WEBVTT - John Waite 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:13.240 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to Bob Left That's podcast. My 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:17.200 guest today is John Weet, who has a new documentary 0:00:17.239 --> 0:00:21.560 which will be released on December six. John, good to 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:26.640 have you on the podcast. Why now, Why a documentary? Uh? 0:00:26.960 --> 0:00:30.000 I don't know. It just happened. I was stiving to 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:34.320 an old friend of mine in Poland the Black Lives 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:38.239 Matter protests that that turned into a riot and they 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:42.720 were burning potland and he lived up there and I 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:44.480 I called him up to see if it was all right. 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:48.639 And we got talking and he said, you know, you've 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:52.280 got such an interesting life and history and you're still 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:55.320 out there doing it. This is making a fabulous movie, 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:57.120 you know. And I said, well, you know, that's so 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:00.320 very well. But who would want to make it? You know? 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:03.000 And he called me back a month later with the 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:09.080 backing and yeah, I just fell into it. I did. 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:12.840 I just fell into it. It just it wasn't planned. 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:16.400 It just happened. So how much money did it take 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:20.240 to make the movie? I have no idea, you see, Um, 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:22.800 I know it's a consumerable amount. It's like a full 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:27.839 budget documentary. But I had nothing to do with any 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:32.119 of the personnel or the choices of footage. I just 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:36.920 showed up for the interviews. Uh. It was simplicit in 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:41.400 the deal that I I wouldn't ask to see anything 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:45.040 before it was finished. I didn't want to have any 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:48.600 kind of input on a on what it looked like. 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:51.200 If it's going to be a documentary, and it's certainly's 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:56.320 objective viewpoint of view, um or subjective. I mean, that's 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:59.000 what it is. That's a that's a documentary. And I 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:02.760 had enough for expect for the medium, so no, I 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:06.240 thought it would be ridiculous to get involved. You know, Well, 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:11.200 it's interesting because, in the light of high deaf cameras 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:17.519 on your phone, seemingly every musician has a documentary and uh, 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:21.480 but yours is radically different. It's just not an embellishment 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:24.360 of your career, really gets down into the nitty gritty 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:27.760 of your identity, your struggles. So it's a great watch, 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:31.600 even for someone who is not familiar with his career. 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:35.919 But since you had no involvement, now that it's finished, yet, 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:42.000 what's your assessment. Well, it took me three months to 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:45.079 watch it. It sent me a finished company and I 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:47.440 just refused to watch it. And then one night I 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:50.800 drank about the wine and said to nice tonight, you know, 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:53.120 and I watched it and I was kind of dumb struck, 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:56.480 and I thought, well, what's that? And then the next 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:59.400 day I watched it again, completely sober, and I thought, well, 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:03.640 there you go. You know, um, I think it's uh, 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:07.160 it isn't like it's like a nonlinear thing. It starts 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:12.200 off uh in the present, and bounces back to the babies, 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:14.200 and then it moves forward to my parents and he 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:17.680 going to art school, my love of Western music as 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:21.399 a kid, and then it's sort of it shoots too 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:26.440 bad English and then winds up in the present. So uh, 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:31.399 it's still of a style that somebody's personality that I 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:34.360 find it hard to critique. When he certainly makes a 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:40.320 movie about you, you can't really say anything, can you, Bob? 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:45.840 If they if they made a documentary in your life, Um, 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:48.320 how would you react to that? Well, you know, this 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:52.960 is something that's interesting because John Winner, who started an 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:56.120 own Rolling Stone, he hired someone to write a book 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:59.360 about him, and then he wasn't happy and he wrote 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:03.360 his own book, which really undercut his identity because if 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:05.600 somebody else who writes it can say, well you have 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:12.480 plausible deniability. Yeah, yeah, the memory has us as some 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:15.840 really convenient edit points, you know, And I've found that 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:21.360 with with the documentaries I've actually watched, Uh, people skip 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:25.599 over the dark stuff and it's all promotional, you know. 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:28.719 I mean, it's the tool to sell more records. It's 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:32.360 the tool to promote the artist. And I just said 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:38.360 no interest in that. I mean, you know, I uh, 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:42.080 you know how often this is happening in a lifetime. Somebody, 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:44.479 you know, knock on the door at dawn and you 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:46.560 open the door and there's a film crew. You know, 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:50.600 it's just the artest thing. I mean, I think anybody 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:53.280 outside of the situation with know more about it than me. 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:56.320 I just tried to tell the truth and keep it 0:04:56.360 --> 0:05:02.359 straight first, you know, Okay, having watched the MO movie, Uh, 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:05.480 how's your state of mind? The movie was filmed during 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:09.719 COVID when you weren't working, and you were not happy 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:13.279 about that. It caused tensions in your relationship. Now that 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:16.720 you're back on the road, is everything hunky dory or 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:18.400 you know, we live in a completely different era. You 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:20.919 had great breakthroughs in the MTV era, and it's in 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:24.440 the movie where you're a household name around the world. 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:27.560 You almost can't leave the you know, go to the supermarket. 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:32.039 But what's it like for you today? Uh? What you 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:35.960 mean fan wise? After the Well, let's start inside your head. 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:40.800 Are you depressed? Are you optimistic? Well no, I'm always optimistic. 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:43.880 It's the one thing that's probably kept me up and 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:46.320 running is that I always think today it's going to 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:48.720 be a great day, and I never even think about it. 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:52.040 I believe in it, you know, and uh, you can 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:55.000 stumble across something that makes the great or at least 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:58.040 the best you can do. UM. I think the pandemic 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:03.000 was very difficult for everybody. Relationships, uh, the lot. I mean, 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:08.240 when you're sort of locked into a life of um 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:10.760 not being able to go outside and connect with people, 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:15.479 or being a musician, UM, not being able to transmit 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:20.000 all those ideas and have that exchange, it's bound to 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:22.640 have a negative effect. I mean, it was very depressing. 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:26.240 It's how to look back on it. Interestingly enough, I 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:29.720 don't really remember much about it. It's like it's just 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:33.840 the same day over and over again. So it was 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:37.240 a terrible time, you know. I but I think we 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:39.240 came out swinging at the end of it, you know, 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:41.800 I think it was it was great to be back. 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:45.880 And we haven't stopped working since. We came out early 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:50.240 like last July and played a couple of private shows 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:53.280 and then we just hit the road and played right 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:55.560 through the rest of the year. And this year we 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:58.400 started started off making up for the gigs that have 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:03.080 been rescheduled, did a complete American tour, went straight from 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:07.040 there to Holland, and came back like three weeks ago 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:12.400 and played another show in Massachusetts and then we're off again, 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:15.400 I mean St. Louis today. So there is something about 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:20.600 moving and taking stock and re evaluates he what's going 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:23.320 on and where the work is and what least to 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:26.400 to be done to move forward. You know, a lot 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:31.040 of acts had financial issues, not working, the had overhead, 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:33.960 they had bands. Was it a struggle for you or 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:36.680 did you have enough in savings? No, I've certainly had 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:39.920 nothing in the bank. I've been taken care to stopped 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:42.040 by as much many as I can since I got 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:44.520 control of my career to make up for lost time. 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:49.560 You know. Um. The unfortunate thing, just sort of like 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:55.400 the sideline, is that now that Spotify is streaming artist 0:07:55.560 --> 0:08:01.680 music and paying such a minimal royalty, ya, the artist 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:05.280 as usual falls back on working live to make up 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:09.160 for that to get through, and with a pandemic that 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:12.240 was taken away as well. So a lot of musicians 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:16.400 really got hurt in that situation. But I was looking 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:19.240 that I had enough royalties coming in and enough in 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:23.320 the bank not to worry about it. Okay, when Napster 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:27.520 came in and royalty started going down in the earlier 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:32.959 part of this century, were you still having a significant 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:38.920 payment in recording royalties that fell off? It just maybe 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:42.720 by about sevent I mean, at one point, you know, 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:45.880 I had so many hits, like with the Babies and 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:49.600 with the solo stuff about English and recently you know, 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:51.839 with the with the stuff that's getting played on radio. 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:57.000 But once uh Spotify came in, that was the end 0:08:57.040 --> 0:08:59.920 of that. It was just like a piece of Peter 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:05.480 Framptons said, if he's gets a million streams, he gets 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:10.240 like a hundred dollars. You know, it's an absurd small 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:17.600 amount that's been sort of but surely given to the artist. Okay, 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:21.239 let's talk about all your records. Who owned those records? 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:24.280 Obviously your recent solo ones I believe you own, but 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:27.640 the stuff on crystalists and stuff with bad English are 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:30.400 those still owned by the record company or those owned 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:33.360 by you. Well, the baby stuff will always be with 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:39.400 Christmas and the first solo. Um, I've got the publishing 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:45.160 back on everything forward of that, Uh I have, while 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:49.760 I own with the rest of about English about English stuff. Uh, 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:53.400 that will come back to me probably this year. I mean, 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:55.840 so no letter he comes back to you. I mean 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:57.880 I did try and get that. I did. I really 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:00.840 did try and get some of it back from Christmas. 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:07.880 But uh, it's just technicalsis. You know, there's lawyers involved, 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:11.280 and it goes to cool and they have bigger lawyers 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:15.559 than I do. Okay, you know you made multiple records 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:20.040 with Chrysalis, and the way the game works, many acts 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:22.320 sell millions of records, but they still don't get any 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:26.040 royalties because the record company says they're still in the red. Yeah. 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:27.559 Do you happen to know if you're in the red 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:32.520 or the black with Chrysalis Um And definitely as far 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:35.720 as they say in the red. So there's a point 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:39.600 you get with that, we just say keep it. You know, 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:41.840 I don't want to get down on that level where 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:45.480 it's like, I mean, it's a squabble, you know, I mean, 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:48.520 it's had its head day. We were all young and crazy. 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:51.480 Me had careers out of it, and you have to 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:54.160 be philosophical about it and say, well, it gave me 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:56.520 a name and I was able to go forward from 0:10:56.559 --> 0:11:02.040 that point and and do very well. So at some 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:08.080 point you just don't want to cloud your life with it. Really, well, 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:11.120 that's a great philosophy. I wish everybody had that. But 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:13.640 needless to say, from when you broke in a mono 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:17.439 culture to today, you know, if you're the biggest act 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:19.120 in the world from that era and you put out 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:23.200 a single, it still gets no traction. So how do 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:26.320 you feel about making new music when it's so hard 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:31.720 to be noticed? Well, I think honestly, Um, you spend 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:35.400 six months right in a record and getting the right musicians, 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:39.680 the band and engineer, the right studio. It's very hard 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:42.079 work and there's a lot of commitment to it. The 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:44.840 songs have to be a really high caliber. You're not 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:48.320 messing around things, and you spend all the money like 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:51.000 fifty ground or whatever it is, which is a reasonable 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:53.200 amount of money to make a great record. If you 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:55.880 can't make a great record for fifty ground, there's something 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:58.319 wrong with you. And the idea is to do first, 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:02.000 second tax and fix things, but not do it like 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:04.400 it used to be done, which is like recording every 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:08.280 uh instruments separately and all that kind of crap. It's 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:11.280 just really and but you put it out and in 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:13.760 this kind of day and age, it's only in the 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:18.400 spotlight for like a week and then it's gone. And 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:20.680 if you don't make records, your fans are kind of 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:26.480 annoyed it you for not doing anything new. So um, 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:28.560 it's a pleasure to make the albums, and it's a 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:31.520 pleasure to play them to the audience. And that you 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:35.480 really sell a lot of those albums at gigs, you know. 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:40.080 I mean nobody really buys CDs anymore, but they people 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:44.040 buy them. It shows because there are thousands and thousands 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:47.400 and thousands of CDs. It shows. But I think the 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:52.480 music business, as that's what we thought it was, just 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:57.480 simply doesn't exist anymore. It just does not exist. Okay, 0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:01.240 you go on the road at merch table, you sell 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:03.920 c ds? What else do you sell? And do you 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:07.720 personally get behind the merch table and sign it? It's 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:10.720 all signed. We do a meet and great. I try 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:14.000 and spend time with each person that comes that, I'll 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:18.200 just swheel them through. Uh, the very sincere, genuine kind 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:21.360 of They always met their effort to meet you. So 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:24.120 I've found that I could be quite social and put 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:26.079 people at their ease and talk to them for quite 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:29.120 a long time. And I can't imagine doing it any 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:31.480 other way. If you get behind the merch table, you're 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:34.439 gonna get mobbed. Oh it's going to get out of control. 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:38.880 It's gonna but everything signed. We have t shirts, CDs, buttons, lyrics, 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:42.720 pieces of art, I pen so you can buy all 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:45.199 sorts of things. We try and keep the price down. 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:49.160 I will say that instead of it being a fifted 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:51.439 on a T shirt, it's a twined on a T shirt. 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:54.319 Instead of it being a forded on the c D, 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:58.040 it's a twined on CD. And I think that's part 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:00.800 of the deal with the audience come to see you 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:03.880 and they stick with you to thick and thin, and 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:07.360 I'm not going to gouge my audience to two make 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:10.960 a profit. You know, it makes a profit, but it 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:14.040 isn't stupid, you know, but it's enough. So you're talking 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:18.280 about these hardcore John Wade bands, Do you actually know 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:24.040 some of them? Yeah, you know, over the years. You know, 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:27.960 you do see those spaces coming um in the front 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:30.840 row and you you know, give him a wink and 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:35.800 a smile and say hello. But it really is, you know, 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:39.280 it's like it's that thing I talked about the documentary 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:44.120 about the exchange. It really is. It transcends just going 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:47.720 out and playing and you know, being rock and all that, 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:52.120 there's something going on with music. You don't write music 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:54.320 to put in a vault and nobody here is that 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:57.960 you share it. In a perfect world, music really would 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:01.920 be free. You know, you can't hire a band, take 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:04.119 them out on the road and pay for the hotels 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:08.120 and airplane flights and not charged people. But there's a 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:10.160 middle ground where you can really bring it to the 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:14.880 people and celebrate that thing, and there is a feeling 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:17.480 of almost family about it. People show up and travel 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:21.800 from all of the world. You know, it's amazing. At 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:25.640 least I can do is show up and and share 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:29.920 it in a fair way. So prior to the pandemic, 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:34.880 going forward, how many days a year do you work, Well, 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:38.120 we were doing about seventy two a c days a year. 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:42.080 But this year we went to Holland, we did a 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:45.240 major American tour. We cliff the first half of the 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:49.080 year making up days. I would say we're about seventy 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:51.800 now and we have like twenty more days to go, 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:55.680 so we're probably about twenty more days ahead. As things are, 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:58.640 I think with the documentary coming out, we'll probably do 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:03.720 more days. Know, and you know, there are different styles 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:06.440 of going on the road based on income. There are 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:09.480 people who take private jets, there are people in station wagons, 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:13.200 people people and tour busters. How you doing it these days? 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:16.520 But we fly in, we're all flying from different places 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:19.960 and we meet at the airport. There's a van. Tim 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:22.520 runs off against the van. He picks us all up. 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:24.280 We thought the guitars in the back, goes to the 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:28.120 hotel or find some Indian food, then goes to the hotel. 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:31.520 We drive as much as we can. Everybody has to fly. 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:35.320 Flying in the airport and security just kills the vibe 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:38.200 of being out there. So we drive and if it's 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:41.840 a five hour drive, we'll leave after the show and 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:44.080 knock a couple of hours out and stay in a 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:47.520 hotel on the highway and then wake up, only get 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:49.760 back in the van and tracks the next game. It's 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:51.960 it's low impact. I think We've got it down to 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:56.640 a science. I really do. Um, everybody gets on, there's 0:16:56.640 --> 0:17:00.360 always jokes, you know, everybody's sort of knows what to do. 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:04.120 So it's the best it can be. It's really, Uh, 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:07.639 of all the touring I've done, this has been the easiest, 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:10.920 and in some ways it's open to the most things 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:12.960 going wrong. But we we just seem to sort of 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:18.040 like roll with the punches. There's a movie Paul Simon made, 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:20.880 I believe it was One Trick Pony and they're these 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:25.119 seems driving in the van where they're playing games like 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:27.680 Dead Rock Stars, et cetera. When you're in the van, 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:32.000 is their conversation or is everybody in their own world? Um? Well, 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:34.480 I hope they're not gonna play Dead brook Star because 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:39.280 fairly soon it's gonna be me. Uh let me see 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:43.119 no we we you know, it stunded off like a 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:46.040 lot of chassis, you know, and then we were playing 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:48.920 like Bill Evans, which feel like Bill Evans. And then 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:52.159 then it was Ell Fitzgerald and it was kind of like, 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:55.440 you know, free, and then it got more obscure, and 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:58.159 when it's cream and a bounced that we love. And 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:00.960 now everybody's start of reading the book or sleeping. You know. 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:04.000 I think there's a kind of nervous energy where you're 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:07.040 trying to communicate all the time, and that can get 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:09.520 in the way of the communication later on in the day. 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:12.840 I think if you if you can keep in your 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:17.919 own space mentally, you're gonna go to offer when you 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:22.440 actually get into that musical conversation on stage. Okay, so 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:26.840 let's assume you do a gig you end at eleven o'clock. Yeah. 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:30.879 What people don't realize is a musician is really wired 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:33.960 after that because you've given it all. You're all So 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:37.400 let's say it's a drive. So how long after the 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:40.800 gig are you gonna get into the van? And how 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:44.320 long before you personally can come down from the gig? Well, 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:47.159 that's you know, the adrenaline. Being a singer, me and 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:50.560 the drummer have the hardest gigs because it's a very aerobic, 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:55.359 kind of physically demanding thing. Yea, how it's going like 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:57.919 a like a steam house. You come off stage, you 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:00.720 shake hounds, people, signs, some stuff, get in the valan 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:04.320 drive and you can still when you get to the hotel, 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:06.959 it's a strange room. You know, you check into a 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:12.639 different world. Um you can be awake till three in 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:15.439 the morning. You know, it's just the way it is. 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:20.160 I listened to audiobooks a lot. Uh. You can't take 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:23.280 anything to help your sleep because it's gonna affect your vocals. 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:27.040 You know, it really gets in the way of performance. 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:30.920 So you really can't um use anything to to knock 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:35.159 you out. But audiobooks work, you know, they really do you. 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:39.520 The moment you're in the book, you're asleep. Okay, since 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:42.800 you're a connoisseury, give me two good audio books that 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:48.120 you can recommend. Um. Well, I was listening to George Simono. 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:54.600 Um uh, the Magrade books, the French Detective they're very, 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:58.119 very good and they're a different worlder in France. And 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:03.959 the John Nesba Harry Hole Detective books that incredibly well written. 0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:07.840 And uh, you know Harry Hole, I mean you just 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:12.320 kind of go with it's strategic, but it's very agergic. 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:16.000 But you know, the French Revolution not getting you get 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:21.240 into that young Stalin. You know these you know, it's 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:23.640 anything that's gonna take your mind away from where you are. 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:26.719 The further away from where you are, it's gonna it's 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:29.240 gonna open that door. And you're gonna crash. You know, 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:32.680 it's great. Okay, let's be very specific, gig games to 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:36.080 the leven. What time do you get the hotel on 0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:38.639 the road. Well, it could be if we're staying in 0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:42.000 the neighborhood within an hour, but if if you if 0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:44.879 you have six hundred miles to go. He generally just 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:47.320 pounded the van and drive for three hours, like I said, 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:50.320 crashing in a hotel on the way, a holiday inn, 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:52.840 and get up the next stage and finish the drive. 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:54.960 But it's good, you know. I mean, what else you 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:58.159 gonna do? You're gonna go hang out? I mean, you know, 0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:00.440 it's not you don't want to party do it? And 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:03.080 all that kind of stuff. They haven't been really younger. 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:06.280 It doesn't work. I mean, I don't know how the 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:08.280 hell we got through some of that stuff when we 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:11.720 were kids, because nobody got any sleep and it was 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:16.199 just impossible. But it was romantic and we all loved it, 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:19.520 you know. But I think as you get older, the 0:21:19.640 --> 0:21:22.840 work is absolutely the first thing on the menu. The 0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:25.640 good time thing comes to maybe third. You know, it's 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:28.520 you know, it's it's it's enough of a good time 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:32.359 to rip out it with a great show. Okay, but 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:36.679 do you end up getting enough sleep? Now? Never? But 0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:39.199 you're running on empty. You know. The one thing, the 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:41.000 two things on the road that you need more than 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:44.920 anything is sleep and coffee, and the two opposite ends 0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:48.040 of of what it takes to get through. But we 0:21:48.240 --> 0:21:52.280 change during coffee, you know, we um coffee is just 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:56.080 the thing. We just thought coffee up and you'd be surprised, 0:21:56.640 --> 0:21:58.800 you know, you could be. You know, sometimes to make 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:00.760 it work, you do four if I gigs in a row, 0:22:01.480 --> 0:22:04.040 and on the fifth gig, it's like, Holy Christ, you know, 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:06.919 how are you gonna pull this off? You know? And 0:22:07.000 --> 0:22:10.199 your voice is scratching, and you walk out there and 0:22:10.280 --> 0:22:14.600 within ten seconds everything's in focus. You have all the 0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:17.280 energy in the world. The audience give you all this 0:22:17.359 --> 0:22:19.720 stuff and you immediately give it back to the audience 0:22:19.720 --> 0:22:21.840 and aware you go and it could be the best 0:22:21.840 --> 0:22:24.800 show you're gonna play off the five. You know, it's 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:27.320 always that thing you walk out from the moment you 0:22:27.440 --> 0:22:31.920 leave the wings to walking towards the microphone too, holding 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:35.800 the microphone, plugging in the guitar. That something is transformative 0:22:35.840 --> 0:22:39.200 in those twenty paces and you just you're in flight, 0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:48.760 you know, it's it's why you can. Let's say you 0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:51.719 do a run, a date and you fly home. How 0:22:51.840 --> 0:22:54.240 long does it take you to calm down from those dates? 0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:59.919 That's that's a good one. Um, yeah, that's a rough one. 0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:02.800 Know I was younger, it was almost impossible. Yeah, you 0:23:02.880 --> 0:23:05.159 come back from a baby's too, and I'd just rattle, 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:08.239 you know, I'd be looking for things to do, and 0:23:08.280 --> 0:23:10.480 at night it would be just terrible. And you kind 0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:13.200 of sitting and watch TV. These days on the way 0:23:13.280 --> 0:23:16.399 back from the airport. Uh, me and my girl probably 0:23:16.400 --> 0:23:20.679 go and get a lot of Indian food and you know, 0:23:20.840 --> 0:23:23.600 eat a gigantic amount of food and have a beer maybe, 0:23:23.960 --> 0:23:26.680 and that seems to calm things down. I mean at 0:23:26.720 --> 0:23:31.439 some point, you know, you have to. You learn, really, 0:23:31.480 --> 0:23:36.960 you learn how to step back, you know. Okay, you 0:23:37.000 --> 0:23:40.160 live in Santa Monica, I do. Yeah, So where's good 0:23:40.200 --> 0:23:43.560 Indian food that you get? Uh there's one on Pico 0:23:44.359 --> 0:23:48.040 There's I think India's other. It's like really just a 0:23:48.119 --> 0:23:52.639 small hideaway in a strip mall. But the great people, 0:23:52.840 --> 0:23:56.760 the seeks, the chef is were like a beautiful, bright 0:23:56.840 --> 0:23:59.359 yellow turban and stuff and that the nice people I know. 0:24:00.320 --> 0:24:03.080 But you know, you could. You can really fast good 0:24:03.080 --> 0:24:06.240 stuff and in the in the Sana Monica area, that's 0:24:06.280 --> 0:24:10.159 a very good Indian restaurants. Okay, do you own your 0:24:10.200 --> 0:24:14.960 own home Combomidium Red? Yeah? How long? How long did 0:24:14.960 --> 0:24:19.480 you buy? By? About twenty years ago? Good investment? Yeah, 0:24:19.520 --> 0:24:21.879 I know, I know, I was. I was living in 0:24:21.920 --> 0:24:27.359 New York City, which is probably home, but I've been 0:24:27.400 --> 0:24:30.400 there quite a long time, living on Madison Avenue. And 0:24:30.760 --> 0:24:34.880 I had a record coming out. My manager was living 0:24:34.920 --> 0:24:36.159 in l A. And I thought, well, I'm going and 0:24:36.280 --> 0:24:40.719 spend a year in l A. And I went on 0:24:40.760 --> 0:24:43.520 tour and for some strange reasons made a lot of money, 0:24:44.320 --> 0:24:45.720 and I was like, what am I gonna do with 0:24:45.760 --> 0:24:49.160 all this money? You know, and being someone that's seen 0:24:49.880 --> 0:24:52.960 the bank account go down to you know, in the red, 0:24:54.000 --> 0:24:56.320 I had enough sense to buy something. So I bought 0:24:56.359 --> 0:25:01.879 this really beautiful condo for the going right, which was 0:25:01.960 --> 0:25:06.360 pretty affordable, and you know, yeah, I own it now. 0:25:06.400 --> 0:25:10.280 One element of the movie is this girlfriend you have 0:25:11.000 --> 0:25:14.040 and she says that you've known each other the better 0:25:14.040 --> 0:25:17.640 part of twenty years, but you just started to live together. 0:25:17.840 --> 0:25:23.119 What's the back story there? Well, we met um um 0:25:23.320 --> 0:25:26.880 walking through Central Park, she was on a soap opera 0:25:27.400 --> 0:25:31.520 called The City Janie Allen, and that she was walking 0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:36.480 west and I was walking east, and she asked me 0:25:36.520 --> 0:25:39.120 how to get out of the park because Central Park 0:25:39.160 --> 0:25:41.440 in the middle of it. It's like an obstunalely illusion. 0:25:41.880 --> 0:25:43.560 It sort of makes you think you're going in one day, 0:25:43.600 --> 0:25:46.560 actual well you're not. It's very cleverly laid out. And 0:25:47.560 --> 0:25:49.760 you know, we were on and off again for years 0:25:49.760 --> 0:25:53.679 and years and years, and when I moved to Santa Monica, 0:25:53.760 --> 0:25:58.399 I was I was on the bike path going south. No, 0:25:58.560 --> 0:26:00.359 she was going to south and I was going north, 0:26:01.040 --> 0:26:03.600 and we sort of almost bumped into each other. So 0:26:03.640 --> 0:26:06.080 it's kind of like it's like one of those you know, 0:26:06.560 --> 0:26:09.720 it's a Tom Hanks movie, all you know, rock and roll. 0:26:10.080 --> 0:26:14.359 But she liked the idea that you that you said 0:26:14.440 --> 0:26:17.920 she was well endowed. She's just a very skinny do 0:26:22.359 --> 0:26:26.439 better being better. But okay, I have to ask because 0:26:26.440 --> 0:26:28.679 the movie was shot during the pandemic, and there are 0:26:28.680 --> 0:26:31.080 a couple of moments where she's expressing tension in the 0:26:31.119 --> 0:26:34.959 relationship and frustration that you've internalized because you can't go 0:26:35.000 --> 0:26:37.639 on the road. Now that you're back on the road, 0:26:38.160 --> 0:26:41.639 how you getting along well with trying? I think with 0:26:41.760 --> 0:26:45.320 every every relationship, it never stops. You know, you're trying 0:26:45.359 --> 0:26:48.840 all the time. Uh, there's part of me, to be 0:26:48.920 --> 0:26:52.080 really honest, there's a solitary kind of first, which is 0:26:52.119 --> 0:26:54.840 probably why I lived in New York City for so 0:26:54.920 --> 0:26:58.200 long and loved it. Is that you can just come 0:26:58.280 --> 0:27:02.680 and go and I'm always thinking about something of reading 0:27:02.720 --> 0:27:07.320 a book. You know, I can be further distant. So 0:27:07.480 --> 0:27:09.840 we always have to work on me being distant. But 0:27:11.080 --> 0:27:16.680 we're still together, you know. Okay, So you're a creative person. 0:27:16.960 --> 0:27:19.400 You know. It's what people don't realize. It's the very 0:27:19.440 --> 0:27:23.880 outgoing extroverts who are the businesspeople, and the introverts are 0:27:23.920 --> 0:27:27.160 the artists. And it's a very different mentality even though 0:27:27.160 --> 0:27:33.480 they intersect. So but in music one has to network 0:27:34.240 --> 0:27:38.160 and work it. So how do you get those two 0:27:38.160 --> 0:27:41.520 sides your personality to work. One wants to be at home, internalized, 0:27:41.560 --> 0:27:43.680 being creative. The other one has to go out, get 0:27:43.720 --> 0:27:46.560 a job, get a band. Ether. Yeah. Yeah, but it's 0:27:46.600 --> 0:27:48.880 like I said before, but it's like you don't write 0:27:49.000 --> 0:27:54.000 music to keep it to yourself. Um. Alison Krauss was 0:27:54.040 --> 0:27:57.520 told me we were both shy people. I was very 0:27:57.600 --> 0:28:00.960 shy as a kid, cripplingly shy, and I was a 0:28:01.000 --> 0:28:03.600 base player all basically as a kind of like that. 0:28:04.080 --> 0:28:06.600 But Allison Cross says she had to overcome a shyness 0:28:07.080 --> 0:28:10.240 to do what she loved the most. And I think 0:28:10.600 --> 0:28:14.879 that person that's kind of introverted or introspective is the 0:28:14.920 --> 0:28:20.720 word that writes that stuff, that performs those songs. Um, 0:28:20.800 --> 0:28:23.560 you can't just keep it yourself at some point, you have. 0:28:23.960 --> 0:28:27.880 The whole point of music, of art is to share something. 0:28:29.200 --> 0:28:32.080 It's and you know, when I was in the Babies, 0:28:32.240 --> 0:28:34.639 I mean I didn't want to be sense of stage. 0:28:34.760 --> 0:28:36.720 I didn't want to be the singer. I was the 0:28:36.760 --> 0:28:39.680 only guy that could do it. So I put it 0:28:39.720 --> 0:28:43.120 all to once side said come on then now or never, 0:28:43.400 --> 0:28:47.240 you know, and I stepped into that persona and then 0:28:47.240 --> 0:28:50.120 it became easier and easier. And it's like I said 0:28:50.160 --> 0:28:52.080 about the meet and Greed. I can walk into a 0:28:52.160 --> 0:28:55.400 room full of people and I think, honestly put them 0:28:55.400 --> 0:28:58.360 at their ease almost immediately. And I think it's a 0:28:58.400 --> 0:29:01.520 sincere thing to it. It's not like something you learn. 0:29:02.040 --> 0:29:04.640 It's I think I'm naturally friendly and I and I 0:29:04.680 --> 0:29:06.560 respect people, and I want them to have a great 0:29:06.560 --> 0:29:08.360 time when they come and see me play. If I 0:29:08.360 --> 0:29:11.240 can spend fifteen minutes to our nestility and it turns 0:29:11.320 --> 0:29:14.600 the world around. I mean, what a joke, you know, 0:29:14.640 --> 0:29:17.120 as answer the bird and said, you know what a jump? 0:29:17.520 --> 0:29:20.360 I make people happy. And some of the songs are 0:29:20.360 --> 0:29:23.520 desperate and they're dark, and they're not something you want 0:29:23.520 --> 0:29:26.360 to listen to if you want to. You know, part 0:29:26.360 --> 0:29:30.760 of your brands up as people relate, you know. I 0:29:30.800 --> 0:29:32.440 think we're all going through the same things as we 0:29:32.520 --> 0:29:35.640 get older, and I think there's a conversation going on 0:29:35.760 --> 0:29:38.960 between the audience and the artist, and it's it's a 0:29:38.960 --> 0:29:42.400 worthwhile conversation. Okay, let's talk a little bit more about 0:29:42.400 --> 0:29:46.800 your personality. Hypothetically, I call you John, We're going to 0:29:46.840 --> 0:29:49.520 a party. There's gonna be fifty people there, come along. 0:29:49.920 --> 0:29:52.360 Are you going to say? Give me the address? You're 0:29:52.360 --> 0:29:56.000 gonna say? I don't really, I just know I wouldn't go. 0:29:56.720 --> 0:30:00.720 I really wouldn't. Michelle Peiffer said once that she when 0:30:00.760 --> 0:30:04.760 she got invited to parties, she'd wind up in the 0:30:04.800 --> 0:30:07.760 garden playing with the dog, you know, And I thought 0:30:07.760 --> 0:30:10.400 that was very endearing. But I'm like that. I mean, 0:30:10.600 --> 0:30:13.320 I like people, but I don't have to go out 0:30:13.400 --> 0:30:15.840 and hang around in Boston meet people and sort of 0:30:16.680 --> 0:30:20.240 you know, I I really value the time by myself. 0:30:20.520 --> 0:30:23.640 I read a lot, and I pin and I write 0:30:23.680 --> 0:30:27.160 a lot, and I'd like to keep the two worlds 0:30:27.200 --> 0:30:28.920 kind of separate. I mean, once you're on the road 0:30:29.240 --> 0:30:32.840 with the band, you know, it's Camaraderie's is a lot 0:30:32.840 --> 0:30:36.040 of fun, and then there's the show and all the 0:30:36.080 --> 0:30:39.240 people you meet. It's a very positive thing. But I 0:30:39.320 --> 0:30:43.880 need to go back into my roots to recharge. I 0:30:43.920 --> 0:30:47.560 can't stay in the spotlight too long. So let's say 0:30:47.600 --> 0:30:51.000 you're in your house and you're in a room and 0:30:51.080 --> 0:30:55.040 you're painting or something and your girlfriend interrupts you. Are 0:30:55.080 --> 0:30:56.880 you cool with that? Or you're saying no, no, I'm 0:30:56.920 --> 0:30:59.840 in my zone. You got no no, no, no, I'm not. 0:31:00.920 --> 0:31:03.280 But it's it's I will be looking for something to do. 0:31:03.400 --> 0:31:06.440 That's that's kind of I've just recently started to write stories, 0:31:06.520 --> 0:31:09.960 like short stories, and I've kind of got a knack 0:31:10.040 --> 0:31:12.600 for it. I just ran off something that was like 0:31:13.120 --> 0:31:16.720 just on a computer, just tapping out the words, and 0:31:17.200 --> 0:31:23.480 these things are not like, um, it isn't like I'm 0:31:23.480 --> 0:31:25.520 a boy genius. It's just what I do in my 0:31:25.600 --> 0:31:30.600 often time. Some people watch TV. I don't. I can't 0:31:30.640 --> 0:31:34.360 watch TV. I can watch a movie, but I can't 0:31:34.360 --> 0:31:37.960 watch I just I'm not good at taking time off 0:31:38.120 --> 0:31:41.680 listen doing something. So you talked about wanting to share 0:31:41.720 --> 0:31:44.160 your art. Now that you're writing these short stories, are 0:31:44.160 --> 0:31:46.880 you looking to share those? Well? I would like to 0:31:46.880 --> 0:31:51.600 get better. I dashed up this five piece UM show 0:31:51.720 --> 0:31:55.440 story about a guy looking for his brother and he 0:31:55.560 --> 0:31:58.920 goes on a bender and so drinks hisself into the floor, 0:31:59.200 --> 0:32:02.000 gets on the d yet ferry to France, gist and 0:32:02.160 --> 0:32:07.880 knife fight with two apaches. The calling in France, uh 0:32:08.080 --> 0:32:11.440 the street because he gets killed. Um And it's a 0:32:11.480 --> 0:32:14.360 five part story, you know. I read reread it again 0:32:14.440 --> 0:32:18.040 two weeks ago, and it's all sorts of editing. And 0:32:18.080 --> 0:32:21.520 at first I thought I've stumbled across some rare talent, 0:32:21.640 --> 0:32:25.120 you know, But I have nothing but respect for writers. 0:32:25.160 --> 0:32:27.680 That's a whole different thing. That's the command I mean 0:32:28.480 --> 0:32:32.400 writing songs is you have the chords behind it too, 0:32:33.000 --> 0:32:35.280 to color the words. If you if you say a 0:32:35.280 --> 0:32:38.800 certain word like trend and you play in a major 0:32:39.600 --> 0:32:42.680 it's a beat. It's a train, you know, train tran 0:32:43.200 --> 0:32:46.520 If you play an air minor, the train could be 0:32:46.520 --> 0:32:50.160 going to hell, you know, it's like that. That's the different. 0:32:50.520 --> 0:32:52.240 There's a lot of things in play. But just to 0:32:52.360 --> 0:32:55.360 write this is why I'll never do a memoir. I 0:32:55.400 --> 0:32:59.840 could never do it. I could never get that right. Okay, 0:33:00.560 --> 0:33:02.240 let's just go back for a second to being on 0:33:02.280 --> 0:33:06.240 the road. Um, did you ever have a time being 0:33:06.280 --> 0:33:09.640 on the road using drugs and alcohol to calm down 0:33:09.840 --> 0:33:15.600 from the geleration of the show? Yeah? And did it 0:33:15.720 --> 0:33:19.040 ever get into a territory that you look back now 0:33:19.080 --> 0:33:20.920 and say, what the hell was I doing? Or was 0:33:20.960 --> 0:33:23.520 it always under control? No? I think on the road 0:33:24.080 --> 0:33:26.000 if you start doing that kind of stuff. I mean 0:33:26.000 --> 0:33:28.640 we're talking about cocaineously, but I mean if you in 0:33:28.680 --> 0:33:30.680 the old days, it would be a couple of lines 0:33:30.720 --> 0:33:32.880 of glow and people would do it. They would have 0:33:32.960 --> 0:33:35.000 a shot of brandy or whatever, go to a club, 0:33:35.040 --> 0:33:38.480 get up and sing with the band. Anything at all 0:33:38.520 --> 0:33:41.120 could happen after that, and you would work up with 0:33:41.160 --> 0:33:44.920 a hangover after travels for the next gig. And if 0:33:44.920 --> 0:33:47.040 the band is any good and you have any sense that, oh, 0:33:47.480 --> 0:33:49.600 the other three or four guys are gonna grab you 0:33:49.640 --> 0:33:51.680 by the back of the color and stay knock it off. 0:33:52.280 --> 0:33:54.360 This is how the lives too. You know. If you 0:33:54.440 --> 0:33:57.160 start self destruct, usually get bounced out of the band. 0:33:58.240 --> 0:34:00.440 It happens in a lot people drink themselves to death, 0:34:00.960 --> 0:34:04.040 and it's the time off that's the problem. Because you 0:34:04.120 --> 0:34:10.399 looked at the film Disvoid with something that's electrifying, you know. Well, 0:34:10.400 --> 0:34:15.080 that is one serious moment in the movie where uh, 0:34:15.120 --> 0:34:19.840 there's an altercation with the guitarist who's ultimately fired. So 0:34:20.719 --> 0:34:24.279 give us a little bit more on that. Well, his 0:34:24.360 --> 0:34:32.239 personality was flamboyant to say the least, and uh, I'm 0:34:32.239 --> 0:34:35.239 sort of working class and he was very much up 0:34:35.239 --> 0:34:37.840 a middle class and had a whole different take on 0:34:37.920 --> 0:34:42.200 what he was there for. And he barely spoke to me. 0:34:43.680 --> 0:34:46.600 I mean, I tried to write songs of him, you know, 0:34:46.800 --> 0:34:50.120 tried to buy maturing, you know, but he had made 0:34:50.120 --> 0:34:53.680 his mind up that I was the competition of something 0:34:53.719 --> 0:34:56.319 and I, just like I said before, I didn't even 0:34:56.320 --> 0:34:58.560 want to be in the center of the stage. But 0:34:58.600 --> 0:35:00.239 it all came to a head on one of the 0:35:00.280 --> 0:35:03.880 gigs when he smashed the guitar and screamed funk off 0:35:04.080 --> 0:35:06.520 at the audience, and we just like looked at each other, 0:35:06.680 --> 0:35:09.560 like we have no idea, at what point? How far 0:35:09.920 --> 0:35:13.560 it's been so bad? For so long? I actually remember 0:35:14.480 --> 0:35:17.279 having a glass of grand Mania at the end of 0:35:17.320 --> 0:35:21.560 this table and smoking a cigarette. I mean, I remember thinking, 0:35:21.880 --> 0:35:23.960 just another day, you know, it's just what goes on. 0:35:25.000 --> 0:35:27.759 But it starts to get wilder and wilder, and by 0:35:27.760 --> 0:35:30.279 the time we got on the bus, he was in 0:35:30.400 --> 0:35:35.440 full meltdown. And in the movie it, you know, we 0:35:35.520 --> 0:35:39.720 talked about finding stuff, but there was so much money 0:35:39.800 --> 0:35:44.520 riding on the band and investment, not only from the 0:35:44.520 --> 0:35:47.560 business spent, but from all of us, the hardship we've 0:35:47.560 --> 0:35:51.000 been through to get that far. And then one guy 0:35:51.080 --> 0:35:57.160 is trying to actually like, you know, really seriously injury 0:35:57.239 --> 0:35:59.440 with an instrument. You know, it's like kind of like, wow, 0:36:00.080 --> 0:36:02.520 know what is that? I mean, what is this bound 0:36:02.640 --> 0:36:05.279 worth to me? You know, I don't want to go 0:36:05.320 --> 0:36:08.239 through life with no eyesight. I don't want to you know, 0:36:09.520 --> 0:36:11.440 maybe bleed to death on the floor because he's going 0:36:11.520 --> 0:36:13.520 to broken ball. But it's the point where you look 0:36:13.520 --> 0:36:16.520 at it, you like, Jesus Christ, ma'am, how do we 0:36:16.560 --> 0:36:19.080 get to this. We're all trying to get to the 0:36:19.120 --> 0:36:22.480 next level, and you're trying to kill me. I mean, 0:36:22.480 --> 0:36:24.200 I don't know what to say to that, you know, 0:36:24.200 --> 0:36:26.759 because I mean it's not something I enjoyed talking about. 0:36:26.840 --> 0:36:28.839 It's still a mystery to me that I put up 0:36:28.840 --> 0:36:32.400 with it for so long. But it did explode. And 0:36:32.480 --> 0:36:35.840 when you fired him, what did he say? Oh, he 0:36:36.000 --> 0:36:38.719 thinks that he was like the record company fighting and 0:36:39.480 --> 0:36:41.920 but I mean that's like saying I didn't try and 0:36:41.960 --> 0:36:44.480 funk you up at the bottom. It's the record company. 0:36:44.520 --> 0:36:48.319 Don't like which that unreality thing comes into it, where 0:36:48.360 --> 0:36:50.279 you think you're really dealing with somebody that's got a 0:36:50.320 --> 0:36:54.759 different take on absolutely everything. You know, he was incensed, 0:36:55.320 --> 0:36:59.279 but that should show you where he was. I mean, 0:36:59.800 --> 0:37:02.479 at what point do you really try and mess someone 0:37:02.560 --> 0:37:08.279 up with the broken body? Have you ever encountered him since? No, 0:37:09.440 --> 0:37:11.920 he's he goes off on the internet and he's like, 0:37:12.000 --> 0:37:16.799 you know, I'm a star, You're not all this kind 0:37:16.800 --> 0:37:18.920 of crap, And I just know at some point you 0:37:19.040 --> 0:37:22.400 just go, I did the best for you. I really 0:37:22.440 --> 0:37:24.719 did know pret up with that for years and years, 0:37:24.760 --> 0:37:26.920 and that's your answer to me. So what do I 0:37:27.000 --> 0:37:34.399 do Okay, you grow up in northwest England. What's that like? Oh, 0:37:34.440 --> 0:37:39.000 it's beautiful. Lancaster is a castle and our school that 0:37:39.120 --> 0:37:41.160 was built that I went to to be it and 0:37:41.280 --> 0:37:45.480 our school as like glass roofs for life class and 0:37:45.520 --> 0:37:49.600 print rooms. It's not like that anymore. It's some sort 0:37:49.600 --> 0:37:53.560 of building for different things tourist board. It's a very 0:37:53.640 --> 0:37:59.600 very antiquated old city with the cobbled streets and houses 0:37:59.640 --> 0:38:03.360 from the thirteenth century at the priory church next to 0:38:03.440 --> 0:38:07.279 the castle, the foundations for a thousand years old and 0:38:07.320 --> 0:38:10.880 it's laid out really beautifully. It's like a really incredibly strange, 0:38:11.520 --> 0:38:15.880 very very British thing started about fields and we had 0:38:15.920 --> 0:38:20.239 a university come about thirty five years ago and it's 0:38:20.440 --> 0:38:22.520 it's taken over the town, so it's it's kind of 0:38:22.600 --> 0:38:26.239 changed quite a long but Lancaster really is something. I 0:38:26.320 --> 0:38:29.040 go back there as much as I can. And how 0:38:29.040 --> 0:38:32.600 did your family end up there? Oh? They were born there. 0:38:33.160 --> 0:38:34.920 I mean, you know, in England could go back five 0:38:35.000 --> 0:38:38.800 hundred years. Do you know how many generations your family 0:38:38.920 --> 0:38:47.200 was there? Um? Well, my my father's mother h her 0:38:47.239 --> 0:38:53.680 family Um. In the Doomsday book, that's King John's Uh, 0:38:54.520 --> 0:38:57.440 account of who owns what where the farm belongs to it, 0:38:57.960 --> 0:39:02.239 you know, Um, they we call AGM so they go 0:39:02.320 --> 0:39:08.200 back that they're like York, and that my mom is Lancashire, 0:39:08.920 --> 0:39:14.600 and there's Irish blood in me somewhere, um from my 0:39:14.640 --> 0:39:19.400 grandmother's mother. And there's some Maltese but apparently from a 0:39:19.480 --> 0:39:24.080 generation or two before that. But it's pretty much Church 0:39:24.080 --> 0:39:28.040 of England straight on, you know. I mean everybody comes 0:39:28.040 --> 0:39:31.800 from somewhere in Britain. It's like you know, it's it's Celtic, 0:39:32.000 --> 0:39:36.840 or it's Norman, or it's you know, angloss action. And 0:39:36.960 --> 0:39:39.000 what did your parents do for a living? Well, my 0:39:39.040 --> 0:39:42.799 mom was a nurse that the piano could tap pants, 0:39:42.840 --> 0:39:45.279 all that kind of thing. She was great, she still is, 0:39:45.400 --> 0:39:50.000 she's ninety seven. My dad he was a mechanic, but 0:39:50.080 --> 0:39:53.480 there's also a chess player and extremely well right. He 0:39:53.560 --> 0:39:56.400 was supposed to be the most well read man in Lancaster. 0:39:58.400 --> 0:40:01.840 Also didact know because from the war camp you couldn't 0:40:01.840 --> 0:40:04.600 go to university. But I think if the war hadn't happened, 0:40:04.600 --> 0:40:07.799 he would have gone to university. Was he was an 0:40:07.800 --> 0:40:12.759 absolutely incredible of the books and very smart man. And 0:40:12.840 --> 0:40:15.319 how many kids in the family. I have a brother 0:40:15.360 --> 0:40:18.000 called Joe. He was a really, really great guitar player 0:40:18.840 --> 0:40:22.239 who had learned an enormous amount from now he's all, 0:40:22.640 --> 0:40:27.160 he's all, he's four years older than me. Okay, So 0:40:27.360 --> 0:40:29.799 you start going to school. What kind of kid are you? 0:40:29.880 --> 0:40:32.520 Were you like the life of the party had outcast, 0:40:32.680 --> 0:40:36.120 just one rob. I was pretty popular. I really was 0:40:36.160 --> 0:40:39.600 a popular kid. You know that the bullies would always 0:40:39.680 --> 0:40:42.280 come around and give you a really bad time, especially 0:40:42.280 --> 0:40:45.680 when he got about fifteen. You know, I had long hand, 0:40:45.760 --> 0:40:48.520 I dressed differently, and I didn't fit in at school, 0:40:48.760 --> 0:40:51.560 but the girls like me, and I had a lot 0:40:51.600 --> 0:40:53.920 of friends, you know. I would say I was a 0:40:53.960 --> 0:40:55.880 really popular kid. I was looking back and it was 0:40:55.960 --> 0:40:59.040 really wonderful, you know, but there's always those bastards in 0:40:59.080 --> 0:41:02.200 the corner that I want to show you what'swa and 0:41:02.600 --> 0:41:04.680 I took it very hard in the last couple of years. 0:41:05.600 --> 0:41:09.279 It was just rough. Good student, bad student. Did knew 0:41:09.320 --> 0:41:14.640 anything I couldn't. My Matthew is almost nonexistent. I had dyslexia, 0:41:14.800 --> 0:41:18.320 so my bees and bees were backwards, which is ironic 0:41:18.520 --> 0:41:21.520 being a lyricist, you know. But I love to read. 0:41:21.680 --> 0:41:24.239 I love literature and I lived out, so they let 0:41:24.280 --> 0:41:28.319 me just do art classes for my final year to 0:41:28.320 --> 0:41:31.080 build up a portfolio so I could gainst our school, 0:41:31.280 --> 0:41:34.120 which is very kind of it really was because I 0:41:34.160 --> 0:41:36.160 really was the odd man out of school. I was 0:41:36.239 --> 0:41:39.239 kind of the bohemian kid. But it was great and 0:41:39.280 --> 0:41:41.440 like I said, I was kind of popular, so uh 0:41:41.719 --> 0:41:44.480 you know, although there was a couple of moments of 0:41:44.520 --> 0:41:49.480 extreme craziness with a couple of the really big kids, 0:41:49.560 --> 0:41:54.000 I mean I got through it pretty well. Really. Okay, 0:41:54.280 --> 0:41:57.000 so you're in the UK where the Beatles break a 0:41:57.080 --> 0:42:00.200 couple of years earlier. Were you a big fee of 0:42:00.280 --> 0:42:03.799 music before that or was it? So how did you 0:42:03.800 --> 0:42:06.920 get into it? Well? Yeah, you would just see a 0:42:06.960 --> 0:42:12.279 cowboy music, uh you know Marster Robbins trilled fighter bellas, 0:42:13.000 --> 0:42:16.759 uh couldn't fight a bellas and trail songs. That was 0:42:16.800 --> 0:42:18.799 a big album and I'd hear in occasionally on the 0:42:18.880 --> 0:42:21.319 radio or in stores. We didn't have a record play 0:42:21.360 --> 0:42:25.359 we couldn't afford on, but my my cousin Carol at 0:42:25.360 --> 0:42:29.280 a radio gram and some records that she had Brenda 0:42:29.360 --> 0:42:33.320 Lee Everybody Loves Me. But you remember hearing that was 0:42:33.360 --> 0:42:36.360 about six and falling in love with Brenda Lee. But 0:42:36.400 --> 0:42:41.840 it was a little country in Americana, but specifically Western songs. 0:42:42.440 --> 0:42:46.400 I mean, Ghost Riders in the sky Man, you know, 0:42:46.400 --> 0:42:49.640 it's that the barrettone guitar and cowboys. You know, he 0:42:49.800 --> 0:42:52.080 just got through being a kid listening to you know, 0:42:52.160 --> 0:42:54.880 David Crockett and stuff, and then it became the sexy 0:42:54.920 --> 0:42:58.480 and things. You start to inch forward into being an 0:42:58.480 --> 0:43:01.399 older kid, and you'd see the symbol some and there 0:43:01.480 --> 0:43:04.920 was nothing more important than America when you're like five, 0:43:04.960 --> 0:43:08.920 and it's, like I said, Davy Crockett, Cowboys and Indians 0:43:08.960 --> 0:43:12.000 and then this music that could hear every once in 0:43:12.000 --> 0:43:16.120 a while, and that led straight into the Beatles, and 0:43:16.200 --> 0:43:18.880 from that point on there was absolutely no question about 0:43:19.239 --> 0:43:23.000 what I would do. Really, So how did you first 0:43:23.040 --> 0:43:26.239 hear the Beatles? Into what degree were you a fan 0:43:26.320 --> 0:43:32.200 of the Beatles? Well, I remember, um, I remember, I 0:43:32.320 --> 0:43:35.120 must have been about eight, but I remember watching this 0:43:35.280 --> 0:43:38.960 TV show and they came on and they played Love 0:43:39.040 --> 0:43:42.360 Me Do, And then the next week I think it 0:43:42.440 --> 0:43:44.440 came back and did Please Please Me? But I saw 0:43:44.480 --> 0:43:48.239 it on Granada Television. We lived in a tiny cottage 0:43:48.440 --> 0:43:51.400 that first into the countryside. If you can imagine like 0:43:51.520 --> 0:43:54.840 some little kid watching the Beatles in this cottage with 0:43:54.920 --> 0:43:57.640 the trees outside in the fields. I mean, he said, 0:43:57.640 --> 0:44:01.920 it's it's a it's a it's a strange picture. But 0:44:02.000 --> 0:44:07.239 it was like the Northwest. They came from Liverpool, which 0:44:07.280 --> 0:44:10.359 is only set in miles of Lancaster, and they were 0:44:10.360 --> 0:44:12.200 the most different thing you've ever seen in the world. 0:44:12.200 --> 0:44:15.000 But the sound of it itself, the sound was incredible 0:44:15.320 --> 0:44:17.120 and the songs were you know, as we all know, 0:44:18.200 --> 0:44:21.359 and it took us along with it. Uh. The next 0:44:21.400 --> 0:44:26.759 seven years were like um, I mean, it was like 0:44:26.840 --> 0:44:30.840 being given something. Every album that came out you couldn't 0:44:30.880 --> 0:44:34.279 wait to hear it, and everything you heard made your 0:44:34.280 --> 0:44:37.520 hairstand the band, I mean it was the most incredible thing. 0:44:38.560 --> 0:44:42.279 And it was working class, which was really something you'd 0:44:42.320 --> 0:44:46.640 never really seen that before. Hardcore, working class, black and 0:44:46.680 --> 0:44:50.120 white Liverpool Lean and the best thing you're going to 0:44:50.239 --> 0:44:53.680 hear for the next fifty years. You know, you know, 0:44:53.719 --> 0:44:56.680 I only have an American perspective. The Beatles came, and 0:44:56.719 --> 0:45:00.360 then there was so called British invasion, which was reething, 0:45:00.760 --> 0:45:03.720 you know, hard edged on one level, like the Stones, 0:45:04.360 --> 0:45:07.000 and then people who really weren't rockers like Freddie and 0:45:07.040 --> 0:45:10.120 the Dreamers. On the other hand, so how do you 0:45:10.200 --> 0:45:16.279 do you do? So? Were you a fan of all 0:45:16.360 --> 0:45:19.400 those acts or was it more like, you know, no, 0:45:19.840 --> 0:45:21.600 I just remember the other day, you know, people asking 0:45:21.640 --> 0:45:24.200 me these questions. But I and I you go, like, yeah, 0:45:24.239 --> 0:45:27.000 the Beatles, yeah, you know, you know, go st yeah, 0:45:27.120 --> 0:45:31.360 you know. But I remember having a Pretty Things EP 0:45:32.560 --> 0:45:38.600 with Don't Bring Me Down, Big Boss Man. Uh right, 0:45:38.760 --> 0:45:41.040 last week City, I think it was on there. But 0:45:41.120 --> 0:45:44.880 I remember having that EP. And I was only eight, 0:45:45.520 --> 0:45:47.640 and I haven't got a record player, and my mom 0:45:47.640 --> 0:45:51.520 would send me down to my grandmothers on a Friday 0:45:51.640 --> 0:45:55.120 to visit, you know, and um, I'd say the CP 0:45:55.320 --> 0:45:58.919 and I'm playing the Pretty Things at eight, So I 0:45:58.960 --> 0:46:06.200 was probably heading towards the Yardbirds and Free and the 0:46:06.280 --> 0:46:10.280 Jeff Bett Group and and all the and Jimmy Andrews, 0:46:10.320 --> 0:46:12.960 you know, I mean Cheese and but all those acts, 0:46:13.000 --> 0:46:15.640 you know, were they were more hardcore, but more importantly, 0:46:15.960 --> 0:46:19.680 we were all inspired by African American music, blues and soul. 0:46:20.520 --> 0:46:23.480 And the really fascinating part about the whole thing is 0:46:24.200 --> 0:46:26.640 as I was singing as a kid, I was singing 0:46:26.640 --> 0:46:29.600 in a blue style. I didn't learn that from anybody. 0:46:29.840 --> 0:46:33.160 I didn't know about Muddy Water still as about fifteen. 0:46:34.400 --> 0:46:36.479 You know, I knew about Hunk Williams, but that isn't 0:46:36.480 --> 0:46:39.120 blue singing. But I sang in this and I phrased 0:46:39.120 --> 0:46:41.120 in exactly the same way as I do now. I 0:46:41.120 --> 0:46:44.239 didn't learn how to sing. I've always sounded like this, 0:46:44.640 --> 0:46:46.560 and it's a mystery to me to know where that 0:46:46.600 --> 0:46:49.600 comes from. But maybe it's just something you're born with. 0:46:49.719 --> 0:46:53.200 And maybe I did hear something that was like just 0:46:53.560 --> 0:47:03.520 it all came from black music. I don't know. Okay, 0:47:03.760 --> 0:47:07.040 at what point did you learn how to play an instrument? 0:47:07.600 --> 0:47:09.319 And then how did you end up on the base? 0:47:11.160 --> 0:47:15.400 My brother had a telecaster, the first telecaster in the Northwest, really, 0:47:16.239 --> 0:47:20.640 he got it on on payments, and I was playing gigs. 0:47:20.680 --> 0:47:23.799 It was a really good guitar player, still is, and 0:47:23.880 --> 0:47:27.719 I think I went to the base because, um, he 0:47:27.840 --> 0:47:31.200 was the lead guitar player. I probably boten prayer that 0:47:31.239 --> 0:47:33.960 would start about together, because when you sing with your brother, 0:47:34.040 --> 0:47:36.680 you really do sing like you harmony and stuff. There's 0:47:36.719 --> 0:47:39.759 a magical thing between brothers. But I started to fall 0:47:39.760 --> 0:47:42.479 a lit with the best when I you knows Andy 0:47:42.560 --> 0:47:52.359 Frazer and this Jack Bruce and there's Renis Garrison. There's 0:47:52.400 --> 0:47:55.239 just fine. The bass is like there's an instrument. It's 0:47:55.239 --> 0:47:57.680 that the cello. You know, I love the cello. I 0:47:57.760 --> 0:47:59.919 love best notes. I like the way the best move 0:48:00.200 --> 0:48:04.560 behind the chords. I mean on the Beatles first album, 0:48:05.120 --> 0:48:09.440 you hear former Can't Go, How good a dass with another? 0:48:10.320 --> 0:48:14.600 And he was boat, the boat, the boat. It's like 0:48:14.640 --> 0:48:18.120 a passing note, you know, I was. I was maybe 0:48:18.200 --> 0:48:21.720 fourteen when I heard that. Blew my mind how anybody 0:48:21.760 --> 0:48:25.400 could be that clever to put a passing on in 0:48:25.440 --> 0:48:28.760 a rock and roll So nobody's ever done that. And 0:48:29.280 --> 0:48:33.879 it was just an elegant instrument, you know, and it 0:48:33.920 --> 0:48:38.120 looked beautiful. dB three is still a thing of enormous 0:48:38.160 --> 0:48:41.319 beauty to me. Or they done electoral along Home. They 0:48:41.320 --> 0:48:45.440 were all beautiful instruments to base instruments. So when did 0:48:45.520 --> 0:48:49.080 you start playing in bands and what did that look like? Well? 0:48:49.160 --> 0:48:52.160 I sang in my brother's band when when he was 0:48:53.520 --> 0:48:56.400 about seventeen and I was thirteen. I'd go around to 0:48:56.440 --> 0:48:59.920 the rehearsals and seeing Walking the Dog, Blue Seal, Mabel, 0:49:01.280 --> 0:49:06.200 those kind of songs. Um And then when I was 0:49:06.239 --> 0:49:08.960 at art school. We needed a band to play the 0:49:09.040 --> 0:49:12.520 Art school dance and I got my brother to get 0:49:12.560 --> 0:49:15.160 his trauma and we just played for like three hours 0:49:15.200 --> 0:49:19.400 blues and shuffles. That was my first time out. But 0:49:19.680 --> 0:49:22.319 from that point on, towards the end of my state 0:49:22.360 --> 0:49:24.160 at art school, I actually put it bound together. It 0:49:24.239 --> 0:49:27.200 was my own and we were out playing dates. So 0:49:28.600 --> 0:49:33.200 you know, I um man, when you get the bug, 0:49:33.400 --> 0:49:36.360 whatever you call it, there's nothing going to stop you. 0:49:36.360 --> 0:49:39.080 You know, I've slept on floors and I've been in 0:49:39.120 --> 0:49:42.600 the back of a truck for like you know that was. 0:49:43.200 --> 0:49:45.120 But you do it and you love it, and none 0:49:45.160 --> 0:49:47.960 of its work. You're in the middle of a romantic thing. 0:49:48.239 --> 0:49:51.319 It's what you want to do. Whether you are pay 0:49:51.400 --> 0:49:53.640 to do it or it's not the matter, but you 0:49:53.719 --> 0:49:57.120 certainly don't want to be anywhere else. It's all the matters, 0:49:58.280 --> 0:50:00.680 you know. So how do you get from Lancaster to 0:50:00.800 --> 0:50:08.040 London by bus? But being okay, keep going. It's two 0:50:08.120 --> 0:50:12.200 hundred two miles. And the first time I joined the band, 0:50:12.480 --> 0:50:14.960 there's a guy called Ali Alco. It was like a 0:50:15.000 --> 0:50:17.920 really genius guitar player from the Northwest. He played reading 0:50:18.000 --> 0:50:21.560 festival at a band called Universe. It was a big deal. 0:50:22.280 --> 0:50:24.759 It wasn't signed, but he was a big deal. And 0:50:24.840 --> 0:50:27.440 he saw me play and asked me for wanted to 0:50:27.440 --> 0:50:31.680 go to London. And I actually got almost arrested about 0:50:32.160 --> 0:50:35.319 six weeks before for a jewel robbery which I did 0:50:35.360 --> 0:50:40.000 not do. But the police came to a sound check 0:50:40.160 --> 0:50:43.520 and the Seahorse bar in more com tapped me on 0:50:43.560 --> 0:50:46.080 the shoulder and then took me and my band down 0:50:46.239 --> 0:50:49.520 the police station and grilled us for like two hours, 0:50:49.560 --> 0:50:53.120 three hours, and they were they thought that I was 0:50:53.160 --> 0:50:58.279 a bad lot. The band was dealing hash. Me and 0:50:58.320 --> 0:51:02.800 this guy, Martin, the roadie was signed. This interrogation room 0:51:02.840 --> 0:51:06.759 and Martin, they leave us addressing all these questions and 0:51:06.880 --> 0:51:09.400 Martin pulls out a lumper hash and starts eating it. 0:51:10.560 --> 0:51:13.480 And I thought, yeah, you know, I thought, well there 0:51:13.560 --> 0:51:16.239 goes my life. You know. I think I'll you know, 0:51:16.560 --> 0:51:18.279 I think I'll just get a job now or maybe 0:51:18.280 --> 0:51:21.880 go to jail whatever. And that accuse me of stealing 0:51:22.560 --> 0:51:26.640 Lonnie Donigan's drum cases when we played with Londie Donegan 0:51:26.719 --> 0:51:30.200 about three months before, and uh, what would I be 0:51:30.280 --> 0:51:35.600 doing with drum cases? Were the drummer was very light fingered, 0:51:35.640 --> 0:51:38.160 so I would think all fingers would point to the drummer, 0:51:38.160 --> 0:51:40.640 but I think he was pointing at me. So this 0:51:40.719 --> 0:51:42.959 window opened for me to go to London with Ali 0:51:43.239 --> 0:51:46.680 on the old car and live in West Hampstea with 0:51:46.719 --> 0:51:49.279 the roadie and Ali in a room that was eight 0:51:49.280 --> 0:51:53.200 by ten and live in London and it was spectacular. 0:51:53.440 --> 0:51:56.120 You know, I had no money. I was signing on 0:51:56.200 --> 0:51:59.839 the door, getting like four pounds a week living off 0:52:00.560 --> 0:52:03.880 gun knows one. But it was fantastic London to the 0:52:03.880 --> 0:52:07.040 early seven He's going to the Marquee Club, seeing these 0:52:07.040 --> 0:52:11.120 bands that were just incredible, Stone the Crows and you know, 0:52:11.200 --> 0:52:14.960 Humble Pie, Steve Mary. I saw Steve Mary had seen 0:52:15.000 --> 0:52:18.040 at the London Palladium, you know, I mean just just 0:52:18.160 --> 0:52:23.000 the whiless stuff. But um, that's how I got to London. Yeah, 0:52:23.239 --> 0:52:27.920 long story. And were you playing in any band before 0:52:27.960 --> 0:52:31.680 you join the Babies? Yeah? That was you know, that 0:52:31.760 --> 0:52:35.719 was with England. It was called who were playing festivals 0:52:35.760 --> 0:52:40.200 and the Marquee Club and eating of living out and uh, 0:52:40.280 --> 0:52:43.800 I went to America to join the band in Cleveland 0:52:43.800 --> 0:52:46.719 that look, we're looking for a bass player. That blew up. 0:52:46.920 --> 0:52:49.360 I came back a little bit a little bit slower. 0:52:49.480 --> 0:52:52.640 How does a band in Cleveland find you in London 0:52:52.680 --> 0:52:56.520 and then you go? Well, the singer, the original singer 0:52:56.560 --> 0:52:59.799 from England, a Scottish guy called Phil Ray Jesse. Ray 0:53:00.480 --> 0:53:04.360 didn't work out with Ali, so he left and I 0:53:04.480 --> 0:53:10.600 stayed with Ali, and he somehow got to Cleveland. I 0:53:10.760 --> 0:53:14.560 was in a band, uh and they needed a bass player. 0:53:15.080 --> 0:53:17.560 And I left all this because we were going nowhere, 0:53:17.800 --> 0:53:22.280 went home and I couldn't get a job. I didn't 0:53:22.280 --> 0:53:24.840 want a job. My dad wasn't pleased to see me 0:53:24.960 --> 0:53:27.240 coming home. He was starting to to get a life, 0:53:27.280 --> 0:53:30.080 you know, and I was just desperate. And this lesson 0:53:30.120 --> 0:53:32.960 came from Cleveland, do you want to come and play bass? 0:53:33.360 --> 0:53:36.800 So I I packed up the old kicked back and 0:53:37.840 --> 0:53:41.080 somehow got a visa and I went to Cleveland for 0:53:41.160 --> 0:53:45.160 like four months and we played all over some of 0:53:45.200 --> 0:53:49.400 the small clubs there and trying to get a record 0:53:49.480 --> 0:53:51.400 deal that fell through. And then I came back to 0:53:51.520 --> 0:53:55.840 London and the baby started. Okay, had you been anywhere 0:53:56.360 --> 0:53:59.239 other than you know, the UK? What was it like 0:53:59.440 --> 0:54:04.400 being Cleveland? Of all? Remember that book um Diary of 0:54:04.480 --> 0:54:07.839 a Rock and Roll Star by Ian Hunson. Of course, yeah, 0:54:08.680 --> 0:54:12.319 fantastic book. On the bus home from London, I read 0:54:12.400 --> 0:54:15.680 that book and it was just about Cleveland, about the 0:54:15.760 --> 0:54:22.080 scene Um, about kid Leo, about MMS the bussard all 0:54:22.360 --> 0:54:25.000 you know. I was like whoa. And the scene that 0:54:25.160 --> 0:54:29.040 was happening in in Cleveland was a mirror of what 0:54:29.239 --> 0:54:31.799 was happening in London. Really, so when it came through 0:54:31.880 --> 0:54:34.560 that could go to Cleveland, it was like, wow, I'll 0:54:34.600 --> 0:54:38.680 take a show. And there was a ballsy move, you know. 0:54:38.800 --> 0:54:40.800 But I wasn't done anything to be in a boundary. 0:54:40.920 --> 0:54:45.120 I just wanted to play. Okay, so that doesn't work out. 0:54:45.320 --> 0:54:49.040 You come back to the UK. Uh. You know it's 0:54:49.080 --> 0:54:52.520 talked about in the movie with Adrian Lilar, but a 0:54:52.600 --> 0:54:56.319 little bit slower. How do you end up in the Babies? Well? 0:54:56.400 --> 0:55:01.120 It was his mutual friend called Golden the Works Shaftbury Avenue, 0:55:01.719 --> 0:55:05.320 a guitar village and he knew Mike Kobe. It was 0:55:05.360 --> 0:55:08.719 the guitar player and Mike had a manage your gold 0:55:08.760 --> 0:55:11.439 agent and they were looking for somebody they could write 0:55:11.480 --> 0:55:16.240 songs and sing and play bass. Would I be interested 0:55:16.280 --> 0:55:19.480 in taking a meeting? And would I you know? So 0:55:19.719 --> 0:55:22.920 I went for point a beer on a Friday night, 0:55:23.000 --> 0:55:26.120 I think at Sir Richard Steele's pub on have a 0:55:26.200 --> 0:55:29.200 stock Hill and we talked about it, and you know, 0:55:29.320 --> 0:55:31.920 it was like it could happen, you know. I mean, 0:55:32.000 --> 0:55:35.719 if you can get a record deal, it's unbelievable. And 0:55:35.960 --> 0:55:37.919 I went home and told my girlfriend. I said, look, 0:55:38.200 --> 0:55:40.480 it's you know, painting the sky. It's just too much. 0:55:41.280 --> 0:55:44.839 But Asian was very tenacious, you know, and he must 0:55:44.880 --> 0:55:50.880 have seen something in me because it took about fifteen months, 0:55:51.000 --> 0:55:54.640 but we eventually got a record deal and I wrote 0:55:54.719 --> 0:56:01.080 songs and I sang them and I became person. You know. 0:56:01.680 --> 0:56:04.480 So in those fifteen months, what were you doing and 0:56:04.600 --> 0:56:07.320 what was the band doing to ultimately lead up to 0:56:07.400 --> 0:56:10.160 this record deal. Well, we had a there was two 0:56:10.320 --> 0:56:14.000 artists from the Royal College that owned a warehouse on 0:56:14.160 --> 0:56:17.840 tool the Street, which is just south the Thames, and 0:56:17.960 --> 0:56:21.200 Adrian knew him. There were eccentric guys that were great, 0:56:21.600 --> 0:56:24.759 but he had this rehearsal space called Base in the 0:56:24.960 --> 0:56:29.719 in the basement of this great, big tea warehouse, and 0:56:29.840 --> 0:56:33.640 we used to go down there and audition people or 0:56:33.840 --> 0:56:36.080 just you know, go to the pub next door and 0:56:36.120 --> 0:56:38.719 have a beer and talk about it even more it 0:56:38.880 --> 0:56:41.759 was all you know, it's like, um, we talked about 0:56:41.800 --> 0:56:43.640 it more than we were it. You know. It was 0:56:43.800 --> 0:56:46.680 like and I went home and wrote songs and then 0:56:46.719 --> 0:56:48.680 I came back in and we'd work them all up. 0:56:49.680 --> 0:56:52.120 We got Tony down the drummer. It was a hot 0:56:52.239 --> 0:56:54.960 drummer in London, and then we had something. We had 0:56:55.000 --> 0:56:58.000 a three piece bound, so we were in the studio 0:56:58.040 --> 0:57:00.840 and cut demos. It was unbelievable, you know, it was 0:57:00.880 --> 0:57:04.360 actually moving forward in a sort of like it was weaving, 0:57:04.920 --> 0:57:09.480 you know, but it was moving forward, and eventually we 0:57:09.600 --> 0:57:13.040 got we got signed through doing a video, which was 0:57:13.200 --> 0:57:18.160 very unusual. And man, this is about fifteen lifetimes ago. 0:57:19.480 --> 0:57:21.720 It really is. You know, it's hard to it's hard 0:57:21.760 --> 0:57:24.320 to look back without being misty eyed. But it was. 0:57:25.280 --> 0:57:27.640 It was rough. You know. We didn't have anybody to eat. 0:57:28.320 --> 0:57:31.520 It was all handsome mouth. It was desperate, you know, 0:57:31.560 --> 0:57:36.480 and London cold and rainy, no heating, no hot water. 0:57:36.840 --> 0:57:38.360 You know, it was kind of you know, it was 0:57:39.640 --> 0:57:42.600 it's chance in a million that it turned out like it. 0:57:42.680 --> 0:57:48.120 Did you signed with Chrysalis? Did you just walk in 0:57:48.160 --> 0:57:50.520 a room and sign or do you hire a lawyer 0:57:50.720 --> 0:57:53.160 or how did that happen. Well, the band had a lawyer, 0:57:53.880 --> 0:57:56.920 but the band was certainly provided the lawyer by Adrian. 0:57:57.200 --> 0:58:00.080 I mean, I knew it going in. You know, if 0:58:00.120 --> 0:58:02.680 you sign on for something, you can't start blaming people. 0:58:03.880 --> 0:58:05.800 It was a raw deal for me and a good 0:58:05.880 --> 0:58:10.680 deal for them. But I came as part of the package. 0:58:11.120 --> 0:58:15.000 And but it was a huge signing and we got 0:58:15.080 --> 0:58:19.280 some money and an allowance. You know, this is a 0:58:19.320 --> 0:58:22.360 big deal too back then, and we got on with it. 0:58:22.640 --> 0:58:26.440 We just I kept thinking, no matter what happens, if 0:58:26.520 --> 0:58:30.960 you just keep you know, punch it, you're gonna You're 0:58:30.960 --> 0:58:33.600 gonna come through somewhere. I just thought that was always 0:58:33.600 --> 0:58:36.160 going to be the way out. It's just stay with it. 0:58:36.800 --> 0:58:40.000 And it was fantastic, you know, coming to America St. 0:58:40.040 --> 0:58:43.720 Louis recorded St. Louis and seeing the arch and the 0:58:43.760 --> 0:58:47.800 whole thing, and and New York City in the seventies, 0:58:47.960 --> 0:58:52.160 you know, wow, l A. And then going through Cleveland 0:58:52.320 --> 0:58:55.400 where I just you know, cut my teeth and it 0:58:55.520 --> 0:58:57.480 was all kind of meant to be. It was ridiculous 0:58:57.560 --> 0:59:02.440 for me. Okay. So one of the big points in 0:59:02.520 --> 0:59:06.320 the movie is you work with Bob Ezrin. It hasn't 0:59:06.400 --> 0:59:08.960 done Pink Floyd the Wall at that point. But did 0:59:09.080 --> 0:59:12.960 lou Reid's album, did all the Alice Cooper records, and 0:59:13.080 --> 0:59:16.920 you talk, what a bad experience that is. He just 0:59:17.040 --> 0:59:20.880 didn't get it. I mean you really, I don't want to, like, 0:59:21.880 --> 0:59:24.680 you know, make a meal out of it, but it 0:59:24.920 --> 0:59:28.360 was I don't I don't know how he missed it. 0:59:29.400 --> 0:59:31.640 But in the Andy stuff coming to the studio, you know, 0:59:31.680 --> 0:59:36.800 it was we're being produced by the engineer. It's kind 0:59:36.800 --> 0:59:39.360 of unbelievable because I know he's got a great track record, 0:59:40.080 --> 0:59:45.160 but my experience wasn't good, okay, and he's normally in Toronto. 0:59:45.240 --> 0:59:47.840 Did he cut it in London or in Toronto? In Toronto? 0:59:47.880 --> 0:59:51.120 We went all the way Toronto to the studio, which 0:59:51.320 --> 0:59:53.840 costs a lot of money by time you're done, so 0:59:54.480 --> 0:59:57.120 you talk about the record, you're not happy, but you 0:59:57.200 --> 1:00:01.400 put it out anyway, So what to like starting with 1:00:01.520 --> 1:00:07.880 a record you don't believe him? Well, it's the weirdest thing. 1:00:08.000 --> 1:00:11.440 We took it back to England. Everybody here everything about it, 1:00:12.440 --> 1:00:15.040 and I think the record company thought about it and 1:00:15.200 --> 1:00:19.320 decided just to go. I mean in London, those posters 1:00:19.400 --> 1:00:23.680 on the on the sides of busses. You know, we'd 1:00:23.680 --> 1:00:26.040 be talking to somebody in the street like in Pickadilly 1:00:26.080 --> 1:00:28.880 Circus and the bus that go by Young Ambazon you 1:00:28.960 --> 1:00:32.640 get out of the subway, the underground that posts of 1:00:33.120 --> 1:00:35.240 the battle that you know, and we were on the 1:00:35.320 --> 1:00:38.840 major TV shows. It was like out of life of 1:00:38.960 --> 1:00:42.800 its own and I suppose you wish that people are 1:00:42.800 --> 1:00:44.560 gonna see it for more than it is, but I 1:00:44.600 --> 1:00:46.320 think we would have made a much better record with 1:00:46.400 --> 1:00:50.400 a different producer. Okay, Now, one other element in the 1:00:50.480 --> 1:00:55.480 movie is you're in the UK. It appears that Adrian 1:00:55.680 --> 1:00:59.200 Miller is going to fight with the label and he 1:00:59.320 --> 1:01:03.160 instructs all of you to come back, but you don't, right, 1:01:03.480 --> 1:01:06.200 So what was the real story there? Well, the real 1:01:06.320 --> 1:01:09.600 story is that, I mean what was what what was 1:01:09.680 --> 1:01:12.600 going on with him in the label on it was 1:01:12.680 --> 1:01:15.000 being threatening. I think he based his life on being 1:01:15.160 --> 1:01:17.640 one of the greatest twins, you know. It was one 1:01:17.640 --> 1:01:19.920 of those kind of Eastern gangster kind of like alright, 1:01:20.000 --> 1:01:23.600 my how you do it? Taken facing tif in night 1:01:23.720 --> 1:01:25.920 you do it all say? You know, it was like 1:01:26.920 --> 1:01:29.120 it was unnecessary, but that was part of his persona, 1:01:30.160 --> 1:01:32.920 and I think he went to talk with the company 1:01:33.160 --> 1:01:36.640 and wanted more money, and the company had already spent 1:01:37.720 --> 1:01:39.680 an aminal leg on the album. And then how does 1:01:39.760 --> 1:01:43.400 in America doing a twelve day promotional tour. We did 1:01:43.640 --> 1:01:48.680 all the major TV shows, played live, let the press, uh, 1:01:49.120 --> 1:01:51.560 record signings. We were in the middle of a whirlwind 1:01:51.920 --> 1:01:55.960 promotional thing and it was going well. And we were 1:01:56.000 --> 1:02:01.360 at the highest in Westwood in a suite and the 1:02:01.440 --> 1:02:07.240 phone rang and it was Adrian and Uh, it was like, 1:02:08.120 --> 1:02:11.560 pack your backs, you're coming home now. It was like, 1:02:11.760 --> 1:02:13.400 what the fund are you talk to me like that? 1:02:13.600 --> 1:02:19.240 For you know, it's you know, I'm the singer, I'm 1:02:19.280 --> 1:02:23.680 the writer, and I've just spent two years living off 1:02:24.040 --> 1:02:28.000 you know, French fries and milk, and you're telling me 1:02:28.040 --> 1:02:30.480 I'm going to get out a plane because Shervan Arow 1:02:30.640 --> 1:02:34.080 with the record company. Can't you sold it out? And 1:02:34.200 --> 1:02:37.640 he was just that. He went straight to Adrian number two, 1:02:37.720 --> 1:02:40.120 which is kind of like, you know, you'll do what 1:02:40.240 --> 1:02:42.560 I'm gonna tell you to Samuel manager and we just 1:02:42.680 --> 1:02:44.520 looked at each other. He got us all on the 1:02:44.600 --> 1:02:47.080 phone one by one and said, you know, you've got 1:02:47.200 --> 1:02:49.080 to come home now, and I just said, you know, 1:02:50.160 --> 1:02:53.360 I mean you can make that what you want. But 1:02:53.960 --> 1:02:58.440 if we had gone back, would have wound up without 1:02:58.520 --> 1:03:02.000 two the street, we wouldn't even a clubhouse, would have 1:03:02.080 --> 1:03:06.840 all disappeared back into our lives. It was over. It 1:03:06.960 --> 1:03:11.560 was a hard decision to make on some level. And 1:03:11.680 --> 1:03:14.720 I never felt right about saying no suation because he 1:03:14.920 --> 1:03:18.000 was he was the guy without Asian. There had been 1:03:18.080 --> 1:03:21.080 nothing but this part of him. There was always about 1:03:21.200 --> 1:03:24.360 more money and we weren't getting any, you know, so 1:03:24.480 --> 1:03:29.120 it was kind of like survival, you know, That's what 1:03:29.280 --> 1:03:32.200 it was. It was survival. So what did he say 1:03:32.360 --> 1:03:34.800 when you I mean, you do you ever basically say 1:03:34.880 --> 1:03:38.120 you're fired? How did that go down? Well, you know, 1:03:38.240 --> 1:03:40.120 we just the record company says us, what do you 1:03:40.200 --> 1:03:41.680 want to do? You know we could we're in the 1:03:41.760 --> 1:03:44.040 middle of this. Said well, we'll funk it. We're coming out. 1:03:44.200 --> 1:03:47.200 That's it. What what what do we do? And they 1:03:47.280 --> 1:03:51.800 put us in a house in Beverly Hills. Uh, and 1:03:52.240 --> 1:03:55.960 Adrian rang up the FBI or the police or something. 1:03:56.360 --> 1:04:02.280 But the FBI knocked on the door about four days later, um, 1:04:02.800 --> 1:04:07.680 wondering if we've been kidnapped. I mean, it was just wild. 1:04:07.920 --> 1:04:10.280 You know, you couldn't make this stuff up, and we 1:04:10.360 --> 1:04:13.960 had Bill Graham and a least like really huge managers 1:04:14.040 --> 1:04:16.440 coming to the house to see if we're consider being 1:04:16.480 --> 1:04:20.320 managed by that and stuff. I mean, it was something 1:04:20.360 --> 1:04:22.920 a matter of a sign before it exploded anyway. But 1:04:24.640 --> 1:04:28.160 without Adrian, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I wouldn't 1:04:28.200 --> 1:04:32.320 be where I am. There'd be no solo career, missing 1:04:32.440 --> 1:04:35.360 you or anything. None, none of the big success of 1:04:35.440 --> 1:04:37.960 the biggest success to the baby said, none of it 1:04:38.000 --> 1:04:41.200 would happen. I just wish you would be more amicable, 1:04:41.280 --> 1:04:43.720 you know, more more able to deal with other people 1:04:43.840 --> 1:04:46.360 to get what he wantsed you know, how'd you end 1:04:46.440 --> 1:04:50.160 up with Rob Stone? Um? He came by the house 1:04:50.440 --> 1:04:56.560 with Elliott Roberts and Elliott made me laugh. I mean, 1:04:57.160 --> 1:05:00.760 we had one guy show up. We looked like Perry 1:05:00.800 --> 1:05:05.120 Como and he had this like sweater on the button 1:05:05.240 --> 1:05:09.040 at the front and like a sports shirt and it's 1:05:09.120 --> 1:05:12.600 really bad haircut, like a Republican haircut. And he said, 1:05:14.000 --> 1:05:16.840 and I said, well, you know, who have you worked with? 1:05:17.280 --> 1:05:20.160 You know, because I was pretty much the spokesman. This 1:05:20.320 --> 1:05:23.560 guy said, A little band you might have heard of him, 1:05:23.920 --> 1:05:28.040 the Beatles, And yeah, you know, so he was immediately 1:05:28.280 --> 1:05:30.080 shown the door. You know, it was like, get the 1:05:30.280 --> 1:05:33.560 fuck out, get away from me. But Elliott was funny 1:05:34.400 --> 1:05:38.800 and very intelligent and Ron me and Ron just we 1:05:39.120 --> 1:05:42.360 just became great friends. We've been friends, I suppose on 1:05:42.480 --> 1:05:47.960 and off he is and uh, you know, and they 1:05:48.040 --> 1:05:50.960 were very connected. They had Neil Young, and Neil Young 1:05:51.120 --> 1:05:55.080 was to me like, uh he was my Dylan really 1:05:55.280 --> 1:05:59.040 at that point, and Joni Mitchell and they had the 1:05:59.200 --> 1:06:03.280 cars and I think they had Devo. But they were 1:06:03.360 --> 1:06:09.280 players and they were respected and we hit the ground 1:06:09.360 --> 1:06:12.320 running with them and we really had a ball. And 1:06:12.440 --> 1:06:14.240 then there was an argument between them and the record 1:06:14.280 --> 1:06:16.240 company of the money and that was the end of that. 1:06:16.480 --> 1:06:22.640 So money kept looming. It's oh what happened between Lookout 1:06:22.840 --> 1:06:25.520 management in the label and how did you end up 1:06:25.800 --> 1:06:30.160 partying ways with them? Well, I think Elliott went then 1:06:30.200 --> 1:06:33.080 and said, listen, we can't move forward this motion debt. 1:06:34.280 --> 1:06:38.760 You know, let's just call the debt experience and let's 1:06:38.840 --> 1:06:41.240 kick it off for the new you know, we're in now. 1:06:42.120 --> 1:06:44.120 And they had a big rather record company and it's 1:06:44.160 --> 1:06:48.200 just wouldn't work with them, and so that was it. 1:06:48.320 --> 1:06:51.040 You had to get a new manager. Yeah, and who 1:06:51.160 --> 1:06:58.280 was that manager? Well, that was Renaissance, manishment, that was Renaissance. 1:06:58.320 --> 1:07:03.320 They had Ray Davis, they had the Kinks, and we 1:07:03.480 --> 1:07:05.920 hit the road. I mean after the incident with the 1:07:05.920 --> 1:07:10.000 guitar player, we got Jonathan Cannon and Ricky Phillips expanded 1:07:10.040 --> 1:07:12.600 the band. Bab became the singer. Just decided to do 1:07:12.760 --> 1:07:17.919 Baby Smart too really and went out and and toured relentlessly. 1:07:18.240 --> 1:07:21.720 Great fund that he went nowhere. Okay, so the second album, 1:07:21.760 --> 1:07:24.880 how do you end up working with ron nevison Um? 1:07:25.360 --> 1:07:27.760 He was He just came along when we got to 1:07:28.040 --> 1:07:32.040 l a We we were staying in l a Um 1:07:32.800 --> 1:07:36.360 after the Adriaan thing and doing the odd TV show 1:07:38.040 --> 1:07:43.120 and ron was a series of one of different producers 1:07:43.240 --> 1:07:46.480 that we were introduced to. You know, he worked with 1:07:46.640 --> 1:07:50.280 towns End. That was a big, big Townsend fan, and 1:07:52.920 --> 1:07:59.080 you know he had an authentic rock track record. So 1:07:59.280 --> 1:08:01.800 now you're in the studio for a second time. First time, 1:08:01.840 --> 1:08:05.680 you have a bad experience. How is the experience overall? 1:08:06.040 --> 1:08:09.480 And there's a big focus on the making of Isn't 1:08:09.480 --> 1:08:13.040 It Time? Well, isn't It Time? As the song we 1:08:13.080 --> 1:08:16.559 didn't write, it became apparent that we needed to hit single, 1:08:16.680 --> 1:08:19.720 or the company thought we needed to hit single, and 1:08:19.880 --> 1:08:23.840 Yon had this piano demo and it was we're all 1:08:24.000 --> 1:08:27.920 kind of good at arrangement, but we told we tore 1:08:28.000 --> 1:08:31.120 it to pieces and remade it as as what became 1:08:31.280 --> 1:08:37.880 like a soul Brittish rock classic. But um runket engineer, well, 1:08:38.040 --> 1:08:41.519 we had the big room at the record plant and 1:08:41.720 --> 1:08:44.960 we were using a mobile unit out in Malibu in 1:08:45.080 --> 1:08:52.280 a in a ranch house. Um it worked. You know, 1:08:53.640 --> 1:08:56.240 it's still not what I saw as what we were, 1:08:57.200 --> 1:09:01.200 but um it worked, and those records stand up today. 1:09:02.160 --> 1:09:04.519 So how do you feel, and you know, you're a 1:09:04.560 --> 1:09:07.280 bass player, you're a singer, you're a writer, how do 1:09:07.360 --> 1:09:10.400 you feel about having to do someone else's song and 1:09:10.520 --> 1:09:14.000 that becoming the hit. Well, it didn't please me. I 1:09:14.080 --> 1:09:16.920 thought the songs were that I wrote were better. There 1:09:17.000 --> 1:09:19.800 was a song on the third album, call You. It 1:09:20.000 --> 1:09:22.439 was like people still shout for it now and I 1:09:22.520 --> 1:09:26.880 wrote that one weekend, like and it's really well, I 1:09:26.960 --> 1:09:28.360 look at it, I think how did I do that 1:09:28.479 --> 1:09:32.560 at that age? But there every company hated it. You know, 1:09:32.680 --> 1:09:34.719 you go up against these people that think you should 1:09:34.760 --> 1:09:40.000 sound like something when you don't, and you're a drift. 1:09:40.320 --> 1:09:42.679 You know, you're just fighting the record company all the time. 1:09:43.360 --> 1:09:45.839 I don't know anybody that that hasn't had that problem. 1:09:48.120 --> 1:09:52.720 So how does it end with the babies? Um? I 1:09:52.880 --> 1:09:56.760 left Jonathan can get off the trub With Journey, we 1:09:56.840 --> 1:10:00.519 hadn't had a hit record. Um the big record we 1:10:00.640 --> 1:10:04.559 had we said first the third record, and we had 1:10:04.840 --> 1:10:07.080 every summer I think of you and head first on 1:10:07.280 --> 1:10:09.559 a M and F M simultaneously. Was as big as 1:10:09.600 --> 1:10:12.720 we would ever get. It was fabulous, you know, and 1:10:12.800 --> 1:10:15.120 we were playing to sell that place. It's so opening 1:10:15.200 --> 1:10:18.479 for bigger bands and leaving everybody on their feet. We 1:10:18.560 --> 1:10:20.240 were at the top of our game and the record 1:10:20.280 --> 1:10:23.400 company just couldn't do it, and I just wore out 1:10:23.920 --> 1:10:35.120 and I went back to England. Really okay before we 1:10:35.200 --> 1:10:38.439 get there, you worked with Keith Olsen. Yeah, of course 1:10:38.800 --> 1:10:42.120 is no longer with us, but had great success with 1:10:42.320 --> 1:10:46.479 the Fleetwood back with Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham. Yeah. 1:10:48.080 --> 1:10:51.800 How was that experience relative to Ezra and Nevison, Well, 1:10:52.400 --> 1:10:55.760 it was more me and potatoes, you know. I think 1:10:55.800 --> 1:10:58.600 at that point we were used to playing live on 1:10:58.840 --> 1:11:04.519 stage as a four or five span and nailing it. 1:11:05.760 --> 1:11:07.560 There were no effects on it. It was just like 1:11:07.640 --> 1:11:11.840 a really tough band and we wanted to sound like 1:11:12.040 --> 1:11:17.400 that in the studio and he made that possible. You know, 1:11:18.240 --> 1:11:20.280 he was passive, he didn't have a lot of input 1:11:20.320 --> 1:11:23.639 on the music, but he was there, you know, through 1:11:23.680 --> 1:11:26.519 the long hours of recording and getting it right. And 1:11:27.000 --> 1:11:30.160 you know, he was a good guy. So when you 1:11:30.320 --> 1:11:34.280 go back to England, you're worn out. What's your plan? Well, 1:11:34.320 --> 1:11:38.640 I got married, I you know, and I lived in 1:11:38.720 --> 1:11:41.840 the countryside in a tiny cottage and I had no 1:11:42.040 --> 1:11:44.640 interest in coming back and doing it again. But it 1:11:45.000 --> 1:11:48.400 worked out that I would. Well what a little bit slower. 1:11:48.920 --> 1:11:52.559 The woman you married, how did you know her? Well, 1:11:52.720 --> 1:11:57.200 she was my girlfriend when I was seventeen and we'd 1:11:57.240 --> 1:12:00.560 come to America together with the babies. We moved to 1:12:00.720 --> 1:12:03.880 California and then she went back. She didn't like it, 1:12:04.720 --> 1:12:07.720 and you know, it was just a natural thing. I've 1:12:07.760 --> 1:12:12.200 known it for ten years. Okay, and you're out of 1:12:12.240 --> 1:12:15.240 the babies. Are you thinking, well, I'm gonna have children, 1:12:15.320 --> 1:12:18.160 I'm gonna get a straight job. What's going through your mind? Yeah? 1:12:18.200 --> 1:12:21.040 I had no idea. I had like six grand or 1:12:21.080 --> 1:12:25.760 something in the bank and this little cottage and shared 1:12:25.800 --> 1:12:30.040 a job at local paper, and I just didn't Honestly, 1:12:30.920 --> 1:12:33.800 I never thought further ahead than two or a few months. 1:12:35.439 --> 1:12:38.519 I don't know why, because you know, I'm cool enough 1:12:38.600 --> 1:12:41.680 to look forward, and you don't want to provide for 1:12:41.760 --> 1:12:45.080 a family whatever, But it I just don't know how 1:12:45.160 --> 1:12:47.240 we survived it. But I got off at a record 1:12:47.320 --> 1:12:49.160 contract with the m I and I went back and 1:12:51.760 --> 1:12:55.040 I have missing you, and everything just blew up again. 1:12:55.760 --> 1:12:59.400 Okay when you went back and got married, how much 1:12:59.479 --> 1:13:02.599 were you and out and how much were you disillusioned? Oh? 1:13:02.680 --> 1:13:05.760 I was through with it, you know, I was really 1:13:05.840 --> 1:13:10.120 through the music business. I didn't ever want to sing again. 1:13:10.360 --> 1:13:12.960 But I did go back, and I say I made 1:13:12.960 --> 1:13:16.000 a solo record for Christmas. I moved to New York 1:13:16.080 --> 1:13:19.040 City at a small tidy crash battle sent the Second Street, 1:13:19.640 --> 1:13:24.840 made the Ignition record with Neil Geraldo and and then 1:13:24.920 --> 1:13:28.960 I quit and went back to it. So, you know, Bob, 1:13:29.120 --> 1:13:31.479 you should have done the documentary because you know this 1:13:31.640 --> 1:13:34.479 is like, you know, this is in depth. Man, I'm 1:13:34.520 --> 1:13:37.320 sure there's only you and I vaguely interested in the 1:13:37.439 --> 1:13:42.840 past life. Well, you know this is I won't make 1:13:42.880 --> 1:13:45.280 it about me it's about you. But as I say, 1:13:46.360 --> 1:13:48.760 I resonate with a lot of what you're saying. I'm 1:13:48.800 --> 1:13:52.640 not a successful musician, but the internalization and wanting to 1:13:52.720 --> 1:13:57.559 be heard. But moving forward. Okay, you're when you were married, 1:13:57.640 --> 1:14:01.439 you've never had children? Correct? No, know, is it something 1:14:02.280 --> 1:14:05.240 that you thought you would have or you were kept 1:14:05.320 --> 1:14:07.800 kicking it down the road, or is something I'm so 1:14:07.960 --> 1:14:10.280 dedicated to my career I don't want any Yeah. I 1:14:10.400 --> 1:14:12.280 think it was finding the right person at the right 1:14:12.360 --> 1:14:14.920 time when things weren't falling apart. I mean, it's a 1:14:15.040 --> 1:14:19.280 journeyman profession. You're flying by the seat of your pounts 1:14:19.280 --> 1:14:22.080 all the time and you're on the move, and it's 1:14:22.120 --> 1:14:23.640 a you know, I look back at it now, I go, 1:14:23.880 --> 1:14:27.360 how the hell did I do that? Or go without 1:14:27.439 --> 1:14:31.640 this and do that and make that happen? And you know, 1:14:33.479 --> 1:14:35.360 I was in a relationship a few years ago with 1:14:35.439 --> 1:14:37.720 a girl that had a kid, and you fall in 1:14:37.800 --> 1:14:39.880 love with the kid, and we spent enough time around 1:14:39.920 --> 1:14:43.759 the kid, it's just a natural thing to start suggesting stuff. 1:14:44.000 --> 1:14:47.960 You know, you start becoming somebody's dad, and it's a 1:14:48.120 --> 1:14:52.559 it's a nice experience, you know, Um, it will never 1:14:52.640 --> 1:14:56.280 happen now, and I think long in the tooth now, 1:14:56.400 --> 1:14:57.920 So it's kind of like I wouldn't want to leave 1:14:57.960 --> 1:15:02.160 some kids alone. He was ten when I just put 1:15:02.240 --> 1:15:06.320 my clocks, you know. Okay, let's go back to the 1:15:06.360 --> 1:15:09.280 woman you marry that's also in the movie. How does 1:15:09.400 --> 1:15:14.439 that end? It just endswered me being away so much 1:15:15.720 --> 1:15:20.200 that we became strangers, you know, and she the same thing. 1:15:21.520 --> 1:15:25.320 You start living different lives, you know, you really do. 1:15:25.880 --> 1:15:28.080 When I also have to ask, because rock and roll, 1:15:28.160 --> 1:15:31.400 were you being a bad boy. I was a young 1:15:31.479 --> 1:15:34.240 man and I was an idiot, you know, but I think, um, 1:15:34.720 --> 1:15:37.400 I think that the marriage was definitely on the rocks 1:15:38.280 --> 1:15:42.120 long before we started full. I think we're just different people. 1:15:42.720 --> 1:15:45.639 I mean, I'd taken it to America and she really 1:15:45.680 --> 1:15:48.120 didn't like it, and what did you go home? So 1:15:48.280 --> 1:15:50.120 I think I was going to have to spend a 1:15:50.200 --> 1:15:52.360 lot more time in America. Let's do what I was doing, 1:15:52.400 --> 1:15:55.640 and you just spend You're just on the move. You're 1:15:55.680 --> 1:15:58.360 trying to make things work, send money home, the whole thing. 1:15:58.479 --> 1:16:04.720 You know, I just naturally he falls upon. Okay, so 1:16:04.960 --> 1:16:08.400 now you're back in the UK. You've made this album 1:16:08.520 --> 1:16:12.200 that was not commercially successful with Neil Girraldo did you 1:16:12.360 --> 1:16:14.560 know Neil Giraldo? How'd you hook up with him? No? 1:16:15.439 --> 1:16:17.639 He he came forward at some point I was looking 1:16:17.680 --> 1:16:21.160 for producer and said I'll do it, you know, and 1:16:21.280 --> 1:16:23.760 we we had long conversations, went for a couple of 1:16:23.880 --> 1:16:27.120 walks at a few drinks. I was working with Ivan 1:16:27.200 --> 1:16:32.320 Kroll for Patty Smith's band and Iggy Pop and Frankie 1:16:32.400 --> 1:16:37.880 l Rocco Um had a really crack New York band. 1:16:38.000 --> 1:16:41.360 It was. It was a edge, edgey band, you know, 1:16:42.240 --> 1:16:44.479 And I think, left to my own devices, I would 1:16:44.520 --> 1:16:47.040 have gone off and works with Chris Spenning. Me and 1:16:47.160 --> 1:16:50.599 Chris were talking about doing a band with Buster Jones. 1:16:51.560 --> 1:16:57.840 And but Neil what a guy. I mean, he was 1:16:57.880 --> 1:16:59.840 between me and the record company. It was all of 1:17:00.040 --> 1:17:01.920 lost sort. So she me in the record company. I 1:17:02.000 --> 1:17:05.519 hear they heared me. But we made a great record. 1:17:06.160 --> 1:17:08.320 It was really a record that stands up, you know, 1:17:09.120 --> 1:17:13.200 and both power. You know. If it was good. So 1:17:13.360 --> 1:17:17.200 you go back to England, you think you're done, Yes, 1:17:18.640 --> 1:17:21.960 what is the trigger to come back? Well? I met 1:17:22.080 --> 1:17:28.920 this lawyer in tracks on seventy two Street before I quit, 1:17:30.560 --> 1:17:33.720 and he kept in touch and when I went back 1:17:33.760 --> 1:17:38.679 to England. But what's the name of that lawyer? Rick Smith? Okay? 1:17:39.040 --> 1:17:41.040 And then there was another guy called Stephen was shot 1:17:41.160 --> 1:17:44.280 and they became partless and they got me out of 1:17:44.400 --> 1:17:46.960 my deal with Christmas. They got me out of my deal. 1:17:47.200 --> 1:17:48.960 It costs an armon of leg that I got away, 1:17:50.000 --> 1:17:53.000 and they got me signed to E M. I and 1:17:53.160 --> 1:17:56.479 everything just changed. The sun burst through the sky, you know. 1:17:56.560 --> 1:18:00.280 It was like they took me seriously amid the record 1:18:00.320 --> 1:18:03.400 of White to make. I produced it and we had 1:18:03.520 --> 1:18:09.360 number one single overnight. Okay, although you go into it, 1:18:10.160 --> 1:18:13.760 tell us here the story of writing missing you. Well, 1:18:13.800 --> 1:18:16.599 I was around at somebody's house. We'd we'd finished the record, 1:18:18.080 --> 1:18:22.960 and I knew we hadn't got the single. We were 1:18:23.000 --> 1:18:25.360 having a bone in the studio. We were writing songs 1:18:25.400 --> 1:18:30.040 for me and the guitar player, Gary Myrick. We just storming. Wait, wait, 1:18:30.240 --> 1:18:32.719 I have to ask you something. I was a huge 1:18:32.840 --> 1:18:35.600 fan of that first record, She Talks in Stereo. I 1:18:35.720 --> 1:18:38.320 bought it. Yeah, I went to see him at the Roxy. 1:18:38.600 --> 1:18:41.840 How did you cook up with Gary Myrick through Gary 1:18:41.920 --> 1:18:45.040 Gersh at E M I. I think I think Gary 1:18:45.120 --> 1:18:47.880 Gersh was s tiking to Gary Myrick about doing a deal, 1:18:48.720 --> 1:18:51.040 and when I was looking for guitar player, Gary said, 1:18:51.120 --> 1:18:53.839 you know, he should meet Gary Merrick. It might be interesting. 1:18:53.920 --> 1:18:56.400 You know, he's he's so out there, but he's great. 1:18:56.439 --> 1:18:59.880 And I said, okay, sure. I mean Gary showed up 1:19:00.600 --> 1:19:04.759 and we had the Trauma from Tom Petty's band sitting 1:19:06.040 --> 1:19:12.519 and Flee was on base Uh and Gary and we 1:19:12.680 --> 1:19:15.160 hit it off. It was just like magical. It was like, 1:19:15.320 --> 1:19:20.080 let's go, and we've made the record in record time, 1:19:20.200 --> 1:19:24.960 like in six weeks from meeting. Off the plane too mixing, 1:19:25.120 --> 1:19:27.639 and I knew we hadn't got a single. I knew. 1:19:27.880 --> 1:19:31.760 I knew enough about the business now it worked to 1:19:31.920 --> 1:19:34.560 know that come and go so fast. You get a 1:19:34.560 --> 1:19:37.320 great review in Rolling Stone and then people go back 1:19:37.360 --> 1:19:40.360 to what they were doing. And I wanted a hit single. 1:19:40.640 --> 1:19:42.559 And I was working on this song with this guy 1:19:42.920 --> 1:19:47.360 in his studio and we've been there a couple of 1:19:47.479 --> 1:19:50.479 days while they were mixing, and he hadn't put any 1:19:50.560 --> 1:19:54.240 colde on the tape. So he's hitting play and forward 1:19:54.840 --> 1:19:58.439 and reverse and play, and he couldn't find the song 1:19:58.720 --> 1:20:01.840 worked on the night before and he hit the playboaton 1:20:01.880 --> 1:20:04.679 at the wrong time, and this thing had been working 1:20:04.760 --> 1:20:11.639 on like an eight note field with terrible phony drums 1:20:11.720 --> 1:20:14.360 and some good guitar plan but it was the backing 1:20:14.439 --> 1:20:17.960 track for What's a Nice to Be Missing You? And 1:20:18.040 --> 1:20:20.960 I said, let me have a crack at that. Just 1:20:21.120 --> 1:20:24.439 let me have a go. You know, I'm always gamed 1:20:24.479 --> 1:20:25.880 to do that kind of thing. I was good at 1:20:25.920 --> 1:20:27.599 that in the Babies, you know, I could make stuff 1:20:27.640 --> 1:20:31.760 upon the mic, and I got it. We ran through 1:20:31.800 --> 1:20:35.840 it once, he didn't record it, and then he read 1:20:35.960 --> 1:20:38.479 He recorded the second one, and I got the whole 1:20:38.520 --> 1:20:45.400 first verse, and of course, you know, I mean every 1:20:45.520 --> 1:20:48.400 road that I've been ever been on led me to 1:20:48.520 --> 1:20:52.200 that moment, and I knew it was number one. And 1:20:53.160 --> 1:20:55.400 that was my next question. People don't understand when you 1:20:55.479 --> 1:21:00.679 do something that's on the leven you oh, you know exactly. 1:21:00.760 --> 1:21:03.479 You touch something like a microphone in its life, and 1:21:03.520 --> 1:21:06.160 you got like this, you know, it's like getting a shot. 1:21:07.360 --> 1:21:11.160 And I hadn't even it was like sleepwalking. I've used 1:21:11.200 --> 1:21:15.040 every time I Think of You as the first line 1:21:15.080 --> 1:21:18.200 because it was a baby sun every time I think 1:21:18.240 --> 1:21:20.720 of you, And so I had no idea what I 1:21:20.800 --> 1:21:23.639 was going to sing, and so I sang that first 1:21:23.720 --> 1:21:28.200 line and the rest of it just happened. I always 1:21:28.280 --> 1:21:31.160 catch my breath and I'm still standing here in your 1:21:31.240 --> 1:21:33.400 miles away, and I'm wondering why you left. And there's 1:21:33.400 --> 1:21:36.720 a storm that's racing through my frozen heart tonight. You've 1:21:36.800 --> 1:21:39.920 missing you at all since you've been going away in 1:21:40.040 --> 1:21:45.559 one piece. And yeah, I always could do that. Most 1:21:45.600 --> 1:21:47.840 of my lyrics come from that place. Have just close 1:21:47.880 --> 1:21:53.000 your eyes, step forward, don't overthink, just open up. You 1:21:53.080 --> 1:21:56.800 can't count on it. It's a very feminine thing. If 1:21:56.840 --> 1:22:00.599 you go there too often, or you disrespect and thank god, 1:22:00.800 --> 1:22:03.760 I'll take care of that tomorrow, it goes away, it 1:22:03.880 --> 1:22:07.679 ignores you. And if you save it for the right moments, 1:22:08.800 --> 1:22:13.080 it's almost like having a a secret lover. Is somebody 1:22:13.320 --> 1:22:17.640 that's just waiting for you. You know. It's intense, But 1:22:18.200 --> 1:22:22.040 I'm sure that something is brilliant as fast Car by 1:22:22.280 --> 1:22:25.559 Tracy Chapman. I'm sure she sat down. She's going doom 1:22:25.600 --> 1:22:29.599 doing doom ding. You've been a fast is it faster? 1:22:30.000 --> 1:22:33.240 You can find one? You know. I'm sure that all 1:22:33.560 --> 1:22:35.800 the really beautiful songs in the world that are really 1:22:35.960 --> 1:22:39.160 heartbreak come from that kind of and and the really 1:22:39.280 --> 1:22:43.040 tremendous rock and our songs. You know, watching Paul McCartney 1:22:43.160 --> 1:22:46.080 right get Back in the in the recent mood, you 1:22:46.120 --> 1:22:48.840 know you can see him, you can seem like zoning out. 1:22:49.160 --> 1:22:51.040 The other two are looking at him. What was he doing? 1:22:51.600 --> 1:22:54.200 And the next thing, you know, get Back evolves out 1:22:54.240 --> 1:23:01.240 of like two courts, two courts. It's magical. Okay, you 1:23:01.360 --> 1:23:05.160 write the song, you know you have something. Are you 1:23:05.320 --> 1:23:12.040 worried about nailing it in the recording? Uh? I never 1:23:12.120 --> 1:23:16.400 worry about that. That would be I'd be making that out. 1:23:17.600 --> 1:23:19.680 I really am in controlling the steet, you know, I 1:23:19.800 --> 1:23:23.360 really I know when it's not working, I don't know 1:23:23.400 --> 1:23:29.120 what it is. Um you know, I mean I was 1:23:29.200 --> 1:23:31.679 pushing myself so hard. Does it say one that rightcord? 1:23:32.520 --> 1:23:35.000 I would prob these same things twenty times. Oh so 1:23:35.160 --> 1:23:39.040 it was what I wanted it to be. So it's 1:23:39.040 --> 1:23:42.040 a completely different era. You have a new label, it's 1:23:42.080 --> 1:23:46.120 a new era MTV. You have a song that is 1:23:46.560 --> 1:23:50.840 obvious smash. Does everybody say get let's get behind this, 1:23:51.000 --> 1:23:53.719 let's make a video, or do they put the record 1:23:53.800 --> 1:23:55.760 out and say, well let's see what happens. Oh no, 1:23:56.680 --> 1:23:59.960 Jim Marsa Jim Marsa was the head of the company. 1:24:00.400 --> 1:24:03.439 Gary Gersh was the n R guy, and French Shi 1:24:03.520 --> 1:24:07.160 Gautier the late French shiputy. It was the art department. 1:24:08.960 --> 1:24:11.720 They were they knew what they've got. I think it 1:24:11.800 --> 1:24:13.880 was a lot of good will towards me at that point. 1:24:13.960 --> 1:24:16.479 I think people would watch Christalists and they're like, oh man, 1:24:17.240 --> 1:24:19.880 And then with a solo album, I think there was 1:24:20.160 --> 1:24:24.559 a certain empathy, you know, people want to see me succeed. 1:24:25.520 --> 1:24:29.200 What about the video, Well, I used the same guy 1:24:29.320 --> 1:24:32.200 that I used for Change, and I was very happy 1:24:32.280 --> 1:24:34.960 with that video, so I suggested him and he came 1:24:35.000 --> 1:24:39.559 along and made a great, great video. The to tell 1:24:39.600 --> 1:24:41.880 you about am I and Gary Gersh, I mean, I 1:24:42.080 --> 1:24:45.519 was in New York City mixing the record, staying at 1:24:45.560 --> 1:24:50.000 the Mareflower, and we went to see a David Bailey exhibition, me, 1:24:50.200 --> 1:24:54.600 Stephen Michelle and Gary Gersh. David Bailey is like the 1:24:54.680 --> 1:24:59.519 premier photographer of the sixties, you know, and this is 1:24:59.520 --> 1:25:02.479 a crazy wins Paul mcconde and meet Chuck the Shrimp, 1:25:02.680 --> 1:25:06.080 you know, you know, it's just fabulous stuff. And I 1:25:06.160 --> 1:25:08.560 turned around to Gary and said you should do the 1:25:08.640 --> 1:25:11.479 album cover. The next thing. I know, I'm in the 1:25:11.560 --> 1:25:17.760 Concorde flying to London to work with David Bailey. I mean, 1:25:18.000 --> 1:25:20.120 that's that's what my life was like. I mean, you 1:25:20.240 --> 1:25:22.960 think you think this is like I mean, never, Sary, 1:25:22.960 --> 1:25:25.240 you asked me a question. I can give you like 1:25:25.360 --> 1:25:27.920 four stories that led to that. You know the answer. 1:25:28.520 --> 1:25:31.280 But you know, hey, you know, Gary, you should do 1:25:31.400 --> 1:25:34.640 the album cover Concorde, here we go, you know, and 1:25:35.200 --> 1:25:37.800 working with David Bailey, he shot the album cover. I 1:25:37.840 --> 1:25:43.560 mean's just this times, just things cover less they do 1:25:44.000 --> 1:25:46.880 sometimes the only energy in the world that's that you've 1:25:46.920 --> 1:25:50.839 been looking for to to lock together like a wooden puzzle, 1:25:51.160 --> 1:25:55.479 you know, and it just clicks and it did. What 1:25:55.760 --> 1:26:01.599 was it like seeing yourself on TV ad infinitum um. Well, 1:26:02.680 --> 1:26:05.479 it became a bit much because you know, I think 1:26:05.520 --> 1:26:07.800 Missing You was like number one on MTV for like 1:26:08.680 --> 1:26:11.000 fifteen weeks, and there's a point where you want to say, 1:26:11.600 --> 1:26:14.640 that's really great, thank you, you know. And I was 1:26:14.680 --> 1:26:16.479 still a bit shy about it. I couldn't do out 1:26:16.479 --> 1:26:20.280 in New York, whereas before I could go out, but 1:26:20.439 --> 1:26:22.519 now when I went in a bar would put Missing 1:26:22.560 --> 1:26:24.479 You on the tube box and started buying many shrinks 1:26:24.560 --> 1:26:28.080 and stuff. It was just different and I didn't didn't 1:26:28.120 --> 1:26:30.200 really know how to deal with it at first. It 1:26:30.360 --> 1:26:32.960 wasn't that comfortable because it was really a step forward 1:26:33.040 --> 1:26:37.400 from being famous to really famous. You know, a different world. 1:26:38.000 --> 1:26:39.840 And the reason I love New York is that just 1:26:39.920 --> 1:26:43.000 disappearance the ground. So it's a different world for me. 1:26:45.439 --> 1:26:48.719 And how much pressure was there on the follow up album? 1:26:50.120 --> 1:26:55.160 No question? He offered me a large amount of money, 1:26:55.360 --> 1:26:58.320 which I needed better. I hadn't go any money. Um 1:26:59.320 --> 1:27:01.519 as seen how someone it's to bias. It just gives 1:27:01.560 --> 1:27:04.800 a record and I just looked at my cattle and 1:27:04.920 --> 1:27:08.599 looked what I've got, went to work with Ivan, banged 1:27:08.680 --> 1:27:11.560 up some songs and made Damascus Smiles album. It's a 1:27:11.640 --> 1:27:15.120 different album completely. There's there's like four or five extremely 1:27:16.479 --> 1:27:19.240 strong songs on that one. But I wasn't shooting to 1:27:19.880 --> 1:27:23.439 replicate successive Missy. That would have been in basilic, you know, 1:27:23.520 --> 1:27:27.320 it would have been just stupid. It's like, write something 1:27:27.400 --> 1:27:31.240 that sounds like missing. It wasn't gonna happen. Once you 1:27:31.439 --> 1:27:35.720 reach that pinnacle, to what degree are you striving to 1:27:35.840 --> 1:27:39.120 replicate the success And to what degree you're disappointed when 1:27:39.200 --> 1:27:42.720 you don't reach the holy grail once again. Well, it 1:27:42.800 --> 1:27:45.760 didn't bother me. I honestly thought if I could be 1:27:45.880 --> 1:27:48.160 and it's in the documentary, but I meant to, if 1:27:48.200 --> 1:27:52.200 I could establish myself as a singer, and right then 1:27:52.240 --> 1:27:54.519 I could make any kind of recordsitant to make every 1:27:54.600 --> 1:27:57.120 other year. I wasn't going to be on the Merry 1:27:57.160 --> 1:28:00.800 go round. I could write my own ticket. There always 1:28:00.840 --> 1:28:03.640 be money coming in. It wasn't going to be do 1:28:03.960 --> 1:28:07.320 or die. It was just art, you know. I didn't 1:28:07.360 --> 1:28:11.680 see any reason to be Madonna, you know, I mean, 1:28:11.760 --> 1:28:14.639 that's that's a that's a whole different thing. Man. That's 1:28:14.720 --> 1:28:18.400 like that's a day job in itself. And you specifically 1:28:18.439 --> 1:28:21.360 said that's not me. Well, yeah, no, I honestly did. 1:28:21.680 --> 1:28:25.160 I want you to just make great records and have 1:28:25.360 --> 1:28:28.240 a follow me. I mean, what else is there? I mean, 1:28:28.280 --> 1:28:30.320 after a couple of years of being top of the pops, 1:28:31.080 --> 1:28:33.840 if you follow that path, you usually finished. But if 1:28:33.880 --> 1:28:36.280 you do the Richard Thompson thing or whatever, it is, 1:28:36.439 --> 1:28:39.760 like it sounds and so well, you know, you try, 1:28:39.880 --> 1:28:42.680 and you know, give the best you've got for the 1:28:42.760 --> 1:28:46.400 period you're in, but it's it's if you can make 1:28:46.479 --> 1:28:51.080 it last for five years. You've done something almost impossible. 1:28:52.840 --> 1:28:57.000 You know, I'm here after forty years. It isn't chance, 1:28:57.400 --> 1:29:00.320 you know, so I know chance to Emford's old is 1:29:00.400 --> 1:29:03.960 publishing your interest in missing you go with it or 1:29:04.040 --> 1:29:07.120 you still have I got it back in last year. 1:29:07.840 --> 1:29:10.240 I finally got the publishing back on Missing You last year. 1:29:11.560 --> 1:29:14.479 So now it's it's you know, it's it's really worth 1:29:14.600 --> 1:29:17.840 something there and you plan to hold on to it. 1:29:17.880 --> 1:29:21.160 Or if someone made as if somebody comes out that 1:29:21.200 --> 1:29:23.880 would work in obviously twenty million for my publishing. I 1:29:23.920 --> 1:29:28.200 would certainly put down my coffee cup and and turn 1:29:28.280 --> 1:29:30.320 around and talk to him, you know, I certainly would, 1:29:31.000 --> 1:29:34.400 And at this point in my life that would just 1:29:34.520 --> 1:29:40.360 give me complete freedoms do anything. I won't really Okay. 1:29:41.280 --> 1:29:46.240 And so you're making these records with E M I America. 1:29:46.880 --> 1:29:50.040 And one other theme is on the in the movie 1:29:50.240 --> 1:29:52.720 is whenever you really are an inch away you have 1:29:52.840 --> 1:29:57.080 great product, something happens with the record company. So what 1:29:57.280 --> 1:29:59.880 happened with E M I? And then certainly a mob 1:30:00.040 --> 1:30:04.400 go there after that field? So tell us about those situations. 1:30:04.840 --> 1:30:08.080 E M I. I had this record call will always returned. 1:30:08.680 --> 1:30:10.840 We have a number one single in our and our 1:30:11.920 --> 1:30:15.280 records and whatever it is radio and record Yeah, yeah, 1:30:15.479 --> 1:30:18.120 in the older and I went to Germany. Were run 1:30:18.240 --> 1:30:24.400 by Robert Kardashian. No, yes, the big Kig right special 1:30:24.520 --> 1:30:28.280 k but yeah, and I went to Germany to do 1:30:28.680 --> 1:30:32.560 some TV to promote the single. I came back and 1:30:32.680 --> 1:30:37.120 the record had gone from number one to like And 1:30:37.240 --> 1:30:39.640 what had happened is the E M I man in 1:30:39.840 --> 1:30:45.080 My America and overnight become in my Manhattan. And they 1:30:45.280 --> 1:30:48.400 changed the head of the company, that changed the offices everything, 1:30:49.320 --> 1:30:53.719 and it was really great. I have nothing. Joe Smith 1:30:53.840 --> 1:30:56.960 came in. He was great. He tried to salvage everything. 1:30:57.040 --> 1:30:59.960 But the team gets broken up and you can't blame 1:31:00.000 --> 1:31:03.920 on anybody. It just is how business goes. And they 1:31:04.080 --> 1:31:07.160 tried everything that made the right videos and I got 1:31:07.240 --> 1:31:09.040 truly grain to manage for me and it was like 1:31:09.160 --> 1:31:11.640 here we go, but he couldn't. You can't selve me 1:31:11.800 --> 1:31:14.439 something like that. It's a train wreck. I mean, even 1:31:14.479 --> 1:31:17.600 to get involved this heroic and I E M. I 1:31:17.720 --> 1:31:20.800 were nothing but great with me. They were just stupendous. 1:31:21.520 --> 1:31:24.080 The new regime was cool. Everything was cool. They were 1:31:24.160 --> 1:31:28.960 nice people. But yeah, sometimes it happens. You know, you 1:31:29.080 --> 1:31:32.519 might go, I had a hit single. I had a 1:31:32.600 --> 1:31:37.679 song in the true Romance movie Quentin Tarantino. Uh Tony 1:31:37.760 --> 1:31:41.760 Scott shot the video filmmaker and Monument Valley, and that 1:31:41.920 --> 1:31:44.600 was really my best work, best fan I've ever been in, 1:31:45.840 --> 1:31:51.439 best songs, the whole thing, and a month out, imago folds. 1:31:52.800 --> 1:31:56.000 It just happens. All this stuff just happens. You can't 1:31:56.040 --> 1:31:59.240 take it personally. A couple of years later, I bought 1:31:59.280 --> 1:32:03.080 the record and re released it, so I own it 1:32:04.320 --> 1:32:08.360 and so I don't have to watch the record just 1:32:08.479 --> 1:32:11.759 get cooked in weeds. I can still promote that record, 1:32:11.880 --> 1:32:16.040 and I'm proud of that record. Well, you're very upbeating 1:32:16.160 --> 1:32:20.280 philosophical about all this in the movie, you don't seem 1:32:20.439 --> 1:32:23.720 quite as settled. What do you want snow? That was 1:32:24.040 --> 1:32:28.640 the pandemic? How about anti antidepressants therapy? And they come 1:32:28.720 --> 1:32:32.720 in no no alcohol, boy, it's it's I think it's 1:32:34.000 --> 1:32:36.000 it's the pandemic. You know, when when you have that 1:32:36.120 --> 1:32:39.280 much time to think and everything's going wrong, I'm sure 1:32:39.360 --> 1:32:43.920 it's gonna have a shared let's do it. But you 1:32:44.040 --> 1:32:46.000 get pragmatic when you go. You know, if you've been 1:32:46.040 --> 1:32:48.920 around the block a few times. You learned to live 1:32:49.000 --> 1:32:59.040 with the stuff that happens. So how does that English 1:32:59.160 --> 1:33:03.479 come to be? Well? I was. I went to Epic 1:33:04.160 --> 1:33:06.479 to get a record deal, and the A and R 1:33:06.600 --> 1:33:10.639 guy I didn't like my songs and I really wanted 1:33:10.680 --> 1:33:13.599 to be on Epic. And Trudy Green, my manager, would 1:33:13.640 --> 1:33:15.360 have liked me to be there. She was the biggest 1:33:15.439 --> 1:33:22.200 best brutalist in the classiest record level. And me and 1:33:22.280 --> 1:33:24.120 Trudy left the me scene and I was going like, 1:33:24.240 --> 1:33:26.320 I can't work with that guy. You know, he doesn't 1:33:26.360 --> 1:33:30.400 even like me. And I remember walking down Madison Avenue 1:33:30.720 --> 1:33:36.320 and saying to Trudy, I'll start a band. I'll start 1:33:36.400 --> 1:33:39.080 a band and we'll we'll be on Epic, but I'll 1:33:39.080 --> 1:33:41.320 be the singer in the band. Was just starting the 1:33:41.439 --> 1:33:47.639 Richard Griffith R. Yeah, yeah, yes, it was. You said 1:33:47.640 --> 1:33:50.120 you're gonna start a band. Yeah. I went all of them. 1:33:50.240 --> 1:33:52.519 I went to England looking at guitar players. I was 1:33:52.560 --> 1:33:55.519 going to track down Johnny Mark to see if you 1:33:55.640 --> 1:33:58.240 knew anybody, and none of that happened. I didn't do 1:33:58.280 --> 1:34:00.479 any of it night In the end, I I want 1:34:00.520 --> 1:34:03.560 to work with Jonathan Kane Neil Sean, Ricky Phillips, and 1:34:03.600 --> 1:34:08.479 dinkashanovo Um. It's said about five months to arrive at 1:34:08.560 --> 1:34:12.000 that point or four months, and from that point on 1:34:12.120 --> 1:34:15.160 he just took off. Well, you had a history with 1:34:15.320 --> 1:34:19.639 Jonathan Kane. How did you get Neil Shaan involved through 1:34:19.760 --> 1:34:23.719 Jonathan Kane? And Neil was just like, Journey is not happening. 1:34:23.800 --> 1:34:25.840 I'm in Well yeah, I mean, you know, I mean 1:34:26.160 --> 1:34:29.559 I think they always had problems there. They're always seems 1:34:29.560 --> 1:34:33.599 to be very political, and nothing was happening with them. 1:34:34.840 --> 1:34:39.320 And Neil just wants to play, you know, he just 1:34:39.439 --> 1:34:42.240 wants to plug in and play. So now you go 1:34:42.439 --> 1:34:47.160 back with the band and what is what do they say? Yeah? 1:34:48.760 --> 1:34:50.880 I knew it, you know, you walk in with those 1:34:50.920 --> 1:34:55.320 guys and yeah, you know, guy, I'm gonna like to 1:34:55.400 --> 1:34:57.720 STWN And it was like, we love it, We'll sign it. 1:34:58.160 --> 1:35:01.240 He's a very large check, you know, and can we 1:35:01.320 --> 1:35:04.200 have your publishing? And you know, how are you doing? 1:35:04.360 --> 1:35:06.080 Can we have dinners tonight? You know, it's just like 1:35:06.160 --> 1:35:09.240 it's certainly in a different level. And I got a 1:35:09.439 --> 1:35:15.360 huge publishing advance from Sony and everything was back on track, 1:35:15.720 --> 1:35:17.840 you know, And how did you end up doing the 1:35:17.920 --> 1:35:21.519 Diane Warrens song. Well, we've done the whole album and 1:35:21.640 --> 1:35:23.800 the this is a great story and the A and 1:35:23.880 --> 1:35:27.640 our guy left us alone. Who is they say in 1:35:27.720 --> 1:35:32.479 our person? It was done Grayson, Okay, yeah with us, 1:35:32.520 --> 1:35:34.200 so you can sell I don't want to, you know, 1:35:34.479 --> 1:35:37.120 it's a nice guy. And and I went to the 1:35:37.200 --> 1:35:39.600 ban and said, listen, Don's been really great. You know, 1:35:39.680 --> 1:35:41.519 he staid out the way most of the time, and 1:35:41.600 --> 1:35:44.360 he's he's trying to be as flying on the wall 1:35:44.439 --> 1:35:48.320 as possible. And he asked his song, and I know, Diane, 1:35:48.360 --> 1:35:50.200 it would be great if you just tried the song, 1:35:50.360 --> 1:35:54.599 you know, at least you know, it would be just good. 1:35:55.439 --> 1:35:58.599 And he said okay, and so it went in at 1:35:58.640 --> 1:36:01.200 the eleventh thound. Could when I see you smile just 1:36:01.960 --> 1:36:05.439 to sort of show the company that we were capable 1:36:05.479 --> 1:36:08.000 of working with them when we liked doing and everything 1:36:08.120 --> 1:36:10.560 was cool. And we just looked at each other like, 1:36:10.600 --> 1:36:15.040 oh no, you know, it's at it. And the big 1:36:15.160 --> 1:36:19.960 question was then at Frontline h K Management, was do 1:36:20.080 --> 1:36:24.040 we not do this song um or do we have 1:36:24.120 --> 1:36:27.280 a number one single? It was like that that awful 1:36:27.600 --> 1:36:31.120 folk in the road, you know, Okay, Well, it ends 1:36:31.200 --> 1:36:35.240 up being a huge hit. Yeah, but then the band implodes. 1:36:35.320 --> 1:36:37.320 Why does the band implode? Well, I think it's a 1:36:37.360 --> 1:36:40.680 lot of tension, a lot of egos, a lot of um, 1:36:41.640 --> 1:36:47.479 too much business not of music, you know, and when 1:36:47.520 --> 1:36:50.800 the band falls apart, you say another day in music 1:36:50.880 --> 1:36:55.160 business or you're pretty disillusioned depressed about I went back 1:36:55.200 --> 1:36:57.120 to my house in pound Ridge and that was the end. 1:36:57.320 --> 1:36:59.559 I really didn't want to do anything else or ever 1:36:59.680 --> 1:37:02.800 again with the music. You know, I had enough money 1:37:02.880 --> 1:37:07.120 coming in at a lovely house in a wood and uh, 1:37:07.720 --> 1:37:10.200 it was just like I just didn't care. It wasn't like, 1:37:10.360 --> 1:37:13.080 you know, it's sacrifice. It was like I just want 1:37:13.120 --> 1:37:15.800 to get out. And then I got, after about a 1:37:15.920 --> 1:37:17.559 year and a half, Agot offer to deal with him 1:37:17.560 --> 1:37:20.880 algo and I did all these songs, you know. So 1:37:21.040 --> 1:37:23.960 I went back in to make one lass solo record 1:37:24.240 --> 1:37:29.160 about New York City, and like I said before, Temple 1:37:29.200 --> 1:37:32.120 Bar was toldly my best record. Okay, but then the 1:37:32.240 --> 1:37:35.519 being the label blows up. Yeah, so how do you 1:37:35.560 --> 1:37:38.840 get pulled back in one more time? Well, ron Stone, 1:37:39.280 --> 1:37:43.439 ron Stone, I I see making Temple Bar, it was 1:37:43.560 --> 1:37:45.840 like the watershed moment. I went back to be a writer. 1:37:47.680 --> 1:37:51.280 The slightly corporate element of bad English and nauseate me. 1:37:51.400 --> 1:37:53.320 But I was I didn't want to do with myself, 1:37:54.320 --> 1:37:57.080 and I thought I had to redeemed myself. That's the truth. 1:37:57.600 --> 1:38:00.160 And I saw. I wrote the record the Downtown out 1:38:00.600 --> 1:38:05.120 More in God's Shadow, Glittering Price. This this was like 1:38:05.320 --> 1:38:10.400 the best I ever got, and it reawaked my interest 1:38:10.439 --> 1:38:15.599 in writing. I couldn't stop. I felt like I'd become 1:38:15.600 --> 1:38:19.479 an artist together, and uh, I wrote a record. I 1:38:19.640 --> 1:38:24.080 drove across America when the record company went down. I 1:38:24.160 --> 1:38:27.120 went to New Orleans. I drove in a cheap Cherokee 1:38:27.240 --> 1:38:31.000 down to New Orleans, sent up through Kentucky to Ohio, 1:38:32.120 --> 1:38:36.720 and then east to New York City back home. But 1:38:36.840 --> 1:38:39.639 I wrote most of that album When You Were Mine 1:38:40.360 --> 1:38:43.799 on that trip. And I've fallen in love with country 1:38:43.920 --> 1:38:48.599 music again, as with Temple Buds, a slight country influence, 1:38:49.200 --> 1:38:53.200 baritone guitars and stuff. I'm so lons I could tries 1:38:53.240 --> 1:38:56.840 on that, but on When You Were Mine, it's really 1:38:56.920 --> 1:39:02.280 a bluesia, more folky kind of approach. And uh, you know, 1:39:02.560 --> 1:39:06.240 there's no choice. You have to make this, these these albums. 1:39:06.320 --> 1:39:10.479 It's not like a great. You know, it's not biblical, 1:39:10.640 --> 1:39:14.400 it's what I do. It's just making music. So how 1:39:14.439 --> 1:39:16.519 do you end up getting hooked up with Alison Krause 1:39:16.560 --> 1:39:19.920 which is in the movie but We Got You Now? Well? I, Um, 1:39:20.240 --> 1:39:22.240 I was in Nashville, I was writing songs. I was 1:39:22.280 --> 1:39:24.879 doing a Goodest It's album and I was re recording 1:39:24.960 --> 1:39:27.040 some songs and I got to Missing You and I thought, well, 1:39:27.320 --> 1:39:28.960 I can't do anything else with Missing You that I 1:39:29.000 --> 1:39:32.040 haven't been already. And I thought, well, I'll do with 1:39:32.160 --> 1:39:34.479 youuet who would I like to sing with? And I 1:39:34.600 --> 1:39:39.160 was watching the American Music Channel and Alliston was on 1:39:39.280 --> 1:39:43.639 that with New Favorite when I became aware of them 1:39:44.439 --> 1:39:48.880 and my manager wearing her manager and said, John would 1:39:48.920 --> 1:39:52.639 like you to sing I Missing You? And she said yes, 1:39:53.640 --> 1:39:57.000 Well she said yes. The record was very successful in 1:39:57.120 --> 1:40:00.400 the country world. But you continue to have a connection 1:40:00.479 --> 1:40:07.760 with Allison Ryan. Yeah, we're friends and um yeah, I 1:40:07.800 --> 1:40:12.320 mean we did another done limp so um laid down 1:40:12.400 --> 1:40:16.600 beside me and I was living in Nashville. You know 1:40:16.720 --> 1:40:20.680 we were close. Was it ever a romance? Um? You 1:40:20.760 --> 1:40:26.479 know that would be nice, okay? And then another big 1:40:26.600 --> 1:40:29.320 thing in the movies, you go out with Ringo. What 1:40:29.439 --> 1:40:34.240 you said, one and done. Now, Ringo historically goes out 1:40:34.320 --> 1:40:38.400 with different people. Oh, the band is somewhat solidified in 1:40:38.479 --> 1:40:42.240 the last couple of years. So you got to play 1:40:42.320 --> 1:40:44.800 with Ringo and meet Ringo, which of course is amazing. 1:40:45.520 --> 1:40:48.559 But in the everyday experience of doing it, how did 1:40:48.600 --> 1:40:52.959 you feel? Well? It was tough. You know, it's extremely 1:40:53.040 --> 1:40:55.400 competitive with the All Stars. Everybody's trying to do the 1:40:55.520 --> 1:40:58.320 right thing and shine, I'm just trying to play bassis. 1:40:58.320 --> 1:41:00.960 Shut up. I would have just played bass and not 1:41:01.200 --> 1:41:04.280 some if I could have, because if you look across 1:41:04.320 --> 1:41:07.640 the station there he is a strangoes stuff, you know. 1:41:08.720 --> 1:41:12.400 And it was stressful, you know. I mean, yeah, I 1:41:12.439 --> 1:41:15.680 mean I'm pretty I played through a high standard. But 1:41:16.439 --> 1:41:19.760 he played with Paul McCarthy and so I had to 1:41:19.840 --> 1:41:24.480 go back to playing the base and nothing but respect. 1:41:24.960 --> 1:41:27.479 I mean, how could you have anything? But I was nervous, 1:41:27.640 --> 1:41:31.439 you know, But it was it was it was very demanding. 1:41:31.920 --> 1:41:35.080 It was really demanding. It. I think that the fact 1:41:35.160 --> 1:41:40.320 that there was Paul Carrock, Sheilary, Colin Hay, there's a 1:41:40.400 --> 1:41:45.040 lot of very famous individuals on stage, and I think 1:41:45.120 --> 1:41:47.800 we go there first to play with more musical kind 1:41:47.880 --> 1:41:53.760 of situations. That's what I think. And when did you 1:41:53.840 --> 1:41:57.599 realize you didn't want to do it again? What the ring? 1:41:58.320 --> 1:42:04.640 Yeah they won't. Well that's why I'm asking. So when 1:42:04.680 --> 1:42:06.799 I went through your head, you showed up a rehearsal 1:42:06.920 --> 1:42:12.360 and he said, what the fund did I sign up for? Yeah? Yeah, 1:42:12.600 --> 1:42:15.320 you know it's tough. It's a tough gig. Everybody's like 1:42:15.560 --> 1:42:18.080 joking and everybody's like, you know, I didn't do that. 1:42:18.360 --> 1:42:20.439 It's like getting the funk out, you know, where I 1:42:20.439 --> 1:42:22.360 would stop a song and Sam, I, it's just the 1:42:22.479 --> 1:42:25.639 right note, you know? Am I playing the right note? 1:42:25.680 --> 1:42:27.479 Here in the bottom is this is this isn't the 1:42:27.600 --> 1:42:31.519 right key. People just walk away stuff, And I'm going, 1:42:31.600 --> 1:42:34.160 like Jesus Christ, can we just sit down and him 1:42:34.200 --> 1:42:36.439 through this stuff? But there's the thing about it being 1:42:36.600 --> 1:42:39.840 um low impact. I think there's the thing where you're 1:42:39.840 --> 1:42:43.360 supposed to show up and play made people smile, shakegounds 1:42:43.400 --> 1:42:45.400 and walk off, you know. But I think he's he's 1:42:45.400 --> 1:42:48.400 got a really good cool band now and uh we 1:42:48.640 --> 1:42:51.640 was on a bit of a perfectionist. I would like 1:42:51.800 --> 1:42:56.839 to think that I'm a perfectionist in that situation. Okay, 1:42:56.960 --> 1:43:01.280 going back to the songwriting. You started out doing it yourself, 1:43:01.800 --> 1:43:03.800 but if you look at your credits, there's a lot 1:43:03.840 --> 1:43:07.519 of co writes. Was that something you were pushed into? 1:43:07.720 --> 1:43:10.840 Is something you don't? You know? I found myself. I 1:43:10.920 --> 1:43:13.080 can write by myself standing on my head, but I 1:43:13.120 --> 1:43:15.240 don't really do a good trouble of it. I think that, 1:43:16.640 --> 1:43:20.920 uh is it a d D when you can't concentrate? 1:43:21.240 --> 1:43:24.920 What is what they call a d h D? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, 1:43:25.320 --> 1:43:27.360 I think I've got that. If I have somebody in 1:43:27.439 --> 1:43:30.439 front of me and the only play like two chords, 1:43:30.840 --> 1:43:33.600 and I take everything from that point and run with it, 1:43:33.680 --> 1:43:35.200 do the lyric can write the rest of the song 1:43:35.240 --> 1:43:37.519 of the mountain and the whole thing. As long as 1:43:37.560 --> 1:43:40.639 I have somebody in front of me, I'll write a song. 1:43:41.840 --> 1:43:44.640 It's either that are extreme lessons, you know, and it 1:43:44.680 --> 1:43:48.360 could be that too, But I need a sounding board. 1:43:48.560 --> 1:43:52.439 I need someone to bounce off to entertain. Maybe it's 1:43:52.439 --> 1:43:56.200 a show off too, I don't know. But if somebody 1:43:56.200 --> 1:43:59.920 plays me a minor chord and I play something in 1:44:00.040 --> 1:44:03.600 the base, that isn't necessarily what you would think was 1:44:03.640 --> 1:44:05.960 going to happen between the minor code and the Madge goode. 1:44:06.680 --> 1:44:09.640 I'll suddenly have a song, but I won't get that 1:44:09.840 --> 1:44:12.960 input without the guy playing the minor chord. So it 1:44:13.000 --> 1:44:16.880 would much preferred seven days a week to write a 1:44:16.960 --> 1:44:20.479 song with somebody. Me and Glenn Burnar toll to till 1:44:20.960 --> 1:44:25.519 and write stuff that makes me wonder how we did it. 1:44:26.120 --> 1:44:29.360 But it's like completely spontaneous, and I am best at 1:44:29.400 --> 1:44:33.000 being spontaneous. I keep a lot of notebooks, write down 1:44:33.080 --> 1:44:36.160 phrases all the time. If I'm reading a book, I 1:44:36.280 --> 1:44:38.800 see a passage go by and go that's great. How 1:44:38.920 --> 1:44:41.080 did you think you know? I'm very about words. I 1:44:41.200 --> 1:44:44.000 love them. But when I'm singing and when I'm writing songs, 1:44:44.240 --> 1:44:46.960 a lot of it just happens to the back of 1:44:47.040 --> 1:44:49.640 my mind. I must have made a mental note, or 1:44:49.680 --> 1:44:54.160 I must have keyed into some image that would go 1:44:54.320 --> 1:44:58.960 over another image. But you don't know that you start singing. 1:44:59.040 --> 1:45:01.400 But I get the melody the words at the same time, 1:45:02.479 --> 1:45:05.240 and I have no idea how I do it. I 1:45:05.360 --> 1:45:07.400 can't take any credit for anything I've done there was 1:45:07.439 --> 1:45:09.560 any good, because I'm just making it up as I 1:45:09.640 --> 1:45:12.240 go along. I might take it home and finish it 1:45:12.280 --> 1:45:17.000 and polish it. I mean, sometimes the story songs like 1:45:17.120 --> 1:45:22.920 Bluebird Cafe or Masterpiece of Loneliness. They have real themes. 1:45:23.320 --> 1:45:28.639 And I don't know what's good and what's not anymore 1:45:28.920 --> 1:45:31.960 unless I believe it. And if I believe it, it's good. 1:45:32.720 --> 1:45:36.680 If I don't believe it, it's ships. Well, someone like 1:45:36.840 --> 1:45:39.719 Burton Dick, who played with sticks but lives in New Jersey. 1:45:40.400 --> 1:45:42.040 How do you hook up with all these people you 1:45:42.120 --> 1:45:45.080 meet Bernick? I need Bernick for I needed a guitar 1:45:45.200 --> 1:45:50.320 player when I was in New York and Uh, he'd 1:45:50.320 --> 1:45:52.200 been a fan that he'd actually lived next to us 1:45:52.320 --> 1:45:54.320 me in l A when I was staying with the 1:45:54.400 --> 1:45:57.960 babies and never said alone. But we got introduced. There's 1:45:58.000 --> 1:46:02.040 a great guy, and we started writing songs and we 1:46:02.200 --> 1:46:05.840 wrote Downtown, which is probably one of the most penultimate songs. 1:46:06.080 --> 1:46:10.840 It was just like Downtown. We wrote that on a 1:46:10.880 --> 1:46:14.880 beat offul Steinway at Sony. He had cigarette burns on 1:46:14.960 --> 1:46:17.680 it and he's missing. It's all attitude. And I was 1:46:17.720 --> 1:46:20.360 trying to write a song for true romance. I wrote 1:46:20.360 --> 1:46:24.200 a song with another guy, um Mark Spiral, called in 1:46:24.320 --> 1:46:26.679 Dreams to Go in the movie, but it was true 1:46:26.800 --> 1:46:35.519 romance the song and there's this beautiful irish, wasted lonesome 1:46:35.600 --> 1:46:40.080 East Coast, New York Manhattan thing on this Stein Way. 1:46:40.120 --> 1:46:43.560 It's all otta tune and Glenn's playing these chords and 1:46:43.680 --> 1:46:49.040 I would just jump up and um the engineer with hippocorde, 1:46:49.120 --> 1:46:52.719 that's sing the first line, and then he'd keep playing 1:46:52.800 --> 1:46:55.920 the songs about how about you know the most and 1:46:55.960 --> 1:46:58.719 then I would just shoot out of my seat again. 1:46:59.760 --> 1:47:03.760 You you can find me in the temple ball and 1:47:04.439 --> 1:47:07.840 and it's not making a cheeksil really. Sometimes it doesn't 1:47:07.880 --> 1:47:11.760 come out in one piece, it's just lines. But this 1:47:11.960 --> 1:47:15.120 thing comes out of the mist and I have no idea. 1:47:15.960 --> 1:47:21.799 There's no cleverness to it, there's no guile, there's no talent. 1:47:22.280 --> 1:47:26.479 It's just like completely it just comes out of nowhere. 1:47:27.439 --> 1:47:31.280 But at the same time you're editing, it's such a clear, 1:47:33.439 --> 1:47:36.080 focused way. I mean, I really knew where that song 1:47:36.320 --> 1:47:40.400 was going. And it's about scoring trunks, you know, and 1:47:40.479 --> 1:47:42.240 people think it's about all this sort of stuff, but 1:47:42.320 --> 1:47:45.760 it's a it's a very dark song. But you don't 1:47:45.800 --> 1:47:50.080 know what you've got, so you finished it, okay. So 1:47:50.439 --> 1:47:53.360 the movie has a lot of live shots from the 1:47:53.520 --> 1:47:59.120 present day. How long is this band been together? How 1:47:59.200 --> 1:48:01.439 did you find them because you mentioned earlier they all 1:48:01.520 --> 1:48:05.920 live in different locations. And then sometimes it's acoustic and 1:48:06.040 --> 1:48:09.479 sometimes it's elected. So tell me about all that. Well, 1:48:09.520 --> 1:48:13.000 I met Tim Hogan, the best player in Carmines Italian 1:48:13.120 --> 1:48:18.679 restaurant fifteen years ago. Okay, on Santa Monica Boulevard. Yeah, 1:48:18.720 --> 1:48:21.360 well no, no, no, no, no no no, in Times Square, 1:48:22.000 --> 1:48:27.160 oh that car yeah alright, hey, more than one common 1:48:27.760 --> 1:48:30.519 and uh yeah, And he offered me his coat. He 1:48:30.680 --> 1:48:35.200 was snowing outside and he said, to my coat, hadn't 1:48:35.200 --> 1:48:38.439 got a cold. And we became friends, and he became 1:48:38.520 --> 1:48:42.840 the best player. Uh, and became part of the organization 1:48:42.960 --> 1:48:47.160 and just to stellar human being. And then Mark was 1:48:47.240 --> 1:48:49.960 shouted was working in a guitar shot as a friend 1:48:50.000 --> 1:48:54.240 of Tim's, and we took Mark on. We couldn't get 1:48:54.240 --> 1:48:56.840 a steady guitar players, so I said, okay, let's you know, 1:48:57.479 --> 1:48:59.400 we have to play these shows. Let's give it all 1:48:59.439 --> 1:49:05.240 to Markam Mark. It's given a huge amount big shoes 1:49:05.320 --> 1:49:08.840 to step into. It took him a while, but he 1:49:09.000 --> 1:49:14.400 arrived um in spades. You know, he's a tremendous guzapa 1:49:15.240 --> 1:49:17.720 and and he's he's gone from being a guy that 1:49:17.800 --> 1:49:21.559 works in the guitar shot to a tremendous guitar player. 1:49:22.160 --> 1:49:25.880 And Alan Chiles was in the no Brakes dound that 1:49:26.040 --> 1:49:30.439 you see um at the beginning of the documentary, a 1:49:30.560 --> 1:49:35.639 young Alan childs with Karmene Rojas and Elsli, Tommy Mandel. 1:49:35.840 --> 1:49:38.479 They were all in the North Breaks. But I met 1:49:38.880 --> 1:49:42.639 Alan in Las Vegas a couple of years ago. He said, 1:49:42.640 --> 1:49:44.000 if you ever need a drummer, called me, and I 1:49:44.120 --> 1:49:46.720 called it. So that's it. And some of the days 1:49:46.840 --> 1:49:53.000 we do, like in theisis like storytellers and it's two acoustics, 1:49:53.840 --> 1:49:56.800 electric bass and drums, and you stop the show and 1:49:56.840 --> 1:49:59.040 you do requests, so you talk to the audience. You 1:49:59.160 --> 1:50:04.479 play these keys again, Downtown, Saint Patrick's Day, Masterpiece of Loneliness, 1:50:04.560 --> 1:50:11.960 Bluebird Cafe, in God's Shadow, in Dreams Missing You. It'sn't 1:50:12.120 --> 1:50:14.680 it's good, you know, I mean the songs that you 1:50:14.760 --> 1:50:20.479 can really I know, it's not even singing. You sort 1:50:20.520 --> 1:50:24.240 of like sharing a story and people are like, you know, 1:50:24.800 --> 1:50:27.760 looking at you. Let they're listening to a story. And 1:50:27.840 --> 1:50:29.760 then the other version of the band, this would come 1:50:29.800 --> 1:50:33.759 out two fisted, all electric, and it's it's an entirely 1:50:33.840 --> 1:50:36.880 different anymore. But we do stop in the middle and 1:50:36.920 --> 1:50:42.360 do Bluebird Cafe Acoustic no matter where we are. If 1:50:42.600 --> 1:50:44.479 they're gonna throw a ship, they can throw it. But 1:50:45.280 --> 1:50:49.920 we've tried that this year on to about seven thousand 1:50:50.040 --> 1:50:53.760 people at night and you could hear a pin drop, 1:50:55.560 --> 1:51:00.840 you know. That's that's why how I get out of bed. 1:51:01.000 --> 1:51:04.840 That's because that isn't synthesizers and bullshit and big drums 1:51:04.880 --> 1:51:08.559 and it's like it's a it's a simple acoustic guitar 1:51:08.560 --> 1:51:11.639 and vocal. And if you can get seven eight thousand 1:51:11.680 --> 1:51:14.880 people to go completely quiet and listen to that, then 1:51:14.960 --> 1:51:17.280 you're in the right place at the right time, you know. 1:51:18.400 --> 1:51:20.880 And do you have a manager? You do it all yourself. No, 1:51:21.840 --> 1:51:26.800 me and Tim we have if work comes to me, 1:51:26.840 --> 1:51:30.880 have an Asian and they ring up and sim says johnah, 1:51:30.880 --> 1:51:32.880 go and play this gig for this much. We can 1:51:32.920 --> 1:51:34.599 do that. We can do this gig the next time 1:51:34.600 --> 1:51:37.240 and say yeah, oh no, can we go and do it? 1:51:38.040 --> 1:51:43.600 Who's the agent um Blue Raven? With Blue Raven at 1:51:43.600 --> 1:51:45.160 the moment? So do you ever go to do you 1:51:45.200 --> 1:51:47.040 ever go to them and say, well, you know, I 1:51:47.160 --> 1:51:50.439 want to work from April through June, just book something now, 1:51:51.560 --> 1:51:54.200 it's not like that, you know, you you you can 1:51:54.280 --> 1:51:57.960 get to the point where you're just playing ridiculous places. 1:51:58.080 --> 1:51:59.719 You know, we want to keep it sort of classy. 1:52:00.000 --> 1:52:06.839 Want to play thesis and interesting listening rooms and sheds. 1:52:07.000 --> 1:52:11.280 You know, spent enough time playing out the way places. 1:52:11.360 --> 1:52:13.559 I mean, I want to play like the City Winery 1:52:13.640 --> 1:52:16.280 kind of thing that those kind of gigs are great, 1:52:17.400 --> 1:52:20.479 But they know they can't just go out there and say, okay, 1:52:20.520 --> 1:52:22.200 we've got to book it right through tune in July 1:52:22.280 --> 1:52:26.280 and August. You know, it doesn't work like that. And 1:52:26.400 --> 1:52:30.720 you talked about playing the seven thousand people. How many 1:52:30.880 --> 1:52:33.400 to the time do you go out alone? Where do 1:52:33.439 --> 1:52:36.360 you go out in the package? Um, well that was 1:52:36.400 --> 1:52:39.160 the package. That's Vix Strength fielding men at work. But 1:52:39.280 --> 1:52:41.360 we do a lot of gigs with Neil Gerraldo on 1:52:41.400 --> 1:52:46.960 pap bennettson UM and then we play like thousands seat 1:52:47.120 --> 1:52:52.439 headline maybe more. Uh, you know, it's it's not one 1:52:52.560 --> 1:52:55.599 thing all the time. You can maybe do four gigs 1:52:56.280 --> 1:52:59.000 being the opening act for a band that's really establishing 1:52:59.000 --> 1:53:01.640 your plans to Seventh Town some people, and then you 1:53:01.680 --> 1:53:05.400 can go on the next night and play a headliner. Uh, 1:53:05.680 --> 1:53:08.640 and your pens a fift hundred people and maybe on 1:53:08.720 --> 1:53:13.240 the third night there's a six hundred listening room. It's 1:53:13.280 --> 1:53:15.360 like an art sense. So we can do the unflipped 1:53:15.400 --> 1:53:17.880 thing and you love all that and then you go 1:53:18.000 --> 1:53:20.599 back to the opening for somebody or whatever. You put 1:53:20.640 --> 1:53:23.880 it together. But the idea is to play the best 1:53:23.920 --> 1:53:28.599 places possible and bring it. You know, if you're playing 1:53:29.320 --> 1:53:31.680 so out the word places of God for a bit 1:53:31.720 --> 1:53:33.760 of club, a low club, you know, it's like, man, 1:53:34.479 --> 1:53:36.800 you're supposed to bring it, and you know those kind 1:53:36.840 --> 1:53:42.920 of places you don't want to go there. So do 1:53:43.080 --> 1:53:46.800 you have enough money saved and income that theoretically you 1:53:46.840 --> 1:53:50.000 can stop working or you're working to live? Oh? No, 1:53:50.360 --> 1:53:52.800 I've got money in the bank. And like I said, 1:53:52.840 --> 1:53:57.080 I own my own place at publishing and we're working, 1:53:57.200 --> 1:54:02.680 and I own most of cattle. Like you know, it 1:54:02.840 --> 1:54:07.439 wasn't almost like that. I came back up from really 1:54:07.520 --> 1:54:11.360 being kicked out of the music business. I was. I 1:54:11.479 --> 1:54:15.080 was just stubborn. I wasn't going to go down and 1:54:15.160 --> 1:54:18.080 stay down, my dad. I'm always to write songs to 1:54:18.200 --> 1:54:21.960 sing and here I am. Are you gonna die on 1:54:22.240 --> 1:54:25.640 stage or at some point, I hope no. People keep 1:54:25.720 --> 1:54:29.040 saying there's a great line in Steve Elle's song um 1:54:29.479 --> 1:54:32.400 fort Worth Blues, and he says, you always said the 1:54:32.480 --> 1:54:36.160 highway was your home, but we both know that that 1:54:36.280 --> 1:54:41.200 ain't true. That's a wonderful couple of you know, it's 1:54:41.280 --> 1:54:45.600 just really there are romance of going kicking the bucket 1:54:45.680 --> 1:54:47.720 on the road to me is bullshit. You know, you 1:54:47.760 --> 1:54:50.920 want to be somewhere where you're really happy and look 1:54:51.000 --> 1:54:55.600 back at your life and said, okay, so what would 1:54:55.640 --> 1:54:59.680 it take for you to stop? I'll let you know. 1:55:00.440 --> 1:55:03.720 I think there's a moment, honestly where you put your 1:55:03.760 --> 1:55:05.840 hand up and said, thank you, it's been great tonight, 1:55:06.480 --> 1:55:09.800 and you walk off and yes you might change your clothes. 1:55:10.440 --> 1:55:12.480 You walk out, it's the parking lot, get in the van, 1:55:12.960 --> 1:55:15.600 and in your heart you know that's your last show, 1:55:17.400 --> 1:55:22.160 and I don't want to be around you know. I mean, 1:55:22.200 --> 1:55:26.880 you see some of these pants. You know there's a 1:55:26.920 --> 1:55:29.040 same amount of sex in votes in rock and roll, 1:55:29.600 --> 1:55:31.920 and the only you get. I mean, it's nice, you know, 1:55:32.040 --> 1:55:33.760 to see all the people play, But I think that's 1:55:33.800 --> 1:55:39.360 the point where you know you just should make yourself scarce. 1:55:39.800 --> 1:55:41.680 There's a lot of people went to get on stage. 1:55:42.960 --> 1:55:45.960 So the movie opens on December six. Where can people 1:55:46.080 --> 1:55:49.960 see it? I don't know. Like I said before, I 1:55:50.080 --> 1:55:52.520 had absolutely nothing to do with it. I did the interviews, 1:55:52.920 --> 1:55:55.040 I knew the guy that brew all together, but I 1:55:55.760 --> 1:55:58.680 I've had no input. Somebody told me that the different 1:55:59.520 --> 1:56:03.120 cable's stations it's gonna be on, but I didn't make 1:56:03.160 --> 1:56:07.720 a note of it. Okay, And uh, there's certainly a 1:56:07.800 --> 1:56:12.000 website the hard Way the movie something very similar to that. 1:56:12.080 --> 1:56:14.120 If you google John Waite in the hard Way, you'll 1:56:14.360 --> 1:56:16.200 certainly come right up. And I think it's gonna be 1:56:16.800 --> 1:56:21.880 on demand on multiple platforms. And as I say, the 1:56:21.920 --> 1:56:24.960 movie is excellent, not because I'm blowing smoke, but otherwise 1:56:24.960 --> 1:56:28.160 I wouldn't be talking to you. And it's intriguing. One 1:56:28.280 --> 1:56:31.760 is with whether one is a fan or not. But 1:56:32.760 --> 1:56:34.760 in the back of your mind, do you think that 1:56:34.960 --> 1:56:39.600 this will be a boost for your career? Yeah? I 1:56:39.720 --> 1:56:42.400 think Like I said before, and you called it, how 1:56:42.440 --> 1:56:45.640 do you over think was it? How do you say? Uh, 1:56:47.400 --> 1:56:50.400 what you wrote about it and what you wrote about 1:56:50.560 --> 1:56:55.520 constant so mar of the entertainment business and people getting 1:56:55.520 --> 1:56:59.520 ahead and the ephemeral thing that comes. You know, I 1:56:59.560 --> 1:57:01.680 couldn't have agreed with you more. If I was better 1:57:01.760 --> 1:57:03.920 with words, I would write all that down aside roads, 1:57:04.560 --> 1:57:06.800 I thought it was quite brilliant. And I'm not blowing 1:57:06.840 --> 1:57:09.200 smoky but but I thought, honestly, that's how I see it. 1:57:10.120 --> 1:57:15.360 And I've always had a pretty good fan base. I've 1:57:15.400 --> 1:57:17.880 just been through I mean the shadows, you know. But 1:57:17.960 --> 1:57:20.120 I mean, I'm working a lot, and every time we 1:57:20.200 --> 1:57:23.400 show up, it's like, you know, it's great, but I 1:57:23.440 --> 1:57:30.600 suppose it will um, I don't know, you know, I 1:57:30.960 --> 1:57:33.320 don't worry about anything like that, Bob, I really don't. 1:57:33.360 --> 1:57:35.800 I just sort of like get up, have a goot 1:57:35.840 --> 1:57:38.360 of coffee and start the day. I don't plan ahead, 1:57:38.360 --> 1:57:40.520 and I saraily don't plan ahead moored than six months. 1:57:40.520 --> 1:57:44.800 I have to a big point at the beginning of 1:57:44.880 --> 1:57:49.360 the movie is how difficult you are and it has 1:57:49.440 --> 1:57:54.920 to be your way and it doesn't uh bode well 1:57:55.080 --> 1:58:00.120 for relationships with our business relationships. I'm talking to you now. Oh, 1:58:00.160 --> 1:58:03.360 I don't hear any of that. So he said, we're 1:58:03.400 --> 1:58:08.840 not making We're not making art, you know. I mean, 1:58:08.920 --> 1:58:10.920 if if you were producing me and I had this 1:58:11.080 --> 1:58:13.960 song and I had this music in my head and 1:58:14.080 --> 1:58:16.600 I could hear this sound that I wanted, and I 1:58:16.720 --> 1:58:20.360 knew where the lyrics should go. And you're saying a hi, John, 1:58:20.440 --> 1:58:23.040 nobody uses that word. Use something else. They go like, no, 1:58:23.160 --> 1:58:25.840 it's a beautiful work. You got, like, oh, come on, now, 1:58:26.280 --> 1:58:29.480 you know I go no, and then you know things 1:58:29.560 --> 1:58:31.880 go to the next level. But but that's you know, 1:58:32.720 --> 1:58:34.440 I don't believe in any of that. I think, you know, 1:58:34.480 --> 1:58:37.680 when you produce a record, everything live and let the 1:58:37.800 --> 1:58:41.240 artist have his head. If he's worth going in the studio, 1:58:41.320 --> 1:58:42.920 he's going to deliver the goods. But I don't want 1:58:42.920 --> 1:58:45.960 to be the flavor of the week or or like 1:58:46.080 --> 1:58:48.680 somebody suggests I do a certain kind of song because 1:58:48.760 --> 1:58:51.680 it's like happening now and the kids dig it. I mean, 1:58:52.040 --> 1:58:55.680 I'm not interested. I'm just not And yeah, if that 1:58:55.760 --> 1:58:59.160 makes me difficult, and that's what I am, Well, you're 1:58:59.200 --> 1:59:03.920 having how thin. Seeing the movie, it sounded also the 1:59:04.000 --> 1:59:06.840 way it was portrayed that part of your personality makes 1:59:07.560 --> 1:59:10.800 just everyday relationships difficult. I mean, are you the type 1:59:10.840 --> 1:59:13.640 of person who goes and calls friends, hangs with friends, 1:59:14.080 --> 1:59:16.360 or you're basically in your own head until you go 1:59:16.440 --> 1:59:20.920 out to work. Yeah, um, I think I'm pretty hot. Surrage. 1:59:21.080 --> 1:59:25.480 Sometimes there's a lot going on. I wish there wasn't, 1:59:25.520 --> 1:59:29.960 but I tend to be You know, half of my 1:59:30.120 --> 1:59:33.920 mind is writing a song all the time, always thinking 1:59:33.920 --> 1:59:40.440 about a line from a book, Oh, cowboy music, you know, 1:59:40.760 --> 1:59:43.480 and whatever it is. But half of me is always 1:59:43.520 --> 1:59:48.840 away elsewhere. You know you're happy? Are you happy the 1:59:48.960 --> 1:59:51.920 way that things are? And you'll continue to do your 1:59:52.000 --> 1:59:55.160 gig until you have that moment referenced earlier or in 1:59:55.240 --> 1:59:58.680 the back of your mind. Is there one big goal 1:59:59.000 --> 2:00:01.400 or achievement that you still or a bar that you 2:00:01.480 --> 2:00:06.000 want to reach. I've been doing it all my life. 2:00:06.240 --> 2:00:08.400 I honestly feel like I've been a success at every 2:00:08.480 --> 2:00:10.560 step in my life, even if people were not there 2:00:10.600 --> 2:00:13.320 to witness it. Oh, he didn't sell a million records, 2:00:13.840 --> 2:00:16.840 bout ten thousand records. I've always done what I wanted. 2:00:17.840 --> 2:00:20.520 That's been a success. It really is. I know it 2:00:20.600 --> 2:00:24.360 sounds like a speech, but I've been about the great 2:00:24.480 --> 2:00:29.920 luxury of loving what I do. Oh my life, and 2:00:30.080 --> 2:00:33.040 you can't buy that. And I've had a wonderful life. 2:00:34.000 --> 2:00:37.720 I haven't missed the bills I once, so I believe 2:00:37.760 --> 2:00:42.720 in what I've done all my life. I'm very, very lucky. Well, 2:00:42.760 --> 2:00:45.280 it's been wonderful talking to you. It's you know, you're 2:00:45.400 --> 2:00:48.400 very forthcoming and honest. You don't hold back. You can 2:00:48.480 --> 2:00:51.960 feel the integrity and the motion coming through. So John, 2:00:52.240 --> 2:00:54.000 I want to thank you so much for taking the time. 2:00:54.080 --> 2:00:57.840 Thank you, Bob. It's um, it's it's um. Since you 2:00:57.960 --> 2:01:03.879 reviewed the documentary, UM, we've had like suonomi of interest 2:01:04.320 --> 2:01:08.560 because you have such credibility. But uh, doing the interview 2:01:09.200 --> 2:01:13.280 and reading your review, UM, I think we're pretty much 2:01:13.360 --> 2:01:16.440 alike mind and it's a pleasure for me to talk 2:01:16.520 --> 2:01:20.480 to you too. Well, I'm smiling and my shinees makes 2:01:20.520 --> 2:01:24.600 it hard to uh come back. But thank you so 2:01:24.760 --> 2:01:30.080 much for that. God bless you. Thanks for everyone. Until 2:01:30.160 --> 2:01:32.360 next time. This is Bob left Steps