WEBVTT - Buy Nothing to Gain Everything w/ Liz Chai #770 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.480 Welcome to Out of Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt, 0:00:03.560 --> 0:00:06.680 and today we're talking buying nothing to gain everything with 0:00:06.800 --> 0:00:07.320 Liz Chai. 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:28.440 Yeah, so, I don't care how much money you. 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:30.840 Make, right it is still possible. 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:33.320 To completely spend it all to find yourself at the 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:35.040 end of the month with no money in the bank. 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:38.200 Studies show that even forty five percent of folks who 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:41.040 are high wage earners like so, these are folks who 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:43.599 are making more than one hundred thousand dollars that they 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:47.199 are living paycheck to paycheck as well. And obviously there 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:50.080 are some financial situations that could be resolved with a 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:53.559 slightly higher income, but more often than not, we are 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:56.120 the problem. We are our own worst enemies because of 0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:57.680 the ridiculous amounts of stuff. 0:00:57.400 --> 0:00:58.400 That we buy. 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:00.640 And that is why we're excited to be speaking with 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:04.039 Liz Chai. Liz is the author of How to Buy 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:08.240 Essentially Nothing for a Year, and actually she wrote and 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:11.520 illustrated the book. As Liz is a graphic designer, it's 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:14.320 a joy to read through. It's beautiful, and she's actually 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:16.840 an old friend, which I'm sure we'll touch on a 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:19.080 little bit later as well. But when we heard that 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:21.720 she was writing a book about her personal journey with consumption, 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:23.720 we knew that we had to have her on. Hopefully 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:25.720 a lot of folks will be able to be inspired 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:29.440 by her journey as well as to leave this episode 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:31.560 with some practical tips on how it is that they 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:34.640 can buy fewer things. Liz, thank you so much for 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:36.440 joining us today on the podcast. 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:38.880 Hey guys, glad to have you Liz. This is going 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:41.759 to be fun and so much to this. I think 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:46.080 I'm just kind of curious from a voyeuristic standpoint too, 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:48.040 to know exactly what it's like to go through a 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:49.640 whole year with buying nothing. So we'll get into some 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:52.440 of those questions to satisfy my curiosity. But our first 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:55.360 question for everyone who comes on the show is what 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:58.280 do they like to splur John, and I'm particularly interested 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:00.960 in what your answer is to this. Ours is craft beer, 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:03.920 because but we're still prioritizing save being investing for the future, 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:06.400 even while we spend potentially more than we showed on 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:07.800 craft beer. What's that for you? 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:11.560 Well, since I don't allow myself to buy material things, 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:14.720 I usually if I'm going to splurge, it's going to 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:18.360 be on an experience, So at the very top of 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:21.760 my list is traveling to Copenhagen. I will buy a 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:25.640 ticket to Copenhagen. That's my splurge. And fine dining is 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:27.120 another thing I will. 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:28.920 I love so min Copenhagen. 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:32.080 Specifically, you've combined the two because you mentioned that in 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:35.320 your book, right, So the ability to not necessarily think 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:39.920 twice about taking that trip as well as making that reservation. Yeah, nice, nice, Okay. 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:43.200 What is it that made you want to go down 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:47.240 this radical path, because at least here in modern America, 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:50.000 it's it's a radical path to take where you're attempting 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:52.600 to consume almost nothing. Did you come across a book, 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:55.720 did you have an intense conversation with a friend? What 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:58.200 was it that set you down this path? 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:01.120 Gosh, there were so many different actors that led to 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:04.520 the decision. When I'm I decided to not buy anything 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:06.679 for a year, and that was a New Year's resolution. 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:10.320 And usually at the end of every year, I sit 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:12.880 down and I make my lists of things that I'm 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:16.079 gonna do in the coming year and my goals and 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:18.880 all this stuff. You know, it's like a I call 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:22.320 it the dreamatorium, where I sit down and just daydream. 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:27.920 But this particular year I was living in and a 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:32.120 moment of over abundance, it just felt like I had 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:35.160 too much, Like I had everything I needed, and I 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:38.560 started almost feeling guilty because I was just like, I 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:41.560 have everything I need, Why do I keep buying stuff? 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:46.800 And I had learned about minimalism, and I had, you know, 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:50.000 I'd read Murray Condo's book, and I had followed the 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:54.080 minimalists for a while, and I've had always done a 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:56.840 very good job of only thrifting things or you know, 0:03:57.200 --> 0:04:00.800 not spending too much money necessarily, but I still had 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:03.800 so many material things. I had so much stuff. And 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:07.240 so originally, when I decided to stop buying things for 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:12.200 a year, it was because I wanted to experience what 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:16.480 it was like to be satisfied with what I already had, 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:20.119 and I wanted to be able to like live with less. 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:23.279 I didn't want to just continue like gaining more and 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:27.560 more and more. So that's that's originally what inspired the 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:28.640 New Year's resolution. 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:32.240 Okay, so why you're going to thinking through these things? 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:35.520 What makes you go down the hardcore route as opposed 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:36.919 to making subtle changes. 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:38.120 Like why like a normal person? 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:42.200 Yeah, right, exactly, Liz, Why are you so not normal. 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:46.719 Well, I will say part of my personality is just 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:50.320 that I love rules and structure, So that's you know 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:52.240 why I sit down and make my lists of stuff. 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:55.039 Here's what you're not allowed to do. So part of 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:58.880 it is that, and that's sort of just the way 0:04:58.920 --> 0:04:59.560 my brain works. 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:00.200 But also so. 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:04.920 I've noticed over the years, and I've been around even 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:10.440 I've experienced life with an addict and have seen how 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:14.120 difficult it is for someone to make a huge change 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:16.800 in their life if they don't make a huge change 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:20.839 in their life. So just drop by drop, it's not 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:24.360 going to make an impact necessarily on your heart. So 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:27.719 that's why I decided to sort of go all in. 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:30.200 And I talk about this a little bit in the book. 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:32.680 But if you've ever like gone to work out, I 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:33.840 do weight training. 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:35.320 I try to abort it personally. 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:39.000 So if you've ever like gone to the gym and 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:41.000 like you select your weight and you start working out 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:44.280 and realize it's too it's too light, it makes sense 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:47.480 to stop and increase your weight because like, what would 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:49.560 even be the point of going to the gym if 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:51.680 you're not actually gonna break a sweat while you're there. 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:54.479 It's like a waste of your time. So sort of 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:57.480 have that same mentality where it's like, if I'm if 0:05:57.480 --> 0:05:59.320 I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna go all out, I'm 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:00.320 gonna challenge myself. 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:01.120 Let's do it right. 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:04.200 Yeah, So it makes it and it really created this 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:08.720 paradigm shift where I completely have a different view of 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:11.119 material possessions now. 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:14.640 So like subtle rudder shifts, like a one percent change 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:16.920 gradually over time, does take us in a different direction. 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:19.280 You're saying, you kind of said it takes a major 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:23.240 change to make a major change like that. Explain that 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:25.599 to me, and how do you actually do that? Cause 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:27.920 it sounds nice to make a radical change, and where 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:30.159 at the beginning of a new year here where people 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:33.040 are like, hey, radical change sounds kind of awesome, But 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:35.400 those radical changes can be more difficult to stick with. Two. 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:40.239 Yeah, absolutely so a while ago, and this was back 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:42.359 so I lived in Atlanta and that's how I know 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:45.560 the both of you. Yeah, and before I moved out 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:47.919 to where I live now is Portland. A friend of 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:51.080 mine challenged me to the minimalists do a game where 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:53.480 you get rid of something every day. On day one, 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:54.880 you get rid of one thing on day two, you 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:56.240 get rid of two things, and you do this for 0:06:56.279 --> 0:07:00.640 a month. And so that was my introduction to the game, 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:03.440 and I actually still continue to play this game almost 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:06.800 every day. I have a spreadsheet with a macro and 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:09.600 it tallies all the things I've gotten rid of and 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:11.600 just another super nerdy thing. 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:14.040 That I Yeah, you might need to share with me 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:18.360 because I might want to jump on that. Okay, So 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:21.160 do you also put an estimated Sorry, you're giving a 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:23.280 nice reply here, and I totally am jumping in, but 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:26.239 does your mac Does it also include a total value 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:28.360 as well? Like, do you even if you give it away? 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:30.360 Do you put an estimated dollar amount on there? Or 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:32.080 do you only do that for items that you sell? 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:34.920 It has a few It's changed over the years, but 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:39.960 every year it tallies the quantity of items I've gotten 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:43.080 rid of. And that's you know, whether I sell something 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:45.360 or give it away, or to recycle it or throw 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:47.960 it away or donate it all of all of the options. 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:51.800 And now it also includes a tally for the amount 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:54.640 of money I earned if I sold something, yeah, or 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:58.160 the amount of store credit that I got I exchanged it. 0:07:58.360 --> 0:07:59.000 Yeah, you got to. 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:01.680 Track the donation for tax purposes. Too, right. I also 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:02.040 about that. 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:03.760 But I love the fact that this is something you're 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:05.520 keeping up with over a long period of time, because 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:07.560 we talked about this a few weeks ago. But there 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:09.480 are a few things that we look at over the 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:12.840 scope of not only multiple years, but even multiple decades 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:16.240 or god forbid it like a lifetime, and certain expenses 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:18.600 we think, oh gosh, it takes how much money to 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:21.520 actually live, But we don't normally look at things that 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:24.240 far zoomed out. But I think by doing that that 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:28.000 could be incredibly encouraging when it comes to thinking about 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:29.920 the stuff we own, trying to find ways to cut 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:31.800 back on that. But yeah, sorry to interrupt it. It sounds 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:34.720 like this is something you revisit every year where you're 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:37.040 looking to continue to unload goods. 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:40.040 Every year. I aim to get rid of as many 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:43.040 things as it is the year, so twenty twenty four 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:45.240 I will try to get rid of twenty twenty four 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:49.760 things at least. And that's been easy, honestly, if I'm 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:52.920 keeping track. Some of it is small things and some 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:54.480 of it is big things. And that kind of goes 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:56.480 back to what you were asking about the slow trickle. 0:08:56.880 --> 0:08:59.560 When I first started playing this, game. I was pretty 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:01.720 intimidate by, like how am I going to get rid 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:03.920 of four hundred things in a month, And my friend 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:06.400 just encouraged me to start small, so I, you know, 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:09.079 I'd get rid of Oh I've been hanging on to 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:11.400 this business card for a long time, or here's a 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:14.839 paper clip or a battery or something, and that's this 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:19.440 one small thing, and it helped me to start to 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:23.520 get used to playing this game, and it reduces the 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:27.320 value of material things in your in your mind. But 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:29.760 then I've been playing the game for a long time 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:32.360 and I would then, you know, this was back in 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:35.480 my buying years. I would go replenish that stuff. So 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:39.200 that's slow trickle. I was barely putting a dent in 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:43.840 like the amount of things that I that I owned 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:46.480 or possessed. So I might get rid of four hundred 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:47.880 things in a month, But then. 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:50.480 That was just the junk drawer, Yeah exactly. 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:53.560 It's most people have about that much stuff just like 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:55.280 laying around their house that they can get rid of 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:58.080 and they wouldn't even notice it. And I have had 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:00.440 multiple estate sales even where I get get rid of 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:05.080 things that I bought, and I don't remember what most 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:08.760 of those things are, which really says a lot about 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:11.960 how we value our stuff. If you were to have 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:14.760 a garage sale and get rid of a bunch of stuff, 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:17.359 you probably won't even remember what it is that you parted. 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:18.640 Ways with you that's true, It's right, Okay. 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:20.400 Well, one of the things you say in your book too, 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:24.160 is that the fact that you actually feel better when 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:27.120 you are not consuming more, when you're not buying anything, 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:31.360 so you actually began to view material possessions as burdensome, 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:33.040 like the way you write about it's almost like it 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:35.280 was taking up space in your mind. Can you kind 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:37.679 of explain the shift that took place when you went 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:40.360 from seeing it as something that maybe you used to 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:43.400 get an endorphin rush, but then it's like you saw 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:44.720 it through a different lens and all of a sudden 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:45.840 it became this weight. 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:46.240 Yeah. 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:50.720 I think a lot of people have a different relationship 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:54.040 with stuff than I do. But I think it's pretty 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:57.840 common for people to get that endorphin rush or they're 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:03.200 trying to feel like a void, and so they might 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:08.480 be purchasing purchasing stuff mindlessly so that they can feel 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:11.920 better for a moment, or to feel a sense of control, 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:15.559 like I know, I had a friend who would buy 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:21.199 every single issue in like a like a DVD collection 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:24.199 or like a book series, Like he had every single 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:27.240 one and even like the one with the gold foil 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:30.719 stamping that sort of thing. And you know, ultimately, and 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:33.480 he admitted this too, but it's just he was really 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:37.960 what he was buying was a sense of completeness in 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:41.040 being able to have all of those things in full 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:43.960 and like to have his shelves lined with like every 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:47.640 every possible issue, game or whatever it was. I think 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:51.320 he got all of those things. Honestly, we've all and 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:53.680 there's like no shame to it. Like I you know, 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:56.280 I've I've been a collector of stuff, you know, ever 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:57.040 since I was a kid. 0:11:57.080 --> 0:11:59.320 I worked out, we've all got our own things that 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:03.880 were more on to whether yeah it's trinkets or limited 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:04.960 release DVDs. 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:06.920 Or most people would be appalled if they knew that. 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:09.600 Over the course of my life, I've owned hundreds and 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:11.160 hundreds of vintage dresses. 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:14.920 So well, I want to ask you about that because 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:16.679 that feels different because so much of the time when 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:18.960 we're trying to curb consumption, what we're what we're looking 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:21.880 to do is like stop Amazon purchases or just the 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:25.120 knee jerk impulse spends because we're scrolling on social media 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:27.600 or something like that. And I think that is a 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:29.680 massive culprit for a lot of people today and just 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:31.240 and they're like, where did the money go? What is 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:33.160 actually in the package that showed up in my doorstep 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:35.760 a day or two later? The disconnect, I guess, But 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:38.960 you're like, it's it's not the same thing. It's not 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:42.439 like you're adding to a landfill when you're buying something 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:45.600 used like vintage shopping or thrifting. Does that feel different 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:47.760 to you? And was that harder to give up? Do 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:49.680 you do any of that these days? Because if there's 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:52.680 anybody I know who is more into like the vintage scene, 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:55.679 I couldn't name them. 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:58.560 Well, there's a couple of different things happening here. So 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:03.560 one of it. One of those things is I was 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:09.880 buying vintage dresses excessively, Like nobody needs hundreds of vintage dresses. 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:13.520 Nobody needs hundreds of dresses, you know, unless they, you know, 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:18.520 are a fashion blogger or something like that, if it's 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:21.520 relevant to what they do. But I could go a 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:25.280 year without repeating. And there was something about that that 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:28.880 does that does not feel good, even though I was 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:31.240 delighted in every single one of those dresses. You know, 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:33.679 eventually I have sold a lot of those. I don't 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:36.480 have that many dresses now. But I think one of 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:39.640 the ways I justified it was by saying, well, I'm 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:44.120 not contributing to fast fashion, I'm not adding to the landfill. 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:48.760 But then later I learned more about the purchases that 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:52.840 I was making. So you know, most sixties and seventies 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:58.240 dresses are made out of polyester, which is plastic. It's 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:01.960 like not good for the earth. That's not good for 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:07.280 you to even like wear on your body. And so 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:11.920 in a way, it's still it's still maybe not good 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:14.520 just because I wasn't, you know, buying all my clothes 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:18.560 from the outlem all or whatever. I was still living 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:22.440 in excess, and I was still not contributing in a 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:23.960 positive way to the planet. 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:25.200 Yeah. 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:28.280 Yeah, Well, we've got more to talk to with you, Liz, 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:30.000 and specifically we want to get into some of the 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:33.920 different benefits that you realized by spending less money by 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:37.320 buying fewer things. And we're going to talk how later 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:39.360 on too, just some practical takeaways and how it is 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:41.520 that folks can come up with a plan so that 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:42.600 they can buy fewer things. 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:52.560 We'll get to all of that right after this. All right, 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:55.440 we're back. We're still talking with Liz Chai about buying 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:59.400 nothing and kind of all the positive benefits that accrue 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:03.440 when you make a pretty radical life change. And Liz, 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:06.920 twenty twenty was the first buy nothing year that you experienced. 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:09.480 I'm curious, like, what sort of ripple effect has that 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:11.600 had in your life, and has it been Has it 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:14.240 resulted in more permanent and lasting changes maybe than you 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:17.760 first imagined? Was it? I guess you think of it 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:21.400 as maybe a way to save money or declutter, But 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:24.600 my guess is that that's not all. That's not the 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:25.560 only impact that I had. 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:28.360 Definitely, gosh, there were so many things that I had 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:33.240 no idea that were going to happen, all these unexpected benefits. 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:37.400 I'll say. So, you know, like I said, I did 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:39.640 this as a New Year's resolution. I did it for myself, 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:42.920 and it was just like a personal challenge. But by 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:45.400 the end of the year, you know, I had shared 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:47.600 what I was doing with a few people, and one 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:51.720 of my friends thought it was so interesting that he 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:55.200 wanted to record a video about it, so he filmed 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:57.640 me talking about my project. This was towards the beginning 0:15:57.640 --> 0:15:59.840 of the year, but we didn't publish the video and 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:05.040 till maybe October, and then it got a lot of 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:08.240 attention just on our social media channels, and that led 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:13.080 to The New York Times published an article about buying Nothing. 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:15.040 It was published on the last day of the year, 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:18.160 so I had it was day three sixty five of 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:22.880 my project. And because of that, a lot of people 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:26.800 who read that article came to me asking, well, how 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:29.840 can I how can I do what you're doing. So 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:33.040 I would never have thought to write a book or 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:36.600 you know, even be talking about this with anyone if 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:42.120 if I hadn't encountered other people just telling me that 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:44.320 they were inspired by the project and that they wanted 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:46.720 to do their own year of buying nothing. So that's 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:49.560 one of the one of the benefits was it started 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:53.640 this almost like a like a little mini movement. Had 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:56.080 people approach me and even suggest you really need to 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.480 write a book about this, So that's where the idea 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:02.080 came from. I would say some of the other unexpected 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:05.600 benefits were well, one of the big ones was I 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:10.400 just like saved so much money, and I when I started, 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:16.639 I didn't My intention personally wasn't necessarily to save money. 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:20.679 But that's why I call it an unexpected benefit. But 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:22.639 I think there are a lot of people out there 0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:25.280 who they might want to do their own year of 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:28.440 buying nothing so that they can save money. But because 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:31.680 of my perspective on it at the time, I didn't 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:34.600 know how much I was spending on stuff. Probably most 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:38.760 people don't, so I didn't really have like a good 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:40.919 way to say, well, if I don't buy the stuff, 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:43.800 I'm going to save ten thousand dollars. It wasn't really 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:48.879 like that, but I just sort of passively everything I 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:53.119 wasn't spending on stuff just it just went into my 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:55.959 bank account. So at the end of the year, I 0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:58.720 was like, wow, there's a lot of money in here 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:04.040 and there. There are a lot of other factors that 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:07.400 played into this, but it was a huge contributing factor 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:10.720 to me being able to put a deposit down on 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:13.920 building a tiny house. So I've been dreaming of building 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:16.240 a tiny house for a really long time, and so 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:19.760 that is that was the start of that. 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:22.480 And I just I love the idea of you getting 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:23.680 to the end of the year looking at your bank 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:27.919 account and being like I'm rich. Yeah, like it almost 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:30.800 having happened to you. And I mean you've mentioned in 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:32.600 the book too that maybe this is what you're getting 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:35.280 ready to mention, but like you started saving for retirement, 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:37.160 like you started investing for the first time ever. 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:38.240 Is that right? Yeah? 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:45.359 Yeah, I was. I had this excess of money, and 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:49.800 I was I was like this, this feels great because 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:53.000 I don't feel like I've lost anything, Like stuff just 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:56.480 became so much less important to me. And I wasn't 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:58.480 expecting that either. I thought by the end of the year, 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:00.399 I'd be like, I have like a hundred things that 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:02.920 I've been waiting to buy, and I got to the 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:05.440 end of the year and there wasn't anything like that. 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:08.240 I had forgotten most of the things that I was like, oh, 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:10.280 I really wish I could get that. I had a 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:13.080 like a wish list going that I'm like, I know 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:14.600 at the end of the year my mom might ask 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:16.359 me what I want for Christmas or what I want 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:18.680 for my Birthday. I had like two things on there. 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:19.760 Wow. Yeah. 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:24.399 And if I hadn't decided to quit buying things, I 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:27.199 would have spent all that money mindlessly, like I had 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:30.040 been for years where I would go into the grocery 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:32.600 store and some of it is little stuff too. Went 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:36.080 back to your question again about that slow trickle. But 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:38.480 like I would go into the grocery store and buy 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:41.199 a new red lipstick every time I was in the 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:44.120 grocery store, just at habit I did not need any 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:48.000 of that, I think, like, and this was all before, 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:50.320 you know, before I quit buying stuff. But I had 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:52.840 a whole drawer full of red lipsticks. I'm like, no 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:57.160 one needs the smunge lipstick. And so I was like, okay, 0:19:57.200 --> 0:19:59.280 well I'm allowed to buy a lipstick once. 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:00.480 I use up all of these. 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:02.159 And it took two years. 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:05.360 Wow, I want to hear. I want to hear about 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:08.080 the things that you do allow yourself to buy too, Like, 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:11.160