Speaker 1: Hi. This is Malan Vervier and this is Kim Azarelli.
Speaker 1: We are co authors of the book Fast Forward, How
Speaker 1: Women Can Achieve Power and Purpose. And you're listening to
Speaker 1: Seneca Women Conversations on Power and Purpose, brought to you
Speaker 1: by the Seneca Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: So welcome to this special edition of Seneca Women Conversations
Speaker 1: on Power and Purpose. During these difficult times, We're bringing
Speaker 1: you conversations with women and men leaders who are using
Speaker 1: their power for purpose. We'll talk to experts and leaders
Speaker 1: on the front lines of the coronavirus and share tips, tactics,
Speaker 1: and inspiration. Today I am just delighted to be joined
Speaker 1: by Dr Gail Saltz. She's the clinical Associate Professor of
Speaker 1: psychiatry at the New York pressy here In Hospital and
Speaker 1: the host of the media podcast Personality. Thanks for joining us, DARTR. Salts,
Speaker 1: thanks for having me today, so so much to talk
Speaker 1: about um on your topic. So, the coronavirus has struck,
Speaker 1: I would say fear and anxiety in much of the
Speaker 1: world in a very fast manner. How is mental health
Speaker 1: to concern in this moment? The mental health right now
Speaker 1: is very close second to physical health at this moment. Obviously,
Speaker 1: I know, you know, people are appropriately concerned about the virus,
Speaker 1: and you know those will get extremely ill and those
Speaker 1: who will perhaps die of this virus. That being said,
Speaker 1: those numbers are probably much much, much smaller than a
Speaker 1: number of people who are going to suffer really debilitating
Speaker 1: mental health issues during this time, because this is new,
Speaker 1: because it's entirely changed our structure as a as as
Speaker 1: the way we function in society, because of the understandable
Speaker 1: anxiety and fear related to the virus, because of financial
Speaker 1: difficulties and stresses that people are having as a result
Speaker 1: of what's what's occurring in reaction to the virus, because
Speaker 1: people are having to stay you know, socially distanced and
Speaker 1: perhaps and in fact often are being socially distanced in
Speaker 1: close quarters with people that they aren't usually uh, you know,
Speaker 1: in close quarters with, and that is changing a lot
Speaker 1: of dynamics. And you know, at best case, spraying spraying
Speaker 1: your nerves, but for some people doing more than that.
Speaker 1: And it's important to remember that, you know, at some
Speaker 1: point or another, close to half of all Americans will
Speaker 1: have a mental health issue, and those who already do
Speaker 1: are going to have an even more difficult time dealing
Speaker 1: with what's going on. So I want to unpack a
Speaker 1: lot of what you just said, because you've touched on
Speaker 1: so many incredibly important topics in this moment. So I
Speaker 1: hear a lot of people facing just general anxiety, UM,
Speaker 1: and I think it has to do with this lack
Speaker 1: of control, uh, fear isolation. What are you finding is mixed?
Speaker 1: Is it is there one thing that's really driving this
Speaker 1: or is it just a combination. I think it depends
Speaker 1: on the person. You know, which things stoked you more so,
Speaker 1: But generally speaking, uncertainty I would put close to the
Speaker 1: top of the list. I think for most people uncertainty,
Speaker 1: which you know, we've learned to accept in different areas
Speaker 1: of day to day life. You know, you crossed the
Speaker 1: street and obviously no one could promise you a hundred
Speaker 1: percent that you won't get hit by a car. Um,
Speaker 1: But we crossed the street all the time, or we
Speaker 1: get in our cars and drive all the time, even
Speaker 1: though there is the possibility of being in an accident.
Speaker 1: We've learned to accept uncertainty and certain arenas. But now
Speaker 1: we're being presented with a a sort of never seen
Speaker 1: before new whole host of uncertainties and that makes people
Speaker 1: very anxious. Appropriate you know in some ways that that
Speaker 1: that's a normal response, and I think most people are
Speaker 1: understandably anxious, But for some people it's it's really difficult
Speaker 1: to deal with the uncertainty. And you could, you know,
Speaker 1: add on to that the lack of control, UM, many
Speaker 1: things will be taken out of your control, financial markets, um,
Speaker 1: you know, but potentially depending I mean, you have the
Speaker 1: ability to socially isolate yourself. Is that I mean you
Speaker 1: won't get the virus, not necessarily um, because it's impossible
Speaker 1: to be you know, on another planet. But uh so
Speaker 1: that lack of control in that sense UM is difficult
Speaker 1: for a lot of people. And that this is a
Speaker 1: health issue and that you know, there are people who
Speaker 1: are going to die from the virus. So being faced
Speaker 1: with mortality UM and illness is something that typically stoke
Speaker 1: anxiety and fearing people. And so are there are there
Speaker 1: tactics here recommending finding for that, uh that ability to
Speaker 1: deal with uncertainty. Well, generally speaking, the more one pushes
Speaker 1: back UM and and seeks reassurance for uncertainty, usually the
Speaker 1: worst it gets. So uh, people for example, are looking
Speaker 1: at the news about every sixty seconds in a wish
Speaker 1: that something is going to pop up that would give
Speaker 1: them some certainty, you know, like they found the thing whatever,
Speaker 1: you know that that there's some answer. And the more
Speaker 1: that one looks around for a way to undo those
Speaker 1: feelings or to get certainty, UM, usually the worst that
Speaker 1: it makes. It. So really what I would tell people
Speaker 1: at this time as it is about accepting that there
Speaker 1: will be a certain degree of uncertainty while keeping perspective
Speaker 1: that too. Relatively speaking, these are small numbers. You know
Speaker 1: that more people are dying, you know, of the flu
Speaker 1: still at this point from what we can see from
Speaker 1: testing at this juncture. So in the words, a certain
Speaker 1: amount of acceptance, a certain amount of giving it perspective
Speaker 1: of you know, the kinds of numbers that we're talking about. Uh.
Speaker 1: Using distraction um is important at this time. Honestly, there
Speaker 1: are you know, you've got a creative about the ways
Speaker 1: that you can distract yourself of focusing exclusively on this
Speaker 1: material and in rooting yourself in other more certain, more
Speaker 1: stable parts of your life, whether that's socially talking to
Speaker 1: people online hopefully or on the phoneo UM. You know,
Speaker 1: because you want to shore up and keep and maintain
Speaker 1: those good relationships. And that's good for you, whether that's
Speaker 1: trying to embed yourself and work as much as you're
Speaker 1: able to, uh, to concentrate on that and focus on
Speaker 1: that as a distraction from the news at hand, even
Speaker 1: though I recognize you'll mostly be doing that from home
Speaker 1: and that makes it harder, but still doing that and
Speaker 1: activities that are distracting you know, what was it that's
Speaker 1: watching you know, a comedy or or or playing a
Speaker 1: game with the people that you're socially isolated with, or um,
Speaker 1: you know, going online and doing a virtual tour of
Speaker 1: a zoo or museum as people have discovered, you know,
Speaker 1: as possible. UM, that distraction during this time is important
Speaker 1: as well. We'll be back after this break. So you
Speaker 1: also touched on, you know, maintaining healthy relationships with our
Speaker 1: loved ones or other people that we are isolated with. UM.
Speaker 1: It kind of brings up that joke which maybe yeah
Speaker 1: you've heard, which is you know, for better or for worse,
Speaker 1: but not for lunch, UM kind of thing. So you know,
Speaker 1: now it's like, well, you're we are all the time together, UM.
Speaker 1: And I think people are coping with that in different ways. Uh.
Speaker 1: We you know, we hear that, for example, divorce rates
Speaker 1: have gone up in the other countries already. Um and
Speaker 1: uh and so what do you recommend as it relates
Speaker 1: to uh, you know, dealing with this new Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean this is really important because you know, relationships are
Speaker 1: probor you know, honestly, they're the number one source of
Speaker 1: happiness in life and uh, um, you know they're they're
Speaker 1: vitally important. And actually when people are struggling from mental
Speaker 1: health perspective, one of the things that we're pretty much
Speaker 1: uniformly recommend in an office to a patient who has
Speaker 1: depression or has anxiety is to socially interact with other
Speaker 1: people because it helps. Um. So, whether it's maintaining stability
Speaker 1: of the relationships that are close of the people that
Speaker 1: you're in touch with, or but also distracting from those
Speaker 1: relationships and being able to talk to people that are
Speaker 1: you're not socially exocated with is a help. So, you know,
Speaker 1: getting you know, having kids, going to the computer with
Speaker 1: grandma and grandpa even though you're not together. Um, is
Speaker 1: time that your kids aren't necessarily underfoot for you. Um.
Speaker 1: But are you know, having social noss and are with
Speaker 1: with the grandparents who may feel isolated. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: it's okay for you, for example, as a couple to
Speaker 1: still have quote dinner out with your friends by setting
Speaker 1: up your computer, making dinner, you know, having the kids
Speaker 1: have dinner earlier and you know, entertain themselves while you, you
Speaker 1: you know, have your computer date you know with your friends.
Speaker 1: That that is, I would say a good thing to
Speaker 1: do in terms of me mataining some sort of normalcy.
Speaker 1: But your point about um getting frustrated with everybody who's home? Yes, no,
Speaker 1: you know, people do not stay you know, home and
Speaker 1: collected together all the time. And what we are seeing is,
Speaker 1: you know, the concern obviously about divorce, but there's also
Speaker 1: concern about UM, domestic violence rates going up. UM and uh,
Speaker 1: people getting incredibly frustrated with their children, realizing, oh, we
Speaker 1: should be paying teachers a whole lot more than we
Speaker 1: are paying them. Who knew? Um, that is it is
Speaker 1: difficult And really what I what I'm saying to people
Speaker 1: is the more that you can maintain structure in your day.
Speaker 1: So get up at your usual time, shower, have them
Speaker 1: you know, have your meal, have a workstation, have it
Speaker 1: in a corner of one part of your house to
Speaker 1: Have your kids have a workstation in a different corner
Speaker 1: their part of house. Have your spouses have workstations in
Speaker 1: opposite ends of the houses, so that you feel like
Speaker 1: you have some space to do other things and you're
Speaker 1: not constantly sort of having to be on top of
Speaker 1: each other. Um, talk about strategies for you know, managing
Speaker 1: emotions as they come, so you know, sort of bottling
Speaker 1: it and then exploding at each other. You know, which
Speaker 1: is more likely to happen during this time? Is not
Speaker 1: a strategy? UM. Saying you know, uh, I find this
Speaker 1: difficult or this makes me feel this way. Um, what
Speaker 1: can we do to alleviate that? So talking yeah early,
Speaker 1: using I not you like you're this, you're that, but
Speaker 1: you know I feel this way? UM, talking about it
Speaker 1: early and UM, having you know, some playtime that you
Speaker 1: know that's not just we're talking about coronavirus or we're
Speaker 1: trying or we're looking at our finances code down, but
Speaker 1: you know, is just fun time whatever that might be
Speaker 1: a card game, have sex, that's you know, the basically
Speaker 1: intimate fun experience together is not something that has to
Speaker 1: die because you know, this is going on and it's
Speaker 1: actually important to maintain it. If you can, um, because
Speaker 1: actually it will help both of your moods, which actually
Speaker 1: help in the being together. Well, I have heard also
Speaker 1: that you know this is either going to be a
Speaker 1: Corona romance or Corona divorce, and so you decide kind
Speaker 1: of thing, yeah and I and there'll be a lot
Speaker 1: of people in between, and and you know this will
Speaker 1: be this could be a difficult time for a lot
Speaker 1: of couples, but it's not going to stay this way,
Speaker 1: and that people have to try to remember that it's
Speaker 1: not going to stay this way. Um, So this is
Speaker 1: not forever and it I now it feels like forever
Speaker 1: at the moment um, but you know, realizing that in
Speaker 1: certainly some months this will end, and you do want
Speaker 1: to not have taken your years of relationship and torpedoed
Speaker 1: it in the meanwhile, So it's worth putting in the
Speaker 1: work to think about how to make it through this
Speaker 1: time and having relaxation techniques for all your family members,
Speaker 1: whether that is you know, for some people yoga and
Speaker 1: stretch and you know, or the practice of mindfulness for
Speaker 1: others who just don't do any of those things. Now
Speaker 1: is a good time to start, Like you know, intermittent
Speaker 1: periods of slow, deep abdominal breathing or muscle relaxation or
Speaker 1: taking a warm bath. But basically, you want to find
Speaker 1: moments during the day to really relax your body, which
Speaker 1: helps you relax your mind, which helps you be less irritable,
Speaker 1: which helps to have fewer fights during this time. Exercise
Speaker 1: a another real again could be together, could be separate,
Speaker 1: but leave the house, go for a run while socially distanced. Um.
Speaker 1: But real aerobic exercise decreases anxiety, increases mood. And again,
Speaker 1: the more that you can also do for yourself as
Speaker 1: an individual, the better for your relationships in the house,
Speaker 1: because frankly, you can tolerate more. You had mentioned a
Speaker 1: couple of really great tips, and also you talked earlier
Speaker 1: about the media. I mean, what do you what do
Speaker 1: you recommend in terms of how much media time you have?
Speaker 1: So I'm recommending that people turn off their phone alerts. UM.
Speaker 1: The phone alerts like pin you uh, you know you
Speaker 1: get the baby, you think you have a sense of
Speaker 1: dread or anxiety, um, And it's just happening constantly during
Speaker 1: the day. So I really recommend people turn off the phonowers.
Speaker 1: There's very very little in the phone al arts that
Speaker 1: you actually need to know, UM and just check in
Speaker 1: you know, maybe morning, maybe midday, maybe evening. UM too,
Speaker 1: very reliable sources that you feel that you can trust.
Speaker 1: UM that matters because you know, unfortunately all the mistrust
Speaker 1: right now, UM is it just breathes more anxiety. So
Speaker 1: CDC dot gov, the WHO site, you know, a major
Speaker 1: news you know, even for many people, I would say
Speaker 1: right now, actually a local news site might be better
Speaker 1: than a national news site because a lot of things
Speaker 1: are happening really in your area based on local government,
Speaker 1: UM and what they've instituted or not, and that checking
Speaker 1: those not more than you know a couple of times
Speaker 1: to day's day informed. Because doing what you need to do,
Speaker 1: what you should do, what is problem solving, So you know,
Speaker 1: the the hand washing, the um you know, the social distancing,
Speaker 1: the things that you do need to do. So that's
Speaker 1: good for anxiety. Actually, UM, it does give you feel
Speaker 1: of mastery and control. But too much obsessively checking of
Speaker 1: the news tends to drive up anxiety. Yeah, so this
Speaker 1: is definitely the time to go on a media diet
Speaker 1: and just treat it as seriously as you're you know,
Speaker 1: you're I don't think it has to be um by
Speaker 1: media diet. I don't. I don't think that people should
Speaker 1: make like Jared Leto and disappear in the in the
Speaker 1: woods for twelve days and come out and go what happened?
Speaker 1: I I do think staying informed because the rules are
Speaker 1: changing right now, right and you know, I think that
Speaker 1: one should be prepared to you know, if you need
Speaker 1: to get some food or get you know, be stocked, etcetera.
Speaker 1: If you need to. The rules are changing and you
Speaker 1: need to know what's going on so that you can
Speaker 1: prepare yourself. That's good. Um, but you don't need to
Speaker 1: look all day long, which is what a lot of
Speaker 1: people are doing, especially since their home and have nothing
Speaker 1: going on, and having the news on in the background
Speaker 1: with children is a terrible idea. It does stoke anxiety
Speaker 1: for them. And when your children get very anxious, even
Speaker 1: if you're saying don't worry, don't worry, but you're acting
Speaker 1: worried and the news is telling them worry something, then um,
Speaker 1: they will be. And kids, you know it's it's they
Speaker 1: act out when they're anxious and fearful and uh, and
Speaker 1: that will make it much more difficult for everybody. Now,
Speaker 1: I know you and I are based in New York City,
Speaker 1: which does not have a lot of real estate, So
Speaker 1: in terms of setting up that home office or separating
Speaker 1: from your from your loved ones, it's a little harder
Speaker 1: when you're in these small environments. Any recommendations for those
Speaker 1: of us living in a smaller environment, right, Well, it
Speaker 1: is it is harder. Uh. I can't uh, you know,
Speaker 1: pretend it's not. But I would say that you you
Speaker 1: can get creative. Um. I know people who literally set
Speaker 1: up a desk in their bathroom. Um, and so you know,
Speaker 1: when you need to use about them, you come in.
Speaker 1: But otherwise it's like a separate little room, separate little
Speaker 1: space for me and um and that then that's fine,
Speaker 1: is I guess what I'm saying. I think you know
Speaker 1: for now? Um, you know getting you know, if you
Speaker 1: if you literally put up a sheet to divide the room, um,
Speaker 1: just to give you a sense of having your own space.
Speaker 1: You can wear headphones with a little soft music and
Speaker 1: as you don't have to listen to everything that the
Speaker 1: other person is doing or saying, which make it on
Speaker 1: your nerves. I think you have to create using your senses,
Speaker 1: so you know, visually, a space from your auditory perspective,
Speaker 1: a space and uh, and that was just help you
Speaker 1: to feel that you at least have some time of
Speaker 1: being on your own and then perhaps embedded into something else.
Speaker 1: We'll be back after this break. So now, of course
Speaker 1: we have the kids are at home, UM, we have
Speaker 1: everyone working from home. And we know that typically women
Speaker 1: carry a double burden of caretaking in good times. Um,
Speaker 1: so what is your advice for women? How can caretakers
Speaker 1: manage stress? I mean women are now dealing women and
Speaker 1: men are dealing with this, but we do know that
Speaker 1: women often carry a double burden there, what is your
Speaker 1: advice for women? Well, you know, uh this these are
Speaker 1: extraordinary times and they call for extraordinary measures and no
Speaker 1: one can be superhuman and do everything all themselves. So
Speaker 1: the reality is that even if this has been the case,
Speaker 1: chances are your partner's home and um, and there there
Speaker 1: has to be some you know, give and take. And
Speaker 1: I would say, you know, don't take it all on yourself.
Speaker 1: I mean, sometimes it happens because it's it's been the
Speaker 1: way it's been. Sometimes it happens because it's both of
Speaker 1: your expectations. Um, But if you change your expectation, then
Speaker 1: it will make it easier for him to change his expectations. Um.
Speaker 1: And so it's a matter of just sitting down and saying,
Speaker 1: you know, we're we're all here, and I need us
Speaker 1: to sort of evenly, you know, handle what's going on.
Speaker 1: If if one of you feels that you're so much
Speaker 1: better at managing with the children because that's how you feel, UM,
Speaker 1: then maybe you're the one wants to take over all
Speaker 1: the housework um or or vice versa. Or you may
Speaker 1: just find that fifty fifty feels pretty good for both. Um.
Speaker 1: Most people do feel like they need to break at
Speaker 1: some point from the kids. And so I think sitting
Speaker 1: down at this juncture and saying, um, we both you know,
Speaker 1: we both have things we have to get done. We
Speaker 1: both can't do them all the time with the kids
Speaker 1: in our hair all the time. So let's get creative
Speaker 1: about what we can do to set them to have
Speaker 1: some independence, because that's a good thing, and for each
Speaker 1: of us to have a vision of labor in terms
Speaker 1: of when they can't have independence. You know, at the
Speaker 1: end of all this, what what you're what we're really
Speaker 1: talking about has an upside, and that is that in
Speaker 1: extremely difficult times, people have the opportunity to build coping skills.
Speaker 1: And when you use a bunch of coping skills that
Speaker 1: you've developed and you get through an incredibly difficult time,
Speaker 1: at the end of that, you've essentially built resilience. That
Speaker 1: is that is uh, something you get to permanently own
Speaker 1: and it is something that you can take back out
Speaker 1: and use for the next whatever might come. And so
Speaker 1: I think that, um, you know it's uh people if
Speaker 1: they could try to look at it that way, Essentially
Speaker 1: you are this is not for nothing. Uh, You're going
Speaker 1: to develop some skills that are going to be good
Speaker 1: for you and your partner, but you're also going to
Speaker 1: help your kids build some coping tools Like this is
Speaker 1: you know, we don't know this the once in a
Speaker 1: lifetime occurrence and what other difficult things will come. But
Speaker 1: life always brings difficult things, and it's your kids learns
Speaker 1: sees you model and learns how to build their own
Speaker 1: coping tools in this time that is very good for them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's kind of priceless for the rest of their life.
Speaker 1: So so I you know, I'm also very cognizant of
Speaker 1: people who are raising children by themselves single moms, which
Speaker 1: there are obviously a lot um anything special that you
Speaker 1: can recommend for them. Obviously they've already have great coping skills. Um.
Speaker 1: But but but this is an unusual challenge. It is
Speaker 1: an unusual challenge. Is harder when you're when you're doing
Speaker 1: everything on your own. UM. Probably something that they've been
Speaker 1: doing intermittently or may have been doing intermittently, but if
Speaker 1: they haven't, certainly would do now? Is you know, this
Speaker 1: is when it might be worth you know, being together
Speaker 1: with another family member of sibling, uh, an older a parent,
Speaker 1: um or a friend who is also a single mom.
Speaker 1: But you know, being that you're not supposed to be
Speaker 1: in big groups, but you know we're going to be
Speaker 1: in this for a long while. So having another person,
Speaker 1: another adult that you feel comfortable that you could live
Speaker 1: with and share the work with, is not a bad
Speaker 1: thing at this time. Yeah, community is becoming so apparently important,
Speaker 1: so obviously important, I should say, And you know, I
Speaker 1: feel that even though we're not physically together, I think
Speaker 1: community and reaching out with community is changing people's lives
Speaker 1: pretty quickly right now. But I think your point is
Speaker 1: so important that if you can build a smaller community
Speaker 1: right now, even in person community, if you need it,
Speaker 1: it's it's the time to do it. UM. One of
Speaker 1: the things that we stand for at Seneca Women. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's really based on the principles of know your power,
Speaker 1: find your purpose, and connect with others. UM. And what
Speaker 1: I've been finding personally, and I think those of uh,
Speaker 1: those of us at Seneca Women have been finding, is
Speaker 1: that actually reaching out and trying to help other people
Speaker 1: is bringing a lot of peace. Uh. And and is
Speaker 1: a way to cope, UM and bring so much positive energy.
Speaker 1: So are you seeing people reacting to being useful in
Speaker 1: this moment in different and new ways? Very much so.
Speaker 1: I not in new ways in the sense that, UM,
Speaker 1: whenever there is you know, real trauma and real difficulty,
Speaker 1: could talk about a natural disaster post nine eleven or
Speaker 1: you know, other illnesses. UM. Contributing is a coping mechanism,
Speaker 1: and we know, I mean there's lots of data that
Speaker 1: show that basically giving you know, boost your own mood
Speaker 1: from the helpers, yeah, and decreases your own anxiety exactly.
Speaker 1: So contributing is in the ability to steel helpful. I
Speaker 1: think one of the most difficult things we to go
Speaker 1: back towards. You originally talked about dealing uncertainty and feeling
Speaker 1: lack of control. Feeling helpless is another real difficulty in
Speaker 1: this that is stoking trouble for people in terms of
Speaker 1: their mood and the more that one is able to
Speaker 1: do to feel helpful, even if it's not directly, people create,
Speaker 1: you know, collecting for donations for things that don't have,
Speaker 1: you know, to do with the virus per se. But
Speaker 1: even people who are saying, I'm going to go through
Speaker 1: my closet now because I'm stuck at home and I'm
Speaker 1: going to donate you know what, I think I don't
Speaker 1: wear enough. Um and uh, you know people who are like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna, I'm gonna foster dogs because when that whole
Speaker 1: rumor went around about maybe coronaviruses and dogs, which was
Speaker 1: completely untrue, some people gave up their dogs and the
Speaker 1: foster system got overloaded, and now there are a bunch
Speaker 1: of dogs who don't have homes. And and so I've
Speaker 1: seen people say, Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna figure out
Speaker 1: how to walk or feed a dog or foster dog
Speaker 1: or all all manner of you know, ways of contributing
Speaker 1: and helping others. And like I said, helping others doesn't
Speaker 1: even have to be directly related to the coronavirus, but
Speaker 1: it is. It is actually a good coping tool. Well,
Speaker 1: we've tried to set up some resources on cening women
Speaker 1: dot com and on our app um, just giving a
Speaker 1: list of things you can do to help help women
Speaker 1: and the greater community in this moment. So for us
Speaker 1: it's made a great difference. Um. So before we go,
Speaker 1: I just want to ask you one last question, UM,
Speaker 1: what makes you optimistic in this moment? Well, uh, what
Speaker 1: makes me optimistic is twofold. Um, we have weather. You know,
Speaker 1: history always repeats itself and if you do you know,
Speaker 1: for people who have looked back at difficult things, at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, we always do weather and
Speaker 1: come out the other end. And we're already seeing signs
Speaker 1: that that in this very specific incidence can happen that
Speaker 1: you know, China is no new reported cases. Um that
Speaker 1: at some point, if we do the right thing now,
Speaker 1: we will you know, see a resolution to this at
Speaker 1: some point. Um. So obviously that gives me direct and
Speaker 1: concrete optimism. But I also feel optimism because I think
Speaker 1: it is part of human nature two m to cope,
Speaker 1: to develop resilience, sometimes to actually be extraordinary in the
Speaker 1: face of trauma and difficulty. I see this in my
Speaker 1: practice all the time, and uh that you know there
Speaker 1: will be extraordinary individuals coming out of this and contributing,
Speaker 1: and in that way we will we will be for
Speaker 1: the better. Well, I cannot thank you enough for joining us.
Speaker 1: I know you have an incredibly hectic schedule during this period,
Speaker 1: and uh, I know a lot of people will benefit
Speaker 1: from hearing you, So thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Seneca Women Conversations on Power and Purpose,
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