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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from how Stuff Works

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Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark,

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Speaker 1: There's Charles W Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry over there, and

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Speaker 1: this is Stuff you Should Know. Yeah, a couple of

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Speaker 1: I T J. This is I don't remember what I am.

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Speaker 1: We've taken it before. How Stuff Works hosted it years back.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember. Yeah, we had, like many companies do,

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Speaker 1: as you'll see, we had when we were under Discoveries

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Speaker 1: tender Wing. They paid for someone to come to our

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Speaker 1: office and administer the Myers Briggs personality tests at gunpoint. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't remember, but I'm pretty sure I was in

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Speaker 1: E n F P. I. I don't remember what I was.

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Speaker 1: I'll probably say like three different things as we go

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Speaker 1: through this one, like just looking at it again, pretty

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Speaker 1: sure I was an E n F B. Can he

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Speaker 1: stands for pisces right? Or pooper? Yeah, let's see extroverted intuitive? Okay,

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Speaker 1: what is the F stand for feeling? Is a spoiler? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: feeling pooper? So we're what we're talking about where it

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Speaker 1: sounds like we're saying strings of letters, They actually do

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Speaker 1: make sense if you're familiar with what Chuck just said,

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Speaker 1: the Myers Briggs type inventory, which if you are in

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Speaker 1: corporate America and have been a part of corporate America

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Speaker 1: for more than probably three years, there's probably a pretty

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Speaker 1: good likelihood that you've taken the Myers Briggs type inventory

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Speaker 1: for sure. Like it's really widespread. I love it. I

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Speaker 1: saw something like percent of companies in America use it.

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Speaker 1: It's a lot. Yeah, it was eighty nine of the

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Speaker 1: Fortune one use it, right, And then I saw another

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Speaker 1: status It was from two thousand one though, so I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure how current it is, right, but they said that, um,

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Speaker 1: the the I think British companies somewhere between ten and

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Speaker 1: of British companies use them. So I mean it's who knows.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty wild. Guess that sounds like. But once they

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Speaker 1: have their own. No, the Myers Briggs test, they don't

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Speaker 1: call it a test, as we'll see, but the the

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Speaker 1: test um is, it's worldwide, it's translated into tons of

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Speaker 1: different languages. They and no, it's it's the Myers Briggs test.

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Speaker 1: And there's tons of knockoffs. There's tons of personality tests

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Speaker 1: in general, which really is the larger umbrella the Myers

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Speaker 1: Briggs test falls under, but it's probably the most famous

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Speaker 1: of all time, at least as far as pop culture goes. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna hit on everything from ror Shack to the

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Speaker 1: Myers Briggs, but we're gonna hit on them. But the

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Speaker 1: m B T I definitely UM is more of the

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Speaker 1: focus of this one because of its ubiquity, right, because

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Speaker 1: most people know it, and because it's uh one of

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Speaker 1: the overlooked past times in the United States to take

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Speaker 1: pot shots at the Myers Briggs type inventory. Sure, it's fun.

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Speaker 1: Uh So categorizing one's personality is nothing new. Uh, and

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Speaker 1: that's what these tests aim to do. Um for various

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Speaker 1: reasons which will go over later. But um, going back,

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Speaker 1: and this was a Grabster article, correct, that's right, so

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Speaker 1: you know it's good. Yeah, and Grabster was just our

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Speaker 1: show in Toronto. Yeah he was for the second time

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Speaker 1: he stood up and like did that victory shake? Did

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Speaker 1: he do that? No, he did. I'm a big fan

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Speaker 1: of that. That's old school. Oh it is. It's a

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Speaker 1: good way to go. It looks like you should be

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Speaker 1: wearing those dolphins shorts and just having crossed the finish

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Speaker 1: line and then you're doing that. Um. So Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: nothing new trying to categorize personalities. Um, way back in

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Speaker 1: the day, Uh, I know, on our Grave Robbing Live

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Speaker 1: Grave Robbing episode, we talked about the four humors, and

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Speaker 1: we've talked about them before, um, before medical science was

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Speaker 1: kind of a real thing. Um, it was an early attempt.

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Speaker 1: They talked about the four fluids, the four humors black bio,

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Speaker 1: yellow bile, phlegm, and blood. Uh and and imbalance in

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Speaker 1: those will cause disease. But they were also this is

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Speaker 1: something I didn't know, These are also linked to uh,

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Speaker 1: corresponding personality types. Yeah. So like the word melancholy in English,

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Speaker 1: it's an adaptation of the Greek words I believe for

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Speaker 1: black bile. There it is and and melancholy personalities were

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Speaker 1: associated with an overabundance of black bile. And Um, basically

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Speaker 1: you're alancholi, you're you're a depressed person, or you're very

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Speaker 1: reserved or quiet. And for thousands of years people thought

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Speaker 1: guy's got a lot of black bile. Yeah, that explains

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Speaker 1: his personality. The other ones are pretty pretty um interesting too,

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Speaker 1: like flag matic, uh flegmatic, I've seen flag I've heard

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Speaker 1: flag magic. I've seen it too. So like when you

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Speaker 1: cough something up, you call it flag him. Sometimes it

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Speaker 1: depends if it had like a lot of extra chunks

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Speaker 1: in it. It's flags But flam plegmatic, I say, flegmatic.

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Speaker 1: That's very laid back. Did you know that? Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because I looked all these up, um, because sanguine is

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite words. Um. And that's this is Hippocrates,

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Speaker 1: by the way. He kind of further refined these concepts

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Speaker 1: of the temperament. So melancholic, flegmatic, sanguine, and what is

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Speaker 1: it caleric? Yeah, choleric, yeah, caleric. Caleric is like irritable

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Speaker 1: and short and terse and curt Yeah. But the thing is,

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Speaker 1: there's something weird here, right if you are a thinking

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Speaker 1: human being who is not in a vegetative state right now,

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Speaker 1: and for all we know at this point in medical science,

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Speaker 1: maybe even if you are in a vegetative state, you're

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Speaker 1: probably thinking, Uh, it doesn't seem like anyone I've ever

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Speaker 1: met is just flagmatic or just choleric, or just sanguine

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Speaker 1: or just melancholy. Sometimes I'm all four of those things.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I go through those things all four in a day,

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Speaker 1: depending on how weird the day is. Sometimes I go

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Speaker 1: through all four of those within the course of one

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Speaker 1: happy hour. Sure, okay, right, And and that's kind of

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Speaker 1: the point here, and it's also the basis of any

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Speaker 1: criticism from this moment in the podcast here on out,

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Speaker 1: is that this whole thing that started back with the

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Speaker 1: four Humors and continues on to this in the guise

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Speaker 1: of personality tests, is an attempt to take a human

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Speaker 1: personality and say you're this, you're this one type, You're

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Speaker 1: this type, this is your type, this is what you're like, right,

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Speaker 1: And the human personality just too complex, too squishy, too

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Speaker 1: jelly like to be boxed into one thing like that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And we'll get into all the criticisms. So that definitely

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Speaker 1: is the leading criticism that is, Ah, well, we'll say that, Um,

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Speaker 1: that was a tease. It was good tease, because a

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Speaker 1: flagmatic one. All these classifications though, um, that we talked

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Speaker 1: about now are or most of them at least or

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Speaker 1: drive late at the feet of one man when called

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Speaker 1: young Yeah, who wrote a book called psychological types. How

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Speaker 1: do you say it? Though? In in German? I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It's um, oh, where is it? Let me see there

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Speaker 1: it is. I I can't even begin to do it. Uh,

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Speaker 1: psycho psycho sorry, psychologic is yes, psychological type. That's not fair.

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Speaker 1: It's so tiny. That was the problem because you, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I do ten point well you know me, you do

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Speaker 1: like sixteen point times new Roman paper, and I don't

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Speaker 1: want to waste it, but I also have to do

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Speaker 1: my job. Maybe I should go double sided, but then

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Speaker 1: my highlighter gets in the way. Oh yeah, it would

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Speaker 1: be a problem. Everything would be highlighted. You might as

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Speaker 1: well just dip the whole page and yellow ink or

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Speaker 1: something exactly. Um. So, anyway, Young wrote this book, that

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Speaker 1: book uh German, and had it translated to English a

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Speaker 1: couple of years later, and he created these four categories

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Speaker 1: uh sensation, intuition, thinking, and feeling. So those were his

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Speaker 1: four that kind of most of these modern tests are

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Speaker 1: based on in somewhere or another. Yeah, and um, it's

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Speaker 1: really almost impossible that I guess we could just save

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Speaker 1: all the criticisms for the end and just pile them on.

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Speaker 1: But it's it's really tough to talk about the stuff

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Speaker 1: and not like, as you present one fact, talk about

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Speaker 1: the problem with that fact as it relates to modern incarnation.

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Speaker 1: What do you think we should do? Should we just

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Speaker 1: save them like you say, because I can buy my time,

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Speaker 1: let's save the okay, and then you can just like

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Speaker 1: I'm not even trying, like I'm not I'm not going

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Speaker 1: crop circle here. I'm just saying like there's just there's

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Speaker 1: just a lot wrong with this. But um, even before

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Speaker 1: Young who created these the concept of the modern concept,

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Speaker 1: i should say, of personality types, and he created the

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Speaker 1: idea of introvert and extrovert, which say what you will

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Speaker 1: about you And and a lot of psychologists have a

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Speaker 1: lot to say about him, not necessarily the nicest things

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Speaker 1: to say, but introversion and extra extra version is so

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Speaker 1: widely accepted inside and out of the field of psychology

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Speaker 1: that I mean, if that were his only contribution to

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Speaker 1: the field, that's that's enough to to engrave it on

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Speaker 1: your tombstone for sure. Yeah. And each of those um

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Speaker 1: for psychological types he was talking about or modified by

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Speaker 1: whether or not you're introverted or extroverted, they all kind

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Speaker 1: of work together too. That was like the right, that

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Speaker 1: was the main thing is how you how you approach

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Speaker 1: life is introverted extrovert, and everything else is like a

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Speaker 1: sub it's kind of a sub section of that or something. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And and one of the issues with this, and I

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Speaker 1: don't think this is part of the criticism, but I

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Speaker 1: was gonna say I thought we were saving he was.

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Speaker 1: This was based on his ideas. It wasn't like he

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Speaker 1: had all this research and all this data. He was

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Speaker 1: a deep thinker and he sat around and and thoughts

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Speaker 1: of these things, right exactly, and then he wrote entire

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Speaker 1: books based on him. Yeah. But he's a very well

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Speaker 1: respected psychoanalysts, and he was part of the early movement

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Speaker 1: for psycho and elysis with Freud, they were they were

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Speaker 1: colleagues or young was much younger, um. But they eventually

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Speaker 1: said I don't like you anymore. Were parting ways. Um.

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Speaker 1: But as as all as psychoanalysis was really kind of

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Speaker 1: establishing itself, And if you want to know more about

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Speaker 1: that background in the origins psychoanalysis, go listen to her

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Speaker 1: how pr works the live show. We talked a lot

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Speaker 1: about that. Um. But as this was going on and

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Speaker 1: it was starting to kind of dominate the field of psychology,

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Speaker 1: there was a whole other movement, a parallel movement that said,

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Speaker 1: you know what, we think all that's a little mushy.

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Speaker 1: We like the idea of being able to quantify psychology.

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Speaker 1: And so even before Young there were guys like Alfred Bennet,

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Speaker 1: who was one of the indirect fathers of the Intelligence

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Speaker 1: test i Q test UM, a pair of researchers named

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Speaker 1: Gray and wheel right um, and plenty of others who

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Speaker 1: wanted to say no, no, no, no, you can study psychology.

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Speaker 1: You can study things like the human personality, and you

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Speaker 1: can type of fire, and you can add numbers. You

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Speaker 1: can quantify this stuff, and in doing so, we will

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Speaker 1: prove psychology as a science as well. So this, this

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Speaker 1: whole movement to typify people and put them into convenient, um,

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Speaker 1: almost numerical categories, came out of this urgent need to

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Speaker 1: science to establish a scientific basis for psychology. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: Young Uh, he's kind of laid the table for this.

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Speaker 1: And many years later, although not that many, um, there

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Speaker 1: was a woman named Katherine Cook Briggs uh and she

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Speaker 1: was working on this with her daughter, one Isabelle Briggs Myers.

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Speaker 1: Think you see where this is going. Uh. This is

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Speaker 1: post World War two when they women were kind of

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Speaker 1: for the first time really going into the workforce in

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Speaker 1: full uh and on mass and so they thought, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe we can put together some personality types to find out, um,

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Speaker 1: what kind of jobs these women might be suited for,

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Speaker 1: what types of jobs they might enjoy. Um. So they

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Speaker 1: started working together on this and um, as legend has it,

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Speaker 1: the mom Catherine Briggs Cook Briggs, she was doing her

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Speaker 1: thing and then saw Young's works and said, I gotta

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Speaker 1: start over. This is this is the stuff. She had

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Speaker 1: already been working on a personality test, but apparently, according

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Speaker 1: to the legend, through her work into the fire I said,

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Speaker 1: I'm starting from scratch because she's dramatic. She was a

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Speaker 1: voracious reader, especially of um the psychology, the new psychology

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Speaker 1: books that were coming out of Europe. She didn't read Young.

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Speaker 1: She did well eventually, but yeah, and then it seems

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Speaker 1: like it kind of came along later. Well, so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a there's kind of a weird discrepancy in the history.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know if it's just it hasn't been

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Speaker 1: covered right or if there is a weird discrepancy. But

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Speaker 1: supposedly she initiated it, and so it would have been

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Speaker 1: contemporary or shortly after Young's Psychology or Personality Types was

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Speaker 1: translated into English in n So. But it was her

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Speaker 1: daughter Isabelle who really took it and ran with it

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Speaker 1: because of World War Two in the need for women

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Speaker 1: in the workplace. Uh So they you know, kind of

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Speaker 1: kept some of young stuff built on that kind of

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Speaker 1: stripped some of it away, most notably a lot of

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Speaker 1: the unconscious stuff. They might have thought that was a

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Speaker 1: little too weird for you know, the modern American workforce.

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Speaker 1: Uh So, what they ended up coming up with was

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Speaker 1: the the m B t I Myers Briggs Type Indicator, right,

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Speaker 1: very famously. Yeah, and they had they had a publishing

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Speaker 1: arrangement with one group, I can't remember what they were called,

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Speaker 1: but they thought it didn't do very well, and then

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Speaker 1: in they went with another publishers C P P. And

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Speaker 1: they're the current publishers of the Myers Briggs Type Indicator.

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Speaker 1: And since then, that's when it's ubiquity, like just really spread,

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Speaker 1: was starting in the seventies and and now it's just

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Speaker 1: it's basically married to corporate America. Should we take a break, Sure,

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Speaker 1: go get married to corporate America. As if we aren't already.

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Speaker 1: All right, we'll come back and we'll talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit about personality tests in general, and then focus in

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Speaker 1: a little more on the m B T I S

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Speaker 1: K a good shouldn't all right, So UM personality tests

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Speaker 1: is just there are many many ways you can get

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Speaker 1: evaluated psychologically by a professional. This is just one way,

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Speaker 1: and you get your head measured with calipers and back

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Speaker 1: in the day they didn't give you a bunch of

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Speaker 1: jugs and see what you do. There's a lot of ways.

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Speaker 1: But these tests generally, UM, as grabs her points out,

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Speaker 1: falls into a couple of types, projective and objective. Projective

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Speaker 1: tests or things like the roar check test where you're

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Speaker 1: shown something some kind of stimulus and it's open to

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Speaker 1: interpretation and you tell them what you think about it,

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Speaker 1: and someone sits back very quietly and taps on a

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Speaker 1: pad of paper and makes an evaluation. And then objective

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Speaker 1: are more like these personality tests, their standardized assessments that

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Speaker 1: people use UM and while it's subjective what you put down,

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Speaker 1: they are then evaluated again by a professional. Right. But

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Speaker 1: ultimately that objective name is a bit of misnomer because

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Speaker 1: on the end of it it's still interpreted by a person,

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Speaker 1: which is therefore makes it subjective, right, and which, depending

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Speaker 1: on who you ask, is the fatal flaw of all

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Speaker 1: personality tests. It should be the like a good songs

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Speaker 1: from the seventies had a little parenthetical at the end

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Speaker 1: of the title. Should just say subjective also in parentheses? Baby.

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Speaker 1: Um So the Big five are and and this is

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Speaker 1: the Big five. I get the feeling or the psychological

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Speaker 1: tests that that legit psychologists are more in favor of

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Speaker 1: over something like the m b t I that right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not just there's tests to suss out the Big five,

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Speaker 1: the Big five or the personality types of the field

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Speaker 1: as psychology has come up with that. Yeah, but the

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Speaker 1: tests that that you utilize, that right, they kind of

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Speaker 1: think are more legit than the m b t I. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's not a psychologist alive who uses the m b

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Speaker 1: t I and their regular practice. There are not not

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Speaker 1: not that not that are speaking up. I guarantee there's

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Speaker 1: someone out there. Sure it's a freewheel and type. Where's she?

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Speaker 1: Uh So? The Big five are extra version, agreeableness, openness

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Speaker 1: to experience, conscientiousness, and neuroticism. Right. It sounds like it

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Speaker 1: could be like a dating site thing that you fill out.

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Speaker 1: It's funny every time I see or hear the word neuroticism,

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Speaker 1: a bell goes off in my head, like thing just

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Speaker 1: a silent bell. Yeah, I don't know what that means.

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Speaker 1: I don't either, but it draws my attention to UM.

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Speaker 1: So some of these tests, uh, I mean it depends

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Speaker 1: on what it is that. They might not all call

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Speaker 1: them by those exact words, but they're generally using they

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Speaker 1: call them, you know, like I said, the Big Five. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I was, I was looking into that Big five

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Speaker 1: and um, this this site, I can't remember what it

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Speaker 1: was called, but they were basically they're going over it

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Speaker 1: like extra version is again just part of the scientific

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Speaker 1: literature at this point. Um. Agreeableness is like whether you're

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Speaker 1: how sympathetic or kind or affectionate you are? Concientiousness is

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Speaker 1: are your organized? Are your thorough? You're the type who

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Speaker 1: shows up on time? That kind of thing. Um neuroticism,

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Speaker 1: which is some kind of sometimes called emotional stability. Um,

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Speaker 1: how tense are you? How moody? How anxious? Uh? And

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Speaker 1: then like openness to experience? Right, they sometimes call that

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Speaker 1: intellect slash imagination? Do you have wide interests? Are you

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Speaker 1: an imaginative person? Are you insightful? And this this site

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Speaker 1: really went to a lot of pains to point out

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Speaker 1: that what you would call these things. The big five

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Speaker 1: personality traits are, as far as the psychologist is concerned,

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Speaker 1: just one dimension of you, the human being, and that

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Speaker 1: to get a clearer picture of you, they would also

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Speaker 1: need to study your motivations, your emotions, your attitudes, your abilities,

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Speaker 1: your self concepts, your social roles, autobiographical memories, your life stories,

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Speaker 1: and if you're starting to put all these things together,

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Speaker 1: then you can start to kind of approximate the person's personality.

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Speaker 1: But it would just it takes a lot of study

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Speaker 1: of an individual and these different components that make up

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Speaker 1: their personality to get a clear picture. So I don't

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Speaker 1: think there are any psychologists walking around saying the big

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Speaker 1: five personality types are like the beginning and end of

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Speaker 1: a personality. It's just if you put them together, you have, uh,

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Speaker 1: just a sketch of somebody's personality, and you you should

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Speaker 1: go much deeper if you're analyzing someone. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: I used to think this stuff was a lot neater

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Speaker 1: when I was younger, and now it kind of gives

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Speaker 1: me a little anxiety. Oh yeah, yeah, Like I just

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Speaker 1: I don't know as far as doing this to myself,

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Speaker 1: and I still enjoy therapy, Like that's different, But I

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Speaker 1: don't know, because every single one of these, Like my

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Speaker 1: answer would be, well, it depends well, I think, I

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Speaker 1: think also though um, and I don't mean to speak

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Speaker 1: for you, but one of the issues that's that comes

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Speaker 1: up for me is if somebody goes to you and says,

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Speaker 1: you know you you you rate pretty high on the

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Speaker 1: spectrum of neuroticism, Like that's obviously you're gonna obsess about

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Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, especially if they're right. It can

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Speaker 1: make you neurotic. But yeah, it's it's it's a boundary

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Speaker 1: that somebody has just established for you that you may

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Speaker 1: need feel the need to stay in because that's the

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Speaker 1: boundary that you're bound by, whether you are or not,

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Speaker 1: like this is my box, live in it. That would

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Speaker 1: be the reason it raises anxiety for me. Yeah. My

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Speaker 1: whole thing, like I said, though, is just depends every

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Speaker 1: single question that I would get asked. Well, not everyone.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm pretty like set on something, but usually it's say,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. It depends on the scenario. Am I

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Speaker 1: more prone in a crowd to do X or Y?

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Speaker 1: Maybe maybe not? Depends on my mood. So one one

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Speaker 1: with these other personality tests and in the whole field

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Speaker 1: in psychology of um studying traits personality traits in a

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Speaker 1: quantitative way is called psychometrics. So with these tests, the

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Speaker 1: more sophisticated ones, if they had a test taker like you,

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Speaker 1: they're designed to get around that. So they're gonna ask

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Speaker 1: a bunch of different questions about the same thing, but

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Speaker 1: in different ways, coming from different directions, so that eventually,

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Speaker 1: if you put all of them together and run them

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Speaker 1: through statistical analysis, they're actually going to come up with

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Speaker 1: your genuine answer, which is kind of one way or another.

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Speaker 1: The other way they get around this um, that kind

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Speaker 1: of hemming and hawing, I guess is um. By placing

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Speaker 1: it on a spectrum, you're not being lumped into one

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Speaker 1: category or another. It's here's one end of the spectrum,

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Speaker 1: here's the other end of the spectrum, and based on

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Speaker 1: your answers, you fall somewhere around the middle, like almost

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Speaker 1: everybody does. If you look at psychometric tests, a legitimate

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Speaker 1: psychometric test is going to basically look like a bell

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Speaker 1: curve where most people are going to be distributed toward

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Speaker 1: the middle. I think, what, that's why gives me anxiety?

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Speaker 1: It's like, what's the point? Don't box me in it's

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Speaker 1: a great question. UM. Well, I think the second half

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Speaker 1: of this is a lot of what's the point, you know, Uh,

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Speaker 1: so looking speaking on these tests to see if it's

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Speaker 1: actually if there is a point, if it's a valid

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Speaker 1: thing to do. Uh. There are a couple of measures

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Speaker 1: that one must look at and that psychologists do look at.

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Speaker 1: UM is it valid and is it reliable? Valid in

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Speaker 1: the sense that it really is a pretty good reflection

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Speaker 1: of Josh or Chuck or whoever. And is it reliable?

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Speaker 1: So if we take this test tomorrow or a different

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Speaker 1: test that's UM just you know, maybe different questions, will

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Speaker 1: it reprove reproduce the same result? And that's a big deal.

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Speaker 1: Like you're talking science and you're trying to have a

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Speaker 1: foundation that says, no, this is science. It's not just

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Speaker 1: a bunch of questions and hippie dippy questions that we're asking.

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Speaker 1: If you really want real data and science behind it,

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Speaker 1: you have to be able to reproduce it. Um. One

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Speaker 1: of the other things too, that these tests are designed

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Speaker 1: to do is to weed out fakers. We'll talk a

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Speaker 1: lot more about the Minnesota Multi Phasic Personality Inventory UM,

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Speaker 1: which is one of the big ones, probably the most

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Speaker 1: taken personality test in the world. Um, and it has

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Speaker 1: a lot of built in mechanisms, and apparently it's really

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Speaker 1: good at detecting people who are faking they're faking a

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Speaker 1: mental illness or who are trying to pretend that they

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Speaker 1: aren't suffering from a mental illness. It's really good at

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Speaker 1: detecting that because it's so exhaustive and um using statistical analysis.

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Speaker 1: If somebody skewed really far one way or skewed really

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Speaker 1: far the other, they're just immediately exposed as as gaming

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Speaker 1: the tests as best they can. Yeah. And one way

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Speaker 1: they do that, which is in its own way, its

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Speaker 1: own little psychology experiment at least, is by telling you

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Speaker 1: we have ways like you will be rooted rooted out

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Speaker 1: and we will know. So they tell people that beforehand,

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Speaker 1: so you're more inclined to just be like, all right,

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Speaker 1: we'll screw it. I'll tell the truth, especially when they're

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Speaker 1: sitting there like clearing the air out of a syringe.

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Speaker 1: That's creepy. All right, So let's get back to uh

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Speaker 1: CPP and the n b t I, the consulting psychological

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Speaker 1: Psychologists PRESS, and the Myers Briggs. We'll just keep calling

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Speaker 1: it a test even though they say it's not a test,

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00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,719
Speaker 1: it's a it's a type inventory. Yeah. Uh, so we'll

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Speaker 1: just go ahead and break down the deal here there

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Speaker 1: are The object is to sort you into one of

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Speaker 1: sixteen different types personality types, uh, based on which side

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Speaker 1: of four pairs or dichotomy is that you're gonna fall on.

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Speaker 1: And those are UM at the very base, you're either

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Speaker 1: introverted or extroverted, Like we said, your eye, sensing or

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Speaker 1: intuition s and n um and these words they sound

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Speaker 1: little confusing, like what the heck does a sensing person mean?

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Speaker 1: It means you like the big data and empirical data

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Speaker 1: and a lot of information, right, whereas intuition is like

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Speaker 1: you just go with your gut. That's how you prefer

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Speaker 1: to be correct. Right. The next we have thinking and feeling.

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Speaker 1: Thinking being more focused on logic. Uh, that's a logic

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Speaker 1: with a t sure and objectivity. And then if you're feeling,

423
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: you're gonna be um more interested in in relationships and

424
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 1: harmony among your group. Plus two are pretty straightforward. And

425
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:41,360
Speaker 1: then lastly there's judging and perceiving. Those are that's a dichotomy.

426
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: Judging is where you UM, you prefer schedules. You prefer

427
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: um decisiveness. That's how you kind of approach life and

428
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: perceiving is where you're just kind of like whatever. Yeah,

429
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 1: I'm not too worried about it. Um. That's almost kind

430
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 1: of like the difference between the type A and Type

431
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 1: B personalities, which, by the way, was made up by

432
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: a pair of cardiologists whose work was later secretly funded

433
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 1: by the tobacco industry who were looking for anything to

434
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: explain heart attacks besides smoking, so they funded type A

435
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 1: and type B personality research for years. Interesting, Yeah, it

436
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 1: really is. There's a UM just as an aside. There's

437
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 1: a really interesting price I think. Yeah, Prison nomics UM

438
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 1: article on type and type Yeah, just look it up.

439
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 1: I don't remember the name, right. UM. So, when you

440
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 1: sit down to take one of these uh not tests

441
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:42,959
Speaker 1: with a series of questions that you answer, I think

442
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: they call them instruments, by the way, psychometric instruments, which

443
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: are basically a series of questions on a piece of paper.

444
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 1: It sounds like a test. Um. They will say things

445
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 1: like uh ed has some good examples here. When you

446
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: go on a trip, do you want everything planned out

447
00:27:58,080 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: in advance or would you rather just take each day

448
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 1: as it comes and do whatever you feel like. Pretty

449
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: straightforward kind of stuff. Uh. And then they also have

450
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 1: things like a word pairs just to see literally what

451
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 1: word you like better, like compassion foresight, Like which word

452
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 1: do you like better? Carrots or fruit? Uh? Fruit? Fruit?

453
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: That's just prettier, it is. So I'm looking back here,

454
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: I just want to say, so, I think trying to

455
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: figure out what you were. Yeah, I think e n FP.

456
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 1: Maybe I think that's what I was. We weren't the

457
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,479
Speaker 1: same thing. I don't remember you. Me and I got

458
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 1: the same thing. She found an old email, but she

459
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: forgot to tell me what we were. Really, I really,

460
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: I don't know. The problem is would we still be

461
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: the same today? Yeah? And I think, if I'm not mistaken,

462
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: didn't we have this up on a big board in

463
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: the office for a while. So yeah, it seems like

464
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 1: a Jerry's nothing. That seems like a breach of protocol

465
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 1: sure like privacy? Yeah, well again, being forced to gunpoint

466
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: to do it was just from the start. Remember it

467
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: was kind of fun night, a fun day. We'll talk

468
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: about that as well. Um. So it's gonna cost you

469
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: if you just do this as a single individual. Um.

470
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 1: Not meaning not married but just a person about fifty

471
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 1: bucks um, although they should charge more if you're married.

472
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 1: More complex tests about fifty bucks. If you want our feedback,

473
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: it'll cost you an extra hundred and if you want

474
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: a career report all typed up, that'll be six And

475
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 1: if you um, this is fifteen hundred dollars for a

476
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 1: on site training classes at like what we had. So

477
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: this is a this is not very well explained. If

478
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: you want to administer the Myers Briggs personality or type inventory,

479
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 1: you can get certified. It's four day training course and

480
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: you pay fifteen hundred and sixteen hundred dollars. Cannot legally

481
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: administer this test or you're infringing on their copyrights unless

482
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: you're certified by CPP to do this. We should do

483
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: it with one another on the air and risk a lawsuit.

484
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: Well yeah, well you probably got a stude already with

485
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: that one question you asked out loud? Which one? Just

486
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 1: the one? Yeah? When you go on a trip, do

487
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 1: you want everything planned out in advance? I just made

488
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: that up. Oh good, I got that from Travelocity. Nice. Okay, yeah,

489
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: that little gnome whispered it in your ear. But so

490
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: you you would go and get certified, and then now

491
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: you can go around to businesses and say, hey, uh,

492
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: do you want to know more about your employees? You

493
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 1: want to know who's good at what? Let me come

494
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: give the Myers Briggs type inventory to your your employees

495
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: and it will be wonderful. Right, So that's how the

496
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 1: whole process goes. You pay to become certified, and then

497
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: you go become something of an evangelist for the Myers

498
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: Briggs tests, and you sell the test. You basically become

499
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,719
Speaker 1: a salesman as well. It's a it's very interesting UM

500
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,719
Speaker 1: dynamic that they have going that is, it's a good

501
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: word dynamic. Um. They want to point out that um,

502
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: the person taking the test is the expert um. And

503
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 1: they also use this metaphor of handedness, which I didn't

504
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: fully understand. They say things like, it feels more comfortable

505
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 1: to sign your name with your dominant hand, but technically

506
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: you can sign with your non dominant and if you

507
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: need to write, And I'm not sure what they're trying

508
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 1: to prove that. They're trying to say that despite the

509
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 1: m B T I pigeonholing you fully in one category

510
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: or another rather than on a spectrum they're saying that

511
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: category that it's pigeonholing you into is actually just your preference.

512
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: It's not you specifically, it's just ca Yeah, you can

513
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: to be an extrovert, but of course everybody likes their

514
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: own personal alone time, so yeah, you're going to be

515
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: an introvert once in a while, but you're an extrovert

516
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: more than than other times. Yeah, because I can't sign

517
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: my name with my left hand that I didn't like

518
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: that analogy because it literally I can barely hold a

519
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: pin with my left hand. I'm seeing you're doing it right. Wow,

520
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: If I tried to do it, it would look like

521
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: a three year old with arthritis has tried to like

522
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: scribble it out. Mine mine looks like um you d mum,

523
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: it's my signature with my left hand, And they do

524
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: they do try and point out like you said that

525
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: it's interesting because they box you in. But at the

526
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: same time they're saying, but you know, like you said,

527
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: it's just predisposition. Don't don't really think of it about

528
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,719
Speaker 1: you being this type of person, even though you are

529
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: a E N F B. Like you said, it was earlier,

530
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: it was almost numbered. I mean, it is, it's lettered

531
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: this is a different way of quantify buying it. Yeah,

532
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 1: but without numbers. All right, you want to take a

533
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 1: break and then come back and and maybe do a

534
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 1: little criticism. Yeah, okay, that's sky. Shouldn't chuck, all right,

535
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: chuck Like I said, it's kind of a pastime in

536
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: the United States too. Two tee off on the Myers

537
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: Briggs type inventory. Yeah, this is not us here, this

538
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: is now. This is us talking about other people teeing

539
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: off on it. Yeah. It's widely been criticized over the

540
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: years from UM psychologists and well amateur no nothings like us.

541
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: One of the big criticisms is that companies use this

542
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: stuff UM and hiring and firing and promoting UM. But

543
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: even the Myers Briggs people CPP say like, don't do that.

544
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,919
Speaker 1: Well I know, but they say that, but then don't

545
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: go to an office and get hired by a corporation

546
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 1: to administer it or go sell your services you know. Yeah, yeah,

547
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: I agreed, And that's part of the problem to me.

548
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 1: That is more UM the corporation's fault. Well, sure, like

549
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 1: if you have an HR person who's like die hard

550
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,800
Speaker 1: believer in the m b t I and will hire

551
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:44,240
Speaker 1: or fire somebody based on their m b t I type,

552
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: fire that person because you have a real dumb dumb

553
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 1: on your hands, and they should not be responsible for

554
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 1: people's livelihoods. Even I don't think they would put it

555
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 1: quite in those terms, but even the Myers Briggs people

556
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: say like, you shouldn't use this for hiring or firing,

557
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 1: and yet yes, some people do. Some people swear by this.

558
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: The impression that I have is that the Myers Briggs

559
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 1: people tend to think of this as more like a

560
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: team building exercise or where like a certified and b

561
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:23,399
Speaker 1: t I administrator can come to your place, get all

562
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 1: your employees together, and they find out like all their

563
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: personality types. And by the way, there's not a single

564
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,320
Speaker 1: negative personality type, and all personality types are equal, so

565
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 1: everybody gets a participant ribbon in the form of their

566
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 1: personality type and um. But at the same time, and

567
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,399
Speaker 1: this seems to be the crux, at the same time,

568
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 1: everybody's finding out like, oh, you're a little different than me,

569
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 1: and I'm a little different than you, and we all

570
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 1: have differences in different perspectives, so let's celebrate that and

571
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: let's respect one another's differences. And there is the actual

572
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 1: point from what I underst stand up the Myers Briggs

573
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,359
Speaker 1: type inventory and taking it in a corporate setting, that's

574
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: what stands out to me as what happened with us

575
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 1: was I remember it kind of being a fun day. Yeah,

576
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: we held goofed off and had a good time. And

577
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: the person leading it, if they're good at what they do,

578
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: which this person was, is always you know, it's always

579
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 1: kind of a fun person and cracking jokes and they

580
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 1: don't take it too seriously. None of us took it

581
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 1: too seriously. Uh, And we all had a good time

582
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 1: and it did. It was very much like a team

583
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: building thing, right. So as long as there's like a

584
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: wink wink, nudge nudge kind of thing, and that the

585
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,800
Speaker 1: people who take it actually take it seriously or taken

586
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: off to the side by their hr rep to say like, no,

587
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: this is a little less serious thing, then you're taking it.

588
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 1: Then it's fine. But yes, once you start deciding people's

589
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 1: fate based on this, then you have real problems because

590
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 1: it's just about anybody will tell you the Myers Briggs

591
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 1: type inventory is based at best on some shaky science,

592
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 1: if at all, If you go back to the very

593
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 1: beginning it's based on the theories of Carl Young, which

594
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 1: have never been based on science. There are basically personal

595
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:13,799
Speaker 1: observations by Young, and the psychology community has disavowed Young

596
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 1: in large part. So therefore anything based on his teachings

597
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: and theories is by proxy disavowed as well. But if

598
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: that weren't enough, psychology as a field loves going after

599
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 1: the Myers Briggs type inventory just loves it as as

600
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: totally baseless scientifically all right, so we've got UM. Shouldn't

601
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 1: use it to hire and fire and corporations or or

602
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 1: gift promotions we have not based on real science and

603
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 1: science and scientific data. Um. These four dichotomies are problematic

604
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: in and of themselves because everyone is on a spectrum.

605
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,760
Speaker 1: You can't say, like, you know, you answered these ten questions,

606
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: you're either this or you're that. UM. And when one

607
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 1: of the rebuttals because I think ED interviewed someone from CPP, right, UM.

608
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 1: One of the rebuttals about being a non repeatable UM

609
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 1: experiment of sorts is like, hey, yesterday I was an

610
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 1: n f P and today I'm this. They'll say, well,

611
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,439
Speaker 1: you know what, if you have different answers, that means

612
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 1: you were sort of on the cusp right there in

613
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: that center line on some of these questions, and you

614
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 1: might have just leapt over to that other side, which

615
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 1: means you're basically kind of down the center. Yet they

616
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,760
Speaker 1: don't have a categorization for down the center. Yeah, because

617
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 1: depending on as Ed puts it, you could answer all

618
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 1: twenty four questions on the feeling side and you're gonna

619
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: get the same result as somebody who answered eleven questions

620
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:50,359
Speaker 1: for thinking and thirteen questions for feeling. Right, same thing,

621
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,800
Speaker 1: You're still both in an f in that respect. And

622
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 1: I saw elsewhere it put like if the Myers Briggs

623
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,919
Speaker 1: test um measured height, you would either be taller short. Yeah,

624
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 1: you can say, well, actually I'm right there in the middle,

625
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 1: and they'd be like, well that's short, right, or for you,

626
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 1: it's short. For the guy who who is the same

627
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: anxect tight, they're tall right. And trust me, nobody that's

628
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,839
Speaker 1: five tin likes to be considered short, right. I can

629
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 1: say that from experience, because you're not you're in your

630
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 1: average I'm average average. The fact that there isn't a

631
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 1: spectrum is one thing that really makes it in stark

632
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: contrast of of other much more widely accepted psychometric instruments. UM.

633
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: It also points out to the Grabster that they're The

634
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 1: construction of the UM instrument itself is problematic because one,

635
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: like we talked about, it's self reporting. Anytime you're self reporting,

636
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: there's going to be some weird bias in there, just

637
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: almost impossible to avoid. The other one is that UM

638
00:39:55,800 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 1: he says a couple of these dicademies are entangled, which

639
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 1: I never really thought about that, but that's a pretty

640
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 1: good point. So UM judging perceiving scale or correlated with

641
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: answers on the sensing intuition scale, and if you like,

642
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 1: this should be separated out for sure. I don't know

643
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: why they don't. I don't either, you know, because they've

644
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: really put a lot of work into this. Yeah. Um,

645
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:27,320
Speaker 1: it's not baked in stone from the nineteen forties and

646
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 1: fifties and sixties, is it. No, it's not. And even

647
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 1: while they were creating it was an ongoing, exhaustive process

648
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:38,919
Speaker 1: that UM, Mrs Briggs and Mrs Myers UM engaged in. Yeah,

649
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 1: we don't want to give they spent decades on this. Yes,

650
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: it wasn't like something they threw together. No, The problem

651
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 1: is is they they did it backwards. They came up

652
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: with the personality types and then set about creating the

653
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 1: test that would detect these personality types. Rather than going

654
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 1: out and testing people, seeing what personalities types emerged and

655
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 1: then figuring out a test to find and other people,

656
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 1: they did it backwards. It was based on young but

657
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: it was not for lack of trying. Like as a

658
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:08,319
Speaker 1: matter of fact, one of the first things they did

659
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,720
Speaker 1: after they started to really establish the tests was they

660
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: managed to administer it to like five thousand George Washington

661
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 1: University medical students, and they took those results and tracked

662
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: the students to see what fields of medicine they went in.

663
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 1: They like really worked on this. I read an article

664
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:30,280
Speaker 1: in the Washington Post where um this I think Isabelle Myers'

665
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 1: son Um remembers their vacations were basically like fact finding

666
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 1: um missions all around the country, Like they would go

667
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 1: administered tested, like everything was about this test and they

668
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 1: worked on it for decades. So yeah, the problem is

669
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: it was just it's just not based on science. They

670
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 1: didn't follow the scientific method. So science, so science kind

671
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: of poo poos the m b T I. But wait, wait, wait,

672
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 1: get back here, because a lot of the criticisms fall

673
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 1: just as easily on every other psychometric test around. Well, yeah,

674
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 1: and that's one of the things that UM. I can't

675
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 1: remember who was interviewed in here, but UM and one

676
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 1: of those other articles you sent one of the um

677
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 1: myers are I don't know if it was. Maybe it

678
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 1: was a roor Shack defender, UM said, you know, like everyone, Yeah,

679
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 1: it was Rorshak, Like everyone's always picking on ror Shack.

680
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 1: When all of these psychological tests are, you know, subject

681
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:35,439
Speaker 1: to criticism, they are, you know, I think it's really

682
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 1: easy for to tee off on Rorshak as well, because

683
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 1: I mean we're talking ink plots. Man. It is the

684
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 1: epitome of subjective self reporting. You're saying, I, uh, let's

685
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:50,720
Speaker 1: see in this one, I see mom's boobs. Yeah, Mom's

686
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 1: boobs in that one, right, exactly so, and then from

687
00:42:55,800 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 1: that it was strictly up to uh. Initially, Rorschack, I

688
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: think came up with this test in nineteen I think,

689
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:09,800
Speaker 1: so he's a Swiss psychiatrist. It was. It was initially

690
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 1: up to him and then later on his followers to

691
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 1: interpret this, which is basically like interpreting dreams and UM,

692
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 1: so subjective. It totally subjective from beginning end. And then

693
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 1: and I think a guy at Bowling Green State University,

694
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 1: which is right outside of Toledo, UM, came up with

695
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 1: this a really exhaustive interpretive test that sought to quantify

696
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 1: rorshack answers. Yeah, John Exner, Uh. And it was a

697
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 1: test called the comprehensive system a hundred and forty components.

698
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 1: And in this article you sent, they said that rorshack

699
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 1: was probably going away, UM had it not been for

700
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:59,919
Speaker 1: Exner's accompaniment UM with this other process. Right, And even

701
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 1: today he's got an institute in Asheville that's dedicated to

702
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,879
Speaker 1: the Rorschach test. Right. So, one thing I've noticed from

703
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 1: researching this is each of these personality inventories has like

704
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:17,320
Speaker 1: its adherents and its detractors, And just judging from the outside,

705
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 1: it looks a lot like colts gathered around their various idols. Right.

706
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 1: There's like the original figurehead who came up with it,

707
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: and everybody worships them, and he's attacked by these other

708
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 1: followers who have a very similar figurehead. It came up

709
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 1: with something very similar, but it's just different enough that

710
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 1: that there's a huge chasm between the two. And there's

711
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 1: a lot of dogma surrounding it, but the Rorschach test

712
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 1: in particular is apparently well known to give wildly inaccurate results.

713
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 1: How did you do? I got two out of tin,

714
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 1: which means, um, I was only two to away whatever

715
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: that means from being labeled like a psychotic. So yeah,

716
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 1: there was to get four out of ten. I think

717
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 1: there's this. Oh really, I think that's what it said. Yeah,

718
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 1: that's close. And this is an online uh test. I

719
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 1: don't know if it's like how true it was to

720
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 1: the original or maybe the original it could be, and

721
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 1: then they have an algorithm that runs the analysis. I

722
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: keep seeing all kinds of things. When I looked at it,

723
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 1: and I've never done an ink blot test, I would say, oh,

724
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 1: that looks like a bat, and then I was like, no,

725
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 1: it's like two bunnies. And then now it looks like

726
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 1: a cool Mardi Gras mask. Did they did they move

727
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: to you? Did you see colors? Well, some of them

728
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:33,359
Speaker 1: were colored, most of them were black, and they had

729
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: a the one I took at a at a one

730
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 1: and a two, like, um, what do you see? And

731
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 1: what's like a secondary thing that you see? So you know,

732
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,799
Speaker 1: supposedly people who are supporters of the Rorshach tests say no, man,

733
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 1: there's we don't know how it's working. But if you

734
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 1: see movement in the Rorschach ink blots, it's suggestive of

735
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 1: depression or something like that. And they say, statistically it's correlated.

736
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: But like I was saying, it's also notorious for giving

737
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:04,240
Speaker 1: incorrect results. Yeah, like saying you're you have a mental illness, right, Okay,

738
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 1: So there was this study in two thousand that was

739
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:12,279
Speaker 1: given to like one mentally sound elementary school kids and

740
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: some like high percentage of them came back as borderline

741
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 1: psychotic because of the ror check test, right, And it's

742
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 1: hilarious to hear stories like that, Like I'm laughing inside

743
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 1: right now. But um, the problem is is you were

744
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,320
Speaker 1: at the very least being labeled as psychotic, not a

745
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 1: label you want in society, and it was because of

746
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:37,320
Speaker 1: this ink blot test that's a hundred years old. And

747
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 1: then secondly, these tests are also being submitted and accepted

748
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 1: as evidence in criminal trials. That's the biggest part. Child

749
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 1: custody cases and sile case still given real weight and

750
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 1: lives are changed and ruined based on looking at a

751
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:58,800
Speaker 1: hundred year old ink blots and a person subjective analysis

752
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: of that that's not okay? Know this, Um, Howard Garb

753
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 1: in this one article you sent and he's a co

754
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 1: author of What's Wrong with the rorscheck? And he is

755
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 1: head of cycle, or at least at the time of

756
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 1: this article, he may still be head of psychological testing

757
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 1: for the Air Force. Uh. He said that even with

758
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 1: Exner's comprehensive system, he said, only ten percent of his

759
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:23,799
Speaker 1: system even meets the most basic scientific standards. And um,

760
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 1: they did examine data of over thirty different ror Scheck studies,

761
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:30,840
Speaker 1: and he said they all have a tendency to label

762
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: healthy people mentally ill. And if you're trying to get

763
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 1: custody of your kid, or if you are on trial

764
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:39,759
Speaker 1: as a criminal, like it's just that's the last thing

765
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:43,840
Speaker 1: you need is somebody subjective opinion of is it a

766
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 1: bunny or is it a bat? Oh? He said, a bat?

767
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 1: Take that kid? You know quick? Kids like I like bunnies.

768
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 1: The another one that that we have to talk about

769
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 1: is the mm P I. Now the mm P I

770
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 1: dash too. I think as of two thousand and twelve

771
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 1: they revised it dramatic. Is this one? Is that right?

772
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: It has over questions. Yeah, some of them originally were

773
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 1: about like your bowel movements, um, really not so questions

774
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 1: that supposedly really got to the heart of whether you

775
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 1: were mentally disturbed or not right. And it was created

776
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:26,320
Speaker 1: at the University of Minnesota in the forties by a

777
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 1: psychiatrist and a neurologist, I believe, and they hit upon

778
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 1: a pretty clever idea. They said, we're not going to

779
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 1: interpret the results right and say, you know, oh, this

780
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 1: person said that they do feel like smashing something sometimes

781
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 1: and that means this. Instead, we're gonna come up with

782
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 1: this test of like five hundred and four questions, and

783
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 1: we're going to give it to the patient or the

784
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 1: family and staff of a mental hospital who were sure

785
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 1: are sane, and we're gonna take their answers and they're

786
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 1: going to become our control group, our baseline. So then

787
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 1: anybody who takes this test, we're going to compare the

788
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 1: test takers answers to the same control groups answers, and

789
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:13,799
Speaker 1: you know, depending on how it relates to the same

790
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: control group, they're either mentally ill or not. You better

791
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 1: have gotten that control group right. Well, that's the thing

792
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 1: to begin with. So a group of like family and

793
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 1: friends in Minnesota. Is the picture of sanity throughout the

794
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,439
Speaker 1: world is the basis of this test. That's a huge

795
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 1: problem with it to begin with, but apparently a lot

796
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 1: of people say, like, no, it really has It does

797
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:40,359
Speaker 1: a pretty good job of sustening sussing out mental illness. UM.

798
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 1: It's also really good at detecting faker faking one way

799
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:48,000
Speaker 1: or the other. UM. But it's it's too invasive and

800
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:51,879
Speaker 1: when companies use it for hiring and firing, it's way

801
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,760
Speaker 1: too invasive. And apparently lawsuits have been filed against companies

802
00:49:55,800 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 1: for using it. Well, I think that UM, most people

803
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 1: are far more UM troubled than they ever let on

804
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 1: in life. And UM part of success in life comes

805
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 1: down to how good you are at UM covering that

806
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 1: up or hiding it, or dealing with it and processing it,

807
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:27,439
Speaker 1: terms with it. UM, it's just to find a core

808
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:33,439
Speaker 1: group that are quote unquote saying normal people. UM, it's

809
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 1: just you're starting off with a problem, he asked me.

810
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 1: A faulty premise, right, Yeah, It's just there's no way

811
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 1: like everyone has their issues. They're deep dark, uh, things

812
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 1: that their brain that they don't want anyone to know.

813
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 1: Sometimes even the people closest to them don't even know.

814
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:54,879
Speaker 1: And actually you you're in agreement with this. A sociologist

815
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 1: named William White who criticized the mm p I as

816
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: a tool that helped to create and perpetuate the oppressive

817
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 1: group think of mid century organization man, where it's basically like,

818
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,320
Speaker 1: here's what we think is normal. Anything outside of that

819
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 1: is abnormal, and we're not going to hire you because

820
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 1: you don't fit into this picture of normalcy, which is

821
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 1: basically white crew cut Minnesota from the forties, right, that's

822
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 1: the picture of normalcy. That's highly debatable. The other thing

823
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 1: I thought was interesting is a lot of skeptics and

824
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 1: critics point to things like the m b t I

825
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: and saying, this is just like astrology. There is really

826
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:38,759
Speaker 1: no different than reading your horoscope because it's all positive psychology. UM.

827
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 1: At the end of a of a Myers Briggs um

828
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 1: non test, no one walks away feeling bad. Usually it's

829
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 1: all sort of positive wording and like like this is

830
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 1: what you are. You're just this, so kind of don't

831
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:54,520
Speaker 1: worry about it the same way you read your horoscope

832
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 1: in an in a given day. I mean, how many

833
00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 1: horoscopes say like UM today you're you will be prone

834
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:04,840
Speaker 1: to depression and wonder what it's all about. Right, maybe

835
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:07,959
Speaker 1: you should work on your core character because people don't

836
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 1: like being around you that much. You don't hear that

837
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:13,320
Speaker 1: kind of stuff but taps into what's called the Horror

838
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 1: effect f r r UM. There was a psychiatrist named

839
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 1: Bertram Horror. This is so interesting. He will take it.

840
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:23,719
Speaker 1: It's pretty interesting stuff. Well, I mean, basically didn't he

841
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 1: give the same He had people take these tests and

842
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 1: then gave all of the people the exact same assessment,

843
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 1: but telling everyone it was tailored for them their own

844
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 1: personality assessment. And I think the people who just thought

845
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 1: it was favorable, we're like, this is great. Well it

846
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:42,759
Speaker 1: was favorable. He actually called it from daily horoscopes. Well yeah,

847
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,800
Speaker 1: but what were they responding positively too? Well? They it

848
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 1: was whether or not they wanted to feel that way

849
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 1: about it, so they were it was a positive assessment.

850
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 1: There was nothing negative in there, so it was all

851
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 1: positive stuff like you have a lot of unused potential.

852
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:58,359
Speaker 1: That kind of stuff people stuff people wanted to identify with. Right,

853
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 1: So the more uttering it was, the more likely the

854
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:04,759
Speaker 1: people were to say, this is an accurate assessment of me.

855
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:07,399
Speaker 1: So just despite the fact that it was the same

856
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:09,800
Speaker 1: one given to the entire class, he took their answers

857
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 1: and threw them out and said, here's your assessment, the

858
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 1: same one for everybody. It got like an accuracy from

859
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 1: the class as a whole. Well, that's what I wondered.

860
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 1: It was about, where those people just super honest maybe

861
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 1: and like, no, this is really no. People actually don't

862
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 1: like being around me. I'm using all of my potential

863
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 1: and they still don't like me. Yeah, that's what I

864
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 1: couldn't figure out. But I guess that makes sense. There

865
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 1: are people out there that are I think I would

866
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:34,839
Speaker 1: be one of those that would be like, this isn't right.

867
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:40,239
Speaker 1: I'm not like that sure anything else I think not.

868
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 1: This is a good one. We've been we've been wanting

869
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 1: to do this for a while. Yeah, this is a

870
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 1: special request by me and others. Uh. If you want

871
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 1: to know more about personality tests, well you can go

872
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:55,880
Speaker 1: take them online. They're kind of huge right now. Uh,

873
00:53:56,080 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 1: find out what kind of um hobbit you are. I

874
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 1: don't know what box do you live in? Yeah? Uh,

875
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 1: And in the meantime, you can type personality test in

876
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:08,399
Speaker 1: the search bar how stuff works dot com. And since

877
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 1: I said that it's time for listener mail. The only

878
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 1: thing that should live in a box is uh, temporary

879
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 1: housing for a pet frog that's not bad, or the

880
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 1: stuff you find in a tree hole that Boo Radley

881
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 1: left for you. Yeah, back a month in the box. Uh. Hey, guys,

882
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 1: feel compelled to write you today to tell you how

883
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 1: grateful I am for your show uh and praise your

884
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 1: good work. Um. Recently became a listener and I'm working

885
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:38,719
Speaker 1: my way through the entire archive. I think a lot

886
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 1: of folks might be able to relate to this. Until

887
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:42,719
Speaker 1: recently I found out I found it really hard to

888
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:45,399
Speaker 1: relax and suffer with anxiety. Two months ago, I read

889
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 1: an article basically pointing out how our obsession with being

890
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:53,400
Speaker 1: productive an associated guilt is a modern phenomenon. Um. I

891
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,879
Speaker 1: think that for sure. You know, although I had heard

892
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 1: this before, something really clicked in my head. So I

893
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 1: decided to abandon to an embrace relaxation, taking control of

894
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:04,759
Speaker 1: my own stress levels. You guys have been a big

895
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 1: part of this. I have taken the time to slowly

896
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 1: hotter around my flat, go for walks while listening and

897
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:14,319
Speaker 1: learning to your fascinating podcast, and they've lived in my mood.

898
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:18,400
Speaker 1: I feel mentally healthier than I ever have before. Although

899
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:20,880
Speaker 1: the content of what you discussed might not always be positive,

900
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 1: the way in which you explain them in your own

901
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 1: views personally revived my hope and humanity. That is ridiculously

902
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 1: flatter and that nice. Yeah, I guess I should also

903
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:31,880
Speaker 1: mention that a big part of my tackling anxiety UH

904
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:36,480
Speaker 1: levels has been to abandon watching television and the psychotropic drugs.

905
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 1: I would be really interested to know if there has

906
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:41,959
Speaker 1: been any research conductivity to affect TV has upon our lives.

907
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:44,759
Speaker 1: I'm sure there has been. I haven't owned a TV

908
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:47,400
Speaker 1: for many years, but my partner has since subscribed to

909
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:50,320
Speaker 1: an online provider and I realized how watching TV is

910
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:53,400
Speaker 1: not helped my anxiety. Also remember reading that after TVs

911
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:57,479
Speaker 1: came mainstream and Bhutan their crime rate went up something

912
00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:01,680
Speaker 1: like seve my to prove an interesting topic for a

913
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 1: future show. Yeah, anyway, sincerely grateful, keep it up. I

914
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:07,359
Speaker 1: am now recommending your shows to as many people as

915
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:11,319
Speaker 1: I can. Big love from the UK, MAC, Thanks a lot, Mac.

916
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:13,479
Speaker 1: That was great. We hear from a lot of people

917
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 1: actually say that we help them with their anxiety. No

918
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:20,439
Speaker 1: idea how, but it doesn't matter, so thank you. Yeah.

919
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 1: If you want to get in touch of this, like

920
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 1: mac did, you can tweet to us at s Y

921
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,799
Speaker 1: s K podcast or josh um Clark. You can hang

922
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 1: out with us on Facebook at Stuff you Should Know

923
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:33,799
Speaker 1: or Charles W. Chuck Bryant. You can send us an

924
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 1: email the Stuff podcast how stuff works dot com and

925
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:38,840
Speaker 1: has always joined us at home on the web Stuff

926
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:45,160
Speaker 1: you Should Know dot com for more on this and

927
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:47,759
Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff Works dot

928
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 1: com