WEBVTT - On the Eve Of... 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.080 We're excited to share episode one of the new season 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:05.800 with you, but we're even more excited to tell you 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:09.000 that you can actually listen to this episode completely ad 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:14.880 free with iHeart True Crime Plus, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Plus, 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:18.439 you'll get instant access to episode two, as well, a 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.880 whole week ahead of everyone else, and never before heard 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:25.880 bonus episode that is only available to subscribers. So head 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:29.840 to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeart True Crime Plus and 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:34.720 subscribe today. The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:39.000 been recording themselves to make a new documentary. Were the 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:44.200 news reporters because one year ago a mass shooting changed 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:46.840 their lives. He just walked around shot all the black people. 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:49.760 The cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:52.639 figure out how to go on and how to compete. 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:55.440 I wanted the one for them more than anything this season. 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:59.680 Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:04.120 app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:07.560 and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girl Friends. It's 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:11.240 Las Vegas, it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:15.440 to find a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:19.400 were felt to be eligible bachelors. One of them was 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:23.600 of the spot Baronmout. On paper, he was perfect, but 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:27.720 in reality, this guy's a wacko. He shouted into the 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:31.080 point she went unconscious. I would call him and I 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:33.840 would say, I know you killed my sister. You can 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:38.120 listen to the Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:42.399 or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm will daily. For years, 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:44.520 I've been on the road playing shows and seeing America 0:01:44.600 --> 0:01:47.640 through live music. This summer, I'll hit the stage. Season 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:51.240 two of Sound of Our Town ten cities twelve episodes 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:54.640 every other Thursday, we explore the live music venues and 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:57.280 culture of a new American city. With each new episode, 0:01:57.640 --> 0:01:59.720 our tour continues into the kind of venues you want 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:02.920 to get to when you land in Detroit, Providence, Denver, 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:05.840 or Seattle. Listen to Sound of Our Town on the 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:10.320 iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:16.240 The number one true crime podcast is back. The bodies 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:19.440 of eight family members were discovered in Pike County, Ohio. 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:23.680 Season four of The Pikes and Massacre. The trials begin, 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:28.320 So let's talk about the crime scenes. Accused murderer George 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:32.800 Wagner faces a judge and jury. This is legitimately the 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:35.680 biggest murder trial in the state of Ohio's history. They're 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:38.400 going to be some surprises in this trial. His mother 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:42.040 and youngest brother are said to testify against him. It 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:47.040 is extremely rare for family to testify against family. Will 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:50.200 he face the death penalty they killed the mother of 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:52.880 the girl they were trying to get custody up or 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:55.920 will he walk free? I think the defense knows something 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:59.040 that we don't know. We're there tracking the case in 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:01.840 real time. I don't think I've ever seen photos that 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:05.280 graphic before. Joined the nearly thirty million listeners as the 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:09.519 mystery unfolds. When a juror sees a human bodies and 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:19.880 ripped shreds, they want their pound flesh. This is the 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:25.320 piped and Massacre Childs begin Season four, episode one, on 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:29.280 the eve of I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:33.440 KAT Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane. After following 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:36.880 this case for years, trials are officially beginning in Ohio's 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:41.240 largest criminal investigation in the state's history. It's been more 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:43.840 than six years since the events of April twenty first, 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:47.000 twenty sixteen, when eight family members were shot dead in 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:51.240 the middle of the night, some were sleeping and others. 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:56.000 Based on crime scene evidence, their final moments are unimaginable. 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:01.680 It's important to note that George Wagner, the fourth currently 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:05.760 on trial, and his father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:10.560 have pleaded not guilty to all charges. Prosecutors say the 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:13.840 Wagner family planned the killing for months. I don't know 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:17.599 that people can fully fathom what went on in those 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:21.600 mobile homes. But when the full force of that hits 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:23.839 the most important people in the room, which are going 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:28.719 to be those jurors, it's going to reverberate. Two and 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:31.359 a half years later, four members of a prominent local 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:34.560 family who knew the victims very well, were arrested in 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:41.200 charge with capital murder. This was planned and plotted four 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:46.640 different homes where these family members were slaughtered, absolutely slaughtered. 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:51.920 And for this family, God, and when this happened, think 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:56.040 about this shock and confusion. Who takes out a whole 0:04:56.160 --> 0:05:03.680 family and why would you do that? Matriarch Angela Wagner, 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:06.960 her husband Billy, and their two sons in their early twenties, 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:11.440 Jake and George were the arrested parties. Since then, Angela 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:14.400 Wagner and her youngest son Jake have taken plea agreements 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:18.719 in exchange for testifying against George and Billy Wagner. We've 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:21.720 spent years chasing clues trying to unpack the mystery of 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:24.719 what happened that night. Since we've been following the Piked 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:27.640 and masker for so many years, Stephanie and I decided 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:29.440 the only way to make sure we got the whole 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:32.000 story was to get in that quart room for the trial. 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:40.720 Here's Stephanie as this trial finally approaches, there are a 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:43.520 lot of questions that we still don't have answers to 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:47.279 and are desperate to know more about. It was noted 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:50.280 in one of the motions that accused older brother George Wagner, 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:54.520 who is the one standing trial, only joined the murdering 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:58.479 spree very last minute that fateful night, and we don't 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:02.159 understand why. Says in the motion that he was only 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:06.440 going to protect his younger brother, Jake Wagner, from his father. 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:09.599 What does that even mean? I also want to know 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:12.640 if he accused mother Angela Wagner, was actually at four 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:16.040 murder locations. In her plea deal, she claims that she 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:21.000 was quote home babysitting, but previous reports say otherwise. She 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:24.600 also has a burglary charge, which would say perhaps she 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:27.880 was at the location before or after the murders. It's 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:30.800 yet unclear. And what a showdown in the courtroom. This 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:33.159 is actually going to be think about it for the 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:37.040 very first time in years. Angela Wagner, the accused mother, 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:41.520 and the youngest brother, Jake Wagner, are going to face off. 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:44.680 They're going to see George in the courtroom. They're gonna 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:47.560 lock eyes, and that's going to seal his fate. We 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:51.240 desperately want to be there for that. The courtroom where 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:53.400 the Wagner's fate will be decided as in the Pike 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:57.279 County Courthouse. It's a three story red brick federal style 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:00.719 building in the middle of Waverley, Ohio, about twenty miles 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:04.279 northeast of where the murders took place. It looks exactly 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:07.960 like you would imagine a medium sized midwest county courthouse 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:14.440 to look. The anticipation is extremely high. I've been involved 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:18.880 in this in this area Southwest Ohio trial work for years, 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:22.240 and I've never seen anything like it. Like every other 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:25.240 step in this case, from the crime scene itself, through 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:29.640 the investigation and shot and guilty verdicts, the word everyone 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:34.680 uses is unprecedented. The fact that it's holding true even 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:37.640 leading up to the actual trial maybe shouldn't feel surprising. 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:43.240 But it has been a pretty bumpy, unexpected start. Initially, 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:47.360 opening statements were slated to begin on Tuesday, September sixth, 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:50.480 the day after Labor Day. We booked a trip to 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:52.720 Pike County, only to have to cancel it due to 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:56.720 the delays. Jeff spoke with reporter James Pilcher about how 0:07:56.760 --> 0:07:59.040 local media was getting set up to cover the trial. 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:02.840 Tell me, so you're in Pike County right now or 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:04.840 where are you. I'm actually on the first floor of 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:09.400 the courtroom the courthouse, sitting right below the courtroom in 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:11.440 the media room. I'm going to be spending a lot 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:14.080 of time here over the next four weeks, five weeks, 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:17.240 six weeks. And so what's the feeling like in the 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:19.800 courthouse and around the courthouse? Well, today it was a 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:21.920 lot of hustle and bustle. With that, there were a 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:24.720 couple other chiev stations we're here dropping off their equipment. 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:28.280 We're installing all of our stuff, getting everything set up. 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:31.360 Do you think that Waverley Courthouse is ready for a 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:36.280 trial of this magnitude they're trying. They've actually installed higher 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:38.959 speed internet, They've installed free Wi Fi for us here 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:41.960 in the media room. I think there are some you know, 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:45.160 there's some businesses that are actually looking forward to it 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:46.920 because there's gonna be so many people in from out 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:51.520 of town as part of this. Over the past year, 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:55.680 we've gotten glimpses of the prosecution strategy based on arguments 0:08:55.720 --> 0:08:59.200 made by lead Attorney Angie Kneppa during pre trial motions. 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:02.240 It seems like they will attempt to paint a picture 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:04.640 of a tight knit family where everyone was in on 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:08.720 the plot. The defense's main argument is that the family 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:12.600 isn't on trial here, George Wagner is, and that he 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:20.120 didn't actually kill anyone that night. How does defense get 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:25.920 out from underneath the legal standard of aggravated murder, which states, 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:28.400 in Ohio you don't have to pull the trigger to 0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:31.000 be convicted of murder if you help plant and if 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:33.120 you help cover it up, and if you helped execute it. 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:35.840 So that's going to be a very big challenge and 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:38.960 I'm very interested to see what the defense says. The 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:41.800 wild card is what Jake and Angela may say while 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:45.480 on the stand. They have not seen each other since 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:49.080 being arrested in twenty eighteen. How common is that for 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:52.040 family to testify against family in a case like this. 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:58.120 It is extremely, extremely rare for family to testify against family. 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:01.640 Mike Allen, as a legal analyst who's worked on the 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:05.000 defense and prosecution sides and is also a former judge, 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:08.800 maybe I've seen it two or three times in all 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:12.040 the years I've been doing this, and never never on 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:15.240 a case of this, magnate dude. It's like two family 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:19.160 members against two other family members, and this is a 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:25.240 family that is reportedly extremely close. That's going to be 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:28.240 something to see because it just doesn't happen very often. 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:32.640 We can assume that what Jake and Angela say about 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:34.920 George is not going to be favorable. They're not going 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:37.680 to say that he didn't do anything wrong right, quite 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:40.680 the opposite, exactly. I mean, yeah, the prosecutor is not 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:43.120 going to put them up on the stand for them 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:47.040 to testify. How wonderful you know, George is ain't gonna happen. 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:49.280 They're not gonna be able to play around up there 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:52.120 and play footsie with the prosecutor. I mean, they have 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:56.040 to testify truthfully. Can you talk to us about what 0:10:56.240 --> 0:11:00.240 the possible end results are for George? Could he walk? 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:04.040 Are there lesser charges or is it guilty on all? 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:08.439 What are the options? Here are the options for George? 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:11.280 I mean, obviously one of the options is of finding 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:14.319 him not guilty to the aggravated murder. But even if 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:18.160 that were to happen, he's still stuck with four counts 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:22.560 of aggravated burglary, three counts of tampering with evidence, two 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:28.679 counts of unlawful possession of dangerous ordinance, single counts of conspiracy, forgery, 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:34.880 unauthorized use of a computer or telecommunications wire. So even 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:37.800 if he's not convicted of the homicides, there is a 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:40.440 lot here that can put him away for a lot 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:44.080 of years. Could all of those together equal a life 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:47.680 sentence or is that totally unknowable? Oh? No, it could 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:53.960 he easily equal life sense. Meanwhile, jury selection, which begun 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:57.720 on August eighth, is underway. The first hurdle is finding 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:00.760 an impartial jury in a small town for the largest 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:05.240 case in the history of Ohio. Here's a retired prosecutor 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:10.040 and Flanagan. You have to usually wait until you start 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:12.360 to see the jury and see if you can't come 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:15.120 up with a number of people who indicate they can 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:17.920 be fair and impartial. But it doesn't really matter if 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:21.800 they've had some information come through its will they listen 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:25.000 to the evidence and the rulings and the matters that 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:27.720 have been brought to them in the courtroom, set aside 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:30.720 anything else they might have heard, and then make the 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:35.680 decision fairly and honestly for both sides. I always talk 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:37.440 to a jury and say, you know, at the end 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:39.280 of the day, you want to go home, and you 0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:42.520 want to be safe in your own heart and mind 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:45.280 that you have only done what you've been asked to 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:47.160 do because you want to go home and be able 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:53.800 to sleep tonight. To find a jury. Pike County scent 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:58.320 about a thousand questionnaires to locals asking for volunteers. Two 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:01.040 hundred people responded, and the court is in the process 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:06.400 of whittling them down. Seventy perspective death qualified jurors reported 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:09.000 to the Pike County Courthouse. This is where final jury 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:13.240 selection is beginning. Death qualified means it's already been determined 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:16.000 that these jurors are willing to implement the death penalty 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:21.480 if it's warranted. Local crime reporter Anjeanette Levy has been 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:23.800 our Eyes and Ears on the ground in Ohio for 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:27.680 several seasons of the podcast. I spoke with Anjeanette about 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:29.880 what it's been like. During the week preceding the trial, 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:37.360 seventy death qualified jurors showed up at the Pike County Courthouse. 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:41.400 Fifty one of them were women and nineteen of them 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:46.320 were men, and so George Wagner, the Force attorneys, they 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:49.680 filed a motion saying, this whole panel, the whole veneer 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:53.960 should be stricken because it's too many women, and there 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:58.120 were working class jurors who were excluded for financial hardship 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:00.600 and they shouldn't have been. So that's disc a minatory 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:03.360 and so they thought, you know, we should start over 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:06.320 with the whole thing. Well, the judge said, no, I 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:09.960 don't think so and denied the motion. So jury selection continued, 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:12.719 and we were all wondering whether or not they'd be 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:15.720 able to really seat this jury, and they were able 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:19.000 to do it. So the jury consists of nine women 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:22.240 and three men, and then the panel of six alternates 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:26.200 and that's five women and one man. So you have 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:30.880 majority women who will be hearing this case. Wow, with 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:34.680 having so many women, that's unusual, right, you know, I 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:37.200 don't know if it's unusual. I think we've seen trials 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:39.920 like this in the past where it's waited one way 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:43.960 or the other. I covered the Johnny Depp trial in Virginia. 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:48.080 Different trial, obviously a civil case, a defamation case, but 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:51.040 the majority of the jurors were men on the panel. 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:55.920 Sometimes that's just how it shakes out. We're going to 0:14:55.960 --> 0:15:01.960 take a break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh. 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:05.000 I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a podcast called The 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:08.520 Girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:13.200 a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:19.400 He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:24.160 he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:29.239 He really wasn't. He shouted into the point she went unconscious. 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:33.760 Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:37.800 time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:40.760 girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:44.280 pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:45.920 I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:48.280 I'd spit on him. I would call him and I 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:51.120 would say, I know you killed my sister. I will 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:54.160 always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:58.800 the girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:03.240 you get your podcast from iHeart podcasts. What nay hell 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:06.880 is going on here? Everyone has their limits. I'd never 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:09.240 confronted a situation like this. I just thought it was 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:12.760 just a really terrible, immoral thing, a line they won't cross. 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:16.400 I was stunned and I just said, no, we're killing people. 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:19.680 You may never have to face that decision when you 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:23.400 find yourself at that line. Thou Ricin aren't Ricin, And 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:27.120 somebody needs to just for once give everybody the whole truth, 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:31.720 like this is evil and the only person who can 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:35.000 sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just going to 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:40.680 sit silently. Buy from iHeart podcasts. These are the whistleblowers. 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:43.040 If you are disloyal men, things are going to happen 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:46.160 to seek out disgrace through our gun. Evil PA should 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:51.920 be prosecuted. When power corrupts, conscience is the last line 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:56.240 of Defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on 0:16:56.320 --> 0:17:00.640 the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:10.199 My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:13.199 host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:17.840 award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:21.119 time to touch incredible guests about important things. People like 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:23.560 me have been screaming for years. We've got to watch 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:26.080 the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, what they're 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:28.800 doing is evil. They will take things away, and I 0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:32.400 can only hope that Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor moment. Girl, 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:34.760 You and I both know what it took to just 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:37.040 get through the day in New York City and get 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:40.040 home in one piece. And so the fact that we're 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:43.159 here and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know, 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:47.639 that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills. 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:50.200 The only reason that you might think, as Chase said, 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:53.640 that we're always miserable is because people are constantly attacking 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:56.320 us and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to The Laverne 0:17:56.320 --> 0:18:00.359 Cox Show on the iHeartRadio, app, Apple podcast or wherever 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:06.680 you get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share. Hi. 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:09.679 I'm Dalia Wild and I want to invite you to 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:14.080 listen to my newest podcast, The Afters to make up 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:17.119 our bodies already existed in the style. It's called the 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:21.000 Oh My God Particles Show or OMGPS for short. How 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:23.879 you like me always wondering about the universally, what the 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:27.239 universe is made of? What is in the atmospheres of 0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:29.680 alien panic? And you know, how are we even here 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:33.760 to even ask those questions? So road trip I want 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:37.160 to get some answers directly from researchers at the Large 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:41.760 Hadron Collider. We're colliding particles with energies that naturally existed 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:44.600 in the universe was about a trillion to the second old. 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:48.679 I found scientists from all over the world. Everybody is 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:52.840 working together to get their experiment working. I've got to 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:57.080 talk to brilliant astrophysicists who collaborated with Brian May, the 0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:00.639 guitarist from Queen. Listen to the Oh My On Particle 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:03.960 Show on me. I heard radio, app, Apple podcasts or 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:13.919 wherever you get your podcasts. With the jury chosen in 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:16.080 less than a week before the trial is said to begin, 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:21.000 Presiding Judge Deering drops a bombshell on the media. Late today, 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:24.600 Judge Randy Deering issued his final rules on what can 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:28.320 and can't be shown on camera or online. Judge Deerring 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:30.879 is going to allow each witness to opt out of 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:35.200 being photographed or recorded that includes any audio of their testimony, 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:38.359 So if they choose, witnesses can only be seen or 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:42.040 heard by people inside the courtroom. The judge will also 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:45.359 extend that right to the Wagner's younger brother Jake, and 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:49.960 his mother Angela when they testify for the prosecution. When 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:52.359 the witness comes to the stand, he's going to say, yeah, 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:55.520 the right not to be shown on television, and then 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:57.240 we have to turn the camera off. He's going to 0:19:57.280 --> 0:19:59.600 do that herby single witness. Why you know, it's gonna 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:02.040 be very cult up. They all say no, and we 0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:04.919 still haven't gotten any clarification and whether or not we 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:07.280 can at least play the audio of their voice, we're 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:08.639 still kind of up in the air. And when this 0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:10.959 whole thing's going to start, how we can cover it 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:15.320 all of that. Here's reporter and Jeanette Levy speaking with 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:18.920 producer Chris Graves. In the state of Ohio, witnesses can 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:23.040 opt out of being videotaped recorded in any way, so 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:24.760 we had to file something. So we're probably going to 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:27.600 have a hearing next week. If they deny this motion 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:31.119 that you guys are filing, then everyone gets the option 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:35.040 to turn down being recorded. Correct, They have the option anyway. 0:20:35.160 --> 0:20:39.440 What we're more concerned about is Jake and Angela being 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:41.440 on camera. We don't want them to be able to 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:44.439 opt out, and any other witnesses who want don't want 0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:47.359 to be photographed. We want the right to record at 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:50.880 least their audio. You know, there may be lay witnesses 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:55.080 who are fearful of testifying, and that's understandable, but we 0:20:55.119 --> 0:20:56.960 want to at least be able to hear what they're saying. 0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:00.720 We all pitched in, like all four Cincinnati TV stations, 0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:04.840 the Cincinnati Enquirer, Law Crime, and Court TV. We all 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:08.560 are represented by the same lawyer, Sure yeah, Jack Griner. 0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:12.200 Media lawyer Jack Grinder represented Local twelve and several other 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:15.160 outlets in the effort to get better access to the trial. 0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:20.000 On his website, Grinder calls himself a reporter's lawyer and 0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:23.400 is a well known champion for First Amendment rights. We've 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:26.520 spoken about him before. He's the same attorney who sued 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:30.680 for access to the autopsies in this case. We had 0:21:30.720 --> 0:21:34.280 hoped that we get a ruling that would really go 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:40.800 towards maximizing the public's ability to participate in this trial, 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:43.360 at least in the sense of observing it. People can 0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:46.680 come to the courtroom, but for many people that's not possible. 0:21:48.760 --> 0:21:51.960 With George Wagner the fourth facing twenty two counts, there's 0:21:52.000 --> 0:21:53.880 going to be a lot of evidence to go through 0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:58.040 point by point. Also, since there has been so much 0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:01.440 that's been protected and redacted in the autopsies, this will 0:22:01.480 --> 0:22:04.240 also be our first opportunity to see the crime scene 0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:09.080 photos to find out exactly what occurred that night. Here's Stephanie. 0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:12.840 Those are going to tell a very specific story. I 0:22:12.920 --> 0:22:16.000 just want to see the accused, Billy Wagner, in person 0:22:16.359 --> 0:22:19.520 and see how his demeanor is. I mean, think about it. 0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:23.280 It's been alleged that Billy Wagner, George Wagner, and Jake 0:22:23.320 --> 0:22:27.600 Wagner all attended the funerals of people who they murdered. 0:22:27.880 --> 0:22:30.720 I mean, can you imagine the level of composure that 0:22:30.800 --> 0:22:35.159 must take and what kind of psychopaths actually attend the 0:22:35.240 --> 0:22:39.120 funeral and pretend to be mourning the people they actually murdered. 0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:41.960 This will also be the time when we find out if, 0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:46.199 indeed these eight murders the sole motive behind them was 0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:49.280 for custody of the daughter, who was shared between confirmed 0:22:49.359 --> 0:22:54.359 murderer Jake Wagner and the victim Hannah may Roden or 0:22:55.680 --> 0:22:59.080 were many other things at play, and more importantly, God 0:22:59.080 --> 0:23:03.560 willing the road Ins, the Gillies, and the Manly family 0:23:04.160 --> 0:23:11.080 that they'll finally get some justice as the child gets closer. 0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:19.439 There is another surprising development. The jury boarded a school 0:23:19.480 --> 0:23:21.600 bus and then they were taken to some of the 0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:25.040 remote locations where the crime scenes actually happen. In both 0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:32.879 Pikedon and Reardon, Ohio, jurors visited all four crime scenes, 0:23:33.040 --> 0:23:36.119 looking closely at run down buildings now partially covered in 0:23:36.200 --> 0:23:39.119 overgrowth and the vacant ground where the road In mobile 0:23:39.160 --> 0:23:42.920 homes once sat. But a reminder that the jury view 0:23:43.040 --> 0:23:45.840 is not to be considered as evidence for the jurors. Rather, 0:23:45.880 --> 0:23:48.840 it's to give them a better understanding of the arguments 0:23:48.880 --> 0:23:51.639 here and really kind of give them a lay of 0:23:51.680 --> 0:23:54.400 the land, if you will. Anette Levy and the rest 0:23:54.440 --> 0:23:56.640 of the media are allowed to follow the school bus 0:23:56.680 --> 0:23:59.200 full of jurors and view the proceedings from a distance. 0:24:00.480 --> 0:24:03.520 Chris Graves and I spoke with her about this. We 0:24:03.720 --> 0:24:06.760 followed along as the school bus and the motorcade went 0:24:06.760 --> 0:24:09.480 around and we went to all these sites from nine 0:24:09.560 --> 0:24:12.199 thirty in the morning till about seven at night. We 0:24:12.320 --> 0:24:16.320 also went to places points of interest and drove around 0:24:16.320 --> 0:24:19.520 a lot of roads where you know, they determined it 0:24:19.560 --> 0:24:21.880 was like the routes. They said that the Wagner strove 0:24:21.880 --> 0:24:25.240 that night. Did they show them in the order that 0:24:25.359 --> 0:24:27.680 they thought they had been killed? We believe. So. It 0:24:27.800 --> 0:24:31.280 started out at Chris's house, Chris Senior. Then they walked 0:24:31.280 --> 0:24:35.560 a path down to Frankie Roden's house that he shared 0:24:35.600 --> 0:24:39.160