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Speaker 1: Taking a Walk.

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Speaker 2: The saddest part for me is that I only had

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Speaker 2: the opportunity to work for one woman. All my other bosses,

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Speaker 2: which I had amazing bosses and mentors that all happened

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Speaker 2: to have ben men, but I had one female boss,

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Speaker 2: Lindy Thurman, who's I still talk to you almost every day,

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Speaker 2: who became that figure in my life, That was the

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Speaker 2: person that I trusted most deeply to give me honest feedback.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to this episode of the Taken a Walk podcast

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Speaker 1: hosted by Buzznight. Buzz speaks with musicians, insiders, and industry leaders,

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Speaker 1: and today he's got the inspiring story of an insider

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Speaker 1: and leader of the digital media world for musicians. Jenny

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Speaker 1: Smythe is a renowned entrepreneur and the founder and CEO

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Speaker 1: of girl Lilla Marketing, a leading digital marketing firm based

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Speaker 1: in Nashville. Smith launched Girlilla Marketing in two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 1: which has become a powerhouse in digital strategy for notable

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Speaker 1: entertainers and brands. Her memoir, Becoming Girlilla, shares her journey

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Speaker 1: through career highs, personal challenges, and her fight against breast cancer.

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Speaker 1: Here's Buzznight with Jenny Smyth on taking a Walk.

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Speaker 3: So, Jenny, welcome to taking a walk.

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Speaker 4: It's so nice to be with you. I wish it

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Speaker 4: was in person, but we'll do that sometime.

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Speaker 2: We will do that for sure.

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Speaker 5: But since the podcast is called taking a Walk, I

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Speaker 5: do have to ask you if you could take a

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Speaker 5: walk with someone living or dead, who would you take

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Speaker 5: a walk with and where would you take that walk.

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Speaker 2: I would call my grandmother who was on my mom's side,

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Speaker 2: and she lived on this great block in Phoenix, Arizona,

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Speaker 2: that that had orange trees and grapefruit trees, and so

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Speaker 2: I would just love to And I used to walk

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Speaker 2: with her as a kid, So I think it would

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Speaker 2: be awesome to be able to do that again, and

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Speaker 2: like just the idea of like how that smelled and

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Speaker 2: the memories and you know, it was just it was

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Speaker 2: a it was a great time, and I would think

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Speaker 2: it would be a huge privilege to do that again.

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Speaker 4: Do you get to take a walk in the midst

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Speaker 4: of your chaotic schedule to just sort of clear the air,

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Speaker 4: whether you're you know, creatively blocked with something or just

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Speaker 4: need a bit of fresh air, do you do you

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Speaker 4: go take a walk?

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Speaker 2: I'm extreme on the walk side. In fact, right now

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Speaker 2: I am training for a sixty mile walk for Susan

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Speaker 2: g Coman. This will be my second time walking. And

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Speaker 2: so yeah, I mean we walked. I walked all the

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Speaker 2: way through cancer treatment. Sometimes that's sometimes I could only

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Speaker 2: get up and walk through the distance of my driveway.

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Speaker 2: But yes, walking, running, exercising, all of that super important

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Speaker 2: to me.

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Speaker 4: So talk about the early experiences with Electra, with Hollywood Records,

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Speaker 4: Warner Brothers, key lessons that came out of those experiences

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Speaker 4: that have shaped you to this day.

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Speaker 2: So many I mean truly look back at that as

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Speaker 2: I say this a lot. I didn't go to We

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Speaker 2: moved around a bit, so I didn't have that high

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Speaker 2: school or grow up with the same people experience, you know,

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Speaker 2: where you would kind of go back and see each

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Speaker 2: other and have a reunion or anything like that. And

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Speaker 2: so those first years that I spent working as assistants,

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Speaker 2: as an assistant in some of those places that you mentioned,

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Speaker 2: were formative for me as growing into an adult. And

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Speaker 2: so not only were those jobs jobs that sustained a

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Speaker 2: very expensive city rent that I had to make every

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Speaker 2: single month, but they were also like older siblings in

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Speaker 2: a way, you know, people that taught me how to

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Speaker 2: get insurance, and you know people that I would talk

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Speaker 2: about dating with. And you know, my friend groups all

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Speaker 2: came from from all of us being at the same

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Speaker 2: level at some of those companies. So while I was

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Speaker 2: truly learning a skill and understanding a business, I was

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Speaker 2: also learning how to be an adult and learning how

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Speaker 2: to be a good friend, and you know, building a

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Speaker 2: professional network. And really those are still some of the

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Speaker 2: people that I talked to every single day.

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Speaker 4: Now, when you came out of those particular experiences, you

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Speaker 4: really didn't see over the horizon what you would become

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Speaker 4: with your gorilla marketing company, right that was not even

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Speaker 4: in your sits.

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Speaker 2: Not not even close. I mean, the only thing I

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Speaker 2: knew is that I wanted to work at a record company.

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Speaker 2: So the day that I went on full time payroll

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Speaker 2: at Electure Entertainment, I was nineteen years old. I made

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Speaker 2: nineteen thousand dollars, I had health insurance, and I thought

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Speaker 2: I'd made it. That was it. Like I got out,

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Speaker 2: I got in the door. I got a job in

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Speaker 2: the city that I wanted to be in, in the

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Speaker 2: industry that I wanted to be in, and so everything

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Speaker 2: that's happened to me. Since that day, there's been terrible things,

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Speaker 2: you know, but like from a professional standpoint, you couldn't

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Speaker 2: have told me anything other than I had made it.

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Speaker 4: And can you express how difficult then and now it

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Speaker 4: is being a woman in the entertainment and music business.

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Speaker 2: I think for me, certainly, I've had some spicy moments

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Speaker 2: happened to me. But the saddest part for me is

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Speaker 2: that I only had the opportunity to work for one woman.

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Speaker 2: All my other bosses, which I had amazing bosses and

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Speaker 2: mentors that all happened to have been men. But I

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Speaker 2: had one female boss, Lindy Thurman, who's I still talk

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Speaker 2: to you almost every day, who became that figure in

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Speaker 2: my life. That was the person that I trusted most

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Speaker 2: deeply to give me honest feedback and and it became

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Speaker 2: a very maternal relationship. So the that was I feel

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Speaker 2: like I missed opportunities to have more amazing female mentorship

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Speaker 2: so when I had the chance to, and I always

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Speaker 2: had female co workers, so that you know, that wasn't it,

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Speaker 2: But just to have a boss, you know, a female

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Speaker 2: boss that you could look up to to so you

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Speaker 2: could see yourself like there's there is a place for

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Speaker 2: me here, you know. So I decided to turn that

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Speaker 2: sadness into action, and and subconsciously or consciously, I can't

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Speaker 2: I can't confirm, because I would love to say it

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Speaker 2: was my idea ever since I was ex you know,

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Speaker 2: but that's just not the case. The case is that

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Speaker 2: as I went on, I only really hired mostly females,

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Speaker 2: and I am most comfortable in that environment. And it

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Speaker 2: makes me proud that seventeen years later I was able

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Speaker 2: to create the company that I had envisioned I wanted

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Speaker 2: to work for that just didn't exist at the time.

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Speaker 4: Reflect for a bit as someone you know, based in Nashville,

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Speaker 4: and when you think about the incredible amount of very

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Speaker 4: strong women that are working in Nashville. We've had a

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Speaker 4: couple of them on the podcast, Carrie Edwards Martha Earles

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Speaker 4: as examples. When you sort of observed the landscape, give

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Speaker 4: me your perspective as a female leader, how you observe

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Speaker 4: the female leadership in Nashville.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know what's funny is that in digital media

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Speaker 2: we've always been female heavy. So some of the first

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Speaker 2: departments that I ever saw female's lead were digital marketing.

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Speaker 2: They called it new media at the time, and so

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Speaker 2: I've seen it. I've seen it. Even if it was

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Speaker 2: my competitive you know, a competitive company, I've seen it.

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Speaker 2: I've been friendly. And I will say that being in Nashville,

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Speaker 2: I'm surrounded more by women than any other time in

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Speaker 2: my career. And that could just be the time in

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Speaker 2: my career as well, but there's no shortage of amazing

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Speaker 2: female leadership and entrepreneurship in Nashville, and I think a

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Speaker 2: big part of that is what I love about the

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Speaker 2: Nashville side is that a lot of the women that

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Speaker 2: I I look up to are on the creative side

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Speaker 2: and on the songwriting side and on the management side,

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Speaker 2: and so I feel like they are protective of the

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Speaker 2: asset of the writer, of the performer, which is that's

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Speaker 2: the backbone of our business. And so it's it is

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Speaker 2: lovely to see the level of protection that we have

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Speaker 2: on those precious assets because it really does allow for

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Speaker 2: us to continue growing for generations to come.

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Speaker 3: Where did you learn to be a great listener?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I think my husband would argue with

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Speaker 2: you on that. I think he would. I think he

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Speaker 2: would fall out of his chair if you said that

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Speaker 2: to him. I don't I don't know. I think by

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Speaker 2: mistake because early on in my career I was much

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Speaker 2: more interested in being heard than hearing other people. And

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Speaker 2: I was quick to be the first person to speak

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Speaker 2: up in a meeting because I wanted everyone to know

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Speaker 2: how smart I was and how great my idea was

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Speaker 2: or how right I was, you know, like, which in

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Speaker 2: turn meant let me tell somebody else how wrong they were.

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Speaker 2: And I had a couple of bosses that really sat

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Speaker 2: me down and you know, gave me some directions that

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Speaker 2: I definitely needed in order to become a better leader.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more the Taking a Walk Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast.

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Speaker 4: The subtitle of the book, Becoming Gorilla is my journey

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Speaker 4: to unleashing good in real life, online and in others.

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Speaker 4: So when did that epiphany occur to use your work

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Speaker 4: for a greater good?

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Speaker 2: So it happened simultaneously in a couple different areas in

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Speaker 2: my life. The first area was I unfortunately lost right

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Speaker 2: around the same time that I was ill. I lost

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Speaker 2: three people that were very important to me, two of

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Speaker 2: which I worked with and one that I worked for.

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Speaker 2: And they were incredible leaders and incredible human beings that

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Speaker 2: had bestowed a ton of knowledge to me, and I

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Speaker 2: felt like I had all this information and I needed

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Speaker 2: to pass it on. It was like my duty to

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Speaker 2: pass it on. So I just kind of sought out

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Speaker 2: to like just start writing those lessons down, and mostly

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Speaker 2: business lessons, but like formative workplace lessons, also lessons that

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Speaker 2: we've all. You know, I've been on the digital side

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Speaker 2: for so many years now that I've seen the cycles

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Speaker 2: repeat themselves, and so I didn't want to waste any

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Speaker 2: more time. I wanted to give people the cheat sheet,

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Speaker 2: you know, the cliff notes, to like, hey, this is

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Speaker 2: what this looks like, and this is how you deal

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Speaker 2: with it. Let's move on and go go do something important.

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Speaker 2: The second part of that was COVID. You know, like

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden, people that I loved were isolated,

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Speaker 2: and I just saw such aggression and negativity online in

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Speaker 2: a time that we should be coming together that for once,

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Speaker 2: it kind of affected me. And I have a tough skin,

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Speaker 2: like this isn't you know. I'm on the internet all

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Speaker 2: the time. I see all the bullies, I see all

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Speaker 2: the horrible things that people say to each other. But

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Speaker 2: it wasn't my friends. It wasn't my family, you know,

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Speaker 2: and going through some of the political shenanigans that all

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Speaker 2: of us have been, you know, going through for the

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Speaker 2: last couple of cycles. It's just very hurtful to see

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Speaker 2: people lose themselves, you know, and their friendships over something

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Speaker 2: about that they read on Facebook. And so I felt like,

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Speaker 2: you know, it was kind of one of those situations

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Speaker 2: that you find yourself in when you're of a certain

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Speaker 2: age where you're like, yeah, we should do that, we

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Speaker 2: should do that too. Who's going to do that? And

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Speaker 2: then you realize you look around and you're like, oh,

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Speaker 2: that's me. Okay, I have to do that. I have

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Speaker 2: to carry that ball forward. I'm the one with the

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Speaker 2: information that I can share. And so for the first

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Speaker 2: time in a long time, I wasn't worried about having

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Speaker 2: an opinion. You know, most of my career has been

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Speaker 2: built on being behind the scenes to help other people,

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Speaker 2: no matter what their opinion is, carry out their message

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Speaker 2: in a way that you know they're able to to

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Speaker 2: the best of their ability. And now I'm sort of

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Speaker 2: of them of the mindset that you know, we all

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Speaker 2: need to need a little bit of a reset.

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Speaker 4: So what have we put all of your employees with

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Speaker 4: you in a conference room, and then you walked out

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Speaker 4: and we asked them to speak about what it's like

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Speaker 4: to be led by you to work for your company.

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Speaker 3: What do you? What do you?

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Speaker 1: What?

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Speaker 3: Would your employees say?

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Speaker 2: They're all so incredibly different in our little office, we

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Speaker 2: have a microcosm of the whole world with in terms

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Speaker 2: of opinions and backgrounds and passions and you know, all

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Speaker 2: of that. But I would hope that they would they

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's going to be some jokes, you know,

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Speaker 2: I mean for sure, because like we are an entire

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Speaker 2: building of you know, sarcastic, witty, quippie women. But I

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Speaker 2: would like to believe that they would say that I

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Speaker 2: respect them, and I respect the differences, and that I

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Speaker 2: listen to them, and that they ultimately feel empowered to

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Speaker 2: make the best decisions that they can.

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Speaker 4: How do you size up future employees? What do you

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Speaker 4: what's the keys to hire?

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Speaker 3: And great?

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Speaker 2: That's a that's a really good question, because I would

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Speaker 2: I would chant there's so many talented marketing people, but

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Speaker 2: there aren't the chemistry and the building is so important,

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Speaker 2: so by adding another person, we really can throw the

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Speaker 2: balance off. Or when somebody who is prolifically influential, and

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Speaker 2: the building goes on because they get like a great

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Speaker 2: opportunity or whatever it can. It can ricochet pretty pretty

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Speaker 2: wildly in the building, not only for our own chemistry,

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Speaker 2: but also for our clients that grew close to them.

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Speaker 2: But I think my biggest flex of being a small

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Speaker 2: business owner and being a digital marketing person is that

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Speaker 2: we actually have retained people for a long time, which

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Speaker 2: historically speaking this side of the world can be rather transient.

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Speaker 2: So that's probably my biggest flex.

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Speaker 4: The day we're recording this, the day before a situation

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Speaker 4: occurred where Napster was just sold, I wanted to get

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Speaker 4: your take on when you hear that news and you

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Speaker 4: hear about Napster over so many of our years of

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Speaker 4: our career, what you think of this.

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Speaker 2: Just it's so boring, like again, like how many times

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Speaker 2: you know? And at the end of the day, I think,

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Speaker 2: from a branding perspective, no matter who buys and how

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Speaker 2: much money you put behind a certain brand, if there

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Speaker 2: is a feeling of you know, distrust or there isn't

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Speaker 2: an affinity, I think those of us that went through

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Speaker 2: the first round of Napster, you were either team Napster

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Speaker 2: because you were like downloading the shit out of those

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Speaker 2: out out of those songs. That was me. I was like,

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Speaker 2: this is great. I don't want to get sued by

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Speaker 2: the ri double A, but like, this is also great,

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Speaker 2: you know. And then from a marketing perspective, you're thinking, Okay,

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Speaker 2: sure this is illegal downloads, but at the end of

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Speaker 2: the day, isn't this giving us information that we can

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Speaker 2: use to inform our strategy in the in the straight world,

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Speaker 2: you know, to say, like what songs are actually like

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Speaker 2: what are people pursuing versus you know, how how arrogant

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Speaker 2: were we in the music business to say when you're

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Speaker 2: going to listen you know what songs you're going to

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Speaker 2: listen to, and you're going to like this song, and

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Speaker 2: you're going to like this song for forty weeks before

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Speaker 2: we even release it to you to where you can

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Speaker 2: buy it. That was what we were doing. So then

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Speaker 2: you have the opposite, you have the exact opposite feeling

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Speaker 2: of affinity for Napster for some people, which was also

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Speaker 2: valid by the way that it ruined the music business.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know how many times you try to

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Speaker 2: rebrand that or you resell it, especially when you have

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Speaker 2: players in the field like Spotify and Amazon and Apple

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Speaker 2: Music that are they come with their own set of

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Speaker 2: affinities and also affection and the opposite. But nothing is

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Speaker 2: ever going to be napster like I just I would be.

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Speaker 2: I hope I'm wrong, and you know whatever, But I

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Speaker 2: just I don't see it as a brand that any

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Speaker 2: anybody in the music business with any kind of memory

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Speaker 2: ever sees being a major player.

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Speaker 4: Again, so can you brag a second with a couple

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Speaker 4: of maybe examples of some campaigns for some artists that

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Speaker 4: your company has recently done that that you're really proud of.

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Speaker 2: I will tell you I get asked this question a lot.

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Speaker 3: And darn, I shouldn't have asked it.

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Speaker 2: Oh, no question, you know the other question that I

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Speaker 2: get asked a lot. But I want to say that

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Speaker 2: I am most proud of when one of our clients

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Speaker 2: is passionate about a cause or a nonprofit or has

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Speaker 2: the ability to shine light on an important matter, and

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Speaker 2: they use their platforms and are creative respectful way to

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Speaker 2: do that. I will also say that my work with

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Speaker 2: the CMA and the CMA Foundation, even though it's not

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Speaker 2: my direct work, but the idea that our genre performs

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Speaker 2: for free. Two basically bankroll the CMA Foundation, which is

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Speaker 2: rooted in public music education for children. And my, it's

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Speaker 2: just it's so unique to Nashville and country music. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we do see amazing campaigns of people coming together. We

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Speaker 2: just saw it with the Wildfire Fund, but consistently quietly

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Speaker 2: without any credit, you know, just the millions and millions

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Speaker 2: of dollars that get funneled into music education in our country,

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Speaker 2: not just in Nashville, Bill, not just in Tennessee. That

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Speaker 2: is amazing. And then I would also say that Music

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Speaker 2: Health Alliance is I think boots on the ground helping

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Speaker 2: musicians and people in the music industry every single day.

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Speaker 2: I mean, from you know, dental care to heart transplants,

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Speaker 2: and the idea that we would create that Tatum Alsop

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Speaker 2: would create a company, a nonprofit that takes care of

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Speaker 2: an entire community. That is what I think is amazing

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Speaker 2: about music and specifically about Nashville, and almost every single

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Speaker 2: one of my clients of course, you know, I'm I

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Speaker 2: are either already involved with either of those organizations or

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Speaker 2: I have the opportunity to tell them about opportunities that

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Speaker 2: they can plug in. And so that is That is

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Speaker 2: what I'm most proud of.

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Speaker 3: Closing the book Becoming Gorilla.

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Speaker 4: It's a lot about you know, resilience, authenticity, but it's

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Speaker 4: also about continuous learning.

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Speaker 3: So what are you still trying to learn?

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Speaker 2: My god? Everything? I mean, kids that humble me. My

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Speaker 2: husband is also an entrepreneur, so he's always doing something,

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Speaker 2: and neither one of us are afraid to fail. If

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Speaker 2: you fail, you're like okay, you know, like, well anyways,

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Speaker 2: we move on. But for me, every single day there's

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Speaker 2: something to figure out. So I just know that I

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Speaker 2: walk into my day knowing there's something that's going to

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Speaker 2: challenge me, and so I'm not derailed by that, you know,

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Speaker 2: or the strategy that I laid out on Tuesday on

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Speaker 2: Thursday is obsolete. That happens a lot, but I will

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Speaker 2: say that I have come to a certain age where,

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Speaker 2: you know, I am patient. I listen to everybody's big plans,

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Speaker 2: and just like the cycles that we were talking about earlier,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, have you thought about this? And there's a like, no,

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Speaker 2: I've never I haven't thought about that. I'm like, okay, well,

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Speaker 2: like that's kind of my skill now, right to be

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Speaker 2: the person that can poke holes in some of the plans,

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Speaker 2: and it used to be, especially in digital media, you

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Speaker 2: needed to be first and you needed to be fast,

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Speaker 2: and that is not the case anymore. You know, we

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Speaker 2: can we don't have to reinvent the wheel the whole time,

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Speaker 2: and we don't have to be the first person to

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Speaker 2: do as many things as possible. So the idea that

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Speaker 2: we can be creative and thoughtful and not only in

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Speaker 2: what we put out there, but how we communicate with people,

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Speaker 2: it's just a it's it's it's part of the ethos,

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Speaker 2: you know. So I think people forget that sometimes, so

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Speaker 2: being able to remind them that it's it's it's Instagram.

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Speaker 2: You know, at the end of the day, if you're

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Speaker 2: having this much stress out, is stress about it or

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Speaker 2: you are feeling, you know, overwhelmed by it, like you

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Speaker 2: you can take a break, you can there's ways to

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Speaker 2: work around it. And I get the same questions from

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Speaker 2: musicians as I get from my mom friends, you know,

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Speaker 2: I as I get from big brands. Like everybody is

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Speaker 2: concerned about safety, everybody's concerned about data, everybody wants to

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Speaker 2: have more followers and more engagement. So it's it's the same.

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Speaker 2: So I try to answer some of those questions in

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Speaker 2: the book, and hopefully my hope is that when people

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Speaker 2: read it, they feel a little better about it.

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Speaker 3: The book is great. Congratulations and I appreciate you spend

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Speaker 3: the time.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, nice Walkay, Thanks Jane, appreciate you.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a

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Speaker 1: Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends

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Speaker 1: and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking

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Speaker 1: a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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