WEBVTT - What is the Disposition Matrix? 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:04.680 From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:09.080 riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:12.119 learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:17.520 production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:26.319 Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:27.800 my name is Noah. 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:30.680 They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:34.920 super producer Dylan, the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:40.080 are here. That makes this the stuff they don't want 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:44.560 you to know. Friends, neighbors, Fellow conspiracy realist Matt Noel Dylan, 0:00:44.640 --> 0:00:47.879 I was thinking we keep this beginning part short because 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:51.280 as we record right now, it's Friday, March twenty first, 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:57.800 and drone strikes are continuing across the globe US, Russia, China, Ron, 0:00:58.000 --> 0:01:01.720 pretty much anybody who can build a combat drone is 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:06.880 doing so. And they're doing so because, on the one hand, 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:12.640 there are tremendous advantages. Right, you're not sending a manned 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:16.679 F thirty five into enemy territory risking the life of 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:20.000 a pilot, you know, or you're not sending a special 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:25.400 operation in risking the lives of the people conducting that operation. 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:29.560 Yeah, I mean, you know, it's it's definitely a positive 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:32.600 thing when you consider the horrors of like past, you know, 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:35.520 trench warfare and all of that stuff. But it has 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:37.720 its own kind of bag of badgers in terms of 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:39.759 potential negatives as well. 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:45.040 Obviously, well, yeah, and individual human beings are being targeted 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:48.640 in places across the world for a myriad of reasons. 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:52.880 And the way technology has evolved in the access both 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:58.040 individuals and governments have to every person's lives, you know, 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:02.880 the digital lives that we all lead. Deciding who gets 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:08.320 targeted what gets targeted has become increasingly complex and yet 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:10.400 in some ways insanely simple. 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:14.000 Yeah, that's the thing. So on the one hand, as 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:19.560 we said, the idea of these sorts of targeted strikes, 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:24.639 they can ostensibly, in theory, save lives, but they can 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:28.000 also produce operational costs, just to put the petty part 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:30.040 out there. But on the other hand, they can lead 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:34.600 to disastrous mistakes, the deaths of innocent people. Someone was 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:37.240 literally just in the wrong place at the wrong time, 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:40.120 or made friends with the wrong person on social media. 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:45.240 This leads to the erosion of democracy. No fooling, no hyperbole. Tonight, 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:51.560 we're exploring an ongoing conspiracy. Who gets to decide who dies. 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:54.680 You know, here in the United States. Let's be honest, 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:58.239 it's not as though the public at large gets to 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:02.040 vote on the fate of every suspected terrorists. But our 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:06.440 country does have a system for determining this. It is murky, 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:10.360 it is powerful, it is fascinating, it is bureaucratic, and 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:14.000 it is terrifying. Friends and neighbors. We want to introduce 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:16.600 you to the disposition matrix. 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:21.840 So weird. Yeah, and it's not just the US. Remember 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:24.760 the old five Eyes group that once was that is 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:28.920 now eroded. I don't even know. I think there's just 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:30.840 one big old eye that sounds about it. 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:36.120 Well, it's it's uh, well, we'll see how how these 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:40.280 comments age because uh yeah, five eyes may be going blind, 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:44.480 but that might be a story for another evening. The 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:48.320 disposition matrix, Uh it sounds like a silly name, but 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:51.840 it's it's a very real thing. And to understand why 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:56.160 it's and why we consider it a conspiracy, we're going 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:59.240 to have to start at the beginning of the United States. 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:09.280 After word from our sponsors, here are the facts, all right. 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:13.960 The US is like other democracies in theory, it's defined 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:16.880 by rule of law. In theory, it's defined by the 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:22.279 rule of the public. You vote for representatives. We've said 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:26.080 it before. You vote for representatives who, in theory will 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:32.320 represent your wishes and desires. And I don't know, it's 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:35.760 something we take for granted so often. It's so weird 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:40.279 to remember what a huge change democracy was back in 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:43.440 the day, right back in the founding of the US. 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:46.520 Yeah, I mean, the concept of it on paper is fantastic. 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:50.080 The idea that you put your faith in an individual 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:52.599 who has the best interest of the people at heart, 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:56.760 and hopefully through them your will is enacted. 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:02.200 It's a nice thing to say yes and tell everybody yes. 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:05.039 And it's a difficult thing to do right in a 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:07.920 way that is fair to everyone. When when the US 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:12.320 was founded itself by conspiracy in seventeen seventy six, a 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:15.039 lot of other nations at the time were what we 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:18.880 would call absolute monarchies. What does that mean? That means 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:21.000 that if the ruler wakes up on the wrong side 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:22.800 of the bed, or they catch a case of the 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:27.160 Jimmy's a phrase I made up, they could instantly radically 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:30.040 change the laws of the land, and thank you. I mean, 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:32.559 it's nuts when you think about it. A monarch could 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:36.560 order the death of hundreds or thousands of people with 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:40.000 no checks on their power. If you're targeted in an 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:44.760 absolute monarchy, you have zero legal recourse habeas corpus, the 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:47.280 right to appeal, the right to even just go to court. 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:50.200 None of that's a thing. The king, the queen, anybody 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:54.800 in charge. They could just say, hey, go kill that guy. 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:58.119 Oh. Historically, the only real recourse that the common people 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:01.560 who are affected by this have is is revolution, is 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:04.880 further violence, you know, is overthrow. There was really no 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:07.520 other mechanism in place, and that, in theory, is what 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:08.680 democracy provides. 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:13.720 Yeah, there is a court. There's just one guy and 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:19.840 he's a Well, maybe I think absolute monarchy is a 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:23.159 great disc that's something we should use that somehow, And 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:27.320 that dude is absolute monarchy. It just sounds like it. 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:29.239 Malarchy. 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:32.720 It's the opposite of hot cheese, which is a phrase 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:36.240 we're bringing back on ridiculous history or something's cool. It's 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:43.440 hot cheese. Yah, melty malleable yellow so yellow melty. So Yeah. 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:47.880 It's a great point. For most of human history, this 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:51.880 absolute monarchical thing applied to any kind of rule. You 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:56.880 could imagine international situations obviously would get complicated, think of 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:01.200 the multiple rulers who bucked against the Athlete Church in Europe. 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:05.680 But domestic decisions were the whims of a single person, 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:09.600 and the only avenue for serious political change was not 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:12.640 just we said revolution earlier, but it could also be war, 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:17.600 or it could be incalculable tragedies like the Black Death, 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:22.200 you know, like the plague correction from the Rods right, 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:26.400 Because the point is by hook or by crook, what 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:30.800 had to happen was a great mass of people usually 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:34.840 had to die for some sort of lasting change to occur. 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:39.840 And if we're again being honest, a revolution or a 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:44.560 war didn't usually change all that much. It's just like 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:48.040 new management took over. There was a new parent company, 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:50.960 and they kept the same system as before. They just 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:52.240 put themselves at the top. 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:53.240 A soft set. 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:58.440 Unless we forget the year old assassination, which was you know, 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:03.160 a good standby very valid too. You could think out, well, yeah, 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:05.440 you could take out one or two really important people 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:07.640 and not have the same effect, but you know that 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:10.480 thing where where those people are no longer in charge, 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:12.360 and then you just insert a few other people that 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:15.360 are more to your liking, and then new management. 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:18.680 Then it becomes about like the ideology of the winning 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:21.280 you know, revolutionaries, like and if that's even that much 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:23.480 better or like, is it even is it self serving 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:24.400 in a different direction? 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:24.720 You know? 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:26.520 And this stuff takes a really long time to kind 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:27.160 of shake out. 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:32.200 Yeah, please check out our series on the concept of 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:37.480 assassination historically a spoiler, It exists and will exist because 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:40.680 it works. And if you're looking at the history here, 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:44.120 you'll see that the US and France and other emergent 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:49.480 democracies sought to change this system. You know, even the 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:53.600 most powerful person, they reason, needed to have some sort 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:58.120 of rubric, some kind of logic or system behind ordering murder. 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:01.960 The president, they argued, would be the servant of the people, 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:05.520 never their king. And that applies to prime ministers as well. 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:10.320 If we fast forward to let's say, Dylan, give us 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:15.480 a fast forward tunk you perfect stop it there, all right, 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:19.600 So we're right after World War Two, the US already 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:23.360 has a pretty bad jacket of when it comes to 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:27.199 democracy and theory versus democracy and action. There are all 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:32.520 kinds of disasters, massacres, genocides, assassinations. To your earlier point, Matt, 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:35.280 they run against the letter of the law, the spirit 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:39.040 of democracy. There's this new world on the horizon, just 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:43.720 like other management shifts in nation states, the US says 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:48.040 we're going to make a better world pox Americana, right, 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:51.040 global peace with the US at the top. And they 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:54.440 were able to do this because much of Europe and Asia, 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:59.280 you know, it was in shambles after this horrific series 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:02.880 of events ca World War Two. The planet looked around, 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:07.240 the human planet looked around, and they said, okay, never again. 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:10.319 But war never really disappears. 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:11.800 It's challenges. 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:14.360 Hey, it's like government, it evolves. 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:18.200 Yeah, I mean you know, I was looking up, well, 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:20.560 we were while you were opening the show bend. Just 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:25.280 are wars less deadly? Now? Like numbers wise? Like does that? 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:28.360 Does the data shake out? And like the soft answer 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:31.680 is yes, But there are other factors, like other forms 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:35.359 of collateral damage and maybe didn't exist because of the precision, 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:38.680 because of the range and the way that these kinds 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:41.880 of modern warfare tactics are deployed. 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:44.960 Yeah for sure, Okay, are we gonna can we do 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:46.080 the fast forward machine again? 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:49.120 Yeah, let's do it. Let's go to uh September eleventh. 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:53.200 Hey heard of it, all right? 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:55.880 I was there, not there there, but I remember seeing 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:58.480 it on TV in high school. 0:10:58.800 --> 0:10:59.040 Yep. 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:03.800 Just let's throw in a couple tiny little pieces of 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:07.880 context here, because as a part of that whole Pas 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:13.240 Americana thing, the United States going up against the Soviet Union, 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:16.720 we engaged in a little thing in Afghanistan and a 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:19.000 couple other places, you know, in the Middle East and 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:23.560 in Africa with Soviet Union forces the United States forces, 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:28.640 but as mostly trained individuals within countries, right, And we 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:33.200 had these proxy wars that occurred, which created a whole 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:38.240 bunch of militarized groups that were splintered further and further, 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:43.520 and a few of those came together and a couple 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:48.840 theoretically attacked the United States on September eleventh, two thousand 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:53.160 and one, and that created this brand new thing that 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:58.200 our democracy and a coalition of the willing decided was 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:00.440 going to be a war on a concept, and that 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:02.080 concept would be terror. 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.120 Yeah. I'm really glad you point that out, because that's 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:08.000 what we're getting to when we say war evolves like 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:12.760 government evolves, right, And it's just like that Philip Larkin 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:16.480 poem which has a terrible title, This be the Verse, 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:20.080 but it's an amazing poem. Everyone should read it a 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:24.240 war on a concept rather than a contained war on 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:28.640 a specific nation or a group of nations. The new enemies, 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:35.160 many of whom are radicalized by their experiences surviving proxy wars. 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:40.360 They don't exist in established military structure. We're talking shifting, 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:45.679 decentralized coalitions of what you could loosely call extremist groups, 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:51.040 and they're launching these waves of unpredictable asymmetrical attacks around 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:54.360 the world. Hit an embassy one day, right, or maybe 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:59.320 hit a single person, you know, via improvised explosive device, 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:03.320 or thenaby tried to take down an airport. By the way, 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:06.600 as we're recording, Heathrow is in some deep thank you 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:09.600 for bp me, Dylan, Did you guys hear about this now? 0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:11.040 And hereby Heathrow, what's going on there? 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:12.200 Uh? 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:17.680 He throw lost power, his massive fire and thousands of 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:23.360 people are are stranded at at the airport or tribe 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.240 or planes are turning around and right now people are 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:29.440 still trying to figure out what happened. The elephant in 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:33.360 the room there always is going to be is it 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:36.640 an accident? Was it on purpose? Sure? 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:39.839 Well, that's something else the factor And like I mean 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:42.440 in terms of this evolution of war. We also have 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:45.080 to think about like the evolution of cyber warfare and 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:48.199 you know, hacking of infrastructure and causing terror you know, 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:49.680 quote unquote in that way. 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:54.840 The weaponization of information. Gosh, great point. 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:59.840 So hey, let's jump back to war, guys. So the 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:03.439 United States government and that Coalition of the Willing realized, 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:07.240 especially after a bunch of countries deployed a bunch of 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:10.920 troops on the ground into Afghanistan, into Iraq and too 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:14.640 other places across the Middle East, right after September eleventh run, 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:19.800 right around early two thousand and three, they realized, oh, 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:23.840 this battle, it kind of reminds us of something that 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:28.280 time that we tried to expend Soviet resources by having 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:31.960 them fight giant proxy wars in this same exact place 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:33.920 in Afghanistan, in particular. 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:36.720 The Banber of Empires exactly. 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:38.880 Just realizing that, oh, we cannot fight this war the 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:41.400 way we've fought previous wars, even the last time we 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:43.200 were in Iraq. We can't fight the war like this. 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:47.680 They needed a way to target these far flowng individuals 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:51.880 in groups, right, and hey, they said, we've got this 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:52.920 new technology. 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:56.600 Yeah, this is the way I think we can. We 0:14:56.720 --> 0:15:00.120 can approach this on the ground through personal experience. So 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:04.640 a growing number of powerful policy makers are saying, look, 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:09.120 we're dealing with a new threat, right, and we are 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:14.720 functioning under military and democratic norms or policies or laws 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:19.400 rules of the road that are unequipped to deal with 0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:22.720 this new flavor of danger. So if we stick with 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:26.160 the rules of the road comparison for a moment, let's 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:30.560 set the scene. If we get some traffic, sounds perfect, 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:33.480 all right, You're an average person. You're stuck in traffic. 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:36.640 It stinks. You want to get out of this mess 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:40.440 of these shrieking orangs, these bumper to bumpered tail lights. 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:43.840 But you're just another driver on the road. You have 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:49.080 to obey the law. In this comparison, the United States, 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:52.240 more so than many other countries, is the most powerful 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:56.320 car out there. Uncle Sam owns the road. Uncle Sam 0:15:56.600 --> 0:16:00.120 makes the laws of traffic. So if you run in 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.480 to any kind of complication or a thing you don't like, 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:08.040 you can just change the rules. Right, And that is 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:12.520 what brings us to tonight's exploration. It's a struggle for democracy. 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:17.360 It's a profound philosophical operational dilemma. It's really kind of 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:21.400 a question about the soul of a country. If you 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:25.640 champion yourself as a protector of human rights, why are 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:29.560 you creating secret list of people to be captured, kidnapped 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:32.880 or killed. This is a true story. They were originally 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:37.000 called killed list. But this all these things we're describing now, 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.960 for this context, they have led our nation to something 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:42.600 called the disposition matrix. 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:44.640 That's right, that's right. 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:47.920 And it all goes back in my mind to the 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:50.920 Cold War. Back in the day. It was how do 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:54.160 you find out if somebody in their heart of hearts 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:55.760 believes in the other side? 0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:56.160 Right? 0:16:56.640 --> 0:16:59.840 How do you know? It goes back to Spycraft's stuff 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:06.000 and this paranoia about anyone could be a member of 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:06.879 the enemy team. 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:07.560 Right. 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:12.639 So, but in this case it's specifically, you know, they 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:16.560 use that what do they use that word when they're 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:19.000 talking about the war on terror? What they were saying 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:22.399 without saying it was the war on Islamic terror. That 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:25.280 is what they meant in those in those rooms, right, 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:28.000 and that became a thing that was not okay to say. 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:31.719 And but that is ultimately when they're in there in 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:34.960 the White House situation room on Terror Tuesday, they are 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:37.159 that's Yeah, that's what they call it. 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:38.280 It's like Taco Tuesday. 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:41.080 Holy crap, we're going to get into it. But like, 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:45.680 that's what this thing was and and probably is. They 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:49.240 were trying to figure out who could possibly be on 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:52.760 the other team, and in this case, it was anybody 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:56.040 that may be a part of one of these tiny 0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:59.879 splinter groups that are hidden away and unknown, and and 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:02.879 how do you figure out if somebody is or is not? 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:06.480 And that's why this thing, the disposition matrix, was born. 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:09.760 And we'll see other precedents that will need to lean on, 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:13.639 such as co Intel Probe, which also conducts what critics 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:19.040 would call thoroughly un American attempts to leverage a divination 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:22.479 for the greater good. We'll pause for a word from 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:26.480 our sponsors, and then we'll introduce you to the disposition matrix. 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:36.280 Here's where it gets crazy, all right, The term sounds 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:40.600 of twos, right. Disposition matrix? What is that? That's I 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:44.640 propose that's a thing where if someone is hostile to you, 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:47.000 or you know, rude to you could just say I 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:49.840 don't like your disposition matrix here, dog, But. 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:53.520 It's in a disposition matrix. Dodge you. 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:59.240 This, Yeah, in this sense. It is a concrete and 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:03.720 dangerous thing. It is way beyond a kill list or 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:09.520 list of names. It's a database. It's used to track, capture, kidnap, 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:14.439 or murder suspected enemies of the United States. And we 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:18.639 are purposely choosing our language here. Other euphemisms would be 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:27.680 rendition instead of kidnapping or you know, enhanced interrogation. Sure, yeah, disposing. 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:31.560 Of well yeah, it had everything. So it was a 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:35.080 person's full biography, right where they went to school, where 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:38.640 they currently live, the people they associate with. It had 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:42.399 stuff in there about what particular threat they could pose 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:47.240 to the United States or its allies again, like locations 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:49.840 where they've been or might be, like with probabilities of 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:52.439 where they might be, as well as a range of 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:54.360 how to get rid of rid of them as you're saying, 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:57.640 there have been like rendition or you know, kidnapping them 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:00.960 and taking them to a black site maybe somewhere in 0:20:01.000 --> 0:20:05.840 East Africa, or how to take them out like the 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:08.560 thing of those old lists we talked about with how 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:11.720 to take out Castro think many versions of that for 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:13.040 individual humans. 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:16.480 Yeah, again, it's way more than a list of names. 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:19.520 We're going to dive into that level of sophistication, as 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:22.520 well as the inherent problems. In a moment I think 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:26.960 before we continue, it is crucial to note the public 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:30.240 owes a great debt of thanks to a journalist named 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:35.280 Greg Miller. Back in twenty twelve, Greg Miller brought the 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:40.000 existence of the disposition matrix to the public eye. His 0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:44.679 investigative series is the first in depth look at this. 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:51.399 Prior to this journalist work, the mere existence of the 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:56.960 matrix was officially considered a secret. And it's such a pickle, 0:20:57.080 --> 0:21:02.080 you know, because democracy prides itself on due process. So 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:05.359 how did this bastion of human rights and rule of 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:08.399 law find itself not just put it out hitless, but 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:14.680 indeed going a step further and institutionalizing eurocratizing I don't 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:18.159 know if that's a word codifying the practice. The story really, 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:23.040 in this regard starts with a guy named John O. Brennant, 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:27.720 not O apostrophe Brennant, but like his middle name, starts 0:21:27.760 --> 0:21:28.000 with him. 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:31.160 He was born in New Jersey in nineteen fifty five 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:35.760 and could be considered a pretty classic American success story. 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:38.280 He started to work for the CIA in nineteen eighty 0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:42.760 and after that he answered an employment add or a 0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:44.520 one hat in the New York Times. 0:21:44.920 --> 0:21:47.360 That's how he got the job. I love that love 0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:51.480 he's reading the classified and he goes, oh, okay, yes, yea. 0:21:52.080 --> 0:21:55.040 So I guess that has very different recruitment tactics back 0:21:55.080 --> 0:21:58.080 in those days. But whatever it takes. He made a 0:21:58.119 --> 0:22:02.240 lot of particularly controversial decisions in his tenure, as well 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:06.120 as some pretty powerful enemies in the United States and abroad. 0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:12.800 Yeah, and he's he's like the success story that Drake 0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:16.640 wants to be. He started at the bottom of the CIA, 0:22:16.720 --> 0:22:22.280 and as you said, he rose through the ranks because 0:22:22.480 --> 0:22:27.600 of his fairly strident stands or some would say unfairly 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:32.000 strident stands on bending the rules in the face of 0:22:32.040 --> 0:22:34.879 a greater good or in the face of enormous threats. 0:22:34.960 --> 0:22:41.040 He's the guy who defended torture, extraordinary rendition, enhanced interrogation. 0:22:41.600 --> 0:22:43.600 This came to the four when he would be in 0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:48.120 confirmation hearings and he would say things like, look, I 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:52.359 personally don't approve of waterboarding, but I didn't stop anybody 0:22:52.560 --> 0:22:55.800 from doing it because we had a mission. And there 0:22:55.800 --> 0:23:01.400 were consequences to this. He was prevented from becoming director 0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:04.560 of the CIA or National Intelligence back in two thousand 0:23:04.560 --> 0:23:07.240 and eight. I want to say because of this, but 0:23:07.640 --> 0:23:11.919 internally he had a lot of power. He had the experience, 0:23:12.000 --> 0:23:15.240 he had the expertise. He was considered a top authority. 0:23:16.119 --> 0:23:21.359 Colleagues admired him. He was also administration agnostic, which I 0:23:21.359 --> 0:23:23.760 think is a very important point here. So when you 0:23:23.800 --> 0:23:28.280 hear us reference you know, one of the Bush administrations, 0:23:28.320 --> 0:23:32.360 where you hear US reference the Barack Obama administration, we 0:23:32.600 --> 0:23:37.440 have to realize that Brennan was there regardless of which 0:23:37.520 --> 0:23:41.280 political party took the you know, took the King of 0:23:41.320 --> 0:23:41.960 the Hill seat. 0:23:42.280 --> 0:23:46.119 So yeah, well, and remember that that's six years up 0:23:46.200 --> 0:23:49.320 until two thousand and eight. That's six years of sending 0:23:49.359 --> 0:23:53.520 people to Guantanamo. Sometimes taxi drivers that accidentally got caught 0:23:53.600 --> 0:23:57.000 up in the situation. Sometimes that is, you know, the 0:23:57.040 --> 0:24:01.840 suspected leader of organizations that gets Antiguantanamo or to some 0:24:02.000 --> 0:24:07.720 other black site, and it's torture. This guy oversaw with 0:24:07.960 --> 0:24:10.560 all the rest of the military and intelligence apparatus of 0:24:10.600 --> 0:24:14.080 the United States and a bunch of other countries torturing people. 0:24:14.560 --> 0:24:19.760 Mm. Yeah, and he was Look, there's no two ways 0:24:19.800 --> 0:24:24.560 about it. These programs illegal and ethically fraud as they are. 0:24:24.600 --> 0:24:28.080 They did, they did get actual bad guys, but they 0:24:28.200 --> 0:24:31.920 also got innocent people who just happened to have similar names. 0:24:32.400 --> 0:24:34.639 That's a that's a huge piece to remember to that 0:24:34.720 --> 0:24:39.320 taxi driver example. As as Britain is the White House 0:24:39.440 --> 0:24:45.000 counter Terrorism Advisor under the administration of President Barack Obama. 0:24:45.640 --> 0:24:50.200 He leads the charge to institutionalize, to codify this stuff, 0:24:50.320 --> 0:24:57.520 and his former colleagues and officials came forward, first anonymously 0:24:57.560 --> 0:25:00.520 and then later with their names on it, and they said, 0:25:00.520 --> 0:25:04.600 this guy is the principle, like the driving force of 0:25:04.720 --> 0:25:09.119 these kill lists. One guy. Daniel Benjamin later told The 0:25:09.160 --> 0:25:12.720 New York Times that Bretan had quote more power and 0:25:12.880 --> 0:25:16.800 influence than anyone in a comparable position in the last 0:25:16.920 --> 0:25:20.760 twenty years. So this guy is This guy is a 0:25:20.760 --> 0:25:24.520