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Speaker 1: Welcome to Out of Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,

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Speaker 1: and today we're talking buying nothing to gain everything with

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Speaker 1: Liz Chai.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so, I don't care how much money you.

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Speaker 1: Make, right it is still possible.

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Speaker 2: To completely spend it all to find yourself at the

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Speaker 2: end of the month with no money in the bank.

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Speaker 2: Studies show that even forty five percent of folks who

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Speaker 2: are high wage earners like so, these are folks who

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Speaker 2: are making more than one hundred thousand dollars that they

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Speaker 2: are living paycheck to paycheck as well. And obviously there

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Speaker 2: are some financial situations that could be resolved with a

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Speaker 2: slightly higher income, but more often than not, we are

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Speaker 2: the problem. We are our own worst enemies because of

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Speaker 2: the ridiculous amounts of stuff.

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Speaker 1: That we buy.

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Speaker 2: And that is why we're excited to be speaking with

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Speaker 2: Liz Chai. Liz is the author of How to Buy

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Speaker 2: Essentially Nothing for a Year, and actually she wrote and

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Speaker 2: illustrated the book. As Liz is a graphic designer, it's

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Speaker 2: a joy to read through. It's beautiful, and she's actually

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Speaker 2: an old friend, which I'm sure we'll touch on a

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Speaker 2: little bit later as well. But when we heard that

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Speaker 2: she was writing a book about her personal journey with consumption,

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Speaker 2: we knew that we had to have her on. Hopefully

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Speaker 2: a lot of folks will be able to be inspired

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Speaker 2: by her journey as well as to leave this episode

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Speaker 2: with some practical tips on how it is that they

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Speaker 2: can buy fewer things. Liz, thank you so much for

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Speaker 2: joining us today on the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Hey guys, glad to have you Liz. This is going

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Speaker 1: to be fun and so much to this. I think

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Speaker 1: I'm just kind of curious from a voyeuristic standpoint too,

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Speaker 1: to know exactly what it's like to go through a

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Speaker 1: whole year with buying nothing. So we'll get into some

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Speaker 1: of those questions to satisfy my curiosity. But our first

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Speaker 1: question for everyone who comes on the show is what

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Speaker 1: do they like to splur John, and I'm particularly interested

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Speaker 1: in what your answer is to this. Ours is craft beer,

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Speaker 1: because but we're still prioritizing save being investing for the future,

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Speaker 1: even while we spend potentially more than we showed on

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Speaker 1: craft beer. What's that for you?

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Speaker 3: Well, since I don't allow myself to buy material things,

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Speaker 3: I usually if I'm going to splurge, it's going to

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Speaker 3: be on an experience, So at the very top of

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Speaker 3: my list is traveling to Copenhagen. I will buy a

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Speaker 3: ticket to Copenhagen. That's my splurge. And fine dining is

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Speaker 3: another thing I will.

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Speaker 1: I love so min Copenhagen.

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Speaker 2: Specifically, you've combined the two because you mentioned that in

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Speaker 2: your book, right, So the ability to not necessarily think

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Speaker 2: twice about taking that trip as well as making that reservation. Yeah, nice, nice, Okay.

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Speaker 2: What is it that made you want to go down

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Speaker 2: this radical path, because at least here in modern America,

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Speaker 2: it's it's a radical path to take where you're attempting

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Speaker 2: to consume almost nothing. Did you come across a book,

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Speaker 2: did you have an intense conversation with a friend? What

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Speaker 2: was it that set you down this path?

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Speaker 3: Gosh, there were so many different actors that led to

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Speaker 3: the decision. When I'm I decided to not buy anything

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Speaker 3: for a year, and that was a New Year's resolution.

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Speaker 3: And usually at the end of every year, I sit

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Speaker 3: down and I make my lists of things that I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna do in the coming year and my goals and

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Speaker 3: all this stuff. You know, it's like a I call

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Speaker 3: it the dreamatorium, where I sit down and just daydream.

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Speaker 3: But this particular year I was living in and a

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Speaker 3: moment of over abundance, it just felt like I had

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Speaker 3: too much, Like I had everything I needed, and I

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Speaker 3: started almost feeling guilty because I was just like, I

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Speaker 3: have everything I need, Why do I keep buying stuff?

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Speaker 3: And I had learned about minimalism, and I had, you know,

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Speaker 3: I'd read Murray Condo's book, and I had followed the

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Speaker 3: minimalists for a while, and I've had always done a

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Speaker 3: very good job of only thrifting things or you know,

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Speaker 3: not spending too much money necessarily, but I still had

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Speaker 3: so many material things. I had so much stuff. And

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Speaker 3: so originally, when I decided to stop buying things for

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Speaker 3: a year, it was because I wanted to experience what

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Speaker 3: it was like to be satisfied with what I already had,

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Speaker 3: and I wanted to be able to like live with less.

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Speaker 3: I didn't want to just continue like gaining more and

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Speaker 3: more and more. So that's that's originally what inspired the

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Speaker 3: New Year's resolution.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so why you're going to thinking through these things?

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Speaker 1: What makes you go down the hardcore route as opposed

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Speaker 1: to making subtle changes.

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Speaker 2: Like why like a normal person?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, right, exactly, Liz, Why are you so not normal.

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Speaker 3: Well, I will say part of my personality is just

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Speaker 3: that I love rules and structure, So that's you know

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Speaker 3: why I sit down and make my lists of stuff.

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Speaker 3: Here's what you're not allowed to do. So part of

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Speaker 3: it is that, and that's sort of just the way

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Speaker 3: my brain works.

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Speaker 1: But also so.

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Speaker 3: I've noticed over the years, and I've been around even

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Speaker 3: I've experienced life with an addict and have seen how

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Speaker 3: difficult it is for someone to make a huge change

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Speaker 3: in their life if they don't make a huge change

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Speaker 3: in their life. So just drop by drop, it's not

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Speaker 3: going to make an impact necessarily on your heart. So

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Speaker 3: that's why I decided to sort of go all in.

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Speaker 3: And I talk about this a little bit in the book.

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Speaker 3: But if you've ever like gone to work out, I

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Speaker 3: do weight training.

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Speaker 1: I try to abort it personally.

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Speaker 3: So if you've ever like gone to the gym and

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Speaker 3: like you select your weight and you start working out

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Speaker 3: and realize it's too it's too light, it makes sense

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Speaker 3: to stop and increase your weight because like, what would

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Speaker 3: even be the point of going to the gym if

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Speaker 3: you're not actually gonna break a sweat while you're there.

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Speaker 3: It's like a waste of your time. So sort of

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Speaker 3: have that same mentality where it's like, if I'm if

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna go all out, I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna challenge myself.

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Speaker 1: Let's do it right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So it makes it and it really created this

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Speaker 3: paradigm shift where I completely have a different view of

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Speaker 3: material possessions now.

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Speaker 1: So like subtle rudder shifts, like a one percent change

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Speaker 1: gradually over time, does take us in a different direction.

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Speaker 1: You're saying, you kind of said it takes a major

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Speaker 1: change to make a major change like that. Explain that

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Speaker 1: to me, and how do you actually do that? Cause

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Speaker 1: it sounds nice to make a radical change, and where

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of a new year here where people

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Speaker 1: are like, hey, radical change sounds kind of awesome, But

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Speaker 1: those radical changes can be more difficult to stick with. Two.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely so a while ago, and this was back

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Speaker 3: so I lived in Atlanta and that's how I know

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Speaker 3: the both of you. Yeah, and before I moved out

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Speaker 3: to where I live now is Portland. A friend of

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Speaker 3: mine challenged me to the minimalists do a game where

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Speaker 3: you get rid of something every day. On day one,

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Speaker 3: you get rid of one thing on day two, you

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Speaker 3: get rid of two things, and you do this for

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Speaker 3: a month. And so that was my introduction to the game,

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Speaker 3: and I actually still continue to play this game almost

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Speaker 3: every day. I have a spreadsheet with a macro and

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Speaker 3: it tallies all the things I've gotten rid of and

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Speaker 3: just another super nerdy thing.

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Speaker 2: That I Yeah, you might need to share with me

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Speaker 2: because I might want to jump on that. Okay, So

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Speaker 2: do you also put an estimated Sorry, you're giving a

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Speaker 2: nice reply here, and I totally am jumping in, but

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Speaker 2: does your mac Does it also include a total value

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Speaker 2: as well? Like, do you even if you give it away?

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Speaker 2: Do you put an estimated dollar amount on there? Or

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Speaker 2: do you only do that for items that you sell?

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Speaker 3: It has a few It's changed over the years, but

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Speaker 3: every year it tallies the quantity of items I've gotten

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Speaker 3: rid of. And that's you know, whether I sell something

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Speaker 3: or give it away, or to recycle it or throw

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Speaker 3: it away or donate it all of all of the options.

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Speaker 3: And now it also includes a tally for the amount

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Speaker 3: of money I earned if I sold something, yeah, or

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Speaker 3: the amount of store credit that I got I exchanged it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you got to.

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Speaker 1: Track the donation for tax purposes. Too, right. I also

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Speaker 1: about that.

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Speaker 2: But I love the fact that this is something you're

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Speaker 2: keeping up with over a long period of time, because

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Speaker 2: we talked about this a few weeks ago. But there

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Speaker 2: are a few things that we look at over the

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Speaker 2: scope of not only multiple years, but even multiple decades

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Speaker 2: or god forbid it like a lifetime, and certain expenses

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Speaker 2: we think, oh gosh, it takes how much money to

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Speaker 2: actually live, But we don't normally look at things that

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Speaker 2: far zoomed out. But I think by doing that that

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Speaker 2: could be incredibly encouraging when it comes to thinking about

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Speaker 2: the stuff we own, trying to find ways to cut

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Speaker 2: back on that. But yeah, sorry to interrupt it. It sounds

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Speaker 2: like this is something you revisit every year where you're

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Speaker 2: looking to continue to unload goods.

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Speaker 3: Every year. I aim to get rid of as many

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Speaker 3: things as it is the year, so twenty twenty four

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Speaker 3: I will try to get rid of twenty twenty four

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Speaker 3: things at least. And that's been easy, honestly, if I'm

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Speaker 3: keeping track. Some of it is small things and some

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Speaker 3: of it is big things. And that kind of goes

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Speaker 3: back to what you were asking about the slow trickle.

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Speaker 3: When I first started playing this, game. I was pretty

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Speaker 3: intimidate by, like how am I going to get rid

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Speaker 3: of four hundred things in a month, And my friend

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Speaker 3: just encouraged me to start small, so I, you know,

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Speaker 3: I'd get rid of Oh I've been hanging on to

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Speaker 3: this business card for a long time, or here's a

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Speaker 3: paper clip or a battery or something, and that's this

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Speaker 3: one small thing, and it helped me to start to

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Speaker 3: get used to playing this game, and it reduces the

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Speaker 3: value of material things in your in your mind. But

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Speaker 3: then I've been playing the game for a long time

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Speaker 3: and I would then, you know, this was back in

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Speaker 3: my buying years. I would go replenish that stuff. So

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Speaker 3: that's slow trickle. I was barely putting a dent in

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Speaker 3: like the amount of things that I that I owned

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Speaker 3: or possessed. So I might get rid of four hundred

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Speaker 3: things in a month, But then.

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Speaker 1: That was just the junk drawer, Yeah exactly.

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Speaker 3: It's most people have about that much stuff just like

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Speaker 3: laying around their house that they can get rid of

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Speaker 3: and they wouldn't even notice it. And I have had

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Speaker 3: multiple estate sales even where I get get rid of

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Speaker 3: things that I bought, and I don't remember what most

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Speaker 3: of those things are, which really says a lot about

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Speaker 3: how we value our stuff. If you were to have

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Speaker 3: a garage sale and get rid of a bunch of stuff,

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Speaker 3: you probably won't even remember what it is that you parted.

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Speaker 1: Ways with you that's true, It's right, Okay.

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Speaker 2: Well, one of the things you say in your book too,

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Speaker 2: is that the fact that you actually feel better when

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Speaker 2: you are not consuming more, when you're not buying anything,

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Speaker 2: so you actually began to view material possessions as burdensome,

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Speaker 2: like the way you write about it's almost like it

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Speaker 2: was taking up space in your mind. Can you kind

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Speaker 2: of explain the shift that took place when you went

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Speaker 2: from seeing it as something that maybe you used to

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Speaker 2: get an endorphin rush, but then it's like you saw

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Speaker 2: it through a different lens and all of a sudden

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Speaker 2: it became this weight.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of people have a different relationship

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Speaker 3: with stuff than I do. But I think it's pretty

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Speaker 3: common for people to get that endorphin rush or they're

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Speaker 3: trying to feel like a void, and so they might

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Speaker 3: be purchasing purchasing stuff mindlessly so that they can feel

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Speaker 3: better for a moment, or to feel a sense of control,

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Speaker 3: like I know, I had a friend who would buy

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Speaker 3: every single issue in like a like a DVD collection

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Speaker 3: or like a book series, Like he had every single

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Speaker 3: one and even like the one with the gold foil

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Speaker 3: stamping that sort of thing. And you know, ultimately, and

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Speaker 3: he admitted this too, but it's just he was really

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Speaker 3: what he was buying was a sense of completeness in

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Speaker 3: being able to have all of those things in full

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Speaker 3: and like to have his shelves lined with like every

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Speaker 3: every possible issue, game or whatever it was. I think

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Speaker 3: he got all of those things. Honestly, we've all and

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Speaker 3: there's like no shame to it. Like I you know,

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Speaker 3: I've I've been a collector of stuff, you know, ever

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Speaker 3: since I was a kid.

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Speaker 2: I worked out, we've all got our own things that

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Speaker 2: were more on to whether yeah it's trinkets or limited

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Speaker 2: release DVDs.

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Speaker 3: Or most people would be appalled if they knew that.

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Speaker 3: Over the course of my life, I've owned hundreds and

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Speaker 3: hundreds of vintage dresses.

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Speaker 1: So well, I want to ask you about that because

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Speaker 1: that feels different because so much of the time when

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Speaker 1: we're trying to curb consumption, what we're what we're looking

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Speaker 1: to do is like stop Amazon purchases or just the

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Speaker 1: knee jerk impulse spends because we're scrolling on social media

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Speaker 1: or something like that. And I think that is a

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Speaker 1: massive culprit for a lot of people today and just

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Speaker 1: and they're like, where did the money go? What is

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Speaker 1: actually in the package that showed up in my doorstep

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Speaker 1: a day or two later? The disconnect, I guess, But

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Speaker 1: you're like, it's it's not the same thing. It's not

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Speaker 1: like you're adding to a landfill when you're buying something

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Speaker 1: used like vintage shopping or thrifting. Does that feel different

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Speaker 1: to you? And was that harder to give up? Do

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Speaker 1: you do any of that these days? Because if there's

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Speaker 1: anybody I know who is more into like the vintage scene,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't name them.

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Speaker 3: Well, there's a couple of different things happening here. So

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Speaker 3: one of it. One of those things is I was

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Speaker 3: buying vintage dresses excessively, Like nobody needs hundreds of vintage dresses.

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Speaker 3: Nobody needs hundreds of dresses, you know, unless they, you know,

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Speaker 3: are a fashion blogger or something like that, if it's

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Speaker 3: relevant to what they do. But I could go a

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Speaker 3: year without repeating. And there was something about that that

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Speaker 3: does that does not feel good, even though I was

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Speaker 3: delighted in every single one of those dresses. You know,

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Speaker 3: eventually I have sold a lot of those. I don't

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Speaker 3: have that many dresses now. But I think one of

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Speaker 3: the ways I justified it was by saying, well, I'm

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Speaker 3: not contributing to fast fashion, I'm not adding to the landfill.

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Speaker 3: But then later I learned more about the purchases that

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Speaker 3: I was making. So you know, most sixties and seventies

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Speaker 3: dresses are made out of polyester, which is plastic. It's

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Speaker 3: like not good for the earth. That's not good for

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Speaker 3: you to even like wear on your body. And so

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Speaker 3: in a way, it's still it's still maybe not good

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Speaker 3: just because I wasn't, you know, buying all my clothes

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Speaker 3: from the outlem all or whatever. I was still living

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Speaker 3: in excess, and I was still not contributing in a

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Speaker 3: positive way to the planet.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, we've got more to talk to with you, Liz,

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Speaker 2: and specifically we want to get into some of the

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Speaker 2: different benefits that you realized by spending less money by

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Speaker 2: buying fewer things. And we're going to talk how later

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Speaker 2: on too, just some practical takeaways and how it is

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Speaker 2: that folks can come up with a plan so that

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Speaker 2: they can buy fewer things.

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Speaker 1: We'll get to all of that right after this. All right,

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Speaker 1: we're back. We're still talking with Liz Chai about buying

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Speaker 1: nothing and kind of all the positive benefits that accrue

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Speaker 1: when you make a pretty radical life change. And Liz,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty was the first buy nothing year that you experienced.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious, like, what sort of ripple effect has that

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Speaker 1: had in your life, and has it been Has it

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Speaker 1: resulted in more permanent and lasting changes maybe than you

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Speaker 1: first imagined? Was it? I guess you think of it

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Speaker 1: as maybe a way to save money or declutter, But

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Speaker 1: my guess is that that's not all. That's not the

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Speaker 1: only impact that I had.

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Speaker 3: Definitely, gosh, there were so many things that I had

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Speaker 3: no idea that were going to happen, all these unexpected benefits.

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Speaker 3: I'll say. So, you know, like I said, I did

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Speaker 3: this as a New Year's resolution. I did it for myself,

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Speaker 3: and it was just like a personal challenge. But by

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Speaker 3: the end of the year, you know, I had shared

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Speaker 3: what I was doing with a few people, and one

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Speaker 3: of my friends thought it was so interesting that he

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Speaker 3: wanted to record a video about it, so he filmed

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Speaker 3: me talking about my project. This was towards the beginning

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Speaker 3: of the year, but we didn't publish the video and

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Speaker 3: till maybe October, and then it got a lot of

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Speaker 3: attention just on our social media channels, and that led

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Speaker 3: to The New York Times published an article about buying Nothing.

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Speaker 3: It was published on the last day of the year,

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Speaker 3: so I had it was day three sixty five of

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Speaker 3: my project. And because of that, a lot of people

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Speaker 3: who read that article came to me asking, well, how

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Speaker 3: can I how can I do what you're doing. So

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Speaker 3: I would never have thought to write a book or

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Speaker 3: you know, even be talking about this with anyone if

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Speaker 3: if I hadn't encountered other people just telling me that

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Speaker 3: they were inspired by the project and that they wanted

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Speaker 3: to do their own year of buying nothing. So that's

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Speaker 3: one of the one of the benefits was it started

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Speaker 3: this almost like a like a little mini movement. Had

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Speaker 3: people approach me and even suggest you really need to

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Speaker 3: write a book about this, So that's where the idea

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Speaker 3: came from. I would say some of the other unexpected

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Speaker 3: benefits were well, one of the big ones was I

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Speaker 3: just like saved so much money, and I when I started,

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Speaker 3: I didn't My intention personally wasn't necessarily to save money.

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Speaker 3: But that's why I call it an unexpected benefit. But

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Speaker 3: I think there are a lot of people out there

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Speaker 3: who they might want to do their own year of

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Speaker 3: buying nothing so that they can save money. But because

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Speaker 3: of my perspective on it at the time, I didn't

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Speaker 3: know how much I was spending on stuff. Probably most

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Speaker 3: people don't, so I didn't really have like a good

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Speaker 3: way to say, well, if I don't buy the stuff,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to save ten thousand dollars. It wasn't really

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Speaker 3: like that, but I just sort of passively everything I

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Speaker 3: wasn't spending on stuff just it just went into my

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Speaker 3: bank account. So at the end of the year, I

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Speaker 3: was like, wow, there's a lot of money in here

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Speaker 3: and there. There are a lot of other factors that

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Speaker 3: played into this, but it was a huge contributing factor

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Speaker 3: to me being able to put a deposit down on

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Speaker 3: building a tiny house. So I've been dreaming of building

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Speaker 3: a tiny house for a really long time, and so

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Speaker 3: that is that was the start of that.

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Speaker 2: And I just I love the idea of you getting

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Speaker 2: to the end of the year looking at your bank

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Speaker 2: account and being like I'm rich. Yeah, like it almost

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Speaker 2: having happened to you. And I mean you've mentioned in

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Speaker 2: the book too that maybe this is what you're getting

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Speaker 2: ready to mention, but like you started saving for retirement,

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Speaker 2: like you started investing for the first time ever.

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Speaker 1: Is that right? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was. I had this excess of money, and

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Speaker 3: I was I was like this, this feels great because

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Speaker 3: I don't feel like I've lost anything, Like stuff just

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Speaker 3: became so much less important to me. And I wasn't

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Speaker 3: expecting that either. I thought by the end of the year,

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Speaker 3: I'd be like, I have like a hundred things that

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Speaker 3: I've been waiting to buy, and I got to the

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Speaker 3: end of the year and there wasn't anything like that.

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Speaker 3: I had forgotten most of the things that I was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I really wish I could get that. I had a

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Speaker 3: like a wish list going that I'm like, I know

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Speaker 3: at the end of the year my mom might ask

381
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Speaker 3: me what I want for Christmas or what I want

382
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Speaker 3: for my Birthday. I had like two things on there.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah.

384
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Speaker 3: And if I hadn't decided to quit buying things, I

385
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Speaker 3: would have spent all that money mindlessly, like I had

386
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Speaker 3: been for years where I would go into the grocery

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Speaker 3: store and some of it is little stuff too. Went

388
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Speaker 3: back to your question again about that slow trickle. But

389
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Speaker 3: like I would go into the grocery store and buy

390
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Speaker 3: a new red lipstick every time I was in the

391
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Speaker 3: grocery store, just at habit I did not need any

392
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Speaker 3: of that, I think, like, and this was all before,

393
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Speaker 3: you know, before I quit buying stuff. But I had

394
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Speaker 3: a whole drawer full of red lipsticks. I'm like, no

395
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Speaker 3: one needs the smunge lipstick. And so I was like, okay,

396
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Speaker 3: well I'm allowed to buy a lipstick once.

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Speaker 1: I use up all of these.

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Speaker 3: And it took two years.

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Speaker 1: Wow, I want to hear. I want to hear about

400
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Speaker 1: the things that you do allow yourself to buy too, Like,

401
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Speaker 1: because so you said, okay, when the lipstick's all worn out,

402
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,280
Speaker 1: I will buy a new lipstick. So when when you

403
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Speaker 1: say year of buying nothing, what are the caveats on

404
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:21,080
Speaker 1: that I guess for you? Because I'm guessing I don't

405
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Speaker 1: know you're you're you're probably not going without socks or

406
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Speaker 1: you know, some of the most basic things, is my guess.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, that is a great question, because a lot

408
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Speaker 3: of people are confused by it, which is why I

409
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Speaker 3: call it buying essentially nothing. I'm only buying what I

410
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Speaker 3: absolutely essentially need and that I had to make my

411
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Speaker 3: own lists of things that I was allowed to buy,

412
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Speaker 3: and so this is going back to my need to

413
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Speaker 3: have rules and structure. I made three lists. One of

414
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,320
Speaker 3: those was okay things that were okay to buy, and

415
00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:56,480
Speaker 3: that was things like food, and okay, I need toothpaste,

416
00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:03,320
Speaker 3: and I need like toilet paper and coffee filters. I

417
00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:06,520
Speaker 3: thought of every possible thing that was part of my

418
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Speaker 3: life that was a need. And I work in coffee,

419
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Speaker 3: so I do need coffee, so aside from.

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Speaker 1: The fact, but it's also just delicious.

421
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, well that too, and it falls under the food

422
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Speaker 3: category as well.

423
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Speaker 1: Some would say it's the best part of waiting out map.

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Speaker 3: Some would say that it is the best part. I

425
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Speaker 3: think so. And when I say I work in coffee,

426
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Speaker 3: I'm a graphic designer in the coffee industry. Just for clarity,

427
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:32,080
Speaker 3: so I made my okay lists and then if it

428
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Speaker 3: wasn't on the okay list, then it was really not

429
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Speaker 3: okay for me to buy. But I had some exceptions

430
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Speaker 3: where it's like it's Okay, if I buy this, if

431
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,960
Speaker 3: the thing that I have breaks, or if the thing

432
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Speaker 3: that I have gets lost and it's a need like

433
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:54,879
Speaker 3: a like a charging cable for my phone, or uh,

434
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Speaker 3: there's not a whole lot of things.

435
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Speaker 1: I can't think of a lot.

436
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:02,360
Speaker 3: Well, when I run out of lotion, that that's one

437
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 3: thing that was on the list, because it's like I

438
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,440
Speaker 3: had so much lotion in the house that it was

439
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 3: going to last me probably all year. But I was like,

440
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 3: okay once, I'm not allowed to buy this until I

441
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 3: run out a lotion.

442
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 1: So I pretty much.

443
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:17,440
Speaker 3: Had very very precise lists of what I was allowed

444
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 3: to buy, what I was not allowed to buy. But

445
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 3: I didn't have like clotheses not on there. And socks.

446
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,200
Speaker 3: I knew I had enough socks to get me through

447
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 3: the year, So socks is not I'm not allowed to

448
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 3: buy socks because I had enough socks. If you're a

449
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:35,000
Speaker 3: person who like you're on your last pair and there's

450
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 3: like a hole is about to appear on your last pair,

451
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 3: I would say, yeah, you probably need some socks. But

452
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 3: the thing that I have to remind people is if

453
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,920
Speaker 3: you're gonna do this, like your life is different than mine,

454
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:53,440
Speaker 3: and your needs are different than mine, and so anyone

455
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,160
Speaker 3: can do this, even if you have kids, even if

456
00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:00,200
Speaker 3: you have you know, even if you're unemployed, or there's

457
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 3: all sorts of people will suggest, like the reason I

458
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:08,480
Speaker 3: can't do that is because of these things. And and

459
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 3: I just think anyone is able to create their own

460
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 3: list of values and goals. Which is what I have

461
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,359
Speaker 3: laid out in the book is it's a guide for

462
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:22,679
Speaker 3: how to create your own buying nothing year so that

463
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 3: it fits with your life and your needs and your lifestyle.

464
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, I Like I think that's like what

465
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 2: your first rule is that you get to set the rules, because,

466
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,439
Speaker 2: like you said, it comes down to the individual. You know,

467
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 2: you were just talking about how you're able to, like

468
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 2: you keep that spreadsheet going with all the stuff that

469
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 2: you sell. I wanted to talk about how we oftentimes

470
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,920
Speaker 2: are tempted to tie our identity to the things that

471
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 2: we buy. Because obviously, when we do sell some stuff

472
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,919
Speaker 2: like that helps to pad the bank accounts some But like,

473
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 2: do you see there being a benefit when it comes

474
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,959
Speaker 2: to our identities, because I think a lot of times,

475
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 2: like we're tempted into believing that we've constructed these identities

476
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 2: but oftentimes it's based around consumption. And I'm curious if

477
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 2: you found there to be a benefit that when you

478
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 2: did unload certain things that it was sort of like

479
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 2: you acknowledging to yourself that you're moving forward, like you're okay,

480
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 2: there's growth happening here, or there's change happening here. I'm

481
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 2: not who I used to be. I'd just love to

482
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 2: hear your thoughts on that.

483
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:27,479
Speaker 3: Absolutely. I think identity is a huge part of why

484
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 3: I purchased so much stuff, so many vintage dresses, so

485
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 3: many red lipsticks. It was part of my persona. And

486
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 3: I explored this a lot as I was writing the book,

487
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 3: because I had to think back all the way to

488
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 3: my childhood and my younger years of like the types

489
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 3: of things that I would buy. And you know, I

490
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 3: went in the early two thousands, I went through this

491
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 3: phase of like, well, I have to decorate my house

492
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 3: and my design studio with all these posts to show

493
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 3: how good my taste is. Or I have to have

494
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 3: this album or you know, this book to show how

495
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 3: intellectual I am, or have to you know, be into

496
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 3: this band to show everyone like how good my music

497
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 3: taste is. And like so many of the things that

498
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:22,479
Speaker 3: I purchased. I think that they were trying to They

499
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 3: were like an expression of who I was, but I didn't.

500
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 3: It was maybe not always, but maybe for me to

501
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 3: show other people, and it was also for me to

502
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,640
Speaker 3: try and convince myself, like I was trying to figure

503
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 3: out who I was and now, like I so back

504
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:46,159
Speaker 3: back in the days, the days of buying stuff, I

505
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 3: had a lot. I had multiple houses. I had a

506
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 3: gorgeous three thousand square foot freestanding modern loft with eight

507
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 3: souzz It had two living rooms, and you know, I

508
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 3: had to decorate this whole house and all of it

509
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 3: was like, this is my house, This is the expression

510
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 3: of me and who I am. And you know, I

511
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 3: had an idea of the way people perceived me. And

512
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 3: then I went through a very difficult time in my

513
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,959
Speaker 3: life and I lost everything. And that was also a

514
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 3: pretty big factor into what played into this entire project,

515
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 3: is losing everything that I had. You know, invested so

516
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 3: much of my identity and money, time and energy. I

517
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 3: put all of that into this and then I lost it.

518
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 3: And then I still was left with me and had

519
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 3: to figure out, Okay, well what does that look like now?

520
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 3: And so you know, I moved across the country, and

521
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 3: so it's this opportunity to sort of like redefine your identity.

522
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 3: And I think people's identities change in their life as well,

523
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 3: Like I'm not the same person that I was when

524
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, I have to have this band

525
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 3: poster so people know, you know, like I don't give

526
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 3: a crap anymore.

527
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 1: Like what I will say That Hanson poster was really

528
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 1: cool though, you know.

529
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 3: No, I'm a little too old for Hansoon. No, this

530
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 3: was like Wes Anderson days, like the early aughts. Uh huh,

531
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 3: so you can you can only imagine.

532
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so you mentioned you mentioned, you know, losing

533
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: losing it all, and you actually before we started recording,

534
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 1: you mentioned you told us that you you lost your

535
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 1: job earlier this year. And I'm curious after so many years, obviously,

536
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: there's so many negative things about losing a job, right,

537
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: It's uh, it's a loss of community with coworkers, it's

538
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 1: something you love to do. It's like what am I

539
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 1: going to do next to make income? But at least

540
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: not having financial insecurity looming, like the sort of damicles

541
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 1: over your head when that happens. Talk to me, it

542
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: was that like a relief, uh for you knowing that, wait,

543
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,120
Speaker 1: I'm actually kind of prepared to wade through these waters.

544
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, it definitely. So I was laid off in the

545
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 3: spring and now we're at the end of the year,

546
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 3: so I've basically gone eight or nine months, and it's

547
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 3: it in a way, it was it's actually a really

548
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,360
Speaker 3: it was a really good thing to be laid off

549
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 3: because I was already thinking like it might be time

550
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 3: for my next step career wise, and it's it's great

551
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 3: when someone throws you in the deep end of the

552
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 3: pool makes the decision for you. But I already had

553
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 3: the resources and when I say resources like my tools

554
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 3: for how to operate when I'm in financial stability and

555
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 3: when I'm not and so and I had, you know,

556
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 3: like I said, I had just excessive money just sitting around.

557
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 3: Not that I you know, not times and tons of

558
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 3: money just laying around, But I had enough where I

559
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 3: didn't need to immediately go into a panic because I'm

560
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 3: not spending that stuff or at that money on all

561
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 3: this stuff. And I've continued, you know, it's been four

562
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 3: years now, I'm about to close out my fourth year

563
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 3: of buying essentially nothing. So I really felt scared at first,

564
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 3: but then I could shift right over to like, here's

565
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 3: here's what I need to do to make adjustments. And

566
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 3: so since I wasn't buying stuff, the next move that

567
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 3: I made to just like create a more of a

568
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 3: sense of like, hey, I'm going to be all right

569
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 3: till I figure out what I'm going to do, I trimmed,

570
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 3: like I didn't allow myself to just buy whatever food

571
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 3: I wanted to, which was the previous allowance. I could

572
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 3: get whatever food I wanted to, Like I said, foie

573
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 3: gras and steak and fine dining.

574
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, no more reservation.

575
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I think being flexible like that though, that's

576
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 2: that's so key, especially when it comes to your expenses,

577
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 2: but also to the income side of the equation. Right,

578
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 2: And so when we were preparing to set up this interview,

579
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 2: you mentioned how you actually you couldn't record in one

580
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 2: of the rooms you're planning to because you've got an

581
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 2: Airbnb guest. It sounds like you've got some flexibility there,

582
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 2: just being a little more open minded to what it

583
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 2: is that it looks like to make some income maybe

584
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 2: while things are going great, but also certainly while things

585
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 2: may not be looking so hot, right, Yeah.

586
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 3: I immediately started. Well, I had already planned to be

587
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 3: hosting on Airbnb. So, like I said, I had put

588
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 3: a deposit down on a tiny house. And in Portland,

589
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 3: everyone who owns a property can put a tiny house

590
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 3: or an adu on it without any permitting. And so

591
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 3: I had shifted over from apartment living to I bought

592
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 3: a house with the intention of leasing it out or

593
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 3: putting it on Airbnb, and then I would be living

594
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 3: in the tiny house. So I don't have the tiny

595
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 3: house yet. I had to in a sense put that

596
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 3: on pause. So I'm living in the house and I

597
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 3: have one of my rooms up on Airbnb and I

598
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 3: made probably four grand on that this last year, just

599
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 3: hosting people. And I also there's an app called Neighbor

600
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 3: where you can rent out your driveway or your.

601
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 1: Shed to people.

602
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 3: So I've I've been doing that as well, like little

603
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 3: things like that. And also you know, I sell stuff.

604
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 3: I still do that pretty regularly, and like I said,

605
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 3: I keep track of that in my spreadsheet. I'll find

606
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 3: things on the side of the road and sell it. Okay,

607
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 3: to the point where I've had to sometimes tell myself, okay,

608
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 3: you can't, you have to take a break from that

609
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 3: because it's it's kind of addicting. And I was also

610
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 3: in this habit of like, oh I can I can

611
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 3: take stuff junk that I got for free and get

612
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 3: store credit in a shop and then use that store

613
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 3: credit to obtain something new. Like actually furnished my entire

614
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 3: house without buying anything. Some of it I got things

615
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 3: with store credit, some of it I got in my

616
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 3: buy Nothing group, some of it I got on the

617
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 3: side of the road or Craigslist for free. And I, yeah,

618
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 3: furnished the entire Airbnb without buying stuff.

619
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 2: And it looks awesome by the way, too, Like we

620
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 2: know your sense of style, like you've got incredible taste,

621
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 2: and I don't know if you've got a good photo,

622
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 2: but maybe we'll yeah, put that out. Yeah, we'll post

623
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 2: a pot of so that folks can see that it

624
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 2: is possible, because I think a lot of times folks

625
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 2: will hear this and they're thinking, oh my gosh, I

626
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 2: bet it's like totally.

627
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: Disgusting it, but it's it's my dumpster. Yeah. Do you

628
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: ever find dinner on the side of the road, Liz,

629
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: or do you go back that far? Okay, all right,

630
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: I'm just wondering, just wanted you got to ask a question.

631
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: So okay, we've got We've got a few more questions

632
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: to go to and including Liz. We want to ask

633
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: you about the practical side of things. How do you

634
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: acquire and source the things that you want or need?

635
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: You gave just a little insight, but I want to

636
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: get dig a little bit deeper on that. We'll get

637
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: to a few more questions with Liz right after this.

638
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 3: Part.

639
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 2: We are back from the break talking with Liz chy

640
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 2: and So, Liz, earlier in the interview here, you mentioned

641
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 2: one of the steps that you reckon for folks to

642
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 2: take when it comes to putting together a plan to

643
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 2: buy nothing. You mentioned I think it's step two. That's

644
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 2: where you kind of make your separate lists for you.

645
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 2: It's the okay list, that's the things that you give

646
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 2: yourself appression to buy. You've got the okay if list

647
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 2: where you are able to implement some rules, but you've

648
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 2: also got the not okay list. Basically, these are just

649
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 2: categories of things that you are either allowing yourself to

650
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 2: buy or not allowing yourself to buy. But how is

651
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 2: it that you even arrive at those lists? What is

652
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 2: it that informs those lists, and how do we make

653
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 2: sure that we're able to follow through with sticking to that.

654
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, like I was saying earlier, you really need to

655
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 3: go hard. You need to truly challenge yourself. Otherwise it's

656
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 3: just too easy. And I've even found in even in

657
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 3: my years of buying nothing, it's almost too easy. Like

658
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 3: I was able to furnish my whole house without buying

659
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 3: stuff and just just by being resourceful. So I would say,

660
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 3: one thing I did while I was making my list

661
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 3: was just look around my house and be like, how

662
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 3: did I get that? How did I get that? Is

663
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 3: that something that I would want to buy during the year?

664
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 3: Is it some you know, like something that is one

665
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 3: of my vices, like going I would go to the

666
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 3: art store and buy gel pens, even though I have

667
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 3: like hundreds of pens. Nobody needs more gel pens. So

668
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 3: I'd put things that were like my big vices on

669
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 3: that not okay list, almost as like a reminder of

670
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 3: the things like, hey, I know you're really gonna want this,

671
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 3: you're not allowed to get it. So otherwise it's it's

672
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,240
Speaker 3: pretty easy to just say, well, if I'm not buying

673
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 3: anything unless it's on the okay list, then everything is

674
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:57,879
Speaker 3: not okay. Does that make sense?

675
00:34:58,080 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, the default.

676
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I didn't really even need to look at

677
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 3: the not okay list. It was sort of just there

678
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 3: as like this hey, last minute reminder of like, no,

679
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 3: you cannot get another journal, you cannot get like another

680
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 3: vintage dress, you can't get another you know whatever it

681
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 3: is that is my things that I would really really want.

682
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 3: So it almost just became not necessary for me to

683
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 3: look at that list. It was more the okay lists

684
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 3: of just this reminder you're allowed to get these things

685
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 3: and nothing else.

686
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 1: I just kind of had the thought that living in

687
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: America makes this possible. Right, the kind of conspicuous consumption

688
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,760
Speaker 1: lifestyle that most people adopt, the vast majority of people adopt,

689
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 1: means that you can kind of get there gently use

690
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: secondhand stuff. I mean, I was talking to a friend

691
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: who's remodeling his place, and he was just talking about

692
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: how people remodel their kitchen every two or three years,

693
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:50,959
Speaker 1: and I was like, wait, who are these people? He says,

694
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 1: some people remodel their kitchen every too, And so the

695
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 1: appliance is he's buying, is he's rehabbing his home, are

696
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 1: gently used they're gorgeous and they're a third of the price.

697
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 1: It's it's if you just look into that ecosystem and

698
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 1: you can thrive off the secondhand, hand me downs, discounted

699
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 1: or fully free items that other people are willing to

700
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:13,439
Speaker 1: give away. It's not I mean, the phrase one man's

701
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 1: trash is another man's treasure comes to mind here. But

702
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 1: don't you think that part of it is because we

703
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: live in this society of incredible extreme abundance, that means

704
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 1: like living off the fat of the land that other

705
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: people don't want to is just much easier than it

706
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:28,240
Speaker 1: would be in a lot of other places.

707
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think people are picking up on that too,

708
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 3: and that's why there's this there's a movement where people

709
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 3: are giving out of their abundance in different online groups,

710
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 3: and people constantly have this need to get rid of

711
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 3: their too much stuff. And so if you're resourceful or

712
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,439
Speaker 3: if you're patient, then you can usually find the thing

713
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 3: that you're looking for without having to buy it all.

714
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 1: Right, So in that ecosystem you've mentioned Facebook buying nothink groups,

715
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 1: people know, people know about those. I think for the

716
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 1: most part, Facebook marketplace another place typically you're buying or trading.

717
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 1: I guess with people in that you must have stumbled

718
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 1: upon other ecosystems and even well, how else do you

719
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,320
Speaker 1: source things? Are you like actually going to your neighbor

720
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 1: to get a cup of sugar when you don't have it?

721
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 1: Whereas most people like don't do that, They like click

722
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,919
Speaker 1: to buy on instacart or something like that, like what

723
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: other muscles? Has it made you exercise? And where else

724
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 1: have you looked to gather things that you otherwise would

725
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: have just clicked to purchase?

726
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 3: Well, definitely there are some items that I would have

727
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 3: just gone out and purchased if I hadn't completely shifted

728
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 3: my mentality on this stuff. So borrowing things kind of

729
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 3: forgot about that until it turns out that that's like

730
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 3: maybe the only way I can get like I need

731
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 3: a shovel because I have to dig a hole, or

732
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 3: I need a ladder, So I've borrowed those things from

733
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,720
Speaker 3: my neighbors. I have actually borrowed a cup of sugar

734
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 3: from a neighbor from my buy nothing group where I

735
00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 3: put lend me some sugar babes in the vina thing

736
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 3: group and ended up with you know what I needed,

737
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 3: and I you know, I could have gone to this

738
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 3: store to buy sugar, but why not just go a

739
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 3: few houses up.

740
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like it's funny how you positioned it, which

741
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:15,760
Speaker 2: is like, oh, it's this thing that I had forgotten

742
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 2: about borrowing, because, like Joel's saying, like, we do live

743
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 2: in such a country that is so rich and abundant

744
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 2: and comfortable that we forget about this folks, the old

745
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 2: thing of borrowing something. And we also miss out on

746
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 2: the benefit of getting to know the people who live

747
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 2: around us when we choose to isolate ourselves so click

748
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,479
Speaker 2: to buy kind of mentality when we're so self sufficient, Yes,

749
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 2: as opposed to leaning into other folks. And Yeah, there's

750
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,919
Speaker 2: a there's a loneliness that comes with that comfort that

751
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 2: I what I'm hearing you say is that you're experiencing

752
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 2: that community in a richer way than maybe you otherwise

753
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 2: would have.

754
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I actually borrowed a pair of headphones for this podcast.

755
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. I love that. I love that. I mean,

756
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 1: and it's one of those things where you can say, listen,

757
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 1: I've got to book. The just came out and it's

758
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 1: going to be massively successful, and I'm going to get

759
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: on dozens of famous podcasts. And so this is something

760
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: I can make an exception for. But even in that

761
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,760
Speaker 1: you found a way to borrow at borrow something instead

762
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: of buying something new. Okay, let's say we opt to

763
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 1: take this route. Let's say people are listening and they're saying, like, okay, cool,

764
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 1: maybe this time for me to go cold turkey to

765
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 1: buy nothing. It's January twenty twenty four, a perfect time

766
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: to make a change. How do you have conversations with

767
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 1: friends and family who might be shocked by the choice

768
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 1: that you're making. Is this or let's say you have

769
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:36,720
Speaker 1: a spouse or a partner who's a big time spender,

770
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: or kids who I don't know, how do you kind

771
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 1: of start to have those conversations. I'm guessing that when

772
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: you went into this you some people were like, whoa,

773
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 1: this is crazy. Have you gone off the deep end?

774
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 3: Yeah? I did actually have a lot of people who

775
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 3: pushed back on it. I generally surround myself with supportive

776
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 3: people anyway, so there wasn't a lot of discouragement. But

777
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 3: if you find yourself in a situation where maybe your

778
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 3: family members aren't too keen on your idea, especially if

779
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 3: it's like your kids are like, but how am I

780
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:13,280
Speaker 3: going to get this stuff that I want? I always

781
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,800
Speaker 3: go back to this, It's just you can't. You cannot

782
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 3: control other people. You can really only do this sort

783
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,720
Speaker 3: of thing for yourself. And so there are many times

784
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,720
Speaker 3: when I talk about buying nothing that I have someone

785
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,879
Speaker 3: come up to me and say, well, can you get

786
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 3: my wife to stop buying? And I was like, no, No,

787
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 3: it doesn't work that way, Like, you can't, that's not

788
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 3: the way inspiration works. So I encourage people to just

789
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:48,240
Speaker 3: focus on themselves and maybe complete the endeavor on their own,

790
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 3: and it might inspire change in other people. And I

791
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 3: think that that's a much better way to operate, so

792
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 3: especially if they're facing that sort of pushback while you're

793
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 3: doing it for yourself and there might be the icing

794
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 3: on the cake of it buying other people. And I've

795
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 3: had a lot of people come to me saying like,

796
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 3: I really need help with this, or I really want

797
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:07,879
Speaker 3: to get your thoughts, or I'm thinking about doing this,

798
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,760
Speaker 3: can you help me? And so it's a lot better

799
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,320
Speaker 3: than trying to force your ways on other people.

800
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's like living that lifestyle, it can be contagious, right,

801
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 1: and so you can it's the old Saint Francis of

802
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 1: a CC like preach the gospel and when necessary use

803
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 1: words and so it's like living out the life of

804
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:27,879
Speaker 1: someone doing something different as opposed to be and super

805
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 1: preachy about it and say like join the bandwagon. So

806
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: as you just have to do the thing that you

807
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 1: know is right for you and hope that other people

808
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: join you in the endeavor.

809
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 3: And I do think it would be inspiring for the

810
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 3: people that you're around, just I guess based off my

811
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 3: own experience. And it's like a be the change moment too,

812
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 3: where you get to contribute in your own way to

813
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 3: maybe improving the world around you, and you really only

814
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 3: have that chance. You're only able to change what you

815
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,839
Speaker 3: can change in your own life and hopefully it leads

816
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:03,720
Speaker 3: to positive change in other people.

817
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 2: So that's true. Yeah, I think you said that that

818
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 2: once you've done it yourself and have seen some of

819
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 2: that positive change, like you automatically qualify as an expert

820
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:15,439
Speaker 2: at that point, because what are you gonna do deny

821
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 2: my personal experience? Of course not it's said the ability

822
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 2: to of course not hit somebody over the head with that,

823
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 2: but for them to see that as a bystander, hopefully

824
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 2: can inspire them to make some change, and Liz, hopefully

825
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 2: this conversation has done the same. We hopefully folks are

826
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 2: able to leave this episode with just a little more

827
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 2: fire underneath them to perhaps do something that they thought

828
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 2: would would have been previously completely undoable. Little countercultural. Not

829
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 2: possible exactly. But so your book's out, how to buy

830
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 2: essentially Nothing for a year? Where where is it that

831
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 2: folks can learn more about that book and to learn

832
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 2: more about you and what you're up to.

833
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 3: Well, the book is available. You can go to buy

834
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 3: it essentially nothing dot com. It's self published, but you

835
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 3: can purchase the book online. It will be available as

836
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,320
Speaker 3: a print or as a digital download. And I don't

837
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 3: have social media set up for the book. I've pretty

838
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 3: much just operated on my own. I even had a

839
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 3: year of no social media and it was twenty twenty one.

840
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:13,879
Speaker 3: So right after that New York Times article came out,

841
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 3: I went dark social and was like, well, I'm doing

842
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:20,319
Speaker 3: this for myself. Sorry, I'm not here to sit here

843
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 3: and like promote my thing. But if you want to

844
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:27,879
Speaker 3: visit my channel on Instagram, I'm at Chai Americano. That's

845
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,399
Speaker 3: just my personal account where I post a lot of

846
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 3: stuff about buying essentially nothing, but I also talk about

847
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 3: coffee a lot. Coffee too bad.

848
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 1: I love it. Liz. This has been such a great

849
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: combo and good to catch up with an old friend.

850
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 1: So thank you for joining us today on the show.

851
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 3: Thank you guys so much.

852
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 2: Well man, that was fun. It really was good to

853
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 2: talk with an old friend with My big takeaway is

854
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 2: that we need to have friends who write books so

855
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 2: that we can have them on there's an excuse to

856
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:54,840
Speaker 2: have them on the.

857
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,280
Speaker 1: Podcast of our other friends would not be great. Guess

858
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 1: you know who we're talking.

859
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 2: They don't want to come on the show and talk

860
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 2: to us anymore than they have to. But uh now,

861
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 2: this really was an awesome conversation about just curbing our consumption.

862
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 1: With Liz Chi.

863
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 2: But Joel, yeah, did you have an actual big takeaway

864
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 2: for folks today?

865
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 1: Yeah?

866
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 2: So or for you as an individual that you want

867
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:16,359
Speaker 2: to share with folks. It's not for other people, it's

868
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 2: for you.

869
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think from just a macro perspective, it's amazing

870
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 1: how much money you can save. She thought she was

871
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 1: going to be a perpetual renter. She was able to

872
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 1: buy a house, and so I think, like it's not

873
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 1: an insignificant amount of money you can save if you

874
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: kind of take this Liz Chai buy nothing mentality and

875
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: you adopt it into your own life. But I think

876
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 1: my big takeaway was when she said I wanted to

877
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: experience satisfaction and that buying nothing was something that was

878
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 1: going to increase her happiness in life. And I do

879
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 1: think that sometimes the retail therapy buying stuff is covering over,

880
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 1: it's glossing over maybe some deeper feelings that we've got

881
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 1: going on, and it allows us to kind of skim over,

882
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:57,479
Speaker 1: not have to feel them, satisfy them through consumption. And

883
00:44:57,880 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 1: I think maybe the more we curve back on that,

884
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,839
Speaker 1: we might actually have like some stuff, some hard things

885
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: to deal with as we consume less, because that has

886
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 1: been kind of like a bomb that we applied to

887
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:08,319
Speaker 1: a wound, and then when that wound is just kind

888
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:11,320
Speaker 1: of open, it's it's revealing and it's we have to

889
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: actually deal with the underlying problem. So it's not even

890
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 1: a ball, and it just kind of like it's a

891
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 1: dirty bandage over it. It's like I can't see it anymore.

892
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 1: Maybe it's better, right, but in fact it is still

893
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 1: there and that's the problem too. I mean I kind

894
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 1: of mentioned this at the very very beginning of the episode,

895
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 1: just how high wage earners are dealing with as well,

896
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:32,479
Speaker 1: because we just continually move the goalposts and we think that, oh, well,

897
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 1: this used to make me happy and it doesn't anymore.

898
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,879
Speaker 2: But what I act, truly, what I need now is this. Yeah,

899
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 2: And like you said, we oftentimes don't address the underlying

900
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:41,280
Speaker 2: issues there.

901
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:43,320
Speaker 1: And there's no end to the things you can desire

902
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: and the things you can buy. And then it's like

903
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: you got the new house, but then you can buy

904
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 1: all the stuff.

905
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,880
Speaker 2: But then after that you're buying. You're buying companies, yeah,

906
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 2: and renaming them or you're.

907
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 1: Like, listen, I got the house, but now now I

908
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:54,720
Speaker 1: need a pool in the backyard to be real happy.

909
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:57,439
Speaker 1: And it's a bittero effect right there. Yeah, we all

910
00:45:57,480 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 1: have experienced that, like we You and I not immune

911
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 1: from that in any way, form or fashion. And I

912
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:04,240
Speaker 1: need to take a lot of this medicine myself. So

913
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 1: that is that's why I really wanted to talk to

914
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:08,879
Speaker 1: Liz read her book. I don't know that I will

915
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 1: go whole hog the way that she has, but I

916
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 1: definitely am planning to incorporate a lot of kind of

917
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 1: the ways that she's talked about buying less, curbing consumption

918
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 1: in her own life.

919
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, so my big takeaway is going to be super practical.

920
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:22,479
Speaker 2: And she mentioned the birthday list, and she writes about

921
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 2: this more in depth in the book. But the ability

922
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 2: to create a list, an ongoing list of things that

923
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:29,400
Speaker 2: you want or things that you think you need. But

924
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 2: by forcing yourself to not immediately go into Amazon, added

925
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 2: to your card and click, you know, click to buy. Well,

926
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 2: by denying yourself you see that over time, Oh, actually

927
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 2: that isn't necessary. But then b if you do still

928
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 2: want that thing when it does come time to be

929
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,320
Speaker 2: your birthday, well, guess what, You've got some awesome gifts

930
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 2: that you're going to be so stoked about.

931
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:49,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, that you can mention to folks. So you've been

932
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 1: salivating over for months.

933
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's not like it's some game changing tactic,

934
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 2: but just the mind there's a shift in mindset that

935
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 2: takes place, and that has taken place with technology. Just

936
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 2: our ability to buy any and everything that we need

937
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:05,840
Speaker 2: like the second you think about it. And so just

938
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 2: to govern ourselves a little bit by saying, well, do

939
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 2: I actually need that thing and holding off a little bit.

940
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 2: I think by implementing a strategy, just like she mentioned

941
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 2: creating a birthday list that can kind of be a

942
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 2: mental check. It's there as a mechanism that gives you pause,

943
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 2: and I think that that's more than anything what it

944
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 2: is that we need oftentimes in.

945
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 1: Our lives, and also make my mom happier because then

946
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 1: when she asked me what I want for my birthday Christmas,

947
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 1: I actually have something to tell it because I'm used

948
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 1: to buying what I need exactly what I think I

949
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: need at least, and instead of doing that, I can

950
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 1: let her take care of yes and actually give her

951
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:37,839
Speaker 1: the satisfaction being able to buy me something that I want.

952
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:39,840
Speaker 2: It's one of those shifts that takes place as you

953
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 2: we're like, oh, I'm a grown man, I can buy

954
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:44,439
Speaker 2: my own things. Yeah, and then when it does come

955
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 2: time for I'm getting off track. But like when it

956
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:49,839
Speaker 2: does come time to forgift giving, it's something that you

957
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 2: feel prepared for. It makes me also think about the

958
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,359
Speaker 2: little conversation we had about community and the fact that

959
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 2: that is also something that is denied by our ability

960
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,879
Speaker 2: to purchase anything whenever it is that we we don't

961
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 2: have to ask our neighbor for things because oh, I

962
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 2: can order it right now, and then the delivery guy

963
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,920
Speaker 2: Amazon man, he'll show up this afternoon. No need to

964
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 2: text your neighbors or let alone walk over to their house.

965
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:13,319
Speaker 2: Oh God forbid you actually go over to their house

966
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 2: and see them in person knock on the door, when

967
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 2: in reality, that's just such a rich way to foster

968
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 2: community and get to know your neighbors.

969
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:23,399
Speaker 1: Yeah. Agree, I like that part as well. I'm all

970
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: for individualism has many benefits. But individualism and community are

971
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:32,319
Speaker 1: symbiotic in my estimation, right that they do. Oh, you

972
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:35,320
Speaker 1: can be overly individualistic and you can be overly relying

973
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:37,239
Speaker 1: on your community, but both are important and they can

974
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 1: live together in harmony. Yeah.

975
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, when it comes to what it looks like for

976
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 2: us to be well rounded individuals, got to have a

977
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:44,439
Speaker 2: little bit of both of that in there for sure.

978
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 3: Man.

979
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 2: Let's get to our beer. We enjoyed a dead on.

980
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:51,839
Speaker 2: This is a double IPA brewed by hid and River Brewing.

981
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 1: What were your thoughts, buddy, Maybe this one was very

982
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 1: similar actually to the last one that we had from them.

983
00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 1: This was soft and hoppy. It was delicious. It was

984
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 1: cloud like in its levity, but also brought a hot

985
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 1: punch like I. Whatever this brewery is doing, they're doing

986
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 1: it right. I've never had anything by them until recently,

987
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 1: and I'm in. I'm sold.

988
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 2: It makes me realize how many great breweries there must

989
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,839
Speaker 2: be across this massive country that we, yes, we've never

990
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 2: heard of. Yeah yeah, it's not even on our radar.

991
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:22,240
Speaker 2: But yeah, so glad you and I got to enjoy

992
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 2: this double I p A. I mean, honestly, it makes

993
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 2: me want to visit Pennsylvania because we've had multiple beers

994
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,399
Speaker 2: now from Pennsylvania that are phenomenal. But uh yeah, big

995
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 2: thanks again to Rihanna for donating this one to the show,

996
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 2: and head over to the website howamoney dot com.

997
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:37,760
Speaker 1: Up there.

998
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 2: In the show notes for this episode, you'll find links

999
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:43,880
Speaker 2: to Liz's site, where it is that you can not

1000
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:46,320
Speaker 2: only learn more about her, but also buy her.

1001
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 1: Book and then after that buy nothing else. Right, all right,

1002
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 1: that's gonna do it? Right?

1003
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 2: You can download it, I guess, so if you've got

1004
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 2: a kindle, you know you can. It doesn't have to

1005
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 2: be a physical item that you've got laying around.

1006
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:58,399
Speaker 1: But in her book has worksheets and stuff that kind

1007
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:00,760
Speaker 1: of help you, like, actually do the work of figuring

1008
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:02,720
Speaker 1: out how to do it, as opposed to just telling

1009
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:04,839
Speaker 1: you how she did it. That's true, all right, that's

1010
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 1: gonna do it for this episode, Matt. Until next time.

1011
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:08,839
Speaker 1: Best friends have best Friends Out