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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to Bob Left That's podcast. My

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Speaker 1: guest today is John Weet, who has a new documentary

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Speaker 1: which will be released on December six. John, good to

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Speaker 1: have you on the podcast. Why now, Why a documentary? Uh?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. It just happened. I was stiving to

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Speaker 1: an old friend of mine in Poland the Black Lives

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Speaker 1: Matter protests that that turned into a riot and they

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Speaker 1: were burning potland and he lived up there and I

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Speaker 1: I called him up to see if it was all right.

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Speaker 1: And we got talking and he said, you know, you've

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Speaker 1: got such an interesting life and history and you're still

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Speaker 1: out there doing it. This is making a fabulous movie,

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Speaker 1: you know. And I said, well, you know, that's so

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Speaker 1: very well. But who would want to make it? You know?

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Speaker 1: And he called me back a month later with the

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Speaker 1: backing and yeah, I just fell into it. I did.

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Speaker 1: I just fell into it. It just it wasn't planned.

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Speaker 1: It just happened. So how much money did it take

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Speaker 1: to make the movie? I have no idea, you see, Um,

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Speaker 1: I know it's a consumerable amount. It's like a full

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Speaker 1: budget documentary. But I had nothing to do with any

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Speaker 1: of the personnel or the choices of footage. I just

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Speaker 1: showed up for the interviews. Uh. It was simplicit in

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Speaker 1: the deal that I I wouldn't ask to see anything

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Speaker 1: before it was finished. I didn't want to have any

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Speaker 1: kind of input on a on what it looked like.

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Speaker 1: If it's going to be a documentary, and it's certainly's

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Speaker 1: objective viewpoint of view, um or subjective. I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: what it is. That's a that's a documentary. And I

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Speaker 1: had enough for expect for the medium, so no, I

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Speaker 1: thought it would be ridiculous to get involved. You know, Well,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting because, in the light of high deaf cameras

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Speaker 1: on your phone, seemingly every musician has a documentary and uh,

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Speaker 1: but yours is radically different. It's just not an embellishment

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Speaker 1: of your career, really gets down into the nitty gritty

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Speaker 1: of your identity, your struggles. So it's a great watch,

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Speaker 1: even for someone who is not familiar with his career.

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Speaker 1: But since you had no involvement, now that it's finished, yet,

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Speaker 1: what's your assessment. Well, it took me three months to

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Speaker 1: watch it. It sent me a finished company and I

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Speaker 1: just refused to watch it. And then one night I

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Speaker 1: drank about the wine and said to nice tonight, you know,

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Speaker 1: and I watched it and I was kind of dumb struck,

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Speaker 1: and I thought, well, what's that? And then the next

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Speaker 1: day I watched it again, completely sober, and I thought, well,

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Speaker 1: there you go. You know, um, I think it's uh,

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Speaker 1: it isn't like it's like a nonlinear thing. It starts

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Speaker 1: off uh in the present, and bounces back to the babies,

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Speaker 1: and then it moves forward to my parents and he

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Speaker 1: going to art school, my love of Western music as

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Speaker 1: a kid, and then it's sort of it shoots too

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Speaker 1: bad English and then winds up in the present. So uh,

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Speaker 1: it's still of a style that somebody's personality that I

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Speaker 1: find it hard to critique. When he certainly makes a

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Speaker 1: movie about you, you can't really say anything, can you, Bob?

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Speaker 1: If they if they made a documentary in your life, Um,

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Speaker 1: how would you react to that? Well, you know, this

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Speaker 1: is something that's interesting because John Winner, who started an

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Speaker 1: own Rolling Stone, he hired someone to write a book

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Speaker 1: about him, and then he wasn't happy and he wrote

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Speaker 1: his own book, which really undercut his identity because if

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Speaker 1: somebody else who writes it can say, well you have

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Speaker 1: plausible deniability. Yeah, yeah, the memory has us as some

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Speaker 1: really convenient edit points, you know, And I've found that

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Speaker 1: with with the documentaries I've actually watched, Uh, people skip

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Speaker 1: over the dark stuff and it's all promotional, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's the tool to sell more records. It's

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Speaker 1: the tool to promote the artist. And I just said

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Speaker 1: no interest in that. I mean, you know, I uh,

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Speaker 1: you know how often this is happening in a lifetime. Somebody,

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Speaker 1: you know, knock on the door at dawn and you

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Speaker 1: open the door and there's a film crew. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's just the artest thing. I mean, I think anybody

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Speaker 1: outside of the situation with know more about it than me.

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Speaker 1: I just tried to tell the truth and keep it

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Speaker 1: straight first, you know, Okay, having watched the MO movie, Uh,

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Speaker 1: how's your state of mind? The movie was filmed during

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Speaker 1: COVID when you weren't working, and you were not happy

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Speaker 1: about that. It caused tensions in your relationship. Now that

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Speaker 1: you're back on the road, is everything hunky dory or

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Speaker 1: you know, we live in a completely different era. You

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Speaker 1: had great breakthroughs in the MTV era, and it's in

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Speaker 1: the movie where you're a household name around the world.

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Speaker 1: You almost can't leave the you know, go to the supermarket.

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Speaker 1: But what's it like for you today? Uh? What you

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Speaker 1: mean fan wise? After the Well, let's start inside your head.

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Speaker 1: Are you depressed? Are you optimistic? Well no, I'm always optimistic.

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Speaker 1: It's the one thing that's probably kept me up and

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Speaker 1: running is that I always think today it's going to

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Speaker 1: be a great day, and I never even think about it.

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Speaker 1: I believe in it, you know, and uh, you can

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Speaker 1: stumble across something that makes the great or at least

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Speaker 1: the best you can do. UM. I think the pandemic

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Speaker 1: was very difficult for everybody. Relationships, uh, the lot. I mean,

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Speaker 1: when you're sort of locked into a life of um

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Speaker 1: not being able to go outside and connect with people,

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Speaker 1: or being a musician, UM, not being able to transmit

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Speaker 1: all those ideas and have that exchange, it's bound to

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Speaker 1: have a negative effect. I mean, it was very depressing.

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Speaker 1: It's how to look back on it. Interestingly enough, I

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Speaker 1: don't really remember much about it. It's like it's just

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Speaker 1: the same day over and over again. So it was

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Speaker 1: a terrible time, you know. I but I think we

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Speaker 1: came out swinging at the end of it, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think it was it was great to be back.

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Speaker 1: And we haven't stopped working since. We came out early

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Speaker 1: like last July and played a couple of private shows

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Speaker 1: and then we just hit the road and played right

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Speaker 1: through the rest of the year. And this year we

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Speaker 1: started started off making up for the gigs that have

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Speaker 1: been rescheduled, did a complete American tour, went straight from

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Speaker 1: there to Holland, and came back like three weeks ago

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Speaker 1: and played another show in Massachusetts and then we're off again,

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Speaker 1: I mean St. Louis today. So there is something about

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Speaker 1: moving and taking stock and re evaluates he what's going

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Speaker 1: on and where the work is and what least to

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Speaker 1: to be done to move forward. You know, a lot

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Speaker 1: of acts had financial issues, not working, the had overhead,

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Speaker 1: they had bands. Was it a struggle for you or

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Speaker 1: did you have enough in savings? No, I've certainly had

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Speaker 1: nothing in the bank. I've been taken care to stopped

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Speaker 1: by as much many as I can since I got

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Speaker 1: control of my career to make up for lost time.

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Speaker 1: You know. Um. The unfortunate thing, just sort of like

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Speaker 1: the sideline, is that now that Spotify is streaming artist

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Speaker 1: music and paying such a minimal royalty, ya, the artist

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Speaker 1: as usual falls back on working live to make up

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Speaker 1: for that to get through, and with a pandemic that

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Speaker 1: was taken away as well. So a lot of musicians

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Speaker 1: really got hurt in that situation. But I was looking

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Speaker 1: that I had enough royalties coming in and enough in

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Speaker 1: the bank not to worry about it. Okay, when Napster

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Speaker 1: came in and royalty started going down in the earlier

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Speaker 1: part of this century, were you still having a significant

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Speaker 1: payment in recording royalties that fell off? It just maybe

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Speaker 1: by about sevent I mean, at one point, you know,

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Speaker 1: I had so many hits, like with the Babies and

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Speaker 1: with the solo stuff about English and recently you know,

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Speaker 1: with the with the stuff that's getting played on radio.

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Speaker 1: But once uh Spotify came in, that was the end

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Speaker 1: of that. It was just like a piece of Peter

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Speaker 1: Framptons said, if he's gets a million streams, he gets

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Speaker 1: like a hundred dollars. You know, it's an absurd small

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Speaker 1: amount that's been sort of but surely given to the artist. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about all your records. Who owned those records?

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Speaker 1: Obviously your recent solo ones I believe you own, but

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Speaker 1: the stuff on crystalists and stuff with bad English are

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Speaker 1: those still owned by the record company or those owned

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Speaker 1: by you. Well, the baby stuff will always be with

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Speaker 1: Christmas and the first solo. Um, I've got the publishing

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Speaker 1: back on everything forward of that, Uh I have, while

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Speaker 1: I own with the rest of about English about English stuff. Uh,

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Speaker 1: that will come back to me probably this year. I mean,

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Speaker 1: so no letter he comes back to you. I mean

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Speaker 1: I did try and get that. I did. I really

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Speaker 1: did try and get some of it back from Christmas.

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Speaker 1: But uh, it's just technicalsis. You know, there's lawyers involved,

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Speaker 1: and it goes to cool and they have bigger lawyers

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Speaker 1: than I do. Okay, you know you made multiple records

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Speaker 1: with Chrysalis, and the way the game works, many acts

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Speaker 1: sell millions of records, but they still don't get any

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Speaker 1: royalties because the record company says they're still in the red. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Do you happen to know if you're in the red

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Speaker 1: or the black with Chrysalis Um And definitely as far

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Speaker 1: as they say in the red. So there's a point

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Speaker 1: you get with that, we just say keep it. You know,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to get down on that level where

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Speaker 1: it's like, I mean, it's a squabble, you know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's had its head day. We were all young and crazy.

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Speaker 1: Me had careers out of it, and you have to

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Speaker 1: be philosophical about it and say, well, it gave me

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Speaker 1: a name and I was able to go forward from

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Speaker 1: that point and and do very well. So at some

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Speaker 1: point you just don't want to cloud your life with it. Really, well,

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Speaker 1: that's a great philosophy. I wish everybody had that. But

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Speaker 1: needless to say, from when you broke in a mono

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Speaker 1: culture to today, you know, if you're the biggest act

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Speaker 1: in the world from that era and you put out

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Speaker 1: a single, it still gets no traction. So how do

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Speaker 1: you feel about making new music when it's so hard

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Speaker 1: to be noticed? Well, I think honestly, Um, you spend

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Speaker 1: six months right in a record and getting the right musicians,

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Speaker 1: the band and engineer, the right studio. It's very hard

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Speaker 1: work and there's a lot of commitment to it. The

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Speaker 1: songs have to be a really high caliber. You're not

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Speaker 1: messing around things, and you spend all the money like

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Speaker 1: fifty ground or whatever it is, which is a reasonable

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Speaker 1: amount of money to make a great record. If you

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Speaker 1: can't make a great record for fifty ground, there's something

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Speaker 1: wrong with you. And the idea is to do first,

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Speaker 1: second tax and fix things, but not do it like

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Speaker 1: it used to be done, which is like recording every

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Speaker 1: uh instruments separately and all that kind of crap. It's

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Speaker 1: just really and but you put it out and in

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Speaker 1: this kind of day and age, it's only in the

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Speaker 1: spotlight for like a week and then it's gone. And

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Speaker 1: if you don't make records, your fans are kind of

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Speaker 1: annoyed it you for not doing anything new. So um,

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Speaker 1: it's a pleasure to make the albums, and it's a

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Speaker 1: pleasure to play them to the audience. And that you

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Speaker 1: really sell a lot of those albums at gigs, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean nobody really buys CDs anymore, but they people

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Speaker 1: buy them. It shows because there are thousands and thousands

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Speaker 1: and thousands of CDs. It shows. But I think the

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Speaker 1: music business, as that's what we thought it was, just

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Speaker 1: simply doesn't exist anymore. It just does not exist. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you go on the road at merch table, you sell

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Speaker 1: c ds? What else do you sell? And do you

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Speaker 1: personally get behind the merch table and sign it? It's

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Speaker 1: all signed. We do a meet and great. I try

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Speaker 1: and spend time with each person that comes that, I'll

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Speaker 1: just swheel them through. Uh, the very sincere, genuine kind

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Speaker 1: of They always met their effort to meet you. So

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Speaker 1: I've found that I could be quite social and put

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Speaker 1: people at their ease and talk to them for quite

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Speaker 1: a long time. And I can't imagine doing it any

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Speaker 1: other way. If you get behind the merch table, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna get mobbed. Oh it's going to get out of control.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna but everything signed. We have t shirts, CDs, buttons, lyrics,

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Speaker 1: pieces of art, I pen so you can buy all

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Speaker 1: sorts of things. We try and keep the price down.

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Speaker 1: I will say that instead of it being a fifted

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Speaker 1: on a T shirt, it's a twined on a T shirt.

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Speaker 1: Instead of it being a forded on the c D,

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Speaker 1: it's a twined on CD. And I think that's part

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Speaker 1: of the deal with the audience come to see you

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Speaker 1: and they stick with you to thick and thin, and

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to gouge my audience to two make

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Speaker 1: a profit. You know, it makes a profit, but it

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Speaker 1: isn't stupid, you know, but it's enough. So you're talking

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Speaker 1: about these hardcore John Wade bands, Do you actually know

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Speaker 1: some of them? Yeah, you know, over the years. You know,

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Speaker 1: you do see those spaces coming um in the front

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Speaker 1: row and you you know, give him a wink and

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Speaker 1: a smile and say hello. But it really is, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like it's that thing I talked about the documentary

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Speaker 1: about the exchange. It really is. It transcends just going

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Speaker 1: out and playing and you know, being rock and all that,

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Speaker 1: there's something going on with music. You don't write music

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Speaker 1: to put in a vault and nobody here is that

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Speaker 1: you share it. In a perfect world, music really would

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Speaker 1: be free. You know, you can't hire a band, take

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Speaker 1: them out on the road and pay for the hotels

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Speaker 1: and airplane flights and not charged people. But there's a

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Speaker 1: middle ground where you can really bring it to the

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Speaker 1: people and celebrate that thing, and there is a feeling

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Speaker 1: of almost family about it. People show up and travel

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Speaker 1: from all of the world. You know, it's amazing. At

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Speaker 1: least I can do is show up and and share

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Speaker 1: it in a fair way. So prior to the pandemic,

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Speaker 1: going forward, how many days a year do you work, Well,

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Speaker 1: we were doing about seventy two a c days a year.

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Speaker 1: But this year we went to Holland, we did a

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Speaker 1: major American tour. We cliff the first half of the

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Speaker 1: year making up days. I would say we're about seventy

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Speaker 1: now and we have like twenty more days to go,

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Speaker 1: so we're probably about twenty more days ahead. As things are,

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Speaker 1: I think with the documentary coming out, we'll probably do

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Speaker 1: more days. Know, and you know, there are different styles

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Speaker 1: of going on the road based on income. There are

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Speaker 1: people who take private jets, there are people in station wagons,

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Speaker 1: people people and tour busters. How you doing it these days?

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Speaker 1: But we fly in, we're all flying from different places

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Speaker 1: and we meet at the airport. There's a van. Tim

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Speaker 1: runs off against the van. He picks us all up.

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Speaker 1: We thought the guitars in the back, goes to the

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Speaker 1: hotel or find some Indian food, then goes to the hotel.

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Speaker 1: We drive as much as we can. Everybody has to fly.

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Speaker 1: Flying in the airport and security just kills the vibe

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Speaker 1: of being out there. So we drive and if it's

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Speaker 1: a five hour drive, we'll leave after the show and

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Speaker 1: knock a couple of hours out and stay in a

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Speaker 1: hotel on the highway and then wake up, only get

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Speaker 1: back in the van and tracks the next game. It's

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Speaker 1: it's low impact. I think We've got it down to

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Speaker 1: a science. I really do. Um, everybody gets on, there's

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Speaker 1: always jokes, you know, everybody's sort of knows what to do.

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Speaker 1: So it's the best it can be. It's really, Uh,

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Speaker 1: of all the touring I've done, this has been the easiest,

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Speaker 1: and in some ways it's open to the most things

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Speaker 1: going wrong. But we we just seem to sort of

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Speaker 1: like roll with the punches. There's a movie Paul Simon made,

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Speaker 1: I believe it was One Trick Pony and they're these

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Speaker 1: seems driving in the van where they're playing games like

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Speaker 1: Dead Rock Stars, et cetera. When you're in the van,

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Speaker 1: is their conversation or is everybody in their own world? Um? Well,

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Speaker 1: I hope they're not gonna play Dead brook Star because

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Speaker 1: fairly soon it's gonna be me. Uh let me see

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Speaker 1: no we we you know, it stunded off like a

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Speaker 1: lot of chassis, you know, and then we were playing

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Speaker 1: like Bill Evans, which feel like Bill Evans. And then

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Speaker 1: then it was Ell Fitzgerald and it was kind of like,

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Speaker 1: you know, free, and then it got more obscure, and

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Speaker 1: when it's cream and a bounced that we love. And

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Speaker 1: now everybody's start of reading the book or sleeping. You know.

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Speaker 1: I think there's a kind of nervous energy where you're

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Speaker 1: trying to communicate all the time, and that can get

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Speaker 1: in the way of the communication later on in the day.

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Speaker 1: I think if you if you can keep in your

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Speaker 1: own space mentally, you're gonna go to offer when you

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Speaker 1: actually get into that musical conversation on stage. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: let's assume you do a gig you end at eleven o'clock. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: What people don't realize is a musician is really wired

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Speaker 1: after that because you've given it all. You're all So

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Speaker 1: let's say it's a drive. So how long after the

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Speaker 1: gig are you gonna get into the van? And how

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Speaker 1: long before you personally can come down from the gig? Well,

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Speaker 1: that's you know, the adrenaline. Being a singer, me and

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Speaker 1: the drummer have the hardest gigs because it's a very aerobic,

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Speaker 1: kind of physically demanding thing. Yea, how it's going like

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Speaker 1: a like a steam house. You come off stage, you

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Speaker 1: shake hounds, people, signs, some stuff, get in the valan

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Speaker 1: drive and you can still when you get to the hotel,

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Speaker 1: it's a strange room. You know, you check into a

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Speaker 1: different world. Um you can be awake till three in

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Speaker 1: the morning. You know, it's just the way it is.

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Speaker 1: I listened to audiobooks a lot. Uh. You can't take

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Speaker 1: anything to help your sleep because it's gonna affect your vocals.

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Speaker 1: You know, it really gets in the way of performance.

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Speaker 1: So you really can't um use anything to to knock

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Speaker 1: you out. But audiobooks work, you know, they really do you.

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Speaker 1: The moment you're in the book, you're asleep. Okay, since

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Speaker 1: you're a connoisseury, give me two good audio books that

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Speaker 1: you can recommend. Um. Well, I was listening to George Simono.

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Speaker 1: Um uh, the Magrade books, the French Detective they're very,

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Speaker 1: very good and they're a different worlder in France. And

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Speaker 1: the John Nesba Harry Hole Detective books that incredibly well written.

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Speaker 1: And uh, you know Harry Hole, I mean you just

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Speaker 1: kind of go with it's strategic, but it's very agergic.

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Speaker 1: But you know, the French Revolution not getting you get

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Speaker 1: into that young Stalin. You know these you know, it's

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Speaker 1: anything that's gonna take your mind away from where you are.

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Speaker 1: The further away from where you are, it's gonna it's

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Speaker 1: gonna open that door. And you're gonna crash. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's great. Okay, let's be very specific, gig games to

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Speaker 1: the leven. What time do you get the hotel on

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Speaker 1: the road. Well, it could be if we're staying in

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Speaker 1: the neighborhood within an hour, but if if you if

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Speaker 1: you have six hundred miles to go. He generally just

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Speaker 1: pounded the van and drive for three hours, like I said,

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Speaker 1: crashing in a hotel on the way, a holiday inn,

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Speaker 1: and get up the next stage and finish the drive.

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Speaker 1: But it's good, you know. I mean, what else you

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Speaker 1: gonna do? You're gonna go hang out? I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's not you don't want to party do it? And

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Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. They haven't been really younger.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't work. I mean, I don't know how the

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Speaker 1: hell we got through some of that stuff when we

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Speaker 1: were kids, because nobody got any sleep and it was

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Speaker 1: just impossible. But it was romantic and we all loved it,

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Speaker 1: you know. But I think as you get older, the

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Speaker 1: work is absolutely the first thing on the menu. The

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Speaker 1: good time thing comes to maybe third. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's enough of a good time

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Speaker 1: to rip out it with a great show. Okay, but

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Speaker 1: do you end up getting enough sleep? Now? Never? But

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Speaker 1: you're running on empty. You know. The one thing, the

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Speaker 1: two things on the road that you need more than

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Speaker 1: anything is sleep and coffee, and the two opposite ends

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Speaker 1: of of what it takes to get through. But we

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Speaker 1: change during coffee, you know, we um coffee is just

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Speaker 1: the thing. We just thought coffee up and you'd be surprised,

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Speaker 1: you know, you could be. You know, sometimes to make

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Speaker 1: it work, you do four if I gigs in a row,

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Speaker 1: and on the fifth gig, it's like, Holy Christ, you know,

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Speaker 1: how are you gonna pull this off? You know? And

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Speaker 1: your voice is scratching, and you walk out there and

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Speaker 1: within ten seconds everything's in focus. You have all the

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Speaker 1: energy in the world. The audience give you all this

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Speaker 1: stuff and you immediately give it back to the audience

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Speaker 1: and aware you go and it could be the best

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Speaker 1: show you're gonna play off the five. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: always that thing you walk out from the moment you

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Speaker 1: leave the wings to walking towards the microphone too, holding

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Speaker 1: the microphone, plugging in the guitar. That something is transformative

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Speaker 1: in those twenty paces and you just you're in flight,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's it's why you can. Let's say you

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Speaker 1: do a run, a date and you fly home. How

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Speaker 1: long does it take you to calm down from those dates?

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Speaker 1: That's that's a good one. Um, yeah, that's a rough one.

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Speaker 1: Know I was younger, it was almost impossible. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: come back from a baby's too, and I'd just rattle,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'd be looking for things to do, and

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Speaker 1: at night it would be just terrible. And you kind

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Speaker 1: of sitting and watch TV. These days on the way

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Speaker 1: back from the airport. Uh, me and my girl probably

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Speaker 1: go and get a lot of Indian food and you know,

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Speaker 1: eat a gigantic amount of food and have a beer maybe,

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Speaker 1: and that seems to calm things down. I mean at

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Speaker 1: some point, you know, you have to. You learn, really,

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Speaker 1: you learn how to step back, you know. Okay, you

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Speaker 1: live in Santa Monica, I do. Yeah, So where's good

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Speaker 1: Indian food that you get? Uh there's one on Pico

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Speaker 1: There's I think India's other. It's like really just a

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Speaker 1: small hideaway in a strip mall. But the great people,

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Speaker 1: the seeks, the chef is were like a beautiful, bright

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Speaker 1: yellow turban and stuff and that the nice people I know.

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Speaker 1: But you know, you could. You can really fast good

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Speaker 1: stuff and in the in the Sana Monica area, that's

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Speaker 1: a very good Indian restaurants. Okay, do you own your

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00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 1: own home Combomidium Red? Yeah? How long? How long did

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Speaker 1: you buy? By? About twenty years ago? Good investment? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know, I know, I was. I was living in

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Speaker 1: New York City, which is probably home, but I've been

405
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Speaker 1: there quite a long time, living on Madison Avenue. And

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Speaker 1: I had a record coming out. My manager was living

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Speaker 1: in l A. And I thought, well, I'm going and

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Speaker 1: spend a year in l A. And I went on

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Speaker 1: tour and for some strange reasons made a lot of money,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, what am I gonna do with

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Speaker 1: all this money? You know, and being someone that's seen

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Speaker 1: the bank account go down to you know, in the red,

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Speaker 1: I had enough sense to buy something. So I bought

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Speaker 1: this really beautiful condo for the going right, which was

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Speaker 1: pretty affordable, and you know, yeah, I own it now.

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Speaker 1: One element of the movie is this girlfriend you have

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Speaker 1: and she says that you've known each other the better

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Speaker 1: part of twenty years, but you just started to live together.

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Speaker 1: What's the back story there? Well, we met um um

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Speaker 1: walking through Central Park, she was on a soap opera

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Speaker 1: called The City Janie Allen, and that she was walking

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Speaker 1: west and I was walking east, and she asked me

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Speaker 1: how to get out of the park because Central Park

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Speaker 1: in the middle of it. It's like an obstunalely illusion.

425
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 1: It sort of makes you think you're going in one day,

426
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: actual well you're not. It's very cleverly laid out. And

427
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: you know, we were on and off again for years

428
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,679
Speaker 1: and years and years, and when I moved to Santa Monica,

429
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 1: I was I was on the bike path going south. No,

430
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 1: she was going to south and I was going north,

431
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 1: and we sort of almost bumped into each other. So

432
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: it's kind of like it's like one of those you know,

433
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: it's a Tom Hanks movie, all you know, rock and roll.

434
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: But she liked the idea that you that you said

435
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 1: she was well endowed. She's just a very skinny do

436
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:26,439
Speaker 1: better being better. But okay, I have to ask because

437
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 1: the movie was shot during the pandemic, and there are

438
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 1: a couple of moments where she's expressing tension in the

439
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,959
Speaker 1: relationship and frustration that you've internalized because you can't go

440
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 1: on the road. Now that you're back on the road,

441
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 1: how you getting along well with trying? I think with

442
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: every every relationship, it never stops. You know, you're trying

443
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: all the time. Uh, there's part of me, to be

444
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 1: really honest, there's a solitary kind of first, which is

445
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: probably why I lived in New York City for so

446
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 1: long and loved it. Is that you can just come

447
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 1: and go and I'm always thinking about something of reading

448
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 1: a book. You know, I can be further distant. So

449
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: we always have to work on me being distant. But

450
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 1: we're still together, you know. Okay, So you're a creative person.

451
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 1: You know. It's what people don't realize. It's the very

452
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 1: outgoing extroverts who are the businesspeople, and the introverts are

453
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 1: the artists. And it's a very different mentality even though

454
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 1: they intersect. So but in music one has to network

455
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 1: and work it. So how do you get those two

456
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: sides your personality to work. One wants to be at home, internalized,

457
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 1: being creative. The other one has to go out, get

458
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: a job, get a band. Ether. Yeah. Yeah, but it's

459
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 1: like I said before, but it's like you don't write

460
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 1: music to keep it to yourself. Um. Alison Krauss was

461
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: told me we were both shy people. I was very

462
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: shy as a kid, cripplingly shy, and I was a

463
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: base player all basically as a kind of like that.

464
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: But Allison Cross says she had to overcome a shyness

465
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: to do what she loved the most. And I think

466
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 1: that person that's kind of introverted or introspective is the

467
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 1: word that writes that stuff, that performs those songs. Um,

468
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: you can't just keep it yourself at some point, you have.

469
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 1: The whole point of music, of art is to share something.

470
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: It's and you know, when I was in the Babies,

471
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 1: I mean I didn't want to be sense of stage.

472
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: I didn't want to be the singer. I was the

473
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: only guy that could do it. So I put it

474
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: all to once side said come on then now or never,

475
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 1: you know, and I stepped into that persona and then

476
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: it became easier and easier. And it's like I said

477
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: about the meet and Greed. I can walk into a

478
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: room full of people and I think, honestly put them

479
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: at their ease almost immediately. And I think it's a

480
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: sincere thing to it. It's not like something you learn.

481
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 1: It's I think I'm naturally friendly and I and I

482
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: respect people, and I want them to have a great

483
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: time when they come and see me play. If I

484
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 1: can spend fifteen minutes to our nestility and it turns

485
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: the world around. I mean, what a joke, you know,

486
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 1: as answer the bird and said, you know what a jump?

487
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: I make people happy. And some of the songs are

488
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: desperate and they're dark, and they're not something you want

489
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 1: to listen to if you want to. You know, part

490
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: of your brands up as people relate, you know. I

491
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: think we're all going through the same things as we

492
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: get older, and I think there's a conversation going on

493
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 1: between the audience and the artist, and it's it's a

494
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: worthwhile conversation. Okay, let's talk a little bit more about

495
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: your personality. Hypothetically, I call you John, We're going to

496
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: a party. There's gonna be fifty people there, come along.

497
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: Are you going to say? Give me the address? You're

498
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: gonna say? I don't really, I just know I wouldn't go.

499
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: I really wouldn't. Michelle Peiffer said once that she when

500
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: she got invited to parties, she'd wind up in the

501
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 1: garden playing with the dog, you know, And I thought

502
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: that was very endearing. But I'm like that. I mean,

503
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: I like people, but I don't have to go out

504
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: and hang around in Boston meet people and sort of

505
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 1: you know, I I really value the time by myself.

506
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: I read a lot, and I pin and I write

507
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: a lot, and I'd like to keep the two worlds

508
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: kind of separate. I mean, once you're on the road

509
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: with the band, you know, it's Camaraderie's is a lot

510
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: of fun, and then there's the show and all the

511
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: people you meet. It's a very positive thing. But I

512
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: need to go back into my roots to recharge. I

513
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: can't stay in the spotlight too long. So let's say

514
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 1: you're in your house and you're in a room and

515
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: you're painting or something and your girlfriend interrupts you. Are

516
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: you cool with that? Or you're saying no, no, I'm

517
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: in my zone. You got no no, no, no, I'm not.

518
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: But it's it's I will be looking for something to do.

519
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: That's that's kind of I've just recently started to write stories,

520
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 1: like short stories, and I've kind of got a knack

521
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 1: for it. I just ran off something that was like

522
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: just on a computer, just tapping out the words, and

523
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: these things are not like, um, it isn't like I'm

524
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: a boy genius. It's just what I do in my

525
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: often time. Some people watch TV. I don't. I can't

526
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: watch TV. I can watch a movie, but I can't

527
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: watch I just I'm not good at taking time off

528
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: listen doing something. So you talked about wanting to share

529
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: your art. Now that you're writing these short stories, are

530
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: you looking to share those? Well? I would like to

531
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 1: get better. I dashed up this five piece UM show

532
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: story about a guy looking for his brother and he

533
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: goes on a bender and so drinks hisself into the floor,

534
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 1: gets on the d yet ferry to France, gist and

535
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: knife fight with two apaches. The calling in France, uh

536
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: the street because he gets killed. Um And it's a

537
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: five part story, you know. I read reread it again

538
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: two weeks ago, and it's all sorts of editing. And

539
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: at first I thought I've stumbled across some rare talent,

540
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: you know, But I have nothing but respect for writers.

541
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: That's a whole different thing. That's the command I mean

542
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 1: writing songs is you have the chords behind it too,

543
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: to color the words. If you if you say a

544
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: certain word like trend and you play in a major

545
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: it's a beat. It's a train, you know, train tran

546
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: If you play an air minor, the train could be

547
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 1: going to hell, you know, it's like that. That's the different.

548
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 1: There's a lot of things in play. But just to

549
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: write this is why I'll never do a memoir. I

550
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: could never do it. I could never get that right. Okay,

551
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: let's just go back for a second to being on

552
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 1: the road. Um, did you ever have a time being

553
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 1: on the road using drugs and alcohol to calm down

554
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: from the geleration of the show? Yeah? And did it

555
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: ever get into a territory that you look back now

556
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: and say, what the hell was I doing? Or was

557
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: it always under control? No? I think on the road

558
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: if you start doing that kind of stuff. I mean

559
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 1: we're talking about cocaineously, but I mean if you in

560
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 1: the old days, it would be a couple of lines

561
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: of glow and people would do it. They would have

562
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: a shot of brandy or whatever, go to a club,

563
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: get up and sing with the band. Anything at all

564
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 1: could happen after that, and you would work up with

565
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: a hangover after travels for the next gig. And if

566
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: the band is any good and you have any sense that, oh,

567
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: the other three or four guys are gonna grab you

568
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: by the back of the color and stay knock it off.

569
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 1: This is how the lives too. You know. If you

570
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 1: start self destruct, usually get bounced out of the band.

571
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: It happens in a lot people drink themselves to death,

572
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: and it's the time off that's the problem. Because you

573
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:10,399
Speaker 1: looked at the film Disvoid with something that's electrifying, you know. Well,

574
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: that is one serious moment in the movie where uh,

575
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 1: there's an altercation with the guitarist who's ultimately fired. So

576
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 1: give us a little bit more on that. Well, his

577
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 1: personality was flamboyant to say the least, and uh, I'm

578
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 1: sort of working class and he was very much up

579
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 1: a middle class and had a whole different take on

580
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: what he was there for. And he barely spoke to me.

581
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: I mean, I tried to write songs of him, you know,

582
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: tried to buy maturing, you know, but he had made

583
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: his mind up that I was the competition of something

584
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 1: and I, just like I said before, I didn't even

585
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: want to be in the center of the stage. But

586
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 1: it all came to a head on one of the

587
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 1: gigs when he smashed the guitar and screamed funk off

588
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: at the audience, and we just like looked at each other,

589
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: like we have no idea, at what point? How far

590
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: it's been so bad? For so long? I actually remember

591
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: having a glass of grand Mania at the end of

592
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: this table and smoking a cigarette. I mean, I remember thinking,

593
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 1: just another day, you know, it's just what goes on.

594
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: But it starts to get wilder and wilder, and by

595
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 1: the time we got on the bus, he was in

596
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 1: full meltdown. And in the movie it, you know, we

597
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,720
Speaker 1: talked about finding stuff, but there was so much money

598
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: riding on the band and investment, not only from the

599
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 1: business spent, but from all of us, the hardship we've

600
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 1: been through to get that far. And then one guy

601
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 1: is trying to actually like, you know, really seriously injury

602
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 1: with an instrument. You know, it's like kind of like, wow,

603
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 1: know what is that? I mean, what is this bound

604
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 1: worth to me? You know, I don't want to go

605
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 1: through life with no eyesight. I don't want to you know,

606
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: maybe bleed to death on the floor because he's going

607
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: to broken ball. But it's the point where you look

608
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: at it, you like, Jesus Christ, ma'am, how do we

609
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 1: get to this. We're all trying to get to the

610
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 1: next level, and you're trying to kill me. I mean,

611
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 1: I don't know what to say to that, you know,

612
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 1: because I mean it's not something I enjoyed talking about.

613
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 1: It's still a mystery to me that I put up

614
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 1: with it for so long. But it did explode. And

615
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 1: when you fired him, what did he say? Oh, he

616
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 1: thinks that he was like the record company fighting and

617
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 1: but I mean that's like saying I didn't try and

618
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 1: funk you up at the bottom. It's the record company.

619
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 1: Don't like which that unreality thing comes into it, where

620
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 1: you think you're really dealing with somebody that's got a

621
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 1: different take on absolutely everything. You know, he was incensed,

622
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 1: but that should show you where he was. I mean,

623
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,479
Speaker 1: at what point do you really try and mess someone

624
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 1: up with the broken body? Have you ever encountered him since? No,

625
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 1: he's he goes off on the internet and he's like,

626
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 1: you know, I'm a star, You're not all this kind

627
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 1: of crap, And I just know at some point you

628
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 1: just go, I did the best for you. I really

629
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 1: did know pret up with that for years and years,

630
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 1: and that's your answer to me. So what do I

631
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:34,399
Speaker 1: do Okay, you grow up in northwest England. What's that like? Oh,

632
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 1: it's beautiful. Lancaster is a castle and our school that

633
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: was built that I went to to be it and

634
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 1: our school as like glass roofs for life class and

635
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: print rooms. It's not like that anymore. It's some sort

636
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: of building for different things tourist board. It's a very

637
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: very antiquated old city with the cobbled streets and houses

638
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 1: from the thirteenth century at the priory church next to

639
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,279
Speaker 1: the castle, the foundations for a thousand years old and

640
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 1: it's laid out really beautifully. It's like a really incredibly strange,

641
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 1: very very British thing started about fields and we had

642
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 1: a university come about thirty five years ago and it's

643
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: it's taken over the town, so it's it's kind of

644
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 1: changed quite a long but Lancaster really is something. I

645
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 1: go back there as much as I can. And how

646
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: did your family end up there? Oh? They were born there.

647
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, in England could go back five

648
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,800
Speaker 1: hundred years. Do you know how many generations your family

649
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: was there? Um? Well, my my father's mother h her

650
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: family Um. In the Doomsday book, that's King John's Uh,

651
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 1: account of who owns what where the farm belongs to it,

652
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 1: you know, Um, they we call AGM so they go

653
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 1: back that they're like York, and that my mom is Lancashire,

654
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 1: and there's Irish blood in me somewhere, um from my

655
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 1: grandmother's mother. And there's some Maltese but apparently from a

656
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: generation or two before that. But it's pretty much Church

657
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: of England straight on, you know. I mean everybody comes

658
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,800
Speaker 1: from somewhere in Britain. It's like you know, it's it's Celtic,

659
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 1: or it's Norman, or it's you know, angloss action. And

660
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: what did your parents do for a living? Well, my

661
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 1: mom was a nurse that the piano could tap pants,

662
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 1: all that kind of thing. She was great, she still is,

663
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: she's ninety seven. My dad he was a mechanic, but

664
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 1: there's also a chess player and extremely well right. He

665
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 1: was supposed to be the most well read man in Lancaster.

666
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 1: Also didact know because from the war camp you couldn't

667
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: go to university. But I think if the war hadn't happened,

668
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,799
Speaker 1: he would have gone to university. Was he was an

669
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 1: absolutely incredible of the books and very smart man. And

670
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,319
Speaker 1: how many kids in the family. I have a brother

671
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: called Joe. He was a really, really great guitar player

672
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 1: who had learned an enormous amount from now he's all,

673
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 1: he's all, he's four years older than me. Okay, So

674
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 1: you start going to school. What kind of kid are you?

675
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 1: Were you like the life of the party had outcast,

676
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: just one rob. I was pretty popular. I really was

677
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 1: a popular kid. You know that the bullies would always

678
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,280
Speaker 1: come around and give you a really bad time, especially

679
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: when he got about fifteen. You know, I had long hand,

680
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 1: I dressed differently, and I didn't fit in at school,

681
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 1: but the girls like me, and I had a lot

682
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 1: of friends, you know. I would say I was a

683
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 1: really popular kid. I was looking back and it was

684
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: really wonderful, you know, but there's always those bastards in

685
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: the corner that I want to show you what'swa and

686
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 1: I took it very hard in the last couple of years.

687
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 1: It was just rough. Good student, bad student. Did knew

688
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 1: anything I couldn't. My Matthew is almost nonexistent. I had dyslexia,

689
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:18,320
Speaker 1: so my bees and bees were backwards, which is ironic

690
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 1: being a lyricist, you know. But I love to read.

691
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 1: I love literature and I lived out, so they let

692
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 1: me just do art classes for my final year to

693
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: build up a portfolio so I could gainst our school,

694
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: which is very kind of it really was because I

695
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 1: really was the odd man out of school. I was

696
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 1: kind of the bohemian kid. But it was great and

697
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 1: like I said, I was kind of popular, so uh

698
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 1: you know, although there was a couple of moments of

699
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 1: extreme craziness with a couple of the really big kids,

700
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: I mean I got through it pretty well. Really. Okay,

701
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: so you're in the UK where the Beatles break a

702
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 1: couple of years earlier. Were you a big fee of

703
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 1: music before that or was it? So how did you

704
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 1: get into it? Well? Yeah, you would just see a

705
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 1: cowboy music, uh you know Marster Robbins trilled fighter bellas,

706
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 1: uh couldn't fight a bellas and trail songs. That was

707
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 1: a big album and I'd hear in occasionally on the

708
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,319
Speaker 1: radio or in stores. We didn't have a record play

709
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:25,359
Speaker 1: we couldn't afford on, but my my cousin Carol at

710
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:29,280
Speaker 1: a radio gram and some records that she had Brenda

711
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:33,320
Speaker 1: Lee Everybody Loves Me. But you remember hearing that was

712
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 1: about six and falling in love with Brenda Lee. But

713
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 1: it was a little country in Americana, but specifically Western songs.

714
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 1: I mean, Ghost Riders in the sky Man, you know,

715
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 1: it's that the barrettone guitar and cowboys. You know, he

716
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 1: just got through being a kid listening to you know,

717
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: David Crockett and stuff, and then it became the sexy

718
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: and things. You start to inch forward into being an

719
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,399
Speaker 1: older kid, and you'd see the symbol some and there

720
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 1: was nothing more important than America when you're like five,

721
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 1: and it's, like I said, Davy Crockett, Cowboys and Indians

722
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 1: and then this music that could hear every once in

723
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 1: a while, and that led straight into the Beatles, and

724
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 1: from that point on there was absolutely no question about

725
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 1: what I would do. Really, So how did you first

726
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 1: hear the Beatles? Into what degree were you a fan

727
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 1: of the Beatles? Well, I remember, um, I remember, I

728
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: must have been about eight, but I remember watching this

729
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 1: TV show and they came on and they played Love

730
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,360
Speaker 1: Me Do, And then the next week I think it

731
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 1: came back and did Please Please Me? But I saw

732
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 1: it on Granada Television. We lived in a tiny cottage

733
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 1: that first into the countryside. If you can imagine like

734
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,840
Speaker 1: some little kid watching the Beatles in this cottage with

735
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 1: the trees outside in the fields. I mean, he said,

736
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a it's a strange picture. But

737
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 1: it was like the Northwest. They came from Liverpool, which

738
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,359
Speaker 1: is only set in miles of Lancaster, and they were

739
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 1: the most different thing you've ever seen in the world.

740
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: But the sound of it itself, the sound was incredible

741
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 1: and the songs were you know, as we all know,

742
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 1: and it took us along with it. Uh. The next

743
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 1: seven years were like um, I mean, it was like

744
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 1: being given something. Every album that came out you couldn't

745
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 1: wait to hear it, and everything you heard made your

746
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 1: hairstand the band, I mean it was the most incredible thing.

747
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 1: And it was working class, which was really something you'd

748
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 1: never really seen that before. Hardcore, working class, black and

749
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: white Liverpool Lean and the best thing you're going to

750
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 1: hear for the next fifty years. You know, you know,

751
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 1: I only have an American perspective. The Beatles came, and

752
00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:00,360
Speaker 1: then there was so called British invasion, which was reething,

753
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,720
Speaker 1: you know, hard edged on one level, like the Stones,

754
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: and then people who really weren't rockers like Freddie and

755
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 1: the Dreamers. On the other hand, so how do you

756
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 1: do you do? So? Were you a fan of all

757
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 1: those acts or was it more like, you know, no,

758
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 1: I just remember the other day, you know, people asking

759
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 1: me these questions. But I and I you go, like, yeah,

760
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 1: the Beatles, yeah, you know, you know, go st yeah,

761
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 1: you know. But I remember having a Pretty Things EP

762
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 1: with Don't Bring Me Down, Big Boss Man. Uh right,

763
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 1: last week City, I think it was on there. But

764
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 1: I remember having that EP. And I was only eight,

765
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 1: and I haven't got a record player, and my mom

766
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: would send me down to my grandmothers on a Friday

767
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: to visit, you know, and um, I'd say the CP

768
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,919
Speaker 1: and I'm playing the Pretty Things at eight, So I

769
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 1: was probably heading towards the Yardbirds and Free and the

770
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:10,280
Speaker 1: Jeff Bett Group and and all the and Jimmy Andrews,

771
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:12,960
Speaker 1: you know, I mean Cheese and but all those acts,

772
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: you know, were they were more hardcore, but more importantly,

773
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 1: we were all inspired by African American music, blues and soul.

774
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 1: And the really fascinating part about the whole thing is

775
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 1: as I was singing as a kid, I was singing

776
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 1: in a blue style. I didn't learn that from anybody.

777
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: I didn't know about Muddy Water still as about fifteen.

778
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:36,479
Speaker 1: You know, I knew about Hunk Williams, but that isn't

779
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 1: blue singing. But I sang in this and I phrased

780
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: in exactly the same way as I do now. I

781
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 1: didn't learn how to sing. I've always sounded like this,

782
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: and it's a mystery to me to know where that

783
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 1: comes from. But maybe it's just something you're born with.

784
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 1: And maybe I did hear something that was like just

785
00:46:53,560 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 1: it all came from black music. I don't know. Okay,

786
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 1: at what point did you learn how to play an instrument?

787
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:09,319
Speaker 1: And then how did you end up on the base?

788
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 1: My brother had a telecaster, the first telecaster in the Northwest, really,

789
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 1: he got it on on payments, and I was playing gigs.

790
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,799
Speaker 1: It was a really good guitar player, still is, and

791
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 1: I think I went to the base because, um, he

792
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 1: was the lead guitar player. I probably boten prayer that

793
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: would start about together, because when you sing with your brother,

794
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 1: you really do sing like you harmony and stuff. There's

795
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:39,759
Speaker 1: a magical thing between brothers. But I started to fall

796
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:42,479
Speaker 1: a lit with the best when I you knows Andy

797
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:52,359
Speaker 1: Frazer and this Jack Bruce and there's Renis Garrison. There's

798
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,239
Speaker 1: just fine. The bass is like there's an instrument. It's

799
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 1: that the cello. You know, I love the cello. I

800
00:47:57,760 --> 00:47:59,919
Speaker 1: love best notes. I like the way the best move

801
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 1: behind the chords. I mean on the Beatles first album,

802
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 1: you hear former Can't Go, How good a dass with another?

803
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 1: And he was boat, the boat, the boat. It's like

804
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 1: a passing note, you know, I was. I was maybe

805
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:21,720
Speaker 1: fourteen when I heard that. Blew my mind how anybody

806
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 1: could be that clever to put a passing on in

807
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,760
Speaker 1: a rock and roll So nobody's ever done that. And

808
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:33,879
Speaker 1: it was just an elegant instrument, you know, and it

809
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 1: looked beautiful. dB three is still a thing of enormous

810
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,319
Speaker 1: beauty to me. Or they done electoral along Home. They

811
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 1: were all beautiful instruments to base instruments. So when did

812
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 1: you start playing in bands and what did that look like? Well?

813
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 1: I sang in my brother's band when when he was

814
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 1: about seventeen and I was thirteen. I'd go around to

815
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 1: the rehearsals and seeing Walking the Dog, Blue Seal, Mabel,

816
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 1: those kind of songs. Um And then when I was

817
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 1: at art school. We needed a band to play the

818
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 1: Art school dance and I got my brother to get

819
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 1: his trauma and we just played for like three hours

820
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 1: blues and shuffles. That was my first time out. But

821
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 1: from that point on, towards the end of my state

822
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 1: at art school, I actually put it bound together. It

823
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 1: was my own and we were out playing dates. So

824
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 1: you know, I um man, when you get the bug,

825
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 1: whatever you call it, there's nothing going to stop you.

826
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 1: You know, I've slept on floors and I've been in

827
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 1: the back of a truck for like you know that was.

828
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: But you do it and you love it, and none

829
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 1: of its work. You're in the middle of a romantic thing.

830
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:51,319
Speaker 1: It's what you want to do. Whether you are pay

831
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 1: to do it or it's not the matter, but you

832
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 1: certainly don't want to be anywhere else. It's all the matters,

833
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 1: you know. So how do you get from Lancaster to

834
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 1: London by bus? But being okay, keep going. It's two

835
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 1: hundred two miles. And the first time I joined the band,

836
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 1: there's a guy called Ali Alco. It was like a

837
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 1: really genius guitar player from the Northwest. He played reading

838
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 1: festival at a band called Universe. It was a big deal.

839
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:24,759
Speaker 1: It wasn't signed, but he was a big deal. And

840
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 1: he saw me play and asked me for wanted to

841
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 1: go to London. And I actually got almost arrested about

842
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 1: six weeks before for a jewel robbery which I did

843
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 1: not do. But the police came to a sound check

844
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 1: and the Seahorse bar in more com tapped me on

845
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 1: the shoulder and then took me and my band down

846
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 1: the police station and grilled us for like two hours,

847
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 1: three hours, and they were they thought that I was

848
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 1: a bad lot. The band was dealing hash. Me and

849
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:02,800
Speaker 1: this guy, Martin, the roadie was signed. This interrogation room

850
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:06,759
Speaker 1: and Martin, they leave us addressing all these questions and

851
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 1: Martin pulls out a lumper hash and starts eating it.

852
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 1: And I thought, yeah, you know, I thought, well there

853
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 1: goes my life. You know. I think I'll you know,

854
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:18,279
Speaker 1: I think I'll just get a job now or maybe

855
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:21,880
Speaker 1: go to jail whatever. And that accuse me of stealing

856
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 1: Lonnie Donigan's drum cases when we played with Londie Donegan

857
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 1: about three months before, and uh, what would I be

858
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 1: doing with drum cases? Were the drummer was very light fingered,

859
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 1: so I would think all fingers would point to the drummer,

860
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 1: but I think he was pointing at me. So this

861
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:42,959
Speaker 1: window opened for me to go to London with Ali

862
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 1: on the old car and live in West Hampstea with

863
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:49,279
Speaker 1: the roadie and Ali in a room that was eight

864
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 1: by ten and live in London and it was spectacular.

865
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 1: You know, I had no money. I was signing on

866
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,839
Speaker 1: the door, getting like four pounds a week living off

867
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:03,880
Speaker 1: gun knows one. But it was fantastic London to the

868
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 1: early seven He's going to the Marquee Club, seeing these

869
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 1: bands that were just incredible, Stone the Crows and you know,

870
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:14,960
Speaker 1: Humble Pie, Steve Mary. I saw Steve Mary had seen

871
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 1: at the London Palladium, you know, I mean just just

872
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 1: the whiless stuff. But um, that's how I got to London. Yeah,

873
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 1: long story. And were you playing in any band before

874
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 1: you join the Babies? Yeah? That was you know, that

875
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:35,719
Speaker 1: was with England. It was called who were playing festivals

876
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 1: and the Marquee Club and eating of living out and uh,

877
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:43,800
Speaker 1: I went to America to join the band in Cleveland

878
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,719
Speaker 1: that look, we're looking for a bass player. That blew up.

879
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:49,360
Speaker 1: I came back a little bit a little bit slower.

880
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 1: How does a band in Cleveland find you in London

881
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 1: and then you go? Well, the singer, the original singer

882
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:59,799
Speaker 1: from England, a Scottish guy called Phil Ray Jesse. Ray

883
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:04,360
Speaker 1: didn't work out with Ali, so he left and I

884
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 1: stayed with Ali, and he somehow got to Cleveland. I

885
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 1: was in a band, uh and they needed a bass player.

886
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 1: And I left all this because we were going nowhere,

887
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:22,280
Speaker 1: went home and I couldn't get a job. I didn't

888
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:24,840
Speaker 1: want a job. My dad wasn't pleased to see me

889
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:27,240
Speaker 1: coming home. He was starting to to get a life,

890
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 1: you know, and I was just desperate. And this lesson

891
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 1: came from Cleveland, do you want to come and play bass?

892
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,800
Speaker 1: So I I packed up the old kicked back and

893
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 1: somehow got a visa and I went to Cleveland for

894
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 1: like four months and we played all over some of

895
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 1: the small clubs there and trying to get a record

896
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 1: deal that fell through. And then I came back to

897
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:55,840
Speaker 1: London and the baby started. Okay, had you been anywhere

898
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:59,239
Speaker 1: other than you know, the UK? What was it like

899
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 1: being Cleveland? Of all? Remember that book um Diary of

900
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:07,839
Speaker 1: a Rock and Roll Star by Ian Hunson. Of course, yeah,

901
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:12,319
Speaker 1: fantastic book. On the bus home from London, I read

902
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 1: that book and it was just about Cleveland, about the

903
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 1: scene Um, about kid Leo, about MMS the bussard all

904
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 1: you know. I was like whoa. And the scene that

905
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 1: was happening in in Cleveland was a mirror of what

906
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:31,799
Speaker 1: was happening in London. Really, so when it came through

907
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 1: that could go to Cleveland, it was like, wow, I'll

908
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 1: take a show. And there was a ballsy move, you know.

909
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:40,800
Speaker 1: But I wasn't done anything to be in a boundary.

910
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 1: I just wanted to play. Okay, so that doesn't work out.

911
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 1: You come back to the UK. Uh. You know it's

912
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 1: talked about in the movie with Adrian Lilar, but a

913
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:56,319
Speaker 1: little bit slower. How do you end up in the Babies? Well?

914
00:54:56,400 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 1: It was his mutual friend called Golden the Works Shaftbury Avenue,

915
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:05,320
Speaker 1: a guitar village and he knew Mike Kobe. It was

916
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:08,719
Speaker 1: the guitar player and Mike had a manage your gold

917
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:11,439
Speaker 1: agent and they were looking for somebody they could write

918
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:16,240
Speaker 1: songs and sing and play bass. Would I be interested

919
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 1: in taking a meeting? And would I you know? So

920
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:22,920
Speaker 1: I went for point a beer on a Friday night,

921
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:26,120
Speaker 1: I think at Sir Richard Steele's pub on have a

922
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 1: stock Hill and we talked about it, and you know,

923
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 1: it was like it could happen, you know. I mean,

924
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:35,719
Speaker 1: if you can get a record deal, it's unbelievable. And

925
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:37,919
Speaker 1: I went home and told my girlfriend. I said, look,

926
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 1: it's you know, painting the sky. It's just too much.

927
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:44,839
Speaker 1: But Asian was very tenacious, you know, and he must

928
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:50,880
Speaker 1: have seen something in me because it took about fifteen months,

929
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:54,640
Speaker 1: but we eventually got a record deal and I wrote

930
00:55:54,719 --> 00:56:01,080
Speaker 1: songs and I sang them and I became person. You know.

931
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 1: So in those fifteen months, what were you doing and

932
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:07,320
Speaker 1: what was the band doing to ultimately lead up to

933
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 1: this record deal. Well, we had a there was two

934
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 1: artists from the Royal College that owned a warehouse on

935
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,840
Speaker 1: tool the Street, which is just south the Thames, and

936
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 1: Adrian knew him. There were eccentric guys that were great,

937
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:24,759
Speaker 1: but he had this rehearsal space called Base in the

938
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:29,719
Speaker 1: in the basement of this great, big tea warehouse, and

939
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 1: we used to go down there and audition people or

940
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 1: just you know, go to the pub next door and

941
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:38,719
Speaker 1: have a beer and talk about it even more it

942
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:41,759
Speaker 1: was all you know, it's like, um, we talked about

943
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:43,640
Speaker 1: it more than we were it. You know. It was

944
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 1: like and I went home and wrote songs and then

945
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 1: I came back in and we'd work them all up.

946
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:52,120
Speaker 1: We got Tony down the drummer. It was a hot

947
00:56:52,239 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 1: drummer in London, and then we had something. We had

948
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:58,000
Speaker 1: a three piece bound, so we were in the studio

949
00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:00,840
Speaker 1: and cut demos. It was unbelievable, you know, it was

950
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:04,360
Speaker 1: actually moving forward in a sort of like it was weaving,

951
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 1: you know, but it was moving forward, and eventually we

952
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:13,040
Speaker 1: got we got signed through doing a video, which was

953
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 1: very unusual. And man, this is about fifteen lifetimes ago.

954
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 1: It really is. You know, it's hard to it's hard

955
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 1: to look back without being misty eyed. But it was.

956
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 1: It was rough. You know. We didn't have anybody to eat.

957
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 1: It was all handsome mouth. It was desperate, you know,

958
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 1: and London cold and rainy, no heating, no hot water.

959
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:38,360
Speaker 1: You know, it was kind of you know, it was

960
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:42,600
Speaker 1: it's chance in a million that it turned out like it.

961
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 1: Did you signed with Chrysalis? Did you just walk in

962
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 1: a room and sign or do you hire a lawyer

963
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 1: or how did that happen. Well, the band had a lawyer,

964
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,920
Speaker 1: but the band was certainly provided the lawyer by Adrian.

965
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:00,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I knew it going in. You know, if

966
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 1: you sign on for something, you can't start blaming people.

967
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 1: It was a raw deal for me and a good

968
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:10,680
Speaker 1: deal for them. But I came as part of the package.

969
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 1: And but it was a huge signing and we got

970
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 1: some money and an allowance. You know, this is a

971
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:22,360
Speaker 1: big deal too back then, and we got on with it.

972
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:26,440
Speaker 1: We just I kept thinking, no matter what happens, if

973
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 1: you just keep you know, punch it, you're gonna You're

974
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:33,600
Speaker 1: gonna come through somewhere. I just thought that was always

975
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:36,160
Speaker 1: going to be the way out. It's just stay with it.

976
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 1: And it was fantastic, you know, coming to America St.

977
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:43,720
Speaker 1: Louis recorded St. Louis and seeing the arch and the

978
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 1: whole thing, and and New York City in the seventies,

979
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 1: you know, wow, l A. And then going through Cleveland

980
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 1: where I just you know, cut my teeth and it

981
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:57,480
Speaker 1: was all kind of meant to be. It was ridiculous

982
00:58:57,560 --> 00:59:02,440
Speaker 1: for me. Okay. So one of the big points in

983
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:06,320
Speaker 1: the movie is you work with Bob Ezrin. It hasn't

984
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:08,960
Speaker 1: done Pink Floyd the Wall at that point. But did

985
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 1: lou Reid's album, did all the Alice Cooper records, and

986
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:16,920
Speaker 1: you talk, what a bad experience that is. He just

987
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 1: didn't get it. I mean you really, I don't want to, like,

988
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 1: you know, make a meal out of it, but it

989
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 1: was I don't I don't know how he missed it.

990
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:31,640
Speaker 1: But in the Andy stuff coming to the studio, you know,

991
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 1: it was we're being produced by the engineer. It's kind

992
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:39,360
Speaker 1: of unbelievable because I know he's got a great track record,

993
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 1: but my experience wasn't good, okay, and he's normally in Toronto.

994
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:47,840
Speaker 1: Did he cut it in London or in Toronto? In Toronto?

995
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:51,120
Speaker 1: We went all the way Toronto to the studio, which

996
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 1: costs a lot of money by time you're done, so

997
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 1: you talk about the record, you're not happy, but you

998
00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 1: put it out anyway, So what to like starting with

999
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:07,880
Speaker 1: a record you don't believe him? Well, it's the weirdest thing.

1000
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:11,440
Speaker 1: We took it back to England. Everybody here everything about it,

1001
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:15,040
Speaker 1: and I think the record company thought about it and

1002
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:19,320
Speaker 1: decided just to go. I mean in London, those posters

1003
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 1: on the on the sides of busses. You know, we'd

1004
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 1: be talking to somebody in the street like in Pickadilly

1005
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:28,880
Speaker 1: Circus and the bus that go by Young Ambazon you

1006
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:32,640
Speaker 1: get out of the subway, the underground that posts of

1007
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 1: the battle that you know, and we were on the

1008
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:38,840
Speaker 1: major TV shows. It was like out of life of

1009
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:42,800
Speaker 1: its own and I suppose you wish that people are

1010
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 1: gonna see it for more than it is, but I

1011
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 1: think we would have made a much better record with

1012
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 1: a different producer. Okay, Now, one other element in the

1013
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 1: movie is you're in the UK. It appears that Adrian

1014
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 1: Miller is going to fight with the label and he

1015
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:03,160
Speaker 1: instructs all of you to come back, but you don't, right,

1016
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 1: So what was the real story there? Well, the real

1017
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:09,600
Speaker 1: story is that, I mean what was what what was

1018
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 1: going on with him in the label on it was

1019
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:15,000
Speaker 1: being threatening. I think he based his life on being

1020
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:17,640
Speaker 1: one of the greatest twins, you know. It was one

1021
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:19,920
Speaker 1: of those kind of Eastern gangster kind of like alright,

1022
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:23,600
Speaker 1: my how you do it? Taken facing tif in night

1023
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:25,920
Speaker 1: you do it all say? You know, it was like

1024
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 1: it was unnecessary, but that was part of his persona,

1025
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:32,920
Speaker 1: and I think he went to talk with the company

1026
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:36,640
Speaker 1: and wanted more money, and the company had already spent

1027
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 1: an aminal leg on the album. And then how does

1028
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:43,400
Speaker 1: in America doing a twelve day promotional tour. We did

1029
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:48,680
Speaker 1: all the major TV shows, played live, let the press, uh,

1030
01:01:49,120 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 1: record signings. We were in the middle of a whirlwind

1031
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:55,960
Speaker 1: promotional thing and it was going well. And we were

1032
01:01:56,000 --> 01:02:01,360
Speaker 1: at the highest in Westwood in a suite and the

1033
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:07,240
Speaker 1: phone rang and it was Adrian and Uh, it was like,

1034
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:11,560
Speaker 1: pack your backs, you're coming home now. It was like,

1035
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:13,400
Speaker 1: what the fund are you talk to me like that?

1036
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 1: For you know, it's you know, I'm the singer, I'm

1037
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:23,680
Speaker 1: the writer, and I've just spent two years living off

1038
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 1: you know, French fries and milk, and you're telling me

1039
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:30,480
Speaker 1: I'm going to get out a plane because Shervan Arow

1040
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:34,080
Speaker 1: with the record company. Can't you sold it out? And

1041
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:37,640
Speaker 1: he was just that. He went straight to Adrian number two,

1042
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:40,120
Speaker 1: which is kind of like, you know, you'll do what

1043
01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:42,560
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you to Samuel manager and we just

1044
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:44,520
Speaker 1: looked at each other. He got us all on the

1045
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 1: phone one by one and said, you know, you've got

1046
01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 1: to come home now, and I just said, you know,

1047
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 1: I mean you can make that what you want. But

1048
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:58,440
Speaker 1: if we had gone back, would have wound up without

1049
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:02,000
Speaker 1: two the street, we wouldn't even a clubhouse, would have

1050
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:06,840
Speaker 1: all disappeared back into our lives. It was over. It

1051
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:11,560
Speaker 1: was a hard decision to make on some level. And

1052
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:14,720
Speaker 1: I never felt right about saying no suation because he

1053
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 1: was he was the guy without Asian. There had been

1054
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:21,080
Speaker 1: nothing but this part of him. There was always about

1055
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:24,360
Speaker 1: more money and we weren't getting any, you know, so

1056
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:29,120
Speaker 1: it was kind of like survival, you know, That's what

1057
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:32,200
Speaker 1: it was. It was survival. So what did he say

1058
01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 1: when you I mean, you do you ever basically say

1059
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:38,120
Speaker 1: you're fired? How did that go down? Well, you know,

1060
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:40,120
Speaker 1: we just the record company says us, what do you

1061
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:41,680
Speaker 1: want to do? You know we could we're in the

1062
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:44,040
Speaker 1: middle of this. Said well, we'll funk it. We're coming out.

1063
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 1: That's it. What what what do we do? And they

1064
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 1: put us in a house in Beverly Hills. Uh, and

1065
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:55,960
Speaker 1: Adrian rang up the FBI or the police or something.

1066
01:03:56,360 --> 01:04:02,280
Speaker 1: But the FBI knocked on the door about four days later, um,

1067
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:07,680
Speaker 1: wondering if we've been kidnapped. I mean, it was just wild.

1068
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 1: You know, you couldn't make this stuff up, and we

1069
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:13,960
Speaker 1: had Bill Graham and a least like really huge managers

1070
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:16,440
Speaker 1: coming to the house to see if we're consider being

1071
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:20,320
Speaker 1: managed by that and stuff. I mean, it was something

1072
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:22,920
Speaker 1: a matter of a sign before it exploded anyway. But

1073
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:28,160
Speaker 1: without Adrian, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I wouldn't

1074
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:32,320
Speaker 1: be where I am. There'd be no solo career, missing

1075
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:35,360
Speaker 1: you or anything. None, none of the big success of

1076
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:37,960
Speaker 1: the biggest success to the baby said, none of it

1077
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:41,200
Speaker 1: would happen. I just wish you would be more amicable,

1078
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:43,720
Speaker 1: you know, more more able to deal with other people

1079
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:46,360
Speaker 1: to get what he wantsed you know, how'd you end

1080
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 1: up with Rob Stone? Um? He came by the house

1081
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:56,560
Speaker 1: with Elliott Roberts and Elliott made me laugh. I mean,

1082
01:04:57,160 --> 01:05:00,760
Speaker 1: we had one guy show up. We looked like Perry

1083
01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:05,120
Speaker 1: Como and he had this like sweater on the button

1084
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:09,040
Speaker 1: at the front and like a sports shirt and it's

1085
01:05:09,120 --> 01:05:12,600
Speaker 1: really bad haircut, like a Republican haircut. And he said,

1086
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:16,840
Speaker 1: and I said, well, you know, who have you worked with?

1087
01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:20,160
Speaker 1: You know, because I was pretty much the spokesman. This

1088
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:23,560
Speaker 1: guy said, A little band you might have heard of him,

1089
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:28,040
Speaker 1: the Beatles, And yeah, you know, so he was immediately

1090
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:30,080
Speaker 1: shown the door. You know, it was like, get the

1091
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:33,560
Speaker 1: fuck out, get away from me. But Elliott was funny

1092
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:38,800
Speaker 1: and very intelligent and Ron me and Ron just we

1093
01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:42,360
Speaker 1: just became great friends. We've been friends, I suppose on

1094
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:47,960
Speaker 1: and off he is and uh, you know, and they

1095
01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:50,960
Speaker 1: were very connected. They had Neil Young, and Neil Young

1096
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 1: was to me like, uh he was my Dylan really

1097
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:59,040
Speaker 1: at that point, and Joni Mitchell and they had the

1098
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:03,280
Speaker 1: cars and I think they had Devo. But they were

1099
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:09,280
Speaker 1: players and they were respected and we hit the ground

1100
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:12,320
Speaker 1: running with them and we really had a ball. And

1101
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:14,240
Speaker 1: then there was an argument between them and the record

1102
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:16,240
Speaker 1: company of the money and that was the end of that.

1103
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:22,640
Speaker 1: So money kept looming. It's oh what happened between Lookout

1104
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:25,520
Speaker 1: management in the label and how did you end up

1105
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:30,160
Speaker 1: partying ways with them? Well, I think Elliott went then

1106
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:33,080
Speaker 1: and said, listen, we can't move forward this motion debt.

1107
01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 1: You know, let's just call the debt experience and let's

1108
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:41,240
Speaker 1: kick it off for the new you know, we're in now.

1109
01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:44,120
Speaker 1: And they had a big rather record company and it's

1110
01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:48,200
Speaker 1: just wouldn't work with them, and so that was it.

1111
01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:51,040
Speaker 1: You had to get a new manager. Yeah, and who

1112
01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:58,280
Speaker 1: was that manager? Well, that was Renaissance, manishment, that was Renaissance.

1113
01:06:58,320 --> 01:07:03,320
Speaker 1: They had Ray Davis, they had the Kinks, and we

1114
01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:05,920
Speaker 1: hit the road. I mean after the incident with the

1115
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:10,000
Speaker 1: guitar player, we got Jonathan Cannon and Ricky Phillips expanded

1116
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:12,600
Speaker 1: the band. Bab became the singer. Just decided to do

1117
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:17,919
Speaker 1: Baby Smart too really and went out and and toured relentlessly.

1118
01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:21,720
Speaker 1: Great fund that he went nowhere. Okay, so the second album,

1119
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:24,880
Speaker 1: how do you end up working with ron nevison Um?

1120
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:27,760
Speaker 1: He was He just came along when we got to

1121
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:32,040
Speaker 1: l a We we were staying in l a Um

1122
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:36,360
Speaker 1: after the Adriaan thing and doing the odd TV show

1123
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:43,120
Speaker 1: and ron was a series of one of different producers

1124
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:46,480
Speaker 1: that we were introduced to. You know, he worked with

1125
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:50,280
Speaker 1: towns End. That was a big, big Townsend fan, and

1126
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:59,080
Speaker 1: you know he had an authentic rock track record. So

1127
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:01,800
Speaker 1: now you're in the studio for a second time. First time,

1128
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:05,680
Speaker 1: you have a bad experience. How is the experience overall?

1129
01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:09,480
Speaker 1: And there's a big focus on the making of Isn't

1130
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:13,040
Speaker 1: It Time? Well, isn't It Time? As the song we

1131
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:16,559
Speaker 1: didn't write, it became apparent that we needed to hit single,

1132
01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:19,720
Speaker 1: or the company thought we needed to hit single, and

1133
01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:23,840
Speaker 1: Yon had this piano demo and it was we're all

1134
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:27,920
Speaker 1: kind of good at arrangement, but we told we tore

1135
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:31,120
Speaker 1: it to pieces and remade it as as what became

1136
01:08:31,280 --> 01:08:37,880
Speaker 1: like a soul Brittish rock classic. But um runket engineer, well,

1137
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:41,519
Speaker 1: we had the big room at the record plant and

1138
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:44,960
Speaker 1: we were using a mobile unit out in Malibu in

1139
01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:52,280
Speaker 1: a in a ranch house. Um it worked. You know,

1140
01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:56,240
Speaker 1: it's still not what I saw as what we were,

1141
01:08:57,200 --> 01:09:01,200
Speaker 1: but um it worked, and those records stand up today.

1142
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:04,519
Speaker 1: So how do you feel, and you know, you're a

1143
01:09:04,560 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 1: bass player, you're a singer, you're a writer, how do

1144
01:09:07,360 --> 01:09:10,400
Speaker 1: you feel about having to do someone else's song and

1145
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:14,000
Speaker 1: that becoming the hit. Well, it didn't please me. I

1146
01:09:14,080 --> 01:09:16,920
Speaker 1: thought the songs were that I wrote were better. There

1147
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:19,800
Speaker 1: was a song on the third album, call You. It

1148
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:22,439
Speaker 1: was like people still shout for it now and I

1149
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:26,880
Speaker 1: wrote that one weekend, like and it's really well, I

1150
01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:28,360
Speaker 1: look at it, I think how did I do that

1151
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:32,560
Speaker 1: at that age? But there every company hated it. You know,

1152
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:34,719
Speaker 1: you go up against these people that think you should

1153
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:40,000
Speaker 1: sound like something when you don't, and you're a drift.

1154
01:09:40,320 --> 01:09:42,679
Speaker 1: You know, you're just fighting the record company all the time.

1155
01:09:43,360 --> 01:09:45,839
Speaker 1: I don't know anybody that that hasn't had that problem.

1156
01:09:48,120 --> 01:09:52,720
Speaker 1: So how does it end with the babies? Um? I

1157
01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:56,760
Speaker 1: left Jonathan can get off the trub With Journey, we

1158
01:09:56,840 --> 01:10:00,519
Speaker 1: hadn't had a hit record. Um the big record we

1159
01:10:00,640 --> 01:10:04,559
Speaker 1: had we said first the third record, and we had

1160
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:07,080
Speaker 1: every summer I think of you and head first on

1161
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:09,559
Speaker 1: a M and F M simultaneously. Was as big as

1162
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:12,720
Speaker 1: we would ever get. It was fabulous, you know, and

1163
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:15,120
Speaker 1: we were playing to sell that place. It's so opening

1164
01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:18,479
Speaker 1: for bigger bands and leaving everybody on their feet. We

1165
01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:20,240
Speaker 1: were at the top of our game and the record

1166
01:10:20,280 --> 01:10:23,400
Speaker 1: company just couldn't do it, and I just wore out

1167
01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:35,120
Speaker 1: and I went back to England. Really okay before we

1168
01:10:35,200 --> 01:10:38,439
Speaker 1: get there, you worked with Keith Olsen. Yeah, of course

1169
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:42,120
Speaker 1: is no longer with us, but had great success with

1170
01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:46,479
Speaker 1: the Fleetwood back with Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham. Yeah.

1171
01:10:48,080 --> 01:10:51,800
Speaker 1: How was that experience relative to Ezra and Nevison, Well,

1172
01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:55,760
Speaker 1: it was more me and potatoes, you know. I think

1173
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:58,600
Speaker 1: at that point we were used to playing live on

1174
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:04,519
Speaker 1: stage as a four or five span and nailing it.

1175
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:07,560
Speaker 1: There were no effects on it. It was just like

1176
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:11,840
Speaker 1: a really tough band and we wanted to sound like

1177
01:11:12,040 --> 01:11:17,400
Speaker 1: that in the studio and he made that possible. You know,

1178
01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:20,280
Speaker 1: he was passive, he didn't have a lot of input

1179
01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:23,639
Speaker 1: on the music, but he was there, you know, through

1180
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:26,519
Speaker 1: the long hours of recording and getting it right. And

1181
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:30,160
Speaker 1: you know, he was a good guy. So when you

1182
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:34,280
Speaker 1: go back to England, you're worn out. What's your plan? Well,

1183
01:11:34,320 --> 01:11:38,640
Speaker 1: I got married, I you know, and I lived in

1184
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:41,840
Speaker 1: the countryside in a tiny cottage and I had no

1185
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:44,640
Speaker 1: interest in coming back and doing it again. But it

1186
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:48,400
Speaker 1: worked out that I would. Well what a little bit slower.

1187
01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:52,559
Speaker 1: The woman you married, how did you know her? Well,

1188
01:11:52,720 --> 01:11:57,200
Speaker 1: she was my girlfriend when I was seventeen and we'd

1189
01:11:57,240 --> 01:12:00,560
Speaker 1: come to America together with the babies. We moved to

1190
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:03,880
Speaker 1: California and then she went back. She didn't like it,

1191
01:12:04,720 --> 01:12:07,720
Speaker 1: and you know, it was just a natural thing. I've

1192
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:12,200
Speaker 1: known it for ten years. Okay, and you're out of

1193
01:12:12,240 --> 01:12:15,240
Speaker 1: the babies. Are you thinking, well, I'm gonna have children,

1194
01:12:15,320 --> 01:12:18,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get a straight job. What's going through your mind? Yeah?

1195
01:12:18,200 --> 01:12:21,040
Speaker 1: I had no idea. I had like six grand or

1196
01:12:21,080 --> 01:12:25,760
Speaker 1: something in the bank and this little cottage and shared

1197
01:12:25,800 --> 01:12:30,040
Speaker 1: a job at local paper, and I just didn't Honestly,

1198
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:33,800
Speaker 1: I never thought further ahead than two or a few months.

1199
01:12:35,439 --> 01:12:38,519
Speaker 1: I don't know why, because you know, I'm cool enough

1200
01:12:38,600 --> 01:12:41,680
Speaker 1: to look forward, and you don't want to provide for

1201
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:45,080
Speaker 1: a family whatever, But it I just don't know how

1202
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:47,240
Speaker 1: we survived it. But I got off at a record

1203
01:12:47,320 --> 01:12:49,160
Speaker 1: contract with the m I and I went back and

1204
01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:55,040
Speaker 1: I have missing you, and everything just blew up again.

1205
01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:59,400
Speaker 1: Okay when you went back and got married, how much

1206
01:12:59,479 --> 01:13:02,599
Speaker 1: were you and out and how much were you disillusioned? Oh?

1207
01:13:02,680 --> 01:13:05,760
Speaker 1: I was through with it, you know, I was really

1208
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:10,120
Speaker 1: through the music business. I didn't ever want to sing again.

1209
01:13:10,360 --> 01:13:12,960
Speaker 1: But I did go back, and I say I made

1210
01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:16,000
Speaker 1: a solo record for Christmas. I moved to New York

1211
01:13:16,080 --> 01:13:19,040
Speaker 1: City at a small tidy crash battle sent the Second Street,

1212
01:13:19,640 --> 01:13:24,840
Speaker 1: made the Ignition record with Neil Geraldo and and then

1213
01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:28,960
Speaker 1: I quit and went back to it. So, you know, Bob,

1214
01:13:29,120 --> 01:13:31,479
Speaker 1: you should have done the documentary because you know this

1215
01:13:31,640 --> 01:13:34,479
Speaker 1: is like, you know, this is in depth. Man, I'm

1216
01:13:34,520 --> 01:13:37,320
Speaker 1: sure there's only you and I vaguely interested in the

1217
01:13:37,439 --> 01:13:42,840
Speaker 1: past life. Well, you know this is I won't make

1218
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:45,280
Speaker 1: it about me it's about you. But as I say,

1219
01:13:46,360 --> 01:13:48,760
Speaker 1: I resonate with a lot of what you're saying. I'm

1220
01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:52,640
Speaker 1: not a successful musician, but the internalization and wanting to

1221
01:13:52,720 --> 01:13:57,559
Speaker 1: be heard. But moving forward. Okay, you're when you were married,

1222
01:13:57,640 --> 01:14:01,439
Speaker 1: you've never had children? Correct? No, know, is it something

1223
01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:05,240
Speaker 1: that you thought you would have or you were kept

1224
01:14:05,320 --> 01:14:07,800
Speaker 1: kicking it down the road, or is something I'm so

1225
01:14:07,960 --> 01:14:10,280
Speaker 1: dedicated to my career I don't want any Yeah. I

1226
01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:12,280
Speaker 1: think it was finding the right person at the right

1227
01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:14,920
Speaker 1: time when things weren't falling apart. I mean, it's a

1228
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:19,280
Speaker 1: journeyman profession. You're flying by the seat of your pounts

1229
01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:22,080
Speaker 1: all the time and you're on the move, and it's

1230
01:14:22,120 --> 01:14:23,640
Speaker 1: a you know, I look back at it now, I go,

1231
01:14:23,880 --> 01:14:27,360
Speaker 1: how the hell did I do that? Or go without

1232
01:14:27,439 --> 01:14:31,640
Speaker 1: this and do that and make that happen? And you know,

1233
01:14:33,479 --> 01:14:35,360
Speaker 1: I was in a relationship a few years ago with

1234
01:14:35,439 --> 01:14:37,720
Speaker 1: a girl that had a kid, and you fall in

1235
01:14:37,800 --> 01:14:39,880
Speaker 1: love with the kid, and we spent enough time around

1236
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:43,759
Speaker 1: the kid, it's just a natural thing to start suggesting stuff.

1237
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:47,960
Speaker 1: You know, you start becoming somebody's dad, and it's a

1238
01:14:48,120 --> 01:14:52,559
Speaker 1: it's a nice experience, you know, Um, it will never

1239
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:56,280
Speaker 1: happen now, and I think long in the tooth now,

1240
01:14:56,400 --> 01:14:57,920
Speaker 1: So it's kind of like I wouldn't want to leave

1241
01:14:57,960 --> 01:15:02,160
Speaker 1: some kids alone. He was ten when I just put

1242
01:15:02,240 --> 01:15:06,320
Speaker 1: my clocks, you know. Okay, let's go back to the

1243
01:15:06,360 --> 01:15:09,280
Speaker 1: woman you marry that's also in the movie. How does

1244
01:15:09,400 --> 01:15:14,439
Speaker 1: that end? It just endswered me being away so much

1245
01:15:15,720 --> 01:15:20,200
Speaker 1: that we became strangers, you know, and she the same thing.

1246
01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:25,320
Speaker 1: You start living different lives, you know, you really do.

1247
01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:28,080
Speaker 1: When I also have to ask, because rock and roll,

1248
01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:31,400
Speaker 1: were you being a bad boy. I was a young

1249
01:15:31,479 --> 01:15:34,240
Speaker 1: man and I was an idiot, you know, but I think, um,

1250
01:15:34,720 --> 01:15:37,400
Speaker 1: I think that the marriage was definitely on the rocks

1251
01:15:38,280 --> 01:15:42,120
Speaker 1: long before we started full. I think we're just different people.

1252
01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:45,639
Speaker 1: I mean, I'd taken it to America and she really

1253
01:15:45,680 --> 01:15:48,120
Speaker 1: didn't like it, and what did you go home? So

1254
01:15:48,280 --> 01:15:50,120
Speaker 1: I think I was going to have to spend a

1255
01:15:50,200 --> 01:15:52,360
Speaker 1: lot more time in America. Let's do what I was doing,

1256
01:15:52,400 --> 01:15:55,640
Speaker 1: and you just spend You're just on the move. You're

1257
01:15:55,680 --> 01:15:58,360
Speaker 1: trying to make things work, send money home, the whole thing.

1258
01:15:58,479 --> 01:16:04,720
Speaker 1: You know, I just naturally he falls upon. Okay, so

1259
01:16:04,960 --> 01:16:08,400
Speaker 1: now you're back in the UK. You've made this album

1260
01:16:08,520 --> 01:16:12,200
Speaker 1: that was not commercially successful with Neil Girraldo did you

1261
01:16:12,360 --> 01:16:14,560
Speaker 1: know Neil Giraldo? How'd you hook up with him? No?

1262
01:16:15,439 --> 01:16:17,639
Speaker 1: He he came forward at some point I was looking

1263
01:16:17,680 --> 01:16:21,160
Speaker 1: for producer and said I'll do it, you know, and

1264
01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:23,760
Speaker 1: we we had long conversations, went for a couple of

1265
01:16:23,880 --> 01:16:27,120
Speaker 1: walks at a few drinks. I was working with Ivan

1266
01:16:27,200 --> 01:16:32,320
Speaker 1: Kroll for Patty Smith's band and Iggy Pop and Frankie

1267
01:16:32,400 --> 01:16:37,880
Speaker 1: l Rocco Um had a really crack New York band.

1268
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:41,360
Speaker 1: It was. It was a edge, edgey band, you know,

1269
01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:44,479
Speaker 1: And I think, left to my own devices, I would

1270
01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:47,040
Speaker 1: have gone off and works with Chris Spenning. Me and

1271
01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:50,599
Speaker 1: Chris were talking about doing a band with Buster Jones.

1272
01:16:51,560 --> 01:16:57,840
Speaker 1: And but Neil what a guy. I mean, he was

1273
01:16:57,880 --> 01:16:59,840
Speaker 1: between me and the record company. It was all of

1274
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:01,920
Speaker 1: lost sort. So she me in the record company. I

1275
01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:05,519
Speaker 1: hear they heared me. But we made a great record.

1276
01:17:06,160 --> 01:17:08,320
Speaker 1: It was really a record that stands up, you know,

1277
01:17:09,120 --> 01:17:13,200
Speaker 1: and both power. You know. If it was good. So

1278
01:17:13,360 --> 01:17:17,200
Speaker 1: you go back to England, you think you're done, Yes,

1279
01:17:18,640 --> 01:17:21,960
Speaker 1: what is the trigger to come back? Well? I met

1280
01:17:22,080 --> 01:17:28,920
Speaker 1: this lawyer in tracks on seventy two Street before I quit,

1281
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:33,720
Speaker 1: and he kept in touch and when I went back

1282
01:17:33,760 --> 01:17:38,679
Speaker 1: to England. But what's the name of that lawyer? Rick Smith? Okay?

1283
01:17:39,040 --> 01:17:41,040
Speaker 1: And then there was another guy called Stephen was shot

1284
01:17:41,160 --> 01:17:44,280
Speaker 1: and they became partless and they got me out of

1285
01:17:44,400 --> 01:17:46,960
Speaker 1: my deal with Christmas. They got me out of my deal.

1286
01:17:47,200 --> 01:17:48,960
Speaker 1: It costs an armon of leg that I got away,

1287
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:53,000
Speaker 1: and they got me signed to E M. I and

1288
01:17:53,160 --> 01:17:56,479
Speaker 1: everything just changed. The sun burst through the sky, you know.

1289
01:17:56,560 --> 01:18:00,280
Speaker 1: It was like they took me seriously amid the record

1290
01:18:00,320 --> 01:18:03,400
Speaker 1: of White to make. I produced it and we had

1291
01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:09,360
Speaker 1: number one single overnight. Okay, although you go into it,

1292
01:18:10,160 --> 01:18:13,760
Speaker 1: tell us here the story of writing missing you. Well,

1293
01:18:13,800 --> 01:18:16,599
Speaker 1: I was around at somebody's house. We'd we'd finished the record,

1294
01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:22,960
Speaker 1: and I knew we hadn't got the single. We were

1295
01:18:23,000 --> 01:18:25,360
Speaker 1: having a bone in the studio. We were writing songs

1296
01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:30,040
Speaker 1: for me and the guitar player, Gary Myrick. We just storming. Wait, wait,

1297
01:18:30,240 --> 01:18:32,719
Speaker 1: I have to ask you something. I was a huge

1298
01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:35,600
Speaker 1: fan of that first record, She Talks in Stereo. I

1299
01:18:35,720 --> 01:18:38,320
Speaker 1: bought it. Yeah, I went to see him at the Roxy.

1300
01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:41,840
Speaker 1: How did you cook up with Gary Myrick through Gary

1301
01:18:41,920 --> 01:18:45,040
Speaker 1: Gersh at E M I. I think I think Gary

1302
01:18:45,120 --> 01:18:47,880
Speaker 1: Gersh was s tiking to Gary Myrick about doing a deal,

1303
01:18:48,720 --> 01:18:51,040
Speaker 1: and when I was looking for guitar player, Gary said,

1304
01:18:51,120 --> 01:18:53,839
Speaker 1: you know, he should meet Gary Merrick. It might be interesting.

1305
01:18:53,920 --> 01:18:56,400
Speaker 1: You know, he's he's so out there, but he's great.

1306
01:18:56,439 --> 01:18:59,880
Speaker 1: And I said, okay, sure. I mean Gary showed up

1307
01:19:00,600 --> 01:19:04,759
Speaker 1: and we had the Trauma from Tom Petty's band sitting

1308
01:19:06,040 --> 01:19:12,519
Speaker 1: and Flee was on base Uh and Gary and we

1309
01:19:12,680 --> 01:19:15,160
Speaker 1: hit it off. It was just like magical. It was like,

1310
01:19:15,320 --> 01:19:20,080
Speaker 1: let's go, and we've made the record in record time,

1311
01:19:20,200 --> 01:19:24,960
Speaker 1: like in six weeks from meeting. Off the plane too mixing,

1312
01:19:25,120 --> 01:19:27,639
Speaker 1: and I knew we hadn't got a single. I knew.

1313
01:19:27,880 --> 01:19:31,760
Speaker 1: I knew enough about the business now it worked to

1314
01:19:31,920 --> 01:19:34,560
Speaker 1: know that come and go so fast. You get a

1315
01:19:34,560 --> 01:19:37,320
Speaker 1: great review in Rolling Stone and then people go back

1316
01:19:37,360 --> 01:19:40,360
Speaker 1: to what they were doing. And I wanted a hit single.

1317
01:19:40,640 --> 01:19:42,559
Speaker 1: And I was working on this song with this guy

1318
01:19:42,920 --> 01:19:47,360
Speaker 1: in his studio and we've been there a couple of

1319
01:19:47,479 --> 01:19:50,479
Speaker 1: days while they were mixing, and he hadn't put any

1320
01:19:50,560 --> 01:19:54,240
Speaker 1: colde on the tape. So he's hitting play and forward

1321
01:19:54,840 --> 01:19:58,439
Speaker 1: and reverse and play, and he couldn't find the song

1322
01:19:58,720 --> 01:20:01,840
Speaker 1: worked on the night before and he hit the playboaton

1323
01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:04,679
Speaker 1: at the wrong time, and this thing had been working

1324
01:20:04,760 --> 01:20:11,639
Speaker 1: on like an eight note field with terrible phony drums

1325
01:20:11,720 --> 01:20:14,360
Speaker 1: and some good guitar plan but it was the backing

1326
01:20:14,439 --> 01:20:17,960
Speaker 1: track for What's a Nice to Be Missing You? And

1327
01:20:18,040 --> 01:20:20,960
Speaker 1: I said, let me have a crack at that. Just

1328
01:20:21,120 --> 01:20:24,439
Speaker 1: let me have a go. You know, I'm always gamed

1329
01:20:24,479 --> 01:20:25,880
Speaker 1: to do that kind of thing. I was good at

1330
01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:27,599
Speaker 1: that in the Babies, you know, I could make stuff

1331
01:20:27,640 --> 01:20:31,760
Speaker 1: upon the mic, and I got it. We ran through

1332
01:20:31,800 --> 01:20:35,840
Speaker 1: it once, he didn't record it, and then he read

1333
01:20:35,960 --> 01:20:38,479
Speaker 1: He recorded the second one, and I got the whole

1334
01:20:38,520 --> 01:20:45,400
Speaker 1: first verse, and of course, you know, I mean every

1335
01:20:45,520 --> 01:20:48,400
Speaker 1: road that I've been ever been on led me to

1336
01:20:48,520 --> 01:20:52,200
Speaker 1: that moment, and I knew it was number one. And

1337
01:20:53,160 --> 01:20:55,400
Speaker 1: that was my next question. People don't understand when you

1338
01:20:55,479 --> 01:21:00,679
Speaker 1: do something that's on the leven you oh, you know exactly.

1339
01:21:00,760 --> 01:21:03,479
Speaker 1: You touch something like a microphone in its life, and

1340
01:21:03,520 --> 01:21:06,160
Speaker 1: you got like this, you know, it's like getting a shot.

1341
01:21:07,360 --> 01:21:11,160
Speaker 1: And I hadn't even it was like sleepwalking. I've used

1342
01:21:11,200 --> 01:21:15,040
Speaker 1: every time I Think of You as the first line

1343
01:21:15,080 --> 01:21:18,200
Speaker 1: because it was a baby sun every time I think

1344
01:21:18,240 --> 01:21:20,720
Speaker 1: of you, And so I had no idea what I

1345
01:21:20,800 --> 01:21:23,639
Speaker 1: was going to sing, and so I sang that first

1346
01:21:23,720 --> 01:21:28,200
Speaker 1: line and the rest of it just happened. I always

1347
01:21:28,280 --> 01:21:31,160
Speaker 1: catch my breath and I'm still standing here in your

1348
01:21:31,240 --> 01:21:33,400
Speaker 1: miles away, and I'm wondering why you left. And there's

1349
01:21:33,400 --> 01:21:36,720
Speaker 1: a storm that's racing through my frozen heart tonight. You've

1350
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:39,920
Speaker 1: missing you at all since you've been going away in

1351
01:21:40,040 --> 01:21:45,559
Speaker 1: one piece. And yeah, I always could do that. Most

1352
01:21:45,600 --> 01:21:47,840
Speaker 1: of my lyrics come from that place. Have just close

1353
01:21:47,880 --> 01:21:53,000
Speaker 1: your eyes, step forward, don't overthink, just open up. You

1354
01:21:53,080 --> 01:21:56,800
Speaker 1: can't count on it. It's a very feminine thing. If

1355
01:21:56,840 --> 01:22:00,599
Speaker 1: you go there too often, or you disrespect and thank god,

1356
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:03,760
Speaker 1: I'll take care of that tomorrow, it goes away, it

1357
01:22:03,880 --> 01:22:07,679
Speaker 1: ignores you. And if you save it for the right moments,

1358
01:22:08,800 --> 01:22:13,080
Speaker 1: it's almost like having a a secret lover. Is somebody

1359
01:22:13,320 --> 01:22:17,640
Speaker 1: that's just waiting for you. You know. It's intense, But

1360
01:22:18,200 --> 01:22:22,040
Speaker 1: I'm sure that something is brilliant as fast Car by

1361
01:22:22,280 --> 01:22:25,559
Speaker 1: Tracy Chapman. I'm sure she sat down. She's going doom

1362
01:22:25,600 --> 01:22:29,599
Speaker 1: doing doom ding. You've been a fast is it faster?

1363
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:33,240
Speaker 1: You can find one? You know. I'm sure that all

1364
01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:35,800
Speaker 1: the really beautiful songs in the world that are really

1365
01:22:35,960 --> 01:22:39,160
Speaker 1: heartbreak come from that kind of and and the really

1366
01:22:39,280 --> 01:22:43,040
Speaker 1: tremendous rock and our songs. You know, watching Paul McCartney

1367
01:22:43,160 --> 01:22:46,080
Speaker 1: right get Back in the in the recent mood, you

1368
01:22:46,120 --> 01:22:48,840
Speaker 1: know you can see him, you can seem like zoning out.

1369
01:22:49,160 --> 01:22:51,040
Speaker 1: The other two are looking at him. What was he doing?

1370
01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:54,200
Speaker 1: And the next thing, you know, get Back evolves out

1371
01:22:54,240 --> 01:23:01,240
Speaker 1: of like two courts, two courts. It's magical. Okay, you

1372
01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:05,160
Speaker 1: write the song, you know you have something. Are you

1373
01:23:05,320 --> 01:23:12,040
Speaker 1: worried about nailing it in the recording? Uh? I never

1374
01:23:12,120 --> 01:23:16,400
Speaker 1: worry about that. That would be I'd be making that out.

1375
01:23:17,600 --> 01:23:19,680
Speaker 1: I really am in controlling the steet, you know, I

1376
01:23:19,800 --> 01:23:23,360
Speaker 1: really I know when it's not working, I don't know

1377
01:23:23,400 --> 01:23:29,120
Speaker 1: what it is. Um you know, I mean I was

1378
01:23:29,200 --> 01:23:31,679
Speaker 1: pushing myself so hard. Does it say one that rightcord?

1379
01:23:32,520 --> 01:23:35,000
Speaker 1: I would prob these same things twenty times. Oh so

1380
01:23:35,160 --> 01:23:39,040
Speaker 1: it was what I wanted it to be. So it's

1381
01:23:39,040 --> 01:23:42,040
Speaker 1: a completely different era. You have a new label, it's

1382
01:23:42,080 --> 01:23:46,120
Speaker 1: a new era MTV. You have a song that is

1383
01:23:46,560 --> 01:23:50,840
Speaker 1: obvious smash. Does everybody say get let's get behind this,

1384
01:23:51,000 --> 01:23:53,719
Speaker 1: let's make a video, or do they put the record

1385
01:23:53,800 --> 01:23:55,760
Speaker 1: out and say, well let's see what happens. Oh no,

1386
01:23:56,680 --> 01:23:59,960
Speaker 1: Jim Marsa Jim Marsa was the head of the company.

1387
01:24:00,400 --> 01:24:03,439
Speaker 1: Gary Gersh was the n R guy, and French Shi

1388
01:24:03,520 --> 01:24:07,160
Speaker 1: Gautier the late French shiputy. It was the art department.

1389
01:24:08,960 --> 01:24:11,720
Speaker 1: They were they knew what they've got. I think it

1390
01:24:11,800 --> 01:24:13,880
Speaker 1: was a lot of good will towards me at that point.

1391
01:24:13,960 --> 01:24:16,479
Speaker 1: I think people would watch Christalists and they're like, oh man,

1392
01:24:17,240 --> 01:24:19,880
Speaker 1: And then with a solo album, I think there was

1393
01:24:20,160 --> 01:24:24,559
Speaker 1: a certain empathy, you know, people want to see me succeed.

1394
01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:29,200
Speaker 1: What about the video, Well, I used the same guy

1395
01:24:29,320 --> 01:24:32,200
Speaker 1: that I used for Change, and I was very happy

1396
01:24:32,280 --> 01:24:34,960
Speaker 1: with that video, so I suggested him and he came

1397
01:24:35,000 --> 01:24:39,559
Speaker 1: along and made a great, great video. The to tell

1398
01:24:39,600 --> 01:24:41,880
Speaker 1: you about am I and Gary Gersh, I mean, I

1399
01:24:42,080 --> 01:24:45,519
Speaker 1: was in New York City mixing the record, staying at

1400
01:24:45,560 --> 01:24:50,000
Speaker 1: the Mareflower, and we went to see a David Bailey exhibition, me,

1401
01:24:50,200 --> 01:24:54,600
Speaker 1: Stephen Michelle and Gary Gersh. David Bailey is like the

1402
01:24:54,680 --> 01:24:59,519
Speaker 1: premier photographer of the sixties, you know, and this is

1403
01:24:59,520 --> 01:25:02,479
Speaker 1: a crazy wins Paul mcconde and meet Chuck the Shrimp,

1404
01:25:02,680 --> 01:25:06,080
Speaker 1: you know, you know, it's just fabulous stuff. And I

1405
01:25:06,160 --> 01:25:08,560
Speaker 1: turned around to Gary and said you should do the

1406
01:25:08,640 --> 01:25:11,479
Speaker 1: album cover. The next thing. I know, I'm in the

1407
01:25:11,560 --> 01:25:17,760
Speaker 1: Concorde flying to London to work with David Bailey. I mean,

1408
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:20,120
Speaker 1: that's that's what my life was like. I mean, you

1409
01:25:20,240 --> 01:25:22,960
Speaker 1: think you think this is like I mean, never, Sary,

1410
01:25:22,960 --> 01:25:25,240
Speaker 1: you asked me a question. I can give you like

1411
01:25:25,360 --> 01:25:27,920
Speaker 1: four stories that led to that. You know the answer.

1412
01:25:28,520 --> 01:25:31,280
Speaker 1: But you know, hey, you know, Gary, you should do

1413
01:25:31,400 --> 01:25:34,640
Speaker 1: the album cover Concorde, here we go, you know, and

1414
01:25:35,200 --> 01:25:37,800
Speaker 1: working with David Bailey, he shot the album cover. I

1415
01:25:37,840 --> 01:25:43,560
Speaker 1: mean's just this times, just things cover less they do

1416
01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:46,880
Speaker 1: sometimes the only energy in the world that's that you've

1417
01:25:46,920 --> 01:25:50,839
Speaker 1: been looking for to to lock together like a wooden puzzle,

1418
01:25:51,160 --> 01:25:55,479
Speaker 1: you know, and it just clicks and it did. What

1419
01:25:55,760 --> 01:26:01,599
Speaker 1: was it like seeing yourself on TV ad infinitum um. Well,

1420
01:26:02,680 --> 01:26:05,479
Speaker 1: it became a bit much because you know, I think

1421
01:26:05,520 --> 01:26:07,800
Speaker 1: Missing You was like number one on MTV for like

1422
01:26:08,680 --> 01:26:11,000
Speaker 1: fifteen weeks, and there's a point where you want to say,

1423
01:26:11,600 --> 01:26:14,640
Speaker 1: that's really great, thank you, you know. And I was

1424
01:26:14,680 --> 01:26:16,479
Speaker 1: still a bit shy about it. I couldn't do out

1425
01:26:16,479 --> 01:26:20,280
Speaker 1: in New York, whereas before I could go out, but

1426
01:26:20,439 --> 01:26:22,519
Speaker 1: now when I went in a bar would put Missing

1427
01:26:22,560 --> 01:26:24,479
Speaker 1: You on the tube box and started buying many shrinks

1428
01:26:24,560 --> 01:26:28,080
Speaker 1: and stuff. It was just different and I didn't didn't

1429
01:26:28,120 --> 01:26:30,200
Speaker 1: really know how to deal with it at first. It

1430
01:26:30,360 --> 01:26:32,960
Speaker 1: wasn't that comfortable because it was really a step forward

1431
01:26:33,040 --> 01:26:37,400
Speaker 1: from being famous to really famous. You know, a different world.

1432
01:26:38,000 --> 01:26:39,840
Speaker 1: And the reason I love New York is that just

1433
01:26:39,920 --> 01:26:43,000
Speaker 1: disappearance the ground. So it's a different world for me.

1434
01:26:45,439 --> 01:26:48,719
Speaker 1: And how much pressure was there on the follow up album?

1435
01:26:50,120 --> 01:26:55,160
Speaker 1: No question? He offered me a large amount of money,

1436
01:26:55,360 --> 01:26:58,320
Speaker 1: which I needed better. I hadn't go any money. Um

1437
01:26:59,320 --> 01:27:01,519
Speaker 1: as seen how someone it's to bias. It just gives

1438
01:27:01,560 --> 01:27:04,800
Speaker 1: a record and I just looked at my cattle and

1439
01:27:04,920 --> 01:27:08,599
Speaker 1: looked what I've got, went to work with Ivan, banged

1440
01:27:08,680 --> 01:27:11,560
Speaker 1: up some songs and made Damascus Smiles album. It's a

1441
01:27:11,640 --> 01:27:15,120
Speaker 1: different album completely. There's there's like four or five extremely

1442
01:27:16,479 --> 01:27:19,240
Speaker 1: strong songs on that one. But I wasn't shooting to

1443
01:27:19,880 --> 01:27:23,439
Speaker 1: replicate successive Missy. That would have been in basilic, you know,

1444
01:27:23,520 --> 01:27:27,320
Speaker 1: it would have been just stupid. It's like, write something

1445
01:27:27,400 --> 01:27:31,240
Speaker 1: that sounds like missing. It wasn't gonna happen. Once you

1446
01:27:31,439 --> 01:27:35,720
Speaker 1: reach that pinnacle, to what degree are you striving to

1447
01:27:35,840 --> 01:27:39,120
Speaker 1: replicate the success And to what degree you're disappointed when

1448
01:27:39,200 --> 01:27:42,720
Speaker 1: you don't reach the holy grail once again. Well, it

1449
01:27:42,800 --> 01:27:45,760
Speaker 1: didn't bother me. I honestly thought if I could be

1450
01:27:45,880 --> 01:27:48,160
Speaker 1: and it's in the documentary, but I meant to, if

1451
01:27:48,200 --> 01:27:52,200
Speaker 1: I could establish myself as a singer, and right then

1452
01:27:52,240 --> 01:27:54,519
Speaker 1: I could make any kind of recordsitant to make every

1453
01:27:54,600 --> 01:27:57,120
Speaker 1: other year. I wasn't going to be on the Merry

1454
01:27:57,160 --> 01:28:00,800
Speaker 1: go round. I could write my own ticket. There always

1455
01:28:00,840 --> 01:28:03,640
Speaker 1: be money coming in. It wasn't going to be do

1456
01:28:03,960 --> 01:28:07,320
Speaker 1: or die. It was just art, you know. I didn't

1457
01:28:07,360 --> 01:28:11,680
Speaker 1: see any reason to be Madonna, you know, I mean,

1458
01:28:11,760 --> 01:28:14,639
Speaker 1: that's that's a that's a whole different thing. Man. That's

1459
01:28:14,720 --> 01:28:18,400
Speaker 1: like that's a day job in itself. And you specifically

1460
01:28:18,439 --> 01:28:21,360
Speaker 1: said that's not me. Well, yeah, no, I honestly did.

1461
01:28:21,680 --> 01:28:25,160
Speaker 1: I want you to just make great records and have

1462
01:28:25,360 --> 01:28:28,240
Speaker 1: a follow me. I mean, what else is there? I mean,

1463
01:28:28,280 --> 01:28:30,320
Speaker 1: after a couple of years of being top of the pops,

1464
01:28:31,080 --> 01:28:33,840
Speaker 1: if you follow that path, you usually finished. But if

1465
01:28:33,880 --> 01:28:36,280
Speaker 1: you do the Richard Thompson thing or whatever, it is,

1466
01:28:36,439 --> 01:28:39,760
Speaker 1: like it sounds and so well, you know, you try,

1467
01:28:39,880 --> 01:28:42,680
Speaker 1: and you know, give the best you've got for the

1468
01:28:42,760 --> 01:28:46,400
Speaker 1: period you're in, but it's it's if you can make

1469
01:28:46,479 --> 01:28:51,080
Speaker 1: it last for five years. You've done something almost impossible.

1470
01:28:52,840 --> 01:28:57,000
Speaker 1: You know, I'm here after forty years. It isn't chance,

1471
01:28:57,400 --> 01:29:00,320
Speaker 1: you know, so I know chance to Emford's old is

1472
01:29:00,400 --> 01:29:03,960
Speaker 1: publishing your interest in missing you go with it or

1473
01:29:04,040 --> 01:29:07,120
Speaker 1: you still have I got it back in last year.

1474
01:29:07,840 --> 01:29:10,240
Speaker 1: I finally got the publishing back on Missing You last year.

1475
01:29:11,560 --> 01:29:14,479
Speaker 1: So now it's it's you know, it's it's really worth

1476
01:29:14,600 --> 01:29:17,840
Speaker 1: something there and you plan to hold on to it.

1477
01:29:17,880 --> 01:29:21,160
Speaker 1: Or if someone made as if somebody comes out that

1478
01:29:21,200 --> 01:29:23,880
Speaker 1: would work in obviously twenty million for my publishing. I

1479
01:29:23,920 --> 01:29:28,200
Speaker 1: would certainly put down my coffee cup and and turn

1480
01:29:28,280 --> 01:29:30,320
Speaker 1: around and talk to him, you know, I certainly would,

1481
01:29:31,000 --> 01:29:34,400
Speaker 1: And at this point in my life that would just

1482
01:29:34,520 --> 01:29:40,360
Speaker 1: give me complete freedoms do anything. I won't really Okay.

1483
01:29:41,280 --> 01:29:46,240
Speaker 1: And so you're making these records with E M I America.

1484
01:29:46,880 --> 01:29:50,040
Speaker 1: And one other theme is on the in the movie

1485
01:29:50,240 --> 01:29:52,720
Speaker 1: is whenever you really are an inch away you have

1486
01:29:52,840 --> 01:29:57,080
Speaker 1: great product, something happens with the record company. So what

1487
01:29:57,280 --> 01:29:59,880
Speaker 1: happened with E M I? And then certainly a mob

1488
01:30:00,040 --> 01:30:04,400
Speaker 1: go there after that field? So tell us about those situations.

1489
01:30:04,840 --> 01:30:08,080
Speaker 1: E M I. I had this record call will always returned.

1490
01:30:08,680 --> 01:30:10,840
Speaker 1: We have a number one single in our and our

1491
01:30:11,920 --> 01:30:15,280
Speaker 1: records and whatever it is radio and record Yeah, yeah,

1492
01:30:15,479 --> 01:30:18,120
Speaker 1: in the older and I went to Germany. Were run

1493
01:30:18,240 --> 01:30:24,400
Speaker 1: by Robert Kardashian. No, yes, the big Kig right special

1494
01:30:24,520 --> 01:30:28,280
Speaker 1: k but yeah, and I went to Germany to do

1495
01:30:28,680 --> 01:30:32,560
Speaker 1: some TV to promote the single. I came back and

1496
01:30:32,680 --> 01:30:37,120
Speaker 1: the record had gone from number one to like And

1497
01:30:37,240 --> 01:30:39,640
Speaker 1: what had happened is the E M I man in

1498
01:30:39,840 --> 01:30:45,080
Speaker 1: My America and overnight become in my Manhattan. And they

1499
01:30:45,280 --> 01:30:48,400
Speaker 1: changed the head of the company, that changed the offices everything,

1500
01:30:49,320 --> 01:30:53,719
Speaker 1: and it was really great. I have nothing. Joe Smith

1501
01:30:53,840 --> 01:30:56,960
Speaker 1: came in. He was great. He tried to salvage everything.

1502
01:30:57,040 --> 01:30:59,960
Speaker 1: But the team gets broken up and you can't blame

1503
01:31:00,000 --> 01:31:03,920
Speaker 1: on anybody. It just is how business goes. And they

1504
01:31:04,080 --> 01:31:07,160
Speaker 1: tried everything that made the right videos and I got

1505
01:31:07,240 --> 01:31:09,040
Speaker 1: truly grain to manage for me and it was like

1506
01:31:09,160 --> 01:31:11,640
Speaker 1: here we go, but he couldn't. You can't selve me

1507
01:31:11,800 --> 01:31:14,439
Speaker 1: something like that. It's a train wreck. I mean, even

1508
01:31:14,479 --> 01:31:17,600
Speaker 1: to get involved this heroic and I E M. I

1509
01:31:17,720 --> 01:31:20,800
Speaker 1: were nothing but great with me. They were just stupendous.

1510
01:31:21,520 --> 01:31:24,080
Speaker 1: The new regime was cool. Everything was cool. They were

1511
01:31:24,160 --> 01:31:28,960
Speaker 1: nice people. But yeah, sometimes it happens. You know, you

1512
01:31:29,080 --> 01:31:32,519
Speaker 1: might go, I had a hit single. I had a

1513
01:31:32,600 --> 01:31:37,679
Speaker 1: song in the true Romance movie Quentin Tarantino. Uh Tony

1514
01:31:37,760 --> 01:31:41,760
Speaker 1: Scott shot the video filmmaker and Monument Valley, and that

1515
01:31:41,920 --> 01:31:44,600
Speaker 1: was really my best work, best fan I've ever been in,

1516
01:31:45,840 --> 01:31:51,439
Speaker 1: best songs, the whole thing, and a month out, imago folds.

1517
01:31:52,800 --> 01:31:56,000
Speaker 1: It just happens. All this stuff just happens. You can't

1518
01:31:56,040 --> 01:31:59,240
Speaker 1: take it personally. A couple of years later, I bought

1519
01:31:59,280 --> 01:32:03,080
Speaker 1: the record and re released it, so I own it

1520
01:32:04,320 --> 01:32:08,360
Speaker 1: and so I don't have to watch the record just

1521
01:32:08,479 --> 01:32:11,759
Speaker 1: get cooked in weeds. I can still promote that record,

1522
01:32:11,880 --> 01:32:16,040
Speaker 1: and I'm proud of that record. Well, you're very upbeating

1523
01:32:16,160 --> 01:32:20,280
Speaker 1: philosophical about all this in the movie, you don't seem

1524
01:32:20,439 --> 01:32:23,720
Speaker 1: quite as settled. What do you want snow? That was

1525
01:32:24,040 --> 01:32:28,640
Speaker 1: the pandemic? How about anti antidepressants therapy? And they come

1526
01:32:28,720 --> 01:32:32,720
Speaker 1: in no no alcohol, boy, it's it's I think it's

1527
01:32:34,000 --> 01:32:36,000
Speaker 1: it's the pandemic. You know, when when you have that

1528
01:32:36,120 --> 01:32:39,280
Speaker 1: much time to think and everything's going wrong, I'm sure

1529
01:32:39,360 --> 01:32:43,920
Speaker 1: it's gonna have a shared let's do it. But you

1530
01:32:44,040 --> 01:32:46,000
Speaker 1: get pragmatic when you go. You know, if you've been

1531
01:32:46,040 --> 01:32:48,920
Speaker 1: around the block a few times. You learned to live

1532
01:32:49,000 --> 01:32:59,040
Speaker 1: with the stuff that happens. So how does that English

1533
01:32:59,160 --> 01:33:03,479
Speaker 1: come to be? Well? I was. I went to Epic

1534
01:33:04,160 --> 01:33:06,479
Speaker 1: to get a record deal, and the A and R

1535
01:33:06,600 --> 01:33:10,639
Speaker 1: guy I didn't like my songs and I really wanted

1536
01:33:10,680 --> 01:33:13,599
Speaker 1: to be on Epic. And Trudy Green, my manager, would

1537
01:33:13,640 --> 01:33:15,360
Speaker 1: have liked me to be there. She was the biggest

1538
01:33:15,439 --> 01:33:22,200
Speaker 1: best brutalist in the classiest record level. And me and

1539
01:33:22,280 --> 01:33:24,120
Speaker 1: Trudy left the me scene and I was going like,

1540
01:33:24,240 --> 01:33:26,320
Speaker 1: I can't work with that guy. You know, he doesn't

1541
01:33:26,360 --> 01:33:30,400
Speaker 1: even like me. And I remember walking down Madison Avenue

1542
01:33:30,720 --> 01:33:36,320
Speaker 1: and saying to Trudy, I'll start a band. I'll start

1543
01:33:36,400 --> 01:33:39,080
Speaker 1: a band and we'll we'll be on Epic, but I'll

1544
01:33:39,080 --> 01:33:41,320
Speaker 1: be the singer in the band. Was just starting the

1545
01:33:41,439 --> 01:33:47,639
Speaker 1: Richard Griffith R. Yeah, yeah, yes, it was. You said

1546
01:33:47,640 --> 01:33:50,120
Speaker 1: you're gonna start a band. Yeah. I went all of them.

1547
01:33:50,240 --> 01:33:52,519
Speaker 1: I went to England looking at guitar players. I was

1548
01:33:52,560 --> 01:33:55,519
Speaker 1: going to track down Johnny Mark to see if you

1549
01:33:55,640 --> 01:33:58,240
Speaker 1: knew anybody, and none of that happened. I didn't do

1550
01:33:58,280 --> 01:34:00,479
Speaker 1: any of it night In the end, I I want

1551
01:34:00,520 --> 01:34:03,560
Speaker 1: to work with Jonathan Kane Neil Sean, Ricky Phillips, and

1552
01:34:03,600 --> 01:34:08,479
Speaker 1: dinkashanovo Um. It's said about five months to arrive at

1553
01:34:08,560 --> 01:34:12,000
Speaker 1: that point or four months, and from that point on

1554
01:34:12,120 --> 01:34:15,160
Speaker 1: he just took off. Well, you had a history with

1555
01:34:15,320 --> 01:34:19,639
Speaker 1: Jonathan Kane. How did you get Neil Shaan involved through

1556
01:34:19,760 --> 01:34:23,719
Speaker 1: Jonathan Kane? And Neil was just like, Journey is not happening.

1557
01:34:23,800 --> 01:34:25,840
Speaker 1: I'm in Well yeah, I mean, you know, I mean

1558
01:34:26,160 --> 01:34:29,559
Speaker 1: I think they always had problems there. They're always seems

1559
01:34:29,560 --> 01:34:33,599
Speaker 1: to be very political, and nothing was happening with them.

1560
01:34:34,840 --> 01:34:39,320
Speaker 1: And Neil just wants to play, you know, he just

1561
01:34:39,439 --> 01:34:42,240
Speaker 1: wants to plug in and play. So now you go

1562
01:34:42,439 --> 01:34:47,160
Speaker 1: back with the band and what is what do they say? Yeah?

1563
01:34:48,760 --> 01:34:50,880
Speaker 1: I knew it, you know, you walk in with those

1564
01:34:50,920 --> 01:34:55,320
Speaker 1: guys and yeah, you know, guy, I'm gonna like to

1565
01:34:55,400 --> 01:34:57,720
Speaker 1: STWN And it was like, we love it, We'll sign it.

1566
01:34:58,160 --> 01:35:01,240
Speaker 1: He's a very large check, you know, and can we

1567
01:35:01,320 --> 01:35:04,200
Speaker 1: have your publishing? And you know, how are you doing?

1568
01:35:04,360 --> 01:35:06,080
Speaker 1: Can we have dinners tonight? You know, it's just like

1569
01:35:06,160 --> 01:35:09,240
Speaker 1: it's certainly in a different level. And I got a

1570
01:35:09,439 --> 01:35:15,360
Speaker 1: huge publishing advance from Sony and everything was back on track,

1571
01:35:15,720 --> 01:35:17,840
Speaker 1: you know, And how did you end up doing the

1572
01:35:17,920 --> 01:35:21,519
Speaker 1: Diane Warrens song. Well, we've done the whole album and

1573
01:35:21,640 --> 01:35:23,800
Speaker 1: the this is a great story and the A and

1574
01:35:23,880 --> 01:35:27,640
Speaker 1: our guy left us alone. Who is they say in

1575
01:35:27,720 --> 01:35:32,479
Speaker 1: our person? It was done Grayson, Okay, yeah with us,

1576
01:35:32,520 --> 01:35:34,200
Speaker 1: so you can sell I don't want to, you know,

1577
01:35:34,479 --> 01:35:37,120
Speaker 1: it's a nice guy. And and I went to the

1578
01:35:37,200 --> 01:35:39,600
Speaker 1: ban and said, listen, Don's been really great. You know,

1579
01:35:39,680 --> 01:35:41,519
Speaker 1: he staid out the way most of the time, and

1580
01:35:41,600 --> 01:35:44,360
Speaker 1: he's he's trying to be as flying on the wall

1581
01:35:44,439 --> 01:35:48,320
Speaker 1: as possible. And he asked his song, and I know, Diane,

1582
01:35:48,360 --> 01:35:50,200
Speaker 1: it would be great if you just tried the song,

1583
01:35:50,360 --> 01:35:54,599
Speaker 1: you know, at least you know, it would be just good.

1584
01:35:55,439 --> 01:35:58,599
Speaker 1: And he said okay, and so it went in at

1585
01:35:58,640 --> 01:36:01,200
Speaker 1: the eleventh thound. Could when I see you smile just

1586
01:36:01,960 --> 01:36:05,439
Speaker 1: to sort of show the company that we were capable

1587
01:36:05,479 --> 01:36:08,000
Speaker 1: of working with them when we liked doing and everything

1588
01:36:08,120 --> 01:36:10,560
Speaker 1: was cool. And we just looked at each other like,

1589
01:36:10,600 --> 01:36:15,040
Speaker 1: oh no, you know, it's at it. And the big

1590
01:36:15,160 --> 01:36:19,960
Speaker 1: question was then at Frontline h K Management, was do

1591
01:36:20,080 --> 01:36:24,040
Speaker 1: we not do this song um or do we have

1592
01:36:24,120 --> 01:36:27,280
Speaker 1: a number one single? It was like that that awful

1593
01:36:27,600 --> 01:36:31,120
Speaker 1: folk in the road, you know, Okay, Well, it ends

1594
01:36:31,200 --> 01:36:35,240
Speaker 1: up being a huge hit. Yeah, but then the band implodes.

1595
01:36:35,320 --> 01:36:37,320
Speaker 1: Why does the band implode? Well, I think it's a

1596
01:36:37,360 --> 01:36:40,680
Speaker 1: lot of tension, a lot of egos, a lot of um,

1597
01:36:41,640 --> 01:36:47,479
Speaker 1: too much business not of music, you know, and when

1598
01:36:47,520 --> 01:36:50,800
Speaker 1: the band falls apart, you say another day in music

1599
01:36:50,880 --> 01:36:55,160
Speaker 1: business or you're pretty disillusioned depressed about I went back

1600
01:36:55,200 --> 01:36:57,120
Speaker 1: to my house in pound Ridge and that was the end.

1601
01:36:57,320 --> 01:36:59,559
Speaker 1: I really didn't want to do anything else or ever

1602
01:36:59,680 --> 01:37:02,800
Speaker 1: again with the music. You know, I had enough money

1603
01:37:02,880 --> 01:37:07,120
Speaker 1: coming in at a lovely house in a wood and uh,

1604
01:37:07,720 --> 01:37:10,200
Speaker 1: it was just like I just didn't care. It wasn't like,

1605
01:37:10,360 --> 01:37:13,080
Speaker 1: you know, it's sacrifice. It was like I just want

1606
01:37:13,120 --> 01:37:15,800
Speaker 1: to get out. And then I got, after about a

1607
01:37:15,920 --> 01:37:17,559
Speaker 1: year and a half, Agot offer to deal with him

1608
01:37:17,560 --> 01:37:20,880
Speaker 1: algo and I did all these songs, you know. So

1609
01:37:21,040 --> 01:37:23,960
Speaker 1: I went back in to make one lass solo record

1610
01:37:24,240 --> 01:37:29,160
Speaker 1: about New York City, and like I said before, Temple

1611
01:37:29,200 --> 01:37:32,120
Speaker 1: Bar was toldly my best record. Okay, but then the

1612
01:37:32,240 --> 01:37:35,519
Speaker 1: being the label blows up. Yeah, so how do you

1613
01:37:35,560 --> 01:37:38,840
Speaker 1: get pulled back in one more time? Well, ron Stone,

1614
01:37:39,280 --> 01:37:43,439
Speaker 1: ron Stone, I I see making Temple Bar, it was

1615
01:37:43,560 --> 01:37:45,840
Speaker 1: like the watershed moment. I went back to be a writer.

1616
01:37:47,680 --> 01:37:51,280
Speaker 1: The slightly corporate element of bad English and nauseate me.

1617
01:37:51,400 --> 01:37:53,320
Speaker 1: But I was I didn't want to do with myself,

1618
01:37:54,320 --> 01:37:57,080
Speaker 1: and I thought I had to redeemed myself. That's the truth.

1619
01:37:57,600 --> 01:38:00,160
Speaker 1: And I saw. I wrote the record the Downtown out

1620
01:38:00,600 --> 01:38:05,120
Speaker 1: More in God's Shadow, Glittering Price. This this was like

1621
01:38:05,320 --> 01:38:10,400
Speaker 1: the best I ever got, and it reawaked my interest

1622
01:38:10,439 --> 01:38:15,599
Speaker 1: in writing. I couldn't stop. I felt like I'd become

1623
01:38:15,600 --> 01:38:19,479
Speaker 1: an artist together, and uh, I wrote a record. I

1624
01:38:19,640 --> 01:38:24,080
Speaker 1: drove across America when the record company went down. I

1625
01:38:24,160 --> 01:38:27,120
Speaker 1: went to New Orleans. I drove in a cheap Cherokee

1626
01:38:27,240 --> 01:38:31,000
Speaker 1: down to New Orleans, sent up through Kentucky to Ohio,

1627
01:38:32,120 --> 01:38:36,720
Speaker 1: and then east to New York City back home. But

1628
01:38:36,840 --> 01:38:39,639
Speaker 1: I wrote most of that album When You Were Mine

1629
01:38:40,360 --> 01:38:43,799
Speaker 1: on that trip. And I've fallen in love with country

1630
01:38:43,920 --> 01:38:48,599
Speaker 1: music again, as with Temple Buds, a slight country influence,

1631
01:38:49,200 --> 01:38:53,200
Speaker 1: baritone guitars and stuff. I'm so lons I could tries

1632
01:38:53,240 --> 01:38:56,840
Speaker 1: on that, but on When You Were Mine, it's really

1633
01:38:56,920 --> 01:39:02,280
Speaker 1: a bluesia, more folky kind of approach. And uh, you know,

1634
01:39:02,560 --> 01:39:06,240
Speaker 1: there's no choice. You have to make this, these these albums.

1635
01:39:06,320 --> 01:39:10,479
Speaker 1: It's not like a great. You know, it's not biblical,

1636
01:39:10,640 --> 01:39:14,400
Speaker 1: it's what I do. It's just making music. So how

1637
01:39:14,439 --> 01:39:16,519
Speaker 1: do you end up getting hooked up with Alison Krause

1638
01:39:16,560 --> 01:39:19,920
Speaker 1: which is in the movie but We Got You Now? Well? I, Um,

1639
01:39:20,240 --> 01:39:22,240
Speaker 1: I was in Nashville, I was writing songs. I was

1640
01:39:22,280 --> 01:39:24,879
Speaker 1: doing a Goodest It's album and I was re recording

1641
01:39:24,960 --> 01:39:27,040
Speaker 1: some songs and I got to Missing You and I thought, well,

1642
01:39:27,320 --> 01:39:28,960
Speaker 1: I can't do anything else with Missing You that I

1643
01:39:29,000 --> 01:39:32,040
Speaker 1: haven't been already. And I thought, well, I'll do with

1644
01:39:32,160 --> 01:39:34,479
Speaker 1: youuet who would I like to sing with? And I

1645
01:39:34,600 --> 01:39:39,160
Speaker 1: was watching the American Music Channel and Alliston was on

1646
01:39:39,280 --> 01:39:43,639
Speaker 1: that with New Favorite when I became aware of them

1647
01:39:44,439 --> 01:39:48,880
Speaker 1: and my manager wearing her manager and said, John would

1648
01:39:48,920 --> 01:39:52,639
Speaker 1: like you to sing I Missing You? And she said yes,

1649
01:39:53,640 --> 01:39:57,000
Speaker 1: Well she said yes. The record was very successful in

1650
01:39:57,120 --> 01:40:00,400
Speaker 1: the country world. But you continue to have a connection

1651
01:40:00,479 --> 01:40:07,760
Speaker 1: with Allison Ryan. Yeah, we're friends and um yeah, I

1652
01:40:07,800 --> 01:40:12,320
Speaker 1: mean we did another done limp so um laid down

1653
01:40:12,400 --> 01:40:16,600
Speaker 1: beside me and I was living in Nashville. You know

1654
01:40:16,720 --> 01:40:20,680
Speaker 1: we were close. Was it ever a romance? Um? You

1655
01:40:20,760 --> 01:40:26,479
Speaker 1: know that would be nice, okay? And then another big

1656
01:40:26,600 --> 01:40:29,320
Speaker 1: thing in the movies, you go out with Ringo. What

1657
01:40:29,439 --> 01:40:34,240
Speaker 1: you said, one and done. Now, Ringo historically goes out

1658
01:40:34,320 --> 01:40:38,400
Speaker 1: with different people. Oh, the band is somewhat solidified in

1659
01:40:38,479 --> 01:40:42,240
Speaker 1: the last couple of years. So you got to play

1660
01:40:42,320 --> 01:40:44,800
Speaker 1: with Ringo and meet Ringo, which of course is amazing.

1661
01:40:45,520 --> 01:40:48,559
Speaker 1: But in the everyday experience of doing it, how did

1662
01:40:48,600 --> 01:40:52,959
Speaker 1: you feel? Well? It was tough. You know, it's extremely

1663
01:40:53,040 --> 01:40:55,400
Speaker 1: competitive with the All Stars. Everybody's trying to do the

1664
01:40:55,520 --> 01:40:58,320
Speaker 1: right thing and shine, I'm just trying to play bassis.

1665
01:40:58,320 --> 01:41:00,960
Speaker 1: Shut up. I would have just played bass and not

1666
01:41:01,200 --> 01:41:04,280
Speaker 1: some if I could have, because if you look across

1667
01:41:04,320 --> 01:41:07,640
Speaker 1: the station there he is a strangoes stuff, you know.

1668
01:41:08,720 --> 01:41:12,400
Speaker 1: And it was stressful, you know. I mean, yeah, I

1669
01:41:12,439 --> 01:41:15,680
Speaker 1: mean I'm pretty I played through a high standard. But

1670
01:41:16,439 --> 01:41:19,760
Speaker 1: he played with Paul McCarthy and so I had to

1671
01:41:19,840 --> 01:41:24,480
Speaker 1: go back to playing the base and nothing but respect.

1672
01:41:24,960 --> 01:41:27,479
Speaker 1: I mean, how could you have anything? But I was nervous,

1673
01:41:27,640 --> 01:41:31,439
Speaker 1: you know, But it was it was it was very demanding.

1674
01:41:31,920 --> 01:41:35,080
Speaker 1: It was really demanding. It. I think that the fact

1675
01:41:35,160 --> 01:41:40,320
Speaker 1: that there was Paul Carrock, Sheilary, Colin Hay, there's a

1676
01:41:40,400 --> 01:41:45,040
Speaker 1: lot of very famous individuals on stage, and I think

1677
01:41:45,120 --> 01:41:47,800
Speaker 1: we go there first to play with more musical kind

1678
01:41:47,880 --> 01:41:53,760
Speaker 1: of situations. That's what I think. And when did you

1679
01:41:53,840 --> 01:41:57,599
Speaker 1: realize you didn't want to do it again? What the ring?

1680
01:41:58,320 --> 01:42:04,640
Speaker 1: Yeah they won't. Well that's why I'm asking. So when

1681
01:42:04,680 --> 01:42:06,799
Speaker 1: I went through your head, you showed up a rehearsal

1682
01:42:06,920 --> 01:42:12,360
Speaker 1: and he said, what the fund did I sign up for? Yeah? Yeah,

1683
01:42:12,600 --> 01:42:15,320
Speaker 1: you know it's tough. It's a tough gig. Everybody's like

1684
01:42:15,560 --> 01:42:18,080
Speaker 1: joking and everybody's like, you know, I didn't do that.

1685
01:42:18,360 --> 01:42:20,439
Speaker 1: It's like getting the funk out, you know, where I

1686
01:42:20,439 --> 01:42:22,360
Speaker 1: would stop a song and Sam, I, it's just the

1687
01:42:22,479 --> 01:42:25,639
Speaker 1: right note, you know? Am I playing the right note?

1688
01:42:25,680 --> 01:42:27,479
Speaker 1: Here in the bottom is this is this isn't the

1689
01:42:27,600 --> 01:42:31,519
Speaker 1: right key. People just walk away stuff, And I'm going,

1690
01:42:31,600 --> 01:42:34,160
Speaker 1: like Jesus Christ, can we just sit down and him

1691
01:42:34,200 --> 01:42:36,439
Speaker 1: through this stuff? But there's the thing about it being

1692
01:42:36,600 --> 01:42:39,840
Speaker 1: um low impact. I think there's the thing where you're

1693
01:42:39,840 --> 01:42:43,360
Speaker 1: supposed to show up and play made people smile, shakegounds

1694
01:42:43,400 --> 01:42:45,400
Speaker 1: and walk off, you know. But I think he's he's

1695
01:42:45,400 --> 01:42:48,400
Speaker 1: got a really good cool band now and uh we

1696
01:42:48,640 --> 01:42:51,640
Speaker 1: was on a bit of a perfectionist. I would like

1697
01:42:51,800 --> 01:42:56,839
Speaker 1: to think that I'm a perfectionist in that situation. Okay,

1698
01:42:56,960 --> 01:43:01,280
Speaker 1: going back to the songwriting. You started out doing it yourself,

1699
01:43:01,800 --> 01:43:03,800
Speaker 1: but if you look at your credits, there's a lot

1700
01:43:03,840 --> 01:43:07,519
Speaker 1: of co writes. Was that something you were pushed into?

1701
01:43:07,720 --> 01:43:10,840
Speaker 1: Is something you don't? You know? I found myself. I

1702
01:43:10,920 --> 01:43:13,080
Speaker 1: can write by myself standing on my head, but I

1703
01:43:13,120 --> 01:43:15,240
Speaker 1: don't really do a good trouble of it. I think that,

1704
01:43:16,640 --> 01:43:20,920
Speaker 1: uh is it a d D when you can't concentrate?

1705
01:43:21,240 --> 01:43:24,920
Speaker 1: What is what they call a d h D? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,

1706
01:43:25,320 --> 01:43:27,360
Speaker 1: I think I've got that. If I have somebody in

1707
01:43:27,439 --> 01:43:30,439
Speaker 1: front of me and the only play like two chords,

1708
01:43:30,840 --> 01:43:33,600
Speaker 1: and I take everything from that point and run with it,

1709
01:43:33,680 --> 01:43:35,200
Speaker 1: do the lyric can write the rest of the song

1710
01:43:35,240 --> 01:43:37,519
Speaker 1: of the mountain and the whole thing. As long as

1711
01:43:37,560 --> 01:43:40,639
Speaker 1: I have somebody in front of me, I'll write a song.

1712
01:43:41,840 --> 01:43:44,640
Speaker 1: It's either that are extreme lessons, you know, and it

1713
01:43:44,680 --> 01:43:48,360
Speaker 1: could be that too, But I need a sounding board.

1714
01:43:48,560 --> 01:43:52,439
Speaker 1: I need someone to bounce off to entertain. Maybe it's

1715
01:43:52,439 --> 01:43:56,200
Speaker 1: a show off too, I don't know. But if somebody

1716
01:43:56,200 --> 01:43:59,920
Speaker 1: plays me a minor chord and I play something in

1717
01:44:00,040 --> 01:44:03,600
Speaker 1: the base, that isn't necessarily what you would think was

1718
01:44:03,640 --> 01:44:05,960
Speaker 1: going to happen between the minor code and the Madge goode.

1719
01:44:06,680 --> 01:44:09,640
Speaker 1: I'll suddenly have a song, but I won't get that

1720
01:44:09,840 --> 01:44:12,960
Speaker 1: input without the guy playing the minor chord. So it

1721
01:44:13,000 --> 01:44:16,880
Speaker 1: would much preferred seven days a week to write a

1722
01:44:16,960 --> 01:44:20,479
Speaker 1: song with somebody. Me and Glenn Burnar toll to till

1723
01:44:20,960 --> 01:44:25,519
Speaker 1: and write stuff that makes me wonder how we did it.

1724
01:44:26,120 --> 01:44:29,360
Speaker 1: But it's like completely spontaneous, and I am best at

1725
01:44:29,400 --> 01:44:33,000
Speaker 1: being spontaneous. I keep a lot of notebooks, write down

1726
01:44:33,080 --> 01:44:36,160
Speaker 1: phrases all the time. If I'm reading a book, I

1727
01:44:36,280 --> 01:44:38,800
Speaker 1: see a passage go by and go that's great. How

1728
01:44:38,920 --> 01:44:41,080
Speaker 1: did you think you know? I'm very about words. I

1729
01:44:41,200 --> 01:44:44,000
Speaker 1: love them. But when I'm singing and when I'm writing songs,

1730
01:44:44,240 --> 01:44:46,960
Speaker 1: a lot of it just happens to the back of

1731
01:44:47,040 --> 01:44:49,640
Speaker 1: my mind. I must have made a mental note, or

1732
01:44:49,680 --> 01:44:54,160
Speaker 1: I must have keyed into some image that would go

1733
01:44:54,320 --> 01:44:58,960
Speaker 1: over another image. But you don't know that you start singing.

1734
01:44:59,040 --> 01:45:01,400
Speaker 1: But I get the melody the words at the same time,

1735
01:45:02,479 --> 01:45:05,240
Speaker 1: and I have no idea how I do it. I

1736
01:45:05,360 --> 01:45:07,400
Speaker 1: can't take any credit for anything I've done there was

1737
01:45:07,439 --> 01:45:09,560
Speaker 1: any good, because I'm just making it up as I

1738
01:45:09,640 --> 01:45:12,240
Speaker 1: go along. I might take it home and finish it

1739
01:45:12,280 --> 01:45:17,000
Speaker 1: and polish it. I mean, sometimes the story songs like

1740
01:45:17,120 --> 01:45:22,920
Speaker 1: Bluebird Cafe or Masterpiece of Loneliness. They have real themes.

1741
01:45:23,320 --> 01:45:28,639
Speaker 1: And I don't know what's good and what's not anymore

1742
01:45:28,920 --> 01:45:31,960
Speaker 1: unless I believe it. And if I believe it, it's good.

1743
01:45:32,720 --> 01:45:36,680
Speaker 1: If I don't believe it, it's ships. Well, someone like

1744
01:45:36,840 --> 01:45:39,719
Speaker 1: Burton Dick, who played with sticks but lives in New Jersey.

1745
01:45:40,400 --> 01:45:42,040
Speaker 1: How do you hook up with all these people you

1746
01:45:42,120 --> 01:45:45,080
Speaker 1: meet Bernick? I need Bernick for I needed a guitar

1747
01:45:45,200 --> 01:45:50,320
Speaker 1: player when I was in New York and Uh, he'd

1748
01:45:50,320 --> 01:45:52,200
Speaker 1: been a fan that he'd actually lived next to us

1749
01:45:52,320 --> 01:45:54,320
Speaker 1: me in l A when I was staying with the

1750
01:45:54,400 --> 01:45:57,960
Speaker 1: babies and never said alone. But we got introduced. There's

1751
01:45:58,000 --> 01:46:02,040
Speaker 1: a great guy, and we started writing songs and we

1752
01:46:02,200 --> 01:46:05,840
Speaker 1: wrote Downtown, which is probably one of the most penultimate songs.

1753
01:46:06,080 --> 01:46:10,840
Speaker 1: It was just like Downtown. We wrote that on a

1754
01:46:10,880 --> 01:46:14,880
Speaker 1: beat offul Steinway at Sony. He had cigarette burns on

1755
01:46:14,960 --> 01:46:17,680
Speaker 1: it and he's missing. It's all attitude. And I was

1756
01:46:17,720 --> 01:46:20,360
Speaker 1: trying to write a song for true romance. I wrote

1757
01:46:20,360 --> 01:46:24,200
Speaker 1: a song with another guy, um Mark Spiral, called in

1758
01:46:24,320 --> 01:46:26,679
Speaker 1: Dreams to Go in the movie, but it was true

1759
01:46:26,800 --> 01:46:35,519
Speaker 1: romance the song and there's this beautiful irish, wasted lonesome

1760
01:46:35,600 --> 01:46:40,080
Speaker 1: East Coast, New York Manhattan thing on this Stein Way.

1761
01:46:40,120 --> 01:46:43,560
Speaker 1: It's all otta tune and Glenn's playing these chords and

1762
01:46:43,680 --> 01:46:49,040
Speaker 1: I would just jump up and um the engineer with hippocorde,

1763
01:46:49,120 --> 01:46:52,719
Speaker 1: that's sing the first line, and then he'd keep playing

1764
01:46:52,800 --> 01:46:55,920
Speaker 1: the songs about how about you know the most and

1765
01:46:55,960 --> 01:46:58,719
Speaker 1: then I would just shoot out of my seat again.

1766
01:46:59,760 --> 01:47:03,760
Speaker 1: You you can find me in the temple ball and

1767
01:47:04,439 --> 01:47:07,840
Speaker 1: and it's not making a cheeksil really. Sometimes it doesn't

1768
01:47:07,880 --> 01:47:11,760
Speaker 1: come out in one piece, it's just lines. But this

1769
01:47:11,960 --> 01:47:15,120
Speaker 1: thing comes out of the mist and I have no idea.

1770
01:47:15,960 --> 01:47:21,799
Speaker 1: There's no cleverness to it, there's no guile, there's no talent.

1771
01:47:22,280 --> 01:47:26,479
Speaker 1: It's just like completely it just comes out of nowhere.

1772
01:47:27,439 --> 01:47:31,280
Speaker 1: But at the same time you're editing, it's such a clear,

1773
01:47:33,439 --> 01:47:36,080
Speaker 1: focused way. I mean, I really knew where that song

1774
01:47:36,320 --> 01:47:40,400
Speaker 1: was going. And it's about scoring trunks, you know, and

1775
01:47:40,479 --> 01:47:42,240
Speaker 1: people think it's about all this sort of stuff, but

1776
01:47:42,320 --> 01:47:45,760
Speaker 1: it's a it's a very dark song. But you don't

1777
01:47:45,800 --> 01:47:50,080
Speaker 1: know what you've got, so you finished it, okay. So

1778
01:47:50,439 --> 01:47:53,360
Speaker 1: the movie has a lot of live shots from the

1779
01:47:53,520 --> 01:47:59,120
Speaker 1: present day. How long is this band been together? How

1780
01:47:59,200 --> 01:48:01,439
Speaker 1: did you find them because you mentioned earlier they all

1781
01:48:01,520 --> 01:48:05,920
Speaker 1: live in different locations. And then sometimes it's acoustic and

1782
01:48:06,040 --> 01:48:09,479
Speaker 1: sometimes it's elected. So tell me about all that. Well,

1783
01:48:09,520 --> 01:48:13,000
Speaker 1: I met Tim Hogan, the best player in Carmines Italian

1784
01:48:13,120 --> 01:48:18,679
Speaker 1: restaurant fifteen years ago. Okay, on Santa Monica Boulevard. Yeah,

1785
01:48:18,720 --> 01:48:21,360
Speaker 1: well no, no, no, no, no no no, in Times Square,

1786
01:48:22,000 --> 01:48:27,160
Speaker 1: oh that car yeah alright, hey, more than one common

1787
01:48:27,760 --> 01:48:30,519
Speaker 1: and uh yeah, And he offered me his coat. He

1788
01:48:30,680 --> 01:48:35,200
Speaker 1: was snowing outside and he said, to my coat, hadn't

1789
01:48:35,200 --> 01:48:38,439
Speaker 1: got a cold. And we became friends, and he became

1790
01:48:38,520 --> 01:48:42,840
Speaker 1: the best player. Uh, and became part of the organization

1791
01:48:42,960 --> 01:48:47,160
Speaker 1: and just to stellar human being. And then Mark was

1792
01:48:47,240 --> 01:48:49,960
Speaker 1: shouted was working in a guitar shot as a friend

1793
01:48:50,000 --> 01:48:54,240
Speaker 1: of Tim's, and we took Mark on. We couldn't get

1794
01:48:54,240 --> 01:48:56,840
Speaker 1: a steady guitar players, so I said, okay, let's you know,

1795
01:48:57,479 --> 01:48:59,400
Speaker 1: we have to play these shows. Let's give it all

1796
01:48:59,439 --> 01:49:05,240
Speaker 1: to Markam Mark. It's given a huge amount big shoes

1797
01:49:05,320 --> 01:49:08,840
Speaker 1: to step into. It took him a while, but he

1798
01:49:09,000 --> 01:49:14,400
Speaker 1: arrived um in spades. You know, he's a tremendous guzapa

1799
01:49:15,240 --> 01:49:17,720
Speaker 1: and and he's he's gone from being a guy that

1800
01:49:17,800 --> 01:49:21,559
Speaker 1: works in the guitar shot to a tremendous guitar player.

1801
01:49:22,160 --> 01:49:25,880
Speaker 1: And Alan Chiles was in the no Brakes dound that

1802
01:49:26,040 --> 01:49:30,439
Speaker 1: you see um at the beginning of the documentary, a

1803
01:49:30,560 --> 01:49:35,639
Speaker 1: young Alan childs with Karmene Rojas and Elsli, Tommy Mandel.

1804
01:49:35,840 --> 01:49:38,479
Speaker 1: They were all in the North Breaks. But I met

1805
01:49:38,880 --> 01:49:42,639
Speaker 1: Alan in Las Vegas a couple of years ago. He said,

1806
01:49:42,640 --> 01:49:44,000
Speaker 1: if you ever need a drummer, called me, and I

1807
01:49:44,120 --> 01:49:46,720
Speaker 1: called it. So that's it. And some of the days

1808
01:49:46,840 --> 01:49:53,000
Speaker 1: we do, like in theisis like storytellers and it's two acoustics,

1809
01:49:53,840 --> 01:49:56,800
Speaker 1: electric bass and drums, and you stop the show and

1810
01:49:56,840 --> 01:49:59,040
Speaker 1: you do requests, so you talk to the audience. You

1811
01:49:59,160 --> 01:50:04,479
Speaker 1: play these keys again, Downtown, Saint Patrick's Day, Masterpiece of Loneliness,

1812
01:50:04,560 --> 01:50:11,960
Speaker 1: Bluebird Cafe, in God's Shadow, in Dreams Missing You. It'sn't

1813
01:50:12,120 --> 01:50:14,680
Speaker 1: it's good, you know, I mean the songs that you

1814
01:50:14,760 --> 01:50:20,479
Speaker 1: can really I know, it's not even singing. You sort

1815
01:50:20,520 --> 01:50:24,240
Speaker 1: of like sharing a story and people are like, you know,

1816
01:50:24,800 --> 01:50:27,760
Speaker 1: looking at you. Let they're listening to a story. And

1817
01:50:27,840 --> 01:50:29,760
Speaker 1: then the other version of the band, this would come

1818
01:50:29,800 --> 01:50:33,759
Speaker 1: out two fisted, all electric, and it's it's an entirely

1819
01:50:33,840 --> 01:50:36,880
Speaker 1: different anymore. But we do stop in the middle and

1820
01:50:36,920 --> 01:50:42,360
Speaker 1: do Bluebird Cafe Acoustic no matter where we are. If

1821
01:50:42,600 --> 01:50:44,479
Speaker 1: they're gonna throw a ship, they can throw it. But

1822
01:50:45,280 --> 01:50:49,920
Speaker 1: we've tried that this year on to about seven thousand

1823
01:50:50,040 --> 01:50:53,760
Speaker 1: people at night and you could hear a pin drop,

1824
01:50:55,560 --> 01:51:00,840
Speaker 1: you know. That's that's why how I get out of bed.

1825
01:51:01,000 --> 01:51:04,840
Speaker 1: That's because that isn't synthesizers and bullshit and big drums

1826
01:51:04,880 --> 01:51:08,559
Speaker 1: and it's like it's a it's a simple acoustic guitar

1827
01:51:08,560 --> 01:51:11,639
Speaker 1: and vocal. And if you can get seven eight thousand

1828
01:51:11,680 --> 01:51:14,880
Speaker 1: people to go completely quiet and listen to that, then

1829
01:51:14,960 --> 01:51:17,280
Speaker 1: you're in the right place at the right time, you know.

1830
01:51:18,400 --> 01:51:20,880
Speaker 1: And do you have a manager? You do it all yourself. No,

1831
01:51:21,840 --> 01:51:26,800
Speaker 1: me and Tim we have if work comes to me,

1832
01:51:26,840 --> 01:51:30,880
Speaker 1: have an Asian and they ring up and sim says johnah,

1833
01:51:30,880 --> 01:51:32,880
Speaker 1: go and play this gig for this much. We can

1834
01:51:32,920 --> 01:51:34,599
Speaker 1: do that. We can do this gig the next time

1835
01:51:34,600 --> 01:51:37,240
Speaker 1: and say yeah, oh no, can we go and do it?

1836
01:51:38,040 --> 01:51:43,600
Speaker 1: Who's the agent um Blue Raven? With Blue Raven at

1837
01:51:43,600 --> 01:51:45,160
Speaker 1: the moment? So do you ever go to do you

1838
01:51:45,200 --> 01:51:47,040
Speaker 1: ever go to them and say, well, you know, I

1839
01:51:47,160 --> 01:51:50,439
Speaker 1: want to work from April through June, just book something now,

1840
01:51:51,560 --> 01:51:54,200
Speaker 1: it's not like that, you know, you you you can

1841
01:51:54,280 --> 01:51:57,960
Speaker 1: get to the point where you're just playing ridiculous places.

1842
01:51:58,080 --> 01:51:59,719
Speaker 1: You know, we want to keep it sort of classy.

1843
01:52:00,000 --> 01:52:06,839
Speaker 1: Want to play thesis and interesting listening rooms and sheds.

1844
01:52:07,000 --> 01:52:11,280
Speaker 1: You know, spent enough time playing out the way places.

1845
01:52:11,360 --> 01:52:13,559
Speaker 1: I mean, I want to play like the City Winery

1846
01:52:13,640 --> 01:52:16,280
Speaker 1: kind of thing that those kind of gigs are great,

1847
01:52:17,400 --> 01:52:20,479
Speaker 1: But they know they can't just go out there and say, okay,

1848
01:52:20,520 --> 01:52:22,200
Speaker 1: we've got to book it right through tune in July

1849
01:52:22,280 --> 01:52:26,280
Speaker 1: and August. You know, it doesn't work like that. And

1850
01:52:26,400 --> 01:52:30,720
Speaker 1: you talked about playing the seven thousand people. How many

1851
01:52:30,880 --> 01:52:33,400
Speaker 1: to the time do you go out alone? Where do

1852
01:52:33,439 --> 01:52:36,360
Speaker 1: you go out in the package? Um, well that was

1853
01:52:36,400 --> 01:52:39,160
Speaker 1: the package. That's Vix Strength fielding men at work. But

1854
01:52:39,280 --> 01:52:41,360
Speaker 1: we do a lot of gigs with Neil Gerraldo on

1855
01:52:41,400 --> 01:52:46,960
Speaker 1: pap bennettson UM and then we play like thousands seat

1856
01:52:47,120 --> 01:52:52,439
Speaker 1: headline maybe more. Uh, you know, it's it's not one

1857
01:52:52,560 --> 01:52:55,599
Speaker 1: thing all the time. You can maybe do four gigs

1858
01:52:56,280 --> 01:52:59,000
Speaker 1: being the opening act for a band that's really establishing

1859
01:52:59,000 --> 01:53:01,640
Speaker 1: your plans to Seventh Town some people, and then you

1860
01:53:01,680 --> 01:53:05,400
Speaker 1: can go on the next night and play a headliner. Uh,

1861
01:53:05,680 --> 01:53:08,640
Speaker 1: and your pens a fift hundred people and maybe on

1862
01:53:08,720 --> 01:53:13,240
Speaker 1: the third night there's a six hundred listening room. It's

1863
01:53:13,280 --> 01:53:15,360
Speaker 1: like an art sense. So we can do the unflipped

1864
01:53:15,400 --> 01:53:17,880
Speaker 1: thing and you love all that and then you go

1865
01:53:18,000 --> 01:53:20,599
Speaker 1: back to the opening for somebody or whatever. You put

1866
01:53:20,640 --> 01:53:23,880
Speaker 1: it together. But the idea is to play the best

1867
01:53:23,920 --> 01:53:28,599
Speaker 1: places possible and bring it. You know, if you're playing

1868
01:53:29,320 --> 01:53:31,680
Speaker 1: so out the word places of God for a bit

1869
01:53:31,720 --> 01:53:33,760
Speaker 1: of club, a low club, you know, it's like, man,

1870
01:53:34,479 --> 01:53:36,800
Speaker 1: you're supposed to bring it, and you know those kind

1871
01:53:36,840 --> 01:53:42,920
Speaker 1: of places you don't want to go there. So do

1872
01:53:43,080 --> 01:53:46,800
Speaker 1: you have enough money saved and income that theoretically you

1873
01:53:46,840 --> 01:53:50,000
Speaker 1: can stop working or you're working to live? Oh? No,

1874
01:53:50,360 --> 01:53:52,800
Speaker 1: I've got money in the bank. And like I said,

1875
01:53:52,840 --> 01:53:57,080
Speaker 1: I own my own place at publishing and we're working,

1876
01:53:57,200 --> 01:54:02,680
Speaker 1: and I own most of cattle. Like you know, it

1877
01:54:02,840 --> 01:54:07,439
Speaker 1: wasn't almost like that. I came back up from really

1878
01:54:07,520 --> 01:54:11,360
Speaker 1: being kicked out of the music business. I was. I

1879
01:54:11,479 --> 01:54:15,080
Speaker 1: was just stubborn. I wasn't going to go down and

1880
01:54:15,160 --> 01:54:18,080
Speaker 1: stay down, my dad. I'm always to write songs to

1881
01:54:18,200 --> 01:54:21,960
Speaker 1: sing and here I am. Are you gonna die on

1882
01:54:22,240 --> 01:54:25,640
Speaker 1: stage or at some point, I hope no. People keep

1883
01:54:25,720 --> 01:54:29,040
Speaker 1: saying there's a great line in Steve Elle's song um

1884
01:54:29,479 --> 01:54:32,400
Speaker 1: fort Worth Blues, and he says, you always said the

1885
01:54:32,480 --> 01:54:36,160
Speaker 1: highway was your home, but we both know that that

1886
01:54:36,280 --> 01:54:41,200
Speaker 1: ain't true. That's a wonderful couple of you know, it's

1887
01:54:41,280 --> 01:54:45,600
Speaker 1: just really there are romance of going kicking the bucket

1888
01:54:45,680 --> 01:54:47,720
Speaker 1: on the road to me is bullshit. You know, you

1889
01:54:47,760 --> 01:54:50,920
Speaker 1: want to be somewhere where you're really happy and look

1890
01:54:51,000 --> 01:54:55,600
Speaker 1: back at your life and said, okay, so what would

1891
01:54:55,640 --> 01:54:59,680
Speaker 1: it take for you to stop? I'll let you know.

1892
01:55:00,440 --> 01:55:03,720
Speaker 1: I think there's a moment, honestly where you put your

1893
01:55:03,760 --> 01:55:05,840
Speaker 1: hand up and said, thank you, it's been great tonight,

1894
01:55:06,480 --> 01:55:09,800
Speaker 1: and you walk off and yes you might change your clothes.

1895
01:55:10,440 --> 01:55:12,480
Speaker 1: You walk out, it's the parking lot, get in the van,

1896
01:55:12,960 --> 01:55:15,600
Speaker 1: and in your heart you know that's your last show,

1897
01:55:17,400 --> 01:55:22,160
Speaker 1: and I don't want to be around you know. I mean,

1898
01:55:22,200 --> 01:55:26,880
Speaker 1: you see some of these pants. You know there's a

1899
01:55:26,920 --> 01:55:29,040
Speaker 1: same amount of sex in votes in rock and roll,

1900
01:55:29,600 --> 01:55:31,920
Speaker 1: and the only you get. I mean, it's nice, you know,

1901
01:55:32,040 --> 01:55:33,760
Speaker 1: to see all the people play, But I think that's

1902
01:55:33,800 --> 01:55:39,360
Speaker 1: the point where you know you just should make yourself scarce.

1903
01:55:39,800 --> 01:55:41,680
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people went to get on stage.

1904
01:55:42,960 --> 01:55:45,960
Speaker 1: So the movie opens on December six. Where can people

1905
01:55:46,080 --> 01:55:49,960
Speaker 1: see it? I don't know. Like I said before, I

1906
01:55:50,080 --> 01:55:52,520
Speaker 1: had absolutely nothing to do with it. I did the interviews,

1907
01:55:52,920 --> 01:55:55,040
Speaker 1: I knew the guy that brew all together, but I

1908
01:55:55,760 --> 01:55:58,680
Speaker 1: I've had no input. Somebody told me that the different

1909
01:55:59,520 --> 01:56:03,120
Speaker 1: cable's stations it's gonna be on, but I didn't make

1910
01:56:03,160 --> 01:56:07,720
Speaker 1: a note of it. Okay, And uh, there's certainly a

1911
01:56:07,800 --> 01:56:12,000
Speaker 1: website the hard Way the movie something very similar to that.

1912
01:56:12,080 --> 01:56:14,120
Speaker 1: If you google John Waite in the hard Way, you'll

1913
01:56:14,360 --> 01:56:16,200
Speaker 1: certainly come right up. And I think it's gonna be

1914
01:56:16,800 --> 01:56:21,880
Speaker 1: on demand on multiple platforms. And as I say, the

1915
01:56:21,920 --> 01:56:24,960
Speaker 1: movie is excellent, not because I'm blowing smoke, but otherwise

1916
01:56:24,960 --> 01:56:28,160
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be talking to you. And it's intriguing. One

1917
01:56:28,280 --> 01:56:31,760
Speaker 1: is with whether one is a fan or not. But

1918
01:56:32,760 --> 01:56:34,760
Speaker 1: in the back of your mind, do you think that

1919
01:56:34,960 --> 01:56:39,600
Speaker 1: this will be a boost for your career? Yeah? I

1920
01:56:39,720 --> 01:56:42,400
Speaker 1: think Like I said before, and you called it, how

1921
01:56:42,440 --> 01:56:45,640
Speaker 1: do you over think was it? How do you say? Uh,

1922
01:56:47,400 --> 01:56:50,400
Speaker 1: what you wrote about it and what you wrote about

1923
01:56:50,560 --> 01:56:55,520
Speaker 1: constant so mar of the entertainment business and people getting

1924
01:56:55,520 --> 01:56:59,520
Speaker 1: ahead and the ephemeral thing that comes. You know, I

1925
01:56:59,560 --> 01:57:01,680
Speaker 1: couldn't have agreed with you more. If I was better

1926
01:57:01,760 --> 01:57:03,920
Speaker 1: with words, I would write all that down aside roads,

1927
01:57:04,560 --> 01:57:06,800
Speaker 1: I thought it was quite brilliant. And I'm not blowing

1928
01:57:06,840 --> 01:57:09,200
Speaker 1: smoky but but I thought, honestly, that's how I see it.

1929
01:57:10,120 --> 01:57:15,360
Speaker 1: And I've always had a pretty good fan base. I've

1930
01:57:15,400 --> 01:57:17,880
Speaker 1: just been through I mean the shadows, you know. But

1931
01:57:17,960 --> 01:57:20,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm working a lot, and every time we

1932
01:57:20,200 --> 01:57:23,400
Speaker 1: show up, it's like, you know, it's great, but I

1933
01:57:23,440 --> 01:57:30,600
Speaker 1: suppose it will um, I don't know, you know, I

1934
01:57:30,960 --> 01:57:33,320
Speaker 1: don't worry about anything like that, Bob, I really don't.

1935
01:57:33,360 --> 01:57:35,800
Speaker 1: I just sort of like get up, have a goot

1936
01:57:35,840 --> 01:57:38,360
Speaker 1: of coffee and start the day. I don't plan ahead,

1937
01:57:38,360 --> 01:57:40,520
Speaker 1: and I saraily don't plan ahead moored than six months.

1938
01:57:40,520 --> 01:57:44,800
Speaker 1: I have to a big point at the beginning of

1939
01:57:44,880 --> 01:57:49,360
Speaker 1: the movie is how difficult you are and it has

1940
01:57:49,440 --> 01:57:54,920
Speaker 1: to be your way and it doesn't uh bode well

1941
01:57:55,080 --> 01:58:00,120
Speaker 1: for relationships with our business relationships. I'm talking to you now. Oh,

1942
01:58:00,160 --> 01:58:03,360
Speaker 1: I don't hear any of that. So he said, we're

1943
01:58:03,400 --> 01:58:08,840
Speaker 1: not making We're not making art, you know. I mean,

1944
01:58:08,920 --> 01:58:10,920
Speaker 1: if if you were producing me and I had this

1945
01:58:11,080 --> 01:58:13,960
Speaker 1: song and I had this music in my head and

1946
01:58:14,080 --> 01:58:16,600
Speaker 1: I could hear this sound that I wanted, and I

1947
01:58:16,720 --> 01:58:20,360
Speaker 1: knew where the lyrics should go. And you're saying a hi, John,

1948
01:58:20,440 --> 01:58:23,040
Speaker 1: nobody uses that word. Use something else. They go like, no,

1949
01:58:23,160 --> 01:58:25,840
Speaker 1: it's a beautiful work. You got, like, oh, come on, now,

1950
01:58:26,280 --> 01:58:29,480
Speaker 1: you know I go no, and then you know things

1951
01:58:29,560 --> 01:58:31,880
Speaker 1: go to the next level. But but that's you know,

1952
01:58:32,720 --> 01:58:34,440
Speaker 1: I don't believe in any of that. I think, you know,

1953
01:58:34,480 --> 01:58:37,680
Speaker 1: when you produce a record, everything live and let the

1954
01:58:37,800 --> 01:58:41,240
Speaker 1: artist have his head. If he's worth going in the studio,

1955
01:58:41,320 --> 01:58:42,920
Speaker 1: he's going to deliver the goods. But I don't want

1956
01:58:42,920 --> 01:58:45,960
Speaker 1: to be the flavor of the week or or like

1957
01:58:46,080 --> 01:58:48,680
Speaker 1: somebody suggests I do a certain kind of song because

1958
01:58:48,760 --> 01:58:51,680
Speaker 1: it's like happening now and the kids dig it. I mean,

1959
01:58:52,040 --> 01:58:55,680
Speaker 1: I'm not interested. I'm just not And yeah, if that

1960
01:58:55,760 --> 01:58:59,160
Speaker 1: makes me difficult, and that's what I am, Well, you're

1961
01:58:59,200 --> 01:59:03,920
Speaker 1: having how thin. Seeing the movie, it sounded also the

1962
01:59:04,000 --> 01:59:06,840
Speaker 1: way it was portrayed that part of your personality makes

1963
01:59:07,560 --> 01:59:10,800
Speaker 1: just everyday relationships difficult. I mean, are you the type

1964
01:59:10,840 --> 01:59:13,640
Speaker 1: of person who goes and calls friends, hangs with friends,

1965
01:59:14,080 --> 01:59:16,360
Speaker 1: or you're basically in your own head until you go

1966
01:59:16,440 --> 01:59:20,920
Speaker 1: out to work. Yeah, um, I think I'm pretty hot. Surrage.

1967
01:59:21,080 --> 01:59:25,480
Speaker 1: Sometimes there's a lot going on. I wish there wasn't,

1968
01:59:25,520 --> 01:59:29,960
Speaker 1: but I tend to be You know, half of my

1969
01:59:30,120 --> 01:59:33,920
Speaker 1: mind is writing a song all the time, always thinking

1970
01:59:33,920 --> 01:59:40,440
Speaker 1: about a line from a book, Oh, cowboy music, you know,

1971
01:59:40,760 --> 01:59:43,480
Speaker 1: and whatever it is. But half of me is always

1972
01:59:43,520 --> 01:59:48,840
Speaker 1: away elsewhere. You know you're happy? Are you happy the

1973
01:59:48,960 --> 01:59:51,920
Speaker 1: way that things are? And you'll continue to do your

1974
01:59:52,000 --> 01:59:55,160
Speaker 1: gig until you have that moment referenced earlier or in

1975
01:59:55,240 --> 01:59:58,680
Speaker 1: the back of your mind. Is there one big goal

1976
01:59:59,000 --> 02:00:01,400
Speaker 1: or achievement that you still or a bar that you

1977
02:00:01,480 --> 02:00:06,000
Speaker 1: want to reach. I've been doing it all my life.

1978
02:00:06,240 --> 02:00:08,400
Speaker 1: I honestly feel like I've been a success at every

1979
02:00:08,480 --> 02:00:10,560
Speaker 1: step in my life, even if people were not there

1980
02:00:10,600 --> 02:00:13,320
Speaker 1: to witness it. Oh, he didn't sell a million records,

1981
02:00:13,840 --> 02:00:16,840
Speaker 1: bout ten thousand records. I've always done what I wanted.

1982
02:00:17,840 --> 02:00:20,520
Speaker 1: That's been a success. It really is. I know it

1983
02:00:20,600 --> 02:00:24,360
Speaker 1: sounds like a speech, but I've been about the great

1984
02:00:24,480 --> 02:00:29,920
Speaker 1: luxury of loving what I do. Oh my life, and

1985
02:00:30,080 --> 02:00:33,040
Speaker 1: you can't buy that. And I've had a wonderful life.

1986
02:00:34,000 --> 02:00:37,720
Speaker 1: I haven't missed the bills I once, so I believe

1987
02:00:37,760 --> 02:00:42,720
Speaker 1: in what I've done all my life. I'm very, very lucky. Well,

1988
02:00:42,760 --> 02:00:45,280
Speaker 1: it's been wonderful talking to you. It's you know, you're

1989
02:00:45,400 --> 02:00:48,400
Speaker 1: very forthcoming and honest. You don't hold back. You can

1990
02:00:48,480 --> 02:00:51,960
Speaker 1: feel the integrity and the motion coming through. So John,

1991
02:00:52,240 --> 02:00:54,000
Speaker 1: I want to thank you so much for taking the time.

1992
02:00:54,080 --> 02:00:57,840
Speaker 1: Thank you, Bob. It's um, it's it's um. Since you

1993
02:00:57,960 --> 02:01:03,879
Speaker 1: reviewed the documentary, UM, we've had like suonomi of interest

1994
02:01:04,320 --> 02:01:08,560
Speaker 1: because you have such credibility. But uh, doing the interview

1995
02:01:09,200 --> 02:01:13,280
Speaker 1: and reading your review, UM, I think we're pretty much

1996
02:01:13,360 --> 02:01:16,440
Speaker 1: alike mind and it's a pleasure for me to talk

1997
02:01:16,520 --> 02:01:20,480
Speaker 1: to you too. Well, I'm smiling and my shinees makes

1998
02:01:20,520 --> 02:01:24,600
Speaker 1: it hard to uh come back. But thank you so

1999
02:01:24,760 --> 02:01:30,080
Speaker 1: much for that. God bless you. Thanks for everyone. Until

2000
02:01:30,160 --> 02:01:32,360
Speaker 1: next time. This is Bob left Steps