1
00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:06,480
Speaker 1: I'm Laurie Gottlieb. I'm the author of Maybe You Should

2
00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:09,200
Speaker 1: Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapist advice

3
00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:10,360
Speaker 1: column for the Atlantic.

4
00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,040
Speaker 2: And I'm Guy Wench. I'm the author of Emotional First Aid,

5
00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:16,560
Speaker 2: and I write the Dear Guy advice column for Ted.

6
00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:21,360
Speaker 2: And this is Dear Therapists. This week, we're going to

7
00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:23,360
Speaker 2: check in on our guests from season two to hear

8
00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:24,840
Speaker 2: how they're doing a year later.

9
00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:29,400
Speaker 1: First, a quick note, Dear Therapist is for informational purposes only.

10
00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:33,000
Speaker 1: It does not constitute medical or psychological advice, and is

11
00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,640
Speaker 1: not a substitute for professional healthcare advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

12
00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,479
Speaker 1: In the sessions you'll hear, all names have been changed

13
00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:41,320
Speaker 1: for the privacy of our guests.

14
00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:46,159
Speaker 2: Today, we're checking in with Lauren from season two. Her

15
00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:50,479
Speaker 2: episode was called Lauren's Sexual Shame. The issue was that

16
00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,200
Speaker 2: Lauren didn't have sex until she was in her thirties,

17
00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,680
Speaker 2: and she didn't have many relationships since then either. So

18
00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:59,040
Speaker 2: when she came to Ask last year, and she's in

19
00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,720
Speaker 2: her fifties at this she felt really embarrassed about her

20
00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,920
Speaker 2: lack of relationship experience. She was convinced that men would

21
00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,200
Speaker 2: judge her for not having that experience. We also learned

22
00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,400
Speaker 2: during the session that Lauren had been responsible for her

23
00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,280
Speaker 2: mother's emotional will being growing up and her physical will

24
00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:17,880
Speaker 2: being later in life, and she actually lived with Lauren

25
00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:20,920
Speaker 2: then until she died. Lauren's mother gave her the message

26
00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,360
Speaker 2: in subtle and sometimes not very subtle ways, that she

27
00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:25,960
Speaker 2: should be there for her instead of being out there

28
00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:29,000
Speaker 2: and dating like her sisters who had full lives.

29
00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:32,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Lauren really didn't see the extent of this

30
00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:35,759
Speaker 1: imperative that her mother conveyed to her over the years,

31
00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:40,640
Speaker 1: and how her feeling guilty and disloyal really sabotaged her

32
00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:44,000
Speaker 1: efforts to be in a serious relationship in early adulthood,

33
00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,919
Speaker 1: and in fact, her first sexual experience didn't occur until

34
00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,720
Speaker 1: after her mother died. And as a result of all this,

35
00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:54,240
Speaker 1: Lauren really saw herself as damaged and she had a

36
00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,520
Speaker 1: lot of shame around this, rather than seeing herself as

37
00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:02,080
Speaker 1: being someone who was kind and compassionate and loyal for

38
00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:04,560
Speaker 1: the sacrifices that she did make. So let's get a

39
00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:06,200
Speaker 1: reminder from that session.

40
00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:09,960
Speaker 3: I guess I'm afraid to get into a relationship in

41
00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:13,560
Speaker 3: a sense because then people ask you like about your history,

42
00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:18,680
Speaker 3: and it's embarrassing one to be fifty three and single.

43
00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,680
Speaker 3: I know children, and you know when you mentioned that

44
00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:26,760
Speaker 3: to people, male or female, they're always like shocked. And

45
00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,040
Speaker 3: I've had people say, oh gosh, what's wrong with you?

46
00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:51,720
Speaker 2: And now let's hear how Lauren is doing.

47
00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:56,000
Speaker 4: One year later, Hi, Laurian guy, this says Lauren. A

48
00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,920
Speaker 4: lot's changed. I moved to the city where I'd wanted

49
00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:00,640
Speaker 4: to live for a very long long time, and I

50
00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:04,000
Speaker 4: went against everybody else's advice and moved where I wanted to.

51
00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,800
Speaker 4: I'm really enjoying my life here. The biggest change that

52
00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:11,959
Speaker 4: I made is just being nicer and more compassionate to myself,

53
00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:14,680
Speaker 4: and I think that's allowed me to open up and

54
00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:20,200
Speaker 4: deepen my friendships in relationships with people, I feel like

55
00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:25,000
Speaker 4: I'm able to be a little bit more vulnerable, more loving,

56
00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:29,680
Speaker 4: and I feel happier. I'm having deeper relationships, more honest relationships.

57
00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,800
Speaker 4: I actually met someone. I met a guy who I

58
00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,160
Speaker 4: really really liked, and for the first time in my life,

59
00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,440
Speaker 4: I was able to actually tell this guy what I

60
00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:40,560
Speaker 4: liked about him, what I didn't like. You know, if

61
00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,760
Speaker 4: he did something I didn't like, I brought it to

62
00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,280
Speaker 4: his attention in a gentle way out like pointing the finger.

63
00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:52,400
Speaker 4: He actually appreciated how I communicated with him. I ended

64
00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:56,240
Speaker 4: up breaking up with him basically because relationship wasn't headed

65
00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,600
Speaker 4: in the direction that I wanted to go in. It's

66
00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,160
Speaker 4: the first time in my life that I've actually broken

67
00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:06,040
Speaker 4: up with someone. So I feel although I'm sad because

68
00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:09,240
Speaker 4: I wanted to work out, I feel proud of myself

69
00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:13,120
Speaker 4: that I was actually able to break up with someone,

70
00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:17,560
Speaker 4: someone who I really liked a lot. And so instead

71
00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,719
Speaker 4: of just staying in a relationship to be in a

72
00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,359
Speaker 4: relationship where to get only half of what I want,

73
00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:28,600
Speaker 4: I decided I was worth more and that I wasn't

74
00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,880
Speaker 4: just going to stick around for crumbs. That for me,

75
00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:33,719
Speaker 4: it is huge.

76
00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:34,400
Speaker 5: I think.

77
00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:36,880
Speaker 4: One of the things is that Laurie pointed out, like

78
00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,800
Speaker 4: how I was really influenced by living with my mother

79
00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:45,160
Speaker 4: and grandmother, who were both widowed and never remarried and

80
00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:50,200
Speaker 4: never dated after their husbands died. So I thought about

81
00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:54,400
Speaker 4: that a lot, and I see where I was living

82
00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:59,000
Speaker 4: my life based on somebody else's expectations or just learned

83
00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,440
Speaker 4: behavior from them. One of the big things that I've

84
00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,160
Speaker 4: learned recently is that I make a lot of decision

85
00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,320
Speaker 4: based on what other people think I should do. Like,

86
00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:09,800
Speaker 4: for example, my sister is very big into telling me

87
00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,080
Speaker 4: what to do, and I realized that it's not good

88
00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,600
Speaker 4: for me to listen to her. My life is not hers.

89
00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,479
Speaker 4: I'm not a married woman with children, so I can't

90
00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:23,560
Speaker 4: expect to live the life of a married woman with children.

91
00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:27,160
Speaker 4: I have to live the life that I have based

92
00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:31,360
Speaker 4: on my circumstances and my wants and desires. I think

93
00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:35,279
Speaker 4: that being more self compassionate made me value myself more too,

94
00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:38,680
Speaker 4: not just relationships, but on the job. I was actually

95
00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:42,360
Speaker 4: working for someone who's a part time job and she

96
00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,640
Speaker 4: hadn't paid me for six weeks, and she acted like

97
00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,719
Speaker 4: I had a lot of nerve asking for money, and

98
00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:52,560
Speaker 4: so I basically decided one night, I'm just going to

99
00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,600
Speaker 4: tell her that was my last weekend that I'm working.

100
00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,120
Speaker 4: When I told her that, she was kind of floored.

101
00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:01,440
Speaker 4: She was, what, You're not afraid you're going to get

102
00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,320
Speaker 4: the money? And I'm like, no, I just don't like

103
00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,480
Speaker 4: the way I've been treating So I found myself standing

104
00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,520
Speaker 4: up for myself, which is a new thing for me.

105
00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,760
Speaker 4: So I think that in talking with you guys. It

106
00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:18,640
Speaker 4: kind of acted as a catalyst to start taking a better,

107
00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:23,800
Speaker 4: more detailed look at my life. So I really appreciate you,

108
00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,440
Speaker 4: Laurie and Guy for the insight that you gave me,

109
00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:30,040
Speaker 4: the things that you pointed out, and the advice. I'm

110
00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:32,240
Speaker 4: very grateful. Thank you.

111
00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,040
Speaker 2: That was really great to hear. Lauren has done a

112
00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,560
Speaker 2: lot over this year. A few things really stood out

113
00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,839
Speaker 2: for me, and one is the self compassion that she's practicing.

114
00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,400
Speaker 2: You could hear the joy in her voice where she

115
00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:52,040
Speaker 2: said it was like, this feels good to be self compassionate.

116
00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:54,800
Speaker 2: It feels good to be kind to yourself, and it's

117
00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:57,400
Speaker 2: also allowing her to be more vulnerable and it to

118
00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,359
Speaker 2: deepen her friendships. So I think that was a really

119
00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,960
Speaker 2: pivotal thing for her to really try and move away

120
00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:09,200
Speaker 2: from the judgmentals, criticism and become more self compassionate. And

121
00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:11,840
Speaker 2: it's part of a larger thing that she's doing, which

122
00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:16,080
Speaker 2: she's looking inside more, she's figuring out what she wants.

123
00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,800
Speaker 2: She's lowering the volume on what everyone around her thinks

124
00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,120
Speaker 2: so she can hear her own internal voice more clearly

125
00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:25,080
Speaker 2: and make the decisions that are right for her, Like

126
00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:26,000
Speaker 2: moving to the city.

127
00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:26,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

128
00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:28,240
Speaker 1: I love that. She said she's not living her life

129
00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:32,000
Speaker 1: based on others expectations anymore. And I think what's really

130
00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,840
Speaker 1: interesting is that we talked in the session about how

131
00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,120
Speaker 1: she missed all those years of developing into her full

132
00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:42,240
Speaker 1: adult self because she was living really at the service

133
00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,040
Speaker 1: of her mother for all those years, and then after

134
00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,640
Speaker 1: her mother died, she still didn't really have what we

135
00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:51,360
Speaker 1: were talking about, the self compassion, the perspective of hey,

136
00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,320
Speaker 1: I missed all this time, and it's okay that I'm

137
00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:56,640
Speaker 1: making up for lost time. And I think over this

138
00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:00,200
Speaker 1: last year she really took that to heart. She's had

139
00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:04,080
Speaker 1: a real shift in perspective and that shows. With the

140
00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:07,480
Speaker 1: guy that she was dating, she was very open with

141
00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:11,560
Speaker 1: him and clear with herself about what was working for her,

142
00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,000
Speaker 1: what was not working for her, and it sounds like

143
00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,800
Speaker 1: she communicated that in a very kind way, so she

144
00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:20,880
Speaker 1: didn't overcompensate. She was very clear and reasonable, and she

145
00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:24,400
Speaker 1: said he even appreciated that, and ultimately he wasn't able

146
00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,239
Speaker 1: to give her what she wanted. She said she didn't

147
00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,760
Speaker 1: want fifty percent of her relationship. She wanted a full relationship.

148
00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,640
Speaker 1: She didn't want crumbs and that shows that now she

149
00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:37,400
Speaker 1: appreciates her value, she knows her worth. And I think

150
00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,840
Speaker 1: that also showed up where she was standing up for

151
00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,880
Speaker 1: herself not only in that relationship, but in her job

152
00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:45,880
Speaker 1: where she wasn't being paid on time. So she trusts

153
00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,440
Speaker 1: that she's asking for something reasonable, and that is a

154
00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:49,560
Speaker 1: big shift for her.

155
00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,040
Speaker 2: It's truly a big shift. And we always point out

156
00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:58,680
Speaker 2: that when people make changes that then generalize to other

157
00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:02,000
Speaker 2: areas of their life, it means they made that change

158
00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,640
Speaker 2: from a very deep place. And so that self compassion

159
00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,400
Speaker 2: that she's been practicing, getting in touch with her own

160
00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:12,120
Speaker 2: needs and feelings, and even being willing to break up

161
00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:14,960
Speaker 2: with someone in which the relationship is going well but

162
00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,600
Speaker 2: just not well enough. All those really assertive acts, and

163
00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:22,000
Speaker 2: that sets her up to be assertive in other domains

164
00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:23,520
Speaker 2: as well, like her job.

165
00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:25,319
Speaker 1: And the one thing we didn't hear from Lauren that

166
00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,680
Speaker 1: I'm curious about is what's going on with her romantic

167
00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,880
Speaker 1: life now that she's out of this other relationship. So

168
00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:36,160
Speaker 1: is she actively dating? Is she asking her friends now

169
00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,280
Speaker 1: that she's more vulnerable with them? You know, do you

170
00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:40,920
Speaker 1: have anybody you can set me up with? Because that

171
00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:44,160
Speaker 1: makes it a positive experience. People love to set other

172
00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,640
Speaker 1: people up, people love to help people fall in love,

173
00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,400
Speaker 1: and she used to be so ashamed of her romantic

174
00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,680
Speaker 1: life that I hope she's opening up to people and saying,

175
00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:53,920
Speaker 1: you know, I really am looking for a partner. Do

176
00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:55,120
Speaker 1: you know anybody for me?

177
00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:57,920
Speaker 2: I also hope she's being active in her dating life.

178
00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:00,880
Speaker 2: I think what strikes me most here that the key

179
00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:03,880
Speaker 2: thing she did was that she was finally able to

180
00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:07,200
Speaker 2: change her story. And the change was that instead of

181
00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:11,200
Speaker 2: being this person who it's shameful that she never had sex,

182
00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:15,240
Speaker 2: she now sees herself as someone who had sacrificed so

183
00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:17,959
Speaker 2: much to take care of her mother. And what that

184
00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,480
Speaker 2: did is it delayter by ten years, and so very

185
00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,440
Speaker 2: soon after that she actually did find her first boyfriend,

186
00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,520
Speaker 2: she did have sex. Once she changed that story, it

187
00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,920
Speaker 2: freed her up so much that she's made incredible changes

188
00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,160
Speaker 2: over this one year. It's really great to hear that

189
00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,800
Speaker 2: she's finally living the life she deserves.

190
00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:43,200
Speaker 1: Next week, we'll check in with Hillary, an addictions counselor

191
00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,760
Speaker 1: who developed a new addiction of her own, to hear

192
00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:47,440
Speaker 1: how she's doing one year later.

193
00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:52,040
Speaker 5: For the first time in my life, I experienced physical

194
00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:57,600
Speaker 5: symptoms of anxiety and to alleviate those physical symptoms. It

195
00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,400
Speaker 5: felt really good to fill up my car and buy something,

196
00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:06,840
Speaker 5: and I didn't realize that that's what was happening until

197
00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:08,680
Speaker 5: I was six thousand dollars in debt.

198
00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,880
Speaker 1: If you're enjoying our podcast, don't forget to subscribe for

199
00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:14,840
Speaker 1: free so that you don't miss any episodes, and please

200
00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,640
Speaker 1: help support Dear Therapists by telling your friends about it

201
00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:21,080
Speaker 1: and leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. Your reviews really

202
00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:22,280
Speaker 1: help people to find the show.

203
00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:25,400
Speaker 2: If you have a dilemma you'd like to discuss with us,

204
00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:30,760
Speaker 2: email us at Laurie and Guy at iHeartMedia dot com.

205
00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:35,120
Speaker 2: Our executive producer is Noel Brown. We're produced and edited

206
00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:39,839
Speaker 2: by Josh Fisher. Additional editing support by Helena Rosen, John

207
00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:44,920
Speaker 2: Washington and Zachary Fisher. Our interns are Ben Bernstein, Emily

208
00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:49,240
Speaker 2: Gutierrez and Silver Lifton and special thanks to our podcast

209
00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:52,559
Speaker 2: Fairy Godmother Katie Curic. You can't wait to see you

210
00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:57,480
Speaker 2: at our next session. Deo Therapist is a production of iHeartRadio,

211
00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:02,920
Speaker 2: Fish Food