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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh,

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Speaker 1: and Chuck's here too, and so Jerry, and this is

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Speaker 1: stuff you should know. I don't have a shirt on.

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Speaker 1: That's cool. I don't have pants on. I probably should

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Speaker 1: have told you that before we got going, but or

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Speaker 1: not at all. But that is a definitely the state

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Speaker 1: that we're in these days. It's totally fine that you're

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Speaker 1: not wearing a shirt while we're recording. I went to

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Speaker 1: put one on, and then I was like, why, that's

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Speaker 1: a great question to ask yourself every morning. Really, by

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Speaker 1: the way, we should point out I just noticed. I

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Speaker 1: don't think I told you this, but I noticed today

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Speaker 1: I got um, I haven't always have a a Google

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Speaker 1: search setting for stuff you should know when that pops up,

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Speaker 1: and it popped up that our board game is for

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Speaker 1: sale on Amazon dot com again. Finally it came back

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Speaker 1: in huh, I guess so. And it's on sale, so

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Speaker 1: it's like off even if anyone wants it. We should

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Speaker 1: point out I looked at the negative reviews. This is

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Speaker 1: not trivial pursuit. This is this completely different stuff you

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Speaker 1: should know. Game that Trivial Pursuit loved and wanted to

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Speaker 1: co brand. Uh So, as far as the one star

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Speaker 1: reviews that say this doesn't work with my trivial pursuit board,

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Speaker 1: I've tried to mash them together, but it's out there again.

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Speaker 1: I think if people are interested in that, yeah, hopefully

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Speaker 1: they are. I didn't realize that was a plug until

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Speaker 1: about halfway through. You're still thinking about shirt. I thought

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Speaker 1: there's some story, right, I thought there was some story

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Speaker 1: coming out of it, and then I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I see where he's going with this. No, I just

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Speaker 1: I noticed that this morning, so I thought i'd mentioned

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Speaker 1: before we get into what will admittedly be a bit

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Speaker 1: of a freewheeling dicussion. I think on alien first contact,

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Speaker 1: this one didn't quite fit into our what we like

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Speaker 1: to do, which is sort of a tighter beginning, middle

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Speaker 1: in type of thing. So I think this will be

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Speaker 1: a little more free wheeling. It's actually super appropriate because

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Speaker 1: that's basically the same instution attitude that humanity has shown

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Speaker 1: towards the possibility of having to communicate with aliens thus far.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's just kind of like, uh, yeah, we'll

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Speaker 1: figure that out on the fly after it happens kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. And that's really I mean, in some ways,

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Speaker 1: it's like, well, yeah, I mean, why would we waste

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Speaker 1: any time figuring out what we're going to say to

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Speaker 1: aliens if we're not even certain that aliens exist. But

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Speaker 1: in another way, if you look at it, you can say,

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Speaker 1: like that is extraordinarily irresponsible, and like, really, how much

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Speaker 1: time and resource and money would it take to say, hey,

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Speaker 1: you group of humans who are into this, can you

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Speaker 1: go figure out what we should do and what we

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Speaker 1: should say some contingency plans just in case? Just in case?

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Speaker 1: Um so, I mean it kind of just depends on

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Speaker 1: your perspective, I think. But there are people out there, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: who are working on this. They're just not really receiving

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Speaker 1: any government funding, and they may or may not be

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Speaker 1: being listened to by governments around the world. But there

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Speaker 1: are people who have us covered to an extent. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a good preamble, thank you, I think. I guess

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Speaker 1: you know. The first thing we should talk about briefly

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Speaker 1: at least, are the couple of ways that this could

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Speaker 1: go down. Uh. One of them is far less interesting

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Speaker 1: than the other, which is to say, if we find

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Speaker 1: evidence of primitive life. Let's say let's say the Mars

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Speaker 1: rover UH finds and and there has been some promising

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Speaker 1: evidence of life on Mars. But if we find like

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Speaker 1: a mold or some weird you know, virus or just

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Speaker 1: microbes or anything on Mars, not super ex siding, but

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Speaker 1: they still have to sort of prepare how they would

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Speaker 1: handle that, and they have talked about that kind of thing,

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Speaker 1: and they basically have said that if that happened, there

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Speaker 1: would be like a joint press conference and all the

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Speaker 1: scientists would be involved, and then they would start studying

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Speaker 1: that stuff. I think the real money and sort of

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Speaker 1: the fun of this discussion comes when we talk about

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Speaker 1: intelligent life, because you know, that's what that's the money. Topic.

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Speaker 1: Is something more like close encounters of the third kind? No, definitely,

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Speaker 1: but there's a little more on discovering primitive life. What

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Speaker 1: you just described that press conference that already happened back

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Speaker 1: in with the a l H eight four zero zero

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Speaker 1: one meteorite that turned out to be a chunk of

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Speaker 1: four and a half billion year old um Mars basically

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Speaker 1: that had broken off at some point and landed in Antarctica.

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Speaker 1: And there is multiple um circumstantial evidence on this rock

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Speaker 1: that suggests that magnetic microbe inhabited this rock at some

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Speaker 1: point that maybe within you know, four and a half

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Speaker 1: billion years ago, there was microbial life on Mars and

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Speaker 1: we have evidence of it. There's a lot of people

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Speaker 1: out there who are are you know, very well versed

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Speaker 1: on this, who say it's still not proof of life.

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Speaker 1: There's it's still all just circumstantial evidence that, yeah, put

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Speaker 1: together is pretty convincing, but it's not convincing enough to say, yes,

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Speaker 1: there's life out there. But it's still up for debate,

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Speaker 1: even all these years later. So that that press conference

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Speaker 1: with the scientists who discovered it with skeptics who present

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Speaker 1: the opposite side, like that has actually been put into

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Speaker 1: practice before. But yes, I agree with you um finding

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Speaker 1: the UM like intelligent life elsewhere what are UM commonly

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Speaker 1: referred to as extraterrestrial intelligences or e t e s,

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Speaker 1: which sounds way smarter than just saying the aliens those

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Speaker 1: are that is that that's the money contact for sure,

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Speaker 1: right and you know, within that becomes the whole host

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Speaker 1: of UH issues And we're going to just kind of

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Speaker 1: talk about all those because there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: things that play here, you know, one is like, we

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Speaker 1: have no idea what that could look like. We have

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Speaker 1: no idea if you know, and we'll talk, you know,

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Speaker 1: all throughout this about different ways we might try and

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Speaker 1: communicate or pick up communication from them, but we have

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Speaker 1: no idea if that would even be possible, or if

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Speaker 1: they even have brains like we do that could process

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Speaker 1: any kind of communication like we do. So there's just

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Speaker 1: a lot of speculation when it comes to stuff like this. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and I think that some of it probably has been

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Speaker 1: informed by the movies a little bit, right, Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think it absolutely has been informed by not just movies,

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Speaker 1: but like the science fiction um genre of like books

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Speaker 1: and rom coms for sure, a little bit definitely maybe

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Speaker 1: in there, um but but yes, But the reason why

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Speaker 1: is because science fiction writers have like a really long

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Speaker 1: upstanding history of making fairly accurate predictions or figuring out um,

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Speaker 1: you know, paradoxes, weird solutions to issues that that you know,

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Speaker 1: normal scientists aren't necessarily thinking about, and they've contributed to

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Speaker 1: the field. So it makes sense that we would kind

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Speaker 1: of lean on science fiction to come up with some

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Speaker 1: of these are letta influence us too. Yeah, and you know,

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of smart people thinking about this stuff.

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Speaker 1: There's a gentleman named Jacob hawk Misra who works at

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Speaker 1: Penn State University, go Nitney lyons uh and it is

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Speaker 1: an astronomer there and said basically, and this is in

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Speaker 1: an interview with Life Science, said, you know what we

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Speaker 1: would probably do if we did spot some sort of

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Speaker 1: intelligent life is we would probably or we should probably

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Speaker 1: slow our role and just sort of watch them for

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Speaker 1: a while from a distance, try and gather information, learn

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Speaker 1: as much as we can, and then maybe at some

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Speaker 1: point before we even send humans, send out like a

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Speaker 1: robot or something. Right. So, what he's talking about, right,

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Speaker 1: what he's talking about bears a really strong resemblance to

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Speaker 1: a military document from the fifties that no one has

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Speaker 1: a copy of but has been written of um by

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Speaker 1: people who supposedly have read it before back in the day.

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Speaker 1: It's called seven Steps to Contact, and it was basically

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Speaker 1: that plan. You know, we we find something, we sit

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Speaker 1: and observe it from a distance, we get a little closer.

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Speaker 1: There is a procedure where we abduct a member of

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Speaker 1: that species or whatever if we can to like learn

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Speaker 1: what we can from him, and then we announce our

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Speaker 1: presence and then we try to communicate, right and um,

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Speaker 1: communicating using like a probe um or some sort of

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Speaker 1: like computer makes a lot of sense, but it leads

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Speaker 1: us to a important kind of rule of thumb in

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Speaker 1: this this um this field, and that is that if

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Speaker 1: we humans have come up with it, there's a really

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Speaker 1: good chance that an advanced civilization that we will come

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Speaker 1: in contact with has actually done it already. So if

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Speaker 1: we've decided that space probe is probably the best way

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Speaker 1: to contact people, that's probably what we should be looking

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Speaker 1: for because that's probably what they will actually do. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and this is where, you know, it's sort of a

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Speaker 1: it's sort of a heady thing to think about, but

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Speaker 1: the idea is that they would be an advanced, like

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Speaker 1: way more advanced civilization than we are. It's sort of

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Speaker 1: an assumption that if they contact us, or if we

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Speaker 1: can make contact with them, that they're way far ahead

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Speaker 1: of us in technology and that they have actually survived

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Speaker 1: uh beyond where we are now, which is uh technical

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Speaker 1: or technological adolescence. I mean, it seems like we've done

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Speaker 1: a lot, but you know, Lvia points out that we've

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Speaker 1: only been communicating you know, view radio via radio for

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Speaker 1: like a hundred years, so like we're super super young.

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Speaker 1: So the idea is that if there's something out there,

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Speaker 1: they're way more advanced, they've survived beyond that. They have

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Speaker 1: technology that is, uh, they have advanced that did not

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Speaker 1: end up killing them. So they survived what's called the

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Speaker 1: Great Filter, which we're not even I don't know how

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Speaker 1: you know better than I am. How close are we

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Speaker 1: to approaching that? Um, The predictions are within the next

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Speaker 1: hundred years, if we can serve out the next hundred years,

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Speaker 1: we might be okay of like advancing tech to the

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Speaker 1: point where tech then takes over and wipes us out. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So if we can survive that the great filter, um,

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Speaker 1: that means that will have such a mastery of technology

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Speaker 1: that we can defend ourselves from extinction in any form, natural,

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Speaker 1: self imposed, whatever. We'll just we'll have such a mastery

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Speaker 1: of technology that it can't wipe us out and we

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Speaker 1: can't be wiped out. And so the lifespan of the

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Speaker 1: humans could go on for billions of years. So if

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Speaker 1: we detect an advanced civilization, what they tell us, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: is that it's possible to make it through the Great Filter,

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Speaker 1: because we don't know if that's the case or not.

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Speaker 1: All the evidence we have is that we're the only

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Speaker 1: intelligent life in the universe, So that that raises the question,

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Speaker 1: are we the only intelligent life in the universe because

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Speaker 1: all other intelligent life has destroyed itself as it's tried

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Speaker 1: to go through the Great Filter? And if so, does

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Speaker 1: that mean we're about to destroy ourselves because we're about

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Speaker 1: to go through the Great Filter? Or or was it

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Speaker 1: already in the past? Was it was there some other

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Speaker 1: stage and evolution that we've already gone through. And so

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Speaker 1: if we come in contact with an advanced civilization, they

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Speaker 1: show us that the Great filters probably behind us, and

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Speaker 1: we have a long, happy, technologically advanced life ahead of

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Speaker 1: us for our species. Right, we should probably break but

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Speaker 1: before we do, uh, I do want to mention that

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Speaker 1: that same Jacob Hawk Misra also points out kind of

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Speaker 1: the obvious, but we do need to mention it that

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Speaker 1: they may are like this whole idea that we could

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Speaker 1: be out there watching them. Potentially they may already be

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Speaker 1: out there watching us and we just don't know about it,

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Speaker 1: and then we would be in a reactive mode rather

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Speaker 1: than a proactive mode. And it's just something to think about.

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Speaker 1: We're not like trying to say aliens, man, but uh,

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Speaker 1: just because we don't know what's out there yet, doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean that they don't know that we're out there. No,

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Speaker 1: And it's again, it's probably not aliens. If we're being observed,

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Speaker 1: it's probably a probe of some sort. And the spot

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Speaker 1: doujure that people are suggesting where it would be hiding

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Speaker 1: out as in a co orbital asteroid out in the

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Speaker 1: asteroid belt UM that has the same orbit as Earth

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Speaker 1: around the Sun but doesn't orbit Earth. UM. That would

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Speaker 1: provide a really great um hidden spot to to check

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Speaker 1: out Earth and kind of keep tabs on us because

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Speaker 1: he would be crazy enough to fly their spaceship into

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Speaker 1: an asteroid field. Well, what's what's really exciting is like

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Speaker 1: we'll probably be mining asteroids in like the next fifty years.

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Speaker 1: So if that's the case, we would find that probe

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Speaker 1: and possibly Han Solo. That's right, super old Han Solo

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Speaker 1: with a single diamond earring for some reason. All right,

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Speaker 1: let's take that break and we will come back and

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Speaker 1: talk about a topic that we previously covered. Set right

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Speaker 1: for this, all right, we have a whole episode on

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Speaker 1: CD the Search for extraterrestrial intelligence? Was that one at

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Speaker 1: comic Con? No, because UFO one comic book. I think

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Speaker 1: that's the when you're thinking of, that's what I'm thinking of.

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Speaker 1: Those are always fun, the comic cons that is. Uh,

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Speaker 1: they were always fun because we had a mix of

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Speaker 1: like stuff you should know listeners but also sort of

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Speaker 1: arms crossed nerds entertained me. Yeah, that ended up liking

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Speaker 1: what we did generally. Yeah, So I just have to say, now,

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Speaker 1: anytime I hear comic kind have you seen Love on

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Speaker 1: the Spectrum US? The new season of Love on the Spectrum?

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Speaker 1: I never saw the old edition. Oh you gotta see.

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Speaker 1: So there's a new one and there's one um, one

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Speaker 1: regular person. Um, I want to say character, but it's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, real life. So there's one person on it.

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Speaker 1: Her name is Danny and she's like super into animation

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Speaker 1: and it's just laser focused on finding a partner who

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Speaker 1: is equally into animation as she is, which is really

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Speaker 1: tough because she's really into but um. One of her

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Speaker 1: first questions in any one of the dates she goes

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Speaker 1: on is have you heard of comic Con? Or do

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Speaker 1: you feel you would ever want to go to comic Con?

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Speaker 1: Or something similar to that. It's really super cute. I

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Speaker 1: think you can say, cast member, I think that still

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Speaker 1: covers reality. Oh it does. Okay, yes, so one of

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Speaker 1: the cast members named Danny Yeah. Um, alright, So CT,

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Speaker 1: like I said, search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence. You can listen

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Speaker 1: to that full episode. Uh. There is a body, a

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Speaker 1: key body for CET called the International Academy of Arrow

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Astronautics. And they are non governmental and they

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Speaker 1: were founded in nineteen sixty and what they try to

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Speaker 1: do is bring together experts from all over the world. Uh.

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Speaker 1: I think there's seventy seven member countries at this point. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It is un recognize so it's not just you know,

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Speaker 1: a bunch of crackpots out there talking about aliens. And

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Speaker 1: they helped establish some protocols in the late eighties and

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Speaker 1: then updated them in um, just sort of some guidelines

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Speaker 1: about how to handle it if said he did find something. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and they're really kind of basic and boring even when

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Speaker 1: you stop and think you're talking about discovering and searching

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Speaker 1: for extraterrestrial intelligence. But it's it's good that they do this.

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Speaker 1: They provided a baseline so that if you're a scientist

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Speaker 1: working in this field. You know, Oh, I can't speak

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Speaker 1: to the press, or oh I haven't haven't really confirmed

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Speaker 1: this discovery, so I shouldn't announce it yet. Like there's

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Speaker 1: just really basic guidelines that I think if you are

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Speaker 1: in the grip of having discovered something like this, it

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Speaker 1: would be really helpful to be able to refer to him,

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Speaker 1: I think. Yeah, And I think what's promising about these

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Speaker 1: guidelines is they talk a lot about being honest and

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Speaker 1: open with the press, like you said, and working together

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Speaker 1: with people from all scientists from all over the world,

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Speaker 1: in forming task groups and not jumping the gun. And

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Speaker 1: like if you you know, in the movies, if you

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Speaker 1: get a um, you know, the computer screen pops up

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Speaker 1: an alien signal, Like the first thing you do is

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Speaker 1: type back an answer like they eight no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: don't type back any answer. Uh, you're not the guy

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Speaker 1: in the chair. Uh. What we need to do is

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Speaker 1: like take our time with this stuff and consult everybody,

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Speaker 1: including the u N on like best next steps. Right,

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Speaker 1: the guy in the chair who's big, sweaty bearded and

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Speaker 1: has a really affectionate relationship with the heroin who's actually

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Speaker 1: interested in the male lead. Yeah, you just describe me

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Speaker 1: right now, except that guy has on a shirt, right,

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Speaker 1: So you've got what you've got searching. You do it transparently.

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Speaker 1: You're supposed to communicate with the public and as we'll see. Um,

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Speaker 1: that's you know, if you think about it, if you

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Speaker 1: pay any kind of attention to science journalism, there's all

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Speaker 1: sorts of discussion and talk about searching the stars for

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Speaker 1: extraterrestrial intelligence these days, and that is part of this,

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Speaker 1: this this protocol, like keep the public informed, tell them

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Speaker 1: everything you're doing, tell him what you're finding, and then

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Speaker 1: later on, as we'll see, tell them how excited they

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Speaker 1: should be about that. Well, yeah, I mean, I guess

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Speaker 1: we should talk about that. They actually have a scale

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Speaker 1: that they've developed to gauge how excited the general public

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Speaker 1: would be about finding something out. And it's called the

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Speaker 1: Rio scale, uh. And it was um proposed by astronomers

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Speaker 1: Yvonne Almar of Hungary and Jill Tarter of the United

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Speaker 1: States and two thousand and it's kind of funny. It's

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Speaker 1: based off the or at least modeled on, the Torino scale,

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Speaker 1: which is a scale of like, uh, the effects of

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Speaker 1: an asteroid hitting the Earth. But it's how excited would

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Speaker 1: the public be? And what's funny about it? It's a

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Speaker 1: zero to ten. And one of the examples that Livia

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Speaker 1: gives is, all, right, let's say they found a like

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Speaker 1: a pretty full proof report that they found of a

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Speaker 1: signal from intelligent or potentially intelligent life, but they found

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Speaker 1: it in the archives, like, hey, we dug this up

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Speaker 1: from two thousand two and it's confirmed and it was

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Speaker 1: a signal of alien life trying to speak to us.

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Speaker 1: That ranks a two out of ten. Right, it's a

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Speaker 1: when in two is um is nominally low importance. I

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Speaker 1: just think that's so telling of people in there, like

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Speaker 1: having to be so in the moment, like when did

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Speaker 1: this happen? Okay, yawn right right. So so it's not

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Speaker 1: just like how excited the public will be, it's also

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Speaker 1: how excited you should tell the public to be, like

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Speaker 1: how important refinding this is? Right? So you would turn

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Speaker 1: around and it's still it strikes me as really weird too, that, hey,

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Speaker 1: we found a beacon that we've confirmed is from an

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Speaker 1: intelligent life outside of our galaxy, but it's not that important.

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Speaker 1: That's weird. The while signal wasn't the Whatev's signal like

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Speaker 1: they were excited about it. They included an exclamation point

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Speaker 1: I should point out though, that same signal if they

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Speaker 1: found that like right now tomorrow, they said that would

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Speaker 1: rank as seven out of and so it would be

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Speaker 1: news year. I guess right, So seven is high importance

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Speaker 1: and then ten is oh my gosh, oh man, oh geez. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that level of importance. Yeah, well, which is potentially

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Speaker 1: like panic level, right, it is because basically you've got

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Speaker 1: a um, you essentially have contact, is what a ten

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Speaker 1: would be, or a signal that is coming to us

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Speaker 1: from our solar system that we can like study. It's

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Speaker 1: it's all about how credible and reliable it is. And

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Speaker 1: the first RIO scale that was introduced in two thousand

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Speaker 1: I think you said, um, that was updated here there,

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Speaker 1: I think in two thousand three, and then in two thousand,

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Speaker 1: um eighteen, I believe there was an update to it,

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Speaker 1: so so much so that they call it RIO two

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Speaker 1: point oh. It was led by Duncan Forgan of the

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Speaker 1: Center for ex Planet Science at the University of St.

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Speaker 1: Andrew in Scotland. Go Scotland. Go uh, Golfers. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: it's the University of Senn Drew. UM and so he

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Speaker 1: and the company updated the Rio scale to make it

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Speaker 1: even more robust. And again it all comes down to

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Speaker 1: how credible is this information? Right? Like, how how credible

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Speaker 1: is this discovery? Can we study it? Um? What do

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Speaker 1: other scientists in the field think about it? And you

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Speaker 1: put all this together and then you say, actually, this

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Speaker 1: is low importance, this is high importance. This is as

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Speaker 1: important as it comes. And then you tell the public

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Speaker 1: we found something and the importance of it is as

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Speaker 1: important as it comes, or it's not that important, which

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Speaker 1: would be a tin which is she dances on the sand.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what that means, but I like the

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Speaker 1: sound of it. Chucked all right? Should I point it out?

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Speaker 1: Or should I let you just discover it later? Or

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Speaker 1: never at all? I think maybe someone will email and tell,

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Speaker 1: you know, point it out. I hate it when people

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Speaker 1: email this hony stuff that I missed. It was a

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Speaker 1: dad joke, an eighties uh kid of the eighties dad joke. Okay,

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Speaker 1: all right, I'm nothing, I've got maybe um Mr Mr No,

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Speaker 1: you're close. It's the Rio scale. She dances on the

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Speaker 1: same Yeah, that's great. I can't believe it. All right,

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Speaker 1: it was great. It's a great song. It is biproxy great.

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Speaker 1: Should we talk about SETA. Yeah, just one more thing

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Speaker 1: before we pass on from the Rio scale. Like one

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Speaker 1: of the important things is the reason why the scale

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Speaker 1: is so varied from like low importance to she dances

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Speaker 1: on the sand importance is Um, you're supposed to communicate

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Speaker 1: this to the public. If it's low importance, that doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean don't bother. It means go tell the public we

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Speaker 1: found this. But it's actually not that big of a deal.

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Speaker 1: It's it's instructing astronomers how to present this to the public.

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Speaker 1: You know, how excited you should tell them to be,

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Speaker 1: how important it is. Yeah. And then also before we

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Speaker 1: go on to SETA, once you actually have a detection,

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Speaker 1: there's that Setti Permanent Committee from the I A. A.

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Speaker 1: They have protocols for for when you do actually confirm

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Speaker 1: you have detected an alien signal or presence somehow set up. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And so if they're if they're broadcasting on the electromagnetic band,

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Speaker 1: which we are out there looking for, um, so hopefully

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Speaker 1: that's what they're using, UM, that band would be protected.

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Speaker 1: Everybody else would get kicked off of that band, and

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Speaker 1: then that band would be studied as intensively as an

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Speaker 1: electromagnetic band has ever been studied in the history of humanity.

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Speaker 1: I love that. And then lastly, chuck um, there's a

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Speaker 1: there's a protocol not to respond. Again, you're the guy

402
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Speaker 1: in the chair, Like you said, you don't get to respond,

403
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Speaker 1: but so neither do the astronomers. Neither do like the

404
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 1: I A A like. It's meant to become an international

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Speaker 1: global discussion on how humanity should reply to this, and

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Speaker 1: that's based on the idea that how we reply is

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Speaker 1: going to have a really big impact on how the

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Speaker 1: conversation goes. Um from that point on, Well, yeah, because

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Speaker 1: what we don't know. And one of the things that uh,

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Speaker 1: I think would be the most pins and needles sort

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Speaker 1: of thing to find out is whether these E T

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Speaker 1: I s are what they call selfish or whether they're universalists.

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Speaker 1: So are they here to help us and say, you know,

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Speaker 1: we have all this great technology, then we can help

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Speaker 1: you out. By the way, we have a cure for cancer.

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Speaker 1: You might be looking for that. Or are they uh, well,

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Speaker 1: I guess that would be the universalist or are they selfish?

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Speaker 1: And are they here to conquer us? And there was

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Speaker 1: a researcher that you dug up that pointed out something

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Speaker 1: kind of key, which is sure, we wonder if they're

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Speaker 1: selfish or universalists, but I don't know if anyone's noticed.

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Speaker 1: Everything we talk about is how it benefits or uh

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Speaker 1: is bad for us. So we are definitely on the

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Speaker 1: selfish side because nobody at all is talking about how

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Speaker 1: we might be able to possibly help them. Right, And

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Speaker 1: it sounds pretty goofy and childish to say, like, you know,

427
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 1: they want to conquer us or whatever, but there's actually

428
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:13,400
Speaker 1: like legitimate reasons and alien intelligence would want a conquress.

429
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 1: They might want our resources to exploit for their own uses.

430
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:21,159
Speaker 1: That's a big deal. Um. They may also basically have

431
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: a their own protocol where anytime they meet intelligent life

432
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 1: they snuff it out because they don't want any potential

433
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 1: future rivals to come along, and it's not worth their

434
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 1: while to investigate that life further to see if it

435
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: ever would be arrival, so they just wipe it out

436
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: wherever they encounter it. So, yes, it sounds childish at first,

437
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 1: but when you start to think about it becomes a

438
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 1: little eye popping because they there there are universal you

439
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 1: would you would expect universal reasons for them to harm us,

440
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 1: and they're predicated on the idea that natural selection is

441
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 1: a universal phenomenon, that that that all life, or more

442
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: to the point, no life just comes fully formed into

443
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: being out of nowhere. It progresses from other forms of

444
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,880
Speaker 1: life and develops along the way, and so you can

445
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: it makes sense that it would it would happen elsewhere

446
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 1: in the universe. And if that's the case, then yeah,

447
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 1: you can make a really good case, um that there

448
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: are that they're destructive intelligences out there that um just

449
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 1: wipe out competition and rivalry arrival or Yeah. The other

450
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 1: option too, though, is that's hanging out there, is they

451
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 1: may have initially been uh selfless or universalist or benevolent,

452
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:42,239
Speaker 1: and then they either accidentally infect us somehow. I mean,

453
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: we've seen that if you look to our own past

454
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: of when you know, conquering colonialists invaded foreign lands and

455
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: brought their disease with them. I mean, it's not a

456
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 1: far stretch to think that could happen, you know, on

457
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,400
Speaker 1: an interplanetary or I guess, uh, I'm well sure interplanetary

458
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 1: level or that doesn't happen and they come here and

459
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: they want to help us out, but then they study

460
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 1: us for a while and hang out, and they're like,

461
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,640
Speaker 1: you people are awful if either they undermine us some

462
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 1: way by accident or on purpose, or then they decide

463
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: to wipe us out right because they place a higher

464
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 1: value on, you know, life in general. And they're like,

465
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: these guys are actually a threat to life in general.

466
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: So maybe if they're utilitarians, it would make sense for

467
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: them to eliminate us to save more life, you know,

468
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: because again, like if you let's say we actually did

469
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: encounter an advanced civilization, their perspective is much different than ours.

470
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: We have no idea how long humans will be around,

471
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 1: and frankly, those of us living today in the century

472
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: probably have a a shorter idea of what the human

473
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: lifespan is than people in the past, it, right, So

474
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: they're coming at it like these guys might be around forever,

475
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 1: and my who knows how technologically advanced they could become.

476
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: So they could see it as like beneficial to the

477
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: greater good by getting rid of us now, like like

478
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 1: going back and strangling Hitler in his crib when he

479
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 1: was a baby or something like that. That would be

480
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 1: their opportunity to do that, because we would be utterly

481
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: defenseless against the civilization that was so advanced it could

482
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: come visit us. We can send probes. But baby Hitler

483
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,479
Speaker 1: is the human race exactly in this case, which is

484
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: really sad. But yeah, right, let's just move on to

485
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 1: seta which we were gonna do minutes ago. But I

486
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 1: told you this would be free wheeling, everybody, it was

487
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 1: so free wheeling. I have one other thing. Do you

488
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: really go ahead? I have two other things. Actually, So

489
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: there's we actually have um legitimate reason to believe that

490
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: that they wouldn't be a conquering type because number one,

491
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:52,479
Speaker 1: they're very long lived. That's our assumption, right, And if

492
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: they're very long lived, they're probably a cooperative society. Because

493
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 1: non cooperative societies fight amongst themselves and can end up

494
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: wiping themselves out. They're much likelier too. So if we

495
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: encounter an advanced civilization that has very very long lived,

496
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: has been around for millions or billions of years as

497
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 1: a species, um, they probably are super peaceful because they

498
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: learned along the way and maybe even evolved along the

499
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 1: way to cooperate. So it would be more likely that

500
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: they would be those universalists that we met. Okay, And

501
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 1: then there's one other example of life here on Earth

502
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 1: where there was like positive contact, not necessarily between societies,

503
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: but between an encoded version of a society and a

504
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: new society. And that was when the Spanish Moors of

505
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: the twelfth century discovered lost Greek knowledge and they turned

506
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: around and introduced it to Europe, and it brought Europe

507
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: out of the medieval or Dark Ages into the Renaissance.

508
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: It was triggered just by this knowledge that had been lost.

509
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: So you can imagine that if we were suddenly bestowed

510
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: with a tremendous amount of new knowledge, who knows where

511
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: we could go with them? Well, yeah, And that brings

512
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: up a point, which is, um if we're talking about

513
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 1: what might happen if a super advanced civilization got in

514
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: touch with us, and you want to do that brain experiment,

515
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: one way to sort of go about that might be

516
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: to look back at our past and say, well, what's

517
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: happened in the history of humanity when the equivalent of

518
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: that has happened, which is like, let's say, uh, more

519
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: like advanced and it might as well have been aliens

520
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: contacting humans, but a much more advanced European nation like

521
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: going into a primitive tribe and you know, deepen the Amazon,

522
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: and the answer isn't pretty if you don't know anything

523
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: about world history. So if you want to look to

524
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: the past of how humans have uh kind of operated

525
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 1: when they're the advanced civilization, maybe a little humility going

526
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: forward and what might happen to us is in order,

527
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 1: you know, right for sure, And we'll talk about societal impacts.

528
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 1: But that really kind of um shifts a little light

529
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 1: on that foreshadows that at least that like whether we

530
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: wanted to feel humbled or not, we probably would if

531
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: we encountered an advanced civilization. All right, I think we

532
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: beat around the bush so far that we can actually

533
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: take a break, okay, and then talk about set us

534
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: at a port. Set is just sitting out there. It's

535
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 1: a fun bush to beat though, isn't it. It really is.

536
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: I like this kind of stuff. All right, We'll be

537
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 1: right back with SETA, I promise, okay, chuck um SETA.

538
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: I got a few more points to make. So if

539
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 1: SETI is the search for extraterrestrial intelligence, set UH is

540
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: the search for extraterrestrial artifacts. Because again, there's a lot

541
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 1: of people out there who say the best way to

542
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: explore the universe is through machine that we deploy and

543
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,479
Speaker 1: then send back information and maybe you're so advanced that

544
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: they can actually serve as ambassadors for the civilization. Right,

545
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: So not only maybe that should be our way forward

546
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: for us, but with SETA, it's a search for extraterrestrial artifacts.

547
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: Is maybe we should also really really keep an eye out,

548
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: not just because typically we've been listening for things and

549
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: they said maybe we should also be looking for evidence

550
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: of a probe. Um as far as us doing it,

551
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: there's are some benefits. One is uh that maybe it

552
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 1: would uh that they wouldn't know where we're coming from,

553
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 1: Like we're not literally sending out a beacon from where

554
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: we are just in case they are dangerous. So if

555
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: they found our probe, unless it was stamped made in

556
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: the USA, which it probably would be with the map Dallas, Texas, Uh,

557
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: that they wouldn't know where we are. So there is

558
00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 1: potential benefit there. But um, I think Seta's entry saying

559
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: the idea that we should be looking for stuff out there,

560
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: maybe in those asteroid fields. Yeah. So back in the

561
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: mid eighties, a couple of steady researchers, Robert Frieda's Jr.

562
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: And Francisco Valdi's or valds um. They basically said, there's

563
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: we can conceive of three different classes of artifacts that

564
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: you could that that like an intelligence, an extra terrestrial

565
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: intelligence might send out UM. And they weren't talking about like,

566
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: you know, this this kind of von Newman probe or

567
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: something like that. They were saying, like, as far as

568
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: detection goes, it would be put into into three categories.

569
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 1: The first one is ones that actively seek out other intelligences,

570
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: the second one is ones that avoid detection, and then

571
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: the third one are ones where the extraterrestrial intelligence is

572
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 1: indifferent to whether we find it or not. And after

573
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: examining it, they said, we should be looking exclusively for

574
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 1: class three artifacts X because class one UM we would

575
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: have detected already because they would have come and found

576
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 1: us if they were seeking attention. And then class two

577
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 1: we're never going to find because this is an advanced civilization.

578
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:16,359
Speaker 1: So we would just guess that they would be able

579
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 1: to keep us from knowing that that we were being watched. Yeah,

580
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: like maybe they have just you know, figured out invisibility.

581
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: Something's basically that sure, Yeah, so we should look for

582
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 1: the ones where they're like who cares if they find

583
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 1: this old space junk, right, and that's actually what um

584
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: umuamuah is thought to be by at least one astronomer.

585
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: You know about that excuse you, Mua? Was that the

586
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 1: guy uh that's working on the Galileo project? Now Lobe? Yeah,

587
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 1: av Lobe al right, well, yeah, to talk about Mua,

588
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: then we'll talk to about the Galileo project. I think okay,

589
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: So muamua um means I think like visitor um and

590
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,439
Speaker 1: it was owned in two thousand seventeen. We're not quite

591
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 1: sure what it is. It's probably a hunk of a planet.

592
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 1: But the one thing everybody agrees on it's not from

593
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 1: our Solar system. It's from another star system because it

594
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:15,760
Speaker 1: doesn't move like anything in our star system does UM.

595
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: But it's supposedly has been observed exhibiting um gravitational acceleration

596
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: non gravitational acceleration, meaning it's accelerating faster than gravity would

597
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: would suggest it would on its own right, which means

598
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: like it might be propelled by something, which is crazy

599
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: to think about. And that av Lobe we were talking

600
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: about is a Harvard astronomer and came out and was

601
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:44,879
Speaker 1: one of the only people that came out and says,

602
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 1: you know, straight up, I think this is alien technology.

603
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 1: And so abb Lobe is who launched the Galileo Project

604
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: in one which is the only sort of active set

605
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: a thing that we have going right now, and right

606
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: now they are. There was the Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon Report

607
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: last year from the U s Office of the Director

608
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 1: of National Intelligence, and that's basically I mean, they were

609
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: meeting about that even just recently, you know, the government,

610
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,839
Speaker 1: the US government that is finally saying like, all right,

611
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 1: we don't need to be like, uh, embarrassed about talking

612
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: about this stuff. There are things that we've seen that

613
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 1: we can identify. They are unidentified flying objects that like

614
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: our military has seen, like our best pilots are reporting about,

615
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: so we should start talking about this. And part of

616
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 1: that was this report, the Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon Report in

617
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,359
Speaker 1: the Galileo project is sort of combing through that also

618
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: has some telescopes going now watching for objects. Uh. I'm

619
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: not sure like how vast that is at this point,

620
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,359
Speaker 1: but it's just launched a year ago, so I'm sure

621
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 1: they're getting going. Yeah, And we should say av Lobe

622
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 1: is viewed um alternatively as a genius or a maverick

623
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 1: or rogue or crack pot. But he does have, you know,

624
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 1: legitimate bona fides. He's not one of those guys. He's like,

625
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: you know, um, he parks his camper on the campus

626
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 1: of Harvard, So he's a Harvard astronomer. Like he's a

627
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: legitimate He was the head of the astronomy department for

628
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:18,720
Speaker 1: quite a while, I believe, so. Um. Yeah, he thinks

629
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:23,439
Speaker 1: from what I read, that UMA is billions of year

630
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 1: old defunct alien probe that no longer works or operates

631
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 1: and just happened to stumble into our solar system for

632
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 1: us to find accidentally. What does it look like? You?

633
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 1: I didn't even look it up. I should have. It

634
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 1: looks like a kind of cigars shaped. Um. It's apparently

635
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 1: between three hundred and three thousand feet long, um, and

636
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: a hundred and fifteen and five hundred forty eight feet thick.

637
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: I'm looking at it now. You're generous with the cigar.

638
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 1: It looks like a joint. Okay, straight up. Yeah, it

639
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 1: looks like a spliff, it does. Um. So yeah, it

640
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 1: looks like an alien spliff is probably what it is.

641
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 1: Maybe they're sending us a message. I've never used the

642
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: word spliff before in my life until just now. Yeah,

643
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 1: I don't say that word either for us. I think, oh,

644
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: is that hip? It didn't used to be. Oh, I

645
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: don't know. I think it was. I think it was

646
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: European maybe at first, right, didn't used to be Yeah,

647
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 1: I don't know. We we are so in cool. I

648
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: have no idea, So, Chuck, if we run into somebody,

649
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 1: or somebody finds us, or we just detect life and

650
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: are figure out a way to communicate with it, um,

651
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 1: we're gonna immediately hit a wall because the idea that

652
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: will be able to communicate with an extraterrestrial intelligence presumes

653
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: a lot of factors and variables that would have to

654
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 1: be in place that may or may not and if

655
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 1: you take one or two of them out, we're totally

656
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 1: up the creek as far as communicating goes. Yeah, that's

657
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 1: why I always loved close Encounters of the third kind,

658
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 1: because even as a kid, I remember thinking how cool

659
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 1: it was that they didn't just like hold up a

660
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: sign that said hey, how are you, and that they

661
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 1: used uh, and that they used you know, the doo

662
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 1: doo doo doo doo and the lights. I just I

663
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 1: thought that was kind of cool because that is, you know,

664
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 1: we don't know if they even have the same senses

665
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 1: that we have as far as hearing something or seeing something. Uh.

666
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 1: There was there is a book that someone put out

667
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: a German mathematician name Hans Freudenthal, called lynkos l I

668
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,359
Speaker 1: n c O S colon Design of a Language for

669
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:54,360
Speaker 1: Cosmic intercourse and by that he means speaking to one another.

670
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 1: I think, uh, and this it's kind of funny. Libya

671
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: included a quote from an astrophysics just that said, it's

672
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: the most boring book I've ever read. Logarhythm tables are

673
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 1: cool compared to it. Uh, And it sounds like it's

674
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 1: not anything you'd want to read, but it is. Link

675
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 1: HOS is this radio wave language that this guy came

676
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: up with that basically conveys symbols from math and science

677
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 1: from Latin uh, symbolic logic. And it starts very fundamental

678
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: and then gets like these are numbers and they're conveyed

679
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: to you through pulses, and then it gets a little

680
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: more advanced as as it goes. Uh. Not to say

681
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: that link os is like everyone's like, oh, we should

682
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 1: just use link os, but it is to say that

683
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 1: very very smart people have thought about like how do

684
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: we even think about think about communicating with these things? So,

685
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 1: from what I can tell, like you could use linkos,

686
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 1: it would be something that we could try to use.

687
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,919
Speaker 1: It's that it's like that established, you know, and um,

688
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 1: that book actually kicked off a field of study that's

689
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,240
Speaker 1: still around today and I think just kind of getting

690
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 1: going called zeno linguistics, which is basically the idea of

691
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 1: how do you speak to a culture that you you

692
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 1: don't share anything in common with? Potentially, Yeah, because if

693
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:17,839
Speaker 1: we talk to an extra trust real intelligence, it will

694
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 1: be unlike talking to anything that we've ever tried to

695
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: talk to before, including non human animals, because non human

696
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:28,399
Speaker 1: animals have shared a lot of the same experiences that

697
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 1: we have here on Earth. I saw it pointed out

698
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 1: in one paper humans share fifty of our DNA with

699
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 1: a carrot. Right, these intelligence we would have basically nothing

700
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,439
Speaker 1: in common with no shared experiences, and like you said,

701
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 1: we might not even have the same senses. And so

702
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 1: when you start to see like what's stacked up against us,

703
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 1: Like what if they don't communicate using their eyes or

704
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 1: their mouths or sound, and they they use magnets instead

705
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: or magnetism, we would it would be totally lost on us.

706
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 1: We might not even sense it in any way, shape

707
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 1: or form, and even if we did, we wouldn't know

708
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,720
Speaker 1: how to put it into whatever thought they were trying

709
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 1: to convey. Yeah, I mean there are very smart people. Uh,

710
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 1: there's a gentleman named John Billingham who is a leader

711
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: in that field in US social psychologist name Roger Haynes,

712
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 1: who have worked a lot with historians, historians and scientists

713
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 1: and psychologists about how to do this and the repercussions.

714
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 1: But there are people like Bellingham that have said, hey,

715
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 1: this is likely impossible, Like we should think about these scenarios,

716
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 1: but we should all prepare ourselves for the fact that

717
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:38,839
Speaker 1: we just may not be able to communicate with them

718
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 1: at all ever, right, and even if we do, um,

719
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 1: we would be communicating with them on intergalactic distances, which

720
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 1: is Carl Sagan put out, like, even if we're if

721
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 1: we communicate with somebody fifty light years away, which is

722
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: pretty close considering how big the universe is, um our

723
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:03,800
Speaker 1: conversation back and forth would still take a hundred earth years.

724
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,720
Speaker 1: So not only would we have to gather everybody together

725
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 1: to come up to some consensus on what we're going

726
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:13,839
Speaker 1: to say. We would have to keep that that consensus

727
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 1: and that level of coordination and cooperation going over multiple

728
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 1: generations just to have one back and forth. Yeah, Like,

729
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: people are working on this and they know that their

730
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 1: great granddaughter is going to follow through on it or

731
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 1: the hope. The hope is that they will, right, which

732
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 1: is kind of cool if you think about it. It

733
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 1: is something that could really bring humanity together. It could

734
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 1: also be just another thing that divides us further, because

735
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 1: I mean we once the last time we came to

736
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 1: a global consensus on anything, you know, have we ever? Yeah?

737
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 1: I mean yeah. Uh. It is an interesting thought experiment

738
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 1: though to think about. And these are the things that

739
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 1: these groups of people that John Billingham and Rogerhans get

740
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 1: together and they talk about this stuff. Is to explore

741
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 1: the idea of like is there like one of some

742
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 1: of the first things that we should want to find

743
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 1: out is is there a universal set of ethics or morals?

744
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 1: Do they believe in something like a god like we do? Um?

745
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 1: Did they evolved at all? Are they? Uh? Do they

746
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 1: only look at things as like predators in prey? Like

747
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,800
Speaker 1: are we screwed to begin with, UM, would they mirror

748
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 1: us at all? So it's all really really heavy and interesting,

749
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 1: I think, And I just think it's cool that people

750
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 1: are out there thinking of this stuff. Yeah, and and

751
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 1: there are people thinking of it for sure, but UM

752
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 1: probably not enough. And in group of researchers got together,

753
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 1: led by Katherine Denning and Stephen dick Um, and they

754
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 1: created a white paper that was signed by NASA researchers,

755
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 1: CET members, other experts UM who basically said, Hey, we

756
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,359
Speaker 1: need to be throwing a lot more funding at it,

757
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 1: we need to be doing a lot more research, and

758
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 1: this is important. And they they cited the World Economic

759
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 1: Forum back in two thousand teen. Every year the World

760
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 1: Economic Form puts out of Global Risks paper and in

761
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 1: two thousand thirteen they included a list of X factors,

762
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 1: which are possibilities in the not too distant future that

763
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 1: could happen to humanity that we just couldn't possibly predict for,

764
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 1: especially because we're not doing anything to try to predict.

765
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:24,840
Speaker 1: And one of those X factors was UM being contacted

766
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 1: or discovering life off of Earth. Yeah, I would say

767
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 1: that's pretty high on the list. You know. The other ones. Yeah,

768
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 1: runaway climate change, um uh, profound cognitive enhancement, like I

769
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:47,240
Speaker 1: had them tattooed on my forearm in Elfish um robe

770
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 1: geo engineering projects that that could be a problem because

771
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 1: there's actually like rich people thinking about doing stuff like that,

772
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 1: and then the cost of living longer, which I thought

773
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 1: I found fascinating, But it's true, like we can barely

774
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 1: support human through age eighty now, socially speaking, how are

775
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,839
Speaker 1: we going to support people if that the life expectancy

776
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 1: doubles in the next fifty years. Yeah, it's a good quay.

777
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 1: I gotta say. If you're probably um too shy to

778
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:18,720
Speaker 1: plug your own show, but if this kind of stuff

779
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 1: interests you, guys, you should definitely if you haven't already

780
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 1: listened to the End of the World with Josh Clark,

781
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 1: your ten part series Tin right, yeah, Tin, thank you.

782
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 1: It's great and it's very hetty and smart and thought provoking.

783
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:38,839
Speaker 1: So um, I'm plugging it. That is very nice, Thank you, Chuck.

784
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 1: I pretty sure it lives on. It's still there. It is.

785
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 1: It's still there to to go be listened to if

786
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 1: you want to listen to it for free wherever you

787
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 1: get podcasts. It's not old news. It's free. Yeah, no,

788
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 1: it's definitely still out there because the world hasn't ended yet.

789
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 1: That's what I always say. Somebody should jump on that

790
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 1: and do a limited series documentary on it. I've talked

791
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 1: to a couple of people about it, and it just

792
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 1: hasn't ever quite worked or worked out, So it's it's

793
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 1: still I'm still open to the idea for sure. Well,

794
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 1: that just goes to show how hard it is to

795
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 1: get any TV project off the ground, which you know, really,

796
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 1: but if anyone out there is does that kind of stuff,

797
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:17,439
Speaker 1: you should get in touch with Josh and man, Chuck,

798
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 1: I owe you a fiver at least for this. Well,

799
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 1: just don't quit the show if that happens, and we're

800
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 1: all good, I definitely won't this This is where my

801
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:28,959
Speaker 1: heart is, man good work wise, Yeah, sure I didn't

802
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 1: have to pull that out, but sure you got Well.

803
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 1: I didn't want anybody think I was like a total

804
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 1: weirdo loser, you know, right, he loves work Lengthinge's Yeah.

805
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: Usually home is where the heart is, Josh, Right, you

806
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 1: got your priorities mixed up? You got anything else? Nothing else?

807
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 1: All right? Everybody? Well, since Chuck said nothing else and

808
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 1: plugged the end of the world with Josh Clark quite nicely. Uh.

809
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 1: That means it's time for a listener mail. That's right. Uh,

810
00:47:56,320 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 1: And there's nothing like a nice, intelligent, heady discussion um,

811
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:05,319
Speaker 1: followed by pedantic you said the wrong words email. So

812
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 1: this is a This is a nice guy. Though I

813
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 1: like Danny. Hey guys, a long time listener is he

814
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 1: was very squeamish about even mentioning these things. I'm a

815
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 1: longtime listener. I love it everything you guys do, and

816
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 1: I hate that I am giving into pedantry. But the

817
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 1: amazing Free Press episode was all I could take. Naturally,

818
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 1: with that topic, I believe Chuck said people's voices were

819
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:29,359
Speaker 1: being squashed. I hate to say it, Chuck. The word

820
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 1: is quashed. And the reason I hate to say it

821
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 1: is it squashed is a much more fun word to say.

822
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: I'll probably still say squashed because I just like saying it.

823
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 1: You're not off the hook, though, either, my friend. Uh,

824
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 1: while I'm on it, so sorry, I have to get

825
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 1: it off my chest that it bugs me when Josh

826
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:51,959
Speaker 1: says to look up contemporary articles about a topic, meaning

827
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 1: from the topics time period. This is an amazing insight.

828
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:59,359
Speaker 1: But the word he's looking for is contemporaneous. Contemporary will

829
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:03,319
Speaker 1: always mean articles from right now. Contemporaneous means from the

830
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:06,440
Speaker 1: same time as that topic. Can't you see Danny like

831
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 1: at his computer and his hands are shaking because he's

832
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 1: using all his might to stop himself. He's like, can't

833
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: just correcting? I think that was the deal, he says.

834
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 1: Please don't roast me for being a pedant. You guys

835
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: are a true inspiration. I wouldn't say anything about it

836
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 1: if I thought it would offend you, and know how

837
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 1: graceful you are about such things. So Danny really set

838
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 1: us up where we had really did. Let's be nice. Yeah,

839
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:32,320
Speaker 1: good email, Danny, thanks for sending it. It was And Danny,

840
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 1: if I start using contemporaneous in reference to articles from

841
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 1: a certain time, it's because of you, that's right, And

842
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 1: we as evidence that we didn't squash your voice. We

843
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: are open to criticism. That's very good. Check. If you

844
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 1: want to be like Danny, just don't just send us

845
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,359
Speaker 1: an email about something else. You can wrap it up,

846
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 1: spank it on the bottom, and send it off to

847
00:49:54,200 --> 00:50:00,120
Speaker 1: Stuff podcast at I heart radio dot com. Stuff you

848
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 1: should know is a production of i heart Radio. For

849
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 1: more podcasts My heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app,

850
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:08,800
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.