Speaker 1: We're excited to share episode one of the new season
Speaker 1: with you, but we're even more excited to tell you
Speaker 1: that you can actually listen to this episode completely ad
Speaker 1: free with iHeart True Crime Plus, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Plus,
Speaker 1: you'll get instant access to episode two, as well, a
Speaker 1: whole week ahead of everyone else, and never before heard
Speaker 1: bonus episode that is only available to subscribers. So head
Speaker 1: to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeart True Crime Plus and
Speaker 1: subscribe today. The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have
Speaker 1: been recording themselves to make a new documentary. Were the
Speaker 1: news reporters because one year ago a mass shooting changed
Speaker 1: their lives. He just walked around shot all the black people.
Speaker 1: The cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to
Speaker 1: figure out how to go on and how to compete.
Speaker 1: I wanted the one for them more than anything this season.
Speaker 1: Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio
Speaker 1: app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher
Speaker 1: and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girl Friends. It's
Speaker 1: Las Vegas, it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time
Speaker 1: to find a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who
Speaker 1: were felt to be eligible bachelors. One of them was
Speaker 1: of the spot Baronmout. On paper, he was perfect, but
Speaker 1: in reality, this guy's a wacko. He shouted into the
Speaker 1: point she went unconscious. I would call him and I
Speaker 1: would say, I know you killed my sister. You can
Speaker 1: listen to the Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm will daily. For years,
Speaker 1: I've been on the road playing shows and seeing America
Speaker 1: through live music. This summer, I'll hit the stage. Season
Speaker 1: two of Sound of Our Town ten cities twelve episodes
Speaker 1: every other Thursday, we explore the live music venues and
Speaker 1: culture of a new American city. With each new episode,
Speaker 1: our tour continues into the kind of venues you want
Speaker 1: to get to when you land in Detroit, Providence, Denver,
Speaker 1: or Seattle. Listen to Sound of Our Town on the
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: The number one true crime podcast is back. The bodies
Speaker 1: of eight family members were discovered in Pike County, Ohio.
Speaker 1: Season four of The Pikes and Massacre. The trials begin,
Speaker 1: So let's talk about the crime scenes. Accused murderer George
Speaker 1: Wagner faces a judge and jury. This is legitimately the
Speaker 1: biggest murder trial in the state of Ohio's history. They're
Speaker 1: going to be some surprises in this trial. His mother
Speaker 1: and youngest brother are said to testify against him. It
Speaker 1: is extremely rare for family to testify against family. Will
Speaker 1: he face the death penalty they killed the mother of
Speaker 1: the girl they were trying to get custody up or
Speaker 1: will he walk free? I think the defense knows something
Speaker 1: that we don't know. We're there tracking the case in
Speaker 1: real time. I don't think I've ever seen photos that
Speaker 1: graphic before. Joined the nearly thirty million listeners as the
Speaker 1: mystery unfolds. When a juror sees a human bodies and
Speaker 1: ripped shreds, they want their pound flesh. This is the
Speaker 1: piped and Massacre Childs begin Season four, episode one, on
Speaker 1: the eve of I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at
Speaker 1: KAT Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane. After following
Speaker 1: this case for years, trials are officially beginning in Ohio's
Speaker 1: largest criminal investigation in the state's history. It's been more
Speaker 1: than six years since the events of April twenty first,
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, when eight family members were shot dead in
Speaker 1: the middle of the night, some were sleeping and others.
Speaker 1: Based on crime scene evidence, their final moments are unimaginable.
Speaker 1: It's important to note that George Wagner, the fourth currently
Speaker 1: on trial, and his father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming,
Speaker 1: have pleaded not guilty to all charges. Prosecutors say the
Speaker 1: Wagner family planned the killing for months. I don't know
Speaker 1: that people can fully fathom what went on in those
Speaker 1: mobile homes. But when the full force of that hits
Speaker 1: the most important people in the room, which are going
Speaker 1: to be those jurors, it's going to reverberate. Two and
Speaker 1: a half years later, four members of a prominent local
Speaker 1: family who knew the victims very well, were arrested in
Speaker 1: charge with capital murder. This was planned and plotted four
Speaker 1: different homes where these family members were slaughtered, absolutely slaughtered.
Speaker 1: And for this family, God, and when this happened, think
Speaker 1: about this shock and confusion. Who takes out a whole
Speaker 1: family and why would you do that? Matriarch Angela Wagner,
Speaker 1: her husband Billy, and their two sons in their early twenties,
Speaker 1: Jake and George were the arrested parties. Since then, Angela
Speaker 1: Wagner and her youngest son Jake have taken plea agreements
Speaker 1: in exchange for testifying against George and Billy Wagner. We've
Speaker 1: spent years chasing clues trying to unpack the mystery of
Speaker 1: what happened that night. Since we've been following the Piked
Speaker 1: and masker for so many years, Stephanie and I decided
Speaker 1: the only way to make sure we got the whole
Speaker 1: story was to get in that quart room for the trial.
Speaker 1: Here's Stephanie as this trial finally approaches, there are a
Speaker 1: lot of questions that we still don't have answers to
Speaker 1: and are desperate to know more about. It was noted
Speaker 1: in one of the motions that accused older brother George Wagner,
Speaker 1: who is the one standing trial, only joined the murdering
Speaker 1: spree very last minute that fateful night, and we don't
Speaker 1: understand why. Says in the motion that he was only
Speaker 1: going to protect his younger brother, Jake Wagner, from his father.
Speaker 1: What does that even mean? I also want to know
Speaker 1: if he accused mother Angela Wagner, was actually at four
Speaker 1: murder locations. In her plea deal, she claims that she
Speaker 1: was quote home babysitting, but previous reports say otherwise. She
Speaker 1: also has a burglary charge, which would say perhaps she
Speaker 1: was at the location before or after the murders. It's
Speaker 1: yet unclear. And what a showdown in the courtroom. This
Speaker 1: is actually going to be think about it for the
Speaker 1: very first time in years. Angela Wagner, the accused mother,
Speaker 1: and the youngest brother, Jake Wagner, are going to face off.
Speaker 1: They're going to see George in the courtroom. They're gonna
Speaker 1: lock eyes, and that's going to seal his fate. We
Speaker 1: desperately want to be there for that. The courtroom where
Speaker 1: the Wagner's fate will be decided as in the Pike
Speaker 1: County Courthouse. It's a three story red brick federal style
Speaker 1: building in the middle of Waverley, Ohio, about twenty miles
Speaker 1: northeast of where the murders took place. It looks exactly
Speaker 1: like you would imagine a medium sized midwest county courthouse
Speaker 1: to look. The anticipation is extremely high. I've been involved
Speaker 1: in this in this area Southwest Ohio trial work for years,
Speaker 1: and I've never seen anything like it. Like every other
Speaker 1: step in this case, from the crime scene itself, through
Speaker 1: the investigation and shot and guilty verdicts, the word everyone
Speaker 1: uses is unprecedented. The fact that it's holding true even
Speaker 1: leading up to the actual trial maybe shouldn't feel surprising.
Speaker 1: But it has been a pretty bumpy, unexpected start. Initially,
Speaker 1: opening statements were slated to begin on Tuesday, September sixth,
Speaker 1: the day after Labor Day. We booked a trip to
Speaker 1: Pike County, only to have to cancel it due to
Speaker 1: the delays. Jeff spoke with reporter James Pilcher about how
Speaker 1: local media was getting set up to cover the trial.
Speaker 1: Tell me, so you're in Pike County right now or
Speaker 1: where are you. I'm actually on the first floor of
Speaker 1: the courtroom the courthouse, sitting right below the courtroom in
Speaker 1: the media room. I'm going to be spending a lot
Speaker 1: of time here over the next four weeks, five weeks,
Speaker 1: six weeks. And so what's the feeling like in the
Speaker 1: courthouse and around the courthouse? Well, today it was a
Speaker 1: lot of hustle and bustle. With that, there were a
Speaker 1: couple other chiev stations we're here dropping off their equipment.
Speaker 1: We're installing all of our stuff, getting everything set up.
Speaker 1: Do you think that Waverley Courthouse is ready for a
Speaker 1: trial of this magnitude they're trying. They've actually installed higher
Speaker 1: speed internet, They've installed free Wi Fi for us here
Speaker 1: in the media room. I think there are some you know,
Speaker 1: there's some businesses that are actually looking forward to it
Speaker 1: because there's gonna be so many people in from out
Speaker 1: of town as part of this. Over the past year,
Speaker 1: we've gotten glimpses of the prosecution strategy based on arguments
Speaker 1: made by lead Attorney Angie Kneppa during pre trial motions.
Speaker 1: It seems like they will attempt to paint a picture
Speaker 1: of a tight knit family where everyone was in on
Speaker 1: the plot. The defense's main argument is that the family
Speaker 1: isn't on trial here, George Wagner is, and that he
Speaker 1: didn't actually kill anyone that night. How does defense get
Speaker 1: out from underneath the legal standard of aggravated murder, which states,
Speaker 1: in Ohio you don't have to pull the trigger to
Speaker 1: be convicted of murder if you help plant and if
Speaker 1: you help cover it up, and if you helped execute it.
Speaker 1: So that's going to be a very big challenge and
Speaker 1: I'm very interested to see what the defense says. The
Speaker 1: wild card is what Jake and Angela may say while
Speaker 1: on the stand. They have not seen each other since
Speaker 1: being arrested in twenty eighteen. How common is that for
Speaker 1: family to testify against family in a case like this.
Speaker 1: It is extremely, extremely rare for family to testify against family.
Speaker 1: Mike Allen, as a legal analyst who's worked on the
Speaker 1: defense and prosecution sides and is also a former judge,
Speaker 1: maybe I've seen it two or three times in all
Speaker 1: the years I've been doing this, and never never on
Speaker 1: a case of this, magnate dude. It's like two family
Speaker 1: members against two other family members, and this is a
Speaker 1: family that is reportedly extremely close. That's going to be
Speaker 1: something to see because it just doesn't happen very often.
Speaker 1: We can assume that what Jake and Angela say about
Speaker 1: George is not going to be favorable. They're not going
Speaker 1: to say that he didn't do anything wrong right, quite
Speaker 1: the opposite, exactly. I mean, yeah, the prosecutor is not
Speaker 1: going to put them up on the stand for them
Speaker 1: to testify. How wonderful you know, George is ain't gonna happen.
Speaker 1: They're not gonna be able to play around up there
Speaker 1: and play footsie with the prosecutor. I mean, they have
Speaker 1: to testify truthfully. Can you talk to us about what
Speaker 1: the possible end results are for George? Could he walk?
Speaker 1: Are there lesser charges or is it guilty on all?
Speaker 1: What are the options? Here are the options for George?
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously one of the options is of finding
Speaker 1: him not guilty to the aggravated murder. But even if
Speaker 1: that were to happen, he's still stuck with four counts
Speaker 1: of aggravated burglary, three counts of tampering with evidence, two
Speaker 1: counts of unlawful possession of dangerous ordinance, single counts of conspiracy, forgery,
Speaker 1: unauthorized use of a computer or telecommunications wire. So even
Speaker 1: if he's not convicted of the homicides, there is a
Speaker 1: lot here that can put him away for a lot
Speaker 1: of years. Could all of those together equal a life
Speaker 1: sentence or is that totally unknowable? Oh? No, it could
Speaker 1: he easily equal life sense. Meanwhile, jury selection, which begun
Speaker 1: on August eighth, is underway. The first hurdle is finding
Speaker 1: an impartial jury in a small town for the largest
Speaker 1: case in the history of Ohio. Here's a retired prosecutor
Speaker 1: and Flanagan. You have to usually wait until you start
Speaker 1: to see the jury and see if you can't come
Speaker 1: up with a number of people who indicate they can
Speaker 1: be fair and impartial. But it doesn't really matter if
Speaker 1: they've had some information come through its will they listen
Speaker 1: to the evidence and the rulings and the matters that
Speaker 1: have been brought to them in the courtroom, set aside
Speaker 1: anything else they might have heard, and then make the
Speaker 1: decision fairly and honestly for both sides. I always talk
Speaker 1: to a jury and say, you know, at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, you want to go home, and you
Speaker 1: want to be safe in your own heart and mind
Speaker 1: that you have only done what you've been asked to
Speaker 1: do because you want to go home and be able
Speaker 1: to sleep tonight. To find a jury. Pike County scent
Speaker 1: about a thousand questionnaires to locals asking for volunteers. Two
Speaker 1: hundred people responded, and the court is in the process
Speaker 1: of whittling them down. Seventy perspective death qualified jurors reported
Speaker 1: to the Pike County Courthouse. This is where final jury
Speaker 1: selection is beginning. Death qualified means it's already been determined
Speaker 1: that these jurors are willing to implement the death penalty
Speaker 1: if it's warranted. Local crime reporter Anjeanette Levy has been
Speaker 1: our Eyes and Ears on the ground in Ohio for
Speaker 1: several seasons of the podcast. I spoke with Anjeanette about
Speaker 1: what it's been like. During the week preceding the trial,
Speaker 1: seventy death qualified jurors showed up at the Pike County Courthouse.
Speaker 1: Fifty one of them were women and nineteen of them
Speaker 1: were men, and so George Wagner, the Force attorneys, they
Speaker 1: filed a motion saying, this whole panel, the whole veneer
Speaker 1: should be stricken because it's too many women, and there
Speaker 1: were working class jurors who were excluded for financial hardship
Speaker 1: and they shouldn't have been. So that's disc a minatory
Speaker 1: and so they thought, you know, we should start over
Speaker 1: with the whole thing. Well, the judge said, no, I
Speaker 1: don't think so and denied the motion. So jury selection continued,
Speaker 1: and we were all wondering whether or not they'd be
Speaker 1: able to really seat this jury, and they were able
Speaker 1: to do it. So the jury consists of nine women
Speaker 1: and three men, and then the panel of six alternates
Speaker 1: and that's five women and one man. So you have
Speaker 1: majority women who will be hearing this case. Wow, with
Speaker 1: having so many women, that's unusual, right, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's unusual. I think we've seen trials
Speaker 1: like this in the past where it's waited one way
Speaker 1: or the other. I covered the Johnny Depp trial in Virginia.
Speaker 1: Different trial, obviously a civil case, a defamation case, but
Speaker 1: the majority of the jurors were men on the panel.
Speaker 1: Sometimes that's just how it shakes out. We're going to
Speaker 1: take a break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh.
Speaker 1: I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a podcast called The
Speaker 1: Girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob.
Speaker 1: He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and
Speaker 1: he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't.
Speaker 1: He really wasn't. He shouted into the point she went unconscious.
Speaker 1: Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one
Speaker 1: time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us
Speaker 1: girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to
Speaker 1: pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice.
Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now,
Speaker 1: I'd spit on him. I would call him and I
Speaker 1: would say, I know you killed my sister. I will
Speaker 1: always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to
Speaker 1: the girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcast from iHeart podcasts. What nay hell
Speaker 1: is going on here? Everyone has their limits. I'd never
Speaker 1: confronted a situation like this. I just thought it was
Speaker 1: just a really terrible, immoral thing, a line they won't cross.
Speaker 1: I was stunned and I just said, no, we're killing people.
Speaker 1: You may never have to face that decision when you
Speaker 1: find yourself at that line. Thou Ricin aren't Ricin, And
Speaker 1: somebody needs to just for once give everybody the whole truth,
Speaker 1: like this is evil and the only person who can
Speaker 1: sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just going to
Speaker 1: sit silently. Buy from iHeart podcasts. These are the whistleblowers.
Speaker 1: If you are disloyal men, things are going to happen
Speaker 1: to seek out disgrace through our gun. Evil PA should
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Speaker 1: of Defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and
Speaker 1: host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my
Speaker 1: award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always
Speaker 1: time to touch incredible guests about important things. People like
Speaker 1: me have been screaming for years. We've got to watch
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, what they're
Speaker 1: doing is evil. They will take things away, and I
Speaker 1: can only hope that Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor moment. Girl,
Speaker 1: You and I both know what it took to just
Speaker 1: get through the day in New York City and get
Speaker 1: home in one piece. And so the fact that we're
Speaker 1: here and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know,
Speaker 1: that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills.
Speaker 1: The only reason that you might think, as Chase said,
Speaker 1: that we're always miserable is because people are constantly attacking
Speaker 1: us and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to The Laverne
Speaker 1: Cox Show on the iHeartRadio, app, Apple podcast or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share. Hi.
Speaker 1: I'm Dalia Wild and I want to invite you to
Speaker 1: listen to my newest podcast, The Afters to make up
Speaker 1: our bodies already existed in the style. It's called the
Speaker 1: Oh My God Particles Show or OMGPS for short. How
Speaker 1: you like me always wondering about the universally, what the
Speaker 1: universe is made of? What is in the atmospheres of
Speaker 1: alien panic? And you know, how are we even here
Speaker 1: to even ask those questions? So road trip I want
Speaker 1: to get some answers directly from researchers at the Large
Speaker 1: Hadron Collider. We're colliding particles with energies that naturally existed
Speaker 1: in the universe was about a trillion to the second old.
Speaker 1: I found scientists from all over the world. Everybody is
Speaker 1: working together to get their experiment working. I've got to
Speaker 1: talk to brilliant astrophysicists who collaborated with Brian May, the
Speaker 1: guitarist from Queen. Listen to the Oh My On Particle
Speaker 1: Show on me. I heard radio, app, Apple podcasts or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. With the jury chosen in
Speaker 1: less than a week before the trial is said to begin,
Speaker 1: Presiding Judge Deering drops a bombshell on the media. Late today,
Speaker 1: Judge Randy Deering issued his final rules on what can
Speaker 1: and can't be shown on camera or online. Judge Deerring
Speaker 1: is going to allow each witness to opt out of
Speaker 1: being photographed or recorded that includes any audio of their testimony,
Speaker 1: So if they choose, witnesses can only be seen or
Speaker 1: heard by people inside the courtroom. The judge will also
Speaker 1: extend that right to the Wagner's younger brother Jake, and
Speaker 1: his mother Angela when they testify for the prosecution. When
Speaker 1: the witness comes to the stand, he's going to say, yeah,
Speaker 1: the right not to be shown on television, and then
Speaker 1: we have to turn the camera off. He's going to
Speaker 1: do that herby single witness. Why you know, it's gonna
Speaker 1: be very cult up. They all say no, and we
Speaker 1: still haven't gotten any clarification and whether or not we
Speaker 1: can at least play the audio of their voice, we're
Speaker 1: still kind of up in the air. And when this
Speaker 1: whole thing's going to start, how we can cover it
Speaker 1: all of that. Here's reporter and Jeanette Levy speaking with
Speaker 1: producer Chris Graves. In the state of Ohio, witnesses can
Speaker 1: opt out of being videotaped recorded in any way, so
Speaker 1: we had to file something. So we're probably going to
Speaker 1: have a hearing next week. If they deny this motion
Speaker 1: that you guys are filing, then everyone gets the option
Speaker 1: to turn down being recorded. Correct, They have the option anyway.
Speaker 1: What we're more concerned about is Jake and Angela being
Speaker 1: on camera. We don't want them to be able to
Speaker 1: opt out, and any other witnesses who want don't want
Speaker 1: to be photographed. We want the right to record at
Speaker 1: least their audio. You know, there may be lay witnesses
Speaker 1: who are fearful of testifying, and that's understandable, but we
Speaker 1: want to at least be able to hear what they're saying.
Speaker 1: We all pitched in, like all four Cincinnati TV stations,
Speaker 1: the Cincinnati Enquirer, Law Crime, and Court TV. We all
Speaker 1: are represented by the same lawyer, Sure yeah, Jack Griner.
Speaker 1: Media lawyer Jack Grinder represented Local twelve and several other
Speaker 1: outlets in the effort to get better access to the trial.
Speaker 1: On his website, Grinder calls himself a reporter's lawyer and
Speaker 1: is a well known champion for First Amendment rights. We've
Speaker 1: spoken about him before. He's the same attorney who sued
Speaker 1: for access to the autopsies in this case. We had
Speaker 1: hoped that we get a ruling that would really go
Speaker 1: towards maximizing the public's ability to participate in this trial,
Speaker 1: at least in the sense of observing it. People can
Speaker 1: come to the courtroom, but for many people that's not possible.
Speaker 1: With George Wagner the fourth facing twenty two counts, there's
Speaker 1: going to be a lot of evidence to go through
Speaker 1: point by point. Also, since there has been so much
Speaker 1: that's been protected and redacted in the autopsies, this will
Speaker 1: also be our first opportunity to see the crime scene
Speaker 1: photos to find out exactly what occurred that night. Here's Stephanie.
Speaker 1: Those are going to tell a very specific story. I
Speaker 1: just want to see the accused, Billy Wagner, in person
Speaker 1: and see how his demeanor is. I mean, think about it.
Speaker 1: It's been alleged that Billy Wagner, George Wagner, and Jake
Speaker 1: Wagner all attended the funerals of people who they murdered.
Speaker 1: I mean, can you imagine the level of composure that
Speaker 1: must take and what kind of psychopaths actually attend the
Speaker 1: funeral and pretend to be mourning the people they actually murdered.
Speaker 1: This will also be the time when we find out if,
Speaker 1: indeed these eight murders the sole motive behind them was
Speaker 1: for custody of the daughter, who was shared between confirmed
Speaker 1: murderer Jake Wagner and the victim Hannah may Roden or
Speaker 1: were many other things at play, and more importantly, God
Speaker 1: willing the road Ins, the Gillies, and the Manly family
Speaker 1: that they'll finally get some justice as the child gets closer.
Speaker 1: There is another surprising development. The jury boarded a school
Speaker 1: bus and then they were taken to some of the
Speaker 1: remote locations where the crime scenes actually happen. In both
Speaker 1: Pikedon and Reardon, Ohio, jurors visited all four crime scenes,
Speaker 1: looking closely at run down buildings now partially covered in
Speaker 1: overgrowth and the vacant ground where the road In mobile
Speaker 1: homes once sat. But a reminder that the jury view
Speaker 1: is not to be considered as evidence for the jurors. Rather,
Speaker 1: it's to give them a better understanding of the arguments
Speaker 1: here and really kind of give them a lay of
Speaker 1: the land, if you will. Anette Levy and the rest
Speaker 1: of the media are allowed to follow the school bus
Speaker 1: full of jurors and view the proceedings from a distance.
Speaker 1: Chris Graves and I spoke with her about this. We
Speaker 1: followed along as the school bus and the motorcade went
Speaker 1: around and we went to all these sites from nine
Speaker 1: thirty in the morning till about seven at night. We
Speaker 1: also went to places points of interest and drove around
Speaker 1: a lot of roads where you know, they determined it
Speaker 1: was like the routes. They said that the Wagner strove
Speaker 1: that night. Did they show them in the order that
Speaker 1: they thought they had been killed? We believe. So. It
Speaker 1: started out at Chris's house, Chris Senior. Then they walked
Speaker 1: a path down to Frankie Roden's house that he shared
Speaker 1: with Hannah Gilly, and then they went down to Dana
Speaker 1: Roden's home, but didn't stop. So it was very interesting.
Speaker 1: It makes you think, did they start at Chris Senior's,
Speaker 1: then they went down to Frankie's, they turn around, they
Speaker 1: see that, you know, whatever's going on at Dana's house.
Speaker 1: Maybe they didn't stop. Maybe they went down to Cadets
Speaker 1: and came back. We don't know that for certain, but
Speaker 1: it's certainly a possibility because there was a discussion that
Speaker 1: Dana had worked at double shift that night and worked
Speaker 1: later than anticipated. Oh my god, is the implication potentially
Speaker 1: with what you just said, that they knew she was
Speaker 1: working a double shift and therefore didn't want to go
Speaker 1: knowing she wouldn't be there. That was the conclusion we
Speaker 1: were drawing. That doesn't mean we were right, but it
Speaker 1: seemed strange that they would drive down to Dana's and
Speaker 1: not get out when you're on the same road. Why
Speaker 1: do that? I don't recall a case where the jurors
Speaker 1: and this includes the people the twelve and paneled and
Speaker 1: then the alternates are loaded up in a school bus
Speaker 1: and driven out to these locations where these events took place.
Speaker 1: Here's forensic death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan. You think about,
Speaker 1: you know, as the crew is moving down the road
Speaker 1: and they essentially wiped out one portion of the family,
Speaker 1: are they talking about, you know, what they're going to
Speaker 1: do next on Union Hill Road? And that kind of
Speaker 1: puts it in perspective at that moment time, does the
Speaker 1: jury have a sense of that was the prosecutor or
Speaker 1: the detectives on board that school bus is kind of
Speaker 1: acting like a tour guide, if you will, and telling
Speaker 1: them it was at this point that they picked up
Speaker 1: the car. It was they we believe that they traveled
Speaker 1: in this direction. And you're getting an idea of this space,
Speaker 1: and then you you contemplate for a moment what these
Speaker 1: folks in the vehicle or we're talking about doing and
Speaker 1: what they did. And I think that that's that's certainly
Speaker 1: a note that the prosecutors want to drop into the
Speaker 1: ears of the jury numbers. You know, all of these
Speaker 1: sorts of little details like that, which can I think,
Speaker 1: you know, after this trial, these trials are said and done.
Speaker 1: This is something that will be studied for years to come.
Speaker 1: This Pike County sheriff in Pound lot is a key
Speaker 1: stop on the jury view. Remember, the rodents were found
Speaker 1: dead inside their mobile homes and camper and this lot
Speaker 1: is where those vehicles were hauled and are still being
Speaker 1: helped today. They took them to the impound lot at
Speaker 1: the Sheriff's office, where the trailers are now stored and
Speaker 1: where the pickup truck that we believe Dake said they
Speaker 1: purchased to commit the murders is stored. They were taken
Speaker 1: to ten locations over two days. To our knowledge, they
Speaker 1: were not taken into the actual trailers. We were not
Speaker 1: permitted to go into the actual structure where those trailers
Speaker 1: are housed. So we should have been allowed in there.
Speaker 1: It's public property, and according to the precedent, even if
Speaker 1: it was private property, we should be allowed to go
Speaker 1: on it, but they kept us out. Stephanie and I
Speaker 1: have been too piked in numerous times over the past
Speaker 1: few years, but this time the stakes failed higher. The
Speaker 1: last time you and I were here, it was snowing
Speaker 1: and raining and dark and dreary and so cold, And
Speaker 1: now it's sunny and bright and definitely has a different feeling.
Speaker 1: We head to the courthouse to meet up with reporter
Speaker 1: James Pilcher to find out the latest about media access.
Speaker 1: The most surprising thing about this whole enterprise is how
Speaker 1: quickly the judge turned from being media friendly to all
Speaker 1: of a sudden being the most restrictive trial however any
Speaker 1: of us have ever had to deal with. Ever. Why
Speaker 1: do you think we don't know why We've asked, why
Speaker 1: we've asked for a meeting with the judge, We've gotten
Speaker 1: no answer. Technically, if you're a city official. You work
Speaker 1: for the city. So if the city is you know,
Speaker 1: air quote standing sitting jury and watching and wanting to
Speaker 1: see how taxpayer dollars are getting spent for me, it's
Speaker 1: more of a transparency public record. This is the most complex,
Speaker 1: most important murder trial in the history of the state,
Speaker 1: and yet nobody can watch it. I don't know, unless
Speaker 1: we want to push it to another appeals court or
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court, there's nothing we can do. Like I
Speaker 1: kind of get it for retribution purposes if you're somebody
Speaker 1: who's speaking out against the accused Wagners and you're fearing
Speaker 1: that someone's going to come put a hit on you.
Speaker 1: On Friday, they started erecting a fence around the parking
Speaker 1: lot of the courthouse and the entire courthouse, a chain
Speaker 1: link fence. We had never seen that before. This is
Speaker 1: an old, old courthouse, and George Wagner has to be
Speaker 1: brought into the courthouse from the outside. There isn't an
Speaker 1: underground tunnel or any other type of entrance, so they've
Speaker 1: erected defense. Is that concern for his safety? I would
Speaker 1: assume it's a safety issue. They don't want people just
Speaker 1: kind of walking through there that shouldn't be in there.
Speaker 1: That's my interpretation of why they did that. Hopefully we
Speaker 1: can get cameras in there, that's really the goal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: right now, I don't know. Man kind of looks a
Speaker 1: little bit shaky. What do you think the feeling is
Speaker 1: for the prosecution, for the defense, for everyone in Pike
Speaker 1: County right now? You know, any time before trial and
Speaker 1: you get butterflies, No matter how many of them that
Speaker 1: you've done before, you get butterflies. Let's stop here for
Speaker 1: another break. Oh. I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a
Speaker 1: podcast called The Girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties
Speaker 1: in Las Vegas, a few of us dated the most
Speaker 1: eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke several languages, he
Speaker 1: did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish. He was
Speaker 1: perfect on paper, but he wasn't. He really wasn't. He
Speaker 1: shouted and to the point she went unconscious. Bob could
Speaker 1: lie about anything, but only takes the one time when
Speaker 1: somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know
Speaker 1: how to fight back. I wanted him to pay for
Speaker 1: his crime. He needed to be put to justice. I'll
Speaker 1: be honest with your fis saw him right now. I
Speaker 1: spit on him. I would call him and I would say,
Speaker 1: I know you killed my sister. I will always hound
Speaker 1: you and haunt you. You can listen to the girl
Speaker 1: Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts from iHeart Podcasts. Whitney, hell is going
Speaker 1: on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted a
Speaker 1: situation like this. I just thought it was just a
Speaker 1: really terrible, immoral thing, a line they won't cross. I
Speaker 1: was stunned, and I just said, no, we're killing people.
Speaker 1: You may never have to face that decision when you
Speaker 1: find yourself at that line. Thou its ricin, arn't ricin,
Speaker 1: And somebody needs to just for once give everybody the
Speaker 1: whole truth, like this is evil and the only person
Speaker 1: who can sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just
Speaker 1: going to sit silently. Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These are
Speaker 1: the whistleblowers. If you are disloyal, things are going to
Speaker 1: happen to week out disgrace through our gun people page.
Speaker 1: It's been prosecan. When power corrupts, conscience is the last
Speaker 1: line of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts, or wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts. My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista,
Speaker 1: and host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember
Speaker 1: my award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's
Speaker 1: always time to touch incredible guests about important things. People
Speaker 1: like me have been screaming for years. We've got to
Speaker 1: watch the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, what
Speaker 1: they're doing is evil. They will take things away. And
Speaker 1: I can only hope that Dobbs is that like Pearl
Speaker 1: Harbor moment or you and I both know what it
Speaker 1: took to just get through the day in New York
Speaker 1: City and get home in one piece. And so the
Speaker 1: fact that we're here and what you've achieved and what
Speaker 1: I've achieved, you know, that's momentous. It's not just sitting
Speaker 1: around complaining about some bills. The only reason that you
Speaker 1: might think, as Chase said, that we're always miserable is
Speaker 1: because people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it.
Speaker 1: Listen to The Laverne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app
Speaker 1: Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast, be sure
Speaker 1: to subscribe and share in our twenty two years of friendship, Andy,
Speaker 1: this has to be the most bizarre thing we've ever done.
Speaker 1: I know, I love it. Our podcast My Vagina said,
Speaker 1: what is a podcast where we ask our everyday Vagina
Speaker 1: listeners to pull up a seat at the best Friend's
Speaker 1: table as we share our most personal and humiliating stories
Speaker 1: and ask questions about women's bodies. We are going to
Speaker 1: discuss all body things like what exactly are we supposed
Speaker 1: to do with our pubs? Oh my gosh, if you
Speaker 1: could have a heart shaped pube that were bedazzled in
Speaker 1: pink rubies, perimenopause. I feel right now justified. I'm going
Speaker 1: to start my own personal movement. I'm going to start
Speaker 1: blaming anything that goes wrong in my life on perrymenopause,
Speaker 1: leg hare too long, peru don't have the will to clean,
Speaker 1: perrymnopause exactly, our whack periods, boob issues, and so much more.
Speaker 1: Listen to My Vagina said, what podcasts on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. What. On
Speaker 1: the morning of the first day of trial, the media
Speaker 1: is alerted to another development, opening statements were expected and
Speaker 1: slated for today, but there has been a delay. We
Speaker 1: were supposed to be an opening statements right now that
Speaker 1: we got word that somebody involved with the trial has
Speaker 1: become ill and needs some time to recover. It's a
Speaker 1: temporary setback in a process that has taken over six
Speaker 1: years to begin. As of right now, we're planning for
Speaker 1: opening statements on September twelfth. That's next Monday. September eleventh
Speaker 1: is a date etched in the consciousness of every American today,
Speaker 1: at least this year in Southeast Ohio. It's the day
Speaker 1: before the biggest trial in the history of the state.
Speaker 1: We're on the leave of this, and these lawyers have
Speaker 1: been eating, sleeping, living this for months now, and I
Speaker 1: think we're starting to see, you know, exactly what each
Speaker 1: side is going to be presenting. James Pilcher. For me,
Speaker 1: it's a culmination of paying attention to this for the
Speaker 1: last two and a half years. I'm glad it's actually happening.
Speaker 1: There were some doubt in my mind as to whether
Speaker 1: or not it actually ever would happen. I'm really really
Speaker 1: interested to hear the opening statements from the prosecution because
Speaker 1: I think they're going to lay out their case and
Speaker 1: start talking specifically about the evidence that they have. But
Speaker 1: I think the things that we're going to look for are,
Speaker 1: how does the defense present George as a quote unquote
Speaker 1: innocent bystander on all this. One of the things we've
Speaker 1: heard is that potentially George only went along to keep
Speaker 1: Billy from killing Jake. If the evidence shows he was there,
Speaker 1: if the evidence and the wire taps, and they have
Speaker 1: reportings of him talking about this, which apparently they do,
Speaker 1: how does he get out from underneath the aggravated murder charts,
Speaker 1: even if he isn't necessarily one of the triggermen. But
Speaker 1: if this is a slam dunk for the prosecution, why
Speaker 1: is the defense going to trial? There's a strategy there
Speaker 1: that I don't think we've seen yet. I haven't seen it,
Speaker 1: at least I think the defense probably knows something that
Speaker 1: we all don't know. Do you think there's some sort
Speaker 1: of break in the case that will come out in
Speaker 1: the courtroom that no one is expecting? Yes, I do.
Speaker 1: These are experienced defense counsel They know exactly what they're doing.
Speaker 1: So I just think before this thing is over, we're
Speaker 1: going to know quite a few things about the case.
Speaker 1: That we didn't know before. I think one of the
Speaker 1: big things. And if you come to all these hearings,
Speaker 1: you see the Rodent and Gilley family survivors, we're here
Speaker 1: every single time. I think this is finally going to
Speaker 1: give them some enclosure, finally some actual justice. More on that.
Speaker 1: Next time, the defense table sits right in front of
Speaker 1: the witness box, so he's going to be looking right
Speaker 1: at his brother, and his brother's gonna be looking right
Speaker 1: at him. I don't think I've ever seen photos that
Speaker 1: graphic before. When a juror sees a human bodies and
Speaker 1: ripped shreds, there's that thing within them that was they
Speaker 1: want their pound flesh. For more information in case photos,
Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. The Piked
Speaker 1: and Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Grieves,
Speaker 1: Scott de Graw, Andrew Arnow and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing
Speaker 1: and sound designed by Jeff Ti, music by Jared Asden,
Speaker 1: audio mixing by Ken Novak. The Piked and Masker is
Speaker 1: a production of Kati Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts
Speaker 1: from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Ready to
Speaker 1: hear more, Remember you can get episode two now completely
Speaker 1: at free and a whole week early with an I
Speaker 1: Heeart True Crime Plus subscription available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Plus.
Speaker 1: You'll get a never before heard subscriber exclusive bonus episode
Speaker 1: and add free access to all previous seasons of The
Speaker 1: Pikes and Massacre as well. So open your Apple Podcasts app,
Speaker 1: search for iHeart True Crime Plus and subscribe. Today, I'm
Speaker 1: Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called The girl Friends.
Speaker 1: It's Las Vegas, it's the nineteen nineties, and it is
Speaker 1: time to find a husband. There were four Jewish doctors
Speaker 1: who were felt to be eligible bachelors. One of them
Speaker 1: was Barrenmout. On paper, he was perfect, but in react, Lady,
Speaker 1: this guy is a wakome. He shouted to the point
Speaker 1: she went unconscious. I would call him and I would say,
Speaker 1: I know you killed my sister. You can listen to
Speaker 1: The Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Freedom and I'm Rthy.
Speaker 1: We have spent the last twenty years building and working
Speaker 1: at some of the largest companies in the world. We
Speaker 1: worked with some remarkable people Rob mcalinney. When I see
Speaker 1: the people of Wrexham, I grew up exactly like them.
Speaker 1: Check Out the Art and Tried ARM Show. That is
Speaker 1: a A R D HI and s R I R
Speaker 1: A M Show. Listen to the Art Instrie Arm Show
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcast I'm will daily. For years have been on
Speaker 1: the road, playing shows and seeing America through live music.
Speaker 1: This summer, I'll hit the stage. Who Season two of
Speaker 1: Sound of Our Town ten cities twelve episodes every other Thursday,
Speaker 1: we explore the live music, venues and culture of a
Speaker 1: new American city. With each new episode, our tour continues
Speaker 1: into the kind of venues you want to get to
Speaker 1: when you landed in Detroit, Providence, Denver, or Seattle. Listen
Speaker 1: to Sound of Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.