Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. I'd like to welcome
Speaker 1: our global Bloomberg television and radio audiences. I'm joined in
Speaker 1: conversation by Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, live from
Speaker 1: Capitol Hill. Senator, thank you very much for being here.
Speaker 1: You are leading a subcommittee hearing today titled Continuing a
Speaker 1: Bipartisan Path Forward for Antitrust Enforcement and Reform. And I
Speaker 1: do wonder, in what will become January, a Republican control
Speaker 1: of Congress and Billa versus and White House, what that
Speaker 1: bipartisan path actually looks like.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, first of all, thanks for having me on, Kayley.
Speaker 2: It's great to be on. And I think what you've
Speaker 2: seen in this area of antitrust, you've seen some broad
Speaker 2: bipartisan agreement on a number of these cases. Right. For instance,
Speaker 2: the Google case started under the Trump administration, the first
Speaker 2: Trump administration, as did the Facebook case that was at
Speaker 2: the FTC. Google was at the Justice Department. Then it
Speaker 2: proceeded through the Biden administration. Biden administration also brought some
Speaker 2: major cases, for instance against Ticketmaster and other companies, and
Speaker 2: so you've seen a more aggressive anti trust enforcement over
Speaker 2: the last few years now, you have a new appointees
Speaker 2: going in place, and at least one of them I
Speaker 2: have heard the belief is over at the Justice Department
Speaker 2: with some former Democratic anti trust enforcers that she knows
Speaker 2: what she's doing. I'm looking forward to meeting with her,
Speaker 2: Gail Slater, and I'm hoping that we will continue those cases.
Speaker 2: I love competition, Okay, I like capitalism. That's why I'm
Speaker 2: for anti trust enforcement.
Speaker 1: Well, you've mentioned Gail Slater. What about Andrew Ferguson. Do
Speaker 1: you think he loves the issue of competition in the
Speaker 1: same way that you do. Do you trust that the
Speaker 1: FTC will be in good hands under his leadership?
Speaker 2: You know, I am looking forward to meeting with him.
Speaker 2: Interestingly enough, we do not confirm that position because he
Speaker 2: was already on the commission. There is a new member
Speaker 2: that is being appointed on the Republican side. I'll note
Speaker 2: that he also he wrote a piece on the breakup
Speaker 2: of Ticketmaster in which he favored that. So I just
Speaker 2: think with anti trust because at its core, it is
Speaker 2: about competition, and it's been laggered for many decades, and
Speaker 2: as a result, we're seeing more and more consolidation. It
Speaker 2: isn't that big companies are bad. It's that sometimes when
Speaker 2: you have no competition, then you start getting less innovation,
Speaker 2: more high prices, et cetera, et cetera. So I'm actually
Speaker 2: really excited about this. Center Lee and I are doing
Speaker 2: this together. This hearing. Sena Grassley and I have passed
Speaker 2: our bill together, and I think you're going to continue
Speaker 2: to see interest in tech. Fact, Center Cruise and I
Speaker 2: did a joint interview this morning and a bill that
Speaker 2: we have gotten through the Senate on taking online porn
Speaker 2: off the Internet. Different than anti trust, However, you're just
Speaker 2: going to continue to see bipartisan and work on tech.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad that you have brought up the Take
Speaker 1: It Down Act, which you co sponsored with Senator Cruz.
Speaker 1: Is that trying to tackle symptoms of an underlying disease
Speaker 1: rather than the disease itself. And the disease I'm referring
Speaker 1: to here is unregulated artificial intelligence.
Speaker 2: Thanks, I really would like to put in some rules
Speaker 2: of the road on AI. And this bill is actually
Speaker 2: broader than just AI pornographic issue pictures. It's actually also
Speaker 2: real pictures as well as AI created ones. We're now
Speaker 2: seeing one in twelve Americans saying that they have been
Speaker 2: a victim or no, someone that's a victim of this.
Speaker 2: We've had twenty suicides in one year of young kids.
Speaker 2: Twenty suicides because someone a girlfriend, boyfriend, someone they knew
Speaker 2: put up their photo. They were embarrassed that their friends
Speaker 2: and their family would know, and they killed themselves. These
Speaker 2: are FBI statistics. So Senator Cruse and I came together
Speaker 2: to build us two things. One make it clearly a
Speaker 2: crime to use pornographic imagery of someone else, whether it's
Speaker 2: AI created or real. And then number two, that the
Speaker 2: platforms have to take it down. That's why it's called
Speaker 2: the Take It Down Act. They take down other violations
Speaker 2: of intellectual property and the fact that people can be
Speaker 2: abused in this way to the point of committing suicide.
Speaker 2: And in one case that I know of, Senator Cruz's case,
Speaker 2: he actually had a call Snapchat to get the image
Speaker 2: down after months of this victim from his state dealing
Speaker 2: with it. That's just wrong.
Speaker 1: Senator, I'd like to ask you about another one of
Speaker 1: your colleagues, your fellow Democrats, Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts,
Speaker 1: wrote a letter we understand, to President elect Donald Trump
Speaker 1: asking for firm conflict of interest rules to be put
Speaker 1: into place. Related to Elon Musk, who, of course has
Speaker 1: been tapped to co lead this new Department of Government Efficiency,
Speaker 1: have you had any conversations with Senator Warren about that,
Speaker 1: or at the very least you share in that sentiment.
Speaker 2: Now, I haven't seen this letter, but I will say
Speaker 2: that I believe that we need con inflictive interest rules
Speaker 2: in place for people who are making major decisions in
Speaker 2: the government. That is what our people have done voluntarily
Speaker 2: for years now. And you have a number of very
Speaker 2: wealthy people going into the Trump administration. There's been wealthy
Speaker 2: people as well under democratic administration, but you have a
Speaker 2: number of them coming in and we need the conflict
Speaker 2: rules in force, and we need to know that the
Speaker 2: decisions they are making are not for their own interest
Speaker 2: but for the interests of the American people. And I
Speaker 2: would hope that President elect Trump agrees.
Speaker 1: Finally, President Elect Trump yesterday met with the CEO of TikTok,
Speaker 1: Show Chew at mar A Lago, after saying in a
Speaker 1: news conference Senator that he is a warm spot in
Speaker 1: his heart for TikTok. When asked if you would like
Speaker 1: to see the ban go through or will try to
Speaker 1: stop it. Given some of the issues we have already
Speaker 1: discussed around technology in particular and what is propagated on
Speaker 1: these platforms, what is your view about whether that band
Speaker 1: should be enforced come January.
Speaker 2: Of course, out of Congress with strong bipartisan support. And
Speaker 2: there are two avenues here. One is that they can
Speaker 2: follow the law and divest and find a buyer for
Speaker 2: the company, and the second is that they still are
Speaker 2: appealing to the Supreme Court. So my view has been
Speaker 2: that we should have rules of the road in place,
Speaker 2: by the way, for all platforms. I have been way
Speaker 2: out there, as I think you know, in terms of
Speaker 2: getting not just pornography off the Internet, but other very
Speaker 2: very difficult things that are on there right now, and
Speaker 2: that we should have a better policing of that, and
Speaker 2: people should have the right to protect their own intellectual properties,
Speaker 2: and also that we should have antitrust enforcement. You just
Speaker 2: can't have, say Google, with a ninety percent market share
Speaker 2: on the search engine and not have any competition and
Speaker 2: then allow them to self preference, as we see with
Speaker 2: Amazon and other companies their own products at the top.
Speaker 2: That's why the NFIB, which is not a liberal organization,
Speaker 2: the National Federation of Independent Businesses, is strongly supporting the
Speaker 2: bill that I have with Senator Grassley, which simply put
Speaker 2: some rules in the road in place for competition on
Speaker 2: the Internet. All right.
Speaker 1: Democratic Senator Amy Clobaschar of Minnesota joining us live from
Speaker 1: Capitol Hill on Bloomberg Television and Radio. Thank you so much.