WEBVTT - Bonus Against the Rules: Help in a Crisis 

0:00:15.276 --> 0:00:25.556
<v Speaker 1>Pushkin. Hi, It's Michael Lewis here. I'm nearly finished with

0:00:25.596 --> 0:00:28.476
<v Speaker 1>the next season of Against the Rules. It's like last

0:00:28.476 --> 0:00:32.036
<v Speaker 1>season in some ways, I'm talking with people about inequality

0:00:32.036 --> 0:00:34.756
<v Speaker 1>in American society and what it's doing to our idea

0:00:34.756 --> 0:00:37.356
<v Speaker 1>of fairness. But this time we'll be telling the story

0:00:37.356 --> 0:00:40.116
<v Speaker 1>through the lens of coaching and coaches, the edge that

0:00:40.156 --> 0:00:43.476
<v Speaker 1>coaches can give people, and who doesn't get that edge

0:00:43.516 --> 0:00:49.396
<v Speaker 1>in our society. As we all know, things are not

0:00:49.516 --> 0:00:52.836
<v Speaker 1>normal right now. That's why we're bringing you this extra

0:00:52.876 --> 0:00:56.116
<v Speaker 1>bonus episode. I guess I should first say I'm still

0:00:56.116 --> 0:00:58.956
<v Speaker 1>alive and so far disease free. But I've been doing

0:00:58.996 --> 0:01:01.676
<v Speaker 1>a lot of interviews lately with people who've dedicated their

0:01:01.676 --> 0:01:04.716
<v Speaker 1>careers to helping other people. This is an especially good

0:01:04.756 --> 0:01:06.956
<v Speaker 1>time to be talking to people like this, So you're

0:01:06.956 --> 0:01:08.796
<v Speaker 1>going to get to hear a couple of their conversations

0:01:08.876 --> 0:01:11.756
<v Speaker 1>right now. Once with someone you already met before in

0:01:11.876 --> 0:01:16.276
<v Speaker 1>last seasons Against the Rules, the teacher Katie Highland. She

0:01:16.396 --> 0:01:19.156
<v Speaker 1>happens to live in the containment zone that it's now

0:01:19.276 --> 0:01:22.636
<v Speaker 1>New Rochelle, New York, so she's been on lockdown more

0:01:22.676 --> 0:01:25.556
<v Speaker 1>than most of us in the United States first, though,

0:01:25.716 --> 0:01:28.596
<v Speaker 1>here's a guy whose work is also really relevant right now.

0:01:28.796 --> 0:01:31.676
<v Speaker 1>His name is Jimmy Chen, and he left behind a

0:01:31.716 --> 0:01:35.516
<v Speaker 1>fancy career in Silicon Valley to build an app, which

0:01:35.516 --> 0:01:39.876
<v Speaker 1>he's called fresh Ebt. It helps people on food stamps. Well,

0:01:39.916 --> 0:01:44.156
<v Speaker 1>it's actually formally known as the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program.

0:01:44.436 --> 0:01:48.316
<v Speaker 1>They're about forty million Americans who access this program. They

0:01:48.356 --> 0:01:50.196
<v Speaker 1>get funds once a month on a card that looks

0:01:50.236 --> 0:01:52.996
<v Speaker 1>more like a gift card than an ATM card, and

0:01:53.196 --> 0:01:55.956
<v Speaker 1>most of the state programs don't have an easy way

0:01:55.996 --> 0:01:58.516
<v Speaker 1>to let people know how much is left on their card.

0:01:58.556 --> 0:02:01.276
<v Speaker 1>They don't even know their balances, so it's hard to

0:02:01.276 --> 0:02:05.516
<v Speaker 1>budget and make smart decisions. That's a problem at any time,

0:02:05.716 --> 0:02:08.316
<v Speaker 1>but it's a huge problem right now with so much

0:02:08.316 --> 0:02:12.516
<v Speaker 1>food and secure in our economy. And Jimmy's got a solution. Hi,

0:02:12.636 --> 0:02:16.156
<v Speaker 1>this is Jimmy. Hey Jimmy, thanks for joining me. Hi, Michael, So,

0:02:18.196 --> 0:02:21.556
<v Speaker 1>are there peculiar anxieties that you're sort of seeing in

0:02:21.596 --> 0:02:25.996
<v Speaker 1>response as virus in the population that you serve? Well,

0:02:26.036 --> 0:02:30.356
<v Speaker 1>you know, we've seen a lot of people concerned about

0:02:30.396 --> 0:02:32.556
<v Speaker 1>not being able to purchase more toilet paper, and I

0:02:32.596 --> 0:02:35.116
<v Speaker 1>think that's a thing that you know, people are often

0:02:35.196 --> 0:02:37.356
<v Speaker 1>cracking jokes about in the general population, why are you

0:02:37.356 --> 0:02:39.996
<v Speaker 1>stocking up on toilet paper right now? But when we

0:02:40.036 --> 0:02:42.676
<v Speaker 1>talk to our users about that specific situation, they actually

0:02:42.676 --> 0:02:45.476
<v Speaker 1>have a very real need there. For a lot of

0:02:45.516 --> 0:02:48.076
<v Speaker 1>our users, they can't afford to purchase things like toilet

0:02:48.116 --> 0:02:51.916
<v Speaker 1>paper in bulk, and so they are purchasing toilet paper

0:02:51.996 --> 0:02:54.356
<v Speaker 1>every time they go grocery shopping or on a very

0:02:54.396 --> 0:02:56.996
<v Speaker 1>frequent cadence. And so if the grocery store is sold

0:02:56.996 --> 0:02:59.476
<v Speaker 1>out of toilet paper, that's a real problem because they

0:02:59.476 --> 0:03:02.396
<v Speaker 1>don't have a backup supply that they can use, and

0:03:02.436 --> 0:03:04.156
<v Speaker 1>so a lot of people are really worried about that.

0:03:04.516 --> 0:03:07.356
<v Speaker 1>So it's interesting because no one has explained to me

0:03:07.596 --> 0:03:11.396
<v Speaker 1>why that shelf and no other shelf in the grocery

0:03:11.436 --> 0:03:15.276
<v Speaker 1>stores that maybe the disinfectant shelf is empty. Yeah. I mean,

0:03:15.396 --> 0:03:17.916
<v Speaker 1>I don't know which way the flywheels started on this

0:03:17.996 --> 0:03:20.756
<v Speaker 1>particular one, but I know that for low income folks

0:03:20.876 --> 0:03:23.076
<v Speaker 1>who maybe haven't had the resources to go out and

0:03:23.156 --> 0:03:25.756
<v Speaker 1>stock up on toilet paper, it is a different level

0:03:25.796 --> 0:03:28.956
<v Speaker 1>of scary. Okay, so let me back up a minute.

0:03:29.036 --> 0:03:30.876
<v Speaker 1>Let's just start a little bit about you and what

0:03:30.996 --> 0:03:34.356
<v Speaker 1>you do like what your company is sure. So I'm

0:03:34.356 --> 0:03:37.276
<v Speaker 1>the founder and CEO of Propel. We're a technology company

0:03:37.316 --> 0:03:39.236
<v Speaker 1>that aims to help people who are low income the

0:03:39.276 --> 0:03:42.796
<v Speaker 1>United States to navigate safety net programs like the food

0:03:42.796 --> 0:03:46.156
<v Speaker 1>Stamp program and to improve their overall financial health. We

0:03:46.276 --> 0:03:49.636
<v Speaker 1>build a free smartphone app called the fresh Ebt app

0:03:50.116 --> 0:03:52.796
<v Speaker 1>that helps somebody who gets food stamp benefits or snap

0:03:52.796 --> 0:03:55.716
<v Speaker 1>benefits on an EBT card to see how much they

0:03:55.716 --> 0:03:57.996
<v Speaker 1>have left in benefits, but also to connect to a

0:03:58.076 --> 0:04:01.076
<v Speaker 1>variety of different social services to save money and to

0:04:01.156 --> 0:04:04.556
<v Speaker 1>find different ways that they can earn more cash. Are

0:04:04.636 --> 0:04:09.796
<v Speaker 1>you already seeing an uptick in users in response to

0:04:10.196 --> 0:04:12.676
<v Speaker 1>what's going on in the economy right now? We are.

0:04:12.836 --> 0:04:16.956
<v Speaker 1>We're seeing about thirty percent more usage each day than

0:04:16.956 --> 0:04:19.196
<v Speaker 1>we normally do, and to be clear, those are for

0:04:19.236 --> 0:04:22.316
<v Speaker 1>people who are already using fresh Ebt. So we have

0:04:22.396 --> 0:04:24.916
<v Speaker 1>also seen a lot of stats about how enrollment in

0:04:24.916 --> 0:04:27.196
<v Speaker 1>the food Stamp program has gone up dramatically over the

0:04:27.196 --> 0:04:30.156
<v Speaker 1>past week, but the way that the food Stamp program

0:04:30.196 --> 0:04:34.076
<v Speaker 1>is actually structured that those enrollments don't become actual cases

0:04:34.156 --> 0:04:37.156
<v Speaker 1>usually for about a month, and so we would see

0:04:37.196 --> 0:04:40.116
<v Speaker 1>that a month later as people enroll in the program.

0:04:40.516 --> 0:04:41.956
<v Speaker 1>So you're already saying it up. But what do you

0:04:41.996 --> 0:04:45.596
<v Speaker 1>imagine is going to happen over the next few months. Well,

0:04:45.636 --> 0:04:48.556
<v Speaker 1>I think there are a couple of different populations that

0:04:48.636 --> 0:04:51.316
<v Speaker 1>are worth thinking about here. The first are the people

0:04:51.316 --> 0:04:54.356
<v Speaker 1>that are already getting food stamps now. So you know,

0:04:54.396 --> 0:04:57.236
<v Speaker 1>there are forty million Americans prior to COVID and all

0:04:57.236 --> 0:04:59.916
<v Speaker 1>of this crazy pandemic stuff. There are forty million Americans

0:05:00.196 --> 0:05:02.916
<v Speaker 1>that we're already struggling to make ends meet in a

0:05:02.956 --> 0:05:06.396
<v Speaker 1>normal economy. These are the folks that are already using

0:05:06.716 --> 0:05:09.476
<v Speaker 1>the food stamp program. The majority of them are working

0:05:09.516 --> 0:05:12.076
<v Speaker 1>and have children and just trying to pay the bills.

0:05:12.316 --> 0:05:14.476
<v Speaker 1>So those are the people who use fresh EBT now,

0:05:14.956 --> 0:05:17.876
<v Speaker 1>and they're facing a very specific set of challenges as

0:05:18.356 --> 0:05:20.596
<v Speaker 1>this is kind of the financial shock that is really

0:05:20.596 --> 0:05:23.676
<v Speaker 1>putting them behind. There's a separate set of Americans that

0:05:23.756 --> 0:05:26.316
<v Speaker 1>we can also talk about, the people that are probably

0:05:26.316 --> 0:05:29.276
<v Speaker 1>one or two tiers of income higher than that and

0:05:29.316 --> 0:05:31.436
<v Speaker 1>maybe have a little bit of safetiscussion but not a ton,

0:05:31.956 --> 0:05:35.276
<v Speaker 1>and as a result of the economic shock here, they're

0:05:35.276 --> 0:05:37.636
<v Speaker 1>the ones who are newly applying for the program. So

0:05:37.676 --> 0:05:39.276
<v Speaker 1>I think those two groups are going to have different

0:05:39.276 --> 0:05:41.476
<v Speaker 1>types of outcomes but face some of the same challenges.

0:05:41.756 --> 0:05:46.316
<v Speaker 1>But how big is that kind of food stamp adjacent population. Well,

0:05:46.316 --> 0:05:49.836
<v Speaker 1>there's that popular stat that forty percent of Americans can

0:05:49.916 --> 0:05:52.756
<v Speaker 1>afford a four hundred dollars shock. Right now, these are

0:05:52.756 --> 0:05:54.876
<v Speaker 1>all of the Americans that are living paycheck to paycheck,

0:05:55.076 --> 0:05:57.436
<v Speaker 1>and it's not necessarily the case that those folks are

0:05:57.476 --> 0:06:00.156
<v Speaker 1>all very low income. You know, you can be making

0:06:00.236 --> 0:06:02.476
<v Speaker 1>seventy or eighty or ninety thousand dollars a year and

0:06:02.596 --> 0:06:04.796
<v Speaker 1>still be in that population of not being able to

0:06:04.796 --> 0:06:07.716
<v Speaker 1>afford a four hundred dollars shock. As we've spoken to

0:06:07.836 --> 0:06:10.636
<v Speaker 1>our user base about what past week has been like,

0:06:11.556 --> 0:06:14.756
<v Speaker 1>we have heard from people that eighty eight percent of

0:06:14.796 --> 0:06:18.316
<v Speaker 1>people who get food stamp benefits and we're working have

0:06:18.356 --> 0:06:21.836
<v Speaker 1>had their hours cut or lost their jobs entirely. And

0:06:22.156 --> 0:06:25.276
<v Speaker 1>of those eighty eight percent, the average amount in job

0:06:25.356 --> 0:06:28.916
<v Speaker 1>earnings that has been lost is five hundred dollars. So

0:06:28.956 --> 0:06:30.796
<v Speaker 1>when we talk about this four hundred dollars shock that

0:06:30.836 --> 0:06:32.756
<v Speaker 1>was going to send people over the cliff, that shock

0:06:32.796 --> 0:06:35.876
<v Speaker 1>has happened, right, So it makes what you do even

0:06:35.916 --> 0:06:39.316
<v Speaker 1>more important. Yeah, that's right, I think you know, broader

0:06:39.356 --> 0:06:42.116
<v Speaker 1>than Propel. You know, the reason I started Propel was

0:06:42.156 --> 0:06:44.116
<v Speaker 1>this notion that we have a safety net here in

0:06:44.116 --> 0:06:46.956
<v Speaker 1>the United States, that people who go through financial hardship

0:06:47.356 --> 0:06:50.156
<v Speaker 1>have a variety of resources provided by the public sector

0:06:50.156 --> 0:06:53.316
<v Speaker 1>and the private sector, and that those resources are aimed

0:06:53.316 --> 0:06:55.196
<v Speaker 1>to help people in financial need to get back on

0:06:55.236 --> 0:06:57.596
<v Speaker 1>their feet, and so more broadly, I think, you know,

0:06:58.116 --> 0:07:01.356
<v Speaker 1>this whole COVID nineteen mess is a real test of

0:07:01.396 --> 0:07:03.516
<v Speaker 1>our safety net in the United States of not just

0:07:03.676 --> 0:07:07.396
<v Speaker 1>programs like food stamps, or programs like Medicaid and unemployment

0:07:07.596 --> 0:07:09.476
<v Speaker 1>and so on that also have to pick up the

0:07:09.476 --> 0:07:11.596
<v Speaker 1>slack and are seeing tons of more traffic these days

0:07:11.796 --> 0:07:14.276
<v Speaker 1>as people are looking to these safety net programs to

0:07:14.316 --> 0:07:17.596
<v Speaker 1>help them to get through this really unusual time. How

0:07:17.636 --> 0:07:20.236
<v Speaker 1>long did you start the company. I started the company

0:07:20.236 --> 0:07:23.116
<v Speaker 1>about five and a half years ago. How did this happen? Well,

0:07:23.156 --> 0:07:26.436
<v Speaker 1>I grew up in a loving and supportive family that

0:07:26.636 --> 0:07:29.476
<v Speaker 1>also experienced a financial shock and had trouble putting food

0:07:29.476 --> 0:07:32.396
<v Speaker 1>on the table. I think, like most American families, we

0:07:32.396 --> 0:07:34.476
<v Speaker 1>were sort of on the edge financially, and then when

0:07:34.516 --> 0:07:36.636
<v Speaker 1>my dad lost his job when I was about ten,

0:07:36.916 --> 0:07:38.716
<v Speaker 1>you know, we had a few years of just really

0:07:38.756 --> 0:07:42.276
<v Speaker 1>tough financial times. I was fortunate to go to college

0:07:42.276 --> 0:07:45.876
<v Speaker 1>on a full scholarship on financial need and then spent

0:07:45.956 --> 0:07:48.676
<v Speaker 1>a few years working in different software companies in Silicon

0:07:48.756 --> 0:07:52.196
<v Speaker 1>Valley after I graduated from college. And one of the

0:07:52.196 --> 0:07:54.556
<v Speaker 1>things that just really struck me after spending years working

0:07:54.556 --> 0:07:57.316
<v Speaker 1>in Silicon Valley and these tech companies is just how

0:07:57.436 --> 0:08:01.596
<v Speaker 1>people solve the problems that they understand. And that's by

0:08:01.636 --> 0:08:03.956
<v Speaker 1>and large the reason why so many products that come

0:08:03.956 --> 0:08:06.916
<v Speaker 1>out of Silicon Valley are solving the problems of twenty

0:08:06.956 --> 0:08:10.676
<v Speaker 1>to thirty year old men. Yes, who live in cities

0:08:10.716 --> 0:08:12.876
<v Speaker 1>and have gone to college. And are you know there's

0:08:12.956 --> 0:08:15.316
<v Speaker 1>a demographic bias to the software that we create due

0:08:15.356 --> 0:08:18.516
<v Speaker 1>to the problems that tech entrepreneurs understand. Yeah, it's funny

0:08:18.516 --> 0:08:23.636
<v Speaker 1>to think of Silicon Valley as a geek problem solution factory. Exactly, exactly.

0:08:23.756 --> 0:08:26.516
<v Speaker 1>There are forty million people on food stamps. You went

0:08:26.516 --> 0:08:28.476
<v Speaker 1>out with some of them in New York City. I'm

0:08:28.556 --> 0:08:30.996
<v Speaker 1>just curious, when you're out kind of watching the way

0:08:30.996 --> 0:08:35.076
<v Speaker 1>the program works, what kind of insights do you glean?

0:08:35.396 --> 0:08:37.156
<v Speaker 1>What kind of things do you learn about people who

0:08:37.156 --> 0:08:41.276
<v Speaker 1>are living with very low income well, actually I went

0:08:41.316 --> 0:08:43.836
<v Speaker 1>to a food stamp office in Brooklyn to apply for

0:08:43.836 --> 0:08:47.076
<v Speaker 1>food stamps myself, and there were a number of things

0:08:47.116 --> 0:08:49.076
<v Speaker 1>that were surprising to me about that that I learned

0:08:49.116 --> 0:08:51.036
<v Speaker 1>from that particular trip. But the first one is that

0:08:51.116 --> 0:08:54.436
<v Speaker 1>just I walked into the food stamp office and here

0:08:54.436 --> 0:08:56.516
<v Speaker 1>in this office, this is back in twenty fourteen, there

0:08:56.516 --> 0:08:58.876
<v Speaker 1>were maybe a couple hundred people who were waiting in line,

0:08:59.596 --> 0:09:02.156
<v Speaker 1>and most people waiting in line were passing the time

0:09:02.276 --> 0:09:04.556
<v Speaker 1>the same way that most people do when they have

0:09:04.556 --> 0:09:06.836
<v Speaker 1>an hour to wait, which is they pull out a smartphone.

0:09:07.476 --> 0:09:11.836
<v Speaker 1>So here are lines of hundreds of people all waiting

0:09:11.836 --> 0:09:13.836
<v Speaker 1>in line to see a human case worker and fill

0:09:13.836 --> 0:09:15.796
<v Speaker 1>out a paper form. That is the same for everyone

0:09:16.116 --> 0:09:18.476
<v Speaker 1>passing the time with a smartphone in their hands that

0:09:18.556 --> 0:09:21.076
<v Speaker 1>has the ability to solve a lot of those bureaucratic

0:09:21.116 --> 0:09:23.036
<v Speaker 1>challenges for them. And so this was sort of raised

0:09:23.036 --> 0:09:25.676
<v Speaker 1>the initial question. It seemed like the problem was not

0:09:25.876 --> 0:09:29.596
<v Speaker 1>hardware that actually most low income Americans these days have

0:09:29.676 --> 0:09:32.716
<v Speaker 1>accessed to smartphones that can access the Internet. The problem

0:09:32.916 --> 0:09:36.396
<v Speaker 1>was software that those phones didn't seem to have the

0:09:36.436 --> 0:09:38.556
<v Speaker 1>software that was built for them that would actually address

0:09:38.596 --> 0:09:40.876
<v Speaker 1>their needs and was actually built for the SNAP program,

0:09:40.876 --> 0:09:42.556
<v Speaker 1>and to me, a large part of that was because

0:09:42.836 --> 0:09:45.156
<v Speaker 1>there was a blindness in Silicon Valley to the problems

0:09:45.196 --> 0:09:47.476
<v Speaker 1>that people in food stamps have. So walk me to

0:09:47.516 --> 0:09:49.836
<v Speaker 1>the point where you decide how to address the problem

0:09:49.876 --> 0:09:54.116
<v Speaker 1>in the way you've addressed the problem. So I was

0:09:54.156 --> 0:09:57.196
<v Speaker 1>spending time. You know, this is after we had already

0:09:57.276 --> 0:10:00.116
<v Speaker 1>chosen to start Propel. My co founder and I were

0:10:00.156 --> 0:10:02.996
<v Speaker 1>spending time in grocery stores in Philadelphia trying to learn

0:10:03.036 --> 0:10:04.916
<v Speaker 1>more about what it was like to go grocery shopping

0:10:04.956 --> 0:10:06.796
<v Speaker 1>with an EPT card and what was different about it.

0:10:07.396 --> 0:10:10.276
<v Speaker 1>And there is a woman we spoke to those Well,

0:10:10.316 --> 0:10:11.516
<v Speaker 1>the first thing that I do is I called a

0:10:11.516 --> 0:10:13.476
<v Speaker 1>phone number on the back of the card, and we said, okay,

0:10:13.476 --> 0:10:15.676
<v Speaker 1>can you call the phone number for us? She pulled

0:10:15.676 --> 0:10:17.996
<v Speaker 1>out her phone. She had the phone number for the

0:10:18.036 --> 0:10:21.636
<v Speaker 1>EBT card saved on speed dial, and then when the

0:10:21.756 --> 0:10:25.116
<v Speaker 1>automated voice started talking, she immediately, without having to look

0:10:25.116 --> 0:10:27.596
<v Speaker 1>at her card, typed in her EBT card number purely

0:10:27.596 --> 0:10:30.036
<v Speaker 1>for memory. And when we asked her how she was

0:10:30.036 --> 0:10:31.436
<v Speaker 1>able to do that, she said, well, I have to

0:10:31.436 --> 0:10:33.796
<v Speaker 1>call this phone number every time I go grocery shopping,

0:10:34.076 --> 0:10:37.196
<v Speaker 1>and so I've memorized my card number. We later found

0:10:37.196 --> 0:10:39.556
<v Speaker 1>out that this is probably the most commonly called phone

0:10:39.596 --> 0:10:41.436
<v Speaker 1>number in the United States, the one to call it

0:10:41.476 --> 0:10:44.236
<v Speaker 1>to check your balance on your EBT card. So, if

0:10:44.276 --> 0:10:46.276
<v Speaker 1>you were like, in this period we're about to go

0:10:46.356 --> 0:10:50.636
<v Speaker 1>through are going through, if you were advising the various

0:10:50.636 --> 0:10:54.116
<v Speaker 1>bureaucracies that interface with people who are landing in the

0:10:54.116 --> 0:10:56.636
<v Speaker 1>social safety net, like, what would you tell them? What

0:10:56.716 --> 0:10:59.916
<v Speaker 1>would you suggest? Well, I would first paint the picture

0:11:00.156 --> 0:11:02.676
<v Speaker 1>of what the past couple of weeks have been like

0:11:02.836 --> 0:11:05.876
<v Speaker 1>for the forty million Americans who get foodstamp benefits, and

0:11:06.556 --> 0:11:09.396
<v Speaker 1>what we've really heard from people over the past few days.

0:11:09.396 --> 0:11:12.556
<v Speaker 1>In particulars, it's clear that people are facing impossible choices.

0:11:13.276 --> 0:11:15.676
<v Speaker 1>I mentioned that eighty eight percent of people who get

0:11:15.716 --> 0:11:19.756
<v Speaker 1>food stamp benefits and are working have lost some amount

0:11:19.836 --> 0:11:22.836
<v Speaker 1>of wages, either because their hours have been cut or

0:11:22.876 --> 0:11:25.916
<v Speaker 1>because they've been laid off entirely. And so people are

0:11:25.956 --> 0:11:29.356
<v Speaker 1>dealing with a fairly unprecedented kind of a financial challenge

0:11:29.356 --> 0:11:31.836
<v Speaker 1>where they can't make ends meet based on their earned income.

0:11:32.076 --> 0:11:33.916
<v Speaker 1>You know, the other side of that challenge is that

0:11:34.076 --> 0:11:36.236
<v Speaker 1>at the same time, a lot of those families have

0:11:36.356 --> 0:11:40.636
<v Speaker 1>children and those kids were previously getting a free or

0:11:40.676 --> 0:11:44.316
<v Speaker 1>reduced priced school lunch, and those kids are now at home,

0:11:44.436 --> 0:11:46.236
<v Speaker 1>and you have to feed those kids in extra meal

0:11:46.276 --> 0:11:49.156
<v Speaker 1>each day. And so these are some of the challenges

0:11:49.156 --> 0:11:51.196
<v Speaker 1>that are really compounding. We've started to hear from our

0:11:51.276 --> 0:11:53.916
<v Speaker 1>users that you know, they've had to pick between food

0:11:53.916 --> 0:11:57.036
<v Speaker 1>for their kids or gas, or taking time to go

0:11:57.076 --> 0:11:59.876
<v Speaker 1>find a job, or people that are missing work because

0:12:00.036 --> 0:12:02.676
<v Speaker 1>of the hours at their employer and not having childcare

0:12:02.716 --> 0:12:04.796
<v Speaker 1>for their kids because their kids are home from school.

0:12:05.476 --> 0:12:07.636
<v Speaker 1>We heard a story pretty recently from someone who is

0:12:07.676 --> 0:12:12.036
<v Speaker 1>thinking about, you know, her money is super tight this month,

0:12:12.076 --> 0:12:14.236
<v Speaker 1>and so does she spend our money buying a dinner

0:12:14.236 --> 0:12:16.956
<v Speaker 1>for herself or buying formula for her child? It shows

0:12:17.036 --> 0:12:20.556
<v Speaker 1>formula for her child. I think the whole pandemic has

0:12:20.596 --> 0:12:24.636
<v Speaker 1>been anxiety inducing for everyone, regardless of your income and

0:12:24.716 --> 0:12:27.396
<v Speaker 1>regardless of your resource level. But for people that were

0:12:27.436 --> 0:12:30.796
<v Speaker 1>already struggling financially, I think it's just compounded and been

0:12:30.836 --> 0:12:34.476
<v Speaker 1>a really really challenging situation to go navigate. So the

0:12:34.516 --> 0:12:37.716
<v Speaker 1>food stamp program actually deposits each person's benefits on a

0:12:37.796 --> 0:12:41.556
<v Speaker 1>monthly cycle, and that is intentionally staggered throughout the month,

0:12:41.596 --> 0:12:43.556
<v Speaker 1>So not everyone gets their food stamps on the first

0:12:43.596 --> 0:12:45.996
<v Speaker 1>of the month. Oftentimes people will get their benefits on

0:12:45.996 --> 0:12:48.836
<v Speaker 1>the fifteenth or the twentieth, depending, you know, usually on

0:12:48.956 --> 0:12:52.996
<v Speaker 1>some fairly random thing like what's the last letter of

0:12:53.036 --> 0:12:55.716
<v Speaker 1>your first name or last digit of your social so

0:12:55.796 --> 0:12:58.876
<v Speaker 1>you're lined up like school students alphabetically. That's right, that's right.

0:12:59.276 --> 0:13:01.836
<v Speaker 1>We've heard from a variety of people who get food

0:13:01.836 --> 0:13:04.876
<v Speaker 1>stamp benefits about how scary it's been over the past

0:13:04.916 --> 0:13:07.516
<v Speaker 1>week as they've watched their neighbors and their friends go

0:13:07.556 --> 0:13:09.596
<v Speaker 1>out on these shopping trips to try to stock up

0:13:10.436 --> 0:13:13.356
<v Speaker 1>to purchase canned goods and whatever else they need, while

0:13:13.476 --> 0:13:15.356
<v Speaker 1>these folks who are still waiting for their benefits to

0:13:15.436 --> 0:13:17.996
<v Speaker 1>arrive don't have the purchasing power to make that same

0:13:18.236 --> 0:13:21.516
<v Speaker 1>shopping trip. And people are concerned about, well, when I

0:13:21.556 --> 0:13:23.796
<v Speaker 1>get my benefits in on the twenty second of the

0:13:23.836 --> 0:13:26.396
<v Speaker 1>month or something, are the stores going to have anything left?

0:13:26.636 --> 0:13:29.276
<v Speaker 1>They want to stockpile this like everybody else. But if

0:13:29.316 --> 0:13:31.996
<v Speaker 1>your name starts with sly last name starts with a W,

0:13:32.276 --> 0:13:36.116
<v Speaker 1>you're screwed, right, You've got to wait until it's yeah,

0:13:36.156 --> 0:13:39.316
<v Speaker 1>so we'll have a bunch of listeners, how would you

0:13:39.316 --> 0:13:42.996
<v Speaker 1>advise them to help if they want to help? Well,

0:13:43.116 --> 0:13:47.236
<v Speaker 1>you know, we actually just announced a partnership. So Give

0:13:47.356 --> 0:13:51.436
<v Speaker 1>Directly is a nonprofit that does cash transfers. They Give

0:13:51.476 --> 0:13:55.596
<v Speaker 1>Directly team is experienced in doing international cash transfers, primarily

0:13:55.916 --> 0:13:58.956
<v Speaker 1>to people in need throughout the world. They have done

0:13:58.956 --> 0:14:01.156
<v Speaker 1>a variety of programs in the United States as well,

0:14:01.276 --> 0:14:05.196
<v Speaker 1>usually in crisis situations. And so we've actually just announced

0:14:05.196 --> 0:14:08.476
<v Speaker 1>a partnership with them to help our users to get cash.

0:14:08.836 --> 0:14:12.116
<v Speaker 1>And so through the Give Directly partnership, we are trying

0:14:12.116 --> 0:14:14.876
<v Speaker 1>to identify people who use the fresh ebt app and

0:14:14.876 --> 0:14:18.476
<v Speaker 1>are currently validated as getting food stamp benefits. We're focused

0:14:18.476 --> 0:14:21.236
<v Speaker 1>on people who are really dealing with the hardest struggles

0:14:21.276 --> 0:14:25.316
<v Speaker 1>because of the pandemic and looking to help them to

0:14:25.436 --> 0:14:27.916
<v Speaker 1>get a cash infusion. So, if I want to give

0:14:28.196 --> 0:14:32.356
<v Speaker 1>money to give Directly so that people who are don't

0:14:32.356 --> 0:14:34.596
<v Speaker 1>have money have some money to spend, how do I

0:14:34.636 --> 0:14:37.396
<v Speaker 1>do it? What do I do? Go to their website

0:14:37.396 --> 0:14:40.716
<v Speaker 1>directly So the Give Directly team is fantastic. Their website

0:14:40.916 --> 0:14:45.516
<v Speaker 1>is at GiveDirectly dot org, give e d I, r

0:14:45.956 --> 0:14:51.756
<v Speaker 1>ect ly dot org, slash, covid, dash nineteen. Jimmy, thank

0:14:51.796 --> 0:14:53.516
<v Speaker 1>you so much for taking the time. It's like a

0:14:53.556 --> 0:14:55.796
<v Speaker 1>total joy to interview you, and I'm really glad you

0:14:55.836 --> 0:14:57.756
<v Speaker 1>figured out how to do what you're doing. Thank you

0:14:57.796 --> 0:15:07.356
<v Speaker 1>so much for having me on today. Next up, Life

0:15:07.476 --> 0:15:22.556
<v Speaker 1>in the Containment Zone. I've been checking in from time

0:15:22.596 --> 0:15:24.836
<v Speaker 1>to time with Katie Highland, the teacher we met in

0:15:24.876 --> 0:15:28.556
<v Speaker 1>season one. She was basically being abused by her student

0:15:28.596 --> 0:15:31.556
<v Speaker 1>loan servicer. You'll get to hear some new stuff about

0:15:31.556 --> 0:15:33.676
<v Speaker 1>her and how her life has changed when we get

0:15:33.716 --> 0:15:36.076
<v Speaker 1>to season two. But right now, Katie Highland has something

0:15:36.116 --> 0:15:37.876
<v Speaker 1>to teach us all because she lives in the New

0:15:37.956 --> 0:15:41.276
<v Speaker 1>York suburb of New Rochelle. It was one of the

0:15:41.316 --> 0:15:49.676
<v Speaker 1>first coronavirus containment zones in the United States. Who would

0:15:49.676 --> 0:15:53.476
<v Speaker 1>have fuck, Katie Highland that before we ever met in person,

0:15:53.956 --> 0:15:58.796
<v Speaker 1>we would both be quarantined. And it's just you can't

0:15:58.796 --> 0:16:01.316
<v Speaker 1>even make it up. You can't make it up. It's

0:16:01.356 --> 0:16:06.156
<v Speaker 1>the most amazing thing in New Rochelle is a containment zone.

0:16:06.516 --> 0:16:08.116
<v Speaker 1>What does that even? What does that mean? Like? What

0:16:08.436 --> 0:16:11.436
<v Speaker 1>effect did it have on your daily life? My kids teachers,

0:16:11.476 --> 0:16:15.276
<v Speaker 1>my personal my children's teachers have just been phenomenal in

0:16:15.876 --> 0:16:19.356
<v Speaker 1>you know, getting ready for this remote learning. None of

0:16:19.396 --> 0:16:23.276
<v Speaker 1>us were trained, you know, properly on how to do this.

0:16:23.276 --> 0:16:25.196
<v Speaker 1>We've all just figured it out in the last couple

0:16:25.196 --> 0:16:27.876
<v Speaker 1>of weeks and put it into put it into play.

0:16:28.036 --> 0:16:30.476
<v Speaker 1>Are you doing it through Zoom? So I'm not gonna

0:16:30.516 --> 0:16:34.036
<v Speaker 1>do zoom because my school in particular, we're not going

0:16:34.116 --> 0:16:37.436
<v Speaker 1>to do sort of the live feed with students We're

0:16:37.436 --> 0:16:41.036
<v Speaker 1>gonna do. I'm gonna do something called screen Castify, which

0:16:41.076 --> 0:16:43.476
<v Speaker 1>is basically going to capture, like record all of my

0:16:43.636 --> 0:16:46.836
<v Speaker 1>movements on my computer screen. So I'm going to basically

0:16:46.876 --> 0:16:49.196
<v Speaker 1>teach my class like I do every day. They're just

0:16:49.236 --> 0:16:51.316
<v Speaker 1>gonna hear my voice instead of seeing me. So I'm

0:16:51.316 --> 0:16:53.716
<v Speaker 1>gonna go through all my slides with them and have activities.

0:16:53.756 --> 0:16:57.116
<v Speaker 1>And we've already been using Google classrooms. So it's not

0:16:57.156 --> 0:16:59.756
<v Speaker 1>going to be a huge change for my students, but

0:17:00.356 --> 0:17:02.236
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna miss them to hear that we might not

0:17:02.316 --> 0:17:05.236
<v Speaker 1>go back to school at all this year. That was

0:17:05.276 --> 0:17:08.716
<v Speaker 1>a really tough pill to swallow, not to see my

0:17:08.756 --> 0:17:11.676
<v Speaker 1>eighth not for them for them to not have a graduation,

0:17:13.716 --> 0:17:15.436
<v Speaker 1>you know, to miss all those sorts of things, and

0:17:15.636 --> 0:17:18.756
<v Speaker 1>to not have like a proper goodbye. There's so many emotions.

0:17:18.796 --> 0:17:20.796
<v Speaker 1>You know, you want to keep yourself safe, you want

0:17:20.836 --> 0:17:23.076
<v Speaker 1>to do the right thing for your profession. You miss

0:17:23.116 --> 0:17:25.036
<v Speaker 1>your students, but you want to be with your family

0:17:25.196 --> 0:17:28.916
<v Speaker 1>and stay home. So it's all very conflicting things that

0:17:28.956 --> 0:17:31.516
<v Speaker 1>are happening. I'm curious what happened in New Roshop. How

0:17:31.556 --> 0:17:33.756
<v Speaker 1>did they discover it was a hot zone. There was

0:17:33.876 --> 0:17:37.596
<v Speaker 1>one gentleman, a lawyer from New Rochelle, who was the

0:17:37.636 --> 0:17:42.676
<v Speaker 1>first person to test positive. And he actually, from the

0:17:42.756 --> 0:17:45.076
<v Speaker 1>reports that I heard, was really severe, was put in

0:17:45.076 --> 0:17:48.556
<v Speaker 1>a medically induced coma. He rode the Metro North to

0:17:48.636 --> 0:17:51.836
<v Speaker 1>work every day. He was a member at a temple.

0:17:52.116 --> 0:17:54.316
<v Speaker 1>And then other people from that temple started to test

0:17:54.356 --> 0:17:57.116
<v Speaker 1>positive for the virus. And that was a couple of

0:17:57.156 --> 0:18:01.076
<v Speaker 1>weeks back. So that's really how it originated, like in Westchester.

0:18:01.636 --> 0:18:04.036
<v Speaker 1>And then I just heard reports that he had woken

0:18:04.116 --> 0:18:06.036
<v Speaker 1>up from his coma and told his wife, I love you.

0:18:06.196 --> 0:18:09.676
<v Speaker 1>So I think everyone was really encouraged to hear that.

0:18:10.036 --> 0:18:12.796
<v Speaker 1>All right, Katie Hyland, go and save New Rochelle. We'll

0:18:12.836 --> 0:18:22.476
<v Speaker 1>do all right. Bye bye, all right bye. So that's

0:18:22.476 --> 0:18:25.156
<v Speaker 1>all I got right now. I will say this that

0:18:25.236 --> 0:18:27.436
<v Speaker 1>this one thing I've noticed about what's going on. We're

0:18:27.476 --> 0:18:29.716
<v Speaker 1>supposed to be in social isolation here in the San

0:18:29.716 --> 0:18:33.356
<v Speaker 1>Francisco area, and you're still allowed to wander around the streets,

0:18:33.356 --> 0:18:35.516
<v Speaker 1>and so now everybody's wandering around the streets. And I've

0:18:35.516 --> 0:18:38.836
<v Speaker 1>had more social interaction, though at a distance, with my

0:18:38.916 --> 0:18:41.716
<v Speaker 1>neighbors in the last twenty four hours than I had

0:18:41.756 --> 0:18:44.236
<v Speaker 1>the previous six months. So maybe we're all going to

0:18:44.276 --> 0:18:48.676
<v Speaker 1>get to know each other again. Anyway, I hope you're

0:18:48.716 --> 0:18:51.756
<v Speaker 1>all staying safe and well and sane, and thank you

0:18:51.796 --> 0:18:54.436
<v Speaker 1>for listening to our podcast. We'll be back soon.