know,

1123
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 1: about how computers work and binary code and how it's

1124
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 1: a series of switches and everything. You know, there is

1125
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 1: some beauty to the way he's fucking freaks minds works.

1126
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:21,800
Speaker 2: We're fucking nerds, like we're also known of those books. Sorry, dudes,

1127
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 2: we're not fucking nerds like ham Radio. Sorry take me

1128
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:31,719
Speaker 2: to the Mall and it's like he's so nerdy in

1129
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 2: the way that it's like there is just these little

1130
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 2: bits of tea about like his drama with Steve Jobs.

1131
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:38,560
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, he is just

1132
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 2: like the Segue billionaire who's so random and positive.

1133
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:44,239
Speaker 1: If there's one lesson in this book, it made me think, like,

1134
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:46,319
Speaker 1: you know, the joy he has towards the iPod and

1135
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 1: like towards yoursual computer, I'm like, I did have that

1136
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 1: joy about technology when we were younger, and yeah, and

1137
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:54,400
Speaker 1: like when our family first got a G four, I

1138
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 1: thought it was so fine. It was like so cool

1139
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:58,759
Speaker 1: and exciting, and like, I don't know, I feel like

1140
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 1: I so rarely have those moments because it's so embedded

1141
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:04,279
Speaker 1: in our lives, but like every now and then, like

1142
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 1: I just downloaded some new software for able to the

1143
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 1: other day, this cool new plug in, and I've been

1144
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:11,360
Speaker 1: enjoying using it and all the sounds on it, and

1145
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:14,239
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, if we can just find a

1146
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 1: way to recapture the joy of tech in your life,

1147
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:19,920
Speaker 1: And it may be obviously about having, you know, using

1148
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 1: it less, I.

1149
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:23,920
Speaker 2: Think having it less and then finding specific things.

1150
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:26,680
Speaker 1: But appreciating it more and be like, wait a minute,

1151
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:29,439
Speaker 1: it is incredible that I can talk to my friend

1152
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 1: in France on this device that I keep in my pocket,

1153
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:35,799
Speaker 1: you know, like reserve some joy for that, but like

1154
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 1: put it away it gets to be too much.

1155
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 2: No, I don't think I've ever been rocked as much

1156
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:44,360
Speaker 2: as I was when I got my first iod.

1157
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:47,719
Speaker 1: That was insane, being on the fucking tea in.

1158
00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:49,279
Speaker 2: Boston, literally being on.

1159
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:52,360
Speaker 1: Michelle Branch in my headphones.

1160
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 2: Crazy swirling around, going with that to Michelle Brand Yeah,

1161
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 2: wild times. Yeah, wow, now chic, it was the white

1162
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 2: It's beautiful.

1163
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:05,920
Speaker 1: All right. You guys, find your joy.

1164
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:09,560
Speaker 2: Find your joy in tech and like be happy in Tinker,

1165
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:12,080
Speaker 2: whatever you tinker with Tinker.

1166
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 1: Best best our producer on this show is the very

1167
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:29,920
Speaker 1: talented hand and beautiful excuse me, Darby Masters, whose serial

1168
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 1: number is F nine six G four l x W nine.

1169
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 2: This episode of Celebrity book Club Program with Stephen and

1170
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 2: Lily was made with eight hundred megabytes of RAM that

1171
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:51,720
Speaker 2: Christina Everett found, who was the executive producer. Our supervising producer,

1172
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:57,280
Speaker 2: Abu Zafar I met in a Hammer radio class. Well

1173
00:57:57,320 --> 00:57:59,760
Speaker 2: we just got along really well. We didn't hang out

1174
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 2: much outside in our freedom time, but we got along

1175
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:04,480
Speaker 2: very well in class.

1176
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 1: Our engineer who does work with a X eighty six

1177
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 1: based operating system is Beheed Fraser. He is very, very talented.

1178
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 1: Please hire him. We're all of your bits and bobs.

1179
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:24,000
Speaker 2: Our musician who made our theme song performed at my

1180
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:29,000
Speaker 2: cool music procival that I imitated from Woodstock. His name is

1181
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:29,920
Speaker 2: Stephen Philpschorst.

1182
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 1: We originally created this podcast on a NCR Doss Software

1183
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 1: Bus three point zero DCP seventeen hundred computer, which of

1184
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 1: course they do not make anymore. That was recorded at

1185
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 1: Prologue Projects and we wish them well

1186
00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:52,440
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I wish you all the RAM in the world.